A few weeks back at Columbia, I watched with amazement as the former Israeli soldier Yehuda Shaul, who started the group Breaking the Silence, gave his presentation on the horrors of the occupation to about 75 students in a darkened hall. My amazement had to do with the fact that Shaul’s visit was sponsored by a largely-Jewish group at Columbia—Pro-Israel Progressives—and was attended by members of the Hillel chapter at the school. Kudos to them.
After Shaul’s speech, representing “my comrades and not just myself,” he was bombarded by hostile questions from Israel supporters in the audience. Shaul handled them with strength and ease. (Q. “Do you know of a counterpart organization where Palestinians question their moral decisions?” A. “I really don’t care—I am an Israeli who has to raise his children in Israel…”)
Just as gripping to me was the discussion that took place after the event between Rachel Glaser, the campus coordinator of the rightwing Zionist Organization of America, and the students who had organized the event.
“What did this accomplish? What did it accomplish?” Glaser barked at the organizers.
“It achieved something important,” one of the Jewish students said. “People perceive pro-Israel groups as monolithic. They think that we are not able to take responsibility for the bad things that happen.”
Fine, Glaser said, but the students should have organized “a panel,” in which Shaul was just one voice. “Have someone else,” she said. (Just as the New York Theatre Workshop wanted to “contextualize” the Rachel Corrie play with pro-Israel voices.)
It was one thing to have Yehuda Shaul give a talk inside Israel, Glaser said. “Outside of Israel, you’re playing with fire.”
This chilling statement was a candid expression of the goals of the Israel lobby. A member of a Jewish organization was saying that it’s OK to have a wide-open discussion of these issues in Israel, but it’s dangerous to have such a discussion here. Why? Because America is the mainstay of support allowing Israel to continue its policies in the Occupied Territories. The Israel lobby fears that Americans, if left to their own devices, will abandon Israel, out of indifference, or antisemitism. So Americans must be influenced—in this case by having the information they get about Israel/Palestine vetted, and by pressuring Jews on campus to toe the party line.
I bring this up because Glaser’s group, the Zionist Organization of America, is now trying to have the Jewish group that sponsored Shaul’s tour, the Union of Progressive Zionists, kicked out of a consortium of campus groups that promote Israel’s image on campuses. Why? Because (per the Jewish Telegraphic Agency) “Jewish money should not be spent on programming that provides fodder for Israel’s most virulent critics.”
This is shameful news. Jews are better than this, America is better than this…
Well, ZOA don't want to let any not revisionist tendencies gain any traction. They are a revisionist partisan outfit. That's nothing new.
It's amazing to me that in the face of such disciplined gatekeeping here, it is not recognized by most as happening elsewhere, and on a far larger scale.
"It achieved something important," one of the Jewish students said. "People perceive pro-Israel groups as monolithic. They think that we are not able to take responsibility for the bad things that happen."
If only he had said it was important because what is being done in Palestine is a crime. If only he had said it was important American Jews are, as a group, responsible for the crime. As it is, he appears to think it's important because it promotes a flattering image of Jews.
This is just more of the judeocentric gatekeeping that has poisoned the Left in this country.
Great piece, Phil.
Funny how the self-proclaimed advocates of Israel do not understand that the best hasbara (information/propaganda) for Israel is by exposing Americans to the best Israelis, the most thoughtful — which means opponents of the occupation. The Jewish right think it advances Israel's cause by presenting the Ugly Israel, the defenders of the occupation, the racists, the Carter-bashers, the Israel-is-always-right crowd.
In fact, a truly successful pro-Israel strategy would only showcase the good Israel, not the thugs.
I think an event like this is truly significant because the Jewish kids who attend will, perhaps, join forces with those Israelis, American Jews, Palestinians and others who are determined to achieve a fair, just two-state agreement.
The ZOA and others of their ilk do more damage to Israel than to anyone else. But they will never understand that. Hate overpowers rational thought.
this type of censorship is going to lead to people giving up on israel and abandoning it. the argument being: if muslims are as horrible as the zionists say, the jews should leave. that's the direction it's going in the US. ms glaser is the one playing with fire
The premises of Weiss' column are false. It is not dangerous, inconvenient or difficult to criticize Israel or Israeli policies. It is done all the time. It is the default position on campus. It is common in the Jewish community. What have been the adverse consequences to any of the critics?
What Weiss fails to do is address the real problem. How does a democratic society maintain its reasonable security when faced with a neighboring population implacably hostile to its existence: but to which the democratic society is militarily dominant? What is the tolerable level of domestic disruption,inconvenience and casualties in the moral and political interests in maintaining the comfort or pride of the hostile neighbors?
It isn't as though the Israelis engage in this gratuitously. They conduct their policies in order to physically safeguard the Israeli population as best as they can consistent with not inflicting counterproductive or gratuitous violence or sanctions on their hostile neighbors.
Doves in this process always contend the Israeli actions are the issue; but short of disappearing there has been nothing the Israelis have been able to do that has ever been theoretically acceptable to the Arab states around it.
The "lost opportunities " always turn out to be partial or conditional or preconditions or insincere.
That doesn't absolve the Israelis of the responsibility to try to maintain a morally defensible defense policy; but it does place in context the circumstances in which their practical choices must be made.
p isaac- your boring pre-written "post" is refuted by the "playing with fire" remark in the piece you didn't read
"Hate overpowers rational thought."
BTW, although I think most people can sense the hatred energizing the rabid Israel supporters ("Bill Pearlman" springs to mind), I'm curious just where you think this hate is focused. Is it Muslims they hate? Is it the Jewish-American students who have a different strategy for normalizing Israel's image? Is it the American students who attend events like this and start asking questions? Is it American society for permitting their schools to voice these points of view? Or is it a broader hatred of all Gentiles?
If you divide the world into us and them, and don't trust them enough to let them hear the truth, what is the right word for that attitude?
How many anti-Israel "progressives" does it take to screw in a lightbulb? It doesn't matter, they'll never see the light anyway.
p isaac: "They conduct their policies in order to physically safeguard the Israeli population as best as they can consistent with not inflicting counterproductive or gratuitous violence or sanctions on their hostile neighbors."
today's headline: "Israel has approved a new settlement in the West Bank to house former Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip."
ah, i didn't know there was a moral equivalence between the building of homes on land that's housed jews for millennia and the murder women and children in malls, cafes, and buses. thanks for clearing that up though.
How many Palestinians does it take to change a lightbulb?
None, they sit in the dark and blame Israel.
lester, first, you didn't even address my first point which is , how does anyone suffer for even the most egregious falsehoods regarding Israel , much less vitriolic but plausible debate? How and where are they visibly damaged?
second, you may be wrapped up in Israel failing to measure up to whatever p.r. yardstick you set, however impossible it might be for a real country in Israel's position but that is irrelevant to the realities of a country which doesn't intend to disappear and which has every reason to believe it has been and still is surrounded by groups sworn to its destruction. Yeah, that boring detail again.
p isaac: "What have been the adverse consequences to any of the critics?"
If you haven't been paying attention to the current campaign against Jimmy Carter, then ask Joseph Massad at Columbia, or Juan Cole at Michigan, or the former academic dean of Harvard's Kennedy School–Stephen Walt, or Norman Finkelstein at De Paul, or Tony Judt at NYU. All can tell you what the price is for opposing the lobby.
Trouvere: ( sounds like a french collaberator by the way) Jimmy Carter is all over the news with his shit eating grin. Joseph Massad is up for tenure. Juan Cole is also doing fine. Walt and Mearsheimer have a book deal. Tony Judt is waltzing around NY crying in hiscups. And the ever popular Norman Finkelstein is a fraud. There is no way that somebody could be has twisted has him with out being really sick. Oh and he is still teaching at Depaul.
However, maybe someone should ask Theo Van Gogh what he thinks about all this. I forgot, you can't, he got a knife in the chest. Or maybe Daniel Pearl, oh I forgot he got beheaded. Why is it that its Jewish institutions that have to have security guards, why not mosques, explain that one to me scumbag
According to p isaac, when people lose their homes, farms and livelihood, become refugees on their own land and are subjected for decades to the great injustices and humiliation of a strong State power and its brutal occupation, they have no reason to be hostile. It is a matter of psychopathology, put them on the psychiatrist's couch!
I mean, what animals on their right minds would ever object to all that and would not simply accept the superiority of the Israeli State and the holiness of its settlement project, would not accept the moral superiority of the Zionist ideal and refuse to become victims themselves and simply disappear?
Yeah, it creates a small PR problem when dealing with such hostile, pathologic animals with more humiliation tactics and violence, and with more settlements for the Meir Kahane-type humanists on stolen private land. (Yeah, stolen private land. 40% of all settlements are built on private Palestinian land, but hey, nobody ever said life is fair).
And how can all those (150!) countries still castigate Israel for doing what every other civilized country would do in Israel's place, discipline the pathologic animals with collective punishment? Isn't it morally right in the 21st century to respond to hostile actions like the kidnapping of a soldier or two for a prisoner exchange with the flattening of a country and, say, 4 million cluster bombs? The Germans in WWII used to kill 10-20 men for every soldier killed by resistance forces. Why not kill today, in the 21st century, 1200 people including women and children for two kidnapped soldiers (Lebanon) or 400 for one kidnapped soldier (Gaza) instead? And if other occupying powers, like the English in Ireland, never contemplated air bombardments and artillery shellings of Dublin as a legitimate response to IRA terrorist actions, hell, we know they were and are shameless appeasers and wimps!
Yes, p isaac, you have a point. So let me send some Kurds, wronged people who have been persecuted by everyone for centuries and who still don't have a state, to your community and you, your family and neighbours go live as refugees. Let me be a humanitarian this Christmas!
And don't you dare suggest that I can't be a noble humanitarian at your expense! That would be hostile and I might send a few jets for some nice sonic booms over your head to teach you a lesson, as every civilized person would do to unreasonable people like you.
P.S. As far as the "PR yardstick" goes, in the National Brands Index Israel recently broke the Guinness negative record. Some unreasonable people might consider this a wake-up call, especially when 150 countries consistently castigate Israel at the UN and world public opinion consistently considers Israel the greatest threat to world peace. But not the Likudniks! Everything is going fine and Israel has a great future in such circumstances. Just get Karen Hughes to devise a smart PR campaign and everything will be just fine.
On military occupations and natives being "hostile":
"They're not happy they're occupied. I wouldn't be happy if I were occupied either."
President George W. Bush on Iraqis, addressing the Nation in Prime Time Press Conference, April 2004.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040413-20.html
"My Name Is Rachel Corrie" got shut down in Toronto before it opened, pressure from Canadian Jewish group, producer concerned about "Jewish sensibilities". I guess Jewish sensibilities outweighs American sensibilities these days. Rachel Corrie was an American citizen murdered with an IDF bulldozer during the ethnic cleansing in Palestine.
If she wasn't important, why do they keep trying to suppress the play?
Pearlman, how about "Krasner", does that sound like a Zionist collaborator to you?
Brenda, what about all the Israeli Rachels who were deliberately murdered by Palestinians wanting to ethnically cleanse Israel? Where are the plays documenting their lives?
oh yeah theres never any adverse reaction to criticism of israel in the US. not at all. everyone feels safe speaking their mind on that particular issue
would you care to write sometime addressing an issue that has been done to death but one which people keep forgetting?
That is, although Judaism, Jewishness, and Zionism may share common elements, they are not synonyms, not congruent, i.e. equal in all respects.
Even within Zionism, allegedly a secular socio-political movement, there is a wide spectrum, say, from Uri Avnery to Meyrav Wurmser.
It would seem that elements from the last-named sllice of the Zionist spectrum appear to believe that they, and they alone, are synonymous with everything remotely associately associated with Judaism: anything not under their imprimatur is a priori anti-Semitic.
I think this is not merely disingenuous but a species of insanity.
Once again the comments have turned into bashing the "pro-debate" group leading to the "anti-Israel" groups whining which in turn leads to who has suffered more group until everyone is calling everyone names.
I believe the point of this article was to highlight an Israeli soldier’s struggle to unveil the atrocities being committed by himself and his fellow soldiers. Someone who looks at the dehumanization of a group of people and what it leads him to do. If any of you get a chance to hear Yehuda Shaul speak I suggest you do. You will be surprised just how patriotic he is and how much he loves Israel. He feels that it's the mindset that needs to be changed. He wants his family to be safe and sees the current occupation as the incorrect way to achieve this. He also realized what a terrible task it would be to take this debate to the occupation's largest support base. Just by reading the comments I can see this fear was not baseless. If all this could only lead to debate.
This comment is for Rachel Glaser. You must think the American people are stupid. We are no longer going to accept the lies from the likes of you. We want, no, we demand an open and honest discussion regarding America's foreign policy in the middle east.
Americans really need to wake up to the 'occupation' of our country by Jews since WWII and their phoney holocaust.
20 million Russians died. Perhaps 600,000 Jews died of typhus or related illnesses.
The ovens?
Jews created their own reality, making themselves perpetual victims – to garner support for their genocidal policies toward another minority – Arabs.
Jews are the true NEO Nazis… killing Palestinian children to keep the demographics in check for their ethnocentric agenda.
America is Sobibor WEST with a Jew in every watchtower.
Islam should be seen as the savior, the great equalizer that will save the useful goy of America from their tormentors.
Julia good post how true
The 'lobby' financed by jews/zionist of the world jewry have so twisted reality that jews from the 1940s are still able to sue European countries for alleged stealing wealth from them…but the Arabs/Palestinians from when the jews invaded and stole their land can not
I read just lately where the jews are asking for the pope to stop scientific investigations into the so called holocaust I wonder why?
Julia, Jim:
How was the weather in Teheran. And just what do you guys do at night when your out on the town. And what piece of whale shit did you guys crawl out from under. Although thats kind of insulting to whale shit
Jim,
Where, was this bit of info about the Pope, and who is asking?
Julia, regardless of the despicable actions of large numbers of individuals in occupied Palestine, 'Islam' is no 'savior'.
Bill, just a guess here but you're not Palestinian or Persian, are you?
Then God spoke all these words: I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an image, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name. Remember the sabbath day, and keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work. But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and consecrated it. Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.
Jon, about the Israeli Rachel:
I am an American citizen and I am speaking for an American martyr to the Middle East War. I do not subscribe to Fox (Likud) News rules of "fair & balanced", so-called. Those scales are weighted to favor Israel.
Ask yourself this: why should an American feel obliged to balance an Israeli war-crime against an American citizen with a Palestinian war-crime against an Israeli?
American taxpayers are financing Israel's perpetual war. That's enough. There is no need for us to have our thought-processes commandeered as well as our money. If an American is murdered by an Israeli soldier during the course of a war which America is financing, then we bloody well want to hear about it and discuss it.
BTW, I do not share the opinion of Julia Gifford or Jim. I do accept the Jewish loss of 6 million dead in attempted genocide. But I am still named a holocaust denier in some circles because I insist on putting those Jewish losses into context: 20-25 million civilian deaths from war crimes in WW2, including war crimes committed by the Allies, attempted genocide of both Jews and Roma/Gypsies, 3 million Polish Jews AND 3 million Polish gentiles exterminated by the Nazis, 11 million total concentration camp deaths. We've had enough death already!
I believe that Israel uses her own construct of "The Holocaust" to excuse Israeli war crimes and territorial ambitions in the ME today, and part of that use is the suppression of the Rachel Corrie play. It isn't only that a Rachel died at the hands of a ME war combatant — it's what exactly that particular Rachel was doing there. Theatre-goers will learn something about the true nature of the Israeli Occupation of Palestine if they are allowed to see this play. And to ensure that they won't, "Jewish sensibilities" are offered up. Jews are so sensitive about Israel that they can't allow this play to be seen in America or Canada — and this exquisite sensitiveness needs no explanation. Because we all know about "the Holocaust".
I much preferred the less-ambitious, non-capitalized "shoah".
The disgusting comments on this article (the ones by crazy pro-israel guys) show that the article is 100% correct.
In the words of the great American, Mr. Rodney King; "Can we all just get along."
Firstly, let me give a definition of a Jew as a member of a certain race who may or may not hold to a religious faith known as Judaism. Religious or not, he/she remains a Jew. Some may dispute my definition, but bear with me please.
So long as Jews practise their religion and celebrate their culture I have zero problem with them – would open my arms to them as friends and comrades: I shall never discriminate on religious or racial grounds and I have no right whatever to do so in a civilized society.
However, once they start to enter the political arena and to pursue a self-serving agenda that impacts others adversely, then I must have something to say. Then I shall feel obliged to oppose them and speak out against their mission.
Through clever use of mass psychology certain Jews have managed to confuse us by vigorously pursuing a political agenda and, when that agenda is rightfully attacked, they use their ethnicity as a shield and brand all who oppose them racists.
Of course many of us see what's going on – our frustration at being unable to reply for fear of being called anti-Semites may very well cause us to lose objectivity and become just that!
If you read the Old Testament you will recognize ideas that, nowadays, would be regarded as violently racist and genocidal. The Chosen People are enjoined by G-d to either slaughter or to enslave the Gentiles. Few Jews today believe the bible literally but those who do happen to hold great sway in Israel; they include many of the settlers and, as most of us know, through the likes of Sharon, Netanyahu and Avigdor Leibermann, they have managed to stamp their influence on the majority government now in power in Israel. The task of their propagandists (the Lobby) in the USA is to conceal this agenda, this intensely political and racist agenda, from the masses. Israelis of their sort treat American wannabes with contempt (while extolling them to cough up money on demand!) and, obligingly, these Americans do behave quite contemptibly. The weapon that keeps them in line is their guilt at not having been born Israelis- and so, to compensate, they posture and strut before the rest of us as more extreme than any member of Likud.
We are starting to see cracks in this nasty facade, with prominent American Jews having the courage to speak out and, of course, with events such as the one which triggered this thread being able to take place. Let's hope it continues.
Remember the USS Liberty. Isreal sold its soul to the nuclear Gods. Hopefully it will perish by it!!
Brenda,
Thanks for shedding some perspective on the Holocaust. For the Holocaust deniers out there, go to the concentration camps in Poland. Still around. Go to Majdanek if you can't make it to the bigger one (Auscwitz, or Oswiecimie). I saw the ovens, gas chambers, old empty cans of Cyclon B, several barracks full of children's shoes…little shoes…piled up to the ceiling. But, I also know 3 million Polish Catholics were murdered in those same camps…they were the first to die in the death camps located on occupied Polish territory. Someone mentioned the Russians. Go sometimes to the Russian Victory Museum, and see some of the old photographs of atrocities commited by the Germans against the Russians. So lets be clear- the Jews DO NOT have a monopoly on suffering. Over in Asia right around the same time, the Japanese were raping and murdering (and poisoning and experimenting on) the Chinese and Koreans. Why is it that no one's coined a special phrase for them? Why is it that when I once mentioned that not only Jews were being systematically exterminated in WWII, people were genuinly surprised? Read Hitler's Mein Kampf. He goes into quite a bit of detail regarding his plans. Believe me…the Jews, Slavs (all Slavs), Gypsies, Africans…anyone deemed non-Aryan, was in his sights. Check out the actual casualty figures from WWII. 1st place- Russia. 2nd-Poland. 3rd-Yugoslavia…for the European theater of war. So let me say it again….the Jews DO NOT have a MONOPOLY ON SUFFERING.
So let's stop with the bull**it. Just because the Germans went nuts (again) 65 years ago is not an excuse for either Israeli foreign policy today, or for American support of Israeli foreign policy.
What is happening today between the Israelis and Palestinians in the same game Humanity has played for a long time now…just the players have changed. The stronger nation (Israel for those of you in doubt) is stealing land (traditional source of power) from the weaker (Palestinians). Regardless of what biblical claims fanatical Jews may have in regards to this land, it was actually captured in war, in 1967. Let's not go back to Biblical times for our claims, because Israel will no longer have American support…because…hell…we won't have a U.S.A. We would have to give some land back to the ancestors of American Indians we buchered here on our land. So forget Biblical…stick to the current.
Start off in 1948. As soon as the British are out, and even before, Jewish terrorist organizations go on a campaign of terror against Palestinians, pushing them off their land…a little like the Serbs in Kosovo. This is all WELL documented. In every Israeli military victory, there followed a period of colonization. When Israel captured the Sinai from Egypt in 1973, there were settlements in Sinai too.
So, in my humble opinion, this conflict is not a MYSTERY. It is a LAND GRAB. The building of this security fence through the west bank, that happens to encroach on private land, is again…a LAND GRAB. This has nothing to do with security. If anything, this theft of private land robs the Israeli people of security.
To bring it all back to this article, I command the brave Israeli soldier for exposing the attrocities he was forced to commit against the Palestinians. I hope he continues shedding light and opening minds.
I hope that the American people, the biggest supporters of Israel, awake to see clearly what they are supporting.
I hope that the voices of moderates in Israel, people willing to find a solution to live side by side with the Palestinians,…I hope those voices are heard loud and clear here in America. Today, sadly, there is more vocal debate of Israeli policies in the Israeli press, than here in the U.S. I hope this will one day change.
I wish all of you a peaceful 2007. Try not to hate.
God (however you choose to worship) bless.
-pf
sorry to disappoint you "This is shameful news. Jews are better than this, America is better than this…" i do not find the zionist pro israeli position shameful. ews are not bettr than anything niether is america
shame actually is more on the majority of the members of our diaspora who remain silent or pretend tht tey don't care about what Israel does. shame is on all those jews who passionately consume and live arge in america. i have respect for zionists they are passionately defending a cause with no illusion.
you are wrong about america too. there is nothing special about america. americans know what is happening. they are just happy to see the zionist israeli lobby clean up the media for them, so they don't have to feel guilty about the american sponsored atrocities in palestine. america knows about israel. but america is busy consuming and living large. as yourself why isnt anything changing in iraq? there is no taboo about talking about iraq is there? yet nobody cares to be anti war. Jews or Americans we are all barbarians now. barbarians behind our SUVs.
sorry to disappoint you "This is shameful news. Jews are better than this, America is better than this…" i do not find the zionist pro israeli position shameful. ews are not bettr than anything niether is america
shame actually is more on the majority of the members of our diaspora who remain silent or pretend tht tey don't care about what Israel does. shame is on all those jews who passionately consume and live arge in america. i have respect for zionists they are passionately defending a cause with no illusion.
you are wrong about america too. there is nothing special about america. americans know what is happening. they are just happy to see the zionist israeli lobby clean up the media for them, so they don't have to feel guilty about the american sponsored atrocities in palestine. america knows about israel. but america is busy consuming and living large. as yourself why isnt anything changing in iraq? there is no taboo about talking about iraq is there? yet nobody cares to be anti war. Jews or Americans we are all barbarians now. barbarians behind our SUVs.
This is about free speech and free access to information. The West has forcefully claimed that free speech is such an important principle for freedom loving, civilized Westerners that it cannot f.i. leave room for muslim sensitivities when it comes to blasfemic cartoons. However, there are indeed limits to free speech in the West, which we saw when Blair, Bush and many others denounced the very initiative to organize a conference for free exchange of information about what happened during the Second World War. Obviously, they were scared stiff because of what might be said, because it was out of their control to keep it "kosher". Why is that? Neither Britain nor the US are Jewish nations it just so happens that their media are very much owned and/or controlled by Zionist interests.
Now, if there cannot be free access to information which may be as critical of the Israeli government as some of its mainstream newspapers, there is something extremely wrong in the West, which often refers to the media as an independent and important power in democratic society.
Therefore, it is necessary to free the press again from tyranny. I therefore propose that Zionist interests be forced to sell themselves down to an extent where their ownership reflects the number of Jews in their respective countries (which is generous because thank God not all Jews are Zionists).
In general the rights to publish must be based on checks and balances which will ensure journalistic freedom.
Whilst this cannot be done overnight there is something that can:
AS LONG AS JEWISH SENSITIVITIES DO NOT ALLOW THE PERFORMANCE OF THE RACHEL CORRIE PLAY NO MENTION SHOULD BE ALLOWED ABOUT THE GERMAN ROLE IN THE HOLOCAUST. THE PRESENT GERMAN GENERATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT AND ITS FEELINGS ARE UNNECESSARILY HURT. IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING THAT THE HOLOCAUST "MUSEUMS" WOULD HAVE TO CLOSE UNTIL FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND EXPRESSION HAS BEEN RESTORED.
Any and all breaches of these principles should be considered hate crimes and dealt with to the full extent of the law.
These people cannot have it both ways!
How tragic. Poor, poor Israel doesn't like getting bad PR from instituting racist policies, invading & occupying other people's countries, launching constant unprovoked military attacks and slaughtering innocents by the millions? Then maybe they should stop instituting racist policies, invading & occupying other people's countries, launching constant unprovoked military attacks and slaughtering innocents by the millions.
I love it, turn over a rock and all the roaches come runing on out. It seems like all those delicate nuances about Jews vs. zionists fall away don't they? Agar, Agar, Agar, I know you want to open up those camps again. And the zionists need to sell off their media assets because, well I suppose covering that great collection of minds in Teheran was what, against the law. I'll clue you in on something most media is publicly traded. And if anything the media is on your side simply out of physical self interest. Cross the Jews and you get an agry op-ed, cross the Arabs and your dead, your family is dead, hell your pets are dead.
Golara: your a strange little guy.
Paul and Brenda:
Nobody ever said that Jews were the only victims in WW2. But only Jews and Gypsies were specific targets of extermination by the Germans. A scientifically western country, thats what makes it unique. And a hell of a lot of Polish Christians were still around in 1945, not so many Polish Jews, and what Jews that were left were driven out of the country by their friends and neighbors. The area that now encompasses Israel was under Ottoman rule until WW1 and then was a British protectorate. If you read accounts of the area before large scale Jewish immigration it was a desolate severely underpopulated, backward area and was not an independent country. Actually the Arab populatio nincreased in tandem with the Jews because Jews brought an economic dynamic that was severaly lacking. The Arabs rejected every attempt at compromise up to and including WW2 thereby condeming large numbers of Jews to death. Which was ok with them because they were pro-German anyway. The fact is after centuries of persecution, death, and destruction that is unrivaled in human history we need a safe haven, and that is the bottom line. What continually amazes me about you people is this. If your profound hopes are realized and Israel is wiped out, the jews exterminated, what do you think would be there. Look at the Arab countries, what they are, what they contribute to the worlds knowledge, advancement. What will you have gained.
Shalom Israel and Ben Steinberg:
Ben, give me one possible motive for Israel to have attacked a US naval vessel on purpose, just one. By the way, you are one twisted guy. Did you get molested by some rabbi during hebrew school
Shalom:
your an idiot
Last but not least, about the sainted Rachel Corrie, there have been multiple Rachels killed by Palestinians. I particularly remember a Rachel who survived the I suppose what some of you say is the alleged holocaust, and was blown up in Jerusalem. I suppose some Rachels are more equal than others. The ISM has taken sides and aligned themselves with the same people that desecrated the church of the nativity in Bethlehem. Being an American doesn't give you immunity when you choose a side.
I am an Indian and a Christian. I say this because it gives me the advantage of a non partisan view of confrontation between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I grew up believing that Israel was the injured party. It was only when I was 31 and met a Palestinian in London that I learnt that there were Palestinians who were driven out of their homes. A lot of self education thereafter brought me to the following conclusions.
1) there is no denial that the Jews were killed in large numbers in Europe by the Nazis and treated very badly by the Christian Church before that.
2) The establishment of Israel on Palestinian land was totally unjust and immoral and was decided by the US and european powers – all of whom have had a history of anti-semetism. Israel could have been established in the Arizona desert or in Alaska.The ingenuity of the Jews would have turned these deserts into flourishing pastures.
3)Israel forcibly displaced many Arab people from their homes and wants to prevent their return.
4) Israel has consistently tried to prevent any genuine conversation for peace.
5) I do not condemn suicide bombings because other formsof bombings (cluster bombs and landmines)also target innocent people.
6) Israel practices apartheid – its arab citizens are treated as second class citizens.
7) Israel's purpose in grabbing arab land is to keep the water resources.
What is the solution?
I would like to see an Israeli Prime minister go into Ramallah and talk directly to the Hamas because they are the elected representatives of the people.
I would like to see the illegal settlements closed down
I would like to see the wall dismantled
I would like the Jews to raise their children without giving them the impression that they are God's chosen people.
I would like Jerusalem to become an International city.
I would like the return of much of the Palestinian land to the original owners and the money that America puts into arming Israel to be used in developement of Palestinian lives.
Till then I will wear messages such as "viva Hezbollah" and "Salaam Hugo Chavez" on my T shirts.The latter is because I think succesive American Governments have not been honest. They support Israel because it will be their ally in an oil rich part of the world. There is probably some subliminal racism here too.
I am an Indian and a Christian. I say this because it gives me the advantage of a non partisan view of confrontation between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I grew up believing that Israel was the injured party. It was only when I was 31 and met a Palestinian in London that I learnt that there were Palestinians who were driven out of their homes. A lot of self education thereafter brought me to the following conclusions.
1) there is no denial that the Jews were killed in large numbers in Europe by the Nazis and treated very badly by the Christian Church before that.
2) The establishment of Israel on Palestinian land was totally unjust and immoral and was decided by the US and european powers – all of whom have had a history of anti-semetism. Israel could have been established in the Arizona desert or in Alaska.The ingenuity of the Jews would have turned these deserts into flourishing pastures.
3)Israel forcibly displaced many Arab people from their homes and wants to prevent their return.
4) Israel has consistently tried to prevent any genuine conversation for peace.
5) I do not condemn suicide bombings because other formsof bombings (cluster bombs and landmines)also target innocent people.
6) Israel practices apartheid – its arab citizens are treated as second class citizens.
7) Israel's purpose in grabbing arab land is to keep the water resources.
What is the solution?
I would like to see an Israeli Prime minister go into Ramallah and talk directly to the Hamas because they are the elected representatives of the people.
I would like to see the illegal settlements closed down
I would like to see the wall dismantled
I would like the Jews to raise their children without giving them the impression that they are God's chosen people.
I would like Jerusalem to become an International city.
I would like the return of much of the Palestinian land to the original owners and the money that America puts into arming Israel to be used in developement of Palestinian lives.
Till then I will wear messages such as "viva Hezbollah" and "Salaam Hugo Chavez" on my T shirts.The latter is because I think succesive American Governments have not been honest. They support Israel because it will be their ally in an oil rich part of the world. There is probably some subliminal racism here too.
As a Palestinian American I welcome Jewish people who can actually recognize what is going on in the territories today. The level of ignorance in this country is breathtaking. However, if this is merely a forum for Jews to feel like they have the "moral high ground" because they discuss their atrocities while the occupation continues then I'm not down with making you feel better about yourselves. The truth is pretty simple. This is merely the Crusades played out during our time. The unholy alliance of American Christian Evangicals and the Israelis. The evangicals, who want to press the fast forward button to Armageddon and the Israelis, who are along for the ride since the Evangicals believe the state must exist before Jesus returns. There will never be a two state solution because as long as Israel is in a position of power in terms of negotiations, it will never offer a comprehensive peace that is just. Face it the thought of giving up land that you stole fair and square is not on the agenda. But the Palestinians will never relinquish their inalienable rights. So endless war it will be until the Palestinians become stronger and are in a position themselves to make demands. In the end I envision Palestinains being offered full citizenship in Israel changing the dynamics and demographics of the state of Israel forever, much like South Africa, that other apartheid state that had the full support of the American Government. I also envision this process will probably take place over the next 30-40 years when the Palestinian population will be soaring and Jewish emigration will be at an all time low. The whole scenario is a good lesson to us all. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. God has taught us this lesson with the Jews being the prime example of it. They have come full circle, from being the slaves and oppressed to being the oppressor. Ironic, aint it?
Bill Pearlman, thanks for reading my piece and offering your critique. I agree, it's very demeaning to be treated so disdainfully by those arrogant sabras and only human to try, somehow, to demonstrate how staunchly pro-Israel one is; hoping to get, at least a tiny nod of recognition. Keep up the good work, but if at first you don't succeed …
The First Congregational Church of Old Lyme CT also invited Yehuda Shaul to speak in December. He was one of 4 Jewish and/or Israelis to speak critically of the Occupation and general treatment of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories.Needless to say that our efforts were criticized for being "too one sided" as well as "anti-Semetic" even though the only non-Jewish member of the panel was a Roman Catholic priest. I personally asked Shaul about US Iraq War veterans who may have approached him during his North American speaking tour with similar stories of purposeful brutality and abuse. It did not come as a huge surprise when he answered yes, planning to courageously enlarge this forum in the not so distant future
Oh, and Phil, I know you thank that Hamas, Hezbollah, and islamic Jihad are the good guys here but enlighten me, what country was occupied here. Before 1948 when you said Palestinaisn you were referring to Jews. what millions have been slaughterd. And if your a product of the American educational system then we really are in big trouble. Or more likely your just a scumbag who hasn't gotten past comic books. I'd say retared but thats an insult to retared people everywhere.
The First Congregational Church of Old Lyme CT also invited Yehuda Shaul to speak in December. He was one of 4 Jewish and/or Israelis to speak critically of the Occupation and general treatment of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories.Needless to say that our efforts were criticized for being "too one sided" as well as "anti-Semetic" even though the only non-Jewish member of the panel was a Roman Catholic priest. I personally asked Shaul about US Iraq War veterans who may have approached him during his North American speaking tour with similar stories of purposeful brutality and abuse. It did not come as a huge surprise when he answered yes, planning to courageously enlarge this forum in the not so distant future
Oh and Bill, honestly, I know you're a product of the American education system but could I offer you some spelling and English lessons before it's too late?
wafic- at the same time, muslims aren't exactly bending over backwards to express their point of view on these issues. Americans listen to the jewish view because it is the only one being offered to them.
the only islamic activism out there is terrorism. You can't expect people to go to the library and becomes middle east studies experts.
The entire approach is false. I'm definitely pro-Israel. But I'm against everlasting war. And the way Israel acts will pave the way for ongoing violence. Everyone in favour of Israel, everyone interested in the prospect that there will still be an israeli state in 1000 years, must pressure Israel to decide for a settlement of all claims with its neighbours. Germany and France have fought wars for 1000 years, with millions of casualties – until Adenauer and deGaulle decided to finish the evil game and to settle all the claims peacefully.
It is false to portray the US policy options towards Israel as either support unquestioned – or drop. There is a third option of critical and balanced support, which deserves attention. We need to pressure Israel as the strongest power in the region to abandon all acts of violence and to seriously consider the Arabs' fears.