eljay December 25, 2018, 8:52 pm
Jewish citizens of homelands around the world were foreign to geographic Palestine. They weren’t ancient Israelites, they were not from geographic Palestine, they could not possibly “return” to it.
Jewish migration to the ancestral, national homeland of the Jews in Eres Yisra'el predates by centuries the period when Jews were initially able to acquire citizenship in Diaspora lands in the 19th century (rights that were later revoked in many countries in the first half of the 20th century and then only given again after the end of WW2). Jews have consistently left these foreign places over the centuries to live where their ancestors originated from in Eres Yisra'el, before they were ever granted citizenship rights in those foreign locales that you think were their "homelands". By definition, a Jew who lives in in Eres Yisra'el cannot be foreign to that country, especially now that there is a Jewish nation-state there known in Hebrew, the national and ancestral language of the Jewish People, as Medinat Yisra'el.
The fact remains that the identity of Jewish is religion-based – it can only be acquired by:
– undergoing a religious conversion to Judaism; or
– being descended from someone who underwent a religious conversion to Judaism.
Incorrect. Except for the small minority of recent converts who have undergone a religious conversion to Judaism, the vast majority of people who identify as Jews are in fact descended from the Hebrews and Israelites of antiquity who never underwent any formal conversion to "Judaism," as "conversions" to what we now identify as "Judaism" only started to become standardized in the Talmudic Era; most Jews of that period (from whom today's Jews trace their descent) had been born into the Jewish People and followed (or didn't follow) any number of sects, cults and practices before anything remotely resembling what we consider to be "Judaism" today ever cohered. They were Hebrews/Israelites/Jews simply because (1) they -- or their ancestors -- were of Hebrew/Israelite/Jewish descent and (2) they or their ancestors lived in the Land of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah. Certainly, in antiquity, and in the present, both in the Land of Israel and in the Diaspora, originally non-Jewish people have entered into the Jewish fold through conversion to what we now call "Judaism" and Jews alive today certainly have some descent from those people as well, but that doesn't counter the fact that the vast majority of self-identifying Jews alive do in fact trace their descent to the Israelites of antiquity who lived, not surprisingly , in the Land of Israel. Jewish national identity is derived from the fact that Jews trace their ancestry to a specific people, who spoke a specific language and lived in a specific place, even if some of the ancestry of present day Jewish populations is in part also traceable to foreign non-Jews who at some point in the past assimilated into Jewish national culture through adoption of the religious beliefs of what is now termed "Judaism" and subsequently were absorbed into Jewish communties.
Merry Christmas, Mike. :-)
You should extend your holiday greetings in this season towards my fellow citizens of Israel, the Jewish nation-state, who follow the Jesuscult, as loyal, patriotic citizens who belong to a national ethnic minority group but who nonetheless have equal civic and political rights as their Jewish fellow citizens of Israel who belong to the majority national and ethnic group. If any of them happen to read this, I wish to convey your heartfelt holiday message to those Jesuscult holiday-observant soldiers who defend Israel in the IDF.
Jonathan Ofir November 12, 2018, 2:05 am
You name Jerusalem twice as the capital of Israel – even when you refer to WWI events, snd you put Jerusalem in capitals.
It is appropriate to put Jerusalem in capital letters to remind people that it is de jure and de facto the capital city of the State of Israel.
Since I wrote very clearly in English, my second language after Hebrew but nevertheless a language that I have native fluency in (I was raised primarily in the USA, but in a Hebrew-speaking home), that "there were decisive WW1 battles fought in the territory that i is now part of the sovereign state of Israel, namely Be’ersheva, Megiddo, Haifa (and of course, in and around the Israeli capital, JERUSALEM!)" a person of reasonable intelligence and who possesses basic reading comprehension skills should not infer that I suggested that Be'ersheva, Megiddo, Haifa or Israel's capital JERUSALEM, was part of the sovereign state of Israel during the period of WW1, during which period these areas were Ottoman-ruled and then British military-occupied.
This appears to be a rather desperate attempt to sugest that Jerusalem is, and always was, Israel’s capital.
You may nonetheless be aware that Jerusalem was not Israel’s capital when it declared statehood (and it would be strange if it was, since Israel used the UN Partition Plan of 1947 to claim legitimacy in its Declaration, where in the Partition Plan Jerusalem was not part of the Jewish State)
The Provisional Government (which by its very nature was "provisional" -- i.e., zmanit made no legal declaration of what Israel’s capital was at the time of the Declaration of Independence was promulgated in the Tel Aviv Art Museum on 5 Iyyar, 5708 (May 15, 1948) but Jerusalem became the Modern State of Israel's capital official capital by declaration of the Knesset on the 22nd of Kislev 5710 (December 13, 1949) , over a year after the Arabs had rejected UNGA Resolution 181, of November 29, 1947, which provided for Jerusalem to be a a corpus separatum, after the eastern half was annexed by Jordan and after the entirety of the Jewish population of the eastern half of Jerusalem was expelled and ethnically cleansed, including all of my father's relatives who had lived in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City for generations, after it became clear that the November 29, 1947 Partition Plan was dead, null and void, and after it had been rejected by the other side, there was no reason not to declare Jerusalem to be the capital of the State of Israel. And even though the declaration of Jerusalem as Israel's capital was made about a year and a half after the Declaration of Independence of Israel, Israel has never had any other capital but Jerusalem.
<Israel was eventually accepted to the UN on the understanding that it would follow through with relevant resolutions such as 194, which called for a withdrawal from Jerusalem and establishment of international auspices as intended in Partition Plan, as well as return of Palestinian refugees.
Israel never made any binding commitment to implement any of the recommendations of Resolution 194 when it was accepted to the UN. Opponents of Israel's admission to the UN that it had to be conditional, but this never the case. And it's not as if the UN has any legal or moral validity in the present anyway.
Now, USA under Trump, has made a unilateral move, in contravention of international law, to recognize Jerusalem formally as Israel’s capital and move the embassy there
There is no "international law" that the current administration has violates, which dictates that it is proscribed from implementing past Congressional resolutions recognizing a sovereign state's declaration of its capital city, and Israel committed no unlawful act by establishing its capital in Jerusalem.
you seem to be inculcating us with a Zionist righteousness about that ‘eternal capital’ and ‘Eres Israel’ which is devoid of that contention mentioned above
I never made mention of any "eternal capital," as I don't believe anything is "eternal". Our entire species may become extinct due to catastrophic climate change or our planet's collision with a near earth object in a century's time, after all. But major natural disasters or the rise of the robots destroying humanity notwithstanding, or on the optimistic side, the demise of all nation-states and national/ethnic identities, including the end of the very recently created Palestinian Arab national identity and the unification of all humankind into one global "nation", we can expect that Medinat Yisra'el will continue to exist as a Jewish state in Eres Yisrae'l with Jerusalem as its capital for centuries and centuries to come.
By the way, its ERETZ in Hebrew for land, not Eres.
Incorrect. I prefer to use a "ṣ" for "ṣade", as that is more accurate. However, I am lazy about finding the proper Unicode symbol, so I prefer the "s" to "tz".
Eres actually means ‘poison’ in Hebrew
The correct word in English for ארס is "venom".
Posion is "ra'al".
it would seem you may be drawing your references from Yiddish, which tends to twist some of the hebrew letters (such as the Tzadik into an S)
Adaraba, you've got it bassackwards. It's the influence of Yiddish-Ashkenazi and modern Israeli pronunciation that renders צ/ץ with "tz" or "ts" when it comes to transliteration. The traditional Halabi/Shami and Sefaradi pronunciation of my paternal ancestors uses something more similar to Arabic ص , usually represented by ṣ, with the diacritic, although when I speak Hebrew I speak with the Ashkenazi "tz". But I like to preserve the distinction when writing, although I'm kinda lazy to bother looking for the ṣ symbol most of the time, so I just write "s".
But I suppose you knew that already, I mean you couldn’t possibly be stupid as you are...
Well, you have revealed yourself to be ignorant of basic Hebrew pronunciations. Hopefully, you've become slightly less ignorant and stupid. You're welcome!
eljay December 24, 2018, 7:21 pm
citizens of homelands all over the world – who have chosen to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish are not “ancient Israelites” “returning” to an “ancient homeland”
Of course, the Jews who returned to their ancestral and historical homeland of Eres Yisra'el, which has never been devoid of a Jewish population for the past millennia and to which Jews have always migrated back to and repopulated long before they were able to reestablish Jewish self-rule and national sovereignty in the 20th century, are not not "ancient Israelites". Obviously, that is for the simple reason that the " ancient Israelites" died in ancient times. Today's Jews are, however, by and large (with the exception of the very few people who have recently converted) literally the lineal descendants of ancient Israelite populations who lived, not surprisingly, in the Land of Israel. Moreover, it wasn't until modern times that Jews were ever on an equal citizenship basis with any of their non-Jewish neighbors in the Diaspora countries that you confuse with "homelands all over the world" (and that right has also been revoked in modern times). Today most Jews in Diaspora countries where they do enjoy broad citizenship rights and freedom (unlike many of their ancestors who were denied equal rights while living in Diaspora lands, whether in the Arab world or in Europe ) and the Jews who live in free societies, e.g., Canada, have the legal as well as moral right to leave those societies and migrate back to their actual ancestral and national homeland, their only one, the one on the shores of the Mediterranean that has its capital in Jerusalem, where they can live and experience their national culture without any form of a "religion-based identity" if they so choose, because being Jewish has fuck all to do with believing in or following any sort of "religion."
RoHa November 11, 2018, 12:46 am
“On August 24, 1929, racist Arabs of Hebron attacked their Jewish neighbors. ”
Racism, was it?
Hordes of foreigners pour into the country.
They make no attempt to assimilate.
Prof Roha now on record supporting massacres of people who "make no attempt to assimilate." But for the edification of the ignorant and uninformed who might read RoHa's disgusting comment and come away with the impression that the Jews are an alien implant in an Arab country, Hebron had a constant Jewish presence for centuries, long before the modern political Zionist movement started. (It's always important to underline "modern political Zionist" because the Zionist idea is simply baked in and embedded into Jewish culture and vice versa, but modern political Zionism refers specifically to the very successful movement to re-establish Jewish independence in the historical Jewish homeland in a modern state framework. My ancestors on my paternal grandmother's side who settled in Galilee in Safad in the 16th century CE after the Expulsion from Spain, and those on my paternal grandfather's side who moved from Damascus in the late 19th century were most certainly Zionist, although not in the modern, political sense.) Additionally, few of the Jewish victims of the Arab massacre in Hebron were modern, political Zionists, most were rabbinical students and their families. Many of the victims were foreign-born, but many of them were also from families that had lived in Hebron for many generations, including Mizrahi and Sefaradi Jews as well as Ashkenazi Jews that had resided for in the city for generations (and some were a mix of both, like the Slonim-Dueck family).
My great uncle Nissim was also wounded (he survived and lived into his 90s, fortunately, despie having his face and neck slashed) by a hate-inflamed Arab terrorist during the Jerusalem riots of 1929, which happened concurrently with the Hebron Massacre.
Because he was raised speaking Arabic (as well as Ladino and Hebrew) and was a Palestinian Mandate citizen sicne the time the British started issuing Mandate citizenship , and from a family that had resided in the Holy land for many generations quite a few ignorant commenters on this blog will incorrectly identify him as a so-called "Arab Jew". While he was a native Arabic-speakingJew from EreS Yisra'el, he was never an Arab, but one can't make the claim that he was "unassimillated" into Arab culture (as if that excuses murdering people who didn't speak Arabic). But the murderous fanatic who tried to kill my father's uncle didn't care that he spoke Arabic with native fluency, that he and his parents and grandparents and great grandparents, etc. were born in the country, the only thing that mattered was that my Uncle Nissim was a Jew. Fortunately he survived the attack, and lived to fight for Israeli Independence two decades later, as an EtSel fighter (most of the Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews fought in EtSel rather than Hagana or PalMaHH) and later in the nascent IDF.
Mooser November 11, 2018, 4:31 pm
“My American-born and US citizen daughter is doing very well” “Mikhael”
Wow, I bet you were surprised when you came to the US and found her there. No doubt you were thrilled and amazed at the benefits dual-citizenship can bring.
You're confused again. I have been involved in my US-born daughter's life ever since she was born and my ex-wife and I have always cooperated in jointly rearing her and providing emotional and financial support. She is not an automatic dual citizen of Israel and the USA, as Israeli citizenship only transmits automatically to the first generation of children born to Israeli citizens outside of Israel. Per Israeli law., as an Israeli citizen who was born outside of Israel, alas, I do not transfer my Israeli citizenship automatically to her. She is, however, entitled to apply for Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return, as the child and grandchild of a Jew. (her mother is not Jewish.) My ex-wife and I are very proud of our daughter's accomplishments, which are the product of loving parents and her own drive. Thank you for your best wishes.
Marnie November 11, 2018, 7:10 am Speaking of weird, while watching the ceremony at the Champs Elysees all of the dignitaries who arrived to show their respects marking the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1, ...As there was no ‘israel’ in 1918, what could he be doing there and what plans might he have to make this about him
Heads of state of many other countries which weren't yet independent at the time, but which were affected in one way or the other by the Great War, either because battles took place on what is now their territory or people from those countries participated in the war in the armies of the Central Powers or the Allies were also present, for example, Muhamadu Buhari, of Nigeria, and Petro Poroshenko of Ukraine.
This is appropriate because many soldiers from what is now Nigeria served in the British army and many soldiers from what is now Ukraine served in the Russian Army and battles were fought on Ukrainian territory. Likewise, it was correct and appropriate for Netanyahu to attend as there were decisive WW1 battles fought in the territory that is now part of the sovereign state of Israel, namely Be'ersheva, Megiddo, Haifa (and of course, in and around the Israeli capital, JERUSALEM!), and many Jewish soldiers (including relatives of my father) who lived in the formerly Ottoman-controlled territories that would become part of the British Palestine Mandate and later the State of Israel served in both the Ottoman armies as well as the British armed forces.
My father's uncle, a native Jerusalemite Jew whose family lived in the Old City for many generations , was drafted into the Ottoman forces and served in Anatolia and the Balkans. His great great grandchildren still live in Jerusalem, Israel's capital, and were no doubt pleased to see their prime minister representing them at the ceremony marking the end of WW1. It's been my pleasure to make you a little better informed, and hopefully, a little less stupid. You're welcome!