Is Snowden for real, or just a farce ?
M’Weiss readers really should check out the following video before they dismiss it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy1hP6F5i98
…did Snowden tell us anything new? For all his posturing about ‘spilling the beans’ giving us the details about the US secrets that are going to change the whole game, he STILL hasn’t told us anything WE DIDN’T ALREADY KNOW.
I am still waiting for him to tell us what he found out from all his diligent spying.
All he tells us is that the NSA, American power, google et al are spying on us, with the assistance of the UK…
Well, no sh*t Sherlock…
Who’d a thunk it…
No — I will believe Snowden when he actually tells us something.
Snowden has told us NOTHING we didn’t already know. Even in mainstream society, people have known for a long time we are all being spied on : everyone I meet, everyone I work with,from the admin to the mothers and housewives, to the workaday golf-playing squares and drones, even those with absolutely no interest in politics whatsoever — they have all been aware of the US/UK spying strategies.
So — can anyone on M’Weiss tell me ANYTHING new that Snowden has told us?
He’s not for real. Putin know it, which is why he distanced himself from him as soon as possible. The Chinese know it too, and were glad to be rid of him. The South American states initially showed an interest, but that has lessened as the penny has dropped.
For all Snowden’s posturing and publicising, he has told us NOTHING, ZILCH, ZERO.
JMartin writes above, “While we’re discussing the propaganda behind these rocket attacks why don’t we discuss the possibility that these Gaza rockets are themselves pure propaganda. Why don’t we talk about the possibility that at least some of these Gaza rockets are Israeli false flags intended to give Israel the provocation/excuse they need to conduct their attacks on Gaza.”
Yes, I agree — I have thought the same myself — how many are really rocket attacks from Hamas, and how many are false flags from Israelis hidden among the Palestinian population? After all, planting Jewish agents in Palestinian territories would be so easy — loads of Israelis are Arab Jews, and have the same apearance as the Christian and Muslim Palestinians, and loads of Arab Jews ( Mizrahim) speak fluent Arabic too. It would be so easy to do.
Just think for a moment — if you knew that smashing a huge hornets nest would bring very little benefit to you, but would certainly bring massive harm upon you and all those you loved dearly — would you be mad and stupid enough to do it? In the exact same way, if you were a Palestinian, and you knew that sending a home made rocket to Israel , may possibly kill or injure a handful of Israelis — but would bring untold numbers of catastrophic casualties on your own people — would you just go ahead and do it?
Think about it — it just does not make sense.
I agree with JMartin — I’d wager lots of these Hamas rockets are Israeli false flags.
JMartin writes above, “While we’re discussing the propaganda behind these rocket attacks why don’t we discuss the possibility that these Gaza rockets are themselves pure propaganda. Why don’t we talk about the possibility that at least some of these Gaza rockets are Israeli false flags intended to give Israel the provocation/excuse they need to conduct their attacks on Gaza.”
Yes, I agree — I have thought the same myself — how many are really rocket attacks from Hamas, and how many are false flags from Israelis hidden among the Palestinian population? After all, planting Jewish agents in Palestinian territories would be so easy — loads of Israelis are Arab Jews, and have the same apearance as the Christian and Muslim Palestinians, and loads of Arab Jews ( Mizrahim) speak fluent Arabic too. It would be so easy to do.
Just think for a moment — if you knew that smashing a huge hornets nest would bring very little benefit to you, but would certainly bring massive harm upon you and all those you loved dearly — would you be mad and stupid enough to do it? In the exact same way, if you were a Palestinian, and you knew that sending a home made rocket to Israel , may possibly kill or injure a handful of Israelis — but would bring untold numbers of catastrophic casualties on your own people — would you just go ahead and do it?
Think about it — it just does not make sense.
I agree with JMartin — I’d wager lots of these Hamas rockets are Israeli false flags.
To add, I will say that Israel is NOT the land of your forefathers — Jews are not a race , Jews are not a nation.Your forefathers were probably from Krakow or Kiev, not Palestine. Shlomo Sand’s research proves what we all knew anyway — that Jews are not a race group.
Not only that, Israel was planned and settled by EUROPEAN Zionists,from Germany, Austria, and Poland, all of whom were resolutely secular, with no interest at all in the Jewish religion anyway.
Jews are — just like Muslims, Catholics and Buddhists — a religious group and sometimes, they are an identity grouping, but they are obviously not a nation or race. Compare a Jew from Ethiopia or Yemen, with their coal black, almost purple black skin, and African and Arab features and hair, and a Jew from Poland or Lithuania, with their fine hair, fair skin, blonde or even ginger hair and European facial features — don’t tell me they all have the same ancestors and forefathers in Israel.
Saying as you do, that all Jews are orginally from Israel and implying that is the land of all your forefathers, is exactly as false, absurd and inaccurate as saying all Muslims all over the world, from China, Indonesia and Turkey, are originally all from Saudi becuase that is the birthplace of Islam, or, it is as false as saying all Buddhists are from India, or,for that matter, as false as saying all Christians are from Nazareth becuase that was Jesus’ origin.
Jews are a people of disparate origin and ‘race’ — just like Muslims and Buddhists — and all Jews do not go back ethnically to ancient Israel.
In fact, Shlomo Sand’s research shows that it is highly likely that hundred of years ago, many of the ancient Jews and Israelites in the land we now know as Israel, converted to Christianity, and then, converted to Islam.
And you know what that means, don’t you — it means that it is far more likely that the present day Christian and Muslim Palestinians of Gaza and Nablus and Jenin are far, far more likely to be descended from the real ancient Jews of the area, than are the present day European Jewish settlers from Brooklyn and Lithuania.
That is the truth that you can’t handle.
Yawn, what a long list of ‘what-a-bout-ery’ — some of what you have written about other religions, other conflicts may well be partly true — but in no way does that excuse a lot of Polish, Ukranian, Latvia, Lithuanian, Russian and Austrian Jews, with no connection whatsoever to the land of Palestine ( besides in their imagination/religious narratives) turning up in 1948, and expelling 750,000 of the local people from their land, people who had lived there for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Now THAT is what we are talking about — very simple. You can talk all you want about other countries, and and other conflicts — none of that makes what European Jews did in 1948 ok. None of what you wrote can possibly justify a Jew from Krakow or Kiev, or Addis Ababa or Benghazi or Moscow or Paris, taking land away from the local peoples who have been there for countless generations.
Now you process that Lorna, because that is the truth that you and your European settler friends from Krakow and Brooklyn and Moscow can’t handle.
If you prefer, or if it makes you feel better, you can go on and on and on about ‘honour killings’ in some small Muslim community in the North of England, or you can go on and on about one African tribe killing another — but it does not, for one single second, in some kind of evil check and balance game,make what the European Jews did in Palestine ok.
Mayhem, Israel does a great enough job at delegitimising and undermining itself, and making itself look awful — it doesn’t need anyone outside to make it look so.
American, agreed with that list, but couldn’t most of those be applied to most governments from ‘developed’ countries ?
For sure, UK matches most of ’em.
And in the face of such creeping disempowerment, ( A ) most of the UK population are lulled to sleep, so they would be under the illusion — like the Americans — that they are shining examples of total freedom and peacful democracy, or,
( B) other UK citizens — like Americans — are so drunk on cheap alcohol and dope that they are blissfully ( self ) excluded from any debate on the issues that matter anyway.
Then,( C) there are the citizens who do know what is going on, but are powerless to do anything about their gradual disempowerment. And the whole damn system is so chamelion like, and elastic, that it can withstand blows to its exterior image anyway, as witnessed by the completely easy going smug self stasified response of Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell, when openly confronted and faced with their crimes by protestors attempting citizens arrest etc. In fact, they just turn such acts to their own advantage, saying it is ‘proof’ of how ‘open and free’ our ‘democracy’ truly is.The same can be seen in the utter contempt that Condie Rice showed for Code Pink’s impressive demos against her.
Then there are ( D ) the random acts of frustrated, directionless anger, such as the burning and looting riots in London last year — the system simply does not care– it is rich enough to stand the losses to property, and the faceless bureaucrats are cold hearted enough not to care one bit if ‘the plebian class’ destroy their own neighbourhoods and mug and rob from each other.
The ruling class are above it all and impervious to it.
Hold tight for the new reversion to the kinds of ‘serf/master’ relations we last had with the state and the powers in the 1800s and early 1900s — it is going to be a rough ride.
Hold tight.
Phil writes ; “The next day in Brooklyn, I asked an anti-Zionist friend whether it is possible to rebrand Israel as a fascist country. He considered the idea and nodded.”
Ze’ev Sternhell, leading scholar on the roots and evolution of fascism, has been over and over the debate,many times, most recently with Uri Avnery, and I quote, “(T)he positions of Professor Ze’ev Sternhell indeed stand out sharply against the darkness of the sky. He warns against Israeli fascism. This week, Israeli fascists laid a pipe-bomb at the entrance of his apartment and he was lightly injured.The choice of victim seems surprising at first. But the perpetrators knew what they were doing.”
Read here — http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1222552857/
American, well said there, and clearly, that is why American neo realists are so relevant to the debate here — because American neo realists know very well that idealists have to be part of the debate if we are to achieve anything at all — that is obviously why men like Mearsheimer and Walt constantly pay constant, respectful attention to what men like Finkelstein,Israel Shahak, Mondoweiss, and other idealist sources have to say.
The cold hearted bastards in power in USA/Germany/France/Israel/Russia and the puppet Gulf states will lead us to hell if they are allowed to — idealists and intelligent neo realists are the voice of sanity.