Israel’s top diplomat spouts anti-Semitic criticism of American Jews — ‘having quite convenient lives’

Israel/Palestine
on 135 Comments

Israel’s top diplomat attacked American Jews yesterday. Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely said of American Jews:

“People that never send their children to fight for their country– most of the Jews don’t have children serving as soldiers, going to the Marines, going to Afghanistan, or to Iraq. Most of them are having quite convenient lives. They don’t feel how it feels to be attacked by rockets, and I think part of it is to actually experience what Israel is dealing with on a daily basis”

She spoke at the end of a 5-minute interview in the Israeli i24 News (in English), as noted by Haaretz today. Hotovely is top diplomat, because Benjamin Netanyahu holds the Foreign Minister portfolio himself. 

Now, had these words come from a non-Jew, we would no doubt have had a riot going on in the media about anti-Semitic vitriol – about Jews being lazy, privileged, unpatriotic and all the rest of it. But apparently, Hotovely is allowed, because she’s a Jew herself, an orthodox one no less, and she’s ultra-Zionist and all, so no one is going to call her a ‘self-hater’.

Hotovely was lashing out against American Jewry, on the background of her being disinvited by Princeton University Hillel a couple of weeks ago, following a petition by progressive activists on campus. Hotovely has been on a major collision course with American Jewry recently, and also said earlier this month that “American Jews are losing it bigtime”, in that they are supposedly threatening the existence of world Jewry, given their “80 percent” assimilation rate and growing indifference to Israel.

Haaretz notes the facts regarding the presence of US Jews in the military, including their presence in the Israeli military:

“The U.S. military stopped recording the religion of recruits decades ago, but until then Jews served in slightly greater proportion than their percentage in the general population. There continues to be a Jewish presence in the military, including in the highest ranks. Gen. David Lee Goldfein is the U.S. Air Force chief of staff. There is an organized Jewish presence at military academies. A number of Jewish ex-servicemen have run for public office in recent years. Estimates say that around 200,000 U.S. Jews live in Israel, with many young people serving in its military.”

In fact, Haaretz does not appear to be quite up to date on this issue. In 2006, this site did a survey regarding the representation of various religious communities in the US military, and managed to get statistics from the Pentagon. The survey showed that Jews were underrepresented by about 50% in the military. Still, Hotoveli’s statement about them never sending their children to the military shows that she is both uninformed and incendiary.

When asked about why Jewish Americans may not feel connected to Israel, the deputy minister said that perhaps they are “too young to remember how it feels to be a Jewish person without a Jewish state” – in a classical Hasbara diversion of the discussion from uncomfortable current issues, playing up the Holocaust card – the card that is always kept in pocket in case all else fails.

But even I don’t remember what it’s like to not have a Jewish state; I’m 45. And if I don’t remember, Hotovely certainly doesn’t – she’ll be turning 39 soon. Maybe she should have used leftist leader Avi Gabbay’s saying that he stole from Netanyahu – that “the left have forgotten what it means to be Jewish”– and applied it to American Jews instead.  

Hotoveli has said unabashedly in the past that “this land is ours – all of it is ours.” But so far, she seems to have meant it regarding the whole of historical Palestine. Now she seems to be patronizing American Jews as if the whole of USA was hers too.

What we are seeing here is an Israeli politician who has finally been challenged by a major US Jewish campus organization, and she is so angry, she cannot control herself in her rage – behind that constant smile. The question to be asked is not whether American Jews are “losing it”, but whether Hotovely, as well as Israel, are losing the battle for the heart of American Jewry. 

About Jonathan Ofir

Israeli musician, conductor and blogger / writer based in Denmark.

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135 Responses

  1. eljay
    November 23, 2017, 12:57 pm

    … Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely said of American Jews:

    “ … most of the Jews don’t have children serving as soldiers … “

    Shame on Ms. Hotovely for anti-Semitically “counting Jews”.

  2. amigo
    November 23, 2017, 1:12 pm

    ““The U.S. military stopped recording the religion of recruits decades ago.”

    The US military records the “nationality ” of it,s recruits.

    It seems, the US military sees Jewish recruits as being part of a religious group and not part of any nation just like Catholic/Protestant /Moslem /Hindu/Atheist .

    Most Jewish recruits are American.Some may be German or Russian or Chinese or Canadian , etc , etc.Jewish recruits from Israel , (if it ever happens) are Israelis.

    The usual suspects here who want us to believe that Jews are a nation , might want to take this up with the US military. I am not going to argue with them.They are right.

  3. JosephA
    November 23, 2017, 2:20 pm

    Tzipi Hotovely, like Milikewski (Netanyahu), is extremist, racist garbage. They are both filled with hate, and it shows.

  4. pabelmont
    November 23, 2017, 3:53 pm

    And, speaking of rockets, who was it, again, who used first terrorism and then militias and finally a national army to perform ethnic cleansing on the Palestinians? And now they complain about rockets? That war never finished, and they have themselves to blame — and far greater blame for all the rockets they have launched against Palestinians and Lebanese.

    Oh, dear, O deary-deary me! I killed my parents and now I am an orphan!

  5. Keith
    November 23, 2017, 3:54 pm

    HAARETZ- “There continues to be a Jewish presence in the military, including in the highest ranks. Gen. David Lee Goldfein is the U.S. Air Force chief of staff.”

    I suspect that this Jewish presence in the military is heavily weighted toward the officer corps rather than the enlisted ranks as befitting their relative position in society. I wonder if American Jews serving in the Israeli military are similarly divided? As for the number of Jews being less than their percent of the population (per Phil), nothing wrong with that. There is nothing honorable about voluntarily becoming an imperial storm trooper. Let nobody pretend that the US military is basically engaged in defense of the homeland, protecting freedom, etc.

    • Cazador
      November 24, 2017, 9:00 am

      Right on, Keith!

      Which reminds me that historians have declared the US Empire as being the most murderous in human history.

    • Jackdaw
      November 24, 2017, 12:43 pm

      There’s no winning with you, Keith.
      Sad.

      • Brewer
        November 24, 2017, 5:53 pm

        Most reasonable folk finding themselves in that position would give some thought to the possibility they might be on the wrong side Jackdaw.

    • Citizen
      November 24, 2017, 4:12 pm

      I was in the enlisted combat ranks for 3 years & I was assigned all over Germany & I met one Jewish American regular soldier.

  6. lonely rico
    November 23, 2017, 6:49 pm

    As a died-in-the-wool feminist, I keep hoping that female intelligence/sensibility will finally overcome present insanity, which is on the verge of driving the human race over a cliff.
    I keep hoping that such as Maggie Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin etc. were aberrations and hopefully to be shortly replaced by good women, sane women concerned with the world we are to leave to our children and onward.
    Tzipi Hotovely dashes these hopes – I am forced to admit some women are as dumb-ass as their male peer bottom-feeders.

    • Kaisa of Finland
      November 23, 2017, 8:14 pm

      Lonely Rico:

      My questions are: Why do women so often have to become like men, before they can really gain some power? And why do some women feel urge to vote for those men who are known to be p***y grabers?? That is like kicking your own ankle.

    • oldgeezer
      November 23, 2017, 9:36 pm

      I’ve always hoped that we would have decent leaders who care about the collective they represented as well as others in the world so we can do some good. I never literally thought a man but that’s because we grew up when it was only men so the thought was superfluous.

      I’ve reached the same conclusions as you. Greed for money and power corrupts. And regardless of the gender of the person who is the lead candidate in any election they sold their soul and our future to make it to that spot.

      Truly sad. We need to reform our democratic structures so individual people have a much larger say and the role of representatives is drasctically reduced. I guess we could still be bought off but at least then the majority of us would be being bought.

    • Citizen
      November 24, 2017, 2:16 am

      Elizabeth Warren shows she will fight Wall Street, but not the Israel Lobby. Anybody else? I see nobody here, regardless of gender: Analysis | The top 15 possible 2020 Democratic nominees, ranked http://wapo.st/2gPPDRx?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.2046a90fc463

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 24, 2017, 10:31 am

        “Elizabeth Warren shows she will fight Wall Street, but not the Israel Lobby..”

        Obviously we have to start this change from the bottom to the top, not the opposite.

        27.11.-2.2.2017 we’ll be having Rania Madi and Lia Tarachansky touring in the three biggest cities in Finland, talking about the I/P and Zionism from the history untill today. A lot has been happening here this year around this issue. There is no time to wait for some “good world leaders” to appear, might never happen, we (the average people) have to start working about this now and some change might start happening.

        https://electronicintifada.net/content/delegitimize-zionism-says-israeli-filmmaker/14009

      • Citizen
        November 24, 2017, 4:13 pm

        Finland is not the officially diversity proud USA

      • Jack Green
        November 24, 2017, 4:51 pm

        Kaisa of Finland

        Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries. Even when not actively persecuting the Jews, the majority-gentile countries refused to give refuge to the Jews when they needed it. There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries would have allowed in Jewish refugees who were escaping from the Nazis. The idea of Zionism was that Jews would return to their homeland & have a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for the Jews.

      • Jack Green
        November 24, 2017, 5:36 pm

        Kaisa of Finland

        Should Finland grant Finnish citizenship to Palestinian refugees?

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 24, 2017, 7:09 pm

        Jack:

        “Should Finland grant Finnish citizenship to Palestinian refugees?”

        ?????????????????

        Ofcourse we are!

        “A requirement for citizenship is that you live in Finland and that you have done so for a sufficient length of time (period of residence):

        If you have refugee (and here we do not separate people by their background, religion or anything else) status in Finland or you have been granted a residence permit on the basis of subsidiary or humanitarian protection, it is enough that you have lived in Finland for the past four years without interruption (to be able to aply for the citizenship). (And if you are not a criminal, you will most likely get it, I have not met anyone who did not..)

        Your period of residence begins from the date on which you submitted your application for asylum in Finland or for a residence permit.”

        We have former Palestinian refugees living in here who have Finnish citizenship. We also have Jewish Israelis who have Finnish citizenship for themselves and for their children (allthough they most likely did not come here as refugees or asylum seekers). Here we have same rules for everyone, so no separate laws based on someones identity, religion or other background.

        http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship/applying_for_citizenship/requirements/residence_period

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 24, 2017, 7:27 pm

        Jack:

        Why do you think you are entitled to have two home countries (I asume you were not born in Israel) and the Palestinians non (so the West Bankers should just give up an leave so that you can fit in??)?? Sounds quite greedy to me? My Israelian friends taught me Judaism was all about caring and sharing, so are you now telling me suddenly it is not?? Or have Judaism and Zionism ever really been connected??

      • RoHa
        November 24, 2017, 9:02 pm

        If you are going to keep on repeating this stuff, at least correct the grammar.

        “There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries HAD allowed in Jewish refugees …”

        Then you will get at least one thing right.

        And no matter how much Jews were persecuted, it does not give them a right to persecute other people and take over their land.

      • oldgeezer
        November 24, 2017, 9:52 pm

        @RoHa

        I love how zionists always market this falsehood
        ““There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries HAD allowed in Jewish refugees …””

        At the same time that they pretend that Holocaust remembrance honours all groups that were targeted for elimination.

        Just as they went crazy over the pre approved Trudeau statement that didn’t explicitlymention Jews.

        Nope no Roma. No one else. If the Jews had been saved then there was no holocaust.

        No one else matters. It’s as simple as that. And that belief allows them to abuse, murder and ethnically cleanse millions of human beings without a second thought or moment of hesitation.

      • Keith
        November 25, 2017, 12:54 am

        JACK GREEN- “Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries.”

        Jews have functioned as service nomads for centuries, during which time they assisted the Gemtile nobility in repressing the Gentile peasants. During this period, the Jews were RELATIVELY priveleged compared to the majority of Gentiles.

        JACK GREEN- “There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries would have allowed in Jewish refugees who were escaping from the Nazis.”

        Zionism was not a rescue effort. Period. How many Ukrainians would have escaped the Holodomor if the US had accepted Ukrainian refugees? Which they didn’t, giving priority to Jewish refugees. To once again quote Tree to you, which I have done in the past to no avail:

        “German immigration, although limited by quotas, was not banned, and in fact from the 1930’s to early 1940’s its estimated that 140,000 German Jews immigrated to the US, and the total German Jewish immigration to other countries was on the order of 450,000 or 70% of the total German Jewish population of 600,000.
        ….
        It should also be noted that during the time of the US immigration quotas, Ukrainians, who were dying in the millions from the forced starvation of the Holodomor, were almost completely cut off from any immigration to the US. Poles, who were as a nation suffering from the Soviet Union’s Great Terror were also nearly completely cut off from US immigration, as were other Eastern and Southern Europeans. The majority of the Europeans who were victimized by the massive curtailment of US immigration opportunities that occurred in the 1920’s and onward were religiously Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.

        It should also be noted that during this time any immigration to the US from Asian countries was COMPLETELY prohibited, and those Asians who had immigrated earlier were prohibited from becoming naturalized US citizens.” http://mondoweiss.net/2013/09/latest-generous-offer-leaked-israel-wants-to-control-jordan-river-and-40-of-west-bank-while-palestinians-get-temporary-borders/#comment-591577

        So Jack, if you want to dispute the data, do so. Otherwise, quit pretending that it does not exist. And we have been over this before.

        JACK GREEN- “. The idea of Zionism was that Jews would return to their homeland & have a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for the Jews.”

        No, Zionism was all about Jewish tribalism (peoplehood), not about safety. Speaking of safety, have the Zionist Jews of Israel provided safety for the non-Jewish citizens of Israel or the non-Jewish residents in the occupied territories?

      • MHughes976
        November 25, 2017, 12:57 pm

        It is true ‘analytically’, from the meanings of the words, that had all the Jewish populations which were to be affected by the Holocaust been relocated in good time to safe places, even safe places without a Jewish majority, there would, other things being equal, have been no Holocaust.
        That truth presupposes that many such safe places existed and that many non-Jewish people were ready to treat their Jewish fellows humanely: sometimes indeed there was an element of generosity, in that normal immigration rules were waived. The policies leading to the Holocaust were in fact much reduced in impact by the fact that many Jewish people had been permitted to emigrate to other countries. Of course this mitigating factor was insufficient, alas. We should note that it was insufficient in part because generosity to what we now call asylum seekers was not enough but in part also to the fact that many potential victims never had the chance to flee.

    • Cazador
      November 24, 2017, 9:03 am

      It’s as if they had to show their manly threatening side to be taken seriously, voted in, and remain representative of the population they’re supposed to represent and keep safe.

      • Emory Riddle
        November 26, 2017, 8:35 am

        “Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries.”

        You do realize that you would be hard pressed to find any peoples who have not been oppressed and persecuted by the ruling elites in any country for centuries?

        And that’s just the white people.

        Think of the horrors visited in black and brown people over the past several centuries.

        Jews should stop thinking of themselves as some kind of special victims.

      • Jack Green
        November 26, 2017, 10:15 am

        Emory Riddle

        The English, the Scots, the Welsh, the Dutch, the French, the Belgians, the Swiss, the Germans, the Italians, the Swedes, the Danes, the Norwegians, the Finns, the Austrians, the Hungarians, the Romanians, the Bulgarians, the Turks, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Czechs, the Catholics, the Protestants, etc. have not been confined to ghettos nor have they been victims of genocide.

      • MHughes976
        November 26, 2017, 10:18 am

        There are other points of view. ‘England has been all she could be to the Jews, the Jews will be all they can be to England’ proclaimed the Jewish Chronicle on August 14, 1914, heralding significant Jewish participation in the War effort.

      • JosephA
        November 26, 2017, 10:20 am

        JACK GREEN- “Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries.”

        ^ ^ ^

        When I pointed out to Jack Green on several occasions that the Jews thrived for centuries in majority Muslim countries, he had no meaningful response. His argument/comment is complete hogwash. Had he written “in majority Christian countries”, it might have made at least some sense. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell Jack Green is not really interested in facts, or logic for that matter.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 26, 2017, 11:10 am

        Jack:

        “The English, the Scots, the Welsh, the Dutch, the French, the Belgians, the Swiss, the Germans, the Italians, the Swedes, the Danes, the Norwegians, the Finns, the Austrians, the Hungarians, the Romanians, the Bulgarians, the Turks, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Czechs, the Catholics, the Protestants, etc. have not been confined to ghettos nor have they been victims of genocide..”

        Hoh hoijaaa Jack, as would say in Finnish..

        Please start studying some World History instead of some kind of Zio History..

        Emory already said it all and as Oldgeezer pointed out, maybe you should check the history of the Nazis and the Roma people too..

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 26, 2017, 12:16 pm

        Jack:

        It should not be my job to find you relevant books to read, since you are the one who loves to use history as an excuse for all kinds of oppressing and violent actions today, but I think this could be a book for you to start:

        (If you do not wish to read this book, you can surely find other books of the same subject and please read something deeper than two lines from Wikipedia!)

        https://notevenpast.org/stalins-genocides-human-rights-and-crimes-against-humanity-2011/

      • ErsatzYisrael
        November 26, 2017, 1:47 pm

        Jack Green, said on November 26, 2017, 10:15 am:

        The English, the Scots, the Welsh, the Dutch, the French, the Belgians, the Swiss, the Germans, the Italians, the Swedes, the Danes, the Norwegians, the Finns, the Austrians, the Hungarians, the Romanians, the Bulgarians, the Turks, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Czechs, the Catholics, the Protestants, etc. have not been confined to ghettos nor have they been victims of genocide.

        Aside from the fact that there are English Jews, Scottish Jews, Welsh Jews, Dutch Jews, French Jews, Belgian Jews, Swiss Jews, German Jews, Italian Jews, Swedish Jews, Danish Jews, Norwegian Jews, Finnish Jews, Austrian Jews, Hungarian Jews, Romanian Jews, Bulgarian Jews, Turkish Jews, Spanish Jews, Portuguese Jews and Czech Jews, and in spite of the fact that a Jew who converts to Catholicism or Protestantism ceases being a Jew, how does being “confined to ghettos” or being “victims of genocide” entitle foreign Zionist Jews to confine the Palestinians in ghettos or entitle foreign Zionist Jews to genocide the Palestinians?

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2017, 2:14 pm

        “The English, the Scots, the Welsh,…etc.,etc.,…/… have not been confined to ghettos nor have they been victims of genocide.” “Jack Green”

        Dude, hold on! Take it easy! Aren’t you trying to punch ‘way ‘way above our weight? You’ll just get yourself in a tsimmes.

        See, “Jack” those are all countries, which can bind their citizens to laws and compel compliance. The Jews cannot do that, and will always be at a disadvantage.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2017, 2:48 pm

        “Think of the horrors visited in black and brown people over the past several centuries.”

        That’s different. That kind of stuff isn’t supposed to happen to us. Why should Jews be treated like black or brown people?

      • gamal
        November 26, 2017, 6:59 pm

        “That kind of stuff isn’t supposed to happen to us. Why should Jews be treated like black or brown people?”

        and I mean after you had whiteness and Shiksas brutally imposed on you, at least we were spared that.

      • Jack Green
        November 26, 2017, 10:23 pm

        Kaisa of Finland

        I never claimed that the Jews were the only people who had been persecuted & I favor statehood for the Roma, the Kurds, etc. if they want it.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2017, 11:00 pm

        “the fact that a Jew who converts to Catholicism or Protestantism ceases being a Jew.”

        Well, people might pretend not to notice, but the Jew who converts still has his Jewish DNA. You can’t fight your custard. The conversion isn’t over till the gene-splicing is done, and the Old Testicle replaced by the New. That’s as much as I understand about it, but “Jack Green” can explain the rest.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 27, 2017, 8:20 am

        Jack:

        “I never claimed that the Jews were the only people who had been persecuted & I favor statehood for the Roma, the Kurds, etc. if they want it..”

        And the Palestinians??

      • ErsatzYisrael
        November 27, 2017, 10:47 am

        Well, people might pretend not to notice, but the Jew who converts still has his Jewish DNA.

        Don’t be absurd, “Mooser”, his poor persecuted “Jewish DNA” morphs into Catholic DNA or Protestant DNA within the space of a few hours, and his poor mutilpersecuted foreskin grows back within the space of a few days.

      • Mooser
        November 27, 2017, 12:26 pm

        , “at least we were spared that.”

        “gamal” when it happens to them, it’s history. When it happens to us, it’s a crime.

    • CigarGod
      November 25, 2017, 11:19 am

      Lonely Rico:
      Maybe I don’t understand your comment.
      Are you suggesting there are not yet any women who match the leadership caliber of men?
      If that is what you are saying, I disagree and suggest we have reached gender competency nirvana.
      Women seem to be as wildly imperfect as men.
      I had hoped to discover the laws of human nature to be tilted in favor of women…but the more I thought about it, the more examples from history came to mind…of women behaving like men…or to be precise…like humans.

      • Mooser
        November 25, 2017, 5:16 pm

        “Women seem to be as wildly imperfect as men.”

        What mighty ills have not been done by woman! Who was’t betray’d the Capitol? A woman; Who lost Mark Antony the world? A woman; Who was the cause of a long ten years’ war, And laid at last old Troy is ashes? Woman; Destructive, damnable, deceitful woman!

      • RoHa
        November 25, 2017, 6:51 pm

        Women began gaining direct political power as voters and politicians from the final years of the Nineteenth Century onward.

        And then we had the First World War, the Great Depression, the Second World War, the loss of the British Empire, and Margaret Thatcher.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2017, 2:24 pm

        And then…/…Margaret Thatcher.

        From ministering angels to administering all the angles!

      • Jack Green
        November 27, 2017, 10:34 am

        Kaisa of Finland

        I favor statehood for the Palestinians if they want it & are willing to live in peace.

      • ErsatzYisrael
        November 27, 2017, 11:07 am

        I favor statehood for the Palestinians if they want it & are willing to live in peace.

        The Palestinians need to get hold of some BFGs, because there will never be peace in Palestine until Zionism is neutralized and the apartheid Zionist regime is relegated to the dustbin of history.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 27, 2017, 11:17 am

        Jack:

        “I favor statehood for the Palestinians if they want it & are willing to live in peace..”

        So the thing you can start to do right now, is to start demanding the IDF and ALL of the Illegal Settlers immidiately leaving the WB and the East Jerusalem. When this is done, maybe the Palestinians will be ready to discuss about the future.

      • Jack Green
        November 27, 2017, 7:38 pm

        Kaisa of Finland

        I don’t excuse oppressing and violent actions.

      • echinococcus
        November 28, 2017, 12:11 am

        I don’t excuse oppressing and violent actions.

        Says the Green One.
        No, he merely participates in invasion, theft, war of aggression, ethnic cleansing and genocide as, at the very least, an accessory. Look up Streicher, you propaganda thingie.

      • amigo
        November 28, 2017, 9:24 am

        “I don’t excuse oppressing and violent actions.” jack green

        Sure you don,t jacko.

        “Israel has every right to change its self-declared borders.” Jack Green

        http://mondoweiss.net/2017/11/way-treat-child/

        So how does Israel achieve that goal without engaging in oppressive and violent actions???.

        I get it, they just send an E,mail to each Palestinian telling them the borders are being changed and they should get out of their property.Of course if they resist and Israel has to “defend” itself , then that is not an oppressive or violent act.

        See how stupid we gentiles are.We could never have worked that out without the incomparable and erudite assistance from Jack Green and folks like him.

        Btw , when are you going to acknowledge the Nakba. 9th request.

  7. Ian Berman
    November 23, 2017, 8:45 pm

    When someone else writes a succinct and eloquent response you wish you had:

    Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely: “People that never send their children to fight for their country, most of the Jews don’t have children serving as soldiers, going to the Marines, going to Afghanistan, or to Iraq. Most of them are having quite convenient lives. They don’t feel how it feels to be attacked by rockets, and I think part of it is to actually experience what Israel is dealing with on a daily basis.” – Haaretz

    Michael Katz: You have rockets flying at you because you chased many non-Jews into a concentration camp that you periodically bomb.

    • Jackdaw
      November 24, 2017, 12:51 pm

      @Ian Berman

      The Arabs had been attacking the Zionists long before 1948, 1967 and 1973.

      Here’s one Mondoweiss would sooner forget.

      Joshua Ben-Arieh, his wife, Shoshanah, and a son, Arieh, stabbed and burned to death; another son, Moshe, one-and-a-half years old, shot dead.

      Rivka leimer, 10, and her brothers, Chaim, 12, and ezra, 8, stabbed and burned to death. Both families were in the Ben-Arieh house at the time of the attack.

      Rachel Mizrachi, 26, and her five children, Ezra, Miriam, Yochebed, Samuel and Hephzibah, aged 12, 5, 3, 2 and I, respectively, killed while the father, Shimon Yochanan Mizrachi, was on guard duty in a distant part of the city.

      Menachem Kabni, an American citizen, and his wife stabbed and burned to death. His sister escaped. what part of the united states kabni came from was not ascertained immediately.

      ezekiel katz, 42, killed when the synagogue was burned down.

      https://www.jta.org/1938/10/04/archive/21-jews-slain-in-tiberias-massacre-worst-since-29-synagogue-homes-razed

      • Citizen
        November 24, 2017, 4:16 pm

        @ Jackdaw

        & now for the real meat, check out the stats of who’s getting slaughtered on If Americans Only Knew.

      • Jackdaw
        November 25, 2017, 12:41 am

        @Citizen

        Great Britain killed more Nazi civilians than Nazis killed British civilians

        Whose side would you have fought on?

      • CigarGod
        November 25, 2017, 11:23 am

        Jack…you mean there was such a thing as murder back then?

      • echinococcus
        November 28, 2017, 12:19 am

        The Arabs had been attacking the Zionists long before 1948, 1967 and 1973.

        Which “Arabs”? Mauretanians?
        Palestinians, owners of Palestine, have had a perfectly legitimate justification to fight colonial invasion from its very first day, by any means available.

        If they had woken up in time and put up strong resistance before the arrival of he English, we wouldn’t have this cancer on the world’s asscheek today.

    • Cazador
      November 24, 2017, 2:17 pm

      Indeed, Ian, especially before Israeli elections…

    • Jack Green
      November 27, 2017, 5:41 pm

      Kaisa of Finland

      Jews lived for centuries in Hebron & Gaza. In 1929, Hebron & Gaza were ethnically cleansed of their Jews. In 1948, the West Bank & East Jerusalem were ethnically cleansed of their Jews. Why is it illegal for Jews to rebuild their homes in Hebron, Gaza, the West Bank & East Jerusalem?

    • Jack Green
      November 27, 2017, 5:44 pm

      ErsatzYisrael

      Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries. Even when not actively persecuting the Jews, the majority-gentile countries refused to give refuge to the Jews when they needed it. There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries would have allowed in Jewish refugees who were escaping from the Nazis. The idea of Zionism was that Jews would return to their homeland & have a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for the Jews.

      • Keith
        November 28, 2017, 12:43 am

        JACK GREEN- “Even when not actively persecuting the Jews, the majority-gentile countries refused to give refuge to the Jews when they needed it.”

        When have the majority Gentile countries given refuge to Gentiles when they needed it? How many times do I have to post the comment from Tree regarding Jews receiving PRIORITY over Ukrainian and Polish Gentiles? Specifically directed at you, I might add. Have you no shame?

        “It should also be noted that during the time of the US immigration quotas, Ukrainians, who were dying in the millions from the forced starvation of the Holodomor, were almost completely cut off from any immigration to the US. Poles, who were as a nation suffering from the Soviet Union’s Great Terror were also nearly completely cut off from US immigration, as were other Eastern and Southern Europeans. The majority of the Europeans who were victimized by the massive curtailment of US immigration opportunities that occurred in the 1920’s and onward were religiously Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.” (Tree) http://mondoweiss.net/2017/11/diplomat-criticism-convenient/#comment-898217

      • Jack Green
        November 28, 2017, 10:42 am

        Keith

        I didn’t say that majority-gentile countries refused entry only to Jews.

        Hitler wanted the Jews out of Europe. If Israel had existed, all six million could have gone to Israel.

      • ErsatzYisrael
        November 28, 2017, 12:24 pm

        Foreign zio-Jew squatters have been persecuting the indigenous Palestinian people for more than a century in majority-Palestinian Palestine. Since 1948, the foreign zio-Jew squatters have not stopped persecuting gentiles in the gentile-majority countries bordering majority-Palestinian Palestine. In 1944, when President Roosevelt provisionally secured safe haven for a half million Holocaust Survivors, the foreign zio-Jew squatters sabotaged President Roosevelt’s efforts to provide refuge that would have saved a half million victims of the Holocaust. There would have been no Holocaust if the foreign zio-Jew squatters hadn’t prevented the free passage of Jews to majority-gentile countries during WWII. The idea of Zionism was that foreign zio-Jew squatters would bribe a world power in return for infiltrating and ethnically cleansing the Palestinian people’s homeland, because the foreign Zio-Jew terrorists squatting in Palestine are mass-murdering zio terrorist scum.

        FIFY.

      • Keith
        November 28, 2017, 6:56 pm

        JACK GREEN- ” If Israel had existed, all six million could have gone to Israel.”

        Jack, we have discussed this at length on 10/28 where I pointed out that Palestine was not capable of absorbing anywhere near 6 million refugees during the late 1930s. Here, refresh your memory: http://mondoweiss.net/2017/10/newspaper-employment-immigrants/#comment-895857

        Yet, this fantasy of yours raises a couple of interesting points. The first is that the Zionists turned back Eastern European Jews who were not suitable pioneer material, substituting young American Zionist Jews instead. Zionism was not a refugee project, period. The second fascinating point is what if your fantasy came true and somehow, by magic, 6 million Eastern European Jews came to Palestine. Since the majority of Jews who died in the Holocaust were either non-Zionists or anti-Zionists, what would have been the consequences for Zionism which absolutely NEEDED the Holocaust to bring their project to fruition? No Holocaust, no Jewish state. Think about it. During the 1930s, the Zionists did.

        “When they come to us with two plans–the rescue of the masses of Jews in Europe or the redemption of the land–I vote, without a second thought, for the redemption of the land. The more said about the slaughter of our people, the greater the minimization of our efforts to strengthen and promote the Hebraisation of the land.” (p51, “The Hidden History of Zionism,” Ralph Schoenman)

      • Eva Smagacz
        November 28, 2017, 7:47 pm

        Jack Green:

        You said:

        “Hitler wanted the Jews out of Europe. If Israel had existed, all six million could have gone to Israel”.

        Absolute hogwash.

        Zionists, wanted to leave weak Jews behind and breed Hebrews. They did not want observant Jews in Palestine. In the ’30s the Jewish Agency handed out certificates, and anyone who was religious/ observant had difficulties obtaining one. The result of that policy was that even though there were “Dati’im” among the settlers, the first Kibbutz Dati had to wait until 1937, and Poalei Agudat Yisrael didn’t get a kibbutz allotment until 1943.

        And lets not forget Golda Meir, who was quite blunt as to whom she would and would not welcome:
        “A proposal was raised in the coordination committee to inform the Polish government that we want to institute selection in aliyah, because we cannot continue accepting sick and handicapped people. Please give your opinion as to whether this can be explained to the Poles without hurting immigration,” read the document, written by Meir to Israel’s ambassador to Poland, Katriel Katz.

        Of course, sick people were Holocaust survivors.

        Devorah Hakohen writes in her book Immigrants in Turmoil:

        The Sick and the Disabled:

        The Immigration Ministry aliyah officers were instructed to grant visas only to those in good health. Shapira, who served simultaneously as minister of health, explained That more than 10 percent of the displaced persons in the camps in Germany and Austria required continuous medical attention. The reports indicated a total of 2,300 cripples, 100 cases of tuberculosis, and a host of other chronic and contagious diseases. Shapira maintained that medical care for the immigrants was a very expensive proposition, whereas the state could barely cover the cost of absorption. A debate raged between the Jewish Agency and the Ministry of Health as to the question of financing. Shapira claimed that it was the Jewish Agency’s responsibility to finance absorption, including medical services; the Ministry of Health was prepared to supply the administrative and medical staff on condition that the Jewish Agency handled funding.

        From November 1948 on, medical supervision was introduced in the DP camps to prevent the immigration of persons who were seriously ill. Here, too, the Ministry of Health and the Jewish Agency clashed. The ministry accused the Jewish Agency of laxity in its supervision because its policy was to organise the aliyah of as many people as possible. In the end, it was decided to establish a joint committee of physicians to determine criteria for the immigration of the sick and disabled; the committee was instructed to keep the number of sick olim to a minimum. Nevertheless, many diseased, sick, and elderly persons in need of medical attention and welfare found their way to Israel. Giora Josephthal claimed that they constituted close to 9 percent of the immigrant community.

        In December 1948 it was decided to tighten the medical selection. A review board under the joint auspices of the Ministry of Health and the Jewish Agency was asked to prepare a list of diseases that would bar a person from immigrating.

        Instructions were also given to halt the immigration of crippled people: Yitzhak Raphael, who had just returned from a trip to Europe, affirmed that the DP camps in Germany were full of people with such handicaps. He told the Jewish Agency Executive that he had ordered officials there to stop granting them visas in compliance with the Executive’s decision in this regard1.
        As an increasing number of immigrants began arriving from Islamic countries, dismal reports were received about the health of this population. Accord ing to Raphael, during the medical examination of prospective olim in a certain North African country, thirty-four cases of venereal disease, trachoma, and other contagious illnesses were diagnosed in one day.

        Despite the orders to cut back on the number of sick and disabled immigrants, they continued to arrive in Israel. The aliyah activists either looked the other way or were tricked into believing these people were well. The burden of these immigrants’ care fell on the Jewish Agency’s Immigration Department, Its director, Zvi Herman, raised an outcry about the seriousness of the situation, claiming chat elderly and handicapped persons accounted for nearly 18 percent of all newcomers and demanding that immigration from the DP camps in Germany and North Africa be reduced in view of poor health that prevailed there.

        Nevertheless, immigration swelled rather than diminished, and the medical situation worsened. The dilemma was grossest in those areas where it was planned to liquidate the Jewish community, such as the DP camp, in Europe and countries like Bulgaria and Libya, where nearly the entire population had been transplanted to Israel.

        The question was what to do with the many sick, handicapped, and elderly people who remained. The Jewish Agency asked the JDC to take than people under its wing, and indeed, the willingness of this organisation to help somewhat easeed the hardship. However, the overall problem was not solved, and as the months went by the difficulties mounted. In the stormy debate over Israel’s immigration policy, the plight of the old and suffering become a pivotal issue.”

        SO NO. SIX MILLION WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO ISRAEL. To say otherwise is no whitewashing and re-writing history.

        53/60

    • Jack Green
      November 27, 2017, 7:30 pm

      Kaisa of Finland

      In 1967 when there were no settlers in the WB or East Jerusalem, this is what Arab leaders said:

      “Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel.” – Nasser, May 27, 1967

      “We will not accept any … coexistence with Israel. … Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel …. The war with Israel is in effect since 1948.” – Nasser, May 28, 1967

      “The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations.” – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan’s King Hussein

      “We are now ready to confront Israel …. The issue now at hand is not the Gulf of Aqaba, the Straits of Tiran, or the withdrawal of UNEF, but the … aggression which took place in Palestine … with the collaboration of Britain and the United States.” – Nasser, June 2, 1967

      • Keith
        November 28, 2017, 12:53 am

        JACK GREEN- “In 1967 when there were no settlers in the WB or East Jerusalem, this is what Arab leaders said:”

        Money talks and bullshit walks! Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me! Who cares what the Arab leaders said to rally mass support, the reality is that US and Israeli intelligence KNEW that if the Arabs attacked, Israel would triumph in two weeks whereas if Israel attacked (which it did), Israel would triumph in one week. That is the reality which you are trying to distort.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 28, 2017, 2:44 am

        Jack:

        “Jews lived for centuries in Hebron & Gaza. In 1929, Hebron & Gaza were ethnically cleansed of their Jews. In 1948, the West Bank & East Jerusalem were ethnically cleansed of their Jews. Why is it illegal for Jews to rebuild their homes in Hebron, Gaza, the West Bank & East Jerusalem..”

        And why are the Palestinians not rebuilding their homes around Israel in those areas/villages they were thrown away in the past and Israel is rather demolishing new homes all the time??

        I have no idea why some American or European Jews would have any legitimacy to “rebuild” anything in Gaza or East Jerusalem. Would be different, if we were talking about the Jewish Palestinians who used to live in the area before Israel.

        “In 1967 when there were no settlers in the WB or East Jerusalem, this is what Arab leaders said..”

        Wellcome to the 21st century. Zionists were the external intruders, you assume they would have been wellcomed by roses and huggs??

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 28, 2017, 5:50 am

        Jack:

        The more you try to feed me with this Zionist propaganda, the more I start to think that maybe the only solution is that Israel ceases to exist. If the Zionists are not ready to compromize and to see the other side of the situation, then what there is now, must stop existing. It can become something else then. I do not believe in deportations of those Jewish Israelis who were born in the area, but there is nothing acceptable with some American/European born brainwashed people thinking they are entitled to dictate all of the terms, how things should happen.

        You made me think that the only way to peace might be no Israel. Some united area with common administration, new name, new flag, but no Israel.

      • Jack Green
        November 28, 2017, 10:47 am

        Keith

        I was responding to people who blame the settlers & the occupation for the lack of peace.
        In 1967, when there was no occupation & there were no settlers, I didn’t hear Arab leaders calling for peace.

      • Keith
        November 28, 2017, 5:25 pm

        JACK GREEN- “In 1967, when there was no occupation & there were no settlers, I didn’t hear Arab leaders calling for peace.”

        Actions speak louder than words. Zionist Jews conquered Palestine in 1948, expelling most of the “inconvenient” Palestinian Arab population. Along with Britain and France, Israel invaded Egypt in 1956. In 1967, confident of an easy victory, Israel made war on its neighbors to achieve territorial expansion. Who is the warmonger, Israel or some bigmouth Arab leaders? Furthermore, if you want to emphasize words, what do the Israel leaders say to their followers in Hebrew regarding territorial compromise with the Palestinians? Don’t pretend that you don’t know that Israeli politicians assure their supporters that there will be no Palestinian state west of the Jordan river, or that they would not surrender even one inch of the sacred soil to non-Jews. It is an asymmetrical relationship where Israel alone has the power to unilaterally bring about a just peace which, for a variety of reasons, it has no intention of doing.

      • Mooser
        November 28, 2017, 6:47 pm

        “I was responding to people who blame the settlers & the occupation for the lack of peace.” “Jack Green”

        Very true, “Jack”. The settlers needed the support of the GOI and the IDF to get anywhere. Blaming the settlers alone is incorrect.

    • Jack Green
      November 28, 2017, 10:33 am

      amigo

      Israel had already expanded its de facto borders by going into areas that had been assigned to the Arabs in order to protect the Jews who had been living in those areas & were now under attack.

      • Jack Green
        November 28, 2017, 10:51 am

        Kaisa of Finland

        I favor an independent Palestine. You favor the destruction of Israel.
        Who’s the one not willing to compromise?

      • Jack Green
        November 28, 2017, 10:58 am

        Kaisa of Finland

        So agree that Jews who were ethnically cleansed from the West Bank, Gaza & East Jerusalem & have moved back to the West Bank, Gaza & East Jerusalem are NOT illegal?

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 28, 2017, 11:26 am

        Jack:

        “I favor an independent Palestine. You favor the destruction of Israel.
        Who’s the one not willing to compromise?”

        How can Palestine be independent, if the illegal settlers and the IDF are not leaving?? Most of the settlers are immigrants from Europe and U.S. and have no personal connection to the land. If the Settlements should be allowed, it would mean all the Palestinians living in diaspora, thrown away from Israel would also have permission to return and to resettle to their areas inside Israel.

        So there are two possibilities: Two states, one under the Palestinian rule and one under the Israelian rule, East Jerusalem for the Palestinians and the other part for the Israel or one state, new name, under common rule and with equal rights.

      • Mooser
        November 28, 2017, 6:44 pm

        “Israel had already expanded its de facto borders by going into areas that had been assigned to the Arabs in order to protect the Jews who had been living in those areas & were now under attack.”

        If they were living in areas “assigned to the Arabs” and were under attack, maybe they should have gone back to their own area.

  8. gingershot
    November 23, 2017, 9:04 pm

    Happy Thanksgiving to all
    – library lecture notice below:

    ===

    ‘Putinchev’s Cobra – The Stung Clean Break Drive on Iran’

    WHEN: Wed Nov 29, 2017, 5:00 ~ 6 pm
    WHERE: Otay Branch San Diego Public Library,
    3003 Coronado Ave, San Diego, Ca 92154
    WHO: Dr Lance Dale

    Overview, zeitgeist, context and potential sweeping clarification of US and Israeli strategic intent and current play in the light of the Iran Deal, UN 2334, the ICC, and other recognized existential events*

    The Stung Clean Break Drive on Iran

    Putin’s Triple Crown – Hillary, Trump and Kahanist-dominant Political Judaism

    Matrix/Intersectionality Checkmate, Modeling PM Barak/8200’s Great Tsunami on Israel

    Zeitgeist Snap and Shattered Pro-Israeli/Kahanist Glass Ceiling

    The Struggle of Judaism to free itself from Kahanism and it’s Messianic Settlers, ‘The Missed Pivot: Hillary’s Misfired Next Level’, ‘the CIS and the Israeli Generals Revolts’

    Mueller’s Windfall Checkmate, ‘Connected Trump/Netanyahu/Kushner Cases’, ‘Mueller’s 2nd Bite at Big Zion’

    The La Brea Tarpit of Kahanism and Jared Stuck to It

    The Social Revolution against Trump merging with Sociocultural American Revolution against Kahanist-dominant Israel Lobby/Israeli Apartheid

    The Great Wave of Kahangawa – heads up guys in the boats!

    Schisms, Fusions, Transitional States, and America’s Schism from Israel anticipated by Diaspora Jewry’s Schism from Israel, Israeli Judaism’s Schism from Diaspora Judaism, and other existential internal Israeli divisions

    Fusion of Messianic Settlers fused to Adelson fused to Bannon fused to Trump fused to Netanyahu…whoops

    ‘Getting Seen pushing America into Clean Break Wars – Netanyahu’s Royal Discomfiting of the Pooch’ – Bibi’s catastrophic surfacing/exposure of 30 yrs of prime Israeli/AIPAC Clean Break Strategy as ‘Mr Iran’ melts down

    The Successful 2nd American Revolution, the Obama Revolution over Kahanism, a ‘Club of 2’

    Please visit/view daily headlines at TimesofIsrael.com and Haaretz.com leading up to talk- if possible
    ==

    next in series;
    ‘Netanyahu’s Putsch over the Iran Deal and UN 2334 at the heart of Trump’s Impeachment’, and ‘Obama’s Successful 2nd American Revolution over Kahanism’

    Amongst many other things, on this day I’m thankful that I saw the Kahanist Avocado on Morning Joe (Richard Haas) say he now has ‘No Strategy’ after facing the double catastrophic news that
    1- Trump and Putin decided not to have Trump help the Clean Break Drive launch into Syria, and ALSO
    -that Mueller is now focusing on the Jared-Netanyahu conspiracy to subvert UN 2334. Voila, CHECKMATE ISRAEL AND THE ISRAEL LOBBY

    Courage is contagious….

    Tzipi Hotovely is a Kahanist and a Kahanist is a Jewish H——ite, according to Encyclopedia Judaica
    An American Kahanist Fascist State, a police state serving the Kahanist ideology, is what made Netanyahu tick

    • Citizen
      November 24, 2017, 2:37 am

      RE: “‘Mueller’s Windfall Checkmate, ‘Connected Trump/Netanyahu/Kushner Cases’, ‘Mueller’s 2nd Bite at Big Zion’” You lose speed when you do the spectacular Cobra–I hope Mueller is up to the challenge–also, it won’t be shown on TV news/infotainment shows, so no crowd will see it.

  9. Marnie
    November 24, 2017, 12:11 am

    I read hotovely’s screed and am struck by the envy she has for american jews simply because they’re american and most of them only american. american jews aren’t ‘making aliyah’ as they’d hoped. Why? Because america is their home, has been their home for generations. ‘Terror attacks’ have had little impact on them. The same can be said for here. Israelis are basically chickenshits, waiting for the shit to hit the fan. That says a child’s sense of guilt to me. You do something very naughty and are paranoid as hell, waiting for mom or dad to come down on you but sometimes or a lot of the times they don’t. I never had parents like that myself. I’ve come to the conclusion that israeli parents allow or even encourage their children to get away with murder and they do, with the president’s and prime minister’s approval. I digress. My feeling after reading this snark from tzipi was that she, like most israelis, envy americans and resent the fact that american jews are just not that into the ol’ blue and white anymore.

  10. DaBakr
    November 24, 2017, 12:26 am

    I don’t know if anybody took a poll but anecdotally, I know very few American Jews, including a few with children enlisted in the IDF, who weren’t and aren’t insulted by this comment in the least. In fact many think it makes perfect sense. Perhaps it’s the far left wing fringe who are already anti Zionist or leaning anti-israel finally have something to whine about that got the attention of Israeli leaders.,(though why she was admonished, I have no clue)

    • Citizen
      November 24, 2017, 8:35 am

      How many do you know personally who have kids serving in the US Army or Marine Corps? Just asking.

      • DaBakr
        November 25, 2017, 11:48 pm

        @c

        i would wager I know a hell of a lot more US vets , including family, army, navy and air force serving in five different theaters of combat , ww2-afghanistan then you mr. “just asking”

    • Misterioso
      November 24, 2017, 12:25 pm

      The “bloom” is off Zionism’s “rose.” No surprise!!

      “Support for Israel among American Jewish college students is in decline”
      Times of Israel, June 21/17:
      http://www.timesofisrael.com/devastating-survey-shows-huge-loss-of-israel-support-among-jewish-college-students/

      http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.806869
      EXCERPT:
      “More Israelis Left Israel Than Moved Back in Six Year Record. 16,700 left and 8,500 came back in 2015, in first year since 2009 that more Israelis exited than returned.” By Lior Dattel. Aug 15, 2017, Haaretz.

      Why Do A Third of Israelis Want To Leave The Country?
      The Forward, March 22, 2017 By Naomi Zeveloff
      “A third of Jewish Israelis would leave the country if they could, according to a poll conducted by Masa Israeli, a group looking at the divisions of Jewish society in Israel.
      “It found that secular Jews were the most likely to want to emigrate, with 36% saying they would leave the country if they could. Orthodox Jews were the least likely to want to emigrate; only 7% said they would leave. The poll, which was reported by the Walla! news site, found that while 44% of secular Jewish Israelis identify as Israelis foremost, 83% of traditional and 90% of religious Jewish Israelis identify as Jews foremost.
      “The poll was conducted ahead of a conference called the “Israeli Journey to Change” in the Knesset which is looking for common ground in Israel.
      “ ‘The survey data indicates a problem with a sense of identity, connection and belonging to the people, to the land and to the state among a growing part of society in Israel and that reality already has created a rift and split in all of Israeli society,’ said Masa Israeli director, Uri Cohen.”

      “Support for Israel on Campus Drops by ‘Devastating’ 27%: Study” – The Forward, June 21/17
      “The Brand Israel Group, a coalition of volunteer advertising and marketing specialists, has released a survey that shows a significant decrease in Israel’s approval rating among Americans.
      “’The future of America no longer believe that Israel shares their values. This is huge! Devastating,’ Fern Oppenheim, a co-founder of BIG, told The Times of Israel. While approval of Israel among American college students dropped 27% between the group’s 2010 and 2016 surveys, Israel’s approval rating among all Americans dropped 14 points, from 76% to 62%.”

      Furthermore, regarding the USA: http://forward.com/news/ national/376097/study-israel- losing-support-among- democrats-minorities- millennials/ The Forward July 2, 2017
      ”Study: Israel Losing Support Among Democrats, Minorities, Millennials ‘It appears that the more Americans learn about Israel, the less they like it.’”

      • Citizen
        November 24, 2017, 4:24 pm

        Duh, and they are learning about the real Israel despite the US mainstream media, which has totally ignored its job to inform consent of US Public,.

  11. Jackdaw
    November 24, 2017, 3:48 am

    “Jews being lazy, privileged, unpatriotic and all the rest of it. ”

    Hotovely never said anything remotely like that. That’s is only Jonathan’s sick projections.

    What a vile thing he his to say that.

    I’m an American Jew and I don’t feel that slightest bit put off by what Hotovely said. What she said, is perfectly accurate.

    • Citizen
      November 24, 2017, 8:37 am

      @ Jackdaw

      I agree, based on my personal experience as a US Army grunt. Then again, I’m not Jewish.

      • Jackdaw
        November 24, 2017, 12:38 pm

        @Citizen

        Well. I am Jewish and I lived in the United States for over 50 years. I know from life experience, and from friends in the military, that Jews are under represented.

        Only anti-Semites, and Jonathan Ofir, translate this fact into ‘unpatriotic’.

        And thank you, Citizen, for your service. I would like to have heard about your personal experiences in the military.

      • Citizen
        November 24, 2017, 4:29 pm

        @ Jackdaw
        I.m s
        Somebody has to be “cannon fodder”, right? I am so glad its my family,not yours.

      • CigarGod
        November 25, 2017, 11:29 am

        Jack: So you have a certain special skill that allows you to keep score of all the Jews in the military…based on Jews you and friends have met…and not met…and you keep a running tally of their representation?

        You sound like you might be Trumps long lost brother.

      • Mooser
        November 25, 2017, 1:40 pm

        “Well. I am Jewish and I lived in the United States for over 50 years..”

        Always a good idea not to make alley-oops until you’re well past military age. Serving in the IDF? Why, that’s such a low disgusting task they don’t even draft Arab-Israelis.
        Getting drafted into the IDF? That’s for sabras.

    • Mooser
      November 24, 2017, 1:57 pm

      “Hotovely never said anything remotely like that. That’s is only Jonathan’s sick projections.”

      And every time you submit a correct transcript of Ms. Hotnlovely’s remarks, the Moderators delete it.

      “I’m an American Jew”

      “I live in Israel, near the coast” “I live in Israel” “I don’t live in a city. I live in a village. That village is in Israel.” “I live in Saviyon, Israel.”

      • Jackdaw
        November 24, 2017, 5:01 pm

        @Souless Stalker Who Needs a Store Bought Mail Order Bride For Companionship

        I lived in the US for 55 years. I made Aliyah five years ago.

        I’m a Jew. I’m an American, and I’m proud.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 24, 2017, 6:08 pm

        I lived in the US for 55 years. I made Aliyah five years ago.

        I’m a Jew. I’m an American, and I’m proud.

        interesting you don’t reference yourself as an israeli.

      • gamal
        November 24, 2017, 7:32 pm

        “Saviyon” is that spelling correct?

      • eljay
        November 24, 2017, 8:39 pm

        || Annie Robbins: … interesting you don’t reference yourself as an israeli. ||

        He’s keeping his options open in case he one day decides that he’d prefer to be an ancient person of Judah somewhere other than in his ancient and eternal homeland.

      • oldgeezer
        November 24, 2017, 9:03 pm

        @annie

        Why should he refer to himself otherwise. Israel is his perk and privilege. Aplace where he can trod upon the necks of POC and not just be equal to others. The US is his actual country and his bolt hole should things go south.

      • RoHa
        November 24, 2017, 9:10 pm

        What are you proud of?

        Being an American? I suspect that was just an accident of birth, not an achievement.

        Being a Jew? If that was another accident of birth, again no reason to be proud.

        Making Aliyah? That is a reason for shame.

      • Marnie
        November 25, 2017, 4:35 am

        “I’m a Jew. I’m an American, and I’m proud.”

        Of what FFS?

      • Mooser
        November 25, 2017, 12:50 pm

        “Saviyon” is that spelling correct?”

        “gamal”, I am pretty sure he intended it not to be.

      • John O
        November 26, 2017, 6:59 am

        @gamal and Mooser

        I’ve had this discussion with Jackdaw before. I believe it’s Savyon.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savyon

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2017, 12:15 pm

        So basically “Jackdaw” you retired to Israel. You left your country for your country’s good, one step ahead of which long arm? And let there be no moaning at the bar when you put to sea.

      • John O
        November 26, 2017, 2:20 pm

        @Mooser

        Nice Tennyson quote, Mooser.

        Nothing to do with anything else, but here’s a great setting of “Crossing the bar”:

      • RoHa
        November 26, 2017, 7:40 pm

        If Jackdaw regularly bought rounds, I think a bit of moaning at the bar would be justifiable.

        (Two quotes. Tennyson and “a Gentleman of Leicester”, possibly Henry Carter.

        http://www.australianculture.org/prologue-true-patriots-all-1801/ )

      • Mooser
        November 27, 2017, 1:56 pm

        “(Two quotes. Tennyson and “a Gentleman of Leicester”, possibly Henry Carter.”

        Busted again! I should have known better. A guy who lives in a Wodehouse shouldn’t play with matches.

  12. Citizen
    November 24, 2017, 8:39 am

    I notice all my comments I made earlier today are here, except for the one detailing my personal experience as a US Army soldier in combat units over a period of three years during the time US still had conscription.

    • Citizen
      November 24, 2017, 4:33 pm

      Gee, nobody’s interested? Poor me.

      • oldgeezer
        November 24, 2017, 9:02 pm

        I am!

      • Mooser
        November 25, 2017, 12:52 pm

        “Gee, nobody’s interested? Poor me.”

        Well, just keep your eye on the networks, and the major movie studios.

    • Annie Robbins
      November 27, 2017, 1:15 pm

      that does seem strange citizen. i guess someone didn’t like the implications of it.

  13. Iris Keltz
    November 24, 2017, 9:17 am

    Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely is partially correct. For many American-Jews, Israel is Plan B. We live in a pluralistic democracy where there is no “official religion”. And yes, American Jews have done and continue to do quite well here. In case the US decides to throw the Jews out, we will all have a place to go–to the Jewish state. Obviously, Plan B is not very practical. American Jews are quite comfortable in a secular democracy.

    • Mooser
      November 26, 2017, 12:22 pm

      ” In case the US decides to throw the Jews out”

      And how would “the US” know who, exactly “the Jews” are, in order to throw them out?

      I mean, look, if the ICE (those bastards) rounded up every Jewish person in Temple on a Saturday morning, what percentage would they get? And some of those might be Unitarian-Universalists, slumming.

  14. biggerjake
    November 24, 2017, 9:30 am

    Try as I might, I just can seem to understand what it is to be a Jew… or at least the Jew that Hotovely references:

    “People that never send their children to fight for their country– most of the Jews don’t have children serving as soldiers, going to the Marines, going to Afghanistan, or to Iraq. Most of them are having quite convenient lives. They don’t feel how it feels to be attacked by rockets, and I think part of it is to actually experience what Israel is dealing with on a daily basis”

    No one I know of makes this kind of statement about Catholics or Protestants or Jehovah Witnesses. Oh I know… “Jews are a race.” Or at least that’s what the Zionists want you to believe, ignoring the DNA evidence and the basic fact that race is a social construct and a meaningless one at that.

    I’m beginning to think that Hotovely and company need this ongoing conflict with the Palestinians to continue forever because without some kind of conflict the idea of a “Jewish state” (whatever that is) begins to disappear.

    She says: I think for me the only way to make sure that Jews care or have meaning is by having strong Israel and strong Jewish identity. I think unfortunately American Jews are losing it bigtime. I see the numbers, I’m in the Foreign Ministry– 80 percent of American Jews assimilate. This is something we all should be concerned in. Without Jewish identity and without connection to Israel, this amazing Jewry will be lost. I really think this is the tragedy of the Jewish world.

    Are they a Jew first and a person second? Surely in her mind they must be Jews first and Americans second or third or further down the line… If a Jew is born in America do they have to assimilate to become an American? What about Chomsky and Finkelstein? Are they assimilated and therefore not real Jews?

    It always amazes me when an otherwise seemingly intelligent person like Hotovely is incapable of brutally honest critical thinking because their religion has so clouded their mind they can no longer see with their own eyes…

    • eljay
      November 24, 2017, 10:07 am

      Zionists assert that Jewish is some sort of profound / ethereal / fundamental / exceptional / inescapable essence when, really, it seems to be just two simple things:
      – a religion-based identity (acquired by either undergoing a religious conversion to Judaism or being descended from someone who underwent a religious conversion to Judaism); and
      – a choice (one can choose to be/come Jewish and one can choose not to be/come Jewish).

      It must give Zionists nightmares to know that Jewish is so…ordinary.

      • Citizen
        November 24, 2017, 4:36 pm

        Most Jews agree it your mother is jewish, so are you.

      • Mooser
        November 25, 2017, 1:04 pm

        “Most Jews agree it your mother is jewish, so are you.”

        Some people are so lucky. For a long time, my Mom wouldn’t even admit I was hers.

    • Citizen
      November 24, 2017, 2:24 pm

      The glaring difference is clear: To be an American citizen entitles anyone to have the full range of civil and human rights. To be an Israeli citizen entitles a denizen of Israel to be either a Jew, entitled to the same fully equal rights both de facto and de jure as any American has in USA, but the 20% of non-Jews have second class citizenship in Israel by virtue of over 50 discriminatory laws, and, of course, the non-Jews living in the occupied territories are under Jewish Israeli military law. The Israeli highest court has said this is kosher. But it’s not a reflection of American values despite US politicians constantly telling the US public the two countries have the same “Judeo-Christian values.”

      • Jack Green
        November 24, 2017, 8:29 pm

        Citizen

        Arab Israelis are exempt from the draft which is a bigger advantage than those 50 laws combined.

      • CigarGod
        November 25, 2017, 11:57 am

        Jack…My Hasbara Hero!
        The breakdown.
        Can I see how you break down the 50 laws and your scoring?
        So glad you have a scientific mind and don’t just throw out wild statements like the rest of the guys.

      • Mooser
        November 25, 2017, 1:48 pm

        “Arab Israelis are exempt from the draft which is a bigger advantage than those 50 laws combined.”

        Yes, IDF service is such a low task, and carries no advantage in Israeli society. That’s why they only make sabras do it.

    • Mooser
      November 24, 2017, 3:53 pm

      “It always amazes me when an otherwise seemingly intelligent person like Hotovely is incapable of brutally honest critical thinking because their religion has so clouded their mind they can no longer see with their own eyes…”

      Yes, because religion has clouded her eyes, Ms. Hotnlovely remains doggedly convinced that persuasion will be adequate to motivate American Jews into doing what needs to be done.
      But at some point clear thinking must replace sentimentality, and Ms. Hotnlovely will realize that only clear orders detailing American Jewish obligations, and featuring stiff penalties for non-compliance, will get the job done.

      • Citizen
        November 24, 2017, 4:39 pm

        Sorry , I like Mooser , but I have no awareness of what Mooser mean here

  15. Steve Grover
    November 24, 2017, 12:24 pm

    “But even I don’t remember what it’s like to not have a Jewish state; I’m 45. And if I don’t remember, Hotovely certainly doesn’t – she’ll be turning 39 soon.”

    Thank G-d I don’t remember what it is like to not have the Jewish State of Israel!!!!!!!!!!!
    12 years before I was born we didn’t have the miracle of the Jewish State of Israel and just 15 years before I was born they got done murdering 6 Million of us.
    The Jewish State of Israel keeps getting better and better year to year! A Homeland for the Jewish people for generations to come!

    • James North
      November 24, 2017, 2:57 pm

      Mooser: Did you wake your sock puppet up the day after #Thanksgiving?

      • Mooser
        November 24, 2017, 3:40 pm

        “Mooser: Did you wake your sock puppet up the day after #Thanksgiving?”

        Sorry. The tryptophan got to me.

    • Marnie
      November 25, 2017, 4:41 am

      Reminds me of something Steverino – maybe it’s because of the abundance of !!!

      • just
        November 25, 2017, 3:10 pm

        omg, Marnie!

        That’s perfect. rotflmao… (also had to wipe my screen because of the coffee…)

        I’m not sure that I’ve told you how much I appreciate your comments here.

        I do.

  16. MalcolmLeftly
    November 24, 2017, 9:58 pm

    given their “80 percent” assimilation rate and growing indifference to Israel.

    80 %, Doesn’t that sound ridiculously high?

    • Mooser
      November 25, 2017, 1:15 pm

      “80 %, Doesn’t that sound ridiculously high?”

      No, it’s quite low. I’d be very surprised if 20% of Jews in the US held no citizenship, and were not included under the Bill or Rights.

      But again, I invite anybody to tell me what an un-assimilated American Jew looks like, and what his legal status is.
      Now, being willing, say, to break US laws and contribute to settlements, or thinking first of Israel’s advantage, well, that has another name, I don’t think they call that being “un-assimilated.”

      The problem isn’t Jews being “un-assimlated”. The problem is how some American Jews decided to use the assimilation freely given to us.

      • biggerjake
        November 26, 2017, 10:23 am

        Mooser you should write a book.

        Who else can go from brilliant sarcasm to incisive commentary without missing a beat?

        Thank you for always making me think…

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2017, 12:28 pm

        Thank you “biggerjake”.

  17. [email protected]
    November 25, 2017, 9:44 pm

    The statistics are as follows according to PBS, Jews in America, by the numbers, published Feb 21st, 2017. Jews are 5.3 million adult Americans or 2.2%. Their numbers are 1/3 or 0.33% of the armed forces. So many have commented on what this means without any numerical evidence which is easily obtained. Please carry on folks as to the meaning to all this but my two cents is verifiable facts.

  18. Ossinev
    November 26, 2017, 6:42 am

    “Hotoveli has said unabashedly in the past that “this land is ours – all of it is ours.”

    • MHughes976
      November 26, 2017, 9:13 am

      Any Bible-influenced form of Z would reach the conclusion that the whole river-sea area, plus quite a bit more, belongs to Israel.

  19. Maghlawatan
    November 26, 2017, 10:19 am

    Israel has launched 7 wars against Lebanon since 1947. The country is drenched in violence.
    American Jews don’t kill to order. Zionism is a catastrophe

    • echinococcus
      November 26, 2017, 4:13 pm

      Maghlaetc.

      American Jews don’t kill to order…

      except the very many thousands who are in the killing business in the Zionist entity, add those very many who are gainfully employed at it in the States (look up the States and killing, btw.)

      Really, Watan, what planet do you live on?

  20. JLewisDickerson
    November 26, 2017, 2:51 pm

    RE: “People that never send their children to fight for their country– most of the Jews don’t have children serving as soldiers, going to the Marines, going to Afghanistan, or to Iraq. Most of them are having quite convenient lives.” ~ Israel’s Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely

    MY COMMENT: “Convenient?” “Convenient?” Con-VEEN-ient! That sounds familiar. Where have heard that before? Where, oh where? I don’t believe it was Satan. Was it the ‘Gap Girls’, perhaps? No I don’t believe so, it was an older, more matronly woman. An incredibly judgmental lady who was exceptionally full of herself. Whenever she thought she had scored a point in an attack on one of her inferiors, she liked to rub it in by squealing: “Well, isn’t that special? How Con-VEEN-ient!”

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