Israel’s campaign against Palestinian nonviolent grassroots activists is continuing. The latest leader to be arrested is Jamal Juma’. Juma’ has been the coordinator of the Palestinian Grassroots Anti-Apartheid Wall Campaign since 2002. His arrests follows those of Mohammad Othman, who had been promoting BDS in Europe, and Abdallah Abu Rahmah a leader of the weekly nonviolent protests against the wall in Bil’in.
The Stop the Wall campaign describes his arrest this way:
Israeli security first summoned Juma’ for interrogation at midnight of December 15. Hours later, they brought him back to his home. Juma’ was handcuffed while soldiers searched his house for two hours as his wife and three young children looked on helplessly. The parting words of the soldiers were directed at his wife: she would only see her husband again through a prisoner exchange. Since then, Juma’ has been detained, and banned from speaking to a lawyer or his family, with no explanation for his arrest.
The campaign is also clear to point out that this is part of a concerted campaign which aims to "weaken Palestinian civil society and its influence on political decision making at national and international level."
Ma’an News is reporting that Juma’ has a court date set for Monday.
I just want to know this.
Would someone who identifies as a liberal Zionist support the actions of these non-violent protesters? If not why not?
We already got his answer and he doesn’t, because since the IDF shoots live rounds at the non-violent protests, and Israeli agent provocateurs insinuate themselves into the protests, they are no longer non-violent protests and are therefore morally objectionable.
As a liberal Zionist I would support the actions of these non violent protesters.
(But I would warn that after these non violent protesters achieve their ends, it will be the violent Hamas that will end up with the power.)
WJ: (But I would warn that after these non violent protesters achieve their ends, it will be the violent Hamas that will end up with the power.)
And this would be a natural phenomenon, or the result of some inherent flaw in the “Palestinian character”? Or might it also have something to do with the fact that Israel helped to create Hamas as a counterbalance to the PLO, subsequently deciding to prefer Arafat (setting up an intentionally corrupt regime, continuing to pursue settlement policies, and worsening the living conditions of ordinary Palestinians) – all the while persecuting and quashing any and every attempt at non-violent resistance?
Shmuel: This would be a natural human phenomenon, where the ones with the guns are the ones who ultimately seize the power, rather than the nonviolent ones who shake the power out of the hands of the previous despots. (As in the liberal socialism that replaced the Czar only to yield to the guns of the communists. As in the revolution that kicked out the Shah, only to yield to the brutality of Khomeinism.)
Wow, I fell for the diversion tactic. A liberal would oppose the jailing of non-violent activists no matter what. Guesses about how the power struggle may or may not end cannot possibly justify the persecution of non-violent activists and their families, denying them even due process, charges, access to legal cousel, contact with family, etc. Unless of course one is not actually a liberal.
I support these nonviolent protesters. I merely warn what is likely to happen in the end.
Human beings are sometimes violent and sometimes not. Change is sometimes violent and sometimes not. Only one thing is certain, and that is where there is violent oppression and all avenues for non-violent change are crushed, counter-violence will ensue.
Is there not an element of self-fulfilling prophecy in Israel’s (historical) actions against all forms of non-violent protest by Palestinians?
WJ: I support these nonviolent protesters. I merely warn what is likely to happen in the end.
Why do you feel the need to add that caveat? What bearing does it have on the treatment of non-violent protesters? Or is it an attempt to mitigate Israeli brutality toward the non-violent, by reminding us that there are also Palestinians who engage in violent struggle?
And whats the problem with Hamas taking over?
After all its Hamas that is giving you Liberal Zionists the best deal possible. Hamas still subscribes to the 2 state solution and is openly calling for the 2 state solution based on the 1967 borders. Just think about that for a second… Hamas, the most extreme Palestinian group is willing to accept a final status solution with Israel that involves the Palestinians receiving less than 20% of what is their historic homeland. They are willing to let European colonizers keep the other 80%. How much better can it get for you nutters???
Remember Hamas endorsed the Arab Peace Proposal in 2002 (2007 and again in 2009), have made several statements saying they accept the 67 borders, and even Jimmy Carter got a guarantee from Khaled Meshal himself saying that Hamas would settle with the 67 borders as the basis for a 2 state solution.
If I was a “Liberal Zionist” and still cared about creating a “Jewish State” I would be negotiating with Hamas right now.
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, we all know that Israel isint interested in any peace with the Palestinians that would give them any sort of viable state, they also aren’t interested in giving the Palestinians equal rights in the current Apartheid one state they got going right now. So what do you guys want? Seriously? Do you ever wonder why some of the people that comment here make Nazi analogies with Israeli policy? Think about it… Zionists don’t want to give the Palestinians their own state, nor do they want to give Palestinians citizenship or human rights… so wtf do the Zionists want to do with the Palestinians? It doesn’t take a rocket scientists to figure out that all Israeli actions vis a vis the Palestinians are aimed at lowering their numbers demographically, which incidentally sounds very Nazi like.
Proponents of Zionism need to do some introspection and realize who actually hold the cards in the I/P conflict. Because it ain’t the guys living under a brutal military occupation, its the guys with the tanks that call the shots and have the power to end this conflict right now.
Hamas abstained from the Arab League proposal, not endorsed it.
Its unclear what Hamas wants. Actually, it is clear, they want there to be no Israel long-term.
If I were the Prime Minister of Israel I would have to make a decision regarding the treatment of nonviolent protesters and my on-the-other-hand thoughts would have to be weighed and I’d have to decide whether the on-the-other-hand would be enough to change my decision.
As a mere commenter on Phil Weiss’s blog, I allow myself the luxury of making a decision: I would not treat the protesters this way and also the luxury of the proviso: If history is any indicator and the West bank gains its freedom, it will be Hamas and not the nonviolent protesters who will be the rulers of the newly freed Palestine.
James Bradley – What is this less than 20%? The West Bank and Gaza equals 22%, the last I heard. (I never did the math myself.) And what’s with the namecalling?
If I were Prime Minister I would talk to Hamas. But the premise that opposing talking with Hamas is tantamount to favoring expelling the Palestinians is false. Hamas is a truly scary organization.
WJ,
Is it so hard for a self-proclaimed liberal to unequivocally support non-violent protest? Non-violent protest against oppression is, by its very nature, threatening to the oppressor, and the oldest excuse in the book for imprisoning and violating the basic human rights of such protesters is that not doing so could lead to greater violence. That is how repressive regimes have dealt with and excused their violence against labour movements, anti-colonial struggles and political dissent of all kinds – and that is how Israel deals with and excuses its violence against Palestinian protesters. For a liberal (whether PM or blog-commenter), there should be no dilemma here.
I support the non violent protesters. When Hamas takes power it will not be due to my support for the nonviolent protesters.
WJ: I support the non violent protesters.
But if you actually had to make a decision (“If I were the Prime Minister of Israel … I’d have to decide whether the on-the-other-hand would be enough to change my decision”), you might come to a different conclusion – hence the decisions taken by the current Israeli PM (and all of his predecessors) on the matter might be justified.
Excuse me for pressing this point, but this does not strike me as liberal support for non-violent protest, but as non-liberal Zionist apology for its repression.
non-liberal Zionist apology for its repression
Precisely.
Hamas has power now. It was democratically voted.
Yeah, MRW — apparently, liberal Zionists reject violently the notion of democracy. Gee, I’m shocked.
No, they did not abstain from the proposal Witty, they accepted it… THREE times now.
It is VERY clear what Hamas wants, and that is the TWO state solution based on the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as their capital.
Which is incidentally in line with the international consensus.
I’m curious- why hasn’t Hamas agreed to the reconciliation agreement with Fatah? From the Israeli point of view it seems that Hamas likes controlling Gaza without Fatah interference and is not overly anxious to have elections at this time.
Time to change the subject, huh, WJ? How come you make it sound like it was Hamas who torpedoed the agreement? Who won the elections last time? Conversely, which side took US money and arms and planned a coup? Which side excluded the other from the PA? Which side has a President who’s been running in excess of his term for almost a year now?
Also: You really think Fatah has a snowball’s chance in hell after Israel bulldozed over them — literally and figuratively — and Abbas cried uncle when Obama twisted his arm, and backpedaled on putting the Goldstone Report before the UN and the ICC?
If only more people cared.
it was way too difficult to register on this blog.
There seems to be a time lag.
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More Fascism from our democratic ally in the mid-east. This is how they celebrate the new year and the 1 year anniversary of Gaza. Their negativity is a vacuum vortex, and I hope our government leaders stay out of the Israeli cesspool of politics.
Maybe Alan Grayson can answer how this is Israeli-styled Justice when he sits down for a c-span interview oneday?
I wonder what Christian Zionists think about the idea of banning Christmas in Jerusalem? Does that fit in with their convenient political fascist alliance?
Where’s Witty with his typical rambling about there being no Palestinian Ghandi?
He’s been too busy spouting anti-Hamas hate speech. Give him time.
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