Israel refuses to recognize its own nationality: Israeli Supreme Court says ‘Israeli’ nationality could endanger idea of Jewish state

Israel/Palestine
on 107 Comments

Israeli apartheid enabled by the Israeli “justice” system….

From the October 4 Associated Press article, “Israeli court rejects Israeli nationality, saying it could undermine Jewish character“:

Israel’s population registry lists a slew of “nationalities” and ethnicities, among them Jew, Arab, Druse and more. But one word is conspicuously absent from the list: Israeli.

Residents cannot identify themselves as Israelis in the national registry because the move could have far-reaching consequences for the country’s Jewish character, the Israeli Supreme Court wrote in documents obtained Thursday.

The ruling was a response to a demand by 21 Israelis, most of whom are officially registered as Jews, that the court decide whether they can be listed as Israeli in the registry. The group had argued that without a secular Israeli identity, Israeli policies will favor Jews and discriminate against minorities.

In its 26-page ruling, the court explained that doing so would have “weighty implications” on the state of Israel and could pose a danger to Israel’s founding principle: to be a Jewish state for the Jewish people.

The decision touches on a central debate in Israel, which considers itself both Jewish and democratic yet has struggled to balance both. The country has not officially recognized an Israeli nationality. . .

The national population registry lists a person’s religion and nationality or ethnicity, among other details. Any Jew, no matter what his country of origin, is listed as a Jew. Arabs are marked as such and other minorities, such as Druse, are listed by their ethnicity. . .

In the Supreme Court case, the 21 petitioners argued that Israel is not democratic because it is Jewish. They say that the country’s Arab minority faces discrimination because certain policies favor Jews and that a shared Israeli nationality could bring an end to such prejudice and unite all of Israel’s citizens.

“The Jewish identity is anti-democratic,” said Uzzi Ornan, the main petitioner who runs “I am Israeli,” a small organization devoted to having the Israeli nationality officially recognized.

“With an Israeli identity, we can be secure in our democracy, secure in equality between all citizens,” said Ornan, a 90-year-old professor of computational linguistics at the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa.

Israeli Arabs have long contended that, despite their citizenship, they are victims of official discrimination, with their communities receiving fewer resources than Jewish towns. While some Arabs have made strides in recent years in entering the Israeli mainstream, they are on average poorer and less educated than their Jewish counterparts.

The court’s deliberation focused mainly on how an officially recognized Israeli identity could pose a threat to Israel’s founding ideals and cause disunity. The court said it was not casting doubt on the existence of an Israeli nation.

Israel remains the only country on earth, as far as I am aware, that does not recognize its own nationality, does not recognize a major part of its citizenry, the indigenous Palestinian citizens of the state, as nationals of the state, but recognizes foreigners who share the majority’s religion as nationals!

Only decades of Israeli propaganda, mainly manufactured by complicit academia and propagated by pliant journalism serving Zionism, could have covered up this profound and blatant pillar of Israeli apartheid from world public opinion.

Imagine if France, say, would not recognize its non-Catholic citizens as French nationals and would extend French nationality to all Catholics around the world, privileging them over its own citizens who are not Catholic. And of course French Catholics are not colonial settlers who gained hegemony and demographic majority through the systematic ethnic cleansing of the non-Catholic indigenous population of the land!

 

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107 Responses

  1. Mike_Konrad
    October 8, 2013, 1:51 pm

    Saudi Arabia only allows Muslims.

    • edwin
      October 8, 2013, 2:25 pm

      Mike K. You need to provide a link. A quick search seems to indicate that this is not true.

      It does look like Saudi Arabia does discriminate against non-Muslims in citizenship, but it is not forbidden. Similarly I haven’t seen anything on striping one’s citizenship when one ceases to be Muslim.

      Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, and as such the Monarch has the power to, for example, grant citizenship.

      In any case, we’ve come a long way since the time that supporters of Israel were declaring that Israel is a democracy like any other. Now it is a racist state just like any other racist state.

    • eljay
      October 8, 2013, 2:32 pm

      >> Israel remains the only country on earth, as far as I am aware, that does not recognize its own nationality …

      Welcome to supremacist “Jewish State”!

      >> Saudi Arabia only allows Muslims.

      What is it with Zio-supremacists and their pride in being little better than the worst? It’s like the serial rapist being proud that he’s not a serial killer. Weird.

      • seafoid
        October 8, 2013, 5:42 pm

        They never compare Israel to a developed country. It is always Saudi or Congo. Way to go, bots.

    • James Canning
      October 8, 2013, 2:37 pm

      Christian Saudis are not Saudis?

      • seafoid
        October 8, 2013, 5:59 pm

        Well Shia Saudis are not Muslims!
        Infidels!

    • Kathleen
      October 8, 2013, 3:00 pm

      Last I checked Saudi Arabia does not try to call itself a democracy.

    • Eva Smagacz
      October 8, 2013, 3:12 pm

      “Saudi Arabia only allows Muslims”. What a worthy fellowship for Israel to belong to! ( I wouldn’t consider this to be an argument that raises Israel’s stock in the eyes of a western reader)

      • Walid
        October 8, 2013, 4:41 pm

        Fellowship is more than in one area. From al-Akhbar yesterday:

        This year, the mandatory Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca, or hajj, will compound the Palestinians’ woes. Palestinian pilgrims will be greeted by a company that assists in their repression – and even torture – under the Israeli occupation regime. Indeed, hajj this year will be brought to you by none other than G4S.

        … The parent company has not disclosed the nature of the contracts it has signed with the Saudi authorities. In its periodic reports, G4S makes limited references to its Saudi operations, such as winning a contract with Jeddah Metro to assist with security during the hajj, or stating that the company assists in the transport of more than 3 million pilgrims who visit Mecca each year. In 2011, the website Asrar Ararabiya – Arab Secrets – published an ad by the company asking people to apply to work in Mecca for seven days only, during hajj.

        The Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) campaign has not been sitting idly by. In a press conference on Wednesday, October 2, the campaign sent a clear message to the Saudi government, urging it to terminate the contract with the company that happens to provide equipment and security services to protect Israeli settlements, occupation checkpoints, and police facilities. The private security contractor has also been implicated in enabling the torture of administrative detainees in Palestine, including children, according to BDS activist Zaid Shuaibi.

        … G4S’ subsidiary in Israel (Hashmira) was awarded a contract with the Israeli Prison Service in July 2007 to supply equipment and security services that enable violations of Articles 49 and 76 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The company provides security systems and centralized control systems to the Hasharon-Ramonim prison, which contains a section for Palestinian political prisoners.

        G4S has installed a central command room in Megiddo Prison, in addition to supplying a wide array of security services to the Damon and Ketziot prisons. In Ofer, the prison where more than 1,500 Palestinians are detained – mostly administrative prisoners – G4S has also installed a central command room and provided protection through peripheral defense systems on the walls surrounding the prison. The company routinely supplies systems for command and control, IT, CCTV, and communications to Israeli prisons.

        http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/saudi-hires-occupation-friendly-company-hajj-security

    • tree
      October 8, 2013, 6:13 pm

      If Saudi Arabia was like Israel then it would give immediate citizenship to all Muslims, no matter what country they originated from. It doesn’t, so Israel does stand alone in that regard. Its very hard to get Saudi citizenship if you are not born there to Saudi parents, regardless of your religion. You essentially have to live there for 10 years, be engaged in a highly professional job such as medical doctor or scientist, and/or have a close blood relationship to a Saudi national.

    • Bandolero
      October 8, 2013, 6:52 pm

      @Mike Konrad

      You may not only compare it to Saudi Arabia, but you may even compare it to Germany.

      For example, in the famous “Reichsbürgergesetz” of Germany there exists a distinction between “Staatsangehörige” und “Reichsbürger.” Full rights are in that law only for “Reichsbürger.” “Reichsbürger” are specified in that law specified as “Staatsangehörige” of “German or related blood” others, like jews and gypsys, “simple Staatsangehörige” or people of an “ethnicity alien to the race.” And of course, there are also the “Verordnungen” to the “Reichsbürgergesetz” which define, for example, who is a “Jew” or a “jewish crossbreed” and what rights such people have or not have.

      You can read all that in Wikipedia under the term “Nuremberg Laws” and much more in the German version of Wikipedia on the Nuremberg laws. See, Israel is not alone with it’s ethnic definition of “nationality,” Saudi Arabia is with Israel and Germany, too. Of course, the “Reichsbürgergesetz” was a bit criticised, so Germany abolished it in the year 1945, but Israel is really not alone in making ethnic differences of it’s definition of it’s “Volk.”

      The German press reports, that Uzzi Ornan criticies the Israeli practice of defining it’s people saying that how Israel defines who is a jew is the way the Nazis defined who is a jew. See, Israel is not alone in the world.

    • Shingo
      October 8, 2013, 10:15 pm

      Saudi Arabia only allows Muslims.

      Even if that were true, it goes to show what a vile little state Israel is if the best you can do is compare it to a vile regime like Saudi Arabia.

    • kayq
      October 8, 2013, 10:27 pm

      Saudi is an ally to Israel…

      Nice try.

    • Walid
      October 9, 2013, 4:54 am

      “Saudi Arabia only allows Muslims.”

      Wrong, there are hundreds of thousands Christian foreigners working in Saudi Arabia and the same for southeast Asian Buddhists. Non-Muslims cannot enter the holy city of Mecca but they are free to go anywhere else in SA; in fact there’s traffic ring (aptly named Sinners’ Road) that circles the city of Mecca that non-Muslims must use to bypass the city to maintain its purity. It’s the one road where women can drive without fear of being caught because even the moralities police wouldn’t be caught dead on it. Airliners with foreigners aboard are not allowed to fly over the city. So as you can see, there are Christians all over SA except for that one place; the only hangup is that none of the 2 million or so unbelievers are allowed to have a common place of worhip such as a church or a temple. Churches and temples are allowed in other Gulf countries but without any highly visible exterior signage such as crosses on the buildings. I attended a very interesting Catholic mass in Hindi in Doha this spring in a large multi-faith church where a dozen or so different denominations take turns at using the hall using native languages. The same complex also had a Buddhist temple.

  2. Mike_Konrad
    October 8, 2013, 1:57 pm

    One member of the Israeli Supreme Court is an Israeli-Christian-Arab, Salim Joubran

    Do they publish his opinions like they publish minority opinions in the USA?

    I bet they would be great reading!

    He is Half-Maronite, who usually are friendly to Zionism, so he may not deviate too much from standard Israeli lines.

    • Eva Smagacz
      October 8, 2013, 2:56 pm

      One Arab Supreme Court Judge (out of thirteen). In the last 65 years. Wow that’s equality of opportunity in Israel right here in full view.

      • OlegR
        October 9, 2013, 8:52 am

        Remind me how many blacks are there in US supreme court?
        How many were presidents over the past 200 years ?

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 9, 2013, 11:45 am

        What is your point? The US is a profoundly racist country and has been for most of its existence. So is israel. That’s all everyone is saying.

      • Shingo
        October 9, 2013, 4:56 pm

        Remind us how many Palestinians have bee elected prime minister Oleg.

    • Walid
      October 8, 2013, 4:47 pm

      “He is Half-Maronite, who usually are friendly to Zionism, so he may not deviate too much from standard Israeli lines.”

      Not only some half- Maronites and full-Maronites are friendly to Zionists, you also have some Sunni and Shia Muslims that are also friendly. There’s a new term going around for such people, it’s “Arab-Zionists”. It’s a polite way of designating collaborators or those not averse to normalizing relations with Israel.

    • seafoid
      October 8, 2013, 5:45 pm

      How many members of the israeli academy of science are Palestinian? Clue : The answer is less than 1.

      • RoHa
        October 8, 2013, 8:20 pm

        ?

      • RoHa
        October 8, 2013, 10:32 pm

        Bugger! I used the “more than” and “less than” signs, and they were interpreted as HTML tags.

        I meant “less than 1 but more than ?”

    • tree
      October 8, 2013, 6:00 pm

      Do they publish his opinions like they publish minority opinions in the USA?

      You do realize, I hope, that a legal “minority opinion” in the US does not refer to the ethnicity of the judge, but to the fact that it is the opinion that disagrees with the ruling of the majority of judges on the court panel?

  3. NormanF
    October 8, 2013, 2:00 pm

    This practice long predated Zionism and modern Israel. In the Bible, “Israel” is always a name for the Jewish nation. In antiquity, the term “Israelite” had as much honorific significance as “Israeli” does in our own day. After the disappearance of the Northern Kingdom, the term “Israel” was taken over by the Jewish nation. Israelis are citizens but there will be never be an Israeli nationality. Only Jews are nationals of the world’s only Jewish State.

    • eljay
      October 8, 2013, 3:14 pm

      >> … there will be never be an Israeli nationality. Only Jews are nationals of the world’s only Jewish State.

      Thoughts of a pure, religion-supremacist “Jewish State” make Zio-supremacists giddy…

    • Mike_Konrad
      October 8, 2013, 4:00 pm

      That is a pretty good analysis.

      Though Israel does come from the new name of Jacob after he wrested with God.

      • amigo
        October 9, 2013, 7:17 am

        “Though Israel does come from the new name of Jacob after he wrested with God.”MK

        Was it a weekend bout.

        Marquis of Queensbury rules.

        Attendance

        Cost to enter.

        Who was the ref.

        Was it super heavy weight.

        Was it a knock out.

        Where do you come up with these fairy stories.

        Enid Blyton.

      • ziusudra
        October 10, 2013, 6:09 am

        Greetings Mike K.,
        Israel (he fight (with) God)
        Jacob ( He deceives) Who?
        He grabs the heel of Isau( his brother) at birth.
        ziusudra
        PS Quite a sly dude!

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 8, 2013, 4:44 pm

      LMAO. So longstanding discrimination is okay?? Sounds like another BS misuse of history to excuse zionist racism, to me.

    • seafoid
      October 8, 2013, 5:51 pm

      World’s only jewish state, offer for a limited time only. If a jewish state is not available customers may be offered an alternative of equal value such as a democratic state. Please do not ask for Holocaust credit as a refusal often offends.

    • talknic
      October 8, 2013, 6:48 pm

      NormanF “Israelis are citizens but there will be never be an Israeli nationality. Only Jews are nationals of the world’s only Jewish State”

      Uh huh…… Say…. What do they mean by Nationality: Israeli ….. on an Israeli passport?

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Isr_pass_biom_2013_inside.JPG

      • James Canning
        October 8, 2013, 6:55 pm

        Great post, talknic!

      • RoHa
        October 8, 2013, 8:26 pm

        “the Jewish nation”

        If that does not mean “the Jewish State”, what does it mean? In what sense of the term are Jews in general a nation? Please list the defining characteristics.

        “Israelis are citizens but there will be never be an Israeli nationality. ”

        What is the difference between citizenship and nationality?

      • NormanF
        October 9, 2013, 4:19 am

        The Jews have an origin, a specific identity, a set of belief and a national territory. Just like every other people on earth.

        Citizenship is being part of the Israeli state. Nationality is being part of the Jewish nation.

        Legally, the latter is supreme over the former. That’s why Israel is called the Jewish State.

      • Shingo
        October 10, 2013, 2:15 am

        The Jews have an origin, a specific identity, a set of belief and a national territory.

        No they do not. They have manuy origins, many identities and a range of beliefs.

        Nationality is being part of the Jewish nation.

        There’s o such thing as the Jewish nation.

        That’s why Israel is called the Jewish State.

        No, Israel is called Israel .

      • RoHa
        October 10, 2013, 7:50 pm

        “The Jews have an origin, a specific identity, a set of belief and a national territory. ”

        What do you mean by “origin”, “identity”, and “national territory”?

        “Just like every other people on earth.”

        What do you mean by “people”?

        “Citizenship is being part of the Israeli state. Nationality is being part of the Jewish nation.”

        Jews are not a nation in any normal sense of the word. Citizenship and nationality are the same thing in normal senses of the word. If you are using the words in abnormal senses, you should tell us what those senses are, otherwise nothing but confusion can result.

      • NormanF
        October 9, 2013, 4:15 am

        Israeli nationality refers to citizenship not to nationality. They’re distinct categories. Every one can have an Israeli passport but only a Jewish person belongs to the Jewish nation.

      • Shingo
        October 10, 2013, 2:16 am

        Israeli nationality refers to citizenship not to nationality.

        Therefore you are saying that there is no Israeli nation.

        Every one can have an Israeli passport but only a Jewish person belongs to the Jewish nation.

        There is no such thing as the ewish nation.

  4. NormanF
    October 8, 2013, 2:09 pm

    The Jews are not outsiders! The majority of Israel’s Jews have always been home. Jews are indigenous to the country and have lived there since ancient times and the Land Of Israel is the only place that has all of the sites described in the Hebrew Bible. History knows of no parallel to a once extinct nation being restored to life in its ancient land.

    • eljay
      October 8, 2013, 3:22 pm

      >> Jews are indigenous to the country …

      Jews born in the geographic region of Palestine were / are indigenous to Palestine. Jews not born in the geographic region of Palestine were not / are not indigenous to Palestine.

      >> … and have lived there since ancient times …

      Only the ones who have lived there since ancient times have lived there since ancient times. The rest have lived elsewhere.

      • NormanF
        October 9, 2013, 4:20 am

        They were exiled from their country. But in several generations, every Jew will be Israeli-born. Most of them already are.

      • Shingo
        October 10, 2013, 2:14 am

        They were exiled from their country.

        That myth has been debunked.

        But in several generations, every Jew will be Israeli-born.

        False. With Jews abandoning Israel, only uneducated medieval religious extremists will be Israeli-born.

      • eljay
        October 10, 2013, 7:40 am

        >> They were exiled from their country.

        If a Jewish preson was exiled from the country of his birth, he’s an exile. If he wasn’t exiled from the country of his birth, he’s not an exile.

        >> But in several generations, every Jew will be Israeli-born.

        Every Jew will be Israeli-born…except for the ones who are born elsewhere.

      • talknic
        October 10, 2013, 7:43 am

        @ NormanF “in several generations, every Jew will be Israeli-born”

        Do you have any statistical indicators that lead you to this speculative conclusion?

        “Most of them already are

        Nonsense. Although Israel has the highest Jewish birthrate of any country, statistics tell us most Jews are not born in Israel http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm#_Toc26172079 The combined total of Europe & the US alone outstrip Israel.

        ” About 73% of the population is native born ”
        http://www.jewishpress.com/news/jewish-news/jews-less-than-0-2-of-world-population/2012/09/20/

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 8, 2013, 4:52 pm

      Normie you are out of your mind. First, most Jews in occupied Palestine (both parts) are first, second or third generation in the region. Second, the fact that it has all the sites in the Old Testament is irrelevant. It also has most of the sites of the New Testament. Should then the Christians kick you out? Third, the Jewish “nation” such as is it, was never extinct, it was dispersed. And even today, most live outside of occupied Palestine.

      • NormanF
        October 9, 2013, 4:23 am

        The Jewish nation disappeared from its land and the Hebrew language died out, too.

        It was a national revival against the greatest of odds and happened without the assistance of the colonial power of the day.

      • Shingo
        October 10, 2013, 2:12 am

        It was a national revival against the greatest of odds and happened without the assistance of the colonial power of the day.

        No, it is an artificial construct based on mythological beliefs in false history and it was done with the assistance of the most powerful nations on earth, especially the colonial power of the day.

      • talknic
        October 10, 2013, 7:50 am

        @ NormanF October 9, 2013 at 4:23 am

        Uh huh. Interesting but irrelevant to the Internationally recognized status of Israel’s sovereign extent and Israel’s illegal activities in occupied territories outside the State of Israel.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 10, 2013, 4:01 pm

        “The Jewish nation disappeared from its land”

        No, through the generation they merely converted to Christianity and Islam. Lived their lives as they always did, interacted and intermingled with the various people who washed in and out of the land like the tides.

        You may have heard of them. They’re now known as Palestinians.

        “and the Hebrew language died out, too.”

        No, it didn’t. It continued as a written and spoken liturgical language. The fact that it was revived as an everyday language is wholly unremarkable, given the sentimental and practical considerations involved. Had they chosen to make everyone learn Esperanto, now that would have been noteworthy.

        “It was a national revival against the greatest of odds and happened without the assistance of the colonial power of the day.”

        Nonsense. It was a colonial project make possible only through the passive acquiesence and active support of the imperial powers of the day — most notably the Ottoman Empire and the British Empire — against the wishes of the natives and rightful inhabitants of the land. Further, given the facts of its creation, it was not against “the greatest of odds” but was more likely than not, given the access that the yishuv had to resources in what later became known as the First World, in comparison to the Third World resources of their opponents/victims.

      • RoHa
        October 10, 2013, 7:52 pm

        “happened without the assistance of the colonial power of the day.”

        Except, of course, for the support of Britain, which was the greatest colonial power of the day.

    • Walid
      October 8, 2013, 5:05 pm

      “The Jews are not outsiders! ”

      Of course, some aren’t. Before the anomaly of 1948, there had been Jews on the land even before Arabs. But during this same long-ago period, there were also Canaanites living there even before the Jews. Some of those Canaanites became the Palestinians of today. As to the outsiders, those aliens are mostly the European and American Jews unless they were of oriental Jewish stock.

    • Abdul-Rahman
      October 8, 2013, 5:17 pm

      I see your “response” to reality is to spew debunking Zionist mythology. Mythology revolving around a book with a talking snake, that says the Canaanites where there “first” anyway.

      Try reality on for size:

      http://khazardnaproject.wordpress.com/2013/10/08/the-origin-of-european-jewish-women/ The origin of European Jewish women is from…. Europe! (October 8, 2013)

      From today itself! http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/science/ashkenazi-origins-may-be-with-european-women-study-finds.html?_r=1& Genes Suggest European Women at Root of Ashkenazi Family Tree (October 8, 2013)

      http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/full/ncomms3543.html A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages (October 8, 2013)

      Johns Hopkins University geneticist Dr. Eran Elhaik (http://eelhaik.aravindachakravartilab.org/)

      http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/1/61 The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses

      http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iJN90t2gN6hxGiFQuBv-gYQE060w?docId=CNG.52483183e4e0f60d963361c17572c848.81 Gene study settles debate over origin of European Jews

      (AFP) – Jan 16, 2013

      Also to conclude, the Palestinians have justice, morality, and international law on their side http://www.al-awda.org/facts.html (which is all that truly matters), but if you want to go from the “angle” you were pathetically trying to spew from; more reality for you:

      http://books.google.com/books?id=BLLmbgt8wNgC&pg=PA700&lpg=PA700&dq=Palestinians+are+an+indigenous+people+who+either+live+in,+or+originate+from,+historical+Palestine+Genomics+and+Health+Kuma&source=bl&ots=u0Q0Wz7KBU&sig=h2Khtm0vmbZsp6pQPKOmr7cMY7o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=iRRBUeGPAZOo4AOvvYEY&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Palestinians%20are%20an%20indigenous%20people%20who%20either%20live%20in%2C%20or%20originate%20from%2C%20historical%20Palestine%20Genomics%20and%20Health%20Kuma&f=false

      ‘Palestinians are an indigenous people who either live in, or originate from, historical Palestine. .Although the Muslims guaranteed security and allowed religious freedom to all inhabitants of the region, the majority converted to Islam and adopted Arab culture.’ Bassam Abu-Libdeh, Peter D. Turnpenny, and Ahmed Teebi, ‘Genetic Disease in Palestine and Palestinians,’ in Dhavendra Kumar (ed.) Genomics and Health in the Developing World, OUP 2012 pp.700-711, p.700.

    • seafoid
      October 8, 2013, 5:48 pm

      It will be interesting when the second diaspora starts to happen. Unprecedented in human history. They go back after so long and they make a horse’s arse of it and gd is forced to smite them AGAIN.

    • talknic
      October 8, 2013, 6:59 pm

      @NormanF “the Land Of Israel”

      The only land of Israel since 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) is defined by Israel’s borders as the Israeli Government asked to be and was recognized “MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.”

      Israel has not since legally acquired any territory. It has been inadmissible to acquire territory by force since at least 1933 http://pages.citebite.com/y1f0t4q1v4son and Israel has never legally annexed any territory

      ” is the only place that has all of the sites described in the Hebrew Bible”

      That would be the ‘historic’ Land of Israel, not the modern rogue State of Israel

      “History knows of no parallel to a once extinct nation being restored to life in its ancient land”

      Correction: The modern State of Israel was restored to life in a part of its ancient land.

    • Shingo
      October 8, 2013, 7:12 pm

      Jews are indigenous to the country and have lived there since ancient times and the Land Of Israel is the only place that has all of the sites described in the Hebrew Bible.

      Some were, but most were recent converts to the faith with no connection to Palestine.

      History knows of no parallel to a once extinct nation being restored to life in its ancient land.

      Israel doesn’t fit that description either. It was created 65 years ago.

    • Light
      October 8, 2013, 8:47 pm

      NormanF,
      European Jews are as indigenous to Palestine as European Christians are. There is no doubt that Israel today exists and many Jewish Israelis call Israel their home. But it is their home because they were born there not because they are related to ancient mythological people. Finally, even if your claim were true, it would not justify the past and ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

  5. James Canning
    October 8, 2013, 2:35 pm

    Remarkable story, and situation. Astonishing, in some ways.

    Obviously, Israelis are Israelis, even if this is frowned on by Israel’s Supreme Court.

  6. Kathleen
    October 8, 2013, 2:59 pm

    “The Jewish identity is anti-democratic”

    • Mike_Konrad
      October 8, 2013, 4:13 pm

      A lot of states have an ethnic basis. Just try and get a Japanese passport without a Japanese ancestor.

      Non-ethnicity was, until recently, a phenomenom exclusive to the immigrant Western Hemisphere.

      Even Australia and New Zealand were almost exclusively British or Irish.

      The issue muddying up the matter is that Judaism, as well as being an ethnic affiliation, is also strongly connected to an exclusive religion which does not seek converts.

      Were Israel to de-establish the Orthodox Jewish religious establishment, and confine its definition of Jewish to Jewish ethnicity OR allow Reformed and Conservative Judaism as equally valid, it could remain quite Jewish and the problem would disappear. Israel would be seen as a typical ethnic polity.

      French history books used to begin with: “Our ancestors the Gauls …” Was that supremacist?! It was not even totally true. France has a Latin, Occitan, Frankish, Germanic, Breton, and Basque component. But there was a central definition which stuck as “Gaul.”

      A lot of which drives this is security. If Israel were not threatened, a lot of this would be removed.

      • Shingo
        October 9, 2013, 2:03 am

        A lot of states have an ethnic basis.

        Except that the identity is based on nationality, not religion.

        Even Australia and New Zealand were almost exclusively British or Irish.

        50 years ago, and only because they happened to be the nationality of the immigrants. Neither made being British or Irish a condition of entry.

        The issue muddying up the matter is that Judaism, as well as being an ethnic affiliation, is also strongly connected to an exclusive religion which does not seek converts.

        The issue muddying up the matter is that you keep conflating religion with ethnicity. While one can convert to Judaism, one cannot convert to another ethnicity.

        A lot of which drives this is security

        What drives the need security is the acquisition of stolen territory. If Israel were not stealing land, it would not be threatened.

      • NormanF
        October 9, 2013, 4:34 am

        Any one can convert to Judaism – and since that is possible, there is no racist objection per se to Jewish peoplehood.

        And it should be added Pakistan and the Vatican are states explicitly founded on a religious nationality. The only difference is no one objects to their existence.

        Its only Jewish nationalism that is controversial.

      • Shingo
        October 10, 2013, 2:11 am

        And it should be added Pakistan and the Vatican are states explicitly founded on a religious nationality.

        At the will of the majority of the existing population.

        Its only Jewish nationalism that is controversial.

        Colonialism. ethnic cleansing and apartheid always is.

      • Ecru
        October 9, 2013, 2:57 am

        A lot of states have an ethnic basis

        No. A lot of states have an INDIGENOUS bias. This happens to coincide with ethnicity in most cases simply because of the accidents of history, not through large scale ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population as in the case of Israel.

        Even Australia and New Zealand were almost exclusively British or Irish

        Yes it’s called colonialism and is considered wrong these days. Further Australian Aboriginals and New Zealand Maoris are just plain citizens of Australia and New Zealand respectively, no bits of paper to remind the world of their ethnic affiliation.

        ..an exclusive religion which does not seek converts

        OK I’m not going to go on about Khazars, I’ll be nice. BUT you’re obviously ignorant of, or deliberately ignoring Jewish history that clearly shows not only periods of welcoming converts but also invented forced conversion.

        Israel would be seen as a typical ethnic polity.

        Only if it also gets rid of all the bigoted laws on its books and actually enforces the few laws that punish discrimination. Otherwise it’ll be seen, like South Africa, as an Apartheid ethnic polity.

        French history books used to begin with: “Our ancestors the Gauls …”

        The ancestors of the majority French INDIGENOUS population were Gauls. Do you think there was no interbreeding between Franks, Romans, Basques, etc. and Gauls? BTW the Franks were Germanic so you’re indulging in a redundancy there.

        Now imagine if the UK for example decided that every British passport and official paper had to record ethnic group as well, that “UK Citizen” wasn’t valid any more, only your ethnicity counted. That the UK openly and violently demanded it be recognised as the Isle of the Mighty, a British State formed by and for Britons. That there were dozens of laws on the books penalising people for not being British (Anglo-Saxon, Manx, Scott or Cymry) up to and including planning law, that your ethnic identifier on your papers and records defined how you were treated by the state and by agents of the state in every interaction. Now imagine you’re a Jew living there. You’d be screaming about “yellow stars” so fast and loud they’d be able to hear you in Kazakhstan. And what’s more – you know it.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 9, 2013, 8:33 am

        “A lot of states have an ethnic basis. Just try and get a Japanese passport without a Japanese ancestor.”

        LMAO. Yes, because the Japanese have a profoundly racist society. But even it does not go so far as to say that anyone who is Japanese around the world is entitled to come live in Japan.

        “it could remain quite Jewish and the problem would disappear.”

        No, it would still be a profoundly racist society.

  7. Nevada Ned
    October 8, 2013, 5:15 pm

    Somewhere Uri Avnery says, “There are no Israeli babies born in Israel!”
    Newborn babies are listed as “Jewish” or “Arab” but not Israeli.
    Because race really determines whether you are a first class citizen (Jews) or second-class citizen (non-Jews).

  8. lysias
    October 8, 2013, 5:21 pm

    Nazi Germany demoted non-Aryan Germans from the status of citizens (Staatsbürger) to that of persons affiliated with the state (Staatsangehörige).

    Germans living outside Germany may then have lacked the legal status of German citizens, but the Nazi aspiration was to incorporate them in the new Germany. In Triumph of the Will, Rudolf Hess, addressing Hitler, says: “Dank Ihrer Führung wird Deutschland sein Ziel erreichen, Heimat zu sein für alle Deutschen der Welt [Thanks to your leadership, Germany will achieve its goal of being the homeland of all Germans all over the world].”

  9. fnlevit
    October 8, 2013, 5:30 pm

    What’s your point Bargouti? Or rather what is the goal? Israel has never been a “regular” country. Israel has never been an ordinary nation. Nation which gave birth to three major world religions and survived 2000 years without the shield of the state can not be ordinary. Look how we revived our state, our language. Look at the number of Nobel Prizes won by us (today was another one) , look at how we fight for our survival against all odds for 65 years with zero experience in modern warfare. And against incredible odds. Started with 650.000 in 1948. Now we are 8 mln. Like Austria.

    Just look at what we became. We are now the 3rd country on the Nasdaq (after US and China), people call us Start up Nation not for nothing, countries wait in line to get our innovations, Microsoft and Intel consider their braches here vital for them
    http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000795641&fid=1725
    look at what we invented, how we absorbed millions of refugees from different cultures and did not fall apart.
    And you want to impose your solution on such a nation. I listened to your recent presentation

    You want to impose on us a one state solution. With what? With BDS? Nu, really. All the Arab armies couldn’t with all their Russian supplied tanks and missiles and advisors.

    You know what – look at Warren Buffet. He is professional in what he is doing. He calls us “Most Promising Investment Hub” Outside of U.S.” And just bought a 3rd company in Israel investing so far close to $7 bln ($7.000.000.000) in Israel.
    http://www.haaretz.com/business/.premium-1.550825
    Do you think he would have done this if he had any inkling that what you want to impose on us will materialize?

    Do you know that Chinese are now coming in droves to invest in us? Technion just got an investment of $130 mln from a Chinese billionaire – the largest our academia ever got.
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.550634
    Do you think Chinese would do this had they believed in your solution of our conflict? Nu, really.

    I understand – this occupation with BDS and likes is kind of a carrier, somebody pays your travel, you are invited to various conferences populated with people like you who live of this BDS activity. But that will not help Palestinians or the resolution of the I/P conflict.

    Do you really worry about Palestinians? May be you are not – you grew up in Egypt, studied in Tel Aviv University (why, by the way? In such a hated place?).

    But if you really worry about Palestinians – help them to agree to what was offered by Baraq or Olmert, essentially 100% with land swaps. Let us finish this non sense, make peace and then convince and help the Palestinians to get into some sort of union with Jordan. This is a real deal for the Palestinians. Our area is what, some 27.000 sq. km? Jordan is 90.000 with some 6 mln people and more than 50% Palestinians.

    Can you imagine how much the peace with such a non ordinary nation like Israel can benefit this Palestine/Jordan state? Agriculture, start ups, tourism, sending their students to our first rate universities (you know, you studied in TAU), fantastic collaboration and economic prosperity.

    Why not? What is the alternative which you offer – getting Palestinians returning in millions creating a mixed Palestinian Jewish state. With so much hostility what do you expect will happen? A repeat of Indians/Muslim story? Or former Yugoslavia? That is what the recent history teaches us. And you are saying that you wish well for Palestinians. Nu, really…

    In Hebrew we say – al tihie tzodek – tihie haham (don’t be right, be wise)… Let’s be wise, ah?

    • Shingo
      October 8, 2013, 9:33 pm

      Israel has never been a “regular” country. Israel has never been an ordinary nation.

      You’re right. It has always been a racist, apartheid state that erroneously calls itself a democracy.

      Nation which gave birth to three major world religions and survived 2000 years without the shield of the state can not be ordinary.

      Wrong. The 3 religions you refer to already existed when Israel was created in 1948. There was no Israel when any religion was created.

      Look at the number of Nobel Prizes won by us

      You mean won by Jews, most of whom were not Israeli or living in Israel.

      Just look at what we became.

      Yes, a reviled pariah state that relied entirely on the largess of the United States to remain viable and sustainable.

      countries wait in line to get our innovations, Microsoft and Intel consider their braches here vital for them

      No the’re not. If Israel were to dissapear tomorrow, Microsoft and Intel would be fine.

      look at what we invented, how we absorbed millions of refugees from different cultures and did not fall apart.

      Of course you didn’t. You needed those immigrants to create a state. Were it not for those immigrants and refugees, Israel would never have been viable. You needed the cheap labor.

      All the Arab armies couldn’t with all their Russian supplied tanks and missiles and advisors.

      Hezollah kicked our asses twice with very modest weaponry. You had to threaten the US with going nuclear for the US to save your asses in 1973.

      Do you know that Chinese are now coming in droves to invest in us?

      No, because they are not. $130 million is loose change for China and a donation is not an investment.

      But if you really worry about Palestinians – help them to agree to what was offered by Baraq or Olmert, essentially 100% with land swaps.

      But why should they agree to those miserable offers when they are legally entitled to so much more? Why don’t you give all the land back you stole and be done with it?

      Let us finish this non sense, make peace and then convince and help the Palestinians to get into some sort of union with Jordan.

      Better still, why don;t you recent arrivals all go back to Brooklyn? After all, Russian Jews are leaving in droves as are all the educated and intelligent people in your country.
      http://www.haaretz.com/business/.premium-1.551116

      The best and smartest people are the very ones who want out: seculars, the highly educated, normal folks. And the ones who are arriving: religious fundamentalists and those who can’t make it in their own countries. Israel is set to become a ghetto for the dumb, religious nut jobs who can’t get a job.

      Shouldn’t you be trying to get out fnlevit, or are you one of them?

      Can you imagine how much the peace with such a non ordinary nation like Israel can benefit this Palestine/Jordan state?

      I agree, but peace is meaningless without justice. If you thieves simply gave back what you stole, the Palestinians could at least get back to work and tend to the farms and orchards you stole and destroyed, not to mention their water and real estate.

    • talknic
      October 8, 2013, 10:52 pm

      @ fnlevit “Israel has never been an ordinary nation. Nation which gave birth to three major world religions and survived 2000 years without the shield of the state can not be ordinary”

      Newby. The Australian Aboriginals survived over 45,000 years without need of a G-d or even a concept of a nation for that matter. They survived British colonization and are now being returned huge swathes of their land.

      “Look how we revived our state, our language. Look at the number of Nobel Prizes… “

      Irrelevant to the actual legal status of Israel’s sovereign extent and its illegal activities as the Occupying Power over non-Israeli territories.

      “look at how we fight for our survival …”

      Israel has only ever fought to illegally acquire more territory and to retain the territory it has illegally acquired. The rest was irrelevant to the actual legal status of Israel’s sovereign extent and its illegal activities as the Occupying Power over non-Israeli territories.

      “Just look at what we became. We are now the 3rd country on the Nasdaq …. “

      Irrelevant to the actual legal status of Israel’s sovereign extent and its illegal activities as the Occupying Power over non-Israeli territories. What you have become is a rogue state.

      “look at what we invented,”

      Irrelevant to the actual legal status of Israel’s sovereign extent and its illegal activities as the Occupying Power over non-Israeli territories.

      ” how we absorbed millions of refugees from different cultures”

      One. The Jewish culture and irrelevant to the actual legal status of Israel’s sovereign extent and its illegal activities as the Occupying Power over non-Israeli territories.

      ” You want to impose on us a one state solution.”

      By illegally acquiring more and more non-Israeli territory, the Jewish state is imposing it on itself.

      “Do you know that Chinese are now coming in droves to invest in us “

      One investor = droves LOL … Say is that the same China with an atrocious human rights record that BDS supporters should also boycott?

      ” if you really worry about Palestinians – help them to agree to what was offered by Baraq or Olmert, essentially 100% with land swaps.”

      Swapping Palestinian territory for Palestinian territory so Israel can keep Palestinian territory? Some deal shlameal

      “Let us finish this non sense, make peace “

      OK!!! Israel was required and agreed to withdraw from all Egypt’s territory BEFORE peaceful relations were assumed. Read the Peace Treaty

      “then convince and help the Palestinians to get into some sort of union with Jordan. “

      They’re not a part of Jordan.

      “Jordan is 90.000 with some 6 mln people and more than 50% Palestinians”

      Jordanians are ALL Jordanian. Palestinians who didn’t live in the region that became Jordan are not from Jordan

      “Can you imagine how much the peace with such a non ordinary nation like Israel can benefit this Palestine/Jordan state?”

      After having ethnically cleansed Israel of Palestinians..

      Why not? “

      You’re advocating ethnic cleansing. The Palestinians have a right to self determination…ever heard of it?

      “In Hebrew we say – al tihie tzodek – tihie haham (don’t be right, be wise)… Let’s be wise, ah?

      When are you going to start? It’s neither wise or right to break the law. It’s neither wise or right to advocate ethnic cleansing. It’s certainly not wise to brag about irrelevant achievements

    • RoHa
      October 8, 2013, 11:16 pm

      “Israel has never been a “regular” country. Israel has never been an ordinary nation.”

      And yet defenders of Israel repeatedly invoke the idea of Israel being just another country, and complain that Israel is judged by different standards.

      “We’re no worse than Saudi Arabia.”

    • NormanF
      October 9, 2013, 4:40 am

      Fnlevit,

      We’re the only Zionists on here. But the regular posters on Mondoweiss don’t consider the other side of the question.

      The real issue, my friend – is do Jews have the right of national self-determination like every other people on earth? We answer it in the affirmative.

      And until the Arabs acknowledge it is legitimate , moral and just – peace in the Middle East in truth will remain impossible.

      • Shingo
        October 10, 2013, 2:09 am

        We’re the only Zionists on here. But the regular posters on Mondoweiss don’t consider the other side of the question.

        We’ve been beaten over the heads with the other side of the question for decades. The fact is that it is you who can’t bear to hear the other side of the question or object to having it expressed.

        s do Jews have the right of national self-determination like every other people on earth?

        Of course they do and they exercise it in many countries. What you insit on is the right to rule at the expense of rights of other people’s national self-determination.

        You and your ilk have decided that the self determination of the Palestinians needs to be sacrificed so you can impose ethnocentric supremacist rule in one patch of territory. The reality is that this repugnant concept is a tough sell.

      • talknic
        October 10, 2013, 3:00 am

        NormanF “..the regular posters on Mondoweiss don’t consider the other side of the question

        The Majority here appear to be Jewish. I doubt any Jew escapes the other/Jewish/Israel side of the question, it’s inherent in Jewish life, religious or not, in favour of Zionist colonization or not.

        What has been missing is truth, fact and strange as it may seem, logic, which reveals the side of the question we’ve been indoctrinated to believe, to be a scam, false, nonsense and completely against the basic tenets of Judaism.

        ” do Jews have the right of national self-determination like every other people on earth?”

        Yes. There is already a State of Israel “proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947” Even without Israel American Jews can vote.. ditto in Australia, in fact in the majority of places where Jews reside they have the right to self determination

        “And until the Arabs acknowledge it is legitimate , moral and just”

        Illegal acquisition of territory, illegal annexation, illegal settlements are NOT moral or just

        ” – peace in the Middle East in truth will remain impossible”

        How about Israel simply gets out of all non-Israeli territory for once. It has never been tried. No one forces Israel to be belligerent, occupy or illegally acquire territory and illegally settle. Its criminality is self imposed

      • Eurosabra
        October 10, 2013, 5:45 am

        It’s pretty much a waste of time, but it does lead people like me who really are in Jewish Studies to a bit of cheer to see that even here there are people who are more assertively Israel-friendly than my own stream of Labor Zionism. Anti-Israeli thinkers as a whole think that the “Ezrahut”/”Le’om” distinction is immoral and anti-democratic, yet no one bothered Greece very much, because a nominally Christian nation can make the ID card distinction between “Citizenship” and “Religion” and use religion as a one-t0-one proxy for ethnonational affiliation. A Jewish nation-state cannot, particularly when some very mobilized people want that nation-state to cease to be. They have made the stance very clear, which leads me to be very sanguine about possibilities for pluralism. My own outlook is grim, being partially influenced by a group of Jews who were treated as “dhimmis” by Muslims and “natives of the mosaic faith” by the French, and whose eventual citizenship in 1962 after uncountable years as chattel was a purely ex gratia French exile. So the answer here is that Jews are not a nation, not a people, but physical objects of the Exile, Bialik’s mice, to live and die as others, always non-Jews, may desire, after either serious thought on the Jewish Question or on a whim or according to an unequal contract of Omar.

        Fortunately, the State of Israel exists to forestall this traditional form of Jewish life (and death). Whether meditation on an Israeli identity divorced from national ethnos is fruitful or not (and for whom, and who/whom) is another variable, not particularly influenced by the potential extension of Palestinian identity to those Jews present before 1917 (PLO Charter). The continual evocation of Algeria is going to be galling to Israelis who understand that the objective is to make them undergo the deportation, dispossession, and cultural annihilation experienced by the indigenous Jews of the Sahara.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 10, 2013, 8:28 am

        “Anti-Israeli thinkers as a whole think that the “Ezrahut”/”Le’om” distinction is immoral and anti-democratic, yet no one bothered Greece very much, because a nominally Christian nation can make the ID card distinction between “Citizenship” and “Religion” and use religion as a one-t0-one proxy for ethnonational affiliation.”

        Well, zio, the Greeks aren’t running an ethno-religious Apartheid state, like the Jews in the Levant. If they weren’t, I doubt anyone would care what was on the “israeli” ID card.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 10, 2013, 8:48 am

        “The real issue, my friend – is do Jews have the right of national self-determination like every other people on earth?”

        Oh, bs. That’s never been the question. And you people know it, too. That’s why you make up serial lies and libels like, “It’s a land without people for a people without land” or claim that most Paletinians are recent immigrants or that they’ve only been “a people” since 1967, etc. These are all lies, and you know it, but you promulgate them because the issue isn’t — and has never been — whether the Jews have the right to self determination. The issue is whether the Jews can subjugate another people and steal their land in the Jews’ exercise of self-determination.

        “And until the Arabs acknowledge it is legitimate , moral and just – peace in the Middle East in truth will remain impossible.”

        No, peace in the Middle East will remain impossible until the zionists acknowledge the fact that their actions in stealing the land of another, ethnically cleansing them and enacted an attempted genocide against them was one of the great evils and crimes of the 19th, 20th, and 21st Centuries. The zionists must further beg forgiveness for those crimes from their victims, and work for true justice for the Palestinians, with full compensation to those victims and the implimentation of a regime that respects the equality and full civil and political rights of all people in the region. Then peace may come.

      • Talkback
        October 10, 2013, 6:35 pm

        NormanF says: “The real issue, my friend – is do Jews have the right of national self-determination like every other people on earth? We answer it in the affirmative.”

        People don’t have a right to self determination simply because they belong to a certain ethno-religious group. It is a civic right. They must be inhabitants/citizens of the territory. The only people in historic Palestine who had the right to decide its future in 1948 were only the citizens of Palestine wether they were Jewish or Arab. But we all know that the Zionist Junta has a problem with majority decisions if Jews are a minority. It prefers keeping Nonjews expelled. And here you are talking about self determination for Jews “like every other people of the earth”. Where is the right to self determination for those who you keep even expelled and denationalized? Don’t you realize how pathetic you sound?

    • amigo
      October 9, 2013, 7:39 am

      “In Hebrew we say – al tihie tzodek – tihie haham (don’t be right, be wise)… Let’s be wise, ah? ” levit

      You are neither right or wise levit.

      Your beloved Israel is finished.Just a matter of time before Jews start the reverse Aliyah and crack heads like you will fight to the end (well maybe not you)and end up as citizens of the New DEMOCRATIC State with equality and justice for ALL.

      You wont like not being able to put your jackboot on the second class Untermenschen with impunity.

      I feel sorry for you.Your future is somewhat dim , at best.

      Keep on teaching your hatred to your poor unsuspecting students and turn them into human shields for your so called Greater Israel fantasy.

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 9, 2013, 8:39 am

      ” Nation which gave birth to three major world religions ”

      Bull. Judaism is a fine religion, as far as they go, but to say it’s a “major world religion” is laughable. It’s a small, tribal religion practiced with any frequency in one small corner of the Middle East and in a few cities in North America. Further, to say that the Jewish nation “gave birth” to Christianity or Islam is stretching the point. The Arab people gave birth to Islam and Christianity only became a thing when it was opened to non-Jews. In both cases you can say that the Jewish nation was the midwife, but nothing more.

      “Look how we revived our state,”

      You didn’t revive anything. Yes, some Jews controlled that area for about 15 minutes back in the Bronze Age, but to say that it has anything to do with the zionist Apartheid state is to engage in an abuse of history akin to Holocaust denial.

      “look at how we fight for our survival against all odds for 65 years with zero experience in modern warfare.”

      Oh, BS. After the war there was a huge influx of zio criminals who fought in the second world war who decided to fight for the creation of your zionist Apartheid state, with the help of states such as Communist Czechoslovakia. “Against all odds” my ass.

      “help them to agree to what was offered by Baraq or Olmert, essentially 100% with land swaps.”

      Why would anyone want to help you criminals consolidate your crimes?

      “Let us finish this non sense, make peace”

      Fine. Pull back all of your criminals back behind the green line and accept the Arab Peace Initiative without reservation. But you people don’t want peace, you want your jackboots crushing Palestinian skulls and your arms murdering Palestinian children, forever.

      “and then convince and help the Palestinians to get into some sort of union with Jordan.”

      Yeah, what’s a little ethnic cleansing and slow-motion genocide…

    • kma
      October 9, 2013, 12:55 pm

      fulovit says: “we absorbed millions of refugees from different cultures”.
      how many Syrian refugees? how many Iraqi? I hear neighboring countries are overflowing with millions of refugees, not to mention the Palestinian refugees from Palestine.
      how is Israel doing on that refugee thing? I hear they are still creating more every day. I hear that they don’t even want to talk about taking back any that they created.

      definitely fullofit.

  10. seafoid
    October 8, 2013, 6:04 pm

    They wouldn’t be able to dispossess and expel Palestinians with Israeli passports if there were an Israeli nationality. The Supreme Court has to be ready for the endgame. Israel is such a sham nation. The Orange Order looks progressive compared to Zionism.

  11. RoHa
    October 8, 2013, 8:27 pm

    Do we need any more proof that Zionists are nuts?

  12. OlegR
    October 9, 2013, 8:49 am

    A question should be asked how many Palestinian citizens of Israel are willing to switch their nationality to Israeli.
    The answer would be not many just like there were only 21 petitioners (all Jews i assume) in this case.

    Courts don’t create nationalities ,laws don’t create nationalities.
    People create nationalities and both Jewish and Arab/Palestinian citizens of Israel
    are quite comfortable with theirs.

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 9, 2013, 11:47 am

      Russian, I’m sure if the zio court has permitted it, many Palestinians would switch, if only in an attempt to reduce the amount of official racism by you and your buddies they have to suffer.

    • talknic
      October 9, 2013, 12:04 pm

      OlegR “A question should be asked how many Palestinian citizens of Israel are willing to switch their nationality to Israeli”

      How strange … citizens of Israel with a passport already have Israeli Nationality http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Isr_pass_biom_2013_inside.JPG

      • Eurosabra
        October 10, 2013, 5:52 am

        “Ezrahut” should probably be translated as “Citizenship” and not “Nationality”. Commenters like Shmuel and Danaa will probably differ with me on that point. I’m surprised that no one noticed “Soviet Union” as “Place of Birth”, which would normally lead to epithets like “land thief, Khazar, Cossack” here.

      • Shmuel
        October 10, 2013, 6:20 am

        “Ezrahut” should probably be translated as “Citizenship” and not “Nationality”.

        The problem is not so much with ezrahut (which can be translated either “citizenship” or “nationality”), as with le’om, which is a non-existent category in English-language bureaucracy. “Ethnicity” might work.

      • talknic
        October 10, 2013, 7:59 am

        Mmmmm. The Israeli Government prefer “Nationality”

      • OlegR
        October 10, 2013, 8:20 am

        Leom is translated as nation.
        Citizenship is ezrahut.

      • Shmuel
        October 10, 2013, 8:25 am

        Mmmmm. The Israeli Government prefer “Nationality”

        As do the governments of Canada and Italy (and many others, I’m sure). In official English, “nationality” means “citizenship”.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 10, 2013, 9:39 am

        “I’m surprised that no one noticed “Soviet Union” as “Place of Birth”, which would normally lead to epithets like “land thief, Khazar, Cossack” here.”

        Well, land theft certainly is not limited to the Russsian zionists. As for the others, if we took the time to point out all of the “israelis” who were from the Soviet Union or other places around the room, that’d be all we would talk about. They are the rule, not the exception.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 10, 2013, 9:40 am

        “As do the governments of Canada and Italy (and many others, I’m sure). In official English, “nationality” means “citizenship”.”

        And if there were no discriminatory results from that, the question would be merely academic.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 10, 2013, 10:24 am

        “other places around the room”

        Weird typo. Should be “around the world”…

      • Shmuel
        October 10, 2013, 10:52 am

        And if there were no discriminatory results from that, the question would be merely academic.

        Of course, but if we are going to discuss the discrimination inherent to Israel’s ethnocratic system, I think it’s important to get the terminology straight. Barghouti hints at the problem by referring to “nationality or ethnicity”.

        “Nationality” in English (or nationalité in French) is synonymous with “citizenship” and Israel has one “nationality” (ezrahut in Hebrew) only: Israeli.

        Israeli “nationals” (and residents) are subdivided into categories however, some of which refer to “ethnicities” (in the case of those that matter: Jews, Arabs, Druze, Circassians, Samaritans, etc.), while others merely refer to “citizenship of origin” (for those who do not belong to one of the above “ethnicities”): Norwegians, Hondurans, Micronesians, etc.

        This subdivision of Israeli nationals (and residents) falls under the heading le’om in Hebrew, and should not be confused with “nationality”, which is synonymous with “citizenship” in English and other languages.

        Barghouti’s “nationality or ethnicity” is thus technically correct, but confusing. I think “ethnicity” works better as shorthand, but explained in full, le’om would be something like “ethnicity, or citizenship of origin where ethnicity is not considered relevant by the Interior Ministry”.

      • talknic
        October 10, 2013, 10:57 am
      • Shmuel
        October 10, 2013, 11:10 am

        Oh Well. I’ll go with officialdom link to mfa.gov.il

        The document in question refers to “nationality” in the sense of “citizenship” (ezrahaut). The two are interchangeable in international officialdom. For example, Italian passports have the heading “Cittadinanza. Nationality. Nationalité”, while Italian residency permits have “Cittadinanza. Citizenship”. That Israeli officialdom chooses one over the other (the more common one, I believe) means nothing really.

    • RoHa
      October 9, 2013, 7:37 pm

      “laws don’t create nationalities.”

      If you want Australian nationality you have to fulfil certain legal requirements. You can’t just declare yourself an Australian national and get a passport.

      • OlegR
        October 10, 2013, 8:17 am

        Sure now, but Australian nationality (in the sense common grounds
        purposes the feeling of belonging ) was not created by a legal decree
        it formed over time by the people.

      • Shingo
        October 10, 2013, 6:45 pm

        Sure now, but Australian nationality (in the sense common grounds purposes the feeling of belonging ) was not created by a legal decree
        it formed over time by the people.

        Australian nationality and citizenship are one and the same. It is recognized that the only native people are the aborigines.

      • RoHa
        October 10, 2013, 7:42 pm

        “Australian nationality (in the sense common grounds
        purposes the feeling of belonging )”

        But that isn’t what “nationality” means.

        Now how does having common purposes and the feeling of belonging reduce or explain the absurdity of Israel denying the legal category of “Israeli nationality”?

      • OlegR
        October 11, 2013, 7:21 am

        /But that isn’t what “nationality” means./

        That’s the thing the petitioners did not try to change nationality paragraph
        when nationality means citizenship.

        Israel does not deny the legal category Israeli nationality in the sense of when nationality means citizenship.I am an Israeli national an Israeli citizen, just like Abir Kopty is one for example.(An interesting surname for a representative of an indigenous people btw but that’s beside the point.)

        Leom which is the paragraph that the petitioners tried to expand is not citizenship it is closer to nation based on common ethnicity, history language,culture ,cultureal values, a sense of shared destiny, that later creates the required legal framework which in time becomes nationality that you are talking about.
        The Israeli nation in that sense has not yet formed partly because the Jewish component of the future nation has not intermingled enough to achieve the required cohesion it would take a couple more generations imho . Not to mention the Israeli Arabs with their conflicted identity
        between Israeli and Palestinian.

      • RoHa
        October 12, 2013, 1:00 am

        “The Israeli nation in that sense has not yet formed partly because the Jewish component of the future nation has not intermingled enough to achieve the required cohesion it would take a couple more generations imho . Not to mention the Israeli Arabs with their conflicted identity
        between Israeli and Palestinian.”

        But why doesn’t Israel try to help the cohesion along, instead of dividing up the population by this silly distinction between “nationality” and “citizenship”?

  13. NickJOCW
    October 9, 2013, 11:20 am

    What is this entity that has no fixed borders but lays claim to territory, doesn’t want ‘citizens’, enforces only its own laws, and insists on religious adherence? On reflection, it seems to me less like a state in the accepted modern sense of the word and more like a nomadic tribe engaged in a process of transition to settlement life.

    • OlegR
      October 11, 2013, 7:22 am

      Well in a sense we the Jews are a nomadic tribe that wondered the world for 2000 years and now it’s trying to settle down. Give us a couple 200 years.

      • RoHa
        October 12, 2013, 1:01 am

        “Well in a sense we the Jews are a nomadic tribe that wondered the world for 2000 years and now it’s trying to settle down.”

        Not in any real sense, of course.

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