Quoting from the November Human Rights Watch report cited:
“Shaaeb is not allowed to access his land, let alone granted the right to build a house on it and profit from renting it out, because Palestinian ID-holders are not allowed to enter settlements except as laborers bearing special permits. Guests with Palestinian IDs are not allowed to stay at the home that has been built on Shaaeb’s land or on any other settlement rental property, while Israelis and foreigners may do so freely. Indeed, Shaaeb holds US citizenship, but unlike other American citizens, he may not enter Ofra, because Israel has registered him in the Palestinian population registry that it maintains. So, Airbnb is facilitating the rental of the property on Shaaeb’s land – and more than a hundred other settlement properties – under conditions of inherent discrimination: Israelis and foreigners may pay to stay on the property, but Palestinians may not.” https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/11/20/bed-and-breakfast-stolen-land/tourist-rental-listings-west-bank-settlements
Wondering Jew, “Did Mazuz succeed in the primaries? A real journalist might have included this information”.
Look, I’m not here to prove I’m a “real journalist”. Actually, I often think of myself as a guy who came into this world of journalism as an amateur, propelled by a political-moral motivation to shed more light on Israeli policy vis-a-vis Palestinians.
I checked in advance, for my own interest and general knowledge, what the results of the Likud primaries were, and I know that Yaron Mazuz did not gain what is called a ‘realistic’ place for next elections.
But you know, journalists (real or inspiring…), they have to make certain decisions about what to put into an article, to make a point. And that means, to decide what details may be ancillary to that point. In this case, I took a decision not to include further details about Primary results, since it would be too ancillary to the point. The point was already made – he used the soldier-medic-murderer as a mascot. Period.
But you, Wondering Jew, obviously see this omission of the Primary results to be the whole point – in that you use this omission to claim that I am not a real journalist, read: the whole article is useless.
I think you, Wondering Jew, have simply missed the point. Or worse – you may be intentionally applying “whataboutry” in order to deflect from the point of the article, and leave us wondering…
Thanks for answering Mayhem, Talkback. The claim is substantiated in the article itself, where one wonders whether Mayhem actually read it. It speaks of the ‘2014 “Operation Protective Edge” (“Mighty Cliff” in Hebrew), which according to the UN killed 2,251 Palestinians, including 1,462 civilians, among them 551 children’. Then there’s also your citing of B’tselem.
You know, it’s funny – Haaretz did a fact-check on Gantz’s numbers two days ago:
“Fact-check: Did Netanyahu Challenger Benny Gantz Really Kill 1,364 ‘Terrorists’ in Gaza?
Gantz’s new election campaign video, featuring footage of Gaza’s destruction, cites official Israeli government statistics. But even the Israeli Foreign Ministry and IDF admit that there were less militants and more civilians… On the backdrop of images of destruction in Gaza accompanied by dramatic music, Gantz claimed that during Operation Protective Edge in 2014, under his command, 1,364 “terrorists” were killed.
The video claims that the figure is based on a Foreign Ministry report, but according to a Foreign Ministry report released on June 15, 2016, the number of Palestinians involved in fighting who were killed was actually 936.
According to Israeli government breakdown, the Israel Defense Forces and Foreign Ministry admit that “military activists” constituted just 44 percent of all those killed during Operation Protective Edge. The army says that of the 2,125 Palestinians killed, 936 were “terrorists” and at least 761 were civilians – of them, 369 children younger than 15 and 284 women. The identities of the remaining 428 were not categorized.
In his video, Gantz appears to have taken the number of “terrorists” and added to it all 428 unrecognized victims to have reached the total number of 1,364 “terrorists” he boasts of having killed.”
So even with those high official Israeli counts of “terrorists” (and counting children only from age 15 and down…), still, the official Israeli count still confirms my claim, that most of the killed were actually civilians.
But Gantz lumped all the rest that were not categorized into being “terrorists” – which seems to suggest that he thought Palestinians are terrorists by default.
So that’s how I substantiate it. It would appear that the deep-seated prejudice is rather with Mr. Gantz, whom Mayhem seems inclined to believe.
Jackdaw: “Jonathan Ofir knows everything there is to know about Arabs in Israel , all from his Scandanavian redoubt.”
Jackdaw appears to be asserting, that I am ignorant and cowardly.
Jackdaw, I have learned about Palestinians in, under the control of, and outside Israel. I have gone to visit occupied Palestinian territories, I have met with Palestinian human rights organizations, I have gone to towns who have had resistance campaigns, spoken with resistance leaders. Yes, I have passed by those big Israeli signs warning me of entry into area A at my own peril…
Most Israelis don’t even bother, you see. You can be an Israeli citizen living in some West Bank redoubt, drive on a segregated highway and not know a thing about those ‘Arabs’ you dispossess – it’s totally possible. You can drive by that Apartheid wall and not know that there’s anything behind it.
And now my place of residence is being spoken of, as if it disqualifies me from credibility. You know, its amazing how Israeli apologists welcome opinion and support, as stupid as it may be, from abroad. When it’s support like StandWithUs and Roseanne Barr and Shmuley Boteach and Elie Wiesel demonizing Palestinians and their supporters, then it’s all good – because “they are our friends”. But when it’s critical like me, it’s just another self-hater from a Scandinavian redoubt.
wdr: “Benny Morris is in Fantasy Land if he thinks that the Israelis, during the War of Independence of 1948-9, had the slightest possibility of taking control of the West Bank, much less forcing the inhabitants to leave. The Israelis did not have the military capability of taking the Old City of Jerusalem- presumably their Number One goal- in 1948-9, and did not gain it until 1967. The US and the other major powers would have stopped any Israeli incursion way past the boundaries of the Jewish state as set out by the UN in the Partition Plan.”
The Israeli forces did, in fact, take over large parts of the West Bank. As you may know, the 56% of historical Palestine was far from the 78% that Israel eventually took control of by 1949. Ilan Pappe notes the causes for this ‘hesitation’ in terms of the West Bank – there was a collusion between the Zionists (Golda Meir), and the Jordanians (Abdullah), that meant that Jordan would in principle stay out of the war, if the Zionists would stay out of the West Bank (see Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine).
Anyway, Israel, which at first promised USA explicitly to stick to the UN 1947 ‘Partition Plan’ lines on the eve of the state Declaration, did not abide by it, and wasn’t planning to. It became a question of balance – how to expand further without losing the war altogether.
Regarding ‘forcing the inhabitants to leave’, let it be noted, that the mass and violent ethnic cleansing of Lydda and Ramleh, directed by Ben-Gurion and signed by Rabin, was taking place IN THE WEST BANK. That area was not meant to be part of the ‘Jewish State’ by those 1947 suggested lines.
Thanks Henry Norr,
I appreciate that, and agree largely with Levy – yet there is a relativity here. We could also discuss that Levy places Meretz in the ‘real left’. And Meretz explicitly endorses Zionism. It explicitly says that Israel is a “state of the Jewish people”. So we could now discuss, how Zionism is essentially always right-wing in that it essentially advocates ethnic cleansing and Apartheid in one way or another – because you can’t engineer a racial state like that otherwise. But I’m relating to the Israeli relativity, yes. And I think there’s a point here, in this context, to demonstrate that this is not coming from the (relative) right, but from the (relative) left of the political paradigm – or at least not from it’s furthest right, if you will…
“How is it that Edward Said had the honesty to worry about the fate of Israeli Jews after the establishment of Arab majority rule in Palestine, but Jonathan Ofir does not share this degree of honesty[?]”
Well now, let’s see. Presumably, the nerve of your question is, why does Said, who was Palestinian, have the ‘honesty’ to worry about that, whereas Ofir, the Jewish Israeli, does not. Presumably so, because without that, it’s like asking “why did Beethoven write the 5th, whereas Jonathan Ofir, also a composer, did not?” – the obvious answer would just be, I’m not that good, or in the comparison with Said, that I’m ‘not as prolific or astute a thinker’ as Johneill suggests below as an option.
But let’s not stop here. Let’s assume you did the Palestinian-Israeli comparison, and let’s go with that. So let’s pretend that you, Wondering Jew, ask me, Jonathan Ofir, the Jewish Israeli, a question parallel to that which Said was asked. How would that sound?
“Q: Knowing the region and given the history of the conflict, do you think such Palestinian minority [in a Jewish-majority state in what is now Israel/the Palestinian territories] would be treated fairly?”
And the answer to that would be, obviously not – and it’s not hypothetical, but rather an observation – that this ‘minority’ would first be MADE a minority in the territory Israel first controlled (1948-1967) by ethnic cleansing. It would also be made politically irrelevant by Apartheid, and then Israel would also take in a larger ‘minority’ and control it by Apartheid as well as incremental genocide.
So my answer would be, this ‘Jewish State’ is just not a moral option. It has proven itself beyond reasonable doubt to be incapable of treating the Palestinian ‘minority’ fairly.
Then you can ask me the second question, that which was asked of Said. If you did, I would answer you now: It should clearly be worrying, that those who have oppressed a people for so may decades, would come to relinquish their oppressive control over these people, relinquish their Apartheid, and live as equals, since this oppressed people may possibly seek some revenge, given the history of oppression. But this must be done, and there are ways to come at this to bring restorative justice. It has been done in South Africa, where the whites were a much smaller minority of about 10%. It needs a process, but it can be done.