Obama and the Zionists

US Politics
on 93 Comments

Last Friday President Obama spent a lot of time with leading American Jewish supporters of Israel assuring them the Iran Deal won’t undermine Israel’s security. He said the U.S. and Israel are “family” and are never going to come apart. He told Stephen Greenberg and Michael Siegal, the leaders respectively of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations and the Jewish Federations, that everyone in the U.S. is “pro-Israel,” we “love” Israel, the two nations are “intertwined” forever; and you fight with your family, but he’d soon be playing golf with his Jewish supporters again.

Siegal told the president that Jews get “unsettled and anxious” whenever there’s “daylight” between the American government and Israel, and Greenberg reminded the president of the Holocaust and Jewish victimization. Jane Eisner, the editor of the Forward, expressed the same anxiety in her interview with the president Friday. She repeatedly pressed the president on how he would repair the relationship between Israel and the United States.

The president told both audiences that he wouldn’t be president if not for Jewish Americans.

I probably wouldn’t be sitting in this Oval Office were it not for the incredible support that I received from the Jewish community throughout my political career — from my very first race in the state Senate coming out of Hyde Park in Chicago, to my Senate run, to my presidential run.

He surely was referring to the three wealthy Jews he once called his “Chicago cabal” who were there “from the git-go,” all of them liberal Zionists. As well as the more-right-wing Chicago Zionists who got behind Obama when he ran for the Senate, as Rashid Khalidi has reported: Lester Crown, the Pritzker family, and Allan Solow, all “major financial backers of Israel.”

The Friday meetings at the White House were remarkable because we could see the transactions of the Israel lobby before our eyes: The president attested that the U.S. and Israel are joined forever, and the big American Israel supporters expressed only one concern vis-a-vis US policy, Israel’s security.

They said not a word about the American interest in having a deal, about the Middle East region’s interest in having a deal, let alone a word about Palestinian human rights under Israeli occupation. Eisner is a liberal Zionist, but she didn’t mention the settlements, and she described the U.S. Jewish community as utterly aligned with the Israeli government.

At one point Eisner even seemed to recommend an attack on Iran now:

won’t it be much more difficult — won’t Iran be more formidable to attack 10 or 15 years from now when it’s stronger than the way it’s been the last few years, so isolated and so weak?

While Siegal described the “bad neighborhood” Israel lives in and says that the “noose” of that neighborhood is tightening. As if the interests of all the Arabs in that neighborhood must be subordinated to Israeli concerns. It reminded me of the news that that the American Jewish Committee, which is also working against the Iran Deal, has met with the Egyptian tyrant to advance this goal:

In the weeks before Senator Chuck Schumer’s decision to oppose the Iran nuclear accord, John Shapiro, a New York financier and a leader of the American Jewish Committee, had his ear, plying him with reasons to oppose it.

Mr. Shapiro, a longtime benefactor of the New York senator and other Democrats..  said he spoke with Mr. Schumer about his meeting with Egypt’s president, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, including the leader’s warning that the agreement would increase regional terrorism.

The Friday meetings are one of the achievements of the Iran Deal: President Obama has exposed the Israel lobby’s activities for everyone to see. The president has always relied on the lobby for political support, but he has also quietly worked to undermine its power; and by pressing the Iran Deal, he has showed us who he is up against. Even as the president protests that he loves Israel and will do nothing to damage the special relationship between the countries, the average American is getting to see a disturbing spectacle, the political access granted to groups that only care about Israel’s security.

Eisner, Greenberg, and Siegal were all upset that President Obama has suggested that supporters of Israel are “warmongerers.” This feeds into “deep anti-semitic undertones,” Siegal said. Here the president stiffened. He said he’s never used that word; but he emphasized that if the deal is killed the greatest likelihood is war. Then he mentioned the attacks from the hardliners in the Jewish community on Rep. Jerrold Nadler for supporting the deal and noted that Nadler had braved the same forces to vote against the Iraq War–  a decision vindicated by events.

Back in 2002, the Conference of Presidents chairman and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee had also pushed for war, out of concern for Israel’s security. Back then former (and future) Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu testified in Congress that war would be a “good choice.”

Back then few called out the Israel lobby over its role in a disastrous war. But this time around the Israel lobby is exposed in its opposition to the deal, and that exposure is creating a crisis for Israel supporters.

Siegal worries about antisemitic “undertones” in the debate; Eisner deplores the “incendiary” tone of the debate and seems to blame the president in part; Jeffrey Goldberg is angered that so many news organizations are talking openly about the Jews in Congress who support the deal or don’t. But it’s too late to worry about that. The New York Times says frankly that Senator Ron Wyden is torn between “his Jewish roots” and his support for the deal; J Street and Al-Monitor’s Laura Rozen regularly tally the number of Jews in Congress who are supporting the deal; the Washington Post says that the chair of the Democratic National Committee is blocking support of the deal because she is worried about all the Jews in her district, and President Obama points out that Nadler’s sense of “Jewish history” is unrivalled by any of the deal’s opponents.

They are all saying that Jewishness, the legacy of the Holocaust, and the Israel lobby have a prominent place in this debate.

You can’t have such influence without accountability. In the months and years to come we are going to see a more and more open discussion of two huge issues surrounding the Zionist presence in U.S. foreign policymaking: 1, What is the price of the U.S. being “family” with the Jewish state? 2, Do Jews need a Jewish state in order to be safe?

First, what does it cost the United States to maintain that special relationship with Israel? How long must our entire policy in the Middle East be driven by one concern, Israel’s security?

Siegal’s statement about the ever-tightening noose reminded me of a quotation from Franklin Roosevelt. In 1944, the president chided the two leading Zionist lobbyists, Rabbis Stephen Wise and Abba Silver, for pushing for a catastrophe, the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. Roosevelt reflected: “To think of it, two men, two holy men, coming here to ask me to let millions of people be killed in a jihad.”

The State Department warned Roosevelt and Truman that setting up a Jewish state would lead to endless unrest in the Middle East; and as we look back on that warning 70 years later we need to consider how prescient it was. How much of the turmoil in the Middle East is a result of Israel’s presence? Surely some modest portion is; and surely some large portion of the turmoil in which the United States is involved. From the assassination of Bobby Kennedy to the killing of Rachel Corrie in 2003 to the 9/11 attacks to the Iraq War — our support for Israel has had a large toll. I’m not excusing the perpetrators of violence; people are responsible for their actions. But imagine that the Jewish state had been set up in Argentina, as it was once imagined by Herzl, or in Uganda, as it was also imagined; and can’t we imagine vigorous opposition in those regions to a project of a colonial-religious character, involving great numbers of people? Of course.

The president’s squeamish interactions with Israel supporters allow us to look back on that history. I believe he wants us to do that. For all his declarations of love for Israel, he cannot think this close a relationship with a distant country is good for the United States. I believe Obama has wanted us to have this conversation since he first came into office, and gave the Cairo speech and talked about the humiliations of occupation, words he was forced to withdraw in the years that followed. The occupation that liberal Jane Eisner couldn’t even mention when she was urging the president to “repair” the U.S. relationship with the Netanyahu government.

The exposure and waning of the Israel lobby is going to be a convulsive project — after all, the entire American establishment is intertwined with the lobby — but it is not and should not be an anti-Semitic one. That is because of the second question above: Do Jews need a Jewish state to be safe? Answering that question is a necessary part of this discussion.

We must all recognize that the American Jewish marriage to Zionism took place in the 1940s and again in the 1960s and 70s, and it was trauma-borne. The Holocaust annihilated Jewish communities across eastern Europe and endangered the Jewish position in western society; and in turn upended FDR and Truman’s calculations of risks in the Middle East. The U.N. Partition vote in 1947 wouldn’t have been possible without the Holocaust; and American Jews were surely right in the 1970s to declare the Holocaust a sacred chapter of Jewish history, even if Zionists exploited that sacralization.

The issue now is whether the Holocaust is reflective of the Jewish experience today or in its entirety. Last Friday Stephen Greenberg cast Jews as a vulnerable people always dependent on great powers. That view seems anachronistic to me, and steeped in victimization. And that view has produced the orgy of selfish concerns that we saw in Obama’s Friday talks. I see Jews as empowered actors on the American stage. Our identity ought to reflect that reality; and our politics ought to reflect that identity. End Zionism now.

P.S. I’m glad to see that Mairav Zonszein echoed my anger over Eisner’s absence of concern for Palestinians.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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93 Responses

  1. JLewisDickerson
    September 1, 2015, 2:35 pm

    RE: In 1944, the president chided the two leading Zionist lobbyists, Rabbis Stephen Wise and Abba Silver, for pushing a disastrous course, establishing a Jewish state in Palestine. Roosevelt reflected angrily: “To think of it, two men, two holy men, coming here to ask me to let millions of people be killed in a jihad.” ~ Weiss

    SEE: “The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict”,Third Edition (2001), Published by ‘Jews for Justice in the Middle East’:

    [EXCERPT]
    Roosevelt’s advisor writes on why Jewish refugees were not offered sanctuary in the U.S. after WWII
    “[Roosevelt] proposed a world budget for the easy migration of the 500,000 beaten people of Europe. Each nation should open its doors for some thousands of refugees… So he suggested that during my trips for him to England during the war I sound out in a general, unofficial manner the leaders of British public opinion, in and out of the government…The simple answer: Great Britain will match the United States, man for man, in admissions from Europe…It seemed all settled. With the rest of the world probably ready to give haven to 200,000, there was a sound reason for the President to press Congress to take in at least 150,000 immigrants after the war…
    “It would free us from the hypocrisy of closing our own doors while making sanctimonious demands on the Arabs…But it did not work out…The failure of the leading Jewish organizations to support with zeal this immigration programme may have caused the President not to push forward with it at that time…
    “I talked to many people active in Jewish organizations. I suggested the plan…I was amazed and even felt insulted when active Jewish leaders decried, sneered, and then attacked me as if I were a traitor
    …I think I know the reason for much of the opposition. There is a deep, genuine, often fanatical emotional vested interest in putting over the Palestinian movement [Zionism]. Men like Ben Hecht are little concerned about human blood if it is not their own.” ~ Jewish attorney and friend of President Roosevelt, Morris Ernst, ‘So Far, So Good’

    ENTIRE “ORIGIN” BOOKLET – http://archive.org/details/TheOriginOfThePalestine-israelConflict

    • Boomer
      September 1, 2015, 4:26 pm

      re: The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict, via JLDickerson.

      Wow.

      Thanks for the link.

  2. JLewisDickerson
    September 1, 2015, 2:43 pm

    RE: “Last Friday Stephen Greenberg cast Jews as a vulnerable people always dependent on great powers. That view seems anachronistic to me, and steeped in victimization. And that view has produced the orgy of selfish concerns that we saw in Obama’s Friday talks. I see Jews as empowered actors on the American stage. Our identity ought to reflect that reality; and our politics ought to reflect that identity.” ~ Weiss

    SEE: ■ A Problem of Self Image (Mysh) from Richard Silverstein’s Tikun Olam site

  3. hophmi
    September 1, 2015, 3:05 pm

    “Even as he protests that he loves Israel and will do nothing to damage the special relationship between the countries, the average American is getting to see a sickening spectacle, the political access granted to groups that only care about Israel’s security”

    Which average Americans watched the webcast and were sickened? Is there polling on this?

    “The State Department warned Roosevelt and Truman that setting up a Jewish state would lead to endless unrest in the Middle East”

    They did not predict that it would lead to endless unrest everywhere in the Middle East, and even if they had, the unrest throughout the Middle East is a legacy of British and French colonialism, not of the creation of Israel. Without the creation of Israel, do you know what we’d have? A bigger Jordan and a bigger Egypt, and no complaining about Palestinians.

    “How much of the turmoil in the Middle East is a result of Israel’s presence?”

    None of it.

    “I believe”

    You can believe what you want. The President has a difference of opinion with the Israelis on Iran. In just about every other way, the President has been deeply supportive.

    “I see Jews as empowered actors on the American stage.”

    You have trouble dealing with anyone who isn’t visibly downtrodden because you have a black and white view of the world. At the end of the day, whether Jews are “empowered” or not, and I think that this Iran deal has shown that they are not nearly as empowered as you’ve suggested they are, they remain a tiny minority. Jews are quite “empowered” in France, and yet, they’re 40% of the victims of racist violence there. Jews in Sweden have been essentially forced out of Malmo, Sweden’s second largest city. Throughout Europe today, Jews are advised not to walk around with their heads covered because it’s dangerous. You’ve written nothing on this topic, and the followers of your blog have denied that there’s a problem.

    Minorities are necessarily dependent on the good will of the majority to survive. Jews have learned from history that they can never depend completely on that majority for their survival.

    • eljay
      September 1, 2015, 3:23 pm

      || hophmi: … Jews are quite “empowered” in France, and yet, they’re 40% of the victims of racist violence there. Jews in Sweden have been essentially forced out of Malmo, Sweden’s second largest city. Throughout Europe today, Jews are advised not to walk around with their heads covered because it’s dangerous. … the followers of your blog have denied that there’s a problem. … ||

      I don’t deny that there’s a problem but, unlike you, I believe that the solution to acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews is the universal and consistent application of justice, accountability and equality.

      Unlike you, I do not believe that:
      – acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews justify acts of injustice and immorality committed by Jews;
      – Jews are entitled to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them; and
      – acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews justify the creation of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and/or religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 1, 2015, 3:55 pm

        eljay, hops keeps making this 40% claim. what he fails to consider is the liklihood, as demonstrated in the movie defamation, is the condition of jews claiming to be victims of racial violence at a greater rate than other minorities in france — a country where the law allows recognized anti-racist associations to initiate criminal proceedings even when the public prosecutor declines to do so . and what happens to people who make racist charges against jews in france? they have a private militia (JDL) that meters out retribution as they see fit. what about the thugs screaming out n**** on the streets? do they get arrested for that? no. http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/vanity-semitic-falling

        in thread after thread after thread hops repeats this claim as if it doesn’t reflect the claim vs what’s factual, about a well understood condition of paranoia, constant claims of victimization and charges of anti semitism.

        and when i ask him “of all incidents of violent crime in france, what percentage are jews the victims? do you know? – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/vanity-semitic-falling#comment-793114” he doesn’t think it’s important, nor is he even curious.

        of course there is racism against jews in france, but the perpetuation of the myth it accounts for 40% of all racial violence in france, as opposed to the reality of what happens on the street vs claims made, is propaganda.

      • hophmi
        September 1, 2015, 4:48 pm

        “I believe that the solution to acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews is the universal and consistent application of justice, accountability and equality.”

        Are we anywhere close to this? No. We are not remotely close, and Jews should not have to wait until then and be asked to live as if this era was already upon us.

      • hophmi
        September 1, 2015, 5:03 pm

        “eljay, hops keeps making this 40% claim.”

        It’s not my “claim.” It’s CRIF’s statistics, which rely on hate crime stats from France’s Interior Ministry. Here’s a piece from a source that is not especially pro-Israel. The rate of antisemitism in France is 7 times what it was in the 1990’s, and that’s regardless of whether the conflict in the Middle East is hot or not.

        http://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7552943/france-anti-semitism

        “a country where the law allows recognized anti-racist associations to initiate criminal proceedings even when the public prosecutor declines to do so . ”

        This has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the statistics.

        “nd what happens to people who make racist charges against jews in france? they have a private militia (JDL) that meters out retribution as they see fit.”

        Do you have a SINGLE IOTA OF EVIDENCE to back up your ridiculous claim that the LDJ systematically takes revenge on people who make accusations against Jews in France? Even if you did, how on Earth is that a response to the fact that Jews in France are the victims of racist violence out of all proportion to their percentage of the French population?

        “of all incidents of violent crime in france, what percentage are jews the victims? do you know? – he doesn’t think it’s important”

        That’s because the question is offensive, ridiculous, and completely beside the point.

        “, nor is he even curious.

        of course there is racism against jews in france”

        What? I’m not curious because it’s an established fact that there is racism against Jews in France. They’re 40% of the victims of hate crime violence! Antisemitic acts doubled from 423 to 851 from 2013 to 2014. Thousands of them are leaving the country every year! What the hell is wrong with you? Why is it that you think being pro-Palestinian means denying antisemitism?

      • yonah fredman
        September 1, 2015, 5:24 pm

        annie- I don’t know the statistics involved in anti Jewish attacks in France, but the highly visible case of the Hyper cachet store and the killings in Tolouse paint you as a know nothing idiot on this topic. I have not been keeping track of Hopmi’s rhetoric and maybe you are overreacting to some provocative statements by him, but Jews in France, those who live in Arab neighborhoods are in a damned sensitive situation and you merely are exhibiting ignorance and apathy.

      • Mooser
        September 1, 2015, 5:37 pm

        ” and Jews should not have to wait until then and be asked to live as if this era was already upon us.”

        Ah, the ultimate what-aboutery! Until all Gentiles are perfect we can do whatever we please and no laws apply to us. Good plan, Hoph.

      • Mooser
        September 1, 2015, 6:31 pm

        ” and Jews should not have to wait until then and be asked to live as if this era was already upon us.”

        Of course, returning to Zion as if the Messianic epoch (or mishepoch) is already upon us, well, that’s different. Might as well get the jump on things. You know, “Muscular Judaism” all that.

      • eljay
        September 1, 2015, 7:58 pm

        || Annie Robbins @ September 1, 2015, 3:55 pm ||

        Hey, Annie. The accuracy of hophmi’s numbers don’t matter to me as much as the fact that he consistently uses acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews as justification for all the (war) crimes and other acts of injustice and immorality that he and Zio-supremacists like him have been advocating, undertaking, supporting, justifying or excusing for almost 70 years.

        Every time he screams anti-Semitism and promotes Zio-supremacism, he demonstrates that he is nothing more than a hateful and immoral supremacist and hypocrite.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 1, 2015, 9:17 pm

        i think his numbers are correct. that according to CRIF 40% of the racist attacks in france are against jews. it’s just that what CRIF thinks isn’t necessarily the same as what the police think. as an example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11813857/Was-Pariss-Chief-Rabbi-rescued-from-an-axe-wielding-Nazi-mob.html

        this incident was a case of a bunch of jdl thugs instigating a riot. they (jdl) were captured on video screaming racial epitaphs. and yet CRIF and vanity fair paint it as a racist attack against jews. i spent a lot of time translating the french press doing the vanity fair article (here: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/vanity-semitic-falling )and corresponded with several journalists based out of france. and not just about this story. there’s a guy operating out of natanya, israel directing the anti semitism hot line in france. and to him, everything is anti semitic.

        again, it does not mean there’s isn’t racial hatred aganist jews in france. it means, in a counrty where, according to the washington post even “anti-racist associations [think the ADL or B.N.V.C.A, run by ghozlan, friend to the jdl, a guy even CRIF kicked of the board for making false claims ] to initiate criminal proceedings even when the public prosecutor declines to do so”

        get it, that would be the equivalence of prosecutors in the US, not agreeing there’s enough evidence to determine a crime was racist or a hate crime, still allowing an independent group to initiate criminal proceedings. it is these groups who determine what is racist or not, just like the ADL sending out the questionaire determining everyone and their brother was anti semitic. sorry, it’s a different kettle of fish when it’s not all judged by the same standards.

        and the reason it matters how much crime their is in france is because if 98% of the violent crime in france is carried out against people who happen to be christian, but none of it is categorized as a “hate crime”, but all crime perpetrated against jews is, then of course the incidences of “racist crime” are going to tilt towards being anti jewish.

        and there have been famous cases in france of falsely reported anti semitic crime — based on lies. i’ll be reporting about this when i write another post about the unsourced lies of marie brenner. we’re not over with vanity fair yet. take this statistic from CRIF as you would an outrageous claim by someone even much more fanatical than abe foxman. with a (big) grain of salt.

      • eljay
        September 1, 2015, 8:20 pm

        || hophmi: Are we anywhere close to this? No. We are not remotely close, and Jews should not have to wait until then and be asked to live as if this era was already upon us. ||

        So what you’re saying is that any time non-Jews feel that they are being fucked over by Jews, they should not appeal to justice, accountability or equality; instead, they should simply fuck Jews over. Careful what you wish for, you Jew-hater you.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 1, 2015, 8:54 pm

        i saw that earlier over at failed messiah roha – sent it to phil. sheesh!

      • hophmi
        September 2, 2015, 12:36 pm

        “it’s just that what CRIF thinks isn’t necessarily the same as what the police think.”

        So, your rejoinder to my statistics is to cite (for the umpteenth time) the minority opinion on a story about a riot in Paris from 2014 that has nothing to do with the statistics themselves. Sorry, that doesn’t undermine anything that I’ve said here.

        “this incident was a case of a bunch of jdl thugs instigating a riot.”

        It was not. And even if it were, this is A SINGLE INCIDENT, and the narrative you’ve tirelessly promoted here, of a few dozen LDJ members “inciting a riot,” with several hundred protesters, and it is controversial; the pushback by LDJ members is reported here because it’s UNUSUAL. The narrative blaming the LDJ has only ever been the narrative of one party – the anti-Israel protesters who stormed the synagogue. Just about everyone else tells a different story, which is that pro-Palestinian protesters were rioting and out of control, and that a few LDJ members came to protect the synagogue. There is a long history of this revisionist history, and unfortunately, Annie, you’re a part of it now. When you were supposedly speaking to all of these French people, did you speak to any of the eyewitnesses quoted in these articles?

        http://www.jta.org/2014/07/18/news-opinion/world/in-riot-outside-synagogue-french-jews-were-left-to-protect-themselves
        http://www.businessinsider.com/pro-palestine-protesters-attack-paris-synagogues-2014-7
        http://bigstory.ap.org/article/protesters-scuffle-police-paris-synagogues
        http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/jan/15/-sp-threat-to-france-jews

        “Bernard Abouaf, a journalist for the left-leaning Radio Shalom, was with friends nearby when he received a call on his mobile that the synagogue was being attacked. He rushed to the scene. ‘There were a hundred or so pro-Palestinian activists rushing towards the synagogue. There were 40 Jews outside defending the 160 people who were trapped inside. Let me tell you, I have never in my life defended the JDL [Jewish Defense League],’ he said. ‘But that evening, if they hadn’t been there, the synagogue would have been destroyed, with all the people trapped inside.’

        “Abouaf insisted that I sit with him to watch a video that had spread widely after the incident, under a headline announcing that Serge Benhaim – the president of the synagogue – denied any attack had taken place. The video shows a young journalist, Julien Nény, repeatedly asserting in an interview with Benhaim that the violence had been instigated by the notorious Jewish Defence League; his questions to Benhaim focus on the reputation of the JDL for violence rather than on the events of the afternoon. Under Nény’s insistent questioning, the quietly spoken Benhaim repeats that ‘that version of events is wrong.’ Eventually, the spooling, repetitive question-and-answer becomes hard to follow. It was only after watching the video four times that I understood: Benhaim is repeatedly denying, in the same phrase, Nény’s repeated suggestion that the violence had been provoked by the JDL. His endlessly looping denial ends up being twisted by Nény’s bullying persistence into the opposite of what he is saying – it sounds as though he is denying that the synagogue was attacked. It’s an impressive journalistic sleight of hand, so successful, indeed, that it made its way round the world, written about by journalists who may have simply read the headline and not even bothered to watch the video – evidence, perhaps, of a surprisingly widespread taste for the notion that antisemitic violence is a chimera, faked by Jews and supported by the government as part of a strategy to demonise Muslims in France and elsewhere.”

        “there’s a guy operating out of natanya, israel directing the anti semitism hot line in france.”

        We know who Sammy Ghozlan is; he was featured in Marie Brenner’s article. It’s interesting that you say he’s “operating out of Netanya” while omitting the reason why: he lived in France for 40 years, and left last year because he no longer felt safe. Gee, maybe he sold his house because he didn’t feel European enough.

        The numbers are from CRIF, which got them from the Interior Ministry. They’re not from Sammy Ghozlan. Again, CRIF’s statistics are based on the records of the French Interior Ministry.

        You’re still braying on about the right of NGOs to report crimes, as if this had anything to do with the numbers, which have been consistently rising for the last decade and a half, and on which there is really no disagreement.

        “and the reason it matters how much crime their is in france is because if 98% of the violent crime in france is carried out against people who happen to be christian, but none of it is categorized as a “hate crime”, but all crime perpetrated against jews is, then of course the incidences of “racist crime” are going to tilt towards being anti jewish.”

        I’ll ask you for the fifth time now. Do you have any evidence to show that all violent crime committed against Jews is being classified by CRIF as hate crimes? You don’t, because they aren’t doing that, and because if you did, you would have presented it by now, instead of posting the same Telegraph article for the umpteenth time.

        “and there have been famous cases in france of falsely reported anti semitic crime — based on lies.”

        Another ridiculous line you keep repeating. Because there were a couple of incidents where people made up stories, the entire decade and half of rising antisemitism in France is somehow a made-up story. It’s so disgusting and so hypocritical. It’s like saying that because Black people sometimes fabricate hate crime reports to the police, there’s no racism against African-Americans, or because Palestinians sometimes fabricate incidents with IDF soldiers, there’s no discrimination against Palestinians in the West Bank.

        No one is denying that there are one or two incidents that have been fabricated; there are always a few incidents like that, and people like you always spend more time on them than the overwhelming majority of incidents because you want to diminish the reality. There were 823 antisemitic incidents in 2014, according to CRIF. Do you have evidence that they were all fabricated?

      • Annie Robbins
        September 2, 2015, 1:01 pm

        for starters i didn’t say “fabrication”, i said a crime is not always evidence of a racist crime. remember, france is a country that hauls bds activists in to court on charges of anti semitism/incitement (get it, anti zionsim = anti semitism to many people (but not me and not by US standards) and therefore these bds actions could be included in the “evidence” and percentage figures according to CRIF.) i don’t think victims of a crime are necessarily the most unbiased judge of the motive. other than that, it’s not just one or two. here’s another http://www.timesofisrael.com/2-french-jews-jailed-for-assaulting-anti-israel-reporter/ and another (famous in france) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RER_D also, see “victimhood competition” https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_de_protection_de_la_communaut%C3%A9_juive

        while omitting the reason why: he lived in France for 40 years, and left last year because he no longer felt safe.

        or so he says. the reputation of Commissioner Ghozlan of the National Bureau of Vigilance against Anti-Semitism (BNVCA), is compromised. he is also in w/the jdl: http://jforum.fr/2011/03/Pourquoi-le-Crif-sanctionne-t-il-Sammy-Ghozlan/#D0PvSEBBGmoJPPhI.99 see letter and comments. this may have had something to do w/his choice to leave.

        this has been going on a long time. again, it doesn’t mean there’s not a problem w/racism against jews in france, it means just because someone makes a claim doesn’t mean it’s true from their perspective (google paranoia). and therefore if an incidence not supported by enough convincing evidence by the police, it should not be included. the exceptional idea that a self appointed group can initiate criminal proceedings — unconvincing.

        and finally, you can write another 10 paragraph comment i don’t care. you’ve already dominated several threads w/this argument. you keep hauling out your 40% time and again, as if it relates to obama and the zionists or any of the other threads. i’m sort of done w/it. bye.

      • hophmi
        September 2, 2015, 3:37 pm

        “i said a crime is not always evidence of a racist crime.”

        Certainly true. What does it have to do with the documented 15 year rise of antisemitism in France?

        ” remember, france is a country that hauls bds activists in to court on charges of anti semitism/incitement”

        Whom are you talking about? Which ones? Jews are 40% of the victims of racist incidents in France. Are you asserting that BDS activists are being hauled into court for incidents toward Jews that were not antisemitic? Do you have documentation for this?

        ” i don’t think victims of a crime are necessarily the most unbiased judge of the motive.”

        So what you’re saying is that Jewish organizations aren’t reliable reporters of antisemitism because Jews are the victims. Would you ever say this to an historically African-American organization like the NAACP? Or a Muslim organization like CAIR? I doubt it.

        “other than that, it’s not just one or two. here’s another link to timesofisrael.com and another (famous in france), “victimhood competition.”

        So you sent two articles about two anecdotal incidents, and a French wikipedia entry about the SPCJ with a section about a “victimhood competition.” What does that mean? The article says that the victimhood competition is not because of the SPCJ, but because the Muslims are upset that the French media covers antisemitism more than Islamophobia. As a result, the Muslim community started an organization based on SPCJ, called the CCIF a “mirror,” to report on Islamophobic incidents. That was in 2011. My numbers are from 2014. I don’t see how this undermines the argument that there is a serious antisemitism problem in France.

        In other words, the victimhood competition is something that people engage in because they resent the Jewish community for being organized enough to issue reports on antisemitism, not something the Jewish community engages in.

        “The reputation of Commissioner Ghozlan of the National Bureau of Vigilance against Anti-Semitism (BNVCA), is compromised.”

        Still clueless. Ghozlan was suspended from the Steering Committee of CRIF because he publicly criticized CRIF. The notion that the guy and his entire family would leave France, where they’d lived for 40 years, because he was suspended from the Steering Committee of CRIF is so ridiculous that I can’t seriously believe that you believe it. As I’ve told you before, Ghozlan has never had great relations with CRIF (read Marie Brenner’s Vanity Fair piece from 2002), because he’s frequently criticized them for not taking antisemitism seriously enough. He was right in 2002, and he’s right now, and leaving France hasn’t stopped him from working on the problem. And for the sixth time, it’s not Ghozlan’s numbers that CRIF is relying on.

        “again, it doesn’t mean there’s not a problem w/racism against jews in france, it means just because someone makes a claim doesn’t mean it’s true from their perspective (google paranoia).”

        So you think that these incidents are unsubstantiated claims?

        You know what? Here’s the report from 2014. You can read it. It includes a long list of incident descriptions. You can tell us which incidents you take issue with as being not antisemitic.

        http://www.antisemitisme.fr/dl/2014-EN.pdf

        Is it the one where an orthodox man received an electric shock from a Shocker as he was entering a shul?

        Is it the one where a 59 year old teacher wearing a kippa and tzitzit was attacked by three men who screamed “Dirty Jew, death to the Jews, we’re going to fuck your race” and drew a swastika on him?

        Was it this one from Nice? “A young Jewish woman in her car with her mother was attacked by a driver who slapped, insulted, and threatened her. “Dirty sh***y Jews, dirty French girls. We’re gonna blow up everything, watch
        the news, synagogues are going to blow up, it is war!” He also tried to pull the victim out of her car and added: “I know where you live, dirty Jew, I’m gonna kill you!”

        This one? “A man was pushing the wheelchair of his son with Down’s syndrome when he was insulted by an individual who said: “You kike, you Jew! Ah, the Jew!” A second individual appeared and punched him two or three times on the right side of the face, and escaped.”

        Maybe this one: “Three masked men forced their way into the apartment of a Jewish family; they sequestrated one of the sons and his girlfriend for an hour. The attackers demanded money, ATM cards, and jewels, and said: “You Jews, you are rich. You’re gonna tell us where the money is.” The young man was tied up, the young woman was raped, and the apartment was burglarized. The three attackers were arrested and placed in custody. One of the attackers had identified the victims’ apartment a month earlier and came to ask for some sugar.”

        Or this one: “During a bar mitzvah, an individual shot numerous lead bullets towards the synagogue from his balcony. A worshipper was hit, but not wounded. The congregation has been the target of Antisemitic attacks by this neighbor for a year. The police were called and the man was held in custody.

        The incidents, by the way, are all incidents that were reported to the police by the victims, so enough of your red herrings about who can bring prosecutions.

        Maybe they’re all coincidences, because as Froggy says, who can tell which people are Jews and which are not? It’s just a coincidence when someone calls a Jew a dirty Jew or a kike. It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

        and therefore if an incidence not supported by enough convincing evidence by the police, it should not be included.”

        Right, so for an incident of antisemitism to take place according to an NGO, there has to be a full police investigation and a finding of “enough convincing evidence”, because Jews in France can’t be trusted as witnesses and because otherwise, people like you will assume that 851 antisemitic incidents didn’t really happen as antisemitic incidents because the Jews of France are just “paranoid.” Do you ever listen to yourself? Would you ever use this standard for hate crimes reporting for anyone else?

        “i’m sort of done w/it.”

        Yeah, that’s your general approach when someone highlights what nonsense you’re peddling.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 2, 2015, 3:57 pm

        hops, allegations such as these (unlike jewish thugs screaming racist chants on the streets of paris) don’t ever seem to be accompanied by video or recording:

        In Belleville, an eastern suburb of Paris, a demonstration Saturday by a few dozen people against Israel’s attack on Hamas featured calls to “slaughter the Jews,” according to Alain Azria, a French Jewish photojournalist who covered the event. The crowd also chanted “death to the Jews,” he said.

        read more: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.604813

        you don’t happen to have access to any youtubes confirming this do you? and considering how prolific mobile phones are on the streets these days, wouldn’t it be odd if their weren’t any?

      • hophmi
        September 3, 2015, 11:33 am

        “hops, allegations such as these don’t ever seem to be accompanied by video or recording”

        Are you kidding? So now, if a rabbi who is shocked with a taser doesn’t videotape the incident, it doesn’t exist for you. They’re all making it up. It’s all a big Jewish conspiracy, right?

        There are many videos on youtube. Did you bother to look?

        Here’s one from Paris.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdcrxe2FcE8

        Here’s the France 2 report on Sarcelles from the day after the attack on the synagogue there:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkGxmWGFZ8U

        Here’s a feature on antisemitism in France. The French family at the beginning – did they say that they were leaving because they didn’t feel European? Because of the bad economy? They have a thriving business. They love being French. They’re leaving because they don’t feel safe. They’re leaving because their son can’t wear a Yarmulke without being harassed. They’re leaving because they see anti-Jewish graffiti on the streets.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQy-0mDRZ3g

        Here’s another from PBS Newshour:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QljPbI0uGI

        Is the Maloul family leaving because of the economy or because they don’t feel European? No, he’s giving up a successful practice as a dermatologist. He’s leaving with his family because HE DOESN’T FEEL SAFE.

        Another, from Al-Jazeera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbvI06pt-ZM

      • Annie Robbins
        September 3, 2015, 2:04 pm

        yeah, and i can do that too

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11337938/Paris-shootings-The-backlash-begins-against-French-Muslims.html

        jan 10

        Mosques in French have in recent years regularly been targeted, but since Wednesday’s deadly attack on the satirical magazine by a pair of radical Islamists, there has been a spike in the number of attacks.
        The latest came on Friday night when shots were fired at a Muslim prayer centre in Digne-les-Bains in Provence, and at a mosque in Soissons, about 20 miles away from the town where the Charlie Hebdo suspects were shot dead by police.
        On Thursday, a homemade bomb went off outside a mosque in the central city of Villefranche-sur-Saone, while on Friday the head of a wild pig was placed outside a prayer room in Corte in Corsica.
        A letter lay beside the head that warned “the next time it will be the head of one of yours.”

        Anti-Islam slogans were daubed on the walls of mosques in the towns of Poitiers, Lieven and Béthune, while in Bayonne on the Atlantic coast the words “dirty Arabs” and “murderers” were sprayed on the facade of a mosque.
        Police said a fire at a mosque in Aix-les-Bains was likely a criminal act, and in L’Oiselet, a secondary school student of north African origin was beaten up by youths shouting racist insults.
        In Paris, terrorism expert Thomas Hegghammer tweeted that his taxi driver had told him customers were refusing to ride with him because he was of Arab appearance.
        The spate of attacks worry the leaders of France’s Muslim community, which at around five million people is the largest in Europe.

        there’s a lot more at the link. 1/25:

        http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/25/after-charlie-hebdo-attacks-french-muslims-face-increased-threats.html

        The National Observatory Against Islamophobia says there were 128 anti-Muslim incidents reported in France between the Charlie Hebdo killings [jan 7] and Jan. 20, compared to 133 [total] last year. The Islamophobia monitoring group, linked to the French Council of the Muslim Faith, notes the figure only takes into account incidents reported to law enforcement. It leaves aside victims who haven’t bothered out of fear or resignation. It also leaves out numbers not yet available for Paris and its immediate suburbs, where a disproportionate number of the nation’s Muslims live and work. The 128 incidents cited are said to include 33 acts, including attacks on mosques, and 95 threats.


        “Islamophobic acts have reached a peak of hate toward French people of the Muslim confession never before recorded,”

        more: http://bennorton.com/france-hit-by-flood-of-anti-muslim-terrorist-attacks/
        http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/.premium-1.636634

        and this speaks of widespread discrimination: 8/31/2015 http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/31/the-other-france

        “It’s a social frontier,” Badroudine Abdallah, Mehdi Meklat’s colleague at Bondy Blog, said. “It’s not just about being black or Arab. It’s also about having relationships at your disposal, a network.” Meklat and Abdallah, who are in their twenties, told me about weeklong internships required of French ninth graders. Most of their classmates ended up in lousy little bakeries or pharmacies, or with nothing, because corporations wouldn’t answer queries from the children of immigrants in the 93.

        Being from the banlieues is a serious impediment to employability, and nearly every resident I met had a story about discrimination. Fanta Ba, the daughter of Senegalese immigrants, has taken to sending out job applications using her middle name, France, and Frenchifying her last name to Bas, but she remains out of work. Whenever she hears of a terrorist attack in France, she prays, “Don’t let it be an Arab, a black, a Muslim.” On January 7th, she turned off the TV and avoided Facebook for two days. She couldn’t bear to rewatch the violent images or hear that all Muslims bore some responsibility. “To have to say, ‘I am Charlie’ or ‘I am a Muslim and I condemn this’—it’s too much,” she said. “It wasn’t me. I asked myself, ‘How will this end? Are they going to put crosses on the apartment doors of Muslims or Arabs?’ ”

        Ben Ahmed has a friend from Bobigny named Brahim Aniba, an accountant who, like many banlieue residents, once endured a period of unemployment. To receive state benefits, he had to meet with a job counsellor. Aniba told me that the counsellor, wanting to help, said, “You don’t have an aunt who lives in Paris or somewhere else? Because Bobigny—really? Cité Grémillon?” This was the French equivalent of Shitsville. The counsellor advised, “If you have an address in Paris, a post-office box, just to receive mail, it’s better. And then the family name, Aniba—it’s O.K., but the first name, Brahim, use ‘B.’ ”

        “Madame, why don’t I just drop my pants instead?” Aniba said.

        Simply defining who is French can make small talk tricky. When people ask Widad Ketfi, a thirty-year-old journalist, where she’s from, she replies, “Bondy,” but that never ends the conversation. “Of what origin?” “French.” “Where are your parents from?” “France!” Even citizens of immigrant descent often identify whites with the term Français de souche—“French from the roots.” The implication is that people with darker skin are not fully French.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 3, 2015, 2:15 pm

        also, the first video up there is of the jdl thugs trashing the restaurant. i’ve sent it off to a frech reporter to confirm the “chant” allegations. the second video, the protestors were protesting against the attack on gaza. it even stated the jdl was marching with the riot police (when it was not a riot, they were marching). it even said in the video the faced the protestors and started shooting tear gas. i am not convinced it wasn’t a minority of thugs who destroyed those shops. i do not think it was all the protestors. either way, just like in seattle w/WTO that turned violent [and protestors eventually won a lawsuit against the city police] the protest was political in nature. it doesn’t excuse the violence that occurred and the ruing of shops, but instigators use these situations to spin protests out of control. and as has been documented here in the US time after time, those instigators have an agenda. to spin a (primarily) political demonstration into a primarily anti semitic attack is misrepresenting reality. it’s not clear cut like the murder of jewish patrons at a jewish market.

        either way, i am not arguing anti semitism is not a problem in europe. i’m arguing islamophobia and race based hatred towrds arabs and muslims is a worse problem.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 3, 2015, 2:28 pm

        and look at this chart published 4 days ago from may of this year. https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/06/05/european-attitudes-minorities/

        Negative impressions of Roma people and Muslims are high across northern Europe – and 10% have a negative impression of Jewish people in France

        it mentions 7 european countries. in france the figures are 10% negative for jews, but 40% for muslims and 55% for roma. 40% of the people is a lot of negativity. a lot more than 10%. and for roma — it’s very sad.

        i think it’s worth considering with this much racism there’s a very good chance people are not reporting all the crime. just like in the instances of rape cases, it’s documented most of them are not reported. especially in situations where it’s culturally stigmatizing. so i just can’t take your percentage wrt reports of attacks (vs how many attacks really take place), as a serious figure representing racist crime in france.

      • RoHa
        September 3, 2015, 7:04 pm

        “just like in the instances of rape cases, it’s documented most of them are not reported. ”

        Perhaps not to the police, but they must have been reported to someone. How else could we know that they happened, let alone that the majority are not reported?

      • Annie Robbins
        September 4, 2015, 3:59 am

        hops, your first video in 11:33 am comment. it claims they are chanting “Mort aux Juifs”. in the text. however i asked a french person and they said that’s a lie. that the chanting was “We are all Palestinians”.

        what moment in the video do you hear that?

        roha, people call rape hotlines. there are also places you can go that will guarantee confidentiality. it’s different than filing a police report. also medical professionals say this. they treat women who have been assaulted and won’t report it to the police if you ask them not to. there are statistics about this stuff. for children it is different, you are required to report it — i think.

      • CigarGod
        September 4, 2015, 8:58 am

        SAFV (Sexual Assault and Family Violence) is an organization that provides services to women and children of abuse. Education, safe houses, food, clothing, and access to other services. They work with city county state law enforcement to some extent. They keep confidential the names/identities in their data base, but the stats are combined with other organizations in order to give us a fairly clear picture.

      • hophmi
        September 8, 2015, 11:07 am

        I’ve conclusively documented that antisemitism is a serious problem in France, that synagogues have been attacked, and that Jews are leaving France in significant numbers because they’re frightened for themselves and their families, and I’ve provided you documentary evidence of violence and of the statements of French Jews on the matter.

        I never said that all Muslims were attacking Jews in France. I agree that it’s a small minority, but that doesn’t much matter in terms of safety. None of that has anything to do with the fact that antisemitism is a serious problem in France, that the number of antisemitism incidents doubled from 2013 to 2014, and that Jews are 40% of the victims of violence incidents in France. Whether you want to accept the 40% number or not, and it is a number based on police reports and incident analysis, you must admit that antisemitism in France is an extremely serious problem that has caused tens of thousands of Jews to leave because they fear for the safety of their families, and you also must apologize for suggesting that they were leaving because they didn’t feel European enough, a rather disgusting and frankly racist lie, as shown by the interviews with North African French Jewish families that I posted.

        I’ve also never denied that Islamophobia is a serious problem in France, so I don’t know why you feel the need to quote Islamophobia statistics. There are 6 million Muslims in France, and Islamophobia is definitely a serious problem. With regard to underreporting, there is no question that antisemitism is also underreported for similar reasons. Things like verbal threats are not always going to be reported to the police.

        It should be no surprise that attacks on Muslims went up after the Charlie Hebdo killings, as they did in the United States after 9/11. I find it strange, however, that you would compare that to the situation of the Jewish community, which is much smaller and thus much more vulnerable, and which has no radical fringe that is committing or supporting acts of terrorism in France. As far as public opinion statistics on how Jews are viewed, it really is beside the point.

        Whether Islamophobia is a “worse” problem is a matter of perspective. There are far more Muslims in Europe than there are Jews, and in many of these countries, Muslim radicals have attacked Jews, including in France, Belgium, Sweden (where Jews have basically been driven out of Malmo, one of Sweden’s largest cities), and Great Britain. That certainly doesn’t excuse Islamophobia against the overwhelmingly peaceful Muslim communities in these countries, and some of this radicalism that results in attacks on the Jewish community is doubtless the result of societal Islamophobia. But it’s high time people stop denying the scope of the problem, and also stop excusing it by blaming conflict in the Middle East.

        Jews in Europe are really frightened. They don’t feel safe. You should acknowledge that, rather than apologizing for it, claiming it’s not so bad, and blaming the LDJ.

      • oldgeezer
        September 8, 2015, 3:01 pm

        @hophmi

        Racism, of any form, is a serious problem wherever it exists. No doubt there are some European Jews who don’t feel safe in their particular location.

        Luckily in Europe Jewish people have the state on their side and governments crack down on racist driven hate crimes. They continue to pour more money protecting their minorities.

        Contrast that to Palestine where the victims of racism do not receive protection because the primary instigator is the Israeli state. Where the number of racist incidents, where Palestinians are the victims, would dwarf the annual numbers of European states. And not just racist comments but physical and deadly racism.

        And the Kahane loving ldj is not a violent fringe group? It seems I have a higher opinion of Jewish community in France than you do.

    • amigo
      September 1, 2015, 4:24 pm

      “They did not predict that it would lead to endless unrest everywhere in the Middle East, and even if they had, the unrest throughout the Middle East is a legacy of British and French colonialism, not of the creation of Israel” Hopknee

      “”They did not predict that it would lead to endless unrest everywhere in the Middle East, and even if they had, the unrest throughout the Middle East is a legacy of British and French colonialism, not of the colonialism of Israel.”

      There I corrected your omission hoppy.

      Your welcome.Hate to see you open yourself up to derision.

      • hophmi
        September 8, 2015, 11:08 am

        “There I corrected your omission hoppy.

        Your welcome.Hate to see you open yourself up to derision.”

        Thanks. Don’t “correct” me again.

      • Mooser
        September 8, 2015, 2:17 pm

        “Thanks. Don’t “correct” me again.”

        Hophmi, pal, I feel for you. Jeez, correcting a man at his own blog! The nerve! And once again, you proved just what a swell guy you are by putting that corrective comment through Moderation.

    • Philip Weiss
      September 1, 2015, 4:24 pm

      Hophmi, I had changed sickening to disturbing and the post had two versions when it went up. Sorry about that.
      I think a lot of Americans are seeing this and disgusted, per Paul Pillar.
      If you are not for yourself who will be for you? And if you are only for yourself, who are you?
      That’s the challenge to the lobby. It is myopically concerned only with a Zionist interest. And b/c of trauma, this trumps all other concerns.
      Phil

      • hophmi
        September 2, 2015, 12:46 pm

        “I think a lot of Americans are seeing this and disgusted, per Paul Pillar.”

        Maybe a few progressives are disgusted by the intrusion of the Israeli Prime Minister into the political system. But I don’t believe that they’re disgusted by the argument, made by virtually all of the Iran deal’s critics, that the deal is bad for US interests, principally because it would empower an enemy and set off an arms race in the Middle East. I think most Americans understand those concerns.

        I also think that most Americans understand the concerns of American Jews for fellow Jews in Israel. There are 15 million Jews. 6 million of them live in Israel. Iran is led by religious fanatics who regularly say nasty things about Jews. People on your blog seem not to care about that; look at the disingenuous acrobatics your moderator is going through to deny the seriousness of the antisemitism problem in France. And you keep letting her do it, even though you doubtless know that she’s full of it.

      • Mooser
        September 2, 2015, 1:17 pm

        ” People on your blog seem not to care about that; look at the disingenuous acrobatics your moderator is going through to deny the seriousness of the antisemitism problem in France. And you keep letting her do it, even though you doubtless know that she’s full of it.”

        I am simply stunned, struck dumb with admiration. Hophmi, you are the outreach master! No, possibly the outreach Messiah. The way you always know the best thing to say!

        “And you keep letting her do it, even though you doubtless know that she’s full of it.”

        You need to double down on that one, Hophmi! Why don’t you tell us the reason Phil might do this?

    • RoHa
      September 1, 2015, 7:11 pm

      “Minorities are necessarily dependent on the good will of the majority to survive. ”

      If they will not, or cannot, become part of the majority, then the sensible course is to put effort into developing and maintaining that good will. But not through propaganda and lies.

      • hophmi
        September 2, 2015, 12:41 pm

        “If they will not, or cannot, become part of the majority, then the sensible course is to put effort into developing and maintaining that good will.”

        Then you’re either against the concept of minority, or you’re missing the point. In America, we don’t require minorities to give us their identities to join society. And you are beyond clueless if you think that Jews haven’t put tremendous effort into developing and maintaining good will with the majority cultures in the societies in which they lived.

      • RoHa
        September 3, 2015, 12:48 am

        “Then you’re either against the concept of minority, or you’re missing the point.”

        I don’t know how I can be against a concept, so I think I must be missing the point. What is the point?

        “And you are beyond clueless if you think that Jews haven’t put tremendous effort into developing and maintaining good will with the majority cultures in the societies in which they lived.”

        Some Jews in some places have. Orthodox and Eastern European Jews don’t seem to have made much effort. (I have seen, on MW, stories about Polish Jews who could not bother to learn Polish, and we have seen that recently ultra-Orthodox Jews in Britain have been teaching their children that the Gentiles are evil.)

        On the other hand, in pre-Israel times, not too Orthodox Jews in Britain and Australia managed it. Now, by their constant pushing of the pro-Israel line, they are losing some of that good will.

    • CigarGod
      September 2, 2015, 10:21 am

      Like republican or democratic leaders, who go into meetings, get their talking points, then get in front of the cameras and say the same thing…Hophmi and his buddies here do the same thing. They work off a list…which is given to them…and keep hammering the points until they get a new list. That’s why what they say makes no sense and doesn’t reflect a grounding in Judaism.

      1. 40%
      2. Pallywood
      3. Thousands of rockets
      4. Surrounded by muslims
      5. Only democracy
      6. Holocaust
      7. Iranian nuke holocaust
      8. Etc.

    • Kris
      September 2, 2015, 3:10 pm

      @Hophmi: “Jews are quite “empowered” in France, and yet, they’re 40% of the victims of racist violence there. ”

      Except that they aren’t. A complaint is evidence only that someone says there was a crime. So 40% of the claims of racist violence are about Jews.

      What are the stats on racist violence in France, as verified by the French legal system, and what is the breakdown of victims by race?

      Or how about the stats on victims of violent crime in France, with the percentage of victims who are Jewish compared to the percentage of French citizens who are Jews?

      @Hophmi: “Jews in Sweden have been essentially forced out of Malmo, Sweden’s second largest city. ” You might be interested in this, “”Sweden’s “Damn Jew’ Problem,” http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/96146/swedens-damn-jew-problem . From the article:

      The Jews of Malmö, a community of about 1,500 in a city of 300,000, are living through a new form of anti-Semitism. This kind does not stem from neo-Nazis or right-wing extremists—traditional perpetrators of European Jew-hatred—but has come to the city through immigrants from North Africa and the Middle East and is part of a larger, countrywide problem of failed integration.

      According to the 2011 census, one in 10 Malmö citizens comes from the Middle East and North Africa, and ethnic Swedes are no longer in the majority among 15-year-olds.

      In Malmo, there is extremely high unemployment for Muslims, and, despite comparatively generous social welfare benefits, very high levels of frustration in the immigrant community, who would rather have normal, productive lives than collecting welfare and wishing they had not been forced to become refugees.

      It doesn’t take a Ph.D. in psychology to be able to understand that when Israel claims to act in the name of all Jews, everywhere, there is going to be violence against innocent Jews who have nothing to do with Israel and its crimes against humanity.

      I love bible verses, so I’ll share this one with you; it seems apropos:

      Job 4:8-9 My experience shows that those who plant trouble and cultivate evil will harvest the same. A breath from God destroys them. They vanish in a blast of his anger.

      Another way to say it is that you reap what you sow. Except in the case of Israel, where it is non-Israeli Jews who are harvesting the abuse and hatred sown by Israeli Jews.

      Unfortunately, as other commenters on mondoweiss have observed many, many times, the government of Israel considers violence towards non-Israeli Jews to be a helpful tool in luring Jews to move to the apartheid state.

      I love songs, too. “Brothers and sisters, don’t you know? You’re gonna reap just what you sow!” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXori_5zvdY

      • hophmi
        September 2, 2015, 3:40 pm

        “In Malmo, there is extremely high unemployment for Muslims”

        So by all means, solve the problem by driving out the few Jews who live there.

        “Another way to say it is that you reap what you sow.”

        Tell me, how many Jews have attacked Muslims because ISIS and Al-Qaeda claim to act on behalf of Islam?

        Another way to characterize your ridiculous argument is to label it blaming the victim.

      • Kris
        September 2, 2015, 4:59 pm

        @hophmi: “Tell me, how many Jews have attacked Muslims because ISIS and Al-Qaeda claim to act on behalf of Islam?”

        That is a poor analogy, hophmi. How many Jewish victims have ISIS and Al-Qaeda claimed? How many Jewish refugees have they created?

        OTOH, neocon Jews with power and influence in the U.S. have been successful at promoting wars on Islamic countries, creating massive death and suffering for Muslims. As well, these neocon Jews and their supporters have been successful for many decades at enabling Israel’s slow-motion genocide of the Palestinians.

        Israeli Jews, of course, have been directly responsible for the shattered lives of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. And Israel’s cruel treatment of African refugees is probably no secret to the immigrant population in Malmo, either.

        How is it “blaming the victim” to observe that justifiable anger at Israel is often taken out on innocent Jews?

      • hophmi
        September 8, 2015, 11:11 am

        “Jews with power and influence in the U.S. have been successful at promoting wars on Islamic countries, creating massive death and suffering for Muslims. As well, these neocon Jews and their supporters have been successful for many decades at enabling Israel’s slow-motion genocide of the Palestinians.”

        More antisemitism. These are American policies, not “neocon Jew” policies. They were promoted by Americans of many different faiths and backgrounds, including the President and Vice-President, neither one of whom was Jewish.

  4. Boomer
    September 1, 2015, 3:15 pm

    Thanks for the report. As usual, you are alert and willing to say something, where so many are not.

    “They said not a word about the American interest in having a deal, about the Middle East region’s interest in having a deal, let alone a word about Palestinian human rights under Israeli occupation.”

    Sad, but true.

    What has Obama done to help Palestinians, or to reduce America’s complicity in their oppression?

    • JWalters
      September 1, 2015, 6:50 pm

      I agree, this is an excellent article that advances the discussion. It raises the logical questions to raise.

      How do these people meeting with Obama decide, specifically, that the massive suffering and injustice inflicted on the Palestinians is a reasonable cost to ensure the Jewish community does not suffer another Holocaust?

      As you highlight, they do not explain their logic because they do not discuss the Palestinian part of the situation at all. They simply ignore all these facts.

      There are only a few possible explanations for this omission.

      1. They are unaware of the massive suffering and injustice inflicted on the Palestinians.

      2. Or they are aware, but they believe Palestinians don’t count. They are merely “beasts on two legs”, “grasshoppers” to be exterminated, “grass” to be mowed, while all Jews are God’s Chosen people, destined to rule the earth when “millenial times” arrive.

      3. Or they realize the Palestinians deserve justice as much as anybody, and that “Never Again” should apply to everyone, but they are under great pressure to play this role. Almost certainly financial at the bottom line.

      4. Or they have the mindset of the Money Power, that all life is meaningless, so there is no respect for others, no such thing as cruelty, and predators do whatever they want with their prey, which can be anybody.

      It seems to me they must divulge which of these they are for the discussion to continue in any meaningful way. Mondoweiss has many personal accounts of type (1) people who switched views when they added the other side to their picture. One Israeli official has a cute young female face, like an ad for toothpaste, with the most incendiary ideas, modeled on the most ruthless acts in her tribal history. She sounds like a (2). Category (3) would be tribe members who have made a point of studying the historical facts, and discovered the absurdity of the bible-based strategy. Category (4) would be people at the very center of money control and possession. They will have wanted it bad enough. Kingship control was always gang warfare.

  5. Mooser
    September 1, 2015, 3:37 pm

    Gosh, Hophmi, nobody knows the trouble we’ve seen.

  6. dbroncos
    September 1, 2015, 4:40 pm

    I’d love to see Obama take this behind closed doors meeting and turn it into a press conference in front of the Viet Nam Memorial. He could invite these Zionist billionaires to explain on national TV why American soldiers should be sent to fight and kill and die in defense of their fascist cult.

  7. yonah fredman
    September 1, 2015, 5:13 pm

    Phil Weiss ends the essay with a flourish: End Zionism now. But what is the content of that paragraph. Jews are powerful in the United States, therefore support for a Jewish state in Palestine should be ended now. This reflects what logic? There are two major Jewish communities in the world: America and Israel. And Phil is saying, “Hey american Jews. You are safe. You don’t need Israel. You can throw Israel under the bus.”

    • Mooser
      September 1, 2015, 5:49 pm

      ““Hey american Jews. You are safe. You don’t need Israel. You can throw Israel under the bus.”

      They shoulda thought of that before they became such an expensive embarrassment, not to mention hopelessly intransigent. Why, Yonah, is it our job to go down the tubes for them? Why should we throw away anything for those losers? They have had every chance.

      • Mooser
        September 1, 2015, 6:14 pm

        “You can throw Israel under the bus.”

        Yonah, there are 60,000 illegal Jewish settlers in Palestine from the US. That’s not counting the ones in Jerusalem. And their financial and political support.
        Are those people helping to keep Israel out of the ditch and on the right side of the road?

      • Citizen
        September 1, 2015, 7:37 pm

        Er, I thought those 60,000 American settlers were voluntary “bargaining chips” at Israel’s disposal. I bet they’d all laugh at that old painting of Custer’s Last Stand, eh?

    • amigo
      September 1, 2015, 6:03 pm

      “Phil Weiss ends the essay with a flourish: End Zionism now. But what is the content of that paragraph. Jews are powerful in the United States, therefore support for a Jewish state in Palestine should be ended now. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/09/obama-and-zionists#sthash.fwv5Cbsl.dpuf” yf

      The problem is so many Jews in America support/fund/excuse a Jewish State in all of Palestine.It is time to end that particular Jewish State and curtail Jewish misuse of it,s power in America and anywhere else zionism rears it,s ugly head.

      Alternatively , you apologists for Israeli oppression and colonialism can keep misusing your power and end up with no Jewish state anywhere.You will be ostracized in the US and unable to flee to your former Jewish state..Half of something is a whole lot better than a whole lot of nothing.

      Your choice

      • Mooser
        September 1, 2015, 6:18 pm

        “You will be ostracized in the US…”

        I fear an even more invidious fate may be actuated. We will be demoted, busted back to ordinary individuals and American citizens.

      • JWalters
        September 1, 2015, 7:01 pm

        Being merely equal may be more comfortable in the long run than being “superior”.

      • Citizen
        September 1, 2015, 7:39 pm

        @ Mooser
        Heh. The moose’s antlers are strong.

      • Mooser
        September 1, 2015, 8:11 pm

        “Citizen” it’s obvious to me. Israel suffers from a very serious dual-loyalty problem.

    • JWalters
      September 1, 2015, 7:12 pm

      yonah,

      You miss Phil’s focus. He is saying American Jews can think for themselves about the case Israel is making. You want their thinking to begin with the assumption that they will go along with whatever the Israelis want, because they are fellow Jews. And not only that they are the truest Jews since they are living in Israel, and you’re not.

      Unfortunately for your case, schools in America have been teaching the practice of thinking for ourselves for some time now. So you’re not going to have much luck getting Phil or anybody else here to give that up.

      But how long can you keep pretending to be shocked when they think for themselves again!

    • yonah fredman
      September 1, 2015, 9:26 pm

      Okay. Let’s take Phil’s last paragraph:
      The issue now is whether the Holocaust is reflective of the Jewish experience today or in its entirety.

      Answer: No. The Holocaust is not reflective of the Jewish experience today, neither in Israel, nor in America. (Less so in America than in Israel, for in America, as long as democracy rules, then only laws can be used against the Jews in America. In Israel, the Jews are vulnerable to catastrophe from hostile forces in a way that American Jews are not vulnerable to hostile forces as long as law prevails in america.)

      phil- Last Friday Stephen Greenberg cast Jews as a vulnerable people always dependent on great powers. That view seems anachronistic to me, and steeped in victimization.

      The Jews in Israel are a vulnerable people vis a vis, the exertion of Iranian power as in support for Hamas and Hezbollah. (This vulnerability is partially due to Israeli acts that lead to hatred from Hezbollah and Hamas. It is also due to the rejection of many Muslims and Arabs of any sizable, self ruling Jewish population. Although this rejection may be deemed as a just response to historical circumstances. Viewing the rejection of the rights of Jews to live in the region and to rule themselves, is not victimization, but an assertion of the right to survive in the region. It is not steeped in victimization.)

      Plus, the Jews in Israel could quite conceivably become vulnerable vis a vis, Iran, once Iran has a bomb, for Mutually Assured Destruction is a form of vulnerability and it is not a form of invulnerability. So the nukes that Iran will be able to build in 15 years will present Israel with another category of vulnerability.

      Phil: And that view has produced the orgy of selfish concerns that we saw in Obama’s Friday talks. I see Jews as empowered actors on the American stage. Our identity ought to reflect that reality; and our politics ought to reflect that identity. End Zionism now.

      This is just a mishmash of emotions. American Jews are not the vulnerable ones, Israel Jews are the vulnerable ones. Our identity according to Phil ought to reflect a denial of any connection to the Jews in Israel. That is the reality that phil says we should reflect.

      The Jewish concern for fellow Jews is not anti American per se, although it is feasible that America needs to toss Israel under the bus and then Jewish concern for fellow Jews in this instant produces a situation of going against American interests.

      The cause of justice for the Palestinians specifically in the West Bank and Gaza, ought to raise questions of how are American Jews who feel a connection to Israeli Jews supposed to express and effect change so that the rights of the West Bank and Gaza Palestinians is not suppressed. But this does not add up to End Zionism now. In other words one can favor pressuring Israel as doing the best for Israel to save itself. But Phil is not saying that: he’s saying. you american jews are powerful. the best way to reflect the fact of your power is to feel nothing towards the jews of Israel and toss them under the bus. Don’t try to save them. Don’t try to change them. abandon them. that’s how you will reflect the true facts of your lack of need for a back up country.

      as the distance in time from the migrations of 1881 to 1920 fade and the catastrophe of 1939 to 1945 fade, and the religion with its emphasis on kinship with other Jews alive today fades and is replaced by wisps of culture frayed beyond recognition. the common kinship of american jews with Israeli jews will lead to alienation and estrangement. But this inevitable weakening of the Jewish faith is a loss and not a gain, for although Jewish kinship is not as important as morality and justice, it is the means by which the Jews have some hope of surviving modernity as a group and not merely as individuals and so Jewish kinship is something to be protected and savored. certainly not, Israel right or wrong. but when it is wrong to work to correct it and to create a future of strength and fairness.

      • Mooser
        September 1, 2015, 10:11 pm

        “American Jews are not the vulnerable ones, Israel Jews are the vulnerable ones.”

        Gosh, then maybe they should try doing something different. At any rate, no matter what, I doubt you will find many American Jews who are willing to go down the toilet for Israel. Why should we? You’ve been warned, over and over, you’ve had every chance, and now you want us to cut our own throats for you? You don’t listen, and all you do is take advantage of us, over and over. Not gonna happen.

        And Yonah, will you stop with that Iran-Hamas-Hezbollah shit?

      • Mooser
        September 1, 2015, 10:19 pm

        “the religion with its emphasis on kinship with other Jews”

        Sure, Yonah, that’s all we’ve seen lately out of the National Orthodox and the Chef Rabbinate! A big emphasis on Jewish kinship. Yonah, who are you trying to fool?

        Yonah, can you just answer one simple question? Israel and Zionism does nothing but take advantage of, and kick American Jews in the teeth. Why is it our problem to bail your Zionist asses out of the bed you’ve made for yourselves? Hey! I’ve got a nutty idea! Why doesn’t Israel do something to help itself?

      • Mooser
        September 1, 2015, 10:37 pm

        ” that’s how you will reflect the true facts of your lack of need for a back up country.”

        After all, doesn’t everybody except us have a “back up country”? Everybody else has a “back up country”!

      • yonah fredman
        September 1, 2015, 11:53 pm

        To be clear: Jews that care minimally (or less) about other Jews, such as Phil Weiss, should abandon Zionism. They were never Zionistic in the first place and they never cared about Jews to begin with and so the whole worrying about Jews is foreign to them and thus End Zionism Now, makes sense. (The only feasible reason for these Jews to worry about Zionism is if there was a threat of a holocaust here in america and since there is no such threat unless law and order breaks down completely to a level unheard of in the 239 year history, so Zionism is for other Jews and not a need for American jews.) But there are a large group of Jews who care about other Jews and these are the ones who care about Israel and Zionism and to them: End Zionism Now, makes no sense. (Trying to blend pressure on Israel to improve its ability to survive which includes its ability to make peace with its neighbors or stop the injustice of the occupation, is another question and a difficult one to answer. But that is not End Zionism Now. That is Save Zionism Now. Save its soul and its purpose. but that is not what Phil Weiss is about. Phil is about End Zionism Now. End feelings towards these Jews who are not American now. That’s what he’s preaching.) Phil is preaching to his choir (of Jews who really don’t care) and he doesn’t share the sentiments or speak the same language as the Jews who do care about other Jews.

      • Jabberwocky
        September 2, 2015, 1:10 am

        Yonah, You mention that American Jews are protected by the equal application of law in a democracy. This is what the Palestinians wanted in Palestine and given the Mandate there would have been a Palestine and not just an expansion of Egypt and Jordan as you try to claim.

        The insistence of Zionists to take Palestinian land and have self rule was a denial of democracy and the seeds of a racist, supremacist society. That is the source of the problem and the issue that Zionists cannot accept.

      • Mooser
        September 2, 2015, 10:37 am

        “They were never Zionistic in the first place”

        “Zionistic”? In case anybody doesn’t know “Zionistic” is defined as “having a definite tendency toward Ziocaine Syndrome episodes”.

        Stop with the antisemitic tropes, already, “Yonah” And please, please, don’t start those long “mutters” again. In the corner, looking daggers at Phil and Annie, and muttering under your breath about “Zionistics”. Not an attractive picture “Yonah”
        Don’t forget to spit every now and then.

      • Mooser
        September 2, 2015, 11:07 am

        “That is Save Zionism Now. Save its soul and its purpose.”

        Of course, Zionism’s actions we must simply overlook. And the “soul and the purpose” is to steal a country.

        I know, Yonah, we’re Jewish, they owe us.

      • Mooser
        September 2, 2015, 11:20 am

        “Phil is preaching to his choir (of Jews who really don’t care) and he doesn’t share the sentiments or speak the same language as the Jews who do care about other Jews”

        Good point, “Yonah”! So, what do you figure the percentages are? I mean the ratio of “Jews who do care about other Jews” to “Jews who really don’t care”
        Gee, Yonah, maybe the ratio is the same as, say, the ratio of observant Jews to the much greater number of non-observant Jews?
        Would you like to offer a ratio (it would be better than the usual ration of… sorry) of ‘Jew carers’ to ‘Jew non-carers’?

      • eljay
        September 2, 2015, 11:21 am

        || yonah fredman @ September 1, 2015, 9:26 pm ||

        That’s an awful lot of words just to say that you believe in Jewish supremacism in/and a supremacist “Jewish State”.

        || … The Jews in Israel are a vulnerable people vis a vis, the exertion of Iranian power as in support for Hamas and Hezbollah. … Plus, the Jews in Israel could quite conceivably become vulnerable vis a vis, Iran, once Iran has a bomb … ||

        The Jews in Israel are Israeli. The non-Jews in Israel – 20% of the Israeli population – are also Israeli, and they are also vulnerable people v-à-v the exertion of Iranian power and could also quite conceivably become vulnerable v-à-v Iran once it has the bomb.

        Sure, I get that non-Jewish Israelis aren’t worth as much as Jewish Israelis, but IMO they do merit some small measure of consideration nevertheless.

    • echinococcus
      September 2, 2015, 1:44 am

      Hey american Jews. You are safe. You don’t need Israel. You can throw Israel under the bus.

      Finally some good, sane logic!
      Strange that it is coming from Mr. Fredman, but miracles have been said to happen.
      Congratulations for having finally seen the reality, Mr Fredman. You now have my respect (I must confess to deep, hard to hide contempt until now.)

      One little remark, though. It would be fitting to say “throw Israel under the Caterpillar bulldozer” rather than “under the bus”.

      Regards.

      • Mooser
        September 2, 2015, 10:44 am

        “Hey american Jews. You are safe. You don’t need Israel. You can throw Israel under the bus.”

        Yonah ought to know. That’s exactly what he did when he couldn’t make it in occupied Jerusalem. He scurried home to the good ol USA (“Where hamburgers sizzle on an open grill, night and day!”)

      • echinococcus
        September 3, 2015, 12:21 am

        Is it perhaps because he’d need a nice kielbasa or a pork chop once in a while? A man can’t live on kosher beef only. I know I missed them a lot when I was working in Turkey.

  8. lysias
    September 1, 2015, 5:54 pm

    If the Jewish state had been set up in Uganda, that people’s talents might have been enough to assure the survival of white rule in southern Africa: Kenya, Rhodesia, South Africa, and the Portuguese colonies in Angola and Mozambique. Maybe even a continuation of Belgian rule in the Congo.

    Could have happened. But isn’t it a horrible thought?

    • JWalters
      September 1, 2015, 7:20 pm

      It seems to me Gandhi’s takedown of British power in India would inevitably spread. The freedom that equality brings is fundamental. But good talent, honestly applied, is always helpful and welcome.

    • Citizen
      September 1, 2015, 7:40 pm

      It’s not a crazy proposition.

  9. Citizen
    September 1, 2015, 7:08 pm

    What a top U.S. #IsraelFirst Jewish diplomat really thought of #Netanyahu — from the Hillary e-mail stash http://wpo.st/nuYY0
    Freier. Agh.
    AKA Why U can’t support any Israeli leader as a way to advance peace.

    • ckg
      September 1, 2015, 9:18 pm

      Excellent, Citizen. The Clinton email trove is wonderful.

  10. geofgray
    September 1, 2015, 7:39 pm

    It’s embarrassing for the president to always kiss AIPACs ass. He’s like a uxurious husband. It’s never enough.

    • Citizen
      September 1, 2015, 7:43 pm

      Yes, very self-indulgent; is he thinking bottom line, how to maintain his golf course pleasure at the best clubs post POTUS? What else else could it be at this juncture? Eternal debt to the ilk like Penny Pritzker? His surrogate mom?

  11. traintosiberia
    September 1, 2015, 11:13 pm

    Eisner can’t ofer anything other than an advice of an unprovoked
    war against Iran . That’s her way to mend relation with Israel. That’s the way Obama can put American Jewish at ease.
    ” they turn the city into a graveyard and call it a peace”

  12. RoHa
    September 2, 2015, 1:22 am

    “The president told both audiences that he wouldn’t be president if not for Jewish Americans.”

    Anti-Semite! Blaming the Jews yet again.

  13. yourstruly
    September 2, 2015, 2:07 am

    Michel Siegal of the Jewish Federations told President Barack Obama that “Jews get unsettled and anxious whenever there’s “daylight” between the American government and Israel? Some Jews, perhaps, but fewer and fewer now, based on recent polls as well as on the rapid growth of anti- Zionist organizations such as Jewish Voices for Peace. Surely President Obama knows this, what with Jewish supporters of the Iran nuclear agreement going all out to bring their position on said accord before Congress and the White House. Perhaps he was too polite to remind his Israel-firster visitors that, despite their claim, they don’t speak for all Jews. Too bad there was no one in the oval office to speak for the growing number of us Jews who are grateful for all this “daylight” and eagerly look forward to the day when the special relationship between the the U.S. and Israel will be a thing of the past.

  14. Boomer
    September 2, 2015, 6:00 am

    Juan Cole has a new piece that seems to fit here. It says something about Zionist power in America and about the oppression of Palestinians. http://www.juancole.com/2015/09/proposal-starving-children.html

  15. Kay24
    September 2, 2015, 6:50 am

    An interesting article from Juan Cole. It shows that Netanyahu overestimated his “control” of the Congress (and the US), and was under the illusion that turning congress against the President was as easy as extracting an invitation to speak in congress condemning the President’s efforts to avoid a war. This time the Dems did the right thing.

    “The Israel lobbies don’t win every fight on Capitol Hill, but over time they have tended to win the big ones in recent decades. This time, they are going down. Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu, a notorious narcissist, appears to have completely over-estimated his ability to deploy those lobbies to overrule President Obama on the United Nations Security Council’s deal with Iran to monitor its civilian nuclear energy program so as to forestall any break-out toward an atomic bomb.”

    http://www.juancole.com/2015/09/obama-netanyahu-public.html#comment-347642

  16. amigo
    September 2, 2015, 9:25 am

    Well , one thing for sure is that Israel does not see Iran as big a threat as Palestinians.There are only two Jews in the room with POTUS.

    “Six Jews sitting in the White House discussing the Palestinian state’
    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/sitting-discussing-palestinian” Michael Oren.

  17. ckg
    September 2, 2015, 10:33 am

    AP is reporting that Sen Mikulski is supporting the deal, giving Obama 34 votes in the Senate.

    • ckg
      September 2, 2015, 11:01 am

      Incidently, in the latest Clinton email dump, one of the emails was to Mikulski: “Now, let’s wrap this up in the Senate and go drink something unhealthy! All your AIPAC friends told me you’re doing well so take care and keep going — w the wind at you back and my fervent cheers — Hillary.”

      I think Mikulski will be needing some new friends now.

  18. Citizen
    September 2, 2015, 10:48 am

    Mikulski backs #IranDeal, giving Obama last needed vote http://on.mktw.net/1KHQqdD
    Good for US, World–even for Israel!

    • Kay24
      September 2, 2015, 11:15 am

      John Kerry right now giving a powerful speech about the Iran deal.

      He just referred to Netanyahu’s speech at the UN saying he held up a “cartoon bomb”.
      Love it.

      • Kay24
        September 2, 2015, 11:41 am

        Kerry just justified the violence against Gaza last year by bragging that the American iron domed we gave them, saved many Israeli lives……no mention of the violence against the Palestinians in Gaza, the excessive violence against women and children. Hate that.

      • CigarGod
        September 2, 2015, 12:04 pm

        He also used the winning phrase used in the Iraq war justification. – The president and I are convinced…”…beyond a reasonable doubt…”

      • Citizen
        September 2, 2015, 11:54 am

        Kerry: Important thing is not what deal will allow Iran to do, but what it will keep Iran from doing: building war nuke.

      • Kay24
        September 2, 2015, 12:02 pm

        In other words, Netanyahu is a damn liar:

        “Nuclear Fight Has Weakened AIPAC, Says Former U.S. Senator
        Claim that Iran’s nuclear program has military objectives fabricated by Netanyahu, says former Democratic senator Mike Gravel”.

        read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.674149

  19. eGuard
    September 2, 2015, 9:07 pm

    Why doesn’t anyone notice, MW home office especially, that conflating “Jews” with “Israel” is racist, especially anti-Semitic?

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