In light of the recent protests Joseph Dana's interview with Al Jazeerah and London Review of Books article What about the Occupation? directs us to the most pressing concern impacting social justice in Israel today.
AJ: The government has tried to label these protesters 'left wing'. Are they and why as far as the government is concerned is an accusation of being left wing such a slur?
DANA: In israeli politics everything is on a very stark left/right divide, the left being associated with Palestinian rights. The sad reality is that if Israelis discuss Palestinian rights and specifically the rights of Palestinians under Israeli occupation they very quickly lose public support. Now we've been waiting, as I've said, and given the protest a number of weeks here to develop any sort of criticism about the occupation and I think if there is no criticism of the occupation it will provide absolute proof that Israeli society is not ready or willing to discuss this occupation and will not be able to end it itself.
Dana's LRB article draws our attention to the timeliness of addressing Palestinian rights given the United Nations vote on Palestinian statehood in September and the pressing choice facing Israeli protestors. Note the framing of the GOI: one regime rules the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.
The protesters' working definition of ‘social justice’, however, is unclear and full of contradictions. Most glaringly, they have yet to address the question of the Occupied Territories. From the start, organisers maintained that their protests were a rare instance of ‘apolitical’ social organising. The Palestinian issue was understood to be too divisive to be included under the umbrella of Israel’s social justice revolution, and there’s no doubt that, had protesters connected their struggle for social justice to the occupation, many fewer Israelis would have joined the protests.
The rights of Israelis, however, are inextricably tied with the rights of Palestinians, both inside the 1967 borders and in the Occupied Territories. The protesters, like most of Israeli society, are operating under the assumption that they are disconnected from the Palestinians who live under Israeli military occupation. But the fact is that one regime rules the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, and any discussion of the allocation of resources here, not to mention social justice, must take into account the rights of everyone who lives under the regime.
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The protest as a whole will soon be forced to confront the question of the occupation. Last week the military announced that it will initiate a massive call up of reserves ahead of the United Nations vote on Palestinian statehood in September. Most of the protesters, young men and woman with reserve duty obligations, will have to decide whether to increase the pressure on the government by refusing to serve, or abandon their protest without having made any concrete gains. At the moment, the latter course seems more likely.
totally off topic, but i think a post is warranted on recent israeli incursions into lebanon. sorry, no “western” sources readily on the story.
link to dailystar.com.lb
they already acting to divert attention away from the tent protest? and what IDF unit allows itself to be put out as a possible sacrificial lamb?
And per the Dimi Reider article in 972, Israeli Palestinian concerns of equality of living conditions and political rights are being actively discussed, supported, and as peers.
The Palestinian solidarity march a week before this demonstration attracted 3000, a success. This demonstration attracted between 300,000 and 400, 000.
The occupation is in fact a divisive issue, and that is partially a negative indicator for Israeli society. But, that Israelis do invite non-Jewish participation in the social demonstrations indicates that the basis is not racism, and may in fact be due to the methods, language and goals of the Palestinian solidarity effort.
Sick do you know how racist the ave Israeli is? But you blame the victim and use the presence of Palestinians to whitewash Israeli society writ large? Every extended family member I have met in Israel is clearly racist with a few exceptions. You are deluded. BTW the fact that a 1948 tent is allowed does not speak to mainstream Israeli opinion or even the majority of those protesting. That comment is sick….
one tent in thousands ‘proves’ his pt.
Unless you took a poll of the number of Palestinians that participated in the march, and ongoing demonstration, then your description of “one tent in thousands” is misrepresentative.
In a post by Omar Barghouti above, in describing the absence of respectful presentation of Palestinians in Israeli textbooks, he calls young Israelis in the IDF “monsters”.
Palestinians deserve respect (and change will then happen), AND Israelis deserve respect (and change will happen).
Every verbal assault on the “wall” adds to its construction, as well as tears it down.
In contrast, every statement of mutual respect combined with manly self-respect ONLY tears it down.
i think one tent in thousand is apt. now, if you have any evidence otherwise (numbers) present it.
spare me your lectures on respect. you come here everyday and talk down to phil . you are one of the most disrespectful people i’ve encountered on this blog.
now, back to the comment i originally came here to make. (read below)
Witty, just come out and say it. If Israel goes to hell, and takes the Palestians with it, it’ll all be the fault of the Mondoweiss comment section.
bwwwaaaahhh! let’s make it all about us! does anyone have any smelling salts for richard. he’s going to have to step up his game if he’s gonna jump start this comment section under a new ‘it’s all about us’ diversion theme. hey witster, have you read the new reut report? have we crossed the ‘red line’ yet?
You are projecting Annie.
There was one 1948 tent, but reports of MANY Israeli Palestinians participating as peers in the social movement (rather than political).
You read 972. That’s where I got my reporting.
The distinction that Joseph Dana objects to (and the Palestinian solidarity here) is that the movement does not include the “elephant in the room”, and is therefore some sort of betrayal of Palestinians.
It just ain’t so. It is your and his impatience and distrust that does not give oxygen to the movement, so that it can be adopted consensually.
That seems to me to be a common theme of Palestinian solidarity, the desire that Israelis “pay for their crimes”, that they grovel, rather than simply humanize.
They won’t grovel. They won’t adopt the ideological. They will expand their circle of who is “we” if they are given room to.
>> That seems to me to be a common theme of Palestinian solidarity, the desire that Israelis “pay for their crimes”, that they grovel, rather than simply humanize.
Given your recent fear-mongering conflation of the word ‘nightmare’ with anti-semitism and impending genocide, it’s no surprise that you would now conflate demands for accountability with a desire to see Israelis grovel.
Given your track record of apologetics for Israeli crimes and immorality, it’s no surprise that you keep trying to make accountability for crimes and immorality sound like a bad thing.
And if you want the victim to humanize the rapist, it is very important – at the VERY least – that the rapist first STOP RAPING THE VICTIM!
Why not orient your points to achieving your main point eljay?
It seems senseless to me to attack and discredit those that bear sympathy for Palestinian experience.
I have no “track record of apologetics for Israeli crimes and immorality”. I differ with your political conclusions is all.
>> It seems senseless to me to attack and discredit those that bear sympathy for Palestinian experience.
You? Bear sympathy for the Palestinian experience?
- First, there’s the very real fact that you continue to place the onus for “humanization” on the oppressed Palestinians and not upon the oppressive Israelis.
- Second, you continually gloss over or outright dismiss the fact that Israel remains engaged in an ON-GOING, offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder.
- Third, well, let’s see:
—————————
>> RW: I cannot consistently say that “ethnic cleansing is never necessary”.
>> RW: If I was an adult in 1948, I probably would have supported whatever it took to create the state of Israel, and held my nose at actions that I could not possibly do myself.
>> Chaos4700: … Then why was it necessary for Jewish immigrants to ethnically cleanse massive swaths of the Palestinian country side? …
>> RW: Currently its not necessary. …
—————————
>> I have no “track record of apologetics for Israeli crimes and immorality”.
Really? Let’s see:
—————————
>> RW: I cannot consistently say that “ethnic cleansing is never necessary”.
>> RW: If I was an adult in 1948, I probably would have supported whatever it took to create the state of Israel, and held my nose at actions that I could not possibly do myself.
>> Chaos4700: … Then why was it necessary for Jewish immigrants to ethnically cleanse massive swaths of the Palestinian country side? …
>> RW: Currently its not necessary. …
—————————
Condescension towards a small number of token ‘civilized natives’ does not at all mean that a colonialist regime is not racist.
As I said elsewhere, there is only one sensible reaction to all of this: Intensify the effort for BDS. Grabbing middle class Israeli voters by their standards of living seems to be an effective way of prodding them to action; as opposed to fruitless appeals to their sense of decency.
Richard Witty said, ‘Look at this howler of mine:
‘Pay close attention. Almost no Palestinians from occupied Palestine are allowed into Tel Aviv, so what I’m really saying here is that deep down I don’t think “Israelis” can be “non-Jewish!”
‘Watch this.
‘Uh-oh. Maybe I went too far this time.’
Gosh darn it North, You can read as good as I do:
“Phil and I are family friends. My aunt and Phil’s mother were best friends. Our families have intermingled since. Phil and I spent parts of summers together as somewhat radical teenagers from 14 to 17. We’ve attended seders together when held at my aunt’s house. We see each other at family events, weddings, bar/bat mitzvahs. I think of Phil as a close friend, in that I care about him as a person in my life, even as we argue and chafe.” Richard Witty
Phil owes Witty a place on this blog! And if he doesn’t give it to his, there can’t be anything good about Mondoweiss, the articles, the commenters, anything. It all stinks, and Richard knows what to do about it.
Sure looks like that’s about what it comes down to.
Besides, what right does Phil Weiss have to any successful literary endeavor, and not include Witty. Remember, Phil never bought the complete Chomsky-on-tape!
I’m sorry, after Richard’s remarks on the Lillian Rosengarten article, I did an extensive search and reading among the archives, and I’m a little pissed.
“The protests are silent on the occupation…”
Sue they are, as most of them support the occupation or palestine lands, elected those politicians who ruin the country, served in the IDF, steal palestinian water and will not rent to none jews or even associate with arabs.
They only worry about the standard of their own living. In other words: hypocrats!!!
I have an easy solution for them:
Withdraw behind the pre-1967 lines,
decrease the size of the IDF at least 50% and stop attacking your neighbors,
do not pay orthodox jews for not working, but making babies,
separate the state from the temple,
rabbies must be paid by the temple, not the state, also the Torah schools.
send the settlers packing back home.
This may not be the whole program, but it will be a good start.
Dick Witty says:
But, that Israelis do invite non-Jewish participation in the social demonstrations indicates that the basis is not racism,……
I thought you could be “Israeli” without being Jewish…So, Witty refutes claims of “Israeli” racism…..by making a racist statement himself. Awesome.
>> I thought you could be “Israeli” without being Jewish…So, Witty refutes claims of “Israeli” racism…..by making a racist statement himself. Awesome.
It is, isn’t it? This is the same guy:
- who argues that Israel can be both a “Jewish state” AND a democratic state which safeguards the rights of all minorities; and
- who says he sees nothing wrong with excising non-Jewish Israeli minorities right the hell out of Israel (just re-draw the border and – BAM! – those pesty Israeli minorties become non-Israelis and “someone else’s problem”) in order to preserve a Jewish majority.
Then again, he *is* a “humanist” who approves of past ethnic cleansing and who refuses to rule out future ethnic cleansing.
eljay,
you have single-handedly ruined the possibility of the two state solution with your last comment. to humanize the other, while knocking down the walls which separate “us” from another while giving oxygen to the movement and expanding the circle of who is “we” is the way to……WAIT, WHAT THE FUCK AM I SAYING???
hahaha.
it seems haaretz has now picked up on the social justice /palestinian theme. (where dana dares to go haaretz follows..hold the press. just noticed they linked to scheindlin and dana @ 927 read it ) let’s hope others follow suit.
haraatz article: Where do Palestinians figure in the Israeli cry for ‘social justice’?
more at the link
Why Palestinians are not included in “social justice” discussions?
A recent poster (perhaps not on this site) suggested that through years of indoctrination almost all Israelis consider Palestinians to be “sub-human”, i.e., non-entities, and are accordingly simply ignored.
If that is the case, what hope is there for this mind-set to be broken?