Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 28215 (since 2009-07-30 20:11:08)

Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

Showing comments 28215 - 28201

  • A year after Shipman lost his Yale job for speaking out on Israel's actions, some Jews say the same thing
    • I think Shipman was mistaken to use the word “anti-semites.”

      i don't think it was a mistake for shipman to say "best antidote to anti-Semitism would be for Israel’s patrons abroad to press" for a resolution to the conflict. i think as protests were raging all across the world against israel's slaughter in gaza -- and israel's #1 hasbara mantra has always been the ad hominem anti semitism accusation (they are picking on us because we're jews - everyone else gets a pass on slaughtering kids, look at syria) framing it as an "antidote to anti-Semitism " was correct.

      i think the immediate knee jerk rejection/reaction to what shipman said is because it's verboten to ever suggest jews (collectively or otherwise) have ever, historically or in the present, played a roll or any part at all in hostility/bigotry against them (collectively or otherwise).

      and i'd like to point out phil left out what should have been the penultimate paragraph in the jj goldberg quote up above. originally i had sent him this section of a long article partly just because of that one paragraph (a tad wordy which is why he probably tossed it) . so i hope everyone reviews it. i will bold it below:

      “This insight was particularly emphasized this year in light of the bloody incidents in the Jewish community of France,” the report says. It quotes a Jewish community leader from France saying: “Every time [Israel uses force] synagogues are burned.”

      Curiously, the report avoids the word “anti-Semitism” when describing these attacks as consequences of Israeli actions. No less curious, there’s an earlier chapter in the report, Chapter 8, that’s devoted exclusively to the rise in European anti-Semitism, essentially referring to those same attacks. But Chapter 8 never mentions the testimony by European Jewish leaders in Chapter 9 about a link between Israeli actions and attacks on European Jews. “Anti-Semitism” and “Israeli actions” don’t appear in the same chapter.

      In a way, the reticence is understandable. Drawing a causal link between European anti-Semitism and Israeli behavior — between any anti-Semitism and any Jewish behavior, for that matter — is taboo in current Jewish discourse.....

      so “Anti-Semitism” and “Israeli actions” don’t even appear in the same chapter. don't ever put them too near each other! remember, this poll goldberg is referencing asked groups in the diaspora all across the world but they only addressed questions put to them. never the twain shall meet.

  • 51 Christian faith leaders urge Congress to vote for Iran Deal
    • without mentioning 98% of Goy US

      actually she does reference pro palestinian activist in general a few times.

      Those on the left in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (and in its satellite conflict in the U.S.) are all too familiar with litmus tests. We see examples of these markers of belonging and threats of exclusion everywhere we look......

      In the Bay Area, grantees of the San Francisco Jewish Federation may not hold public events with organizations -- Jewish or not -- that consider Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) a legitimate movement.....

      ....The examples of these litmus tests used by the holders of power to silence and control Palestinians and activists on the left are easy to find. We could keep sharing them for a long time, in part because there are just so many of them. But it’s also easy for us to talk about these examples because, as with anything that is easy to talk about, they affirm our understanding of who we are. It is much more difficult to look at the litmus tests we are asking others to pass.

      that's a couple examples. here's another:

      you could argue that every community must have litmus tests, that they are an essential tool for creating boundaries without which communities would not exist. What marks the difference of course is who has the guns. The litmus tests that are most dangerous are the ones backed by the most force. So we might decide to forgive the litmus tests of the left.

      But there’s a problem here: we hope that the movements for freedom we are building now will define the realities of the future. If the only difference between the two kinds of tests is the mechanism of power that lies behind them, the only reason the litmus tests of the left aren’t dangerous yet is because we don’t have power yet. But we want that to change, and when it does, we don’t want to have built a reality based on tests; we don’t want to have built a reality that looks anything like the one we were trying to fight.

      I don’t think all views in a movement can be held. A movement is a movement because it has defined edges. But the edges should always be moving, and we should always be holding them under a microscope and asking of ourselves and of each other, but what if we’re wrong?


  • 'NYT' and Chris Matthews are frank about Jewish role in Iran Deal debate
    • any politician of Jewish ancestry is automatically expected to be a supporter of Israel,

      any US politician is automatically expected to be a supporter of Israel, otherwise it would be very difficult to be elected. not because all americans support israel but because it cost lots of money to run for office and for politicians who don't support israel it's very hard to climb the ladder and compete with politicians backed by rich lobbies.

      Would someone of a different ancestry be viewed in the same way? For instance, would it be acceptable for any politician of Arab descent to not only be pro-Palestinian, but, as an American citizen, be entitled to promote support for the country of his ancestors?

      no, the only other country (besides the US) someone running for office overtly supports is israel. it doesn't matter where their ancestors come from.

      I am stunned by the apparent preponderance of Jewish politicians in the US government, which I was never fully aware of, until recently. Am I mistaken? I mean, I’m told that Jewish people comprise only about 2%

      it's normal here. american jews, tho only 2% (which frankly i find doubtful) of the population are very well represented in the upper echelons of american society. it's not just politicians. it's a lot of professions.

    • thanks for your "crazies" reference and link bandolero.

    • exciting!

  • Videos: 'Vanity Fair' story about anti-Semitic pogrom in Paris is falling apart
    • TBK has already made it clear in the Roundtable thread that he doesn’t bother reading the articles.

      maybe he just cruises the 100 comments thread and inserts himself after key phrases. or maybe he's got some google alerts set up for those key phrases like "mondowiess false flag" and then he swoops into thrust his trusty keyboard daggers.

      He just goes prowling for “Jew hobbyists”

      lol. forget the crimes taking place, ignore the article, it's another jew-a-thon!

      well, i'm not over with this story at all. the next ones going to focus on brenner's quotes (and i don't know or care if she's jewish. her ethnicity is irrelevant to her allegations as far as i am concerned). like i said, some explaining to do.

    • hops, "maybe, it’s because Jews are the victims of 40% of the racist incidents in France"

      of all incidents of violent crime in france, what percentage are jews the victims? do you know?

      eljay, i don't pay him much mind. watching the video above with these chanting racists screaming vile things and then destroying the furniture on the sidewalks...i'm not really in the mood to focus on his obsession. he's never going to consider any agency for anyone in the jewish community (in france or israel or anything) for any of the racist violence going on. ever. it's just a one way street.

      also, what seems very clear to me given the timing of last summers attacks in france -- a lot of this hostility is political. even the jdl calling for the "gathering" was, according to them, for the support of israel. the pro palestinian demonstration - the reason they were there that day, against the slaughter in gaza - was political. but any damage occurring, is only deemed racist for only one side.

      is it a hate crime what the jdl are doing? under french law? not really. look at the police and the way they ignore the jdl. if it's only deemed racist when directed at jewish victims but crimes committed allegedly to "defend" the jewish community (which is what jdl and vanity fairs description of this violence is) then no wonder "40%" of "racist crime in france" is categorized as anti semitic.

      clearly, the jdl should be outlawed in france. instead they allow a private ethnic militia to operate seemingly with impunity. at least that's what it looks like in the video. and one wonders what most french people think of that?

      whereas what about hate crime perpetrated by a jew? like say, the death of Nadeem Nawara and Mohammad Mahmoud Odeh Abu Daher? is that called a racist crime? what's the standard? when hops starts acknowledging all the systematic institutionalized hate crimes carried out on a daily basis perpetrated by the idf (jews) - with the support of my government -in the brutal occupation of palestine, i might care a little about his primary obsession. but when a slaughter is taking place in which hundreds of children are systematically being killed (mowed down like grass), while it will never make retribution based on ethnicity right or justified, calling one crime racist and the other not is the height of hypocrisy. so while his "40%" french figure might seem impressive, it pales in comparison to the death and murder that's fueling the violence against jews in france last year. bingo. were over 500 french jewish children slaughtered in france last year, mowed down like grass? i don't think so.

    • I have never seen you actually find any, anywhere ever

      liar, you've ask me that before and i linked to it.

      edit: your link doesn't even go to the attack we're discussing. i think there's ample evidence from the video up there who had bad intentions for the day.

      are you on your lil hunt tonight tokyobk? out to catch an anti semite?

    • thank you laurent, yes i was aware of the other synagogue attack down the street. however, your link has so many inaccuracies (not that you implied it was completely accurate or anything) as was most of the news that came out the day after the demonstration. also, there was no mention of the jdl in it. also no mention the jdl had called for a 'gathering' in front of the synagogue. frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if they were the ones carrying out the synagogue attack that did occur - as the video does suggest they were setting up/false flag attack provoking the demonstrators. and it's not like it has not happened before. in fact the event which triggered "new security measures in Paris, surveillance cameras are to be installed at Jewish schools, synagogues, and other sites. Mayor Bertrand Delanoe has also called for debates on the problem in schools, where classes resumed on Thursday." was an attack on a jewish center in paris by a jewish person in 2004.

      link to

      CRIF, the Committee Representing Jewish Institutions in France, congratulated the police on their efficiency. "His behavior is unacceptable and even more so because he is Jewish. He has increased the concern and the disarray of the Jewish community faced with an accumulation of anti-Semitic aggressions. This arson casts doubt on the reality of anti-Semitic aggressions and the struggle against anti- Semitism has lost its credibility," a statement said.

      This event occurred simultaneously with the release of statistics by the Ministry of Justice, showing that 298 anti-Semitic aggressions were recorded since the beginning of the year, a rate of more than one per day, more than three times the amount recorded in 2003 during the parallel period. 80% of the perpetrators have not been identified.

      France´s top politicians had condemned the arson attack and promised a tougher crackdown on anti-Semitism. Israel´s foreign minister Silvan Shalom had rushed off to Paris in the wake of the fire to demand tougher action.

      Paris City Hall launched a campaign against racism and anti-Semitism on Wednesday, with newspaper ads and 1,200 billboards urging people to reject discrimination, officials said on Tuesday. The ads read, "Paris says no to anti-Semitism, racism, and all forms of discrimination" in large type on a blue background, city hall said.

      plus, after spending way more time then i had originally planned reading french reports and blogs and comment sections in the french press, i did encounter a lot of information about this " Ghozlan spewing bullshit" you mention. he's got himself quite a reputation there in france with spreading rumors about unconfirmed "anti semitic" attacks and other stuff. he was even kicked out of france's CRIF for BNVCA filing false charges of anti semitism. link to

      plus, ghozian is affiliated w/the JDL in france. i think that's partly what this letter is about from the prez of CRIF:

      Richard Prasquier letter addressed to Sammy Gozlan

      My dear Sammy,

      We had many discussions about the actions you lead independently, without consulting the CRIF, on the most various topics related to the situation in France like abroad.

      Like I I'ai said many times, it was never my intention of wanting to "destroy" the BNVCA, and you will grant me that I was among those who have expressed to you how the more continuous admiration for your work and desire that this work is recognized by all official EU institutions.

      We are now at a time when your different affiliations make your poorly readable by government initiatives. To the extent that you're known as a member of the steering committee of the CRIF, they suggest that the CRIF is behind your actions. Now this, you are not ignorant, has not always been the case, and it happened that I ask you not to perform actions, following which you did not see fit, or spontaneously at the request of the office of BNVCA, follow my advice.

      In these circumstances, I have decided to withdraw you co-opted as member of the steering committee. I add that I see it as a 3-month suspension period, during which I undertake not to appoint another person in your place, out of five co-opted members. Following this period of 3 months., We refer the whole point, and I hope while better articulation of your vis-à-vis the CRIF pemettra initiatives to resume cooperation that personally, I ' attaches great price.

      I beg you to believe, my dear Sammy, in the expression of my deep friendship and persistent.

      Richard Prasquier,


      Paris, 24 February 2011

      En savoir plus sur link to

      (see comment section re "painful and uncontrollable.")

      france has seen a lot. like the Alex Moses character busted for calling himself and making vile anti semitic death threats. the woman and who claimed she was attacked by 6 "North african origin" who drew swastikas on her stomach only to change her story so many times during the investigation until she finally put in custody, confessed to making it up and then apologized. of course that was only after the "anti semitism" media frenzy - screaming headlines (mobilization against anti semitism!!!) and indignant condemnations including speeches by the ministry of interior and the president about the horrors of anti semitism. otherwise known as "L'affaire du RER D " link to

      it goes on and on. it was completely irresponsible of brenner to disguise ghozlan's relationship w/jdl thugs and skip derogatory mention of his reputation in france.

    • it's expensive! but it seems very interesting from the 6 or 7 pages i've read.

    • hops, you're hardly in a position to be telling anyone to be silent. i'm not so sure froggy did make a "giant" fool, not from your link anyway. and who/what is your source? you've quite a reputation here for making completely unsourced declarations. i don't know very much about this community of african jews in france, but i think it's very possible (if not probable) that the ones who are leaving may just not feel that european or may feel out of place. anyway, there's a book After Orientalism: Critical Perspectives on Western Agency and Eastern Re-Appropriations link to with some interesting passages.

      link to

      it mentions maghribi jews were exposed to a "european understanding of jewish history" thru their education under the purview of the AIU (Alliance Israeliti Universelle) assimilated french jews who had a responsibility to educate the "less fortunate jews" to bring "modernity in general" to jews from islamic mediterranean.

      The AIU perception of Maghribi Jews (and indeed Jews from the Middle East more generally) relied on negative stereotypes of the Islamic world. This attitude is related to broader trends among European Jews as they tried to define themselves as Western, often in the face of a society which perceived Jews as Orientals and applied negative stereotypes about the Orient to European Jewry. As Ivan Kalmar and Derik Penslar have observed, modernizing European Jews responded by "setting up traditional Jews as Oriental, in contrast to modernized Jewry which was described as 'Western'. The AIU's ideology is a perfect example of this constructed dichotomy.

      anyway, some interesting passages.

    • pro-Israel donors poured some $57 million into anti-Muslim organizations between 2001 and 2012

      an industry of bigotry

    • wow kay

    • now that's a thought

    • check out at 3:15 in the video how the jdl guys who have been smashing all the chairs and tables run right thru the cops who don't seem to bat an eye at them. weird ?

    • Page: 282
    • i knew that! lol thank you lysias

  • Beinart's fear of 'Israstine'
    • and you, on the other hand, are "intelligent and humble" right? is that the take away here?

      throw in a little "millions of people in the Middle East are being displaced and murdered" whataboutery and we're set to go.


  • Omar Barghouti on Matisyahu: 'Perfectly reasonable to oppose performance by any bigot'
    • just, yes! great news. and no, it is definitely NOT going away.

      Matisyahu will come out the winner financially and famously

      most americans have not even heard of matisyahu. roger waters/pink floyd was selling out stadiums all across the world by the time he was matisyahu's age.

      pink floyd is a world brand they have sold more than 250 million albums worldwide. there's no comparison at all (matisyahu half million). lol, fear not! also, according to wiki - Roger Waters:

      In 1990, he staged one of the largest and most extravagant rock concerts in history, The Wall – Live in Berlin, with an official attendance of 200,000.

    • Matisyahu singing Jerusalem in front of high flying Palestinian flags

  • Server Update: Posts & Comments on Hold
  • 'New York Review of Books' offers Israel as a model to US on targeted killings and detention for terrorists
    • tree, i was reviewing this article a month or two ago when i read yet another article somewhere referencing this attack as largely anti semitic. so i looked up the date and reviewed our article (at the time) and it as i recall some of our embeds had been scrubbed. and there was one article in particular i tried googling and although it was still in google, when i click on it it too had been scrubbed. it seemed very strange at the time. so when i first read the tweet by french algerian award winning journo Nabila Ramdani link to a couple days ago (she's been tweeting about this for a couple days now) i thought of those scrubbed articles. people have been pushing the counter narrative for a while. vanity fair is not the first one.

    • hi everyone. i thought i would tag onto a place near to top of the thread to get everyones attention.

      alert: Mondoweiss in the process of switching servers today so we will be suspending publishing after 2 pm Eastern time. This will be at least for the rest of the day and maybe for the weekend. This will also mean no comments after 2 pm.

      i'm do my best to clearing the ones backed up before that happens.

  • Jimmy Carter says Netanyahu has turned his back on peace
    • Because of his book Palestine: Peace not Apartheid he will be remembered as an anti-Semite.

      water off a duck's back. nobody cares what nakba denying racists think about him. just like nobody pays much attention to holocaust deniers. history will prove him right and prescient. he will go down in history as the great man that he is. and the accusation of anti semite has little traction when it's slung around with wild abandon by those who support the apartheid state.

  • Netanyahu Asks GOP Candidates: What kind of contortions will you do for Israel?
  • 'There is no Jewish terror': Conspiracy theory that Palestinians committed Duma firebombing spreads among Israelis
    • @da, you have a point. in all honesty i really wasn't very aware at all of all the horrible things our country did in the world until i got on the internet which sort of coincided with our invasion of iraq. before i had any radar for israel i was immersed in iraq. it was only thru the unique (what i interpreted as unique) relationship with the neocons and the bush administration (hersh stovepiping etc) coupled with the neocons protection of israel, and the intense support of israel from all the orchestrated propaganda bloggers pushing the iraq war that put israel on my radar. for the most part i was out of the loop on palestine during both the intifadas. i didn't even know about our history in south america. just very little.

      so when this came on my radar is was in conjunction of this constant reference to our relationship to israel. that was never around when i was growing up. this constant US&Israel lovefest. this constant reference to israel all the time by our politicians and media. it was almost as if we had this appendage stuck to us all the time. that wasn't there when i was a teen. nor in my 20's and 30's or 40's. israel is just in our face all the time. a child growing up in america today, it would not be the same as when i was a kid. they will know who israel is for sure. how could you not. and you really do not have to scratch the surface very far to discover .... palestine and palestinians. i mean really, you wonder "How many prisoners from Egypt, Syria, Iraq, KSA, Jordan or Iran does anybody read constant and timely updates on?". Egypt, Syria, Iraq, KSA, Jordan or Iran are not down our throats the way israel is. their leaders are not shoving themselves in our faces competing for airtime with our president twisting our politicians arms to make war on brown people. our congress members are not holidaying during their breaks (AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS) IN Egypt, Syria, Iraq, KSA, Jordan or Iran. we're not constantly being told Egypt, Syria, Iraq, KSA, Jordan or Iran share our values. we're not constantly being told Egypt, Syria, Iraq, KSA, Jordan or Iran are vibrant democracies and we should honor and respect the way they imprison and slaughter poeple. we're not directed to buy some hogwash oppressive states who slaughter civilians like israel does are good for us and our best friends.

      you want us to not pay attention to israel or palestinians? complain to the lobby. those days are over. you're on our radar now. and it's not because we're racists, it's because you're in our face spending our billions of our dollars slaughtering people --- for decades. relatively speaking, i just heard about it and it pisses me off. the whole world is watching. can we make a difference? i hope so.

    • zzzzzzzz

  • End of lockstep US Jewish support for Israel is a triumph not a tragedy
    • thank you kathleen. i meant by common sense - pragmatic thought structure (i think of my logic that way vs creative or imaginary). i didn't mean to say we are in agreement about most things. motivationally i think he is a person with good intentions although i don't agree with his priorities.

    • something tells me he doesn't spend too much time reading our comment section ;)

    • wow, or maybe we just have exactly the same kind of common sense. he said a bunch of stuff i have said so many times. like this:

      If members of Congress required no political pressure to support AIPAC’s agenda, then AIPAC would not need to exist.

      and just last night i wrote something very similar to this in comments:

      debate over Iran without mentioning AIPAC is like discussing the congressional debate over guns without mentioning the NRA

      and very similar to this in comments the other day:

      By that standard, criticizing Bernie Madoff is anti-Semitic too: After all, his behavior provided a festival of anti-Semitic imagery. And condemning Bill Cosby is racist since it feeds stereotypes of African-American men as sexual predators. If every observation that could feed bigotry is itself bigotry, irrespective of whether it’s true, there’s going to be an awful lot we can’t discuss.

      i think they way i put that last one was "nobody would be able to say anything about anybody."

    • Saying that the lobby spends money to convince members of Congress to do things they would otherwise not do is not anti-Semitic: it’s the truth.

      maybe beinart reads mondoweiss > link to

  • ‘The strategic implications of these demolitions are clear’: UN slams Israeli home demolitions and settlement expansion
    • does not release Allaan from administrative detention – it simply freezes the order for the period of his treatment.

      wtf difference does this make! what bs. all this legal mumbo jumbo. they won't let him go. "freezing" while he's incapacitated is still a continuation of the same process. argh!!!

  • Over 1,000 Black activists, scholars and artists sign statement supporting freedom and equality for Palestinian people
    • @da actually i started researching it this morning because i knew the pacbi guidelines (cultural boycott) were: link to

      PACBI subscribes to the internationally-accepted definition of freedom of expression as stipulated in the United Nations’ International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).[2]

      Anchored in precepts of international law and universal human rights, the BDS movement, including PACBI, rejects on principle boycotts of individuals based on their identity (such as citizenship, race, gender, or religion) or opinion. Mere affiliation of Israeli cultural workers to an Israeli cultural institution is therefore not grounds for applying the boycott. If, however, an individual is representing the state of Israel or a complicit Israeli institution, or is commissioned/recruited to participate in Israel’s efforts to “rebrand” itself, then her/his activities are subject to the institutional boycott the BDS movement is calling for.

      however, i read farther and it states:

      While an individual’s freedom of expression should be fully and consistently respected in the context of cultural boycotts, an individual artist/writer, Israeli or otherwise, cannot be exempt from being subject to “common sense” boycotts (beyond the scope of the PACBI institutional boycott criteria) that conscientious citizens around the world may call for in response to what they widely perceive as egregious individual complicity in, responsibility for, or advocacy of violations of international law (such as war crimes or other grave human rights violations), racial violence, or racial slurs. At this level, Israeli cultural workers should not be exempted from due criticism or any lawful form of protest, including boycott; they should be treated like all other offenders in the same category, not better or worse.

      that means they are not calling for it in their guidelines, but if there is some entity (business or person or org) individually advocating for it a person could chose to not enter into a transaction with that entity.

      it aslo says (their bold)

      In general, PACBI urges international cultural workers (e.g. artists, writers, filmmakers) and cultural organizations, including unions and associations, where possible and as relevant, to boycott and/or work towards the cancellation of events, activities, agreements, or projects involving Israel, its lobby groups or its cultural institutions, or that otherwise promote the normalization of Israel in the global cultural sphere, whitewash Israel’s violations of international law and Palestinian rights, or violate the BDS guidelines.

      that said, i think Matisyahu's approval of the slaughter on the mavi marmara (a war crime) would be enough for me to not want to share a venue with him, which is what other artists (apparently) said. anyway, i think (our commenter) just linked and copy/pasted ali's article -- i have not read it yet. but that's what i would have said. if an artist is using his talent to promote war crimes or raise money for them individuals can boycott them if the want, but it's not part of pacbi guidelines. and he can't say he's non political if in his spare time he makes political statements on FB.

      also, as i understand it this is some kind of underlying socially conscience festival as i understand it. it's not just a day on the green type music event. they pick a theme every year, and maybe palestine was not the theme this year, but artists who agree to play there shouldhave an understanding other artists also have the same social awareness or betterment of mankind objective. israel is an apartheid state.. so a well known advocate for that state, sans any acknowledgement of palestinians to have rights on that land -- it's just common sense to not book him to begin with.

    • just, that is the photo haaretz is using for the "Israeli Cabinet’s Plan to Combat BDS Held Up by Defense Minister’s Opposition" story. at least when i open it. i grabbed the photo off of the story and placed it is google photo drop ( link to ) and that is how i found the tweet. but i see it is the same photo used in lysias's Al Arabiya story, with context. so apparently it was take at the beach next door where they set up a gaza beach.

    • omg! complete with checkpoints , i can't stop laughing.

      Rows of heavily armed riot police stood in front of metal grills. There were 500 extra officers on duty throughout central Paris, as well as a video-surveillance unit shooting film that could be used in future criminal trials.

    • just, did you read about the event in paris? we didn't cover it here i don't think. the mayor in paris decided to turn a riverbank into a tel aviv beach for a week. so those lucky parisians could experience the beach israeli style in their own back yard. talk about clueless.

    • the photo on your haaretz link. "Gaza on the Seine, Paris, August 13, 2015."
      link to

      it's a great photo. some editor probably chose it to go w/the bds story. makes sense.

    • oh i love that photo just! i knew french activist would lay around on the ground all bloody. how could they not with a fake tel aviv beach imposed on the streets of paris.

    • no doubt their first line of offense will be to continue accusing BDS of anti-jewish racism (that's the term omar barghouti uses, i thought i would check it out).

    • mooser, i like you when you're pissed - cutting to the chase, not mincing words - and all that stuff.

    • “an organization to be directed by Americans without personal or family ties to the region” means “let’s let some non-Jewish voices in.”

      i look at it like this. say you have 2 people at each others throats. is it valuable to have an opinion from a person with no ties to either party? (in relationships they call them marriage counselors). for me it's not just "let some non-Jewish voices in" it means what it says. it doesn't mean other people can't be trusted. it means look at it from the outside without attachment and what do you see? it's a valid place to stand from which to get a view.

    • i still think it makes sense to target the lobby to break apart the apartheid system in palestine. it seems like a no brainer to me.

    • when your focus is on the powerless it’s hard to know how much of what you’re seeing is really bigotry, and how much is just rage at that powerlessness.

      smart ptj

    • i'm not sure why jennifer seems to prioritizing jewish fear in the means to resolution. the US certainly doesn't do that in other conflict areas on the globe.

      plus, the "fear of the oppressor" is a consideration i'd place very low on a scale in terms of prioritization.

    • ok, thanks for explaining this to me peace through justice. this was the exact passage that stuck out for me when i first read it. i do believe the U.S. is implicated in the racist and white supremacist structures as Israel. but i'm not sure if the U.S. is implicated in the same racist and supremacist structures as Israel in the US, because our laws do or can (structurally) provide recourse, whereas israel's are structurally racist because it's an ethnic state (apartheid laws/2 separately structured systems of government). while our system can work like that and does (for example racism against blacks and people of color is systematically rampant) i don't think it is codified in our laws to the degree israel's is. and of course we partake in actions around the world that are racist and supremacist. but i'm not sure that can be codified as 'white supremacist' since not all people who partake in that are white, (that's linguistic tho, it's basically the same thing whatever one calls it). it's part of the way america functions globally and it is racist.

      but i find it odd the "proof" for this statement is the identification of IAK's founding. their conclusion that it's "only non-Arab, non-Muslim, non-Palestinian, and non-Jewish voices can be trusted to speak the truth" is not born out in either IAK's statement or the way the IAK appears to operate.

      but this: talking about the role of special interest groups) is engaging in “chauvinistic nationalism”

      i guess this is where i think people smarter than me are needed to comprehend this concept. there's a tug of war going on right now between the tail and the dog and it's taking place on the world stage for all to see (phil writing about it on the front page). it remains to be seen how it will turn out although i think the dog will win. but if the dog doesn't it will be because of the tail (clearly). and i think there's a lot of evidence that as it pertains to israel (not everywhere else) the tail frequently wags the dog. and i don't think it's chauvanistic to say that -- not when it's true. and i don't see how that opinion (mine) boils down to a racist opinion of white supremacism. nor does it imply i approve of the way the US functions globally oppressing people.

      but then i don't know all of what weir wrote and said either. the IAK identification wasn't included in eto's determination but i'd have to review it.

      anyway, i guess i should read up on this 'national interest'.

    • you continue to accuse Alison Weir of seeking out white supremacist audiences.

      to add gravity to the accusation, of course.

      mariapalestina, after following this discussion for days - as a person who entered into it genuinely interested in the trajectory of the accusation (due to the odd timing of the shunning) it's occurring to me thru this dialogue the ultimate target (or more important target i should say) here is not primarily, or merely alison, it is this "national interest" meme i keep hearing about. it is that conference and that whole group which is the threat or threatening to the people behind this. and i think it's interesting that conference wasn't specifically named in the complaint (which i have to admit i didn't memorize or scrutinize carefully so maybe i am mistaken). but the theme of 2 opposing concepts is centered around recognition of the lobby.

      so if you make the lobby too important in your messaging or resist the lobby, your verging into a possible "white supremacist" position (being used as code which is how jimmy carter is included in this smear) . hence, the opposite of recognizing american complicity in the occupation of palestine (enough), or the way or degree in which you recognize it -- as opposed to prioritizing the lobby -- lands one in white supremacists territory. therefore linking alison to white supremacists is key to the real target> people who prioritize the lobby.

      now, if one can cement the concept that prioritizing the lobby = white supremacy vs those who don't as being "universally anti-racist" this is an idea or a meme that can move or have gravity in a movement. so it's interesting to me neither her book or her conference (by the same title "national interest" ) were not mentioned in the critique against her. because i have a hunch those are the threats. and they are current (vs the evidence presented against her, which was compelling but the timing was suspicious).

      just thought i'd mention. and that would not have occurred to me necessarily had i not been following this conversation. it's thanks to the messaging of jennifer and preston that i learned this. i could be wrong of course, but my hunch is i am right.

      anyway, nobody wants to be called a white supremacist, so beware of looking to closely at the lobby. and given the timing of this where the lobby is SO evident in this iran deal, it's a lot to swallow. i mean, it is a very powerful lobby. one doesn't have to (or shouldn't have to) place a lot of caveats in there about the nra or other lobbies to acknowledge this. it's not fundamentally a position of 'jews rule the world' to be truthful about the power of the israel lobby. it's a real force in our american society and should be recognized for what it is. and that's what phil writes about. will he be next? not likely because the idea of "jewish" as having agency with "white supremacists" is not likely part of the overall messaging, unless one really goes over the deep end. it's an argument primarily against non jews, targeting non jews. a "white supremacist" smear is inherently not jewish or people of color, so it targets (psychologically) people like me (be afraid of going there or else). if you're not with us you're against us and in collaboration with white supremacy. no middle ground.

      and going after obama for conjuring the lobby in his messaging is deeply offensive and insulting. jvp and eto didn't do that mind you, but it's still powerful messaging of the same ilk. don't focus on the lobby or jewish power within the american system.

    • perhaps you believe that any Jewish engagement is necessarily purpose was to bend normal rules of community engagement, which is the reason you know about it.

      we know about it because phil wrote about it. and if inviting phil is you bending normal rules of community engagement -- ok, you're diverse. the article is there for all to read. from memory, it seemed cultish almost. it's been a while since i read it tho, my memory could be playing tricks on me.

    • Sorry, Kris, but the links didn’t take me directly to their comments.

      funny, cuz it worked for me. none the less i bolded it for you so if you scroll up and try again you should be able to find it. i'd advise reading it. i know, danaa is likely old and white like the rest of us. but since she grew up in israel you might be able to learn something from her. she just might have a familiarity with that culture that might interest you. click on her name and check her archives. since, as i just found out checking yours, you are: working on a dissertation analyzing the rhetoric of the BDS movement - See more at: link to

      lovely. our white savior is studying us. how special.

      Are you referring to ...If so, a major point

      no, he wasn't. but that was an oh so smooth divert segue.

      everyone still seems to be missing and no one has yet directly addressed

      no dear, we didn't miss it. we just recognize using examples of bds activists' responses to a completely different person can't be used to make your point loose and free w/no reference pt. (remember, you don't have quotes). because, well, they are different people. plus you have not even read her book.

      as i mentioned in my first comment to you (oh so many comments ago) your rhetorical skills are lacking. you use all the same point scoring techniques used in the hasbara handbook. hence, we recognize them. because we've been doing this for awhile.

      many of the commenters still need to figure out what antisemitism is

      jennifer, would it be possible to move your obsession back to the round table on weir anti semitism? or do you find it particularly relevant to have that particular discussion here in this thread?

      and when you write your dissertation -- how will you portray yourself? as an a member of the discussion, the leader or merely an observer?

    • i so wish i had been a fly on that wall.

    • (What a silly girl.)

      consider the source. this is the same person who assumed a long thread was packed with people she called "white" -- because not everyone appreciated her helpful white savior comments. or something. maybe it is because we all use the same font. she's so white she isn't or something. she's moved beyond her skin unlike us old folks who were actually born yesterday. plus, she assumed we didn't know what hip hop was and enlightened us with a DAM link and a little insult like she was throwing us candy. one we've link to many times in these here threads and everyone here has listened too without a doubt. she thought us "old" people might not listen to hip hop because - like her generation invented it or something. zzzzz

      racists ageists, don't ya just love em.

    • oh no harm at all! there's so much conversation going on the chance everyone would have read it is zilch. i appreciate you linking. if i had been more together i would have written about it (not the meir-johnson lookalike of course). maybe tomorrow. besides it reminds me to remind phil... i wonder if it's going to get covered in the msm in the US? hmm. it better. argh.

      anyway, awesome link and thank you. something tells me obama is not flying by the seat of his pants on this ;)

    • we didn't write it just. they sent it to us a few days ago and ask us to hold it "embargoed" til this afternoon informing us they would send the final list of signatories this afternoon (3 pm est) it's exciting! did you read the list of organizations??

      1. All-African People's Revolutionary Party (GC) - United States
      2. Amistad Law Project - West Philadelphia
      3. Assata's Daughters - Chicago, IL
      4. Baltimore Bloc - Baltimore, MD
      5. Barry University Black Student Union - Miami, FL
      6. Black Autonomy Federation-North East Branch - New York City
      7. Black Bottom, LLC - Detroit, MI
      8. Black Student Alliance at Yale - New Haven, CT
      9. Black Student Alliance Executive Board - St. Louis University, St. Louis, MO
      10. Black Student Union at UC Berkeley - Berkeley, CA
      11. Black Unity Group - San Jose, CA
      12. Black Workers For Justice - North Carolina
      13. BlaQue UCLA - Los Angeles, CA
      14. Coalition of African Lesbians - Africa
      15. Columbia University Black Students' Organization - New York, NY
      16. Columbus Coalition on Mental Health, Addiction & Mass Incarceration - Columbus, Ohio
      17. Detroit Youth Volume - Detroit, MI
      18. Dorothy Cotton Institute - Ithaca, NY
      19. Friends of the Congo - Washington, DC
      20. Hands Up United Saint Louis - MO
      21. Institute of the Black World 21st Century, Atlanta, GA
      22. James and Grace Lee Boggs Center to Nurture Community Leadership, Detroit, MI
      23. MAD Mothers NL (Mothers Against Discrimination and Racism Netherlands) Netherlands
      24. Malcolm X Grassroots Movement, New Afrika
      25. Missourians Organizing for Reform and Empowerment (MORE), St. Louis, MO
      26. Muslims for Economic, Racial and Reproductive Justice, United States
      27. Network for the Elimination of Police Violence, Toronto
      28. New Afrikan Independence Party - Pittsburgh, PA
      29. Organization for Black Struggle - St. Louis, MO
      30. Peace by Piece - USA
      31. Progressive Millennials for Action - Chicago, Illinois
      32. Spoken Word Alliance at Tufts Medford, MA
      33. Stanford NAACP Executive Committee Palo Alto, CA
      34. The Dream Defenders Miami, FL
      35. The Freedom Archives San Francisco, CA
      36. Tribe X St. Louis, MO
      37. Tufts Pan-African Alliance Medford, MA
      38. UCLA Afrikan Student Union Los Angeles, CA
      39. Ujima People's Progress Party Baltimore
      40. We Are the Ones Boston, MA
      41. We The People of Detroit, Detroit, MI
      42. Wisdom Within Health & Wellness

      tears come to my eyes. and when i read all the individual names too. this is our future, our today. a blessing of solidarity.

    • I can’t remember. . . that thing that people keep debating whether it exists. . . Hitler was pretty into it. . . Oh, yeah, that’s right: ANTISEMITISM!

      you're really on a roll jennifer.

    • thanks straightline. gingershot linked to that this morning. awesome releasing that now, what timing.

      for the first time ever i noticed clicking on your link how much golda meir looks like lyndon johnson. it is really striking resemblance. i blinked!

  • Aftermath of Iran Deal: a divided lobby, but Biden's camp says he has 'Jews'
    • Probably half the population of Western Europe is that sort of mixture.

      exactly. we're probably the majority. and i didn't call it mixed race.

    • i've referenced myself as an american mutt for decades. it means to me, nothing really, or too many breedings to keep track. i think i'm some (maybe mostly) english french irish german scottish and who knows what else. 9 generations american (white) and too long ago to trace when they came over on the boat. no other national or ethnic identity other than just american caucasian.

      both sides of my family all the cousins, there's no other country we identify with in particular that i have ever heard of.

    • italian, had the other countries previously passed legislation in their parliaments to approve or reject the diplomatic efforts of their government this sort of lobbying effort might be going on there currently. but i think the US congress is unique in passing this (earlier) sort of legislation to thwart the diplomatic process of the executive branch.

    • a largely Jewish affair

      anti semitic i'm sure. speaking of elephants.

  • Leading Israeli journalist says Israel is an Apartheid state
  • Pittsburgh Jews say Obama will allow 'Second Holocaust' while Israel's ambassador openly lobbies Capitol Hill
    • The State Department has a ME section

      theo, do you mean the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs (NEA)? if not, what section, where did you read/here about it, see photos or have you been there? i'd love to see a photo of what you're describing.

    • can't stop laughing (Hophmi Dumpty) !

      and keith! Lords Adelson and Saban huddled in fear lest folks like Phil destroy their conformity of thought and unity of purpose.

      omg, it's priceless - and while listening to dickerson's i am a walrus. a trifecta.

  • Skunk water for Palestinian protesters, not right-wing Jews, in roads near Mohammad Allan's hunger strike
    • thank you kris.

    • thanks for the update jon.

    • jon, i read in the israeli press the other day that none of the doctors at the hospital where he used to be would force feed him which is why they moved him to the hospital where he is today (because they found one who said he would). not sure if that's correct, but i read it.

  • Israel begins using drones to monitor West Bank protests
  • Does Obama have Booker? Boteach desperately plays race card and Jewish donor card
    • ok john, i will consider your argument, thank you. in all honesty i have not spent much time investigating the navels of the gop and perhaps my basic assumptions are wrong. i know it's the white party, that part i know. thank you.

    • the price on elections has been shoved up to the mega billions thanks to big donors. it was already bad before the supreme court ruling and it's just going to go up up up. but a cheap election can still be done in small states. think of that guy who uprooted cantor, as entrenched in the system as any sitting congressperson until SPLAT! that was so fun to watch happen. and the guy was a nobody coming outta nowheresville. so it can be done.

    • thinking it's all because of race is a pack mentality and a cop out. same w/rampant accusations of anti semitism. usually it's political strategizing. lots of people (strategizers) have no qualms with this because it can flip an election (yes racists exist and charges of racism can also bring out the opposition: ie anti anti semitism ); remember what netanyahu appealed to right before the election. but i'd posit the american masses (in the majority) are not primarily motivated by racism. i choose to believe (hope) the opposite (anti racism) is more prevalent of the two.

    • are they working? Are illegal immigrants using their SSNs to get jobs?’

      i don't know if they are using dead people's names but either way thousands are working and faking SSN and dumping millions into the IRS that they will never see as beneficiaries down the road. todays social security recipients are depending on that money from illegal workers. the state has something like a 6 month window to inform a business owner an employee is illegal so many of these workers change jobs every six months. it protects the employer and keeps that money flowing into the IRS. the employee gets screwed over but that's the price you pay working in the US as an illegal. the gov takes the money out of your paycheck.

      they have no problem collecting money from faux dead people (otherwise known as illegals) , they just bitch when a glitch in the system gives it back to dead people.

    • opposition to anything Obama proposes, a largely racist motive.

      not sure if i agree with that. the gop does a pretty good job of voting in a block when they set their mind on it. i'd imagine they'd do the same thing opposing any dem president. this doesn't mean there are not racists in the gop who have a racist motive. but i wouldn't assume that's the main reason for all of them.

  • Meeting Jimmy Carter
  • Self-defense patrols form in West Bank as PA fails to protect Palestinians following Duma firebombing
    • link to

      This peaceful and picturesque idyll is suddenly broken when the headlights of a car on the sand road below prompts one of Douma’s four civil defence units, comprising 10 volunteers each, to spring into action from the top of the valley at the edge of the village’s perimeter where the group is stationed.

      One volunteer shines a search light from the top of the pick-up truck searching the wadi for any signs of Israeli colonists.

      Volunteer head Habib urgently phones members of the other guard units which are stationed at other points on the village outskirts to enquire about unusual movement or activity.

      “It’s ok it’s not colonists. The car is from the village so we can relax but we will be on duty till 4am after starting our patrol at 10pm,” Habib tells Gulf News.

      The volunteers will not give their names as they are afraid of being arrested by the Israelis.

      Before Gulf News could accompany the group, our credentials had to be verified for security reasons.

      From the hill across the valley Israeli soldiers can be seen monitoring the village with binoculars and search lights.

      Other soldiers are placed at the entrance of the village checking the IDs of all who enter and leave the village.

      However, most Palestinians are too afraid to leave at night while Israeli colonists roam the roads freely under the protection of the Israel Defence Forces (IDF)

    • Read the job description in the Oslo thing: the PA is there to protect the Zionist entity, and itself too, from the resistance.

      you don't say.

      Villagers in Duma hope that the Palestinian Authority (PA) would provide defense from rampaging settlers, but PA forces have been completely absent. This is breeding resentment against the PA in the West Bank, and spurring on the growth of vigilante groups. This anger is due not only to the settler attacks but the fact that while the PA is unable to protect the people it is supposed to represent, it continues to collaborate with the Israeli military to repress rival political factions and resistance to the occupation.

  • Jimmy Carter has cancer
    • beautiful justiceforpalestine, thank you.

    • i love Jimmy Carter . he's a wonderful courageous man. what sad news. i'm glad he's still here with us today.

      i wrote him once. he wrote me back and signed it. i saved it of course and happened upon it last week. i thought to myself, as i often have -- a wonderful wonderful man.

  • Saban says Iran Deal is a done deal, as Netanyahu and Bush play for 2016
    • oh i get it.

      "The jury awarded the families $218.5 million, a sum automatically tripled under a US anti-terrorism law to $655.5 million."

      that is why they sued them here. using US laws to triple their award. tsk tsk. i guess 20 million per family wasn't enough for them.

      look on the bright side, a palestinian baby is only worth 30k sheckels in an israeli court, if you're lucky.

    • i guess that's the price you pay using US courts to settle scores during the intifada in jerusalem. which begs the question, why didn't they sue them over there? no courts in the occupied palestinian territories? they didn't trust israeli courts to be fair? or an israeli jury?

      and how was obama interfering with a foreign country? i thought the US court case was between 10 american families suing the PA? what does that have to do with israel? are you claiming it is not an american issue? it has nothing to do w/israel, as they are not even a party to the suit.

      what's your beef again? i am not seeing any so called hypocrisy.

  • In latest thrust at Obama, Netanyahu names UN ambassador who trashed him and said Palestinians can have 'Facebook state'
    • the more the merrier straightline!

    • i didn't notice him squirming (the Danish Ambassador). he may have been but the camera was mostly focused on the spectacle of her squirming in her chair and growling as the screenshots of a meltdown document.

      but i agree with you, i think she'd perfectly represent israel as ambassador. bring it on.

    • i would call Beinart and j street centrist. but structurally speaking (not arguing theoretically) since zionism only operates in a racist construct, it's inherently right wing. that's why the idea of liberal zionism is an oxymoron. i suppose theoretically it could be, but thus far after decades we've never seen it materialize other than as a concept.

    • Her only flaw is that as a south sider she is a White Sox fan.

      oh yeah, and such a diplomat too! have you seen/read this:

      link to

    • amazing, what a professional diverter! did you use these weapons? -- 'hamas is an authoritarian regime, they have white phosphorus too.' lol

    • john, i can't stop laughing! is this for real? someone should start a comedy series about it. this is gold. almost too good to be true. UK will chew him up.

  • AIPAC spending estimated $40 million to oppose Iran Deal
  • 'Administrative revenge' -- settlers are believed responsible for arson targeting family on outskirts of Duma
    • as i can imagine. it tarnishes the site too. we don't need these kinds of appeals here. thank you.

    • thanks for calling my attention to that comment diasp0ra. i neutralized it. it should not have passed moderation imho.

    • And the euphemism is not ever defined as “terror”.

      The assailants spray painted “administrative revenge” on a rock near the enclosure, a reference to Israel’s recent announcement that it would jail Jewish terrorists without trail in a policy of “administrative detention.”

      I maintain that the euphemisms is the language of the terrorists.

      obviously the euphemism is the language of the terrorist, as allison's description as well as the photos makes clear.

      anyway, you can always write phil, adam and allison with your complaints. but i doubt it will make a bunch of difference. as an aside we did have 2 article last week referencing jewish terrorists or terrorism in the headlines. i don't think there's been any policy decision not to reference these people as terrorists or theor actions as terrorism. sorry the framing doesn't meet your standards.

    • what? i want to know when they say this stuff. it's the news. you want a report on it not mentioning their perverted sick logic. allison mentioned "Jewish terrorists" twice. if that graffiti was in english would you also like us not to publish the photo to protect you from their language?

    • laurent, this has always been the rational for the 'price tag' attacks. meaning this is the price that will be paid for the government applying pressure to jewish terrorism or jewish outposts or whatever -- they will target palestinians. they spelled it out early on.

  • Non-Jew dares to announce position on Iran Deal
  • If I Were an Israeli Looking at the Iran Deal (to the tune of 'If I Were a Rich Man')
    • i love this tom, but could you add another verse or refrain? i really like this line:

      The Israeli Army.. has will not be deterred by the threat
      of civilian Arab casualties.
      Yubby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dum!

      and you could stretch the word arab out sort of like: a-a-a-a-rab casualites!

      because dead arabs civilians are such a threat to the israeli army, it should be included in the song.


  • Radical talent Jowan Safadi's new song - 'To be an Arab'
    • he does have a twitter feed and i followed him as i recall the other day. but i don't think he uses it a lot -- as i recall. i'd go look for it but i can't get distracted at the moment. the day i wrote this, i got distracted for about 8 hours. there are some other incredible lyrics with his electronic band (a duo w/another guy, i can't remember their name off the top of my head) this song i played over and over on soundcloud. something about one state two state and F*** all the state or something. really out there. i loved it. anyway gotta go. and this ones for you:


    • who are tou quoting and why are you moving the goal posts?

      Hardcore homophobes Are the most gay on the inside

      and no, it is not just popular suspicion.

    • did anyone open the embeds? safadi is for real. check out these lyrics:

      After two years of fighting charges of incitement to violence and support for a terror organization in songs they performed in 2010, two Arab rap singers from Haifa finally won their case.
      The prosecution originally agreed to drop the charges for lack of evidence but the rappers, Wala Sabit and Jowan Safadi, who were charged over songs they performed at a coexistence festival in Haifa, fought until the court declared them not guilty.
      In July 2010, the pair, accompanied by dj Bruno Sabag, performed a song in Arabic and English called “Search Me” and containing the lyrics

      “I’m a terrorist, but I have no explosive belt around by waist

      I have no bomb under my arm, no machine gun on my shoulder

      I’m a soldier in the army of conscience

      I’ll shoot you with bullets of poetry

      I’ll assassinate you with a monologue

      I’ll commit suicide with the bomb of a dance troupe and I’ll torture you with the beat of drums”

      Reports on the songs appeared in the local media, claiming that the words were actually: “I’m a proud Arab/a suicide bomber/I will murder your mother and your sister too.” A few days later, then-National Union MK Aryeh Eldad asked Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein to launch an investigation against the two singers on suspicion of incitement......

      read more: link to

    • yes he does. there is a back story i am sure. i wonder if a few of the women in the car are jewish. it is haifa after all.

    • sorry RoHa, they are in the closet so they don't get outed til they are busted. iow no statistics.

    • have you been living under a rock RoHa? edward's video skips one of the most notorious cases, that anti gay right wing senator iowa or nebraska - i can't recall, soliciting in a bathroom at the airport! that was a big scandal. but there have been lots of these in the US. . it is way too common.

    • Hello (or: Goodbye) transfer
      Kahane was right * ^ * ^ *

      how inspiring boo

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