Hannah Arendt and the Hungarian Jews

Israel/Palestine
on 79 Comments

The movie Hannah Arendt, now at New York’s Film Forum, is excellent.  See it. It makes reference to Eichmann and the Hungarian Jews.  I have previously written this in my book, “ Notebook of a Sixties Lawyer,” page 174.

In point of fact, members of the Zionist movement actively collaborated with Nazism from the beginning.  The World Zionist Organization sabotaged world Jewry’s attempt to boycott the Nazi economy in order to be allowed to send money from Germany to Palestine.  They fought against liberalization of U.S. immigration laws, for they wanted European Jews to go to Palestine, not America.  As Ralph Schoenman wrote in The Hidden History of Zionism, “This obsession with colonizing Palestine and overwhelming the Arabs led the Zionist movement to oppose any rescue of the Jews facing extermination, because the ability to deflect manpower to Palestine would be impeded.”
 
David Ben-Gurion summarized to a meeting of “left” Zionists in 1938 in England, “If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in Germany by  bringing them over to England and only half of them by transporting them to Eretz Israel, then I opt for the second alternative.”
 
My cousin was one of several thousand Hungarian Jews who survived the fire:  800,000 died.  A pact was signed by Dr. Rudolph Kastner of the Jewish Agency Rescue Committee and Nazi exterminator Adolph Eichmann in 1944 allowing 600 prominent Jews to leave in exchange for Zionist silence on the fate of the remainder.
 
Malchiel Greenwald, an Hungarian survivor, exposed the deal and was sued by the Israeli government, whose leaders at the time had actually drawn up the terms of the pact.  Greenwald won.  The Israeli court concluded, “The sacrifice of the majority of Hungarian Jews, in order to rescue the prominents (and send them to colonize Palestine) was the basic element in the agreement between Kastner and the Nazis…In addition to its Extermination Department and Looting Department, the Nazi S.S. opened a Rescue Department headed by Kastner.” 
Judgement given on June 22, 1955, Protocol of Criminal Case 124/53 in District Court, Jerusalem.   Former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir’s organization proposed on Janurary 11, 1941, a formal military pact between his Irgun –a Zionist military organization–and the Third Reich.  In offering to enter the war on the side of Germany, the Irgun proposed that, “The establishment of the historical Jewish State on a national and totalitarian basis, and bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East.”  (see Lenni Brenner, “Zionism in the Age of the Dictators“, p. 49)
 
My cousin escaped Budapest and settled in Jaffa, a former Palestinian city south of Tel Aviv.  His name was Carl Oppenheim. He was not an important person and not part of the deal.
 
I saw him and his son in 1959 in a two room place in what was formerly the Arab quarter. He begged me for $$$ to buy a fridge and was selling silver trinkets to get by. His son was wearing an old shirt of mine that my grandmother had sent in a care package. His son would later be the last soldier to die in the 1967 war. Carl’s brother Anti was a communist and was picked up early for that reason, in 1940 or so. He escaped the labor camp they put him in and fought with the Partisans in the woods throughout the war. He is an historical figure in Hungary. His son Vili, also a communist, is a lawyer, my age.
 
Last week, the mass graves of 200 Palestinians who evidently died in Jaffa during the Nakba were discovered.
  

We have run several pieces on the new film about Hannah Arendt. Here is one, and another and another. A substantial portion of the above post first appeared in Smith’s memoir, published by Smyrna Press in 1992.

About Michael Smith

Michael S. Smith is a lawyer, author and radio host. He can be heard on "Law and Disorder." http://lawanddisorder.org/

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79 Responses

  1. W.Jones
    June 4, 2013, 1:06 pm

    Interesting article.

  2. Citizen
    June 4, 2013, 1:29 pm

    Guess, we can add this to Black’s account, The Transfer Agreement. PS: I’ve seen quite a bit on the internet lately about Hungary turning into an anti-semitic haven. FYI: Hungary leads the list of countries that are the most atheistic and/or agostic.

    • American
      June 4, 2013, 2:26 pm

      I think the zionist and nazi deal is beyond question. I was looking up something Danaa said here recently and I came across a book,.. ‘The Pity of It All’ by Amos Elon…..which also talks it……don’t see any point in anyone trying to deny the Zio-Nazi collaboration any longer..

    • American
      June 4, 2013, 3:01 pm

      About Hungary. I think it is about more than anti semitism….the party the zois are ranting about, the Jobbik, seems to be more about anti globalism, don’t want to be part of EU, says its sucks money out of Hungary, anti the ‘dual’ loyalty politicians, etc….sound a lot like radical libertarian types and they are stepping on some international and crony capitalist(including some Israel cronies) toes and their busness dealings inside Hungary.
      Also like with the German reporter who got put on the anti semite list Hungary has a very popular reporter who has ripped Israel to shreds…..and the Israel Amb has ‘demanded’ the Hungary gov ‘punish him’.lol

      Here’s the Jobbik party leader telling the Israel Amb to shove it:….I like it…can you see a US politican tellng APIAC to shove it?….LOL

      link to jobbik.com

      • Shmuel
        June 4, 2013, 3:48 pm

        Anti-globalisation and anti-EU positions are an integral part of right-wing populism in Europe today (not that there is anything wrong with either position per se), as is the claim to be “neither right nor left” or “beyond the classic paradigm of right and left”. Unfortunately, so is ethnic- nationalism and racism, and in Hungary, that means targeting Roma and Jews. I’m afraid Jobbik is the real deal, whether you find telling the Israeli ambassador to shove it refreshing or not.

      • American
        June 4, 2013, 8:14 pm

        I’m afraid Jobbik is the real deal, whether you find telling the Israeli ambassador to shove it refreshing or not.”’….Shmuel’

        Sorry, but I do find it refreshing to see the Israeli screechers and ‘demanders” told to take hike.

        “Unfortunately, so is ethnic- nationalism and racism, and in Hungary, that means targeting Roma and Jews.”

        Yea, well that’s what the zionist and Israel are all about isnt it…ethnic nationalism and racism? So as we say, where do they get off condemning other ethnic national racist..humm? This pot calling the kettle black is way past getting old.

        You wanna be an ethnic nationalist?…..then you’re gonna get met by other ethnic nationalist asserting and demanding their ‘ethnic rights’ also.

        I saw in the news today that Zionist orgs are ‘demanding’ SOS Kerry and the US State Department ‘do something “about Hungary. LOL So they expect the US to be Israel’s anti semite ‘enforcer”. So what would we do about it…bomb or sanction Hungary?
        The best thing the Anti Semite Industry could do would be to sit down and shut up. The more screeching and demanding and telling other governments what to do and how to handle their own internal affairs regarding Jews or anything else the more resentment they arouse among that country’s population and the more the focus is on Jews.

      • Shmuel
        June 5, 2013, 1:56 am

        You’re right, American. Why go on and on about equality and justice and human rights, when we can just let the ethnic-nationalists duke it out – rooting for “our” side. The enemy of my enemy and all that.

      • American
        June 5, 2013, 2:37 am

        Shmuel says:
        June 5, 2013 at 1:56 am

        You’re right, American. Why go on and on about equality and justice and human rights, when we can just let the ethnic-nationalists duke it out – rooting for “our” side.>>>>>

        We go on and on about justice and equality all the time. And when I say ‘equality I mean equality..as in none of those famous double standards for Hungarian ethnic nationalist and anti semites and Zionist ethnic nationalist and anti otherist …they are ‘equal’ to each other.
        Since the zionist and Israel dont seem to be paying any attention to the objective advise of those of us who aren’t in any ethnic offense or defense movement, all I’m going to say if the ethnic cults end up duking it out with each other is ‘I told you so.’

      • Shmuel
        June 5, 2013, 2:53 am

        And when I say ‘equality I mean equality..as in none of those famous double standards for Hungarian ethnic nationalist and anti semites and Zionist ethnic nationalist and anti otherist …they are ‘equal’ to each other.

        So why the satisfaction and the LOLs? There are two ways of avoiding a double standard: condemning both or tolerating both.

      • American
        June 5, 2013, 5:39 am

        Shmuel says:
        June 5, 2013 at 2:53 am

        So why the satisfaction and the LOLs?
        >>>>>

        Why the satisfaction and the lols?….you have to ask?
        Like the world isn’t’ bombarded every single day with some new zio screed on anti semites and the coming of the second holocaust, a new enemy country every day, a new complaint every day, a demand a day that the world put their ‘hurt feelings’ and 65 year old traumas ahead of their killing and stealing in Palestine, an outrage ‘de jour’ every day over some slight, like the zios aren’t out there defaming, slurring, character assassinating e.v.e.r.y.o.n.e who says the least truthful thing about them and Israel 24/7 day after day, like they aren’t the ultimate in Anti Otherism out there complaining about other Antis?

        And you don’t understand how it could be amusing when someone finally tells one of these hypocritical zio attack dogs to take a flying leap?
        Well, think about it.

      • Shmuel
        June 5, 2013, 6:02 am

        You’ll forgive me if I see absolutely nothing positive (or satisfying or amusing) in one group of racial supremacists telling another to “take a flying leap”. They are both odious and neither offers any sort of solution to the other — although that is precisely what both claim to do. On the contrary, they actually feed off one another, always have and always will.

      • American
        June 5, 2013, 11:26 am

        ”They are both odious and neither offers any sort of solution to the other — although that is precisely what both claim to do”…Shumel

        Well yes, but sometimes a sort of black humor thing occurs in the evil twins fight and you gives you a laugh.

      • Theo
        June 6, 2013, 1:50 pm

        American

        I think I know more about the situation in Hungary than any other commentators here.

        My oldest friend of now since 60 years is a hungarian jew and his parents did return after the infamous act of the SS and the hungarian counterparts.
        Above mentioned 800 thousand perished jews are greatly overstated as there were less jews in Hungary during the war years, not all were deported and many have returned. Even hungarian jewish circles estimate, not the zionists, that not even half of the deported perished, therefore the real figure must be between 200 to 300 thousand.
        It is still a mass murder.

        As far as the Jobbik party goes, they have the same quality as the brownshirts had in Germany, idiots who came to power due to their hate of all foreigners. The country is in a bad financial shape and as always, blame the jews or the gypsies for it. They already killed several gypsies, beating them to death or shooting them.
        If that is your idea of upright political party, then I am very sorry for you.
        You probably would like the KKK just as much.

        As in Hungary, all over in Europe neo-nazi groups are forming, including in Germany, Netherlands and even GB, all blaming the EU for their misery caused by their own politicians.
        Europe had now the longest peace period of its long history and the major reason for it is the EU. No more borders, young people can move freely, study in another land and there are many mixed marriages, a good way to cement international relations.
        If the EU would collaps, there is a real danger of another major war, the brits are sowing the seeds of discontent.

      • Theo
        June 8, 2013, 9:59 am

        After consulting with reliable sources, I must correct my own estimate of jewish deaths in Hungary.
        During 1941 the country had approximately 11 million inhabitants, 2-3% of them jews, meaning there were only 200,000-300,000 jews living there.
        Since at least 50% of the deportees returned after the war, the real number of perished must be around 150,000 maximum, as not all were deported and many had the chance to skip the country.
        Not a pretty picture, but the 800,000 is a greatly overblown number, only a fraction of it lived in Hungary.

      • Danaa
        June 4, 2013, 4:10 pm

        More about Hungary: the quote I saw from jobbik was specifically addressing peres’ ill-conceived remarks about israeli real estate doing brusk business buying properties in Hungary, Romania, poland etc. This remark did not go down well in any of those countries, all of which are reeling under the current recession. In what universe would a “property-buying spree” during a severe recession not be viewed as exploitation? Speak to any Hungarian (don’t forget your dictionary! not so many of the older people speak good English, alas, though they often speak and understand German. Generally, the younger they are the better versed in English). I bet you’ll get one of those “blank” stares when the name of Israel comes up. Their reputation is simply not very good there, for any number of reasons, having more to do with the behavior of the country and its representatives and oligarchs than with anything Jewish.

        Two asides: (1) in my own Hungarian household, the name “Kastner’ was whispered, so the children wouldn’t hear. All of us who grew up Israeli among those family strands who came from Hungary, Romania and Czhechoslovakia, only knew the name Kastner as something dark that is best not spoken about. Our parents never answered any questions that I know of, even when newspapers in israel were full of details of the libel trial. The adults spoke among themselves in hushed tones, glancing furtively over their shoulder to make sure the children are not around. Either that or they retreated into speaking in one of the languages we were never taught (such as German). We always knew there was some “bad business” there and forever I’ve come to associate whatever it was with something mysterious, foreboding and “German”. If any of the older children asked a teacher, they would get the same non-answer – it’s not for them to know. Kind of like the “Esek Bish”, the Lavon affair. Another topic spoken about furtively. I would love to say I was enough of a non-conformist to ask, even as a child. Alas, I seem to have limited my budding non-conformism to “safer” topics, like the pointlessness of religion and the pointfulness of sex. At least that beget ‘simple” embarrassment rather than that infinitely pained look, which would be quite unbearable.
        (2) Second aside to American – I finished reading “The Pity of it All” about 6 months ago. The book resonated with me because it brought back memories of nostalgia for those “Lost Worlds” – the eventful, ever-so-cultured lives of the assimilated cosmopolitan Jewish people who lived and prospered in the great Capitals of Europe: Berlin, Budapest, Prague, Vienna. And it is not just the jewish inhabitants that were pulled asunder during the war. It was an entire millieu and its optimism, humor and reverence of all things beautiful and smart. A way of life that stood somehow in start opposition to the coarseness and noisiness of life in Israel. Fruits of the Enlightment, gone all cynical and faded by the time I came to know of it. The book made me inexplicably sad.

      • lysias
        June 4, 2013, 4:19 pm

        About that lost world, Stefan Zweig’s Die Welt von Gestern [The World of Yesterday] is a great book.

      • seafoid
        June 4, 2013, 4:51 pm

        Danaa

        Did you ever read “Konin”?
        There will always be an emptiness in Eastern Europe because of what the Nazis and their collaborators did. And Zionism will never replace it.

      • American
        June 4, 2013, 8:37 pm

        “The Pity of it All” about 6 months ago. The book resonated with me because it brought back memories of nostalgia for those “Lost Worlds” – Danaa….

        Me too….the more I get into that era the more nostalgic I get for a whole different world gone by. ..in many ways a much more culturally important world than the one we are in today.

        Secondly…
        “In what universe would a “property-buying spree” during a severe recession not be viewed as exploitation?”..Danaa

        I guess some on here aren’t old enough to remember the furor in the US when the Japanese went on a RE buying spree in the US in the 80′s at the height of Japan’s economic boom. People were boycotting Japanese imports and cars and etc. to express their resentment of the Japanese ‘takeover’. And much like Peres’ bragging remark , a Japanese minister’s unwise remark about Japan’s buying spree in the US kicked started the whole furor over it…if he hadn’t said it and the media hadnt flashed it around the country then most likley no one in the public except those who read the business news would have even noticed. But the public did see it and took it as an insult and revolted against ‘furigners’ buying up America.

      • MRW
        June 4, 2013, 10:49 pm

        Their reputation is simply not very good there, for any number of reasons, having more to do with the behavior of the country and its representatives and oligarchs than with anything Jewish.

        I have some Hungarian/Romanian (Jewish) friends who fell on hard times here during the GFC and moved back to a family home there. They talk now about using a horse and buggy to get groceries from town, and kinda like it…it’s to save gas. When they got there (initially in Budapest), they were horrified by Jobbik, terrified. They thought the world was going to end, ignite. But now their insights are more nuanced.

        In the early 90s after Russia fell, the poorer Hungarians avoided starving to death because they could grow tomatoes and cucumbers and other vegetables in their backyards. They could feed themselves. There is no love lost for the Russians and that includes the Russian oligarchs hiding out in Israel who think their Jewishness and Eastern European-ness binds them to the old country with impunity.

        Now my friends understand that the complaints, while nationalistic, are not religion-based, allaying their fears somewhat, and from what I have been able to determine, match what Danaa is saying in that quote above. My friends live in the Carpathian Mountains, which they call hauntingly beautiful and majestic. Foreigners are buying up some of the best land (Prince Charles included) and flaunting fancy cars and, to them, vulgar blinginess, and they’re rude. They don’t come to Rome as Romans, as they say.

      • Annie Robbins
        June 4, 2013, 11:55 pm

        It was an entire millieu and its optimism, humor and reverence of all things beautiful and smart. …. Fruits of the Enlightment, gone all cynical and faded by the time I came to know of it. The book made me inexplicably sad.

        i have not read the book, but this is how i think of that era so full of creativity, intellect and passion.. wiped out. sometimes a time and place w/the right people captures everything in life to the fullest.

      • MRW
        June 6, 2013, 12:47 am

        Here is an example of what Danaa is talking about:

        Hungarian site
        link to index.hr
        Haaretz
        link to haaretz.com

        link to worldpropertychannel.com

      • Danaa
        June 6, 2013, 1:22 am

        lysias, seafoid, thanks for the book recommendations. Will check them out when the chance presents itself (I hope they are not too sad though!).

        MRW, interesting story about your friends returning to Romania/Hungary. I have heard similar stories about the foreigners (of all sorts, many pre-war ex-pats) going on property buying binges, causing an unwelcome rise in property prices, and often showing little respect for local values a, customs and sensitivities. Like everywhere else in Eastern Europe, Russia included. ,

      • Citizen
        June 6, 2013, 6:19 am

        Another great book: The Lost Library–The Autobiography of a Culture, by Walter Mehring (English Translation, 1951). I got it out-of-pring, back in 1977.

      • Citizen
        June 6, 2013, 6:35 am

        oops I mean out-of-print

      • Theo
        June 6, 2013, 2:06 pm

        Today about 200,000 jews live in Budapest, the city has the second largest synagoge in the world after NYC, the only school for rabbies in eastern Europe.

        The big problems are caused by the israeli businessmen, they buy up everything, including the land, causing huge price increases.
        Although the laws prohibit foreigners to buy farm land in Hungary, they use many illegal ways to do it.
        Example: older hungarian couples get the money to buy it and in their testament they leave it to an israeli business.
        No wonder the Jobbik party has such a success.

        The speech of Peres saying that: “we bought Hungary, we bought Poland, we control the Wall Street” did not help either.
        You can find it on YouTube.

      • hophmi
        June 4, 2013, 5:06 pm

        “Here’s the Jobbik party leader telling the Israel Amb to shove it:….I like it…can you see a US politican tellng APIAC to shove it?….LOL”

        It’s interesting that you like the radical, antisemitic Jobbik party. It explains a lot.

        “I think the zionist and nazi deal is beyond question.”

        Which is why Edwin Black has repeatedly repudiated the misuse of his book here.

      • American
        June 5, 2013, 2:48 am

        ‘It’s interesting that you like the radical, antisemitic Jobbik party. It explains a lot.”…hoppie

        Did I say I like the Jobbik party?…no I said they sounded like ” radical ” Libertarians… I’m not a fan of radical Libertarians or ethnic nationalist….one reason I dont like the zionist either in case you havent noticed…LOL
        But nice try.
        But I did like the Jobbik guy telling off the Israel Amb…should happen more often to more of them when they start their ranting on other countries.

      • MRW
        June 5, 2013, 7:11 am

        Which is why Edwin Black has repeatedly repudiated the misuse of his book here.

        Read the original AND the footnotes, if you can find it. Black has become dishonest.

      • Citizen
        June 6, 2013, 6:37 am

        The original edition of Black’s book speaks for itself. You know, like the Goldstone Report? It’s hard on one who grew up in a tight group when that one gets shunned.

      • lysias
        June 7, 2013, 4:40 pm

        I got the impression from reading the second edition of Black’s book that he was Goldstoned, and that that was why he repudiated the first edition.

        But even that second edition speaks for itself.

      • atime forpeace
        June 5, 2013, 10:41 am

        Jobbik is just another example of ‘Blowback’ in spades is being dealt around the world.

  3. hophmi
    June 4, 2013, 1:32 pm

    Michael Smith is a whackjob who thinks JFK and MLK were killed by the US government.

    Keep helpin’ those Palestinians, guys. Let me know when somebody outside of your cult buys this BS narrative.

    • marc b.
      June 4, 2013, 2:41 pm

      so, Zionists didn’t cooperate with wwii-era fascists? and Zionists didn’t intentionally select ‘healthier’ specimens of jewish victims of the holocaust when deciding who could immigrate to Palestine and who could not, both during and after wwii? oh, sorry, you were just attempting to smear the author without offering any response of substance.

      hophmi is a whackjob who thinks that Israelis have a right to steal from and to persecute Palestinians because the mufti said bad things about jews in the 40s.

    • lysias
      June 4, 2013, 3:25 pm

      Michael Smith is a whackjob who thinks JFK and MLK were killed by the US government.

      The true whackjobs are the people who think they were killed by the people the government blamed.

      • Citizen
        June 6, 2013, 6:44 am

        There’s a reason why all governments classify so much of their records mostly to keep government activity far from the eyes of their fellow citizens, who, in theory, rule in a democracy through informed consent.

        Any government activity with controversial political overtones invites conspiracy theories because those government records are classified. FOIA is costly and the juicy content arrives largely blacked out.

    • Hostage
      June 4, 2013, 5:17 pm

      Keep helpin’ those Palestinians, guys. Let me know when somebody outside of your cult buys this BS narrative.

      Hophmi we all know that Ben Gurion said a lot worse things than the quote cited above. That particular episode has even been cited in works by reputable Zionist historians, like Yoav Gelber. Here is another version from historian Martin Gilbert and the New York Times:

      Ben-Gurion returned to Palestine on the eve of World War II convinced that Britain would now never agree to a Jewish majority in Palestine. Immediately after his return he told a secret meeting of his party: ”If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”

      Israel Was Everything, June 21, 1987 link to nytimes.com

      Sadly enough, Gilbert took Ben Gurion’s biographer, Shabatai Teveth, to task in the same article for saying:

      ”Two facts can be definitively stated: Ben-Gurion did not put the rescue effort above Zionist politics, and he did not regard it as a principal task demanding his personal leadership; he never saw fit to explain why, then or later.” It was not rescue, says Teveth, but the rallying of world Jewry and especially Palestinian Jewry to the creation of a Jewish state, to which Ben-Gurion ”devoted his efforts.”

      I’ve cited portions of a book written by long time Haaretz contributor and journalist Evron Boas which prove that was a guarded understatement of the role played by Ben Gurion in scuttling efforts to rescue European Jews. He quotes the minutes of the meeting of the Zionist Executive and a letter in the collection of Rabbi Stephen Wise revealing efforts to derail the agenda of the Evian Conference to assist war victims and refugees. See the comment here: link to mondoweiss.net

      In any event,
      1) Kastner wasn’t assassinated by skeptics or the authors here at Mondoweiss;
      2) The Jewish man who was convicted of murdering Kastner insisted that he didn’t act alone and that another man fired the fatal shot;
      3) Oceans of ink have been spilled by Jewish historians who agree that Ben Gurion was furious over the scandal that had tarnished the image of the Jewish Agency and senior members of the Labor party. So he ordered the government to undertake a lawsuit against Greenwald and managed to obtain a Supreme Court verdict that exonerated Kastner postumously.
      4) It didn’t last for long though, because Eichmann verified the details of the deal with Kastner in an interview with Life Magazine, vol. 49, n° 22. link to nizkor.org

      The account about the letter from LEHI offering a pact with the Nazis is equally authentic and unsurprising, since the Jewish Agency and WZO had entered into their own business partnership with the Third Reich.

      • hophmi
        June 4, 2013, 5:24 pm

        “Hophmi we all know that Ben Gurion said a lot worse things than the quote cited above. ”

        We all know that both sides can cherry pick quotes, and we all know that Edwin Black has excoriated this site for misusing his work.

        Again, if you think alleging ties between Zionist and Nazis, a narrative repudiated by most of the civilized world, helps the Palestinians, you go right ahead, and I’ll go right ahead laughing at you as you further marginalize yourself and your movement.

      • MRW
        June 5, 2013, 7:12 am

        Again, if you think alleging ties between Zionist and Nazis, a narrative repudiated by most of the civilized world

        No, it’s not.

      • Hostage
        June 5, 2013, 2:31 pm

        We all know that both sides can cherry pick quotes, and we all know that Edwin Black has excoriated this site for misusing his work.

        In recent years Edwin Black has become a hasbara echo chamber. He peddles the discredited Zionist historiography and founding myths about the Mufti & etc., while carefully avoiding all of the evidence from the declassified official sources, including Ben Gurion’s own diaries and the minutes of the Knesset debates, that have long-since debunked his version of events.

      • Hostage
        June 5, 2013, 2:48 pm

        Again, if you think alleging ties between Zionist and Nazis, a narrative repudiated by most of the civilized world, helps the Palestinians, you go right ahead, and I’ll go right ahead laughing at you as you further marginalize yourself and your movement.

        You can’t have it both ways Hophmi. Edwin Black’s only claim to fame is the work he did exposing and documenting some of the disturbing details of the lengthy formal business partnership between the WZO/Jewish Agency and the Third Reich. The only sad part is that he didn’t do a better job explaining that it only rescued money from Germany and didn’t really save anyone’s life.

        Just to refresh your failing memory about that: The fact that the World Zionist Organization had a business partnership with The Third Reich is no secret, it’s a matter of public record. The World Zionist Congress discovered that its subsidiary, the Anglo-Palestine Bank, had a barter agreement with the Third Reich that was not limited to transactions involving the assets of German Jewish refugees. In fact, the Bank was serving as Hitler’s agent in sales transactions of manufactured goods with other countries. The Zionist Executive decided to take direct control of the agreement from the Haavara Ltd. trustee in order to end that practice:

        Late last night, amid tumultuous scenes during which delegates of the Jewish State Party shouting “Hitler Agents buy German goods!” demonstratively left the hall, the Congress adopted a resolution favoring the continuance of the Palestine-German barter agreement. The Congress decision, however, removes control of the transfer from the Haavara, special trustee office created for the execution of the pact, and lodges supreme control with the World Zionist Executive.

        Rabbi Silver informed the Congress that the committee had adopted a series of resolutions in connection with the barter pact which were not publishable, but which guaranteed that the transfer be limited only to transactions involving the capital of German-Jewish immigrants and that no goods imported from Germany through the transfer agreement can be sold in countries neighboring Palestine, he said.

        – Jewish Telegraphic Agency, Favor Transfer Agreement Continuance, September 4, 1935 link to archive.jta.org

      • MRW
        June 5, 2013, 8:24 pm

        Amen, Hostage.

        EDIT: re: 2:31 pm comment

    • MRW
      June 4, 2013, 11:01 pm

      hophmi, you living in Israel yet, or are you still lawyering?

    • tree
      June 5, 2013, 12:48 am

      Anyone wanting more information on the Kastner trial can find it here, from the late Akiva Orr:

      link to kasztnerinfo.files.wordpress.com

    • Qualtrough
      June 5, 2013, 12:56 am

      hophmi–you keep doing this and it is getting annoying. Instead of engaging in argumentum ad hominem, why don’t you address the issues raised? Such as: Are the allegations of Zionist collaboration with the Nazis true or false? Did Ben-Gurion say that, or not? Since you so frequently engage in arguing against the character or background of the person rather than address their argument or facts, I can’t help but surmise that you know what they are saying is true and you have no other argument against it. If you are going to argue effectively for Zionism you need to start addressing the issues and facts and stop the diversion tactics.

      • marc b.
        June 5, 2013, 8:40 am

        why don’t you address the issues raised?

        because the facts don’t support his narrative. instead he invents the results of imaginary international polls of opinion conducted in ‘most of the civilized world’, on topics that perhaps 1-in-10 (at best) has ever read a page of history about. and you see, the opinion of ‘most of the civilized world’ is very important to hopee, except when it isn’t, like when ‘most of the civilized world’ is critical of Israel’s occupation of the w.bank or blockade of gaza or attack(s) on Lebanon.

  4. dimadok
    June 4, 2013, 1:38 pm

    Ben Gurion quote is an antisemitic fake:
    link to liberology.wordpress.com
    “World Zionist Organization sabotaged world Jewry’s attempt to boycott the Nazi economy in order to be allowed to send money from Germany to Palestine’-fake
    link to yadvashem.org

    • Annie Robbins
      June 4, 2013, 2:18 pm

      dim, i am reading your link and camera’s explanation and they are saying the quote was cherry picked and taken out of context:

      By cherry-picking a single comment, removing it from its context, and ignoring other comments made by Ben Gurion that directly contradict this interpretation, the author distorts history.

      so he said it, he just didn’t mean what it sounds like it means?

      According to the records of the Mapai meeting, Yitzchak Ben Zvi immediately clarified Ben Gurion’s brusque remark

      so contrary to your assertion, the quote is not actually ‘fake’, or made up..is it?

      • eljay
        June 4, 2013, 2:29 pm

        dimadokeee doesn’t like “antisemitic fake” quotes, but he has no problem with the distortion of Ahmadinejad’s quote about the passing of the Zio-supremacist regime (a good thing) into a Hitlerian call for the genocide of Jews (a very bad thing).

        Smells of hypocriseee…

      • hophmi
        June 4, 2013, 5:07 pm

        ” he has no problem with the distortion of Ahmadinejad’s quote about the passing of the Zio-supremacist regime ”

        Correction: He has no problem quoting the official Iranian translation of it, or noting the fact that calling for the annihilation of Israel is nothing new in Iran.

      • eljay
        June 5, 2013, 7:57 am

        >> Correction: He has no problem quoting the official Iranian translation of it …

        Please provide a link to an official translation of Ahmadinejad’s comment that has him clearly and unequivocally calling for the genocide of Jews.

        I don’t believe such an official translation exists, or that Ahmadinejad has ever said such a thing, but I could be mistaken.

    • yourstruly
      June 4, 2013, 2:44 pm

      also in the 2nd link, a report from the Shoah Resource Center, its concluding remark – “The sorrowful impotence of the boycott movement in contrast to the practicality of Zionist formula” – discounts the possibility that the movement’s impact might have been much more significant, had not Zionist leadership opposed it and supported the Transfer Agreement instead.

      • lysias
        June 4, 2013, 3:29 pm

        It would have been highly significant. Black’s book The Transfer Agreement is not the only book that emphasizes how fragile the economic position of Germany in the early months of Hitler’s rule was. You can also read it in a standard history of Hitler’s early years in power like Heinz Höhne’s ‘Gebt mir vier Jahre Zeit’ ["Give Me Four Years"].

        If the boycott had been allowed to succeed, there is every chance Hitler’s government would have fallen.

    • Hostage
      June 4, 2013, 6:01 pm

      Ben Gurion quote is an antisemitic fake:

      If you read my comment above, you’ll note that the quote has been cited by Zionist historians, including Martin Gilbert and Yoav Gelbert and published in the New York Times.

      • DICKERSON3870
        June 4, 2013, 6:36 pm

        RE: “Ben Gurion quote is an antisemitic fake: If you read my comment above, you’ll note that the quote has been cited by Zionist historians, including Martin Gilbert and Yoav Gelbert…..” ~ Hostage

        MY REPLY: Not to mention Tom Segev in ‘The Seventh Million’! ! !

        SEE: “The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict”, Third Edition (2001), Published by ‘Jews for Justice in the Middle East’:

        [EXCERPTS] . . . “In 1938 a thirty-one nation conference was held in Evian, France, on resettlement of the victims of Nazism. The World Zionist Organization refused to participate, fearing that resettlement of Jews in other states would reduce the number available for Palestine.” ~ John Quigley, ‘Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice’
        “It was summed up in the meeting [of the Jewish Agency’s Executive on June 26, 1938] that the Zionist thing to do ‘is belittle the [Evian] Conference as far as possible and to cause it to decide nothing… ~ Israeli author Boas Evron, ‘Jewish State or Israeli Nation?’
        “[Ben-Gurion stated] ‘If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, but only half of them by transporting them to Palestine, I would choose the second — because we face not only the reckoning of those children, but the historical reckoning of the Jewish people.’ In the wake of the Kristallnacht pogroms, Ben-Gurion commented that ‘the human conscience’ might bring various countries to open their doors to Jewish refugees from Germany. He saw this as a threat and warned: ‘Zionism is in danger.’” ~ Israeli historian, Tom Segev, ‘The Seventh Million’

        ● Roosevelt’s advisor writes on why Jewish refugees were not offered sanctuary in the U.S. after WWII …

        “[Roosevelt] proposed a world budget for the easy migration of the 500,000 beaten people of Europe. Each nation should open its doors for some thousands of refugees… So he suggested that during my trips for him to England during the war I sound out in a general, unofficial manner the leaders of British public opinion, in and out of the government…The simple answer: Great Britain will match the United States, man for man, in admissions from Europe…It seemed all settled. With the rest of the world probably ready to give haven to 200,000, there was a sound reason for the President to press Congress to take in at least 150,000 immigrants after the war…
        “It would free us from the hypocrisy of closing our own doors while making sanctimonious demands on the Arabs… But it did not work out…The failure of the leading Jewish organizations to support with zeal this immigration programme may have caused the President not to push forward with it at that time…
        “I talked to many people active in Jewish organizations. I suggested the plan…I was amazed and even felt insulted when active Jewish leaders decried, sneered, and then attacked me as if I were a traitor… I think I know the reason for much of the opposition. There is a deep, genuine, often fanatical emotional vested interest in putting over the Palestinian movement [Zionism]. Men like Ben Hecht are little concerned about human blood if it is not their own.” ~ Jewish attorney and friend of President Roosevelt, Morris Ernst, ‘So Far, So Good’

        ENTIRE “ORIGIN” BOOKLET – link to archive.org

      • dimadok
        June 4, 2013, 7:45 pm

        @Hostage
        Here is the response to Gilbert’s article:
        link to nytimes.com

      • marc b.
        June 5, 2013, 8:27 am

        so you call the Ben-Gurion quote an ‘anti-semitic fake’, and then post a ‘response to gilbert’s article’ which confirms the substance and context of Ben-Gurion’s statement?

      • Hostage
        June 5, 2013, 1:57 pm

        @Hostage
        Here is the response to Gilbert’s article:
        link to nytimes.com

        Here is my response to that. Ben Gurion’s remark was only a rhetorical device, since we know that he never even tried to bring all of the Jewish victims of the war to Palestine.

        More to the point, neither Gilbert nor the author of the letter to the editors of the Times that you just cite questioned the historical accuracy of the Ben Gurion quote or claim that its use by others, including Ben Gurion’s biographer, historian Shabatai Teveth, is somehow “antisemitic”, i.e. :

        In his review of Shabtai Teveth’s ”Ben-Gurion: The Burning Ground 1886-1948” (June 21) Martin Gilbert mistakenly reports that Mr. Teveth does not cite David Ben-Gurion’s controversial remark to a 1938 Mapai Central Committee meeting: ”If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.” The quotation does appear (in a slightly different translation) on pages 855-56 of Mr. Teveth’s text. I might add that, given Ben-Gurion’s Zionist convictions, there is nothing especially surprising about the sentiment he expressed on that occasion. Mr. Teveth rightly points out that, for Ben-Gurion the Zionist, only a Jewish state could provide an enduring and authentic resolution to the Jewish question. Any rescue operation outside the Zionist framework was – in Ben-Gurion’s words – ”witch doctor’s medicine” that would only perpetuate the misery of the Jewish people

        link to nytimes.com

        So many miserable Jewish survivors of the war can thank God there were righteous Gentiles with ”witch doctor’s medicine”, because Ben Gurion and his cohorts had no desire to bring the “human dust” of Europe to their new Utopian Jewish state in Palestine:

        It was to be anticipated, Dr. Weizmann said, that at the end of the war there would be at least 2,500,000 Jews seeking refuge. Of these perhaps 1,000,000 would represent Jews with a future and the others Jews whose lives were behind them-”who were but little more than dust”. He believed that it would be possible to settle in Palestine 1,000,000 of these refugees, so far as possible those with a future, one-fourth on the land, the remainder as an addition to the urban population.

        link to digicoll.library.wisc.edu

        Boaz Evron’s book that I cited in the link above documents that the Jewish Agency’s Executive met on June 26, 1938 to discuss the Evian Conference goal of raising Allied attention to address the need for efforts and funding in order to resettle endangered Jews in other countries. Evron wrote that: “It was summed up in the meeting that the Zionist thing to do ‘is belittle the Conference as far as possible and to cause it to decide nothing’.

        “We are particularly worried that it would move Jewish organizations to collect large sums of money for aid to Jewish refugees, and these collections could interfere with our collection effort.” Ben Gurion said “No rationalization can turn the conference from a harmful to a useful one. What can and should be done is to limit the damage as far as possible.”

        At the same time, there was no Haavara Agreement with Hitler to bring poor Jewish children to Palestine. The Jewish Agency partnership with the Third Reich only dealt with rich persons who could deposit a sum greater than the regular limit imposed by the German currency control statute. The Haavara Agreement was implemented by Circular 54/1933 of the Reich Ministry of Finance, August 28, 1933. It stipulated that, in cases where the German Emigration Advisory Office confirmed on behalf of a wealthy Jew that “further sums of money were necessary and adequate for the purpose of starting a new life in Palestine” that such a person could be granted an additional excess sum in any amount on condition that it was paid at the Reichsbank into the Special Jewish Trust Account.

        But if an individual didn’t have an excess sum or the 1,000 Palestinian pounds required to obtain a “capitalist” immigrant certificate from the British mandatory authorities, the Haavara agreement was completely irrelevant. Ben Gurion was using his money to purchase arms and equipment to manufacture weapons, not to rescue Jews.

      • dimadok
        June 5, 2013, 4:44 pm

        @Hostage
        You are perverting and projecting here-not the surviving Jews were human dust, but rather their lives, shattered by the Holocaust.
        As for the Haavara agreement- it is the ONLY evidence of direct talks between the Yishuv leaders and Third Reich, aiming to promote the export of German goods, German Jewish immigration and encouraging the fund deposits in Germany to be paid by the Temple bank and later by the Anglo-Palestine bank. Nice scheme of keeping the local currency inside the Germany while expanding to the new markets.
        Seems like the headline from the current Wall Street journal, describing economic policies of some countries.

      • Hostage
        June 6, 2013, 12:26 pm

        @Hostage You are perverting and projecting here-not the surviving Jews were human dust, but rather their lives, shattered by the Holocaust.

        I’m not projecting at all. I quoted what the hard-hearted President of the WZO, and first President of the State of Israel, said to the US State Department in 1942 verbatim.

        He said that only 1 million of the estimated 2.5 million Jewish people who would be seeking refuge after the war had a future – and that he believed that it would be possible to settle in Palestine 1,000,000 of these refugees, so far as possible those with a future.

        Weizmann and Ben Gurion had already participated in efforts to scuttle the Evian Conference and sealed the fate of the millions of Jewish refugees whose lives he claimed were behind them – who were but little more than dust without a future. In the passage from Evron’s book that I cited above, he quotes from a letter written by Georg Landauer, the managing director of the Jewish Agency Central Bureau for the Settlement of German Jews, to Rabbi Stephen Wise, the Co-Chair of the American Zionist Emergency Council, dated February 13, 1938:

        I am writing this letter at the request of Dr. Weizmann because we are extremely concerned lest the problem be presented in a way which would prejudice the activity for Eretz Israel. Even if the conference does not propose immediately after its opening other countries but Eretz Israel as venues for Jewish emigration, it will certainly arouse a public response that could put the importance of Eretz Israel in the shade. . . . We are particularly worried that it would move Jewish organizations to collect large sums of money for the aid of Jewish refugees, and these collection efforts would interfere with our collection efforts.

        You and Hophmi have accused us of cherry picking quotes. But neither of you can provide a single redeeming quote to salvage the reputations of Ben Gurion or Weizmann in connection with the Evian affair. Neither man ever tried to transport all or even half of the children of Germany to safety in England or Palestine. Both men actually went out of their way to make certain that no one else would either.

      • Hostage
        June 6, 2013, 12:41 pm

        As for the Haavara agreement- it is the ONLY evidence of direct talks between the Yishuv leaders and Third Reich, aiming to promote the export of German goods, German Jewish immigration and encouraging the fund deposits in Germany to be paid by the Temple bank and later by the Anglo-Palestine bank.

        Talks? You’re completely clueless. Haavara Ltd was a subsidiary of the WZO. I cited a JTA story which explained that direct control was transferred from the WZO’s Anglo-Palestine Bank subsidiary to the members of the WZO Executive as a result of confidential resolutions that weren’t made available for publication. I’ve also pointed out in other comments that Israel’s own State Commission noted that Haavara and partners charged refugees one-third of the amount transferred as a exchange fee. Other refugee groups received similar treatment from the Anglo-Palestine Bank’s successor in interest, Bank Leumi. It concealed a huge number of refugee accounts for decades and never disgorged the windfall profits they earned.

      • Obsidian
        June 6, 2013, 2:34 pm

        @Hostage

        Who DIDN’T have contacts with the Nazis?

        The Soviets did. England’s House of Windsor did. IBM did. Charles Crane of the infamous King-Crane Commission did. The Vichy French did. Neville Chamberlain did. Col. Richard Meinertzhagen did. The Ivy League did.

        But for this website, and you, it’s just the Jews.

      • Hostage
        June 7, 2013, 9:20 am

        @Hostage Who DIDN’T have contacts with the Nazis?

        Correction: I didn’t say that the Zionist Organization merely had contacts. They had a contractual agreement and were full business partners with the Third Reich. Their subsidiaries brought discredit upon the movement because they were serving as Hitler’s sales agents in the middle of a world wide boycott against Germany and were doing so in connection with transactions that had nothing to do with transferring funds to Palestine for German Jews.

        It’s amazing that Zionists have filed lawsuits against companies, like IBM, for doing business with the Third Reich, when their own subsidiaries were prime examples of the practice.

      • Obsidian
        June 7, 2013, 10:37 am

        Right. After much internal debate, the Zionist Organization opted to make a deal with the devil in order to facilitate German Jewish immigration to Palestine. Had this ‘partnership’ not taken place, several thousand German awould surely have perished.

        A lawsuit was filed against IBM and dismissed, probably discouraging any subsequent litigation against the 100 other US companies that did business with the nazis.

        I point out a dozen nations, businesses, politicians and private individuals who had contacts with the nazis and you bring right back to the Jews.

      • Hostage
        June 8, 2013, 8:31 am

        Right. After much internal debate, the Zionist Organization opted to make a deal with the devil in order to facilitate German Jewish immigration to Palestine.

        That’s completely false. I’ve already pointed out that the Haavara Ltd agreement with the Third Reich did nothing at all for Jews who couldn’t afford to immigrate. It was only about circumventing the currency limits in order for wealthy Jews to get their additional sums of money out of Germany. It strictly dealt with capital transfer, not population transfer.

        Had this ‘partnership’ not taken place, several thousand German awould surely have perished. . . . . I point out a dozen nations, businesses, politicians and private individuals who had contacts with the nazis and you bring right back to the Jews.

        I’ll paste the text of the German directive that implemented the agreement, so you can see that it had nothing to do with getting immigrants out of the country. It only dealt with getting additional money out of the country. If 1) the Germans had setup extermination camps for German IBM employees; and 2) the IBM Board of Directors continued to do business there – despite a worldwide call to boycott the Third Reich by non-German IBM employees; and 3) IBM had setup Holocaust Museums on its campuses; then I’d damn sure be bringing it back to both Haavara Ltd. and IBM. But the fact is that “Haavara” was intended to undermine the efficacy of the worldwide Jewish-led boycott of the Third Reich. It was a supreme act of betrayal.
        ================================================
        Circular 54/1933 of the Reich Ministry of Finance, August 28, 1933

        To further the cause of Jewish emigration to Palestine through allocation of the necessary sums of money, without putting too much strain on the currency reserves of the Reich and simultaneously increasing German exports to Palestine, an agreement has been reached with the appropriate Jewish authorities. It is based on the following conditions:

        Emigrants on whose behalf the Emigration Advisory Office confirms that further sums of money are necessary and adequate for the purpose of starting a new life in Palestine, and that the minimum amount of 1000 PP [Palestinian Pounds] required for immigration into Palestine is insufficient, may be granted an additional sum in excess of the 15,000 RM on condition that it is paid at the Reichsbank into the Special Account I of the Bank of the Temple Corporation [German colonists bank in Palestine] and credited to a trust company in Palestine specially set up for this purpose (or to the Anglo-Palestine Bank until the Jewish trust company has been set up). A total sum of 3 million RM has been designated initially for this Special Account I and for a Special Account II mentioned below; it is to be operated by the Temple Bank as a trust account for the above mentioned Jewish Trust Company. This account is to be used to pay for German goods delivered to Palestine. Emigrants will be paid the equivalent of their deposits by the Palestine trust company [less the one-third exchange fee] according to the funds available from the sale of German goods to Palestine. This will occur in the order and proportion of the payments made into the Special Account I and paid out in Palestine Pounds. The “Palestina-Treuhandstelle zur Beratung deutscher Juden GmbH” [Paltreu, Palestine Trust Office for Advice to German Jews] has been founded in Berlin, Friedrichstrasse 218, to advise German Jews in matters concerning this form of capital transfer to Palestine. I request that particular attention is to be drawn to this organization when authorization [for capital transfer to Palestine] is being granted.

        Furthermore, a Special Account II has been opened at the Reichsbank on behalf of the bank of the Temple Organization. On application the exchange regulation authorities may grant permission to German Jewish nationals, who have not yet emigrated but who are already planning a new existence in Palestine, to deposit up to 50,000 RM per person into this account (and similarly credit it to a German-Jewish trust company to be founded in Palestine or to the Anglo-Palestine Bank Ltd. until this has been founded).

      • Obsidian
        June 8, 2013, 12:01 pm

        @Hostage

        Okay. Haavara benefited rich German Jews.

        Now. Did rich $$$ German Jews$$ emigrate to Palestine as a direct consequence of the Haavara Agreement. Yes or no?

      • Hostage
        June 9, 2013, 1:24 am

        Now. Did rich $$$ German Jews$$ emigrate to Palestine as a direct consequence of the Haavara Agreement. Yes or no?

        Read the German Directive for yourself. Nothing prevented them from posting the sum of 1000 Palestinian Pounds and emigrating to Palestine before the Haavara agreement went into effect.

        It merely allowed them to transfer larger sums of capital out of the country indirectly through the Nazi-Zionist partnership. If that “saved” any lives, then the persons involved placed a higher value on their money than escaping with their lives. There was nothing noble about this deal with the devil. The Jewish Agency could have deposited money from the United Jewish Appeal to pay for poor emigres who couldn’t afford a capitalist visa, but they adamantly refused to do that.

      • Obsidian
        June 9, 2013, 2:53 am

        @Hostage

        We’re going over the same old ground.

        “The money that the Transfer Agreement would bring to the Yishuv was needed to help build the economic infrastructure with which the country could absorb the out-flux of Jews from Germany. –The Transfer Agreement and the Boycott Movement: A Jewish Dilemma on the Eve of the Holocaust, Yf’aat Weiss.

        It cost money to absorb immigrants to Palestine. Where was the money going to come from to help the Yishuv absorb the German-Jewish immigrants?

      • Obsidian
        June 9, 2013, 8:33 am

        @Hostage

        “Unquestionably, without the Transfer Agreement, German Jewry’s property-and the people it sustained-would have been completely liquidated by the Nazis.”–Black, Edwin, The Transfer Agreement–25th Anniversary, page 381.

        What now, Hostage?

  5. Mike_Konrad
    June 4, 2013, 5:45 pm

    Kastner’s conviction was later overturned by the Israeli Supreme Court.

    • Hostage
      June 5, 2013, 2:21 pm

      Kastner’s conviction was later overturned by the Israeli Supreme Court.

      Correction: Kastner was a Jewish Agency official and a member of Prime Minister Ben Gurion’s office intellegence staff. There was never any danger of him being charged or convicted under the Nazi and Nazi Collaborators Act by Ben Gurion’s Attorney General. In his book on the subject, “Perfidy”, author Ben Hecht spilled a great deal of ink explaining that the Attorney General went after Malchiel Greenwald for slandering and libeling Kastner. In the decision of the lower Courts on the Greenwald case, it was held that Kastner had sold his soul to the Nazis, but he was never prosecuted because the decision was appealed.

      FYI, in 1958 the Supreme Court was only looking at Greenwald’s testimony and the pamphlet that he had published in connection with the libel case. There was never a proper government criminal investigation of Kastner – and of course the Supreme Court didn’t have the damning evidence contained in the Eichmann interview that confirmed Greenwald’s claims.

    • Annie Robbins
      June 5, 2013, 3:00 pm

      Ben Hecht’s book Perfidy about the trial is available on line for free here:

      link to hirhome.com

      mike, if you’re interested in the trial i urge you to read it and i strongly urge anyone who reads the book to read the footnotes, the judges remarks are there, along with other vital information from the trial as well as letters. and read Judge Moshe Silberg’s comments starting at the bottom of page 243. it’s horrible what happened there. there is nothing i have ever read about the holocaust worse than what happened to the jews in hungary.

      • marc b.
        June 5, 2013, 4:57 pm

        that is an excellent read, annie, although Hecht was something of a racist himself. what is most interesting about the history of WWII, is the history of the aftermath of the war, the involuntary population transfers, atrocities, such as murder and mass rape, committed by the allies and civilians against german nationals and volksdeutsch. see for example ‘humane and orderly’. the attempted post-war prosecutions of jewish war criminals is instructive too, with typical reflexive claims of anti-Semitism. see the cases of helena wolińska-brus and salomon morel for a couple of gruesome examples, Britain and Israel respectively ignoring polish requests for extradition. (wolińska-brus is allegedly responsible for the murder by show trial of former polish anti-fascist partisans who were insufficiently loyal to stalin, and morel the torture and murder of hundreds of volksdeutsch civilians, including, or primarily if I remember, women, the elderly and children, in the months after the war.)

  6. DICKERSON3870
    June 4, 2013, 6:20 pm

    RE: “Carl’s brother Anti was a communist and was picked up early for that reason, in 1940 or so. He escaped the labor camp they put him in and fought with the Partisans in the woods throughout the war.” ~ Michael Smith

    A RELEVANT DOCUMENTARY: Howling with the Angels, 2006, NR, 60 minutes
    Filmmaker Jean Bodon chronicles the remarkable story of his father, Jan, a Czechoslovakian Jew who fled Hitler’s Nazis and joined the Czech resistance movement while hiding his heritage. Blond and blue-eyed, Jan was able to survive the harrowing times, while thousands of Czech Jews were exterminated. Bodon’s documentary reveals his father’s hidden life story and brings to light the horrors of World War II Czechoslovakia.
    Language: Czech (with English subtitles)
    Netflix format: DVD
    Netflix listing – link to dvd.netflix.com
    Internet Movie Database – link to imdb.com

  7. Sycamores
    June 4, 2013, 6:44 pm

    i’m surprise that Rabbi Weissmandl wasn’t mention in relation to the Hungarian Jews.

  8. shachalnur
    June 4, 2013, 8:25 pm

    Yitzhak Greenbaum,Jewish Agency Chairman Rescue Commitee adressing the Zionist Executive Council in Tel aviv 1943;
    “when they asked me….couldn’t you give money out of the Jewish United Appeal funds for the rescue of Jews in Europe, I said NO!And I say again NO….one should resist this wave which pushes the Zionist activities to secondary importance”

    also Weizman had some beauties,but that would be anti-semitic ,I suppose.

    My grandparents ,religious Dutch jews ,taught me this wonderfull stuff about early Zionism.

    Without adressing the REAL history of Zionism ,that started in 1897,finding a solution for the predicament Judaism and Israel is in ,is futile.

    Moderating these kind of comments will not change a thing about this reality.

    Half a year ago ,me writing about these wonderfull Zionist heroes and their horrendous quotes ,all my comments were moderated.

    Now at least it’s being discussed,that’s an advance.

  9. yourstruly
    June 4, 2013, 8:45 pm

    Zionist Jews never miss a chance to diss those they call assimilated Jews. What bothers them is the Jew who not only doesn’t fall for the everyone else hates us myth, but easily blends in and identifies with (even marries) the non-Jew. What a coincidence, too, that the Nazis, initially at least, considered the assimilated Jew to be particularly threatening to so-called Aryan purity and culture – “How dare they break out of isolation and penetrate our ubermensch society.” Not that there isn’t an element of separatism in other religions/ethnicities (Mormons, Amish, for example), wherein traditionalists look askance, although with less vitriol (at least publicly) at members who assimilate into the society at large. The commonality here seems to be a sense of somewhere, sometime, somehow having been under siege. Paradoxically, the Nazis insisted that Germany itself was under siege, not from without but from “enemies within”, especially the Jew. How to reconcile these seemingly irreconcilables? Self-hatred, perhaps? Or is it simply one more manifestation of cognitive dissonance?

  10. Qualtrough
    June 5, 2013, 1:08 am

    Seriously, is there a flow chart for hasbara arguments out there? If not, someone (not me!) should create it. In these responses I have identified three tactics among the many. The first, by hopfmi, is that the author is a nut so what he says has no value. The second, by dimadok, is that the Ben-Gurion quote is fake. The third, from a book citation, can be summed up as, “Ok, he said it, but it was taken out of context.” Anything to avoid addressing the argument or the facts.

  11. Stogumber
    June 5, 2013, 6:29 am

    Even if I can feel empathy with “pity” (“of it all”), I’d like to caution you against idealizing and glorifying the culture of European “assimilated” Jews before nazism and WWII.

    Europe was deeply divided by a cultural war between traditionalists and modernists. Prominent Jews sided with aggressive attacks on traditional values – not so much “assimilated”, after all.

    At the same times, the gentile populaton was affected by deep economical crises, worklessness, hunger etc. Jewish “optimism, humor and reverence of all things beautiful and smart” wasn’t much of a help insofar.

    I mean, of course the Jewish-gentile relations are not necessarily a zero-sum game (Jewish happiness paid with gentile misery), but neither are they naturally a win-win-situation. They just ought to be made into a win-win-situation, but that needs a lot of conscientious work.

    • Danaa
      June 6, 2013, 1:17 am

      Stogumber, since you reference my words, I feel obliged to correct something – what I was referring to as a “milieu” (may be not such a good word choice) was not intended to be exclusive to people of Jewish extraction. Rather, it was the urban culture that was taking hold in the large European cities, no doubt enjoyed by those who had more means and leisure at their disposal, ie middle and upper middle class. I used the word ‘assimilated” and meant it. A little known fact is that a majority of the people who went to Israel from east European places like Budapest, Bucharest, Prague, and the other large European cities were inter-married, much the way American jews are nowadays. oftentimesy,these marriages involved a husband from jewish background (usually a professional and at least one or two generations out of anything shtetl-like) and a wife who was not. Children were raised almost without religion because to these couples, culture was its own religion. It is partly because of these mixed marriages that so many jewish people survived – many sheltered by their gentile close families. When these couples and their children found themselves in israel – many escaping communism which was not kind to either professional – or businessmen – the non-Jewish partner never bothered to convert. they just became “Israeli” and didn’t talk much about who came from what background. No wonder family histories were among the many secrets that children growing up in israel were shielded from. There were much worse secrets, of course, than having a gentile parent.

      You are not wrong however in mentioning the divide between traditional and progressive or the less than wonderful circumstances of the people who lived in the country-side and/or toiled for meager compensation in the cities and towns. But, it’s no different than progressives nowadays, is it? show much do the coastal elite care about those in “fly-over states? just like now, the cultured pre-WWII urbanites were generally in favor of “peasant rights”, at least theoretically. they often had little use for religion, considering it a burden, rather than an asset, making them not-so traditional. For the most part, what little I know of the educated classes back then is that for the most part, many, if not all, felt that true virtue was to be found in service to civil society, which is why you found so many people, jewish included, active in local politics. As for the religions held in contempt, those encompassed both Jewish and gentile, probably in equal measures. The jewish individuals cared little for the useless rabbis (though they did not mind and even fostered the emergence of the more progressive, urbanized “Rabbi” – kind of like the progressive rabbis we see in the US. Same for pastors and priests, for the catholic-nostalgic). Naturally, the less-well-to-do clearly had enormous resentments towards the emergent elites, and quite likely, found fault in whatever mixed ethnic make-up could be drudged up. this no doubt translated into substantial anti-semitism – nothing original there.

      Anyways, you are wrong to ascribe to me an emphasis on some jewish-gentile divide in those “lost worlds”. my intent was actually the opposite – the disappeared cultures I lament were broadly and deeply assimilated and indeed, quite cosmopolitan in outlook. You may not have much use for idle musings, but I often wonder how these city-worlds – and the European culture in general – would have evolved had WWII not come about and israel did not come to exist in its present unappealing ethnosupremacist form.

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