Israeli air force shoots down unidentified drone over Negev

Israel/Palestine
on 52 Comments
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Israeli military attempting to locate and recover downed drone, Southern Hebron Hills, October 6. Photo by Eliyahu Hershkovitz

Haaretz:

The Israeli Air Force shot down an unidentified aerial vehicle that penetrated Israel’s airspace on Saturday. IDF forces shot down the drone over the Negev, south of Mount Hebron. The IDF said Saturday that the drone arrived in Israel from the west after flying over the Mediterranean and the Gaza Strip. It said the incident is under investigation.

This is the fourth time in the past decade such an incident occurs. In the past, small drones penetrated Israel’s airspace from the north. …

The IDF said Saturday that it plans on examining the drone’s flight course in attempt to establish its origin. It will also investigate what the drone’s objective was: reconnaissance and intelligence gathering (that also may be used for propaganda) or to target Israeli towns or IDF compounds.

…..

Iranian media in past years reported that the country is developing a new combat drone named Karar, saying it will have bombing capabilities. According to reports, Iran claims that the Karar’s range could reach 1,000 kilometers.

The IDF mentioned in past incidents that the damage done to Israel by the drones was not the exposing of classified material, but the fact that videos recorded during the flight were published in the media, undermining the Air Force’s superiority in the region.

AP

Israel radio reported that it appeared to be an intelligence gathering drone. The report says the military knew the drone was nearing Israel and decided to wait to shoot it down over Israeli airspace.

Defence Minister Ehud Barak has congratulated the military in a statement.

He says “we view this incident of attempting to enter Israeli airspace very severely and we will consider our response later.”
 

The drone was brought down a mere 30 kilometers from the Dimona.

About Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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52 Responses

  1. Les
    October 6, 2012, 2:54 pm

    Just go to a Maker Faire and you will see hobbyists’ small scale planes that can be used as drones. Just because the US uses them on its intended Muslim victims in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc., doesn’t mean others can’t also make drones, including Gaza’s Palestinians. The US chose to open the Pandora’s box of drone warfare, without realizing that that technology was available to all. “What hath God wrought.”

    • Carowhat
      October 7, 2012, 12:21 am

      I’ve often wondered what would happen if someone bought an off-the-shelf remote control model plane, put a little explosive in it, and launched it at the White house from a Washington D.C. street or parking lot. The drone wouldn’t have to do any real damage–just bounce off one of those impregnable White House windows and start a little brush fire–but our government would go nuts. Civil liberties would disappear. Everyone who has ever operated a model plane would get a visit from the FBI. You wouldn’t be able to get on a train (or city bus) without going through a scanner.

      We have to end all our foreign wars and quit using drones on everyone if we don’t want to end up a police state here at home.

  2. riyadh
    October 6, 2012, 4:32 pm

    $10 says it was one of these:

    link to brookstone.com

  3. ColinWright
    October 6, 2012, 5:02 pm

    Haaretz contributes to the unintentional humor files:

    “Analysis
    The immediate suspect behind the drone that penetrated Israel: Hezbollah
    The unmanned aerial vehicle that was shot down by the IDF on Saturday came from the direction of Gaza – but it does not appear that Palestinian groups are behind it…”

    Never mind that it came from the opposite direction: it was Hezbollah!

    Impressively, the article offers absolutely no evidence beyond the fact that Hezbollah has operated drones in the past to support the contention.

    The quoted piece appears to attempt to support a similar contention: “… IDF forces shot down the drone over the Negev, south of Mount Hebron…”

    Ah yeah. The Negev is indeed ‘south of Mount Hebron.’ Quite a ways south.

    Israel appears to be attempting to believe its own bullshit. Either (a) Hezbollah — a Shi’a organization — has mysteriously acquired an ability to mount relatively large operations from territory dominated by Sunni fundamentalists, (b) Hezbollah now has drones with a range of several hundred miles that can circle around Israel and come in from the opposite direction, or (c) it wasn’t Hezbollah at all.

    Even if Israel does want to have a war with Hezbollah.

    • piotr
      October 7, 2012, 4:36 am

      It sounds more credible than identification of some attackers as Gazan because they had Kalashnikovs. After all, drones can have a range of several hundred kilometers, and probing air defenses with drones would be a logical preparation for future use of drones.

      Concerning locations south of Mt Hebron, perhaps readers would also benefit from the information that Negev is south of Mr. Ararat, Jotunheimen and Svalbard.

      • ColinWright
        October 7, 2012, 1:19 pm

        Piotr says: “After all, drones can have a range of several hundred kilometers, and probing air defenses with drones would be a logical preparation for future use of drones…”

        First, allowing for swinging outside of the range of Israel’s radar screen before coming back in, the drone would need a range of more than several hundred kilometers to perform this maneuver — particularly if it is to be recovered without letting the cat out of the bag by simply flying home to Lebanon. It’ll have to retrace its route before returning to its launching point.

        Second, it is not sufficient for the drone to merely have the physical range: Hezbollah needs some means of tracking the thing throughout its flight. I’m starting to get this vision of Hezbollah’s gigantic underground headquarters and region-wide array of monitoring stations — don’t think so.

        Third, even allowing for the physical ability to do the above, why? Surely there are simpler and cheaper ways to accomplish whatever a drone circling Israel and coming in from the south is supposed to accomplish.

        I think Israel is either in denial about who actually did this, or is interested in pinning it on Hezbollah regardless of the evidence.

    • Walid
      October 7, 2012, 12:19 pm

      “Never mind that it came from the opposite direction: it was Hezbollah!” (Colin)

      Hamas is somewhat on the side of Israel’s allies these days, it has come out with the West against Assad. Israel is trying to hit 2 birds with one shot; it’s saying the Hizbullah drone was supplied by Iran.

      It’s worth noting that Hizbullah’s technology has been hacking into Israeli drone video transmissions for years. About a year or so ago it released one such intercepted tape of an Israeli commando attack on a Lebanese target of a few years ago and for which, Hizbullah had set a trap for the Israeli raiding party and several commandos were killed. Because of the Hizbullah released drone tape, the parents of the killed soldiers are now suing the Israeli government for having lied to them that their children had died in a training excercise.

      • ColinWright
        October 7, 2012, 1:27 pm

        Walid says: “… About a year or so ago it released one such intercepted tape of an Israeli commando attack on a Lebanese target of a few years ago and for which, Hizbullah had set a trap for the Israeli raiding party and several commandos were killed. Because of the Hizbullah released drone tape, the parents of the killed soldiers are now suing the Israeli government for having lied to them that their children had died in a training excercise.”

        Do tell. Do you have some links with further information?

      • Walid
        October 7, 2012, 8:16 pm

        “Do tell. Do you have some links with further information?” (Colin)

        Colin, about the interception of Israeli drone transmissions, in Counterpunch August 2010:

        “… But perhaps the major revelation in Nasrallah’s press conference was the ability of his group to intercept all reconnaissance images sent from the Israeli drones over Lebanese skies back to Israel. This technical feat achieved by Hezbollah since 1997 allowed them to analyze Israel’s major targets in Lebanon. For example he showed that in September, 1997, because of such interceptions, his troops were able to ambush an Israeli commando unit after entering Beirut by sea, and even videotaped the helicopter evacuation of fifteen dead and wounded soldiers following the botched raid.

        In his speech, Nasrallah matched the intercepted images with several assassinations carried out in Lebanon in the past decade evidenced by confessions of the captured Israeli agents in Beirut, Sidon, and Tyre. He then showed extensive images taken by the Israeli drones for over a five-year period of Rafik Hariri’s land routes across Lebanon- to and from his offices and residences in Beirut, his summer home in the mountains, and the coastal route to his brother’s residence in Sidon.

        In all these routes there were no Hezbollah targets, offices or bases, leaving no doubt that Hariri was the target of the drones that were taking images from all angles, especially those close to the coastal areas, while pausing and zooming at the points of intersections.

        … Nasrallah finally disclosed that an Israeli reconnaissance plane and an Israeli AWACS were flying over Beirut on the day of the (2005 Hariri) assassination for four hours from 10:30 am until 2:30 pm encompassing the 1 pm time of the assassination. He questioned whether it was a coincidence that an operational plane would be flying so close to the location at the time when the crime was committed.

        The Israeli government immediately dismissed these accusations as baseless although many Israeli experts admitted that Hezbollah had been able to intercept Israeli drone images for many years, but they argued that the transmission of pictures have since been encrypted, making it very difficult to intercept.”

        link to counterpunch.org

        Colin, as to the families of the bungled raid suing the IDF because of the intercepted drone report released by Hizbullah, from Haaretz in November 2010:

        “The father of one of 11 naval commandos killed in a botched raid in Lebanon in 1997 asked the High Court of Justice on Thursday to order the IDF to release the findings of an internal probe into the matter.

        Moshe Rodovsky accused the IDF leadership of whitewashing the incident and hiding information, and said that the exposure of documents will provide a complete picture of the operational and intelligence failures of the operation.

        In September 1997, a force of naval commandos embarked on a secret mission into Lebanon. Near the beach town of Ansariya the force tripped a number of mines, and during the firefight that ensued, explosives the soldiers were carrying also exploded. Eleven soldiers died, including Rodovsky’s son Gal, and four were injured.

        Rodovsky is demanding that testimonies and conclusions of the four committees investigating the incident internally at the IDF be released.

        In addition he is asking that details of the entire chain of command involved in the operation, information on the necessity to carry out the operation, its aims, and the preparations that preceded it be revealed.

        Moreover, he is asking for another committee of investigation to be set up under the auspices of a Supreme Court justice.

        In his petition, Rodovsky claims that preparations for the mission were made negligently, and that drones had repeatedly photographed the area where the raid took place but relayed their information via non-encrypted channels.

        link to haaretz.com

      • Walid
        October 7, 2012, 8:46 pm

        Colin more about it from the Angry Arab, November 2010:

        “Israeli military lies: or the other face of humiliation

        After the news conference, Israeli Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi ordered a panel of experts to examine the footage shown by Nasrallah. The pictures were authentic. These days, navy commander Eliezer Marom is making the rounds of victims’ families, presenting the army’s findings and confirming the force was compromised. Moshe Rodovsky, whose son Gal was killed in the incident, accused the army of a whitewash and said the families had been treated as enemies. He petitioned the court demanding all the information the army has on the incident, including the details from the four internal committees that investigated the events. The court rejected his request, instructing him to wait for the army to respond to his requests first.

        On Sunday, Marom met with Nahshon Tebi, whose son Raz was one of the victims. Four or five days before the operation, IDF drone footage was picked up by Hezbollah or another element; it is highly probably that this revealed the force’s route, were the findings the navy commander read the family.”

        link to angryarab.net

        and from the JPost, November 2010:

        “… “The drones repeatedly photographed the landing area,” Saadia wrote in the petition.

        “Their frequency immediately enabled the enemy to understand where the soldiers would arrive. Shockingly, the drones broadcast openly, without a code and anyone could pick these broadcasts up.”

        Rodovsky also charged that the commandos’ radio communication was uncoded, that the communications of a patrol boat operating off the coast was uncoded and that an IDF plane flying above the landing area made a great deal of noise. He also charged that the rescue team was inexperienced and improperly trained.

        He said he also came to understand that the operation itself was unnecessary and that its aims were not clear…”

        link to jpost.com

        Colin, Israel always has excuses. In 2006 when a Hizbullah land-to-sea missile took out an Israeli navy Saar 5 destroyer, Hanit, anchored 10 km offshore, Israel said that the ship’s sophisticated detection radars and defensive weapons had been “turned off” for the evening. That evening, 5 Israeli sailors were killed, several others injured when the missile hit the ship 5 meters off from its critical point that would have sunk it. The disabled ship had to be towed to Haifa where it was in drydock repairs for almost 2 years. The hit was very dramatic because it came at the very end of a 30-minute Nasrallah live televised speech that he concluded by saying, “Now if you turn your attention towards the sea, you will be witnessing what we do to those that have been shelling our civilians’ homes”. The camera then turned towards the sea, there was a 5 second silence and then a big flash as the missile hit the Hanit and lit the sky.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 7, 2012, 9:11 pm

        “Now if you turn your attention towards the sea, you will be witnessing what we do to those that have been shelling our civilians’ homes”. The camera then turned towards the sea, there was a 5 second silence and then a big flash as the missile hit the Hanit and lit the sky.

        wow walid, i never heard about that before. i heard about the attack, but not the announcement at the end of the speech.

      • Walid
        October 7, 2012, 10:20 pm

        Annie, it was a shocker to pull it off on live TV. Imagine the embarrassment if the missile wouldn’t have hit the target, but I guess they were 100% sure to hit it. Hizbullah tried sinking another ship with a cruise missile but sank a Cambodian-flagged merchant ship instead. The big new surprise Hizbullah now has is most probably reserved for the F16. It’s no wonder that Israel now takes Hizbullah’s threat to halt all shipping to and from Israel’s ports very seriously. Here’s more about the Hanit hit from Military.com:

        “Hezbollah’s Missile Surprise
        Sea Power | Matt Hilburn | September 28, 2006

        On July 14, Hezbollah scored a major strategic coup when it struck the Israeli corvette Hanit with a missile off the coast of Lebanon, killing four sailors and severely damaging the sophisticated ship.

        … The significance of the attacks, initially reported to be the work of a drone, was somewhat overshadowed by the daily barrage of Katyusha rockets on northern Israel. But to navies around the world, the event is a shocking affirmation that a terrorist group such as Hezbollah possesses capabilities never before imagined.

        “It should not be lost on us, for example, that Hezbollah fields greater and longer-range weapons than most regional armed forces,” said Army Gen. John Abizaid, commander, U.S. Central Command, during Aug. 3 testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee. “If left unchecked, it is possible to imagine chemical, biological or even nuclear weapons being transferred to militias or terrorist organizations by a state actor.”
        On July 14, what had previously been unlikely became very real in the form of what appears to be a sophisticated C-802 antiship cruise missile.

        link to military.com

      • RoHa
        October 7, 2012, 10:49 pm

        Imagine the embarrassment if the missile hadn’t hit the target …

      • Annie Robbins
        October 7, 2012, 10:53 pm

        i didn’t know hadn’thit was a word RoHa

        ;)

      • RoHa
        October 7, 2012, 11:03 pm

        You’re fast! I put the space immediately after I’d posted it.

        I really don’t see why people find conditionals so hard to get right.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 7, 2012, 11:09 pm

        conditional? what’s a friggin conditional?

        oh, i see you edited it. the thrill of finding a typo in your comment and now the evidence has disappeared. bwaaaah.

      • RoHa
        October 7, 2012, 11:54 pm

        “the thrill of finding a typo in your comment and now the evidence has disappeared.”

        Evil, mocking, laughter.

        “what’s a friggin conditional?”
        Start here:
        link to usingenglish.com

        or here:
        link to learnamericanenglishonline.com
        link to learnamericanenglishonline.com
        link to learnamericanenglishonline.com
        link to learnamericanenglishonline.com

      • Walid
        October 8, 2012, 12:58 am

        “I really don’t see why people find conditionals so hard to get right.”

        Glad I made your day.

      • ColinWright
        October 8, 2012, 4:46 am

        Interesting stuff. Hopefully, Hezbollah will keep its edge, and hopefully, Israelis will continue to engage in wishful thinking about their inherent racial superiority.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 8, 2012, 3:34 pm

        lol, laughter maybe roha, but no evil intent. you’re too precious around here.

  4. ColinWright
    October 6, 2012, 5:29 pm

    More importantly — just in case there’s anyone out there who’s in a position to implement the suggestion — these drones are ideal.

    I don’t know whether the tactic is intentional or not, but assuming the things are actually harmless, the tactic could be brilliant. On the one hand, they can hardly become a ‘terrorist outrage’ if they never kill anyone. On the other hand, at a minimum, they will force Israel to expend wildly disproportionate resources to shoot them down, and are likely to excite her to make grossly unjustified threats and even start attacking all and sundry.

    …Thus further delegitimizing herself. These drones are an example of exactly how the war against Israel should be fought. It’s like Judo — the idea is to use Israel’s own weight against her.

    …and the beauty of it is, what’s Israel going to do? Start letting unidentified drones zip all over her airspace? Expend a $10,000.00 interceptor rocket on each one? However she plays it, it can only lead to mounting hysteria and demands for ‘retaliation’ within Israel.

    Assuming anyone wants to win, this is an outstanding way to go.

  5. ColinWright
    October 6, 2012, 5:46 pm

    “The IDF mentioned in past incidents that the damage done to Israel by the drones was not the exposing of classified material, but the fact that videos recorded during the flight were published in the media, undermining the Air Force’s superiority in the region.”

    They’d better do something about Google Earth, then. Right here at my fingertips…

  6. Taxi
    October 7, 2012, 12:39 am

    LOL!

    Israelis fly their F16’s on a weekly basis over Lebanon and no one blinks an eye, neither the Lebanon (cuz they ain’t scared of the zionists) nor the international community.

    And we know that Hizbollah are smarter than the IAF and the IDF combined cuz they whipped both their behinds not too long ago. So if anything, hizb may well have sent the drone to test and learn from the israeli response and the israelis fell right into the trap, again.

    One thing’s for sure, if you can send one undetected drone to the heart of israel, you can send a thousand.

    Oh fortress israel!

    • marc b.
      October 7, 2012, 11:16 am

      Israelis fly their F16′s on a weekly basis over Lebanon and no one blinks an eye

      well, taxi, the territorial integrity of ‘israel, oh israel!’ is inviolate, but that of lebanon, syria, iran, dubai, new zealand, international waters, etc., not so much.

      • Walid
        October 7, 2012, 1:10 pm

        “Israelis fly their F16′s on a weekly basis over Lebanon and no one blinks an eye” (Taxi)

        They used to fly the full length of the country (135 miles) from south to north on their way for joint excercises with the Turks but stopped since the problems between the Turks and Israelis. They still peek into Lebanon and speed out of its 10 mile width to bait Hizbullah in showing them what it’s got, but Hizbullah is not biting and not showing them anything.

        Israel is into paranoia now with the drone story. The drone intercepted is supposedly an advanced Iranian model launched from southern Lebanon towards the Med where it circled back and entered Israel towards Dimona. One military guy interviewed said that one such drone is no problem since they have trained to intercept one intruder but that a problem would arise if 10 or 15 drones entered at the same time.

    • Annie Robbins
      October 7, 2012, 11:29 am

      taxi, israel today has warplanes staging mock raids over southern lebanon. scroll down.

      • Taxi
        October 7, 2012, 2:54 pm

        I know they did, annie – I heard them and laughed – I’m about a half an hour’s drive from Nabatiyeh. And come to think of it, I actually do remember thinking this morning that they were farting around in the sky for a bit longer than usual – and boy it was a particularly beautiful autumn morning here in the south of Lebanon: so much beauty and peace in the hills where I am: before, during, and after the mock-raid.

        Like I said, no civilian here, I’ve noted, even bothers to look up when israeli fighter jets zigzag the sky. This drone being real or black-op is besides the point: israel’s spin and today’s ‘mock exercise’ are purely for local israeli consumption. Natanyahu has clearly dropped the Iran ball for the time being: possibly an unforgivable sin for a lotta israeli voters, and he has to therefore flex muscle here and blow whistle there to compensate and distract. Besides, the israelis need their fix of the politics of fear at least once a week just to feel normal. Israel knows that attacking Lebanon, like attacking Iran, will ignite a regional war that they can’t afford to initiate and can’t guarantee winning either. Syria already has wild fires going on and if israel starts a wild fire in Lebanon and Lebanon starts a wild fire in israel, and the borders with Egypt fire-up as well, well, you’re gonna get those four close fires joining and causing an uncontrollable rolling inferno. And where is israel in all this? Right in the middle of all the fires. Yeah israel knows it’s NOT A GOOD IDEA to war up with ANY of it’s immediate neighbors right now, and with an attack on Iran looking impossible, warmongering zionists are actually in a state of panic. They are not masters of their destiny at the moment and this is a first for them.

        I can categorically report that it’s perfectly safe here for now and for the near future. There will be no israeli attack for sure between now and the November elections. A vital chess piece on the mideast chessboard will HAVE to move to a new position in November – we’ve yet to see which piece and to where – but it will give a new reading on israel, it’s need for war, and the timing of it’s next attack.

        Till then, I’ll just be enjoying the marvelous autumn harvest in the valleys and hills of the Galilee, taking afternoon swims in the cooling waters of the mediterranean.

        Down with the fearmongers!

        Viva Peace and Fun!

      • Annie Robbins
        October 7, 2012, 10:55 pm

        Down with the fearmongers!

        Viva Peace and Fun!

        oh yeah, i’m with you all the way.

  7. Erasmus
    October 7, 2012, 6:15 am

    Haaretz 06Oct12 and headline:
    The immediate suspect behind the drone that penetrated Israel: H e z b o l l a h
    by Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff = the fairy tellers tell their East Side Story!!
    link to haaretz.com

    And the not-so-immediate suspect may well be a false-flag operation by IDF itself!!!??
    Now the first question would be: cui bono??

    What interest should the Hezbollah have and how stupid you might think Hezbollah really was to commit such a blunder at this point of time????
    The scenario: The Jewish Israel is still in the last days of the Sukkot festival …….NTYahoo has failed with his Iran nuclear issue escalation efforts and plans to lure or force the USA into a red-line policy. NTYahoo’s recent world-wide public gimmick at the UNGA has earned him overwhelming international “acclaim” (of sorts).
    Now with the US Presidential elections a month away (6Nov.) and NTYahoo’s candidate Romney at the loosing end, and with the NTYahoo government crumbling, the budget 2013 problems at hand and no consensus in sight, the Tal-law re universal draft legislation stalled, and new advanced national elections likely in early spring next year……,
    Netanyahoo opens a reactivated front of warmongering:
    If you can not hit Iran, Israel’s interest might as well focus on “Iran’s ally” = Hezbollah. A little Ersatz-Iran?

    • Annie Robbins
      October 7, 2012, 11:25 am

      8:56AM EST October 7. 2012 –

      BEIRUT (AP) — Lebanon’s state news agency says Israeli warplanes have staged mock raids over villages in southern Lebanon, breaking the sound barrier.

      The National News Agency says the planes flew low over the market town of Nabatiyeh and nearby villages on Sunday.

      The exercise comes a day after the Israeli military shot down a drone that crossed deep into Israel from the Mediterranean Sea, marking the first time in at least six years that a hostile aircraft has penetrated Israeli airspace.

      It was not immediately clear who launched the drone, but suspicion quickly fell on the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah. The Iranian-backed group is known to have sent drones into Israel on several previous occasions.The Israeli military declined to comment on reports that its jets flew over southern Lebanon.

      link to usatoday.com

      erusmus:

      And the not-so-immediate suspect may well be a false-flag operation by IDF itself!!!??……

      it very much occurred to me it was a false flag operation. not that i doubt a will or ability of other actors, but mostly because of the timing and the way it was covered by the press. ie:

      The IDF mentioned in past incidents that the damage done to Israel by the drones was not the exposing of classified material, but the fact that videos recorded during the flight were published in the media, undermining the Air Force’s superiority in the region.

      iow, if the exposure of information gleened is not damaging but the public knowledge of the act is what undermines the impression of israeli superiority wouldn’t it therefore be prudent not to advertise the event? i don’t recall the western press covering this link to mondoweiss.net. in fact some might consider it was ‘covered up’ link to mondoweiss.net

      and yet this event, which it not much of a big deal (note the western press doesn’t report US/IS drone missions) gets covered by cnn, abc, wapo and little tiny newspapers all ver the US. why? and the result is israel carries out military exercises over lebanon (which is not that unusual)? nothing like turning one little lemon into gallons of lemonade.

  8. ColinWright
    October 7, 2012, 1:26 pm

    Well, as noted, whoever sent the drone, I think it’s a fine tactic. In fact, if Israel wants to whip herself into a homicidal frenzy and then do something that will delegitimize herself still further, I have no objection to that.

  9. lysias
    October 7, 2012, 3:07 pm

    Dimona is in the Negev.

    • ColinWright
      October 7, 2012, 5:43 pm

      Israel’s moving right along with this:

      “IAF jets fly mock raids over south Lebanon after mysterious aircraft shot down over Israel

      Israel still investigating Saturday’s incident in which an unmanned aircraft was shot down over the country’s skies, with main culprit being Lebanon-based and Iran-funded Hezbollah…”

      Winning friends and influencing people. Did it ever dawn on Israel that you cannot conduct your relations with your neighbors on the basis on them being eternally huddled in quivering terror?

      I mean, you don’t need to be a nice guy or anything to see it. Bismarck saw it — and he was a bit of a dick himself. It’s just called common sense.

      Israel is doomed. She’s dug her own grave, and is climbing into it. Well, good stuff. It really was an awful idea from the start.

      • ColinWright
        October 7, 2012, 5:49 pm

        Mind, Israel doesn’t want Lebanon to feel singled out.

        ‘Israeli airstrike in Gaza injures eleven’

        Including five children! One of the victims required a double amputation.

        link to maannews.net

        I guess Iran really is over. Israel’s looking around for a different date.

    • talknic
      October 7, 2012, 10:00 pm

      lysias October 7, 2012 at 3:07 pm

      “Dimona is in the Negev.”

      Uh huh. Where they do what exactly? Generate electricity?

      BTW Having nukes is a threat to use them. Otherwise there’s no point in having them.

  10. Denis
    October 7, 2012, 3:36 pm

    You can see from the video that this is not a AR Parrot quad-copter or some other “drone” from Toys R US. IAF Gen. Fishbein says the drone flies at 250 mph and carries a 65 lb. payload – and that Israel is “familiar” with it. Yeah, I’ll bet they are familiar with it. IAI probably has one on the assembly line right now.

    link to israelnationalnews.com

    This has red flag written all over it. Already IAF is running “mock” air attacks on Lebanon in retaliation.

    link to israelnationalnews.com

    This thing flew out of the west and over Gaza – does that sound like Lebanon? Lebanon was north of Gaza last time I checked GE. Is Israel saying it’s air defenses are so poor that Hezzbolah could launch a drone in Lebanon and fly it 120 miles down the coast before it was detected over Gaza? BS. What about the US X-band radar station near Dimona that is supposed to be able to tell when someone in Lebanon throws a softball in the air? I’d would be much more likely to buy Iran’s hypothesis that the drone came off of a US ship – or an Israeli ship.

    Of course, the knee jerk MSM are applying the old guilt by proxy syllogism:

    Hezbolah is known to have drone technology.
    Iran funds Hezbolah.
    Ergo, this is an Iranian operation.

    And so it goes . . .

    • lyn117
      October 8, 2012, 1:36 am

      Of course Israel would miss a drone from the north. It’s busy hunting the Mediterranean for all those peace & justice activists in the free gaza boats

      • Annie Robbins
        October 8, 2012, 2:20 am

        It’s busy hunting the Mediterranean for all those peace & justice activists in the free gaza boats

        lynn, it’s so easy massacring innocent civilians, after the hunt.

  11. Les
    October 7, 2012, 7:15 pm

    “Meanwhile, defense officials estimate that the drone started its mission in Lebanon, most likely to gather intelligence and check the IDF’s reaction. It is possible it was headed to the Dimona reactor.

    Operating a drone by remote control from such a long distance requires advanced capabilities, which Israel was not aware Hezbollah had acquired.”

    Source: Lebanese TV channel: Hezbollah behind drone mission – Israel News, Ynetnews.

    Don’t you just love the pathos bathos of that second sentence? I do, I’ve been laughing uproariously since I read it. Karma as Ctuttle is fond of remarking is a bitch and so is payback. It’s a little known fact that the Hizb successfully used drones to penetrate Israeli airspace during the last Israeli war of aggression and occupation against Lebanon. Let me spell it out for you. In 2006 during what in Lebanon is called the “July War” the Hizb successfully used drones against the Israelis not just in Lebanese airpsace but in Israeli airspace. You can be very certain that the Hizb have invested a lot of time, money, and research into improving their drones ever since.

    “Operating a drone by remote control from such a long distance requires advanced capabilities,”

    Let’s explore those ‘advanced capabilities’ a little. There are other links from the Ynet story linked above but you’re well capable of following those for yourself. This link is to the original report (Arabic Language) from al-Mayadeen a news organisation who are indeed closely linked to the Hizb. What’s interesting is that the drone operated first deep in Israeli controlled airspace and then deep in Israeli airspace proper for nearly half an hour before being detected. The Israelis had to scramble not one but two F16s to intercept and destroy the drone. Furthermore the vaunted Israeli radar systems were of no help in guiding the Israeli warcraft to their target.

    Al-Mayadeen quotes an IDF spokesman in saying that the IDF has instituted an enquiry into why their radar systems failed in their task.

    Drones, as Ian Welsh remarks, are not weapons of the powerful and Ian is perfectly correct in this (go read Ian’s posting it’s very short). But a weapon doesn’t have to powerful, or to be wielded by the powerful, to be very effective. Americans and their front-men in Israel tend to want the latest, shiniest, most expensive weapon available, while ignoring the price-performance ratio of those weapons. It’s one of the reasons why America and Israel have both been losing their wars lately. Lots and lots of very expensive and sophisticated weaponry systems wielded by soldiers who are very good at targeting civilians but aren’t very good at, you know, actually fighting, isn’t a war-winning formula.

    The Hizb on the other hand are very good at fighting and they wield weapons that are as sophisticated and as deadly as they have to be. The Hizb believe passionately in getting the best price-performance ratio possible and unlike the Americans and the Israelis the Hizb do win their wars. That’s because they’re good at fighting and they use right weapons for the job which is of killing, wounding, and terrifying enough enemy soldiers so that those soldiers run away. Ever seen the aftermath of a Hizb designed APD exploding? I have, I’ve seen them both in Lebanon and in Irak, and man that kill-box is tight. Not only is it tight but nothing and I do mean nothing survives inside it. I’ve also seen the results of what happens when American or Israeli tanks and APCs come up against Hizb designed bombs the results are impressive.

    link to my.firedoglake.com

    • Annie Robbins
      October 7, 2012, 9:04 pm

      les, don’t forget about the missing israeli drone israel claimed to have later blown up only there was never any evidence to support that. this happened about a month before iran remotely brought down one of our drones, also denied by our military until iran produced the evidence.

      French United Nations peacekeepers picked up an israeli drone on their radar screen last year before it vanished. a month later a whole van load of french UN peacekeepers were killed by a roadside bomb. probably a coincidence. anyway, at the time of the missing drone no one mentioned it could have been remotely brought down by hezbollah. but as soon as the US lost a drone that way the next month (to iran) i immediately thought of that vanishing israeli drone.

      i think there was a coverup too. for some of the references: link to mondoweiss.net

      link to moonofalabama.org

      link to online.wsj.com

      even if hezbollah didn’t remotely bring down the israeli drone a year ago i am sure they have the know how after iran successfully brought down the US drone. the previous one in southern lebanon could have been a test run with technical intelligence gleaned used for the iranian operation.

      i wonder if israel knows how to remotely bring down a foreign drone?

      • Walid
        October 7, 2012, 11:09 pm

        It was most probably an Israeli drone for the training of Israel’s air force that protects Dimona. When Hizbullah decides to do something against Dimona as it has insinuated it would do in the event of a war, it would likely be with a cruise missile. In any event, as Les described above, Hizbullah has been spending its money wisely and investing in its people as much as in its hardware. Over the years it has put thousands of computer enginering students through college and mostly every full time member is perfectly fluent in Hebrew. From Asia Times on Hizbullah’s technological advances in 2006:

        How hi-tech Hezbollah called the shots
        By Iason Athanasiadis
        BEIRUT — Hezbollah’s ability to repel the Israel Defense Forces during the recent conflict was largely due to its use of intelligence techniques gleaned from allies Iran and Syria that allowed it to monitor encoded Israeli communications relating to battlefield actions, according to Israeli officials, whose claims have been independently corroborated by the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

        “Israeli EW [electronic warfare] systems were unable to jam the systems at the Iranian Embassy in Beirut, they proved unable to jam Hezbollah’s command and control links from Lebanon to Iranian facilities in Syria, they blocked the Barak ship anti-missile systems, and they hacked into Israeli operations communications in the field,” Richard Sale, the longtime intelligence editor for United Press International, who was alerted to this intelligence ailure by current and former CIA officials, told Asia Times Online.

        The ability to hack into Israel’s military communications gave Hezbollah a decisive battlefield advantage, aside from allowing it to dominate the media war by repeatedly intercepting reports of the casualties it had inflicted and announcing them through its television station, Al-Manar. Al-Manar’s general director, Abdallah Kassir, would not comment on the information-gathering methods that had allowed it to preempt Israel’s casualty announcements, but he admitted he was in constant contact with Hezbollah’s military wing.

        For full article:
        link to thewe.cc

      • Annie Robbins
        October 7, 2012, 11:40 pm

        “It goes to the heart of one of the factors … routinely regarded as one of the clear advantages for all First World versus Third World nations or forces — electronic warfare and secure communications,” said Gary Sick, who was national security adviser under US president Jimmy Carter. “We are supposed to be able to read and interfere with their communications, not vice versa. A lot of calculations are based on that premise.”

        thanks for the link walid, i liked the first article by Azmi Bishara too.

        It was most probably an Israeli drone for the training of Israel’s air force that protects Dimona.

        you mean the drone that vanished in lebanon i presume. israel’s reaction was frantic.

  12. Denis
    October 7, 2012, 9:41 pm

    @annie: i wonder if israel knows how to remotely bring down a foreign drone?

    Either it was a foreign drone in that IAF video, or it wasn’t.

    Seems to me that if it was foreign and if they could control it, they would have done so and used it for propaganda purposes just like Iran did.

    If it was foreign and they couldn’t control it, they’d blow it. But under this scenario it’s funny how the drone conveniently did a U-turn and flew over an unpopulated area before IAF pulled the trigger.

    If it wasn’t foreign, then it was an IAF drone and a red flag operation and/or target practice, also used for propaganda and to justify buzzing Lebanon w/F-16s. In which case they definitely would have blown the drone over an unpopulated area.

    • Annie Robbins
      October 7, 2012, 11:06 pm

      Either it was a foreign drone in that IAF video, or it wasn’t.

      no shit sherlock!

      Seems to me that if it was foreign and if they could control it, they would have done so and used it for propaganda purposes just like Iran did.

      not necessarily. it is was foreign and they could bring it down one option would have been to be silent about it, the way hezbollah was silent after the israeli drone ‘vanished’. but they were anything but silent. the odd thing about this story is how it got advertised all over the internet within hours, as if it was a huge story (it isn’t) and then the iof publishing a video of themselves blowing up the drone which already had over 138,000 views when i drafted a story about the sonic booms over southern lebanon this morning (sometimes my drafts don’t get published. it seems a little after the fact now since we are discussing it in this thread).iow, they are heavily advertising this one intel drone. why? the mature thing to do with a breach of your borders might be to stfu and act all nada about it. but nooooo. they’re seeking mass milage. why?

      • ColinWright
        October 8, 2012, 4:53 am

        The IDF statements and the news coverage was rather well-oiled. If this had been an authentic Hezbollah drone, one would have expected initially uncoordinated statements, spotty media coverage, etc — maybe settling down to an official story in 24 hours or so.

        Not what we got…and it would fit that Israel needs to change channels about now. The Iran episode is ending. Time to pretend somebody else is the dire threat of the month.

  13. wes
    October 8, 2012, 6:07 am

    hezbollah is in the space between the hammer and the anvil.they watch south but the hammer will come from the north

    • Taxi
      October 8, 2012, 8:08 am

      LOL! Right you are wes: never mind that northern Lebanon boarders with Syria.

      In case you didn’t know, Hizbollah has eyes EVERYWHERE in Lebanon: north, east, west and south. They also hundreds of pairs of eyes INSIDE israel – wide awake and watching.

      You’re either severely uninformed on hizbollah, or you’re happily brainwashed by zionist propaganda. Or maybe your statement comes from “Tales from the Crypt” – the voice behind your ‘dramatic’ words sure sounded like it.

  14. Denis
    October 8, 2012, 11:05 am

    @annie: no shit sherlock! not necessarily. it is was foreign and they could bring it down one option would have been to be silent about it, the way hezbollah was silent after the israeli drone ‘vanished’. but they were anything but silent.

    Love you, too, annie. But you’re right: it’s not shit, it’s deduction . . . elementary deduction. Start with two mutually exclusive premises — the drone was either foreign or not — and see where each one takes you. If it was foreign you almost have to conclude IAF could not control it. If it was not foreign you absolutely have to conclude hoax/red flag.

    I’m still trying to sort out your rejoinder, which seems to be a non sequitor. You initially wondered if Israel could control a foreign drone. My response was that the fact they shot this thing down means that: a) either it was a foreign drone and they can’t control them, or b) it’s an IAF drone and this is a hoax, as per above. Still seems to me like a pretty sound conclusion.

    But you now seem to be arguing that even if this were a foreign drone and IAF had control of it, which means, by definition, they were able to land it, they would not have done so. Instead of getting their hands on the intact drone for forensic and PR reasons, they threw a sidewinder at it, blew it to smithereens, and then sent out the troops to pick up the pieces because . . . . hello?? Anybody home?

    Like Romney you are leaving us in an information vacuum at the critical part of the story. Please explain your theory of why you would waste a good sidewinder, which costs $85,000 USD, destroying a foreign drone you are in control of. Assuming it was foreign and you control it, what PR advantage do you get with a video of it being blasted out of the sky (and no one knowing what it really was) that you wouldn’t get from a video of it on the ground with Hezbollah/Iranian fingerprints, for instance, all over it? Respectfully waiting, Watson . . .

  15. ToivoS
    October 8, 2012, 2:37 pm

    This has an interesting analysis at FDL: link to my.firedoglake.com
    by a MarkfromIreland. Never heard of him before but he makes a plausible case for what happened with that drone over-flight.

    • Annie Robbins
      October 8, 2012, 3:00 pm

      i’ve definitely heard of him. he’s been around a long long time and was a prolific blogger thruoghout the iraq war on different forums. he’s smart and informed.

  16. Les
    October 8, 2012, 3:49 pm

    The above discussion should remind us that before the invasion of Iraq under Bush II, the war game that pitted the US against Iraq was lost by the US because the Iraq side used low tech and the US was locked into its high tech. The lost war game was witheld for some time, not that our media would have had to be asked.

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