Columbus Day reflection

Today being the official Columbus Day holiday in the U.S., it’s a good occasion for people here to reflect on the similarities between the history of this land and what’s happening in Palestine

Modified by Engin Coban

Modified by Engin Coban

 

h/t Anna Baltzer

Posted in Israel/Palestine, US Politics

{ 17 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. broadside says:

    Since it’s pretty clear anyway the United States will soon dissolve — no one pays back 20 trillion dollars, and half of America can’t stand the other half — it’s time to do the right thing and when it comes to divvying the land allocate a fair share to the natives.

    • hophmi says:

      LOL. I don’t think you understand the concept of debt very well. I think you understand it like the Tea Party understands it.

      • Eva Smagacz says:

        Debt is interest generating product, and makes the world go round.

        Debt is never really paid off. It is rolled over and over, printing money forever for those with capital ( so that they can buy and hold more capital), and for those who administer the scheme, living off fees for arranging the debt.

        If debt was paid off, bankers would starve and fat capitalists would have to live of fat of their own land.

  2. Nevada Ned says:

    The maps illustrate a rarely discussed point: the ties between Israel and the US go far beyond the influence of the Israel Lobby. Both countries were originally colonies of Britain. In both cases, settlers led an independence movement. Both countries developed a self-image of settlers, fleeing persecution, building an idealistic new society in a previously empty land. Both cases involved ethnic cleansing of the indigenous inhabitants.

    For example, President Andrew Jackson said “The only good Indian is a dead Indian”.
    Every American knows the words to the first verse of the Star Spangled Banner. “And the rocket’s red glare, the bombs bursting in air…:” There is a second verse, which is rarely sung:

    Then conquer we must,
    when our cause it is just.
    And this be our motto,
    “In God is our trust!”

    In 1948, the UN adopted the Genocide Convention (came into effect in 1951). The US refused to ratify it for decades, until finally in 1986 the US ratified it, after making a proviso that nobody in the US could be prosecuted under the Genocide Convention without the consent of the US.

    Why the decades-long delay in ratifying the Genocide Convention? High-ranking US government administrators warned the US could face lawsuits by descendents of African slaves, and/or by Indians.

  3. K Renner says:

    Of course, doing the same sort of thing is much more reprehensible in the modern era as opposed to the early and middle Renaissance period.

    As German-Polish-Irish-Portuguese mix, I don’t feel as though I have to be accountable because I’m “white”– especially since my family first set foot in Canada (I know, but same sort of deal, more or less) in 1951/52.

    That being said, trying to excuse what happened to the indigenous population “because it was a different time” would still be pretty awful.

    • German Lefty says:

      Of course, doing the same sort of thing is much more reprehensible in the modern era as opposed to the early and middle Renaissance period.

      I agree. Crimes must be judged by the standards of the times in which they were committed. When North America was conquered, ethnic cleansing was not regarded as a crime yet.

      As German-Polish-Irish-Portuguese mix, I don’t feel as though I have to be accountable because I’m “white”– especially since my family first set foot in Canada in 1951/52.

      Um, no person can be made accountable for crimes that were committed before they were born.

  4. MHughes976 says:

    I suppose that doing something which is both objectively wrong and also generally recognised as wrong – as ethnic cleansing now is – is worse, indicative of greater moral perversity, than doing something which is objectively wrong but generally accepted in the world of the time. Not that ethnic cleansing and dispossession were as completely acceptable in early modern times as we sometimes like to think. There was quite an argument about it within the Spanish Catholic world, led by las Casas.
    It’s also relevant that Native Americans are now fully enfranchised citizens of the United States and Canada, so that the wrong of former times does not continue unabated now.
    I agree with Ned that the affinities between England, Scotland, the United States and Israel are very deep, Zionism being only one form of a colonial project with both an economic and a mystical character.

    • hophmi says:

      “It’s also relevant that Native Americans are now fully enfranchised citizens of the United States and Canada, so that the wrong of former times does not continue unabated now.”

      I wouldn’t exactly call them equal in the United States. They live in poverty. They are not equal enough to avoid being sports mascots.

      The vast majority of them were killed off. They’re less than 1% of the population of the United States.

      • Woody Tanaka says:

        “I wouldn’t exactly call them equal in the United States.”

        They are not denied any governmental benefit on account of their being Native American nor are they denied any human, political or civil right or the vote because they are Native American. Pity the israelis can’t say the same about the Palestinians in their state (either de facto or dejure)

  5. I have renamed Columbus Day “Taino and Arawak Remembrance Day”.

  6. Columbus Day? Seriously?? Whereas no Caucasians preceded native Americans, Jews have had a continuous presence in the lands of Israel since the beginning of recorded history and their sway in the region is well recorded by the bible as well as Greek and Roman history. Columbus day!! See any mention of the “Palestinians” in the bible or in Greek or Roman history?

    • MHughes976 says:

      Lots and lots of mentions in both sources.

    • RoHa says:

      “Jews have had a continuous presence in the lands of Israel since the beginning of recorded history ”

      But not European Jews.

    • eljay says:

      >> Jews have had a continuous presence in the lands of Israel since the beginning of recorded history …

      Jews living in geographic Palestine, descended from Jews who have lived in geographic Palestine since the beginning of recorded history, have had a continuous presence in geographic Palestine.

      Jews living elsewhere in the world, descended from Jews who may or may not have come from or ever lived in geographic Palestine, have not had a continuous presence in geographic Palestine.

    • Woody Tanaka says:

      “Columbus Day? Seriously?? ”

      Yes, noob, seriously. It provides important lessons concerning the present situation with the Jewish Apartheid state and it’s serial rape of Palestine.

      “Jews have had a continuous presence in the lands of Israel since the beginning of recorded history”

      BFD. About 2000 years ago, they stopped being anything but a footnote in the region.

    • talknic says:

      Jeffrey J. Melnick ” Whereas no Caucasians preceded native Americans, Jews have had a continuous presence in the lands of Israel since the beginning of recorded history and their sway in the region is well recorded by the bible as well as Greek and Roman history. Columbus day!! See any mention of the “Palestinians” in the bible or in Greek or Roman history?”

      Completely irrelevant to the Internationally recognized State of Israel as it asked to be and was recognized “as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947″ link to avalon.law.yale.edu and it’s illegal activities in territories “outside the state of Israel ” … “in Palestine” link to pages.citebite.com since being declared and recognized.