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“How do I explain to my daughter ..”
Keep lying. That’s how you learned
|| yonah fredman: There are basic problems involved in the mere establishment of israel particularly given the expulsion that accompanied Israel’s birth and the “existential necessity” involved in keeping out the heirs of those expelled. … ||
That sounds so much more poetic than terrorism, ethnic cleansing and permanent refugee status in the name of religion-based supremacism.
“catalan” I get it. You are warning us that Israel will punish the Palestinians if BDS works.
So, what would be different? Want to tell us what it is Israel can do or will do to the Palestinians if Israel is upset about BDS that Israel is not doing now?
Remember, Israel is a Jewish State. So there are a lot of things Israel can’t possibly do, if those things are against Judaism. Right?
“and prepared with the narrative and the right of Jewish self-determination in their own land.”
Those students must be prepared to educate their teachers.
For that they go to college!
a word from Jamie Stern-Weiner
DID ISRAEL THWART ANOTHER PALESTINIAN “PEACE OFFENSIVE”?
“At this point, the script writes itself: Hamas threatens to moderate its position by amending its Charter, so Israel assassinates a senior Hamas militant.
Whenever a credible Palestinian force threatens by political moderation to undermine Israel’s pretexts for diplomatic rejectionism—by offering/adhering to a ceasefire; signalling acceptance of the international consensus framework for resolving the conflict; or participating in an internationally-acceptable national unity government—Israel resorts to violence in order to destroy it, or at least provoke it into abandoning its pragmatic shift.”
Yep. She is and her utterances are vomitrocious indeed. Now, Israel resorts to bullying and bribery:
“Israel to cut $2 million from UN funding due to ‘obsessive bias against Israel
Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Benjamin Netanyahu instructed the Foreign Ministry on Wednesday to cut $2 million from the funds Israel transfers to United Nations’ institutions, Foreign Ministry Spokesman Emanuel Nahshon said.
The cut, Nahshon said, is in response to the “hostile proposals concerning Israel adopted by the UN Human Rights Council.” The funds, the spokesman said, would be used instead to expand international assistance projects in countries that vote for Israel in international forums.
Nahshon explained that the decision was a part of a campaign being waged by Israel and its friends, with the United States foremost, to correct the “obsessive bias against Israel in the UN and its agencies.”
On Friday, the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva adopted four resolutions on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including a motion condemning settlement construction in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. The motion calls on states and firms to avoid both direct and indirect ties with the settlements.
The four resolutions were only declarative in nature.
In 2016, Israel gave the UN $11.7 million in membership fees, determined by the international organization according to the relative size of each state. Following the UN Security Council Resolution 2334, which severely criticized Israel over the settlements, Israel cut $6 million from its UN funding. After this new cut, Israel will only give $3.7 million to the UN.
On Monday, U.S. Ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley told AIPAC that the Trump administration will not allow a repeat of last year’s United Nations Security Council Resolution condemning Israel for its settlements. …”
More wah- wah- wah, victimhood, petulance, tantrums, shunning of international laws and opinion. Just remember that it’s your tax dollars at ‘work’. Please remember that the obnoxious Haley is this creature:
“From pioneering anti-BDS legislation to skewering Obama’s Iran deal, Nikki Haley, the South Carolina governor said to have accepted Donald Trump’s nomination for United Nations ambassador, seems to have a lot in common politically with Israel’s right-wing leaders.
Under her leadership, South Carolina became one of the first two states to enact legislation outlawing the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement against Israel (the other was Illinois).
The South Carolina measure which Haley signed into law last year doesn’t specify Israel by name but more generally prevents public entities from contracting with businesses engaging in the “boycott of a person or an entity based in or doing business with a jurisdiction with whom South Carolina can enjoy open trade.”
Law Number H3583 further bars “the state or a political subdivision of the state from accepting a proposal from or procuring goods or services from a business which engages in a boycott of a person or an entity based on race, color, religion, gender or national origin.”
In January, Haley championed Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s objections to the 2014 Iran deal in the Republican Party’s official response to President Barack Obama’s last State of the Union.
While not mentioning Israel by name, Haley said that were the GOP to control the White House, “we would make international agreements that were celebrated in Israel and protested in Iran, not the other way around.” …”
I literally could not stop laughing whilst reading this bit:
“I think Zionist education is critical here…. My wife is here so I’m going to get in trouble for what I’m going to say. But when I tell my children the story of our courtship, I begin– at a certain age I layer in one set of the story; at another age, I layer in another part of the story, when they’re ready, right? But first, I make sure they know that Mommy and Daddy love each other very, very much…
I mean, I’m an educator. I think there needs to be a full-court press from organizations like Hadassah and otherwise that at every level, Hebrew school kids, day school kids, and otherwise, the questions that my daughter was asking me– they need to have working answers all the way up through, until they are on their way to the college, and prepared with the narrative and the right of Jewish self-determination in their own land.
I think we’re woefully underpreparing American kids for that right now.”
Education, indoctrination. Tomato, tohmahto.
I’m guessing “naqba” will never be uttered in any of this education he is proposing.
“The “decades ahead promise abundant trouble for Israel and especially for the Palestinians,” he said.” -Mearsheimer
So in the “best case” scenario – when BDS “works”, whatever that means – there is more trouble for the Palestinians than for Israel.
Israel’s founding mythology narrative-that its Arab neighbors ganged up on them and would not allow it to establish a state of their own, omits the historical fact of the Nakba and the refusal to allow descendants of those ethnically cleansed to return. This is the Original Sin of Israel and must be acknowledged by Zionist before they begin a teach-in of the younger generation who are being enlightened rapidly on college campuses and elsewhere. The lid on the Truth is still there by our compliant Media but alternative info sources abound. If the goal of Zionism in principle and in its interpretation by its early leaders is explained properly, that all of Palestine belongs to the Jewish people and all others are not welcome. Moreover the recreation of biblical Israel ( eretz Israel) includes parts of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan. As long as our ruling elite maintain their fervent committee to this raging monster, it might actually be achieved,
So power is all?
Yes, many in the population of LIBYA, SYRIA, YEMEN, to only mention the most erupt, have no clue why anyone would identity with a state as envisioned by the West. The West made this reality.
.” The ones I know are sincere”
Very sincere. There were a couple of them fighting on my front lawn over who would get my motorcycle when I get in-gathered.
I agree with YoniFalic; this, after being on MW since 2008 and researching the issue myself all years since, although I am not Jewish, I am interested in justice and where my tax money goes as an American. Hannah Arendt was way ahead of most folks on this issue.
“Nonetheless it is the occupation of the west bank specifically, with a settlement occupation complicating the military occupation, “
What the f**k is that supposed to mean, “Yonah”? You are always trying to drop a poison pilpul into the discussion.
If it is a “military occupation” there shouldn’t be any settlers. The military can easily remove them. What Israeli Jew wouldn’t obey, with alacrity, celerity even, a request or order from the IDF?
And hey, if the settlers aren’t there, why does the military need to occupy ? C’mon “Yonah” cut the crap.
Some day, you Zionists will recognize what is really destroying the support of Zionism in the US.
You need to be well-armed to win a battle of wills!
I agree both actual Palestinians and their foreign supporters should immediately bring up the power of the Israel Lobby and US complicit main media, constantly. Followed by what US taxpayers pay for this injustice, which is $171 Billion to date, not counting interest and indirect funding of the Zionist agenda.
There are basic problems involved in the mere establishment of israel particularly given the expulsion that accompanied Israel’s birth and the “existential necessity” involved in keeping out the heirs of those expelled.
Nonetheless it is the occupation of the west bank specifically, with a settlement occupation complicating the military occupation, that is the wedge issue between the young of ifnotnow and mainstream older jews.
yes, by this time it’s accurate to single out Palestinians from all Arabs as it is to single out Israeli Jews from all Jews. Prior to 1948 neither status existed.
Yes, the US mainstream press has not bothered to cover the key Jewish guy responsible, but it had previously forced Trump to address the groundswell of Jew hatred threats; turns out his original suspicion of the source was correct, but there’s been no followup by him or the mainstream press. The alternative press just says the dual citizen kid had a brain tumor and that somehow his daddy was involved and was also arrested. Anybody got more info?
“they need to have working answers all the way up through, until they are on their way to the college, and prepared with the narrative and the right of Jewish self-determination in their own land.”
And they will be all set to teach the college the facts in their freshman year! That’s why we send them to college, isn’t it?
“I see her squirming with certain questions. My daughter.”
Rabbi, if you haven’t got what it takes to look that Prietzteh right in the eye and say ‘Keep asking those certain questions and you will start a battle of wills with your own father, do you hear?’ you haven’t got what it takes.
(It sounds even better if there are a couple of witnesses right on hand.)
I was once on a committee charged with explaining the meaning of a document (in fact, a programming language reference manual). We were not to change the meaning, just explain it. Easy, right?
Well at one point, a member of the committee said, “In other words, on page 88 line 15, where it says ‘Yes’ it means ‘No’ (just explaining the meaning, folks!) ”
So how are the Jewish community leaders (either self appointed or big-money-appointed in many cases) going to square (their version of) “Zionism” with things like the on-the-ground-actualities in Israeli-controlled territory. Tough? No way:
“When on page 1, line 1, of the Zionism Reference Manual, it says “Israel is democratic and Jewish”, it means “Jewish-dominated and apartheid rules to distinguish Jews and non-Jews.”
See? They don’t even need to change the words on page 1, line 1. Just explain them.
|| Mooser: … I really wish they wouldn’t stand outside my house, appraising it’s value, suggesting renovations and maintenance, and arguing over who will get it when I get ‘ingathered’. A little patience, brethren, okay? ||
Patience? Dude, every last one of them has been waiting 2,000 years for the Second Coming of our Lord “Sweet Baby” Jesus Christ (a.k.a. DJ Jeezy C.). Meanwhile, you’re lounging around in America instead of hustling your Alces alces butt back to your “ancient / historic homeland” to help bring about the end of the world.
Christian Zionists are f*cked up.
“instead of fighting the israelis…”
The Palestinians and Arab States had been using legal arguments since 1922. They tried every peaceful means to avert being colonized by foreigners before resorting to violence then terrorism because of the simple fact that peaceful means and legitimate armed resistance, like today, achieved nothing. The Zionist colonization of Palestine continues
The state of Israel is to blame for repercussions to its illegal actions
re: “It was a mystery to me why US “Christians” were so supportive of Zionism,”
Obviously, “U.S. Christians” are highly varied. “Mainline” Protestants who dominated the U.S. culture in the first half of the 20th Century were supportive of Israel after WWII, for reasons explained in “Zionism Unsettled,” the study guide prepared by a group of Presbyterians. Obviously, the Holocaust had a lot to do with it.
Most of those churches have moved toward a more critical stance regarding Israel as the occupation dragged on. But the mainline churches have declined in influence while more conservative churches have maintained or grown their influence.
The “Christian Zionists” I know are people who hear the Hebrew scriptures every week, presented with an interpretation from the pulpit that bears little relationship to historical interpretations and scholarship within the Christian tradition, as I understand it. I see them as victims of poor spiritual teachers. The ones I know are sincere, but sadly hard to persuade to accept an alternative view. There may be some such as you describe, but I don’t know any of them.
“Any” in English, means just any.
It’s not up to anybody, any, to second-guess what or who invaded and occupied Palestinians should target.
… How do I explain to my daughter that there’s a fundamental need for a state of Israel …
You don’t have to explain it to her because there is no fundamental need for either an Israel or a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.
… that Israel is not an apartheid state …
Tell her that it’s actually a religion-supremacist state.
… that Israel is a nation whose Arab neighbors have never acknowledged Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state …
Israel doesn’t have a right to exist as a religion-supremacist state. Its “Arab neighbours” shouldn’t be expected or required to acknowledge, accept or otherwise validate that non-existent “right”.
“Their own”, Kay? Since when are the Saudi and UAE Palestinian?
“So the only right thing and ‘overarching goal’, if Zionism is valid, is to arrange things so that they move to a place where it is right for them to be…the heartfelt good wishes for their new life, not to mention significant financial assistance, of all true Zionists and indeed of all people of good will would go with them
“MHughes976” ,are you trying to evade or obfuscate the failure of the non-Jewish (mostly Christian, unfortunately, in this case) nations to do their part to make Zionism work?
Zionism, for all of its uncertainties, illegalities, constant violence etc, was supposed to be better than a second or third-class existence in non-Jewish societies.
It didn’t have to be “right”,didn’t have to be perfect, it just had to be better than the terrible conditions of European antisemitism.
A nice low bar to shoot for!
But somebody (cough, cough, goyim) didn’t keep up their end of the bargain, did they? Pretty much dropped the ball in the US and later Britain and finally France and after WW2 in Europe.
We should’ve known we couldn’t depend on you over the long term. Don’t try to put it back on us.
@ Jon66 March 29, 2017, 8:28 am
“Agree to disagree.”
Sure. You want to just walk away from supporting crimes against humanity and the repercussions of committing those crimes. I believe the expression is quite deservedly, Go f*ck yourself!
The State of Israel’s illegal actions are wholly responsible for the repercussions to those actions. No one forced the Zionist Federation in 1897 or Israel post 1948 to decide to colonize other folks territories.
If the Zionist Federation had not insisted on a Jewish State instead of the fantastic deal offered in the LoN Mandate for Palestine (Article 7) albeit in non British territories, and;
if Israeli forces had not been in other folks territories on the day Israel’s borders were declared and;
if Israel had not willfully dispossessed some 711,000 non-Jews and;
if Israel had not attacked ALL of its neighbors and;
if Israel had not decided to illegally settle its citizens in non-Israeli territories,
no one would have been subject to the repercussions for those actions.
You and your lying wholly holey Hasbara bearing friends simply don’t want to get it. No one actually likes scum who lie, cheat and steal and no one likes those support those who lie, cheat, slaughter innocents, dispossess people in order to take their lands. The moment you start to be truthfull, people you thought were your ‘friends’ now, will stab you in the back. You want to be associated with their kind? Be my guest, you deserve ’em
Israel and anyone who supports Israel’s illegal expansionist policies are simply wrong and in breach of the basic tenets of Judaism, which, on behalf of an alleged Jewish state, is quite simply bizarre
Oh wow, sorry. Made a bad typo! “Fist” in the above comment should be, of course, “first”.
I see the question of expulsion – perhaps better ‘exclusion’ – like this. I take Zionism to be the claim that Jewish people, and they only, have an inherent right, now commonly called a birthright, to a share of sovereignty over the Holy Land, all of it, others receiving a share only by grace and generosity, though one may expect this generosity to be exercised quite a lot. Everything that has happened has been, in effect, to put into effect a claim of this nature.
Could one substitute the idea that there are two absolutely equal kinds of birthright a) from being Jewish b) from being born in Palestine, so that Jewish Zionists in the Holy Land would say of Palestinians ‘they have as much right to be here as we do’. I think not. The idea of equal and identical right precludes the
idea of a right on the part of either group, acting in its own interests, to make many members of the other group ‘not be here’, because that is to act from a superior, not an equal right. Yet Israel exists in current
fashion – and otherwise could not have ‘existed as a Jewish state’ – because of the exclusions of 48, which I think it is impossible
for Zionists to regard as morally wrong. So the ‘two kinds of birthright’ idea is not a form of Zionism.
But if the only birthright is Jewish then the Palestinians are really in the wrong place unless they are few enough to cause no trouble and be proper objects of pure generosity, which clearly they are not yet.
So the only right thing and ‘overarching goal’, if Zionism is valid, is to arrange things so that they move to a place where it is right for them to be, which is anywhere whose citizen body can be prevailed upon to accept or include them: the heartfelt good wishes for their new life, not to mention significant financial assistance, of all true Zionists and indeed of all people of good will would go with them. This would also let the Zionist venture, which is God’s will or some secular equivalent, proceed with greater alacrity and triumph to help all humanity in all manner of ways, scientific and moral. I don’t believe that I’m mocking or misrepresenting: this is what Zionism implies.
“Why on earth would anyone want to display the characteristics of an apologist for crimes against humanity?”
If a person has traumatic memories of injuries as an infant, is a victim of child abuse, and absorbs a compensatory ethnocentrism as a defense, they could very well end up like “DaBakr”. It’s sad.
“The road to hell are paved with good intentions.”
And the road to Zionist heaven is paved with bad intentions? Ooo, That Boris is bad enough! Such a tough Zionist.
“Agree to disagree.”
Well, isn’t that nice of you, “John 66”, condescending to us in that way.
Why, I don’t know what Mondo would do if you refused to “agree to disagree”. They would have to shut the place down.
“I had my own special relationship with Israel–a love affair, really, that took precedence over other human lovers–for the first half of my life”.
Oh yes, so did I ! I was keenly aware from the fist that Zionism wanted my body.
So what chance of the Palestinians getting freedom and statehood, when their own have joined their occupier? I guess Saudi Arabia and UAE have turned on them. Flying with the enemy.
Israeli Air Force Holds Joint Exercise With United Arab Emirates, U.S. and Italy
Photos from Iniohos 2017 training from past days show F-16 aircraft from UAE alongside an American Air Force transport plane at the Greek air force base.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.779823
“As for Christian Zionists, some of them believe that the ingathering of the Jews to the Holy Land is a precondition for, and prediction of, the second coming of Christ”
Okay maybe, but I really wish they wouldn’t stand outside my house, appraising it’s value, suggesting renovations and maintenance, and arguing over who will get it when I get ‘ingathered’. A little patience, brethren, okay?
The palestinians are a colonized folk and according to international laws they have the rights to use any means to free themselves, even killing their oppressors!
However Ali was not a hero, he was a terrorist, instead of fighting the israelis he and others decided to caper a civilian plane with many innocent civilians on it, because those civilians are not armed. In other words an easy target. Using any means does not cover such acts!!
“Those who don’t know their history are bound to repeat it.”
Not us, baby, we saw how things were, and said: “We’re gonna need a smaller pond.”
“Palestinians are as individual as anyone else, so she can’t possibly be speaking for an entire people. […] I have learned that telling [people] what language to use when they speak is the fastest way to turn a friend into an enemy.”
-> I totally agree!
“Personally I use Palestine/Israel sometimes when I am writing.”
-> That’s a good idea. I see it like this: “Palestine” is the name of the land. “Israel” is the name of the power that rules over this land. So, Palestine is under foreign rule by Israel.
“Yes, it is full of mosers and kapos, but it also has a lot of heroes and great people.”
If only we could bring it to the wide-screen cinema, in glorious color, with a cast of thousands!
The story of our upward struggle, but in a musical! “My Fair Jewry”
“You want some ketchup to go with your word salad?”
And one of these lovely “Jew sui generis buttons.
“You’ll have to spell out your argument in more detail.”
Very funny “RoHa”. But you do realize he is going to take you seriously, right?
“1. This guy is Jewish, so his brain tumor is blamed. He’s not a terrorist, just a sick young man”
So much for informed consent! Nobody explained the positive aspects of it before I had mine operated on.
“Those who don’t know their history are bound to repeat it.”
Right you are, “Boris”. Look what happened in Palestine, long ago. We better take a look at that, and the other attempts to make a religious grouping into a military nation.
Anyway, “Boris”, I really don’t see what you are so upset about. The history of the Jews has a lot of parallels with the history of the African peoples, and their diaspora through slavery.
Awesome and insightful comments–especially number 2.
“a lot of alleged anti-Semitic/racist/Islamophobic incidents are faked”
But the Muslims are so much better at it, we get white guys to shoot Indians and beat Sikhs and still collect all that victim nakhus. (shep nakhes?).
Drain the swamp Mr. President Trump.
SIBIRIAK- “This distinction is critical for many reasons, not the least of which being that Medvedev is widely understood to be leading a pro-Western, neoliberal faction in the government.”
Very important point. Putin, far from being a “dictator,” must perform a balancing act to get things done. Putin is as successful as he is only because of his overwhelming popularity. Medvedev and the rest of the Russian “Atlanticists” are more-or-less supported by the empire. Russia remains enmeshed within the global financial system, powerful forces acting in support of empire. Any serious erosion of Putin’s popularity could be fatal to him. The Western elites are out to remove Putin from power as should be obvious by all of the anti-Putin propaganda. The empire is on a rampage, the window of opportunity to achieve global hegemony rapidly closing.
SIBIRIAK- “Actually, the demonstrations were NOT against Putin, but rather against Russia’s prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, driven by accusations that he has accumulated vast real estate holdings through various forms of corruption.”
Indeed, more stunning Western media hypocrisy to blame Putin for the corruption of Medvedev which the West prefers to Putin and is probably supporting. Furthermore, this type of corruption was a consequence of the collapse of the Soviet Union and the introduction of capitalist “reforms” which created the oligarchs. This provides another opportunity to link to the most excellent interview Abby Martin did with Mark Ames, an American journalist who spent a decade reporting from Yeltsin’ and Putin’s Russia and witnessed the country’s transformation from an American “colony” to it’s “number one threat.” https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2017/01/23/abby-martin-russias-transformation-from-an-american-colony-to-its-number-one-threat/#more-182704
having read all the dailies highlighted by nikki haley, AIPAC’s ’17 highest flying star, it is notable that here in a more than obligatory, even desultory, article the UN’s new “high heeled sheriff” garnered no mention at all. now what’s that all about!
I didn’t think of that, but you’re probably right.
As for the confession being extracted under torture? Of course. Standard operating procedure.
Meanwhile, the actual hackers will go on hacking the Israeli military. And more power to them.
Not quite omnia. Money talks, but votes talk even louder.
As for Christian Zionists, some of them believe that the ingathering of the Jews to the Holy Land is a precondition for, and prediction of, the second coming of Christ. Some of them will convert to Christianity and be saved; the rest will go to hell. Christian Zionists’ support for Israel is perfectly consistent with anti-Semitism.
It’s a longstanding myth, from the book of Apocalypse. Andrew Marvell (17th century) tells his coy mistress that if they “had but world enough and time,” “You should, if you please, refuse / Till the conversion of the Jews.”
One of the problems here is that Gaza is dependent upon economic aid and doesn’t want to jeopardize that. Unfortunately the gravy train can’t go on forever. Israel is in the same position. To some extent this conflict is manufactured to keep the money flowing. The solution is one-state with equal rights for all. Need to end this nonsense.
… When prime minister Netanyahu spoke at the film’s premiere in Jerusalem in September, he recalled that in the 1970s, “terrorists were like preying animals, grabbing planes, kidnapping passengers and threatening to kill them and sometimes doing so”. …
In the 1970s, Zionists were a larger and more-powerful predator, stealing and colonizing territory, oppressing or expelling non-Jews and torturing and threatening to kill them and sometimes doing so – all in the name of Jewish supremacism in/and a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine. Nothing’s changed.
“I still didn’t fully understand that it was all indigenous Palestinian land occupied by Israel. ”
In Canada, at least in the circles I frequent, it is now common practice to begin a public event by acknowledging that it is taking place on the traditional land of … whichever First Nations used to live there.
If this ever takes place in Israel, then Israel will have become a civilized nation. But it isn’t very likely, and I don’t expect it.
1. This guy is Jewish, so his brain tumor is blamed. He’s not a terrorist, just a sick young man.
2. Has no one mentioned the Reichstag fire? Why not?
The other thing about AIPAC is that it has to suck up to power even if it is Trump. It has nothing to do with Jewish values. It’s all about money.
Nobody at AIPAC cares about ordinary Israeli Jews
There is a very sad story in Haaretz today about a man with schizophrenia who murdered his wife. There’s a picture of Tiberias. It’s a poor city. It’s not a settlement. It doesn’t get much investment.
Israel is the ultimate special interest.
and voters are sick of corruption.
Plus Trump won’t deliver to his voters.
So anger will be ratcheted even higher next time. Israel vs the people will be very messy
Tammany Hall was strangled by a Democrat. It was easy because the Dems had the backing of the public. Zionism is Tammany Hall 2.0
… When Fuqaha’s body was found with four bullets in his head, rumors immediately spread that Palestinians who had collaborated with Israeli intelligence agents were responsible. And indeed, a few hours later, two press releases were issued, one by Hamas and one by al-Qassam, which claimed Israel was responsible for the crime. Although no tangible proof of Israel’s involvement has been reported … (Although there are members of ISIS and other extremist groups in Gaza who would also have an interest in killing Fuqaha … ) …
Hamas is wise not to rush to war given that:
– there’s “no tangible proof of Israel’s involvement”; and
– the actual perpetrators could be Palestinian collaborators, ISIS or other extremists in Gaza.
(Side note: A quadruple-tap to the head seems like overkill for a professional assassin or group of assassins.)
I find it remarkable, Stephen, that Liz’s complex, nuanced account of both the political and personal scope of the Israel Lobby and American Policy Conference could be reduced to an anti-identity-politics lecture. Liz was clear that Ashrawi was being interviewed at the time: “There were several others going towards her as well and then there was a microphone and a light and I saw she was being interviewed.” I doubt that anyone would consider it appropriate for Liz to burst into the interview and interrupt with comments on how she has been personally moved by Ashrawi’s work. Of course, yes, later in the paragraph she writes, “I didn’t get a chance to speak to her, and then I thought it was appropriate not to. I’m sure she didn’t need to hear how a Jew has changed.” It seems clear to me that her decision not to speak to Ashrawi was primarily determined by the fact that Ashrawi was in the middle of being interviewed; then, the more she thought about it, she decided against speaking to Ashrawi altogether because, as a Jew–and, more specifically, as a former Zionist, as someone taking responsibility for her politically privileged position–she thought it was more appropriate to listen rather than speak. After all, the need for listening seems to be one of the primary themes of her essay: “At the one-day conference last Friday, when I listened to Mearsheimer speak, I remembered my inability to listen when I was a Zionist. Now my head feels more clear and open to the multiple narratives instead of the dominant Zionist one. Zionists spend so much energy refuting and defending that they have very little energy left to listen.” It’s convenient to respond to this essay with a glib sermon on PC culture. It takes more work, instead, to listen.
In solving a crime one must visualize what motives would be served by the act. It could be that the unfortunate Michael Kaydar has a grudge against the Diaspora. Or we have, as it turns out, that other case of the possessive spurned lover trying to harass his Ex. by framing her as the perpetrator. But then, wouldn’t it serve to dampen the dreaded BDS movement in America by creating the illusion of a surge in hate? The BDS’ers would shrink from public demonstrations during the crisis. Michael Kaydar may have thought it helpful to Israel to spread false alarms. Time will tell further as to how the Authorities treat the culprit. Will it be adjudged felonious or a misdemeanor?
Whatever the outcome, the false bomb alarms have caused the Jewish Community Center in Rochester NY to be given $200,000 from New York State to help with security:
pecunia vincit omnia
“Nothing to cheer about”
Agree to disagree.
Liz: I don’t think Ashrawi would have minded being told how much you were moved by her book and her talk or that it would have been in any way inappropriate. She might have found it encouraging to know that her efforts are not in vain. It is a pity that you held back.
In general, Palestinians are people and as such vary widely in character, personality, and attitudes. Some make Jews the focus of their political work. For them it is helpful to know more about Jews’ journeys. Others may have a milder interest in the matter. Yet others may be indifferent or irritated. Even by surveying articles and comments by Palestinians on Mondoweiss you can find a range of attitudes. The pigeon-holes and formulas of identity politics are harmful as well as misleading because they prevent us from seeing and responding to people as individuals.
Unfortunately Kay24,The Israel Lobby in Australia has undermined the current Australian Government. Australian Government Members have made idiots of themselves attempting to justify support for Israel. The current Australian government will fall at the next election because of its support of Israel. I liken it to Trumps support of Netanyahu and his Right Wing Israeli Terrorist government. Trump will be no more successful in getting support for Israel than if he stood before the Senate and said similar statements about Adolf Hitler and Americas unshakeable Special relationship and shared values with the German Nazi Party. The Apartheid Report hit the nail on the head and American and Israeli Pressure to have it withdrawn will only make matters worse for Israel because enough people have read it to realise the truth it spoke. The fact Israel is planning another all out assault on Gaza will seal Israel’s fate. Israel is crumbling…..its integrity is smashed wide open.(not that it ever had any)
|| Boris: … The road to hell are paved with good intentions. … ||
Indeed. Zionists will tell you that the “Jewish State” project was all about good intentions and you can see how nicely that road is paved.
I agree with what you say, but I have not much hope that things will turn around. As long as AIPAC and other Israeli lobbies are allowed to operate within our political system, as long as our shameless politicians keep groveling for contributions and support, and show unshakeable devotion for it, even more than their own nation, the US will forever be controlled, and manipulated by that parasitic nation. The same story with the media too.
Yes, a rapee is not a rapier.
American politicians have a short life span compared to Zionist Movement who have had over a century practicing the craft putting its money and people in places of influence to suit and protect its vile colonization project.
Why do you think that is? Is the EU press a tad more objective? If not, what?
Yes, Streicher was hanged for doing nothing but engaging in inflammatory propaganda against the Jewish people.
Those involved in an enmeshed relationship cannot see what they are doing to each other, or to others impacted by them.
re: ” “Foreign aid to Israel is sacred, we know that.”
It has long been evident that modern Israel is sacred to many Jews, especially for those who no longer believe in G*d. Interesting that it has become so for goy pols. I had thought it was just their own re-election that was sacred to them.
Years ago I heard one of the top three female pols from CA (it hardly matters which, since on this subject they run together) avow to a cheering crowd: “we don’t want an even-handed policy regarding Israel and Palestinians, we want a pro-Israel policy.” She carefully avoided saying “Palestine,” lest parallel construction equate the status of the two.
Her tone clearly said, “even-handed policy? we don’t need no stinkin’ even-handed policy.”
re: “Actually, the demonstrations were NOT against Putin, but rather against Russia’s prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev,”
Thanks for the needed information.
@ ErsatzYisrael March 28, 2017, 11:11 pm
“It wasn’t “a civil war”, if it was in Palestine and against non-Palestinian [i.e., foreign] colonizers”
If the colonizers had achieved citizenship in Palestine and there were those who did, it was a civil war.
Hashem = the name.
sorry it was clear the first time.
Territory of Oblivia, territory of Mixambigua
You are arguing in what seems a logical circle here. Without n-nations there are no fixed territories. How do decide of Oblivia is a territory that gets a fully independent p-state or a part of Greater Mixambigua? Since setting up a government requires the consent of consensus in a territory and the people of Oblivia did not have a consensus from the people living in Greater Mixambigua…
“Foreign aid to Israel is sacred, we know that. That is sacred,” House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said when discussing budget cuts. Her counterpart in the Senate also spoke of God. “I pledge to you today as long as Hachem [God in Hebrew] breathes air into my lungs,” Chuck Schumer said, “I will fight to make Israel a safer more secure, more prosperous nation!”
1) wrt Pelosi – what happened to separation of church and state? Was she getting poked with a cattle prod or what?
2) Has Schumer ever made a similar pledge wrt the people who voted him and the country he actually lives in?
The translation of ‘Hashem’ is only the name. So who knows who he was pledging to anyway, probably just netanyahooo. #soldtheirsoulsforNIS
I don’t think that Jewish college student who drew swastikas on her exterior dorm wall had a brain tumor. She just didn’t realize a security camera was filming her.
“seems like the ‘alt-left’/far left or at least the israel-haters over here are just as ‘thrilled’ .”
Bitch, bitch, bitch and slander. You might be thrilled about this, but I think the correct words would be: Not surprised. Not one bit.
You must have an amazing set of lungs to have not drowned in your self pity Duhbee.
If one key talking TV Cable Infotainment anchor, e.g., Chris Matthews, or Shawn Hannity, for example did one show on the real Israel and the power of the Israel Lobby, the American people would wake up overnight, and soon thereafter CSPAN WJ would be inundated with calls from angry Americans, calls CSPAN would not be able to stifle without serious credibility loss. The fallout would be quick, calls to congress critters would be incessant, just one crack….
“One day American politicians will show they have a spine and a conscience.”
Yes, it looks to me as though Sasha is trying to blame Trump for anti-Semitism and racism on the basis of purposefully falsified anti-Semitism that had nothing to do with Trump.
If these websites can be trusted (and I never really trust any) it seems that a lot of alleged anti-Semitic/racist/Islamophobic incidents are faked.
Sasha says “America has experienced such a mass outbreak of Anti-Semitism … [Trump’s] toxic role in the resurgence of Anti-Semitism in this country… the explosion of racism in the wake of the Trump election … the supercharged atmosphere of Trumpworld Fascism and its intense racism”.
Has there actually been a resurgence of Anti-Semitism or an explosion of racism in the US? Are there any figures of actual incidents to support the claim?
Or is this just hysterical bleating?
Philip Weiss: the media gave top billing to the demonstrations against Vladimir Putin
Actually, the demonstrations were NOT against Putin, but rather against Russia’s prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, driven by accusations that he has accumulated vast real estate holdings through various forms of corruption.
This distinction is critical for many reasons, not the least of which being that Medvedev is widely understood to be leading a pro-Western, neoliberal faction in the government.
Keep in mind that anti-corruption demonstrations, far from being seen in Russia as “anti-Putin”, actually fit in quite nicely with Putin’s own ostensibly anti-corruption actions, most notably the recent arrest of Alexei Uliukaev, Minister of the Economy in the Medvedev government, on charges of extortion and corruption.
Cf. “Putin Is (Finally) Purging the Medvedev Government ” (highly speculative article)
Instead of adhering to the law, getting out of all non-Israeli territories as required by law the stupid Israelis caused more bloodshed. Nothing to cheer about Jon66. They’re still at it, still morons and still supported by morons.
It is a manifestation of the level of Zionist Israel’s corruption and bribing of American politicians. Their greed for Israeli money sees them on their knees proving their worth to the Israeli Government…proof positive of why AIPAC and its money and influence needs to be packed up, banned and deported from America. One day American politicians will show they have a spine and a conscience. Shared Values? Apartheid policies, home demolitions, extra judicial killings that amount to cold blooded murder, illegal land and possessions theft, jailing for indefinite terms without charge, JAILING OF CHILDREN UNDER 14. Americans share those values? Starving Gazans to death and refusing them medical treatment so they die and destroy their water sources and power plants and destroy thousands of homes and then refuse them the right to materials to rebuild. Americans share those values do they? I very much doubt it. Only the paid American Politicians share those values because their own values have been lowered by Zionist Israel. Americans need to get vocal and demand change…….Americans are being sold down the river by Israel….it is the anchor dragging America down.
Sounds like her political views depend on who signs her books.
“The Art of the Deal”?
“I want to state,” Yudka spoke with an effort in low, tense tones, “that I am opposed to Jewish history.”
The “Never Again!” statement comes from this opposition.
However, I would disagree with the idea of forbidding to teach Jewish history. Those who don’t know their history are bound to repeat it.
Yes, it is full of mosers and kapos, but it also has a lot of heroes and great people.
You’ll have to spell out your argument in more detail. I don’t see it. I see two reasons to object to states acquiring territory by force.
First, if the people who live in the territory of Oblivia have the right to establish a state (the p-nation of Oblivia) in that territory, then it seems that they would also have the right to maintain that state. Thus, when the King of Mixambigua proposes that the territory of the p-nation of Oblivia becomes part of the p-nation of Mixambigua, it seems that the people of Oblivia have a prima facie right to say, “No thanks. We prefer to remain Oblivious.”
Now, if there are no strong moral reasons that outweigh that prima facie right, and the King of Mixambigua nonetheless sends his army in and annexes Oblivia by force, he violates the rights of the Oblivians.
Second, the way acquiring territory by force is usually done involves a fair amount of killing, injury, destruction of property, molestation of sheep, and so forth. This, too, is a violation of rights.
Beautifully written rants.
“History will make us pay for this”
well in Arabic Raqqa, your latest acquisition, means swamp, morass perhaps quagmire.
“It was a civil war, in Palestine, against non-Palestinian colonizers.”
It wasn’t “a civil war”, if it was in Palestine and against non-Palestinian [i.e., foreign] colonizers.
@ DaBakr March 28, 2017, 8:56 pm
” this site and the bulk of its commenters are comfortably ensconced in the far left, left wing or whatever you consider is the opposite of the so-called ‘alt-right’.”
Right and wrong are neither ‘left’ or ‘right’.
The UNSC tells us Israel, the Occupying Power, is in breach of its legal obligations. AKA Israel is in the wrong.
You support dispossession, the illegal acquisition of territory by war, collective punishment, murder, the coveting of other folks territories and you have absolutely no valid arguments in support of those quite clearly Naziesque traits.
There are exactly no valid arguments in support of Israel’s crimes against humanity. None! From the bullsh*t that Israel didn’t declare any borders, to whatever MarkTwain wrote, cherry tomatoes, Nobel prizes, mobile phones, ‘we made the desert bloom’, it’s all nonsense that has absolutely no bearing on Israel’s recognized borders and the Jewish State’s illegal, immoral, unethical activities outside of those borders since 00:01 May 15th 1948
Take your pathetic whinging to the Zionist Federation for having decided to and who continue to colonize Palestine against all the principals of the basic common sense tenets of Judaism.
“Our intentions were good.”
The road to hell are paved with good intentions.
That’s where these shaheeds end up.
“Wow, “Jeffy”, man, I gotta say it, be churlish not to, credit where it’s due.
Dude, you toss a great zio word salad!”
You want some ketchup to go with your word salad?