Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 933 (since 2010-09-16 16:15:33)

jon s

An Israeli history teacher,long-time activist on the Israeli Left.

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  • Uncompromising hope inspired by Ghassan Kanafani
    • jon s May 17, 2013 at 11:59 am

      Woody, you're right , I should have mentioned the Puerto Rican tourists murdered in the attack . Murdered, not "deceased".

    • jon s May 17, 2013 at 11:53 am

      Terrorists always claim to be "retaliating " or avenging something or other. Whether it's Timothy McVeigh or Mohammad Atta or Barukh Goldstein or Yahya Ayyash or the Tsarnaev brothers...In my view once they start killing innocent civilians they won't get any sympathy or "understanding " from me. I don't care what their "message" was supposed to be.

    • jon s May 17, 2013 at 4:46 am

      Aside from the Lod Airport massacre, the PFLP was responsible for numerous bloody terrorist attacks aimed at Israelis, Jews, and Western interests . Those included plane hijackings, bombings , you name it. The PFLP was the outfit that employed Carlos "the Jackal".

    • jon s May 16, 2013 at 1:57 pm with 11 replies

      More of what Taxi calls "armed resistance" - and decent people call "terrorism" - will only mean more misery and bloodshed for all the peoples of the region.

  • Beinart's challenge, Beinart's fear
    • jon s May 16, 2013 at 7:58 am

      Tree,
      Thanks for the research. Somehow I'm not suprised that two government offices can't come up with the same numbers.
      As to emigration - it's tricky to calculate because not every emigrant declares him/herself as such. Some Israelis move abroad temporarily to study , some are relocated by their employers, some leave for various personal or ideological reasons. It's often not clear when to consider them emigrants. Applying for a Green Card? for citizenship?
      In any case it's clear that Israel's population is increasing:
      link to www1.cbs.gov.il

    • jon s May 16, 2013 at 1:45 am

      NickJOCW,
      I've never heard of "Arab fundamentalism", seeing that "Arab" is not a religion which has "fundamentals". I think you mean Islamic fundamentalism, and , if so, it's pretty far-fetched to blame a phenomenom with manifestations in places like Pakistan and Mali on the Jews.
      As to your proposal for two Jewish states, one "in and around the temple ruins" (that would be in place of the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa) - I assume you're joking.

    • jon s May 15, 2013 at 4:12 pm with 4 replies

      Seafoid,
      In fact over 18500 immigrants arrived in 2012. Israel's population is growing nicely . See here:
      link to moia.gov.il

      As to the one state/ two state debate, Uri Avnery makes a strong case that two states is the only possible way:
      link to zope.gush-shalom.org

  • Jerusalem Day response - 'the only statement we make on Jerusalem Day is our thanks for the freedom to live and pray in our holiest city'
  • It's in Jerusalem's DNA to be under 'sole Jewish rule,' mayor declares
    • jon s May 8, 2013 at 4:03 am

      And Amichai on being mayor of Jerusalem:

      Mayor

      It's sad
      To be Mayor of Jerusalem.
      It is terrible.
      How can any man be the mayor of a city like that?

      What can he do with her?
      He will build, and build, and build.

      And at night
      The stones of the hills round about will crawl down Towards the stone houses,
      Like wolves coming
      To howl at the dogs
      Who have become men's slaves.

      Translated from the Hebrew by Assia Guttman From Selected Poems, Cape Collard, 1968

    • jon s May 8, 2013 at 3:41 am

      From above the top of Mount Scopus,
      I am greeting you, Jerusalem.
      A hundred generations I have dreamt of you,
      to have a privilege to see your light.
      Jerusalem shine your face upon your son.
      Jerusalem I shall rebuild you from ruins.
      (Avigdor Hameiri 1890-1970)
      you can hear it here:
      link to youtube.com

  • Shared values?
    • jon s May 8, 2013 at 10:54 am

      I second the proposal to change the anthem to "Ani Maamin", especially since one of my students recently asserted that Hatikva was written by Naftali Alzheimer.

    • jon s May 8, 2013 at 5:29 am

      Shmuel, while you're at it , perhaps you could translate the 7th stanza of "Ani Maamin" or -better yet-: the entire poem.
      As to inter-marriage, with Shavuot around the corner, we could mention the most momentous inter-marriage of all: Boaz and Ruth the Moabite, producing the "line" of David and his dynasty.

    • jon s May 8, 2013 at 4:59 am

      It would be fair to mention that Tchernichovsky was also a Zionist.

  • Fayyad warns Obama: 'A state of leftovers is not going to do it'
    • jon s May 6, 2013 at 1:02 pm with 1 replies

      An historical footnote: Herzl invents the American Zionist lobby:

      link to haaretz.com

    • jon s May 6, 2013 at 12:59 pm with 2 replies

      Firing on, and sinking , the Altalena, at the cost of 20 lives (16 IZL, 4 IDF), ordering the dissolution of the IZL and LHY - looks like suppression to me.

    • jon s May 4, 2013 at 4:50 pm with 10 replies

      Phil seems to have misunderstood the Altalena analogy: the point is that the mainstream leadership (Ben Gurion at the time) was willing to take on the minority radical extremists ( the IZL and LHY) , was willing to use force to supress them , even at the risk of civil war . The analogy being that the mainstream Palestinian leadership should impose it's authority on the radicals. The present Palestinian disunity is one of the factors preventing progress towards peace.
      Incidentally, the Altalena incident occured in June 1948 , before Israel had "won". Ben Gurion realized that barely a month after independence was declared, and with the existence of the state hanging by a thread, Israel couldn't afford a lack of unity, with various militias operating on their own.
      And one more point: it's true that " Zionism was premised on the idea that Jews are unsafe in the west", and , tragically, events of the 20th century proved that those fears were not unfounded. But at the present you can't reduce the need for a Jewish state to that one premise.

  • Gideon Levy: It's time for a 'one person, one vote' movement to end Israeli oppression
  • A child’s dream under occupation
    • jon s April 2, 2013 at 7:21 am with 1 replies

      K. Renner, So a sick Palestinian child is treated in Israel - and Israel should be condemned and villified.
      I wonder what you would have said if Israel had refused treatment...

    • jon s April 1, 2013 at 9:18 am with 1 replies

      I wonder what in the world does Asmaa's situation have to do with Anne Frank.

      Last week the play "My Name is Rachel Corrie" received an award at the Teatroneto festival in TelAviv:
      link to youtube.com

    • jon s April 1, 2013 at 2:08 am with 4 replies

      So let's see:
      Asmaa is a very sick child. I hope noone is saying that Israel is to blame for her medical conditions. (Although I wouldn't put such an accusation past some of the commenters here...)
      Asmaa is treated twice a month in an Israeli hospital. Yes, an entry permit is needed. Israel seeks to control entrances to its territory, especially from an area under the rule of an implacable enemy
      The Ministry of Health covers some of the expense. Is that the Ministry of Health as in "Israeli Ministry of Health"? It would be nice to say so. We're not told what "some" of the expense means. 10%? 50%? 90%? Who covers the remainder?
      Instead of highlighting the side that has displayed compassion in this case , we get more "ethnic cleansing", "Zionist gangs" and such. I wonder what Asmaa's family has to say about her treatment by "Zionist gangs".
      Asmaa's dream is to pray in Mecca. I don't know whether her medical condition would permit the journey, but it I hope and pray it can be done.

    • jon s March 31, 2013 at 4:26 pm with 1 replies

      Is Walaa Al Ghussein Annie Robbins?

  • 'Do you know any Arabs in London?' Israeli airport authorities grill British photojournalist before kicking him out
    • jon s April 3, 2013 at 11:53 am

      Eljay, you don't see Anti-Semitism on this site? Are you serious?
      Remember this?
      “Israel is no normal state, but one governed by the forging of Zionist system-logic into a Satanic ideology. . . ."-Joel Kovel
      And from a convert, no less.

    • jon s April 2, 2013 at 1:08 am

      Seafoid,
      When you do come here, I'm pretty sure that you'll find that it's not at all like the "madhouse" you've been reading about. Tel Aviv especially: lots to see and do, a great place to visit (though the humidity in summer is murder...).
      As to not being around forever - "forever" is a big word, but , believe me, Israel isn't going anywhere.
      Actually, re-reading your comment, maybe you mean that Mondo won't be around forever...

  • In Iraq, and now Syria, US seeks secular outcome by... promoting sectarian division
  • In enforcing DOMA, and in doing nothing against settlements -- Obama lacks 'courage of his convictions'
    • jon s March 31, 2013 at 4:04 am

      A few comments to Phil (also to points raised in the" Liberal Zionist students…" piece):

      1. The Palestinians as human beings, as regular people: mostly good, some bad, just like other people….and just like Israelis and Jews. Don't forget that.
      2. Mr. Fayyad, as Prime Minister has done more for his people than the Hamas blowhards making speeches extolling jihad and martyrdom (and then hiding behind civilian human shields). By focusing on schools, health care, economic development and law&order he's borrowing a page from the Zionist Yishuv during the 1920s to 1940's – building the infrastructure of the Palestinian State.
      3. The analogy to the American civil rights movement is instructive- by way of comparison: I wonder where the civil rights movement would be if , instead of riding the busses as Freedom Riders – they would have blown up busses carrying white civilians, or fired rockets at white neighborhoods, or denied the legitimacy of the whites in the US.
      4. "Dialogue " is not a dirty word. The absence of dialogue leads to more brutality, misery, violence and bloodshed.
      5. If J Street stress that their position is rooted in love –for our people and for Israel - I applaud them on that . I assume that Palestinians seeking to promote understanding and peace are also motivated by concern and love for their people. That's the natural and healthy attitude.

  • Lessons learned from a box of matzoh
  • Two readings for Passover
    • jon s March 28, 2013 at 7:23 am

      Eva, Maybe it can be seen as trying to get even: the Egyptians had exploited the Israelite's slave labor, and now the Israelites were taking property which the Egyptians had accumulated as the profits of slavery.

    • jon s March 27, 2013 at 1:07 pm with 1 replies

      Moderators: is there any particular reason my comment here hasn't been posted?

    • jon s March 26, 2013 at 3:41 pm

      I usually conduct a traditional Seder, but one can always add to the text, especially when it comes to what is -in my view - the central message.
      The central theme is to remember : that we were slaves in Egypt , and were liberated, and the memory should be very up-close and personal – we should all consider ourselves as having been liberated from bondage. And yet…something is missing here: In the Bible itself we are told repeatedly to remember the oppression in Egypt for a purpose- so as not to do the same to others. In Exodus (22:20):" And you shall not mistreat a stranger, nor shall you oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt." And again: (Exodus 23:9): "And you shall not oppress a stranger, for you know the feelings of the stranger, since you were strangers in the land of Egypt." Also in Deuteronomy (10:19): "You shall love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt". Admirable sentiments – yet absent from the Hagaddah!
      The traditional Haggadah is a product of the Diaspora, at a time when Jews were sometimes persecuted and often lived in fear. The traditional text says that "now we are here (in the Diaspora), next year in Israel, now we are enslaved , next year we'll be free".
      So what I do is add emphasis on the universal message of liberation and, in line with the references above, Hillel's dictum: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah".( Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 31a)

  • NPR can't stop talking about Jews
  • Report from Bethlehem: Obama exploits the messenger of peace for a photo-op
  • Obama brokers Netanyahu apology to Turkey over 'Mavi Marmara' attack
  • Day Two of Obama in Israel/Palestine — Obama visits Ramallah and addresses the Israeli people
    • jon s March 21, 2013 at 5:49 pm with 9 replies

      Brown Eyed Girl, I'll try to answer you honestly, as an Israeli.
      By and large, we think of this of this land as our historic homeland , not land we "stole". (The Whites who emigrated to SouthAfrica weren't reconnecting to their historic homeland). So we feel quite at home here, and don't forget that by now, after over 100 years of Zionism and 65 years of Israel, a large portion of the population is native-born, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation Israelis, who know no other reality.
      No one denies the Palestinians exist. I, for one, believe in the urgent need to achieve peace through a two-state solution.

  • Obama praises Israel to high heavens as Israeli and American elite cement 'unbreakable' alliance
  • Day One of Obama in Israel/Palestine -- 'It's good to be back in the land of Israel,' Obama says in Hebrew
    • jon s March 22, 2013 at 1:44 am

      Sardelapasti,
      I wonder who's been asleep - my profile and my comments have been here for some time.
      "Zionist entity" - real denial-of-reality mode.

    • jon s March 21, 2013 at 5:18 pm

      "Am Yisrael Hai" is sinister only if you regard the survival of the Jewish people as sinister.
      Check it out:

      link to youtube.com

    • jon s March 21, 2013 at 4:59 pm

      Annie,
      So you chose to answer with yet another "whatabout" - this time trying to shift the topic from the attack on Ms.Larson to the children in Hebron. Looks like a tactic to avoid any kind of condemnation.

      There are plenty of threads here on which I don't comment. There's no way I can follow them all, let alone comment. I have a family, a job, a life - and I've found that MW is highly addictive...
      For the record, I think any abuse of children is horrible and contemptible. The whole situation is Hebron is an ongoing crime against the Palestinian population.

      I have no explanation for today's rockets: probably has to do with some outfit over there, or the Hamas itself, wanting to draw attention during Obama's visit. For me Sderot is personal: it's not far from my home, any escalation could affect us here in Beer Sheva, and my daughter works there.

    • jon s March 21, 2013 at 5:23 am

      Aha, you're using the "whatabout" argument.
      Ms.Larson was attacked in an ugly, thuggish , hate-filled way. So instead of condemning it , what you have to say is "what about Tristam"? In the debate over the boycott, for example, when I used the "whatabout" reasoning (as in whatabout countries with worse human-rights records) - my point was dismissed by the pro-boycott side.
      And I don't know about the "actress " part: she seems pretty sincere.

      On a different topic: two rockets fired from Gaza hit Sderot this morning.

    • jon s March 21, 2013 at 1:39 am

      The message was Am Yirael Hai - "the people of Israel live". An affirmation of life, of survival , certainly a "positive message".

    • jon s March 20, 2013 at 4:08 pm

      oops! that should be Gabby Silverman.

    • jon s March 20, 2013 at 2:37 pm

      A google-search reveals that Gabby Anderson and Tristan Anderson were a couple.
      Be that as it may, Ms.Larson certainly could press charges.

  • How do you say, 'Let them eat cake' in Arabic?
    • jon s March 20, 2013 at 12:51 pm

      Ramzi,
      The number of Jews in East Jerusalem between 1948 and 1967 was zero. The Jewish population had been ethnically cleansed.
      There was a Jewish majority in Jerusalem since the late 19th century.
      I can understand your bitterness , but you should also try to understand that we are not "invaders" , this is our homeland, as it is yours.

    • jon s March 19, 2013 at 5:50 pm

      Hostage, The link doesn't work - but I'm not disputing the data regarding the subdistrict. My comment related to the city as it was in the late 19th century.
      See here:
      link to israelipalestinian.procon.org

    • jon s March 19, 2013 at 2:37 am

      A clarification: some sources show an absolute majority, some a relative majority (in other words the Jewish population was the largest of the three : Jews, Moslems , Christians).

    • jon s March 19, 2013 at 2:17 am with 10 replies

      In fact Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since the 1880s.

  • Zionists thrill that Obama will recognize ancient Jewish connection to 'homeland' (undoing his Cairo error)
  • Vivian Gornick stashed book critical of Israel lest she 'commit literary suicide'
    • jon s March 16, 2013 at 5:14 pm with 4 replies

      This is Phil's caption:
      "Vivian Gornick stashed book critical of Israel lest she ‘commit literary suicide’".
      And this is the quote:
      "The country had not aroused my affection, and by then I had learned that to write critically, without sympathy, for the subject at hand was to commit literary suicide."
      Clearly Ms.Gornick is reflecting - in a general way- on the lesson she's learned , that a writer needs to write with sympathy towards the subject - otherwise it's "literary suicide", meaning the quality of the writing suffers. A far cry from Phil's caption.
      In the review itself she describes Yehoshua's stories as "remarkable, even profound", while obviously disagreeing with his critique of the Diaspora.

  • Covering Hamas and Palestinian society: A response to Peter Beinart
    • jon s March 19, 2013 at 2:11 am

      Hostage,
      Again, almost no Palestinian leaders or factions openly supported partition, or tried to moblize support for it, despite what some of them whispered among themselves, or told various sources .
      The non-aggresion pacts often didn't amount to much because in many cases outside forces had moved in -such as the Arab Salvation Army or the Egyptian Army or Moslem Brotherhood volunteers -and were calling the shots (literally). What befell the Palestian people was, indeed, a catastrophe and a tragedy.
      As for today, as you probably know from my posts, I support the two state solution, as the only practical way to ensure peace and equal rights for both peoples.

    • jon s March 18, 2013 at 5:48 pm

      In 1947-48 the Palestinians were indeed sharply divided, without a united leadership. However, non of the Palestinian factions openly expressed support for partition (the exception being the Communists, whose influence was negligible). Instead, they tried to prevent implementation of the partition plan by force, carrying out a series of attacks within days of the UN vote.
      "What if" questions are hazardous territory, and historians usually avoid them: after all, you can't prove the answers. But, still: a plausible alternative scenario - what if the Palestians and the Arab states had agreed to the partition plan, had established the proposed Arab-Palestinian State according to the plan, and expressed the desire to live in peace with the Jewish state? No war, no refugees... who knows?

    • jon s March 16, 2013 at 5:39 pm

      Cliff
      1.Interesting that you presume to know what I want to say.
      2.According to information published today most Americans do support Israel.
      3.Thanks for asking the moderators to allow my comment, but I don't know if it will have any effect. One of my recent comments was banned, when the strongest word I used was calling someone " clueless". I've been called a lot worse. You should know.
      4.On the Nakba, I think that the role of the Palestinians (primarily their leadership at the time) should be discussed. For instance , their decision to reject the UN partition plan, and to take up arms to prevent its implementation, and the consequences of those decisions.
      4. I have no problem discussing the roots of German Anti-Semitism.
      5. I've never deliberately lied on this forum. A little promise I made to myself.

    • jon s March 14, 2013 at 4:49 pm

      Annie,
      I could have guessed that you would try to create a balance between the "nakba denial" policy and holocaust denial.
      Of course I don't "deny" the nakba. Nakba means catastrophe , and no reasonable person would deny that the Palestinians suffered one in 1948. But -as far as I understand it - the policy here is that pointing out the Palestinians' role in the events of that period is a no-no. I don't buy equating that policy with holocaust denial.

    • jon s March 13, 2013 at 5:06 pm

      The ban on what you call "nakba denial" prevents any meaningful discussion of the events of 1948.

    • jon s March 11, 2013 at 5:39 pm with 38 replies

      See Judith Bell's comment regarding Mondoweiss below Beinart's article.

  • Celebrating 911
    • jon s March 11, 2013 at 2:02 am

      Tree,
      Answered you on that thread. Sorry about the delay.

    • jon s March 9, 2013 at 3:58 pm

      Chu,
      Dressing up in costumes developed as a take on the verse you quoted. The tables were turned , things are upside-down, so you dress as something else.
      The celebration is for the Jews in the story avoiding annihilation and emerging victorious over their enemies. You mention "Heaven" but in the story God isn't mentioned.

    • jon s March 9, 2013 at 3:50 pm

      True, it's not an argument . Like calling me adorable is not an argument.

    • jon s March 9, 2013 at 3:48 pm

      No, I'm adorable. Remember?

    • jon s March 9, 2013 at 2:04 am

      And note that Oswald's middle name was "Harvey". Obviously a Mossad agent.

    • jon s March 8, 2013 at 4:26 pm

      Cliff,
      I'm not at all insensitive to Palestinian suffering, and I believe in equality for all people. ("All people"-including the Jewish people).
      I've been personally involved in various efforts to promote mutual understanding and peace between Israelis and Palestinians through ending the occupation and the settlements in the framework of a two state solution .

    • jon s March 8, 2013 at 4:11 pm

      Sumud, I'm not fake anything ,just tried to think of an appropriate response to being called "adorable".

    • jon s March 8, 2013 at 7:25 am

      Avi G,
      I'm probably older than you, which is supposed to count for something in our culture, so I hope you weren't trying to be disrespectful.

    • jon s March 8, 2013 at 7:23 am with 8 replies

      Discussing 9/11 conspiracy theories on this forum is a violation of section 7 of the comments policy.

    • jon s March 8, 2013 at 1:09 am with 5 replies

      Israelis, by and large, were saddened and horrified by the 9/11 attacks, and grieved with the American people (also 5 Israelis were killed in the attacks). Many Israelis who were in NY volunteered to help on the site in the aftermath. And, yes, there was also an attitude of: "now the Americans will know what we mean when we talk about terrorism".

    • jon s March 7, 2013 at 5:02 pm with 18 replies

      Chu,
      I agree that the parents are responsible ,and most Israelis would regard that costume as an example of insensitivity and poor taste.
      Dressing in costume is part of the Purim tradition, taken from the words "it was reversed" in the Book of Esther 9:1.

  • Using secret travel ban, Israel prepares to deport activist Adam Shapiro preventing him from being at the birth of his first child
    • jon s March 10, 2013 at 5:29 pm

      Tree,
      (sorry about not replying sooner -and that you had to remind me on another thread. I can't spend all my time on MW)
      I've always admired the civi rights movement and the way they used non-violent tactics to achieve a worthy goal. They weren't disloyal: they exemplified all that is good in America.
      If Huwaida and Adam are non-violent activists and their goal is -in your words - "making Israel a less racist country" then I share that goal and I even try to do my small part. If they seek to end Israel's existence - then I've got a problem with them. The civil rights activists in the American South did not question - much less oppose - America's existence.

    • jon s March 7, 2013 at 4:45 pm

      As I recall ,Lansky was denied citizenship, because of being an alleged criminal. He tied up the courts for a couple of years but eventually lost.

    • jon s March 7, 2013 at 4:39 pm

      Fine. I wish them well and hope that the baby will be healthy and that they remember that obtaining citizenship - in any country, including Israel - goes with an obligation to be a loyal and law-abiding citizen.

    • jon s March 7, 2013 at 3:54 pm with 15 replies

      Let me get this straight: the anti-Israel activist couple are making a huge effort to obtain Israeli citizenship for their child. According to the quote provided by Allison, Mr.Shapiro has a problem even acknowledging "the existence of the state", yet they want to make sure that their kid will be entitled to the citizenship of that state.
      Anyone notice a bit of hypocrisy here?

    • jon s March 7, 2013 at 5:36 am

      The two British sargeants executed by the IZL were Clifford Martin and Mervyn Paice. I've never heard anything about them being Jewish or spies for the "bots". Whatever "bots" are.(?)
      Do you have any info on that? Links?

  • Settlers party for Purim amidst clashes in Hebron
    • jon s March 7, 2013 at 4:17 pm

      The Book of Esther - fiction or not- is the story of the Jews successfully resisting and foiling attempted genocide. Does that bother you?

  • The false equivalence of liberal Zionists
  • 'J Street' leader hints that 2013 is make-or-break for two-state solution
    • jon s February 27, 2013 at 2:20 pm with 1 replies

      sardelapati,
      You seem to be incapable of simply commenting on topic without your stupid hate-filled insults. I don't know why you're so full of hatred, but I'm not a shrink. Maybe you should see one.

    • jon s February 27, 2013 at 10:52 am with 80 replies

      There was a remarkable interview with Prof.Yehuda Bauer in Haaretz. This is part of what he had to say on "one state":

      "The dream of a binational state and a state of all its citizens has no chance. That dream would mean a permanent civil war and mutual killing. Those who want to foment potential genocide here can do so by advocating a binational state for all its citizens."

      The entire interview is here:
      link to haaretz.com

      Incidentally, is Phil saying that Gaza is not controlled by Hamas? News to me...

  • 'Guardian' reports Israeli shootings of Palestinian boys. NPR reports, Palestinians want to kill Israelis
    • jon s February 27, 2013 at 11:14 am with 2 replies

      As far as I know "the end justifies the means" is attributed to Machiavelli, and in the modern era is seen as typical of totalitarian movements and regimes. In regard to all those who subscribed to that attitude : we usually remember only their means. The "end" was never achieved.

  • Israel is Dodge Country
    • jon s February 27, 2013 at 9:29 am

      American military aid to Israel is -at least partly- an accounting trick: funds are transferred from the American Treasury to American corporations in the defense industry, via the Israeli treasury. Cessation of the aid would, indeed, cost thousands of American jobs, so no US Administration would take such a decision lightly. Aside from the fact that Israel needs to maintain its military capability, even from the perspective of advancing the chances for peace.
      As for non-military aid: as an Israeli I say you can end it tomorrow, or at least make it conditional on ending the settlements.

  • Years of impunity for Israeli leaders may draw to a close in Turkish flotilla trial
  • The controversy over the Oscars joke that Jews run Hollywood
  • Ten years after Rachel Corrie's killing, AIPAC conference will feature Caterpillar executive
  • Autopsy reveals Arafat Jaradat died of extreme torture in Israeli custody
    • jon s February 25, 2013 at 6:19 am with 4 replies

      I think we should wait for the results of the autopsy.
      That said, if it turns out that his death was caused by mistreatment of any kind while in custody - those responsible should be prosecuted and punished, no cover-up, no bullshit.

  • BDS activists: Alicia Keys 'stand on the side of justice and cancel your gig in Tel Aviv'
    • jon s February 26, 2013 at 1:24 pm

      What's with the quotation marks?
      Israel isn't real?

    • jon s February 25, 2013 at 4:06 pm

      Yonah,
      The term "racism" is often used referring to discrimination, persecution and hatred directed at nationalities, religions and ethnic groups, not only towards races.
      Jews are not a race, yet Anti-Semitism is considered a form of racism.

    • jon s February 25, 2013 at 6:26 am

      Where did I say that ?
      For the fourth time: the performance will not be for "a segregated audience".

    • jon s February 24, 2013 at 1:27 pm

      Ms Keys can perform in Ramallah, in which case Israelis would be limited in their ability to attend.
      And if she performs in Chicago people all over the world who don't hold US visas are similarly limited.

    • jon s February 24, 2013 at 1:21 pm

      This is the relevant Webster definition of "segregation":

      a: the separation or isolation of a race, class, or ethnic group by enforced or voluntary residence in a restricted area, by barriers to social intercourse, by separate educational facilities, or by other discriminatory means.

      Once again: Ms Keys will not be performing to " a segregated audience" . Therefore the statement is a lie.

    • jon s February 24, 2013 at 4:25 am

      Why don't you just suggest boycotting anyone who disagrees with you?

    • jon s February 24, 2013 at 2:41 am with 10 replies

      The text is clear :
      "Alicia Keys is scheduled to play to a segregated audience"
      The audience won't be segregated, so it's a lie.

    • jon s February 23, 2013 at 5:41 pm with 4 replies

      Cliff,
      There are threats right here on this thread.
      So now I'm a monster. Why is it that you need to resort to personal verbal abuse? You call me a monster, I'll call you a monster back, great discussion of the issue.

    • jon s February 23, 2013 at 5:24 pm with 26 replies

      Galloway is teaching how racism is done.

    • jon s February 23, 2013 at 11:49 am with 18 replies

      "Segregated audience"? Implying Alabama in the 1950s ? South Africa under apartheid?
      Hopefully Ms.Keys will turn out to be intelligent enough to recognize a blatant lie and brave enough to withstand the threats. See you in TelAviv.

      And Happy Purim to all those who celebrate!!

  • Future Democratic leaders at Harvard are 'infuriated' at Israel, 'Haaretz' reports
  • Gay porn mogul unveils pinkwashing documentary
  • First they stole our books, then they took our story
  • Israel’s Identity Crisis: The practical difficulties of a Jewish and democratic state
    • jon s February 20, 2013 at 3:37 pm

      Ellen,
      The country also known as Canaan, Judea, Palestine, the Holy Land...
      A distinction should be made between the geographic aspect and the political. Geographically the land is generally considered to be within the following boundaries : the Med on the West, the desert on the East, Lebanon to the North , the Sinai and Red Sea to the South.
      Political borders of the various entities that have existed in the country over the centuries have varied according to the political realities.

      Perhaps I should add a third aspect: the boundaries according to Halakha, Jewish religious law. Those boundaries are also different from the political ones.

    • jon s February 20, 2013 at 5:26 am

      Seanmcbride,

      There are several dimensions here:
      I was brought up in a Jewish and Zionist family.
      I grew up in Israel, have lived here most of my life, went to school, served in the IDF, pay taxes, raised a family. So in that respect my attachment is no different from anyone's natural sentiments towards ones home.
      I'm not Orthodox, though I'm something of a traditionalist: I keep a kosher home, have a Friday night Kiddush, observe the holidays.
      My professional field is Jewish History.

      I think Zionism was a Jewish response –one of several- to the challenges of modernity. And, yes it was quite natural. I'm not sure what you mean by "organic", though I suppose my answer would be a "yes" there, too.
      Notice my use of the past tense.
      Today Zionism has come to mean different things. For most Israelis Zionism simply means patriotism. For most Jewish Zionists it means a basic affirmation of the ties between Israel and world Jewry , the existence of a " Jewish People" and support for the concept of a Jewish State in Israel.

    • jon s February 19, 2013 at 1:29 am

      Phil,
      Indeed, if an ideology fails it finds itself in the "dustbin of history" (Trotsky's phrase, I think). The question is whether or not Zionism is a failed ideology.

    • jon s February 17, 2013 at 4:43 pm

      Cliff
      On this point I don' t follow your reasoning: Zionism did indeed arise- at least in part - in response to the emergence of modern Anti-Semitism and was influenced by the rise of nationalist movements all over Europe. Why does that make it "inauthentic"? I would think that if a movement develops in response to certain realities - that would mean it's authentic.

    • jon s February 17, 2013 at 4:24 pm

      Cliff,
      To what extent present day Jews are directly descended from the Jews of 2000 years ago is a fascinating subject... if you're interested in ideas of "racial purity", "bloodlines" and such. I'm not. Over the generations people intermarried, converted, migrated -the result being the Jewish people of today. What's important is that the Jews preserved an identity and an historic memory, whatever their biological lineage.
      I didn't mention Islam or any other religion on this thread . You say that Islam and Christianity don't have "homelands" , and I'm willing to take your word on that , but Judaism is not (only) a religion , and it most definitely does have one , the Land of Israel. There are plenty of Jews today who are totally non-religious, yet fiercely Jewish: Sabbath-desecrating, lobster-eating, Jewish nationalists. If Judaism was only a religion-they wouldn't exist. As to what you describe as a blip: you're
      referring to periods of Jewish sovereignty , such as the Hasmonean kingdom. But Israel continued to be considered the Jewish homeland during the long periods of foreign rule under the Persians, Romans, Arabs, Crusaders , and others. Those empires were simply much more powerful politically and militarily, and the Jews were no match for them.
      If you really want to learn more –you can consult any reliable historical atlas or textbook.

    • jon s February 17, 2013 at 1:07 am

      Annie,
      If you don't know where your ancestors came from, but the Jews have preserved their identity and their connection to their historic homeland - that sort of proves my point.
      It's not only a matter of forefathers: Jews maintained ties to, and a continuous presence , in the land throughout the generations.
      As to the question of "why didn't they go" - you can ask that of any movement or event in history. Why did the American Revolution break out in 1776 and not earlier or later? Because the conditions weren't right yet.

      A child's birthday party? You lost me there.

    • jon s February 16, 2013 at 2:32 pm

      Cliff,
      Israel is the historic Jewish homeland, as anyone with even a superficial knowledge of Jewish history knows.
      I could understand if you said that in your view the history is irrelevant to the present day issues, but denying it is absurd.

  • Is Ed Koch's passing another sign of lobby's generational fade?
    • jon s February 4, 2013 at 3:46 pm

      Ramzi, absolutely not.

    • jon s February 4, 2013 at 5:40 am with 3 replies

      The inscription on the headstone is, indeed, unique - but not incorrect.
      Those were Danny Pearl's brave last words, and he really was beheaded by jihadists.The awful deed was allegedly done by Khaled Sheikh Mohammad, mastermind of 9/11.

    • jon s February 4, 2013 at 12:29 am

      I'm astonished that the moderators passed CloakandDaggers' vicious comment.
      " When your enemy falls, do not rejoice, and when he stumbles, let your heart not exult.." (Proverbs, 24:17)

  • 'The tide of public opinion is turning' -- Committee for Open Discussion of Zionism commends Brooklyn College
  • Meet the Knesset's newest settler members
  • If you were a Palestinian Israeli, and your polling place looked like this--
    • jon s February 4, 2013 at 9:41 am

      I don't follow your reasoning. Does the fact that the Kurds are fellow-Moslems mean that they are not victims of discrimination? And is the ethnic cleansing in Northern Cyprus OK because the Greeks aren't Turkish citizens?
      Israel, as a Jewish state with a Jewish majority, uses Jewish symbols. Why is that surprising, or wrong?
      I'll leave it to any fair and intelligent reader of our exchange to make a judgement as to who made it personal and who has been honest.

    • jon s February 3, 2013 at 9:55 pm

      Avi, So I understand that your problem is not with the flag and emblem, but with the discrimination.
      Turkey sure isn't a good example of non-discrimination. Ask the Kurds, ask the Greeks who were ethnically cleansed from Northern Cyprus.
      I don't see why you have to make the discussion personal. So as not to dodge your question: I was brought here as a kid by my parents, z"l, who were lifelong Zionists. Checks from the JA? Huh? Where do I get them?
      Now it's your turn: seeing that your name is Avi, have you emigrated? how long ago? do you retain ties with family and friends?

    • jon s February 3, 2013 at 1:02 am with 7 replies

      Not only northern Europe. See the flags of Switzerland and of Greece.
      And the flags of Arab and Moslem countries contain symbols of Islam : the crescent, the color green.

    • jon s February 2, 2013 at 4:44 pm

      Plenty of Western, democratic, countries have crosses on their flags.

    • jon s February 2, 2013 at 2:53 pm with 4 replies

      Tommy,
      Arab nationalism, including the Palestinian branch, was also influenced by European nationalism.
      You seem to think that the Palestinians were some sort of pacifists, victims of the "warring ways" of the Israelis, whom you regard as European colonizers and aliens. All of which is far from the truth.
      On the topic here : it's beyond me why anyone would think it odd that the national flag and emblem are displayed at polling places.

  • Israeli election revealed 'a total lack of political mobilization against' the occupation
    • jon s January 26, 2013 at 2:54 pm with 1 replies

      Here's my take on the election results :

      1. We've been told for years that from year to year, election to election, Israel is inexorably drifting to the Right. Well, that wasn't the case this time. Netanyahu and his party were given a slap in the face, losing around 1/4 of the votes they received last time. Lots of people have had it up to here with the palace intrigues of the Bibizantyne Empire. It's true that part of that loss went to other extreme Rightwing parties, especially Bennet's Habayit Hayehudi. But that's not the whole story: there was also a shift from the Right to the Center (thus Lapid's achievement) and from the Center to the Left (thus Meretz' achievement. ) Not a victory, but moderately encouraging.
      2. The Center : past experience shows that Center parties are one-hit wonders . They always disintegrate before the next elections : "DASH", the Center Party, Shinui, Kadima…Maybe the "Center" is an illusion in Israeli politics.
      3. Labour: Yehimovitz thought she could campaign purely as a Social Democrat, while ignoring the "gorilla in the room": the "minor" matter of the territories, the settlements, the Palestinians, war or peace…Sort of reminded me of the "Don't mention the war!" episode of Fawlty Towers.
      4. Meretz: there's something to be said for integrity, hard work and staying loyal to your principles. Great job ! (and –maybe next time- not an all-Ashkenazi faction.)
      5. The Arab vote: a higher percentage of Israel's Palestinian citizens voted compared with the previous election, but, still, too many don't vote. If the Arab turnout had been the same as in the Jewish sector- Netanyahu wouldn't be Prime Minister.

  • Election Day in Jerusalem: Deciding to vote, boycott or rebel
  • More on 'Israel and the nomination of Chuck Hagel'
  • What left? The rightwing bloc is over 100 Knesset seats -- Derfner
    • jon s January 22, 2013 at 3:29 pm with 8 replies

      Breaking: According to the exit polls: Likud Beitenu disappointed with 31 seats projected.
      Huge achievement for Yair Lapid's "center" party (18-19)
      Labour:17
      Left opposition doing well: Meretz doubles to 6-7, Hadash up to 5.

    • jon s January 22, 2013 at 1:34 pm with 4 replies

      Earlier today I voted - for MERETZ, a party that certainly qualifies as a fighting, genuine, opposition.

  • Israeli reporter admits suppressing images of 'piles of bodies of civilians' when Israel went 'crazy' in Gaza
  • Visualizing Palestine: Imagine if you were born at an Israeli checkpoint
    • jon s January 23, 2013 at 4:17 pm

      Eljay,
      My turn to ask you a question: do I understand correctly from your previous post that you accept the principle of partition? Two states, as recommended by the UN in 1947?
      If you accept the principle, as I do, then the drawing of the precise borders becomes a practical, political , issue , to be worked out between the sides.

    • jon s January 23, 2013 at 2:25 pm

      Shmuel,
      You seem to be saying, in effect, that we need to accept the radical Palestinian position, period. I happen to think that negotiation, concessions and compromise (by both sides) are not dirty words.
      Implementing the RoR in the Palestinian state is a reasonable and practical option. You accuse me of dishonesty, but it seems to me that demanding the RoR to their actual former homes inside Israel , without admitting that that's a euphemism for the destruction of Israel - there's the dishonesty.

    • jon s January 23, 2013 at 1:07 am

      Eljay,
      You're assuming where I stand on the right of return, an issue which I didn't mention on this thread. I don't oppose the Palestinian RoR, as long as it's implemented in the context of the Palestinian State. In other words the Palestinian refugees who so wish will return to Palestine, to the Palestinian State established in the two state solution.
      The borders should be based on the pre-1967 lines, any alterations - to be negotiated.

    • jon s January 22, 2013 at 2:38 pm

      Cliff
      "One Palestinian got an aspirin..." - What can I say? Get on a plane, land in Israel, walk into any hospital, see for yourself...

    • jon s January 22, 2013 at 10:12 am

      Eljay,
      As you can imagine, I don't agree with your narrative.
      If you've read my past posts you know that I strongly support two states: both peoples have equal rights, including the right to self-determination, in states of their own. Self-determination means just that, the right to determine, democratically, the system of government, and the definition of the state's character. So my answer to your questions is "no".

    • jon s January 22, 2013 at 10:01 am

      MRW,
      I've read them.

    • jon s January 22, 2013 at 9:57 am

      Hostage,
      I don't know what planet you live on. Most of the states in the world today are nation-states. As a matter of fact since the collapse of Communism and the dissolution of the USSR, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia, the number of nation-states has actually increased. In the near future we may see the establishment of independent nation-states in Scotland and Catalonia. So much for "anachronism".
      My parents, of blessed memory, are long gone. Your mention of them was uncalled-for , a cheap shot.

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