100 Most Recent Comments


eljay
November 23, 2017, 8:32 am

|| Mayhem: Even in Australia the government is talking about introducing anti-terror plans that could see 10-year-olds held without charge. … ||

And the Law Council has rightly referred to these plans as an “extraordinarily draconian” measure.

The fact remains that Australia isn’t militarily-occupying the West Bank, operating separate legal systems in it, subjecting its non-Jewish inhabitants to military rule and transferring detained children to prisons in Australia in contravention of Geneva Conventions prohibiting the transfer of an occupied civilian population.

Zionists – like other defenders of injustice and immorality – suffer terribly from Whataboutism.

Maghlawatan
November 23, 2017, 8:11 am

“Struggle for basic rights ” begins . In the Jewish space. It is frightening how a culture can be hijacked to become its opposite.
Imagine what the Baal Shem Tov would say. How very Cossack.

Maghlawatan
November 23, 2017, 8:09 am

Israel is drenched in violence. It is a fractal that governs all relationships in Judistan. They can’t switch it off.

And they tell themselves lies about who they are. The curse of the planter. Like in the Deep South.

Ossinev
November 23, 2017, 6:52 am

@Mayhem
“terror related activities” = throwing stones at heavily armed soldiers who are occupying their lands. OMG the most moral must be quaking in their boots everytime they go out “on patrol” in their armored jeeps. Oh the terror the terror the terror . Nightmares about pebbles falling from the sky . Sleepless nights anti depressants one to one counselling etc etc It`s only their world leading morality which keeps them insane.

Kay24
November 23, 2017, 6:50 am

I hope you realize that propaganda is not working anymore. Blaming the victims has it’s limits.

Kindly explain to us how the strongest (and ruthless) military in the Middle East, known for being a top weapons manufacturer, gets the latest deadly weapons, and jet fighters, from the US, and has the support of the US, kills thousands of Palestinians when it “mows the lawn” is so terrified, of UNARMED civilians, that resist the occupation WITH STONES AND ROCKETS THAT HARDLY HITS THEIR TARGET.

Do explain why Israel who has held these poor people under occupation for decades, controls their movements, is not so afraid of the Palestinians to STOP STEALING THEIR
LANDS?

According to the zionist narrative, the Palestinians do not want live in peace, they enjoy being occupied, children kidnapped and thrown in jail, have their lands stolen, have to go through checkpoints, have their farms destroyed, homes bulldozed, olive trees stolen, and precision bombs being sent to their homes, wiping out entire families. Pro occupiers sound so ridiculous.

Give us a break, and stop blaming the victims of Israel’s brutality..

Citizen
November 23, 2017, 5:59 am

This too? Netanyahu rebukes deputy after she criticized U.S. Jews for not ‘fighting for their country’ https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.824553

John O
November 23, 2017, 3:15 am

@Jack Green

On 25 October 2017 you wrote:

“There are 60 million refugees.
ZERO are Jews because Israel takes in all Jews.
Israel has been a great success with refugees.
Gentile countries have been an enormous failure with refugees.
60 million gentile refugees are suffering.”

Easy to be a success if you set conditions that ensure most refugees fail your entry test. Still, there’s no success like failure, and failure’s no success at all.

echinococcus
November 23, 2017, 1:10 am

Mooser,

Of course the Zionists will end up imposing a “binational state”, whatever that is, by the force of arms. If they can’t manage to complete their genocide, that is. Enter the “Liberal” invaders and the Shulmans and such: if Palestinians are allowed to remain physically alive, out go the Libermans and Yahoos and the liberals take care of anchoring the invasion by making it, uh, ehm, consensual.

It’s their only chance of remaining in Palestine long term, just like a tick. I remember having a skin abscess fully two years after I thought I had pulled out a tick in the forest: the head was still inside my skin, at the center of the abscess.

Kathleen
November 23, 2017, 12:54 am

Kushner, Fynn, Manafort, Don Jr going down unless they roll over on the Donald. The only person who can pardon them before resigning since he will not want to go through an impeachment. Ok I can dream

echinococcus
November 23, 2017, 12:39 am

Misterioso,

Arguing with Zionists about compromises made at the point of a gun doesn’t really make sense. When one points out that this or that Palestinian politician “recognized” the Zionist entity or declared readiness to coexist with it, the zombies get arrogant and want more **as if there was any obligation for Palestinians to let any invader sit on their land** Look at the Nathan’s bitter recriminations: the propagandist for goddam squatters and thieves has the crust to make it an accusation that “Israel” is not fully recognized, etc. as if they had any right to anything other than a kick in the backside!

Possibly one should every time preface such discussions with the obvious fact that any such “recognition” is nothing but a compromise extracted under armed threat and that there never was any obligation to tolerate a single invader’s presence anywhere in Palestine.

This is also the big drawback of “binational state” or “two-state”-type discussions: any such wishes totally disregard Palestinian rights, putting thieves and invaders on an equal footing with legitimate owners. They may be fine for compromises –provided that it is clear on all sides that this would be a compromise under the gun and that it violates basic rights.

It should also to be stated every time that believing in any possibility of reciprocal compromise from the invader side, at even the most elementary level, is more retarded than believing in Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

JosephA
November 22, 2017, 10:36 pm

Jack,

Stop trying to defend human rights violations and racist colonialists – it’s rather uncouth. There’s no defense for these crimes against humanity.

Shame on you.

Brewer
November 22, 2017, 10:30 pm

So utterly preposterous I am reluctant to even reply Jack.
The Assyrian captivity AKA the Lost Tribes ??
An biblical event with not one shred of archaeological or Historic evidence.
Tudor Vernon Parfitt is a British historian. He is Emeritus Professor of Modern Jewish Studies in the University of London at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS), where he was the founding director of the Centre for Jewish Studies.
Here is what he says about this fable:
“the Lost Tribes are indeed nothing but a myth”
– Parfitt, Tudor (2003). The Lost Tribes of Israel: The History of a Myth. Phoenix. pp. 1, 225.

My understanding of the (again probably mythical) Babylonian exile is that it lasted about 70 years then they returned.

The Romans we have dealt with. You can find references to anything from 100s to 100s of thousands of slaves taken by the Romans. The logistics of moving captives at the time argues against a large number. No one has a clue how many but since Vespasian gave permission for the Sanhedrin to be moved to Yavneh at that time, we can be certain a great number remained, many of whom became Christian and Muslim during the subsequent couple of millennia. There was no general expulsion, as Israel Bartal explains. Any slaves were taken from the Zealots to whom the majority of Jews were opposed. That you cite the Menorah in Titus’ Triumph as “proof” of 20,000 slaves makes me question your fitness to debate these issues. There is a trumpet next to the Menorah. Does this prove Satchmo was among the captives? There is an equivalent logical connection – i.e. none whatsoever.

Is this the best you can do? Are you seriously suggesting these events (even if they were fact) justify the expulsion of a populace descended from the very same stock and who had lived on the land for thousands of years? Please address that question.

Nathan
November 22, 2017, 8:19 pm

Misterioso – It’s quite true that the PLO recognized Israel in the 1947 Partition Plan borders; however, you forgot to mention that the PLO flatly rejects the Partition Plan. It’s also true that the PLO recognized Israel in the 1993 Oslo Agreement; however, it should be noted that the PLO does not recognize the legitimacy Israel.

The PLO also accepted the Arab League Peace Initiative which is totally depended on reaching an Israeli-Palestinian final agreement; however, there is absolutely no intention to negotiate with Israel a final agreement.

And, yes, Hamas revised its charter, calling for a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza; but you forgot to mention that the very same revised charter claims that there are absolutely no rights for “the usurping Zionist entity”. (Actually, you should provide the exact quote from the Hamas Charter: “However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees… to be a formula of national consensus”). So, you’re right when you claim that Israel didn’t respond to the Hamas proposal; however, you forgot to mention that Hamas is not proposing anything to Israel (the ‘usurping Zionist entity’ in the charter which, apparently, you haven’t read).

I would suggest to you that you read the website of the PLO and Hamas. I’m assuming that an intelligent observer of the conflict is able to read a few pages in Arabic. Binajjah (good luck)!

Mayhem
November 22, 2017, 7:51 pm

Even in Australia the government is talking about introducing anti-terror plans that could see 10-year-olds held without charge. These measures relating to children are not indicative of brutal regimes rather the growth of terror-related activities amongst young people. In the case of Palestinian children they are egged on by an education system that encourages incitement and violence.

amigo
November 22, 2017, 7:43 pm

“Avoiding active service in the IDF.” mooser

Mooser , Jon S prepares his charges for life in the IDF. He teaches them how to win hearts and minds in “The Territories”. He teaches them the value of treating the enemy with respect .His specialty is to show them how to make Palestinians feel at ease about having their home invaded and occupied by someone from some far off part of the world.He gained valuable experience in this endeavour , on the ground in Beersheba. He has lived there for years and has never had a complaint from the people who came , or should I say went , before him.He never even bothered to change the locks. , to which the previous owners still have the keys.

lonely rico
November 22, 2017, 7:30 pm

> Jerry Hirsch

… BDS America now!!!

Quite so.
I personally have not bought a bottle of American wine in the last 25 years.
I found other wines – Spain, Italy, Portugal, even Canada (a tad “icey”.
It’s been tough, and the Californian winemakers struggle on without me …

amigo
November 22, 2017, 7:18 pm

“There are 65 million refugees.None are Jew because Israel takes in all Jewish refugees.”wacko jacko.

Well , that,s easy because Israel ethnically cleansed 700,000 indigenous Palestinians and burned /destroyed 450 villages to make room for so called Jewish refugees.

BTW , jacko , would you agree that the USA is a Christian majority country and they took in , and still is taking in Jewish refugees including many from Israel .

Shame on the USA , endangering Israel,s Jewish Majority status by pirating Jews from their historic homeland and placing them in mortal danger and at the mercy of the Christian hordes in Antisemitic US of A who want to kill them —ALL , because they are Jewish.

Rusty Pipes
November 22, 2017, 6:31 pm

Just to be clear, Linda Sarsour is not universally admired among Arab Americans, supporters of Palestinian rights, Progressives and feminists. For over six years, these communities have been deeply divided over the Syrian conflict. Sarsour’s strong vocal support for the Syrian opposition has put her at odds with many Arab Americans (the majority of whom are Christians), Syrian Palestinian refugees (the majority of whom oppose the insurgency), Progressives who oppose the neocon (Bush)/neolib (Obama/Clinton) agenda for taking out seven countries in the Middle East (including Syria) and feminist Bernie supporters who are concerned that the pink pussyhat march and the Resistance are efforts of Establishment Democrats to divert energy away from reforming the Democratic Party into simple anti-Trump rhetoric.

amigo
November 22, 2017, 5:35 pm

Jack , your second link is to an article written by , one , Sarina Roffee.

She does not provide one reference or evidence of her claims.

Your wiki link is full of (citation needed) notes.

In any case , the wiki article is akin to copying and pasting pages from the bible.

Please provide realistic and verifiable evidence v myths from a book , written by Jews , for Jews.

You and your crazy zio fellow travelers might swallow this nonsense but there is not one serious court of law on this planet –hell , in this universe that would treat this work of fiction as anything other than pure fantasy.

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 5:28 pm

“amigo, I’m a “peacenik”, as you put it because I’ve been active in…”

…avoiding any active IDF duty. Occupation service is for sabras. And they better like it!

Sibiriak
November 22, 2017, 5:26 pm

Some details on Google/State Department connection:

Media Orgs Donate to Clinton Foundation Then Downplay Clinton Foundation Scandal

To understand why The New York Times, Google, CNN and PBS would censor negative information about Clinton, particularly, stories revolving around the Clinton Foundation scandal, all you have to do is follow the money. All of these companies have donated—in some cases up seven figures—to the Clinton Foundation. Carlos Slim, Chairman & CEO of Telmex, the largest New York Times shareholder, donated between $1 and $5 million. Google donated between $500K and $1 million.

* * * *

A deeper look into Google’s ties to Clinton , specifically while she was secretary of state, exposes more reasons why the tech giant has a vested interest in censoring the AP’s bombshell story. Wikileaks exposed that Google teamed up with Clinton’s State Department to overthrow Syrian President Bashar al Assad in 2012.

In leaked emails between Clinton’s staff and Google executive Jared Cohen—who worked for Clinton at the State Department before joining Google—Cohen details Google’s plan to get involved in the region and to boost Assad defections.

The exchange proves that the tech company worked in concert with the State Department to topple Assad’s government. Further proving Google’s nvolvement with US foreign policy, Cohen helped draft the State Department’s 21st Century Statecraft Initiative, which called for using Internet and social media technologies to pursue diplomatic goals.

Google’s controversial relationship with Clinton has raised enough eyebrows that the Oracle Corporation is using its resources to launch the Google Transparency Project. The mission is to shed sunlight on Google’s relationships with Clinton and President Barack Obama. The GTP has already produced a series of investigative reports on Google including one that reveals that there were 18 former State Department officials that joined Google as executives and five Google officials who acquired senior positions at the State Department. [emphasis added] ”

http://observer.com/2016/08/media-orgs-donate-to-clinton-foundation-then-downplay-clinton-foundation-scandal/

——————————————————————-

Clinton email reveals: Google sought overthrow of Syria’s Assad

Cohen worked as a member of the secretary of state’s policy planning staff from 2006 to 2010, when he was hired to lead Google Ideas, but was tied to using social media to incite uprisings even before he left the department. He once reportedly asked Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey to hold off of conducting system maintenance that officials believed could have impeded a brief 2009 uprising in Iran, and Julian Assange, who founded the secret-leaking website WikiLeaks, has for years referred to Cohen as Google’s “director of regime change.”

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/clinton-email-reveals-google-sought-overthrow-of-syrias-assad/article/2586300

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 5:10 pm

“Where is the break away Jewish movement of Rabbis that reject Zionism?”

Things being as they are,( in the US, anyway,) it may be easier and more practical to reject Zionism by breaking away from Judaism.
That may speak to what Judaism offers Jewish people as a religion besides Zionism.

Misterioso
November 22, 2017, 4:57 pm

Just out:

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/1.824264?utm_content=%2Fus-news%2F1.824264&utm_medium=email&utm_source=smartfocus&utm_campaign=newsletter-most-read

“Report: Mueller Investigating Kushner’s Efforts to Combat UN Resolution Condemning Israeli Settlements”

“In the lead-up to the vote on the resolution, there were speculations that Russia could veto it, thus protecting Israel after the Obama administration decided to abstain”
Amir Tibon (Washington, D.C.). Nov 22, 2017 – Haaretz.

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 4:54 pm

“In April of 2014, shortly before the onset of Operation Protective Edge, Lockheed Martin expanded its Tel Aviv office and opened an office in Be’er Sheva, Israel. They announced that the opening of the office was to demonstrate Lockheed Martin’s commitment to supporting the Israeli Defense Force and their “Move to the South” campaign”

In Beer Sheva? “Jon s” must have protested vociferously.

Jack Green
November 22, 2017, 4:38 pm

There are 65.3 million refugees. None are Jews because Israel takes in all Jewish refugees.

Before complaining that Israel doesn’t take in enough gentile refugees, let the majority-Christian & majority-Muslim countries take in Christian & Muslim refugees. Also, let’s remember that 6 million Jews died because majority-Christian & majority-Muslim countries refused to take in Jewish refugees.

Furthermore, let’s remember why Israel was created. Israel was created to be a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for their Jewish citizens. If Israel takes in too many gentiles, it will no longer be majority-Jewish. Unfortunately, there still is a need for a majority-Jewish country because Jews are still targeted for being Jews.

Jack Green
November 22, 2017, 4:36 pm

eljay

There wouldn’t be an occupation if Palestinians had not attacked Israel and
the occupation wouldn’t have lasted this long if Palestinians were willing to live in peace with Israel.

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 4:32 pm

Oh boy! Are we at the circus? There’s a parade of irrelevants!

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 4:27 pm

“You can take a walk over to the nearest library, and there you’ll find a book entitled “The History of the Jewish People”.

I found it, and checked it out! From the moment I picked up that book up until I laid it down I was convulsed with tears. Someday I intend on reading it.

Jack Green
November 22, 2017, 4:26 pm

Brewer

The first exile was the Assyrian exile, the expulsion from the Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) begun by Tiglath-Pileser III of Assyria in 733 BCE. This process was completed by Sargon IIwith the destruction of the kingdom in 722 BCE, concluding a three-year siege of Samaria begun by Shalmaneser V. The next experience of exile was the Babylonian captivity, in which portions of the population of the Kingdom of Judah were deported in 597 BCE and again in 586 BCE by the Neo-Babylonian Empire under the rule of Nebuchadnezzar II.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora

The emperor Titus brought 20,000 Jewish slaves to Rome, slaves used to bulid the Roman Coliseum. Proof of this lies in the Arch of Titus, which depicts a menorah as part of the bounty from Jerusalem.

https://www.jewishgen.org/sephardic/coliseum.htm

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 4:22 pm

“It’s impressive how a religious conversion can transform…”

Well, there also some gene-splicing. That’s what the little knives are for.

jon s
November 22, 2017, 3:55 pm

Wait a minute, wasn’t JFK allegedly assassinated by a conspiracy that included the mafia, the CIA, the FBI, the Secret Service, the Dallas Police, the KGB, anti-Castro Cubans, pro-Castro Cubans and Ted Cruz’s dad?

jon s
November 22, 2017, 3:47 pm

Citing Michael Collins Piper doesn’t add credibility to the theory , any theory. He was associated with white supremacism, Anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial.

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 3:40 pm

Hey “Nathan”, did you ever hear the story of six blind men and the irrelevant?

jon s
November 22, 2017, 3:32 pm

amigo, After viewing the video, I’m pretty sure that it’s not me.

eljay
November 22, 2017, 3:28 pm

|| Miriam: … http://forward.com/fast-forward/388191/in-cote-divoire-a-jewish-community-is-born/ ||

According to the article:

… a Jewish conversion panel will arrive at Abidjan to finalize the conversion to Judaism of 42 candidates …

It’s impressive how a religious conversion can transform a 21st century West African into (as Nathan tells it) an ancient person from Judah and grant him a right to “return” to his “ancient homeland” in the religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in geographic Palestine.

jon s
November 22, 2017, 3:23 pm

amigo, I’m a “peacenik”, as you put it because I’ve been active in groups that strive for Israeli-Palestinian peace and oppose the occupation and the settlements. We need to seek a better future for both Palestinians and Israelis.

eljay
November 22, 2017, 3:12 pm

… This is a system of calculated dehumanization. …

It’s just one of many “necessary evils” hardy Zionists* are willing to do for the greater glory of “Jewish State”.
_________________
(*The less-hardy “liberal Zionist” types just “hold their noses” and offer support.)

Miriam
November 22, 2017, 3:00 pm

Mebbe the israeli govt deportation dept should consider Cote D’Ivoire where they’ve been very busy collecting local conversions? (& Uganda had similar story) –here’s a current FORWARD piece on ongoing long planned efforts to “convert” despite israeli aversion to such nefariousness going in their apartheid state by their dear evangelical ‘friends’.
http://forward.com/fast-forward/388191/in-cote-divoire-a-jewish-community-is-born/

Nathan
November 22, 2017, 2:59 pm

Ossinev – I understand that a book about the Jewish people is for you fiction, but you regard the wikipedia website as a serious source. You seem to be quite a serious intellectual. Well, anyway, I assume that you didn’t even read the wikipedia website too carefully. The very first line tells us: “This article is about the Jewish religion. For consideration of ethnic, historic and cultural aspects of the Jewish identity, see Jews”. In short, there is the religion of Jews (Judaism), but there is also history and ethnicity of the Jews (just as there is the history and the ethnicity of the Italians, and the Irish, and the Norwegians, etc, etc).

You don’t really understand too much about the Jews. You’d be surprised to find out that, indeed, most Jews don’t practice Judaism. It’s not even “all of a sudden”. You might want to check out the “History of the Jewish People” in the library after all. The Jews are an ancient people. The Jews created a religion called Judaism. I understand that this might be just a bit too complicated, but try to stay focused: A Jew is a member of the Jewish people even if he doesn’t practice the Jewish religion.

Notice the word “Judaism”. The suffix “-ism” means that it’s an abstract concept. The “Juda-” part of the word is derived from the ancient tribe (nation, ethnicity) of Judah. So, Judaism is an abstract concept (a religion) of the people of Judah (i.e the Jews).

eljay
November 22, 2017, 2:15 pm

|| Maghlawatan: … I would be surprised if Israel lasted to 150. … ||

Ye of little faith! Zionist true-believers know for a fact that the “Jewish State” will last a Thousand Years. The really crazy optimistic ones claim that it will last Forever.

eljay
November 22, 2017, 2:11 pm

… Harris said that’s when he learned the lesson about his “Jewish duty”:

Richard Nixon was not a terribly popular president among American Jews. Many proudly distanced themselves from Richard Nixon. But for those who cared about Israel in 1973, the question was not whether he was popular or not, but would he do the right thing or not. In the end he did. In the end, Israel went on to win an extraordinary military victory. As a young man in my 20’s at the time, I learned my lesson in advocacy. I may vote this way or that way. That is my gift in America. But when I’m on Jewish duty, AJC duty, our job is to represent our interest to whoever sits in the White House, whoever controls the Congress and the key committees, whoever the decision makers might be that will affect the fate of those matters of greatest concern to us.

Yet another Zionist anti-Semitically conflates Israel with all Jews and all Jews with Israel.

Why do Zionists hate Jews so much?

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 1:57 pm

“would you decide that its better to return land even if some of the people who get land don’t deserve it?”

As I’m sure you know “Jack Green” the entire human genome has been mapped. Would you please tell us which particular sequences, on which strands, indicate land rights in Palestine? (let alone Jewishness)
If you Google “DNA land rights in Palestine” you may even get a convenient chart. With a plat map, and a telephone app.

amigo
November 22, 2017, 1:53 pm

And Zionists ask “Why do they hate us so much”.

If this guy was a citizen of Ireland and spent most of his time advocating for a rogue, law breaking , Apartheid and criminal regime such as Israel , he would find it hard to receive a welcome anywhere.

This guy disgusts me.

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 1:52 pm

“What if it were impossible to say…/… land don’t deserve it?”

Shorter “Jack Green”: ‘What’s the use of being Jewish if you don’t get anything out of it? And besides you owe us!’

Sibiriak
November 22, 2017, 1:20 pm

Keith: …the very notion of Russia interfering in “our democracy” is worse than a sick joke insofar as it lends legitimacy to anti-Russian hostility and censorship of the alternative media.
———————————————————–

Update:

Google plans to ‘de-rank’ Russia Today and Sputnik to combat misinformation

Eric Schmidt, the chief executive of Google’s parent company Alphabet, has said the search engine is preparing to take action against state-run Russian news agencies, including Russia Today and Sputnik, which are accused of spreading propaganda by US intelligence agencies.

[…]Google has faced criticism for promoting the two news sites by including them in its Google News service – a curated list of legitimate news sites – as well as other algorithmic services that select and promote news.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/21/google-de-rank-russia-today-sputnik-combat-misinformation-alphabet-chief-executive-eric-schmidt

Of course, other sites such as AlterNet have complained about being “de-ranked” by Google, so this is not just about Russian sites, it’s about all alternative media, as Keith points out.

And let’s not forget Google’s close ties to the U.S. State Department, it’s activities in support of destabilization and war in Syria, it’s funding of Crowdstrike (the firm connected to the pro-war, pro-NATO expansion, anti-Russian Atlantic Council which unsurprisingly claimed without evidence that Russia was behind the DNC hacking) and so on.

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 1:18 pm

“My plan which is not about to be implemented is the 2 state solution as envisioned by the Geneva Initiative”

Yeah. For lack of Palestinian support, no doubt.

Maghlawatan
November 22, 2017, 1:11 pm

Israel is 70. The Crusader state in the Levant in the early middle ages covered the same ground and lasted over twice Israel’s age. It failed when it was abandoned by the west and trade fell off. I would be surprised if Israel lasted to 150. Trump is irrelevant. What counts is what is happening in the heads of Israelis.

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 1:10 pm

“But if you look through my archives, you will see that I have consistently argued that, if “self-determination” makes any sense at all, it can only be the right of all the legitimate residents of a territory.” “RoHa”

Might we say that ‘legitimate residence’ is a prerequisite of ‘self-determination’?
Usually, in determining legitimate residence, the claims of people who were, you know, actually living there, trump those of (ROTFLMSJAO) “DNA evidence”.

(And no, you don’t lose your legitimate residence when you are chased out by the Zionists, either)

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 12:58 pm

“Sure Jon S, which is why you are giving up your illegal squat in Beersheba…”

Dear old Beersheba

Citizen
November 22, 2017, 12:52 pm

“The question is whether the logic and spirit of support for the Jewish state must lead to alliance with other ethnic nationalisms, contradictory to the interests of Jews outside of Israel.”

Yes, the rest of us, for example goy US taxpayers, are just chopped liver. That’s 98% of American population.

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 12:50 pm

“Phil , do you know of any Palestinians who support the concept of a binational state? Such support would be a significant development.”

Well lookit this, already wouldja? “Jon s” is suddenly concerned with what Palestinians “support a concept of”? That never seemed to bother Israelis before.

I’ll tell you what, “Jon s”, if those Palestinians (who never did know what was best for themselves) don’t want a “bi-national state” in which they have full rights, well, you Israelis just go ahead and impose it on them!

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 12:40 pm

” if i were trying to predict the future”

“yonah”, sweetheart, you can’t even predict the present. And your predictions about the past are always way off, too.

NorthCascadian
November 22, 2017, 12:37 pm

Where is the break away Jewish movement of Rabbis that reject Zionism? Is Nuturei Karta the only one?

Mooser
November 22, 2017, 12:33 pm

” the “exterminated” population doubles or triples and its income improves most when under the “genocidal” regime!”

So the Zionists hold out the ‘hope’ and the ‘promise’ of a genocide they can’t accomplish (except in announced intent, and that’s what matters) to encourage the Jewish population. That ought to work as a long term-solution.

eljay
November 22, 2017, 12:09 pm

|| Citizen: Just look at that photo–how could you not trust that guy? … ||

Hello, Newman!

Annie Robbins
November 22, 2017, 12:00 pm

israeli innovation? “The oldest documentary evidence of male circumcision comes from ancient Egypt.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_male_circumcision

speaking of ritual, has there ever been even one pro israel poster/troll here who has not mockingly suggested we give up our computers and cell phones reminding us about intel chips etc etc?? some original whataboutery please!

John O
November 22, 2017, 11:50 am

Good question, Jerry.

Personally, I would have difficulty in boycotting American products, because the USA exports almost nothing that I want to buy and therefore am in a position to boycott – my car, my home furnishings and appliances, my food, my clothes, my camera equipment, my smartphone and TV: all European or Asian.

I have American software (Microsoft, Corel, Adobe), but my hardware is again European or Asian.

So, after taking a basic inventory of my home, I’m left with the GPS I use when walking in the countryside and my guitar strings (the guitar itself being made in Ireland).

There are big-ticket items of course: the planes I fly on occasionally; some of my country’s defence equipment. But these items are not in my control, so are among the things more suitable for divestment and sanctions, which require action at a community and/or governmental level.

Which leaves a cultural boycott, implying taking action against individuals, notably artists, some of whom are likely to share my views. So, should I not have gone yesterday to see the divine Rhiannon Giddens, whose music explores the African-American experience so powerfully? Should I have not seen the National Theatre’s production of Stephen Sondheim’s masterpiece “Follies” last week?

There are, of course, some American artists I could boycott for their political views, but I’d sooner have root-canal work without anaesthetic than listen to Ted Nugent, and it didn’t take knowledge of his views to convince me that he isn’t worth listening to.

Citizen
November 22, 2017, 11:24 am

Documentation in JFK library shows clearly that JFK was pushing Israel hard to stop it from getting the bomb–at the time he was murdered. Who benefits (the most)?

CigarGod
November 22, 2017, 10:55 am

Since 70% of the worlds men are not circumcised, I guess we can do just fine without the Israeli innovation of Male Genital Mutilation.

Elizabeth Block
November 22, 2017, 10:54 am

NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE
NEVER AGAIN BY ANYONE

Somebody has forgotten what it means to be Jewish, and it isn’t Tamar Zandberg.

eljay
November 22, 2017, 10:10 am

… Zionism is a political ideology that, in promoting the belief that Jewish welfare depends upon a Jewish state erases Palestinian rights, especially to self-determination. …

The “belief that Jewish welfare depends up on a Jewish State” puts a pretty face on the truer – but much uglier – belief that the religion-based identity of Jewish comprises a right to a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine.

The ugliness that is Jewish supremacism not only erases Palestinian rights but – like all forms of (state-sanctioned) supremacism – actively undermines international laws and human rights and the protections they are meant to afford all people including Jews.

Ossinev
November 22, 2017, 9:31 am

@Nathan
“You can take a walk over to the nearest library, and there you’ll find a book entitled “The History of the Jewish People”

I`ll probably find a copy of the “protocols of the Elders of Zion” in the same library. I am a non fiction buff myself but do like the occasional fiction read. It would be interesting to compare the two ie works of fiction.
“Judaism is an abstract idea. Hence, it is not a group of human beings that see themselves as sharing some common heritage or descent”
You are spinning rapidly to the point where you will disappear up your own rear end.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism

So Jewish “people” all of a sudden don`t practice Judaism ?

“Your use of the term Judaism as if it is a person is manipulative and dishonest”
Sob sob sob sob sob. Presumably my use of the terms Christianity,Islam,Hinduism is fine though because they are not” people” whereas the non Judaistic Jews are.

eljay
November 22, 2017, 8:23 am

|| asherpat: Israel’s must be the most incompetent “genocide” in history! … ||

The “Jewish State” may not be good at genocide, but it’s quite adept at terrorism, ethnic cleansing, theft, military occupation, colonialism, destruction, torture and murder.

You gotta give credit where credit is due.

eljay
November 22, 2017, 7:34 am

|| Nathan: … the Jews are a people. You can take a walk over to the nearest library, and there you’ll find a book entitled “The History of the Jewish People”. … ||

Toronto Maple Leafs fans are a nation. You can open up your favourite browser, and there you’ll find a website entitled “Leafs Nation”.

|| … there is a people called the Jewish people, and this is the people that founded the State of Israel. … ||

There are people throughout the world – citizens of homelands all over the world – who choose to acquire / hold the religion-based identity of Jewish, and it is a sub-set of these people who used terrorism and ethnic cleansing to established in geographic Palestine a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” that has spent roughly 70 years stealing, occupying and colonizing territory outside of its / Partition borders, committing (war) crimes and flouting international laws.

eljay
November 22, 2017, 7:25 am

|| Jerry Hirsch: If the U. S. is the ring leader behind continual war throughout the world, then we should BDS America now!!! ||

We probably should. If there’s one thing we know for certain it’s that the U.S. – just like “shared common values” Israel – is far from being a “moral beacon” and “light unto the nations” state.

Ossinev
November 22, 2017, 7:19 am

Please don`t forget the victims in all of this – no silly not the “cancerous” infiltrators no the poor long suffering Jewish Israelis.

Ossinev
November 22, 2017, 7:09 am

On the positive side Zioland has its elite disaster relief PR units on 24/7 standby to respond to humanitarian crises worldwide (even if they are told they are not needed) so if Rwanda and / or Uganda is struck by earthquakes the true caring sharing loving face of Zionist Judaism will be on display for all to see.

BTW Will these deportees need to have identification symbols on their clothing as they are rounded up and forced into the cattle trucks – sorry that should be forced onto the planes.
Just wondering.

Kay24
November 22, 2017, 6:11 am

No surprise here. Jared Kushner (the so called miracle worker who would be bringing peace in the ME), is being investigated by Robert Mueller for doing the zionist’s dirty work.
Honest broker eh?

US investigator Mueller said probing Kushner over bid to help Israel nix UN vote
Special counsel’s team seeking information about overtures Kushner made to foreign leaders to thwart anti-settlement Security Council resolution in December, WSJ reports

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-investigator-mueller-probing-kushners-contacts-with-israelis-report/

RoHa
November 22, 2017, 3:36 am

” an existential threat if left-wing denial of our national identity as a Jewish people is normalized. ”

Does this mean that if some left-winger “denies their national identity as a Jewish people”, Jews will cease to exist? If so, it is patently false. I’ve done that several times, but there still seem to be Jews around.

(Look, Mooser! I didn’t make a joke about Kierkegaard, Heidegger, or Sartre.)

“Or that dismissing the fact of our people’s historical origins in and enduring connection to our homeland is inherently anti-Semitic.”

How is that anti-Semitic? Can anyone explain?

asherpat
November 22, 2017, 2:39 am

Israel’s must be the most incompetent “genocide” in history! the “exterminated” population doubles or triples and its income improves most when under the “genocidal” regime!

Brewer
November 22, 2017, 1:24 am

Jack.
The “crime” you refer to is regarded by the foremost Historian of Israel as a myth. Did you not read the words of Israel Bartal, Avraham Harman Professor of Jewish History, former Dean of the Faculty of Humanities at Hebrew University and the chair of the Historical Society of Israel.
I shall put them in bold type this time:
“Although the myth of an exile from the Jewish homeland (Palestine) does exist in popular Israeli culture, it is negligible in serious Jewish historical discussions. Important groups in the Jewish national movement expressed reservations regarding this myth or denied it completely…….”
Above you state:
“There were earlier expulsions”
– which indicates that you do not rely on the mythical Roman expulsion. I asked you to provide evidence of these but you have ignored my question – among many others.

A terrible crime has indeed been committed however and the victims are readily identifiable. It began in 1948 and was achieved by massacre and rape:

Ari Shavit: According to your new findings, how many cases of Israeli rape were there in 1948?

Benny Morris: About a dozen. In Acre four soldiers raped a girl and murdered her and her father. In Jaffa, soldiers of the Kiryati Brigade raped one girl and tried to rape several more. At Hunin, which is in the Galilee, two girls were raped and then murdered. There were one or two cases of rape at Tantura, south of Haifa. There was one case of rape at Qula, in the center of the country. At the village of Abu Shusha, near Kibbutz Gezer [in the Ramle area] there were four female prisoners, one of whom was raped a number of times. And there were other cases. Usually more than one soldier was involved. Usually there were one or two Palestinian girls. In a large proportion of the cases the event ended with murder. Because neither the victims nor the rapists liked to report these events, we have to assume that the dozen cases of rape that were reported, which I found, are not the whole story. They are just the tip of the iceberg.

Ari Shavit: According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were perpetrated in 1948?

Benny Morris: Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field – they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village – she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved.

The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod (250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram [in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion. That can’t be chance. It’s a pattern.

http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

A million people (most likely the descendants of Jews) were driven off their land at gunpoint in 1948 and 1967. There is no dispute about that and the list of massacres is growing. Tantura has been confirmed.

Perhaps you might like to explain to me on what rational basis you can possibly assert that the rights of descendants, a hundred generations removed from a mythical expulsion, should take precedence over the rights of a populace expelled within living memory.

Marnie
November 22, 2017, 12:31 am

“But I get what you’re saying. Individual boycotts are a waste of time and it makes more sense for the West simply to do to Israel what it has done to other countries:
– impose harsh economic sanctions;
– destroy its infrastructure (while, of course, taking great care to minimize “collateral damage”); and
– destabilize its government prior to imposing regime change.”

Israel is a rogue state in violation of numerous UN treaties and has committed innumerable war crimes going all the way back to 1947-48.
I think that israel in fact loves the BDS movement because it’s a distraction from what they have gotten away with for 100 years, and it isn’t hurting them terribly. If they make a lot of noise about it, scream antisemitism 24/7 and get Emet and co to do the say, and they get the u.s. to make laws against it, all the while they continue to steal more land and murder more palestinians.

Marnie
November 22, 2017, 12:08 am

“Marnie, why don’t Jews qualify as Israelis? And there are “nazi officials”?

Never said they didn’t. I made a point of recognizing the israelis that aren’t jews – do you have a problem with conversation that isn’t always about you? How can you be so obtuse?

I wouldn’t consider Nick Cave a hero; he’s just another musician I’ve never heard of. I’d respect him though.

The only heros here are Palestinians.

Kathleen
November 21, 2017, 11:53 pm

Sounds like it will be an honest discussion, Goodman moderating, she is one of the best, No nonsense, digs right down to the roots of an issue. Hopefully New School does not back down.

Jerry Hirsch
November 21, 2017, 11:45 pm

If the U. S. is the ring leader behind continual war throughout the world, then we should BDS America now!!!

yonah fredman
November 21, 2017, 9:25 pm

pabelmont- I actually agree that the rhetoric is overheated, but I wonder what this surrender by israel will look like and rather than mandela in south africa, i think of the helicopter off of the embassy grounds in south vietnam and this type of defeat is what you envision for israel, and that i suppose is also overheated rhetoric.

Henry Norr
November 21, 2017, 8:59 pm

Jonathan Ofir writes of this Ron Brummer: “He’s a professional propagandist. He wouldn’t want to strengthen the BDS. But his point is, no doubt inadvertently, making a strong point for it…”

His comments are certainly welcome, in that they confirm the obvious truth about the Israeli economy and should serve to undermine the vacuous arguments for a “selective boycott” of just the settlements. But this assessment of his motives seems to me to leave out an important dimension: in addition to being a propagandist, he is also a fundraiser, and as such he has an interest in exaggerating the efficacy of BDS, on the assumption that the more he can frighten his audience of wealthy Zionists, the more bucks they’ll kick in.

In fact, that’s something both sides have in common: the Israelis and their American supporters, on the one hand, and proponents of BDS (among whom I include myself) on the other, have a stake in portraying it as a mighty movement on the brink of destroying the Jewish state. Would it were so….

Jack Green
November 21, 2017, 8:39 pm

Brewer

What if it were impossible to say for sure which people deserved land?

Suppose there was history, but no exact records, & DNA that showed mixture.

Would you decide that a terrible crime had been committed, but we’re not going to return land , because we might give land to someone who might not deserve it
Or
would you decide that its better to return land even if some of the people who get land don’t deserve it?

Elizabeth Block
November 21, 2017, 8:21 pm

I’ve got a button that says NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE, and below it one that says NEVER AGAIN BY ANYONE.

Remember the St Louis?
Remember the Canadian cabinet minister who said of Jews (during WW II) “None is too many”?

Is Israel still a Jewish state, or just an Israeli state?

JWalters
November 21, 2017, 7:55 pm

The Zionists are a classic example of the boy who cried “Wolf!” Their endless, baseless, mindless cries of “Anti-Semitism!” are becoming background noise to the honest discussion. At some point they deserve to be hit with an irrefutable libel suit.

JWalters
November 21, 2017, 7:48 pm

Thank you for that parallel case. Ironically, organized religion can get captured by pathological money-grubbers. They terrify and abuse children as a standard method of keeping control. This abuse of religion and people’s trust, especially children’s, is a vile evil, if the term “evil” is to have any meaning.

JWalters
November 21, 2017, 7:30 pm

That horse is far from dead. It can’t be beat too much.

An astounding survey of its recent devastation, with mind-boggling numbers, is here.
“America’s Renegade Warfare”
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/11/16/americas-renegade-warfare

Setting up its next target zone for utterly needless war and suffering (Africa) is described here.
“The Ever-Expanding ‘War on Terror’”
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/11/14/the-ever-expanding-war-on-terror

pabelmont
November 21, 2017, 7:02 pm

I think I could buy a PC that does not have Intel parts and I already use Linux/Ubuntu. Probably turn out that the HD or some other replaceable part should be boycotted, but still * * *.

The hard thing, always, is to make the boycotting action KNOWN so as to have some effect on others. I guess I could get a T-shirt that says “I BOYCOTT Israel and all companies that support the occupation or Israel’s wars of aggression.” Leave it to my “readers” (does anyone really “read” other people’s T-shirts?) to decide which companies I boycott. Lockheed, certainly, tho I had precious little business with them last quarter * * *.

Nathan
November 21, 2017, 6:50 pm

Yes, Ossinev, Judaism is a religion. However, the Jews are a people. You can take a walk over to the nearest library, and there you’ll find a book entitled “The History of the Jewish People”. There should also be a book entitled “The History of the Russian People” and a book entitled “The History of the English People” (and the list goes on and on). You won’t find a book entitled “The History of the Protestant People”. Indeed, there is no such people (nation). However, there is a people called the Jewish people, and this is the people that founded the State of Israel.

Judaism is an abstract idea. Hence, it is not a group of human beings that see themselves as sharing some common heritage or descent. An abstract idea does not found a state or till the soil. Your use of the term Judaism as if it is a person is manipulative and dishonest.

pabelmont
November 21, 2017, 6:23 pm

Jeremy Burton writes: “we face an existential threat if left-wing denial of our national identity as a Jewish people is normalized. ”

Who’s he mean by “we”? He evidently has two groups in mind: [1] first, he is thinking of himself and his friends (the American Zios), that is, the folks who very well might feel bad and even, just perhaps, also feel threatened in some sense, even “existentially so, by criticism of Israel and one of its raisons d’etre; and [2] second, he is pretending to speak for all American Jews, the folks he wants his listeners to suppose feel threatened.

He like so many Zios arrogates to speak for all American Jews. The nerve! The very nerve! Makes me feel existentially threatened to be in the same sentence in the mouth of such a guy!

Well, Jeremy, no matter how much you try, you do not speak for me. Or a lot of others. And WE do not feel threatened by left or right suggesting that there’s something phony about any self-proclaimed (sorry, soi-disant) Jewish nation. Got that, Jeremy?

Citizen
November 21, 2017, 6:16 pm

What do members of BlackLivesMatter who are US taxpayers say about this issue? What does the congressional Black Caucus say about it? Anybody?

RoHa
November 21, 2017, 5:43 pm

That was information, not criticism. Since you have not been on MW very long, I don’t expect you to remember every comment that has been made (Mooser can), and trekking through all the archives would take longer than a couple of games of chess.

But if you look through my archives, you will see that I have consistently argued that, if “self-determination” makes any sense at all, it can only be the right of all the legitimate residents of a territory. It is not a right of “nations”/ethnic group/religious groups/ Justin Bieber fans/stamp collectors/left-handed Latvian lesbian spokeshavers’ apprentices.

You will see that I have added, though with little discussion, that it is not an absolute right.

You will see that I have pointed out that “nation” is an ambiguous term, that there are at least three concepts of “nation”, and that principles which apply to one concept do not apply to the others. I have shown that the Finns are not the same sort of nation as the Jews, who barely count as any sort of nation at all, so that even if nations like the Finns had a right to sd (and they don’t) the Jews still would not qualify.

And you will see that I have never said the the Palestinians are entitled to a state of their own.

As to your historical references, the fact that some “national” groups have established a state, and that other want to, does not show that national groups are entitled to do so, any more than the fact that I have eaten my neighbour’s doughnut shows that people are entitled to eat their neighbours doughnuts.

Kaisa of Finland
November 21, 2017, 5:29 pm

Sorry, I am confused.. Who’s DNA are we talking about here?? What did the DNA tests of the Palestinians show?? How close “ancestral connection” to “the land” did they have?? I want to see their results!!

just
November 21, 2017, 5:11 pm

Here’s some more Israeli ethnic cleansing:

“Hundreds of Palestinians on the brink of expulsion: ‘We just want to live’

Three hundred Palestinians have been ordered to leave their homes and take with them all their belongings within the next eight days. Where are they supposed to go? The military order provides no answers. In the meantime, they wait for the rain that refuses to come. …”

Much more @ https://972mag.com/hundreds-of-palestinians-on-the-brink-of-expulsion-we-just-want-to-live/130818/

“Fifty faces of occupation

A new exhibit by B’Tselem marks 50 years of occupation with portraits of 50 Palestinians born in the occupied territories, who have never known a day of freedom in their lives. …”

https://972mag.com/fifty-faces-of-the-occupation/130859/

“No institution is safe from the corrupting power of occupation

The persecution of Breaking the Silence’s spokesperson is further proof that the state’s investigative bodies are not only deeply politicized, they are simply uninterested in doing their job. …”

https://972mag.com/no-institution-is-safe-from-the-corrupting-power-of-occupation/130841/

Thank you, Chloé Benoist.

amigo
November 21, 2017, 4:59 pm

” If you’ve read my comments and understood them you should know that I actively oppose the occupation and the settlements and therefore I oppose any notion of a greater Israel.Jon S

Sure Jon S, which is why you are giving up your illegal squat in Beersheba –which is occupied Palestine, as it is outside Israel,s self declared borders of 1948.

Your no different than those I listed , you just hide behind a false claim of being a peacenik.Some of the others are at least up front about their intentions.

As to my list being Mc Carthyite , well I hope that is all I ever get accused of ,Better than being an apologist for an Apartheid and Colonialist criminal regime.Now that is truly distasteful.

biggerjake
November 21, 2017, 4:52 pm

Without anti-Semitism both Israel and the ADL are just relics of a different time. Both of them NEED anti-Semitism to justify their existence.

From Yaron London of Israel’s channel 10:

“To do the Netanyahu government justice, let me qualify my statement by saying that all forms of Zionism hold the perception that a certain extent of anti-Semitism benefits the Zionist enterprise,”

“it would be good to have some anti-Semitism in America. Not serious anti-Semitism, not pogroms, not persecutions that will empty America from its Jews, as we need them there, but just a taste of this pungent stuff, so that we can restore our faith in Zionism.”

That is why they find it under every bush, under every rock,,, everywhere. If it doesn’t exist, they have to invent it or they will become irrelevant.

jon s
November 21, 2017, 4:22 pm

Nathan has a good point. It looks like Mr Shulman -and Phil- uses the term “binational state ” as if it’s synonymous with “one state”.
Phil , do you know of any Palestinians who support the concept of a binational state? Such support would be a significant development.

jon s
November 21, 2017, 4:09 pm

amigo,
I don’t know why you refer to me as working for “greater Israel”. If you’ve read my comments and understood them you should know that I actively oppose the occupation and the settlements and therefore I oppose any notion of “Greater Israel”.
As to non-Jewish citizens, of course all citizens should enjoy equal rights. A basic democratic principle.
Also, amigo, your McCarthyite list-making , lumping together other commenters who may have little in common, is distasteful.

Mooser
November 21, 2017, 3:45 pm

” Geneticists are quite accepting of the evidence of ancestral descent imprinted in DNA.”

And “geneticists” are the ones who determine who gets what land, and how they act on it?

Vera Gottlieb
November 21, 2017, 3:42 pm

Is President Rivlin one of the very FEW sane ones in israel???