Palestinian officials say, Trump ‘destroyed’ the two-state solution

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President Donald Trump officially recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel this afternoon in a much anticipated speech at the White House, followed by condemnations from Palestinian leaders who said Trump is unfit to be a peace broker and effectively killed the two-state solution.  

“While previous presidents have made this a major campaign promise, they failed to deliver,” Trump told reporters, “I am delivering. I’ve judged this course of action to be in the best interest of the United States of America and the pursuit of peace between Israel and the Palestinians.”

Trump called recognizing Jerusalem as the capital is a “a long overdue step,” adding, “it is also the right thing to do.”

The U.S. embassy will be relocated to Jerusalem, Trump said. “This will immediately begin the process of hiring architects, engineers and planners, so that a new embassy, when completed, will be a magnificent tribute to peace,” he explained.

Palestinian leaders renounced the move.

Speaking in Ramallah Saeb Erekat, a former senior Palestinian negotiator, told reporters, “I think President Trump tonight disqualified the United States of America to play any role in any peace process.”

“Unfortunately, president Trump just destroyed any possibility of a two-state [solution]. He has taken an action that recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, this is in total contradiction of an agreement signed between Palestinian officials and Israelis,” he continued. 

Erekat did not indicate if  the Palestinians would not longer continue with Trump administration’s efforts to seek a peace deal.

Ayman Odeh, the leader of the Joint List party released a statement, citing “ignorance and arrogance” on the part of Trump,

“Trump is not interested in the fate of Israelis, and certainly not in the fate of Palestinians. His speech this evening was a combination of ignorance and arrogance, with complete disregard for its implications. Today Trump threw a match on the Middle East, and the price will be paid by both nations. Trump’s United States officially announced today that it is part of the occupying power, and therefore cannot serve as a broker for talks between Israelis and Palestinians, in any sense. The Palestinian people, along with Israelis working toward peace, will continue their courageous struggle until the occupation ends and a true peace is established.”

In Washington the Arab American Institute President’s James Zogby said,

“Listening to President Trump’s announcement regarding Jerusalem was profoundly disturbing. It’s a devastating blow: to Muslims and Christians living under harsh Israeli rule in occupied Jerusalem; to Arab and Muslim sensitivities; and to U.S. relations with our Arab allies. It also damages U.S. leadership worldwide, since we have now broken ranks with the E.U. and the rest of the international community. Trump is playing with fire and the consequences will be grave. It was especially troubling to hear the President announcing measures that are bound to provoke and incite violence while at the same time absurdly preaching non-violence and peace.”

Conversely, Israeli leaders applauded the announced embassy move and defended it a means to advance peace.

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said,

“The President’s decision is an important step towards peace, for there is no peace that doesn’t include Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel. I share President Trump’s commitment to advancing peace between Israel and all of our neighbors, including the Palestinians. And we will continue to work with the President and his team to make that dream of peace come true.”

President Reuven Rivlin said in a statement,

“The recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and the relocation of all embassies to the city, is a landmark in the recognition of the right of the Jewish people to our land, and a milestone on our road to peace – peace for all the residents of Jerusalem, and the whole region.”

About Allison Deger

Allison Deger is the Assistant Editor of Mondoweiss.net. Follow her on twitter at @allissoncd.

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94 Responses

  1. Nevada Ned
    December 6, 2017, 5:42 pm

    Quoted in The Guardian, Rashid Khalidi (Prof at Columbia) said “Trump’s error on Jerusalem is a disaster for the Arab world, and for the US”

    link

    • Maghlawatan
      December 7, 2017, 4:43 am

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/06/trump-jerusalem-disaster-arab-world-israel

      The Zionist narrative of an exclusively Jewish city is bullshit. Trump.is a dangerous dementia addled narcissist . Zionist elite money is poisonous .

      • Jack Green
        December 7, 2017, 12:03 pm

        Zionism doesn’t require an exclusively Jewish city.

      • Maghlawatan
        December 7, 2017, 3:54 pm

        Jack
        Dont bother. The first time I went from West Jerusalem to all quds I was shocked. You can see the discrimination in the state of the roads.
        Israel is a mess. It is a very sad way for a religion to die.

      • Talkback
        December 11, 2017, 9:02 am

        Jack Green: “Zionism doesn’t require an exclusively Jewish city.”

        Of course not. It only needs to control it while violating international and human rights law. Even if there was a Jewish minority. That’s the Zionist way.

  2. echinococcus
    December 6, 2017, 9:07 pm

    That’s all they have to say? Their Bantustan dream is “destroyed”!
    What is any statement by a traitor “administration” worth, anyway?

    • Maghlawatan
      December 7, 2017, 4:44 am

      What would you have done? What is your advice for partners of alcoholics?

      • echinococcus
        December 7, 2017, 5:53 pm

        See, I’m not part of a traitor puppet administration –no appetite for the gallows. I’m not even Palestinian. Alcoholics have nothing to do in this story qua alcoholics (as usual with Watan.)

        So they’re wailing after a lost two-state nonsense –meaning they really really want to give away their children’s land and sovereignty –all these years, all these lives wasted.

      • Maghlawatan
        December 9, 2017, 12:19 am

        What should they have done ?

  3. Hans-Micael
    December 6, 2017, 11:34 pm

    Washington and the Dotard Trump have given a 9/11 call to the muslim world – Erdogan called it a red line…. This is a gift to ISIS, Al-qaida, Hamas, Boko Haram and all extremists in the muslim world… In fact this crime against international law will become the most anti-semitic act by any western leader since A. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf!

    • Tuyzentfloot
      December 7, 2017, 9:53 am

      In fact this crime against international law will become the most anti-semitic act by any western leader since A. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf!

      Oh, he’s done worse things than writing that book you know.

  4. Marnie
    December 6, 2017, 11:41 pm

    “Speaking in Ramallah Saeb Erekat, a former senior Palestinian negotiator, told reporters, “I think President Trump tonight disqualified the United States of America to play any role in any peace process.”

    The u.s. has never done anything than defend the whims of the zionist state. It is a partner in crime and always has been.

    tRUMP’s sniffing and gesticulating his way through his speech, with the VP, former Jonny Quest star Race Bannon (steve bannon’s older brother) behind him, does nothing more than confirm the cartoon that is his presidency.

    Once again, the hopes and aspirations of palestinians are ignored. Is it only because the zionist cause has incredibly deep pockets? Or has so much dope on u.s. presidents and politicians that a golden shower looks more like a golden parachute? Shame.

  5. Emet
    December 7, 2017, 1:24 am

    Did anyone believe a deal between the Arabs and Israel would have Israel leave Jerusalem? Jerusalem has been the capital of the Jewish people for 3,000 years and nothing will every change this. The reaction to Trump’s move just shows how unwilling the Palestinians are to accept that there is also a place for a Jewish State. And so they continue to miss opportunities for real peace. There will never be a 2-state solution if the Palestinians continue to believe that Israel can and should be destroyed. Their actions show they are not ready to compromise with Israel and the support they get from alt-Left sites like this just keep them out there believing that Saladin is on his way to give them a state on a plate.

    • eljay
      December 7, 2017, 9:43 am

      || Emet: Did anyone believe a deal between the Arabs and Israel would have Israel leave Jerusalem? … ||

      A deal should liberate the Free City of Jerusalem from military occupation and remove from it all colonists.

      || … Jerusalem has been the capital of the Jewish people for 3,000 years and nothing will every change this. … ||

      Jerusalem has not been the capital of citizens of homelands all over the world who embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish. Not for 3000 years, not last century and not today. And nothing will every change this.

      • Jack Green
        December 7, 2017, 12:06 pm

        According to UN Resolution 181 (partition), after 10 years, there was to be a referendum in Jerusalem. Because the majority were Jews, Jerusalem would have become part of Israel.

        Therefore, it makes no sense to consider any part of Jerusalem as occupied territory.

      • oldgeezer
        December 9, 2017, 3:02 pm

        @jack

        They would be invited to express their opinion after 10 years. That’s a big difference.

      • Talkback
        December 10, 2017, 7:05 am

        Jack Green: “According to UN Resolution 181 (partition), after 10 years, there was to be a referendum in Jerusalem. Because the majority were Jews, Jerusalem would have become part of Israel.”

        According to the partition plan all Nonjews within partition borders would have been citizens of Israel. Even more within 67 lines. Zionism would have been simply voted off within 10 years.

        But as we all know Zionists only like majority ruling after they have achieved a Jewish majority either by mass infiltration under mandate/occuption, expulsion, denationalization, recovation of resident rights or other of their countless racist and inhumane Apartheid methods.

        Btw. What referendum legitimized the establishment of Israel?

        Jack Green: “Therefore, it makes no sense to consider any part of Jerusalem as occupied territory.”

        Wrong. Israel was declared within the borders recommended by the partition plan. In May 1948 it declared ANY territory outside of partition borders to be OUTSIDE of the territory of Israel. In August 1948 it explicitly declared Jerusalem to be occupied (by Israel). And in 1980 it explicitly and illegally annexed Jerusalem.

      • Mayhem
        December 10, 2017, 8:21 pm

        @eljay, the Jewish people have the right to decide that Jerusalem is as significant as it is. Furthermore Israelis have the right to decide where their capital shall be.

        Jews of all backgrounds are familiar with the phrase “le-shanah ha-ba’ah bi-Yerushalayim,” “Next Year in Jerusalem.” It makes two appearances annually in Jewish liturgy: at the conclusion of the Passover Seder and at the conclusion of the Ne’ilah service of Yom Kippur. The custom to say “Next year in Jerusalem” on Passover existed as early as the 13th century, and the phrase itself appears even earlier in piyyutim (liturgical poems) for both Passover and Yom Kippur.

        There is no question that West Jerusalem will remain a part of Israel. There was nothing that Trump said that negates any final status decisions regarding Jerusalem and a Palestinian state.

        The Muslim connection to Jerusalem is built on denial of Jewish heritage, religion and historical entitlement to Jerusalem.

        The Palestinians are the ones responsible for the failure of the two-state solution with Arab opposition to the presence of Israel as a sovereign state going back to 1948 with the foreboding signs for the continuing conflict having been well-entrenched within Islam long long before that.

      • Mooser
        December 10, 2017, 10:40 pm

        “Jews of all backgrounds are familiar with the saying…”

        “Afn gonif brennt das hittel” (A thief’s hat burns) and

        “Er macht zack nisht visindicht” (He pretends he doesn’t know he is doing something wrong.) or

        ” Ich hob mir fer pacht” – (I have you in my pocket. I know you for what you are.)

        We got lot’s of sayings.

      • eljay
        December 11, 2017, 7:27 am

        || Mayhem: @eljay, the Jewish people have the right to decide that Jerusalem is as significant as it is. … ||

        Jews can consider Jerusalem to be as significant as they like. It doesn’t give them a right to colonize it and make it part of a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        || … Furthermore Israelis have the right to decide where their capital shall be. … ||

        Israelis have no right to militarily occupy a Free City outside of their state’s / Partition borders, colonize it and then claim it as their capital.

        || … Jews of all backgrounds are familiar with the phrase “le-shanah ha-ba’ah bi-Yerushalayim,” “Next Year in Jerusalem.” … ||

        So what? You and most of the world are familiar with the phrase “Allahu akbar”. Your “logic” dictates that you and most of the world must now convert to Islam. I hope you enjoy your new faith.

      • Talkback
        December 11, 2017, 9:17 am

        Mayhem: “… the Jewish people have the right to decide that Jerusalem is as significant as it is …”

        Of course. They have also the right to decide whether they act like human beings or not.

        Mayhem: “Furthermore Israelis have the right to decide where their capital shall be.”

        Not in illegally annexed territory like Jerusalem or the Golan Hights.

        Mayhem: “The Muslim connection to Jerusalem is built on denial of Jewish heritage, religion and historical entitlement to Jerusalem.”

        Jerusalem was the first direction of Muslim prayer before it was changed to Mekka. And what gives Jews a”historical entitlement” to Jerusalem? Jews ruled over Jerusalem only a couple of hundred years thousands years ago.Your sense of entitlement is infantile and also racist.-

        Mayhem: The Palestinians are the ones responsible for the failure of the two-state solution with Arab opposition to the presence of Israel as a sovereign state going back to 1948 with the foreboding signs for the continuing conflict having been well-entrenched within Islam long long before that.”

        ROFL The Palestinians are not the ones responsible for Zionist settler colonialism. And the Palestine Papers have shown clearly that while Palestinians are willing to loose almost all of Palestine and their rights Zionists will never give up their goal of controlling all of Palestine with their Apartheid Junta no matter how much they are violating international and human rights law.

      • echinococcus
        December 11, 2017, 9:50 am

        Talkback,

        Mayhem: “Furthermore Israelis have the right to decide where their capital shall be.”

        Not in illegally annexed territory like Jerusalem or the Golan Hights

        Just so. Nor anywhere in Palestine mandate area –all of it being illegally annexed by the illegitimate new crusader state. As is the abusively English-given Palestinian citizenship of any early Zionist invaders past 1897.

      • MHughes976
        December 11, 2017, 2:05 pm

        The right ‘decide that Jerusalem is as significant as it is’ is a strange phrase. Ifthe significance of Jerusalem is an objective fact then no one has the right to decide it: everyone has a right to decide whether claims about it are justified or exaggerated. If it’s a matter of saying how significant Jerusalem is to each of us most of us would accept claims by Jewish people about their personal sentiments but would presumably extend the same courtesy to others, both when they claim and when they disclaim any strong attachment to the place. No one has the right to have others accept personal sentiment as proof of objective fact or moral obligation,

    • Talkback
      December 7, 2017, 11:25 am

      Emet: “Jerusalem has been the capital of the Jewish people for 3,000 years and nothing will every change this.”

      Rofl. How many years did Jews rule over Jerusalem in the history of this city? Do they have any exclusive rights to Jerusalem and why? Did they have any right to conquer it through war in the post Nazi era? And why did they declare it as “occupied” by Israel in August 1948?

      • Maghlawatan
        December 9, 2017, 1:36 am

        Who was the mayor of Jerusalem in 1500 ? Was he Jewish?

      • Talkback
        December 9, 2017, 6:18 am

        There is reason why Emet and other nutcases claim that “Jerusalem has been the capital of the Jewish PEOPLE for 3,000 years”.

        People don’t have a capitol. Countries have capitols. But Emet can’t say that Jerusalem has been the capitol of a Jewish STATE (or kingdom) for 3000 years. So he has to twist this into something that sounds historically correct and also suggest that this is lsomehow legitimate.

        What he is actually saying is that a couple of hundred years of Jewish ruling over Jerusalem legitimizes its (re-) conquest and illegal annexation in the post Nazi era of international law in allthough the acquisition of territory through war is inadmissable. And we all know that not a single inch of Israel was’t conquered through war and the expulsion of its nonjewish natives.

      • amigo
        December 9, 2017, 2:30 pm

        “According to UN Resolution 181 (partition), after 10 years, there was to be a referendum in Jerusalem. ” jacko green

        Do elaborate Jacko. as in credible link etc.

    • Misterioso
      December 7, 2017, 11:32 am

      @Emet

      It never ceases to amaze me how appallingly ignorant you and your ilk are of history.

      The Jebusite/Canaanites, ancestors of today’s Palestinians, who along with their ancestors have lived continuously between the River and the Sea for at least 15,000 years,** founded Jerusalem around 3000 BCE. It is estimated that the biblical Hebrews did not arrive until circa 1800 BCE. Originally known as Jebus, the first recorded reference to it as “Rushalimum” (or “Urussalim”) appears in Egyptian Execration Texts of the nineteenth century BCE, nearly 800 years before it is alleged King David was born.

      BTW, thus far, no archaeological evidence, or more importantly, writings of contemporaneous civilizations, have been found that prove Solomon or David actually existed. (Nor has any evidence been discovered to confirm that the Jewish exodus from Egypt ever occurred. )

      To quote the renowned Jewish Israeli writer/columnist, Uri Avnery: “[David and Solomon’s] existence is disproved, inter alia, by their total absence from the voluminous correspondence of Egyptian rulers and spies in the Land of Canaan.” (“A Curious National Home,” by Uri Avnery, May 13/17 –
      http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1494589093/)

      For the record, regarding West and East Jerusalem in 1947:

      The total population of West Jerusalem (the New City) and East Jerusalem (the Old City) and their environs was about 200,000 with a slight Arab majority. (Professor Walid Khalidi, Harvard, “Plan Dalet,” Journal of Palestine Studies, Autumn, 1988, p. 17)

      The total land area of West Jerusalem (the New City) in 1947 was 19,331 dunams (about 4,833 acres) of which 40 per cent was owned by Palestinian Muslims and Christians, 26.12 per cent by Jews and 13.86 per cent by others, including Christian communities. Government and municipal land made up 2.90 per cent and roads and railways 17.12 per cent.

      East Jerusalem (the Old City) consisted of 800 dunams (about 240 acres) of which five dunams (just over one acre) were Jewish owned and the remaining 795 dunams were owned by Palestinian Muslims and Christians. (“Assessing Palestinian Property in the City,” by Dalia Habash and Terry Rempel, Jerusalem 1948: The Arab Neighbourhoods and their Fate in the War, edited by Salim Tamari, The Institute of Jerusalem Studies, 1999, map, pp. 184-85)

      **
      http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fgene.2017.00087/full
      Front. Genet., 21 June 2017 | https://doi.org/10.3389/fgene.2017.00087

      The Origins of Ashkenaz, Ashkenazic Jews, and Yiddish

      Recent genetic samples from bones found in Palestine dating to the Epipaleolithic (20000-10500 BCE) showed remarkable resemblance to modern day Palestinians.

      EXCERPTS:
      “The non-Levantine origin of AJs [Ashkenazi Jews] is further supported by an ancient DNA analysis of six Natufians and a Levantine Neolithic (Lazaridis et al., 2016), some of the most likely Judaean progenitors (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2002; Frendo, 2004). In a principle component analysis (PCA), the ancient Levantines clustered predominantly with modern-day Palestinians and Bedouins and marginally overlapped with Arabian Jews, whereas AJs clustered away from Levantine individuals and adjacent to Neolithic Anatolians and Late Neolithic and Bronze Age Europeans.”

      “Overall, the combined results are in a strong agreement with the predictions of the Irano-Turko-Slavic hypothesis (Table 1) and rule out an ancient Levantine origin for AJs, which is predominant among modern-day Levantine populations (e.g., Bedouins and Palestinians). This is not surprising since Jews differed in cultural practices and norms (Sand, 2011) and tended to adopt local customs (Falk, 2006). Very little Palestinian Jewish culture survived outside of Palestine (Sand, 2009). For example, the folklore and folkways of the Jews in northern Europe is distinctly pre-Christian German (Patai, 1983) and Slavic in origin, which disappeared among the latter (Wexler, 1993, 2012).”

      • Jack Green
        December 7, 2017, 12:08 pm

        Today’s Palestinians are immigrants from many nations: “Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudaneese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, Tartars, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Bulgarians, Georgians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians, Copts, Maronites, and many others.”

        (DeHass, History, p. 258. John of Wurzburg list from Reinhold Rohricht edition, pp. 41, 69).

      • Maghlawatan
        December 7, 2017, 3:57 pm

        FFS.

        Why do Isghaelis speak Hebrew with a German accent?

        Because King Solomon led a bus tour to the Gothic lands and the bus broke down. And they liked it so much they stayed.

      • echinococcus
        December 7, 2017, 4:02 pm

        The Green thingy again

        Today’s Palestinians are immigrants from many nations

        Of course they are, duh. Like any peoples anywhere.

        Unlike the followers of the Zionist cult, though, they are one people, not a hodgepodge of criminal political adventurers from all possible nations.

      • gamal
        December 7, 2017, 4:04 pm

        you forgot the link to the danny pipes site you lifted that jacob de hass shit from, it is from Roberta (united states: as if one would have to ask)

        “More about the largely vacant desolate land of Israel “Palestine” in the 1800s – massive Arab immigration following Jews’ return = the true origin of the (today’s) so called “Palestinians” ”

        you complete bell end…love the (DeHass, History, p. 258. John of Wurzburg list from Reinhold Rohricht edition, pp. 41, 69), you are really so illiterate you don’t get what that means?

        http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/182419

      • Nathan
        December 7, 2017, 4:59 pm

        Misterioso – Uri Avnery whom you quote is really a very intelligent man, however he is not an expert in archeology (however, he does have a political ax to grind). So, although he claims that David and Solomon are absent from the archeological evidence, nevertheless his claim is false. David has been found in archeology (Solomon hasn’t).

        Anyway, in your comment, you seem quite busy with DNA. It’s all quite interesting, of course, but in the framework of a political debate it is entirely irrelevant. When a group of people succeeds in founding a state, that state is legitimate. The citizens of the state do not have to pass a blood test to gain their place in the community of nations. It might turn out that King Solomon is a fictional character, and it could be that the citizens of Israel are Late Neolithic and Bronze Age Martians – nevertheless, their state will still be there tomorrow morning.

      • Mooser
        December 7, 2017, 5:40 pm

        “nevertheless, their state will still be there tomorrow morning.”

        From the eternal Jewish State, to taking it one day at a time. That’s how Zionism delivers on its promises.

      • Mooser
        December 7, 2017, 5:50 pm

        ” This is not surprising since Jews differed in cultural practices and norms”

        And during the Passover holiday, eat only unlevantined bread.

      • MHughes976
        December 8, 2017, 4:22 am

        Avnery was expressing scepticism about the kingdoms of David and Solomon. The majority of those who study the subject probably think that there were kings to whom those names – or perhaps they were honorifics, since as names they are quite strange – belonged but also strongly doubt that the kingdom achieved the dominant, almost imperial status that is claimed for it. The name of the whole kingdom is hard to identify. Personal names of the time tend to be theophoric, relating the person to God – Solomon has a second name, Jedediah, ‘friend of God’, though it seems he was not often known by it.

      • Nathan
        December 8, 2017, 3:24 pm

        MHughes976 – There is nothing strange about the names of David and Solomon. Both names have meaning in Hebrew. You certainly are right that many names of the Biblical era are theophoric; however, there are plenty of names that are not theophoric. Rehoboam, Asa, Amon, Menasseh, Ahaz are a few examples of kings of Judah whose names are not theophoric. More importantly, since the “House of David” is mentioned in a 9th century BC Aramaic stele, it’s rather obvious that the name of David (and his having founded a dynasty) were common knowledge.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 8, 2017, 4:33 pm

        More importantly, since the “House of David” is mentioned in a 9th century BC Aramaic stele, it’s rather obvious that the name of David (and his having founded a dynasty) were common knowledge.

        re “(and his having founded a dynasty) …common knowledge” the tel dan inscription is not without controversy nathan, for 2 primary concerns. some scholars consider it a forgery.

        scholars have disputed the reference to David, due to the lack of a word divider between byt and dwd, and other translations have been proposed. The stele was not excavated in its primary context, but in its secondary use.[2]

        source links and more on that controversy here: http://mondoweiss.net/2017/07/spirit-zionism-network/#comment-885795

        and most sources writing about the stela at least reference this controversy, even when they don’t outright mention “forgery”. ie:

        https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-artifacts/artifacts-and-the-bible/the-tel-dan-inscription-the-first-historical-evidence-of-the-king-david-bible-story/

        The “House of David” inscription had its skeptics…who attempted to dismiss the “House of David” reading as implausible and even sensationalistic. In a famous BAR article, Philip Davies argued that the Hebrew term bytdwd referred to a specific place (akin to bytlhm for Bethlehem) rather than the ancestral dynasty of David.

        undoubtedly the question of the stele’s authenticity has been politicized, which doesn’t mean it isn’t real. it might be. but with so much riding on it being real, it’s hard to fathom there has not been pressure to confirm it time will tell.

        more here: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Tel_Dan_Stele.html

      • Mooser
        December 8, 2017, 5:05 pm

        ” it’s rather obvious that the name of David (and his having founded a dynasty) were common knowledge.”

        Heck, just mention the House of David around old 9th Century BC Aramy, and you were in like Flynn!

      • Nathan
        December 8, 2017, 5:44 pm

        Annie Robbins – The Tel-Dan inscription is for real. It was discovered in a real archeological excavation. It was a victory monument of a Damascus king who captured Dan (and set up the stone therein). Obviously, it was knocked down some years later, and it was used as a floor-tile. So, it’s true that it was discovered as part of a floor (i.e. in its secondary use), but it’s still a real archeological finding from the 9th century BC – even though it was knocked down by the Danites.

        There’s an inscription of Emperor Hadrian on the wall of the old city of Jerusalem, just to the south of the Al-Aqsa Mosque. This inscription is upside-down. Why? Well, it was a monument set up in Jerusalem by Hadrian after the Bar-Kokhva War. Later on, someone used it as building material (i.e. a stone in the wall), and it was placed in the wall upside-down. So, the inscription is located in a secondary location, and you might have to stand on your head in order to read it. Would your conclusion be that the inscription is, therefore, a forgery? Of course not. Similarly, a victory monument turned into a floor-tile still gives authentic information. The king from Damascus knew in the 9th century BC that there was a person named David who was the founder of a dynasty (the House of David).

        Is there some ideological or political problem that David was a real person? Well, anyway, when there is a name found in the Bible, and then that same name appears in an ancient inscription – then it’s quite clear that we’re dealing with a real person. Recently, the seal of King Hezekiah (the son of Ahaz, king of Judah) was discovered in Jerusalem. Both the father and son appear in the Book of Kings, and both names appear on the seal. So, it turns out that these kings of ancient Judah (and Israel) were real people.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 8, 2017, 9:17 pm

        The king from Damascus knew in the 9th century BC that there was a person named David who was the founder of a dynasty (the House of David).

        well, that is the theory if one accepts the authenticity of the stele and the interpretation of the stele. (except for the “founder of a dynasty” part, not sure the stele said that). as for secondary use, i am not an expert, so i will cite one:

        Aaron Demsky (2007), Reading Northwest Semitic Inscriptions, Near Eastern Archaeology 70/2. Quote: “The first thing to consider when examining an ancient inscription is whether it was discovered in context or not. It is obvious that a document purchased on the antiquities market is suspect. If it was found in an archeological site, one should note whether it was found in its primary context, as with the inscription of King Achish from Ekron, or in secondary use, as with the Tel Dan inscription. Of course texts that were found in an archaeological site, but not in a secure archaeological context present certain problems of exact dating, as with the Gezer Calendar.”

        now, this last bolded part is important. you say It was discovered in a real archeological excavation, yes, it was a “real” archeological excavation. but was it
        in a “a secure archaeological context”? i don’t know about that. it was discovered in 1993 but what about this:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_(ancient_city)

        In 1992, in order to tidy up the site for presentation to visitors, a heap of debris was removed which dated from the time of the Assyrian destruction of the city by Tiglath-Pileser III in 733/2 BCE. A hitherto unknown earlier gateway to the city was uncovered. The entrance complex led to a courtyard paved with stone with a low stone platform.

        so, the year before it was discovered, who removed the heap of debris? who uncovered the entrance complex in 1992 “in order to tidy up the site” for visitors? and was that “a secure archaeological context”. how many people were traipsing around there between the time it was ‘tidied up’ for visitors? that was only the year before. whenever there’s sooo much interest in a discovery like this, it up the stakes.

        Is there some ideological or political problem that David was a real person?

        I think a question more appropriate to ask might be — is there some ideological or political problem that David wasn’t a real person? and the answer to that is a big huge YES. and that should not factor into judgements of authenticity.

      • Mooser
        December 9, 2017, 11:28 am

        “— is there some ideological or political problem that David wasn’t a real person?”

        But Zionist Jews say he was, and believe David’s existence justifies, well, whatever.
        And when, I ask you, has the world ever not arranged itself according to Jewish beliefs? So you just get used to asking for things on that basis.

      • Nathan
        December 10, 2017, 11:09 am

        Annie Robbins – You are avoiding answering a very interesting question. I asked you if there is some political or ideological problem if David was a real person. You should be able to give an opinion on the issue. Instead of a simple “yes” or “no”, you prefer to ask the opposite question and to answer it as well. Anyway, I’d like to answer your question. No, there is no ideological or political problem if it would turn out that David was not an historic character. Now, I’d like to hear your answer to my question.

      • Mooser
        December 10, 2017, 10:47 pm

        “No, there is no ideological or political problem if it would turn out that David was not an historic character.” “Nathan”

        Exactly “Nathan”! Zionists have no problem lying to Jews, they have no problem taking advantage of Jewish ignorance, and multiplying Jewish problems.

        Thanks for making it plain. Whether “David” was real or not matters as little to Zionism as how many Jews there are.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 11, 2017, 1:05 am

        You are avoiding answering a very interesting question. I asked you if there is some political or ideological problem if David was a real person. You should be able to give an opinion on the issue.

        my thinking behind this is in bias towards considering biblical text as primarily based on myth and morals. your question puts the cart before the horse. you might as well ask if there is some political or ideological problem if the creationist theory was real. there are big debates about this issue. why do you think so much has been invested in proving this david and goliath stuff is real.

        so to answer your question, yes. there is a problem. the stakes are high. and i do not believe you when you say:

        No, there is no ideological or political problem if it would turn out that David was not an historic character

        for one thing, there would be a problem with this theory presented as fact:

        The Tel-Dan inscription is for real.

        a lot is riding on that. i think it’s speculative.

      • Mayhem
        December 11, 2017, 6:34 am

        @Misterioso, I didn’t have to read much of your diatribe before it was evident that the mud you were slinging was blowing back in your face.
        “The Jebusite/Canaanites, ancestors of today’s Palestinians” – absolute poppycock, refer Palestinians, Jebusites, and Evangelicals.

      • Nathan
        December 11, 2017, 7:21 am

        Annie Robbins – Actually, the “David and Goliath story” is, indeed, fiction. Of course, it should be added that claiming that the story is fictitious does NOT necessarily mean that the people mentioned in the story were not real people. I think that it’s obvious that the description of David’s kingdom “from the Euphrates River to the River of Egypt” is also fiction. But, still, all this doesn’t mean that there was no real David. The Tel-Dan stele mentions the “king of Israel and the king of the House of David”. So, we know that there was a kingdom of Israel, and we know that there was a dynasty founded by a man called David, even if the stele was found in a floor under a pile of rubbish. (The king of the House of David is the king of Judah).

        Anyway, there is no ideology or politics here. If future research proves that there was no Kingdom of Israel or there was no David, it wouldn’t make any difference in our world today. It’s just interesting academic research in the realm of the humanities. Therefore, I was surprised that you said that it would be a problem if turned out that David was a real person.

        Once upon a time, I was listening to a Palestinian tour-guide who took a group of visitors to Sebastia in the West Bank. When he presented to us the remains of an Iron Age palace, all he wanted to say was that a king had built this place. The tourists asked him which king and which kingdom. So, the tour-guide started to tell us that there were Canaanites here, and there were Assyrians and Babylonians and Greeks and Romans. It was so strange. Why doesn’t he just answer the question? What’s the problem? After the audience insisted, the tour-guide was willing to say that the king was Ahab, but he wouldn’t say the name of his kingdom. However, after some more insistence of the audience, he finally said that this was the palace of Ahab, the king of Israel. He really knew something about archeology and ancient history, but he really didn’t want to share it with us. It was all quite silly.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 12, 2017, 4:20 am

        we know that there was a dynasty founded by a man called David

        “we” don’t know it. you may think you know it.

        I was surprised that you said that it would be a problem if turned out that David was a real person.

        please do not twist my words. i said “for one thing, there would be a problem with this theory presented as fact”.

        claiming that the story is fictitious does NOT necessarily mean that the people mentioned in the story were not real people

        no it doesn’t. could he have really lived? sure. jesus could have really lived too. color me skeptical.

        Anyway, there is no ideology or politics here. If future research proves there was no Kingdom of Israel or there was no David, it wouldn’t make any difference in our world today. It’s just interesting academic research in the realm of the humanities.

        generally, academic researchers set about proving something exists prior to proving something doesn’t. i’m not sure those standards have been met. i think that’s why they are still digging around underneath al aqsa. either way, there’s a lot resting on this ideology, politically and otherwise.

        speaking of stories, once upon a time i was listening to this zionist tour guide, all he wanted to say was that palestinians had originally built jerusalem (ursalem) and centuries later european jews had colonized it. but he wouldn’t say it. so we pressed him and pressed him and he finally admitted it. he knew all along. He really knew something about archeology and ancient history, but he really didn’t want to share it with us. It was all quite silly. once upon a time, really. and there is no ideology or politics here. If future research proves different, so be it.

      • Talkback
        December 11, 2017, 9:19 am

        Jack Green: “Today’s Palestinians are immigrants from many nations: …”

        Today’s Israelis are, too. But who was a citizen of Palestine in 1948 and who wasn’t? The majority of Jews in Palestine weren’t.

      • oldgeezer
        December 11, 2017, 12:46 pm

        @mayhem

        Geeze you really want to pass off an article from meforum, an org founded by a raging raving racist like pipes, as if it was some sort of serious research or analysis?

        Science tells us a more clear story but regardless what may have existed thousands of years ago does not justify the crimes being perpetrated by Israel.

        Ashkenazi are europeans
        The genetics suggest many of the founding Ashkenazi women were actually converts from local European populations.

        https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

        The actual inhabitants of the area which include Muslims, Christians and Jews share as much as 93% of the dna with Caananites
        http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/07/ancient-dna-reveals-fate-mysterious-canaanites
        https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/canaanite-bible-ancient-dna-lebanon-genetics-archaeology/

      • Mayhem
        December 11, 2017, 7:18 pm

        @oldgeezer, heard of genetic fallacy? As it’s name suggests, the genetic fallacy results from attacking the source or origin of information, rather than the information itself. If you think about that for a second, the reason for the confusion becomes clear. By condemning the source in your attempt to counter my comment you have immediately lost the argument.

      • oldgeezer
        December 11, 2017, 8:09 pm

        @mayhem

        Nice try but no cigar. You posted a political diatribe not based on fact from a racist site. I’m actually surprised it’s allowed as I would think stormfront would not be linked to. meforum is no different than stormfront in any way.

        I not only didn’t lose but won as you didn’t bother to refute actual facts and science.

      • RoHa
        December 11, 2017, 9:04 pm

        Mayhem,

        Committing a fallacy does not automatically lose the argument. The conclusion of the fallacious reasoning may still be true.

        Oldgeezer is not committing the genetic fallacy. He does not say the claim is false, but rather that it is untrustworthy because it comes from a dodgy source. He rejects it , not because of its source, but because it conflicts with information from more respectable sources, and he cites those sources.

      • MHughes976
        December 12, 2017, 9:55 am

        It’s true that no question of political rights today depends on the question whether the United Monarchy of David and Solomon (perhaps Elhanan and Jedediah) really existed. However many attempts are made to support modern claims to political rights by theological arguments and what I consider to be bad theology is in turn supported by further arguments, this time of historical character, usually expressing an uncritical acceptance of certain elements in the Biblical account. This makes it important to keep up critical thinking on these matters

      • Mooser
        December 12, 2017, 12:22 pm

        “@oldgeezer, heard of genetic fallacy?”

        You bet we have heard of the genetic fallacy!! Why, the Zionists harp on that crap about “Jewish DNA” all the time.

      • Mayhem
        December 14, 2017, 5:38 am

        @oldgeezer, you are fishing to substantiate a link between the Palestinians and the Canaanites and the best you can do is report from articles that state there is high % of DNA matching with the Canaanites that has been found in the Lebanese population.
        Pray tell what that has to do with the ‘Palestinians’.

      • oldgeezer
        December 14, 2017, 8:01 pm

        @mayhem

        No mayhem that wasn’t actually my point. You may be trying to be acute but you are coming across as completely obtuse.

    • Talkback
      December 7, 2017, 11:41 am

      What Emet is trying to say is:

      It’s not Israel’s EXCLUSIVE and ILLEGAL claim to illegally annexed Jerusalem that shows an unwillingness to a two state solution peace and compromise, but the rejection of this ILLEGAL claim or the also ILLEGAL recognition of this claim.

      Sounds pretty dishonest and stupid.

    • Talkback
      December 11, 2017, 2:20 pm

      Emet: “There will never be a 2-state solution if the Palestinians continue to believe that Israel can and should be destroyed.”

      Twisting reality, again, Emet?

      The PLO has recognized Israel decades ago while “the” Jews show no sign of ever recognizing Palestine.

      So its always the same:

      Palestinians allegedly want to destroy Israel. Jews have been destroying Palestine since 1948.
      Palestinians allegedly want to drive Jews in the sea. Jews have been expelling more than million Palestinians and keeping them and millions of their descendants expelled since 1948.
      Palestinians allegedly want to murder Jews. Jews have been massacring Palestinians large scale since 1948.
      Palestinians allegedly want to control all hist. Palestine. Jews have been controlling all of it it since 1967 and have put under half a century of military law.
      Palestinians allegedly want to conquer all hist. Paletsine. Jews have allready conquered it.
      Palestinians don’t want to share Jerusalem. Jews have allready illegaly annexed it and call it undivided.

      And the list continues.

  6. Maghlawatan
    December 7, 2017, 4:57 am

    Jerusalem is a honeypot. It draws people into the open. For years diaspora Hebrews have said not to conflate jews and Israel. But nobody ever stood up to the thugs. There was no Dr Dre to tell jews to listen to their mother fuckin conscience

    https://youtu.be/Xbw_BxDwdjk

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trumps-jerusalem-declaration-draws-mixed-reactions-from-jewish-americans

    “President Trump. You Promised. You Delivered,” reads a full page advert prepared by the Republican Jewish Coalition (RJC) for Thursday’s New York Times. “History will honor you as one of Israel’s greatest friends.” The ad contains a photo of Trump, wearing a black kippah, placing his hand on the Western Wall in Jerusalem during a visit in May.

    Defiant Trump confirms US will recognise Jerusalem as capital of Israel

     

    Read more

    It says: “Time after time, President Trump has sent an unambiguous message to the world: the bond between the US and Israelis strong, and after eight years of the Obama Administration, the days of daylight between our nations are over.”

    Norm Coleman, national chairman of the RJC and former senator for Minnesota, said: “The president has delivered on another major campaign promise. President Trump is doing what he does so well: recognising the reality on the ground. No more false news – Jerusalem is Israel’s capital.”

    The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac) joined the praise. “Aipac has always supported American recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s undivided capital city, and we commend President Trump’s momentous announcement and decision to initiate relocating the US embassy there,” it said.

    “Importantly, relocating the embassy to Jerusalem does not in any way prejudge the outcome of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, to include establishing two states for two peoples and resolving Palestinian claims to the eastern portion of the city and the disposition of holy places. Rather, this announcement acknowledges that Jerusalem will continue to be Israel’s capital as part of any conceivable final status agreement.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-

    In London, the Jewish Board of Deputies president, Jonathan Arkush, welcomed Trump’s decision, saying it was bizarre that it should be seen as remarkable.

    “Jerusalem has been the spiritual centre of Jewish life for 3,000 years, since the time of King David,” he said. “Given that Jerusalem is in fact historically, presently and legally Israel’s capital, the decision by many countries not to formally recognise this has been an act of post-truth petulance.”

  7. Vera Gottlieb
    December 7, 2017, 9:58 am

    Destroying the two-state solution…which is exactly what israel has been aiming for.

  8. eljay
    December 7, 2017, 10:50 am

    … President Reuven Rivlin said in a statement,

    “The recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and the relocation of all embassies to the city, is a landmark in the recognition of the right of the Jewish people to our land … ”

    Geographic Palestine is not the “land” of all the people in the world – citizens of homelands all over the world – who choose to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish.

    The religion-based identity of Jewish does not comprise a right to a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in geographic Palestine.

    • Nathan
      December 8, 2017, 4:29 pm

      eljay – I wonder what is the meaning of “Geographic Palestine”. I’ve never heard of “Geographic India” or “Geographic Spain”. So, whenever there is a new term in use, it’s interesting to try and figure out what is the intention.

      I noticed that you used the term “religion-based identity of JEWISH”. This is not normal English, obviously. So, I wonder why a native English speaker would mess up such an easy concept. It seems to me that in correct English one would say “the religion-based identity of the Jews”. However, “the Jews” could also be understood as a people, and that would be problematic for you on the ideological level (peoples, after all, do found states). Is that the reason that you have changed the rules of English? Do you feel that the adjective “Jewish” (in place of the noun “Jews”) is helpful in avoiding the fact that the Jews are a people?

      Anyway, since you repeat so very often that Jewish identity is “religion-based”, I’m reminded of Shakespeare’s excellent phrase: “Methinks he doth protest too much”. You apparently do understand that there are many Jews in the world who define themselves as a people. Sadly for you, your approval is not a necessary component in the identity of others.

      • Mooser
        December 8, 2017, 5:20 pm

        “Sadly for you, your approval is not a necessary component in the identity of others.”

        Very true, since, as I’m sure you’ll agree, antisemitism had a big effect on us Jews. It was dis-like of us which was a big component in the identity of Jews. Or is all that of no account?

      • Nathan
        December 8, 2017, 6:03 pm

        Mooser – Maybe for you (and for many others) antisemitism is a component of your identity. You can tell us if you wish. And, still, there are many Jews who define themselves as a people. It’s nice to see that you agree with me that the approval of eljay (or others) is not a necessary component in matters of identity. (I’m not in need of others agreeing with me, but it was a rarity to read “Very true” in your response to me).

      • eljay
        December 8, 2017, 6:04 pm

        || Nathan: eljay – I wonder what is the meaning of “Geographic Palestine”. … ||

        No, you don’t wonder. You know what is the meaning of geographic Palestine.

        || … I noticed that you used the term “religion-based identity of JEWISH”. This is not normal English, obviously. So, I wonder why a native English speaker would mess up such an easy concept. … ||

        No, you don’t wonder. You know I didn’t mess anything up because i) it is normal English* and ii) you know that the identity of Jewish can only be acquired by:
        – undergoing a religious conversion to Judaism; or
        – being descended from someone who underwent a religious conversion to Judaism.

        (*Unless RoHa tells me it’s not.)

        || … You apparently do understand that there are many Jews in the world who define themselves as a people. … ||

        I do understand that and I have no objection to Jews identifying themselves as “a people” if that’s what they want. Hell, they can identify themselves as a civilization if that’s what they want (and some do).

        What you do understand – but refuse to accept – is that that identification does not grant Jews a right:
        – to a supremacist state of any kind; or
        – to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them.

        || … Sadly for you, your approval is not a necessary component in the identity of others. ||

        No sadness on my part – I’m well aware that my approval is not required for most things in this world.

      • Sibiriak
        December 8, 2017, 6:15 pm

        Nathan: … the term “religion-based identity of JEWISH”. This is not normal English, obviously.
        ——————————-

        Precise assertions are often expressed in unusual, carefully-crafted ways. Eljay’s formulation may be a bit awkward, but it is perfectly understandable.

        Personally, I might write, ” religion-based Jewish identity” — but the difference is trivial.

        Compare: religion-based identity of “Christian” // religion-based Christian identity.

        ——————————

        [Nathan:] It seems to me that in correct English one would say “the religion-based identity of the Jews”.

        That may be correct English, but it would be incorrect for what Eljay wants to say. It assumes the existence of “the Jews”, normally understood as a people or some kind of organic collective entity, something you know Eljay, rightly or wrongly, doesn’t wish to do.

      • Mooser
        December 8, 2017, 6:36 pm

        “I noticed that you used the term “religion-based identity of JEWISH”.”

        It’s very simple “Nathan”. In almost every country in the world (EXCEPT for Israel! ROFL!) “Jewish” or “Jew” is a religious identification entirely under the individual’s control. No “Jewish people” can tax him, order him around, draft him, or punish him (or her, of course)
        Neither will those countries take any orders from the “Jewish people” or Israel concerning the disposition of the Jews in that country.
        People needn’t disclose whether or not they are Jewish, and can switch the church of their choice twice a week. And if Judaism offers nothing but strife, hate embarrassment and expense, well, there’s a big back door to the tent.

        Your entire “Jewish peoplehood” is pretty much limited to control (to some extent) over the poor friers resident in Israel.
        Or Israel could petition the UN for sovereignty over the entire “Jewish people”.

      • Sibiriak
        December 8, 2017, 6:53 pm

        Nathan: You apparently do understand that there are many Jews in the world who define themselves as a people…
        ———————-

        Which isn’t to say that many Jews who define themselves as a people don’t include some religion-based notions in their self-definition, explicitly or implicitly.

      • Mooser
        December 8, 2017, 7:16 pm

        Anyway, it’s all academic now. Netanyahoo has discovered the real source of Zionist power. Actual Jews are unnecessary to the Zionist effort.

      • Mooser
        December 8, 2017, 7:42 pm

        ” Do you feel that the adjective “Jewish” (in place of the noun “Jews”) is helpful in avoiding the fact that the Jews are a people?”

        And it’s soooo much better to be “a people” than it is merely “people”.

        I’m sure Jewish people all over the world would prefer to be “a people” instead of just “people”. Why, I bet they are missing all the benefits and privileges of being “a people” right now!

      • MHughes976
        December 9, 2017, 5:22 pm

        ‘The lady doth protest too much, methinks’ – an elegant and ironic comment on excessive self-proclaimed commitment.
        It’s true that there are some people who regard themselves and are generally regarded as Jewish without reference to their personal religion but there is no significant number of people who are so regarded without reference to the religion of at least a great number of their ancestors. it may be said that this group form a people but I would be surprised if many British Jews do not consider that they belong to the British as well as the Jewish people – so the sense of ‘people’ here may not be very challenging, may mean little more than ‘group’. If it is chained that being part of the Jewish people = grouo of people who are Jewish confers special rights in Palestine I would deny it.

      • eljay
        December 9, 2017, 6:49 pm

        || Sibiriak: … It assumes the existence of “the Jews”, normally understood as a people or some kind of organic collective entity, something you know Eljay, rightly or wrongly, doesn’t wish to do. ||

        1. I thought it was considered anti-Semitic to refer to Jews collectively as “the Jews” because the term stripped Jews of their individuality and lumped them into an undifferentiated collective. Perhaps I’m mistaken. Actually, I must be, because Zionists refer to Jews as “the Jews” all the time.

        2. If – according to Nathan – my use of “the adjective “Jewish” (in place of the noun “Jews”)” is “helpful in avoiding the fact that the Jews are a people”, he may wish to explain why he has used the adjective “Jewish” numerous times in place of the noun “Jews”. Here are just a few examples from his Comments archive:

        ” … In the collective Jewish identity … ”
        (instead of “the collective identity of the Jews”)

        ” … (and the traditional Jewish narrative of exile and return) … ”
        (instead of “the traditional narrative of exile and return of the Jews”)

        ” … Mr Shulman’s “binational state” recognizes the Jewish nation … ”
        (instead of “recognizes the nation of the Jews”)

        ” … It’s interesting to note that Jewish nationality … ”
        (instead of “the nationality of the Jews”)

        I look forward to his explanation of why he “avoids the fact that the Jews are a people”.

      • Talkback
        December 10, 2017, 7:21 am

        Nathan: “Do you feel that the adjective “Jewish” (in place of the noun “Jews”) is helpful in avoiding the fact that the Jews are a people?”

        Define “people”.

      • MHughes976
        December 10, 2017, 11:28 am

        Interesting to see how far the definition permits a person to belong to no, or to more than one, people.
        I think it good to avoid anything that sounds like the Nazi usage ‘the Jew X’ – this makes the adjective preferable to the noun in many contexts. The Jewish people I know tend to say ‘I’m Jewish’ rather than ‘I’m a Jew’. I think this is because the indefinite article in this context has an alienating force: ‘He’s a German, a Russian’ sounds slightly hostile compared with ‘He’s German, Russian’.

      • Mooser
        December 10, 2017, 12:55 pm

        “Define “people”.”

        Oh, that’s easy! The Jewish People are a very special exclusive group, consisting of anybody who might send Israel a quarter or more. Along with an S.A.S.E. to send back your membership certificate.

        Other than that, there are no obligations.
        Unless “Nathan” can come up with some. But “Nathan” should make his ideas about the Jewish People comport with Netanyahoo’s.

  9. Kay24
    December 7, 2017, 10:51 am

    Apparently the Washingtonpost has an article saying that Trump has no clue to the consequences of this terrible decision, nor does he know a thing about how complicated this volatile situation is, and that he did this so “appear pro Israel”. A dumb reason.
    We have a mentally deranged man in the WH, and it is dangerous.

    • Marnie
      December 7, 2017, 1:27 pm

      To quote dear leader “NOBODY KNEW how difficult __________(fill in the blank) was going to be”.

      Couldn’t get over his snuffling throughout his entire verbal diarrhea, but apparently I was focused on the wrong thing.

      White House Solved Mystery of Donald Trump’s Slurred Speech—And …
      http://www.newsweek.com/white-house-claims-have-solved-mystery-donald-trumps-slurred...
      4 hours ago – President Donald Trump’s slurred words during a speech announcing his controversial decision to move the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem are being dismissed by the White House as the result of a dry throat. “His throat was dry. There’s nothing to it,” Raj Shah, White House spokesman, told NBC …

      Problem solved, the white house said so.

      • eljay
        December 7, 2017, 2:41 pm

        || Marnie: … Couldn’t get over his snuffling throughout his entire verbal diarrhea … ||

        My first thought was that he was either drunk or stoned.

      • Marnie
        December 7, 2017, 11:58 pm

        Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow……

  10. Misterioso
    December 7, 2017, 11:10 am

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/07/opinion/trump-jerusalem-capital-palestinian.html

    “Trump Is Making a Huge Mistake on Jerusalem” New York Times editorial

    By Dr. Hanan Ashrawi, Dec. 7/17

  11. Talkback
    December 7, 2017, 11:47 am

    It’s up to the Palestinians to achieve a majority in the General Assembly to ask the international court for an advisory opinon regarding the status of Jerusalem and the illegality of this recognition.

  12. Ossinev
    December 7, 2017, 1:39 pm

    Bitterly cold weather forecast here in the UK in the next couple of days. Time to put on the keffiyeh to keep out the cold and send out a message of warmth to Palestinians under the Zionist jackboot.

  13. Ossinev
    December 7, 2017, 1:45 pm

    “Given that Jerusalem is in fact historically, presently and legally Israel’s capital, the decision by many countries not to formally recognise this has been an act of post-truth petulance”

    Post truth petulance ? Post truth petulance ? Post truth petulance ? WTFIT ? Is it it prescription only or can you get it over the counter ? Sounds as if this idiot has just staggered out of a Zio drinks party and is suffering from Post Hasbara Flatulence.

  14. Ossinev
    December 7, 2017, 4:12 pm

    “4 hours ago – President Donald Trump’s slurred words during a speech announcing his controversial decision to move the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem are being dismissed by the White House as the result of a dry throat. “His throat was dry. There’s nothing to it,” Raj Shah, White House spokesman, told NBC …

    Problem solved, the white house said so”

    Au contraire mon brave. I think a fart got stuck in his throat.

    • eljay
      December 7, 2017, 6:02 pm

      || Ossinev: … Au contraire mon brave. I think a fart got stuck in his throat. ||

      Or maybe it was donkey…

  15. RoHa
    December 8, 2017, 12:25 am

    Even Mad Eyes Julie Bishop (Foreign Minister, American arse licker, Israeli shill, and general traitor) can’t bring herself to follow the US line on this.

    I haven’t heard anything from Mal, yet. He seems to be too busy congratulating himself on, for once, doing what the Australian people actually wanted.

  16. Bubba
    December 8, 2017, 5:33 am

    The PLO officially recognized Texas as part of Mexico. This is the start of a process to end the two-state solution between the United States of America and Mexico.
    https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/12/palestinians-recognize-texas-part-mexico/

  17. Bubba
    December 8, 2017, 5:53 am

    The Democrats in the US House and Senate are interested in this newly recognized part of Mexico. Texas has two Republican Senators which will be forced to resigned and Texas US House Members (mostly Republicans) will also step down. The Texas Congressional Slate will join the Mexican Congress of the Union representing the newly annexed 32nd State.

  18. Ossinev
    December 9, 2017, 9:45 am

    Now if you want to have real laugh you can read Mad Melanie Phillips take on the Daffy Donald`s Jerusalem decision.
    http://www.melaniephillips.com/british-european-perfidy/
    Total logic inverted Ziobollocks from beginning to end = the Palestinians have been brazenly manipulating Britain and Europe all along and we in Britain and Europe with the exception of Jewish visionaries like herself have simply been gormless idiots going along with their grand strategy including Theresa May who is “so stupid”. Did you copy that Theresa? Mad Mel thinks that you are ” so stupid” – perhaps you should hold that thought when you give your next speech at a CFI event.

    WTF is this creature still polluting our country ? Because like a lot of other Israel Firsters she waxes lyrical about her wonderful moral ancient historic crap crap crap homeland and its wonderful civilised moral democracy and brave moral armed forces but if challenged on why if it is such her one and only she isn`t living there she will curl up into an eternally victimised ball and cry,weep and wail on cue about “anti – Semitism”. Truth is she has a nice cushy little life here in ” Anti – Semitic ” Britain and quite simply is all mouth and no trousers.

    • amigo
      December 9, 2017, 1:58 pm

      This is how she ends the article you linked to .

      “In the medium to long-term, the Palestinians are over. In the short term, they can still cause the deaths of many Israelis. Which is why Britain and Europe even now still have Jewish blood on their hands.”mad melanie.

      Yes , she ought to get to the safety of her beloved light unto the nations before she is killed by one of her British /European fellow citizens.

      She is one nasty piece of work and should be thrown out of Europe.

  19. Kaisa of Finland
    December 9, 2017, 10:22 am

    At least Nikki Haley did not even try to pretend U.S. would be impartial in this issue:

    “Mrs Haley said the decision “recognises the obvious; that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel”.

    She said the US continued to be “committed to achieving a lasting peace agreement”, and accused the UN of bias.

    “Israel will never be, and never should be, bullied into an agreement by the United Nations or by any collection of countries that have proven their disregard for Israel’s security.””

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42287429

    .

  20. inbound39
    December 17, 2017, 8:50 am

    Was King David real or not…….doesn’t matter really. He would have been a King in name only subservient to either the Romans or Alexander the Great. Whether he kept his head or not would have been entirely up to his latest employer.

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