Post-post-racial (Jewish identity of state of Israel is ‘very important’ to Obama administration)

How can you keep kidding yourself that this administration is going to do anything to improve the Israel/Palestine situation? This administration’s position is actually two times worse than the Clinton parameters (which did not mention Jewish identity and did not commit to "developments on the ground"), and one time worse than the Bush position (which did not mention Jewish identity, but did recognize developments on the ground).

How do we get closer to peace while at the same time tilting even further towards the Israelis? We are leaving it to the Russians to call for more even-handedness?

Haaretz: US fails to gain support from other members of the Quartet for Israel’s "settlement freeze":

At the crux of the Russian objections were two points that were very important to the U.S. administration: the Jewish identity of the State of Israel, and that the future border between Israel and the Palestinians would reflect developments on the ground.

About Bruce Wolman

Bruce Wolman is a citizen journalist who has lived in Norway and the Washington area.
Posted in Israel Lobby, Israel/Palestine, US Politics

{ 68 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. How do we get closer to peace while at the same time tilting even further towards the Israelis?

    How can we possibly tilt any further towards the Israelis?

    • potsherd says:

      Given that most Israelis despise Obama for being “anti-Israel” and despise J Street for being “anti-Israel”, it would seem there is a lot further they can go.

      We haven’t even nuked Iran yet!

      • If you could find an honest one they’d admit they don’t really believe either. they’re employing the same ‘technique’ as republicans screaming ‘liberal media’ at everything, they’re successfully setting the boundary for what being ‘anti Israel’ entails, namely, fawning adoration.

    • potsherd says:

      Here is one very important touchstone:

      President Barack Obama is delaying moving the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.

      A 1995 U.S. law recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and ordered that the embassy be relocated there. But the law also permits the president to delay the move for six-month periods, based on national security grounds.

      Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush invoked the clause during their presidencies.

      Obama notified Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton of his decision on Thursday. He first delayed moving the embassy in June.

      Because of this anti-Obama pressure from Israel, Obama is going to be lobbied real hard to finally make this embassy move. “What harm will it do?” The day he does, we’ll know it’s all over.

      • yonira says:

        Its a horrible idea to move the embassy.

      • Shafiq says:

        I’m glad we’re moving away from an era where US law equals International Law…for some reason, I don’t see Israeli lobbying having much influence in China.

      • SEE: “Brownback wants to remove the waiver in embassy law”
        By Eric Fingerhut · November 3, 2009
        (excerpt) Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kansas) is planning to introduce legislation today or tomorrow that would remove the presidential waiver from the law calling for the U.S. Embassy to be moved from Tel Aviv to Jersualem. He announced his sponsorship of the Jersualem Embassy Relocation Act of 2009 on Tuesday afternoon at a Capitol Hill meeting of the Jerusalem Conference.
        The legislation would call on the State Department to move the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and get rid of the waiver in the 1995 Jerusalem Embassy Law that every president since then has renewed every six months….
        SOURCE – link to blogs.jta.org

  2. Chaos4700 says:

    Controversial a premise though it might be, but I suspect part of the problem is that Obama doesn’t have the perspective we might infer for the first black President of the US, because he wasn’t actually raised in African American culture. I’m not saying he had it easy, with the situation he grew up in, but I think it’s also fair to say that the average African American family has it a lot harder than he ever had.

    Which, unfortunately, means in short he only ends up playing lip service to the whole “post-racial” idea — as evidenced by the actual policy of his Administration — rather than having any sort of genuine passion or engagement in issues concerning racial discrimination.

    • Citizen says:

      Why limit your comment to “the average African American family?”
      How old was Obama when he graduated college? How old when he graduated law school? Does not this suggest to you that it’s fair to say the average white American family
      has it a lot harder than he ever had? What planet do you live on? And, how many of them graduate from the higher schools he attended?

      • I wonder about the average white applicant to Harvard Law School. What was Obama’s LSAT score?

        • Citizen says:

          Apparently our courageous MSM can not find out the answer as to Obama or his wife:
          link to kids-iq-tests.com

          My own LSAT score got me into law school (and with a merit scholarship-not an affirmative action version); since I know my own faults and considerable mental
          weaknesses, it would be interesting to compare. I had to furnish my scores and credentials for any job I ever got after graduation. I guess application for POTUS
          does not have such requirements.

        • Has Obama ever practiced law? I know he had a summer job, where he probably went to lots of cocktail parties and of course met his wife.

        • Citizen says:

          According to CNN Obama revealed he was a bad student in high school and at Oxidental, then “somehow” got to Columbia where he worked harder but was “just average”. Harvard does have affirmative action programs to build diversity and has even put students who are not in the top 10% on law review to build diversity. He may be the shining example for aff action– attending Harvard alone does not mean he is smart. Bush and Gore both went to Harvard and when their transcripts were released they were both very poor students. In fact, Bush’s grades were a wee bit better than Gores. I just would like full disclosure. The rumors about Michelle getting to Princeton are similar, we just need full disclosure. Why are Obama’s academic records a state secret? Is this not a new page US political history?

        • Citizen says:

          The answer is NO in the sense of holding a job as an attorney purely in the legal practice arena. He was a community organizer–everything he worked at after law school was not the USA practice of adversarial law as a non-political
          attorney practitioner.

        • potsherd says:

          I heard a comment once, not first-hand, that colleagues of Obama at law school said he never went to committee meetings or departmental activities or the sort of things that professor-types normally do in their course of their employment. Minimal effort. Suggests to me, if so, that the appointment was a placeholder, CV-builder for a person whose real ambitions were always in politics, not law.

        • Community organizer=street hustler. Obama had to go to law school because as a Columbia political science major he was unempoyable. Then at his summer job at a big law firm, the golden boy saw what those lawyers actually do: 200 page bond indentures, 70 hour weeks, etc., so organizing the community (or whatever) began to look pretty sweet. He obviously made the right choice-law firms have had thousands of layoffs recently. Many are following him into government-our only growth industry.

        • MRW says:

          Obama graduated number one in his Harvard class.

        • MRW says:

          potsherd,

          I heard a comment once, not first-hand, that colleagues of Obama at law school said he never went to committee meetings or departmental activities or the sort of things that professor-types normally do in their course of their employment.

          That’s bullshit. He was the first black President of the Harvard Law Review. He graduated first in his class.
          =========================

          For whomever asked elsewhere: Obama taught Constitutional Law at the Univ of Chicago.

        • MRW says:

          America First,

          You have it all mixed up about Obama. ‘Community organizer’ isn’t something you should ever sneer at; it is one helluva skill to have, and he was trained by one of the best of them. Those skills are what got him the presidency. His mother instilled that sense of public service in him. And if you’re doing it properly, it’s about 100-120 hours/week of work for little pay.

          He was offered all sorts of fancy NYC and DC jobs and clerkships after graduating #1 in his class. His Harvard professors confirmed all this when he first announced his candidacy. The law school dean called him one of the brightest students he’d ever met.

        • potsherd says:

          MRW – there is absolutely no connection to a person’s class rank and the attitude he will take towards a given job in which he might not be interested.

          Try not to let the Obama-worship blind you to reality.

        • MRW says:

          Citizen,

          He was a community organizer–everything he worked at after law school was not the USA practice of adversarial law as a non-political
          attorney practitioner.

          B.S. He worked in the same law firm as Michelle. That’s where he met her. She was his boss initially. and it was a swanky, expensive Chicago firm.
          ————————————

          Hey, you guys, you’re drinking all the tea-bagger kool-aid about community organizers without knowing one iota about what it entails. It’s isn’t hanging out on the corner with a beer in a bag talking about how things oughta be. It’s like being politician and lawyer and guerilla warrior all wrapped into one for people who have no voice and no money and no access to power, and if you’re effective at it, you are a powerful leader. He learned the Saul Alinsky method.

        • MRW says:

          potsherd,

          I dont have Obama worship. I have fact worship. He went to law school IN ORDER to be a more effective community organizer. BECAUSE of it. And he supplemented his income and community organizer work when he got out by working in a Chi-town law office and later teaching as an adjunct constitutional law professor before going into politics.

        • MRW says:

          more…

          He first became a community organizer after Columbia, not Harvard. He doesn’t have a Columbia law degree. It’s from Harvard.

        • potsherd says:

          So? How does any of this deny the report that he was essentially phoning in the law teaching job and using it as a stepping stone to other things?

        • MRW says:

          He was a community organizer–everything he worked at after law school was not the USA practice of adversarial law as a non-political
          attorney practitioner.

          He got serious about his future and his education toward the end of Occidental College after his mother yelled at him. He made it into Columbia, graduated and worked in NYC for a while, then took the community organizer job in Chicago.

          He worked as a community organizer in Chicago until he realized he couldn’t do anything more to help the people he was working with; he decided to get a law degree in order to be more effective. He applied to Harvard. He had no intention of taking a cushy east-coast law firm job or a Supreme Court clerkship, which he was offered.

          He returned to Chicago, and went back to what he was doing: community organizing.

          Phoning in the law teaching job? I hardly think that the U of C would keep someone like that on their staff if that’s what it was.
          ========================

          From very early on in his candidacy, the Zios were gunning for him. Edward Said was a friend of Obama’s. I think he may have been one of his teachers at Columbia. I know definitely that’s here he met him; and there’s a semi-famous picture of Michelle and Obama at Ed Said’s dinner table in 1996 when Said was honored at some function there. That lit the Zio hair on fire early on in his campaign.

        • David says:

          “Community organizer=street hustler.”

          Gosh, America First. Thanks for that insightful comment on community organizing. Right in line with Sarah Palin on that one.

          I’m a community organizer. We work our asses off and usually don’t get paid for it. Read a book.

        • David says:

          And just for the record I could care less what Obama was like at law school. Our job is to work to change the goddamn policy, not try to figure out whether Obama’s “black experience” or “lack thereof” is the reason why he isn’t changing the policy.

          Of course, that would require organizing. In communities. But that sounds too much like “street hustling,” eh?

        • You’re right, MRW (and David), I shouldn’t sneer. The way you describe it, the silent majority need our own community organizers. Not that I’m volunteering.

          You know of course the more good things you say about Obama the worse he looks. Bush was a privileged, anti-intellectual, inept moron, easily manipulated by crafty advisors with their own agenda. If Obama is smart and accomplished, what’s his excuse?

        • potsherd says:

          In short, you have no real reason to doubt the anecdote. You just don’t like to see the tarnish on the hero.

          And Edward Said is undoubtedly revolving in his grave.

        • David says:

          No excuses for Obama. This is where our work comes in–we have to organize to change the discourse and to change the policy. It’s a lot of work. What’s our excuse?

        • MRW says:

          potsherd,

          You just don’t like to see the tarnish on the hero.

          No, that isn’t it at all. I didn’t see him as the savior in the first place. What got him elected was mobilized people — he ‘community-organized’ them and that has been firmly established, he set the process up — and as David says, it’s going to be mobilized people who affect the ‘change we need’. Anyone who thinks one benighted guy can roll in and wave a wand for 300 million people and raise them up, so to speak, is missing a screw.

          It’s just too bad he inherited this swamp of an economy because he didn’t get the chance or time to translate the great ‘community-organized’ momentum that got him elected into the internet-based and community government he promised us. He got hit with a CAT 5 economic hurricane, and so did just about everyone in America.

        • MRW says:

          A walk down Memory Lane:

          Here’s the photo of Obama with Said. I made a mistake: it was 1998, not 1996.
          link to electronicintifada.net

          And here’s Gil Ronen in Arutz Sheva going postal over it, circa March 2008, and claiming that Ali Abunimah knows Obama is hiding his anti-Israel stance. This was the putsch from Israel as soon as it realized Obama might have a chance at the presidency so it started it’s regular shit. And looks like it might be succeeding, because everyone — right, left, and progressive — is laying in on him for not saving the country and the world in 46 weeks:
          link to israelnationalnews.com

        • Citizen says:

          MRW, all you said confirms my stance. I am an an attorney; I spent over 30 years in Chicago. You have not clue as to how deep the tea-bagger view has caught hold. You think it’s all astro-turf–it’s not. BTW, MRW, are you an attorney? And did you practice in the Chicago area? We’d like to know.

        • potsherd says:

          Yet you contend that an anecdote showing him in a faintly bad light must be bullshit, just because

        • Todd says:

          I’m not exactly sure what the truth of Obama’s education is. I’ve heard the claim that he graduated at the top of his class from Harvard. I’ve also read the claims that he should have never made it to Columbia or Harvard on his merits, and that he was a good student at Harvard, but not at the top of the class. What is the truth?

        • MRW says:

          Citizen, (Christ, I wish I could find these comments/responses better)

          You wrote

          MRW, all you said confirms my stance. I am an an attorney; I spent over 30 years in Chicago. You have not clue as to how deep the tea-bagger view has caught hold. You think it’s all astro-turf–it’s not. BTW, MRW, are you an attorney? And did you practice in the Chicago area? We’d like to know.

          Citizen, no I do not think the tea-bagging thing is all astro-turf, and yes, I do understand how deep it is, and for the record, as I wrote here well over two years ago, I was a card-carrying right-wing Republican until the last years of Bush’s second term. I was the type who only watched Fox News; on the other hand any, I mean any, Christian Right stuff gives me the bends. I didn’t buy the need for the Iraq war. That broke me. I was one of the virulently anti-Clinton people in the 90s (softened on that one). The only lefty I liked reading, or listening to on public radio, during the 90s and early decade was Jeffrey Blankfort because (1) he has a brain and memory the size of a car, and (2) he prefers the unvarnished truth. I’m here, as much as anything else, because Jeffrey Blankfort contributes to this board; it’s as simple as that. I mean, this guy made sense to me, and got through to me, even when politically we were polar opposites during the 90s.

          But more importantly, I didn’t mean to dismiss you. You have been on this board a long long time, I always read your posts, and you consistently come up with fascinating, probing articles to read (so does potsherd) and you offer points-of-view that I can not only share but respect. Not all of them, but hey, sometimes you want to run my head down the toilet. Both of us tear off responses, at times, we dont think about, or reread…me much more than you. I’m not careful about how I post, and I apologize. I dont take the time, I use mental shorthand stupidly as if everyone would remember everything I wrote. If this were my blog, I would seem a different person; I would be careful. (The really careful responder on Mondoweiss is Shmuel, another guy I love reading. Ditto Danaa.) And as much as I enjoy Mooser, I cannot understand his animus towards you at all.

          The point I wanted to make about community-organizing, which I used to diss a decade ago as some socialista thing, is that about 1.5 years ago, the anti-Obama crowd [the early tea-baggers :-)] went after Obama for being a community-organizer. It was around the time of the ACORN thing surfacing, if I remember correctly. [I spent copious hours at the time investigating all parts of the Obama campaign, statements, background; I was a research hog, but cant remember any details now, just what my bottom-line was. Point being I really went after every Obama detail in order to know, or so I thought.] Community organizing is why the zionists are so effective; in fact, it is the pinnacle of 20th C Jewish social group organizing, and I now believe everyone not only has to learn how it’s done — and it is a learned skill — but needs to adopt it in order to get anything changed in this country. I dont think anything else will work; that’s how much I came to respect it, because it’s grassroots, from the bottom-up. Saul Alinsky wrote a book about it decades ago, with a one-two-three how to do it; he rips off Sun-Tzu and Machiavelli, just for the record. The guy who owns Daily Kos rewrote Alinsky and passed it off as his book a year ago. (I’m being mildly sarcastic.)

          I live in redneck country, and everyone I talked to at the time ridiculed community-organizing because they thought it was connected with this black candidate or black churches, and I found that point-of-view despicable. The history is Jewish, and it is the background of the union movements, the rise of middle class power, and every significant social movement, whether you approved of them or not, during the last century. No, I’m not a lawyer. Only been to Chicago twice, I think.

          As for Obama? I remember in the summer of 2007 when he was at 20% in the polls. His backers wanted to bale, and they were SCREAMING at him to be more passionate, to joint the fray more. He was too cool-headed, they said, too laid-back; they worried that he wouldn’t even make the top three in Iowa. His response was no. I wont. He said, and I think this is a verbatim quote, ”I know how to close. I know how to win in the last quarter.“ So, while the jury is still out with me on Obama, a nagging something in me is ‘wait-and-see’. A late-century and 21C US President is up against extreme internal forces and all he can do is persuade, he can’t rule, he can’t write law, although he does have Executive Orders. I am giving Obama the benefit of the doubt until June 2010 to figure out just how bad it is and where the career non-elected Federal employees have the upper-hand; look what Congress and the Lobby did to his I/P plans last July and August; buried them. Makes me wonder what he’s up against with respect to the banks. BDS. BDS. BDS. Now that’s community-organizing.

        • Citizen says:

          MRW, thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I don’t disagree with anything you say in your comment I am responding to–one thing that arises, is that Obama’s interest in being a “community organizer” is the other side of the coin in many ways of the “tea-baggers.” This raises the question, maybe they both have a common enemy if only they would see it? There are good reasons for the popularity of an ACORN, as there are for a Sarah Palin. I don’t come down totality on one side or the other. So I am one of the many independents, searching for a third way, yet aware of the bankrupt and best-intentions-gone-awry history of political movements conjured up as such for mass media feeding.

        • MRW says:

          Citizen,

          Obama’s interest in being a “community organizer” is the other side of the coin in many ways of the “tea-baggers.”

          I couldn’t agree more. But the Tea-baggers better develop some intelligence that appeals to middle-of-the-road Republicans and Democrats, or they are toast. To say this is a different century is an understatement, and ad hominem attacks on people for being of a certain color or race or religion ain’t gonna cut it. There’s enough bullshit in the policies to make a searing point. And that’s why they need to be properly organized.

      • Mooser says:

        Does not this suggest to you that it’s fair to say the average white American family
        has it a lot harder than he ever had?”

        Oh yeah, I can see that you are firmly enscounced on Planet black-n-white, Citizen.
        Why the hell are you so concerned about any black person not suffering enough?

        Every goddam comment of yours comes down to “Poor me, I’m white, and it’s so hard for me, what with all them minorities taking all the money!”

        Jesus Christ, go back to your tea-party. Let me ask you Citizen, if we don’t get all the Jews to move to Israel, how on earth will we ever break their stranglehold on the American economy and culture. You aren’t suggesting we kill them all, are you?

        Your prejudices will eventually take you to Zionism, and ZIonism cause you love the Jews and Zionism cause you want to get rid of the Jews is pretty much the same thing.
        And BTW, Citizen, Israel is, except for the few American Jews who profit from the arrangement, a net negative for American Jews. After Israel is gone, you can only expect the American Jews to become more influential and active in America, since they won’t have Zionism and Israel sucking their resources and energies. We will [probably make common cause with blacks and other minorities, like we have before. What will you do then, Citizen? Imagine, if you can, the raw primitive energy of America’s Afro-Americans combined with the intelligence and financial resources of the Jews?
        It’ll be all over for you white boys then!
        Now tell me, isn’t Israel starting to look better?

    • yonira says:

      that was a pretty pre-racial statement.

  3. potsherd says:

    That would be ante-racial

  4. Citizen says:

    Citizen, regarding the observation (not by Citizen) that Obama does not represent the average black American’s experience: “Does not this suggest to you that it’s fair to say the average white American family
    has it a lot harder than he ever had?”

    Mooser: ” yeah, I can see that you are firmly enscounced on Planet black-n-white, Citizen.
    Why the hell are you so concerned about any black person not suffering enough?”

    Citizen was responding to a comment that said essentially that Obama’s experience does not represent the average black American’s–Citizen said, he also does not represent the average white American’s experience. Mooser does not address this
    directly; Mooser simply accuses Citizen of saying any black American has not suffered enough. As if Obama is any average black American, or (Citizen’s point) any average white American.

    “Every goddam comment of yours comes down to “Poor me, I’m white, and it’s so hard for me, what with all them minorities taking all the money!””

    Mooser does not reveal his logic here. What do Mooser’s comments come down to?
    I married a shiksa, but you can’t call her that, I fear her, but yet I rule the roost; give
    me freedom because I have a Jewish posse who ride on motorcyles.
    “Jesus Christ, go back to your tea-party. ”
    What does this mean? Is Mooser disparaging the original tea party, or not? He seems to hate everything Citizen says; and Mooser claims something else–what is it?

    “Let me ask you Citizen, if we don’t get all the Jews to move to Israel, how on earth will we ever break their stranglehold on the American economy and culture. You aren’t suggesting we kill them all, are you?”

    Here, Mooser has launched himself off into Never-Never Land; he has concluded that Citizen (by merely suggesting that Obama’s academic rise might be unusual in terms of
    black american, but also in terms of white american), has called for the killing of all jews.

    “Your prejudices will eventually take you to Zionism, and ZIonism cause you love the Jews and Zionism cause you want to get rid of the Jews is pretty much the same thing.”

    So, here Mooser has now gone on (in his crazy head) to imagine in his head that Citizen wants to kill all the jews–

    “And BTW, Citizen, Israel is, except for the few American Jews who profit from the arrangement, a net negative for American Jews.”

    So tell us, Mooser, how the Israel First program in the USA has been a net negative for
    American Jews? Are you suffering from it? How so? (We already know how its been a net positive for zionist Israel.)

    ” After Israel is gone, you can only expect the American Jews to become more influential and active in America, since they won’t have Zionism and Israel sucking their resources and energies. We will [probably make common cause with blacks and other minorities, like we have before. What will you do then, Citizen? Imagine, if you can, the raw primitive energy of America’s Afro-Americans combined with the intelligence and financial resources of the Jews?
    It’ll be all over for you white boys then!”

    Let’s see, you threaten that if American Jews decide to cut off Israel as a rogue nation,
    the affect on the USA will be that American Jews will unite with nonwhites in the USA
    against the whites, even more so than they have done for decades. So, Mooser, you say the goy Americans will lose in a zero sum game because either they support Israel right or wrong, or they end up being the victims of (well-advanced) USA minorities? So, Mooser, what’s new?

    ” tell me, isn’t Israel starting to look better?”

    No. Thanks for sharing, Mooser. You don’t look good either.

    • Citizen says:

      BTW, Mooser, like Obama it took me 30 years to graduate from law school. But I had no affirmative action policy supporting me. And within those 30 years I spent 3 years
      as a US Army grunt. I worked in steel mills to get my education. So, I guess I’m just
      another white racist to you.

      • yonira says:

        racism is based on a persons words and actions

        • Citizen says:

          Yeah right, yonira; what have you contributed here by your statement? I was talking about parsing how anyone get’s through law school in the USA. And you say?

      • MRW says:

        Citizen,

        He didn’t need affirmative action. I remember back in 2005, after his appearance the previous August at the Dem Convention, that his LSAT was 171.

        • I was always under the impression that the LSAC council had a different grading system when Obama took the LSAT.

          But if he did indeed receive what would be the equivalent of a 171… that is pretty amazing.

        • Citizen says:

          What’s missing here is the affirmative action component to the results of the LSAT at the time in question.

    • Certainly any Jewish suffering from Zionism needs to be kept in perspective. Rachel Corrie was treated more harshly by the IDF bulldozer than Norman Finkelstein was by the DePaul appointments committee.

  5. VR says:

    Specifically because of the oppressed, I think it is necessary to identify who Obama is and what he represents. I do not think he cares for other people of color, and I think he is the pinnacle of Neocolonialism –

    OBAMA – THE HIGHEST STAGE OF NEOCOLONIALISM

    You will notice this is circa nov. 2008. In fact, even one of Obama’s campaign directors said bad things that happened to blacks in America was because they “need to pull up their pants,” and Obama went to Africa and ostensibly said the same thing.

    PULL UP YOUR PANTS

    Time to wake up.

  6. Les says:

    Worship of the state of Israel should not be confused with concern for the people of the nation of Israel. Such worshipers have the fervor of the worshipers of Baal.

  7. Chaos4700 says:

    Okay then. Maybe I’ll stay away from controversial statements and stick to having to repeat observational evidence and berate others for dishonesty. Certainly seems like I’m more productive to the conversation when I do that…

  8. jan_gdyn says:

    It’s unbelievable that this is the policy of the Obama team. Really even worse than the Bill Clinton era. Where are the pretesting voices of the Arab League?

    • Chaos4700 says:

      Would we know? Who in the MSM would broadcast them?

      • VR says:

        The answer is little to no one Chaios4700. The same is true of local media, does anyone know anything about the local Muslim community? How about if there are some diaspora Palestinians in your area? No, this is what you get local and national, this is what you get in the news and on “popular” media?

        THE MESSAGE

        And as an added aside –

        TAKE A DRIVE

        • Chaos4700 says:

          About the local Muslim community? Well I do, but it’s not from any news organization. I pretty much have to go and talk to actual Muslims. I suggest more people do the same.

        • Muslims in the United States do tend to largely be anti-war, pro-Palestinian, and believe it or not have a huge variety of view points when it comes to gay rights and abortion.

          Also after Jewish women, Muslim women are the most highly educated group of women in the country.

          From my own personal experience, I’ve found that Muslims tend to have similar opinions on foreign policy (although with different ideas in regards to those opinions) but tend to be really mixed in opinion when it comes to domestic issues like gay marriage, abortion, and on the issue of big government vs smaller government.

          A lot of American Muslims have told me they have no problem with gay marriage because the state shouldn’t be involved in such a private matter, while some Muslims have told me that the Qur’an does not explicitly condemn homosexuality (although many Muslims of course deny this), and then there are many Muslims who believe homosexuality is an outright sin and that gay marriage is just preposterous.

          But the example above, in regards to gay marriage just shows that Muslim opinion and the Muslim bloc vote does not really exist in regards to this countries domestic agenda. But I do believe that like the Jewish community (another community with varying opinions on social issues in the United States) Muslims do for the most part share a common platform when it comes to American foreign policy.

        • olive says:

          I am not surprised that many Muslims have such divergent views on domestic issues. Many of them, unfortunately, are not very connected to the Islamic legal tradition. Thus one finds them saying some very weird things. It would be best if they actually studied under qualified Shaykhs or at least consulted Islamic law manuals before saying something about the religion. Reading an English translation of the meanings of the Qur’an just does not cut it.

          Lets take homesexuality for example. If one looks into the manuals of Islamic Sacred Law , they will find that it is not sinful if one were to have a disposition that causes them to be attracted to members of the same gender. However, when it comes to the actual ACT of sodomy, the Shari’ah has a zero tolerance policy.

          But of course, the only people permited to enforce such laws are the legitimate government authorities.

        • Shafiq says:

          James and Olive,

          Yes, Yes, Yes and Yes.

          Muslims in the US tend to have more divergent views than those in Europe, which I attribute to US Muslims being better educated and richer.

          There has also been a rise in the number of ‘internet Muslims’ who think that because they read somewhere “the Qur’an says …”, then it must be true.

  9. Todd says:

    I wouldn’t say that Israelis are obsessed with race as much as they are obsessed with Jewishness. But I did have an Israeli sneer that my skin is too white when visiting the home of a friend of a friend in Herzliya. I guess I had fewer problems due to skin pigmentation than Ethopian Jews would.