US vetoes UN resolution on Jerusalem, as Muslim states recognize East Jerusalem as Palestine’s capital

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The United States on Monday vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution calling for the U.S. to rescind its recent decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The other 14 members of the Security Council voted to approve the Egyptian-drafted resolution.

The resolution did not mention the United States by name, but targeted the Trump administration’s Dec. 6 decision to declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel, by affirming “that any decisions and actions which purport to have altered the character, status or demographic composition of the Holy City of Jerusalem have no legal effect, are null and void and must be rescinded in compliance with relevant resolutions of the Security Council.”

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, called the vote at the Security Council “an insult” that “won’t be forgotten,” according to Reuters. Her dissenting vote marked the first time in six years the U.S. used its veto power. The last instance was in 2011 when the Obama administration struck down a resolution that would have condemned Israeli settlement construction. 

Anticipating a U.S. veto, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), announced days previously that the group plans to try and get the resolution taken to the General Assembly, in an attempt to bypass the U.S. veto through the “Uniting for Peace” mechanism in the UN, which was created to deal with stalemates in the Security Council.

The OIC met last week to discuss the plan at the request of Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. At that meeting, the 57 member states announced that the OIC would recognize East Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Palestine.

In addition, Erdogan on Sunday expressed his wish to move the Turkish embassy to East Jerusalem. However, that move is unlikely given Israel’s occupation of the city.

Ahead of the vote on Monday, Reuters reported that UN Middle East peace envoy Nickolay Mladenov told the council that “in the wake of the decision of the United States … the situation has become more tense with an increase in incidents, notably rockets fired from Gaza and clashes between Palestinians and Israeli security forces.”

At least ten Palestinians have been killed in the twelve days since a wave of upheaval in the occupied Palestinian territory was sparked by Trump’s decision, with more than 300 Palestinians newly detained in Israeli prisons and 3,000 more injured in violence at the hands of Israeli forces attempting to suppress protests through clashes and night raids.

Outside of the Israeli government, the U.S. has no ally in its decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, with the international community widely condemning the U.S.’s move.

About Sheren Khalel

Sheren Khalel is a freelance multimedia journalist who works out of Israel, Palestine and Jordan. She focuses on human rights, women's issues and the Palestine/Israel conflict. Khalel formerly worked for Ma'an News Agency in Bethlehem, and is currently based in Ramallah and Jerusalem. You can follow her on Twitter at @Sherenk.

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103 Responses

  1. Boomer
    December 18, 2017, 7:15 pm

    re “U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, called the vote at the Security Council “an insult” that “won’t be forgotten,” according to Reuters. Her dissenting vote marked the first time in six years the U.S. used its veto power. The last instance was in 2011 when the Obama administration struck down a resolution that would have condemned Israeli settlement construction. ”

    Some say that we live in an era dominated by partisan politics, but there’s a bipartisan consensus among our elites on one topic, at least. It is a shame that it is a consensus that makes us complicit regardless of which party is nominally in power. “Shame” is the operative word.

    • CigarGod
      December 18, 2017, 8:27 pm

      The most powerful nation in the world controlled by one of the smallest.
      All you have to do is push enough money across the table.

    • Marnie
      December 18, 2017, 11:49 pm

      “Shame” is the operative word.” Nikki Haley probably has “Made by Israel” stamped on her ass along with all the other u.s. politicians who’ve been complicit in this charade. Then scratch their heads and wonder why the “Muslims” don’t want to ‘make a deal’.

      • Marnie
        December 19, 2017, 12:06 am

        It seems to be the right time for the u.n. to find another site for their headquarters and revoke the membership of the united states, as they are as contemptuous as israel, which should be given the proverbial boot too. At least they have each other. What a mess. Miss Nikki really does a heckuva job seething just beneath the surface.

      • Citizen
        December 19, 2017, 8:21 am

        Nikki, who converted to Christianity from Sikh, has a B.A. in Accounting, and when she supported the first state-wide anti-BDS law in the nation I saw no evidence she had any real knowledge about the Israel-Palestine history. Sheldon Adelson loves her.

  2. Maghlawatan
    December 18, 2017, 10:42 pm

    Haley is a tramp

    • Kay24
      December 19, 2017, 6:11 am

      If you take a hard look at the money trail, you will understand WHY the US is doing Netanyahu’s bidding:

      “Conservative mega-fundraisers Sheldon Adelson and the Koch brothers gave Gov. Nikki Haley’s political advocacy group a major infusion of cash to help in her bid to remove four Republican state Senate rivals in primaries this spring.
      Adelson, a Las Vegas casino mogul who was the top Republican donor of the 2012 presidential campaign, sent $250,000 to Haley’s A Great Day SC three weeks before the June primaries.

      The Koch brothers gave the group $50,000, according to quarterly Internal Revenue Service filings.

      Haley had come through for Adelson in 2015, when she passed the first law against boycotts of Israel— about the same time as Adelson convened an anti-BDS summit in Las Vegas.”

      AND OF COURSE FOR THE MAN DOING HIS BIDDING:

      “American Jewish billionaire Sheldon Adelson is reportedly set to give presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump a campaign donation that could exceed $100 million, making it the largest contribution the casino magnate would have given to a GOP candidate”

      Follow the money trail, and you can see why Trump and Haley have sold their souls to the devil.

      • Maghlawatan
        December 19, 2017, 8:51 am

        All of the pro Israel stuff in DC is backed by money rather than the people. Which is why it is Tammany Hall 2.0 .

      • Marnie
        December 19, 2017, 9:03 am

        Praying for their money to dry up.

    • druid
      December 19, 2017, 11:44 am

      agreed!

    • just
      December 20, 2017, 6:13 am

      Here’s Trump’s “tramp”:

      “Nikki Haley in Threatening Letter to UN Members: Trump ‘Will Be Watching’ Who Votes Against U.S. Recognition of Jerusalem

      U.S. envoy’s letter, obtained by Haaretz, sent one day before resolution rejecting U.S. move expected to pass by sweeping majority at the General Assembly

      U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley sent a letter to representatives of UN member-states, warning them against supporting a resolution rejecting President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

      The resolution, which expected to pass by sweeping majority, is slated for vote on Thursday.

      “The president will be watching this vote carefully and has requested I report back on those who voted against us,” she wrote in a letter obtained by Haaretz. “Thank you for your consideration, and please do not hesitate to contact my team with any questions or concerns.” …

      Haley continued, “As you know, the General Assembly is considering a resolution about President Trump’s recent decision on Jerusalem. As you consider your vote, I encourage you to know the president and the U.S. take this vote personally.

      “Twenty-two years ago, the U.S. congress declared that Jerusalem should be recognized as the capital of Israel, and that the U.S. embassy should be moved to Jerusalem. President Trump affirmed that declaration by officially recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. However, the President’s announcement does not effect final status negotiations in any way, including the specific boundaries of Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem. The president also made sure to support the status quo of Jerusalem’s holy sites, and did not advocate changes to arrangements at the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif.”

      Haley added: “The U.S. announcement is an acknowledgment that peace is best advanced, not set back, when all parties are honest Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since the country’s founding nearly seventy years ago The President clearly voiced support for a two-state solution if that’s what the sides agree on.”

      “I know that many in the General Assembly are also committed to the cause of peace,” Haley wrote, asking the member-states to consider whether such a resolution will not only fuel “the heated rhetoric and violence.”

      Haley stressed that the United States “was not asking for other countries [to] move their embassies to Jerusalem,” but “simply asking you acknowledge the historical friendship, partnership, and support we have extended and respect our decision about our embassy.”

      Haley also tweeted on Tuesday that the U.S. will stand by the Jerusalem decision and will be “taking names” of those who criticize impending embassy move.

      “At the UN we’re always asked to do more & give more,” Haley tweeted on Tuesday. “So, when we make a decision, at the will of the American ppl, abt where to locate OUR embassy, we don’t expect those we’ve helped to target us. On Thurs there’ll be a vote criticizing our choice. The US will be taking names.”

      The UN General Assembly is set to meet on Thursday at 5 P.M. Israel time (10 A.M. EST) for an emergency discussion on the unilateral American recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Turkey and Yemen requested the meeting after an Egyptian draft resolution against the recognition was presented to the Security Council and was vetoed by the United States, although the 14 other members of the council voted for it. …”

      read more: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.830088

      The US is wrong and imploding. The stain will remain with lasting shame.

      • John O
        December 20, 2017, 8:31 am

        That Trump takes it personally hardly needs stating, since he takes everything personally. But the US taking it personally doesn’t even begin to make sense.

  3. JLewisDickerson
    December 19, 2017, 5:37 am

    RE: “U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, called the vote at the Security Council ‘an insult’ that ‘won’t be forgotten’, according to Reuters. Her dissenting vote marked the first time in six years the U.S. used its veto power.” ~ Khalel

    An Ode in Praise of Nikki Haley

    A new sheriff’s come to town,
    and as an enforcer of Trump’s “America First” policy,
    she’s gonna take on Israel’s enemies at the UN,
    In addition to having Netanyahu’s back,
    she’s gonna be on the Mad Mullah’s case like white on rice.
    ‘Cause she’s sharpened up the spiked heels on her Stilettos,
    and strapped on her Lady Tequila custom ‘double rig’.
    That’s right, our very own rough ridin’, “Pistol Packin’ Mama”, Ms. Nikki Haley,
    is lookin’ to dispense a heapin’ he’pin’ of her Wild West justice
    to that den of iniquity called the UN.
    Stay tuned for our eyewitness report with all the gory details.
    Meanwhile, give a lis’en to ol’ Al Dexter and his troopers!

    Al Dexter & his troopers – Pistol Packin’ Mama

    • JLewisDickerson
      December 19, 2017, 8:03 am

      RE: “Anticipating a U.S. veto, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), announced days previously that the group plans to try and get the resolution taken to the General Assembly, in an attempt to bypass the U.S. veto through the “Uniting for Peace” mechanism in the UN, which was created to deal with stalemates in the Security Council.” ~ Khalel

      THE EXQUISITE IRONY: During the Korean War, the Truman Administration dreamed up the “Uniting for Peace” mechanism to use in the event it was necessary to get around any Soviet vetoes of Security Council resolutions in support of the UN Forces carrying out the “police action” in Korea. As it turned out, it wasn’t needed (and was first used to circumvent the vetoes of Britain and France during the 1956 Suez Crisis). Nonetheless, Resolution 377 resulted in the General Assembly becoming the preeminent organ of the UN , much to the chagrin of the U.S.

      WIKIPEDIA: Shakespeare’s phrase, “hoist with his own petard,” is an idiom that means “to be harmed by one’s own plan to harm someone else” or “to fall into one’s own trap”, implying that one could be lifted (blown) upward by one’s own bomb, or in other words, be foiled by one’s own plan. ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petard

      United Nations General Assembly Resolution 377
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_377
      [EXCERPTS] United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) resolution 377 A,[1] the “Uniting for Peace” resolution, states that in any cases where the Security Council, because of a lack of unanimity amongst its five permanent members, fails to act as required to maintain international peace and security, the General Assembly shall consider the matter immediately and may issue any recommendations it deems necessary in order to restore international peace and security. If not in session at the time the General Assembly may meet using the mechanism of the emergency special session. . .

      . . . The Uniting for Peace resolution was initiated by the United States,[7] and submitted by the “Joint Seven-Powers”[8] in October 1950, as a means of circumventing further Soviet vetoes during the course of the Korean War (25 June 1950 – 27 July 1953). It was adopted by 52 votes to 5,[9] with 2 abstentions.[10]

      In the closing days of Assembly discussions leading up to the adoption of 377 A, US delegate to the UN, John Foster Dulles, made specific reference to the Korean War as a chief motivator in the passage of the resolution:

      “Then came the armed attack on the Republic of Korea and it seemed that the pattern of 1931[11] had in fact begun to repeat itself and that the third world war might be in the making. And that might have been—and I think it would have been—had it not been for a series of accidental circumstances which made it possible to improvise collective resistance to that aggression.”[12]

      The principal accidental circumstance referred to by Dulles was that the Soviet Union was boycotting the Security Council at the time of the outbreak of hostilities in Korea, and had been since January 1950, owing to its discontent over the UN’s refusal to recognize the People’s Republic of China’s representatives as the legitimate representatives of China,[13] returning only on 1 August 1950 to assume the rotating role of Council President, for that month. This circumstance had meant that the Security Council was able to adopt its resolutions 83, of 27 June 1950,[14] and 84, of 7 July 1950,[15] thereby establishing a UN-mandated force for South Korea “to repel the armed attack” from the North. Had the Soviet Union been seated at the Council during the months of June and July, the relevant draft resolutions would almost certainly have been vetoed, and the United States was well aware of this, as evidenced by the above statement. . .

      UNGA First Emergency Special Session
      Although “Uniting for Peace” was enacted because of Soviet vetoes, its first use was, unexpectedly, against two NATO members.[32] The Assembly’s first emergency special session was instigated by a procedural vote of the Security Council on its Resolution 119 of 31 October 1956,[33] as a result of the Suez Crisis, which commenced 29 October 1956. France and the United Kingdom were the only two Council members to vote against the adoption of Council resolution 119, and were likewise, along with Israel, the principal antagonists in the conflict with Egypt; a conflict that the United States wanted to end. The session’s meetings were held between 1 November and 10 November 1956.

      On 7 November 1956, the Assembly adopted resolution 1001,[3] thereby establishing the United Nations Emergency Force I (UNEF I) to “secure and supervise the cessation of hostilities”. The Assembly, by its own resolutions, not only established UNEF I, but also called for “an immediate cease-fire”, and recommended “that all Member States refrain from introducing military goods in the area”, thereby authorizing military sanctions. . .

  4. Talkback
    December 19, 2017, 9:54 am

    Oh boy. The US and Israel overplayed their cards. They both hoped that they could turn an illegal reality into a recognized reality and that the rest of the world would follow. Israel dragged the US and its nepotistic president into violating international law. Now both states stand even more isolated than ever before, Israel’s ‘lawyer’ has lost its pseudo honest “broker” role and the rest of the Security Council is even more united against them. And this probably brought the muslim world more together than muslims could have ever done themselves, Turkey is leading this process and Russia is lining up for the broker role. What a ultimate disaster in US’ and Israel’s foreign policy.

    • Misterioso
      December 19, 2017, 11:04 am

      @Talkback

      Well said! Trump’s declaration to illegally move the US embassy to Jerusalem may please Netanyahu and his fellow thugs, but it will prove to be a curse for Israel and Zionism.

    • Maghlawatan
      December 19, 2017, 11:32 am

      They thought France and the UK would follow. Trump is an idiot. He doesn’t realise that both countries have more Muslim than Jewish citizens and that Jerusalem is a Muslim issue.
      Israel is into the non linear future. What may work for the GOP does not work for anyone else.
      Israel is isolated. Jewish donors cannot make reality.

      uh oh

      • JLewisDickerson
        December 19, 2017, 1:51 pm

        It’s no “Al Dexter & his troopers”, but it has a damn good beat, and it’s easy to dance to – actually its impossible not to dance to it. I’ll bet even Elaine from Seinfeld could dance to it (perhaps even without looking like she was suffering from some kind of rare neurological condition).

      • echinococcus
        December 19, 2017, 3:19 pm

        They thought France and the UK would follow. Trump is an idiot. He doesn’t realise that both countries have more Muslim than Jewish citizen

        That is why, Shirley, both these countries have been the Zionists’ beatch for a good 100 years. And counting!

      • Maghlawatan
        December 19, 2017, 4:01 pm

        Jews are supposed to be smart, Doris
        Israel is full of inept strategists. If you want to hold on to the land people have to have rights.

        Jerusalem is a political issue for Muslims everywhere. Get over it

        https://youtu.be/0XFudmaObLI

    • JLewisDickerson
      December 19, 2017, 12:57 pm

      Pence has again postponed his visit to Israel which is to include a supposedly private visit to the Western Wall in celebration of Donald Trumps tremendous gift to middle class Americans in the form of The Great Donald Trump Tax Reformation of 2017.

      The trip is now planned for the middle of next month, and I assume the purpose of the trip (which originally was to have been an exhibition of Pence commiserating with the Christians of the Middle East ) will now be to give the appearance that the Palestinians have gotten over any offense caused by Trump’s having conclusively established that the US serving as an “honest broker” was the ultimate duplicity. I think they will probably be desperate to convince everyone that the US-managed “peace process” is back on track so that Trump isn’t blamed for destroying something so vital to the completion of settlement project.

      It is unlikely this can be done convincingly without Abbas’ cooperation, and I think he might be fed up with ‘being used’. It’s unfortunate that it required the likes of a President Trump and his Middle East peace ‘dream team’ to make the duplicity so obvious that Abbas was forced to acknowledge the “REALITY” that the U.S. is not an “honest broker” (and, though not acknowledged by Abbas, hasn’t been since the Reagan Administration, if not before). Of course, Abbas knew the U.S. wasn’t an “honest broker” but was instead Israel’s primary enabler/codependent, and he was willing to not question The Emperor’s New Clothes in the form of being an (Honorary) Honest Broker, since he knew he had to ultimately negotiate with both Israel and the U.S., and he thought his chances with the U.S. were much better than with Israel.

      It will be interesting to see if Team Trump can get Abbas to help them continue the ruse of the “peace process” so that Trump and Netanyahu can put the settlement growth on steroids as it enters the home stretch.

  5. JLewisDickerson
    December 19, 2017, 10:12 am

    RE: “Outside of the Israeli government, the U.S. has no ally in its decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel . . .”

    Czech Republic recognizes pre-1967 Jerusalem as capital of Israel …
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/czech-republic-recognizes-pre-1967-jerusalem-as-capital-of-israel/
    Dec 7, 2017 – The Czech Republic said in a statement Wednesday that it recognizes the pre-1967 west Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, but that it will only consider moving its embassy from Tel Aviv to the city after talks with regional partners. The announcement came hours after US President Donald Trump declared …

    P.S. I have accepted the “REALITY” that there is virtually no chance that, in the long-term, the plight of the Palestinians will be improved by any “peace agreement” the Israeli government would conceivably agree to, even as a product of negotiations under the auspices of a legitimate ‘honest broker’, rather than the duplicitous U.S. In fact, “peace agreement” would be a misnomer, since it would effectively be a ‘submission agreement’ wherein the Palestinians acknowledged the “REALITY” that a pittance of sovereignty (most likely, little more than the right to fly their flag ) over their non-contiguous Bantustans was all the U.S. and Israel were ever going to allow them to have. Of course, I imagine there would have been much talk of the ultimate Marshal Plan to help them drown their sorrows, but even if it were put into print, they would have been wise not to expect much of it to ever materialize. The Palestinian diaspora’s buyout would more likely be fully funded (mostly by the Gulf States), since some of them would live in the West and have governments with an interest in seeing to it that they received any cash payments they were due.

  6. David Gerald Fincham
    December 19, 2017, 11:37 am

    In my view, the reaction to Trump’s statement has been over the top. Jerusalem is the declared capital of Israel and also its defacto capital. The possibility that Israel will move its capital anywhere else is zero. Recognizing that reality does not alter the character, status or demographic composition of the Holy City of Jerusalem. It was the wrong thing to do, because it could be thought to imply that Trump is recognizing Israeli sovereignty over all of Jerusalem, but it doesn’t explicitly say that: if it had such a strong reaction would have been justified.

    I am much more angry at the declaration by the Muslim nations that East Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine. The Palestinian Declaration of Independence says that Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine; it was the capital of Palestine under the Mandate; and before that, under Ottoman rule, it was the major administrative center. The idea that Jerusalem could be permanently divided is an insult to the Palestinians, to the Israelis, and to all Christians, Muslims and Jews around the world who regard it as the Holy City.

    If there is to be a two-state solution, the only acceptable status for Jerusalem would be joint sovereignty and administration by Israel and Palestine. Hopefully, co-operation between the two peoples in the administration of Jerusalem could lead to a degree of reconciliation and the possibility of a union of the two states: see http://www.religion-science-peace.org/2017/10/07/the-one-state-two-nations-proposal/

    • Mooser
      December 19, 2017, 2:54 pm

      “If there is to be a two-state solution”

      Why should Israel be obligated to maintaining and securing a larger area than Zionist numbers and support can ensure?
      The two-state solution is a ruse, designed to keep Israel from shrinking to its natural and defensible size, thus making it more vulnerable, and less able to maintain its purity.

      • Citizen
        December 19, 2017, 4:23 pm

        Really? What then in your opinion is the one-state solution? A design to make Israel less vulnerable and more able to maintain its purity?

  7. Ossinev
    December 19, 2017, 1:18 pm

    @DGF
    “If there is to be a two-state solution”
    No offence intended but:

    The 2ss is now seriously fake news as the great Fakir in Chief would say.

    • David Gerald Fincham
      December 19, 2017, 5:37 pm

      Mooser and Ossinev: I have long argued that a two-state solution is undesirable and impractical. But the two states already exist as legal entities. Neither is going to announce that it no longer exists. A one-state solution can only come about by an agreed union of the two existing states. There can be no such agreement until Israel has recognized Palestine, halted the settlement program, and ended the occupation of the West Bank and the siege of Gaza, so that Palestine has gained its freedom. That is, a two-state reality is a necessary step on the way to a one-state solution. What will be the nature of that state? Please read the link in my comment.

      • Mooser
        December 19, 2017, 9:32 pm

        ” But the two states already exist as legal entities”

        Israel has never met the conditions of its legality, has it? No, it hasn’t.

      • echinococcus
        December 19, 2017, 10:16 pm

        Fincham,

        But the two states already exist as legal entities. Neither is going to announce that it no longer exists.

        Mind your vocabulary, please! You mean “juridical entities in their own mind”:

        The invader state is **illegal**, the diametrical opposite of “legal”; its presence anywhere outside the 1947 fiat borders is illegal also even according to the imperial pirates GB and US and their clients.

        As for your hypothetical Second Entity, which I suppose to be the Palestinian State, the verb is not “exist”. This state is fully imaginary, the PA is not a “state” in any acception of the term but a petty police administration in the service of an armed occupier, just exactly as the Nazi occupation’s local administrations in several European countries before 1945.

        A one-state solution can only come about by an agreed union of the two existing states

        Very faulty use of the word “only”.
        There are other ways:
        it can come about by the physical destruction of the occupier and the foundation of an indigenous state.

        Faulty use of the expression “to come about”: there already is a single state in all of Palestine, a totally illegal one, whose presence in Jerusalem/Quds even contravenes the travesty of law of the USUK imperial beasts.

        There can be no such agreement until Israel has recognized Palestine, halted the settlement program, and ended the occupation of the West Bank and the siege of Gaza, so that Palestine has gained its freedom

        Sure, and what else can they give you with that? Apparently all one has to do to get it is ask, if we listen to you.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        December 19, 2017, 10:29 pm

        “A one-state solution can only come about by an agreed union of the two existing states. There can be no such agreement until Israel has recognized Palestine, halted the settlement program, and ended the occupation of the West Bank and the siege of Gaza, so that Palestine has gained its freedom. That is, a two-state reality is a necessary step on the way to a one-state solution..”

        This is exactly what I tried to propose in one of my earlier comments as a “1st step solution”. If there would not be a “free Palestine” first, it would be one Apatheid state in any case: Hebrew over Arabic, Zionist culture over Palestinian culture etc. (I just do not see any realistic possiblity of all of the Jewish population suddenly leaving). Walls tend to fall, but it is best they fall in the right time.

        I wish I had more time (Christmas coming and lots of wrapping to do!!) to write why I think we are living in a bit different(and more interesting) time around this I/P matter, but here is the short version:

        1. Too long time from the 2ndWW to use it as an excuse for everything anymore.

        2. Since Trump got elected, he has only shown his a** to Europe in those matters which are important here = f.ex. climate change&conservation(nature), so I don’t think there is any special loyalty to be expect from Europe.

        3. Because of Brexit, Britain is weak and Germany strong and atleast this year the Forgein Minister of Germany has been meeting people from the Breaking the Silence despite Netanyahu’s “ultimatum” not to meet with them, which shows, Germans are ready to see the “other side” of the conflict.

        4. EU(specially Germany) and Turkey have had a bit cold relations since Erdogan started to limit the freedom of the press and jailing his opposition, but since no-one here wants any conflicts and Germany and Turkey are important to eachother(about 3 million Turks living in Germany), if Turkey starts to push for a independent Palestine, it would be a good place for Germany/EU/Turkey to agree on something and “work together”/co-operate.

        5. Putin has personal connections to Israel, but, he also wishes to be in good relations with Turkey and if Iran is there too, backing the deal, Putin most likely won’t oppose.

        6. China, wants to do business with everyone, does not have any special favourities(loyalties) between Jews, Christians or Muslims, so most likely won’t oppose a free/independent Palestine, if the joined Arab/Muslim countries were to “push” for one. Maybe would even want to be acting as a negotiator..

        So what do we have left?? Saudis and Egypt? Two question marks, because of their common interests with U.S., but atleast the ordinary Egyptians seem to back up the Palestinians, so their leadership can’t really forget their opinions..

        So.. There is U.S. joined Israel and who else, Saudis??

        (This was my “curves straight” version, but IF the Arab/Muslim “coalition” starts to push for some kind of solution and end of the occupation, then I do not see any reason, why most of the European countries wouldn’t back up the plan as would most likely do China, Russia etc too. So my “utopia” would be: the settlers out of the WB&EJ and no more road blocks, checkpoints and nightly “home penetrations” by the IDF.. That would be a good start!)

        But the time will tell..

      • Talkback
        December 20, 2017, 3:33 pm

        “That is, a two-state reality is a necessary step on the way to a one-state solution.”

        That wasn’t the case in Southafrica which is not different from the Zionist Apartheid Junta and its Nonjewish Bantustans.

      • MHughes976
        December 20, 2017, 3:48 pm

        The two state situation, I’ll not say solution, will not exist unless the current PA is converted into some semblance of a sovereign entity by a proposal coming from or at least endorsed by Israel. It would be a great help if Israel would make public what if would consider a fair long term solution. I think that all who claim to be liberal Zs should call for this to happen, loudly and often.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        December 20, 2017, 4:03 pm

        “That wasn’t the case in Southafrica which is not different from the Zionist Apartheid Junta and its Nonjewish Bantustan..”

        But do you honestly think that white and black citizens in South Africa have equal possibilities in life?? For the empowerment of the Palestinians and strengthening their own culture it would be usefull for them to have their own state atleast in the beginning. As I see it, allthough in law they would be equal, in practise they would still be the 2nd class citizens, if that one state was born under the prevailing circumstances.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        December 20, 2017, 4:15 pm

        “It would be a great help if Israel would make public what if would consider a fair long term solution..”

        The amount of illegal settlers has risen with about 100 000 people every decade in the West Bank. The current situation where no real “peace plan” or “negotiations” are going on, serves grately Israel’s purposes. The longer nothing really happens, the deeper the illegal settlers will “penetrate” into the Palestinian territories and then there will be nothing left for the Palestinians anymore.

        And does someone honestly believe that the settlers would suddenly start to treat the Palestinians as equals, if it became one state?? The IDF would stop bullying the Palestinians and the checkpoints would be removed.. ?? I just do not see that coming in atleast the next 200 years.. That is why I believe, it has to be two states before that one united one.

      • echinococcus
        December 21, 2017, 11:46 am

        Kaisa,

        And does someone honestly believe that the settlers would suddenly start to treat the Palestinians as equals, if it became one state?? The IDF would stop bullying the Palestinians and the checkpoints would be removed.. ?? I just do not see that coming in atleast the next 200 years.

        Thank you for an injection of sanity. We don’t get that often enough.

        But you are still reading too many fairy tales.
        Like the one where Zionists make any concessions, meaning any. Or the one where any significant number of Zionists continue to reside in a state where Palestinians have any political rights.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        December 21, 2017, 12:36 pm

        “But you are still reading too many fairy tales..”

        I know! But if we do not talk aloud about options and just stay passive, nothing will ever happen. Like if we just start talking about that now it is finally time for the Palestinians to get their own state, those Palestinians who are living in diaspora to be able to return, it is not about changing the minds of the Zionists, but changing the minds of everybody else.

        I think Europe is ready now and most the Europeans are brought up to share and compromize so, if someone wants everything, he/she is tought to be greedy and who has any sympathy for the greedy ones?? And China, Russia, most of the Arab/Muslim countries, why would they not back up a Palestinian state??

        I think we should speak more about the free Palestine and the posibility of the “diaspora Palestinians” to be able to return. How many Zionists are there in the world?? Hardly a majority?? Can they live in a closed reality without other countries??

        My mother grew up less than 10 km’s away from the Soviet boarder in 1940’s-50’s-beginning of the 1960’s. The boarder was totally closed and they did not know anything about what happened on the other side. Each New Year they could hear shootings at 11pm because of the different time zone, that was all. She always says, no-one could ever have believed that one day Soviet Union would collapse and that boarder would be open and about 2,6 million Russians traveling through it annually to spend their holidays or just coming to shop in Finland..

        I know it is hard to believe in change, but since world is under constant change anyway, we have to try to affect the way it is changing!

      • MHughes976
        December 21, 2017, 3:29 pm

        I’m not convinced that 2ss is any more of a practical possibility than 1ss. But perhaps it is just within possibility that Israel should put forward, for all to see, what its idea of a fair permanent situation is. This should be a short term aim for liberal Zs too, I believe, if they have any sincerity.

      • echinococcus
        December 21, 2017, 3:41 pm

        Kasia,

        Who said stay passive? I’m only observing that for the majority of Palestinians, the main thought of a majority of Palestinians is not “it is finally time for the Palestinians to get their own state” but “it’s been a hundred years since Palestine has been stolen and must be given back.”
        I’m also observing that all the “equal rights” feel-good nonses is jus as much nonsense as the cohabitation utopia.

        You are absolutely right, and we must repeat the following every morning, noon and evening:

        no-one could ever have believed that one day Soviet Union would collapse and that boarder[*] would be open and about 2,6 million Russians traveling through it annually to spend their holidays or just coming to shop in Finland..
        I know it is hard to believe in change, but since world is under constant change anyway, we have to try to affect the way it is changing!

        So it’s a good idea to work for change. Conditions change; the US sinks; new alliances form; the Nazi occupation was called impossible to defeat as late as 1943.

        The Zionist riffraff could therefore be physically defeated. If you want to “affect the way” you may help arm the resistance and defeat the puppet administration. What seems impossible is that the ideological crazies would compromise as long as the US is standing.

        [*] a boarder is someone who pays you for a bed /room in your house and perhaps also breakfast and dinner.

      • echinococcus
        December 21, 2017, 4:02 pm

        Hughes,

        But perhaps it is just within possibility that Israel should put forward, for all to see, what its idea of a fair permanent situation is. This should be a short term aim for liberal Zs too, I believe, if they have any sincerity

        Hmm. A Turkish proverb for you:
        “Hope is the poor man’s bread. Eat it, Tommy Atkins*, eat it!”

        (* “Mohammed” in the original)

      • Kaisa of Finland
        December 21, 2017, 4:21 pm

        echi:

        “I’m only observing that for the majority of Palestinians, the main thought of a majority of Palestinians is not “it is finally time for the Palestinians to get their own state” but “it’s been a hundred years since Palestine has been stolen and must be given back..”

        Ofcourse, if that is what they say.. I’ve just only happened to meet those, who wanted their own state and right to visit their relatives living on the other side of the boarder. It is difficult for me to see how that one state would be accomplished without the Palestinians becoming the 2nd class citizens on their own land.

      • MHughes976
        December 21, 2017, 4:28 pm

        Hope is the younger sister, you know, of faith and charity.

      • echinococcus
        December 21, 2017, 6:22 pm

        Kaisa

        It is difficult for me to see how that one state would be accomplished without the Palestinians becoming the 2nd class citizens on their own land.

        It’s not just difficult, it’s impossible!
        That’s why Palestinian resistance, before being murdered in 1993, was not so much into discussing 1ss, 2ss, just SS, etc. It just said let’s get back Palestine.

        Most colonial peoples also solved it: like the Algerians, they offered their citizenship to those colonist offspring who committed themselves to being loyal Algerian citizens. Deciding the details of citizenship laws for Palestine, though, is nobody’s business but the Palestinians’ and definitely not that of American liberaloids.

        This has nothing to do with either a 2ss nonsense (or temporary compromise?) or the Imperial Liberals’ trendy 1ss “equality” which would be nothing but the continuation of colonial rule and normalization of theft under a new, cutesy facade.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        December 21, 2017, 6:45 pm

        echi:

        I must add, that my proposal earlier was that there would first be a state for the Palestinians, (as a first step solution), which then later could become one joined larger area with what now is called Israel. Those Palestinians on the Israel’s side would stay there anyway, since they have not moved there illegally.

        I think the diffrence between us is that I wish as non-violent outcome as possible. With the pressure of the world against Israel/U.S./Togo/Nauru and what ever they were, one could get the settlers out of the West Bank and a place for the diaspora Palestinians to return too (If I remember correctly about 700 000 illegal settlers in EJ and WB, so some place for the “returnees”..)

        Ofcourse the different options should be discussed with the Palestinians, but I think most of them would rather have less violent way for their future. I have no compassion for the Zionists, but as a descendant of war survivers, it takes about 70 years for a nation to get over all that violence and destruction, so for the sake of all the women and the children of the area, I wish a more peacefull way to be found. I don’t mean the settlers would leave voluntarily, but it doesn’t necessary mean, their removal would cause a war. Depends on how many countries there would be backing up the plan. In my opinion, there has not been any plan in several decades and now there could be a good time to introduce one.

        And if someone asks where to put all those settlers: Well isn’t Israel proud of changing desert to an oasis?? As there are New This and That all over the world, let them build a New Hebron on the desert.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        December 21, 2017, 7:04 pm

        echi:

        For the memory of my grandparents, I will never support a war.

      • echinococcus
        December 22, 2017, 2:11 pm

        Kaisa,

        Just to avoid misunderstandings.
        This is not a question of “supporting a war”. There is a full-blown war that’s been going on for 70 years and counting and the question is how to stop it.

        I can’t imagine it to ever get stopped by just hoping that the lion will lie with the lamb tomorrow. Any idea how many GA votes and talks and so on have been taking place in the 70 years? Look at how impressed the USRael is. No concession is forthcoming, ever, as long as the US stands and the Zionists are not bleeding.

        This being said, the peaceful way is there and it has always been available if the players so wish: it is for the Zionists to become rational actors overnight instead of ideologically indoctrinated Brave-New-Worlders and to comply with the requirements of law and reason when there is no armed (and superior) force to oblige them, and/or for the Americans to have a democracy with freedom of expression and association, where informing the population is possible and the popular will dictates the actions of the government, where cutting the Zionist umbilical cord does not call forth an immediate military takeover. Good luck.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        December 22, 2017, 3:28 pm

        Echi:

        The world around Israel/U.S. is not the same any more. I think for the first time since 1948 the world could be ready for some HONEST negotiations. And if it is world against Israel/U.S./Nauru/Honduras/Guatemala etc. I wonder how long time U.S. is still ready to defend Israel. I understand every word you say, but I am still saying the context to this all is not the same as it used to be.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        December 22, 2017, 3:55 pm

        Sorry, I think in this case, I should have used the word ultimatum instead of “negotiations”. Anyway, I hope Turkey or someone will take this chance soon, the moment might pass, if it is not used now.

      • echinococcus
        December 22, 2017, 5:05 pm

        Kaisa,

        The USrael has been more isolated than it is now in several past GA votes. Which are, by the way, powerless by definition. For the life of me, I can’t see what is radically new now or the justificative facts to make you believe the world may now be “ready for some HONEST negotiations”. Anyway, no need to go on about it.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        December 22, 2017, 5:20 pm

        Now, this is like very bad commenting, too much other stuff in my head..

        I was meant to write: I hope someone takes the leadership (not chance) soon for some “negotiations”. For the first time, different options should really be discussed and then also go through with something, if there was an option the Palestinians could agree with. This has never really happened before, but in this time, there could be a change for it.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        December 22, 2017, 7:01 pm

        ” I can’t see what is radically new now..”

        Time has passed, WW2 is not good enough of an excuse for keeping up an Apratheid State anymore.

        “Anyway, no need to go on about it..”

        No, I would not have time for it either:

        Merry Chrtistmas for those who are celebrating and Peace for everyone!!

        http://www.ts.fi/static/content/pic_5_421870_k421865_1200.jpg

      • RoHa
        December 22, 2017, 11:01 pm

        Past, Kiasa.

        “WW 2 is not a good enough excuse…”

        No “of” needed.

  8. Maghlawatan
    December 19, 2017, 4:07 pm

    Trump has done Iran a favour :

    Iran’s ambassador to the UK, Hamid Baeidinejad, condemned Haley’s comments on Tuesday. “Ambassador @nikkihaley exhibited ‘unforgettable’ isolation of his country by veto of the resolution rejecting Trump’s recent recognition of Al-Quds as capital of the Israeli regime. UNGA will address the issue on December 21, expecting a major blow to Trump and US foreign policy,” he tweeted.

    • catalan
      December 19, 2017, 4:36 pm

      “Trump has done Iran a favour :”
      I have a suspicion that the Saudis are really scared of Iran. And with good reason, as Iran is an enormous, powerful country probably supported by Russia and China. This means that while at the UN there will be a lot of theatrics, I think that behind the scenes Israel and the Saudis are actually talking and getting along.
      The timing of the resolution is poor. December 21, another resolution with the US, Israel, and the Czechs against, a dozen abstentions, and the others for. December 25 is Christmas in the US, all will be forgotten by then.

  9. James Canning
    December 19, 2017, 6:31 pm

    Yet more rubbish from Nikki Haley. An ardent stooge of Aipac, quite clearly.

  10. JosephA
    December 19, 2017, 9:36 pm

    Nikki Haley is about as farcical as Trump himself.

  11. Mayhem
    December 19, 2017, 10:03 pm

    Just love all the denouncements of Nikki Haley. Goes to show she must be doing a great job. Furthermore the OIC and its lackeys have demonstrated total hypocrisy by criticising America’s decision, while at the same time declaring East Jerusalem as the capital of ‘Palestine’.

    • Mooser
      December 19, 2017, 11:01 pm

      Yeah “Mayhem”, you stick with Trump and Haley. There will be so much ‘winning’.

    • Maghlawatan
      December 20, 2017, 6:59 am

      Jeffrey Dahmer got a lot of stick from lefties. He must have been doing a great job.

    • John O
      December 20, 2017, 7:24 am

      Ah, Nikki Haley, the school bully who told the UN that she would be taking the names of those who didn’t support America’s position. (She’d save herself a lot of effort if she listed the names of those who did support it.) An apt role model for someone whose nom de plume is Mayhem.

    • eljay
      December 20, 2017, 7:31 am

      || Mayhem: … Just love all the denouncements of Nikki Haley. Goes to show she must be doing a great job. … ||

      If denouncements are an indicator of good work, Kim Jong-Il is doing a freakin’ amazing job.

      || … Furthermore the OIC and its lackeys have demonstrated total hypocrisy by criticising America’s decision, while at the same time declaring East Jerusalem as the capital of ‘Palestine’. ||

      I agree. Jerusalem should be a Free City, its status / fate determined democratically by its indigenous inhabitants. I’m glad we agree that Israel must end and roll-back its on-going occupation and colonization of Jerusalem.

      • eljay
        December 20, 2017, 8:25 am

        || eljay: … Kim Jong-Il is doing a freakin’ amazing job. … ||

        Sorry, Kim Jong-Un is doing a freakin’ amazing job. (His dad did a freakin’ amazing job.)

      • Mayhem
        December 23, 2017, 6:58 am

        Funny how nobody bothered to complain when East Jerusalem was under Jordanian rule and synagogues were being destroyed and holy sites desecrated. The Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation

      • eljay
        December 23, 2017, 10:04 am

        || Mayhem: Funny how nobody bothered to complain when East Jerusalem was under Jordanian rule and synagogues were being destroyed and holy sites desecrated. ||

        It appears that you were attempting to link to this Wiki page which starts off with the following statement:

        Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation is what occurred during the Jordanian occupation of the West Bank between 1948–1967 …

        I didn’t complain because that was before my time. And I’m pretty sure MW wasn’t around back then, either.

        But perhaps your point is merely (and Zionistically): “Acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews justify acts of injustice and immorality committed by Jews.”

      • echinococcus
        December 23, 2017, 10:37 am

        Mayhem,

        Cutesiest of all are those goons who start a war of aggression and then complain that there is a war. Especially those among them who adopt as nickname their program of aggression and war but seem so surprised, shocked, I tell you! when there is war and retaliation.

      • Talkback
        December 23, 2017, 12:58 pm

        Mayhem: “Funny how nobody bothered to complain when East Jerusalem was under Jordanian rule and synagogues were being destroyed and holy sites desecrated.”

        Yes, it’s funny, because nobody bothered to complain when your Apartheid Junta took control over Palestine and did not only destroy more than 400 villages:

        “During the 1950s, the nascent state and IDF set about destroying historical sites left behind by other cultures, particularly Muslims. This policy was so indiscriminate that even synagogues were destroyed. … Ben-Gurion wanted to erase everything that had been, to erase the Islamic past.”
        read more: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/history-erased-1.224899

        And nobody bothered to camplain when your Apartheid Junta destroyed a third of Gaza’s mosques.

        You are so funny.

  12. dx
    December 20, 2017, 8:33 am

    One small remark regarding Saudi/Iranian hostility: if it comes to an actual shooting war between the two, the Iranians will fight for their country and the subjects of the Saudi kingdom will not. Iran has a long deep history and patriotic citizens even if they do not like the govt. But the Saudis have to hire people to be in the military like mercenaries, their history is short, and they keep control and placate the citizenry with money. It was an interesting juxtaposition. (I think I read this in Foreign Policy.) I bet the Saudis are scared of this.

  13. Ossinev
    December 20, 2017, 11:31 am

    @DGF
    ” an agreed union of the two existing states”
    Others have got there before me to point out the absurdity of this statement. There are no “two existing states”. There is a Zionist State which has descended into Fascism controlling and suffocating on a daily basis an “Authority” which it set up (aided and abetted by Zionist controlled America) as a pseudo legitimate cover for ongoing control and suffocation of the native population and incremental theft of their lands.. The aim was ,is and always will be as far as Zionists are concerned a full takeover of Palestine. In terms of land they are well on their way to achieving this. The major and insurmountable problem which they have as a result of their blind arrogance created for themselves is that the indigenous owners of the land have not given up and abandoned their land despite the barbarism being inflicted on them on a daily basis by occupying foreigners. They did not give up , they do not give up and they will never give up and most frustrating of all for the Zionists is that they keep breeding. So the options for the Zionists are as follows.
    1) Genocide = not possible AD 2017
    2) Full scale ethnic cleansing = not possible AD 2017 plus to where and how ?
    3) Mass sterilisation = the mini trial with Ethiopian Jewish women didn`t work out well.
    4) Continuation of the status quo = not possible , PA about to implode , BDS on the rise and overt Apartheid = South Africa Mark 2 but in the digital era much much more punitive in terms of clinical international isolation.

    Added to this is the fact that Zionists mentally have not moved on from the “hubris” of 1967.
    They really do think that they are inviolate with or without their puppet America. Times and military capabilities have changed with or without their may have may not have nuclear arsenal.

    As for your England/Scotland scenario “an agreed union of the two existing states”. I sense that your intentions are well motivated but Cloud Cuckoo land I`m afraid.

    The only game left in town IMHO is an Apartheid Israel followed by total international isolation followed by a single state with a significant Palestinian majority ( once all the Brooklyn etc dual passport holders have jumped ship and abandoned their biblical Disneyworld). Oh and yes I do realise that there probably will be a lot of horrors and bloodshed as this unfolds – as for blame well not for sure the victims of the crimes the Palestinians.

    • LHunter
      December 22, 2017, 11:12 am

      Ossinev – “Biblical Disneyworld” – love the term – who would Mickey Mouse be? We know who Goofy is.

  14. Atlantaiconoclast
    December 20, 2017, 1:40 pm

    In fairness to Darling Nikki, she is probably not that smart, or at least not that well educated about Palestine. She is a Christian Zionist in the South. I know many of her type. It is very hard to see anymore damaging doctrine in all of modern Christianity than the heresy of Christian Zionism. She and others like her sincerely believe that God blesses those who bless Israel, based on the Scofield Bible, which was created to indoctrinate Christians into supporting Zionism.

  15. Maghlawatan
    December 20, 2017, 2:07 pm

    This is an open door for Chinese power.
    The fading US and its Ziocaine addiction.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/20/donald-trump-threat-cut-aid-un-jerusalem-vote

    Donald Trump has threatened to withhold “billions” of dollars of US aid from countries which vote to condemn the US president’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

    US will ‘take names of those who vote to reject Jerusalem recognition’

     

    Read more

    His comments came after the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley warned member states that she will be “taking names” of countries that vote for a general assembly resolution on Thursday critical of the announcement which overturned decades of US foreign policy.

    Speaking at a cabinet meeting on Wednesday, Trump said: “Let them vote against us. We’ll save a lot. We don’t care. But this isn’t like it used to be where they could vote against you and then you pay them hundreds of millions of dollars,” he said. “We’re not going to be taken advantage of any longer.”

    • Kaisa of Finland
      December 20, 2017, 3:29 pm

      ““Let them vote against us. We’ll save a lot. We don’t care. But this isn’t like it used to be where they could vote against you and then you pay them hundreds of millions of dollars,” he said. “We’re not going to be taken advantage of any longer.””

      We are living in interesting times right now: Trump seems to think that he can dictate all the terms and others will follow just because he.. ??? What?? Is a narcissist??

      While he keeps isolating U.S. it makes power relations change in the world and it might just be what we need right now. What is Trump going to do, if he stands there with Israel and Saudis against the rest of the world?? Is he gonna throw himself on the floor and “kick and bite the rug”.. ?? Like: “Do these stupid people not understand me..??”

      • Maghlawatan
        December 20, 2017, 4:35 pm

        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/01/trump-gossip-columnist-media-coverage-susan-mulcahy

        “He’s a narcissist beyond description. Every day I get up, look at the paper and can’t believe he’s president. It is such a joke to me.”

        Donald Trump should be treated like a very, very bad child in a preschool. Like the kid in preschool who really wants attention, so he throws his excrement against the wall? That’s Trump on Twitter.

        “Bury the absurd outbursts and cover what is really happening. Don’t cover his personality and his statements on Twitter, because they’re ridiculous.”

        Mulcahy said she wished there were a way to cover the actions of Trump’s administration without covering Trump himself. “He would lose interest in the whole thing, as soon as it wasn’t all about him,” she said. “He would lose interest in being president if you just covered those actions.”

        For instance, she said, it was no coincidence that when hurricanes were pounding the Gulf, Trump was busy tweeting about players kneeling at NFL games. “He wants people not to pay attention to the fact that his government is not doing a good job of hurricane cleanup,” she said. “He’s very good at redirecting attention.”

        She is damning about what she see as the president’s narcissism.

        “He’s so excited to turn the TV on – it’s Donald everywhere and that’s all he wants,” she said. “He didn’t get into office with a plan, like: I want to accomplish these things. He just wanted to win – just like he wanted to make a major real estate deal and get the most tax abatements or whatever.”

        She added: “He has no policies or theories, just a desperate, endless need for attention.””

  16. gingershot
    December 20, 2017, 3:18 pm

    ‘The Impeachment of the Co-Presidents Netanyahu and Trump’

    After the UN GA vote on Palestine, Netanyahu’s moll Nikki Haley is now ‘taking names’ and threatening all the states of the world – it reminds me of the same thing Bibi did after his ‘involuntary narcissistic rage’ event over his unsuccessful encryption/conspiracy with Jared over UN 2334 (now the central thrust of Mueller’s Charges/Trump Impeachment) with his astonishing and revealing direct ordering of the US Congress to retaliate against all the UN Sec Co states of the world, and coinkydinky the same thing Adelson did after the Iran Deal, when Adelson and the Lobby started threatening US Congressman who broke from the Israel Lobby, until they were desperately hushed because of the catastrophic optics and pushback from saner heads in the Lobby, amongst others

    Real American of you, Sheldon, Nikki, Bibi – like Don Corleone-American

    verbatim Netanyahu video transcript ‘… I, President of the United States, …’ as Bibi role-played what he would do as President of the US, like now

  17. gingershot
    December 20, 2017, 3:19 pm

    ‘Nikki’s Ode to the Stung Clean Break Drive on Iran’

    ‘These boots are made for walking
    And that’s just what they’ll do
    One of these days these boots are gonna walk the plank for you’

    No walking back the Putin-stung Clean Break plank, Nikki, but cute pirate boots, matey!

    Hope your 15 min blown on Trump was worth it because you’re never climbing down from the top of the mast you lashed yourself to with that spectacle

    Netanyahu and Trump wouldn’t even let you cancel your show and tell which was ALREADY a dead letter after Trump blew up the Clean Break Drive with Jerusalem and any hope of Saudi/Gulf cooperation with Israel’s drive on Syria/Iran.

    Well, then again, it was Netanyahu correctly making the move to ‘unify absolutely everyone’ and stick JStreet and the Diaspora to him with Jerusalem, his fate now their fate. Nope, he ain’t going down alone anymore, nosiree. Everybody’s going down together if Bibi goes down – if Mama ain’t happy ain’t nobody happy, he made sure of it

    After Jerusalem the word was already out that Saudi is OUT of your Putin-Stung Clean Break Drive and that means No Presidential Soup for you ever, Nikki, but still you got out there and walked down that plank. Guts, real guts

    Trump finally found someone that was loyal to him, no matter what – quite a legacy, Nikki, quite the legacy. Own it, walk it, and your pirate boots fit so wear them, wear them for the rest of your life

  18. Talkback
    December 20, 2017, 4:01 pm

    An interesting thought:
    “Egypt – which proposed the draft resolution condemning Trump’s decision on behalf of the Palestinians, the Arab and the Islamic states – could have included the US as a country that violated the international consensus on Jerusalem.

    This way, the US would not have been able to veto the resolution – paragraph 3 of Article 27 under Chapter V of the UN Charter stipulates that “any member that is a party to a dispute must abstain from voting”.”
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20171220-the-un-is-another-lost-battle-for-the-palestinians/

    But I guess that in that case someone else may have vetoed it.

  19. David Gerald Fincham
    December 20, 2017, 4:12 pm

    Reply to Mooser and echinococcus of 19 December.

    1. Legality

    Despite its many crimes, Israel exists as a state because it satisfies the requirements of the Montevideo Convention. It has a population, a defined territory, a government, and a capacity to enter into relations with other states, as demonstrated by its recognition by other states. There is no concept in international law of an illegally existing state. But there is certainly a concept of illegally acquired territory which, as you say, applies in Israel’s case to all territory it has acquired outside the partition plan borders it declared on 14 May 1948.

    2. Palestine.

    The State of Palestine was created in 1988 by the same process of declaration and recognition that created Israel. Although its government controls only a part of its territory, the rest being under Israeli military occupation, that has not stopped other states from recognizing it. It has as much right to exist in peace and security as does Israel.

    3. Physical Destruction of the Occupier

    I am not sure what you mean by this phrase. The State of Israel is not a physical object. The buildings and people are physical, they could be destroyed with a nuclear bomb, but that would also destroy the Palestinian people as well. So I suppose you mean that Palestinian armed resistance could end the occupation (of all of former Palestine?). This is a pipe-dream. The PLO tried it from 1964 to 1988 and got nowhere. Hamas tried it from 1988 onwards, and has got nowhere. Israel has the big guns, and will always win in an armed conflict. It was non-violent resistance that got black people their civil rights in the USA, and non-violent resistance that overthrew the white colonial rule in South Africa.

    • echinococcus
      December 20, 2017, 9:30 pm

      Fincham,

      Of course the Zionist entity is illegal: what’s that immortal nonsense you are trying to spread about ” partition plan borders it declared on 14 May 1948″? Declaring anything in the absence of formal permission from the people you colonized is illegal, period. It makes you a colonizer whose butt must be kicked out.
      As for your “oh my they are armed” you sound just like the collaborationists of Nazi occupation.
      You really make the crows laugh with your “non violent South African liberation” nonsense. What are you? Some Pollyanna youngster who only reads fairy tales?

    • Talkback
      December 21, 2017, 7:13 am

      David Gerald Fincham: “… Israel exists as a state because it satisfies the requirements of the Montevideo Convention.”

      De facto. But based on what legitimacy? A referendum? A constitutive people (nationals= citizens)?

      David: “But there is certainly a concept of illegally acquired territory which, as you say, applies in Israel’s case to all territory it has acquired outside the partition plan borders it declared on 14 May 1948.”

      Oh, so only that part has been illegally acquired. How was the other part acquired? Without war and expulsion?

      David: “It has as much right to exist in peace and security as does Israel. ”

      Wait a second. Let us first examine what right Israel has to exist, before declaring that the State of Palestine has “as much right” to exist Palestine. Try to argue that Israel has more right to exist in part of Palestine than the State of Palestine has in all of Palestine. And try not to differentiate between Jews and Nonjews, but base your arguments only on civic and human rights.

      David: “I am not sure what you mean by this phrase. The State of Israel is not a physical object.”

      Like the “destruction” of South Africa under Apartheid. It means the dissolution of its Apartheid regime. Not to confuse with the literal destruction of Palestine, more than 400 villages, more than 1000 mosques since 1947 or the want on large scale destruction of Gaza by the Zionist Apartheid Junta.

      • echinococcus
        December 21, 2017, 8:56 am

        Talkback,

        Like the “destruction” of South Africa under Apartheid

        Agreed. The necessary condition for keeping the scare quotes, though, would be that the Zionist crazies are logical actors, on the whole, and recognize when enough is sufficient and when they have to give up. The “Samson Option” was not popular with South African Whites.

        It means the dissolution of its Apartheid regime

        Agreed on the whole and it certainly would represent progress; I suppose one would also ask the Palestinian people if it also wants its land.

      • Maghlawatan
        December 21, 2017, 10:02 am

        I think it would have to go beyond SA and involve asset transfers. Palestinians continue to be shafted economically by Israel.

      • echinococcus
        December 21, 2017, 11:31 am

        Maghlawatan,

        How about the basic asset, ie the Watan, ie the territory?

      • Maghlawatan
        December 21, 2017, 11:45 am

        SA didnt change the economic structure
        Palestine/Shangri-la should
        The border is meaningless now anyway.
        Full spatial rights for everyone..

      • David Gerald Fincham
        December 21, 2017, 12:41 pm

        TallBack: It was not the State of Israel that obtained control of territory within the partition borders, because the State of Israel was not declared until the Zionists had obtained control over it. They did so by highly illegal means: a campaign of wholesale terrorism, in the words of the British government. There was no legal or moral justification whatsoever for the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine. The Zionists did not have a right to create Israel, but Israel was created and it was recognized by other states. As such, it has a right to continue to exist. But it does not have a right to continue its illegal behaviour, and the next step towards peace and justice for Israelis and Palestinians is for the world to put pressure on Israel to come into line with international law, and end the blockade of Gaza, and the occupation of the West Bank.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 21, 2017, 12:51 pm

        The Zionists did not have a right to create Israel, but Israel was created and it was recognized by other states. As such, it has a right to continue to exist.

        david, you claimed there is no concept in international law of an illegally existing state. could you provide a source in international law for this “right to continue to exist” that you referenced?

      • echinococcus
        December 21, 2017, 3:11 pm

        Fincham,

        There was no legal or moral justification whatsoever for the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine

        Just so! Right! And, let’s add, there is no moral justification for your… lawyerly acrobatics trying to legitimize the survival of that colonialist “creation”. Time to abort.

      • Talkback
        December 21, 2017, 3:43 pm

        David: “It was not the State of Israel that obtained control of territory within the partition borders, because the State of Israel was not declared until the Zionists had obtained control over it.”

        So Israel never obtained control of territory within partition border. Really?

        David: “As such, it has a right to continue to exist.”

        Creation and recognition are not entitlement. And not all countries recognize Israel.

        So far not a single internal legitimation. And in 1947/48 the case was deliberately not transfered to the International Court of Justice, because everybody knew that it wasn’t legitimate.

        Btw. Israel’s declaration not only violated 181 (timing of declaration), but also Sec Res 46 (April 1948.)

      • Mooser
        December 21, 2017, 6:14 pm

        “As such, it has a right to continue to exist.”

        Whatever. That doesn’t mean anybody is obligated to provide it with the means of existing, or guarantee Israel’s existence.

      • Sibiriak
        December 21, 2017, 7:19 pm

        Annie Robbins: [DGF:] The Zionists did not have a right to create Israel, but Israel was created and it was recognized by other states. As such, it has a right to continue to exist.

        david, you claimed there is no concept in international law of an illegally existing state. could you provide a source in international law for this “right to continue to exist” that you referenced?
        ———————————–

        Annie, let me first say how glad I am that you are still posting here. Your clear logic and fighting spirit have always been greatly appreciated.

        To your question:

        Under international law, states that exist have both rights and duties. (Israel clearly exists as a state both de facto and as a widely-recognized UN member state.)

        Among the most important rights accorded to states is the right of self-preservation (self-defense).

        There is widespread consent that the right of every State to self-preservation and the corresponding duty not to prejudice the preservation of other States is to be included among the ‘basic’ or ‘fundamental’ rights. Such a right, according to early commentators, developed as a right to preserve, maintain, and protect a State’s independence, sovereignty, and equality. It is for this reason that some authors regard it as a mere corollary of the preceding rights. Others, on the contrary, see it as the only truly fundamental right of States.

        The existence of a ‘fundamental right to survival’ has been confirmed by the ICJ in a recent advisory opinion relating to the legality of the threat or use of nuclear weapons, which recognized the fundamental right of every State to survival as a basis for admitting its right to resort to self-defence (Legality of the Threat or Use of Nuclear Weapons [Advisory Opinion] [1996] ICJ Rep 226) (Nuclear Weapons Advisory Opinions).

        Oxford Public International Law , “States Fundamental Rights and Duties”

        http://opil.ouplaw.com/view/10.1093/law:epil/9780199231690/law-9780199231690-e1112

        That “fundamental right of survival” of states confirmed by the ICJ would seem to be synonymous with a “right to continue to exist.”

        As noted above, under international law states have duties (obligations) as well as rights. Israel is clearly failing to uphold its basic duties as a state. Israel’s apartheid regime is a crime against humanity which justifies direct UN action against Israel.

        International law sanctions interference in the internal affairs of states to correct extreme violations of law, such as apartheid. However, I don’t believe it ever sanctions efforts to end the existence of a state.

      • Maghlawatan
        December 21, 2017, 10:03 pm

        Sibiriak

        Apartheid always involves the promotion of an economically weak sector of the dominant community at the expense of the shafted community.

        Israel’s economy is lopsided. A relatively small cohort of dynamic Jews generates most of the value. The Palestinians are excluded from the system. More than half of the population generates subsistence levels of income.

        The surplus of the value generated by the small cohort is redistributed. Loot in the form of land and water from the west bank is granted to Israeli Jews.
        Then you have extreme neoliberalism on top.

        Another feature is remittances from Jews overseas for the project of making the desert bloom.

        Under International law Yossi Israeli has a right to stay where he is but he doesn’t have a right to his current level of income.

        The Orthodox and Haredi crowd are a population make weight rather than value generators. This is related to policy choices and the education system. It was more important to hang onto Hebron. Their standard of living would be the most vulnerable to rescaling in a 1SS.
        Israel will fight fanatically for the status quo because of these people.
        But when it loses they will be the victims.

        And we don’t know what will happen then. Nothing in Israel was ever planned.

      • Sibiriak
        December 22, 2017, 4:45 am

        Maghlawatan: Under International law Yossi Israeli has a right to stay where he is but he doesn’t have a right to his current level of income.
        —————————————————–

        A right to a certain level of income? Now that would be something new.

      • Mooser
        December 22, 2017, 12:52 pm

        “That “fundamental right of survival” of states confirmed by the ICJ would seem to be synonymous with a “right to continue to exist.”

        Gee, one might think a distinction would be made between States that can provide that “self-defense” out of their own means and resources, and those “States” who are substantially, in fact existentially, supported by a foreign superpowers,(and/or other organizations) to the tune of billions?
        I’ll withhold my worry about Israel’s “right to continue to exist” until Israel has to do it out of its own resources.

      • Sibiriak
        December 22, 2017, 7:12 pm

        Mooser: Gee, one might think a distinction would be made…
        ——————————

        No such distinction is made, for obvious reasons.

      • Mooser
        December 22, 2017, 7:42 pm

        “No such distinction is made, for obvious reasons.”

        The most obvious being that if that distinction was made, it would discourage or sanction a state (or some other organization with sufficient means) who invades an area with this backing, suppressing the indigenous people, and then calls themselves a “state” who is now entitled to all those rights and existences and self defense, and internal security. We don’t want that, it would practically proscribe colonialism if the distinction was made. Or are we back to calling the Zionist, ummm, effort, ‘self-determination’?

      • Sibiriak
        December 23, 2017, 2:46 am

        Mooser: it would practically proscribe colonialism if the distinction was made.
        ———————————–

        Colonialism has already been proscribed without such a distinction.

        https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_1514

        Under international law, all states have a right to self-preservation, regardless whether they receive foreign aid or not.

        Colonialism is not an act of self-preservation or self-defense, needless to say.

  20. ahadhaadam
    December 20, 2017, 6:47 pm

    And what if the resolution did pass? All these votes in the UN just highlight Arab helplessness and impotence. They could have easily taken concrete steps in a language that Trump understands better than any UN vote: money. Instead they try to mask their impotence by creating a charade and putting their weight behind another toothless UN resolution that doesn’t change anything and is not worth the paper it is written on.

  21. jaspeace2day
    December 20, 2017, 8:45 pm

    First and foremost, as an American, please allow me to apologize for the worthless, incompetent and israeli owned government that we have let into our White House, Senate and Congress. There is a silver lining though: the more what was once covert becomes overt, the more the American people will see the truth of it all and hopefully the rest of the world will see some dramatic changes to our government next voting season; and with the rise of the millennial’s and the thus the demise of our (or rather our government’s) corporate media and the rise of independent media, much will be made clear and change will come crashing down around our government. In the meantime, please hang in there and know that many Americans despise what our government and israeli influence has done to our country. Please feel free to add corporate America to your Boycott Divest & Sanction list along with the israeli terrorist regime illegally occupying Palestine with oppression and apartheid in violation of international law. Thank You from a true American millennial on behalf of millions of millennial’s here in the US and around the world…let’s all seize the day together and evict these warmongering, bought & paid for “governments” out of our sacred halls once and for all…. And thank you Mondoweiss for bringing truth to our world.

  22. catalan
    December 22, 2017, 9:01 pm

    The Middle East is not a place where weakness is tolerated. I suspect that Israel will shortly announce the construction of massive new settlements in the West Bank, just to demonstrate that any pressure will be responded to in kind. So the net result will be settlement, on the one side, and a resolution, on the other.

    • Mooser
      December 23, 2017, 1:04 pm

      “The Middle East is not a place where weakness is tolerated.”

      Exactly. That is why a violent colonial-settlement project motivated solely on religious sentimentality, a manufactured ethnic bigotry, opportunism and a cynical willingness to prey on the problems of Eastern European and other Jews will fail.
      Being completely dependent on remittances doesn’t help, either. And Judaism has no compulsory power.

  23. lonely rico
    December 28, 2017, 10:26 am

    For those who read French, a good article today (Dec. 28) in Montréal newspaper Le Devoir –

    http://www.ledevoir.com/international/actualites-internationales/516311/votes-a-l-onu-sur-jerusalem-quelles-perspectives-pour-une-paix-juste

    • catalan
      December 28, 2017, 10:52 am

      “For those who read French, a good article today (Dec. 28) in Montréal newspaper Le Devoir”
      Thank you – I do read French. Also Spanish, German, Russian, Bulgarian and Macedonian.

      • lonely rico
        January 9, 2018, 9:22 pm

        That’s great – French, Spanish, German, Russian, Bulgarian and Macedonian.
        Wow !

        So what’d’ya think ?

        Is it –

        A good article – Israel should respect international law, UN resolutions, basic human decency ?

        Bad article – Israel should be allowed to destroy, murder and maim Palestinians to make room for (mostly) European Zionists ?

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