Jewish community commits intellectual suicide before our eyes

Israel/Palestine
on 194 Comments
Judith Butler

Judith Butler

Three acts of censorship in New York demonstrate the desperate pass to which Zionism has brought the American Jewish community: we are walking away from our greatest treasure, literacy.

Two days ago I reported that the Museum of Jewish Heritage had spiked a panel featuring John Judis’s book on Truman and Israel because that book, which says that Truman was for the separation of church and state and took a dim view of Zionism but the lobby compelled him to act against his principles, is just too scary and controversial.

Yesterday we reported that Ramaz School in New York had barred Rashid Khalidi from speaking and that students had risen up demanding that the prohibition be lifted. Jerry Haber says:

No doubt the school is fearful of alienating its donor base. No explanation has been given so far.

(I’ve called and emailed Paul Shaviv, the head of school, but he’s offered no explanation of the decision.)

Then there’s the news that Judith Butler was supposed to give a talk about Kafka at the Jewish Museum of NY on March 6 and withdrew after people began flipping out over her endorsement of BDS (boycott, divestment and sanctions of Israel). Again, donor pressure is cited.

Despite the event being non-political, critics contended that hosting someone who advocates against Israel at a museum that receives charitable contributions from the Jewish community crossed the line.

“The hosting of [BDS] advocate Judith Butler by The Jewish Museum is a slap in the face to every Jew,” Richard Allen, head of JCC Watch, told JNS.org.

The museum said in a statement, “[Butler] was chosen on the basis of her expertise on the subject matter to be discussed. While her political views were not a factor in her participation, the debates about her politics have become a distraction making it impossible to present the conversation about Kafka as intended.”

This is truly disgraceful. The Jewish community is in IQ freefall, and it’s happening before our eyes. The crazy uncles in our community are putting their feet down about who can come into the house, and other forbears are accepting the prohibitions out of some tribal impulse that recalls the self-destruction of the Shabbatai Tzvi collective delusion of the 1600s.

Young Jews are rising up against the censorship but it’s going to take a long time to turn this trend around. In the last year or so there have been stark acts of censorship by the 92d Street Y and Washington DC Jewish Community Center and Hillel International; and so many other Jewish institutions have red lines about who can’t speak that it boggles the mind. I’ve waited so long to see a production of David Zellnik’s magnificent play on Sharon and Herzl that he’s had to change the title once and surely will have to do so again because of the death of a main character.

It’s tragic, and embarrassing. The Jewish community is rebranding Jewish culture, from the brave civilization that gave us the greatest minds of the last 100 years, Einstein, Marx and Freud, as my mother used to brag to me, to a community that’s scared of Israel’s shadow. And p.s., it’s a very long shadow.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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194 Responses

  1. just
    February 21, 2014, 10:44 am

    Great article, Phil.

    It’s tragic, indeed.

    • Krauss
      February 21, 2014, 11:59 am

      Masada.

      • seafoid
        February 21, 2014, 3:59 pm

        Krauss

        Masada was not the whole community as I understand it.
        It was more like the Jonestown thing.

        American Judaism has so much more going for it than Israel.
        Back to that Pew survey. 18% think following Jewish law makes them Jewish. 42% think having a sense of humor does.

        In Israel being Jewish is about believing in torture.

    • Giles
      February 21, 2014, 3:56 pm

      Censorship is required when you are protecting your lies

  2. CitizenC
    February 21, 2014, 10:58 am

    It has been happening since the early 1960s, when the success of liberalism and the prospect of assimilation led to the “first Jewish continuity crisis” and measures to head off intermarriage and other liberal horrors from the American Jewish Committee. See Marianne Sanua’s history of the American Jewish Committee post-1945, for this and later episodes.

    This tendency was fatally supercharged by Israel’s dramatic victory in 1967. Read Jacob Neusner’s collection Stranger at Home, from the 1970s and 1980s, the telling passages about the insularity and chauvinism of American Jews–from a Conservative Judaic scholar, not some peacenik. See ditto in Peter Novick’s book on the Holocaust in American life. See Peter Beinart’s kid glove treatment of same in “The American Cocoon” in the NY Review late last year.

    As I argued in my recent “Theses on Zionism” the modern period of Jewish history has ended. The social and political outlook of the Enlightenment, of emancipation and integration, has been replaced by “the Jewish people” in the form of the Jewish state and the organized Jewish communities abroad, as the Jewish social principle. This outlook has also deeply informed the left.

    Here are my “Theses” http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/01/17/theses-on-zionism/

    responding to a piece of the same name by Joseph Massad http://electronicintifada.net/content/theses-zionism/12982

  3. bintbiba
    February 21, 2014, 11:07 am

    Phil, you,Adam and the rest of your team are the heroes of your generation.
    You are instrumental in the evolving change, and rest assured that nothing can change the thrust .

  4. ritzl
    February 21, 2014, 11:23 am

    Agree w/ just and bintbiba.

    There’s more than a tinge of sad irony in a bunch of faceless, nameless people interfering with a literary discussion of Kafka. That alone must surely make people aware that they are living/participating in the tragedy, not just observing it from some “safe” distance.

  5. seafoid
    February 21, 2014, 11:29 am

    “This is truly disgraceful. The Jewish community is in IQ freefall, and it’s happening before our eyes. ”

    Zionism is just not worth it.
    Second collapse of Jewish community leadership in less than 80 years.

    The first collapse involved leaders collaborating in the destruction of their own people. The second involves denying them intellectual nourishment.

    • Walid
      February 21, 2014, 11:48 am

      Great music.

    • ritzl
      February 21, 2014, 6:59 pm

      Irish pipes are almost unbearably evocative. Thanks seafoid.

    • amigo
      February 21, 2014, 10:07 pm

      Thank you seafoid.

      It makes me laugh, it makes me cry,it makes me weep it gives me joy.
      It touches my senses and purify s my soul , finds me empty and leaves me whole.

      The Harp and Pipes are truly what Irish music are all about.

    • Annie Robbins
      February 21, 2014, 11:21 pm

      beautiful~~!

    • ziusudra
      February 23, 2014, 4:04 am

      Greetings seafoid,
      A haunting triumphant tribute to the Celtics of a 4K yr. sedantary culture in
      Scotti Pict =(Latin, scottish painted pictures) tribes,
      Ire’s = (Celtic,copper) tribes,
      Brits = (Celtic, Tin) tribes.
      ziusudra
      PS Thanks, seafoid, you seem to be appropiate on all topics.

      • seafoid
        February 23, 2014, 5:06 pm

        I was reading about that piece. The Catholic church in Ireland banned the tradition of the caoineadh (where women would come to the home of the deceased and cry , to get the grief going) and the caoineadh was transferred to music. They were afraid of the power of the people. And the tradition was originally pagan and didn’t go with the Victorian era.

        There are a few other caoineadh and they are all powerful.

        But Caoineadh Chu Chulainn is the daddy .

  6. Dan Walsh
    February 21, 2014, 11:32 am

    It is worth mentioning here something about the cascade effect these disgraceful censorship and proscription gambits have on SECULAR culture. For example, the 127 presidents of US universities who signed an anti-BDS letter were acting not in the interests of their universities or their faculties or students but out of a warped sense of commitment to Zionism. Their letter amounts to a public genuflection to an alien, foreign ideology and qualifies them, in my view, for dismissal. We should act to prevent all future episode of censorship from being carried out anonymously: until and unless we can firmly identify the players behind these decisions to erode our historic traditions of free speech, via a vibrant and unrelenting push-back, they will continue.

    • gingershot
      February 23, 2014, 8:24 pm

      ‘We should act to prevent all future episode of censorship from being carried out anonymously: until and unless we can firmly identify the players behind these decisions to erode our historic traditions of free speech, via a vibrant and unrelenting push-back, they will continue’

      so very well said

  7. bintbiba
    February 21, 2014, 11:38 am

    Aaaah seafoid….arrows through my heart!!!
    Beautiful….I wish you could hear my son play Bach on the flute!

    • seafoid
      February 21, 2014, 4:05 pm

      We’ll have to have a get together, all of us. I think there’s a community center in Kiryat Arba that’ll be vacant soon and would be big enough for the crowd.

      • just
        February 21, 2014, 4:13 pm

        seafoid– that is haunting and mournful and fitting to your comment.

        I’ve often thought how very lovely it would be to have a ‘get together’ with the folks here. At least I’ve found MW!

        (bintbiba– perhaps one day, in celebration and joy!)

      • seafoid
        February 21, 2014, 5:11 pm

        For me that music is like when death arrives or everything falls apart and there is no more fantasy . Very appropriate to Zionism now.

      • irishmoses
        February 21, 2014, 5:26 pm

        Anybody (other than me) going to the National Summit to Reassess the US-Israel Special Relationship in Washington DC on Friday, March 7?

        I’d like to get together with any other MW attendees but we’ll need a secret sign to identify each other. Looks like quite an event with a lot of good speakers and panels. Stephen Walt, Paul Pillar, Michael Scheuer, and a bunch of others including Dr. Quigley who wrote a couple of great IP books.

        Here’s the link: http://www.natsummit.org/

        Hah, I just saw Phil Weiss is listed as a speaker! Maybe we won’t need a secret sign.

        NOTE TO MONDOWEISS CENTRAL: YOU SHOULD PROMOTE THIS IMPORTANT EVENT, MAYBE WITH AN ARTICLE OR A NOTICE ON THE MAIN MW PAGE.

      • just
        February 21, 2014, 6:14 pm

        How I wish I could be there….. I will definitely steer friends that way.

      • quercus
        February 22, 2014, 4:01 pm

        @irishmoses. I will be at the National Summit and I just saw from your post that Phil Weiss will be there. What sign can be use? What about a circle enclosing the letters MW?

      • quercus
        February 22, 2014, 4:03 pm

        @irishmoses. Forgot to add: put that symbol on your name tag.

      • irishmoses
        February 23, 2014, 8:18 am

        Quercus and any other National Summit to Reassess the US-Israel Special Relationship attenders (March 7 in Washington DC) our sign will be a large “MW” on our convention name tags with your MW handle (“Irish Moses”) listed underneath.

      • bintbiba
        February 21, 2014, 5:51 pm

        Just, Seafoid…. What a lovely thought.
        Just come over to London and I’ll cook some Ma’loobi and Palestinian chicken msakhkhan. Would make me so happy. I’ll play you some great CD’s..also introduce you to my semi- resident artist.

      • just
        February 21, 2014, 6:08 pm

        It would be a dream come true, bintbiba. Your grace is most welcome. ;)

      • amigo
        February 21, 2014, 10:40 pm

        bintbiba, maybe if Ireland meets England in the 6 nations cup final in Twickenham I will be over for the game and would love to say hello.Maybe we might have an Irish/Palestinian celebration.Ireland and Palestine have much in common.

      • seafoid
        February 22, 2014, 2:14 am

        Bintbiba

        That sounds lovely. I used to go to Maroush on the Edgware Road for the odd shawarma when I was living in London. I was doing Arabic at jaamiat Westminster and I’d try to talk to the fellas behind the counter but I only knew basic fusha and had no amiya so it was a bit awkward.

        After I got educated in Filisteen I went back and had a proper chat. Most of them were from Lebanon. There was one very quiet man who didn’t say much. I asked him if he was Lebanese and he said :

        Ana Filisteeni. Min Haifa.

      • irishmoses
        February 21, 2014, 5:33 pm

        Count me in. Kiryat Arba, that’s in Israel, right?

      • bintbiba
        February 22, 2014, 9:18 am

        Hey seafoid, just, irishmoses , amigo… all welcome. Just give these old bones a little notice .We also have to find each other. I give permission to MW to give you my email address. If necessary, will put it out here .

  8. Annie Robbins
    February 21, 2014, 11:48 am

    thanks phil. no other words.

  9. Cliff
    February 21, 2014, 11:49 am

    This is wonderful. I think it’s great the organized Jewish community is attacking individualistic, moral, courageous Jews like Prof. Butler.

    Things have to get worse and worse for non-Jews to stop turning a blind eye to Zionism.

  10. pabelmont
    February 21, 2014, 12:05 pm

    I once attended a talk by Dershowitz who explained that Harvard’s refusal to hire Jewish professors came to an end, finally, and to Dershowitz’s benefit, when Harvard realized that by refusing to hire Jewish professors they were allowing universities such as UC-Berkeley to get ahead of them in the matter of excellence of faculty.

    Now, as you report, the Zionist-donor crowd is refusing across-the-board to deal head-on with the problem of Zionism, even refusing to “hire” (or at least to allow Jews to “hear”) Jews critical of Zionism.

    There is nothing at all new about this. In 1984, Vanessa Redgrave was hired — and then fired — by the Boston symphony for a performance that had nothing to do with her support for the PLO. The Zionist-Donor community closed their minds and their purses, showing all the world how narrow-minded and ruthless they were.

    And here we are again.

    Time for others in the Jewish Communities (and not just this site) to say that enough is enough.

    • MRW
      February 21, 2014, 12:10 pm

      “Time for others in the Jewish Communities (and not just this site) to say that enough is enough.”
      They won’t.

    • lysias
      February 21, 2014, 5:44 pm

      What time period was Dershowitz talking about? Felix Frankfurter was hired as a full professor by Harvard Law School before 1917. Around this time, Harry Wolfson was a full professor of Jewish Literature and Philosophy, Milton Rosenau was a full professor of Medicine, and Paul Sachs was an associate professor of Fine Arts. Oscar Handlin taught at Harvard from 1939 to 1984. I believe he became a full professor in the 1950’s, and he was made head of a newly formed institute there in 1958. I think Henry Kissinger would have had to have been already a full professor — or at least an associate professor on tenure track — when he was made associate director of Harvard’s Center for International Affairs in 1957.

      • Daniel Rich
        February 22, 2014, 3:12 am

        @ lysias,

        You expect Dershowitz to tell the truth?

      • Ellen
        February 23, 2014, 11:21 am

        Dershowitz was telling stories. His fantasy realities to support his nether reality. There was no such period and he never backed up those statements with citation of facts. Harvard never called him out on it.

  11. irishmoses
    February 21, 2014, 12:06 pm

    Worse yet is the moral suicide.

    This piece by Alan Hart Judaism and Zionism: A Divorce in the Making? shows the danger of Jews avoiding the intellectual and moral implications of Israeli Zionism, and how their avoidance could transform anti-Israelism into anti-Semitism.

    http://www.redressonline.com/2014/02/judaism-and-zionism-a-divorce-in-the-making/

    The piece has a great Paul Krugman quote on the reason why Jews aren’t coming to terms with the immoral reality of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians:

    Brownfield then quoted the answer to that question given by Paul Krugman, the Princeton economist and New York Times columnist: “The truth is that like many liberal American Jews – and most American Jews are still liberal – basically avoid thinking about where Israel is going.” Krugman’s explanation of why was “the high price for speaking out”, which is “to bring yourself under intense attack from organized groups that try to make any criticism of Israel’s policies tantamount to anti-Semitism”.

    This piece is a must read.

    I think that transformation may already be in its beginning, subtle stages as Jews everywhere are more and more identified with “their” Jewish State and its policies. When we were in Vienna last summer, and I spent our last day at the Mauthausen concentration camp. It had it all: gassing room, ovens, the deadly 170 step climb from the stone quarry to the loading points, all located at the top of a hill in the beautiful Austrian countryside. On the train and bus ride there I thought about how friendly and jolly the Austrians were, and how wonderfully efficient their country. I saw them differently on the ride back to Vienna at the end of that day, and I always will. Unfair to be sure; none of the Austrians I encountered were remotely involved with the Holocaust, yet it is permanently attached to them, as it is to the Germans.

    I find myself beginning to associate Jews with Israel in sort of a semi-conscious, fleeting thought way. Why am I noticing their Jewishness? I don’t recall doing that before. Why does my fleeting thought attach them to Israel? None, or at most very few, have anything to do with Israel let alone its oppression of the Palestinians. All I can say is that it seems similar to my post-Mauthausen reaction to the Austrians, a kind of sadness, a disappointment, a sense that there is some moral failure, an indirect responsibility. Unfair to be sure, but that attachment, as fleeting as it is, is beginning in me. I think that’s something to worry about.

    I won’t transform from an anti-Israelite into an anti-Semite, I’m neither. If anything, I’m an anti-Zionism-as-practiced-in-Israel-ite. But, I am slowly beginning to feel myself seeing Jews as somehow different in that initial, semi-conscious, fleeting sort of way. That scares me personally, and should scare all of us to the extent that my experience may be becoming typical.

  12. Krauss
    February 21, 2014, 12:07 pm

    This reflects the fact that Zionism is slowly being argued on its merits from a purely ideological perspective where it always belonged: from its victims, rather as a justification for past suffering, which has been the dominant narrative for much of the postwar era.

    This is an really an existential debate, not a political one.

    Older Jews, whose identity revolves around Zionism, are being pressured from both sides: first you have the specter of assimilation of young American Jewry and increasingly even middle-aged American Jews(on their 2nd and 3rd marriages). The second is the revolution of the debate over Israel in America these past five years. Cast Lead was a turning point.

    It’s no longer even about fightning the battle against others; it’s keeping the lines at home intact that is being increasingly difficult.

    I think there is a great amount of fear that is going on. People in their late stages of life, fearing that what happened to their parents will haunt their grandchildren. (Of course, if you ask young Jews, we will laugh at this, anti-Semitism is more or less gone from America, but this is the lens the older, richer and more conservative elements within our community sees the world).

    Seth Klarman says, with a straight face, that these times reminds him of the 1930s. He tried to bankroll a quisling Palestinian group in D.C., to be the American equivalent of Fatah, but that has failed big time. Times of Israel is doing okay, but its known for its right-wing, even neocon, bias.

    People who have been brought up with the belief that Zionism = Judaism are now having existential depression, because if Zionism comes to an end, then by definition, so will their entire identity as Jews.

    These people are fightning like wounded lions to prolong the inevitable.
    They are like tragic heroes, who fight until the bitter end for a doomed effort.
    Only that there is nothing heroic about Apartheid and we should not shed a tear when it is doomed.

    • gingershot
      February 23, 2014, 9:02 pm

      ‘People who have been brought up with the belief that Zionism = Judaism are now having existential depression, because if Zionism comes to an end, then by definition, so will their entire identity as Jews.’

      Absolutely right – it will be a shattering experience to realize (which many won’t – forcing themselves to keep trying to keep it subconscious) the support for such malevolence, year after year, and in everybody one has ever trusted.

      This is like a member of your family getting convicted of murder, and yourself as an accessory because you happily offered to drive the getaway car, when you thought of yourself as moral, stable, and intelligent.

  13. MRW
    February 21, 2014, 12:09 pm

    It’s tragic, and embarrassing.

    And dragging American culture down with it.

  14. adele
    February 21, 2014, 12:21 pm

    Judith Butler is a treasure, we may not be lucky enough to be her students but her lectures are readily available on youtube, not to mention all the books she has authored. She has truly enriched my intellectual life. For me, censoring her scholarship is like the burning of books by barbaric invaders. It pains me.

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=judith+butler&sm=3
    http://www.goodreads.com/author/list/5231.Judith_Butler

  15. seafoid
    February 21, 2014, 12:30 pm

    “On Zion grew out of a series of lectures delivered by Buber in 1944. World War II was still raging. News of extermination of Jews reached the West; the British administration of Palestine refused entry to Jewish refugees. The Palestinian Arabs offered stiff resistance to Zionism. Buber’s political orientation called for a binational state and for equality of rights for both Jews and Arabs. But, just as strongly, he insisted on the sacred, ethical mission implied in Zionism. Buber illustrates his strong faith by analyzing the centrality of Zion to biblical and talmudic thought, how it inspired medieval thinkers and mystics, and how it moved modern Jews from Moses Hess to Rav Kook and A.D. Gordon.”

    Oh, I thought the world of you.
    I thought nothing could go wrong,
    But I was wrong. I was wrong.
    If you, if you could get by, trying not to lie,
    Things wouldn’t be so confused and I wouldn’t feel so used

  16. Nevada Ned
    February 21, 2014, 12:31 pm

    Somebody ought to set up a “alternative perspectives” forum, for speakers who are censored by the Israel Lobby. All they need is a venue and some publicity.
    Speaking of publicity, it looks like the Israel Lobby is giving free publicity to speakers like Judith Butler and Rashid Khalidi.

    Many decades ago, film and theater producers hoped that Boston would ban their movie or play, so the movie (or play) could be advertised as

    BANNED IN BOSTON!!!

    How about this:
    COME HEAR THE SPEECH THAT THE ISRAEL LOBBY DOESN’T WANT YOU TO HEAR!

    Now, Judith Butler’s talk about Kafka might appeal only to other literary intellectuals, so the actual talk might be a letdown. Who knows?

    I think it’s important for people to hear Rashid Khalidi. And the enemy is paying him the compliment of saying that his Palestinian perspective is the one they really want to censor.
    I’ll bet the people at the Ramaz school haven’t spoken with very many Palestinians. Maybe zero. At least some people at the Ramaz school definitely do not want anyone to hear a Palestinian perspective.

  17. justicewillprevail
    February 21, 2014, 12:42 pm

    Jewish culture has a long and distinguished intellectual history. Zionism has … erm, a fanatical, paranoid hate-fuelled segregationist set of policies which are about as anti-intellectual and culturally reductionist as any other narrow, inward-obsessed cult. Zionism is destroying centuries of Jewish engagement with the world, isolating and diminishing it to the point of ridicule and depravity. The sooner zionism is seen for what it is, a backward, regressive blind alley for Judaism, the better for all of us.

  18. hophmi
    February 21, 2014, 12:49 pm

    “It’s tragic, and embarrassing. The Jewish community is rebranding Jewish culture, from the brave civilization that gave us the greatest minds of the last 100 years, Einstein, Marx and Freud, as my mother used to brag to me, to a community that’s scared of Israel’s shadow. And p.s., it’s a very long shadow.”

    I find jeremiads like this to be meretricious, and self-consciously so. I think it’s within the interest of the Jewish community to hear from a diverse set of voices, particularly in the academy, but the notion that Jewish institutions must sponsor everybody, or that by not sponsoring everybody, the Jewish community is committing intellectual suicide, is overwrought and silly. These sources are all readily available to anyone who seeks them out, whether Jewish organizations choose to validate them or not. The NAACP is not going to validate critics of affirmative action, CAIR is not going to validate people critical of Islam or of Palestinian violence, and Mondoweiss is not going to offer a guest blog post to a mainstream Zionist. I’ve not seen any jeremiads from Phil on how these communities are committing intellectual suicide.

    The Jewish community is still providing first-class intellects to the world, and that will continue whether Judith Butler drones on about Kafka at the Jewish museum or not. They were providing first-class intellects when the intellectual space was far more confined than it is today.

    • libra
      February 21, 2014, 3:32 pm

      hophmi: The Jewish community is still providing first-class intellects to the world…

      I have to agree with you here, hophmi. On this topic you would have thought that Phil, of all people, would have made the distinction between Jewish and Zionist. I mean, he’s only got to read the comments on his own blog site.

      • Hostage
        February 21, 2014, 7:31 pm

        I have to agree with you here, hophmi. On this topic you would have thought that Phil, of all people, would have made the distinction between Jewish and Zionist. I mean, he’s only got to read the comments on his own blog site.

        But he’s not writing about the Museum of Zionist Heritage or the Zionist Museum of New York, he was writing about the Museum of Jewish Heritage and the Jewish Museum of New York. So the difference between Jews and Zionism was a point that was obviously lost on Hophmi who could only offer deflection and dissimulation about the NAACP not validating critics of affirmative action. Jews, like the ones who run the Ramaz school, who claim their mission includes “A commitment to menschlichkeit, reflecting fineness of character, respect for others, integrity, and the centrality of chesed in all its manifestations.” need to quit demanding that everyone fellate the donkey for the State of Israel. There’s more than ample justification for Jews to reject the State of Israel as presently constituted as a morally bankrupt, racist, and criminal institution.

    • seafoid
      February 21, 2014, 4:10 pm
    • Krusty
      February 21, 2014, 4:45 pm

      While I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary to validate the all anti-Zionist critiques, I do think that the potential of of burgeoning epistemic closure is troubling. I agree that it’s not necessary to air grievances in every setting, but censorship is something which must be guarded closely.

      I celebrate the victory by Herzog over Toynbee in debate, and I don’t see why there’s any reticence to simply re-affirm the Zionist project in that manner. The most troubling bit is Butler, due to the non-political nature of her speech. The best reason not to see her is that she’s an awful speaker. :)

    • James North
      February 21, 2014, 5:59 pm

      hophmi: In your zeal to defend Israel, you miss the point:
      * Butler was invited to speak on Kafka, not Israel.
      * The invitation was withdrawn, not due to her views on Kafka, but because she supports BDS.
      * I didn’t realize that you already know so much about Kafka to be able to predict she would “drone on” about him, but maybe other people would learn something from her about Kafka.

    • Cliff
      February 21, 2014, 7:44 pm

      The NAACP is not going to validate critics of affirmative action, CAIR is not going to validate people critical of Islam or of Palestinian violence, and Mondoweiss is not going to offer a guest blog post to a mainstream Zionist.

      What a bunch of stupid false equivalencies.

      People can be critical of Islam and Palestinian violence. When people begin to lie/fear-monger about either, like let’s say, draw a Nazi-propaganda-like cartoon (which you Jewish supremacists/fascist do frequently) – then those organizations should close their doors.

      MW has allowed Zionists to comment here before. Why should MW allow a settler to author an article?

      What purpose would it serve to hear a religious fanatic out?

      It would be the intellectual equivalent of listening to a Holocaust denier.

      No one here needs to know your opinions on this issue. We have a very accurate impression of your personality and the kind of person you are.

      You hate non-Jews and are a pathological liar and hypocrite. Why should MW allow people like you a platform when you are stomping on the throats of Palestinians day in and day out?

      Why should any Zionist be allowed a platform to speak/write when Zionists imprison Palestinians for totalitarian reasons, such as ‘incitement’?

      The fact that you have the temerity to continue commenting here after you told Susan Abulhawa she was ‘very angry/full of anger’ is just beyond disgusting.

      Be thankful that Phil Weiss allows you to speak your hateful mind here. Without MW, you would have absolutely nowhere to spit your venom.

      • lyn117
        February 22, 2014, 3:54 am

        The NAACP is not going to validate critics of affirmative action, CAIR is not going to validate people critical of Islam or of Palestinian violence, and Mondoweiss is not going to offer a guest blog post to a mainstream Zionist.

        Ditto on false equivalences, and also completely off-target. The NAACP would very much support others supporting equal rights regardless of ethnicity, which is one of goals of BDS. Although I suppose in the case of Palestine/Israel the NAACP would not want to get itself accused of anti-semitism. CAIR is itself critical of Palestinian violence.

      • puppies
        February 22, 2014, 10:10 am

        And MW does offer a tribune to Zionists.

    • LeaNder
      February 21, 2014, 8:04 pm

      whether Judith Butler drones on about Kafka

      hopmi, couldn’t resist to show his support of anti-Butler pressure via a little condescension. The problem with his argument is that the ones he considers “first class ‘intellects'” either may not be the first class intellectuals he thinks they are or may be forgotten soon. I doubt that will happen to Butler’s work.

      I would have loved to hear her talk on Kafka:

      LRB: Judith Butler, Who Owns Kafka.

      EGS Kafka series:

      Judith Butler. Kafka and The Poetics of Non-Arrival. 2011 >7a>

      Judith Butler. How To Read Kafka. 2011

      Judith Butler. Benjamin and Kafka. 2011

      Judith Butler. The Figure of Odradek in Kafka. 2011

    • Talkback
      February 22, 2014, 4:21 am

      The Jewish community is still providing first-class intellects to the world …

      Yes, it calls them “self-haters”. LOL.

    • German Lefty
      February 22, 2014, 6:17 am

      The NAACP is not going to validate critics of affirmative action

      … which would be a big mistake. Opponents of affirmative action (i.e. reverse racism) support equal rights, just like opponents of Zionism (i.e. reverse racism) support equal rights.

      • Keith
        February 22, 2014, 6:22 pm

        GERMAN LEFTY- “Opponents of affirmative action (i.e. reverse racism) support equal rights, just like opponents of Zionism (i.e. reverse racism) support equal rights.”

        Nonsense. Correcting the consequences of past injustice requires ongoing, proactive measures to deal with those consequences. The notion that the consequences of centuries of slavery and discrimination can be overcome in a few decades is ludicrous. This country was built upon the utilization of slave labor and needs to continue to take steps to rectify the consequences of that. The notion that removing legal discrimination is adequate to enable the victims of discrimination to compete against the beneficiaries of white privilege is a joke. You may be interested to know that in labor law when an employer is found guilty of wrongful practice it is customary for the judgment to require the employer to “make the worker whole” to rectify the situation, that is, to provide a remedy which provides comparable benefit to what would have been provided had the wrongful practice not occurred. What would you imagine would be required to “make American Blacks whole” to rectify the consequences of centuries of slavery and ongoing informal discrimination? The notion that America has turned into some sort of post-racial society is the convenient rationalization of privileged white people, and the opposition to affirmative action an attempt to protect white privilege which was obtained through racist practices.

      • Citizen
        February 23, 2014, 4:45 am

        @ Keith
        I will bite–centuries of reverse racism, most especially against white males most of them sans a single slave owner in their family tree?

      • Keith
        February 23, 2014, 6:54 pm

        CITIZEN- “I will bite–centuries of reverse racism, most especially against white males most of them sans a single slave owner in their family tree?”

        What reverse racism? Providing compensatory benefits to Blacks to ATTEMPT to undo some of the disparity wrought by centuries of discrimination and injustice is “reverse racism?” As a consequence of this slavery and discrimination, Blacks start out with so many strikes against them that they will NEVER be fully integrated into our society unless they receive special consideration in regards to educational opportunities and hiring practices. To simply remove legal discrimination without regard to their history and status is to doom them to remain a perpetual underclass. You think that proactive measures to ensure that 20% of the population is proportionally represented throughout our society is racist? If as a result of past social practices Blacks (and other minorities) are deemed “unqualified” for higher level jobs, or lack the money for education, then society has an obligation to make them qualified and fund the education necessary to enable them to compete. If that takes quotas and other assistance, so be it. In view of the history and under the circumstances, I have no sympathy with whites who cry reverse discrimination. And to refer to this as racism is frankly offensive.

      • German Lefty
        February 23, 2014, 12:46 pm

        @ Keith

        Correcting the consequences of past injustice requires ongoing, proactive measures to deal with those consequences.

        Yes, proactive measures to ensure EQUAL treatment, NOT the continuation of SPECIAL treatment (in a different form).
        You don’t undo worse treatment of blacks by preferiential treatment of blacks. Likewise, you don’t undo anti-Semitism (Nazism) by philo-Semitism (Zionism). Two wrongs don’t make a right. You can’t balance discrimination with reverse discrimination. The solution to discrimination is equal treatment.
        When Zionism is over, I won’t endorse affirmative action for Palestinians either. Or would you think that it’s fair to give Palestinians preferential treatment for 65+ years in order to “counterbalance” the 65+ years of preferential treatment of Israeli Jews? Tit for tat. An eye for an eye. That’s not justice. That’s vengeance. Vengeance on innocent successor generations.

        The notion that the consequences of centuries of slavery and discrimination can be overcome in a few decades is ludicrous.

        Don’t put words into my mouth. I have never made such a claim.

        What would you imagine would be required to “make American Blacks whole” to rectify the consequences of centuries of slavery?

        Reparations payments right after the end of slavery/segregation by the actual white perpetrators. Abolition of racial discrimination and promotion of equal treatment.

        The notion that America has turned into some sort of post-racial society is the convenient rationalization of privileged white people

        Again, you put words into my mouth. I have never claimed that US society is post-racial. It’s affirmative action (i.e. reverse racial discrimination) that prevents the development of a post-racial society. Likewise, relations between Jews and non-Jews (in Germany and elsewhere) won’t normalise as long as Zionism exists. Any kind of racial discrimination is unjust and divisive, not unifying.

      • eljay
        February 23, 2014, 7:26 pm

        Yes, proactive measures to ensure EQUAL treatment, NOT the continuation of SPECIAL treatment (in a different form).
        You don’t undo worse treatment of blacks by preferiential treatment of blacks. Likewise, you don’t undo anti-Semitism (Nazism) by philo-Semitism (Zionism). Two wrongs don’t make a right. You can’t balance discrimination with reverse discrimination. The solution to discrimination is equal treatment.
        When Zionism is over, I won’t endorse affirmative action for Palestinians either.

        Well said.

      • Keith
        February 23, 2014, 7:57 pm

        GERMAN LEFTY- “Yes, proactive measures to ensure EQUAL treatment, NOT the continuation of SPECIAL treatment (in a different form).

        What special treatment? How are they to receive equal treatment if the past history has deprived them of the necessary wherewithal to compete? You think that efforts to enable 20% of the population to proportionally partake of the benefits of a society constructed on the backs of Black slaves are reverse discrimination? You think that poor Black kids and middle class white kids compete on an even playing field? As for your ridiculous philo-Semitic example, you think having the Ivy Leagues set aside a 2% enrollment quota for Jews would be philo-Semitic?

        Keith said: “The notion that the consequences of centuries of slavery and discrimination can be overcome in a few decades is ludicrous.”

        German Lefty responded: “Don’t put words into my mouth. I have never made such a claim.”

        I was responding to your comment in general terms which encompass standing arguments. Jewish civil rights groups, for example, initially supported affirmative action when it benefited Jews, however, once they had achieved their objectives they did an about face and opposed what they now claimed was reverse discrimination. Does your comment reflect your opinion that efforts to overcome the consequences of centuries of slavery and discrimination will take a long time?

        Keith said: “The notion that America has turned into some sort of post-racial society is the convenient rationalization of privileged white people”

        German Lefty replied: “Again, you put words into my mouth. I have never claimed that US society is post-racial.”

        Once again, I am commenting in broad terms and was, in fact, referring to comments which Phil has made in the past about a post-racial society, a common liberal fantasy.

        German Lefty says: “It’s affirmative action (i.e. reverse racial discrimination) that prevents the development of a post-racial society.”

        So you think that Blacks and other minorities would have been better off without affirmative action? I find this type of thinking absolutely incredible. Blacks are at the bottom of the heap because we did too much for them! Jeez.

        You keep referring to Jews in Germany and elsewhere being hurt by reverse discrimination. Apparently you equate highly privileged Jews receiving unjustified favoritism with poor Blacks trying to catch up and integrate into a society which has historically impoverished them in the full sense of the term. There is no equivalency between Jews who are over represented in the Ivy Leagues and the corridors of wealth and power and Blacks who are under represented in these areas. Blacks are, however, over represented in our prison system, one area where they do receive special treatment.

        Now one can believe that our society is unjust, with obvious examples of unfair distribution of wealth, power and opportunity, and that therefore we should take steps to change society to more equitably distribute the fruits of current labors and correct for past injustice. Or one can believe that wealth and power justify themselves, that fat-cats are fat because they are either inherently superior or have acquired superior qualifications open to all, and that those who are poor and uneducated are inherently stupid and/or lazy, the products of a failed ethnic culture, therefore, there is nothing that can or should be done, they deserve their fate. Now, the royalty of old and the elite of now firmly believe the latter. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, however, your previous comments seem to indicate a lack of social responsibility. We are all of us to a large degree a product of our circumstances, something you might care to reflect upon.

      • Citizen
        February 24, 2014, 7:45 am

        @ Keith (no reply button)

        “What reverse racism?”

        Glad you asked. Let’s start with our better grade universities and colleges, to show just how much white privilege favors America’s white poor, working class, lower middle class and rural/farm kids: http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_diversity_punishes_asians.html

        Read it and get a glimpse of Keith’s vision of affirmative action justice.

      • LeaNder
        February 24, 2014, 9:13 am

        Keith, don’t expect German Lefty to be able to understand what political forces she aligns with in the US context, or over here for that matter. Her supporter citizen seems to fear that white male power is under attack in the US for longer now. … At least his fear of white male endangerment in the US connects him to aspects of nutcase David Yerushalmi, who argued before he joined the larger Islamophobic camp and started with warfare against “jihad forces” in the US, that America was founded by Judeo-Christian European settlers “who were predominantly white”, suggesting that a change in this context threatens to destroy “American white culture”. When DY’s statements created a public outcry they disappeared with most of S.A.N.E (Society of American National Existence) behind a pay wall.

        Post 911 I read Horowitz’ Front Page Mag for a while, and looked into his political genesis and his books, like Hating Whitey and others, which contains a dubious black on white rape argument. Here is is most recent: Black Skin Privilege and the American Dream Horowitz of course is also a hawkish defender of Israel and pro-Israel inspired foreign policy.

        The wide use of the term “race baiter” drew my attention a while back. Eric Deggans: Race Baiter: How the Media Wields Dangerous Words to Divide a Nation is a small but good book triggered by a debate with Fox’ Hannity, if I remember correctly. With a basically positive outlook.

        Concerning your prison statistics, I found it pretty amusing that research showed that arrest numbers went actually down when only blacks were targeted for drugs in stop and frisk fashion. I assume it is the pretty much the same if the target changes to Muslim or Arabs. But apparently it does not stop the custom. Just as black crime keeps the racial stereotypes alive. Which suggests to me its not enough or maybe not so easy to simply stop discrimination, as GF suggests.

        Stereotypes: Black College Student Arrested For Buying A Designer Belt, Barneys & NYPD Slapped With Lawsuit (UPDATE) Race studies and the long history of stereotypes is one of my favorite subjects, admittedly.

        Interestingly she simply identifies philo-Semitism with Zionism.

        Yes, proactive measures to ensure EQUAL treatment, NOT the continuation of SPECIAL treatment (in a different form).
        You don’t undo worse treatment of blacks by preferiential treatment of blacks. Likewise, you don’t undo anti-Semitism (Nazism) by philo-Semitism (Zionism). Two wrongs don’t make a right. …

        This drew my attention. Can’t I be a philosemite that does not support Israeli policies but is still interested in Jewish culture and history?

        But what exactly does it mean when people here support some type of cleaned fashion of the above mentioned extremists, I wonder occasionally.

      • LeaNder
        February 24, 2014, 9:30 am

        My mistake, I didn’t mean race studies but studies on the topic of racism, although lately I looked into the genesis of the race construct and use by the Nazis too, or their struggle Zionism, by the way. In sources, I so far tried to avoid.

      • German Lefty
        February 24, 2014, 3:31 pm

        @ Keith (no reply button)

        You think that efforts to enable 20% of the population to proportionally partake of the benefits of a society constructed on the backs of Black slaves are reverse discrimination?
        No, not necessarily. As I said, it depends on the kind of efforts. If these efforts consist of race-neutral policies, then I totally approve of them. However, if these efforts include race-based discrimination, e.g. racial quotas, then I reject them.

        You think that poor Black kids and middle class white kids compete on an even playing field?
        Counterquestion: How are poor white kids supposed to compete with middle-class black kids, who additionally benefit from affirmative action? It’s a fact that most poor people in the USA are white. Also, there are numerous wealthy blacks. So, equating blacks with poverty and whites with wealth is a totally inaccurate simplification. Stereotyping much?! The USA doesn’t only consist of “poor blacks” and “wealthy whites”. US society is much more diverse than you want to have us believe.
        “Inequality of income and wealth has risen in America since the 1970s. […] In modern meritocratic societies, success still depends on individual effort. […] High-status social groups in America are astonishingly diverse. There are representatives from nearly every major religious and ethnic group in the world – except for the group that led to the argument for culture as the foundation of social success: white European Protestants. Muslims are low-status in much of India and Europe, but Iranian Muslims are among the most elite of all groups in America.”
        http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/21/your-fate-thank-your-ancestors/
        Inequality of income and wealth must not be reduced to a racial issue. Income and wealth are distributed very unequally WITHIN a racial group, too. Poor kids (of any race) and middle-class kids (of any race) WOULD compete on an even playing field if private schools were abolished and all public schools were equally well-funded. That’s what should be done. All poor kids need state aid, not just those who happen to be black. If the state only supports blacks and not whites, then poor whites rightly feel forsaken by the state. Then, they get angry and probably take their anger out on the blacks, who are the beneficiaries of affirmative action. What I am trying to say is that affirmative action for blacks leads to MORE societal racism against blacks. So, such a policy is not just bad for (poor) whites but also for blacks.

        As for your ridiculous philo-Semitic example, you think having the Ivy Leagues set aside a 2% enrollment quota for Jews would be philo-Semitic?
        Again, you put words into my mouth. I was only talking about philo-Semitism in form of Zionism.
        Racial quotas are racist in any case. Choosing someone because of their race is as wrong as rejecting someone because of their race. People must be seen as individuals and not be reduced to members of a racial group.

        Does your comment reflect your opinion that efforts to overcome the consequences of centuries of slavery and discrimination will take a long time?
        Of course, overcoming the consequences of centuries of slavery and discrimination will take a long time. However, reverse racial discrimination is the wrong way to go. The solution to racial discrimination are race-neutral policies.

        So you think that Blacks and other minorities would have been better off without affirmative action?
        You talk about blacks as if they were a homogeneous group. However, blacks are individuals. Some are much better off than others. It’s the same with whites.
        I don’t know if blacks (all in all) would be better off without affirmative action, but that’s not the point. The problem is that affirmative action for blacks is racial discrimination and therefore unconstitutional. It would be much more just and efficient to support POOR people (regardless of their race) instead of BLACK people (regardless of their WEALTH).

        Blacks are at the bottom of the heap
        So, you consider the Oval Office the bottom of the heap? Interesting. I tell you who really is at the bottom of the heap – all the innocent Muslims who are murdered by the drones that are sent by the guy in the Oval Office. As citizens of a Western country, African Americans are way more privileged than most people on the planet. So, please, keep a sense of proportion.

        Apparently you equate highly privileged Jews receiving unjustified favoritism with poor Blacks trying to catch up and integrate into a society which has historically impoverished them in the full sense of the term.
        Favouring people of a certain race is ALWAYS unjustified, regardless of the circumstances. Racial discrimination is unconstitutional. All people must be treated equally. Race must not be taken into account.

      • Keith
        February 25, 2014, 7:16 pm

        CITIZEN- “Read it and get a glimpse of Keith’s vision of affirmative action justice.”

        That’s right, create a social environment where one group is virtually guaranteed to have lower test scores, then use these test scores as a basis for excluding the disadvantaged group from obtaining the means to advance, in effect, holding THEM responsible for the environment they found themselves trapped in. Further, that attempts to overcome this environment, and the deplorable history of slavery and racism, are racist discrimination favoring “less qualified” applicants based upon these test scores. You should be aware that “Minding the Campus” is run by the “Manhattan Institute,” a right-wing think tank financed by the likes of the Koch brothers, the Olin and Scaife foundations, and previously, the tobacco industry, all of whom appreciative of their “scholarship.” That you can easily locate studies that support right-wing policies is hardly surprising, particularly since the Jews did an about face on this very issue. That you seem to take this crap seriously is another matter.

      • Keith
        February 25, 2014, 7:18 pm

        GERMAN LEFTY- “So, you consider the Oval Office the bottom of the heap?”

        So you consider Barack Obama to be reflective of the average Black American? What nonsense! As for the situation of American Blacks in relationship to the downtrodden of the Third World, I guess you think that they should be grateful that they are not forced to live on $2 per day under a US supported dictator. You seem to lack any semblance of empathy for those less fortunate than you. As for that Wall Street lawyer in the White House, here are some Black opinions on just how much good that has done for US Blacks:

        The Obama Legacy. (Bruce Dixon)
        http://blackagendareport.com/content/obama-legacy-pt-1-many-top-ten-things-black-america-will-have-show-8-years-president-obama

        The White House Un-Reality Show. (Glen Ford)
        http://blackagendareport.com/content/white-house-un-reality-show

        The Absurdity of Post Racial Theory in Racist America. (Danny Haiphong)
        http://blackagendareport.com/content/absurdity-post-racial-theory-racist-america

  19. Marco
    February 21, 2014, 1:43 pm

    “The Jewish community is rebranding Jewish culture, from the brave civilization that gave us the greatest minds of the last 100 years, Einstein, Marx and Freud, as my mother used to brag to me, to a community that’s scared of Israel’s shadow. ”

    Prideful statements like this are part of the reason why Zionism retains its allure.

    If someone grows up believing in their heart of hearts that their culture is of a higher intellectual caliber than all others then it’s not such a great leap to then support the creation of a homeland for your people. For that matter, you could even justify Zionism purely in terms of tikkun olam on this basis – the most intellectual people can help repair the world from their homeland in Israel.

    In fact, part of the reason why non-Jews support Israel is because they implicitly accept such boasts about Jewish excellence and conclude that such an exemplary race therefore deserves Palestine more than the Palestinians.

    • seafoid
      February 21, 2014, 4:18 pm

      “they implicitly accept such boasts about Jewish excellence”

      Carly Fiorina was a business genius who thought she could run California.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_Fiorina

      Business success and network presence are very different skills compared to political touch. Jews are very successful compared to other groups but they have zero political nous. If they had Israel would be viable today.

      It goes back to the Alawi problem.

      http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/09/storm-over-syria/

      “The Alawis of Syria, who make up only 12 percent of its population, split from the main branch of Shiism more than a thousand years ago. Before the twentieth century they were usually referred to as Nusayris, after their eponymous founder Ibn Nusayr, who lived in Iraq during the ninth century. Taking refuge in the mountains above the port of Latakia, on the coastal strip between modern Lebanon and Turkey, they evolved a highly secretive syncretistic theology containing an amalgam of Neoplatonic, Gnostic, Christian, Muslim, and Zoroastrian elements. Their leading theologian, Abdullah al-Khasibi, who died in 957, proclaimed the divinity of Ali, the Prophet Muhammad’s cousin and son-in-law, whom other Shiites revere but do not worship. Like many Shiites influenced by ancient Gnostic teachings that predate Islam, they believe that the way to salvation and knowledge lies through a succession of divine emanations. Acknowledging a line of prophets or avatars beginning with Adam and culminating in Christ and Muhammad, they include several figures from classical antiquity in their list, such as Socrates, Plato, Galen, and some of the pre-Islamic Persian masters.
      Nusayrism could be described as a folk religion that absorbed many of the spiritual and intellectual currents of late antiquity and early Islam, packaged into a body of teachings that placed its followers beyond the boundaries of orthodoxy. Mainstream Muslims, both Sunni and Shia, regarded them as ghulta, “exaggerators.” Like other sectarian groups they protected their tradition by a strategy known as taqiyya—the right to hide one’s true beliefs from outsiders in order to avoid persecution. Taqiyya makes a perfect qualification for membership in the mukhabarat—the ubiquitous intelligence/security apparatus that has dominated Syria’s government for more than four decades.
      Secrecy was also observed by means of a complex system of initiation, in which insiders recognized each other by using special phrases or passwords and neophytes underwent a form of spiritual marriage with the naqibs, or spiritual guides.
      It does not take much imagination to see how such beliefs, programmed into the community’s values for more than a millennium, and reinforced by customs such as endogamous marriage according to which the children of unions between Nusayris and non-Nusayris cannot be initiated into the sect—create very strong notions of apartness and disdain for the “Other.”

      Either we are all sacred or nobody is

      • MRW
        February 21, 2014, 7:48 pm

        Interesting post, seafoid. I didn’t know that about the Alawi. And it’s been years since I heard anyone use that great word, “nous.”

      • American
        February 22, 2014, 9:44 am

        ”Jews are very successful compared to other groups but they have zero political nous. If they had Israel would be viable today”..seafood

        I dont think its lack of political nous, although they definitely do lack any….its their ideology…..’exceptionalism, supremist race/ ethnic/religion…….along with the lack of ethics/morality inspired by Jewish victimhood—that anything they do to others, any crimes they commit, are allowable because the others are enemies.
        Israel will never be viable under this ideology—even if they had the political skills.
        The only way I’ve seen for ideologies like this to survive is in ghettos or commune type communities where they have no real ‘interactions’
        or impact on others outside their group–where they dont act out their attitude toward others and provoke them to destroy their group.

      • seafoid
        February 22, 2014, 10:52 am

        Look at Ukraine to see where the Ashkenazi touch came from…

        http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.575732

      • MRW
        February 22, 2014, 11:43 am

        seafoid,

        According to this, it’s more than just a touch, it’s active involvement. “Ukraine Protests: Israeli Ex-Officer ‘Leads Militant Group'”
        http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-protests-israeli-ex-officer-leads-militant-group-1436865

      • American
        February 22, 2014, 12:42 pm

        @ seafoid

        Yea I’ve been watching that…what a mess……and another one the US and everyone else should keep its mouth out of.

      • puppies
        February 22, 2014, 1:32 pm

        From your link: The treacherous hacks are calling in foreign intervention:
        “the Jewish community asks Israel for assistance with the security of the community…”
        “head of the umbrella organization of Ukraine’s Jews described the situation in Kiev as dire, telling Maariv “We contacted Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman requesting he assist us with securing the community.””

        And the foreign power already intervened in the affairs of the Ukraine as it routinely does everywhere:
        “the Israeli embassy told members of the Jewish community to avoid leaving their homes.”

        So if they continue and insist they may well get just what they ask for and can yell “Antisemitism”, eagerly anticipated:
        …”I don’t want to tempt fate,” he added, “but there are constant warnings concerning intentions to attack Jewish institutions.”

      • German Lefty
        February 23, 2014, 4:38 pm

        head of the umbrella organization of Ukraine’s Jews described the situation in Kiev as dire

        Ukrainian-born German-Jewish politician Marina Weisband is currently in Ukraine and was interviewed by DER SPIEGEL. Among other things, she was asked if it’s true that Ukrainian Jews are in danger. She replied:
        “That was scaremongering steered by the Kremlin. Of course, the Jews here are worried, just like all other Ukrainians. But I talked with a rabbi today who triumphantly told me that it is very good what happens here. Almost his entire community is on the Maidan. I feel safe here, too.”
        http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/interview-mit-marina-weisband-auf-dem-maidan-viele-sind-frustriert-a-955163.html

      • Walid
        February 24, 2014, 1:21 am

        “The Jewish Agency will extend immediate emergency assistance to the Jewish community of Ukraine and will help secure Jewish institutions in the country, chairman Natan Sharansky said on Saturday night.” (Haaretz and Maariv yesterday)

        BHL was there again in Maidan stirring up shit by saying the European Union will not be complete until Ukraine joins it. All week he was making noises about how Europe should be boycotting the games at Sochi.

      • Talkback
        February 22, 2014, 3:28 pm

        I dont think its lack of political nous, although they definitely do lack any….its their ideology…..’exceptionalism, supremist race/ ethnic/religion…….along with the lack of ethics/morality inspired by Jewish victimhood—that anything they do to others, any crimes they commit, are allowable because the others are enemies.

        A nice example of antisemitic logorrhea.

      • Citizen
        February 22, 2014, 4:11 pm

        Logorrhea, Is it anti-semitic? It’s hard to nail down down a bipolar rhetorical word spasm, isn’t it? Nous is practical intelligence. Doesn’t heavy Jewish involvement in US civil rights movement fit that bill, as in “Is it good for the Jews?” If you combine the two, what do you get in this context? The most powerful paint brush in the world? Applied to both Jewish history (as distinguished from World history) and anybody who objects to a heavily disproportionate influence in government policy, domestic and foreign? Isn’t AIPAC an example of the fusion of those two policies? Did we not just have an article on Truman on MW? So, given, present day Israel, and the US enmeshment with that state, what’s good for the Jews now? If we are talking about anything else here, pray tell, what is it?

      • American
        February 22, 2014, 4:31 pm

        Talkback says:
        February 22, 2014 at 3:28 pm

        A nice example of antisemitic logorrhea
        >>>>

        Yes…so tiring to have be so through and descriptive but unfortunately
        necessary to encourage the anal retentive to let go of their shit.

      • puppies
        February 22, 2014, 5:13 pm

        The racist thing was the post he was replying to, in which some collective “Jewish nous” was assumed.

        Relax. “Antisemitism” is not separate from racism as generally (non-US) defined, i.e. discrimination against a group of people due to an accident of birth. In this case, recent ancestry. Not religion, which is not an accident of birth. Better to use these clear terms than nonsense categories designed by the Zionists to be confusing.

      • American
        February 22, 2014, 8:47 pm

        @ puppies

        It should have been obvious to him that I was talking about zionist Israel –not Jewish nous—– by how I described the “ideology” of zionism that wouldnt survive forever even with political skills.

      • seafoid
        February 22, 2014, 4:39 pm

        Maybe in the US domestic sphere Jewish influence made a difference (on the road to plutocracy) but el Gordo for Jewish power is Israel and I can’t see anything to recommend the strategies pursued.

        Buying Congress, thuggery, the vetoes, managing the news, hogging the agenda, the whole AIPAC genuflection circus, promotion of right wing clowns such as the Dersh , always taking the easy option. Salute Sharon and destroy Meretz. Plus the body count.
        No long term vision. No sense of care for the people who actually live in Israel. Nothing sustainable. Might as right, wrong.

        I think there’s a big debate that Jews need to have about how the leadership worked over the last 60 years. Accountability – no sign of it anywhere. Why can other minorities manage better ?

      • American
        February 22, 2014, 10:57 pm

        Read this.

        ”Russian-born Israelis chase capitalist dreams to Moscow”
        Russians who immigrated to Israel are increasingly moving to Moscow in search of opportunity, stability – and politer waiters

        http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.575660

        The bright people are leaving for both more open ‘ societies ‘ and more open economic opportunities. ..Israel is too suffocating for those whose lives arent dedicated to just the zionist project. I am not surprised.

      • JennieS
        February 23, 2014, 4:54 am

        “Either we are all sacred or nobody is”

        Ain’t that the truth seafoid.

      • Walid
        February 23, 2014, 8:14 am

        Taqiyya, Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, Christianity and the Zoroastrian elements as well as reincarnation are also traits of another Shia ultra-secretive offshoot, the Druze that took root with the Fatimid Caliph of Egypt al-Hakim that he believed himself to be the messiah. around the year 1020; Darazzi, his Vizier gave his name to the followers that became the Druze and that subsequently also refused to allow any new converts into the group. The term “Nusayris” was changed during the French Mandate of 1920 to Alawis, meaning “followers of Ali” to bring them closer to other Shias.

      • seafoid
        February 23, 2014, 8:34 am

        Walid

        If the sum of all Muslims adds up to 1 and Sunnis are equal to x then Shiism adds up to 1-x.
        And it covers everything.

        I think the interesting thing about the alawis is that their belief system shows there is no such thing as purity- you just take your inputs from what went before and you roll with them. Christianity too. It was the same with Judaism…took liberally from the past and then started iterating.

        They really need to update their memes now because that Talmud stuff is not fit for the 21st century and running a state.

        Walid Junbalat should advise them on how to survive in the jungle. You leave your pride at the door and you play smart. It is all about continuity.

      • Walid
        February 23, 2014, 2:01 pm

        “there is no such thing as purity- you just take your inputs from what went before and you roll with them.”

        Same for the Druze that keep getting other chances with reincarnation until they get it right. For the Alawis, this means earning a place among the stars in the sky, where they once lived as bodies of light among the stars, but because of their failure to recognize Ali when he appeared to them, they were relegated to live on earth in human bodies. That’s why they believe in metempsychosis as their opportunity to get back into God’s good graces and back among the stars. The only hangup with this concept is that option is open for men only, as they believe that women are devoid of reasoning souls.

        Shia esoterism somewhat resemble the mysteries of Catholicism and to a certain point those of Judaism as in their commemoration of the 10 days of Ashura that has tones of Yom Kippur, which served as the Muslim’s original inspiration for the feast back in the days when they prayed 3 times a day facing Jerusalem.

    • puppies
      February 21, 2014, 5:47 pm

      Not only that, but what the hell is “Jewish”, as per the mother’s bragging, in guys like Marx or Einstein? It seems like this kind of racist statements cannot be let pass unopposed. Time to challenge those tribal mothers.

      • RoHa
        February 22, 2014, 1:36 am

        “The Jewish community is rebranding Jewish culture, from the brave civilization that gave us the greatest minds of the last 100 years, Einstein, Marx”

        Einstein and Marx were products of Western European civilization, not some imaginary Jewish civilization. The Jewish culture of their background (and which was, perhaps, contributory to their intellectual eminence) was part of Western European civilization. I have noted before, though, that the Jews who are lauded as “the greatest minds” seem not to be very Jewish at all.

        “and Freud”

        Great mind? Him?

      • goldmarx
        February 22, 2014, 9:28 am

        RoHa: If the Jewish culture of their background is real, then that is not an imaginary Jewish civilization, but a real one that formed a subset of European civilization. Not just Western Europe, but Eastern and Central as well.

      • puppies
        February 22, 2014, 10:14 am

        @goldmark – There is nothing “Jewish” in secular urban European culture and civilization. We’re not talking about Ostjiddisch Staedtls here.

      • puppies
        February 22, 2014, 10:33 am

        @Goldmark
        PS. and note that any secular Yiddish culture is Yiddish. Not “Jewish”.

      • yonah fredman
        February 22, 2014, 12:37 pm

        Firstly I think that Freud was a creative genius. I cannot testify as to his science, but his contribution to Western culture has been immense.

        As far as the question: was it Freud’s Jewishness or the Yiddish culture that spawned him or was it Western civilization? Obviously a number of factors were in play- modernity might have been accentuated or hyped up by the emergence of the book oriented culture of Eastern European Jewry released from the limits of the Talmud and shtetl and loosed upon the libraries and knowledge of Vienna and the West. To deny the book culture that spawned Freud would be as silly as denying the classics and science that he studied. In Freud’s particular case, the rejection that he suffered at the hands of the establishment involved some kind of interplay of the Jew as pariah, the Jew as outcast, the Jew as outsider, the Jew as critic, the Jew as disembodied and so the whole shebang that culminated (unfortunately) in the Nazis’ conception of the Jew and the physical elimination of the Jew from (the planet and thus from) the forefront of intellectual central European society, was also interacting both in Freud’s life and the reaction to his science or pseudo-science. So any attempt to do justice to the life and work of Freud, and somehow divorce him from his Jewish roots would be as silly as divorcing him from his Vienna milieu or from the turn of the century.

      • RoHa
        February 22, 2014, 8:38 pm

        “If the Jewish culture of their background is real, then that is not an imaginary Jewish civilization, but a real one that formed a subset of European civilization.”

        A culture which is part of a civilization is not a civilization in itself.

        “Not just Western Europe, but Eastern and Central as well.”

        Sorry, my terminology is a bit confusing here. I include all Europe, the Americas, and Australasia in the term “Western European civilization”. Perhaps I should just say “Western civilization”.

      • puppies
        February 22, 2014, 10:28 am

        @RoHa -[“and Freud” – Great mind? Him?]

        Absolutely. The greatest. Made the humble profession of listener-to-your-spleen into a superbly money-making concern with no investment or scientific proof needed. Lifelong “Analysis”, no Medicare.

      • American
        February 22, 2014, 1:14 pm

        fredman says:
        February 22, 2014 at 12:37 pm

        Firstly I think that Freud was a creative genius.”>>>

        Ugh!…maybe I’m too ‘normal’ but from what I’ve read on Freud he was a freaky sex pervert and dark and dark, dark…I think he was projecting his own weirdness in his theories.

      • Talkback
        February 22, 2014, 3:29 pm

        @ puppies

        Hear! Hear!

      • RoHa
        February 22, 2014, 8:43 pm

        @ Yonah

        “Firstly I think that Freud was a creative genius. I cannot testify as to his science, but his contribution to Western culture has been immense.”

        Aside from junk science*, what did he contribute?

        “As far as the question: was it Freud’s Jewishness or the Yiddish culture that spawned him or was it Western civilization? ”

        Since he peddled junk, I don’t care.

        (*People do keep falling for that, don’t they?)

      • yonah fredman
        February 23, 2014, 3:41 am

        RoHa- and other denigraters of Ziggy the great. One cannot imagine western culture without these words- id, libido, unconscious, sublimation. Dreams have always been an important part of human culture. Freud’s take on dreams is significant. When skyscrapers are denigrated or celebrated as manifestations of male boasting, whose name do you think of? Ziggy. I think you people are ideologues and therefore cannot recognize reality that stares you in the face. You have a blind spot about what the culture of the last 114 years has included. Freud is a major star in the development of the 20th century. Or in the decadence of the 20th century. Your denial says more about you than it says about Freud.

      • irishmoses
        February 23, 2014, 7:57 am

        I’m with you on this one yonah, Freud had a huge impact. He revealed the existence and importance of the subconscious, and how it lurks in the shadows of every rational thought and expression. Flawed, nitpickable? Absolutely. But, without question, one of the most influential thinkers of the 20th century. To deny his impact is to put yourself in the category of witch hunters. Common guys, we’re talking about Freud.

      • puppies
        February 23, 2014, 5:13 am

        @Friedman (no Reply button) – Figures perfectly. Zionist diehard predictably disgracing himself in yet another distasteful public exhibition of quichottesque nonsense to defend most notable mountebank. Contributed to our culture, eh? So did Landru… sorry, goy. Retry: So did Meyer Lansky.

      • G. Seauton
        February 22, 2014, 4:07 pm

        “Jewish culture … the brave civilization that gave us the greatest minds of the last 100 years, Einstein, Marx and Freud, as my mother used to brag to me … ”

        Of course, this is an old cliche and an outdated one at that. (Marx died in 1883.) The very simple-mindedness of this cliche (THE greatest minds, “Einstein, Marx and Freud”) gives the lie to idea that this culture is or was intellectually superior, another cherished myth. Accepting for the moment that Einstein was one of the greatest minds of the 20th century (and leaving aside the fact that the mathematical underpinnings of the theory of relativity came from Minkowski — another of the greatest minds of the 20th century? — not Einstein), can we really call Freud and Marx two of the three greatest minds of the last 131 years (to update the figure)?

        What about Alan Turing? Max Plank? Crick and Watson? Pierre and Marie Curie? Enrico Fermi? Grothendieck (who is Jewish)? Robert Goddard? Tukey? Surely, all of these people were greater minds than Marx and Freud. What people mean when they refer to Marx and Freud as among the greatest minds of “the last hundred years” is that their influence was among the greatest. But Marx’s influence was enormously negative, and in retrospect, it seems Freud’s influence wasn’t all positive either. In any case, many of his ideas are now discredited.

        And besides, the cliche used to be “the greatest minds of the last hundred years, Einstein, Marx, Freud, and Darwin” — at least admitting that not all of the greatest minds were those of Jews.

      • G. Seauton
        February 22, 2014, 4:26 pm

        Correction: Max Planck

      • gamal
        February 22, 2014, 10:54 pm

        “Minkowski — another of the greatest minds of the 20th century?” Lithuanian-German,

        Minkowski maintained that Einstein was a poor mathematician, for, I surely am not qualified to hold an opinion, for very interesting reasons a good deal of them to do with the emerging structure of knowledge. Unsure of his authority in terms of “physical things” (Physics, which he acknowledged he knew little of) he got his retaliation in first, pure maths/theoretical science has its politics. But the fact that any one falls for the one genius who transformed all myth ignores the huge social operation that is, say, theoretical physics and maths, in terms of the “Einstein” of Physics history he is in fact a legion, a composite of all who contributed to the creation of this system: Lorentz, Marcel Grossmann, Walter Ritz, Gustav Herglotz, Emil Weichert, Max Born, Adolf Hurwitz, Leo Koningsberger, its a long long list some may be Jewish they were all relatively good at modern mathematics thats what seems to link them and central European intellectual culture and universities, in the end its all yahweh’s work so perhaps my premises are wrong. Is one automatically Jewish above a certain IQ score, even the Afrikaners had honorary White status, I think it could be a way to reationalize things.

        the title of Minkowski’s work ““Die Grundgleichungen fur die elec- tromagnetischen Vorgange in bewegten Korpern,” (umlauts circumcised out of piety) I know no German but especially Korpern, uttered soto voce on the warm tropical evenings has become a darkly Freudian pleasure.

      • Citizen
        February 23, 2014, 5:17 am

        @ yonah freeman (no rely button)
        Freud did give us the poetic metaphor of Id, Ego, Superego. And he did give us his own writings as a clear demonstration of his concept of personal projections and the dated conclusions he drew from them. My, just look at what L Ron Hubbard borrowed from him, disguised with a newer metaphor, the computer.

      • German Lefty
        February 22, 2014, 6:24 am

        I agree with puppies and RoHa.

      • Citizen
        February 22, 2014, 7:32 am

        @ German Lefty
        Me too. I also agree with your earlier comment here on this thread. And seafoid’s “Either we are all sacred or nobody is.”

      • MRW
        February 22, 2014, 12:04 pm

        Einstein one of the greatest minds for discovering the law of the photoelectric effect? He didn’t get a Nobel for e=mc2, because he didn’t discover or invent it. Check nobel.se

      • seafoid
        February 23, 2014, 4:17 am

        @ Citizen

        “Either we are all sacred or nobody is” is something I read in Native Peoples magazine, in an interview with Paul Fourhorns Tenoso

        I would love to meet him

        https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.499739160044329.118322.113256162025966&type=3

      • Citizen
        February 22, 2014, 4:19 pm

        As per Wikipedia: Psychological projection was conceptualized by Sigmund Freud (6 May 1856 – 23 September 1939) in the 1900s as a defense mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world. For example, a person who is rude may accuse other people of being rude.
        Although rooted in early developmental stages, and classed by George Eman Vaillant as an immature defence, the projection of one’s negative qualities onto others on a small scale is nevertheless a common process in everyday life.

      • RoHa
        February 23, 2014, 6:38 pm

        @yonah

        I’m not denying he was influential. I agree that terms and concepts from psychoanalysis are widely used and part of modern culture. But that is the junk I was referring to.
        Does spreading that make him a “great mind”?
        Did he contribute anything other than the junk?

    • ziusudra
      February 23, 2014, 6:13 am

      Greetings Marco,
      ….the Jewish community….. gave us the greatest minds of the last 100 yrs…..
      Did they come out of nothing? Euro. culture & mentality had nothing to do with it?
      The Jews in rural Poland & Russia were just as progressive as the German & , Austrian Jews? These German & Polish Jews have 62% German & Austrian DNA.
      Do the ancient cultures like Egypt, Babylonia, Persia,
      Greece, Rome or the merits of the Islamic blossom in Spain note Euro Jewry excellance?
      Yes there was only one great Einstein, but there was only one great Galileo, Newton, De Vinci, Michelangelo, etc.
      ziusudra
      PS Not all Italians can sing nor are all Jews scientists.

    • Stephen Shenfield
      February 23, 2014, 5:12 pm

      That is not the only possible extension of this line of thought. There are Jews who think that “great Jewish minds” have arisen through cultural inter-fertilization that can occur only in the diaspora: they cannot develop within the standardizing environment of a Jewish state. I remember a correspondence with a librarian working in a Jewish theological seminary who said he agreed with me, but as it turned out he hated Israel because he saw it as culturally mediocre and not out of sympathy with the Palestinians.

    • Citizen
      February 24, 2014, 9:36 am

      @ LeaNder

      So you know more than GL about how affirmative action in America works? How so? Where do you live? You didn’t address my link, so I offer it again as to who benefits and who loses under affirmative action as implemented in my country, America: “What reverse racism?”

      Glad you asked. Let’s start with our better grade universities and colleges, to show just how much white privilege favors America’s white poor, working class, lower middle class and rural/farm kids: link to mindingthecampus.com
      http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_diversity_punishes_asians.html

    • Citizen
      February 24, 2014, 9:44 am

      @ LeaNder
      (no reply button)

      @ LeaNder

      So you know more than GL about how affirmative action in America works? How so? Where do you live? You didn’t address my link, so I offer it again as to who benefits and who loses under affirmative action as implemented in my country, America: Let’s start with our better grade universities and colleges, to show just how much white privilege favors America’s white poor, working class, lower middle class and rural/farm kids: link to http://www.mindingthecampus.com

      BTW, under affirmative action as implemented over the years, black middle class benefits highly, mostly at expense of poor working class whites; as for most blacks, the other side of that coin is the blacks in prison.

    • Citizen
      February 24, 2014, 9:53 am

      @ LeaNder
      From the link I provided you:

      Distressing as many might consider this to be–since the same institutions that give no special consideration to poor white applicants boast about their commitment to “diversity” and give enormous admissions breaks to blacks, even to those from relatively affluent homes–Espenshade and Radford in their survey found the actual situation to be much more troubling. At the private institutions in their study whites from lower-class backgrounds incurred a huge admissions disadvantage not only in comparison to lower-class minority students, but compared to whites from middle-class and upper-middle-class backgrounds as well. The lower-class whites proved to be all-around losers. When equally matched for background factors (including SAT scores and high school GPAs), the better-off whites were more than three times as likely to be accepted as the poorest whites (.28 vs. .08 admissions probability). Having money in the family greatly improved a white applicant’s admissions chances, lack of money greatly reduced it. The opposite class trend was seen among non-whites, where the poorer the applicant the greater the probability of acceptance when all other factors are taken into account. Class-based affirmative action does exist within the three non-white ethno-racial groupings, but among the whites the groups advanced are those with money. – See more at: http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_diversity_punishes_asians.html#sthash.4pWn2UpZ.dpuf

  20. broadside
    February 21, 2014, 2:27 pm

    “It’s tragic, and embarrassing.”

    Correct.

    “The Jewish community is rebranding Jewish culture, from the brave civilization that gave us the greatest minds of the last 100 years, Einstein, Marx and Freud, as my mother used to brag to me, to a community that’s scared of Israel’s shadow.”

    Scared of Israel’s shadow… Sounds like a pulled punch to me. Scared of something, but not that.

  21. doug
    February 21, 2014, 2:29 pm

    Unfortunately, intellect is the servant of emotion. It’s not a loss of IQ but the directing of one’s intellect toward one’s goals. You can see the resultant distortions in some of the more creative interpretations of older UNSC resolutions.

  22. joer
    February 21, 2014, 2:55 pm

    I think you fail to make a distinction between the organized Jewish establishment and Jewish intellectuals….or more accurately, intellectuals who happen to be Jewish. Many in the Jewish establishment point to such giants as Einstein, Freud, Jesus, Spinoza, and others as examples of Jewish intellect…but all of these, as well as many others in the arts and academia were disowned by the Jewish establishment, were in conflict with the Jewish establishment, or at the very least could hardly be called active members of the Jewish community. Of course, after their dead and their accomplishments are embraced by the world, then they become retroactive Superjews. So if the sensibilities of rich donors influence the intellectual discussion in the Jewish community, it is nothing new…or unique to this particular group.

    • Philip Weiss
      February 21, 2014, 3:18 pm

      Thanks Joer, helpful

      • joer
        February 21, 2014, 6:12 pm

        Who knows Phil, maybe in a hundred years the Jewish establishment will claim you, and your work will be held up as an example of Jewish humanitarianism.

      • LeaNder
        February 22, 2014, 8:29 am

        joer, very good comment, I agree with Phil here.

        But I would have kept Jesus out. Mainly, I guess, since I don’t feel comfortable with using the term intellectual for him mainly due to time. Wasn’t intellectual coined during the late 19th century for figures like Victor Hugo in the context of the Dreyfus affair?

        Do we really call Plato or Socrates intellectuals? Or later Ibn Rushd/Averroes or Maimonides? I guess I wouldn’t.

    • Talkback
      February 22, 2014, 4:23 am

      … but all of these, as well as many others in the arts and academia were disowned by the Jewish establishment, were in conflict with the Jewish establishment, or at the very least could hardly be called active members of the Jewish community.

      So either “selfhaters” or at the very least “dead”.

    • yonah fredman
      February 22, 2014, 4:49 am

      joer- Your premise seems accurate, but your examples suck. Jesus, first of all. Let’s not get into Jesus, unless you insist, but certainly it was not as if Jesus chose science or philosophy over Judaism. He chose Isaiah over Leviticus. So let’s just skip him as an example.

      Spinoza was rejected by his community. Certainly a community of refugees (from persecution, as the Sephardic or Spanish Jewish emigre society in Holland was) might feel a little bit squeamish regarding someone knocking down the icons, idols of their host society, when their welcome in that host society was tenuous. The treatment of Spinoza is nothing to be proud of, but certainly the history of the moment should be included in any description regarding the relationship between Spinoza and the Jewish establishment.

      Einstein. Einstein endowed Hebrew University and although Ben Gurion’s attempt to appoint him as president of Israel was a charade, in what way was he disowned by the Jewish establishment? Never happened. Totally stupid example. (Co-opting Einstein as an unhesitant Zionist is in fact ahistorical, but stating that he was disowned by the Jewish establishment is totally baseless.)

      Freud’s relationship with all societies was shaky. His endorsements of Hebrew University (calling it our university) and his introduction to the Hebrew translation of Totem and Taboo do not paint someone as alienated from the Jewish society of his day as you would paint him.

      • goldmarx
        February 22, 2014, 9:32 am

        It needs to be pointed out that Freud was a charter member of the Vienna chapter of B’nai Brith and praised Herzl. A recent documentary on Herzl displayed a letter by Freud written to Herzl which bordered on hero-worship.

      • joer
        February 22, 2014, 12:50 pm

        yonah-
        Thank you for your reply to my comment. Now take a deep breath and go back and read what I wrote. I didn’t say that all Jewish intellectuals who made a large impact were crucified or excommunicated. I wrote that for most, the continuum of their association to the Jewish establishment generally ranged from minimal involvement to outright conflict. Certainly, if a quote here or a fundraising letter there can be dug up from a Freud or an Einstein, the main body of their work has nothing to do with Jewishness or the Jewish community, except for Jesus, whose interpretation of the Bible was at odds with the establishment…and look where it got him. I would also postulate that if a Freud of an Einstein was totally intellectually loyal to the establishment, their breakthroughs never would have happened. And after they die, the establishment claims them as great Jews.

      • yonah fredman
        February 23, 2014, 5:24 am

        joer- I probably should not take your comments about Jesus any more seriously than I take Sarah Silverman’s. But in case you think otherwise, let me know and I’ll show you that “except for Jesus, whose interpretation of the Bible was at odds with the establishment…and look where it got him.” can be interpreted as accepting the Christian interpretation of what happened to Jesus, i.e. that he was killed at the instigation of the rabbinical establishment, which is not the liberal Jewish interpretation, which is that he was killed because the quisling Herodians were not happy with messianic contenders. which has absolutely zero to do with his interpretation of the Bible. But til that time I will ignore your off the cuff reference as something worthy of glib off the cuff-ness.

      • Citizen
        February 23, 2014, 5:56 am

        @ yonah fredman
        How does the sub-story of Jesus going to the temple and upsetting the money-changer’s at their table fit into the liberal Jewish interpretation of Jesus’s interpretation of the spirit of Judaism?

      • yonah fredman
        February 23, 2014, 7:27 am

        citizen- Upsetting the money changers is indicative of Jesus’s purity, aka his inability to adjust to reality. Jesus imagined that Jerusalem was a city of purity. Man of pure heart brings dove of pure heart and sacrifices dove of pure heart and he goes away fulfilled (forgiven, closer to God). That the man would come to the temple with money in his hand and not a dove in his hand and thus would need to buy a dove. Jesus could not adjust to such a sacrilege, that the temple would involve not just pure hearts and sacrifices, but also the commerce and the nitty gritty of buying a dove. Jesus’s purity could not digest such indignities. That’s my interpretation. And it had as much to do with his crucifixion as his beatitudes, that is nothing (or little). He was crucified because his disciples were calling him Messiah. The tumult with the money changers is something that might make the local news after sports, or a desk appearance ticket offense. Calling yourself Messiah (or allowing your disciples to call you the king) why that can get you killed.

      • German Lefty
        February 23, 2014, 10:02 am

        @ yonah fredman
        Do you believe that Jesus actually existed?

      • LeaNder
        February 23, 2014, 11:31 am

        yonah, I guess my objection to adding Jesus to the list was really beyond my rationalization above, since I felt what it could trigger what it now did.

        Let’s not get into Jesus, unless you insist, but certainly it was not as if Jesus chose science or philosophy over Judaism. He chose Isaiah over Leviticus. So let’s just skip him as an example.

        Are you sure about that? He may well have been influenced by Isaiah or the larger prophetic tradition, but did he in fact ignore Leviticus? Obviously you studied that much more closely then I ever did, but I understand that it still suggests the one that offers the sacrifice kills it himself, at least if it is an animal. No? But that is not how things worked at this point in time anymore. Thus I would challenge he simply choose Isaiah over Leviticus. What about Daniel?

        Now this deserves to be quoted fully:

        and I’ll show you that “except for Jesus, whose interpretation of the Bible was at odds with the establishment…and look where it got him.” can be interpreted as accepting the Christian interpretation of what happened to Jesus, i.e. that he was killed at the instigation of the rabbinical establishment, which is not the liberal Jewish interpretation, which is that he was killed because the quisling Herodians were not happy with messianic contenders. which has absolutely zero to do with his interpretation of the Bible. But til that time I will ignore your off the cuff reference as something worthy of glib off the cuff-ness.

        But could we try to move one step beyond stereotypes. Meaning beyond suggesting, as you do here that joer in fact used an antisemitic stereotype? Because that position ultimately only leaves one solution: If our religion is basically antisemitic shouldn’t we better abolish it?

        But realistically speaking: Let’s leave out the traditional narratives for a while, but didn’t Caiaphas/Kuppai/Nekifi/Ha-Koph one way or another have to please the Roman masters to keep his religious–if I may, seriously no harm meant, but simply a loss for the right word–enterprise intact?

        I would in fact be highly interested in, sorry still no Hebrew, how the counterclaim (versus the antisemitic claim of the gospels) works. In other words can you direct me to a little more understanding of how the “Herodian quislings”, tale works. The Herodian quislings, or the ultimately non-Jewish or nonreligious outsiders. How could these secular forces pr the respective Roman representative deal with the fact that Jesus seems to have challenged the religious authorities?

      • joer
        February 23, 2014, 11:52 am

        yonah-
        If that is how you ignore someone’s comment, I wonder how you respond when you have something to say. When discussing the Christian narrative, it usually is stipulated that the New Testament is generally accurate-because it is the only version of the events described-no writings from Jesus-apparently he was illiterate-no records from the Romans-not even a tweet from the crucifiction. But within that context, it should be remembered that besides the Roman occupiers, everyone in the story is Jewish: the working people, the lepers, the prostitutes, the good guys, the bad guys….So it can’t really be called anti Jewish. The goyem really like this story, which speaks to the universality of the themes expressed…truth versus power, greed versus charity, etc., good guys being punished, need for foregiveness.

      • LeaNder
        February 23, 2014, 12:09 pm

        yonah, maybe I should have mentioned it, but what I have written was written in response to this basically or mainly-Or it was the trigger:

        Upsetting the money changers is indicative of Jesus’s purity, aka his inability to adjust to reality. Jesus imagined that Jerusalem was a city of purity. Man of pure heart brings dove of pure heart and sacrifices dove of pure heart and he goes away fulfilled (forgiven, closer to God).

        Which is a highly interesting imagery pure – impure / realistic – unrealistic and last but not least the dove.

        Now strictly I would agree with you. It felt in a way we may not be that far apart in this context, I in fact often wondered if Christian religion is not the ultimate basis for double standards, which by the way, I see everywhere in the 19 century with its hyped up religiousness.

        But it felt to me that your shift to ultimately blaming the “Herodian quislings” somewhat left this pure – impure / realistic – unrealistic or idealistic versus realistic pattern hovering over the above sentence behind.

        In other words, slightly provocatively– as joer’s addition may well have been–isn’t there a shift from blaming ultimately Jesus of being unrealistic (the dove, one of the cheapest available sacrifices) but then suddenly turning around at the point where it concerns Jewish authorities: They have to remain purest or pure.

        Not sure if I got that basic impression over.

      • yonah fredman
        February 24, 2014, 10:29 pm

        leander- Firstly, if your faith, or one’s faith in the mission of jesus or the divinity of Jesus is dependent on the description of who was responsible for getting him crucified, then I would call it a feeble faith. (The essence of the crucifixion, I thought, was to put an end to recriminations. Which is one proof of how the crucifixion was a failure, for it put no end to recriminations, but only led to a history of recriminations.)

        To depict the synoptic gospels as portraying a singular portrait of blame vis a vis the Pharisees, is to show an ignorance vis a vis the difference between Matthew, Mark and Luke. (We’ll leave John alone for now, for he depicted the enemies of Jesus as the Jews, a formulation designed to alienate any sensitive Jew who has not adopted Jesus as his savior.)

        I’m sorry if I am quoting wrong, but the essence that I recall is that the most friendly of the 3 synoptics- friendly to the Pharisees, who represent the rabbinic tradition that survived the destruction of jerusalem, was by far Luke. In Luke it says, some of the pharisees warned Jesus that the herodians were out to kill him. (This is consistent with the difference between the 3 synoptics vis a vis the scene of crucifixion when in Luke Jesus was willing to ensure those crucified on either side of him that they would be in heaven with the father together by the end of the day, whereas this is not included in Mark and Matthew. They were careful not to include anything positive about those crucified next to Jesus.)

        The Saducees represented the rich and the priests, whereas the Pharisees represented the common people and the rabbis. The Saducees were closer to the ruling elite than were the Pharisees. There is little question that Jesus came from the Pharisees although he viewed himself as rebelling against their emphasis on ritualism.

        I picked Isaiah versus Leviticus, not only because of the sacrifices in the book of Leviticus, but moreso its ritualism versus the soaring rhetoric of feeding the hungry found in Isaiah. There was no strict delineation in Jesus that said, Leviticus- bad, Isaiah- good. I was trying to summarize Jesus in a twitter 140 character fashion, inaccurately.

        It is true that all the characters in the story of Jesus were Jewish. Actually, not quite true. The Romans were not Jewish, Herod was strictly speaking not Jewish. Some of the Jews were collaborators and some were zealots and some just tolerated the occupation without rebelling or collaborating.

        Phil wrote something vis a vis Freud, Marx and Einstein and some genius named joer decided to include Jesus. Let us discuss Jesus another day.

  23. Shingo
    February 21, 2014, 3:17 pm

    Proving yet again that Zionism is anti intellectualism

    • Citizen
      February 23, 2014, 8:46 am

      @ yonah fredman

      So you’re saying Jesus was so purely impractical he didn’t realize some came with money to buy a sacrifice, rather than with a bird or animal sacrifice because they came from far away? Where’s the evidence of this? He was a carpenter or something akin to one. Who’s more practical than a carpenter? It’s at least as viable to speculate Jesus knew that the motive of the moneychangers was to get rich off of the needs, or presumed needs, of the people. And that the moneychangers bought low and sold high with the blessing of the Temple. Makes me think Jesus is to the Jewish Establishment as Luther is to the Catholic Establishment, each in their time.

  24. David Doppler
    February 21, 2014, 3:45 pm

    The dual loyalty charge and its denial are false analytics, left over from tribal living thousands of years ago, when one’s tribe counted for one’s territory, language, religion, various disciplines of food, thought, etc. In modern times, we all belong to many tribes – our local, state and national political jurisdictions, our political parties or factions, our religious groups, our workforces, our schools, our neighborhoods, the sports teams we root for, the news, entertainment and social media outlets we invest time in, the professional societies and clubs or other organizations we belong to. The modern state, led by the American model, deliberately limits the power of each tiered political jurisdiction, separates church from state, asserts the individual’s liberty to do as he or she well pleases, subject to limited government constraints, and asserts that the purpose of each political jurisdiction is to secure the rights of the individuals who comprise the jurisdiction, deriving its just powers from their consent – not from God or higher authority. All the different groups we belong to compete with each other for our attention, loyalty, support. Unless you’re sworn to some office of government or the governance of this or that society, your loyalties are yours to dole out as you see fit. In 225 years, following this model, the US has achieved unprecedented success and stability, and demonstrated repeatedly its ability to endure and eventually slough off historic levels of incompetence and corruption among its elected leaders and people, and to continuously improve upon its cultural institutions, to attract new talent to its gene pool, to make more perfect its union. The history of what I believe are three relatively brief Jewish states, based on a covenant between G-d and the Jewish tribe, in a promised but disputed land, subject to a rigid religious code and process that makes different rules for Jews and non-Jews, administered by rabbis and political authorities to which the rabbis cede power over military and civil matters, has been one of very temporary ascendancy, conflict, and repeated failure. Any American Jew is free to support Israel and whatever political movement, philanthropy, think tank, school of thought, and other institutions and groups he or she chooses, except that, upon taking government office, or the office in any other institution or society, prior loyalty to that government or society is required. If any American takes any such office, pledges such loyalty, but openly or secretly reserves a higher loyalty to another group, then that American is not fulfilling his office, and is subject to rightful criticism from members or citizens who make up the jurisdiction or society. The notion that the loyalties of our leaders cannot be fully dissected and discussed is anathema to American free speech and free press. To America, Jewish angst over what it means to be a Jew and an American, how leaders who happen to be Jewish should resolve dissonance between loyalties, are just examples of robust civic life in a free and diverse modern society. History favors limited, democratic, representative, non-racist, non-religious government, that owes its highest loyalty to the laws of the land which secure our rights in an open society – life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness – to us, its people. Racists, fanatics, fundamentalists, totalitarians, fools, censors, and thought police be damned.

    • Citizen
      February 22, 2014, 8:20 am

      @ David Doppler
      Well said! And what you said should be a lot more obvious to more Americans than it is.

  25. seafoid
    February 21, 2014, 5:34 pm

    Judaism has this weird dichotomy of intellectual curiosity and shtetl thinking. Zionism is shtetl -it is basically a cult where loyalty comes before intelligence.
    It’s run by thugs. So when the memes are in shreds they impose obedience.
    Like it’s going to make a difference.

    Now Zionism wants to strangle intellectual curiosity. Turn US Jews into IDF clones.
    Good luck with that.

    • MRW
      February 21, 2014, 7:52 pm

      Judaism has this weird dichotomy of intellectual curiosity and shtetl thinking. Zionism is shtetl -it is basically a cult where loyalty comes before intelligence.
      It’s run by thugs. So when the memes are in shreds they impose obedience.
      Like it’s going to make a difference.

      On fire today.

    • Talkback
      February 22, 2014, 4:29 am

      Zionism is shtetl -it is basically a cult where loyalty comes before intelligence.

      But “sthetl” is Judaism, not?

  26. Keith
    February 21, 2014, 6:56 pm

    PHIL- “The Jewish community is rebranding Jewish culture, from the brave civilization that gave us the greatest minds of the last 100 years, Einstein, Marx and Freud….”

    Had you said “some” of the greatest minds, I would be more forgiving, however, this statement reeks of both Euro-centrism and Judeo-centrism to an embarrassing degree. Let me begin by saying that I consider both Marx and Freud (particularly Freud) to be easily two of the most overrated individuals to have lived. Freud was a fraud who projected his hang-ups onto his (primarily Jewish) patients. Penis envy, indeed! Marx merely inverted classical economics in order to justify a centralized dictatorship of elites. As long as the left continues to cling to Marxist thinking, it will doomed to continued intellectual irrelevancy.

    While there is little doubt about Einstein’s achievements, to what degree are you claiming that his mathematical genius was a product of Jewish culture and community? I am not aware that either Judaism or Jewishness influenced his mathematics one way or the other. How about non-European societies, anyone there not deserving of dismissal as one of the “greatest minds?”

    • Ecru
      February 22, 2014, 3:47 am

      @ Keith

      Nicely put.

    • German Lefty
      February 22, 2014, 6:19 am

      Had you said “some” of the greatest minds, I would be more forgiving, however, this statement reeks of both Euro-centrism and Judeo-centrism to an embarrassing degree. […] While there is little doubt about Einstein’s achievements, to what degree are you claiming that his mathematical genius was a product of Jewish culture and community? I am not aware that either Judaism or Jewishness influenced his mathematics one way or the other.

      Correct!

    • American
      February 22, 2014, 9:07 am

      Keith says…
      ‘Had you said “some” of the greatest minds, I would be more forgiving, ”

      Ditto, except I dont really care about the Jewish need to claim ‘the’ greatest minds for the group.
      However intellectualism and greatest minds needs some permanent definition cause it cycles like popular music and art, from Bach to hood -rapper music,
      some of it is good and some of it is garbage.
      There is a lot of intellectual garbage out there—Zionism is one of them.

  27. DaBakr
    February 21, 2014, 7:01 pm

    the analogy to shabbatai zevi is what to me seems hysterical and embarrassing. there is very little to compare the Jewish diaspora of today with that which existed in europe, ottoman, and muslim empires circa 17th century. sheesh. sabbatai tzvi? give it a rest. i take it you see modern Israel as the ‘replacement’ for tzvi? and all its supporters as the Jews that eventually were ridiculed and tortured after tzvis forced conversion to islam? great analogy.

    • puppies
      February 22, 2014, 5:45 pm

      @Abubakr – I have to agree, what the hell is a mention of the Zevi movement, a religious heretic movement, is doing in this (bad) text, and how would it connect to anything? These guys were sincerely following a mystical, universalist and humanist feeling and getting rid of a lot of ballast. Zionists are pure murderous nationalists.

  28. jayn0t
    February 21, 2014, 7:26 pm

    “Einstein, Marx and Freud”. 1 out of 3 ain’t bad.

  29. jayn0t
    February 21, 2014, 7:29 pm

    “The desperate pass to which Zionism has brought the American Jewish community”. Really? Surely Zionism has brought the American – and world – Jewish community to the most powerful position in its history.

    • Ecru
      February 22, 2014, 3:46 am

      @ jaynot

      “Surely Zionism has brought the American – and world – Jewish community to the most powerful position in its history.”

      No that would be the concepts of equality and universal human rights. Zionism stands in diametric opposition to these ideas.

      • jayn0t
        February 22, 2014, 11:45 am

        Equality, human rights, etc. helped the Jewish community to some extent. This explains Jewish overrepresentation in the civil rights movement and leftism in general, which continues to exaggerate white racism, deflecting attention from Zionism. But this hardly compares with Zionism itself, which has put Jews in the position of being the only “ethnic group” (however defined) which has its own apartheid state, backed to the hilt by all the world’s most powerful countries, of which any Jew can become a citizen, and live on recently ethnically-cleansed land. That’s power.

      • German Lefty
        February 22, 2014, 4:26 pm

        This explains Jewish overrepresentation in the civil rights movement and leftism in general, which continues to exaggerate white racism, deflecting attention from Zionism.

        I agree.

      • Citizen
        February 22, 2014, 4:30 pm

        @ Ecru
        I think you are confusing powerful ethical principles with actual economic and military power. The US is the only super power in the world. It’s footprint in the world is dictated by the “pro-Israel” lobby in behalf a state the size of NJ which is an apartheid state and the lone continuing colonial state grabbing more land and settling it as facts on the ground daily–this in the face of the Nuremberg Trials and their Geneva progeny in terms of international/universal law. Those laws were paid for by the dead, maimed, and dispossessed of two world wars. That’s real power.

  30. Sycamores
    February 21, 2014, 7:37 pm

    i’m not sure about Philip Weiss ‘crazy uncle’ analogy, maybe it’s a New York thing.

    most people knows how to deal with a ‘crazy uncle’, you let him rant on for awhile give the occasional smile or nod until the next relative takes his/her turn at the helm and so on, eventually the uncle will wear himself out, falls asleep or goes home. no harm done, everyone has a reasonable pleasant night and only a slight bit anxious about the next family get together.

    however these New York uncles are a complete different kettle of fish they have the power of censorship.

    the word ‘crazy’ is to flippant in this case a better word would be dangerous.

    Young Jews are rising up against the censorship but it’s going to take a long time to turn this trend around.

    what are the older people doing to help? why aren’t they providing more avenues for the younger ones to get together? does all the responsibilties have to be place on the youth?

    open Hillel is great but it’s not enough. the increase membership for open Hillel, that i’m been reading about, proves that the youth are willing discuss things now.

    it needs to be said that the censorship of John Judis and other Jewish writers is not just a censorship towards the Jewish community but to all communities.

  31. Les
    February 21, 2014, 8:22 pm

    Zionists believe that the liquidation of the Palestinians is required if Judaism is to survive. Where would Christianity be today in the US if its leaders continued to push for the liquidation of the Indians?

  32. DICKERSON3870
    February 21, 2014, 10:44 pm

    RE: “In the last year or so there have been stark acts of censorship by the 92d Street Y and Washington DC Jewish Community Center and Hillel International . . .” ~ Weiss

    NOT TO MENTION: “Peter ‘Powder Keg’ Beinart is disinvited from gig at Atlanta Jewish book festival”, by Annie Robbins, Mondoweiss, 11/05/12

    [EXCERPTS] The Marcus Jewish Community Center of Atlanta (MJCCA) has dis-invited liberal Zionist Peter Beinart from a speaking engagement at its annual Jewish book festival, presumably because he has called for a boycott of settlement goods, and it’s causing quite a stir. Everyone from J Street to Holocaust historian Deborah Lipstadt is weighing in. The event is expected to attract over 10,000 people this year. Beinart is one of 55 authors, some best selling, listed on MJCCA’s 2012 festival brochure. His talk, named “Zionist Zeal” about his book ‘The Crisis of Zionism’, is listed on page 16, relegated to a spot alongside “Low Cal Gal” Lisa Lillian and right above Marni Davis’s “Jews and Booze”.
    The center’s president and CEO are now defending their decision to cancel Beinart’s invitation, claiming that once that brochure went out with word of Beinart’s appearance, protests came “pouring in.”
    However, just how many of the center’s 18,000 members participated in this screeching avalanche of disapproval is not information Steven Cadranel, the president of the MJCCA, is willing to disclose. Nor is he saying if any arm twisting measures were employed. After all, it’s entirely possible merely a few big donors expressed their disapproval in a way that could impact the economic future of the center and phff… and so, for the first time in the history of the festival, a scheduled writer’s invitation went kaput.
    San Franciscans are quite familiar with this kind of blacklash against Jewish cultural events since the San Francisco Jewish Community Federation announced extremely restrictive funding guidelines a few years ago
    accompanied by “witch hunts.” . . .

    SOURCE – http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/peter-powder-keg-beinart-is-disinvited-from-gig-at-atlanta-jewish-book-festival.html

    • puppies
      February 22, 2014, 1:18 pm

      @Dickerson – That’s good, let the Zionist bastards eat each other.

  33. Shuki
    February 21, 2014, 10:56 pm

    Whining about the fact that a proponent of BDS is, herself, being boycotted.

    Ironic, hypocritical and pathetic.

    • Talkback
      February 22, 2014, 4:42 am

      Really? What crimes did she commit to justify a boycott against her? Oh wait, she’s criticizing them. That’s antisemitic, right? Wait, she’s Jewish. Boycotting her is antisemitic, no? Damn I’m caught in the maze of Zionist pseudo intellectualism.

      • Yitzgood
        February 23, 2014, 3:13 am

        Really? What crimes did she commit to justify a boycott against her? Oh wait, she’s criticizing them. That’s antisemitic, right? Wait, she’s Jewish. Boycotting her is antisemitic, no? Damn I’m caught in the maze of Zionist pseudo intellectualism.

        I think you’re caught in your own pseudo intellectualism. If someone is boycotting me or something I support, why can’t I reciprocate?

      • Sumud
        February 23, 2014, 4:11 am

        If someone is boycotting me or something I support, why can’t I reciprocate?

        That’s the kind of brain-dead response that marks the moral bankruptcy of zionism.

        BDS is about restoration of some very basic human rights. Rather than causing Yitzgood and Shuki to reflect on where and why zionism is failing they simply want revenge.

      • Cliff
        February 23, 2014, 11:12 am

        @Sumud

        Yitz and other Zio-bots have several inane stratagems.

        False equivalencies when possible. When not possible, play up Palestinian suicide bombing as if it were another Holocaust. Oh and frame every single anti-Zionist sentiment of note as being ‘anti-Israel’ (for anti-Israel-isms’ sake).

        Read his comment below asking for less moderation for Zionists like himself and for banning the use of the word ‘Ziobot’.

        I actually propose a trade:

        Ban all commentators who deny the Nakba or minimize the Nakba. Ban all commentators who support anti-miscegenation campaigns (potatosellerYehude), ban all commentators who say the Palestinians are Nazis and all Arab political agency is genocidal (hophmi). Ban all commentators who cite the Bible as a primary source (RJL, gilad, yrn, etc. etc.).

        @Yitz

        I hope you don’t sincerely think your camp here @MW is more reasonable and would fare well under ACTUAL moderation (which MW does not have and never has).

        You all would be banned before the anti-Zionists (like myself) would.

        EDIT:

        Oh and I fully support the bans above and would not mind being banned myself if it meant that MW had become super strict and followed the commenting policy (no denying, no racism, no TROLLING).

        That is the biggest problem. People like Yitz are TROLLS. They do not deserve to be here. The Internet is a big place and sociopaths/sadists like Yitz and co. will always be around.

        http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/online-trolls-are-psychopaths-and-sadists-psychologists-claim-9134396.html

        But why let them be around HERE?

      • Yitzgood
        February 23, 2014, 12:13 pm

        That’s the kind of brain-dead response that marks the moral bankruptcy of zionism.

        You’re exactly like the guy on Monty Python who says “this is just the sort blinkered philistine pig ignorance I’ve come to expect from you non-creative garbage”

        BDS is about restoration of some very basic human rights.

        Not human rights conceived in libertarian terms. Maybe BDS notions of restoring dominance to the authentic people and making the inauthentic people (who should have had better taste in ancestors) choose between leaving and “indigenizing” are assimilated to some sort of social justice anti-imperialist notion of human rights, but no, BDS, isn’t about human rights. If you believe that people should run their own lives, then you want that for Israeli Jews as well and you’re careful about making common cause with groups like Hamas. This is too large a subject to do justice to in a few sentences, but at least I recognize the problem. Sumud showed no signs of recognizing it.

        Rather than causing Yitzgood and Shuki to reflect on where and why zionism is failing they simply want revenge.

        I can’t speak for Shuki, but I think BDS is immoral. I’m not interested in patronizing its businesses or lending it any other sort of support or cooperation.

      • Cliff
        February 23, 2014, 11:08 am

        @Yitz

        Below you make an appeal to the MW mods to take Zionist commentators like yourself more seriously.

        But here you draw a parallel between boycotting apartheid and boycotting the boycotters of apartheid.

        Let’s take Israel out of the equation (your bias) – do you think boycott is a legitimate tool to exact social reform/change through non-violence?

        Are you against boycotts now because Israel is a target of boycotts? Do you think all forms of protest are illegitimate unless they are channelled through the mainstream political Establishment (again, this serves your bias, since Zionism is mainstream)?

        Should us non-Zionists defer to Zionist judgment regarding how peace can be achieved and give Zionists the benefit of the doubt?

        Of course all the above is rhetorical.

        You are not a ‘serious Zionist commentator’. You are no different from the deranged settler yrn, giladg, NormanF, mcohen, etc. etc.

        There are NO ‘serious Zionist commentators’ – not on MW and not anywhere else.

        All reasonable Zionists end up supporting the BDS movement to some degree (J. Slater or MJ Rosenberg).

        Any other Zionist will not and also make these stupid false equivalences (which of course ignore the power dynamic and context).

        BDS is against apartheid. Anti-BDS is against being against apartheid (and denies that apartheid exists).

        Your criticisms of MW as not being able to foster discussion is laughable. The fact that your cynical, two-faced, hypocrisy is allowed through moderation is proof that MW allows discussion between Zionists and anti-Zionists – on equal footing.

        In fact, your cult here at MW has posted some of the most vile, hateful, nationalistic garbage on the Internet. I can only imagine the White supremacists being able to match your hatefulness.

        I even think a commentator, ‘dimmadok’ – was saying it was ok to shoot civilians and international observers.

        That is who you are and what Zionism is. And the fact that you miss all those comments and instead focus on our mere opposition to your crap (you’ll pick out a comment by one of us, saying for example, that hophmi is posting bull****, as some kind of ‘proof’ that we’re anti-discussion – as if we have to sit by and not remark on his bullshit and yours and every other Zionist here) – belies all your sanctimonious protestations.

        And please, spare us the pretentious and inane use of phrases like ‘pseudo intellectualism’. Every person is a pseudo-intellectual when it comes to social sciences, you clown.

      • Yitzgood
        February 23, 2014, 6:37 pm

        Below you make an appeal to the MW mods to take Zionist commentators like yourself more seriously.

        The moderation policy supposedly allows different viewpoints and disallows insults. They can do whatever they want.

        But here you draw a parallel between boycotting apartheid and boycotting the boycotters of apartheid.

        And when did you stop beating your wife? I don’t think Zionism is Apartheid, so I didn’t compare boycotting apartheid with boycotting boycotts.

        I even think a commentator, ‘dimmadok’ – was saying it was ok to shoot civilians and international observers.

        That is who you are and what Zionism is.

        Is that a new fallacy–the argument ad dimmadokum? Anything anyone ever said in favor of Zionism is “what I am”? Are you trying to see if you can get me to start insulting your intelligence?

        And please, spare us the pretentious and inane use of phrases like ‘pseudo intellectualism’. Every person is a pseudo-intellectual when it comes to social sciences, you clown.

        Um, look at what I was replying to. I turned the phrase “pseudo-intellectual” back on the person who introduced it into the conversation.

      • Citizen
        February 24, 2014, 6:03 am

        @ Yitzgood
        Has BDS ever been moral at any time and place in world history? Has it ever been justified as a form of non-violent protest against any government or group anywhere on the planet by any other government or group? Do you support any form of political protest speech?

      • gingershot
        February 23, 2014, 9:07 pm

        hilarious!

      • Sumud
        February 24, 2014, 3:41 am

        @Yitzgood

        Not human rights conceived in libertarian terms. Maybe BDS notions of restoring dominance to the authentic people and making the inauthentic people (who should have had better taste in ancestors) choose between leaving and “indigenizing” are assimilated to some sort of social justice anti-imperialist notion of human rights, but no, BDS, isn’t about human rights. If you believe that people should run their own lives, then you want that for Israeli Jews as well and you’re careful about making common cause with groups like Hamas. This is too large a subject to do justice to in a few sentences, but at least I recognize the problem. Sumud showed no signs of recognizing it.

        Word salad!

        Please explain which BDS Movement aims are incompatible with human rights as you falsely claim:

        1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
        2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
        3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.

        Please explain also how BDS is seeking to restore “dominance to the authentic people” rather than institute universal rights for all people.

        Please explain what privileges BDS is seeking to give Palestinians over jewish Israelis.

      • Yitzgood
        February 24, 2014, 7:04 pm

        <i.Please explain also how BDS is seeking to restore “dominance to the authentic people” rather than institute universal rights for all people.

        It think BDS-ers want to recreate an Arab majority in Israel and that trumps everything else. If it is actually a set-back for the libertarian human rights–freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, that sort of thing–they will still be deliriously happy. If the Helen Thomas vision of the future is realized and large numbers of Jews become refugees, well, too bad, a guy named Chaim born in Tel Aviv is an usurper by birth.

        I sometimes ask anti-Zionists whether they would support just abolishing all legal distinctions between Jews and non-Jews in the territories governed by the two governments that are supposedly negotiating for peace right now and merging the two territories. That means you would have a completely egalitarian state in what used to be green-line Israel and the West Bank, a country simply for its inhabitants. That new democratic country, let’s call it Egalitaria, will have a Jewish majority and will probably not institute an immigration policy designed to reverse the demographics of the country. I even tried asking this question in the comments section of Mondoweiss once. The anti-Zionists always tell me they would not support such a plan. The “right of return” is non-negotiable. It is usually not a good idea to tell one’s political opponents what they think–surely they know best what is in their own minds–but I think I’m on fairly solid ground here.

  34. [email protected]
    February 22, 2014, 8:51 am

    The insane censorship efforts of American Jews who support Israel will help the majority of the American Jewish population see more clearly the reality of Israel and its supporters–inclined towards totalitarian rights-suppressing as needed to maintain apartheid in Israel.

    The censorship-fest may well break the stranglehold of Zionists on Jewish institutions and communities in America.

  35. just
    February 22, 2014, 3:53 pm

    Interesting little factoid wrt Freud:

    “Sigmund Freud one of the world’s most famous Jews and the father of modern psychoanalysis, rejected political Zionism, joining Albert Einstein and other prominent Jewish intellectuals (Einstein embraced spiritual Zionism but not the idea of a militarized Jewish political state that would disenfranchise Palestinian Arabs and deny them full equality). Here is a letter on the subject that Freud wrote to writing to a Zionist, Dr. Chaim Koffler, who had tried to recruit him to the Zionist cause, in 1930:

    Vienna: 26 February 1930

    Dear Sir:

    “I cannot do as you wish [i.e., become a Zionist] … Whoever wants to influence the masses must give them something rousing and inflammatory and my sober judgment of Zionism does not permit this. I certainly sympathize with its goals, am proud of our University in Jerusalem and am delighted with our settlement’s prosperity. But, on the other hand, I do not think that Palestine could ever become a Jewish state, nor that the Christian and Islamic worlds would ever be prepared to have their holy places under Jewish care. It would have seemed more sensible to me to establish a Jewish homeland on a less historically-burdened land. But I know that such a rational viewpoint would never have gained the enthusiasm of the masses and the financial support of the wealthy. I concede with sorrow that the baseless fanaticism of our people is in part to be blamed for the awakening of Arab distrust. I can raise no sympathy at all for the misdirected piety which transforms a piece of a Herodian wall into a national relic, thereby offending the feelings of the natives. Now judge for yourself whether I, with such a critical point of view, am the right person to come forward as the solace of a people deluded by unjustified hope.”

    Your obedient servant,
    Freud ”

    http://www.thehypertexts.com/Nakba%20Holocaust%20Palestinians%20Sigmund%20Freud%20on%20Zionism.htm

  36. just
    February 22, 2014, 3:57 pm

    More here:

    “Albert Einstein’s 1948 Letter to the New York Times

    If we want to understand the real history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, we can go to a trustworthy Jewish source: Albert Einstein. Einstein was a humanitarian and peace activist, in addition to being one of the greatest scientists of all time. What did this ultra-intelligent, wise Jew have to say about Israel’s brutal treatment of Palestinians? In his landmark letter to the New York Times in 1948, Einstein clearly and candidly explained why Israel’s leaders were not to be trusted and did not deserve money or support from Americans. You can find scanned images of the Einstein letter online. The letter was signed by Hannah Arendt, Sidney Hook and more than 20 other Jewish intellectuals who wanted to alert Americans and the larger world about the dangers represented by the emergence of racism, fascism, terrorism and religious fanaticism in the newly-formed state of Israel. The also predicted the disastrous results we see today in Israel/Palestine. I have annotated the letter with [bracketed comments] to help readers better understand how the “Einstein Letter” relates to the present situation. I will also point out that other highly prominent, world-esteemed Jews have strongly opposed the policies and methods of the militant Zionists, including Sigmund Freud, Franz Kafka, Isaac Asimov, Erich Fromm and Noam Chomsky. They have been joined by great men of peace like Mohandas Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu and Jimmy Carter. — Michael R. Burch, an editor and publisher of Holocaust and Nakba poetry”

    Link to the letter here

    http://www.thehypertexts.com/Albert%20Einstein%201948%20Letter%20New%20York%20Times%20Nakba.htm

    • Citizen
      February 22, 2014, 4:42 pm

      James Webb, talking about how the Scots-Irish shaped America, would see some similarities here.

  37. American
    February 22, 2014, 9:03 pm

    Well this…

    “”Young Jews are rising up against the censorship but it’s going to take a long time to turn this trend around”’

    ….is the most important thing said in all this. Because in that long time all kinds of possibilities for Israel to become ‘badder’ and crazier are out there.
    No one can wait for the older Jews or Judaism to shed zionism–or wait for the younger Jews to take over.
    You have to get the politicians, get the politicians, get the politicians…get between them and the zionist.

  38. Yitzgood
    February 22, 2014, 10:29 pm

    Free speech begins at home. Fix the broken atmosphere at Mondoweiss which is hostile to serious pro-Israel viewpoints and which is aided and abetted by the moderation. Not allowing “Zio-bot” would be a start. And figure out how to get the moderation out of the way of people who adhere to the moderation policy. Institute automatic approval, for instance, which can be revoked if need be.

    • Citizen
      February 23, 2014, 4:58 am

      @ Yitzgood
      In case you don’t live in the USA, Mondoweiss is a samizdat species of blog. The US mainstream media is totally pro-Israel as is the US government. The term “Zio-bot” refers to those commenting on this blog who merely reflect this current US main media and governmental bias, which has been peddled for many decades in America. Your comment turns American reality upside down.

      • Yitzgood
        February 23, 2014, 12:16 pm

        The US mainstream media is totally pro-Israel

        And that’s why the Washington Post ran an editorial by Ismail Haniyeh? I wasn’t shocked when that happened, were you?

  39. spokelse
    February 23, 2014, 4:12 am

    Jewish Voice for Peace has the same problem in the bay area with the SF Jewish community center, we have been blackballed from having any meetings there after we had an awards dinner honoring Judith Butler several years back. The SF JCC even drafted new by-laws that demand that organizations “support Israel” in very specific ways in order to be able to meet at the SF JCC. All the while these PEPS have seminars and programs on progressive Jewish issues, vomitous frankly.

  40. Citizen
    February 23, 2014, 8:15 am

    While the American Jewish community commits intellectual suicide before our eyes, Israel’s man PM Netanyahu adds fuel to the dying flame by calling all non-Jews around the world anti-semites: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/02/22/netanyahu-calls-the-whole-world-anti-semites/

    What if a 21st Century world leader called all Jews Goy-haters due to a birth defect?

  41. Philip Weiss
    February 23, 2014, 10:04 am

    I’m with Yonah all the way here. My wife has a crude painting of Freud she got at a garage sale that some amateur painted, with love. She bought it because it captures her own gratitude to Freud for starting a conversation about the unconscious (which Melville and many others knew about before Freud but that Freud articulated in a new way) that ultimately led to the therapy revolution in the U.S. that allowed my wife to emerge from a divorce a stronger person. Today she would agree with many of the criticisms of Freud and of psychotherapy. But his cultural influence was huge, in her humble opinion, and yes my mother’s too.

  42. jek2148
    February 23, 2014, 11:40 pm

    Fantastic article, Phil.
    This is a topic that is extremely disturbing to me.
    It’s one that a documentary project that I am in the process of co-producing is looking to address: http://igg.me/at/TheLines/x/6444657.
    If anyone would like to discuss this particular issue– the holes in Israeli education in the American Jewish day school system– further, we are looking for all types of input. Please contact me at [email protected].
    Thanks and have a great week,
    Jana

    • Annie Robbins
      February 24, 2014, 12:06 am

      jana, that’s a very interesting little film. it’s radical he said ‘before i went to penn i never even heard the word occupation mentioned.’ one wonders if he’s heard the word nakba?

  43. gingershot
    February 24, 2014, 8:19 pm

    Zionism (as practiced by Israelis) is Racism, Apartheid Racism

    In the Post-Apartheid aftermath, post-ICC or whatever, Zionism will need to be equated to (Apartheid) Racism at the UN, or at least in practice – and I have absolutely no problem with that whatsoever. The Israeli flag of the Apartheid State should be forever banned and displayed only as a historical reminder.

    It’s also time to destroy political American Zionism, as supportive of the Apartheid Israeli state. Now.

    American Zionists, genocidaires as well as soi-disant ‘liberal pro-war crime Zionists’ (from Pam Geller, to Dershowitz, Bibi Netanyahu (oh yeah), Dennis Ross, Andrea Mitchell, David Gregory, Ari Fleischer, Eric Alterman, The Kagans, Krauthammer, Isabel Kerschner, Nuland, David Brooks, Tom Friedman, and every other liberal Zionist) – – it’s time to cut them all off at the knees, not by cutting off their ‘mikes’, but by destroying their Pro-Apartheid arguments and careers.

    Yes, that’s right, I want David Brooks off the air – this Neocon Zionist (supporting wars in Iraq, then his phony neocon apology, Syria, and Iran) is one of the faces of the Apartheid state’ – as well as Apartheid Israel itself and the whole Neocon agenda – OFF THE AIR after he is destroyed ON THE AIR.

    All the Neocons. Perle, Kristol, Krauthammer, Feith, Woolsey, Max Boot, the Kagans. At.The.Knees.Now. Every one of them. Every Zionist. Gone from the American Scam they have been running.

    No more justice delayed and denied for Palestinians after 60 yrs of Israelis crimes. Israel gets treated exactly like everybody else. And so do American Zionists. Warcrime is a warcrime – Israeli or other.

    Could anyone believe what would happen if Pro-ZionistDavid Gregory or ‘spunky’ Pro-Zionist Andrea Mitchell were shouted off their chairs for the blind Pro-Tribe Pro-Apartheid blatant racists they are, or in Mondoweiss fashion, intellectually annihilated (haha) with one single hardball follow-up question?

    Here’s my hardball for Andrea (or something better):
    ‘Ms Andrea Mitchell, when did you personally STOP actively supporting the Apartheid Israeli state, and why did you participate, year after year, in the intense media cover-up you subjected the American people to (Judy Miller-style) , and so many Palestinian deaths, including Palestinian-American deaths? Do you have anything to say for yourself in defense? Nothing? REALLY?

    The Pro-BDS train is leaving the station – and it’s time to get rid of the American Zionists holding it back in their usual consequence-free bliss. Let’s give them hell. On or Off. Choose. Now.

    Any present or freshly former Zionist not on the BDS train, cut them off at their knees. They haven’t made the train for 60 years? – they ran out of time? -dog ate homework? BooHoo. Liars. Off. At. The. Knees

    Now, when they are running around with their heads cut off, Bill Kristol tearing AIPAC apart because they are not sticking their head in the noose of Defending Israeli Apartheid by Attacking Iran.

    Let’s take them all off at the knees right now. If they are still practicing dangerous Zionists – like Kristol – we immediately DESTROY their careers (or let their careers self-destruct

    Making the world tolerate Israeli Apartheid – and pay the Israelis and shower them with guns to do their killing – is the most grievous act of intolerance I can imagine.

    I’m done with tolerating Zionists. To the Hague, prison, or out of Palestine. Or all Three.

    The ‘Active Genocidaire Variety Zionist’ should be charged for hate crimes by the ADL and JDL and ACLU and everybody else, and shunned in their communities by American Jews.

    Any Israeli, Rabbi, or American Zionist who attempts to give American Jewish/Christian Zionist time to take cover gets wiped out in the rout.

    My next sentiment is two-part:
    American Zionists need to get guilted ‘beyond belief’ – guilted beyond whatever level it is they can NO LONGER TOLERATE continuing to be a Zionist. Guilted mercilessly — and rightfully hated (oh yes I used that word ‘hated’) — until they are STOPPED. Israelis Jews HATED until stopped? That’s how THINGS are stopped. Duh. That’s why Israelis and American Zionists don’t let us talk about it without TAKING US ‘Anti-Zionist Semites’ OUT. Oh yes, like Charles Freeman. Bush, Sr. Sibel Edmonds. So many it would fill a page, easy.

    Apartheid and American Zionists supporting Apartheid Israel need to be hated out of existence. Another way of saying precisely the same thing is Palestinians need to be PROTECTED from this aggressive, criminal (Geneva, etc) ultra-highly connected Tribe because we love Palestinians as we love all human beings, and hate their tormentors who used OUR MONEY and OUR GUNS to commit their crimes, as we would hate any other despicable regime that was LIKE Israel.

    Oh yes – and Israeli Hasbara, used to cover and continue their crimes, I hate WORST OF ALL. Cut. It. Off. At. The. Knees. Take David Gregory out next time eh stacks the deck with three Zionists (himself included).

    And I’m talking Zionism in an undifferentiated sense – from genocidaire to liberal zionist, if there is a difference) – they ALL get taken out. ‘Let Allah sort them out’, as Sister Sarah would say.

    We – actually I – have begun my scheme to dump a precise train-car load of guilt on every American Zionist Jew (-or Christian, Buddist, TMer, Rastafarian, etc) that lets out a peep – the kind of guilt that drives them to their therapists offices, or worse. Off. At.The. Knees.

    which is a good thing, because it at least takes off the streets trying to support (and politically force America, thru their spy/Congress-buying apparatus called AIPAC, (and the Media/David Gregory, Andrea Mitchell) to go to war with Iraq, Syria, Iran, thousands of Americans dying, millions of Iraqis, Afghanis, Lebanese, Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc, etc, etc – the more the better according to Daniel Pipes, Feith, Cheney, Robert Spencer, Anders Breivik, Avigdor and Joe Lieberman, Krauthammer, etc)

    The Birthright Program is cancelled – canceled because the run on Broadway and Tel Aviv of the Apartheid Theater just came crashing down, as the Pro-Israel policies forced on the Middle East by ‘American Zionist Neocons’, brought the World Trade Center crashing down.

    Anyone who underestimates the Israelis (or over-estimates them, for that matter) is stupid. Duh. We take them off at the knees, before Israel launches ANOTHER war against You-name-it-land. We escaped these ‘American Zionist Neocons’ by the skin on our teeth just THREE MONTHS AGO.

    Israel is cornered, in chaos, desperate, headed for the ICC in Sept 2014 (‘again’, sigh), and ready to lash out at Iran (–barely stopped in 2007, 2012, etc) We take them off at the knees, now.

    Israel is cornered, in chaos, and ready to lash out at Iran (–barely stopped in 2007, 2012, etc) We take them off at the knees, now.

    been caught in flagrante delicto supporting Apartheid Israel. Israeli Zionism and well as American Zionist support is digging in for the 2, 5, 10, 15 fight to the death. Let’s shorten that time-frame, in mercy to the Palestinians, in for no other reason. Next Palestinian ‘unjustly’ (anywhere in Palestine) killed by an Israeli means that that Israeli is going up, personally, for committing a war crime, and his superiors as well.

    How deep should I/we/anybody drive the knife into American Zionism – at a time when many/most/any average American Jews (and the ‘Hagee’/Christian Right as well) still support in flagrante delicto support of Poor Little Israel?– before these Israelis and her Israeli Lobby starts figuring out how to regroup? The answer is obvious.

    Israeli Zionism must be utterly destroyed – let them practice it from the confines of their prison cells, rather than Palestinians dreaming about destroying Apartheid from inside Israeli one. Not just a little bit destroyed where a liberal Zionist like David Brooks or Dershowitz gets to set the boundaries over which Israelis kill Palestinians, on Palestinian land.

    Bill Kristol, David Brooks, David Friedman, the Protestant Wing of JINSA – all of ’em – all in one fell Anti-Zionist ‘Kristol Night’ swoop. Heard them all of to Grand Jury Inquires on the extent of Israeli/Neocon penetration of the US Congress, and FORCE AIPAC to register as an agent of an foreign hostile Apartheid government. That’s the price American Jews pay, along with the Titanic-load of existential religion-changing guilt of having supported the Palestinian Naqkba – with BELLS ON THEIR TOES

    We catch them now – out in the open. Before the retrench and regroup.

    I’m already doing it

    Let’s catch American Zionists out and humiliate them publically – the Bill Kristols and David Brooks and Mr Suck. On. That. Zionist-himself, Mr Friedman. Discredit Zionism as practiced, Apartheid Zionist as the Nurenberg Violationg, Geneva Convention Violating, Repeated (decade after decade prior to the manufactured Apartheid Excuse – that the people we are killing are fighting back, an act we proclaim to be ‘Terrorism’. Other people, like the Geneva Convention signatories, would say Palestinians have had every right to fight back against their terrorist ethnic cleansers

    They didn’t cheerlead
    And guess what? They aren’t going down with a fight so let’s just take that option OUT OF ISRAELI HANDS

    How deep to drive the knife in American Zionists who have supported every aspect (including military service (J Goldberg, etc)

    – all the way in till Zionism (as practiced by Israelis) is

    What about David Brooks, and especially Bill Kristol, who literally single-handedly lied the US into the war in Iraq as part of his Tweaked Clean Break Plan (the GWOT), and published as the Neocons as some kind of real life ‘Protocal of the Elders of Zion-type Thing’, but this time, the real thing, but still able to attack any critics as anti-semites and waste their career like an IDF wasting a Gazan picking up metal in the Israeli declared Sniper Target Range’, which borders of which are apparently somewhat nebulous to all involved. That sick – Shindler’s List sick. Israeli snipers taking out Palestinians, with T-Shirt war porn for espirt d’corps.

    Gazans on diets, formaldehyde, concentration camps, millions of refugees fleeing the Zionist State – hard to believe it would be possible to make up anything as dastardly as the Israelis own words incriminating them over and over and over and over.

    When will the Zionist Dershowitz be removed from the national scene? – his dream is dying. Good.

    Zionism as a practiced concept – decade after decade (and ignoring-angels-on-pinhead hasbara advanced by Zionists themselves to continue the fun — is a deadly serious warcrime, and a political war crime as practiced by the Neocons on the US by way of parlayed Israeli Lobby power, intimidation, career assassiniations (as well as the gleeful IDF type of Apartheid-Defending Warcrimes), and Israel itself

    Shimon Peres once said Israel will not sit accused, rather, it would sit in the accuser’s seat. That era is over – EU President Schulz stuck a fork in Apartheid. Everybody, even Scarlett, gets ‘Water Apartheid’. No ‘Water Apartheid’ basically means the ‘End of All Apartheid’. Brilliant, Pres Schulz

    Apartheid is not cutesy thing for Brooks and Friedman to discuss over coffee at PBS (again, and again – consequence-free) – Israeli Apartheid is a war crime and the vast majority of American Jews STILL SUPPORT this Illegal Regime.

    What I have to say to that is – well looks like I’ve got my work cut out for me – here’s to Bill Kristol’s last smirk, or Dershowitz’s last ‘Case for Apartheid’ making print.

    Time to take them apart – until they self destruct – before another Palestinian dies.

    [Stupid Thought of the Day: EU Schulz reminded me today of the waiter in Monty Python giving that infamous after dinner mint to the Grotesquerie that is Apartheid Israel. Bennett was the vomitus flying out the room
    Let’s give the Liberal Zionists lots and lots of the same until ALL the ‘Grotesquerie of American Pro-Zionists’, and their lethal lies told to our faces – consequence free until now – supporters like Mitchel and Gregory, Brooks and Tom Freidman, all explode. Sorry.]

    I hate the deadly Apartheid Israeli state and I hate the deadly American Zionists who support.

    Sorry for all the brusque or raw calling-a-spade-a-spade-language. Double and Triple apologies for rant-length

  44. Yitzgood
    February 25, 2014, 1:08 am

    Has BDS ever been moral at any time and place in world history? Has it ever been justified as a form of non-violent protest against any government or group anywhere on the planet by any other government or group? Do you support any form of political protest speech?

    Can I take this all as one question? Boycotts are sometimes moral, yes.

    • Citizen
      February 25, 2014, 2:56 am

      @ Yitzgood
      Since you say boycotts are sometimes moral, please give us a few examples and explain regarding each moral one you give us as sample how they differ in fact and principle from (1) BDS against Israel and (2) BDS against only the Israeli settlements.

  45. Yitzgood
    February 25, 2014, 1:19 am

    Didn’t I post in response to Cliff that a troll is someone trying to disrupt conversation by provoking angry responses, not just someone who disagrees (unless TROLL in all-caps has a special meaning)? Does that violate the moderation policy somehow?

  46. Yitzgood
    February 25, 2014, 10:51 pm

    Since you say boycotts are sometimes moral, please give us a few examples and explain regarding each moral one you give us as sample how they differ in fact and principle from (1) BDS against Israel and (2) BDS against only the Israeli settlements.

    What is this, an essay test? I believe there was a Lysistrata-style boycott to try to end the civil war in Sudan. There’s a moral one for you. I think BDS-proponents have moral-sounding rationalizations for what they want. When the Japanese Red Army attacked Lod airport on behalf of the PFLP, even they probably thought they were striking a blow for human rights. Israel obviously has enemies who think absolutely anything that damages its interests is moral. Omar Barghouti , I believe, has made it clear that he opposes the continued existence of what Israel would be it if it simply withdrew completely from the West Bank. Isn’t he the leading proponent of BDS? So if I understand him correctly, he sees BDS as a means to pursue the achievement of that non-existence, a goal which I see as immoral.

    • Annie Robbins
      February 26, 2014, 2:13 am

      i’m curious if you think this was a moral boycott http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Nazi_boycott_of_1933

      A series of protest rallies were held on March 27, 1933, with the New York City rally held at Madison Square Garden with an overflow crowd of 55,000 inside and outside the arena and parallel events held in Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Philadelphia and 70 other locations, with the proceedings at the New York rally broadcast worldwide. Speakers at the Garden included American Federation of Labor president William Green, Senator Robert F. Wagner, former Governor of New York Al Smith and a number of Christian clergyman, joining together in a call for the end of the brutal treatment of German Jews.[1][4][5] Rabbi Moses S. Margolies, spiritual leader of Manhattan’s Congregation Kehilath Jeshurun, rose from his sickbed to address the crowd, bringing the 20,000 inside to their feet with his prayers that the antisemitic persecution cease and that the hearts of Israel’s enemies should be softened.[6] Jewish organizations — including the American Jewish Congress, American League for Defense of Jewish Rights, B’nai B’rith, the Jewish Labor Committee and Jewish War Veterans — joined together in a call for a boycott of German goods.[1]

      the reason i ask, is because bds seeks equality for palestinians ( essentially “end of the brutal treatment of” of palestinians), but you’ve framed barghouti’s aim as “opposes the continued existence of.. Israel…pursue the achievement of that non-existence”, given your framing, do you think it would be fair to say the “Anti-Nazi boycott” of 1933 ‘opposed the existence of germany’, ‘pursued the achievement of germany’s non-existence? or wasn’t it the regime? (as in “anti zionist” boycott?) keeping in mind this was 1933, prior to the holocaust.

      in hindsight, would you have supported that boycott or undermined it?

  47. mcohen
    February 26, 2014, 5:10 am

    Jewish community commits intellectual suicide before our eyes
    Philip Weiss on February 21, 2014 193 says

    “It’s tragic, and embarrassing. The Jewish community is rebranding Jewish culture, ”

    Shmully and guilt
    Philip Weiss on April 26, 2012 462

    “I took some of the cookies I had not been able to eat from the night before and closed the heavy front door after me. It was 6 a.m. and still dark on Shabbos. I drove back home wondering how I was going to mend my ways.”

    {scared of israel,s shadow ,i sneaked out in the early hours of the dawn,cookies in hand.}

    from the Book of Guilt ……the story of a jewish left wing anti zionist special forces operator and his struggle to mend his ways

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