Trump aide blows off Zionist gala, and Dershowitz warns that politicizing Israel means ‘we could lose’

US Politics
on 100 Comments

The Israel lobby appears to be losing power before our eyes. Last night the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) held its gala in New York, and Steve Bannon, the promoter of white nationalism whom Trump has named as a top White House counselor, was invited but was a no-show.

Bannon blowing off the rightwing Zionist group is surely worrisome to the ZOA. The group stuck its neck out for Bannon in recent days, saying he is no anti-Semite; and by not appearing, Bannon expressed disdain for Sheldon Adelson, who funds the ZOA and gave $25 million to the Trump campaign. “ZOA and Adelson look like muppets,” writes a friend who watches the organized Jewish community.

ZOA President Morton Klein sought to cover his behind; he told Haaretz “he believes protesters led Steve Bannon to stay away from annual gala.”

Several hundred demonstrators led by several progressive Jewish groups, IfNotNow, Jewish Voice for Peace, and Jews for Economic and Racial Justice, marched outside the Grand Hyatt in protest of Bannon. Here is Jewish Voice for Peace’s report. The chant: “Nazis are not welcome here.”

Alan Dershowitz, who has defended Bannon against anti-Semitism charges, spoke at the ZOA gala and sought to tamp down divisions in the Jewish community. He expressed the fear that the breakup of Jewish consensus on Israel could lead to the issue becoming politicized in the U.S., and Americans abandoning Israel. From the Jerusalem Post:

 “I don’t ever want to see ZOA, and I’m not suggesting this is happening, become the mirror image opposite of J Street, because that causes tremendous division within the Zionist community… The Zionist Organization of America should not take sides on Israeli domestic politics or on American domestic politics.”…

[A] US presidential election should never become “a referendum on Israel.”

“Why? because we could lose,” he said. “One thing we cannot accept is putting Israel’s faith in the hands of our election system. We must always make sure that both parties, and candidates for both parties, support Israel.”

Jewish Insider quotes Dershowitz further re bipartisanship:

“One thing we cannot accept is, we put Israel’s fate in the hands of an election system. We must always make sure that both parties and candidates for both parties support Israel, so we will not be in a situation where one party loses the election, it would be bad for Israel.”

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and J Street, the liberal Israel lobby group, have been condemning the Bannon appointment. But the leading Israel lobby group, AIPAC, has had nothing to say about Bannon’s appointment. It is surely afraid of the Israel lobby dividing over this issue.

“AIPAC is fearfully silent,” writes my friend. “Israel wants bunker busters. And James Mattis [potential Pentagon choice of Trump] could say no. And Bannon is an ex navy commander. American Jewish Committee will emerge with a calm voice, but Trump and Bannon have cut the community down a notch or two.”

Meantime, Yaron London, an Israeli media personality, writing in Ynet, instructs American Jews that a little anti-Semitism is good for us. Enough so that American Jews continue to believe in Zionism, the ideology of Jewish national deliverance, which depends on the existence of anti-Semitism. Right now Jews are too comfortable in America; and this has undermined the ideology of Zionism. London:

all forms of Zionism hold the perception that a certain extent of anti-Semitism benefits the Zionist enterprise. To put it more sharply, anti-Semitism is the generator and ally of Zionism. Masses of Jews leave their place of residence only when their economic situation and physical safety are undermined. Masses of Jews are shoved to this country rather than being attracted to it. The yearning for the land of Zion and Jerusalem is not strong enough to drive millions of Jews to the country they love and make them hold on to its clods…

The Jews’ comfortable situation in America raises doubts as to whether it was worthwhile to gamble on the establishment of a Jewish state. The normalization did not provide us, the Israelis, with a normal existence and did not lessen the anti-Semitism which is now drawing some of its arguments from the way we are managing the conflict with the Palestinians. There are Israelis whose parents or grandparents immigrated to Israel out a belief that this is where the agonizing historical journey will end, and now their offspring are learning that the promise has not been fulfilled.

In order to remove these malignant doubts, it would be good to have some anti-Semitism in America. Not serious anti-Semitism, not pogroms, not persecutions that will empty America from its Jews, as we need them there, but just a taste of this pungent stuff, so that we can restore our faith in Zionism.

P.S. Dershowitz has long expressed the understanding that unified American Jews, organized at the Israel lobby, are essential to Israel’s support. In his 1991 book Chutzpah, he called it the Jewish lobby:

When the “Jewish Lobby” defeats an enemy of Israel or of the Jews, we should proudly proclaim the victory of justice over injustice. When “Jewish contributors” influence the outcome of a media campaign, we should declare a victory of truth over falsity.

Seems like things are cracking up.

H/t Ali Abunimah on twitter. And Scott Roth.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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100 Responses

  1. eljay
    November 21, 2016, 11:31 am

    … Yaron London, an Israeli media personality, writing in Ynet, instructs American Jews that a little anti-Semitism is good for us. …

    … all forms of Zionism hold the perception that a certain extent of anti-Semitism benefits the Zionist enterprise. To put it more sharply, anti-Semitism is the generator and ally of Zionism. …

    … it would be good to have some anti-Semitism in America. …

    With Jewish friends like these, who needs enemies?

    … Dershowitz has long expressed the understanding that unified American Jews, organized at the Israel lobby, are essential to Israel’s support. In his 1991 book Chutzpah, he called it the Jewish lobby:

    When the “Jewish Lobby” defeats an enemy of Israel or of the Jews, we should proudly proclaim the victory of justice over injustice. …

    Victory should be proclaimed when the universal and consistent application of justice, accountability and equality triumphs over injustice and immorality. Zio-supremacists, Zio-supremacism and religion-supremacist “Jewish State” are examples of the latter and not the former. Theirs are victories of injustice over justice.

    • Mooser
      November 21, 2016, 2:26 pm

      “In order to remove these malignant doubts, it would be good to have some anti-Semitism in America. Not serious anti-Semitism, not pogroms, not persecutions that will empty America from its Jews, as we need them there, but just a taste of this pungent stuff, so that we can restore our faith in Zionism.”

      Of course, a statement like that won’t raise any “malignant doubts” in the mind of any American Jews. Not at all.

      • Mooser
        November 21, 2016, 3:20 pm

        “… it would be good to have some anti-Semitism in America…”

        Perhaps Yaron London would like to volunteer his house for a drive-by?

      • eljay
        November 21, 2016, 3:38 pm

        || Mooser: … Perhaps Yaron London would like to volunteer his house for a drive-by? ||

        I suspect Mr. London prefers to let others enjoy the fruits of anti-Semitism rather than sample them himself. He’s a real peach that way.

      • Mooser
        November 21, 2016, 4:06 pm

        No, it wouldn’t be right.

        It’s obvious that anti-Semitism terrifies Mr. London.

    • yonah fredman
      November 21, 2016, 4:14 pm

      Yaron London’s tone should be read with the delivery of Eric Severaid (z’l), skewering Israel’s weaknesses. The full article deserves a read and not the facile treatment of the commentators here.

      • Mooser
        November 21, 2016, 4:45 pm

        “Yaron London’s tone should be read with the delivery of Eric Severaid (z’l), skewering Israel’s weaknesses. The full article deserves a read and not the facile treatment of the commentators here.”

        You bet, “Yonah”! How “facile” it is to dismiss the intellectual force of antisemitism and reject the social utility of antisemitism! Why shouldn’t antisemitism be available to Jews, too? Don’t we have a right, an obligation to recommend, to laud, antisemitism, if antisemitism can be of benefit to Zionism? (And there seems little doubt of that per Mr London)
        Besides, antisemitism,( although this may seem counter-intuitive to anybody except you,) could lead to the recognition of Jews as a separate people in America! Wouldn’t that be great, “Yonah”?

      • Donald Johnson
        November 21, 2016, 6:59 pm

        You’re right, I think. I just read it and he seemed to be writing in an ironic tone– he also mentioned what he called the embarrassing fact that Israel worked to prevent Soviet Jews from going to the US. Not exactly what I would expect from a cheerleader.

      • echinococcus
        November 22, 2016, 2:53 pm

        Johnson,

        I read it several times. Where is the irony you mention? Every single word is ascertained fact.
        This wouldn’t be the first time that a Zionist is brutally frank. In fact, that makes them harder to beat.

        Go over it point by point: some kind of racism against Jews is the lifeblood of Zionism; it is importing people to Palestine as cannon fodder, not persons to take care of; no one but crazies really wants to emigrate in the absence of economic-social difficulties and/or prejudice; creating the impression of prejudice is very hard in the US; Trump is a welcome help.

        Much more important than the antisemitism invention, from a propaganda viewpoint, is the following:

        If Trump’s people are more disgusted by Arabs than they are by Jews, we have struck quite a good deal.

        Bingo.

      • eljay
        November 22, 2016, 3:11 pm

        Yes, it does seem that the irony is lost in the earnestness.

    • CigarGod
      November 22, 2016, 10:14 am

      “Double double toil and trouble, fire burn and cauldron bubble.” “Fillet of a fenny snake, in the cauldron boil and bake.”
      And just a pinch or three of anti-semitism.

      • rosross
        November 22, 2016, 3:27 pm

        “If Trump’s people are more disgusted by Arabs than they are by Jews, we have struck quite a good deal.”

        If Trump’s people have a modicum of intelligence, and no doubt many do, they will know that Arab is a cultural definition applying to citizens of many countries and followers of many religions, as is the term European, and Jew applies to followers of Judaism, i.e. a religion.

        This issue is not and was never about Arabs anymore than it was about Europeans, but solely about the colonial war Zionist Israel wages against Palestinians.

        To seek to conflate the Palestinians with the entire Arab world, is as erroneous as it would be to conflate Jewish Israelis with Europeans, since most of them originated there before embarking on their colonial venture.

        Zionists like to use the generic ‘Arab’ so they can avoid the ‘P’ word and pretend the Palestinians do not exist but I doubt if even Trumpland will fall for that one, and even if they did, the world in general knows the reality.

      • echinococcus
        November 22, 2016, 4:57 pm

        Rosross,

        All that is true, but it remains irrelevant to the propaganda point.

        It’s not about “Trump’s people” and the degree of their intelligence but the collective American crowd, essentially Dims and Pukes combined, and their documented absence of any brain activity as a collective, first of all the power of thoughtless feelings of largely inconscious, rationally unjustified sympathy and antipathy.
        Propaganda.

        That’s where the most relevant game is and all our highly paid Luntzes, Goebbelses, Bernays and similar beasts in all main media, in AIPAC, ZOA, ADL, the Zionist entity PM’s office, etc. etc. are working.
        Not in anything involving thinking.

  2. amigo
    November 21, 2016, 2:10 pm

    ADL to revise it,s mission statement .

    The new goal is to preserve the appropriate level of antisemitism .A new committee has been formed to identify what is the right level of Antisemitism and elect a chairperson to lead this highly important task.Israel cannot survive without the existence of Antisemitism.Jews everywhere should realise that all antisemitism is not bad. The new committee may propose dropping the claim that anti Israel speech is not antisemitic.

    All groups whose goal to date was to stamp out all antisemitism are to stand down until new guidelines are available from the appropriate authorities.Some groups will be disbanded and their resources directed to other tasks.

    • Maghlawatan
      November 21, 2016, 5:24 pm

      “One thing we cannot accept is, we put Israel’s fate in the hands of an election system. We must always make sure that both parties and candidates for both parties support Israel, so we will not be in a situation where one party loses the election, it would be bad for Israel.” –

      To date that has been done with money.
      Meanwhile back at the ranch the American working class has been pauperised.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmLNs6zQIHo

      They just voted for a thug to help them . He promised them all a pony
      He doesn’t care about them. He will betray them. there won’t be any ponies.
      The people will be very angry. The thug will attempt to distract them by starting a war or targeting a minority. Which one ? the one with the money to game the political system?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX8szNPgrEs

      Shammai is very messy.

  3. amigo
    November 21, 2016, 2:20 pm

    So all those seeking to stamp out all Antisemitism will be labelled Antisemitic.

    Only in zioland.

    • Mooser
      November 21, 2016, 3:00 pm

      “amigo”, if establishment Jews are the ones specifying the who the “renegade Jews” are can we call it antisemitism? No, it’s just calling out bad people who happen to be Jewish.

      BTW, what happened to Muslim anti-semitism in America? Disappeared overnite when antisemitism became the property of the alt-right, didn’t it?

      • amigo
        November 21, 2016, 4:28 pm

        “amigo”, if establishment Jews are the ones specifying the who the “renegade Jews” are can we call it antisemitism? No, it’s just calling out bad people who happen to be Jewish.”Mooser

        I was simply pointing out the existence of a myriad of groups calling for the end of all antisemitism and now along comes dersh/Yaron London et al , and states that some level of anti semitism is good/ necessary for Israel. Kinda puts ADL and others in a difficult position.

        “BTW, what happened to Muslim anti-semitism in America? Disappeared overnite when antisemitism became the property of the alt-right, didn’t it? ” Mooser.

        Yup , victory of might over right.

    • Maghlawatan
      November 21, 2016, 5:28 pm

      He was arrested on October 26 and has been held since for questioning by the Shin Bet security service, and for most of this period has been barred access to a lawyer.
      According to the minutes in the case, at the hearing on a second remand on November 9, he told a military court judge in Petah Tikva, Maj. Yaron Ben Yosef: “You can establish from the doctor that I have back and shoulder pain, and three days ago I had numbness in my left arm as a result of the pain, and the pain has gone to my chest. Since Sunday they haven’t let me sleep. The interrogator has been just sitting there, as if he was guarding me … and their aim is for me not to sleep. Most of the interrogators have asked me more about whether I like seeing my wife without clothes on. One interrogator asked me: ‘How old is your son?’ I said ’18 years old.’ They said he will go to work for Israel as a collaborator.”
      read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.754252

  4. Jackdaw
    November 21, 2016, 3:32 pm

    “Bannon blowing off the rightwing Zionist group is surely worrisome to the ZOA”

    You’re assuming Bannon simply didn’t have something better to do.

    The nascent Trump administration is working overtime now, and partying may not be on their agenda right now.

    • Mooser
      November 21, 2016, 4:15 pm

      “The nascent Trump administration is working overtime now…”

      …in your interests, “Jackdaw”! You can count on that.

      • Jackdaw
        November 22, 2016, 12:01 am

        @Mooser

        My interests are in humanity. Your interests are in Kleenex.

      • Mooser
        November 22, 2016, 12:55 pm

        “My interests are in humanity. Your interests are in Kleenex.”

        Wow, “Steve Grover” isn’t the only one who can hurl zingers like hand grenades!

    • amigo
      November 21, 2016, 4:48 pm

      “The nascent Trump administration is working overtime now, and partying may not be on their agenda right now “.jackduh

      Are you suggesting that the “Trump administration ” blew off the rightwing zionist group in favour of the citizens of the USA. Hmmm, not a good start , eh.

    • Maghlawatan
      November 21, 2016, 4:53 pm

      Zionism has always been the modern version of Tammany Hall. What killed Tammany Hall in the end ?

      • CigarGod
        November 22, 2016, 10:31 am

        Damn good example.

    • Maghlawatan
      November 21, 2016, 5:29 pm

      Is Bannon “good for the Jews”, Jackdaw?

      • Jackdaw
        November 22, 2016, 12:04 am

        “Is Bannon “good for the Jews”, Jackdaw? ”

        How the fuck should I know?

        “What killed Tammany Hall in the end ? ”

        Who the fuck cares?

      • Maghlawatan
        November 22, 2016, 4:54 pm

        Jackdaw Tammany Hall’s fate is the one that awaits Zionism

  5. Maghlawatan
    November 21, 2016, 4:05 pm

    Dersh talks about J Street as if it is an STD. His strawman. The evil J Street. The selfhating enemy of the Jewish people. Then Julius Streicher 2.0 rolls up and the Dersh loosens his buttons. The nonsense aspect of power. The boy who cried anti-Semite

  6. Maghlawatan
    November 21, 2016, 4:49 pm

    Dersh warns about politicising Israel. Facepalm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KMVhb57RqI

  7. Dan Walsh
    November 21, 2016, 6:35 pm

    In Arabic we say “ana mortubak jiddan”

    (I am so confused)

    According to Allison Derger’s essay here at MW on October 25:

    “British lawmakers have said the word “Zionist” as a pejorative “has no place in a civilised society” and recommend considering a victim’s feelings when deciding if a criminal investigation into anti-Semitism should be launched, said an annual report on anti-Semitism published last week by a cross-party group in Parliament.”

    But its ok for Dershowitz and London to use the term whenever/wherever without it being a perjorative? How does that work, exactly? Is that a function of Zionist privilege? If Dershowitz or London spoke in the UK and used the term “Zionist” would they be blacklisted? Would an investigation be launched into their antisemitism?

    Words matter and we cooperate in our own infantilization when we Others allow Zionists to demand that we self-censor in the face of their immunity.

    Finally, how do Dershowitz and London define the terms “Zionist” and “antisemitic”?

    • straightline
      November 22, 2016, 4:42 am

      Lewis Carroll – Through the Looking Glass: “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

  8. JWalters
    November 21, 2016, 7:07 pm

    Interesting segment on Morning Joe today on Steve Bannon. It opens with a clip of Israeli ambassador Ron Dermer saying, “Israel has no doubt that president-elect Trump is a true friend of Israel, … and we look forward to working … with all the members of the Trump administration, including Steve Bannon”.

    Then has a clip of Jonathan Greenblatt, ADL CEO, saying, “This guy created Breitbart, essentially as a haven for the alt-right, a band of white supremacists who hate immigrants, Jews, Muslims, African-Americans, anyone who doesn’t comport to their notion of white supremacy”.

    The panelists disagree on whether the Trump trajectory is out of control or carefully planned. Another clip has Bannon likening Trump to Andrew Jackson, a populist president with rude supporters who took on the big banks for their pillaging of the public.

  9. JWalters
    November 21, 2016, 7:13 pm

    “anti-Semitism is the generator and ally of Zionism”

    Actually, anti-goyism was the main generator of Zionism. Herzl pushed for a Jewish state to stop the assimilation of Jews, who were being successfully accepted in Western Europe. Herzl was a Jewish supremacist and segregationist. Assimilation was his catastrophe.

    “When ‘Jewish contributors’ influence the outcome of a media campaign, we should declare a victory of truth over falsity.”

    That declaration would be one more brazen Zionist lie. The level of brazenness is breathtaking.

    • yonah fredman
      November 21, 2016, 9:30 pm

      What a cesspool mw comments has turned into. Who needs to go to Facebook for false news when we can come here for false history. Herzl was happy to assimilate, but the nonjew was not happy to have him around. J Walters and the hate. Keeping the tradition going. Hurray for mw comments!

      • talknic
        November 21, 2016, 11:53 pm

        @ yonah fredman “What a cesspool mw comments has turned into. Who needs to go to Facebook for false news when we can come here for false history. Herzl was happy to assimilate, but the nonjew was not happy to have him around”

        So he visited Palestine for only a few days even though he (and the rest of the Zionist Federation) could have in his life time gone to Palestine, gained citizenship, bought land and settled anywhere in the Jewish People’s historical homeland, preferring it seems to live in circumstances where he was allegedly hated.

        That makes ZioSense

      • yonah fredman
        November 22, 2016, 1:32 am

        Talknic- herzl was seeking a national solution, not a personal solution. A solution for the masses, not for himself .
        A man who was thoroughly assimilated- didn’t circumcise his sons, had a Christmas tree, he was scared of assimilation? Tell me some more fairy tales .

        Do you think you help the Palestinians with these fairy tales?

      • rhkroell
        November 22, 2016, 4:21 am

        Yonah is being historically accurate in pointing out that “Herzl was happy to assimilate, but [many] nonjew[s] w[ere] not happy to have him around.” It’s absurd to claim that “anti-goyism was the main generator of Zionism.” Logic demands that correct conclusions be based on valid premises. Herzl was neither a “Jewish supremacist” nor a “segregationist.” His motive for establishing a Jewish State must be understood in the historical context in which he lived, which could be described as a period in Europe when Jews were experiencing the consequences of a surge in Pan-Germanism, Pan-Slavism and anti-Semitism.” He was himself guilty of entertaining some of the stereotypes of Jews spread by ant-Semites. For example, he was so angry at the Sassoons, Montagus, Warburgs and other wealthy Jewish families of his time for not supporting his Zionist project that “it triggered an outburst on his part that would have delighted the troglodytes of the Jew-baiting gutter press but which he published in Die Welt [The World] [in] October 15, 1897, under the heading of Mauschel (Yid, or kike).” In “a diatribe [which] sizzles with primitive rage,” he identified the “Yid [as an] anti-Zionist” (qtd. in THE LABYRINTH OF EXILE: A LIFE OF THEODOR HERZL, Pawel, Ernst, Farrar, Strauss & Giroux, NY, 1989, pp. 345-346).

      • amigo
        November 22, 2016, 12:19 pm

        “What a cesspool mw comments has turned into. Who needs to go to Facebook for false news when we can come here for false history.” YF

        I have to ask , why you keep coming here if you seek the truth.Surely a man of your intellectual prowess and commitment to seeking the truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth would be far better rewarded driving up the “hits ” at J,Post or some such purveyor of the real truth —as you see it , instead of contributing to the continued existence of a cesspool of liars and narrators of false history.

        Why do you torture yourself so.

      • Mooser
        November 22, 2016, 12:25 pm

        “Who needs to go to Facebook for false news when we can come here for false history.”

        Here’s some for you, “Yonah”: Did you know the first use of “Judenstaat” was in Freidrich August Ludwig von der Marwitz’s 1811 petition to the King, complaining of Germany becoming “a newfangled Jewish State”

        “The very phrase Theodor Herzl later used to found the Zionist movement appears in this attack on the Jews as the bearers of capitalism” – Jonathan Steinberg “Bismarck, A Life” (Oxford Press 2011)

      • Mooser
        November 22, 2016, 1:13 pm

        ” herzl was seeking a national solution, not a personal solution. A solution for the masses, not for himself”

        Awww, an aspiring megalomaniac! Every boy should have an ambition for everybody else..

      • eljay
        November 22, 2016, 1:19 pm

        || amigo: … Why do you torture yourself so. ||

        y.f. is (or seems to be) one of those people who isn’t happy unless he’s thoroughly miserable.

      • Mooser
        November 22, 2016, 2:03 pm

        “y.f. is (or seems to be) one of those people who isn’t happy unless he’s thoroughly miserable.”

        Since “Yonah” made aliyah, and subsequently left Israel he has pretty much lost any chance of happiness, or indeed, the right to any happiness. The poor schlump.

      • MHughes976
        November 22, 2016, 4:36 pm

        I’m somewhat with you, Yonah. The point of no return for Herzl, a very successful playwright and journalist, was Karl Lueger’s installation as Mayor of Vienna in 1897. Lueger (a strangely Trump-like figure) seems to have dealt Germanic liberalism a blow from which it never recovered – and though his anti-Semitism seems to have been a bit fake it must have been extremely painful for all Austrian Jews and must indeed have made them think that maybe they should move elsewhere. I do think that one potential outcome of this thought was ‘Jews can’t ever really trust non-Jews’, a form of anti- nonsemitism.

      • talknic
        November 22, 2016, 7:22 pm

        Adding to the cesspit ZioStyle @ yonah fredman November 22, 2016, 1:32 am

        “A man who was thoroughly assimilated…

        “thoroughly assimilated” Right … Say is this yours

        ” Herzl was happy to assimilate, but the nonjew was not happy to have him around “

        Ziocaine appears to screw short term memory

        “A man who was thoroughly assimilated- didn’t circumcise his sons, had a Christmas tree, he was scared of assimilation?”

        If you say he was scared of assimilation. I haven’t.

        ” Tell me some more fairy tales”

        You’re doing fine. Make it up as you go along, then base your arguments on your own puerile fantasies

        “Do you think you help the Palestinians with these fairy tales?”

        It was YOUR fairy tale. There’s nothing false in what I wrote

      • JWalters
        November 22, 2016, 9:26 pm

        yonah,

        Herzl did say,

        “Wherever we remain politically secure for any length of time, we assimilate. I think this is not praiseworthy …”

        “We are a people — one people.”

        “Israel is our unforgettable historic homeland …”

        Herzl’s thinking is a mixed bag. On the one hand he envisions a “Palace of Peace” in Jerusalem that mediates international disputes. On the other he proposes getting rid of Palestinians to create Israel. “We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country.” He doesn’t say how the Palace of Peace would mediate the conflict between the dispossessed Palestinians and the incoming Jews because he doesn’t think there will be a problem. Other observers correctly foresaw war.

        He doesn’t consider the possibility that his arrogant attitude toward Palestinians might be a factor in problems between Jewish and goyim communities, and blames such conflicts entirely on groundless hostility toward immaculate victims. This is the same attitude as that of Ayelet Shaked, Netanyahu, and numerous other Israeli officials.

        Your conclusion that I am motivated by hatred of Jews is incorrect. It looks to me like a hair-trigger reaction to an aspect of the situation you don’t want to look at. This is a very human reaction. But progress toward peace will not be made by denying reality in favor of ethnic myths.

        rhkroell,

        Regarding Herzl’s “rage” at Edwin Montagu, Montagu wrote a memorandum explaining why he, and most Western European and American Jews at that time (Herzl was Eastern European), opposed the idea of a Jewish state. Whatever one may think of his conclusions, his arguments are AT LEAST as grounded in reality as Herzl’s (I think more so), and expressed in a coherent and civilized way. His memorandum is equally relevant today, and is here:
        http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15584.htm

      • RoHa
        November 22, 2016, 11:36 pm

        I particularly like the caustic line, “I have never heard it suggested, even by their most fervent admirers, that either Mr. Balfour or Lord Rothschild would prove to be the Messiah.”

      • RoHa
        November 22, 2016, 11:47 pm

        And we can, with profit, revisit Sir Isaac Isaacs.

        http://isaacisaacs.blogspot.com.au

      • yonah fredman
        November 23, 2016, 1:56 am

        Jwalters- herzl ‘s first plan to solve the judenfragge, was a massive baptism, with himself leading the way.
        Coin a beautiful phrase like anti goyism, and you certainly do not set the stage for an in depth discussion.
        Did you read amos Elon’s biography of herzl? I read it 35 years ago. If you’ve read it or some other book fully dedicated to the story of his life, I’d appreciate a reference .
        Here’s the details I recall. There were two currents in central europe at the time. Communism and nationalism. Herzl had pretty much zero tendency towards socialism. When he tried to join the German nationalist fraternity, he was told, you ain’t no kraut, yous a jew.
        He was a megalomaniac whose will in fact changed history, to the detriment of most Palestinians and to the salvation of hundreds of thousands of jews.
        His vision of the Jewish state had almost zero Jewish about it. He loved German culture and sold his plan as bringing the enlightened culture to a benighted part of he world. How is that anti european?
        Once he latched onto the plan of a Jewish state as a cure, he then analyzed the weaknesses of Jewish identity. He himself was exhibit number one of the assimilating jew. That is not anti european, that is an analysis of the bourgeois jew in Austrian society. Did the jews have the inner strength to stand up for sovereignty. Certainly the jews of German and middle European society did not. They provided very little in terms of the passion and population to the situation until the feces hit the fan in 33. It was the eastern jew under the czar that provided the passion and the people to herzl’s project, reaching the figure of 85,000 by the time of world War one.
        Again, the motivation of herzl is clearly the jew hatred of central europe. Your obfuscation is motivated by either malice or ignorance. You don’t seem ignorant.

      • jon s
        November 23, 2016, 2:22 am

        JWalters,
        The quote from Herzl is totally out of context. Efraim Karsh discussed it here:
        http://www.meforum.org/711/benny-morriss-reign-of-error-revisited

        This is the relevant part:

        “Consider, for example, Morris’s charge that Herzl wished to dispossess Palestinian Arabs because of his fear that the Jewish state would lack viability if it were to contain a large Arab minority. Morris bases this assertion only upon a truncated paragraph from Herzl’s June 12, 1895 diary entry, which had already been a feature of Palestinian propaganda for decades.[16] But this entry was not enough to support such a claim. Below is the complete text, with the passages omitted by Morris in italics:

        When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly … It goes without saying that we shall respectfully tolerate persons of other faiths and protect their property, their honor, and their freedom with the harshest means of coercion. This is another area in which we shall set the entire world a wonderful example … Should there be many such immovable owners in individual areas [who would not sell their property to us], we shall simply leave them there and develop our commerce in the direction of other areas which belong to us.[17]

        By omitting the opening sentence, Morris hides the fact that Herzl viewed Jewish settlement as beneficial to the indigenous population and that he did not conceive of the new Jewish entity as comprising this country in its entirety. This is further underscored by Herzl’s confinement of the envisaged expropriation of private property to “the estates assigned to us”—another fact omitted by Morris. Any discussion of relocation was clearly limited to the specific lands assigned to the Jews, rather than to the entire territory. Had Herzl envisaged the mass expulsion of population, as claimed by Morris, there would have been no need to discuss its position in the Jewish entity. Morris further ignored context. There was no trace of a belief in transfer in either Herzl’s famous political treatise, The Jewish State (1896), or his 1902 Zionist novel, Altneuland (Old-New Land).[18] Nor for this matter is there any allusion to “transfer” in Herzl’s public writings, his private correspondence, his speeches, or his political and diplomatic discussions. Morris simply discards the canon of Herzl’s life work in favor of a single, isolated quote.

        Most importantly, Herzl’s diary entry makes no mention of either Arabs or Palestine, and for good reason. A careful reading of Herzl’s diary entries for June 1895 reveals that, at the time, he did not consider Palestine to be the future site of Jewish resettlement but rather South America.[19] “I am assuming that we shall go to Argentina,” Herzl recorded in his diary on June 13. In his view, South America “would have a lot in its favor on account of its distance from militarized and seedy Europe … If we are in South America, the establishment of our State will not come to Europe’s notice for a considerable period of time.”[20] Indeed, Herzl’s diary entries during the same month illustrate that he conceived all political and diplomatic activities for the creation of the future Jewish state, including the question of the land and its settlement, in the Latin American context. “Should we go to South America,” Herzl wrote on June 9, “our first state treaties will have to be with South American republics. We shall grant them loans in return for territorial privileges and guarantees.” Four days later he wrote, “Through us and with us, an unprecedented commercial prosperity will come to South America.”[21]

        In short, Morris based his arguments on a red herring. He not only parsed a quote to distort its original meaning, but he ignored the context, which had nothing to do with Palestine or Arabs.”

      • Annie Robbins
        November 23, 2016, 6:41 am

        jon, i think (or recall reading) the decision of palestine for the jewish state came after Herzl’s death.

      • talknic
        November 23, 2016, 10:20 am

        jon s November 23, 2016, 2:22 am

        Interesting. You’ve shone a light on how the Jewish State even disregards Herzl in its vile coveting of non-Israeli territory.

        Congratulations. Keep up the good work

        ——
        Annie the decision of palestine for the jewish state came after Herzl’s death

        in May, 1898, the preliminary committee, consisting of David Wolfsohn and Dr. M. Bodenheimer of Cologne, and Dr. Rudolph Schauer of Mayence, issued the first statement of the proposed institution and the first call for subscriptions. The purposes of the trust were described as the economic development and strengthening of the Jewish colonies in Palestine and Syria,
        http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8632-jewish-colonial-trust-the-judische-colonialbank

      • jon s
        November 23, 2016, 11:43 am

        Annie,
        No, that’s not true. It is true that in “Der Judenstadt” (1896) Herzl is somewhat hazy as to the location of the Jewish state. However, in 1897, at the first Zionist Congress , the goal was set as follows:

        “Zionism seeks to establish a home for the Jewish people in Palestine secured under public law.”

        Herzl’s novel , “Altneuland” (1902), envisages the future Jewish state , in Palestine, Eretz Israel.

        In 1903, the Zionist Congress hotly debated the “Ugands Plan”, and ultimately rejected any alternative to the Jewish historic homeland. Zionism was focused on Zion.
        Herzl died in 1904.

      • MHughes976
        November 23, 2016, 3:25 pm

        Surely Herzl spoke favourably of the Uganda Proposal at the 1903 Sixth Z Congress, though saying it might well be merely temporary. An investigative team was sent – this provoked a walkout from the Russian delegates. It was only at Congress 7, 1905, that the UP was formally rejected, formally making Palestine the only real target. So I don’t think Annie’s so wrong. She very rarely is.

      • jon s
        November 23, 2016, 4:22 pm

        In short:
        -The Zionist movement declared its aim of establishing a Jewish home in Palestine.
        -The movement debated the Uganda plan as a temporary refuge, ultimately rejecting it.
        -The movement reconfirmed it’s commitment to Palestine.

      • amigo
        November 23, 2016, 4:37 pm

        “The movement reconfirmed it’s commitment to Palestine. ” Jon S

        Shouldn,t that read—“The movement reconfirmed it,s commitment to get rid of Palestine.

      • Maghlawatan
        November 23, 2016, 4:57 pm

        Jon

        In reality the Zionists had very few choices. They didn’t own land anywhere. The best place would have been somewhere in Europe. But it was too hard.

        Palestine is on the wrong side of the Med like French Algeria and Andalusia were.
        And the bride was already married.

        Israel was only viable with a US security guarantee. Jewish rituals tell us that empires come and go. Judaism has beaten them all. You can even get the tshirt. So America will fall too.

        I often walked down Ben Yehuda St thinking how vulnerable the whole project was. Lovely bagels but no inner calm .

      • echinococcus
        November 23, 2016, 8:18 pm

        John S,

        Who gives a rat’s bottom where exactly a bunch of racist, fake ultra-nationalist pirates wanted to start a racial supremacist state? It had to be somewhere, i.e. necessarily on other people’s land. Try to get your own @$$ out of Palestine before it gets too hot.

      • JWalters
        November 23, 2016, 9:02 pm

        RoHa, Thanks for the link to the Issac Issacs material. It’s very much like Montagu’s memorandum.

        yonah, Herzl could have been baptized, and written a book promoting that, but he did not. You agree that the physical energy for a Jewish state came from Eastern European Jews, not Western European Jews. Why? Because as per the links above to writings by Edwin Montagu and Issac Issacs, Western European Jews were successfully assimilating. Hungarian Jews were granted full equality in 1895. French Jews already had been under Napoleon. A main concern of Napoleon was usery, predatory financing, which he recognized was not practiced by all Jews.

        On the other hand, Eastern European Jewish communities were much more traditional religious communities. They torpedoed the idea of a Jewish state in Uganda or South America or anywhere but Palestine. Their political decendents today are the “settlers” in Israel and Palestine. The “settlers” today exhibit rampant Jewish supremacism and its accompanying anti-goyism.

        jon s, Herzl expresses contradictory positions in his effort to wrap predatory behavior in noble ideals. Many people have done this through history. Herzl is vague about how the Jews will actually create a Jewish state in Palestine, and claimed it would be no problem. Other people, including Zionist Ahad Ha’am, saw the use of force and war as inevitable to create a Jewish state. Because Palestine was NOT “a land without a people”, and the so-called “settlers” were not actually settling an uninhabited land.

        I suspect Herzl had a mix of emotions, attitudes, and views, possibly like “liberal Zionists” today. Some of these are simply incompatible. Equal justice for all is incompatible with one ethnic group being “special”.

      • MHughes976
        November 24, 2016, 2:37 am

        I agree, amigo, that ‘commitment to Palestine’ is a very strange way of describing Z intentions. Hoeever, the re-commitment in question did happen in 1905. It’s true that Herzl and no doubt others believed that everyone would benefit. But they also understood the obvious fact that if some move in, intent on making ‘this land ours’ or even running an economy in which existing residents are not going to be useful, some others must move out. Maybe to greater prosperity elsewhere, but out somehow.

    • Maghlawatan
      November 22, 2016, 12:33 am

      Assimilation was a catastrophe in the 1940s.
      Three quarters of Dutch Jews were murdered.

      The Apeldoornse Bos hospital evacuation to Auschwitz is one of the defining symbols of the madness of WW2 for me.

      http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/apeldoornsebos.html

      People were killed in the war but what other people was hunted down and even had its sick exterminated in industrial fashion? Perhaps only the gypsies

      And the past lives on

      http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/apr/05/tony-judt-right-questions/ “Judt’s Zionist teachers…would have said: “Even if the gentiles like you and treat you as one of their own, you will not like yourself. Indeed you will like yourself even less for just that reason.” As a result, you turn to a paranoid kind of Jewishness, living vicariously, as it were, with the ghosts of Nazi mass murder and the specters of Arab terror”

      Zionism would be fine in private between consenting adults. If Zionists want to wear magic underwear and swear loyalty to Lord Bunga Bunga that is their business.

      But not with the Palestinians as gimps.
      That is not acceptable.

      It is very messy

      • echinococcus
        November 22, 2016, 11:18 am

        Where is logic in deducing from a genocide perpetrated over the entirety of Nazi-occupied Europe that “Assimilation was a catastrophe in the 1940s”?
        Nazism was a catastrophe, WWII was a catastrophe.
        Defining a religion racially, as both Zionists and the Nazis did, was the catastrophe.
        Not is diametrical opposite.

      • Mooser
        November 22, 2016, 2:06 pm

        “Assimilation was a catastrophe in the 1940s”?

        Yeah, to know is to hate us. I think that is what “Yonah” means.

    • rosross
      November 22, 2016, 3:51 pm

      Was not the issue that Judaism, like quite a few religions then and still, demanded exceptionalism and marrying in to retain ‘purity.?’

      Such religious demands will always keep a group separate and indeed, do not have to be religious as the Romanies demonstrate. Some will escape but many will not and so as the centuries pass, the original ‘rules’ become a part of religious dogma and harder to break.

      No doubt when concepts of ‘marrying in’ arose, they did so for sensible reasons. Judaism is not the first or last religion to abide by such strictures but it might be the only one which has taken the exceptionalism of religious Self so far.

      I have seen Hindus, Jains, Jews devastated by the prospect of a child marrying out, in ways which would be considered racist if done by other religions. Having said that, it is barely a century since Catholics and Protestants demonstrated similar traumatic intolerance., and the fact that they managed to move on means anyone can do it and those religions who still feel a need to remain separate and to ‘marry in’ can also evolve.

      Then again, I have read most younger American Jews are marrying out, so clearly the evolution and assimilation is going on regardless and all to the good.

      • Maghlawatan
        November 22, 2016, 4:56 pm

        Intermarriage amonst non orthodox is over 50% in the US

        The orthodox are very like the evangelicals. I think . Moshiach is Hebrew for Rapture, mas o menos

      • echinococcus
        November 22, 2016, 5:06 pm

        Rosross,

        I have seen Hindus, Jains, Jews devastated by the prospect of a child marrying out, in ways which would be considered racist if done by other religions.

        It IS racist in most cases for Jews because it is not a question of religion: in the majority of such cases the persons involved are irreligious but consider themselves racially Jewish, regardless.

      • JWalters
        November 22, 2016, 9:46 pm

        rosross, I agree completely. Thanks for your examples from other cultures. “Ethnicism” in general is the problem. (The universe and its problems do not revolve around Judaism.)

      • RoHa
        November 23, 2016, 5:22 am

        “The universe and its problems do not revolve around Judaism.”

        It’s probably anti-Semitic to say that.

      • Mooser
        November 23, 2016, 2:03 pm

        ““The universe and its problems do not revolve around Judaism.”

        But I am pretty sure that if you check out our theology (or mishegos) you will see that we are convinced it does.

  10. JWalters
    November 21, 2016, 7:49 pm

    Another exceptionally insightful article by prize-winning investigative reporter Robert Parry at Consortium News, this one on Trump’s meeting with anti-neocon Democratic congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, in Trump’s Tulsi Gabbard Factor
    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/21/trumps-tulsi-gabbard-factor/

    • Annie Robbins
      November 21, 2016, 9:22 pm

      that’s excellent news jwalters

      • rhkroell
        November 22, 2016, 2:23 am

        I agree. Trump meeting with Rep. Tulsi Gabbard is good news.

      • rosross
        November 22, 2016, 2:00 pm

        I’m not sure what vets losing fertiity has to do with it, but, having suffered already, one presumes they have been told that IVF effects will not be known for two generations, i.e. until human beings created artificially have grown up to live relatively normal lives and given birth to children who do the same.

        And since the evidence emerging is that artificially created human beings are generally infertile, not surprising, we have only to wait and see what other effects there are from a process where conception is forced through artificial, chemical means.

        Let’s hope there are not more regrets added to the mix for those who have been sent off to fight immoral, unnecessary and largely illegal wars.

      • Mooser
        November 22, 2016, 6:09 pm

        “And since the evidence emerging is that artificially created human beings are generally infertil”

        “Artificially created”? What the hell is that supposed to mean?-
        And “artificially created human beings are generally infertile”? Got a cite for that bit of medical knowledge?

      • echinococcus
        November 23, 2016, 12:06 am

        Mooser,

        He is referring not to a study with empirical confirmation, but to an opinion based on the fact that a small percentage of the causes of parental infertility are hereditary conditions and thus will get passed on to some IVF babies. Has no relationship at all with the artificial start of pregnancy.

        Very slight risk increase overall; a finger-length study that was performed, now, is scientifically more than shaky as it measures an extremely indirectly perhaps-correlated characteristic we don’t know how to evaluate yet.

        http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/02February/Pages/IVF-babies-fertility-problems.aspx
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1252901/Infertility-time-bomb-IVF-children-higher-risk-infertility-obesity-diabetes.html

    • Maghlawatan
      November 22, 2016, 12:43 am

      Very interesting

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QEy0mxfFaM&feature=youtu.be

      1500 vets have lost the capacity to have kids

      • echinococcus
        November 22, 2016, 11:25 am

        I’m afraid I don’t get what this has got to do with the price of eggs.
        It’s good news, anyway: you never know if there’s a genetic component in the perversity or stupidity that drives enrollment as war criminals by definition.

  11. echinococcus
    November 21, 2016, 8:40 pm

    I still cannot believe it:

    Several hundred demonstrators led by several progressive Jewish groups, IfNotNow, Jewish Voice for Peace, and Jews for Economic and Racial Justice, marched outside the Grand Hyatt in protest of Bannon. Here is Jewish Voice for Peace’s report. The chant: “Nazis are not welcome here.”

    And no protesting the ZOA that is holding a gala? So, the mother organization are not Nazis –no matter the 70 years of observed practice, but Bannon is, no matter he has no record of practice so far?

    The tribals look more and more like nothing but the second line of attack of Zionism, nothing else.

    • yonah fredman
      November 22, 2016, 1:42 am

      Echo is a fan of trump, so when people put aside the issue of Palestine for one night to attack echo’s hero, echo is upset.

      • echinococcus
        November 22, 2016, 11:00 am

        Wrong again, Fredman. You still can’t read: I just hate the Democrats more than the clown.

        Putting aside “the issue of Palestine”, as you say, for a ridiculous Dim-Rep spat marks this people allying with Zionists as tribal enablers and collaborators of Zionism.

        This is a real war, Reb Fredman. A shooting war of 70+ years with a huge lot of dead, and you are the enemy. Not a particularly logical one, at that.

      • Mooser
        November 22, 2016, 12:08 pm

        “Echo is a fan of trump, so when people put aside the issue of Palestine for one night to attack echo’s hero, echo is upset.”

        “Yonah”, as one lantzmann to another, I earnestly entreat you: Kuck zich oys already!

    • Mooser
      November 22, 2016, 12:10 pm

      “And no protesting the ZOA that is holding a gala…”

      Hooray! A new age of Jewish Tribal Unity is beginning.

  12. Maghlawatan
    November 22, 2016, 12:45 am

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.611822

    Prof. Yoram Harpaz is a senior lecturer at Beit Berl Teachers College and the editor of Hed Hahinuch, a major educational journal. Recalling the recent promise of Education Minister Shay Piron that classes in the first two weeks of the coming school year will be devoted to “emotional and social aspects of the summer’s events,” including “manifestations of racism and incitement,” Harpaz observes that schools in their present format “are incapable of dealing with the racist personality and identity.” He adds: “The schools are not geared for this. They can only impart basic knowledge and skills, hold examinations on them and grade the students. In fact, they have a hard time doing even that. In classes of 40 students, with a strict curriculum and exams that have to be held, it is impossible to engage in values-based education.” Yaron, a senior lecturer in sociology at Ashkelon Academic College, emphasizes how important teachers and the principal (and the education system in general) feel it is to stick to the curriculum and the lessons schedule–two islands of quiet amid a risk-laden reality. “Doing this makes it possible for the teachers not to enter a dynamic sphere, which obligates openness and is liable to open a Pandora’s box, too,” he notes. “The greatest threat to the teacher is that there will be noise–that someone will complain, that an argument will break out, etc. That danger looms especially large in subjects that interest young people, such as sexuality, ethnicity, violence and racism. Teachers lack the tools to cope with these issues, so they are outsourced, which only emasculates educational personnel even more.” The demand for quiet in the schools is not only an instrumental matter, deriving from the difficulty of keeping order in the classroom. There is also an ideological aspect involved. In general, there is a whole series of subjects that are not recommended for discussion in schools, such as the Nakba (or “catastrophe,” the term used by Palestinians to denote the establishment of the State of Israel), human rights and the morality of Israeli army operations. This was one of the reasons for the warnings issued by Tel Aviv University and Ben-Gurion University of the Negev during the fighting in the Gaza Strip about “extreme and offensive remarks.” Harpaz: “In Israel, the most political country there is, political education has not been developed as a discipline in which high-school students are taught how to think critically about political attitudes, or the fact that those attitudes are always dependent on a particular viewpoint and on vested interests.” What, then, can be done? According to Harpaz, the solution will not be found in discussions between the homeroom teacher and the students. Nor is a condemnation, however late, by the education minister sufficient. A more radical change is needed. “Values and outlooks are acquired in a lengthy process of identification with ‘significant others,’ such as teachers,” Harpaz explains. “This means that every aspect of the schools–patterns of teaching, evaluation methods, curricula, the physical structure and the cultural climate–has to change in the direction of becoming far more dialogical and democratic.” And he has one more recommendation: not to flee from political and moral dilemmas, or from possible criticism. “Our leaders are so fearful of criticism, but they don’t understand that critical education is what generates close ties and caring. We get angry at those we love.”

  13. Ossinev
    November 22, 2016, 7:33 am

    “The yearning for the land of Zion and Jerusalem is not strong enough to drive millions of Jews to the country they love and make them hold on to its clods”

    I do like this – I assume the writer is referring to the Yahoo,Bennett ,Shaked,Lieberman and all of the the other many and varied ZioPyschos in Bibliland. Brilliant.

  14. rolf
    November 22, 2016, 11:23 am

    “DEPENDS ON THE EXISTENCE OF ANTI-SEMITISM”!?!
    Yaron London (Israeli media personality, writing in Ynet)

    does he & Sheldon Adelson & ZOA & AIPAC & J Street: & ADL & & &…not point to the depth of Israeli Zionist DEPRAVITY/immorality/abuse/spit on “Never Again” though such deception?! It reeks of Finkelstein’s “Holocaust Industry” http://goo.gl/v8J91A

    70 years of this solution has led to “incremental Genocide” (Israeli historian Ilan Pappe).

    the injustice is this:
    “We are the ONLY PEOPLE on Earth asked to GUARANTEE the SECURITY of our OCCUPIER!
    While Israel is the ONLY COUNTRY that calls for DEFENSE from its VICTIMS!”
    (Hanan Ashrawi, Palestinian legislator/activist/scholar)

    Even extremist but now enlightened David Gordis (leading American Zionist) understands
    “In every important way Israel has failed” (2016-02, Mondoweiss http://goo.gl/m10zKd)
    It has failed this badly, in terms of deception, hypocrisy: israeli Natali Cohen Vaxberg performance art speech at Holocaust Yad Vashem museum 2014-04-23! (8min) https://youtu.be/flfUvPyLVZI

    time for humanity to stop justifying inhumanity.
    time to stop politicizing people. we are all the same single human race, one big worldwide family!
    we are not borders or nationalities. we are all human.

    there can be NO rACisM! Anti-racism activist, diversity educator Jane Elliot 2016-07
    b. 1933May 27

    “HUMAN” (262min) by Yann Arthus-Bertrand 2015-07 (262min documentary on the beauty of our species & world)
    https://youtu.be/vdb4XGVTHkE

  15. rosross
    November 22, 2016, 1:02 pm

    The Zionists, who as atheists or secular, same thing, and because of that, are not really Jewish and not members of the religion, but who seek to turn Judaism into some sort of elite ‘club’ for what they believe is a more intelligent group, although how a religion can confer that is yet to be explained and if studies were done, the Christians would be out in front anyway, with the Muslims not far behind, but I digress….

    the Zionists believe that Jews are superior and anti-semitism would serve their purpose of bringing to Occupied Palestine, the roughly six million American Jews, which would necessitate removal of the nearly six million indigenous Palestinians.

    The Zionist goal is anti-semitism for only with it can they maintain their delusional position that members of Judaism are threatened and need their own country, i.e. Palestine because UN mandated Israel is full, although there are some non-Jewish citizens who could be moved on …..

    in order to be safe, ignoring the fact that it is actually someone else’s country. But, if non-Jews are inferior, the Zionist position is that Palestinians are sub-human, so removing them is no different to removing wild animals from land where you wish to settle humans.

    It is a dangerous ‘plan’ which may backfire in unexpected ways.

    • Mooser
      November 22, 2016, 1:49 pm

      ,” but who seek to turn Judaism into some sort of elite ‘club’ for what they believe is a more intelligent group”

      Yes, that group is often called “Balebatim” or “Brahmans” in Yiddish.

      • rosross
        November 22, 2016, 3:43 pm

        @ Mooser,

        With links of course to the Hindus and their Brahmins although probably the origin was India.

        I wonder if, on both counts the origin was a metaphor for someone spiritually evolved rather than superior as a human being in general.

      • Mooser
        November 22, 2016, 4:53 pm

        “I wonder if, on both counts the origin was a metaphor for someone spiritually evolved”

        Yes, not just superior, but spiritually evolved, by any objective measure. They got all the seven kishkas.

      • Maghlawatan
        November 22, 2016, 5:24 pm

        The idea that the Jews are an elite group falls apart with the Orthodox. I never met a Shatnez Inspector with the smarts.

      • Mooser
        November 22, 2016, 6:42 pm

        .” I never met a Shatnez Inspector with the smarts.”

        Did you ever meet a Shatnez inspector who was poor?

  16. pabelmont
    November 22, 2016, 5:23 pm

    Bannon and ZOA means something? Right? YES! But what? Bannon is only one guy, not all of “the Trumpies”.

    EITHER it means that he is not trained to fear BIG-ZION, has no idea that ZOA (and presumably other elements of BIG-ZION) need be feared, lacks the training that the establishment DEMs all had — who so slavishly bowed and kowtow-ed to BIG-ZION — OR it is a deliberate slight. Fun to think it the latter. Giving BIG-ZION the bird.

    If he “gets away with it”, it would appear to mark a diminution of BIG-ZION’s power (at least against the Trumpies). OTOH, if other Trumpies begin to fall “in line” with BIG-ZION, well, that’ll be another story. If they don’t, it will appear that something is broken.

    We’ll watch and see.

  17. manfromatlan
    November 22, 2016, 9:09 pm

    “If Trump’s people are more disgusted by Arabs than they are by Jews, we have struck quite a good deal. ”

    Be careful what you wish for.

  18. Maghlawatan
    November 22, 2016, 10:32 pm

    Since the last mainifestation of the Nazi virus the bots have been on some roll

    The 1947 UN GA vote was not going to get the 2/3rd majority required so the Zionists asked for a delay. And set about armtwisting and threatening. France was threatened with economic consequences. the Firestone corp took care of Liberia. Robert Nathan, a prominent Zionist , said “we used all tools at hand” Delegates of Latin American nations had mink coats sent to their wives. Haiti was promised international aid. The Philippines was threatened. The vote was a joke. The UN had no power to dispossess the Palestinians. Zionism has always been the same- Jewish money buys influence. The Achilles heel of Zionism is very little general public support for Jewish nihilism. And that is what is going to kill Israel

    It is all about the longue duree, habibi
    All the shisha wallahs know that

  19. Kay24
    November 23, 2016, 6:09 am

    Dirty Dersh is obviously working hard (is he paid?) on behalf of the occupiers. Yesterday, he was on CNN and harshly criticized Obama for not condemning those who protest the pipe line, because they had aligned themselves with the Palestinians. It was totally out of context, because they were talking about Trump not criticizing white supremacists in the US. Don Lemon, did not utter a word and allowed the zionist mouthpiece to get away with it. Dirty Dersh looks an angry man, and tries desperately to tie everything to what is going on here to the “plight” of a brutal occupier, and land thief. He never, ever, mentions the world occupation.
    I am sick of these zionist mouthpieces always connecting US policies with Israel, and speaking as if Israel is the 51st state.

    • talknic
      November 23, 2016, 10:32 am

      @ Kay24 November 23, 2016, 6:09 am

      “Dirty Dersh is obviously working hard (is he paid?)”

      The Zionist Federation have had over a century of honing their dirt gathering skills against the likes of Dershowitz

  20. Ossinev
    November 23, 2016, 7:43 am

    @Amigo
    Thanks for the ElecIntifada link. It echoes my own views as a UK national. The Israeli Firsters (OMG A/S remark ) here in the UK panicked at the the thought of a main opposition party leader who is overtly Pro – Palestinian standing up and condemning poor vulnerable eternally terrorised Israel and reached for the usual boring old weapon = Anti – Semitism. However instead of confronting them head on wimpy Jeremy decided on an internal LP enquiry which had the effect of giving the allegations a form of legitimacy albeit temporary. Still all is not lost as any sane person and most specifically the younger more politically aware generation will have looked at the findings of the subsequent Parliamentary committee and the absurd definitions of what constitutes “Anti – Semitism and recognise what is a transparent Zionist connections in high places fix (OMG A/S remark no 2 – there may be a knock on the door at any time)

    On a more general note IMHO people here in the UK are becoming bored shitless with the tedious wheeling out of the A/S trope whenever good old most moral light unto Israel is criticised. As a fallback joker in the pack it is crumbling into dust. The Israeli Firsters I believe are rapidly approaching a state of panic on how to market the patently unmarketable especially with the impact of BDS. and they are rapidly disappearing up their own rear.

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