Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 25523 (since 2009-07-30 20:11:08)

Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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  • Palestinian UN effort seeks to set 'terms of reference' for negotiations and promote shift away from US leadership
    • i think it is because they are three members of the security council and they are trying to put together a version no one will veto. and i agree this sounds awfully water down. but one of the salient points (i suppose) is that it asked for an immediate settlement freeze and if it is not vetoed by the security council as soon as israel builds one more thing in the region designated in the resolution (assuming there is a designated region) israel will be in violation of the security council. or something. and as you may recall the last time the US vetoed the settlement resolution, so if they do not this time then it paves the way, possibly, legally, for parties to sanction israel. or something.

      so, they way i see it this particular move re this resolution is that it is affiliated with and acting simultaneously with the geneva stuff (which is why i merged them in my un/kerry/palestine article the other day) and the result of the combination of the 2 sets up a situation in which outside actors can legal take retribution against israel for violating a whole slew of things if they do not behave. i see it as european countries having legal cover for what they may do and what they keep threatening to do (sanctions).

  • Israel will lose all American Jews but the crazies
    • I would point out that the big 3bill in loan guarantees for military are a huge source of income generators for the US military contractors that would not take losing out very lightly. The last I checked the owners of the big US military/Indust corps are not so many Jews. (your implication that only rich Jewish and Zionist billionaires would keep Israel afloat-especially when the 3bill only reps a tiny % of gdp (and I for one favour ending a large proportion of US military loan guarantees.) - See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

      oh wow. that's just what this country needs, dumping more money into military contractors. let me give you a little info that may not ever had occurred to you. those workers for the military contractors? the grunts and their bosses to? maybe they'd like to take a vacation? y'know, it's our money and we could just hand it over to them without having them have to do anything at all. if we want to give anyone 3 billion, what's the advantage to us to funneling it thru israel?

      i mean seriously. if i have $100 and i say to you..i will give it to you if you spend it hiring my son. so the son works for the day and you give him the $100. and then you run an ad in the paper and say wow, i generated all this money for your family!! how much brains does it take to figure out i could just give the friggin money to my son and let him take the day off? especially given the fact that the way i got the money in the first place is because my son worked for it?

      you get what i am saying? this is our tax dollars, we work for it. and we give it to big daddy feds and they give it to you and you hire the same friggin people who worked for it to begin with.

      so frankly, wrt the US military contractors that would not take losing out very lightly. , they wouldn't be losing a GD thing if the feds just gave them the money instead of giving it to you.

      do you think we're stupid?

      and wrt to my so called "implication" according to you wrt "Jewish and Zionist billionaires" . there's a hella lot more money being shoveled to israel out of this country besides that 3 bill. that 3 bill is from our taxes, lots of poor people's taxes. whereas the american "Zionist billionaires" who keep Israel afloat-especially when the 3bill only reps a tiny % of gdp - that money rips off the american people because when they shovel money to the idf or illegal settlements they do it thru tax deductible foundations so it actually BYPASSES the feds. the money building those settlements is a lot more than the 3 bill, and yes, americans are paying thru the teeth with their hard earned cash who pay taxes.

      ps, i know very well it's not only "Zionist billionaires" who keep Israel afloat. israel is afloat because it steals land and resources, because it has a captive market under occupation that israel shovels all it's surplus to. 1/2 the population lives on 1/10th the water that israel steals from it and sells back too them, and the list goes on and on and on.

      not only that, when israel slaughters thousand people and destroys whole neighborhood in one of it's ritual genocidal sadistic lawn mowings and the global community donates billions to rebuild it israel demands all that money goes thru them and reaps the profit off of every single badge of cement. so we are well aware here how israel keeps afloat. israel profits from slaughtering people. we know ok? we get it.

      and bds is going to be putting a little damper on that. ;) the little macho macho man wimp who lives off death and theft, that party gonna crash one of these days.

    • Besides, the political-support needs of Israel have changed too – early in its life Israel was dependent, politically and financially, on a wall to wall support of American Jews. The situation in this regard has in fact been normalized

      i totally agree ivri, in fact israel could still go on being financially dependent with very little jewish american support as long as team adelson and his like kind cohorts in lobby keep all those congress critters on the trough for eternity israel can keep on keepin' on being dependent on handouts waaaay into the future. they don't need no stink in' wimpy leftie support, or the youth either heck no.

    • oh man like dabakr, we so - like - get how macho israelis are. mean like macho is so where it's at man. never having to explain or say i'm sorry cuz yer al so happening. hey, have you seen the new hipster ad from naftali bennet? wow, like so like so cooool

      link to newrepublic.com

      can’t wait to see them jump all over you for that assessment.

      zzzzz

    • Israel is Real and those strong in heart guard Israel, do the heavy lifting

    • LOL. i so love yossi gurvitz!

    • you've been prescient and one step ahead in framing this inevitable parting of the ways phil. great run down.

  • Omar Barghouti: What Mondoweiss Means To Me
  • You don't have to suffer alone . . . the CIA is here for you
    • he's probably trying to protect himself after the fact. yoo is a criminal and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, side by side with dick cheney. yoo is the ultimate enabler, the man responsible for providing the legal cover for torture.

  • 'NYT' writer takes Salaita's side, saying U of Illinois violated 'intellectual and academic freedom'
  • Memo to Sen. Warren: More young Dems want US to side with Palestine than Israel
    • i can't stop laughing!

    • ellen, it's supposed to be up today. i won't be able to see it because my access doesn't show me what you see, so i can't check it. but from what we know on our end it should be up. so give it a couple hours. sorry again.

    • ellen, thank you for saying something about that pop up (that doesn't go away !!! ). i wrote adam and phil about it and adam wrote back and said "i didn't realize that" and that he would look into it. i also inquired about the edit function and his response was "the edit function is coming back, i believe the programmers are working on it now. "

      sorry.

  • Yes, Virginia, there is a liberal Zionist
    • it doesn't make sense to me someone would write an article w/a theme that there is no such thing as 'liberal' zionism if they considered a zionist and a liberal. or something. my head is spinning.

    • for the record, i accept the existence of Israel as an established fact too. i think one would have to be delusional not to accept it's there. that doesn't mean i think it will always be there or support it always being there.

      i think anyone would be a fool to deny the Zionist wing of the Jewish establishment has prevailed in the struggle against the anti-Zionist wing. obviously. but that doesn't mean tides don't move in and out throughout history. it doesn't mean they are "utterly squashed". in fact last i heard lots of the youth are turning away from zionism.

    • Even the American Council of Judaism now describes itself as a supporter of Zionism

      except they didn't really describe themselves as a "supporter of zionism" now did they. you even said yourself it "seems to have accepted zionism as a fait accompli" how did that morph into describes itself as supporting zionism?

      The council has since moderated its stance and accepts Israel and Zionism, but views them as irrelevant to the lives of American Jews. According to its statement of principles, “the State of Israel has significance for the Jewish experience. As a refuge for many Jews who have suffered persecution and oppression in other places, Israel certainly has meaning for us. However, that relationship is a spiritual, historical, and humanitarian one – it is not a political tie. As American Jews, we share the hope for the security and well being of the State of Israel, living in peace and justice with its neighbors”. Allan C. Brownfeld, the editor of the AJC’s magazine, said that “I think we represent a silent majority. We are Americans by nationality and Jews by religion. And while we wish Israel well, we don’t view it as our homeland.”

      maybe you think "accepting" something as being a supporter of it. whereas if i say 'i accept you but think it are irrelevant' it's not quite the same as supporting you now is it. sort of like you saying 'i accept there are worshippers of judaism who are not zionists but they are irrelevant' you're not really coming off as supporting them, just accepting they exist. for the sake of argument one could use anything to prove their point which is what it seems you have done. and saying, as they did "israel has meaning for us" is rather vague. i mean isreal has meaning for me too. doesn't mean i support it as an apartheid state or at all actually. it sounds like the kind of statement one would submit to get out from under a lawsuit or something.

      and what is the meaning of this However, that relationship is a spiritual, historical, and humanitarian one – it is not a political tie.

      how does that buttress your argument they support zionism, a political construct?

      but it seems to me your point here in this particular comment(a point you have made several times now) is in even co-oping the very author of the article (who clearly does not appear as a support of zionism) as evidence to buttress your point. you can't even leave them alone. your conference of jewish whatevers aside, you're even putting the American Council of Judaism in your conquered column.

      either way it looks like they got bullied, but the chance all these people transformed into supporters of zionism seems far fetched.

      That last paragraph doesn’t give the impression that the ACJ is now anti-Zionist. It seems to have accepted Zionism as a fait accompli.

      - See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

      it seems to you. beauty is not the only thing in the eyes of the beholder.

    • i 2nd that, happy hanaukah to everyone celebrating!

    • without assuming your hypothesis or interpretation (re: "greatly outnumber") is correct sean, because i don't know and don't care, either way, i couldn't agree more. however, that was not my complaint (my point). iow, you are either willfully ignoring what i stated, or you are simply too dense to figure it out. as you can see, i have eliminated your questions because i'm not interested in being interrogated by you. especially since, once again, you've completely ignore my point and not addressed it at all.

    • yes of course jon. as i've mentioned many times i am not religious nor have i ever had much interest in reading about religion. but i have a deep respect for the religious, many of them and many of my ancestors (immediate, i don't really know anything about who they were thousands of years ago, or care) were religious social activists, some who died violent deaths for their service to humanity as men of the cloth. i think, logically, many of the greatest people who have walked the earth have been religious people and some of the greatest minds are those of faith. and i simply refuse to succumb to the idea that a political construct has the power to take down a major religion that has shaped mankind. i won't do it for christianity, islam or judaism. and i know , or i should say don't know, as much info about one as the other which amounts to very little. still i have faith in mankind which requires me to have faith great minds will, thru their religion, bring out the best in others and not the worst.

      hence, it is difficult for me to facilitate a conversation seeking to degrade the core of any religion although i have nothing but complete contempt for those who use their religion to subjugate, demean, oppress and kill others. anyway, obviously i am not a fan of zionism and i believe it is a cancer on the body of judaism. but i do not believe it has the power to consume the host nor will i empower zionism by facilitating that concept. yes, there is a power struggle. it is easier for me to moderate a conversation with islamophobes regarding islam but i'm not qualified really to judge intricacies of what is at the core of religious belief because i don't really know or care what is at the core of religions. i get bored reading about them. these names all symbolize relationships in mankind i don't believe they are real people. anyway, i am rambling. i'm in the odd position of protecting judaism or islam or whatever. i've asked someone else to step in and make these decisions on this thread. it's over my head.

      also, i think it's an interesting conversation and one worth having and exploring. but not at the expense of having one person with one very strong view interrogating everyone else and pressuring their own views constantly and repeatedly. it's more interesting or possibly more helpful for others to be able to take the conversation in varying directions (perhaps as it pertains to the article at the top of the page, ya think!) vs everything filtered thru one dominating/repetitious viewpoint/voice.

    • it was just a question citizen c. sorry i ask, you.

    • hi sean, i'm done moderating your comments in this thread because i'm not qualified to judge where attacking a religion (or claiming it's insignificant and completely consumed by a political construct) crosses the line into attacking the worshipers of a that religion given my repulsion for your determination to insist judaism is completely consumed by zionism, or whatever it is you repeat constantly. . or whatever. so i have written phil and adam and they will either show up and clear them or not. frankly, it sounds anti semitic to me and i'm done with reading them.

    • Page: 255
    • much to do about little? any chance he wanted to malign him in 2000? dig up old history and discredit him?

    • sean, i noticed jon s cited a passage for you upthread after you said you were interested in “the dominant spiritual history and essence of Judaism” and “the Jewish universal spiritual tradition.” and claimed "Old Testament is certainly not a universalist document"

      For universalist values you can start here:

      “…and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift the sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)

      - See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

      yonah also mentioned some things. i am curious if you're interested in exploring ways in which the old testament might not be, as you claim, certainly not universalistic. what do you think of jon's quote? other than just ignoring it or asking another question to confirm your own extremely oneside view or to say it's simply irrelevant and has no significance in today's world. was there anything at all in what yonah or jon s said that you found meaning in?

  • PA to seek UN Security Council resolution giving Israel two years to end the occupation
  • Caroline Glick melts down with European diplomats
    • lol, that's a funny claim jack. all anyone has to do read seafood's archives (click name tag) to know that's sillystupid. phff.

    • beautiful

    • LOL omg! let me guess, they will be monitoring bds activists? something tells me this could back fire. ;)

      btw, i am so retro i don't know what an app is. probably an application. is it like a mini browser filled with info. i should find out. i am so non-techie. lol

      ok for a little nighttime wonderland, mr wonderful miracle himself:

    • She’s not a diplomat, Annie. The other guy is. She’s an op-ed writer. She doesn’t owe any duty of diplomacy.

      you're right, she doesn't. it begs the question then why the jerusalem post would choose to include her as one of only 5 participants in this important panel at the Jerusalem Post Diplomatic Conference. certainly they must have someone in their employ familiar with israel's relationship with europe who could provide both challenging and provocative engagement AND be diplomatic at the same time? since they're billing this thing as a Diplomatic Conference? no?

      Are Palestinians with widely read columns in Al-Hayat al-Jedida privileged?

      in the arena of Al-Hayat's influence, absolutely.

      also, i'm sort of over discussing this w/you hops. you can have the last word.

    • first of all, i didn't discuss her face once (i discussed her expressions which are a reflection of her mind) and everyone knows when it is relaxed she is an attractive woman as it clear by just visiting her twitter feed or seeing any of her bio photos.

      a rally at a school and a disgruntled activist or your memri video of a 92 year old woman is a completely different setting/context than "diplomatic" conference. which reminds me of something i read yesterday. link to haaretz.com

      my father [Zeev Shek] belonged to the generation of diplomats who only dreamed of making peace with our neighbors; they understood that this was the mission of Israeli diplomacy. That is the meta-idea of diplomacy: to improve relations between countries, and not to spoil them.

      if one (jpost) is going to host a conference specifically on and for diplomats, to put forward a hostile employee in a coveted position on a panel that does what any normal person would consider being the very opposite of diplomatic than they should expect criticism. maybe they don't understand what the meaning of diplomatic is. this is analogous to hosting a formal tea party w/formal invitations and when the guests show up one of the hostess is attired in her old robe and worn out slippers. to throw a conference for and about diplomacy and treat the guests and diplomats to this kind of rhetoric and presentation is the antithesis of diplomacy. they stuck a bulldog on them. get it? was the whole premise of the conference a charade? to get them there in order to abuse them? she wasn't a member of the audience, she was on a panel and because she's a managing editor of the post she represented the establishment she works for and there was not a trace of 'diplomatic' in her rhetoric or presentation from what i can see here hops.

      and of course she is privileged. anyone who has a regular column in a mainstream publication with wide readership is privileged. privileged doesn't always mean financially. it means the ptb have allowed one a soapbox with which to enhance ones visions and opinions to a large wide ranging audience. that's a position of power others do not have. different but similar to the way i have been granted a privileged position by being able to post articles here where what i see is distributed to a larger audience. of course it is nothing like the post but in our world it's a lot.

      i took the screenshots to enhance and make clear what i see when i encounter her on video. she's rare bird in that her extreme expressions portray her contempt. that's somewhat rare for public figures and i am fascinated by this quality about her as well as many of her extreme viewpoints.

      She’s an angry lady, Annie.

      then why, pray tell, would the jerusalem post put her on a panel with ambassadors at a diplomatic conference?

    • hey thanks tom, means a lot coming from you. ;)

    • exactly giles, so sad. that is what i said elsewhere on this thread.

    • hey! let's throw a cool conference with diplomats and then trash them when they get here! caroline, you cover the panel with those nasty europeans. give em hell baby!

      lol, i can't get over it.

    • serious jack, you have to ask? i just wrote this elsewhere in the thread, but it's worth repeating.

      the question itself is hypocritical because israel/glick and the whole zionist ball of wax would go completely apeshit if for one second the US or the european union applied equal standards to both entities. imagine palestine being supported militarily the way israel is? imagine if they had an airforce, a navy, iron domes of their own and american made ammunitions? there’s your double standard, the military edge (a steep ravine) we provide to israel.

      link to mondoweiss.net

      iow, israel should be happy that US/EU have a separate standard for israel, in fact they demand it.

    • He deserved it. He says, You’re like us, you’re good people so we expect more of you. How many Iraqis are dead because the west wants their oil and the American neo-conservative wanted a beachhead in the ME, to spread democracy? BS

      john, first off i think his phrasing was bizarre, so i am not going to defend it. second, i think what he meant , or should have said more concisely is that israel, unlike any other states in the region, has the benefit (assuming he sees it as a benefit) of being afforded a european status w/all the frills that go along with that. like being the only non european state included in Horizon 2020, the €80 billion research and innovation project launched by the EU to create job growth and fuel the economy - See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

      aside from the billions in financial perks israel is included in this idea of being a 'western state' which in fundamental ways it just isn't - petraeus even thought israel should come under the purview of centcom. and your point about the west being barbaric - i fully agree.

      and lastly, the question itself is hypocritical because israel/glick and the whole zionist ball of wax would go completely apeshit if for one second the US or the european union applied equal standards to both entities. imagine palestine being supported militarily the way israel is? imagine if they had an airforce, a navy, iron domes of their own and american made ammunitions? there's your double standard, the military edge (a steep ravine) we provide to israel.

    • It’s pretty clear what she thinks of non-Jews.

      oh yeah. have you ever listened to "Caroline Glick explains the roots of genocidal Jew hatred"

    • it wasn't some random panel hops, the conference was hosted by the same news outlet in which she is a managing editor. the conference was not their regular annual conference (which i believe is in april) it was a " Diplomatic Conference" (i even watched dan shapiro's speech). this is not a call for civility nor am i attacking her freedom of speech. it was a situation in which the moderator lobbed the diplomat a question (and it would not surprise me in the least, given her affiliation with jpost if she didn't in fact assist in writing those questions herself) and she launched into a diatribe which included completely unsourced allegations ei " What you’re saying is they are objects." (probably not a coincidence she's used the term "objects" wrt palestinians before) she just goes off. it was, literally, a stunning spectacle.

      so setting up a conference for diplomats, which one assumes those on location (ambassadors etc) are beckoned to attend, and then having one of the employees of the brand (hosts) publicly lambasting one of them in this fashion under the rubic of "diplomacy" is astonishing. it's rare we witness this kind of stuff. very rare. but this is not a call for civility, by all means let it all hang out. but as i wrote above, she's "a mainstay of Israel’s international diplomacy".

    • I’d agree that it does show that, but I feel that more importantly it shows her psychic split....Though I’m not a fan of analyzing people psychologically .... deep down under the massive fortress of paranoid hysteria she’s built into her mind and into Israel’s culture, way under in the dark she feels the truth buried beneath the lies. Her freakish mode of communication you observe is a result of her inner conflict.

      i found it intriguing she was accusing others (in this case, lots of others) of a serious malady in which she so obviously and transparently demonstrated symptoms of that same affliction. albeit, i am not a physician nor qualified to diagnose her condition, much less report on it. but to dangle that term (actually she did a more than merely dangle it), to make such a concise accusation (read the caption under the last photo for those were her exact words during that expression) using that exact phrasing almost demands the listener, subconsciously at a minimum, to consider the implication, wrt the accuser.

      plus, as i eluded to in my article i have watched several of her videos in the past. mostly, overall, i think it's very (extremely) sad.

    • oh wow she's awesome!

    • completely different ritzl. it's her verbal expressions too, accusing a continent of having a behavioral disorder that many very real people suffer from is more than just a cop out. link to mayoclinic.org

    • she’s talking to an ambassador at a public diplomatic forum. she’s being incredibly rude and that’s not the way a civilized person treats a guest in your country.

      her own publication invited (summoned) the colomist to an event. she's accusing him and a whole continent of being racist, completely dismissing his point as being basically ludicrous and lambasting him. the chances he would bark back with the same degree of venom is so far fetched as to be unimaginable.

      she is a public speaker and a pundit and she must be aware of her appeal, which by the way her fans adore! this is a face of israeli diplomacy. and this is also very typical of the demeanor of many israel supporters all over the internet.

      i am not going to shut up about it. she should take a toastmaster class if she wants to learn how to speak in front of crowds. but she does this quite frequently. it's definitely not the first time i have watched a video of her speaking. she's an aggressive verbal attacker and deserves as much respect as she puts out, which is none. as i mentioned earlier, it's not like i hauled off and threw a fist in her face.

    • how is it misogynistic? "snarls, berates, whines". How else would you describe her demeanor? it's pretty out there, she's not subtle or anything. and she sure as heck knows how to dish it out, no holds barred. it would be one thing if she was disadvantaged in some way but she is not, she is privileged and in a position of power. i feel sorry for these panelists.

      i said nothing about her as a woman per se. she's vicious but men can be vicious too. she's puts herself out there to this extreme degree, don't expect anyone to stay silent out of respect just because she's a woman. it's not like i punched her in the face and it's not like i have not taken men to task over similar kind of behavior.

  • As Kerry and UN press on occupation, Netanyahu sees a 'diplomatic assault'
  • Collective punishment of 1.8 million human shields in a prison -- Newsweek dares publish the truth of Gaza
  • Liberal Zionists seek to strip Naftali Bennett of freedom to travel in hope of saving two-state solution
    • Isn’t our job to get this message out and keep getting it out until the discourse in this country changes and the real issues are faced?

      we're giving it our best shot breakingthesilence.

    • yes i read that abbas had given them passes and i wondered how that worked. did they arrived at the border of lebanon and in the israeli border guards let them pass on i wonder if they left thru the WB into jordan. i also read about them speaking to some creep likud druze politician. and after reading something in english alluding to the drama of manal i translated her name into arabic and started searching in arabic and reading the drama over google translate (that was hell). it seems there was a real shitstorm between Khalaily's sister and then manal got caught in some possible lie or something. i've been following.

      any gossip very much appreciated.

      and a big super congrats for Syria’s Hazem Sharif.

    • why would they scrub it? did you know the new arab idol is going to be chosen tonight? it's the final night and one of the contestants is palestinian, from the galilee.

    • ;) thank you cigargod, that's a sweet way to start my day.

    • “we are told” clearly indicates his characterization of an opposing argument – not his personal opinion.

      not how i read it. he's informing and characterizing a situation in which recent events "have led to new rounds of criticism" (that is verifiable fact not opinion) and plans to boycott ( fact not opinion). and the people criticizing israel are expressing themselves in language of support for Palestinians ( fact not opinion), and then he says we are told "these moves" are in reality little more than expressions of age-old tropes about Jewish power”(there is your opposing argument).

      the "we are told" pertains to what he communicates after informing the reader of the circumstances. the argument/accusation is that the actions of boycott and expressions (language) of supporters of palestine is " in reality little more than expressions of age-old tropes about Jewish power”

      but the set up is his framing. he does not say ' these moves are expressed in the language of support for, we are told, supposedly oppressed people such as the Palestinians, are, in reality little more than expressions of age-old tropes about Jewish power”

      calling palestinians "supposedly oppressed" is not a slip of the tongue. it's highly inflammatory and insulting and amounts to nakba denial. if, as you claim, he was claiming others made this charge he didn't make it clear, at all. he could always issue a disclaimer.

  • Israeli government attempts to shut down Nakba film festival in Tel Aviv
    • If they want to pay for it themselves, that’s fine. But they should not expect Israel’s Zionist Jewish majority to underwrite their treasonous conduct.

      and what of all the israelis who go to see the films, what of their taxes? certainly the amount of funds from the state supporting the cinema pales in comparison to the funds collected from the left in israel, no? why should all their taxes go to settlements and things they do not agree with? why do you think it's the zionist jewish majority underwriting all the funds from the state? and what of the 20% of the population who are not even jewish? do they also have to pay taxes? do they get to pay a smaller percentage because the state doesn't spend anywhere near the money on their schools or their art? why do they have to pay for memorials and parks that laud the very people who took over their land?

      your argument is less than weak, it's broken.

      subversive anti-Zionist and anti-Israel activities.

      just like our history, your history is your history. and no, it doesn't reflect well on zionism. so be it.

  • PA considers ‘re-defining security coordination’ with Israel in wake of Palestinian govt minister death
    • oh heavens, enough already!

    • Why haven’t other protesters died before in similar circumstances?

      hmm, they have.

      As usual a report by Deger oozing with blatant bias....This assertion is so political biased

      which assertion might that be, since she presented both of them.

      Palestinian protesters regularly put the IDF to the test with their routine confrontational demonstrations

      iof doesn't have to be there at all.palestinians arrived on their own land to plant olive trees, if this is your idea of "put the IOF to the test" the iof definitely failed. if iof felt they had to be there (and they did not) they should have been there strictly in the capacity of protecting the rights of palestinians to plant on their own land, protecting them from potentially dangerous and fanatical kahanist settlers.there's no logical reason why iof invaded and interrupted beautiful celebration of palestinians planting olive trees on international human rights day.

      what planet are you on?

  • We're all anti-American now
  • 'Racist, fascist bullshit'-- Marcel Ophuls exposes Islamophobia in Israel
    • Now, would you like to cite some cases in which the anti-Zionist or BDS movement has actually hurt or threatened Jews?

      good luck w/that! he kind of slunk outta here when i called him on that yesterday. not one example. just spinning in some kind of circular hasbara whirlwind.

    • You really have to stop reading into what people say instead of reading what they actually say.

      what conversation do you think are we in hops. you responded to subconscious's comment about attacks on Shlaim, Pappé, Finkelstein, Hedy Epstein. then you went on to buttress the rationale, with an explanation of that attack, did you not? and in your comment you said

      it’s hard to escape the fact that at least three of four tend to come from a radical political tradition with a bad record on antisemitism.

      those are your words. now what prey tell, is the point of saying it is "hard to escape the fact" these people "tend to come from" a tradition of a bad record of anti semitism ..."it’s a small step to antisemitic bigotry."

      these are your words. my point is if you care to accuse them of anti semitism as others have can't you, at a minimum, cite them? use their words or something they have written?

      I didn’t throw Atzmon in for effect....Atzmon main argument is to blame Judaism for the ills of the world...

      hmm, ok. in a comment responding to accusations against 4 people you say "Critiques of Israel by Jewish radicals have long strayed into bald anti-Jewish critiques that would be labeled as antisemitism if anyone else made them" and then reference 2 different 'jewish radical' than the ones up for discussion, to what purpose if not to make an analogous point?

      this is called a false equivalence. link to en.wikipedia.org

      False equivalence is a logical fallacy which describes a situation where there is a logical and apparent equivalence, but when in fact there is none. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency.[1]

      A common way for this fallacy to be perpetuated is one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result. False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence doesn't bear because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors. The pattern of the fallacy is often as such: If A is the set of c and d, and B is the set of d and e, then since they both contain d, A and B are equal. d is not required to exist in both sets; only a passing similarity is required to cause this fallacy to be able to be used.

      Last I checked, Max speaks for Max, not for BDS.... you can’t bring yourself to acknowledge the problems in the Stalinville that is the BDS Movement

      so what is your point again? you're using subconscious's comments to launch into a diatribe about how anti semitism is "rampant within the anti-Zionist movement" and now you're defending your false equivalence saying max doesn't speak for BDS? how did BDS become part of this conversation? is the BDS movement anti semitic too hops? is that your point? where are you going with all this? you're spinning in circles. is your point there is "Stalinville in the BDS Movement"? you're losing me completely. would that be similar to a "Stalinville" that is the lobby wrt congress sanctions against iran? is that what you mean? is that how they get 100-0 because it's stalinville? because 2 can play this game.

      you apparently think that acknowledging antisemitism within your movement delegitimizes it.

      excuse me? this is the first comment of yours i realized we were discussing BDS!!! anti semitism exists hops. i never said it didn't. but it's a joke to call it "rampant" anywhere especially in the BDSmovement without one single example tying it to the organization. this is the weirdest form of argument, you've really topped yourself here. i guess given enough rope you can lasso any kind of comment about anything into an attack on BDS! lol

    • antisemitism is rampant within the anti-Zionist movement.

      and your preface to this was the claim "three of four tend to come from a radical political tradition...radicals used to insist that there was no antisemitism in the Soviet Union" with the implication three of four insist there was no antisemitism without once offering even one example of any of these people claiming there was no antisemitism. then you throw in Atzmon for effect (knowing very well max has accused him of anti semitism) and the whole post becomes one guilt by association garbledigook absent one iota of actual direct context to any of these people. it reminds me of the point scoring section in the hasbara handbook.

      massive #FAIL

    • that's a drag lysias.

    • Then he interviews Michel Warschawski saying that the Israel lobby in France is “importing” a religious conflict from Israel to France

      ok, now i really have to go listen. i was in conversation w/mcohen the other day. he said something about "it's all good"or something wrt all the french jews moving to israel because of anti semitism. there are ways to make that happen of course. it's been done intentionally in the past (baghdad). anti semitism is milked to kingdom kome, if it wasn't there maybe they would have to invent it. sad.

    • yeah, but as phil says "Their careers will not be damaged by that exploration, though, because they are Jewish. That is unfair."

  • 'Suicide Drones' and the Spoils of War: Israeli arms manufacturers look to cash in on the war in Gaza
    • he's coming back this winter abu malia. i exchanged emails with him a couple weeks ago and he's involved with a project and says he'll be back when he finishes.

    • maybe the baker boys were victims of a heat sensored 1st time field tested weapon. i wonder how jack or jon would feel if weapons were field tested for the first time on little jewish kids? a few kids die to test it out, ultimately saves lives and causes less collateral damage than other munitions. Deal with it, just a few slaughtered jewish children, no biggie. when the target is innocent kids – it shouldn’t be attacked, but heck you win a few you loose a few. but at least when you're buying weapons tested on jewish children, you know it's other kids dying first. like lab rats, you loose a few to make sure the product is field tested.

    • yeah,one of the people interviewed for the 'makers', included high school kids field testing in gaza. it's not every society that has a local laboratory of live victims to test their weapons/inventions on.

  • United Auto Workers local becomes first major U.S. labor union to endorse BDS
    • he did what? made some words?

    • What you just defined yourself as.... is a fascist.

      but mooser, fascism is the new "moderate" in israel.

      what's next? 'i'm a moderate, i believe in torturing children for our security.'

    • mooser, some people just have a way with words. reminds me of that article i read today about the cia outsourcing a supreme court decisions from israel so they could torture people legally! whoops, sorry mr, we now know you didn't commit the crime but now that you've lost your mind (or in some cases your life) we needed to act unjustly for the security of our society. and whoops! habeas corpus sounds good on paper but administrative detention, although unjustly, is on the menu today.

    • you were accusing me of being Strom Thurmond.

      lol! you and w.jones should get together. i'd love to read that conversation!

      integrated towards full equal rights. No, exception, nothing held back.

      close, no cigar. you can't be both. integrating towards "nothing held back" IS holding back. the occupation should end today. like the berlin wall fell. you don't imprison people for generations delaying them w/negotiations and endless peace talks and get creds for claiming you're a "nothing held back" kinda guy when you're very position of "integrating towards" holds them back from being equal in the here and now. you already admitted that here:

      I’d be more sectional about it, but basically right.

      exactly. don't be a hypocrite. it's not your job to make people jump thru hoopstoprove their worthy of human rights and full equality. also, i notice you caveat of not addressing all palestinians living in the region. i'm done discussing this w/you.

    • did you just compare african americans to Nancy Pelosi and palestinians to Strom Thurmond as a justification for not advocating equality for palestinians?? lol, well, how creative! it's hard to argue with that (snark).

      Nah couldn’t be that would hate to assume anything but the worst.

      i was merely paraphrasing what you wrote. you support israel gradually ending palestinian discrimination, just not yet. or did i get that wrong?

      you referenced support of “full equal rights” for african americans and thus far you've written more excuses explanations but still not once referenced full equal rights for palestinians. or did i get that wrong?

      and you said you support civil rights. or did i get that wrong? so i don't know where you'd get the idea i assume anything other than what you wrote. merely paraphrasing. ;)

    • I’m a moderate..... I believe there are things more important than justice

      lol. shorter jeff: after many many decades i still support israel gradually ending their discrimination against palestinians, just not yet. and notice how i referenced support of "full equal rights" for african americans in this country, but nothing remotely the same for palestinians in israel, because i support civil rights.

  • Our Year-End Campaign: What Mondoweiss Means To Me
    • thanks chinese box, write adam. i'm sending him a note now. this happened to me last week when i was trying to donate to the bds campaign fundraiser. it drove me nuts. but i persisted. the firth time it took my money.

  • Palestinian minister dies after Israeli army assault during olive tree planting ceremony in West Bank village
    • exactly seafoid.

    • asherpat, there's more video now completely refuting your hypothesis. link to mondoweiss.net

      and i suggest you read allison's new report. link to mondoweiss.net

      i really can't be bothered by anymore of your diversion/hasbara. too bs and old school crap.

    • Systematic killings and systematic lying about the killings. Abu Khdeir was murdered by his family because he was gay. 500 kids killed but the schools they died in were used to launch rockets. Minister had a heart attack.

      so many more, remember the nakba day killings, oren said they faked it and there were no bodies. remember Autopsy reveals Arafat Jaradat died of extreme torture in Israeli custody - See more at: link to mondoweiss.net
      but israel said it was a heart attack.

      At a news conference in Ramallah, Issa Qaraqe said an autopsy conducted in Israel in the presence of Palestinian officials revealed that 30-year-old Jaradat had six broken bones in his neck, spine, arms and legs.

      “The information we have received so far is shocking and painful. The evidence corroborates our suspicion that Mr. Jaradat died as a result of torture, especially since the autopsy clearly proved that the victim’s heart was healthy, which disproves the initial alleged account presented by occupation authorities that he died of a heart attack,” Qaraqe said……

      The minister said Jaradat had sustained injuries and severe bruising in the upper right back area and severe bruises of sharp circular shape in the right chest area….. evidence of severe torture and on the muscle of the upper left shoulder, parallel to the spine in the lower neck area, and evidence of severe torture under the skin and inside the muscle of the right side of the chest. His second and third ribs in the right side of the chest were broken, Qaraqe said, and he also had injuries in the middle of the muscle in the right hand…Palestinian Prisoners Society president Qaddura Fares added that the autopsy revealed seven injuries to the inside of Jaradat’s lower lip, bruises on his face and blood on his nose…… heart was in good condition and there were no signs of bruising or stroke, the minister added.

      …..

      “Jaradat died due to torture and not a stroke or heart attack,” he said, adding that those responsible must be sued either through Interpol or the International Criminal Court.

      they lie with impunity.

    • thank you gamal. there is so much i do not know.

    • well jack, sounds like your source is either a liar or very unobservant/unreliable witness.

      They weren’t overly violent that I could see.... he was on the front line getting pushed back. Suddenly he was sitting on a rock, holding his chest.”

    • omg 14 years old. it just never ends!!!

    • i have no idea why they are dragging their heels on the ICC/signing the rome statute. probably threats from all sides. they are cowards. amnesty international advised them today to do it, now.

      abbas would be dead if he had the kind of courage a leader has. this is why he's been chosen, because he's amiable. he keeps dragging this thing out, god knows why.

      re the autopsies and oslo. israel keeps all birth and death records, PA can design postage stamps maybe, but nothing significant. israel gets to decide everything in this military occupation.

    • they admitted it themselves, the aim of the protest was to plant trees as close as possible to a Jewish settlement

      admit it? it's their land the settlers stole. it doesn't matter if they plant on their border for heavens sakes. and where did they say they wanted to get " as close as possible to a Jewish settlement" the illegal colony is adjoining their land. so who was it who got " as close as possible" to their private land? you sound delusional. and as i explained before "an approach" by the occupation soldiers was not on foot by all the soldiers as evidenced by the presence of the jeep. the soldiers probably drove up to intercept them, got out of the jeep and stood there ad the walking soldiers followed in tow. you can't say what "clearly happened" because you have no idea. first you say you can't imagine how it could have happened and when it's explained to you , you insist (w/no evidence) it couldn't have happened. "the scene is clear" in your friggin imagination as you fabricate a scenario that fits your agenda.

      " the Jeep must have travelled sideways. " there's this little thing called a steering wheel and it turns the car, not unlike how police set up road blocks with their vehicles and then stand on the side of them; car at a perpendicular angle to the road. seriously do you think we are conceptually challenged?????

    • Why the hell was an Israeli doctor permitted to do an autopsy? ....It’s as though the PA are saying that they are not trustworthy

      hmm, not really. i don't think the PA has a choice in the matter of determining to do their own autopsies. i think the state of israel is in control of all those decisions. the PA probably has to petition to be able to attend an autopsy. or something like that.

    • thanks just. i was wondering about the allegations of @RoySharon10

    • what was this guy with his health issues and age and status doing out there wrestling with border guards half his age

      it was a peaceful march mcohen. they got permission from the court to plant on their own land. it was not a riot. i'm sure he had no intention to "wrestle" with anyone. and why do you call them "border guards"? because borders are every 100 feet in palestine?

    • they torture for info and confessions. don't they have a 99% conviction rate w/the kids? a fool would take their judgements seriously.

    • that little old man w/his flag pole was awesome!

    • awesome ;)

    • that's something allison would have to answer. she said earlier in the article

      According to a witness, Abu Ein’s death occurred after the march to Turmusaya’s agricultural land was underway. As the Israeli and Palestinian observers of the rights day holiday walked into the orchards, about 50 soldiers some 300 meters away began firing tear gas and sound grenades, said Yesh Din’s spokesperson Reut Mor, who saw Abu Ein collapse.

      later, although allison characterized what mor saw differently (as being on the ground) she quoted Mor:

      After initial round of dispersants were fired by the army, soldiers approached Abu Ein and a group of Palestinians. At that point a soldier struck Abu Ein in the chest with the back end of his weapon, according to statements Yesh Din collected, Mor related. She did not see Abu Ein until he was lying on the ground. “What I saw is him collapsing.”

    • , I cant see how the statement above makes sense.

      some people are conceptually challenged asherpat. no worries. i can explain one plausible explanation for you. it's possible for some of the occupation forces to make an "approach" by transporting themselves in the vehicle and getting out of the vehicle to block the path of the marchers.

      also, i thought i would note that none of the occupation forces in the photo have their "backs... pushed to the vehicle." nor is there evidence in the photo a palestinian can be seen "pushing" an occupation soldier. what the photo does show is a soldier lunging forward clenching the throat of a man.

    • and of course it would be referred to as a terrorist attack.

    • plus, what does he mean by i was next to him? when i envision "next to him" my mind (or the reader) may think one of 2 people, one on the right or one on the left. but being truthful (or not intentionally being deceptive) one could make that claim they were "next to him" along with a surrounding group of twenty other people. so i'm not even really certain where this person was. but if he was in fact right next to him then he too would have been in the process of being shoved back. and is his (alleged) witness supposed to mean no soldiers had there weapon in hand as they were shoving back the crowd? a person claiming they did not see someone else get shoved in the chest under these circumstances could easily mean they just didn't see it. as opposed to having that person specifically observing this one person in particular during the entire course of events. because there could have been a time lapse between the victim being hit or shoved and his collapsed. it also could have been a combined reaction to being shoved in the chest and inhaling the tear gas.

      if the demonstration was peaceful, which it appears to have been, and the people had a right to be there (an accompanying court order to enter and work on their own land) then why was tear gas used? why were they being pushed back at all or by any means? why weren't the occupation forces there to protect the right of the people to be on their land and protect them from potentially violent settlers? if it was a heart attack the question we should be asking is would he have had a heart attack had he not been there. that we can never know, but it seems like a long short not to assume the events of the day and the actions by the occupation forces to suppress the peaceful demonstration lead to his death.

      regardless it seems predestined and obvious the military will not find the military culpable so an investigation is worthless. the outcome of these investigations is predetermined.

      clearly he could have been run over by a bulldozer in front of many witnesses and still the military would not be held responsible. sure, there have been a few aberrations of the norm these last several decades, but so what? generally any form of punishment is so insignificant as to be considered moot.

    • Abu Ein was there among them, he was on the front line getting pushed back...The Israeli journalist also tweeted: “If I’m not blind, then there was no rifle-butt strike, certainly not a significant or intentional one. I was standing next to him.”

      so the journalist was standing next to abu ein on the front lines getting pushed back by the soldiers too? he was part of the marchers getting the tear gas and stuff.

    • jack do you have the link or source of the reporter saying he was standing next to him and he was not struck? i'd like to read it. your tweet doesn't go to a link and it's not from the reporter himself. thanks.

    • Unite Ireland

      is that a new movement or something? i thought ireland became formally (divided after much ado!) and it was considered an achievement. link to en.wikipedia.org

      The Assembly and power-sharing Executive were suspended several times but were restored again in 2007. In that year the British government officially ended its military support of the police in Northern Ireland (Operation Banner) and began withdrawing troops. On 27 June 2012, Northern Ireland's deputy first minister and former IRA commander, Martin McGuinness, shook hands with Queen Elizabeth II in Belfast, symbolising reconciliation between the two sides.
      Politics

      Main article: Politics of Ireland

      Politically, the island is divided between Ireland (a sovereign state also called the Republic of Ireland) and Northern Ireland (a constituent country of the United Kingdom). They share an open border and both are part of the Common Travel Area.
      Both Ireland and the United Kingdom are members of the European Union, and as a consequence there is free movement of people, goods, services and capital across the border.

      iow recognizing palestine would be consistent with ireland's current political formation and not recognizing it might seem to some as a hypocritical stance.

    • thanks for the update amigo. dec 9th is also the anniversary of the 1st intidafa

  • As US media awake to a 'nightmare' Israel, NYT brings Blumenthal in from the cold
    • thanks dickerson. these guys have gone mainstream now. it's irrelevant that they represent a minority in israel if they represent a majority in the knesset. and they are getting there fast. freaks.

  • Promoting regime change in Iraq paved the way to regime change at the New Republic
    • i hope so mooser, about it being a big year. i just hope our biggest stories are not about another slaughter like last summer. as phil mentioned to me (paraphrasing), it's not so cool getting way more traffic/exposure because of people dying, or something like that. i'd like it to be covering other kinds of stories, like retributions/the hague/justice and of course freedom freedom freedom.

    • yes i've definitely heard of him and i have followed him on twitter for awhile i just have not been reading twitter much lately. thanks again gamal.

    • gamal, this is the first i had heard of the Nafeez Ahmed scandal. of course i know who he is but wasn't aware his blog had been dumped by the guardian. thanks. wow, what a drag. here's an initiative he's started link to medium.com

    • the devious TNR strategy highjacked liberals and corralled them into endorsing Neoconservative thought. The TNR was a Trojan Horse designed to distort liberal thought and neutralize criticism of Israel. If I had written this last year I would have been dismissed as a crackpot antisemite.

      that's interesting. i may be the only person around here (of my age group) who was not that familiar w/TNR. i wasn't aware of it at all until i got on the internet around 2003. but i never thought of it as liberal. it don't occur to me. the only times i happened to link to it .. which i can hardly recall, i assumed it was a neocon rag. i can't recall any times anyone on our threads linking to it. the neocons always claimed to be liberal (the way dershowitz is liberal).where i come from that's not liberal. war mongers are not liberal. i can't believe anyone would fall for that. so if you had written that here last year i wouldn't have thought you were an anti semite.

      i'm dancing on the grave for sure. and i like the name new republic. it had potential. i hope hughes does something significant with it and he's lucky he didn't have to clean the slate of the hanger ons, they did it for him.

  • Salaita firing has 'crippled' U of Illinois's ability to hire excellent scholars
    • In other words, there is a time-lag between how good you are and your reputation. And some places “coast”‘ on their past accomplishments.

      i think you are missing the point. “it takes ten years to gain a reputation, and twenty years to lose one” means if you're really good (think mel gibson or brad pit) it takes ten years in the business to get your name in the headlights. but if you f*ck up (being drunk and screaming about jews or beat your wife/lover) people won't forget that for twenty years, if ever.

      that said IU could get rid of this in a flash by rescinding and offering salaita his job back. and another university could really amp their creds by hiring him. he's hot hot hot. what a move that would be.

    • Of course, they can always hire SOMEBODY (someone who needs a job), but they would prefer to make a national search, make an offer to the best candidate, and win a recruiting war with other institutions.

      that would be pretty tough right now, because why would any "best candidate" (who one would naturally assume has many options), accept a job at a university so tainted? how could IU ever win a recruiting war at a time like this? practically unfathomable given the fact so many of the echelon of academia have risen up in support of salaita.

  • 'Our Liberation Will Not Be Complete Until Everyone’s Is': A report from the American Anthropological Association boycott debate
    • doublestandard , glad you liked the jpost article, i liked it too.

      the pro Israel crowd doesn’t want this whole thing. If academics choose to use their positions inappropriately, they can’t complain if we play dirty back.

      yes we know the pro israel crowd would prefer this all just be swept under the rug but that's not going to happen. we're used to the dirty tricks, that's part of what's precipitated this whole mess (as opposed to your 'reaction' framing). backstage backstabbing and under the table shenanigans, phone calls threatening to pull funding of public institutions is all par for the course.

      the point of our little back n forth here was not to complain, it was a minor disagreement/distinction (you seemed to agree "we really aren’t arguing that much for a change") over whether support for salaita implied support for the boycott. i think it does, you don't.

      but i appreciate your framing here because it acknowledges you know your 'team' is playing dirty. and the longer you play dirty the dirtier you appear to the public. and this serves us. flushing it all out. and as you say, for your side it has "become necessary" because the cards are stacked in our favor. in numbers we can win. in numbers bds can win. just like this vote, it's easy to assess the cards are way stacked against israeli apartheid. it's game on, you guys play filthy and bds will just keep marching along exposing you for what you are. so let those lawsuits fly. it's all just grist for the mill. unlike hops, at least you can see it for what it is.

      and no, the academics are not using their positions inappropriately, they are taking a moral stand and are on the right side of history too. time will tell.

    • hops there was just a case this year we covered. link to mondoweiss.net

      There is no evidence that Salaita’s non-hiring was because of donors

      you're out of your mind. i suppose you know there is a lawsuit right now because the admin is refusing to hand over docs and records. i'm not really into rehashing this today. you're full of crap tho.

    • they already have jobs. every person knows they place their reputations and future job prospects at risk by joining or promoting the boycott. right now that fascist law firm is going after the presbyterian church due to their choice to divest. there are lots of nutcases with time on their hands to target individuals like this link to jpost.com

      i think you know this hops.

    • since there are many outspoken pro-Palestinian profs who manage not to be antisemitic and not to get non-hired

      what is "not to get non-hired"? you mean who do not get fired? last i heard firing tenured professors was not that easy. on the other hand, outspoken pro-Palestinian profs have a more difficult time finding employment, hence it's a safe bet some are less outspoken unless they already have tenure.

    • Institutions are comprised of people. It’s a distinction without a difference.

      right, and those people acting independently outside the institution are not being boycotted.

      let me give you an example. if i, as a person representing myself, go to a conference and make a speech or an endorsement or give a lecture/participate in research that is me acting as a person. if a state or a state institution or an org funded by the state pays my way, i am representing that state.

      You can’t artificially separate institutions and people

      i agree. but you can separate a person from an institution. institutions do it all the time when they fire people.

      there's nothing artificial about the boycott.

    • hops, what something means and what it implies are two different things. what you initially addressed ("NOT the same thing as") was a point i had already made. what something implies is judged subjectively. in that we disagree. telling me you have "spoken with a couple of these folks"/not convincing at all. i know some folks too doncha know.

    • It’s like the Nazis saying that they’re just boycotting Jewish stores, not Jewish people.

      It’s like the Jews saying that they’re just boycotting German business, not German people.

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