Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 25194 (since 2009-07-30 20:11:08)

Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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  • When Hagee vilifies Obama as 'anti-Semitic,' Cruz and Dershowitz don't walk out
    • ok, remind us later tho. i assume it has to get published first for activation to occur.

    • how many conferences and galas can these guys throw and attend. geez louise, between the aipac conference, and israeli american conference, the support iof galas, the zoa galas, it's never ending. gag me with a spoon.

  • Middle East Studies Association affirms members' right to boycott Israeli academic institutions
    • yeah, it's so awesome! sorry it's up late, i wrote it yesterday but for some reason it took me forever.

      the success of the vote represents a lot of sustained effort by bds activists (YEAH!) and the relevancy and impact of these (MESA) scholars willingness to stop cooperating with israeli academic institutions in the future should not be underestimated. it's huge.

  • Elizabeth Warren visits Netanyahu, even as he undermines US negotiations with Iran
    • my sentiments exactly kay. i'm not much of an organizer but i wish there was a campaign, 'bring us a leader not affiliated with the lobby or were staying home on election day!' or something like that. who could lead a campaign like that? this is so disgusting, these anointment trips to israel just to be able to run an american campaign. it's a permanent stain for warren and i won't forget.

    • The analogy to the ‘Protocols’ is exactly the kind of stupidity and ignorance that has contributed to stereotypes being used by racists all over the world

      that's funny, because i thought adelson and saban were exactly the kind of stupidity and ignorance that has contributed to stereotypes being used by racists all over the world .

    • does commenting in the MW comments section give you the right to pose questions

      i'll remember this response the next time you ask me a question. don't get all sanctimonious on us yonah. any american has the right to ask that question. and as just pointed out you are under no obligation to answer.

      It seems as if Weiss cannot write a sentence with Netanyahu in it, that does not include some blame.

      maybe you have not noticed the PM of a certain country w/a "special" access to oodles of press and congress critters keeps blathering his ptv and imposing his opinions where they do not belong dogging obama and the american public at every friggin turn. from his red lines demand that garnered headlines everywhere, prior to the last election (numerous times dominating pre election coverage) to friggin 20 years plus hammering the US to bomb iran i think we got the message if you do not mind. so when netanyahu and the munchkins in israel quit shoveling blame at obama 24/7 and bribing our politicians w/their billionaire's pressuring 'bomb iran!''stronger sanctions!' then your nagging lecturing might have some value, until then it really doesn't as far as i am concerned.

      so we get it, "closest relatives live in Israel". that's the closet thing you came to uttering support for the US any reason whatsoever for taking a side in this crap. so do us all a favor, "stay on the sidelines" now why don't you, instead of hunkering down here in perpetual complaining peanut gallery oversight mode. or do you only plan on staying on the sidelines when the gun are blasting? btw, i don't believe you. you are not on the sidelines now, why should i believe you would be if push came to shove. you're a partisan yonah, definitely not the voice of an american patriot, so don't pretend otherwise.

  • Efforts to suppress Palestinian activism on US campuses won't work
    • . If BDS takes root in USA campuses

      earth to jeff, don't you read the israeli press? bds has already taken root in US campuses and nothing in your fear mongering comment is happening and there's no indication it will happen.

      widespread anti-Jewish demonstrations

      your argument is so weak you resort to these ridiculous hypothesis. even hillel admits they serve only about 1/2 the jewish kids on this one campus (as i recall from one of the articles). so BDS is not an anti jewish movement. you should try building your analysis based on reality, not some comic book fiction.

  • The Minds of Others: An interview with Max Blumenthal
    • People see through that & it repels them.

      poor mj, still stuck on max. i think he can't stand it how famous max has become. but mj should try just speaking for himself as in "i see through that & it repels me". for it's clear mj is repelled by this young leader in the jewish community. max is the pied piper his town's children are flocking after. there appears to be little mj or anyone else for that matter, can do about that. the children raised in good and wholesome and blind jewish zionist families may never return to the ideology in which they were raised. and so what does mj do? he claims people are repelled when in fact it is just the opposite with the pied piper.

  • Debunking Netanyahu's propaganda on Jerusalem
    • and isn’t that just so cute that the use of ‘hasbara’ is welcomed as long as its the ‘right kind’ of hasbara for MW.

      we cover as much hasbara as we can but we don't have the time or resources to cover it all. what other kind of hasbara is there that you think we're avoiding? travel brochures? videos from the mfi? op eds from the nyt? liberal zionist drizzle? seriously, we cover as much as we can from the boringly inane to the most extreme and mind-numbing.

      the Temple Mount status will never change

      let's hope you're right.

    • would that be the same police department that claimed mohammed khdeir's family killed him in some revenge attack because he was gay? the same police who determined there were no dead bodies on nakba day or it wa a staged event by palestinians? or the same government that presides over the military occupation that routinely picks up palestinian children and accuses them of stone throwing w/a 97% conviction rate, the same gov that tortures or threatens children into confessions?

      i could care less what an israeli police investigation determined mayhem. from your article:

      Four male Palestinians, ranging in age from 15 to 17, were arrested for possible involvement in the attack. All of them denied any involvement in the incident.

      you only nitpicked my last comment (everything else I said is irrefutable?)

      do not ever assume my silence implies consent. the evidence of israeli incitement is overwhelming. i have work to do, i don't have time to refute every one of your lies. the 'evidence' your provided for your ridiculous allegations i shot down. i don't have more time for you.

    • And another racist attack against Jews in Jerusalem only a few days ago

      a .. police statement said it might have been "a fight that broke out between the two sides". It added, "all directions still being examined".

      there's no evidence those who allegedly got stabbed didn't start the fight andthe palestinians were defending themselves. the police know nothing so quit making assumptions.

  • Poster questioning Zionism makes her feel 'unsafe', Wellesley student says
    • She could have waxed poetic about Zionism and turned the tide on SJP…but she did not. I wonder why, still.

      because it could not stand up to a decent public scrutiny, she would not be about to defend it.
      you answered your own question such an exchange would reveal Zionism’s ideological architecture and political psychology and run the risk of legitimating the dismantling of Zionism’s core mythologies.

      thanks dan.

    • Again, the group referenced was a Jewish-Arab dialogue group. It was not a Hillel-Arab dialogue group.

      right, and it's just a coincidence hillel funds "intercultural dialogues" and this particular "intercultural dialogues" was also targeted for hillel style civility: "discuss respectfully and without polarizing" uh huh.

      and the haaretz article is all about hillel at Wellesley and it's probably just a coincidence the person for the article is dialoguing with the reporter about a non-hillel activity? come on hops, you can do better than that.

      besides, what about this from haaretz

      The group has decided to focus on building their new chapter, and want “to prioritize public rather than private dialogue,” and divorce religion from political issues, she wrote.

      what's wrong with that. why not open up this talk to the whole campus. what's with making it private if one party doesn't want to? and if sjp or any of their members are not interested in a dialogue with people who don't share their values just respect that.

      this is not a different position from j street and other groups who refuse to debate bds. beinart doesn't either. the decision to not participate is likely political, based on the zionist ideology of the jewish kids.

      and when the church supported divestment a big cadre of rabbis all announced they were quitting or not participating in the interfaith conference (remember, it was a big deal). it was my way or the highway, and they took the highway. so, now someone has set down their own requirements:

      Wellesley's SJP will only engage again in dialogue if several conditions are met, she wrote: if it takes place within the framework of a public, “politically recognized” event, and if all participants agree that Israel’s “occupation and colonization of all Arab lands” should be ended, that “the [separation] wall dismantled,” that the “fundamental rights to full equality of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel” be recognized, and that the Palestinian refugee's right of return be “respected, protected and promoted.”

    • thanks for the link maximus

    • a community task force on the middle east? what tasks did they carry out? and how. from your article:

      "Jewish students want to discuss the Israel-Palestine conflict, she said. “But it is an issue we want to discuss respectfully and without polarizing” the community. SJP leaders “said they were uninterested in these kinds of dialogic conversations,” Hannink said...“They said this was a way for them to be condescended to and controlled,”

      so what does that mean? what are hillel's rules of engagement? according to Eric Fingerhut ceo of Hillel International link to haaretz.com "Hillel students have .."modeled what respectful discourse looks like." hillel students want to be able to set the boundaries (redlines) just like reut 'big tent' (no discussion of apartheid and BDS which crosses the "redline"). how is that not condescending and controlling? "our Israel debate guidelines remain clear" Hillel is sponsoring and promoting "intercultural dialogues" discussion programs to "help students understand the issues"

      Our Standards for Partnership... are designed to ensure ....these commitments ... to Israel. Hillel will not partner with organizations that ...apply a double standard to Israel...Such viewpoints do not represent the values of Hillel International.....activists who created the “Open Hillel” campaign ...calls on Hillel to eliminate its Standards of Partnership in order to provide a platform for organizations [people/individuals] that promote the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement and other anti-Israel activities....Hillel International stands by its Standards of Partnership."

      so please, do not pretend these "intercultural dialogues" promoted by hillel are not all about promoting israel (which hillel is "deeply dedicated").

      you've presented no evidence "Arab students on campus have refused..dialogues with jewish students" because the very same article said those same arab students were members of sjp. and ignore the obvious, sjp is not interested in dialoguing with those students, who are dedicated to israel and whose goal it is to promote israel by hillel's "standards" set by the international hillel overseer. so the more accurate description would be 'Arab students on campus have refused to continue dialogues with hillel jewish students'. quit assuming hillel=jewish. open hillel, different.

      and i find it interesting the the 2 Wellesley hillel staff the students consulted were then fired by Wellesley. it sounds like there's some information missing from the story. and i really find this really interesting and amusing:

      The college administration made the decision unilaterally, “without any input from major stakeholders,” said Miriam Berkowitz Blue, president of the Wellesley Hillel Alumni Board. Wellesley Hillel has some 2,700 alumnae on its mailing list, she said. “It calls into question the oversight of all the endowments and funding,” she said. “It’s opening things up to a lot of larger questions.” Alumnae worldwide have been discussing their concerns, she said, adding that Wellesley Hillel’s assets “are substantial.” she said.

      the college pays their salaries, they work for the college, and the college fires them without consulting hillel stakeholders who respond by allude to cutting off substantial funds to the college. sounds like a threat. hire who we want or else. hmm, that sounds familiar. is that some kind of pattern we're seeing from some organized jewish groups? the ol power of the pocketbook. our way or the highway? boxing em in both front and back. we set the rules of engagement unilaterally and if you make any unilateral moves without consulting us or do things our way, we'll pull substantial assets and it will be your fault. sounds controlling and condescending to me.

    • this is the 'new'/old positioning pro israel students take on campus now, it's their new talking pt. that they are pro palestinians. i'm not sure what think tank came up w/this line but it's transparently stupid. reminds me of the bad mom screaming "i'm beating you cuz i love you so much".

    • i wonder if she heard the news

      IDF trainer: 'No need to give mouth-to-mouth Palestinians'
      972mag.com/idf-trainer-no-need-to-resuscitate-palestinians/99132/

      he said he was given permission to kill people who no longer pose a threat. “They told us that the order regarding someone who stabs, ditches the knife and begins running is shoot to kill. The company commander said he doesn’t want anyone like that ‘to see a judge.

    • just, kids should have an idea of what 100% of our senators support.

    • or if they've been exposed to it they don't know what it means. the mantra that the US and israel share common values has been drilled down everyones throat for so long i'd imagine the very last thing zionists want americans to know about is the zionism. ..because fundamentally, it really does not share the same value wrt nationalism as civic national states, of which the US is, supposedly anyway.

      anyway, that will probably become a lot clearer now that with the new legislation just passed yesterday. argh. not fun!

      but one might think a supporter of israel is proud of zionism. so why not have the hillel on campus give a little "this is how zionism works" workshop/weekend? you'd think they'd be proud of it. or do they think it's a dirty word too? hmm.

      what's next? what do you think of the word democrat? ahhh, i feel unsafe! the gop? ah, stay away you're hurting my feelings!!

    • helping people to indulge in their hateful ignorance.

      hophmi, do you also think that's what frank luntz was doing when he asked about zionism in his poll? helping people to indulge in their hateful ignorance?

      if luntz's poll had said oh, people love that word! then you wouldn't be objecting so much now would you. but luntz is allowed to ask and these students are not? what is that all about? how come the israel project is allowed to ask americans their opinions but college kids can't?

      zionism is a political construct. it's not much different than putting up a poster that says "how do you feel about socialism, or communism, or ethnic nationalism or apartheid any other political construct. if zionsim has a dirty name whose fault would that be?

      Arab students on campus have refused to continue dialogues with JEWISH students

      that is a fabrication, (otherwise known as a lie). everyone knows sjp is made up of a variety of students including jewish students. whereas, i think hillel declares they are supporters of israel as a jewish state as far as i know (and it is a zionist regime is it not). you can't just go making up your own facts so you can call something antisemitic.

      zionism is toxic and everyone knows it. you're on the wrong team. bummer.

    • that's a very smart poster by SJP. it was just last week the luntz poll mentioning zionism is not a popular word in america. people are adverse to that word:

      "‘Zionism’ is now a dirty word for American opinion elite, Frank Luntz concedes "- See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

  • Rightwing flamethrowers see a US role in the battle for Jerusalem
    • i just finished reading the responses/comments to this story about the rabbi over at the forward vs times of israel. radically different. generally at the forward everyone agreed he was nuts, the times of israel almost uniformly agreed w/him. weird.

  • 'Besides not having a job, everything’s great': Steven Salaita on his firing and what comes next
  • 'What is your religion?' question surprises two American visitors to the occupation
    • i read somewhere orthodox jewish women shave all their hair off their heads. eeeks.

    • I wonder what he will say next. Can’t wait!

      we didn't have to wait long for that!

      jack, do you have an alternate source for the alleged "slut" accusation/translation besides caroline glick's publication?

      or know how it turned out, the fatwa of being covered in jordan's religious court?

      The decision raised the ire of the Jordanian Women’s Union, which released a statement on Amman net criticizing the move as discriminatory.

      “Seeing as this decision violates the provisions of the Jordanian Constitution which calls for equality between all Jordanians, and which protects their personal freedoms, we are demanding all the concerned parties to reconsider the decision,” the union said.

      “Women’s attire is a personal choice and no one should challenge it as long as they’re not breaking the law and stepping out of line. An attack on those freedoms is considered a crime and explicitly violates [Jordan’s constitution].”

      The union is calling on authorities to reverse the decision, and lawyers in the Hashemite kingdom are urging nationwide demonstrations against the ruling.

      also, a sharia court is not the same as jordan's civil court. link to jordan.usembassy.gov

    • jack, yes, i did finish reading. you wrote "the blogger..says to wear hijab."

      what part of your new quote supports this statement?

      "most Jordanian women would not wear short sleeves or tight, revealing clothing" ?

      not.

      "Clothing like this invites stares and cat calls and some inappropriate remarks." ?

      earth to jack, there are many people (fathers in particular) who make that claim right here in the US. is this all you've got? some tourist from texas giving advice on how to dress in amman? none of this supports the idea women are supposed to where a hijab in jordan. in fact it says the opposite: "they almost expect western women to wear these things" , meaning tight revealing clothes. i'm sort of over this mini "debate". you lost it btw. jordan is not saudi arabia or iran.

    • But the blogger below has, and she says to wear hijab.

      she say: " And finally, if you do not observe hijab, there is absolutely no reason for you to cover your hair unless you want to."

      did you read the article about the new skate park in amman? they have women skaters there. the photo isaw, no hijab. i think someone is pulling your leg.

      just google "amman fashion" by image link to google.com

  • Palestinian students fear for their lives during attack on train car in Jerusalem
    • jack, all of our articles first appear on the front page. so every article is a front page article at some point. however, this article is not "featured". featured articles are listed in a separate longer column (on the front page right side) and remain on the front page longer. whereas this article (like all articles in our "i/p" list link to mondoweiss.net ) will probably roll off the page by the end of the day as there are only 3 spots available for each category at the base of the page. iow, it's just an ordinary post on mondoweiss and treated like all the others, no different.

      and it is untrue the incident is not anywhere else. it is on a local news site similar to ma'an with listings by local region:

      Radio 19 ° Weather Acre and the region and the region Shfar'am Buttof and the region and the region of Haifa and Nazareth region Triangle Jaffa and the center of Jerusalem

      i just have to access it thru google translate as there is no english version (like ma'an). what's you've written is the equivalent of claiming hebrew only news sources don't count.

      this is also featured on several FB pages.

    • umm, i think the synagogue has gotten a lot of msm attention ivri (saturated). whereas i doubt this event was covered anywhere in english except perhaps some tweets or FB postings. if you have a problem with that go read the mainstream news.

  • The occupied territories are 7000 miles from New Mexico but I felt like I never left home
  • Wall around Bethlehem is Christmas billboard in Atlanta (Update)
    • donald, the image has nothing to do w/a real estate claim (for me). it is saying if a coming messiah was about to be born bethlehem would not be an option. the wall creates a barrier. a barrier to a sanctuary or a place of birth (rejuvenation). it's set in modern time.

      or, it says the story (or myth) of jesus's birth, as we know it, could not happen in modern day. they be turned away or faced with a seeningly impenetrable burden,

      it's a modern tale with a very modern image.

    • wouldn’t it be clever to mix the Nativity scene with an image of the Wall as a way of criticizing Israel

      well, i can't begin to guess what goes thru bansky's mind.you asked a bunch of questions and tried to answer the best i could. it's a hugely popular image. re New Testament passages about “Jews” , i have never read the bible and assume lots of people have lots of different interpretations. but, it is the holy land and taking a position of "using an image from the New Testament" is probably not going to be a universal reaction. i didn't even think of the new testament. i just thought christmas scene, mary and joseph...wall...can't get into bethlehem.

      wrt straying off the reservation, i wouldn't worry too much about it. we just disagree. to me, it's a great piece of art, it does everything art is supposed to do. it never occurred to me it had anything to do w/jews in the new testament.

    • me too marnie! every state in the country, why not!

    • lol ;)

    • donald, if you're interested in how christianity got 'dragged' into this, do some research on how much time, energy and money israel has spent wooing the christian zionist community. christianity is already in thick and this last year there were many church divestment resolutions.

      that said, this image is hugely popular:

      And here are the top 15 most viewed posts published in 2013*:

      15. Adelson says Obama should fire ‘atomic weapon’ at Iran, not negotiate by Philip Weiss

      14. Just because you like bubbly water, you don’t have to buy into occupation: A guide to alternatives to SodaStream by Henry Norr

      13. BBC to censor violinist Nigel Kennedy’s statement about Israeli apartheid from TV broadcast by Tom Suarez

      12. Do’s and don’ts for progressives discussing Syria by Ramah Kudaimi

      11. Israeli pours putrid skunk gas over homes in occupied Palestine by Philip Weiss

      10. Mohammed Assaf IS Arab Idol!!! by Annie Robbins

      9. Natalie Portman and Woody Allen see anti-Semitism as pervasive by Philip Weiss

      8. Attack in Tel Aviv: ‘Jewish girls do not go out with Blacks!’ by David Sheen

      7. Dershowitz calls Hawking an ‘ignoramus,’ a ‘lemming,’ and likely an anti-Semite by Philip Weiss

      6. Zombie Hasbara: ‘World War Z’ and Hollywood’s Zionist embrace by Jesse Benjamin

      5. Obama told friends he reneged on progressive promises out of fear of assassination — former CIA analyst by Philip Weiss

      4. Amina Tyler’s naked activism by @WomanUnveiled

      3. ‘The bra is a security threat’: Harassment and interrogation at Ben Gurion airport by Anonymous

      2. Palestinian-American student denied entry to Israel after being told, ‘there is no such thing as Palestine’ by Yara Karmalawy

      1. The reviews are in: ‘Zero Dark Thirty makes me hate muslims’ by Adam Horowitz

      * Special mention to Annie Robbin’s post Joseph and Mary can’t make it to Bethlehem, on Banksy’s Christmas card, which actually was the most viewed post of the past year — over 168,000 views! – although it was published in 2012.

      Thanks again for all your support and see you in 2014!

      - See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

      and that post (linked above in the main article on top of the page) has had 10's of thousands of extra hits since adam wrote that last dec 31. it's way into over 200k now. however, it is no longer "the most viewed post". everyone will just have to wait until dec 31 to find out what is. but, given the holiday season is upon us, our original post from 2012 may get hit heavy again. we were literally getting 10's of thousands of hits every single day leading up to christmas last year on that one post. people really like that image. it resonates with many many christians and seculars too. probably muslims also. not sure how popular it is among people of other faiths.

      What the hell does it even mean?

      put on the ol thinking cap donald. or just go look at the comment section of the 2012 article.

    • i hope you send one to me ;)

      thank you john. so much.

  • Some reflections on the 5th anniversary of Kairos Palestine
  • Israel's biggest newspaper poses a racist question as reasonable
    • as soon as we finish clearing the comments and finishing up on these drafts i'm sure someone around here will have the time to go over the the news site and copy/paste the front page and throw it all in google translate to find the link and locate the poll to get those results for you. just kidding! ;)

      maybe someone who speaks hebrew can find it easier..

    • yes the major of ashkelon has fired all the cites arab workers from construction near parks and schools. i started a draft and got distracted.

  • George Lopez turns into a Christian Zionist hack
    • it is noteworthy that this kind of racism only affects white women.

      no it doesn't. it reflects very poorly on the latino women portraying them as intolerant crude racists. i watched it yesterday and thus i don't recall it all but there were also crude stereotypes of latino men in the clip. the whole thing is crude and distasteful and perpetuates crude stereotypes.

    • nah, it's all there in black&white. hollywood makes minortiies do weird things for success.

  • Israel lost the British elite after Gaza onslaught, UK ambassador says
    • armed arab Iranian islamic front

      oh my. that's a tall order.

    • yeah, if he wasn't wearing a kippa i don't know how or why they would assume he was israeli or even jewish. it could have been a common mugging, or attempted mugging that is. from your second link there was also this:

      Visitors to Berlin attacked in the Tiergarten
      Only on Wednesday evening of last week was a visitor to Berlin in Tiergarten in the middle by two unidentified men beaten and seriously injured. The attackers had the 41-year-old from North Rhine-Westphalia against 20 clock beaten unconscious and robbed in the parking area.

      According to police, the victim was attacked between the maple riser and the Bremen way of the perpetrators. As the tourist came to himself, the attackers had disappeared with his rolling suitcase. The 41-year-old had to be treated with a concussion in a hospital. The perpetrators were never identified so far, the investigation of a robbery Commissariat continue.

      perhaps they were asking the israeli for his money and when he didn't hand it over they beat him up and left. whereas the other man they took his suitcase. perhaps they are amateur muggers and not adept at stealing money off the person. perhaps the israeli had his money in a money belt. i have no idea.

    • were there any witnesses or arrests? that is frightening if it occurred as is reported.

  • Hate attacks in Jerusalem and Israel include one by settler girls
  • 'Palestine is an anxiety' for Americans-- Salaita in New York
    • can't stop laughing

    • lol, no wonder you didn't quote him originally. you crack me up. let me be the first to say i wished they'd all go missing too (lost somewhere one the other side of the green line would be a good start), but ah....contrary to your ultimate wisdom opinion, i really do not wish they'd all be stabbed to death or shot. for one thing, there's are probably a lot of very innocent little children there. and secondly, i have an aversion to blood, death and murder.

    • because his tweet was less direct, that does increase its civility.

      i assume your innuendo means you think a tweet of salaita's indirectly stated "i wish all the settlers were stabbed or shot to death "

      could you please direct us to that tweet or quote it so we can fully comprehend your meaning please. and i don't think salaita is advocating increasing civility at all, but that's another point i suppose.

    • some US arabs? ah, i think there are a few more americans who feel anxiety over Israel. like say the 10's of thousands strong church divestment movement.

  • South African activists reflect on parallels between life under apartheid and Israel/Palestine today
    • There is no way to force an analogy between SA and Israel

      that's the beauty of having the truth on your side. there's no need to force the idea at all because when people hear the truth they gravitate towards it naturally. it's rather irrelevant whether you agree with it or not because it's so obvious to everyone else. no need to force that, no forcing going in.

  • First they came for the Palestinians . . .
    • kay, and thank you so much for your great comments, support, and especially sending us awesome timely tips and updates so regularly!

    • how is suffering the horrors of war ever "merely"? death is final. tragic needless suffering is not 'mere'.

    • thnx david

    • please tell us snarking cigargod!

    • that's so sweet mnbeshara, thank you. and much appreciated and please come back and comment more sometime.

    • regarding free speech, we have a comment policy here link to mondoweiss.net

      your cryptic explanation/excuse for your "so-called holocaust" verbiage violates our comment policy. you've been warned. and there will be no next time for me editing your comments to make them publishable by our standards, i'll trash them as i am sure any other moderator would have done. there is no such thing as the "so called" holocaust. it was a holocaust, and jews don't own it because they coined the term. you want exclusivity, don't pick a crime that was not exclusive.

    • This is exactly what the Zionists want to keep their “we are the victims of the greatest crime in history” narrative up and going.

      there's nothing in the poem that suggests the holocaust was the greatest crime in history.
      the lessons from the holocaust are not primarily about jews. it is about how normal people become accomplices to horrendous crime, and in the case of that crime jews were by no means the only victims.

      the original poem:

      First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist;

      Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist;

      Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist;

      Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew;

      Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me.

      jews don't own the holocaust. 40 million civilians died in ww2 60mil including militaries and i've seen figures much higher. genocide in palestine threatens many more people than palestinians. if the mosque is destroyed we could be facing ww3. one lesson we can take from the holocaust, and ww2, is that with the advancement of technology and fanatical ideologies allowed to run amok, is that each passing decade, each passing century, runs the risk of higher casualties in any future catastrophies. the holocaust was not the greatest crime known to mankind because evil has always existed. it is that we must be more vigilant as the advancement of technology (not just weaponry but communication, surveillance, advanced methods of propaganda and tools of deception aimed at the citizenry) creates an environment in which a greater threat becomes inevitable.

      as leunig said, the poem is universal and eternal. it's certainly not owned by jews nor was it written by a jew. and it's no more about the holocaust than it is about future genocides. the lessons of a genocide are not, and should never be, in the purview of a portion of it's victims. that is simply absurd. it was a key feature in a world war and it was not won by zionists. i had family members who gave their lives fighting that war so as far as i am concerned whatever lessons can be drawn from it i have as much right to as anyone else related to those 60 million. and if the coming century brings about a war or wars with more casualties it will be only us to blame, those of us who saw it coming and remained silent.

      when the poem was written who would have known that a central victim on that list would include central oppressors in this centuries crimes against humanity (likely not the author)? that's a lesson no one expected to learn from the holocaust but that's what we're looking at. it's another reason why the memory and the lessons learned from genocide cannot and should not be in the sole purview of the jewish community. we (humanity) fought it, we all own it. it's a human lesson.

    • citizen,it occurs to me maybe they are stinging from the UCLA loss and taking it to mattress. i really have no idea.

      i'll cheer when someone drives a stake thru the heart of israeli hasbara. there's only so much of this...

    • oyvey has a tag team w/a similar i/p address whose 3rd temple bs "explanation" just got trashed/notpublished. let's see how oyvey responds to this simple inquiry. this could very well be a case of some looneytune religious nutcase(s) best efforts. whatever he (they) are up to it's not very smart.

      reminds me of 'Common Dreams’ website traps Hasbara troll spewing anti-Semitism' story. link to mondoweiss.net

      and interestingly i generously edited oyvey's comment above. originally he wrote
      "so-called holocaust". this is so amateur i'm not sure the protocol. sloppy trolling.

    • wow, thanks lysias. actually i recall that now that you mention it.

    • i agree american. this is the largest most long-running refugee crises in the world today. if we all join forces we can end it and it is our moral duty to do so. i've already chosen my next effort, people i hope and pray have not been genocided by the time i can afford the time and effort. there are so many disasters in the world, but it's palestine's turn. we can't give up nor be distracted. it's the core of holy land and we have to find resolution or the repercussions from the fall out could have consequences far beyond the unimaginable.

    • please explain how the cartoon assumes the Holocaust to be the moral standard on human suffering.

    • a more accurate description of what giles? a conversation americans should have?

    • thanks tiny. it must be just my computer. of course i can access them, i just can't detect them sans scrolling.

    • my pleasure gracie. i love the cartoon.

      as an aside, could you (or anyone) let me know if you can visually identify the embeds in "ironically" and "immediately besieged" without scrolling over them. because i can't see them and i'm wondering it it's just me.

  • Revisiting 'Graveyard of Numbers': Israel refuses to return remains of Palestinian militants as a punitive measure
    • Those who do not share those values and hold the belief that such acts are inconsistent with someone who is guided by a God full of compassion and mercy, do not use the word ‘martyr’ to describe such gruesome act.

      not necessarily. for example, in the case of last summer when the iof slaughtered hundreds and hundreds of innocent civilians. they merely blamed the militants of their opponents (many of whom were parents and relatives and loved ones of those same innocents) and absolved themselves as easy as washing their hands clean after an evening meal. you may have noticed those who died in the process of slaughtering those children were regarded (by some) as heroes who died for a cause.

      frankly, it's hard for me to take people like you seriously. the hypocrisy is stunning.

      i noticed your 'heart went out' to the one little girl killed in gaza that, according to PCHR, was killed when a rocket misfired link to mondoweiss.net and not another word about any of the hundreds of little children slaughter in cold blood by israel last summer. your remorse is not accepted.

    • are you crazy? maybe you don't know the common definition of link to merriam-webster.com

      martr 1mar·tyr noun \ˈmär-tər\
      : a person who is killed or who suffers greatly for a religion, cause, etc.

      here's another:

      : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle

      even those violent crackpot thrusting around with knives at the wedding, link to mondoweiss.net if they attacked and killed arabs solely because they were palestinians, to make the "land of israel" free of muslims and/or arabs, and were killed as a result the chances they would be considered martyrs by their own kind is 100%. regardless of having distain for killings or any racist nature behind them it is inevitable people who are part of that same cause will consider the sacrificial aspects and conclude the act one of martyrdom, just like they did w/goldstein. i or you can't change the definition merely because you find the action despicable. it has nothing to do w/my personal feelings, this is the definition.

      if you care to argue the cousins had no ulterior motive in relation to the surrounding events wrt the liberation of palestine or the mosque or, say if one was a jealous lover and had some personal beef with one of the people killed having to do with money or something like that, have at it. but if someone does something for a cause and personally suffers, or is willing to sacrifice ones life for that cause that is the definition of a martyr. as a stated earlier i think it is undoubtably clear goldstein died as a martyr to a cause, i (or you) can’t change that no matter how i personally feel about a crime. - See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

      what's next! are you going to accuse me of justifying what goldstein did? seriously, you are spamming this thread. you asked me why i used the term and i told you. enough with this stupidity!

    • Very very few in Israel viewed Goldstein as a hero

      excuse me? from the wiki page

      Goldstein's gravesite became a pilgrimage site for Jewish extremists.[7] Upon the tomb, the following words are inscribed: “He gave his life for the people of Israel, its Torah and land.”[6] In 1999, after the passing of Israeli legislation outlawing monuments to terrorists, the Israeli Army dismantled the shrine that had been built to Goldstein at the site of his interment. The tombstone and its epitaph, calling Goldstein a martyr with clean hands and a pure heart, was left untouched.[8]

      it has nothing to do being "officially" recognized. i can't speak for palestinians, but it's my understanding anyone dying as part of their struggle for liberation is considered a martyr. the synagogue massacre was carried out as related to the struggle. and i am not the only person who feels like that,it's widely understood. and it seems fairly certain lots of orthodox jews consider the attack at the synagogue as part of the resistance too: link to facebook.com to the perpetrators their actions were likely related to al aqsa mosque. also, it was the synagogue where the father of one the killers of mohammed khdeir worshipped. it was thought out, and logically they undoubtably assumed their actions would lead to their death and they chose to sacrifice their lives for a cause.

      goldstein's massacre, as horrendous as it was, was carried out in his mind and the mind of his followers as a (his) sacrifice for a cause. it wouldn't be in the same category as say, the columbine massacre. this is the definition of a martyr, is it not? i think it is undoubtably clear goldstein died as a martyr to a cause, i (or you) can't change that no matter how i personally feel about a crime. and he will go down in history as a martyr to his cause regardless of whether he is "officially" designated as such (which i am sure he is behind many closed doors of certain officials in israel).

    • cigar god, speaking of extent of practice, there's a b'tselem report up thread, i have not read it yet.

    • yes we are all well aware israel interrupts funeral processions and starts shooting tear gas and other weapons sometimes killing people.

      No nation in the world can allow such heinous acts like those perpetrated in Jerusalem this week to sway its resolve

      don't act like you're so special. we've got plenty of horrendous attacks in this country, including school massacres and stuff. it doesn't justify collective punishments with all your hamas hamas hamas evil evil stuff as israel cranks up the tension and rhetoric day in and day out.

      why don't you calm your nerves by reading about israeli pr porn:

      "After Jerusalem attack, Netanyahu hopes 'PR porn' will win support abroad"
      link to haaretz.com

    • just, i have not read EI's article, but forensic architecture wrote us days ago - we started a draft ...just behind that's all.

      walid, i was aware israel and hezbollah have made many trades over the years (excellent tour guides at mleeta), but i didn't recall or had not heard of some of the exchanges you mentioned. thank you.

    • Israel was held to ransom over the bodies of three of their soldiers in 2004, having to barter hundreds of convicted terrorists in exchange

      doesn't that indicate the intention of keeping the remains was for the return of their living? what, pray tell, is one to think about the headline? what is one to think about the "unprecedented move"?

      This is apparently the first time that Israel has withheld the bodies of terrorists as a deterrent measure.

      ..... Attorneys Sigi Ben-Ari and Andre Rosenthal of the Center for the Defense of the Individual, who have been involved in a number of cases in which terrorists’ bodies were returned to their families, don’t recall a previous instance of the state stating outright that it was withholding bodies as a punishment or deterrent.

      and what is your evidence, or any evidence at all that keeping the remains would deter a crime? there is none! it's all conjecture used to manipulate peoples minds. because we know very well hamas will not return the remains of the israeli soldiers unless some prisoners, or some of the 500 people abducted during israel june/july pogrom on the palestinians in west bank are released. it's highly unlikely.

      Israel has to find ways to give less and less opportunity to potential murderers to gain from their evil acts.

      iow, you wouldn't object to anyone creating less and less opportunity for potential jewish murderers to gain from their evil acts. and by what methods should one pre identify the border guard who shot the boy in cold blood on nakba day? or 16 yr old abu khdeir. so many more palestinians are slaughtered by israel than in reverse, would you advocate killing little jewish children as collateral damage too? please don't talk to us about evil acts. not after last summer. go dig the mote out of your eye while lecturing us on the virtues of collective punishment.

    • hops, what definition of blood libel are you using? it's my understanding from what nadya wrote, what she was told was that the court sentenced "the individual" (judged actions he committed while alive). it doesn't say in the text they tried his corpse. they kept it from the family until the man's sentence was fulfilled. and there's no blood in the story at all or any accusation any jew killed anyone. not sure how that qualifies as a blood libel. or has the definition been expanded?

      it also might interest you to know the haaretz article did reference the court wrt the final decision on the withholding of remains. link to haaretz.com

      “We can’t commit to a certain date [for returning the bodies],” Chief Inspector Yigal Elmaliah, who was representing the Israel Police, told the court. “There are two aspects, the investigative aspect, which the court has seen, and another aspect that I’m not sure I’m authorized to report. For this reason we are arguing that this isn’t the forum to discuss it. ...... One possibility being considered is not to return the bodies to the families, but [for the state] to bury them. The issue is being examined at the highest levels.”

      one assumes they'd get a life sentence. so if the state decides to bury them do you think they will also make the location known? with a headstone or plaque? otherwise what we're quibbling about here is the name of the graveyard. but to palestinians, it's essentially the same thing. where's the bloodlibel hops?

    • i just didn't see the point of headlines claiming this was a "first". more like 'first time they used this hasbara on an all too common practice.' as if the practice is somehow going to make jewish lives safer! can you imagine if hamas tried advertising the idea they were holding jewish remains to deter israel from bombing them!!! no one would believe that for a second. what a farce, israel will bomb the hell out of them, as the did last summer, to prevent live jewish hostages. what's the chance jewish remains would make them rethink that policy? deterrence my a**.

  • 'You don't want us to breathe!': Video captures everyday frustration of life under occupation in East Jerusalem
    • But perhaps this is Phil’s vocation for MW to turn it mostly into a magazine format

      primarily, as always, phil writes. he's not really into making these kinds of decisions or changes. in a perfect world this "conflict" for total lack of a better word (war on palestinians perhaps) is over and done with, phil just wants to go write a novel. the changes happening here are not by his initiative. the ultimate goal is to reach as many people as possible. sometimes, and perhaps so,that comes at the expenses of our commenters. for this i am very very sorry. for me, the comment section is very important. but ultimately my goal too has always been to expand our readership. but these decision, i am not sure how they are made. but i am pretty sure they are not made by phil. he's not exactly ferdinand under the tree, but he's beyond concerning himself with the formatting.

      it gets frustrating i know, but inthe long run lets hope it serves to attract more readership.i hope you and everyone hangs in there. change is ...difficult..challenging.but there's only one goal,to reach more people. xx cross your fingers.

    • not sure they "removed" it per se. i think when they went w/the new design everything had to be added, from scratch, and for some reason that wasn't. not sure what or why of that.

    • we miss you taxi! i really miss you. and i miss hostage too.. and others missing in action...

      and let this be a reminder to everyone. please write phil and adam instead of(or along with) making your voice heard about the edit function missing from the comments.

    • joe, just scroll on and click the middle of the video. it works for me.

    • how traffic violations etc (unpaid because people can not afford) escalate into huge fines, arrest then jailing. How towns like Ferguson etc thrive on police writing up tickets for small violations and then grow into huge fines, complications.

      omg, i wonder if there was some cross cultural influence trveling in the opposite direction when american cops got 'security-trained'in israel.

    • thanks for the link bumblebye!

    • me too just. i probably wouldn't be alive if i had to endure this for very long.

    • LOL: If the Arabs don’t like it, they’re always free to leave Israel.

      that's the whole point of treating them so miserably! you must think we're really daft.

    • his voice, his exasperation. and when i read the other day the police were out in force giving everyone traffic tickets i just thought, is there no end to this harassment? be it petty or be it home invasions and demolitions and executions, it's from every angle.

  • 'My friends, with us tonight is the face of the Holocaust': Boteach talks Israel, Palestine, and genocide with Wiesel and Power
  • One week in Jerusalem and -- it's not complicated
    • john, i quoted you in an article i wrote today. ;)

      link to mondoweiss.net

    • The pathologists at Abu Kabir say suicide, but since they have been caught engaging in organ harvesting they have no credibility.

      i made this point to hops last night but i forget which thread. have not been back to check his (or anyones) response. why would the guy bother hanging himself in a bus? i read somewhere(some news article) he had been requesting video protection on his bus, it was the only one without it. and he was complaining to the company at the time he was murdered.

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