Netanyahu crashes Paris unity march, French gov’t fumes

Israel/Palestine
on 321 Comments

Yesterday millions took to the streets of Paris in a historic “unity” march in the wake of a shocking string of events including the Charlie Hebdo attack and a hostage standoff at a kosher supermarket which killed a total of 17 people. The march did not only attract Parisians wanting to mourn the traumatic events of the previous week, but also world leaders (despite some apparent contradictions). Both Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas were in attendance, although reports have surfaced that the French government wanted to keep them both away.

Barak Ravid reports for Haaretz:

French President Francois Hollande conveyed a message to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over the weekend asking him not to come to Paris to take part in the march against terror on Sunday, according to an Israeli source who was privy to the contacts between the Elysees Palace and the Prime Minister’s Office in Jerusalem. The fact that this message had been conveyed was first reported by Channel 2.

After the French government began to send invitations to world leaders to participate in the rally against terror, Hollande’s national security adviser, Jacques Audibert, contacted his Israeli counterpart, Yossi Cohen, and said that Hollande would prefer that Netanyahu not attend, the source said.

Audibert explained that Hollande wanted the event to focus on demonstrating solidarity with France, and to avoid anything liable to divert attention to other controversial issues, like Jewish-Muslim relations or the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Audibert said that Hollande hoped that Netanyahu would understand the difficulties his arrival might pose and would announce that he would not be attending.

The source noted that one of the French concerns – not conveyed to representatives of the Israeli government – was that Netanyahu would take advantage of the event for campaign purposes and make speeches, especially about the Jews of France. Such statements, the Elysee Palace feared, would hurt the demonstration of solidarity the French government was trying to promote as part of dealing with the terror attacks.

Netanyahu reportedly first agreed to stay away, but then changed course upon learning that his political rivals Avigdor Lieberman and Naftali Bennett would be there.

Ravid continues:

When Netanyahu heard [Lieberman and Bennett] were going, he informed the French he would be attending the march after all.

According to the source, when Cohen informed Audibert that Netanyahu would be attending the event after all, Audibert angrily told Cohen that the prime minister’s conduct would have an adverse effect on ties between the two countries as long as Hollande was president of France and Netanyahu was prime minister of Israel.

And Hollande’s concerns about Netanyahu were well founded. The Israeli leader did seek to exploit the tragedy in a speech at the Grand Synagogue in Paris where he made the case for French Jews to leave the country for Israel. From The Jerusalem Post:

Netanyahu, careful not to overtly called for immediate immigration, said, “ I want to say to you what I say to all our Jewish brothers, that you have a full right to live secure and peaceful lives with equal rights wherever you desire, including here in France.”

Then he added, “these days we are blessed with another privilege, a privilege that didn’t exist for generations of Jews – the privilege to join their brothers and sisters in their historic homeland of Israel.”

Ravid reports Hollande was not happy:

Hollande’s anger at Netanyahu was evident during the ceremony held Sunday evening following the march at the Grand Synagogue in Paris, an event attended by hundreds of members of the local Jewish community.

Hollande sat through most of the ceremony, but when Netanyahu’s turn at the podium arrived, the French president got up from his seat and made an early exit.

Can you spot the tension?

From left: President of the Central Jewish Consistory of France, Joel Mergui, PM Netanyahu, French President Hollande and French PM Valls. In back: Lieberman and Bennett. Paris, Jan. 11, 2015. (Photo: AFP)

From left: President of the Central Jewish Consistory of France, Joel Mergui, PM Netanyahu, French President Hollande and French PM Valls. In back: Lieberman and Bennett. Paris, Jan. 11, 2015. (Photo: AFP)

Haaretz reports Netanyahu will be setting up a special ministerial committee “to discuss steps to encourage immigration from France and from Europe in general.”

He wasn’t the only Israeli political leader to make a similar appeal. Yair Lapid invoked the Holocaust to compel European Jews to immigrate to Israel: “I don’t want to speak in terms of Holocaust, but … European Jewry must understand that there is just one place for Jews, and that is the State of Israel.”

Ali Abunimah points out at Electronic Intifada Israel has worked to exploit the French violence in several ways:

While Netanyahu was certainly playing to a domestic audience, his presence in Paris is also part of Israel’s swift move to capitalize on the horror in France on a number of fronts: to attack the Palestinians, to sharpen the dangerous discourse of a “war of civilizations” and to speed up the population transfer of Jews from Europe.

So far the Israeli message has been rebuffed most strongly by European Jews themselves:

The head of the largest advocate for the Jewish organizations and communities in Europe sharply criticized Israel’s call for increased immigration of the Continent’s Jews to Israel in the wake of the attacks in Paris.

Rabbi Menachem Margolin, director of the European Jewish Association, was quoted by the website nrg.co.il as saying that he regretted that “after every anti-Semitic attack in Europe, the Israeli government issues the same statements about the importance of aliyah [immigration to Israel], rather than employ every diplomatic and informational means at its disposal to strengthen the safety of Jewish life in Europe.”

NRG reported that Margolin said that Jews who have an attachment to Israel do not need this call, and they continue to emigrate to Israel in the wake of the events [like those] over the weekend in Paris. …”

The rabbi said that “every such Israeli campaign severely weakens and damages the Jewish communities that have the right to live securely wherever they are.”

About Adam Horowitz

Adam Horowitz is Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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321 Responses

  1. amigo
    January 12, 2015, 11:50 am

    “I don’t want to speak in terms of Holocaust, but” Lapid

    “I am not a racist , but, ” I feel your pain having to live with non Jews in France or in any of the EU countries who bombard you with antisemitism both in word and deed.”Come to your home for Jews only , where you will be safer. Where you can live in Jews only housing and drive on Jews only roads .We are working hard to create that for you , so why not join us and be part of the movement. Come one, come all.

    I need some deep holes dug for my new fence.Can you show me how netanyahu.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      January 12, 2015, 12:03 pm

      And of course, the second they arrive in ”Israel” they’ll be assailed with warnings of the ever–present danger posed to them by kids throwing stones, about how they’re surrounded on all sides by Arabs who want to push them into the sea etc.

      Israel is a safe haven when it suits propaganda purposes. When it does not, Israel is a tiny vulnerable strip of land in a sea of bloodthirsty Muslims.

      • Kay24
        January 12, 2015, 9:36 pm

        Love him or hate him, Erdogan the Turkish leader, calls a spade a spade:

        “Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, on Monday, lashed out at Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for attending a solidarity event in Paris.

        “Someone who fomented state terrorism with the death of 2,500 people in Gaza is now there [in Paris], waving at other world leaders and marching hand in hand with them,” said Erdogan, speaking at a conference against anti-Islam and racism.”

        http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.636736

      • Robert in Israel
        January 13, 2015, 4:06 am

        MDM, you raise a really good point. There is definitely an inconsistency between claiming that Israel offers its citizens security and that it suffers from a lack of security.

        However, as someone who lives in this real-life paradox, I can vouch for the fact that I feel greater security here as an openly practicing Jew than I would in France. The lack of security in Israel is more on the national level, even if it is individuals who are affected. By contrast, Jews living around the world in communities with large Muslim populations are feeling more and more uneasy with their daily routines and their personal security, while not fearing foreign invasion as such.

        So while I understand your intuitive reaction to scoff, in reality, both messages are correct: Israel suffers from national insecurity, but still offers more personal security than is available in countries with a growing internal Islamist threat.

      • amigo
        January 13, 2015, 12:41 pm

        However, as someone who lives in this real-life paradox, I can vouch for the fact that I feel greater security here as an openly practicing Jew than I would in France “robert in the zionist entity

        Have you lived in france???.

        Jews practice openly all over Europe and they will continue to long after zionism is dead you self serving zionist liar.

        ” Israel suffers from national insecurity, ”

        It certainly does and no surprise what with all those hordes of blood curdling Palestinian 10 yr old jihadis attacking your poor brave unarmed idf heroes and shoving them into the sea against their will and taking over their homes and kicking their families out into the street.
        Of course no mention of the land theft and the ethnic cleansing and oppression of Palestinians.Nah , that has nothing to do with your insecurity.I know that is not the type of national security you had in mind but I am Glad you brought it up , if unintentional.

        You got it bad fella.I am surprised you even have the courage to turn on your pc/laptop ?? in case a hamasoperative might pop up and delete you..

    • John O
      January 12, 2015, 12:28 pm

      No mention of the thousands and thousands of rockets that come whizzing out of Gaza every now and then, sending the entire population into the shelters and shutting down the airport.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        January 12, 2015, 2:11 pm

        Exactly.

        It’s amusing how Bibi keeps harping on about the threat posed to Jews by ”Islamic terrorism”, and in the same breath encourages them to move to a ‘country’ in the heart of the Islamic world.

        That makes sense, doesn’t it?

      • eGuard
        January 12, 2015, 2:34 pm

        John O, that’s not what they need to be told at the airport. They have read that before in the Jewish Agency merchandise. The Sderot Live War Cinema is part of the advertisement. Also they can join the IDF to shoot rockets into Gaza. A land of opportunities!

      • Blownaway
        January 13, 2015, 6:27 pm

        Thousands and thousands of rocekts out of Gaza? Seriously?

      • RoHa
        January 13, 2015, 8:44 pm

        Absolutely millions of rockets, Blownaway. Billions! Trillions! Israelis have to live underground all the time.

      • hophmi
        January 14, 2015, 1:24 pm

        “Jews practice openly all over Europe”

        You’re ill-informed. There isn’t a synagogue in Europe that doesn’t require police protection. Jews are told to avoid walking down the street with their heads covered, and in Paris, there are no-go neighborhoods for Jews.

        When I can enter the Grand Synagogue in Paris without going through security, or enter the one synagogue left in Vienna without going through twenty questions from the behind-bulletproof-glass guard about every aspect of my Judaic practice, or enter the orthodox shul in Berlin without going first through two plain clothes security guards outside, and a metal detector inside of a building just to get to the courtyard, or enter the synagogue in the Jewish quarter of Rome without a tour guide and a warning not to take any photographs for security purposes (because like the synagogue in Vienna, the synagogue in Rome was attacked in the 1980’s) then I’ll say that Jews can practice openly.

  2. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    January 12, 2015, 12:01 pm

    Nice of Bibi to encourage the old anti-Semitic suspicion about Jews’ loyalty – or lack thereof – to their nations. Mind you, both Bibi and his late predecessor Sharon have always reacted with glee to anti-Semitic attacks, especially in France, so this is nothing new.

    But Hollande was a fool to allow this event to be exploited by the likes of bibi. He should not have invited world leaders at all, and instead allowed the ordinary people of France to express their grief. What do the likes of Merkel or Cameron, let alone bibi, have to do with this?

    BTW was there any high level American present at the march? I don’t believe there was. Interesting.

    • Ageel
      January 12, 2015, 3:31 pm

      They all heard that Bibi was going to be there, so no one showed up.

    • gracie fr
      January 12, 2015, 4:12 pm

      …..Attorney General Eric Holder had been in Paris for meetings earlier in the day, but he did not attend the march, which left American Ambassador Jane Hartley as sole representative of the US…..

      http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/white-house-regret-paris-rally/384434/

    • Whizdom
      January 12, 2015, 7:32 pm

      Victoria Kagan Nuland was marching, an assistant sec at State. Surprised she still has a job.

    • Stephen Shenfield
      January 13, 2015, 6:35 am

      I agree. Doesn’t France have border controls? Why didn’t Hollande issue instructions that no Israelis should be allowed entry until after the march? Or better still he could have used the opportunity to arrest Netanyahu and put him on trial.

    • hophmi
      January 14, 2015, 1:25 pm

      “Nice of Bibi to encourage the old anti-Semitic suspicion about Jews’ loyalty – or lack thereof – to their nations. ”

      If France has antisemitic suspicions about the loyalty of French Jews, that’s their problem, not Bibi’s. The French should worry more about the safety of their Jews than about what Bibi says.

  3. eljay
    January 12, 2015, 12:02 pm

    Yair Lapid invoked the Holocaust to compel European Jews to immigrate to Israel: “I don’t want to speak in terms of Holocaust, but … European Jewry must understand that there is just one place for Jews, and that is the State of Israel.”

    Mr. Lapid is clearly not afraid to put Jews in their (one) place!

    I wonder what he would say if Mr. Hollande were to tell Jewish French citizens that there’s only one place for them and it’s not their homeland of France.

    Rabbi Menachem Margolin, director of the European Jewish Association … said that “every such Israeli campaign severely weakens and damages the Jewish communities that have the right to live securely wherever they are.”

    Mr. Margolin’s comment is an affront to his “one place for Jews” and to his leader, King Bibi. Such disrespect!

    • JeffB
      January 12, 2015, 2:37 pm

      @Eljay

      I wonder what he would say if Mr. Hollande were to tell Jewish French citizens that there’s only one place for them and it’s not their homeland of France.

      He’d say that he agrees that France isn’t their homeland, Israel is, and offer to help Hollande with an organized migration. Lapid is a zionist he believes in qibbuṣ galuyoth (the return of the exiles). You can no go one about Lapid being a supremacist rapist with a girl in the basement or whatever you like to throw around when Israelis assert that Israel is a nation like any other but there is no hypocrisy there.

      • eljay
        January 12, 2015, 6:17 pm

        >> JeffBeee: He’d say that he agrees that France isn’t their homeland, Israel is …

        IOW, he’d either be mistaken or a liar. Either way, he would be helping Hollande to deny Jewish French citizens their nationality and their true homeland.

        >> Lapid is a zionist …

        Which means he is a Jewish supremacist. Despite what you think, Jewish supremacism is no less unjust or immoral than any other form of supremacism.

        >> … when Israelis assert that Israel is a nation like any other but there is no hypocrisy there.

        There is much hypocrisy when Israel claims to be a nation like any other – a state of and for all of its citizens, immigrants, ex-pats and refugees, equally – but in word and deed is actually a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” – a state primarily of and for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews. (It is also a colonialist and expansionist state.)

      • Mooser
        January 12, 2015, 10:28 pm

        “He’d say that he agrees that France isn’t their homeland, Israel is, and offer to help Hollande with an organized migration.”

        Isn’t it nice how JeffyB just assumes Lapid should have control over all those French Jews lives. That’s right, Lapid and Hollande will just arrange it all between them, and the French Jews will just have to like it.

        That’s like “Exodus”, JeffyB, a Zionist wet-dream: The politicians of countries and Zionists arrange the ‘transfer’ an “organized migration” of Jewish populations.

      • oldgeezer
        January 13, 2015, 12:40 am

        That’s a very racist mouthful Jeff. Supremacist is an understatement for you.

      • Marnie
        January 13, 2015, 6:32 am

        Israel is a nation like apartheid South Africa – what a wonderful thing to be! And yes, you French Jews who are yearning to breath Jewish only air, drive on Jewish only roads, live in Jewish only settlements, never again have to look at a non-Jew again (well, that’s in the works, be patient, we’ll get there!). Join the Jews only party being held in your honor in Eretz Israel. Of course, your sons and daughters will belong to the state as soon as they graduate high school, hope that’s not a problem for you. We’ll have them indiscriminately kill women, children and the elderly every election cycle too, but that’s a small price to pay to live in the Jewish Disneyworld of the ME!

        Give up your life, your friends, your family – family schamly – you belong to the state of Israel. You are a Jew and there’s no other place for you except this land we are steadily acquiring, inch by bloody inch. If you don’t join us you’re dead to us, lost in the assimilation, a self-hating fake Jew, Muslim-loving antisemite.

      • Ellen
        January 13, 2015, 1:01 pm

        Lapid is a zionist he believes in qibbuṣ galuyoth (the return of the exiles). I do understand that qibbus galuyoth is a Zionist idea.

        But the idea and belief that a bunch of Jewish Europeans with ancestral roots all over the place (most with nothing to do with Semitic peoples of the middle east) makes me want to vomit.

        Sorry, I said it. But that is how I feel, I just ate dinner.

        The brainwashing is immense. Milokowsky (Beebs or whatever is name is) is a Pole and the Jews of Eastern Europe were a population (like many) that adopted Judaism in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.

        When the Roman Empire fell apart so did the social and economic life of many Roman territories, including Jerusalem. People emigrated for other opportunities. And from that part of the world, they mostly stayed in the Mediterranean and Middle East and North Africa. And by that time, conversions of peoples to Judaism was already unfolding in northern and eastern Europe, ie. the Caucuses.

        (Based on the size of the Jewish population of Eastern and Central Europe in the middle ages, the idea that all Jews came from Palestine is absolutely implausible, impossible!)

        There were probably more Jews (of the many Hebrew clans and tribes) BCE in what is now Yemen than there ever were in what we now call Palestine and Israel. (Which makes me wonder why didn’t the Zios go to Yemen?)

        In the mountains of Oman most all those villages that are many hundreds of years old are populated by tribes (in the real sense of the word) and clans that call themselves “Hebrew,” and they have Hebrew names. They adopted Ibadism (a small sect of Islam) a few hundred years ago. (They immigrated from Yemen after drought and irrigation failure. )

        Would European Zionism mythology allow qibbus galuyoth for these wonderful people who are true Semites and the familial decedents of the many Hebrew tribes?

        Well, they would never go anyway. They do not like to even leave their mountains for a day.

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 11:03 am

        “In the mountains of Oman most all those villages that are many hundreds of years old are populated by tribes (in the real sense of the word)”

        Thank you, Ellen. Much appreciated.

      • Mooser
        January 19, 2015, 2:14 pm

        “Either way, he would be helping Hollande to deny Jewish French citizens their nationality and their true homeland. “

        And isn’t there a name for what JeffyB wants Hollande to do? Isn’t it called a “crime against humanity” Or is it called “a great aliyah oops?

  4. Walid
    January 12, 2015, 12:02 pm

    Chief Rabbi doesn’t seem happy either with Netanyahu’s open invitation to the French Jews to leave for Israel. In an interview, he said he preferred that Jews remain in France and reminded the the common expression for a very happy person used to be “heureux comme un juif en France” and wished the situation would return as it was back then.

  5. a blah chick
    January 12, 2015, 12:19 pm

    You tell ’em, Bibi! Those people need to leave France which is 10% Muslim and go live in Israel which is nearly 17% Muslim. Makes sense to me!

    • Giles
      January 12, 2015, 4:48 pm

      Wow. That sure was racist a blah chick.

      • Eva Smagacz
        January 12, 2015, 5:07 pm

        Giles, a blah chick was being sarcastic

  6. JeffB
    January 12, 2015, 12:21 pm

    I’m not sure how this is bad for Netanyahu. So Hollande wanted a no meaningful Israeli presentation at the unity rally and Netanyahu made is clear that if he wanted to ban the leader of the Jewish state he wasn’t going to do it behind closed doors, he was going to do it openly and take the heat just like he did with the FN. Well good for Netanyahu!

    Real unity is not “you are free to be equal as long as you kiss my shoe you kike f*ck”. And if Hollande doesn’t get that to F-ing bad. Hollande has been at least hostile to the interests of of Jews and Israel for a long time. Its not Netanyahu’s job to make that comfortable or easy for him. Hopefully Le Pen or whomever from the UMP (Sarkozy?) replaces him in 2017. Hollande and his party are the ones who allowed things to get this out of hand.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      January 12, 2015, 2:16 pm

      ”Real unity is not “you are free to be equal as long as you kiss my shoe you kike f*ck”.”

      Unity? Why does Hollande have to express ‘unity’ with the leader of a minor Asian country with an appalling human rights record?

      Maybe, just maybe, Hollande was worried that Bibi would try to exploit a French tragedy to insult the French nation and shill for his colonialist squatter state? Nah, that would never happen, would it?

      ” Hopefully Le Pen or whomever from the UMP (Sarkozy?) replaces him in 2017.”

      Le Pen is from the same tradition of far right racists who would have been railing against the Jews last century. Now, their target is Muslims, but things change. These people are NOT your friends, but I guess for Zionists these days, anyone who shares their visceral hatred of Muslims is a friend of sorts.

      • JeffB
        January 12, 2015, 6:00 pm

        @Maximus

        Unity? Why does Hollande have to express ‘unity’ with the leader of a minor Asian country with an appalling human rights record?

        Heck if I know. When a few Americans shoot stuff up we don’t hold big international rallies. Why Hollande wanted leaders from all over the world to hold hands and march is beyond me. But it made the French people feel better and I guess that’s reason enough. But I’m ticked because if you are inviting everyone else invite Israel.

        Le Pen is from the same tradition of far right racists who would have been railing against the Jews last century.

        True. And now that we have Israel they are on our side, “Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” The same way that last century (at least till the 50s) the hard left liked Jews now they work to throw them back into slavery.

        These people are NOT your friends

        (1) They back Israel
        (2) No need for a #2

        They are our friends. That’s what it means to be a friend.

        , but I guess for Zionists these days, anyone who shares their visceral hatred of Muslims is a friend of sorts

        No. There are countries like Egypt and Jordan which are Muslim and friendly. There are South American countries that hate muslims and also hate Israel. Its about being willing to see Jews fully as equals. Just imagine a French president the next time he was asked some development in Israel fully acknowledging it and saying something like, “Netanyahu doesn’t tell me where to put buildings in Lyon I don’t tell him where to put building in Jerusalem. Its none of my damn business”. Or “”Netanyahu doesn’t tell me what the French criminal codes should be. I don’t tell him which prisons to release or not. Its none of my damn business.”

        That’s what going to be special about Le Pen. Her goal is to govern France not Israel.

    • Mooser
      January 12, 2015, 2:22 pm

      “you are free to be equal as long as you kiss my shoe you kike f*ck”.”

      JeffyB, I notice you have that phrase in quotes. Who are you quoting, JeffyB? As far as I can see, the only one saying that, is you. Do you think putting mendacious quotes around it releases you from responsibility?

      • Philemon
        January 12, 2015, 8:41 pm

        “Do you think putting mendacious quotes around it releases you from responsibility?”

        Why, yes! Of course, he does. JeffB could not take responsibility if you presented it to him on a plate with water-cress surround. He’s like that.

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 11:07 am

        “if you presented it to him on a plate with water-cress surround.”

        Yes, it’s very easy to see how deeply felt and how well-thought-out “JeffyB”s arguments are.

    • pjdude
      January 12, 2015, 3:29 pm

      god your bigoted a******** so because he didn’t want to risk politics intervening which it did because netanyahoo decided to exploit the tragedy for politcal means like a sick bastard its means the french are mean. i didn’t see anything about france wanting no israeli presence. they just didn’t want your ahole of a prime minister there.

      • JeffB
        January 12, 2015, 4:34 pm

        @pjdude

        because [Hollande] didn’t want to risk politics

        Of course Hollande wanted to risk politics. He wanted a big march to cover up the fact that his policies led to the worst massacre in French history. They dropped the ball repeatedly on this case. So he wanted to look presidential being surrounded by world leaders.

        But at the same time he wanted to quietly shaft Israel. I didn’t say the French are mean, I said that Hollande is a jerk.

      • jimby
        January 12, 2015, 6:09 pm

        @JeffB, good god man, you never heard of the St Barthomew’s Day Masscre or the Albagensian heresy? A dozen Islamaphobes a few Arabs and a couple of Jews are assassinated and it’s the worst massacre in history. Is it that the victims of the other massacres weren’t Jews so they don’t count. Pathetic

      • straightline
        January 12, 2015, 7:12 pm

        Here’s a wikipedia page on French massacres.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_France

      • Mooser
        January 12, 2015, 10:37 pm

        “the fact that his policies led to the worst massacre in French history.”

        When you need facts, well documented, incontrovertible facts, JeffyB’s your man!

    • Shingo
      January 12, 2015, 3:57 pm

      I’m not sure how this is bad for Netanyahu.

      I am not sure you cannot see it. He’s now persona no grata with not only foreign leaders but also within the Jewish community in France and likely many other parts of the world.

      Real unity is not “you are free to be equal as long as you kiss my shoe you kike f*ck”.

      No it more like this is about France and the unity of France’s society – it’s not about your you narcissistic, opportunitistic, sleazy f*ck.

      Hollande has been at least hostile to the interests of of Jews and Israel for a long time.

      How so? Because he kiss Bibbi’s shoe? Netaynhau is a political lepper. No one wants to be seen with him, or have anything to do with him and that is entirely his own fault.

      • JeffB
        January 12, 2015, 4:30 pm

        @Shingo

        He’s now persona no grata with not only foreign leaders

        Yeah I’ve been hearing for years from you how the contact is over for him. And yet somehow meeting after meeting he is there. If he were untouchable Hollande would have just told he can’t come. It was Hollande who had the problem with his “unity” being shattered, just like with the FN.

        I get that you want Netaynhau to be weak here. But he isn’t. This was a simple test. Hollande bluffed about whether he could afford a showdown Netaynhau raised and Hollande mucked.

        Hollande has record low approval ratings. Netaynhau is sailing to easy reelection. So no.

        As for why Hollande is bad for Jews because he has sides with Palestinians against the Jews.

      • Shingo
        January 12, 2015, 8:05 pm

        Yeah I’ve been hearing for years from you how the contact is over for him. And yet somehow meeting after meeting he is there.

        Meeting after what meeting? Bibbi doesn’t get invited anywhere except to Washington, thanks to the most expensive rent-a-crowd paid for by his wealthy benefactors.

        If he were untouchable Hollande would have just told he can’t come.

        That’s exactly what he did dufus, but Bibbi being Bibbi refused to take the hint and rocket up anyway. And now Israel is reporting his visit as being a PR disaster.

        I get that you are desperate to defend Netaynhau here. But he’s finished. This was a simple test. The guy is political kryptonite.

        Hollande has record low approval ratings. Netaynhau is sailing to easy reelection. So no.

        Wrong.

        Netaynhau’s approval ratings are in the gutter.

      • amigo
        January 12, 2015, 7:22 pm

        “And yet somehow meeting after meeting he is there” jeff b.

        He gate crashed .Did you not read the article.

        He has been persona non grata at the Iran negotiations and his welcome is worn out in Washington evidenced by the notable reduction is his presence at the White house.

        He is a pariah jeff. You should be able to understand that

      • amigo
        January 12, 2015, 8:15 pm

        “Netaynhau is sailing to easy reelection. So no.” jeff b

        Yeah , and he is sailing right into the history books as the PM who did most to destroy Zionism.

        A truly great legacy.

    • RoHa
      January 12, 2015, 6:36 pm

      “Hollande has been at least hostile to the interests of of Jews and Israel for a long time. ”

      I don’t follow French politics, so I don’t know how Hollande has shown hostility to the interests of French Jews. Could you elaborate, please?

      Hostility to the interests of Israel is, of course, a different matter.

    • American
      January 13, 2015, 11:24 am

      jeffb…..” Hopefully Le Pen or whomever from the UMP (Sarkozy?) replaces him in 2017. Hollande and his party are the ones who allowed things to get this out of hand. – ”

      LOL….the stupidy of the zios never ceases to amaze.
      Elect Le Pen and you will get your ..” long as you kiss my shoe you kike f*ck”.
      The Muslims may be the main meal but the Jews will be the desert.

      • JeffB
        January 13, 2015, 4:30 pm

        @American

        What would be the reason to turn on the Jews. Her policy is to implement the idea of a moo-culture for France. She uses American immigration as an example and probably would want to use American Judaism (which excluding Orthodox is essentially a Jewish flavored Protestant denomination). How does harming Jews help her?

        Hollande while claiming to be friendly is very hostile to Jewish interests. Le Pen while claiming to be indifferent is friendly. If I were French I’d take my chances with her.

      • American
        January 14, 2015, 10:29 am

        effB
        January 13, 2015, 4:30 pm

        @American

        What would be the reason to turn on the Jews. Her policy is to implement the idea of a moo-culture for France.
        ”>>>>>>>>>>>

        You think far right ‘ purity’ nationalist don’t consider Jews to be as alien to their nation as Muslims?
        The minute the Zionist and Israel shit stirring against Arabs and Islam is no longer useful to their agenda they will get rid of the zios and Jews too.
        You dont understand the non Jewish racist mind because in your own delusional and narcissistic racism you dont see how they look at you the same way they look at semite Muslims.

        You are being had, but carry on, pay no attention to the warnings, just dont whine later when they go after you too..

  7. amigo
    January 12, 2015, 12:31 pm

    Does anyone know what Abass,s reply was when he was asked to stay away.Did he decide to go because nietandyahu did.

    Btw, was Abbas the only PA rep and how did netanyahu get to sit next to Hollande.I wonder if he pushed his way there. Also , note his two “looneytenants” are right there in the second row.Who controlled the seating arrangements.The Israeli Foreign Affairs minister.

    • Walid
      January 12, 2015, 12:56 pm

      Abbas was invited by France only when it was realized that there was no stopping Netanyahu from attending. France did it to create some kind of balance. He should not have attended, especially in light of remaining silent almost throughout the assault on the WB and the bombing of Gaza and after the killing of the 2200 Gazans.

      Le Monde reported on the differing opinions in the Israeli press about Netanyahu’s unwelcomed visit. The Jerusalem Post wrote that he could have told the Jews that “the doors were open in Israel without slapping France in the face” and these events in France have restarted the debate on Zionism and its relationship on the diaspora within Israeli society.

      • a blah chick
        January 12, 2015, 1:04 pm

        “The Jerusalem Post wrote that he could have told the Jews that “the doors were open in Israel without slapping France in the face”

        Unfortunately that “slapping” plays well with his constituents.

      • amigo
        January 12, 2015, 1:52 pm

        He should not have attended, especially in light of remaining silent almost throughout the assault on the WB and the bombing of Gaza and after the killing of the 2200 Gazans.Walid.

        My first reaction was to disagree with you based on the sure knowledge that he would be villified and accused of supporting the attackers.But of course on reflection , he would have come out much better as he could show he co operated with the French and then he could make a public condemnation of the attacks .A win win for the Palestinian case and another nail in the coffin for netanyahu and his attempts to change the French vote on Palestinian Statehood.

        I can see why netanyahu picked lie-berman as his FM.Neither of them has a clue about diplomacy .

    • a blah chick
      January 12, 2015, 1:02 pm

      My understanding is that the French did not want the Butcher there because they felt it would be interjecting the I/P issue and they did not want that headache. Also they told the Israelis that if they did come they (the French) would invite Abbas to be “fair.” Abbas, good little pet that he is, said that was okay. But when the Butcher found out that his political rivals were going to exploit the dead he wanted in on that act. The French went through with their threat to invite Abbas as well.

      No doubt French Jewish leadership felt too intimidated to tell him and his security detail to go pound sand

      • Walid
        January 12, 2015, 3:22 pm

        “But when the Butcher found out that his political rivals were going to exploit the dead he wanted in on that act. ”

        ABC, he didn’t need to bother, CNN covered that angle for him almost non-stop during a full 24 hours. It was Israel this and Israel that. Netanyahu stole the show from poor Hollande.

      • gracie fr
        January 12, 2015, 4:31 pm

        Indeed, everything “fell into place” when Benjamin Netanyahu got wind that Avigdor Lieberman would be going to Paris in a covert (not really) “one-step-ahead” campaign maneuver in order to smooze bi-national French Jewish voters into his camp in view of upcoming elections March 17. In the wake of last week’s violent attacks on Jewish victims, Bibi repeated again, I always say to Jews wherever they are — come to Israel and make it your home….. we care about your safety.”

        That triggered a war of words with Hollande, who slammed Netanyahu for turning the visit into a campaigning opportunity ahead of elections . “Netanyahu came to France to campaign,” Hollande said in private remarks leaked by a French newspaper.

  8. Whizdom
    January 12, 2015, 12:43 pm

    The Israeli press is making a big deal about a video circulating showing Netanyahu “wriggling” to move from second row to front row.

    http://www.voanews.com/content/reu-netanyahu-out-of-step-with-french-leaders-at-paris-rally/2594765.html

    A video posted on Facebook, the news footage mockingly set to the Looney Tunes cartoon music, showed Netanyahu manoeuvring his way to the front of the rally with the help of several bodyguards, allowing him to be photographed arm-in-arm with other leaders, including French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

    Also noted that Hollande walked out before Netanyahu gave his speech at the Synagogue

    • a blah chick
      January 12, 2015, 2:28 pm

      Then after pushing his way to the front he spent a lot a time looking for snipers on roofs.

    • amigo
      January 12, 2015, 4:02 pm

      “The Israeli press is making a big deal about a video circulating showing Netanyahu “wriggling” to move from second row to front row.”Whizdom

      Imagine this childish maniac has his fingers on 3 to 4 hundred nukes.

      God help us all.

      • Mooser
        January 12, 2015, 10:41 pm

        “Imagine this childish maniac has his fingers on 3 to 4 hundred nukes.”

        Oh, I imagine there are, if not lots, more than a few Israeli IDF Officers who have the necessary rank to launch tactical nuclear weapons under some circumstances.

    • Eva Smagacz
      January 12, 2015, 5:39 pm
  9. atime forpeace
    January 12, 2015, 12:57 pm

    The untouchables

    The Paris prosecutor’s office has said it has opened an investigation into the comedian Dieudonné M’bala M’bala, after a Facebook post in which he said “I feel like Charlie Coulibaly”.

    The post from Dieudonné, who has faced allegations of anti-Semitism for a gesture that many say mimics a Nazi salute, has since been taken down.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/12/french-comedian-dieudonne-charlie-coulibaly-prosecutor

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      January 12, 2015, 2:18 pm

      So when can we expect Western leaders to join in a gesture of solidarity for Dieudonne’s freedom of speech? Or is freedom of speech only allowed for those they agree with?

    • Walid
      January 12, 2015, 3:26 pm

      Not just allegations, atime for peace, but actual judgements and fines of close to $100,000 that he’s not paying pending various appeals.

  10. David Doppler
    January 12, 2015, 1:27 pm

    International Jewry needs to send a clear message to the Israeli people: make peace now! There is no good endgame for “the Jews” in a cathartic war of civilizations, despite the strong beliefs of the Israeli right-wing to the contrary. Hollande’s stony face is prelude to what? Obama’s similar expressions when photographed with Netanyahu beg the same question.

    Here’s what I see: Netanyahu spending all of the goodwill of the Jewish people like a drunken sailor, continuously inciting “the West” to perpetual war with Islam, continuously seeking to identify “the West” with Israel and Israel with “the West” in the eyes of both the Muslim and western worlds, while continuously oppressing the Palestinian people, while blaming them for their own suffering, while continuously claiming the victimhood of the Jewish people at the hands of everyone, including the West, to justify and indeed proclaim “most moral” a long series of racist and fascistic actions and tendencies.

    Word was that Netanyahu originally planned to stay away, as requested by Hollande, but changed his mind when Bennett and Lieberman announced they would attend: the Israeli right wing thus turning France’s effort at unity in tragedy into right-wing Israeli political and electoral theater: Bennett-Lieberman-Netanyahu in a contest to show who will escalate the failed Neocon/Likud policies of the right wing faster, with louder chest thumping, and more violence inflicted with less nuance?

    Who else is to constrain the Israeli right wing?

    Machiavelli advised that leaders should be both beloved and feared by their people, but, if they must choose, fear was more important than love. Under Netanyahu, whatever leadership role Israel could claim in the US and much of the rest of the West is now based solely on fear: fear among Congresspersons that failure to follow AIPAC diktat will bring on them unwelcome organized Jewish opposition in their next election. Fear among academics that criticism of Israeli policies will result in personal smears such as were leveled at Norman Finkelstein and Walt, Mearsheimer and Salaita. Fear among journalists that publication of criticism of Israel will become “career-limiting events.” The limits of the power of this fear are much more easily perceived by Diaspora Jews, whose share of the love the Jewish people have enjoyed in the West is being thus squandered. Love following divorce is replaced by something else (see Hollande’s stony face for prelude). Use (abuse) of power to instill fear, in the absence of love or at least recognition of legitimacy, is what American and Western divided and limited government (invented after and with the benefit of Machiavelli’s insights) was designed to control. Right-wingers lack the nuance to understand that basic lesson of history.

    But Israelis appear to be under the influence of these right-wing fear-mongers, and some form of check-and-balance needs to be exercised immediately. This election is of fundamental, historical importance. A continuation on this rightward trajectory risks catastrophe.

    • JeffB
      January 12, 2015, 1:58 pm

      @David

      Not happening. Diaspora Jews are Zionists. Saying sell out Israel to preserve the good will towards the diaspora religion of Judaism is not a sensible position. That’s like telling Christians to sell out Christ to preserve Easter. There are exceptions but the diaspora mostly supports Bennett-Lieberman-Netanyahu. Especially Bennett and Netanyahu in America.

      Israel doesn’t have a leadership role in the USA. Israel is a vassal of the USA.

      There is no love of the Jewish people in the west if there was Zionism never would have been necessary. Israel either makes it and becomes a fully normalized state in the region or it turns out that mortally wouldn’t by the holocaust Judaism went home to die and after Israel there is no Judaism. I don’t know what catastrophe you are picturing but none are possibly worse than the effects of destroying Israel.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        January 12, 2015, 2:20 pm

        ”Israel either makes it and becomes a fully normalized state in the region”

        Meanwhile, in the real world….

      • tree
        January 12, 2015, 3:34 pm

        Saying sell out Israel to preserve the good will towards the diaspora religion of Judaism is not a sensible position. That’s like telling Christians to sell out Christ to preserve Easter.

        Well, there you have it. And you heard it first from JeffB. Judaism is dead and Israel worship has replaced it. God has left the building. All hail the golden calf!

      • pjdude
        January 12, 2015, 3:34 pm

        first of neither Israel nor the US is a fuedal state so niether can be leige or vassal. and how is Israel a vassal of the US. it get to force the US to act against its own interests for Israel’s benefit. that doesn’t sound like a vassal to me. destroying Israel is the best thing that could happen for everyone. i fail to see how continuing to show just how violant jewish people have shown they can be is in their interest. maybe if you zionist every tried peace you’d have a point but they don’t and you don’t

      • Shingo
        January 12, 2015, 3:42 pm

        Diaspora Jews are Zionists.

        Not really. At best the ones that identify as Zionists are caffetteria Zionists. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in the Disaspora and Bibbi wouldn’t be doing the hard sell.

        That’s like telling Christians to sell out Christ to preserve Easter.

        I thought Israel was not merely a religious construct, but you are now insisting it is.

      • eljay
        January 12, 2015, 3:53 pm

        JeffBeee: There is no love of the Jewish people in the west if there was Zionism never would have been necessary.

        Zio-supremacism was not and is not necessary. It was and remains an unjust and immoral response to past injustices committed against Jews.

        >> Israel either makes it … or … after Israel there is no Judaism.

        That’s very dramatic-sounding, but Judaism existed before Israel, Judaism exists alongside Israel and Judaism will continue to exist after Israel.

      • justicewillprevail
        January 12, 2015, 4:22 pm

        Wow, your bull-in-a-china-shop approach to debate, Jeffy, is spectacularly offensively crass, insensitive and utterly oblivious to the political and cultural realities of the modern world. No wonder you fling around the mini-Yahoo rhetoric so indiscriminately. More red-in-the-face incoherent hysteria from the bar stool – nobody is talking about ‘kikes’ except you – and the most ludicrous assertions unwarranted by anything that has been said. Go have a lie down, and then go for some counselling.

      • Walker
        January 12, 2015, 5:17 pm

        Israel doesn’t have a leadership role in the USA. Israel is a vassal of the USA.

        The proof of that is that whenever an American President visits Israel, 90% of the Knesset signs pledges to do whatever he wants, regardless of the wishes of the current government.

        I can’t believe you’re saying that Israel plays the same role for Jews that Christ does for Christians.

      • Shingo
        January 12, 2015, 7:56 pm

        The proof of that is that whenever an American President visits Israel, 90% of the Knesset signs pledges to do whatever he wants, regardless of the wishes of the current government.

        Rubbish. In fact, every time Biden visit Israel, they spit in his face by announcing more settlements.

      • RoHa
        January 12, 2015, 8:58 pm

        Psst, Shingo. Walid is being sarky.

      • Mooser
        January 13, 2015, 11:52 am

        “And you heard it first from JeffB. Judaism is dead and Israel worship has replaced it.”

        Oh, JeffyB doesn’t hesitate to use the Jewish religion as an excuse for anything when he feels like it.

        And I’ve never seen anybody so worried about being “normalized”. Gives me the creeps. Anybody who makes a big show of being “normal” usually isn’t, you know what I mean?

      • seanmcbride
        January 13, 2015, 11:59 am

        Mooser,

        “Oh, JeffyB doesn’t hesitate to use the Jewish religion for an excuse for anything when he feels like it.”

        The 55 member organizations of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations appear to be on the same page with JeffB, along with the entire US Congress.

        Judaism=Zionism.

        Is it possible to turn this around? If so, how?

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 11:15 am

        “I can’t believe you’re saying that Israel plays the same role for Jews that Christ does for Christians.”

        Oh, very much so. As a matter of fact, when JeffyB introduced this hypothesis, as I recall (I could word-search his ouvre but… ) JeffyB was almost mathematical about it:

        Holocaust = Crucifixion

        Israel-Zionism = Redemption/Salvation

        Now, that’s assimilation for you!

    • Mooser
      January 12, 2015, 2:28 pm

      “International Jewry needs to send a clear message to the Israeli people”

      What a great idea, David! And if “International Jewry” (sic) was anything but the invention of anti-Semites, why, it maybe could happen!

      BTW, where does “International Jewry” have it’s headquarters? Those guys are gonna hear from me. Wait til I look up their e-mail.

      • seanmcbride
        January 12, 2015, 2:48 pm

        Mooser,

        “What a great idea, David! And if “International Jewry” (sic) was anything but the invention of anti-Semites, why, it maybe could happen!”

        Jewish and Israeli establishment organizations and publications use the expression “world Jewry” all the time. Google it. They keep that meme fully charged up from decade to decade.

        Judaism probably explains their attachment to this belief — the Torah-based notion that all Jews worldwide comprise a single mystical collective — one that is often defined in ethnic and/or nationalist terms.

        This is typical (from the Forward):

        “Israel Approves ‘Revolutionary’ World Jewry Initiative” http://forward.com/articles/199269/israel-approves-revolutionary-world-jewry-initiati/

        Try browsing:

        [Google; “world jewry” http://www.google.com/#q=“world+jewry” ]

        (Once again, WordPress can’t handle some basic URLs for Google search expressions — you’ll have to plug that phrase into Google yourself to see the hits.)

      • Mooser
        January 12, 2015, 10:44 pm

        “Judaism probably explains their attachment to this belief”

        Of course, nobody is questioning that.
        But look, I take it all back. If you can find any way, any process which can make the weight of “World Jewry” felt in Israel, I beg you to use it.

  11. pabelmont
    January 12, 2015, 1:37 pm

    Leaders understand that it is important to SAY the right things (about press freedom, here) but wholly unimportant what their countries DO about the issue. USA preaches human rights but ignores them. Israel ditto. (No light between these countries on that point.)

    People scream against Islamic fundamentalists and others who terrorize in the name of Islam, but are quiet/silent on the issue of that most “clear and present” danger (and threat), climate change, which threatens all mankind with extinction or something close to.

    “We refuse to act” say the governments and oligarchs, condemning all future generations to horrors far worse than the Holocaust (at least numerically). And no-one says “boo”.

    Charlie Hebdo, what are you saying about global warming?

  12. seafoid
    January 12, 2015, 2:16 pm

    “the state of Israel is your home”

    Imagine coming home to see someone butchering a child , then turning around and shaking your hand.

    • Bob_Salad
      January 12, 2015, 9:15 pm

      “Imagine coming home to see someone butchering a child, then turning around and shaking your hand”

      Now that’s satire. Can you doodle?

  13. amigo
    January 12, 2015, 2:33 pm

    Insulting other nations is a way of life with nietandyahu.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/9/israeli-pm-benjamin-netanyahu-backs-out-nelson-man/?page=all

    http://mondoweiss.net/2010/03/israeli-insult-to-biden-should-have-been-no-surprise

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/10/orwellian-purification-jerusalem

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said conference attendees were engaging in “staggering examples of European hypocrisy,” continuing, “It seems that too many in Europe, on whose soil six million Jews were slaughtered, have learned nothing. But we in Israel, we’ve learned.” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/12/palestinian-negotiations-leadership#sthash.upV8aRGa.dpuf

  14. amigo
    January 12, 2015, 2:52 pm

    See first photo.

    Look at that facial expression.

    Hopefully some day he will strike (involuntarily ) the same pose on his way to the hague.

    I can dream.

    • John O
      January 12, 2015, 3:10 pm

      Not to mention the arms and hands. Slack, lifeless, past the end of his attention span…

  15. eljay
    January 12, 2015, 2:53 pm

    >> amigo: Insulting other nations is a way of life with nietandyahu.

    “It seems that too many in Europe, on whose soil six million Jews were slaughtered, have learned nothing. But we in Israel, we’ve learned.”

    Yes, King Bibi, you have learned. You’ve learned how to terrorize, ethnically cleanse, steal, occupy, colonize, destroy, torture and kill. And you’ve spent the past 60+ years honing your skills and expanding the size of your supremacist state.

    You’re the abused child who learned the wrong leson: Instead of choosing to support justice, accountability and equality, you’ve chosen to steal, rape and kill.

    And, it seems, you’ve chosen to boast about your “accomplishments”.

  16. lysias
    January 12, 2015, 3:19 pm

    The Forward: How Bibi Tried To Make Paris All About Him:

    For those who haven’t been following the story, Netanyahu crashed the national solidarity event despite President Hollande’s explicit request that he stay at home. Then, after the VIP reception at the Elysee Palace, cameras for a local media outlet caught him elbowing aside a female French minister as he tried to jump the queue for the bus that would transport the group to the starting point of the march. Finding himself relegated to the second row at the march itself, he shoved aside the the president of Mali and inserted himself in the front row, one down from Hollande himself and within eyesight of Angela Merkel.

    . . .

    But in a photograph of the capacity crowd in the synagogue sanctuary tweeted by foreign ministry spokesperson Ofir Gindelman, one can see only French flags, with not a single Israeli flag visible. This is a remarkable contrast with U.S. synagogues, where the pulpit is usually decorated with American and Israeli flags. But the piece de resistance came immediately after Netanyahu had finished delivering his speech, and had already turned his back on the crowd to leave. Before he could step down from the bimah, one of the Jewish leaders grabbed a microphone and launched into a spontaneous rendition of the French national anthem. Not Hatikvah, but the Marseillaise. Within seconds the entire audience had joined in, singing loudly and emotionally.

    Netanyahu was forced to stand there, facing the yarmulke-wearing French Jews after only just finished having told them that their true home was Israel. Were his lips pressed together because he did not know the words? He did not look pleased at all.

    • amigo
      January 12, 2015, 3:49 pm

      “Before he could step down from the bimah, one of the Jewish leaders grabbed a microphone and launched into a spontaneous rendition of the French national anthem ” Lysias

      excuse my French but that is f—ing brilliant.Thanks.

    • Walid
      January 12, 2015, 3:55 pm

      “Before he could step down from the bimah, one of the Jewish leaders grabbed a microphone and launched into a spontaneous rendition of the French national anthem. Not Hatikvah, but the Marseillaise.”

      That last bit of news just made my day.

    • American
      January 12, 2015, 4:23 pm

      ROTFLMAO ……..that is funny!

    • RoHa
      January 12, 2015, 6:41 pm

      So French Jews think they are French? That has to be good news.

      • Mooser
        January 12, 2015, 10:53 pm

        “Before he could step down from the bimah, one of the Jewish leaders grabbed a microphone and launched into a spontaneous rendition of the French national anthem. Not Hatikvah, but the Marseillaise.”

        OMFG! Just like the scene in “Casa Blanca”

      • seafoid
        January 13, 2015, 1:42 am

        Milikovsky spoke to the congregation and it had to be translated. So that means that the dog whistles were less effective .Hard to translate Zionist bullshit into the language of reason.

        the memes are very interesting. Zionsim is so nuts.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge8h8XCeaGs

        And then the crowd start singing but no hatikva

      • RoHa
        January 13, 2015, 4:28 am

        I noticed that at the end of the speech there was a small claque cheering and waving a couple of Israeli flags, but what seemed to be most of the congregation just stood around looking unenthusiastic.

      • Mooser
        January 13, 2015, 12:02 pm

        “I noticed that at the end of the speech there was a small claque cheering and waving a couple of Israeli flags, but what seemed to be most of the congregation just stood around looking unenthusiastic.”

        RoHa, what could they do? Grab the flags from them? Slap them? Start yelling at them? Can’t do that, it would outrage tribal unity. Can’t let political differences tear us apart.

    • ckg
      January 12, 2015, 10:51 pm

      Finding himself relegated to the second row at the march itself, he shoved aside the president of Mali and inserted himself in the front row, one down from Hollande himself and within eyesight of Angela Merkel.

      Here is the video, with Looney Tunes music:

  17. Shingo
    January 12, 2015, 3:34 pm

    Even more pathetic is that Netanyahu had a picture of the march photoshopped to get rid of Abbas and replace him with the Queen of Jordan.
    http://www.moonofalabama.org/images4/Paris-Merkeljordan.jpg

    • ckg
      January 12, 2015, 4:15 pm

      Ha. That’s even worse than the haredi newspaper HaMevasser photoshopping the female world leaders out of the photo. The photoshop left Abbas in the picture but got rid of Merkel and others. http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2015/01/haredi-newspaper-removes-female-world-leaders-from-iconic-paris-unity-march-photo-234.html

      • Walid
        January 14, 2015, 8:18 am
    • Walid
      January 12, 2015, 5:06 pm

      Shingo, doesn’t look to me as if the photo was played with. In another wide-angled photo, we can see to the right of Abbas, King Abdullah II and next to him is David Oglu behind which appears the faint presence of Queen Rania. Next to Oglu is Poroshenko and next to him is half a picture of Lebanon’s Bassil (he’s the shortest in the whole lineup).

      Your photo is taken from another angle after they started walking, Queen Rania appears at front and behind her is the white head of Abbas and next to him is the tall European before Merkel. So I think it’s mostly about the angle from which the photo was taken that shows Queen Rania appearing to replace Abbas.

      The one that was notorious for having doctored a photo was Mubarak in a photo with Obama, Netanyahu and Abbas in which he was walking behind them all but he had the photo doctored to make himself walking at the head of the pack with Obama and the rest walking behind him.

      • RoHa
        January 12, 2015, 6:44 pm

        All for freedom of speech, freedom of the press, of course.

      • NickJOCW
        January 14, 2015, 7:43 am

        Walid, I know little about these things but does the perceived offence lie in publishing a picture of a female? If so, removing Merkel could have been little more than not walking under a ladder.

      • Walid
        January 14, 2015, 8:20 am

        “Walid, I know little about these things but does the perceived offence lie in publishing a picture of a female?

        Nick, I don’t know about the erasing of a female figure out of a photo, that’s an idiosyncrasy of one of the Jewish sects, as ckg wrote above. But these don’t have an exclusivity on unconventional stuff, some Muslims sects have some of their own, such as covering their women to look like ninjas, or not letting them drive cars.

      • NickJOCW
        January 14, 2015, 9:20 am

        Thanks, Walid, I suspected it might be just one of those odd things odd people do and quite without further significance.

    • ckg
      January 12, 2015, 8:48 pm

      @Shingo: The Ottawa Citizen published the identical photo in higher resolution, suggesting that Walid’s assessment is correct.

      http://ottawacitizen.com/news/world/photos-unity-rally-in-paris-and-around-the-world

  18. Sycamores
    January 12, 2015, 3:47 pm

    here’s a hilarious piece from http://blogs.forward.com/forward-thinking/212583/how-bibi-tried-to-make-paris-all-about-him/#.VLQtCL3XN_s.twitter

    That evening, after a meeting with Jewish community leaders (who later said they wished Netanyahu would stop telling the Jews of France that they should all move to Israel), Netanyahu gave a speech at Paris’s main synagogue. The crowd greeted him with enthusiastic cheers and listened warmly as he told them that their true home was in Israel, which was waiting with open arms to embrace them.

    But in a photograph of the capacity crowd in the synagogue sanctuary tweeted by foreign ministry spokesperson Ofir Gindelman, one can see only French flags, with not a single Israeli flag visible. This is a remarkable contrast with U.S. synagogues, where the pulpit is usually decorated with American and Israeli flags. But the piece de resistance came immediately after Netanyahu had finished delivering his speech, and had already turned his back on the crowd to leave. Before he could step down from the bimah, one of the Jewish leaders grabbed a microphone and launched into a spontaneous rendition of the French national anthem. Not Hatikvah, but the Marseillaise. Within seconds the entire audience had joined in, singing loudly and emotionally.

    • Walid
      January 12, 2015, 4:01 pm

      “Before he could step down from the bimah, one of the Jewish leaders grabbed a microphone and launched into a spontaneous rendition of the French national anthem. Not Hatikvah, but the Marseillaise. ”

      Loved it so much that I enjoyed reading it again over and over. Bravo to the Jews of France.

      • seafoid
        January 12, 2015, 4:29 pm

        Vive la difference

      • a blah chick
        January 12, 2015, 4:43 pm

        The Marseillaise is the greatest national anthem, ever.

        And the Butcher should not have been allowed to speak.

      • Walid
        January 12, 2015, 6:18 pm

        Seafoid, this faux-pas by Netanyahu brings to mind another faux-pas committed by an even more important and imposing man, Charles de Gaulle while on an official 2-week visit to inaugurate the French pavillon at the EXPO 67 World’s Fair in Montreal. After a week of touring and dining and pavillon opening in Quebec, and making several speeches reminding the people of Quebec of their French roots, he was invited to make a speech to the public from the balcony of Montreal’s city hall. His historic speech was full of innuendos encouraging the province of Quebec to proceed with their separation from Canada and to start working actively with France. He closed his speech by saying “Vive le Quebec” that elated the mostly French-Canadian people so he repeated the phrase “Vive le Quebec” but added the word “Libre” and the end of it and loudly stressing the word “Libre”. The crowd went crazy. “Vive le Quebec Libre” was the slogan of the separatist movement that was planting bombs all over Montreal. De Gaul was told by the Prime Minister’s office that his conduct was not acceptable and he had no business meddling in Canadian politics. He was practically thrown out of the country and his planned second week in Ottawa cancelled. A waiting French military plane flew him out of Montreal the next morning without an official ceremony.

        Holland should have done the same with Netanyahu.

      • RoHa
        January 12, 2015, 6:48 pm

        I remember that incident from when it happened. As I recall it, PM Lester Pearson said “Quebec is already free”.

      • RoHa
        January 12, 2015, 8:14 pm

        “The Marseillaise is the greatest national anthem, ever.”

        I haven’t heard them all, but it is far and away the best and most stirring of those I have heard. Most of the others are pretty dreary.

        The Japanese anthem is particularly grim. (Surprisingly so, when one thinks of the rumours that it is actually an ancient Korean drinking song. Perhaps a bunch of drunk Koreans could make it sound a bit more lively.)

        “God Save The Queen” usually sounds like a dirge. The lyrics pick up as it goes along. 4th verse includes

        “Lord make the nations see
        That men should brothers be
        And form one family
        The wide world over”

        Which contrasts oddly with the final verse.

        “Lord grant that Marshal Wade
        May by thy mighty aid
        Victory bring
        May he sedition hush
        And like a torrent rush
        Rebellious Scots to crush
        God save the King”

        But, although it hardly ever gets past the first verse, most of us feel some sympathy with the second verse.

        “Confound their politics
        Frustrate their knavish tricks
        On Thee our hopes we fix
        God save us all”

        Indeed.

        No-one knows the lyrics of our Australian National Anthem, because anyone who sees them tries to forget them in psychological self-defence.

        We all prefer “Waltzing Matilda”, and would like that to be the national anthem. The tune is taken from the old English song “Marching with Marlborough”, and the lyrics tell of a swagman (tramp/hobo) who steals a sheep and then drowns himself rather than give up to the authorities.

        So much more suitable, don’t you think?

      • straightline
        January 12, 2015, 11:08 pm

        I voted for Waltzing Matilda in the referendum on the “National Song” for Australia many years ago – much more in keeping with Australia’s self-perceived larrikin character but the wowsers won. I have no idea what the words of the current National Anthem are – something about “Advance Australian Fare” which might be about the rising price of public transport, or kangaroos on our dinner plates.

        My favourite is PRCs – March of the Volunteers.

      • RoHa
        January 13, 2015, 6:40 pm

        Something to do with this, I think.

        http://www.pacificfair.com.au/home

      • RoHa
        January 13, 2015, 7:57 pm

        “March of the Volunteers” is pretty good. Here’s a rather crackly version. Good visuals, and the lyrics are included. (Also a translation for the under-educated.)

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wchc0xKhJNI

        I have a soft spot for the old Soviet anthem. But I still have to give first prize to the Frogs.

      • Philemon
        January 13, 2015, 9:37 pm

        You know, I’ve always assumed the Australian National Anthem was Waltzing Matilda. I have no recollection of any other song in connection specifically with Australia.

        Of course, I’ve never understood why Ireland didn’t adopt “The Minstrel Boy” as its National Anthem.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgwQcUhKceg

        Torch singers with the “Marseillaise” could not hope to compete with all those Guinness-swigging baritones.

      • RoHa
        January 13, 2015, 11:15 pm

        ” I have no recollection of any other song in connection specifically with Australia.”

        Wild Colonial Boy?
        Click go the shears?
        Tie me kangaroo down?
        Song of Australia? (Totally unsingable, that one.)
        I am Australian? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD3SkTyXzcE)
        Pub with no beer?
        Happy Little Vegemites?
        Botany Bay?
        Road to Gundagai?
        Redback on the toilet seat?

        None of those?

        What a distressingly impoverished background you must have!

        Here, get a bit of culture.

        http://folkstream.com/songs.html
        http://alldownunder.com/australian-music-songs/

      • RoHa
        January 14, 2015, 4:02 am

        And, Philemon, if you are wondering how much truth there is the stereotypes, I will tell you that on Channel Nine news tonight there was a brief bit about a collision between a tram and a beer truck. The announcer aid that no-one was seriously hurt, but then said -in worried tones- “as for the precious cargo, its fate is not so certain”, while the camera concentrated on the kegs.

        Incidentally, the sooner Ireland chooses “Minstrel Boy” as its anthem the better. Great song.

      • straightline
        January 14, 2015, 4:04 am

        @Philemon: “I have no recollection of any other song in connection specifically with Australia. ”

        Before 1984 the Australian National Anthem was “God Save the Queen”. In 1977 there was a national referendum for a “National Song” in which “Advance Australia Fair” was chosen. It became the National Anthem in 1984. It ranks amongst the most boring of national anthems so there is no reason why you should remember it. Musically it has similarities to the tune of “God Bless the Prince of Wales” . Why would anyone want any country to be associated with that sentiment?

      • lysias
        January 14, 2015, 10:49 am

        What can be more stirring than the Russian anthem? (It’s the old Soviet one, with new words. For that matter, the old Tsarist anthem is also great.)

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 11:25 am

        Just as a related matter, I might mention that I have my own personal national anthem, and it has done me immeasurable amounts of good in trying situations, when faith and strength both threatened to fail me.
        Everybody should have one!
        Now you don’t have to be a composer, use the tune of a song you like, and fit new words to it. Many anthems are made like that. Mine is sung to the tune of “He’s a Yankee Doodle Dandy” and begins “He’s a big tremendous Mooser, weighing up to fifteen hundred pounds” and goes on to enumerate the sterling qualities of Alces Alces.
        But that’s me, everybody needs one of their own. Give it a shot, it really helps when you are, as Bertie might say, “up to the collar-studs in the mulligatawny

      • Philemon
        January 14, 2015, 9:17 pm

        C’mon “Wild Colonial Boy” is Irish, surely. The guy was from Castlemaine, County Kerry, for Gawd’s sake.

        And I always thought “Tie me kangaroo down, sport” was a verse from “Waltzing Matilda.” Or if wasn’t, it ought to be.

      • RoHa
        January 15, 2015, 1:38 am

        The action takes place in Australia.

        Incidentally, there is a Castlemaine in Victoria.
        http://www.castlemaine.org

        And, more importantly, there is

        http://www.castlemainebrewing.com

        I drive past the local (Brisbane) Castlemaine XXXX Brewery quite often. (“Why past?” I hear you ask.)

    • ckg
      January 12, 2015, 9:21 pm

      The Marseillaise on video. Natanyahu’s expression is priceless. Enjoy.

      • eljay
        January 12, 2015, 9:57 pm

        >> ckg: … Natanyahu’s expression is priceless. …

        “They are all Jews, and I am their king.”

        (with apologies to Monty Python)

      • Walid
        January 13, 2015, 2:48 am

        “The Marseillaise on video. Natanyahu’s expression is priceless. Enjoy.” (ckg)

        Probably thinking to himself, “What a bunch of ungrateful assholes”

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 11:33 am

        Well, who wouldn’t want to be “Rick”, or more accurately “Lazlo” ( “Play ‘The Marseillaise’. Play it!” and Rick nods….)
        And Netanyahoo gets to play Gen. Strasser! Perfect!

      • lysias
        January 14, 2015, 12:01 pm

        You’ve promoted Major Strasser to General. I guess that must be because Netanyahu would have insisted on the promotion.

        By the way, do you know why the German officers sing Die Wacht am Rhein in Casablanca? The original plan was to have them sing the Horst Wessel Lied (“Die Fahne hoch”), but the studio was afraid of copyright problems.

      • Mooser
        January 19, 2015, 2:26 pm

        Thanks “lysias”! That’s an interesting sidelight on the famous scene. I admit, I always just assumed they were singing “Horst Wessel Lied” and never really listened to that.
        And of course, when the inspiring words of “The Marseillaise” start (“Bought me a box of French cigars, bought me a black beret…”) I forgot all about the Germans. And of course, it was Major Strasser! Don’t know why I promoted him.

      • Mooser
        January 19, 2015, 2:40 pm

        From a comment at You Tube:

        “The girl playing the minor role of the character Yvonne shown crying (real tears) is the famed French Actress Madeleine LeBeau, who was forced to flee Europe to the US with her Jewish Husband. “

  19. seafoid
    January 12, 2015, 3:50 pm

    Netanyahu is such a miserable turd. How he became king of the Jews is one of life’s great mysteries.

    • eljay
      January 14, 2015, 12:18 pm

      >> seafoid: Netanyahu is such a miserable turd. How he became king of the Jews is one of life’s great mysteries.

      The Lady of the Lake (Tiberias), her arm swathed in lush, cherry-tomato vine, held aloft a Captain Israel outfit from the bosom of the water…

  20. seafoid
    January 12, 2015, 3:56 pm

    the photo is interesting.

    Poland (Tusk) has no more Jews. The Palestinians paid the price
    Germany (Merkel) murdered all the Jews . The Palestinians paid the price
    France (Hollande) supports Israel. The Palestinians pay the price
    Israel got the land of the Palestinians. Everyone is a winner. Except the Palestinians.

  21. lysias
    January 12, 2015, 3:59 pm

    It’s not being said publicly, but I wonder if the reason Obama (and Biden and Kerry) were absent was because they had been asked to stay away. Horrible that the most senior U.S. official present was Victoria Nuland.

    • a blah chick
      January 12, 2015, 4:47 pm

      “…the most senior U.S. official present was Victoria Nuland”

      Is she the one who wears those loud jackets that have been know to cause seizures?

    • ckg
      January 12, 2015, 8:59 pm

      Victoria Nuland? Well, Netanyahu wasn’t friendless then.

      • seafoid
        January 13, 2015, 1:48 am

        She’s an employee, not a friend

    • a blah chick
      January 12, 2015, 4:53 pm

      Wow.

      “The footage, captured by a French TV station, is remarkable: The prime minister of Israel looks nervous, dejected, beaten down, surrounded by his security detail yet still standing in the middle of the street, looking exposed to danger in a way world leaders should never be. Netanyahu appears furious, annoyed, confused, trying to busy himself with talking on his phone or fixing his hair, constantly looking over his shoulder to check whether his bodyguards are still there. Even the French news anchors had to sympathize with his distress.”

      Bwahahaha!

      • TW
        January 12, 2015, 8:06 pm

        LOL, Paris – Benjamin Netanyahu waiting for the bus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2LVDXpMXgQ

      • ckg
        January 12, 2015, 10:17 pm

        Natanyahu looking ‘nervous, dejected, beaten down” at the bus stop.

      • seafoid
        January 12, 2015, 10:34 pm

        He was worried about being thrown under the bus by Obama .

      • ckg
        January 12, 2015, 10:37 pm

        This one is even better–it has mocking music:

      • just
        January 12, 2015, 11:14 pm

      • RoHa
        January 12, 2015, 11:30 pm

        I notice that his bodyguard was prepared to push aside the Asian looking woman but didn’t try it with the very large African-looking military guy. “Ladies first” clearly not high on the list of values, but a touch of the discretion/valor.

      • amigo
        January 13, 2015, 5:13 am

        ” The prime minister of Israel looks nervous,” ABC

        He is basically a coward and it shows in these images.One reasonably loud booh delivered to his ear would cause him to deficate himself and show the French what zionism smells like.

      • Walid
        January 13, 2015, 5:46 am

        Amigo, the guy sure looks like a clown, but he’s actually succeeding at disturbing shit all over Europe. He stole Hollande’s show at the Sunday circus and he surely compounded the fears of French Jews by repeatedly telling them they would be safe in Israel and that Israel is their home, so they’ll start leaving France sooner than anticipated. There was anti-Moslem demonstration in Germany (Hamburg I think) that gathered over 100,000 demonstrators not happy with their Moslem situation and talk today in the UK is that 150 suicide bombers have already returned to the UK. This is all part of the Zionist machinations to light it up between Europe’s Christians and its Moslems. Something is starting to happen in Italy.It’s a game that Netanyahu is winning.

      • seafoid
        January 13, 2015, 6:20 am

        Walid

        the number of disaffected Muslims is quite small in contrast to the ones who just want to live and let live in Europe. Milikovsky is selling a shoddy Jewish version of ISIS to French Jews who live in a multicultural society that is far richer than Israeli IDF obedience and cultural nihilism.

        Zionism has run out of road and nothing Mili vanilli does can change that. If you read what he said in the grand synagogue he is a lost ideologue, not a catalyst for change.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge8h8XCeaGs

        Look at the guy translating. He looks much more intellectually secure than anyone indoctrinated into Zionism via Hebrew monoculture.

        1% of French jews went to Israel last year. That wouldn’t even cover the birth rate and it’s probably haredi losers.

    • Walid
      January 12, 2015, 5:10 pm

      Lysias, with the express lanes opened for ISIS through his country and his participation in the Syria rumble, he shouldn’t be talking.

      • seafoid
        January 12, 2015, 10:35 pm

        Erdogan has a big problem taking the ISIS side in that war , Walid given that 20% of Turks are Alevi shia and another 20% or so are Kurds.

      • Walid
        January 13, 2015, 1:37 am

        Seafoid, it’s the other 60% that carry the big stick and steeped in brotherhood ideology. Turkey is buying the pirated oil from ISIS and is the main conduit for outsiders heading into or from ISIS-occupied areas. The Alevi did not object to Turkey’s involvement in Syria and all the Kurds want is to be left alone. Lots of all around of turning a blind eye going on there. Last year the Lebanese Shia pilgrims that had been held prisoner by ISIS in Syria for months until Lebanon’s Shia kidnapped a Turkish Airlines pilot in Beirut and he was released along with a cash settlement of several millions by Qatar for the release of the 11 pilgrims held for about a year. Now that ISIS and Nusra have been holding 23 Lebanese soldiers prisoners since 7 months under threat of beheading them (they already killed 2) with no solution in sight, the Lebanese civilians are back to contemplating the kidnapping of another Turkish national to force Turkey’s hand in the holding of the soldiers by ISIS. It’s in it up to its neck.

      • seafoid
        January 13, 2015, 2:18 am

        Walid
        Longer term having Erdogan playing the Sunni extremist card could destabilize Turkey.
        It’s not for nothing that Ataturk wanted a secular state.
        There are 3 sizeable populations and if they hadn’t murdered all the Armenians there would be 4. I wouldn’t say those borders are set in stone.

      • Walid
        January 13, 2015, 3:36 am

        He’s busy teaming up with Qatar in helping the Islamist rebel parallel government that is holding Tobruk and Bengazi while the anti-brotherhood group of Egypt, the UAE and Saudia are helping the official Libyan secular governement. Lots of fingers in that sauce. The 7 or 8 Egyptian Brotherhood leaders that have taken refuge in Qatar may end up in Turkey since Qatar asked them to move out and Meshaal too is rumoured to have been asked to leave and may end up either in Iran or in Turkey. Seculars in Turkey must be wondering where this is headed. Like France, Turkey caught the economic empire building bug.

        http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/12/egypt-coordinate-libya-defeat-islamists.html#

      • lysias
        January 15, 2015, 10:24 am

        Something is wrong with those figures. If we add in what I assume is a pretty substantial percentage of Kemalist secularists, wouldn’t that bring Erdogan’s support down below 50%? And wouldn’t that contradict the election results?

    • American
      January 13, 2015, 12:52 pm

      ” This is all part of the Zionist machinations to light it up between Europe’s Christians and its Moslems. Something is starting to happen in Italy.It’s a game that Netanyahu is winning. -….Walid

      Whats afoot in Italy clearly shows it is Israel who is setting it afoot

      Like the pissant, shit stirring, little teenage psychos they are, the Zios try to set up the enemy of the Jews, the Vatican as the next target of the enemy of the Jews, the Islamist.

      Not hard to follow the bread crumb trails of news planted propaganda and fake threats right back to Israelis.
      Lots of little Israeli helpers around the world hard at work for the clash of civilizations.

      Vatican Denies Receiving US And Israeli Intelligence Warning About ISIS Imminent Attack

      http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/578985/20150114/pope-vatican-isis.htm#.VLVHvnsl_T_

      “Contrary to the claims from “some organs of the media,” the Vatican has not received any warnings that it is a target of a looming ISIS terrorist plot. The director of the Holy See Press Office, Fr Federico Lombardi, issued a statement on Jan 12, denying claims that it is in possession of intelligence reports warning of a possible attack against the Vatican.”

      “The clarification was made in the wake of a report saying that the U.S. CIA and Israel’s Mossad had issued warning of an imminent ISIS attack against the Vatican. The report had purportedly come from La Republica, Corriere della Sera and other Italian newspapers, according to Reuters.”

  22. seafoid
    January 12, 2015, 4:59 pm

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.636687

    “On the BBC, an Israeli woman called Hava, the daughter of Holocaust survivors from Poland who has been living in France since 1995, said Sunday that in the last few days she has stopped feeling secure as a Jew in France.

    “We have to not to be afraid to say that the Jews are the target now,” she told BBC reporter Tim Willcox at Sunday’s unity rally in Paris. “It’s not only the-”

    Willcox interrupted and compared the attack, which came as French security forces were surrounding the assailants who killed 12 people at French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo two days before, to Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, saying: “Many critics, though, of Israel’s policy would suggest that the Palestinians suffered hugely at Jewish hands as well.”

    When Hava began saying that the two situations could not be compared, Wilcox broke in again, saying: “But, you understand, everything is seen from different perspectives.”

    • lysias
      January 12, 2015, 5:05 pm

      It will be interesting to see if Wilcox keeps his job at the BBC. Brave man.

      Or is the tide turning at the BBC?

    • eGuard
      January 12, 2015, 5:16 pm

      Who is she to claim the attack exclusively for THE jews? Good question, mr Willcox.

      • seafoid
        January 12, 2015, 10:33 pm

        Zionism IS thejooz TM. Netanyahu is their leader, appointed by God. Only miserable defeatists like Mooser and Bornajoo stand in the way of Jewish destiny. To Hebron ,infinity and beyond. Anyone who disagrees will be cast out into the wilderness.

      • Mooser
        January 12, 2015, 11:20 pm

        “Only miserable defeatists like Mooser and Bornajoo stand in the way of Jewish destiny.”

        Well, I think that Cousin Bornajoo and I are some of the nicest miserable defeatists you’d ever want to meet. And when the rolling thunder of Jewish destiny threatens to engulf us, we will escape disguised as Cathy and Patty Duke.

      • seafoid
        January 13, 2015, 2:20 am

        I’d love to meet the 2 of you

      • Mooser
        January 13, 2015, 12:08 pm

        “I’d love to meet the 2 of you”

        Well “Bornajoo” adores a minuet, the Ballet Russes, and crepe suzette, old “Mooser” loves to rock and roll, and a hot dog makes him lose control. (A “National Hebrews” frank, that is)

        We’ll have a great time.

    • Walid
      January 12, 2015, 5:20 pm

      Amanpour asked 3 different interviewees, ” Have you EVER seen such a massive demonstration in Paris in the name of freedom since 40 years?” To which the natural answer came out as “NO”. The 3rd one said “no” but went to say that although the number of demonstrators was very imposing, even more imposing are the suburbs in a radius of 15 km from there where the disadvantage are not demonstrating but fuming at what happened to some of their people and all the bad things being said about them as a collectivity. That’s when Amanpour cut him off by apologizing that she had to cut back to the studio. Another guest also tried to explain what was behind all the unrest in the suburbs and he too ws immediately cut off because of the studios gimmick.

      • bintbiba
        January 13, 2015, 7:49 am

        @seafoid…. Me too ! With you !

    • yonah fredman
      January 12, 2015, 5:35 pm

      seafoid- the upshot of you and Wilcox- every Jew is a valid target. is that not a valid inference?

      • straightline
        January 12, 2015, 8:58 pm

        I am always impressed by the logic of hasbarists. Would you please explain your reasoning Yonah? It seems to me that, on the contrary, the interviewee’s view is that all Palestinians are targets and Wilcox was suggesting that that might not be the case. How you reason that into your statement defies logic.

      • seafoid
        January 12, 2015, 9:32 pm

        I think the lesson, Yonah, is that YESHA logic is understood far beyond the fuzzy ‘disputed’ borders of Erez Israel.

        Chuck Schumer can stand at a rally in NY and say “no ceasefire!” to huge applause but it may blow up later.
        You can buy Congress but money can’t buy you love or even security.

        http://www.haaretz.com/misc/iphone-article/.premium-1.599667

        “All the seeds of ultra-nationalism and messianism that have been planted over the past several years are germinating now and blooming in the flower beds of rot. All of the Israeli hatreds have reared their heads in the wake of the kidnapping of three yeshiva students whose place of learning is in the heart of the occupied territory. All of the destructiveness and the intolerance for other views, all of the unity and the falling into rank in Israel have now assembled for the biggest display of ultra-nationalism ever. All the seeds of religiosity have sprouted into a mass prayer service led by the television broadcasters, every single last one of which has volunteered for propaganda duty. No one questions the mass arrests, the re-imprisonment of the Palestinians who were freed in the Gilad Shalit exchange deal, the arrests of members of the Palestinian parliament, the deportations to the Gaza Strip and the warmongering. Anyone who does has sealed his own fate. ”

        Some of the seeds bloomed in Paris. And that shouldn’t happen.
        but neither should YESHA. And life is very messy, even for Messianists .

        And stop whining.

        You need someone likeWinston Wolf to come in and sort out Israel . The problem seems to have gotten out of hand.

      • eGuard
        January 13, 2015, 1:24 pm

        yonah: every Jew is a valid target Stop abusing jews.

      • Kris
        January 12, 2015, 8:00 pm

        “BBC reporter Tim Willcox has apologised after he told the daughter of a Holocaust survivor during a broadcast from the Paris rally yesterday: ‘Palestinians suffer hugely at Jewish hands as well’. “We can’t do an amalgym,” she responded, shaking her head.

        “To which Willcox said: “You understand everything is seen from different perspectives.”

        Willcox was then forced to apologize.

        Willcox’s tweeted apology: “Really sorry for any offence caused by a poorly phrased question in a live interview in Paris yesterday – it was entirely unintentional.”

        I hope someone will help me understand this.

        1. What is an “amalgym’? Amalgam, a mercury compound used for filling teeth? Mercury is dangerous, we know that because of the Mad Hatter.

        2. What was the question for which Willcox had to apologize?

        These look like simple declarative sentences, not questions. Is it, ““You understand everything is seen from different perspectives,” even though there is no question mark? Or is it, ” ‘Palestinians suffer hugely at Jewish hands as well'”?

        We good guys are all about freedom of speech right now, and will defend to the death everyone’s right to offend Muslims, so why does a BBC reporter have to apologize for simple statements of fact?

  23. Mayhem
    January 12, 2015, 5:14 pm

    The dishonesty in the remarks here is mind-blowing. France has just screwed Israel with its ill-considered vote in the UN Security Council as it has done before when de Gaulle stopped arms shipments to Israel after the 1967 war. The issue with Netanyahu coming to Paris was fundamentally to do with security. For Netanyahu to be prevented from attending the ceremonies in Paris would have delivered yet another insult by France to Israel as it struggles desperately to prevent more Islamic terrorism.
    There will always be your appeasers like Rabbi Margolin, Jews not prepared to wake up to the grim reality of a Europe that is succumbing to enormous pressure from its burgeoning Muslim populations. The cat is out of the bag – it is way too late for interfaith hug-fests and such delusional dilly dallying.

    • amigo
      January 12, 2015, 6:43 pm

      “France has just screwed Israel with its ill-considered vote in the UN Security Council ” mayhem.

      I agree, they should have voted for a Palestinian state long ago and talked all the others into following suit.Then they should put forward a motion to have every Israeli leader arrested and tried for war crimes.

      That would be doing Israel a favour .You are right, they have left Israel down by allowing it to carry out it,s criminal acts for so long.

      As to Moslem population of Europe, do not worry we will be fine and happy to know that as a result of all those terrorist Moslem’s , Israel will not be seeking to join the EU or ship anymore zionist products to the Jew hating shores of Europe.

    • Shingo
      January 12, 2015, 8:01 pm

      France has just screwed Israel with its ill-considered vote in the UN Security Council as it has done before when de Gaulle stopped arms shipments to Israel after the 1967 war.

      What’s ill considered about ending the occupation? The whole world agrees it has to end, even the US. Israel screwed itself.

      The issue with Netanyahu coming to Paris was fundamentally to do with security.

      Absolute rubbish. It was a campaign stop, as Hollande let slip. Meetings to do with security are planned well in advance.

      For Netanyahu to be prevented from attending the ceremonies in Paris would have delivered yet another insult by France to Israel as it struggles desperately to prevent more Islamic terrorism.

      Rubbish. Netanyahu was there to sabotage the ceremonies and try to make the event about him.

      There will always be your appeasers like Rabbi Margolin, Jews not prepared to wake up to the grim reality of a Europe that is succumbing to enormous pressure from its burgeoning Muslim populations.

      What pressure? There were 2 gunmen and France has millions of Muslims who are peaceful. In fact, the hero of the attack was a Muslim who helped 15 Jews hide.

      The policeman who was shot was also Muslim you idiot.

      The cat is out of the bag – Bibbi is a political lepper and parasite.

      • Mayhem
        January 13, 2015, 4:31 pm

        @shingo, you keep on trying to avoid reality to push what seems to be your only concern – the dissolution of Israel.
        You know that Netanyahu and Hollande would not have wanted to give another opportunity for a Muslim misfit to kill some more Jews in France right now hence the security concerns.
        Just as you were dismissive about the terrible death toll in Syria when it was escalating, so you are blind to the bleak prognosis for Jews in a Muslim plagued Europe.

      • Shingo
        January 13, 2015, 10:52 pm

        ou keep on trying to avoid reality to push what seems to be your only concern – the dissolution of Israel.

        You keep scraping the barrel is a desperate attempt to sound like you have a serious argument.

        Netanyahu seems to relish the opportunity that the deaths of Jews in the diaspora presents. After all, he gets to parade around like the concerned parent, insisting that he told us so and and gin up approval ratings back in Israel.

        It also means he gets to push for more Jews to come to Israel which in turn gives him the excuse to steal more Palestinian land so that he can house them.

        No, this has nothing to do with security concerns. The only security Bibbi is concerned with is his job and the security of illegal settlements.

        Just as you were dismissive about the terrible death toll in Syria when it was escalating

        When did I ever dismiss the death toll in Syria?

      • Mayhem
        January 14, 2015, 8:41 am

        The Syrian Observatory’s total of 76,021 deaths for 2014 compared with its total of 73,447 in 2013, 49,294 in 2012 and 7,841 in 2011 from http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/02/world/middleeast/syrian-civil-war-2014-deadliest-so-far.html. This is a total of over 200,000 people having been killed in Syria in 3 years.

        On the other hand deaths in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict 1987-2014 over a period of 27 years are 8500 Palestinians and 1500 Israelis for a grand total of 10,000 from http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000639

        Where is the perspective around here Shingo?

        It seems that one Palestinian death is 200,000/10,000 X 27/3 = 180 times more important than the death of every Syrian.

      • Shingo
        January 14, 2015, 4:26 pm

        The Syrian Observatory’s total of 76,021 deaths for 2014 compared with its total of 73,447 in 2013, 49,294 in 2012 and 7,841 in 2011

        Most of which have been at the hands of Saudi, US, Turkish and Israeli backed foreign fighters.

        How’s that for perspective Mayhem?

        And hoe about the fact that Israeli leaders have expressed their hope that the war would continue indefinitely with no one side winning, just as they were hoping the Iraq/Iran war would never end?

        On the other hand deaths in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict 1987-2014 over a period of 27 years are 8500 Palestinians and 1500 Israelis for a grand total of 10,000

        Actually it’s closer to 35,000 since the conflict began. Israel has killed close to 8,000 Palestinians this decade alone.

        It seems that one Palestinian death is 200,000/10,000 X 27/3 = 180 times more important than the death of every Syrian.

        Based on the wars started by Israel in 2008, 20012 and 2014, It seems that the deaths of Jews in Israel is 80 times more important than than each Palestinian.

        Keep scraping that barrel Mayhem. You’re just exposing your lunacy and desperation with every post.

        BTW. None of the above has anything to do with supporting your claim that Netanyahu turned up to France to discuss security. In fact, Bibbi got shown the door every time he turned up.

    • seafoid
      January 12, 2015, 9:49 pm

      “the grim reality of a Europe that is succumbing to enormous pressure from its burgeoning Muslim populations. The cat is out of the bag – it is way too late for interfaith hug-fests and such delusional dilly dallying” –

      https://twitter.com/hashtag/foxnewsfacts?src=hash

      recent convert to Islam, Queen Elizabeth ruthlessly beheading innocent U.K citizens under Sharia law #FoxNewsFacts
      https://twitter.com/musaQ_95/status/554819453532520448/photo/1

      • Mooser
        January 12, 2015, 11:00 pm

        “recent convert to Islam, Queen Elizabeth ruthlessly beheading innocent U.K citizens under Sharia law “

        Wow, stuff is getting out of hand. They let her do that?

      • Mooser
        January 12, 2015, 11:03 pm

        “The cat is out of the bag – it is way too late for interfaith hug-fests and such delusional dilly dallying”

        And what is so unfortunate is that every time “Mayhem” writes a serious, considered comment about what should be done now that it’s too late, the Moderators won’t print it! And the man is just trying to help too!

      • seafoid
        January 13, 2015, 1:00 am

        Mayhem’s Zionist crap about the European muslim bogeyman is racist grade bilge.
        Like most most hasbara., All the Muslims I know are decent people who want the same things for their kids as white people viz spaghetti bolognaise and free music downloads.

    • oldgeezer
      January 14, 2015, 12:33 am

      You moan and whine about the death toll in Syria as if a civil war versus a military occupation was comparable. And if you want to do per capita comparisons the death toll in Gaza exceeded the death toll in Syria on an annualized basis. Of course the murder rate in Gaza was perpetrated by one side and not both.

  24. Edward Q
    January 12, 2015, 5:25 pm

    I have to say its pretty galling to have someone like Netanyahu talk about “equal rights”.

    • gracie fr
      January 12, 2015, 7:08 pm

      PM Netanyahu’s meeting with French Ambassador Maisonnave
      re he made the decision to go………

  25. German Lefty
    January 12, 2015, 6:01 pm
    • ckg
      January 12, 2015, 11:36 pm

      Has any of the German press or media commented on the Israeli newspaper that photoshopped Merkel out of the march photo because she is female?

    • Kay24
      January 13, 2015, 6:56 am

      Apparently Bibi’s gate crashing was a real PR disaster. He elbowed his way to the front of the line, he missed the bus that was supposed to take him and other leaders to some place (maybe the other leaders deliberately left him, ha ha) and then there was the French patriot song sung at a synagogue, when he visited it. The Beebs has been the unwelcome guest, and the odd man out. I guess his last attack on Gaza has made him loose some respectability.

    • ckg
      January 13, 2015, 9:41 pm

      German Lefty, Dankeschön.

  26. American
    January 12, 2015, 6:27 pm

    Every time I see that march picture I think where else could you see that many hypocrites in the same place at the same time.

    Have any of the Charlies done a cartoon on the hypocrites yet?

  27. JeffB
    January 12, 2015, 7:50 pm

    @jimby and straightline

    Obviously I meant worst massacre in recent French history. I actually thought since the 1980s but looking at your list looks like it is worse than the 1980s bombings.

    @RoHa

    I said hostile to the interests of Jews. If you want specific stuff about French Jews excluding Israel, anti-Zionist incitement pretty consistently leads to attacks on the domestic Jewish population. What just happened is the norm.

    @Eljay

    There is much hypocrisy when Israel claims to be a nation like any other – a state of and for all of its citizens, immigrants, ex-pats and refugees, equally

    It is. Besides the fact yet again you like to apply different standards. Lots of countries are rather hostile to refugees and somehow that doesn’t bother you any. As for “equally” most states aren’t equal and again doesn’t trouble you at all, only when the state in question is Jewish. Which is the very definition of inequality.

    • straightline
      January 12, 2015, 11:23 pm

      I take you at your word Jeff. It wasn’t obvious to me – or apparently jimby.

    • Mooser
      January 12, 2015, 11:27 pm

      “Which is the very definition of inequality. “

      Oooh, clever, Mayhem! It’s irrefutable! The unequal attention “eljay” pays to Israel, cancels out the inequality in Israel!. And here’s the beauty part: The more attention paid to Israel’s inequality, the more unequal the situation is for Israel. So in having a policy of inequality, Israel is only fighting for it’s own equality!

      Off course, Mayhem!

      • straightline
        January 13, 2015, 1:00 am

        It was JeffB not Mayhem, Mooser. I can understand how you confuse them – they read from the same script. Or maybe you know something I don’t. Why do I always feel like a schlemazel when I’m writing to Mooser?

      • JeffB
        January 13, 2015, 6:04 am

        @Mooser

        It is actually pretty easy for him to get out of. If he starts applying the standard equally. Start always calling Japan the Japo-supramicist state and Ireland the Irish-supremicist state every time they are mentioned. Start arguing how it is only Japanese supremacism that leads them to believe that Hokkaido isn’t really Korean…

        Then while he would be saying idiotic stuff he wouldn’t not be anti-semitic bigot. But as long as he believes laws should apply only to Jews then yeah, he’s a bigot.

      • amigo
        January 13, 2015, 11:44 am

        “Ireland the Irish-supremicist state every time they are mentioned ” jeff b

        What are you rattling on about jeff.Ireland is not a supremacist state unlike Israel , the racist supremacist apartheid most criminal nation in the universe.Oh and the second most disliked and least trusted.

        Surely the whole world cannot be wrong and they are on eljay,s side.Don,t you ever tire of making an ass of yourself and those who you support, not that they need any help.

      • eljay
        January 13, 2015, 12:04 pm

        >> JeffBeee: @Mooser It is actually pretty easy for him to get out of.

        There’s nothing for me to get out of.

        >> If he starts applying the standard equally.

        I haven’t applied the standard unequally. Show me one instance where I failed to call out a Japanese supremacist on his supremacism as he was advocating it.

        >> But as long as he believes laws should apply only to Jews then yeah, he’s a bigot.

        This is so lame it’s funny!
        1. I have never one stated that laws should apply only to Jews. I have, in fact, consistently stated that justice, accountability and equality must be consistently and universally applied.
        2. You are the one arguing that Jews have a right to commit crimes against others that others are not permitted to commit against Jews. You are the Zio-supremacist bigot.

      • Mooser
        January 13, 2015, 12:13 pm

        “It was JeffB not Mayhem, Mooser. I can understand how you confuse them”

        Actually, “straightline”, I knew, but didn’t care. Wasn’t worth correcting.

    • eljay
      January 13, 2015, 7:19 am

      >> JeffBeee: It is.

      Except that it isn’t.

      >> Besides the fact yet again you like to apply different standards.

      Nope. Double standards are what you guys do: What is bad when it’s done by others to Jews is good when it’s done by Jews to others.

      >> Lots of countries are rather hostile to refugees and somehow that doesn’t bother you any.

      Name some states that are hostile to refugees from the geographic regions they comprise and I will condemn them the same way I condemn Israel.

      >> As for “equally” most states aren’t equal and again doesn’t trouble you at all, only when the state in question is Jewish.

      Name some states* in which citizens are “unequal” and I will condemn them the same way I condemn Israel.

      (*This is where Zio-supremacists compare the “moral beacon”, “light unto the nations”, “Western-style democracy” of Israel not to the best Western nations it purports to be like, but to Saudi Arabia, Mali and African “hell-holes”.)

      >> Which is the very definition of inequality.

      Your track record with definitions (morality = goal + methods) is quite poor. But, please, do show me one instance where I have supported hostility to refugees or inequality of citizens.

      • JeffB
        January 13, 2015, 10:02 am

        Eljay —

        JeffB;Lots of countries are rather hostile to refugees and somehow that doesn’t bother you any.

        Eljay: Name some states that are hostile to refugees from the geographic regions they comprise and I will condemn them the same way I condemn Israel.

        No you won’t. We already tried that experiment with you a few months back. Then you were arguing that no other state had an ethnic / racial criteria not tied to inhabitation like the right of return. At the time it was all equal. So I listed out out about 2 dozen countries with Jus sanguinis (right of blood). We talked about Japan which is far worse than Israel and how the ethnic Korean and Chinese who live their aren’t really citizens and effectively are unable to naturalize. And you made token comment that was equally bad. Yet I have yet to hear you talk about Japanese supremacism as a virtual obsession. Nothing about Bulgaria, Croatia, Haiti, Greece…

        Which means you don’t really care about ethnic criteria in the abstract what you care about are Jews. Now it is established fact.

        This is where Zio-supremacists compare the “moral beacon”, “light unto the nations”, “Western-style democracy” of Israel not to the best Western nations it purports to be like, but to Saudi Arabia, Mali and African “hell-holes”.

        Saudi Arabia is completely non racist they are excellent on that issue. I don’t consider Japan, Italy, Ireland, Kiribati … to be hell holes. You want a hell hole with those sorts of laws Rwanda, but the overwhelming majority are good countries to live in that Israel should have no problem being compared with.

        Finally I’d like to call you on your own racism here. 1/2 the Jewish population of Israel did not come from western countries. Israel should not be a western country. Unless one wants to endorse ethnic discrimination it should aim be culturally mixed like Lebanon not western. And that’s excluding the fact of where it geographically is located. The more culturally Arabic it becomes the less discriminatory it and the better it fits in with its neighbors. When Israel acts and thinks European it is acting and thinking like a crusader state justifying the very criticisms against it. Europe is like a drug habit that Israel has that it needs to break to fully realize itself as an independent country.

        Israel should be evolving away from European law, European custom, European culture and through breeding with the Palestinians European ethnicity and physical appearance. Trying to keep Israel European is being a racist not fighting it.

      • eljay
        January 13, 2015, 11:01 am

        >> JeffBeee:

        No you won’t.

        Yes I will.

        We talked about Japan which is far worse than Israel and how the ethnic Korean and Chinese who live their aren’t really citizens and effectively are unable to naturalize. And you made token comment that was equally bad. Yet I have yet to hear you talk about Japanese supremacism as a virtual obsession.

        1. This isn’t a site about Japan. If it were, I would be condemning Japan and not using Israel – or Saudi Arabia, Mali and African “hell-holes” – as an excuse for Japanese supremacism.

        2. Thank you for confirming that I have supported neither hostility by a state against the refugees from the geographic region it comprises, nor inequality of all citizens.

        Nothing about Bulgaria, Croatia, Haiti, Greece…

        Same as Japan, above.

        Which means you don’t really care about ethnic criteria in the abstract what you care about are Jews.

        I care about equality – and justice and accountability – in all cases and for all people.

        Now it is established fact.

        In your fevered imagination, perhaps, but not in reality.

        Finally I’d like to call you on your own racism here.

        There’s none to call me on.

        1/2 the Jewish population of Israel did not come from western countries. Israel should not be a western country.

        Then why do you Zio-supremacists keep insisting that it is?

        Trying to keep Israel European is being a racist not fighting it.

        Then you’d better have a chat with your racist Zio-supremacist co-collectivists, who want to keep Israel i) Western and ii) supremacist.

      • Mooser
        January 13, 2015, 12:19 pm

        We already tried that experiment with you a few months back

        Uh-oh, Royal fight brewing! I mean, only one person, the Queen, gets to use the royal “we”!

        Who gets to be Queen Victoria Yonah, or JeffyB?. And wow, if I ever saw a couple of old….oh never mind.

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 2:12 pm

        “Israel should not be a western country.”

        You know, you might get your wish. How would you feel about a failed, third-rate rogue state controlled by IDF warlords? Hey, it’s not “western”!

    • RoHa
      January 13, 2015, 8:10 pm

      “I said hostile to the interests of Jews. If you want specific stuff about French Jews excluding Israel,”

      As far as I can tell, the President of France doesn’t have a lot of influence on the lives of Australian or Mexican Jews.

      “anti-Zionist incitement pretty consistently leads to attacks on the domestic Jewish population. ”

      It is regrettable that standing up for morality, human rights, and human decency turns out to be “bad for the Jews”. Is this Hollande’s * fault?

      “What just happened is the norm. ”

      There seems to be a general impression that what just happened is rather special.

      (*Typically inconsiderate of the French to elect a president whose name can be confused with a completely different country.)

      • JeffB
        January 14, 2015, 6:59 am

        @RoHa

        As far as I can tell, the President of France doesn’t have a lot of influence on the lives of Australian or Mexican Jews.

        Neither did Hitler. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t bad for the Jews. Attacking a subset of the Jewish population, in this case the French Jewish population is still being bad for Jews.

        JeffB: “anti-Zionist incitement pretty consistently leads to attacks on the domestic Jewish population. ”

        It is regrettable that standing up for morality, human rights, and human decency turns out to be “bad for the Jews”. Is this Hollande’s * fault?

        His fault no, his choice yes. You are responsible for the likely outcomes of your actions. Most all people who see doing bad thing X as being justified because good thing Y arises from it. Choosing to pursue Y then is choosing to tolerate X. Hollande choose policies which harm French Jews. I get that he thinks he is justified. Tomás de Torquemada had better justifications that doesn’t stop people from considering him an enemy of the Jewish people.

        There seems to be a general impression that what just happened is rather special.

        I agree among the left that is the general impression and the general impression is incorrect. Consistently anti-Zionism acts like a proxy for anti-Semitism creates anti-Semitism and is effectively indistinguishable in effect from anti-Semitism. This isn’t really that surprising.

        I’ll pick a rightwing example rather than a leftwing so you can see this more easily. In America’s immigration debate we don’t spend a great deal of time trying to distinguish between those Americans who want Mexicans out of the country because they traffic in drugs and bring disease (Louie Gohmert style) vs. those who hate Mexicans because they broke our laws and undercut wages (Erick Erickson style). We get that both of them are fundamentally the same thing. Now on the right I’d imagine that the Erick Erickson’s would be very offended to be grouped with the Louie Gohmerts, he’s not a racist, he’s just sticking up for the underclass. Hispanics however get that Erick Erickson legitimized Louie Gohmert. Erick Erickson is bad for Hispanics at least as much as Louie Gohmert is.

        It is not the martians that are building Israel, it is the Jews. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows that the Jews support Israel. If Israel is a manifest evil, then the Jews are supporting manifest evil. Who does that sort of thing? Evil people. Calling Jews evil and saying that Israel are evil are effectively indistinguishable. The idea that there is some great moral divide between the two is a farce.

        Hollande is not a BDSer. But this is why the BDS style discussion gets so heated. With normal countries people want changes in policy. Even with the most repulsive states in the world the goal is generally policy reform or at worst regime change. The criticism leveled at Israel, that they deserve national destruction are unique. What would cause Israel to be manifestly evil that normal means of resolving policy disputes, like arguing for changes in policy, fail?

        Hollande could have very easily said that he disagrees with Israeli policy without it being a major focus. The same way he might disagree with Mali’s policy without it being a major focus.

      • seanmcbride
        January 14, 2015, 10:40 am

        JeffB,

        “It is not the martians that are building Israel, it is the Jews. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows that the Jews support Israel. If Israel is a manifest evil, then the Jews are supporting manifest evil. Who does that sort of thing? Evil people. Calling Jews evil and saying that Israel are evil are effectively indistinguishable. The idea that there is some great moral divide between the two is a farce.”

        You are arguing that all Jews and “the Jews” collectively are Zionists and are responsible for Zionism and the policies and actions of the Israeli government — quite a dangerous line of thought — but most Zionists agree with you.

        This is precisely the kind of argument that authentic antisemites are on board with — but no surprise there — Zionists and antisemites have been collaborators from the beginning of modern Zionism.

        Whenever opponents of antisemitism try to draw clear distinctions between Jews and Zionists, Zionists like yourself are eager to push back and claim that Jews and Zionists are indeed synonymous.

        Imagine if all Roman Catholics were to be judged and held responsible for the policies and actions of the Italian government or any particular Italian regime — Zionists fail to see the pitfalls in conflating religion and politics at this level of intensity. Catastrophe is guaranteed.

        When are you going to take the trouble to think these issues through?

      • eljay
        January 14, 2015, 2:28 pm

        >> JeffBeee: It is not the martians that are building Israel, it is the Jews. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows that the Jews support Israel.

        It’s not Jews, but Jewish and non-Jewish Zio-supremacists who are building and supporting Israel. It’s incredibly anti-Semitic of you to hold all Jews accountable for the past and on-going (war) crimes of Zio-supremacists like you.

      • RoHa
        January 14, 2015, 6:48 pm

        “Hollande choose policies which harm French Jews. ”

        So you think he should not stand up for morality, human rights, and human decency?

        “It is not the martians that are building Israel,”

        Though when you see the way the Israeli forces act, they do rather resemble the Martians in War of the Worlds and Mars Attacks.

      • lysias
        January 15, 2015, 11:45 am

        War of the Worlds was inspired by a conversation Wells had with his brother about how the aborigines of Tasmania had been exterminated by the European colonists.

  28. Kay24
    January 12, 2015, 8:45 pm

    Bibi cannot take “NO” for an answer. The Beebs has somehow taken the opportunity, once again, to politicize a horrible situation. He made sure he barges in to a place where he is not wanted, and play the victim role again. What an arrogant creature. The Chickenshit’s intention is to gather all Jews from around the world, and get them down to Israel, where he can solidify the nation for Jews, claim more lands, and make it more difficult for the world to get rid of them from the illegal settlements. It is all about Israel, even when there is tragedy in France.

    I think the Hypocrisy award goes to him. After massacring over 2000 Palestinians last year, and refusing to give the Palestinians their rights, he is marching for unity and peace.

  29. seafoid
    January 12, 2015, 9:59 pm

    The Jpost link is interesting
    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Lapid-to-European-Jews-Come-to-Israel-387301

    “It’s horrible that Jews are murdered because they are Jewish and intellectuals are killed because they are intellectuals,” he said in reference to the two separate attacks in the French capital.”The State of Israel not only offers its condolences but also offers any help needed. We have extensive experience and sorrow from the war on terror,” he added. ”

    Maybe it makes sense in Hebrew where the only good Gazan is a dead terrorist.

    • oldgeezer
      January 13, 2015, 12:36 am

      Left unsaid is the terrorist israeli belief that it’s not horrible that Palestinians, including babies, are killed merely because they are Palestinian and stand in the way of Israeli land theft.

      I agree with most that it’s less than pleasant that a dyed in the wool terrorist PM injected himself into this situation. It was an insult to all the dead as he tried to make hay out of the situation.

      Netanyahu shares more in common with the killers than the victims.

      • seafoid
        January 13, 2015, 1:35 am

        It’s kosher to murder Palestinians but killing Jews is a sin against humanity . WTF are Muslims supposed to think ?

    • Marnie
      January 13, 2015, 12:45 pm

      “We have extensive experience and sorrow from the war on terror.”

      Should have said “We have extensive experience causing sorrow, war and terror.”

  30. Whizdom
    January 12, 2015, 10:57 pm

    What motivated the killer in the HyperCacher?

    In the killer’s own words.

    “He even told us he had nothing against Jews, but that we paid taxes to the French state and so we condoned [its actions].””

    What were his demands, if any?

    ““After that, I think the authorities got on the line because he started issuing demands. He told them that he wanted French troops to withdraw from all Muslim lands,” Cohen said.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/as-victim-lay-dying-gunman-asked-hostages-do-you-want-me-to-finish-him-off/

  31. Pixel
    January 12, 2015, 11:43 pm

    The next thing you know we’ll be hearing that Bibi’s bag was packed on the 6th.

    UTTER nonsense!

    Poll Reveals One Third of French Believe Israel Behind Charlie Hebdo Massacre

    • Kay24
      January 13, 2015, 12:40 am

      Who can blame people around the world, for doubting, or being suspicious? Israel is notorious for lying about many things, denying crimes, and then responding with their usual “oops” when getting caught. Israel is one of the most devious nations in the world. It has a history of using passports belonging to other nations, sneaking into other nations and killing top officials and scientists. Israel lies and starts attacking unarmed civilians, and making up stories as to why they must keep doing so, when the UN condemns it.
      Netanyahu their present leader, is a well known liar, and referred to as one by a world leader.

      Netanyahu faces elections soon, and all this show of being where he is NOT wanted, may be his pathetic way of impressing his voters. I think Israelis who vote for Bibi want a miserable failure like Beebs, the leader referred to as Chickenshit, because they admire his style and okay with his lies.

  32. RoHa
    January 13, 2015, 1:55 am

    There is a story on WRH suggesting that the Presidents, Prime Ministers, etc., were not actually leading the March but just posing in a quiet street.

    Surely our honoured and glorious leaders would not deceive us in this manner!

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/#axzz3MnrDwzJQ

  33. JeffB
    January 13, 2015, 5:00 am

    @Kris

    I suspect she is using the word “amalgym’ to mean the types of fillings in dentistry that use mercury. Prior to having polymers they were the standard and lots of people still have them in their mouth. Even though amalgym fillings are great quality when they break they are poisonous and so some dentists like to remove them under controlled circumstances (like in a dental office) and replace them with polymers. That procedure is also controversial because it is can also lead to Mercury exposure “do no harm”.

    Wilcox said that the anti-semitism being driven by Israeli policy. The woman then responded “we can’t do an amalgym”. I’m assuming that the French use the noun amalgym to mean the procedure of removing a mercury filling. So by analogy she is saying that removing the settlements is a complex and dangerous extraction likely to poison the body (I’d assume the body in the analogy is all of mandate Palestine but she isn’t clear).

    The apology was because Wilcox was seen as justifying anti-Semitism. That is “well you understand people are shooting up kosher grocery stores in France because Israel is doing bad stuff”… Which is how she responds to the comment with a shrug and he says “well I know” i.e. I know you can’t control Israel.

    That’s my $.02 on
    W: “‘Palestinians suffer hugely at Jewish hands as well’.
    J: “We can’t do an amalgym,” , shaking her head.
    W: “You understand everything is seen from different perspectives.”

    We good guys are all about freedom of speech right now, and will defend to the death everyone’s right to offend Muslims, so why does a BBC reporter have to apologize for simple statements of fact?

    Because he is justifying terrorism. By saying attacks on civilians (including 3rd party civilians) are a consequence of policy disagreements he’s effectively legitimizing them. And the problem is that Wilcox didn’t want to go there.

    I agree that is a simple statement of fact. Nations have policies that are implemented by states other states respond to those policies and often that turns into putting pressure on the nation. Violence is one of the means of pressuring a nation. But everyone wants to pretend that no one kills each other civilians as a way pressuring except for those very rare and very bad “terrorists” and so we all have to ignore the obvious.

    • Kris
      January 13, 2015, 2:42 pm

      Thanks, JeffB, for your thoughtful reply.

      Why do you agree that Wilcox’s statements were simple statements of fact, but also say, “Because he is justifying terrorism. By saying attacks on civilians (including 3rd party civilians) are a consequence of policy disagreements he’s effectively legitimizing them.”

      How can stating a fact “justify” or “legitimize” anything? If I say that measles has resulted in brain damage, am I then justifying and legitimizing the brain damage? Or if I say that keeping a loaded handgun in a purse accessible to children can result in a child shooting someone, is that justifying and legitimizing a tragedy that may follow?

      I agree with you that it’s all about pretending, and ignoring the obvious, but when a reporter has to “apologize” for failing to ignore the obvious, shouldn’t that lead to more questions–like who is pulling the strings, and why?

      • oldgeezer
        January 13, 2015, 3:04 pm

        Jeff doesn’t do principles. He just spins facts in whatever direction he wants without regard to any basis in reality.

        According to his own logic he justified the attack on hebdo. While I’m certain he didn’t mean to justify the attack or terrorism in general it’s a prime example of his willingness to say anything he feels will further his goals. A variant of the end justifies the means.

        To quote jeffie, in referring to Hollande.

        ” He wanted a big march to cover up the fact that his policies led to the worst massacre in French history. ”

        Israeli or US policies never have such results. They are always the victim and that’s to be accepted as a given.

      • seafoid
        January 13, 2015, 3:31 pm

        ” He wanted a big march to cover up the fact that his policies led to the worst massacre in French history. ”

        Even invoking Jewish fingernails that claim is preposterous.
        the Revolution was fairly bloody as were the Nazis.

      • lysias
        January 13, 2015, 6:39 pm

        Don’t forget the Albrigensian Crusade. (I suspect the number killed in the St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre was not as great as the cases you mention, but still many more than last week.)

      • JeffB
        January 13, 2015, 7:34 pm

        @Kris

        Why do you agree that Wilcox’s statements were simple statements of fact, but also say, “Because he is justifying terrorism”

        Pretty much what I said, “ everyone wants to pretend that no one kills each other civilians as a way pressuring except for those very rare and very bad ‘terrorists'” . By saying that violence against civilians is normal course for states to pressure one another he is effectively justifying terrorism by put in context. “Everybody does it” is an apologetic.

        As an aside I actually heard a critic since I wrote your response (Joe Scarborough) who was infuriated with the comparison between Israel’s mistreatment of the Palestinians and the holocaust. I didn’t get that from Wilcox but thought I should put it out there since it was a critic explaining his reasons.

        agree with you that it’s all about pretending, and ignoring the obvious, but when a reporter has to “apologize” for failing to ignore the obvious, shouldn’t that lead to more questions–like who is pulling the strings, and why?

        The entire world has a very dishonest discussion of political violence. Here is my take. When we talk about political violence there are essentially 3 opinions:

        1) catastrophists who believe that violence is in and of itself a negative. The you can’t win a war anymore than you can win a hurricane
        2) eschatologists who see our current trouble as part of the broader fight between good and evil. We are the “good guys” and the enemy as the “bad guys”. This BTW is the dominant paradigm here on MW which is unusual for the left, generally leftists discussion tend more towards (1).
        3) realists who tend to see violence as a means to an end and think in terms of interests. Thy are quite often opposed to violence but only opportunistically.

        justifying violence bothers (1) and justifying the “bad guys” violence bothers (2). I don’t think it goes much beyond that. It is politically incorrect to talk about “terrorists” the way one talks about other policies.

  34. JeffB
    January 13, 2015, 5:29 am

    @Mooser

    Isn’t it nice how JeffyB just assumes Lapid should have control over all those French Jews lives. That’s right, Lapid and Hollande will just arrange it all between them, and the French Jews will just have to like it

    What do you think happens when the USA returns illegals to Haiti or Mexico? The USA government contacts the respective government and they arrange transfer. That’s the way the world works. Citizen X of country Y illegally in country Z get returned via. a coordination between Y and Z.

    The reason Jews have been subject to massacres and not expulsions (without getting into the morality of Jewish expulsions) is because they had nowhere to go. Russian Tzars had to passive their Jews, very similar to what Israel is doing in Gaza, because there was no place they could go to. Now there is a Jewish homeland there is a place they can go.

    Eljay’s hypothetical was one in which Hollande (France) wanted to expel its Jews and how Lapid would respond. Lapid being a Zionist i.e. someone who recognizes French Jews as belonging to Israel would rather assist in their transfer to Israel than see them packed off into cattle cars to die from heat or die from gas after they arrive in death camps.

    You need to start dealing with the historical reality of what statelessness means to people. If France wants to lay claim to its Jewish population and they want to live there good. And of course right now France has no intention of expelling its Jewish population. But lots of societies that had great relationships with their Jewish population 2 or 3 generations later are killing them. France itself being a wonderful case in point. Napoleon was virtually the Jewish messiah. A little more than 100 years later France’s government fully supported extermination as the solution to the Jewish problem in Europe. French policy can change. Israeli policy on Jews will never change.

    Prior to 1947 Jews had been in the Jewish quarter of Jerusalem for centuries. By 1949 all the ones who hadn’t left were dead. Hollande’s position is that the Jewish quarter is a settlement in “East Jerusalem” and thus the outcome of 1949 was appropriate. Right now he does’t support the Jordanian means but he isn’t that far removed.

    • Mooser
      January 13, 2015, 12:24 pm

      “What do you think happens when the USA returns illegals to Haiti or Mexico?”

      Wow, JeffyB you really don’t like Jews, do you? We’re just the eternal illegals, and “all they will call us will be deportees”. Look at you , hoping that those French Jews are caught in some kind of citizenship or identity trap.

      And you’re ready to be deported from SoCal to Israel, I suppose?

      Is it always the American Jews, secure in their own citizenship, and their get-out-of-Israel-free card in their pocket, who ready to sell the rest of the world’s Jews down the river to Zionism? Who knows.
      Ah JeffyB, what an archive you are building, a regular tome. You could write a book.

      • Mooser
        January 13, 2015, 12:37 pm

        “You need to start dealing with the historical reality of what statelessness means to people.”

        Yes, asshole, the “statelessness” of the Jews is a big problem. That’s what we should be worrying about.

        You are a prize JeffyB.

    • amigo
      January 13, 2015, 12:47 pm

      Jeff B , are you by any chance the Jeff Northridge who used to post similar garbage on Haaretz.

      He too was a racist bigoted Islamaphobe and all round Arab Hater .

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 11:42 am

        I don’t know, there’s something about “JeffyB”s wide-eyed ingenuousness, his absolute honesty, which makes him quite unique.

      • amigo
        January 14, 2015, 2:56 pm

        “I don’t know, there’s something about “JeffyB”s wide-eyed ingenuousness, his absolute honesty, which makes him quite unique.”mooser

        It looks as if he is the same Jeff.He used to post as Jeff Northridge –Penn Valley.There is a Northridge Restaurant in Penn Valley and the contact is none other than , “JEFF B,” .

        Coincidence , I think not. Penn Valley has a population of less than 1700 people.Figure the odds.

        See

        “tle: Partial Reason
        Name: Jeff Northridge
        City: Penn Valley State: California
        `…he [Amir Kasab] and his men were sent specifically to kill Israelis to avenge the “atrocities” against the Palestinians…`”haaretz

      • Mooser
        January 19, 2015, 2:50 pm

        “There is a Northridge Restaurant in Penn Valley and the contact is none other than , “JEFF B,” .

        Yup, he has made reference to incidents concerning that place. I think you got it in one, “amigo”!

    • Mooser
      January 14, 2015, 11:47 am

      ” And of course right now France has no intention of expelling its Jewish population.”

      And of course, every French Jew is registered with, and known to (and your Armani suit won’t fool them) the French Government, just in case they do?

  35. eGuard
    January 13, 2015, 5:52 am

    It took a few days, but the Charlie Hebdo killings are firmly and exclusively occupied by Zionists.

    A quiz about Charlie Hebdo. In 2008 Siné (Maurice Sinet) wrote in Charlie Hebdo about someone making a religious conversion for political career motives.

    Who converted?
    1. William of Orange
    2. Tony Blair
    3. Jean Sarkozy

    To which religion?
    1. Protestantism
    2. Catholicism
    3. Judaism

    How did it end?
    1. Siné was fired
    2. The editor took a stand and defended Charlie’s satire
    3. 150 politicans gathered in Paris to support Siné’s Freedom of Speech
    4. Israels PM urged Jews to leave France

  36. Kay24
    January 13, 2015, 6:59 am

    Read about Bibi’s PR disaster in France on Haaretz, it is rather funny:

    http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.636737?v=833D6E49996434D49F42298F97D02040

    • talknic
      January 13, 2015, 8:55 am

      conservative-jewish-newspaper-edits-angela-merkel-out-of-paris-rally-picture http://www.smh.com.au/world/conservative-jewish-newspaper-edits-angela-merkel-out-of-paris-rally-picture-20150113-12n819.html

      So much for freedom of expression

    • MHughes976
      January 14, 2015, 12:27 pm

      If the BBC report yesterday is true Netanyahu’s suggestion that the Jewish dead in the recent massacre be buried in Jerusalem has been accepted – and accepted pell-mell – by their families, which I would have thought was a major PR triumph, a smash-hit victory in the battle of symbolism. It shows that his siren song is being accepted increasingly by Euro Jewish people, no doubt despite the reservations of established Jewish leaders here.
      On cue this morning’s Independent cites a poll showing (in the familiar terminology of these things) increasing Jewish insecurity here in the UK justified by findings that ‘45% of British people accept’ at least one of four anti-Semitic propositions put to them. These concern financial greed, dual loyalty and too much holocaust talk.
      Netanyahu knows that the Euro political class doesn’t like him, Sarkozy’s inadvertently recorded conversation with Obama being particularly clear evidence. Nor is he very like those Jewish leaders and intellectuals who have a Euro cast of mind. But to his own constituencies, very much including the American exceptionalists whose credo is that they are morally superior to the effete characters of the eastern Atlantic seabord, he has played extraordinarily well.

      • MHughes976
        January 14, 2015, 12:48 pm

        Thanks to seafoid for the Besson essay. I miss out on some things by being an Independent rather than a Guardian reader.
        It’s eloquent and moving, though maybe the 1789 style fraternity – ‘et demain L’Internationale sera le genre humain’ – that he offers is not something that his addressees could really accept. It’s very Deist, don’t you think? Progressive thought since 1789 has always feared that organised religion was an opiate causing people to love irrational authority and sometimes to hate other people who are really victims of the same oppression as themselves.

      • hophmi
        January 15, 2015, 11:25 am

        If people are moving to Israel from European countries, it is not because Bibi Netanyahu is telling them to do so. It is because they are frightened and feel targeted. Bibi Netanyahu could say anything, but people would not pick up and move to Israel if they felt safe in France. These are people who are proudly French. But they feel frightened, and they feel like the situation is only going to get worse, not better. We can talk about anticolonialism until the cows come home, but it doesn’t make much difference if your schools are being shot up, your family is regularly harassed in the street, and your government does little more than pay lip service. It is breathtakingly obtuse to talk about anticolonialism to people whose children are called “dirty Jew,” and who are descendants of Holocaust victims and survivors, and, in the case of those from North Africa, may have faced persecution there.

      • Pamela Olson
        January 15, 2015, 5:04 pm

        Sorry to go off topic, MHughes, but I’m not sure how else to reach you. I will be in London this spring, and I’ll be glad to be in touch. Please contact me at pamolson (a) gmail if you like. Thanks!

      • MHughes976
        January 18, 2015, 4:00 pm

        I’ve been away for a couple days, Pamela – hope you’ve now heard from me via gmail – Martin

  37. seafoid
    January 13, 2015, 7:42 am

    A very impressive open letter to young Muslims by Luc Besson, translated.
    Such a contrast to the nihilism of Zionism

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/13/luc-besson-writes-open-letter-to-young-muslims-after-charlie-hebdo-killings

    “My brother, if you knew how badly I hurt for you today, you and your beautiful religion that has been so sullied, humiliated, and singled out. Forgotten are your strength, your energy, your humour, your heart, your fraternity. It’s unfair and together we will repair this injustice. We are millions who love you and who are going to help you. Let’s start at the beginning. What is the society we’re offering you today?

    It’s based on money, profit, segregation and racism. In some suburbs, unemployment for people under 25 is 50%. You are marginalised because of your colour or your first name. You’re questioned 10 times a day, you’re crowded into apartment blocks and no one represents you. Who could live and thrive under such conditions?

    Profit comes before all else. We cut and sell the apple tree’s branches and then are shocked there’s no fruit. The real problem is there, and that’s for all of us to resolve.

    I call on the powerful, the big bosses and all leaders. Help this youth that has been humiliated and which asks only to be part of society. The economy is in the service of man and not the reverse. To do good is the greatest of profits. Dear powerful, do you have children? Do you love them? What do you want to leave them? Money? Why not a world that’s more fair? That would make your children the most proud of you.

    We cannot build our happiness on the misfortune of others. It is neither Christian, nor Jewish, nor Muslim. It is just selfish and it leads our society and our planet straight into a wall. This is the work we have to do beginning today to honour our dead.

    Terrorism will never win.

    And you, my brother, you also have a job to do. How can you change this society that’s being offered to you? By working, by studying, by taking up a pencil rather than a Kalashnikov. That’s what’s good about democracy, it offers you the noble tools to defend yourself. Take your destiny in hand, take the power. It costs 250 euros to buy a Kalashnikov but not even three euros to buy a pen – and your response can have a thousand times more impact. Take the power, and play by the rules.

    Take power democratically, helped by all your brothers. Terrorism will never win. History is there to prove it. And the beautiful image of the martyr walking in both directions. Today there are a thousand [assassinated Charlie Hebdo journalists] Cabus and Wolinskis who have just been born.

    Take the power and don’t let anyone take power over you. If those who are presumed guilty of this tragedy really are, know that these two blood-spilling brothers are not yours, and we all know it.

    It would at most be two weak-minded individuals, abandoned by society and then abused by a preacher who sold them eternity … Radical preachers who play on and make your misfortune their business have no good intentions. They use your religion only to their advantage. It is their business, their small business. Tomorrow, my brother, we will be stronger, more connected, closer. I promise you. But today, my brother, I cry with you.”

  38. hophmi
    January 13, 2015, 10:54 am

    Boo-hoo. So Francois Hollande was unhappy Netanyahu was there. Big deal.

    In other news, Alex Kane thinks that if two people think the same thing for completely different reasons, they’re equivalent. You know, if one guys believes Jews should leave France because it’s unsafe, and another guy believes Jews should leave because the guy hates Jews, they’re exactly the same.

    Alex Kane is failing that morality test in the name of political advocacy. Or he’s just really dumb. But since I’ve met him, I’ll be generous and go with the former.

  39. JeffB
    January 13, 2015, 2:07 pm

    @Ellen

    I do understand that qibbus galuyoth is a Zionist idea. But the idea and belief that a bunch of Jewish Europeans with ancestral roots all over the place (most with nothing to do with Semitic peoples of the middle east) makes me want to vomit.

    I think you are missing a clause there. But that’s fine. You are entitled to object. Most country’s founding myths are stupid. Just to pick Japan again their founding myth is that Japan was founded when the emperor was born of the sun goddess and storm God. This first emperor Jimmu united the tribes… The current day government in a symbolic sense draws legitimacy from Jimmu. Jimmu couldn’t possibly existed since his myth shows clear signs of migration from China. It is literally a Chinese myth overwritten by Japanese places.

    Who cares?

    The brainwashing is immense. Milokowsky (Beebs or whatever is name is) is a Pole and the Jews of Eastern Europe were a population (like many) that adopted Judaism in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.

    I think it was inner breeding. The Eastern European Jews came out of the Iranian Jews migrating north to avoid the Romans. We see evidence of that in Croatian ruins. But let’s assume you are right and I’m wrong. So what? Under your theory these people joined the religion of Judaea which calls for a restoration of Judaea. They’ve held that belief for 1700+ years and then they did it.

    It is your side that is obsessed with race while calling Zionists racists. David (another legend that never happened) our great king is great-grandson of Ruth our most famous convert. Absolutely Eastern European Jews look like Eastern Europeans. There preserved the memes of Judaism. To what extent they preserved the genes doesn’t really matter.

    When the Roman Empire fell apart so did the social and economic life of many Roman territories, including Jerusalem.

    That is completely false at least as far as Jews. Jews were destroyed while Rome was still rising. Aelia Capitolina which was the replacement for Jewish Jerusalem was a city built while Rome was at its height. The destruction of Rome is what allowed some Jews to migrate back into the area not what caused them to migrate out.

    <blockquote. Based on the size of the Jewish population of Eastern and Central Europe in the middle ages, the idea that all Jews came from Palestine is absolutely implausible, impossible!

    10% of the Roman empire was Jewish (including God fearers) by the time of the 1st Jewish-Roman war. It isn’t implausible at all numerically. Jews are a much smaller fraction of the west now than they were 2000 years ago.

    There were probably more Jews (of the many Hebrew clans and tribes) BCE in what is now Yemen than there ever were in what we now call Palestine and Israel. (Which makes me wonder why didn’t the Zios go to Yemen?)

    Because it is about restoring Judaea and Judaea is Palestine.

    Would European Zionism mythology allow qibbus galuyoth for these wonderful people who are true Semites and the familial decedents of the many Hebrew tribes?

    Do they consider themselves Jews then yes, otherwise no. It isn’t about genes it is about memes.

    • Ellen
      January 13, 2015, 4:05 pm

      Jeff:

      I think it was inner breeding… what’s “inner breeding?” When one of my inner eggs breeds with another inner egg?

      . The Eastern European Jews came out of the Iranian Jews migrating north to avoid the Romans. Where did you pull that one from?

      Jeff, do you know what it means today when a Pole calls someone a Samaritan? It is a term for a fake with airs, a fraud. And who were the Samaritans of Poland?

      They were 17th and 18th century Polish nobles and the upper class who believed in the cultivated myth that they came from legendary Iranian tribes. You know, a people not related to the unwashed peasants of Eastern Europe, but something apart with a grander and longer documented culture. (You know, sort of like the Ayrian “race.”) So you are telling us that the Jews of Eastern Europe were Samaritans — Iranians who went to Poland. I’d love to see a reaction to that statement at a party in Poland.

      As for your ideas on Jewish migration before the decay of Rome. Jews were still there, all around (but not within the walls of Jerusalem after the revolts for “security” reasons.) You might want to read some good and objective history.

      Start with Peters, The Monotheists. He is an atheist, a historian and does not take “sides.”

      It is your side that is obsessed with race while calling Zionists racists. Oh, it is about “sides?”

      Zionists individuals may not be racists, but Zionist ideology is inherently as racist as all blut und boden ideas of the late 19th century were. The racist tenets of Zionism cannot be denied.

      It is the Zionist project, the Israeli government that has spent so much time and effort trying to establish the idea, concept “fact” of a Jewish race. With money being poured into “research” to define things like the “Cohen or Levi” gene. Because once that is made a “fact” the way for the “return of exiles” is paved. Zionism is “obsessed” with ideas of race. Race ideology is a pillar of Zionism.

      Point is no one is returning to anything, but an idea, a myth.

      You know, just as you say, Most country’s founding myths are stupid

      JeffB, what is your education? Have you traveled? Met and learned and lived with people of various backgrounds?

      BTW, what Judaic “memes” do the Bnei Menashe of Burma (you know that “lost tribe”) who have immigrated to Israel share with a Jew of Paris or New York or Tel Aviv? After all, they had to convert from Christianity and study Judaism first before “returning.”

    • Mooser
      January 14, 2015, 11:52 am

      “I think it was inner breeding… what’s “inner breeding?”

      What’s this “inner breeding” “JeffyB” speaks of? Oh, that’s easy to answer! “Inner breeding” is what you do when there’s too much “tribal unity”!!

      Okay, give me a minute to stop laughing, I’ve been waiting, literally, for years for that opportunity. Maybe I dove into the shallow end of the gene-pool.

  40. Daniel Rich
    January 13, 2015, 7:31 pm

    “As we staunchly support a multicultural society, with a gender friendly basis of equality, we proudly present the parade of mass murders down Petite Passage du Pastille, where Frau Merkel was sent off to go elsewhere, to a place where there are no men“.- Ha, Ha, Mevaser.

  41. yonah fredman
    January 13, 2015, 7:44 pm

    I am no fan of Netanyahu and I have read some columnists in Haaretz decrying Bibi’s pushiness in heading to a demonstration that Hollande wished he would not attend.

    On a different point. The Yehudim killed in the Kosher mart died on Kiddush Hashem (sanctification of God’s name). They were killed because they were Jews.

    (The attack on Har Nof although disgusting, can be seen in the light of the thousands of Palestinians killed by IDF forces in Gaza this summer. (Although in fact it was an act to protest Jews encroaching on the Temple Mount.) But the attack on the Kosher mart in Paris should be seen in the light of me-too-ism. as in: while you are killing enemies of Islam (Charlie Hebdo) don’t forget dessert: a couple of dead Jews would go nicely with the dead journalists. To view the killing of the French mart Jews in the light of Gaza is chronologically accurate, but misses and obscures the point. Can’t kill westerners in Paris without a couple of dead Jews thrown in, thus sayeth radical Islam.)

    • Whizdom
      January 13, 2015, 8:01 pm

      Yonah,

      You say the victims in the kosher mart were killed because they were Jews. Why do you think Jew hatred was the motivation? Do you have information we don’t?

      • yonah fredman
        January 13, 2015, 8:07 pm

        you’re right whizdom. it wasn’t jew hatred. it was anti zionism. or maybe it was random. believe what you want.

      • Walid
        January 13, 2015, 8:23 pm

        “believe what you want” (Yonah)

        Yonah, you have Israel to thank for blurring the difference between Judaism and Zionism. The concept that they are both the same or that the terms are interchangeable is confusing even you. I know they are not, but Israel insists in wanting me to think so and now you’re pulling the same stunt on Whizdom.

    • eljay
      January 13, 2015, 8:28 pm

      >> y.f.: The Yehudim killed in the Kosher mart … were killed because they were Jews.

      I agree. I condemn the act, I think it was utterly unjust and immoral, and I think it’s a shame the perpetrators escaped justice and accountability for their actions.

    • Mooser
      January 19, 2015, 2:55 pm

      ” The Yehudim killed in the Kosher mart died on Kiddush Hashem (sanctification of God’s name). They were killed because they were Jews.”

      Are you sure you don’t want to dial that back a bit, Yonah? I’ve read that most of the victims were Reform, Secular, or intermarried. And genealogies are still being compiled, along with DNA tests and testimonials. There’s so many goddam “ringers” these days. Everybody wants a piece of the action.

  42. yonah fredman
    January 13, 2015, 7:50 pm

    More on the cowardice in the face of the Charlie Hebdo story: the NYT refuses to run the cover of this week’s Charlie Hebdo, but merely links to it. Whereas the obscene (Hustler like) depictions of the prophet are not necessarily news and can be referred to obliquely, the cartoon of the Prophet on this week’s cover is not obscene by any stretch and merely offends the religious sensibilities of those who oppose depicting the prophet. Choosing not to print obscene cartoons is sensible, choosing to kowtow to Islamic law when covering a news story is cowardice.

    • Annie Robbins
      January 13, 2015, 8:17 pm

      More on the cowardice…. choosing to kowtow to Islamic law when covering a news story is cowardice.

      maybe they were choosing not to kowtow to those, like yourself, claiming it’s cowardly not to reprint Hebdo cartoons.

      • yonah fredman
        January 13, 2015, 9:33 pm

        Annie- do you really believe that or is this just evidence that you are willing to write a lie if it bolsters your argument? i bet if you took a lie detector test your sweat glands would testify that you are lying and you know it.

        the only reason the times is not printing this cartoon is because radical islam threatens violence and no other reason.

      • Kris
        January 13, 2015, 10:07 pm

        yonah: “the only reason the times is not printing this cartoon is because radical islam threatens violence and no other reason.”

        Were you part of the discussion at the top levels of the NYT about this, and that is why you know for sure why they decided against printing the cartoon?

        How is Annie “willing to write a lie”? Annie is not claiming to know why the NYT decided against printing the cartoon, you are. Annie is suggesting that the NYT might be choosing “not to kowtow” to people who want the cartoon reprinted, not asserting that she knows this for sure.

        My suggestion is that maybe the NYT realized that many of their readers do not like faith-baiting any more than they like race-baiting.

      • Kathleen
        January 13, 2015, 11:19 pm

        Just because you can does not mean you should.

      • oldgeezer
        January 14, 2015, 12:40 am

        We can always rely on yonah to fabricate his arguments on arguments which have no factual basis.

        And yes yonah the cartoons and your arguments are the equivalent to the protocols as they target an entire group without any factual basis. You are the same type of person as those who would support the protocols even if you refuse to look at yourself in any critical light.

        I personally wouldn’t publish the cartoons as they are bigoted and racist in nature. Maybe something is lost between the English and French cultures but I am functionally bilingual (ie not fluent).

        They appeal to the lowest mentality and rank up there will fa^& jokes.

        I feel for the loss of life but would do nothing to propagate such drivel. Cowardice? No. Common decency.

        Now lets start publishing Jew jokes and memes. That’s fun and funny
        (not)

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 12:00 pm

        ” is this just evidence that you are willing to write a lie if it bolsters your argument?”

        Yonah, don’t rely on the kindness of Mondoweiss Moderators. Some of them may be not-so-nice, have no feelings for you, and refuse to ban you. You have only yourself to blame for that.

        BTW, Yonah, you do know that under all applicable Internet applications, your entire comment archive belongs to Mondoweiss, and can be used any way they like?
        Think about that, pal. Right about now a graphic novel (no, not the “lascivious” kind) or an animated feature is looking pretty good.

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 12:57 pm

        “i bet if you took a lie detector test your sweat glands would testify that you are lying and you know it.” Yonah Fredman

        Excuuuuuse me, Yonah? Aren’t you getting a little “lascivious” here? The particulars of Ms. Robbin’s perspiratory system is most manifestly, none of your business. You shouldn’t, in your state, know from such things!

      • Mooser
        January 19, 2015, 2:59 pm

        ” like yourself, claiming it’s cowardly not to reprint Hebdo cartoons.”

        Huh? I thought Yonah was a big fan of civility. Yonah is dead-set against the “lascivious” or even “merely bloodthirsty” incivilities of Prof. Salaita,

    • American
      January 13, 2015, 8:26 pm

      @yonah

      Not as cowardly….and nauseating ….as this twits suckup rant for job security in our zion networks and dialing for Jewish dollars for the GOP:

      https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/554999644804349952

      Glenn Greenwald
      @ggreenwald

      Free speech crusader! RT @Mediaite: Scarborough Wants BBC Reporter Fired for Israel Comment http://bit.ly/1wUbX8e
      Scarborough Wants BBC Reporter Fired for Israel Comment
      by Evan McMurry | 8:50 am, January 13th, 2015 VIDEO

      One day after BBC reporter Tim Willcox apologized for his much-criticized statement about Israel and Palestine, Morning Joe host Joe Scarborough lit into him and the rest of “left-leaning media” for trying to paper over anti-Semitism because “it doesn’t fit their political agenda.”

      Willcox had been speaking at Sunday’s Paris Unity Rally to a daughter of a Holocaust survivor, who told him of growing fears of anti-Semitism in France. Willcox responded that “many critics, though, of Israel’s policy would suggest that the Palestinians suffer hugely at Jewish hands as well.” (He later called it a “poorly phrased question” and “entirely unintentional.”)

      “I cannot believe the BBC is going to allow this man to stay on the BBC,” Scarborough said Tuesday, adding that “some other people” had been trying to obscure the anti-Semitic motives of recent terrorist attacks, including the hostage takers who commandeered a kosher grocery in Paris last week.

      “For people in Europe that don’t understand why Israel exists, take what happened last week and multiply it 2 million times,” Scarborough said. “The fact that the BBC has someone insensitive and cold to the realities — this did not happen 300 years ago! This happened 60, 65 years ago, while Europe sat by and did nothing. They let 6 million Jews be exterminated. This is why Israel exists. And people need to get a hell of a lot more sensitive to it, even if they are left-leaning media members.”

      Not to be crass but please take your sensitivities and insert them up that hypocritical orifice where the sun never shines because the 90% of the world who arent media whores or politicians or retards are tired of it.

    • Walid
      January 13, 2015, 8:32 pm

      “More on the cowardice in the face of the Charlie Hebdo story: the NYT refuses to run the cover of this week’s Charlie Hebdo…”

      Yonah, what’s to be gained by the NYT by publishing it? It isn’t as if it’s a great piece of art or some very important social statement, it’s simply trash. The only merit in publishing it for others like you would be in seeing another NYT manifestation of I-love-Israel.

      What would you say to to the weekly serialization of the “Protocols” by the NYT simply to prove that it’s got big balls?

      • yonah fredman
        January 13, 2015, 9:36 pm

        yes, walid. publishing this cartoon of mohammed crying with a poster saying “je suis charlie” is an incredible analogy to the protocols. how discerning of you. how on target. how did you think of that? what a genius you are!

      • yonah fredman
        January 13, 2015, 9:52 pm

        maybe anti dialogue is the proper strategy for the free Palestine movement. i don’t know. but it sure is convenient, when all evidence of an ability to dialogue seems to be utterly lacking.

      • Walid
        January 13, 2015, 10:12 pm

        Yonah, what was being discussed was your accusation of NYT’s cowardice in refusing to publish a controversial caricature and I drew you a parallel situation using something you are familiar with, The Protols. Man you have a big problem with context.

      • yonah fredman
        January 13, 2015, 10:28 pm

        walid- oh no problem. i was missing the word “context”. now you truly are a genius! incroyable!

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 12:07 pm

        “when all evidence of an ability to dialogue seems to be utterly lacking.”

        Yonah, Richard Witty always, always spelled it “dialog”! Have you no feeling for tradition?

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 12:42 pm

        You know, Yonah it just goes to show you how inadequate a Reform Jewish education is!

        Why, when I was going to Hebrew School (such as it was in my sorely misguided, trefa-eating denomination) they kept on telling me (gee, was it every time we studied the Ten Commandments?) that Judaism prohibits “graven images” of God and religious things !!

        Was my Reform education that much in error, Yonah? I thought the prohibition on “graven images” called (wait a minute, while I get my Rabbi on the cell-phone. Okay, got it, thanks, Rebbe!) “aniconism” was an important concept for us and one we share with Muslims

        You will tell me if I’m wrong, won’t you? And look, Yonah, for what it’s worth at this point, I’m really sorry about that banquet. I would not have permitted that, if I had to stand at the kitchen door and examine each dish myself. It was disrespectful and unnecessary, and I’m sorry.

      • hophmi
        January 14, 2015, 1:00 pm

        How is re-publishing a satirical cartoon depicting The Prophet Mohammed wearing a Je Suis Charlie shirt and saying “All is Forgiven” a “manifestation of I-love-Israel”?

    • Kris
      January 13, 2015, 8:39 pm

      yonah: “Choosing not to print obscene cartoons is sensible, choosing to kowtow to Islamic law when covering a news story is cowardice.”

      What do you think of Joe Sacco’s take on this? http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/jan/09/joe-sacco-on-satire-a-response-to-the-attacks?CMP=share_btn_fb It seems to me that deliberately offending someone’s religion just because you can is much worse than printing obscene cartoons.

      You have a right to do it, but you don’t have to, and why would you?

      • Kris
        January 13, 2015, 8:51 pm

        I think it’s about trying to have some respect, yonah.

        ” R- E- S- P -E -C- T — find out what it means to me!”

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 12:17 pm

        2:29 of pure heaven “Roll it out, fool, and I ain’t lying!”

        BTW, an album of Gospel, called “Amazing Grace” by Aretha Franklin with Reverend James Cleveland is very good. Her father, Rev. Franklin, a much -recorded preacher in the 50’s started Aretha singing in church.

        At the link a song by the daughter of a Jewish NY firefighter adapted for Gospel.

      • hophmi
        January 14, 2015, 1:03 pm

        Because religion deserves to be criticized and satirized just like anything else?

        Because the argument of the terrorists is not that satirizing religion is wrong, but that depicting the Prophet in any fashion is offensive?

        Does Hebdo’s depiction of Catholic Cardinals having an orgy bother you as much as the depictions of the Prophet do?

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2015, 1:28 pm

        “Because the argument of the terrorists is not that satirizing religion is wrong, but that depicting the Prophet in any fashion is offensive”

        You tell ’em, Hophmi! After all, the Ten Commandments says:

        Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image

        So when it comes to freedom-of-speech, we are the experts on aniconism!

      • hophmi
        January 14, 2015, 1:56 pm

        Mooser, I know of no case where a Jew went and killed someone because they made a graven image. Your example is ridiculous and completely beside the point.

      • Kris
        January 14, 2015, 3:27 pm

        @hophmi: “Mooser, I know of no case where a Jew went and killed someone because they made a graven image. ”

        “I know of no case….” is not such a good argument, hophmi. We are all learning new things every day. Yesterday, for example, I could have said, “I know of no case where a dog was allowed, unaccompanied, to ride a city bus to a dog park,” and yet, today, I know that this happens in Seattle! http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/01/13/black-lab-rides-bus-seattle-washington/21726965/

        Maybe you could link to your sources.

      • hophmi
        January 14, 2015, 3:36 pm

        Not worth it in this case. Mooser cited the Ten Commandments. Let him present a source that says Jews have killed people because they made graven images.

        This is PC run amok. It’s ridiculous. There’s nothing at all racist or Islamophobic about pointing out that there’s something wrong with killing people because they drew a cartoon depicting Mohammed. Obviously, most Muslims do not think this way, but the radicals who do should be condemned for the extreme religious fanatics that they are.

      • yonah fredman
        January 14, 2015, 6:54 pm

        Kris- Yes, a discussion of the disrespect involved in depicting the prophet and whether a western media outlet should refrain from publishing such a depiction even when it is news is an appropriate topic of conversation. But the primary reason the Times is refraining from publishing this week’s Charlie Hebdo cover has maybe 1% to do with respect and about 99% to do with fear.

        And the fact is that this is not a silly consideration and to call it cowardice is wrong and it should be called prudence. It is prudent for the Times to worry about its employees and the access of their reporters to the billion and a half Muslims and their rulers or representatives. It is even prudent for the Times to worry about a Pakistani cop or a Pakistani demonstrator (Danish cartoons is my train of thought) and refrains from publishing cartoons that lead to riots by hotheaded protesters anywhere around the globe, there is validity in choosing to stop being a news organization and start being a Kumbaya organization. But to pretend that this is a decision based on respect rather than fear is naive.

      • Mooser
        January 19, 2015, 3:02 pm

        “Let him present a source that says Jews have killed people because they made graven images.”

        Well, well, here we have another person who passed his Scripture Knowledge Test by dint of a list of “begats” inscribed on his shirt-cuffs.

        Check your Bible Hophmi. They didn’t like “idolaters” back then.

  43. RoHa
    January 13, 2015, 10:58 pm

    Incidentally, has Netanyahu given thought to the possible result of all European Jews moving to Israel? Could that not lead to an enormous drop of support for Israel, since there would be no “Jewish Lobby” to keep Europeans in line?

  44. JeffB
    January 14, 2015, 6:36 am

    @yonah fredman

    Annie- do you really believe that or is this just evidence that you are willing to write a lie if it bolsters your argument? i bet if you took a lie detector test your sweat glands would testify that you are lying and you know it.

    the only reason the times is not printing this cartoon is because radical islam threatens violence and no other reason.

    I’m going to have to agree with Annie here Yonah. American mainstream media doesn’t generally want highly agitated viewers and readers. They want mild emotional agitation. Mild agitation causes people to be semi-distracted and less critical as they absorb advertising. Highly agitated causes people to be focused and not absorb the advertising at all.

    When people are upset about a story mainstream media tends to be pro-government to lower the level of agitation (9/11 is a great example of this). When people are indifferent about the underlying news the mainstream media tends to muckrake against the government to increase their level of interest and thereby create agitation. The Times doesn’t do pictures of Mohammad for the same reason they don’t show people being killed. For Muslims they are too upsetting, they cause them to focus and lose awareness of the products being advertised.

    • Mooser
      January 14, 2015, 12:12 pm

      “They want mild emotional agitation. Mild agitation causes people to be semi-distracted and less critical as they absorb advertising. Highly agitated causes people to be focused and not absorb the advertising at all.”

      Oy Gevalt! Such a mayven this JeffyB is! Is there anything he doesn’t know? Such experience with the world. And such strong principles! And so aidel gepotchket!! A regular balmocha!

  45. amigo
    January 14, 2015, 8:22 am

    Israeli embassy in Dublin at it again.

    ““We told you so, France.”.

    That appears to be the message implied in a provocative tweet courtesy of the Israeli embassy in Ireland, which posted a photograph on its Twitter account on Wednesday featuring Mona Lisa decked out in Islamic garb while holding what appears to be a rocket.

    The post seems to be a common sentiment among Israelis who are angry over what they perceive as the international community’s inability to empathize with its precarious security situation.

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/We-told-you-so-Israeli-embassy-in-Ireland-posts-photo-of-Mona-Lisa-in-Muslim-headdress-387690

    One might think they knew it was going to happen.

    • oldgeezer
      January 14, 2015, 8:29 am

      I for one empathize with decent Israelis that the majority of their countrymen are thieves and oppressors. They need to find the solution to the crimes with a little help from BDS perhaps.

    • eljay
      January 14, 2015, 8:42 am

      The post seems to be a common sentiment among Israelis who are angry over what they perceive as the international community’s inability to empathize with its precarious security situation.

      They should be angry with the Zio-supremacists among them and with their successive governments for putting them in that precarious situation.

      Using terrorism and ethnic cleansing to establish a supremacist “Jewish State” in Palestine, and then spending the next 60+ years stealing, occupying and colonizing Palestinian land and oppressing, torturing and killing Palestinians is bound to piss people off.

      Refusing to accept any responsibility for past (war) crimes even as Israel continues to commit (war) crimes with impunity doesn’t help, either. Neither does Israel’s refusal to enter into sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace, or to honour its obligations under international law.

    • Kay24
      January 14, 2015, 9:24 am

      Leave it to Bibi and the Israeli government to politicize every damn thing they can, and make them look the victims, or in this case the wise old men who now smugly says “we told you so”.

      Israel always predicts events that benefits them in some shape or form. They urged the world to bomb Iran, played a very negative role while US was involved in negotiations, and let’s not forget that cartoon bomb, that made Bibi look like a trouble maker, and the laughing stock of the world. I think Israel has become a pariah state, and they still have to wave the victim card, to
      remind the world they deserve sympathy, to get the support they get.

      The world watched with amusement Bibi invite himself to Paris, and how much he politicized the entire event, even elbowing his way (bulldozing his way perhaps) to the front. He had that air of entitlement and arrogance, that we are now familiar with. I am sure most nations are fed up of Bibi and his antics.

  46. NickJOCW
    January 14, 2015, 9:03 am

    This further demonstration of Netanyahu’s ill-manners will do him irrevocable harm in Europe, and it will do so among those don’t adopt any particular stance on the problems of the ME. It has probably done more to illuminate the difference between a Jew and a Zionist than all the extrapolations I have ever read anywhere. What civilized European, let alone Jew, could possibly want to relocate somewhere under such a barbarian. Those who complain of a status quo might consider how graphically this event will have changed European perceptions. Those who keep Hollande’s ratings down in the 30s still distinguish the man from the role of Head of State which is a national symbol above personality.

  47. JeffB
    January 14, 2015, 2:52 pm

    @Seanmcbride

    You are arguing that all Jews and “the Jews” collectively are Zionists and are responsible for Zionism and the policies and actions of the Israeli government

    Almost. I’m arguing that Jews collectively are responsible for Zionism and the policies of the Israeli government are broadly supported by Jews collectively. The same way Americans collectively are responsible for the Afghan war and the policies of the USA in the Afghan war.

    All Jews obviously don’t agree but huge majorities do with Israeli policy broadly. There are even some policies that most Jews reject (like the conversion laws). But that’s precisely the same thing I could say about Americans and USA law.

    This is precisely the kind of argument that authentic antisemites are on board with

    Authentic anti-Semites are people reject that idea that Jews are humans like any other and thus they incapable of being held to the standards of any other. People who accept Israel is the Jewish state and wish to hold to account like any other normal state aren’t anti-Semites even if they disagree on matters of policy.

    Whenever opponents of antisemitism try to draw clear distinctions between Jews and Zionists,

    What opponents of anti-semitism? If you mean leftwing anti-Zionists I see that as being very analogous to the 19th century anti-Semites who argued they weren’t primitive enough to be anti-Jewish. They could care less about the Jewish religion their problems were purely the racial deformities that Jews had.

    Assume that modern anti-Zionists don’t hate Jews racially they just adopt virtually every meme of anti-Semitism and deny Jews any of the sorts of rights of self determination that they insist on for any other group. Why is that such a major improvement that I’d want to defend it?

    When are you going to take the trouble to think these issues through?

    I have. I’m comfortable with where I stand.

    • seanmcbride
      January 14, 2015, 4:47 pm

      JeffB,

      Associating Judaism exclusively with the Israeli government would be like associating Roman Catholicism exclusively with the Italian government or Protestantism exclusively with the German government or Islam exclusively with the Saudi government.

      If Roman Catholicism, Protestantism and Islam *had* been associated exclusively with single nation-states and governments for the past few centuries, they would probably be completely discredited by now because nation-states and governments are highly volatile and fallible entities.

      You say, “I’m comfortable with where I stand.” I think you are standing on incredibly thin ice and don’t realize it. This won’t be the first time that Jews have been swept up by a self-destructive and false messianic movement.

      • JeffB
        January 14, 2015, 8:14 pm

        @seanmcbride

        Associating Judaism exclusively with the Israeli government would be like associating Roman Catholicism exclusively with the Italian government or Protestantism exclusively with the German government or Islam exclusively with the Saudi government.

        Judaism is comparatively tiny. There are slightly more Jews in the world than the population of Pennsylvania. Judaism is not comparable with Islam or Christianity as one of the world’s great religions. Its smaller than Mormonism or 7th day adventists but bigger than Jehovah’s Witnesses.

        It is entirely appropriate for a sect like that to be nothing more than the state religion for a smallish state.

        In the last century Judaism has been cleared out of most countries. The only substantial Jewish populations left are the USA and Israel. Israel has been vacuuming up the rest of the diaspora while American Judaism melts away. A key component of anti-Semitism is assign disproportionate importance to the acts of Jews and Judaism. When anti-Semitism is dead the general answer to Israeli news will be “who are Jews and where is Israel?”

        As an aside if you do want to see a writer make that kind of association you see with the early Protestant writers with regard to Northern Europe, Baptists with regard to American and Roman Catholicism with the governments of the former Western Roman Empire in people like Hilaire Belloc.

        You say, “I’m comfortable with where I stand.” I think you are standing on incredibly thin ice and don’t realize it. This won’t be the first time that Jews have been swept up by a self-destructive and false messianic movement.

        Yes but if you are right than it is likely the last. Judaism doesn’t have enough life left in it to survive any more self-destructiveness. I think Judaism went home to be reborn. But it is possible it went home to die.

      • Shingo
        January 15, 2015, 12:53 am

        Israel has been vacuuming up the rest of the diaspora while American Judaism melts away.

        On the contrary. More and more and jumping the sinking Zionists ship back into the diaspora

  48. JeffB
    January 14, 2015, 8:27 pm

    @Eljay

    t’s not Jews, but Jewish and non-Jewish Zio-supremacists who are building and supporting Israel. It’s incredibly anti-Semitic of you to hold all Jews accountable for the past and on-going (war) crimes of Zio-supremacists like you.

    OK. My contention is that there is no meaningful support for the end of “Zio-supremacism” in the Jewish community. You are arguing I’m wrong. Let’s do a simple test. Below are the major USA Jewish organizations. You pick the anti-Zionists ones in the list.

    Alpha Epsilon Pi
    Ameinu
    American Friends of Likud
    American Gathering/ Federation of Jewish Holocaust Survivors
    American Israel Public Affairs Committee
    American Jewish Committee
    American Jewish Congress
    American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee
    American Sephardi Federation
    American Zionist Movement
    American-Israel Friendship League
    Americans for Peace Now
    AMIT
    Anti-Defamation League
    Association of Reform Zionists of America
    Bnai Zion
    B’nai B’rith International
    Cantors Assembly
    Central Conference of American Rabbis
    Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America
    Development Corporation for Israel / State of Israel Bonds
    Emunah of America
    Friends of Israel Defense Forces
    Hadassah, Women’s Zionist Organization of America
    Hillel: The Foundation for Jewish Campus Life
    Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society
    Jewish Community Centers Association
    Jewish Council for Public Affairs
    Jewish Federations of North America
    Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs
    Jewish Labor Committee
    Jewish National Fund
    Jewish Women International
    Maccabi USA
    MERCAZ USA, Zionist Organization of the Conservative Movement
    National Council of Jewish Women
    National Council of Young Israel
    NA’AMAT USA
    NCSJ: Advocates on behalf of Jews in Russia, Ukraine, the Baltic States & Eurasia
    ORT America
    Rabbinical Assembly
    Rabbinical Council of America
    Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association
    Religious Zionists of America
    Union for Reform Judaism
    Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America
    United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
    Women of Reform Judaism
    Women’s International Zionist Organization
    Women’s League for Conservative Judaism
    Workmen’s Circle
    World ORT
    World Zionist Organization
    Zionist Organization of America

    • Shingo
      January 15, 2015, 12:50 am

      You pick the anti-Zionists ones in the list.

      Maybe you should remove the ones that are front groups for other front groups or the ones with less than a dozen members.

      For example, the American Zionist Council is AIPAC’s parent organization.

      • JeffB
        January 15, 2015, 1:27 am

        @Shingo

        Well first off this isn’t my list. Second the point is that 100% of the list is Zionist. Third the AZM listed above is not AZC.

        But you make an interesting point. As far as I understand it

        AZC is a FARA registered foreign lobby. AZC is thus freely allowed to coordinate with Israeli and non-USA Zionist organizations but has much stricter limitations on how it can lobby.

        AIPAC is a domestic lobby. AIPAC can’t directly coordinate abroad but is much freer to lobby.

        AZC is not legally in 2015 the parent organization of AIPAC though I agree that AZC provided the seed money for AIPAC and the original AIPAC guys were AZC guys and the AZC guys were connected to the Jerusalem Jewish agency (one of the entities that later became the state of Israel).

        The Jewish community in the USA was political weak once upon a time. But I don’t see how that’s not a perfect example of precisely what I’m to Eljay. In the 1940s the USA / Israel lobby was a foreign affair. In the 1950s it was mixed. By the early 1960s it became a fully independent entity and by the late 1960s till today the big lobby that everyone cares about is purely American Jews.

        Memes take time to spread through a culture and fully integrate. American Jews didn’t invent Zionism. American Jews came to be Zionists late. But today they are and institutionally Judaism is Zionist globally.

      • seanmcbride
        January 15, 2015, 2:53 pm

        JeffB,

        “Memes take time to spread through a culture and fully integrate. American Jews didn’t invent Zionism. American Jews came to be Zionists late. But today they are and institutionally Judaism is Zionist globally.”

        **”institutionally Judaism is Zionist globally”** — clearly this is the case. In fact, Jewish religious Zionists are now arguably the most vital component of the Israeli government and the worldwide Israel lobby, especially in the United States. Judaism and the Jewish religious establishment are an arm of the Israeli government.

        This is an ideological and cultural development of the utmost significance within Jewish history and human history as a whole — few people have begun to contemplate the full implications and consequences.

      • Shingo
        January 15, 2015, 4:01 pm

        Well first off this isn’t my list. Second the point is that 100% of the list is Zionist. Third the AZM listed above is not AZC.

        But you cannot provide any details as to how many of these are the same group nor how many members they represent. The strategy of the Israeli lobby is well documented insofar as they have created dozens or more front groups that act as shelf companies if you like for the central organization. That way, when it comes to lobbying and campaign donations, they can distribute funds from a very small number of wealthy donors, as well as flood the mail boxes of politicians with letters and emails to give the impression that they represent a large interest.

        But you make an interesting point. As far as I understand it

        AZC is a FARA registered foreign lobby. AZC is thus freely allowed to coordinate with Israeli and non-USA Zionist organizations but has much stricter limitations on how it can lobby.

        American Jews didn’t invent Zionism. American Jews came to be Zionists late. But today they are and institutionally Judaism is Zionist globally.

        Only in the US.

      • Walid
        January 15, 2015, 2:10 am

        Shingo, getting back to the funny smells in the Charlie Hebdo story, Jonathan Cook has a piece up on ICH along with a video that raises some big questions about what actually happened. The interesting part in the video is close at the end where it’s zoomed in for a really close up view of what actually happened:

      • Shingo
        January 15, 2015, 2:16 am

        Yes I read that piece by Cook. I was surprised that he had the courage to address the subject matter, given that by his own admission, he was stepping into a hornet’s nest by doing so.

        Cook even ventured so far as to consider that bullet fragments fro the impact against the side walk may have killed the guy, but what is the likelihood of fragments flying in the opposite direction of the bullet trajectory, let alone the likelihood of those fragments being lethal?

        I must admit I would be curious to see what would happen to the head of a human cadaver shot from 4 feet away by a high power rifle and compare that to the footage.

    • eljay
      January 15, 2015, 7:35 am

      >> JeffBeee: OK. My contention is that there is no meaningful support for the end of “Zio-supremacism” in the Jewish community. You are arguing I’m wrong. …

      What’s with the bait-and-switch? I wasn’t responding to your “contention”, I was responding to your comment: “It is not the martians that are building Israel, it is the Jews. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows that the Jews support Israel.”

      I disagree that “the Jews” are responsible for building and supporting Israel. I say it’s Zio-supremacists (Jews and non-Jews) who are responsible for building and supporting Israel. I don’t believe all Jews should be held accountable for the actions of Zio-supremacists. Apparently, you do.

      • eljay
        January 15, 2015, 7:48 am

        >> eljay: I disagree that “the Jews” are responsible for building and supporting Israel. I say it’s Zio-supremacists (Jews and non-Jews) who are responsible for building and supporting Israel. I don’t believe all Jews should be held accountable for the actions of Zio-supremacists.

        To clarify: I disagree that “the Jews” are responsible for building and supporting Israel as an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and religion-supremacist “Jewish State”. I say it’s Zio-supremacists (Jews and non-Jews) who are responsible for building and supporting Israel. I don’t believe all Jews should be held accountable for the actions of Zio-supremacists.

        (And not all Jews support the existence of Israel in any form.)

      • JeffB
        January 15, 2015, 4:56 pm

        @eljay

        So I’ll take that as “yes I agree every single major Jewish organization in America is Zionist”. Which means the Jews institutionally support Zionism. You can continue to run around with a belief that Americans aren’t responsible for American politics, Japanese aren’t responsible for Japanese politics and Jews aren’t responsible for Zionism but it is frankly silly.

      • eljay
        January 15, 2015, 6:37 pm

        >> JeffBeee: So I’ll take that as “yes I agree every single major Jewish organization in America is Zionist”.

        1. Don’t take it as a “yes”, because I don’t know whether or not every single major Jewish organization in America is Zionist.

        2. The Zionist or non-Zionist status of those organizations has nothing to do with your original assertion that “the Jews” are building and supporting Israel. Not all Jews belong to those organizations; those organizations do not represent all Jews; not all Jews are building and supporting Israel; and not all people who are building and supporting Israel are Jews.

        >> Which means the Jews institutionally support Zionism.

        Some – or many, or perhaps even most – Jewish institutions and Jewish individuals support Zionism. But not all Jewish institutions and Jewish individuals support Zionism. Your insistence that they do – when clearly that’s not the case – is a bit disturbing.

        >> You can continue to run around with a belief that Americans aren’t responsible for American politics, Japanese aren’t responsible for Japanese politics …

        Please show me where I have stated that I hold and “run around with” this belief.

        >> … and Jews aren’t responsible for Zionism but it is frankly silly.

        Are you suggesting that no non-Jewish Zionists and non-Jewish Zionist organizations exist to help build and support Israel?

      • eljay
        January 15, 2015, 8:33 pm

        >> JeffBeee: You can continue to run around with a belief that Americans aren’t responsible for American politics, Japanese aren’t responsible for Japanese politics and Jews aren’t responsible for Zionism but it is frankly silly.

        If Americans are responsible for American politics and Japanese for Japanese politics, then Zionists – not Jews – are responsible for Zionist politics. And Israelis – not Zionists or Jews – ought to be responsible for Israeli politics.

  49. JeffB
    January 15, 2015, 12:19 am

    @RoHa

    So you think he should not stand up for morality, human rights, and human decency?

    Two things. Something doesn’t cease to be true because someone has a good reason for doing it. For example saying that Obama is pro-insurance industry isn’t changed by the fact that he needed their support to get the Affordable Care Act passed. He still championed the strongest pro-insurance industry pieces of legislation in USA history. So even if your theory were true Hollande would still be bad for Jews.

    But it isn’t. What he is doing isn’t standing up for morality or human rights or human decency. Hollande has never argued that ethnic minorities have a right to separate from the state they live in. Certainly there is no principle of morality, human rights or human decency that dictates if such a state were to exist what its borders would be. Moreover by encouraging Palestinian obstinacy even if one believed there is going to be a two state solutions he’s prolonging the period under which the Palestinians suffer from Israeli violence. So no he’s doing much the opposite. Rather he’s hawking for votes from his Muslim minority by “getting tough with Israel”. The same way that USA Republicans have “gotten tough on abortion” as a way to get votes even though many of their get tough policies result in much higher levels of USA abortion than the alternatives.

    If he was concerned about the morality of situation he’d for example be urging Lebanon where he has leverage to grant citizenship to the Palestinians refugees or at least improve their condition. Heck, France has continued to import a Muslim working class to fill French jobs,and an a now unemployed and unemployable working class is precisely what Gaza is overrun with. Even if he didn’t want to do much to help he could still avoid hurting. For example by making it clear to the Palestinians that ultimately the number of Palestinians killed is going to be whatever number Israel wants it to be: contrary to their fantasies there is no deus ex machina in the works. That alone would be tremendous in getting the Gazans in particular to stop provoking the Israelis. Particularly since there is a substantial minority within Gaza that wants a ground invasion on the mistaken belief that either:

    a) They could win such a conflict
    b) That if say 50k of them die the world will be forced to intervene

    People who stand up for morality, human rights and human decency are the political realists that work to try and disabuse Palestinians of their expectations and towards a reasonable solution. For example many Palestinians in particular believe that an Algeria type solution is possible. France could be an asset in explaining how much different the relative strengths of the parties were than what the situation was between the FLN and the Pied-Noirs. They could then turn to an honest conversation about when and how France was easily successful in colonization when they were mainly interested in territory or resources. That sort of conversation would save many many lives. Palestinians political awareness began in the 1920s so they have mainly seen decolonization and thus tend to believe that such a thing is inevitable rather than situational.

    Though when you see the way the Israeli forces act, they do rather resemble the Martians in War of the Worlds and Mars Attacks.

    War of the Worlds and Mars Attacks the policy was simple annihilation. If Jews were doing that the Palestinians would have been gone in Israel proper in ’49 in the occupied territories in ’67. I think you should consider your rhetoric. That sort of rhetoric is precisely the problem with a Hollande et al.

  50. JeffB
    January 15, 2015, 12:41 am

    @American

    JeffB: What would be the reason to turn on the Jews. Her policy is to implement the idea of a moo-culture for France.
    ”>>>>>>>>>>>

    You think far right ‘ purity’ nationalist don’t consider Jews to be as alien to their nation as Muslims?

    Yes. Right now her concern is refusal to assimilate and adopt French values. For example the Republican ideals. Another example is living in segregated ghettos. French Muslims in 2015 do that (though honestly I’d blame the French Catholics for that more than the Muslims but Le Pen blames the Muslims) while French Jews do not. French Jews mostly don’t wear distinctive clothing and the most distinctive piece of clothing because it isn’t a sign of female submission to authority is not as offensive.

    Which is not to say that they may not consider the Jews alien but they don’t consider them as alien. Moreover the French Jews who are heavily assimilated are the models that she is likely to point to i.e. you don’t have to be Catholic to be French look at those Jews… The less assimilated French Jews are the ones with far and away the strongest ties to Israel for religious reasons.

    Moreover she hates the liberal media which is for Jews right now the biggest enemy they face in France. The constant daily picking at Israel undermines them far more than say Jews having to import kosher meat would.

    The minute the Zionist and Israel shit stirring against Arabs and Islam is no longer useful to their agenda they will get rid of the zios and Jews too.

    I don’t think she needs Jewish help “shit stirring against Arabs”. I think she needs Jewish help as a positive example minority. Which is BTW one of the keys roles that Jews played in the USA which helped Jews become white people here.

    You are being had, but carry on, pay no attention to the warnings, just dont whine later when they go after you too..

    Fair enough. If Jews side with Le Pen like they have with the conservatives and the FN turns on them, we were warned by the left and didn’t listen.

  51. JeffB
    January 15, 2015, 8:36 am

    @Shingo

    JeffB: Israel has been vacuuming up the rest of the diaspora while American Judaism melts away.

    Shingo: On the contrary. More and more and jumping the sinking Zionists ship back into the diaspora

    Nope. We’ve been through this before. The only change is that the numbers for 2014 are out and they are even better than the 2013 numbers were. Net migration among the Israelis and expats is down to 2400. What’s happening is that now that Israel has a large expat community with ties to Israel living abroad you have a group of of people who can easily return to Israel. The same way that people in Israel for the last few generations were able to move back to their home or nearby countries which is what created the outflow since 1948.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-emigration-rates-at-all-time-low/

    More and more it is looking like 2000 is going to be the all time high for flow out of Israel. Absolutely Israelis are migratory, but on balance they they like being Israeli at least as much as they like living in Western European countries. My suspicion is that as Israel’s population gets more religious those numbers drop further. It is much harder being orthodox in the USA or Europe than in Israel. And you are not seeing any flow back at all to Muslim countries.

    You may wish for Israel not to work, but it is working.

    • Shingo
      January 15, 2015, 3:49 pm

      Yes we have gone through this before Jeff and you were wrong before as you are now.

      The number for 2014 show that the nett decrease of Jews through immigration remains constant. More Jews are leaving than arriving. So while emigration rates are low, they are higher than immigration. The best you can argue is that things are less bad in that regard, not that anything has been reversed.

      What’s happening is that now that Israel has a large expat community with ties to Israel living abroad you have a group of of people who can easily return to Israel

      Except that this expat community has repeatedly expressed no desire to do so.

      Keep scraping that barrel Jeff. The Israel project is a train wreck.

      • JeffB
        January 15, 2015, 4:03 pm

        @Shingo

        I’ve presented the data and it refutes what you are saying. Increasing expat flow in. Decreasing outflows since 2000. You can ignore the data but that’s what you are doing.

      • Shingo
        January 15, 2015, 4:39 pm

        I’ve presented the data and it refutes what you are saying.

        No you haven’t. You made a claim without any data to back it up and you effectively agree that emigration continues to outpace immigration.

        Increasing expat flow in. Decreasing outflows since 2000.

        But continued nett outflow regardless. You can’t argue that a decreased negative number means a nett positive growth in numbers.

        That’s a mathematical absurdity.

      • Whizdom
        January 15, 2015, 4:04 pm

        There is a lot of bounce back. Particularly among the educated and skilled emigrants. They can’t take it there. Empty homes in Jerusalem. Big issue in the housing cost crisis.

      • Shingo
        January 15, 2015, 4:53 pm

        Empty homes in Jerusalem. Big issue in the housing cost crisis.

        Extraordinary. Empty homes in Jerusalem yet an increase in homelessness.

  52. Whizdom
    January 15, 2015, 5:14 pm

    Yeah, a lot of expats buy property, living there a few months and then they bug out. Income inequality is a very publicly discussed issue in Israel, much more than here in the US. If it weren’t for the external and existential crises, it would probably be the issue in the upcoming elections.

    • Mooser
      January 19, 2015, 3:08 pm

      “Yeah, a lot of expats buy property, living there a few months and then they bug out.”

      And gee whiz, Whizdom, do you know why they do that? I don’t think they spend all that money just to get tired of the place and leave. What happens when a Jew buys property in “Israel”

      Oh crap, are we talking “Israel” or the Occupied territories, where they sell land they don’t own? It’s impossible to talk about the place, nobody knows where it is.
      Sorry I brought it up.

      • Whizdom
        January 19, 2015, 3:24 pm

        Well, the title insurance company was skeptical about the deeds, but who is gonna argue with the Aulde Testament? But, with a big enough deposit into Banco Leumi, which until recently would hide your assets from the IRS, it was all good. The risk premium was offset by the tax advantages, a sweet deal.
        The problem is, the place is unliveable, more different kinds of nuts than the bar at the King Cole room at the St Regis, saying’. And the smell of the place, oyy. So, we go back for a week around Passover, send the kids to the beach. Place is empty rest of the year.

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