Trump may want a deal, but Israeli Jews are not interested

Israel/Palestine
on 81 Comments

Israeli Jews have two big concerns about Donald Trump’s visit here today and tomorrow. First that he will shut down traffic in the city. Second, that he will push for a peace deal and the creation of a Palestinian state. They’re not interested.

“We are afraid more than we hope,” said Elhanan, 71, a retired teacher. “If Trump pushes, after the blah blah blah and the etcetera and the hot air, everyone will find that the Israeli maximum is much lower than the Palestinian minimum. Nothing good will come of it. This is a 100 years war.”

Flags of two nations greet Donald Trump on Israel’s Highway 1

These ideas were echoed again and again in interviews I had with 20 Jewish Israelis in Jerusalem. Israeli Jews fear the Palestinians far more than they trust them, and though they want little to do with them, the answer is not a Palestinian state.

“I don’t know if their own state is the solution,” Oded, a 32-year-old lawyer, told me on King George Street in Jewish West Jerusalem. “I don’t know what they [the Palestinians] are fighting for. They have a good life with us. They don’t want to vote…. I know there are problems with water, and facilities. But I think if they try to open themselves…. they can manage to live with us.”

Donald Trump will surely envy Benjamin Netanyahu. He has achieved what Trump has not: he has unified Israeli Jews of right and left in a fearful nationalism on an ethnic basis. He has helped create a broad Jewish center to which there is no real opposition.

King David Hotel, with flags of two nations, is emptied and locked down Sunday, in anticipation of Trump’s retinue.

Several of the Jews I talked to were leftists, but they are so demoralized by a long conflict that they go along with the Netanyahu agenda, of security first, for the Jewish state.

“I am on the left. I think we are wrong. I don’t think we are right,” said Dahlia, 71. “But I don’t want Arabs in my state. They are too different from us. I am afraid of them. I think they’re violent. I don’t think it’s their nature, but their culture. I don’t think they’re a nation. They came from I don’t know where.”

She said she hates religious Jews. “Hate. Really hate. I think they are stupid.” But Dahlia still desires a Jewish state. “I don’t want a two people state. I want one state for the Jews. Because of the culture. I love Israel. I love the language. They are people like myself. The Arabs, I don’t like their culture.”

I asked her how many Arabs she knew and she said one. Then she conceded that that one was not violent.

These Jewish Israelis both echo and reinforce Netanyahu’s achievement: between a Jewish state and a democratic state, they have already chosen. They want a Jewish state. Liberal Zionists in the United States like to say that the situation is still in play, that Israel is a Jewish democracy. But talk with these Jewish Israelis and they are clear about the purpose of Zionism: a Jewish state is more important than rights for Palestinians.

“The west doesn’t understand the east. We understand them,” says an Egyptian-born art gallery owner of 70 near the King David Hotel. “I don’t think Trump can do anything. There is no partner. We live with Arabs, that’s how we know what they are thinking. They work with Israel, but their heart is dirty: they hate, they want all the land.”

This man was a militant rightwing voter. But how different are the ideas of a young leftleaning couple on King George Street? When I suggest that Palestinians should all have the right to vote, Lala, who has a nose ring, shakes her head and says that would undermine the Jewish character of the state. While her companion, Guy, who has long hair and wears shorts, says that there are many people under American sovereignty who cannot vote, from illegal immigrants to people living in territories.

And Elhanan, the retired schoolteacher, says that while he used to vote left, he has an “internal schism” now because the left is unrealistic. The only way there will be a Palestinian state is if the Israeli army is on all the hilltops there. “Rather than a Palestinian state, it is much easier for most of us to believe there will be coexistence, commercial peace,” he says.

As so many Jewish Israelis do, Elhanan mentions the Palestinians who are proud to have participated in attacks on Israelis.

“We are afraid…. We have a long memory. Maybe some of it is somehow exaggerated. The Holocaust is quite fresh with everyone. It’s always present in our mentality. It’s really present,” he says.

While Nehama, 59, a former bookstore owner, says it more bluntly: “I don’t think they can have any state because they… say Jewish people have no right to Israel. They are like the Nazis.”

Netanyahu speaks at celebration of Jerusalem unification. near Jaffa Gate, May 21, 2017, photo by Phil Weiss.

These Jews speak almost with one mind, about Jewish fears that underline the necessity for a Jewish state. It would be easy to say that they are indoctrinated, except that the springs of these ideas are so deep. Netanyahu echoes these feelings brilliantly, and never dares to try to lead his people anywhere.

At a music-and-light-show celebration of the 50th anniversary of the unification of Jerusalem last night, Netanyahu spoke, as tens of thousands of nearly 100,000 Israeli Jews were jammed into the streets near the Old City. Outwardly they were extremely diverse. Most men did not wear yarmulkes, there were many young seculars.

They sang along to anthems about a Jewish Jerusalem. They cheered the giant “50” in fireworks that appeared in the sky, and the Jewish star too. They regarded the Six Day War as a wonderful achievement. There was no expression of doubt or misgiving: no awareness that half the population that surrounds them is so left out by Zionism.

“50” appears in lights over Jerusalem, celebrating unification of city 50 years ago, May 21, 2017, photo by Phil Weiss

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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81 Responses

  1. talknic
    May 22, 2017, 5:48 am

    If you feed ’em sh*te they’ll spout sh*te

  2. eljay
    May 22, 2017, 8:26 am

    Trump may want a deal, but Israeli Jews are not interested

    Unless they are one and the same, I thought it was Israeli (Jewish) Zionists – not “Israeli Jews” – who believe that “a Jewish state is more important than rights for Palestinians”.

    • echinococcus
      May 22, 2017, 5:17 pm

      Eljay,

      What’s the proportion of non-Zionist, officially Jewish inhabitants of what you call Israel? Even though I agree in principle, we’re talking totally negligible numbers; does it justify making a stink about it?

      • eljay
        May 22, 2017, 8:17 pm

        || echinococcus: Eljay,

        What’s the proportion of non-Zionist, officially Jewish inhabitants of what you call Israel? … we’re talking totally negligible numbers … ||

        I wouldn’t know, but apparently you do.

        || … does it justify making a stink about it? ||

        I didn’t make a stink about it, so I wouldn’t know.

      • echinococcus
        May 23, 2017, 11:42 am

        Eljay,

        So you’re talking without having even once looked at any election or polling numbers. Non-Zionist Meistervolk inhabitants are less than 10% certainly. Close to “one and the same”. Look it up.

      • eljay
        May 23, 2017, 12:41 pm

        || echinococcus: Eljay, So you’re talking without having even once looked at any election or polling numbers. … ||

        And you’re “agreeing in principle” with me. Go figure.

        || echinococcus: … Non-Zionist Meistervolk inhabitants are less than 10% certainly. Close to “one and the same”. … ||

        So…in principle non-Zionist Jews shouldn’t be lumped in with Zionist Jews, but in practise they’re all just Zionists. Huh. Well, if nothing else that’ll facilitate the determination of which Jews should be driven out of geographic Palestine.

      • echinococcus
        May 23, 2017, 3:55 pm

        You’re not too good at feigning lack of understanding and incapacity to communicate, and yet it seems to be your main device.

        I agreed in principle that Zionists and non-Zionists should be separated even when talking about the invader Meistervolk in Palestine. I did not agree that the distinction has any significance, considering that it ends up being the same thing for all practical purposes. You didn’t offer any fact or argument to refute that.

        Any non-Zionist Meistervolk better grab their other passport(s) and get out PDQ –if they don’t figure on deserting and sabotaging, that is.

      • eljay
        May 23, 2017, 6:15 pm

        || echinococcus: You’re not too good at feigning lack of understanding and incapacity to communicate, and yet it seems to be your main device. … ||

        Not feigning anything, just going by what you said.

        || … I agreed in principle that Zionists and non-Zionists should be separated even when talking about the invader Meistervolk in Palestine. I did not agree that the distinction has any significance, considering that it ends up being the same thing for all practical purposes. … ||

        Right, so you’re agreeing with my understanding of what you said earlier: In principle non-Zionist Jews shouldn’t be lumped in with Zionist Jews, but in practise they’re all just Zionists. Which makes it easy to know which Jews to drive out of geographic Palestine.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        May 23, 2017, 7:21 pm

        But there is a problem with the Jews and descendants of those who came soon after 1948..

        These people – specially the 2nd generation, do not have any another language or a passport to use. As I was told by many of those who came from the area of the Middle East after things got “heated up” around 1948, they had to leave everything they had (money, language, identity*) by the border to try to fit in the “Ashkenaz idea” of the Jewish State. Arabic as their strongest language, was not that highly appreciated.. And their culture being much closer to their Arabic neighbours than their new Ashkenzi fellows caused more discrimination, than some happy harmony between the new Jewish citizens of the state.

        Anyway, I think the problem of Israel today is that these “two passport-birthright-Zionists” do not need to try to build any peace, since they know that, if things get too bad, they’ll always have a possiblity to easily fly somewhere else, where as those, to whom it is their only “home country” now, to negotiate about peace, might me much more important.

        When I was in Israel none of my friends had too passports and I really did not know how big part the U.S. Government/Zionists play in this awful game..

        *Most of them never taught their mother tongue to their childern or tell officially their nice childhood memories from their first home country, cause it did not fit the official story of Israel. But f.ex. when asked, many of the Iraki Jews I met, had quite good childhood memories of a quite wealthy life in Irak, untill the State of Israel was established and things got worse for them..

      • echinococcus
        May 23, 2017, 11:45 pm

        Kaisa,

        These people – specially the 2nd generation, do not have any another language or a passport to use

        Then you probably were sold a lie, or then your informants had no idea of their citizenship rights. Even the countries most victimized by the Zionists and inflexible in the matter of recognizing/acknowledging the Zionist entity do keep a right to citizenship for direct or 2nd-removed descendants of their citizens.

        Now, I am not a specialist and don’t know the exact situation, country by country. There must be someone around here knowledgeable about the exact status of citizenship rights in most countries. I had vaguely heard something like one of the Middle Eastern countries strupping the emigrants of their citizenship, but those things are never permanent.

        Also count the other parent’s citizenship: I imagine that a large number of people are from mixed origin, citizenship-wise.

        Finally, we shouldn’t forget that the US has already guaranteed to take up all Zionist entity citizens in case of a need. As if it could ever refuse. In this case, it is a good thing (not for us in the US, but certainly for the Palestinians.)

      • echinococcus
        May 23, 2017, 11:54 pm

        Eljay,

        You don’t get it, I see. Zionist or not makes no difference about the invader status. Any persons, either religious Jewish or supposedly of Jewish ancestry, who are direct descendants of Palestinian Jews as of the time of the statement of hostile Zionist intent, of course are Palestinian.

        What the rest of the Meistervolk are doing there and their immigration status, undecided yet by the Palestinian people, does not depend on personal convictions. Perhaps there would be a request for a formal Palestinian citizenship request, as in Algeria, or perhaps there would be exceptions for those who helped the resistance, etc. Who knows?

      • YoniFalic
        May 24, 2017, 9:58 am

        I have read estimates that > 70% of the white racist European fake “Jewish” settler colonist invader population (including 2nd & 3rd generation like me) either have foreign citizenship/passports (like me) or are eligible for them. (I had US citizenship, and I am eligible for Ukrainian and Russian citizenship if I understand the laws correctly. My grandfather also had Austrian-Hungarian citizenship, and my family might count as Träger deutscher Kultur under German immigration law. Thus I might also be eligible for Austrian, Hungarian, and German citizenship. My situation is not common, but I doubt that I am a statistical outlier.

        I admit my family circle and friends tended to be unusually multilingual, but when I was Israeli, I did not know anyone, who knew no English whatsoever. Many had a third language like Russian, French, or Spanish.

        It’s not the 19th century any more. The white racist genocidal Israeli settler colonist invader population could be relocated in about 2 years with only minor inconvenience.

        Contrast such minor inconvenience with the agonies that Palestinians and neighboring Arab populations have suffered since the white racist genocidal European invaders put their longstanding plans for genocide into operation in 1947.

        I need to emphasize that there is no reason whatsoever to shed any tears for the minor irritations that white racist genocidal European Israeli settler colonist invaders may suffer upon removal from the ME when their victims have suffered so many agonies because of Zionism.

      • YoniFalic
        May 24, 2017, 10:48 am

        Because I am pedantic, I must make a correction.

        Germans use Herrenvolk and not Meistervolk.

        Both Meister and Master come from Latin Magister, but German is more true to the original Latin range of meanings.

        I think one would use gens dominorum and not gens magistrorum to translate master race into Latin.

        Gens magistrorum and Meistervolk seem to me to mean “teacher race”.

        If someone (maybe German Lefty) here is a native speaker of German, feel free to correct me. My competence in German is passive (reading), and sometimes I am incorrect in idiomatic usage.

      • eljay
        May 24, 2017, 11:54 am

        || echinococcus: Eljay, You don’t get it, I see. Zionist or not makes no difference … ||

        Zionist or not does make a difference because that’s what my initial comment – the one with which you agreed “in principle” – was about.

        But I see that you’ve decided to “pull a Mayhem” and change the point of the discussion, so I’ll leave you to dance with yourself.

      • Annie Robbins
        May 24, 2017, 12:53 pm

        echi is holding court again, just ignore him. and wasn’t he just lecturing Maghlawatan to “use English” the other day?

      • echinococcus
        May 24, 2017, 12:42 pm

        Thanks, Falic.
        Herrenvolk is absolutely correct. “Meistervolk” is meaningless and with no recognized usage. Wonder how it got stuck in some dark corner of my skull. Apologies to all who were puzzled by it.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        May 24, 2017, 12:55 pm

        Echi/Yoni F.

        Thanks for your information!

        Most of the people I lived with had Middle East background and their parents did not teach them Arabic. I know, because as an outsider (who did not know anything in the beginning), I just couldn’t understand howcome they did not teach their language or tell their childhood memories to their children. As I said, Arabic was not a language highly appreciated in Israel.

        Anyway, I don’t know about their rights for getting citizenships to their parents first homecountry (the 1st generation are so old, they are soon gone anyway).

        The way I experienced it, it is a complicated matter..

        But I am not defending the occupation or the discrimination towards the Palestinians in any way. I just don’t see any simple solution for it.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        May 24, 2017, 1:09 pm

        P.s. What I learned quite soon was that, the fact that I was interested in and had studied some Arabic was not a thing to mention to everyone, not even to those with the Middle East background. It immidiately raised some suspicions towards me..

      • Kaisa of Finland
        May 24, 2017, 2:54 pm

        p.p.s.

        To be precise: The Israelis around me were mostly with Middle East and North-African background (Irak, Yemen, Tunis, Morocco and some Spanish too), I did not really learn to know any “white Jews”* at all. I don’t know why. And I can only speak for those I knew.

        (*I don’t know what would be the appropriate word to use, but hope the point is taken..)

      • echinococcus
        May 24, 2017, 5:09 pm

        No, Eljay. Any opposition to Zionism by a Master-race inhabitant remains totally irrelevant to his or her immigration status. It is thus of no practical importance –although it is always a nice gesture to differentiate Zionists (>90%) from the insignificant non-Zios when speaking. It’s just a gesture with no practical consequences.

      • eljay
        May 24, 2017, 8:54 pm

        || echinococcus: No, Eljay. Any opposition to Zionism by a Master-race inhabitant remains totally irrelevant to his or her immigration status. … ||

        In Israel, there are Jewish Israelis and non-Jewish Israelis. Most of the Jewish Israelis are Zionist; some are not. Those who are not should not be lumped in with those who are.

        I don’t know what a “Master-race inhabitant” is. Keep dancing.

      • echinococcus
        May 25, 2017, 12:57 am

        Eljay,

        So you still do not explain what is different in the immigration status of the invaders (i.e. those of officially “Jewish” nationality illegally imported after the start of the Zionist invasion.) What difference does it make in that respect if they are Zionist or not? The anti-Zionist can wake up earlier to the burnt coffee and get the hell out, that’s the only possible difference.

        [Also, if I were a Palestinian, I’d very strongly object to being called “Israeli” by supposedly friendly persons. It can’t be helped in the relations with the occupier as long as one is not stronger, but being reminded insistently of one’s Helot status by being continuously called “Israeli”, (and, to make it worse, “non-Jewish Israeli” as if it were some religious question), would be a bit too much, don’t you think?]

      • eljay
        May 25, 2017, 11:15 am

        || echinococcus: Eljay, So you still do not explain … ||

        My original point – the one you agreed with “in principle” – did not require me to explain whatever it is you want explained. Keep dancing, little man.

        || … Also, if I were a Palestinian, I’d very strongly object to being called “Israeli” … ||

        If I were a Palestinian citizen of or refugee from Israel, I would expect to be called Israeli and to have the same rights and freedoms as all other Israelis in a secular and democratic Israel.

        Even if that wouldn’t be as much fun as driving Jews out of geographic Palestine and setting up an Islamic State in it (thanks, Hamas).

      • echinococcus
        May 25, 2017, 4:17 pm

        Even if that wouldn’t be as much fun as driving Jews out of geographic Palestine and setting up an Islamic State in it

        Even if it is hard to imagine, it seems possible that you are not pretending.
        So I’ll just specify, for others who may happen to read this, that it obviously has nothing to do with “Jews” but with a political colonialist movement called Zionism, nothing to do with Islam, but all Palestinians, atheist, Moslem, Christian or Wiccan, including bona fide Jewish Palestinians. Who are the only ones authorized to decide the fate of the invaders –as opposed to some American libruls, whose primary objective seems to be to keep a foothold for the invaders.

      • eljay
        May 25, 2017, 5:27 pm

        || echinococcus: Even if it is hard to imagine, it seems possible that you are not pretending. … ||

        Even if it is hard to imagine, it seems possible that you are not dancing a lively jig.

        Nah, it’s not possible: You’re dancing up a storm! :-)

    • hidflect
      May 23, 2017, 2:22 am

      This is the 3-legged stool game Israel plays. Before you can even get started on debating the issue they conflate the terms to stymie the issue. Israeli doesn’t mean Zionist, Zionist doesn’t mean Jewish, Jewish doesn’t mean Israeli. etc. etc. Rinse and repeat. Steal another parcel of land.

      Next!

      • CigarGod
        May 23, 2017, 9:44 am

        The Israel government is a one legged stool. The citizens are Israel…another one legged stool.
        Focus to win.

  3. Paranam Kid
    May 22, 2017, 8:50 am

    This article confirms that israel has morphed into a totalitarian-zio/fascist-antisemitic-landgrabbing-blackmailing-genocidal-apartheid(proven)-ethnotheocracy that is the only true travesty of democracy in the ME.
    It is a long moniker, but is describes the country comprehensively.

  4. diasp0ra
    May 22, 2017, 9:26 am

    “the Israeli maximum is much lower than the Palestinian minimum.”

    I’ll say, and not because what Palestinians are asking for is unrealistic or too much, as they have already compromised on the vast majority of what they view as their homeland. It is because Israel is an expansionist colonial state based on an ideology of ethnic nationalism.

    The normalization of racism towards Palestinians in Israeli society is not new, not is it surprising. Their projection of what Palestinians would do were they to become their equals sounds eerily similar to what they did to the Palestinians not 70 years ago.

  5. Kaisa of Finland
    May 22, 2017, 10:02 am

    As I wrote in an earlier comment of mine:

    “The propaganda is there just to keep the “Zionist elite” in power, beacuse, if the “average people” found out that there are just “average people” living in both sides of the borders, that “elite” would loose their power and everything they have built their lives on..”

    What I experienced in Israel was that people had been raised to fear the Palestinans all their lives, since they were children. Even those decent, moderate, well-educated people honestly believed, that if the occupation ended and Palestinians got their own state, they would immediately come and kill all the Jews. Being afraid of the Palestinians seemed to be the one and only thing that unifies most of the Israelis together and since they otherwise are such a widely heterogenic group of people, they might have a problem to keep the state together for themselves, if not having that common enemy.

    So the propaganda serves those in power and then again, if you are born and raised with propaganda, how would you know about something else..

  6. yonah fredman
    May 22, 2017, 10:02 am

    One does not look for leftists in jerusalem on King George street. Yes, the israeli Jewish left is demoralized, but one searches for it elsewhere.

    • echinococcus
      May 22, 2017, 11:08 am

      Fredman:

      Oh? Left by whom?
      Or do you mean “to the Left of”… lemme see, Attila? Cecil Rhodes? The French Socialist butchers of Algeria?

      But I guess you are right. The place to look for Israeli Left is among deserters in jail or, preferably, ex-Israeli and in exile.

    • Mooser
      May 22, 2017, 11:50 am

      “Yes, the israeli Jewish left is demoralized, but one searches for it elsewhere.”

      “Yonah”, your search is over! The ‘amoralized’ “israeli Jewish left” is right here in the person of “Jon s”.

    • Ismail
      May 22, 2017, 10:36 pm

      I believe yonah’s right. You don’t look for Israeli leftists in Jerusalem. You look for them right over there, next to the married bachelors and the unicorns.

  7. Mayhem
    May 22, 2017, 10:19 am

    There are no other countries in the Middle East that can claim any semblance of democracy. When Israel struggles to find a way to create a blend of democracy and being a Jewish state the naysayers come out with their hypocritical utterances. Israel continues to prosper despite all the shit that is thrown at it.

    • John O
      May 22, 2017, 11:01 am

      @Mayhem (who shares a moniker with the UK’s strong and stable PM these days)

      “Israel struggles to find a way to create a blend of democracy and being a Jewish state”

      Democracy in essence means everyone has a share in creating their government, and everyone is equal under the law. Therefore, it is impossible to favour one religious/ethnic group over another within a state and have a democracy. Still, you have at least now admitted that trying to do so is, to say the least, a bit of a struggle.

    • diasp0ra
      May 22, 2017, 11:38 am

      @Mayhem

      Democracy isn’t some magic spell that makes a society just or good.

      Jim Crow USA was also considered a Democracy.

    • Mooser
      May 22, 2017, 11:59 am

      .” Israel continues to prosper despite all the shit that is thrown at it. “

      And your comments on Mondo are irrefutable proof of that! Everything you say, “Mayhem”, simply reeks of personal, financial and political success and prosperity.

    • eljay
      May 22, 2017, 12:49 pm

      || Mayhem: There are no other countries in the Middle East that can claim any semblance of democracy. … ||

      Not true. According to Wiki’s summary of the findings of the 2010 – 2015 Freedom in the World report on the countries of the Middle East and North Africa, there are a few countries that can claim a semblance of democracy.

      I’m curious to know if there are any countries in the Middle East beside Israel which can claim a semblance of colonialism.

      || … When Israel struggles to find a way to create a blend of democracy and being a Jewish state the naysayers come out with their hypocritical utterances. … ||

      Yup, and when the rapist struggles to find a way to create a blend of cohabitation and being a rapist the naysayers come out with their hypocritical utterances. Weird.

      || … Israel continues to prosper despite all the shit that is thrown at it. ||

      So does Iran. Do you also look to Iran for inspiration on what a state should be? I don’t.

      • Mayhem
        May 22, 2017, 6:44 pm

        @eljay, making things up to suit his agenda.
        Economic woes dominate Iran’s presidential race – note the source.
        And then he quotes a reference to supposedly suggest that there are other countries that resemble the level of democracy that exists in Israel when in fact it just proves my point. Moreover his reference stresses the level of freedom in Israeli society that is only matched by Tunisia.
        @eljay, uses the fact that the flavor of the democracy that Israel strives for doesn’t match his anti-Israel bias and uses the concept of Western democracy as a measuring stick when it is not directly applicable to the Middle East.

      • RoHa
        May 22, 2017, 7:26 pm

        Perhaps the Syrian presidential election doesn’t bear a semblance of democracy, but the Iranian presidential election and the Iranian municipal elections (415 women among the newly elected councillors) certainly do. The Turkish elections used to, and the Lebanese elections might, if anyone could understand them.

        Now I’m sure you want to say that none of them are as democratic as Israel, but, even if that is so, you are simply shifting your goal posts.

        (And falling back on the “best of a bad bunch” justification, too. Eljay won’t accept that.)

        Nor, as others have pointed out, is democracy a guarantee of virtuous conduct.

      • eljay
        May 22, 2017, 8:04 pm

        || Mayhem: @eljay, making things up to suit his agenda. … ||

        Not at all.

        || … Economic woes dominate Iran’s presidential race … ||

        Yeah, it’s tough thriving when you’ve got the world’s superpower and its allies throwing more shit at you than coddled and babied Israel could ever possibly handle. And yet in spite of it Iran thrives. I sense your unspoken admiration.

        || … And then he quotes a reference to supposedly suggest that there are other countries that resemble the level of democracy that exists in Israel when in fact it just proves my point. … ||

        That is a truly lame attempt at deflection. Your original point was: “There are no other countries in the Middle East that can claim any semblance of democracy … “. The information I linked to very clearly disproves your original point.

        || … @eljay, uses the fact that the flavor of the democracy that Israel strives for doesn’t match his anti-Israel bias … ||

        Israel’s flavour of democracy is religion-based supremacism for one group of people and second-class status for the rest. Unlike you Zionist hypocrites, I don’t like that flavour of democracy anywhere – not in Israel, not in Islamic State.

        || … and uses the concept of Western democracy as a measuring stick when it is not directly applicable to the Middle East. ||

        Funny, it’s you Zionists who never tire of claiming that Israel is a “Western-style democracy”. But if the point you really want to make is that Israeli democracy isn’t as bad as the democracy of Middle Eastern states you despise, you go right ahead and make that winning comparison.

        Well, that was fun. Tell me, champ, do you enjoy being such a colossal failure? :-)

      • echinococcus
        May 23, 2017, 12:11 am

        Mayhem, the well-named, seems to be as typical a Zionist as you can produce.

        “Democracy”? Well, affirming that the Zionist entity has “democracy” only makes it worse by a multiple.

        The people in Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy had an excuse: they couldn’t vote as in a so-called democracy and could always invoke duress. Some of them even managed to sound thoroughly believable in their plea not to confuse the German/Italian people and their criminal-against-humanity governments.

        The Meistervolk invaders have a large measure of democracy among themselves, that of illegal invaders that excludes entirely all the conquered people under their boot to whom they are Sparta rather than democracy.

        So the Meistervolk population in Palestine have absolutely no excuse, as opposed to the populations of Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, etc. The Meistervolk occupiers are collectively fully guilty of every single crime against humanity committed by their “Jewish State” government. The vote proves without any discussion that they are criminals against humanity and war criminals themselves, to the tune of some 92% or even higher. Each single one of them. Some of them, the few that vote but managed to avoid military service and direct participation in any high crimes, might perhaps be characterized as accessories only –not much of a consolation. In the US, accessories usually count as just as guilty as the principals.

        So this is what the “Israel” abomination’s democracy means.

    • Atlantaiconoclast
      May 22, 2017, 8:45 pm

      There can be no democracy where millions are denied the right to full and equal citizenship, unless Israel is willing to commit to a fair divorce, in which Palestinians are well compensated for things they voluntarily relinquish in exchange.

    • CigarGod
      May 23, 2017, 9:55 am

      I do love it when Mayhem The Careless Loud Mouth tries to recharacterize. First it was “…semblance of democracy.” Then he changes it to “…level of democracy…”…and thinks we don’t notice…as he commits credibility suicide.

      • Mooser
        May 23, 2017, 11:22 am

        “…as he commits credibility suicide.”

        I’m still not entirely convinced “Mayhem” isn’t a ‘performance’ a persona assumed by a very bitter ex-zionist.

      • CigarGod
        May 23, 2017, 8:32 pm

        I have suspected the same, Mooser.
        There are also several personalities/levels of education/intelligence that take turns writing for one or two others here.

      • Mooser
        May 24, 2017, 12:04 am

        “There are also several personalities/levels of education/intelligence that take turns writing for one or two others here -.”

        That’s quite possible, of course, or it could be the same individual in different phases of a Ziocaine Syndrome episode.

    • Misterioso
      May 23, 2017, 7:06 pm

      @Mayhem

      “Former Foreign Ministry director-general invokes South Africa comparisons. ‘Joint Israel-West Bank’ reality is an apartheid state”
      EXCERPT: “Similarities between the ‘original apartheid’ as it was practiced in South Africa and the situation in ISRAEL [my emphasis] and the West Bank today ‘scream to the heavens,’ added [Alon] Liel, who was Israel’s ambassador in Pretoria from 1992 to 1994. There can be little doubt that the suffering of Palestinians is not less intense than that of blacks during apartheid-era South Africa, he asserted.” (Times of Israel, February 21, 2013)

      “…EU broadside over plight of Israel’s Arabs”
      EXCERPT: “The confidential 27-page draft prepared by European diplomats… [shows] that Israeli Arabs suffer ‘economic disparities… unequal access to land and housing… discriminatory draft legislation and a political climate in which discriminatory rhetoric and practice go unsanctioned.’” (The Independent, Dec. 27/2011)

      The U.S. State Department’s report on International Religious Freedom: “Arabs in Israel…are subject to various forms of discrimination [and the government] does not provide Israeli Arabs…with the same quality of education, housing, employment opportunities as Jews.”
      In its 2015 Country Report on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, the U.S. Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor acknowledges the “institutional and societal discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel.” (U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor)

      Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2015 Israel and The Occupied Territories
      “Construction, Not Destruction”
      “While Israeli Arabs constitute 20 percent of the population, Arab communities’ jurisdictions occupy just 2.5 percent of the state’s land area, and the process of approving new construction in Arab towns takes decades.” (Haaretz Editorial, April 4, 2017)

      https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/265712.pdf A U.S. government human rights report released this month [March 2017] highlights grave violations against Palestinian children living under Israeli military occupation. The annual country reports on human rights practices, which include a specific section covering the situation of human rights in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT), raises a number of issues related to ill-treatment of Palestinian child prisoners and denial of fair trial rights in Israeli military courts. It notes other grave violations against Palestinian children, including unlawful killing and excessive use of force against Palestinian children by Israeli forces.

      To the best of my knowledge, Israel is the only country in the world that differentiates between citizenship and nationality, i.e., “Israeli” nationality does not exist, only Jews and non-Jews, and each citizen carries an appropriate identity card. While the implications of this absurdity for discrimination and racism against non-Jews are obvious, it has been upheld by Israel’s Supreme Court.


      Israeli TV Host Implores Israelis: Wake Up and Smell the Apartheid

      One example of apartheid within Israel:
      “Jewish town won’t let Arab build home on his own land ”
      Excerpt: “Aadel Suad first came to the planning and construction committee of the Misgav Local Council in 1997. Suad, an educator, was seeking a construction permit to build a home on a plot of land he owns in the community of Mitzpeh Kamon. The reply he got, from a senior official on the committee, was a memorable one. ‘Don’t waste your time,’ he reportedly told Suad. ‘We’ll keep you waiting for 30 years.’” (Haaretz, 14 December 2009)

      The effect of Israel’s blatantly racist “Citizenship Law” and more than fifty other restrictions (http://adalah.org/eng/Israeli-Discriminatory-Law-DatabaseIsrael's) Arab citizens have to endure is well expressed by writer and Knesset member, Ahmed Tibi, “…dutifully defining the state [of Israel] as ‘Jewish and democratic,’ ignores the fact that in practice ‘democratic’ refers to Jews, and the Arabs are nothing more than citizens without citizenship.” (Ma’ariv, 1.6.2005)

      Eminent Jewish Israeli journalist Bradley Burston aptly sums up the horrors Israel inflicts on Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem:
      “Occupation is Slavery”
      EXCERPT:
      “In the name of occupation, generation after generation of Palestinians have been treated as property. They can be moved at will, shackled at will, tortured at will, have their families separated at will. They can be denied the right to vote, to own property, to meet or speak to family and friends. They can be hounded or even shot dead by their masters, who claim their position by biblical right, and also use them to build and work on the plantations the toilers cannot themselves ever hope to own. The masters dehumanize them, call them by the names of beasts.” (Haaretz, Feb. 26/13)

  8. echinococcus
    May 22, 2017, 10:42 am

    Trump may want a deal, but Israeli Jews are not interested

    You don’t say. What is he, Trump, to threaten them, Zionist b@$trds, with?

    After all, he only is the President, trussed and castrated and ready for impeachment, thanks mainly to the Hillary-and-Burnie-Democrat-led, CIA-allied color “revolution” enthusiastically manned by the Democrat liberals and even many non-Democrat liberals.

    Even if there were any value in any US election (see above), to suppose he would say boo to get a so-called concession is naive beyond words: after all, he is only the in-married father-in-law of a Zionist Mafia Royal Family, officially and personally supervised by the current reigning Capo.

  9. Citizen
    May 22, 2017, 10:43 am

    Reading the Israeli Jewish Street responses to Phil’s questions reminds me of Obama’s conclusion about those Hillary labeled “the Deplorables,” clutching their “guns, flag, & the bible.” In the US mid-1960s such ignorant, uneducated, hypocritical responses regarding the Civil Rights movement’s agenda were sure fire ways to be condemned as a white racist moronic bigot. We all know American Jews are very proud of their early and firm support of said movement (along with 1965 Immigration Act with its anchor babies and chain migration). The circle has come around so now the Black Lives Matter folks and the Palestinian solidarity folks have joined hands against Israel’s forms of Jim Crow and its Nazi-aping lebensraum policy.

  10. John O
    May 22, 2017, 11:55 am

    Where to start? Perhaps someone should tell Dahlia that she is not on the left.

  11. hophmi
    May 22, 2017, 1:18 pm

    And then, Phil Weiss was humbled as he realized that not being Israeli, and being from a country that just put Donald Trump in office, even though it faced no comparable threat, he had no right to judge the people who actually lived there.

    He also admitted that Palestinians in East Jerusalem certainly do have the right to be citizens of Israel and to vote, but that they refuse to exercise those rights, and then cynically complain about inequality in the city.

    • Annie Robbins
      May 22, 2017, 2:10 pm

      Palestinians in East Jerusalem certainly do have the right to be citizens of Israel and to vote, but that they refuse to exercise those rights

      i read on wiki only about a third who apply for citizenship are accepted. not sure they “certainly” have the right.

    • oldgeezer
      May 22, 2017, 3:12 pm

      @hophmi

      That’s bs. There may be ar ight on paper but it certainly isn’t a right Israelis are going to let non Jews exercise easily. It is a misnomer to refer to it is a right in situations like, etc this. It is merely wallpaper to cover over apartheid

      http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-almost-entirely-halts-citizenship-approvals-for-east-jerusalemites/

      • echinococcus
        May 22, 2017, 3:50 pm

        And if they had that “right”? What then?

        The eternal cheek of asking Palestinians, living on their own land, to have to ask a pirate invader from Bielorussia or Bessarabia in order to be able to stay in their own fathers’ home, in a city where the very presence of the Bessarabian invader is a war crime, where that presence is not even recognized by the invaders’ own colonial sponsors and allies.

        No citizen of the fake state of “Israel” has any right to even be present in Jerusalem. Why even debate a Hophmi on such “citizenship” requests?

    • Elliot
      May 22, 2017, 10:28 pm

      “they refuse to exercise those rights, and then cynically complain about inequality in the city.”

      IOW, we will issue a blanket denial for building permits, proper health facilities, decent transportation and other essential services until you become one of us.

      C’mon, even the Israeli government doesn’t say that. Just look at all the Palestinian Israeli villages that were forced to accept Israeli citizenship. They get treated just the same as East Jerusalem.

      In the Jewish, two-tiered system it’s not about citizenship but about being Arab.

  12. jon s
    May 22, 2017, 1:52 pm

    I hope that Phil stays long enough to see the demo scheduled for Sat. night in Tel Aviv:

    http://peacenow.org.il/en/two-states-one-hope

    • Citizen
      May 22, 2017, 3:06 pm

      Me too

    • Maghlawatan
      May 22, 2017, 4:26 pm

      Secular Israelis arent producing enough kids to offset the growth in the Haredi and settler populations. This is why there are so few normal people in the Israeli government.

      • echinococcus
        May 22, 2017, 5:00 pm

        Maghlawatan,

        If NaZionists look like “normal people” to you just because they are secular, you should worry about yourself.

      • Maghlawatan
        May 23, 2017, 6:24 am

        Echinoccus I of course mean normal by Israeli standards. Israelis are great as long as they don’t talk.

      • echinococcus
        May 23, 2017, 10:36 am

        You have rather crazy standards.

      • JustJessetr
        May 24, 2017, 3:38 pm

        “Secular Israelis arent producing enough kids to offset the growth in the Haredi and settler populations. This is why there are so few normal people in the Israeli government.”

        That is a very bigoted thing to say if you think about it, implying that Haredi aren’t normal.

      • Mooser
        May 24, 2017, 5:14 pm

        “That is a very bigoted thing to say if you think about it, implying that Haredi aren’t normal.”

        It is a very, very small community. Excessive consanguinity can wreak a terrible toll.

      • Maghlawatan
        May 26, 2017, 4:50 am

        Haredim are fine as individuals but the group is nuts. Ben Gurion decided to sponsor them because they were a small group in the early 50s but now there is a Fibonacci rabbit issue that Israel can’t afford.

  13. Boomer
    May 22, 2017, 2:35 pm

    Thanks Philip, the the candid report. If the American MSM were equally candid, the situation might be more hopeful, at least to the extent that the U.S. might be less of an enabler. That might or might not help the Palestinians, but it would at least reduce our on-going culpability.

  14. Maghlawatan
    May 22, 2017, 4:19 pm

    One of the things about politics is the assumption of stability. Netanyahu believes Israel is stable. Most Israelis do. The cost of the settlement.project increases at 9% per year. The Israeli economy is stagnating.
    Israelis may have gone over to the dark side en masse but they don’t understand economics. And every thing they do to the Palestinians is kosher and may be visited on them at some point. Ignorance is very expensive

  15. pgtl10
    May 22, 2017, 4:35 pm

    So when can a Palestinian in Gaza vote in an Israeli election or live in Jaffa? I find it interesting that an attorney think we are treated right. What law school did he go to? He is an insult to my profession.

  16. Maghlawatan
    May 22, 2017, 4:40 pm

    Phil, when you were talking to the various Israeli goons mouthing the memes of apartheid did your mind wander to Hannah Arendt and her prediction of what the insanity of Zionism would mean for the dynamics of Jewish life in Israel versus the diaspora ?

  17. Ossinev
    May 22, 2017, 5:19 pm

    “They don’t want to vote…. I know there are problems with water, and facilities. But I think if they try to open themselves…. they can manage to live with us.”

    This is perhaps the most racist of the all the overtly racist comments which Phil has noted in his article. It is breathtakingly arrogant , condescending and comfortably blind to the barbarity which Zioland has visited on the Palestinians.

    As for the Yahoo IMHO I think that he must secretly fouling his pants at the thought of Zioland spirally ever downwards and inevitably into an Apartheid Single State and the thought of all those cancelled World Tours and international appearances when he becomes the 21st Century Vorster.

  18. JLewisDickerson
    May 22, 2017, 5:43 pm

    Those Israelis Phil spoke with were worse than a “basket of deplorables”!

  19. Atlantaiconoclast
    May 22, 2017, 8:55 pm

    I am surprised that no one on this site ever mentions Two State Condominialism. As much as I would love to see a one state solution, I don’t see how it is possible, at least not for a long time.

    There IS a way to honor the nationalism of both peoples, without a hard divorce and hard separation. Even within Israel, aren’t Jews and non Jews already educated in different schools? Two state condominialism could be the answer, and a way to coax fearful Zionists into accepting a fair solution.

  20. AM
    May 23, 2017, 1:31 am

    What is the end game?

    I fear its going to get much much worse before it ever gets better. No significant group under in the age of 35 has ever had real interaction with Palestinians, so its easy for them to say these hideously racist things. Several generations have been tainted in racism and bigotry. What can be done now?

    Would I have ever thought that equal rights would cause the average person’s stomach to cringe? Maybe in the segregationist south? At this point the Israeli Govt – with near complete support of its population – will be ready in a 30-50 years to openly advocate genocide.

    Unless the United States wakes up and stop this insane policy, then nothing will change. And that policy right now is driven by blind zeal for zionism, especially by financially prominent American Jews. When will they realize that it was all a myth, and they created a legacy of horror?

  21. ToivoS
    May 23, 2017, 3:14 pm

    The Israeli who answered Phil’s question about the Palestinians — They came from I don’t know where — is very revealing. Is it possible that Israelis are unaware that the Palestinians are native to, well, Palestine? Can they be that dense? Is it possible that Israeli Jews get their knowledge about the history of Palestine from Alan Dershkowitz and Joan Peters? I always thought those two westerner hacks were simple propagandists for the Zionist cause. I find it hard to believe that Israelis actually believed that crap.

  22. MHughes976
    May 23, 2017, 4:17 pm

    The Economist has published several articles recently – in the last few days, that is – in support of 2ss. I noted how extraordinarily often the claim that the Palestinians were ‘invented’, had never existed and so on came up in the horrible comments and how important all that stuff seems to be in the mentality of the Zionist corps of fanatical apologists, who I suspect are pretty typical of opinion in Israel, at least among those who think about such matters. One said that the Crusaders never mentioned Palestine, I mentioned a Crusader poem that did and she, nothing daunted, replied that poem uses it only once, in its title, though I would have thought that that was a conspicuous reference. It seems extraordinary that a question of human rights should be debated in terms of medieval poetry and ancient inscriptions but the determination to outdo Joan Peters is certainly there.

    • Kaisa of Finland
      May 23, 2017, 7:47 pm

      MHughes976:

      I never thought about this before, but when I was living in Israel, I never heard Israelis talking about Palestinians, they always called them Arabs..

      “I have an Arab working for me”, “In Jaffa there is this good restaurant kept by Arabs”, “Let’s go and by some baklava from those Arabs”..

      That of course gives somehow more “distant position to them”.. They are not us, they are something else, Arabs, where as to call them Palestinians, would have tied them closer to the area and the history of the place.. And “to us”, beacuse part of the Palestinians were Jewish..

  23. JustJessetr
    May 24, 2017, 3:34 pm

    Phillip,

    You support Israel’s economy by visiting Jerusalem, you support settlements by visiting West Bank settlements, you support West Bank businesses by going to Zionist meetings here in the US and drinking imported West Bank wine.

    When exactly is your boycott of Israel supposed to begin?

    • Mooser
      May 24, 2017, 5:31 pm

      “When exactly is your boycott of Israel supposed to begin?”

      ROTFLMSJAO! But, but, all the Zionists say we will never know if we don’t go to Israel and see for ourselves. So he is going and seeing for himself.

      So why not encourage Phil with the traditional blessing: “You better hope Hamas doesn’t cross your path then.” http://mondoweiss.net/2017/05/new-charter-politics/#comment-176887

  24. W.Jones
    May 29, 2017, 6:04 pm

    “I am on the left. I think we are wrong. I don’t think we are right,” said Dahlia, 71. “But I don’t want Arabs in my state. They are too different from us. I am afraid of them. I think they’re violent. I don’t think it’s their nature, but their culture. I don’t think they’re a nation. They came from I don’t know where.”

    Sounds like typical Xenophobia.
    Jordanians and Lebanese and non-ISIS Syrians are fine.
    There are already 25% of Israelis who are Palestinian, so she is even being hateful to her own cocitizens.
    If that is from a “leftist” Israeli, the xenophobia must run really really deep.

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