BDS could cost Israel $4.7 billion a year

Activism
on 94 Comments

Do you wonder why Benjamin Netanyahu is declaring war on BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions), and Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban are holding a secret Las Vegas conference to fight it, and Yair Lapid is saying that the people behind BDS plotted 9/11, and Ari Shavit is calling the movement “evil and sophisticated”?

Well, here’s why. The Financial Times has published a big, and somewhat balanced, article on the rapid rise of BDS that includes two stunning financial numbers showing how powerful the nonviolent movement for justice in Israel/Palestine is becoming.

The most important information is deep inside the FT article:

However, there are signs that Israel’s disquiet over BDS is genuine. This week an Israeli financial newspaper covered a leaked government report estimating that BDS could cost Israel’s economy $1.4bn a year. The estimate included lower exports from the settlements in keeping with the EU’s plans to begin labelling goods made there — not part of the BDS movement, although many Israelis lump the two things together. The Rand Corporation, the US think-tank, says the costs could be more than three times higher: $47bn over 10 years.

This is the true story of BDS. It’s having a giant impact. CNN covered that Rand study the other day — a $15 billion hit from BDS, largely because of its success in Europe — but the same day the New York Times runs a piece on the French telecom denying it supports BDS, and there’s not a word in the NY Times article about either the Rand study or the the leaked Israeli government figures. (Jodi Rudoren did write about the Rand study back on June 8, but somehow found its $47 billion cost-of-BDS estimate unworthy of mention.)  Rudoren’s slanted coverage of BDS — reporting on the Orange surrender, while leaving out the dangerous billion-dollar-numbers that created a stir in Israeli and other media — proves once again that there is no daylight between her “reporting” and Hasbara Central.

 

94 Responses

  1. a blah chick
    June 14, 2015, 1:13 pm

    This is the fatal flaw with the recent anti-BDS legislation: you can’t forced people to do business with you. That is why it’s useless. All corporations care about is making money and pleasing the stockholders, and if doing business with country y or business x is costing you money you dump them. It’s nothing personal it’s just business.

    Call me cynical but I see all this anti BDS legislation as planning for the next political fundraiser. Not going to work.

    • ritzl
      June 14, 2015, 1:52 pm

      Heh. “Buy our products or you’re an anti-semite!” does have a catchy-grabby ring to it as a marketing slogan. Great for billboards.

      • amigo
        June 14, 2015, 2:22 pm

        “Heh. “Buy our products or you’re an anti-semite!” Ritzl

        Well , as I see it , it will be a reason to be a “Proud anti semite”.

      • echinococcus
        June 14, 2015, 3:46 pm

        Simpler. Trade agreement and legislation forcing all importers to only bring Israeli products.
        Don’t laugh too loud: there is no limit to Zionist demands or to our subservience.

      • CigarGod
        June 15, 2015, 11:47 am

        That one has legs. Using it!

    • Hostage
      June 15, 2015, 1:23 pm

      All corporations care about is making money and pleasing the stockholders, and if doing business with country y or business x is costing you money you dump them. It’s nothing personal it’s just business.

      It isn’t just that. The EU governments have advised citizens that doing business in the illegal settlements can expose them to legal risks in EU courts and the companies and banks doing business there suddenly can’t get insurance or reinsurance. In any event, if your publicly owned company’s future profits are exposed to the risk of civil or criminal forfeiture you are required to advise current and potential investors about that in your disclosures under the securities laws in most jurisdictions.

    • Annie Robbins
      June 16, 2015, 3:34 am

      This is the fatal flaw with the recent anti-BDS legislation: you can’t force people to do business with you. That is why it’s useless.

      speaking of which..taxi has a killer post up (at her new blog)
      link to platosguns.wordpress.com on this very subject.

      BDS haters are out in force. They’re everywhere you look on mainstream media and they’re everywhere on alternative net media. It is obvious that a sudden deluge of seething hasbara on the information highway is being unleashed by Sheldon Adleson’s millions and media minions. And they’re all weirdly jittery yet angry that BDS got this far – they’re furiously scribbling away belittling fisty tirades at the tangible upsurge of BDS’s popularity around the globe. They’re bearing their teeth menacingly and demonizing and smearing with accusations of… well, you know what – they’re hating on BDS and whinging and lying through rattled teeth and fuming nostrils.

      Wonderful to witness this level of desperate hasbara.

      more at the link…

  2. weiss
    June 14, 2015, 1:50 pm

    “Jodi Rudoren’s slanted coverage of BDS — reporting on the Orange surrender, while leaving out dangerous bilion-dollar-numbers that created a stir in Israeli and other media — proves once again that there is no daylight between her “reporting” and Hasbara Central. ”

    The “Wicked Witch of The East” strikes again !!!

    How can any sane Jew possibly support this Apartheid madness?

    • Kay24
      June 15, 2015, 7:03 am

      I suppose that makes Geller the “Wicked Witch of the West”.

      • Rob Roy
        June 15, 2015, 3:18 pm

        Hi, Kay24
        It’s no secret that everyone knows exactly who and what Geller is, but Rudoren is accepted by many as a good reporter and people are often incapable of taking her pieces apart and/or knowing what she is leaving out and thus think they are reading “facts.” Therefore, she’s the most dangerous. She’s insidious.

      • Kay24
        June 15, 2015, 4:01 pm

        I agree. Geller is a well know Islamaphobe and known for her racist views. Rudoren writes for a so called prestigious publication and is indeed dangerous. Her strong pro Israeli views corrupt her article, but only those who know that can see that.

      • weiss
        June 16, 2015, 2:34 pm

        LOL!!!

        Meanwhile Rudoren’s home in Israel is owned by the NY Times. Since 1984 New York Times bureau chiefs have lived in a house that was acquired for the Times by then Jerusalem Bureau Chief Thomas Friedman (now the Times’ lead foreign policy columnist). The building originally belonged to a Palestinian family forced out in Israel’s 1947-49 founding war. Israel afterward prevented the family from returning and reclaiming their home. Therefore, Times’ bureau chiefs are in the strange position of living in a home that was stolen from Palestinians (acquiring property by violent conquest is illegal in today’s world).

        Hypocrites….

    • alen
      January 14, 2016, 7:17 pm

      “How can any sane Jew possibly support this Apartheid madness?”

      Easy answer, we don’t.

      Ziocaine however, makes one a bit loopy.

  3. ritzl
    June 14, 2015, 2:09 pm

    $4.7B is about 1.5% of Israeli GDP ($273B). Economies live and die, governments fall, programs go unfunded, and deficits mushroom (Israel is already running one) on 2-3% fluctuations.

    No wonder they made such a fuss about the Orange announcement.

    And BDS is only starting to gain traction…!!

    To touch on Israel’s massive desalination initiative again, if this level of BDS effect is sustainable and/or buildable, it could have a major impact on how large and rapid that initiative becomes. The current government would potentially have to make some hard tradeoffs — water or settlements or capricious foreign adventures or massive sovereign debt or low-income housing or cutting back on the safety net or some other popular “goodies.”

    Another 1% and life in Israel changes dramatically for a large portion of the population.

    Great news!

    • Citizen
      June 14, 2015, 3:07 pm

      @ ritizi

      Right now Israel gets $3.2 B yearly in direct US aid, plus interest. Obama just promised Netanyahu that would be upped to $4.5 B yearly, plus interest (as part of the package he promised so Netanyahu would tone down his attack on the Iran Deal until its inked.) I also read that israel’s weapons industry (25% subsidized by US tax dollars in direct competition with US MIC) brings Israel $5.5 B yearly. Another figure is that Detroit is costing the fed government $3.5 B per year. How do those figures fit in with yours? Just asking.

      • ritzl
        June 14, 2015, 3:31 pm

        Hi Citizen. It’s been a long time since I tried to untangle that morass, but to me, that looks right. Others may be able to be more specific.

        I think, though, that all that is already folded into Israel’s GDP, so the BDS effect is a top-line net number.

        But you’re right to imply (I think that’s what you did. :) ) that the US taxpayers could be called upon to subsidize future BDS effect/losses such that BDS would/could have zero net effect on Israel. What’s a hundred more schools (give or take) in Detroit to the US taxpayer anyway?

        And I, and I’m sure you, have actually seen that argument made with a straight face. Closely paraphrased, “It’s just a drop in the bucket for US taxpayers.”

    • Sibiriak
      June 14, 2015, 11:56 pm

      ritzl: $4.7B is about 1.5% of Israeli GDP ($273B). Economies live and die, governments fall […] on 2-3% fluctuations.
      —————————

      Governments and ideologies can also be strengthened by sanctions etc. Case in point: Russia, where I live. Something to take into consideration.

      • echinococcus
        June 15, 2015, 11:11 am

        Sibiriak,

        That’s a given. Boycott is a godsend for governments, as it exacerbates popular support. It’s already having that effect in Israel. Consider, however, that in the case of the Zionists the aim is not so much to weaken that popular support as to put that population in pariah status culturally, sever its imagined European connection, make them individually undesirable in Europe. Economical effects? These guys rule money itself but remain very shaky. A significant minority may check out.

      • ritzl
        June 17, 2015, 8:30 pm

        Great point, Sibiriak.

        I was guided by what has become as US truism, Carville’s “It’s the economy, stupid!” and traditional economic-political effect here in the US.

        But you’re right there are other factors involved.

        If it hasn’t been done already, I bet there’s a dissertation topic in, say, “The Effect of External Economic Influences on Domestic Political Dynamics; A Multivariate Analysis.”

        The axes could be:

        1) Type of Government – Athenian ▶ Parliamentary (multi-party)▶Parliamentary (2-3 party)▶Bicameral▶Oligarchy▶Authoritarian▶Totalitarian

        2) Percent of GDP from Exports (i.e. level of self-sufficiency)

        3) Percent GDP Effect of External Influences

        There’s probably an ellipsoid of “maximum change effect” in there revolving around Parliamentary▶Oligarchy, bounded by say, 30%-70% export based, and 5%-10% GDP hit.

        Russia and the US would fall on different places on that plot (again, great point!). I think Israel is smack dab dead center of that ellipsoid and is susceptible to being influenced externally, unless it goes full frontal fascist for the whole world to see. But that would be the end of biz-as-usual itself.

        It’ll be interesting to see where the political off-ramps/trades arise for Israel while they rage to have it all, but know (deep down??) they can’t. I just hope Palestinians don’t get killed because Israelis get peevish as they are increasingly, assertively reminded that they are expected to do the right and moral thing.

    • CigarGod
      June 15, 2015, 11:53 am

      “Orange” was an awesome event!
      Every CEO on the planet knows where that tiger trap is now. They will quiety step around it…and take measures to avoid business with those who placed it there.

  4. Krauss
    June 14, 2015, 2:13 pm

    BDS is having a giant impact alright, Saban/Adelson are now focusing on it single-mindedly, the attacks on the UC system and now the affair with Orange.

    I think 2015 will be the year when BDS truly hit the mainstream when the history of the movement is written.

    • Citizen
      June 14, 2015, 3:11 pm

      Everybody I know thinks, if at all, that BDS is a new competitor to Huggies and Pampers for babies bottoms. Americans generally could care less; that’s my experience–I wish it was different.

  5. amigo
    June 14, 2015, 2:14 pm

    All products coming out of Israel or the occupied territories should be treated the same way as cigarettes are. Each package should have a warning something like !! , ” Use of this product is a danger to health and it should be accompanied by images of Palestinian children being beaten by Israeli soldiers or Palestinian homes being demolished or images of the massive destruction in Gaza.

    A picture is worth etc etc.

  6. Bornajoo
    June 14, 2015, 5:52 pm

    Great idea Amigo. A bds health warning .+1

    In 2011, 500,000 Israelis protested the cost of living by taking to the streets symbolised by the price of cottage cheese

    Only a tiny fraction of that number have ever marched to end the occupation or for Palestinian rights

    If bds can get the price of cottage cheese to double this would end the occupation in a flash. Hit them where it hurts; in the pocket.

    • Marnie
      June 15, 2015, 12:06 am

      As the saying goes from your mouth to God’s ear – here’s hoping!!

  7. ckg
    June 14, 2015, 6:05 pm

    As someone who is passionate about human rights and especially LGBT rights, I have always been impressed by the enormous influence and power of HRC’s company ratings. It is difficult to overstate the importance of these ratings in understanding the role of large corporations leading the push for LGBT equality.

    The cause of human rights, including those of Palestinians, would benefit from a similar ratings system. I would love to see a press report of a NGO giving HP, Caterpillar, etc, failing human rights ratings.

  8. Laurent Weppe
    June 14, 2015, 6:42 pm

    Ok, let’s compare the potential cost of BDS to the actual cost of the settlements:

    From 1970 to 2008, the occupation yielded around 39 billion shekels offsets by 104 billion shekels in subsidies to the settlers and 316 billion shekels in “security costs”.
    The net loss -381 billion shekels, nearly 100 billion dollars- is higher than Israel’s 2015 328 billion shekel budget, and that doesn’t take into account the 17 billion dollars spent building the damn things and the subsidies and “security costs” during the 2008-2015 period, during which settlements went through dramatic growth from housing 500.000 people to around 800.000.

    So, if BDS which could potentially cost annually to Israel 2-3% of the sums it already spent on its post-stamp-sized colonial empire represents such an existential economic threat… Why the fuck aren’t its opponents also clamoring for the immediate dismantling of the israeli-tax-payers-money-guzzling settlements?

  9. DoubleStandard
    June 14, 2015, 7:16 pm

    What was the methodology of the RAND study? I would be very interested in seeing that. It’s unlikely that consumer boycotts are suddenly going to cost Israel billions of dollars. Not when trade with the EU and Asia is proceeding as well as it is, and not when US aid to Israel is totally secure (from a political perspective). The settlement labeling is alarming, but it hasn’t happened yet, and it’s possible that Netanyahu will issue a settlement freeze to try to stave it off and buy some time. Maybe he won’t given the proclivities of his fragile coalition. I don’t know.

    Even if the settlement labeling does happen, it’s likely that the broader economic effects will be totally negligible because: (1) very few Israeli products originate in the West Bank; (2) for these very few products, it’s unlikely that many consumers will forgo products they want because of politics.

    We’ll see. I wouldn’t be so triumphant if I were you guys. As radical Islam rages on with no signs of abating, and as the countries around Israel disintegrate, the Jewish state’s position is only going to strengthen.

    I think this is just the Wizard of Oz yelling — it seems all powerful because it wins media attention disproportionate to its numbers, but yank away the curtain and its just one weak fraud. Whenever I mention being from Israel in Europe or the United States, I generally get nothing but positive reactions.

    • eljay
      June 15, 2015, 8:10 am

      || DoubleStandard: … I think this is just the Wizard of Oz yelling — it seems all powerful … but yank away the curtain and its just one weak fraud. … ||

      You could not have provided a better description of Israel. Strip away the curtain of political, military, economic and financial support and you’re left with a weak, unjust, immoral, colonialist and supremacist fraud.

      • DoubleStandard
        June 15, 2015, 11:42 am

        Well, that’s true for a lot of countries. But support for Israel isn’t going anywhere in the near future, even from the EU where anti-Israel sentiment is most widespread.

      • amigo
        June 15, 2015, 4:30 pm

        “Well, that’s true for a lot of countries. But support for Israel isn’t going anywhere in the near future, even from the EU where anti-Israel sentiment is most widespread.” DS

        Declare your borders .We might find it easier to luv you ,if we could only tie you down.

      • eljay
        June 15, 2015, 5:44 pm

        || DoubleStandard: … But support for Israel isn’t going anywhere in the near future … ||

        That doesn’t change the reality of the fraud.

      • Annie Robbins
        June 15, 2015, 6:48 pm

        support for Israel isn’t going anywhere in the near future.

        considering the country’s reputation is one of the 3 worst in the world it doesn’t have much further to drop wouldn’t you say?

        last i heard support for ISIS isn’t going anywhere in the near future either.

      • DoubleStandard
        June 15, 2015, 8:42 pm

        That should just show you Annie — people hate it, yet support remains strong. Maybe that’s because government officials understand Israel’s value even if the common people have been taught by the media to sympathize with people who have nothing but contempt for them.

      • Mooser
        June 16, 2015, 11:56 am

        “Maybe that’s because government officials understand Israel’s value even if the common people have been taught by the media to sympathize with people who have nothing but contempt for them.”

        Oh, I see, there’s “common people” and then there are, well “Zionists” (cough), And who wants to be one of the easily deluded “common people”?

      • RoHa
        June 16, 2015, 8:23 pm

        Mooser, these are high and mighty matters, well beyond the wit of you unlettered peasants.

        Even though quite a lot of it resembles the agricultural by-products you shovel out of the byres.

    • SQ Debris
      June 15, 2015, 4:03 pm

      DS opines that BDS is a weak fraud.. huh? That’s why bibi says it’s an existential threat? That’s why Adelson et al are having semi-secret meetings in Vegas? Yer smokin yer own shit dude.

      • CigarGod
        June 15, 2015, 4:30 pm

        That’s why I call these guys, Dudes.”
        They show up talking about their new hat, shiney boots, drinking ability and magic with the ladies. Then, they try mount up on the right side of their horse. Trigger likes to make them hop on on leg for awhile until they are able to swing their other leg over. Then he does a big exhale…and the dude and the saddle swing under the belly. Of course dude blames the horse for not knowing how to ride. Dessert is finally served when the dude shuts up and keeps changing his seating position…so the blisters on his ass dont all form in the same spot. I get a second dessert when they pay me for the experience.

        Yeah, ds, hophmi, jon s, ivri, catalan…and the rest, sure do bring a show with them.

  10. Whizdom
    June 14, 2015, 7:30 pm

    Ironically, Israeli companies are divesting from the West Bank, Ahava, Israel Africa, Sodastream. There was a little controversy, but Israelis seem to accept it.

  11. Frankie P
    June 14, 2015, 8:03 pm

    Double Standard:

    “I think this is just the Wizard of Oz yelling — it seems all powerful because it wins media attention disproportionate to its numbers, but yank away the curtain and its just one weak fraud.”

    I wonder why Uncle Sheldon, Haim the shame, and Nutty Netanyahu spook so easily; they are rich powerful spin meisters, chosen leaders of the world of economics and politics, why would they be so upset and scared of a weak fraud hiding behind a curtain.

    More cognative dissonance from the Zionist corner, something we’ve come to expect.

    Frankie P

  12. Citizen
    June 14, 2015, 9:16 pm

    Israel issues its own preemptive report on its massacre in #Gaza of 2014, just ahead of UN report on same: link to ca.reuters.com

  13. W.Jones
    June 15, 2015, 1:37 am

    What’s the background on that facial expression?
    link to mondoweiss.net

    That looks pretty intense.

  14. Nevada Ned
    June 15, 2015, 2:56 am

    The US gives Israel a lot of aid. It may be complicated to calculate exactly how much that aid is. I recall some years ago that Rashid Khalidi cited the usual figure of $3B/year, but later quoted a much higher number, which I think was $14B. It depends on what is included in aid, I suppose.
    The immediate economic impact of BDS may be modest, but the prospect of more and more boycotts in the future is not modest.
    People in nearly every country in the world support the Palestinians, except in Israel and in the US. (I am speaking of public opinion and not the official position of governments). So the potential future impact of BDS on Israel could be very big.

    The Israelis and their supporters and defenders loudly proclaim that BDS won’t have any big impact. So why are Sheldon Adelson, Haim Saban and others proclaim that Israel faces a big emergency?

    The BDS is a small movement, but it is scaring some of the most powerful men in the world!

  15. Kay24
    June 15, 2015, 7:12 am

    Hit them where it hurts most, after all isn’t it the main purpose of BDS? A huge financial loss is the only way to make Israelis open their eyes and minds to the consequences of breaking international laws, an endless occupation, and acres of illegal settlements. They have been able to keep this occupation going, by organized lies and acting the victim, and despite the bravado shown by hasba rats that it will never hurt them, these facts and numbers seems quite shocking. The “only democracy in the ME” must start behaving like one.

    If BDS is not hurting Israel, Adelson would not bother to put in his dirty money into fighting it.

  16. Sparkle
    June 15, 2015, 9:09 am

    FOLLOW THE DIAMONDS.
    The worst case scenario envisaged by the Rand report estimates a loss of $4.7 billion per year. Targeting settlement products may cause a $300 million reduction in exports. What none of the reports take into account is the impact on Israel’s burgeoning diamond exports which account for 30% of manufacturing exports worth $20 billion gross and $10 billion net per year.
    The Diamond industry in Israel is estimated to generate about $1 billion annually in funding for the Israeli military. Diamond s that fund war crimes are blood diamonds.
    Nothing changes the mind of a jeweler, shareholder or consumer quicker than the prospect of being saddled with blood diamonds linked to Israel’s gross human rights violations.
    The re-branding of the Steinmetz Diamond Group, which funded and supported the Givati war criminals responsible for the Samouni massacre in Gaza, can be directly linked to action by activists in London who exposed the scandal when De Beers put a Forevermark diamond crafted By Steinmetz on display in the Tower of London.
    The default by investors who purchased the Steinmetz Pink diamond from Sotheby’s for a world record $83 million is also believed to be due to linkage to Israeli war crimes.
    The Israeli brand image is utterly toxic for the diamond brand image. The global jewellery industry, lead by such names as De Beers, Signet, Tiffany’s, Cartier, Graff, Chow Tai Fook, Sotheby’s and others, is straining to keep the truth about the extent of Israel’s domination of the industry hidden from the public. Fifty percent of the diamond sold in the US come from Israel. US diamond sales alone add almost $3 billion per year to the Israeli economy.
    In the first three months of 2012 Israel’s diamond exports crashed by 80% due to a major fraud investigation. The damage to the economy was so serious that the authorities, under pressure from the diamond industry, were forced to drop the investigation and reach an agreement with the industry. Israel’s diamond exports declined by 22% in 2012. In 2013 military expenditure was initially cut by $1 billion but this was later restored.
    As more and more people begin to realize that the diamond market is heavily contaminated with diamonds that fund war crimes and crimes against humanity in Palestine the diamond brand image will suffer irreparable damage. Israel’s economy will also be severely damaged. Google Israel’s blood diamonds for a lot more info.

  17. Kay24
    June 15, 2015, 9:40 am

    I feel sorry for the people in Poland, they don’t know what consequences will result from having an Israeli lobby in their parliament. Their occupation begins….

    link to jpost.com

    More about those Israeli caucuses around the world:

    link to israelallies.org

  18. hophmi
    June 15, 2015, 9:57 am

    The most important line is this:

    “Notwithstanding the movement’s triumphant tone — and Israel’s robust reaction — BDS has not been nearly as successful as its supporters claim, nor its opponents fear.”

    You’re a smoke and mirrors campaign.

    • James North
      June 15, 2015, 10:01 am

      Actually, the most important line is this:
      “BDS could cost Israel $4.7 billion a year.”

      • hophmi
        June 15, 2015, 12:11 pm

        “Actually, the most important line is this: ‘BDS could cost Israel $4.7 billion a year.’”

        Is the point of BDS to cost Israel money? $4.7 billion a year is under 3% of Israeli GDP, which is close to $300 billion. About a third of that total is due to the “Instability and Uncertainty” BDS causes. Seems like that’s a claim worth exploring, considering that when Orange’s CEO tried to play that game, it didn’t work out so well. Israel is not South Africa. It’s far more integrated into the world economy. What happens in Israel affects other actors. That’s why Orange’s CEO isn’t pulling out of Israel so fast. Turns out other capital actors aren’t fond of BDS.

        Of course, that doesn’t mean Israel shouldn’t fight BDS; $4.7 billion dollars is $4.7 billion dollars, and spending a few million dollars isn’t a major cost for Israel. The best argument against fighting BDS is that fighting BDS gives BDS free publicity, a view with which I somewhat agree.

        But let’s focus on the cost to Palestinians. The BDS movement is projected to cost the Palestinians more than $2.38 billion by 2024. (126) That may not seem like a lot, but of course, when your GDP is $10 billion a year, it’s a far bigger hit than anything Israel will experience. So one takeaway from the RAND report is that BDS hurts the Palestinians at several times the rate it hurts the Israelis.

        If the Palestinians want to cost Israel money, it would seem from this report that the far more lucrative answer is violence, which is estimated to cost Israel $45 billion a year by 2024, not $15 billion (130). Of course, it would cost the Palestinians more than $9 billion a year by 2024, which is the vast majority of Palestinian GDP (130). So violence doesn’t work.

        If, of course, the point is to find a way forward, the study reiterates a finding that many studies have shown – a peaceful resolution is the best option. “Multiple studies, including our own, clearly demonstrate that a peaceful resolution of the conflict is the best option economically for both Palestinians and Israelis” (145). In a two-state solution, Palestinians would benefit by $9.7 billion dollars and Israel $22.8 billion, but of course, that’s a far, far higher rise for the Palestinians, who are starting from a GDP that is 1/30th of Israel’s (145). So, as the report says, the financial incentive for the Palestinians to “reach an accord” is much greater than Israel’s (145).

        So, James, are you fighting for a peaceful solution by supporting BDS, a strategy that is projected to have little effect on Israeli GDP and a large deleterious effect on the Palestinian economy, instead of advocating a two state solution, a strategy that would have a tremendously positive effect on the Palestinian economy?

        link to rand.org

      • James North
        June 15, 2015, 1:34 pm

        I spent years in apartheid southern Africa and wrote a book against it. In your comment, you could just replace the word “Palestinians” with “black South Africans” and the alleged “deleterious” effect on them of sanctions and you would sound just like defenders of the old South African regime.

        Nelson Mandela and the South African national liberation movement called for sanctions, just like grass-roots organizations in Israel/Palestine call for BDS.

        As you should know, BDS is a nonviolent movement for justice in Israel/Palestine. It takes no position on 1- or 2-states.

      • hophmi
        June 15, 2015, 2:52 pm

        “I spent years in apartheid southern Africa and wrote a book against it. In your comment, you could just replace the word “Palestinians” with “black South Africans” and the alleged “deleterious” effect on them of sanctions and you would sound just like defenders of the old South African regime.

        Nelson Mandela and the South African national liberation movement called for sanctions, just like grass-roots organizations in Israel/Palestine call for BDS.

        As you should know, BDS is a nonviolent movement for justice in Israel/Palestine. It takes no position on 1- or 2-states.”

        Yes, I figured that you’d reply by making a South Africa comparison. It’s very tempting. The arguments on both sides are certainly similar, even if the facts on the ground are completely different; Jews make up a majority between the River and the Sea, Israel is not actually an apartheid state, at least within the 1967 borders, Black South Africans did not kill thousands of white South Africans with suicide terrorism, Israel’s population is made up of the descendants of Holocaust survivors and the descendants of refugees from elsewhere in the Middle East, etc.

        Of course, there are couple of problems with your argument. First of all, there is embedded in your premise that boycotting is ultimately what ended the apartheid government in South Africa. That’s a debatable point. And the opponents of divestment were not limited to the regime. They included Chief Buthelezi. And today, Black South Africans continue to experience endemic poverty, and the country is sliding into racial strife and has experienced xenophobic violence. So when I hear Western activists go on and on about South Africa, without addressing the fact that after apartheid ended, the same activists did little, and certainly nothing comparable, to actually ensure a better life for Black South Africans, I’m reminded that, so often, Western activism is more about Western activists than about the people on the ground, which is why Western activists can be so callous about those people, ignore their problems, and focus on their own activist achievements. This is exactly why I dislike the one-staters. They will not be around if and when the one-state solution results in a lot of dead Jews. They’re callous or ignorant about the consequences of the policies that they advocate.

        But let’s put all of that aside. First of all, you’re not making much progress with BDS, at least not in the United States. The campus South Africa divestment movement in the United States achieved the Michigan and Columbia divestments within a year, and within a decade, Congress had passed anti-apartheid legislation. That will not happen here, James, and you know that. Despite a good five years of intense activism here, the BDS movement has achieved a few student government votes at very liberal campuses in a country with about 2000 colleges, with no prospect of any college actually divesting; not even Hampshire has divested. BDS in the United States is a failure by every measure except those of the BDS activists. It’s purely symbolic. Israel’s economy is far too big for a few billion dollars to make a difference. You’re going to rely on this report; rely on it honestly. The best approach for everyone is a negotiated two state solution. If you’re not supporting that, you’re not supporting peace or justice. You’re supporting a utopia of some kind.

        Though BDS activists continue to stick to these fallacies that BDS is a Palestinian-led movement (it’s produced and driven by Western activists) and that it’s agnostic on the 1ss versus the 2ss, most BDS activists are for a 1ss, or simply support the outlines of a 1ss (full RoR to Israel proper) without actually saying it; they certainly do not support a negotiated accord, and I do not think you can cognizably argue that they do.

      • James North
        June 15, 2015, 3:05 pm

        If the BDS nonviolent movement for justice in Israel/Palestine is so weak and insignificant, why did you just spend time and energy writing a several-hundred-word comment against it?

      • CigarGod
        June 15, 2015, 3:51 pm

        Ha!
        Some argument, dude:

        – Liberation struggles are painful, dont gain critical mass for years and dont result in paradise…so, its just better continue on as we are. –

        Sure am glad to have you punting for the other team.

      • eljay
        June 15, 2015, 3:14 pm

        || hophmi: … This is exactly why I dislike the one-staters. They will not be around if and when the one-state solution results in a lot of dead Jews. … ||

        And a lot of dead non-Jews. As Zio-supremacism has most recently demonstrated, Jews are both able and willing to kill non-Jews. No need for false modesty.

        || They’re callous or ignorant about the consequences of the policies that they advocate. ||

        Zio-supremacists in a nut-shell.

      • SQ Debris
        June 15, 2015, 4:11 pm

        To Hopmeisters pean that BDS will hurt Palestinians:
        “Those who claim that BDS hurts Palestinians are not just making unfounded and unethical claims that fail to understand how resistance is always costly at first. They are also patronizing in telling Palestinians that they understand our interests better than we do. We reject this colonial attitude completely. Nothing hurts the Palestinian people, whether in ‘67′, ‘48 or in exile, as much as Israel’s racist and colonial oppression does.” Omar Barghouti
        link to 972mag.com

      • Mooser
        June 16, 2015, 3:19 pm

        Hophmi, you ever think about “knobbies” or maybe studs? You just don’t seem to be getting any traction.

    • John O
      June 15, 2015, 10:23 am

      That smoke has given Netanyahu and his pals a very bad cough.

    • Nevada Ned
      June 15, 2015, 11:21 am

      The BDS movement gives the average person an opportunity to say, “I don’t approve of Israel’s behavior”. The normal behavior of our “democracy” is that politicians pander to the views of big donors, with Sheldon Adelson as the extreme case. He gave $100M in the last election.
      For the average citizen, $100 is a big donation, and $1,000 is a REALLY big donation. So Adelson can outweigh a million donors at $100 each, or 100,000 donors at $1000 each. That’s how undemocratic it is.

      BDS has been used in the South African anti-apartheid struggle, by Gandhi in the campaign for Indian independence, by Caesar Chavez in the grape boycott, and by Martin Luther King in the Montgomery Bus Boycott. In each of these struggles, the oppressors told themselves (and anyone else who would listen) that the BDS campaign by the oppressed was “a smoke and mirrors campaign”.

      As long ago as 2003, a poll of Europeans found that the #1 country posing the biggest threat to peace is Israel (the US came in #4). For details on the poll, click here. And Israel’s reputation has sunk even lower since 2003 because of Israel’s several large-scale massacres of refugees in Gaza.

      • hophmi
        June 15, 2015, 3:22 pm

        “BDS has been used in the South African anti-apartheid struggle, by Gandhi in the campaign for Indian independence, by Caesar Chavez in the grape boycott, and by Martin Luther King in the Montgomery Bus Boycott.”

        In all three cases, the leaders were non-violent, and non-violence was the chosen popular strategy, and these leaders were the undisputed leaders of their respective movements. That is just not true with the Palestinians, who voted in a terrorist group, have killed thousands with suicide bombing, honor those who kill Jews, and adopt as leaders those who endorse violence, like Marwan Barghouti, and eschew those who do not endorse violence, like Mahmoud Abbas. Just because a group of Palestinian civil society organizations endorsed a strategy, it doesn’t mean that Palestinians have chosen non-violence.

      • Keith
        June 15, 2015, 5:43 pm

        HOPHMI- “That is just not true with the Palestinians…have killed thousands with suicide bombing….”

        This is an outrageous statement and you should be ashamed! The notion that the Palestinians have killed “thousands” of Israeli Jews through suicide bombings is ridiculous. Lets see some numbers and sources. And don’t try to weasel out of this by lumping the Palestinians in with the Israeli supported Islamic State terrorists who have killed thousands of Israel’s “enemies” with US/Israel/Turkey/ Saudi, etc. support.

      • Mooser
        June 16, 2015, 3:22 pm

        ” have killed thousands with suicide bombing, “

        Squelch! Ewww, what’s that smell? Oh, I see, Hophmi has stepped in it again.

    • catalan
      June 15, 2015, 2:05 pm

      “I spent years in apartheid southern Africa and wrote a book against it. – ” James
      Do you think that the sanctions contributed to the fall of white rule? I thought that the standard of living for whites in SA was extremely good despite the sanctions.
      What do you think of South Africa now?
      In practical terms, do you think that 4.7 billion for Israel is enough to make voters vote more left wing?

      • James North
        June 15, 2015, 2:17 pm

        I know that sanctions contributed enormously to the fall of minority rule. Nelson Mandela and many others said so.
        South Africa now is vastly better than it was under apartheid.
        Grass-roots organizations in Palestine have endorsed BDS as the nonviolent way to bring justice to Israel/Palestine. They live there, and they suffer oppression every day. I defer to their judgment.

      • hophmi
        June 15, 2015, 3:27 pm

        “Grass-roots organizations in Palestine have endorsed BDS as the nonviolent way to bring justice to Israel/Palestine. They live there, and they suffer oppression every day. I defer to their judgment.”

        Except, again, this is not a situation where nonviolence has popular support, which was basically true in South Africa, where the Black majority directed comparatively little violence toward whites. The judgment of the Palestinians has been to honor those who kill Jews, elect Hamas, and reject leaders who condemn violence like Abbas. BDS may be your chosen tactic, but for Palestinians, it is clearly just another tactic among many, including violence. You cannot impute your motives to them.

      • amigo
        June 15, 2015, 4:14 pm

        “Do you think that the sanctions contributed to the fall of white rule? I thought that the standard of living for whites in SA was extremely good despite the sanctions.” catalan.

        What a silly remark.Are you suggesting those “Whites ” just upped and left for no apparent reason .

        You might read the following to get you up to speed on how the Anti Apartheid movement,s sanctions went a long way to putting the National Party out of the business of Apartheid.Shown below are the last two Paragraphs for the summary.

        “De Klerk, in his own book, gives credence to the overall international movement. He notes that never before in history had a country had to deal with the “comprehensive international campaign” against the country (de Klerk 114). Not only were the economic stresses demanding, the restrictions on travel, notably on fly-over and landing rights for South African airlines, and the cold-shoulder many white South Africans received while traveling abroad in the 1980s all contributed to the isolation. He then describes how the sanctions net began to tighten in on the country. Later, he stressed the impact that the loss of financial support was taking on the country as a whole and that it became a “source of social unrest” (de Klerk 183). De Klerk then describes the need for financial stability in order to keep everyone, including the ANC, satisfied with the progress of the negotiations to end apartheid. Perhaps de Klerk cannot see the lines between the causes and effects, but it is most obvious that the reason South Africa is in financial doldrums is because of the anti-apartheid movement coupled with economic sanctions. Thus by his own reasoning, it would be safe to assume that the world-wide movement against the National Party had an undeniable and to some extent a very palpable link between the actual removal of the National Party from power and sanctions that were employed.

        The view championed by Nelson Mandela has a significant amount of empirical and scholarly evidence that would support his view that the international anti-apartheid movement against the National Party-led South African government was successful. Despite the campaign against apartheid not always meeting the requirements discussed earlier for successful sanctions, the political and overall isolation felt by South Africans, which was manufactured by the global anti-apartheid campaign, made up for the lapses in economic sanctions. Eventually the ‘total onslaught’ that the government and white society felt they were under, beginning in the 1960s, encompassed the riots caused by students within the country and the ANC’s fight from exile. The international sanction movement against the South African government was the final push that brought the National Party to near bankruptcy and brought them to the negotiating table with the ANC. While each factor of ‘total onslaught’ played a role, the global anti-apartheid movement was a significant dynamic in causing the turning the tide against the white-minority government and eventually bringing to power a true democracy on the southern tip of the African continent.

        link to theafricanfile.com

        Oh and please don,t respond with a cut and pasted “Out of context ” one liner .That,s why I provided the summary.

      • catalan
        June 15, 2015, 5:04 pm

        “Oh and please don,t respond with a cut and pasted “Out of context ” one liner .That,s why I provided the summary. – ” amigo
        I got nothing. I just know that there are enough greedy people that would short Israeli stocks to make a bundle if things are going to be so awful. I myself wouldn’t be above it.
        Perhaps you and James should short the tel aviv 25 index and then do all kinds of good with the money you made. Or is betting on your own forecast too risky for you?

      • amigo
        June 15, 2015, 8:10 pm

        “Perhaps you and James should short the tel aviv 25 index and then do all kinds of good with the money you made -” catalan.

        Do you have to frame every response in monetary terms , you poor sad sod.

        Did you even read the summary.Too lazy or scared you might find you know jack s–t about South Africa.Your efforts to convince people who are committed to finding a peaceful outcome to the I/P conflict through BDS are feeble at best but I suppose you have to do what hasbara central orders.Independent thinking not allowed.The dumbing down of the zionist mind is fun to watch.

      • Memphis
        June 16, 2015, 12:06 am

        Well you know the … what Hophmi? violence is a legitimate and perfectly acceptable tool to rid oneself of occupation, and gain basic human rights. And I for one support any tool available to those trying to gain their basic human rights. And if that happens to include violence, well, I think Malcolm X said it best, something about chickens coming home to roost, and never being sad, but being glad. Love that man. If one is denying another human rights, with violence, oppression, occupation, rape, plunder, murder, property theft, destruction of property, demolition of homes, shit, the list goes on and on, the oppressed absolutely has the right to use violence to end said violations. You’e a piece of shit for judging those who are merely fighting for their human rights. Talk about double standards. Do you condemn Jews for using violence in resisting the nazis? Do you condemn the early zionists for using violence to achieve their aims? Doubtful. You suck as a human being

      • echinococcus
        June 16, 2015, 2:55 am

        Memphis,

        Do you condemn Jews for using violence in resisting the nazis? Do you condemn the early zionists for using violence to achieve their aims? Doubtful.

        When asking questions to Hophmi you should always consider that on top of his other disabilities, our friend is afflicted with Zionism.

        So the answer to those two questions is different.

        In the first case, of armed resistance to Nazism, as in the case of the Warsaw Ghetto and the general Warsaw insurrections, the Zionist reaction is one of scorn, faintly camouflaged by forced lip service. Those doing the fighting and the dying were generally from the Workers’ Bund, absolutely opposed to the Zionist nonsense. The leader of the Warsaw Ghetto insurrection and one of the very few survivors of both uprisings, Dr. Marek Edelman, later also a courageous fighter against the late CP government and SU revisionists, was also a great ally of the Palestinian Resistance. He had nothing but contempt for the Zionist nationalist riffraff. While he received the highest awards including the French Légion d’Honneur, the only honor shown by the Zionists to this great Pole who still called himself Jewish was a series of attempts to discredit his name.

        As for the terrorists who went to Palestine to oppress and dislodge the natives, those who fought against the British during WWII, murdered Western diplomats, etc., of course Hophmi approves… I’ve known many kids who grow up like him and dream all their life to be like one of those murderers.

      • CigarGod
        June 16, 2015, 9:28 am

        Good details.

  19. Kay24
    June 15, 2015, 10:38 am

    BDS or some other reason?

    “Louvre Museum, other French sites refuse to book Israeli students’ visit
    French governor asks prosecution office to probe the incident over suspicions of illegal discrimination.

    Jean-Francois Carenco, the governor of the Ile-de-France region with includes Paris and its environs, has asked the prosecutor’s office to launch an investigation over suspicions of illegal discrimination against a group of Tel Aviv University art-history students, France’s Liberation newspaper has reported.”

    Haaretz

    • Walid
      June 15, 2015, 11:38 am

      Kay, the Liberation article mentions something about time-slot approvals requests for tours being automated and a couple of other reasons why the TA student group request was rejected. Apparently demand for time slots for groups exceed the museum’s availability. The group’s teacher then filed a time-slot request using false names such as Abu Dhabi and the affirmative reply came back from the Museum within a few hours or a few minutes.

      Israelis using the phony Abu Dhabi name is actually dirty pool being played in light of Abu Dhabi having paid The Louvre $550 million for the rights to open a Louvre branch in Abu Dhabi and has spent another $750 million building the museum scheduled to open this year. So it was only natural that the Louvre would grant approval to Abu Dhabi students within 15 minutes of the phony requests.

      I think it’s a minor problem since the 12 students were not refused access to the Museum or the chapel but simply refused the groupie-desired “time slots” and the Zionists as usual, jumped on the occasion to milk the story for whatever they could get out of it. The museum gets about 10 million visitors/year and I don’t think they can be bothered to refuse entry to 12 arts students from TA.

      In the end, Israel will get egg all over its face from this story.

      • Kay24
        June 15, 2015, 12:56 pm

        Oh they can be real drama queens, whining about someone or the other making them victims once again. The boys always cries wolf.

      • Walid
        June 15, 2015, 8:53 pm

        Kay, the Louvre and Sainte-Chapelle people are saying they get an average of 400 daily requests for group reservations with most days and specific visiting hours busier than others. Nothing was preventing the 12 students and their teacher from entering both sites individually by waiting 45 minutes in line like everybody else. The groupie reservation requests must have been to get in at a cheaper admission price if not altogether free as for EU students.

  20. ivri
    June 15, 2015, 11:16 am

    As much as I can remember Israel`s relatively short history has been accompanied throughout with dire threats from its many opponents. Just few milestones (out of many):
    1948: The new country has no chance against 6 Arab armies
    !967: Nasser: The end of Israel is near
    1973: An Arab oil embargo and boycott threats to all countries and companies that trade with Israel
    2000: The rise of Hezbollah. Nasrallah: Israel is weaker than a spider web
    2001: Israel can have no answer to the Second Intifada given the easy access to it from the West-Bank and the flood of suicide-bombing volunteers.
    2009: The new US president, Obama, gives a speech in Cairo. The Islamic world: The Us is about to shift away from Israel.
    2011: Iran`s first nuclear plant is revealed. Iranian Parliament speaker: Tel-Aviv will burn
    2014: Hamas: Israel has no answer to the missiles and mortars from tunnels in Gaza

    And now 2015: The BDS will strangulate Israel`s economy. So if History is a guide…..

    • eljay
      June 15, 2015, 1:39 pm

      || ivri: As much as I can remember Israel`s relatively short history has been accompanied throughout with dire threats from its many opponents. ||

      Committing (war) crimes with impunity for almost 70 years (and counting) is bound to make an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state some enemies.

      || So if History is a guide….. ||

      …threats made against Israel are not existential, despite the usual Zio-supremacist assertion that threats made against Israel are existential. (This is consistent with Israel being the safest place in the world for Jews even though it is perpetually on the verge of being wiped off the map and pushed into the sea.)

    • amigo
      June 15, 2015, 3:13 pm

      ” So if History is a guide…..”.ivri.

      So try doing something different.What you are at ain,t working.

      Perpetual wailing about being the victim does not equate with being the aggressor.It never has and never will.Tell us ivri , when did zionists collective national suicide tendencies first start.

    • Qualtrough
      June 15, 2015, 10:42 pm

      ivri- Algeria was a French département for over 100 years, wherein French citizens enjoyed rights vastly superior to the natives. And then in less than 10 years it all fell apart. Shit happens.

    • echinococcus
      June 16, 2015, 3:05 am

      Ivri,

      How I share your pain about the dire threats to the existence of Zionism. And today comes the worst: refusal of a free visit booking by a faultily automated reservation system in an-ti-se-mi-tic France, of all Satanic places!

      Merciless vengeance will be extracted, from the middle-aged lady in charge of bookings at the Sainte-Chapelle and the Louvre computer programmer. I wouldn’t be surprised if both are sacked and their heads offered on silver platters by a kneeling, penitent Hollande. Another existential threat averted.

  21. Hugo Pharr
    June 15, 2015, 4:00 pm

    Bearing in mind that politicians worldwide have,to their shame,allowed this systematic destruction of Palestine, I support any means which will hurt this regime.
    It’s time that an international BDS campaign was cranked up to hurt israel where it will be felt..in the pocket. Every single person needs to do what they can to make sure that israel and it’s produce are poisonous, toxic and unacceptable.
    Political avenues are pointless, as experience has shown, therefore it is up to individuals to blacklist everything israeli, in an effort to fight back.
    It’s obvious that international law does not apply to a rogue state….it’s up to humanity to do all we can to hold israel and it’s zionist leaders to account.

  22. Shmuel
    June 16, 2015, 11:29 am

    I’ve always pooh-poohed the potential economic impact of BDS, counting more on the psychological impact, especially among Israel’s Eurocentric elite, but the report in the “Israeli financial paper” (Haaretz/The Marker) this week pointed out that even a relatively small direct impact could mean the difference between growth and recession, with far-reaching implications for the Israeli economy.

    • CigarGod
      June 16, 2015, 11:46 am

      Yes.
      We dont need to target everything.
      Targetting the segments that give us the biggest bang for the buck, works.

      • Sparkle
        June 16, 2015, 12:53 pm

        Precisely why the diamond industry should be the No. 1 BDS target. Graph of Israel’s Exports – link to dl.dropboxusercontent.com

      • CigarGod
        June 16, 2015, 1:13 pm

        Nice.
        Fitting name for your comment, too.

      • echinococcus
        June 18, 2015, 7:08 am

        Even with the economic impact appearing to be somewhat relevant, what will bring them to their knees is boycott of their universities, cultural exchanges, spectator sports participation and, above all, the easy trips and free mingling with Western populations. They must be shunned when on tourism. They must feel that they aren’t “part of the Western world” because that’s what will hurt these barbarians worse than anything else!
        Economic difficulties make nationalist masses more determined and more supportive of even unpopular leaders (no exceptions to this rule, which only the US is too stupid to understand.) But feeling that those you are looking up to or kowtowing to are despising you is destructive.

      • CigarGod
        June 18, 2015, 8:30 am

        I agree that a shaming/loss of stature is powerful. There are good examples for your argument on the limitations of exclusively economic measures, in Iraq and Iran. However, as you see here daily, no amount of facts, or sound argument can shame the apologists on this site. So, shaming also seems to have its limitations.

      • echinococcus
        June 18, 2015, 7:14 pm

        Cigar God,

        They are not shamed by the answers they receive here –of course not. Palestine supporters and leftists are the untouchable class for Zionists.
        They will only be shamed when they are shunned by their peers, get strange stares every time their accent is heard, cold shoulders in streets and shops, animated verbal challenges about their [censored]-[censored] nationalism and invasion and genocide, etc. When they hear that they have to find a first author not employed in a Herrenvolk university so that their paper can be accepted for publication, etc.

      • CigarGod
        June 19, 2015, 8:14 am

        Well put.

  23. German Lefty
    June 16, 2015, 4:58 pm

    Talk by Shir Hever: Israel – The Only Democracy in the Middle East?
    link to m.youtube.com

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