This morning I woke up with a fresh understanding of the dual-loyalty issues I have been chewing away at in this blog.
It is actually staggering when you think about it, that a leading professor of political philosophy–Michael Walzer–can speak proudly of our "anomalous" Jewish citizenship, involving membership in one nation that spans two countries, the U.S. and Israel, to a standing-room-only crowd at the Center for Jewish History, with the editor Martin Peretz at his side, and god knows how many leading intellectuals in the crowd– staggering that he can offer this definition and that no one challenges him about the issue of dual loyalty. "Isn’t the Jewish identity you’re celebrating a recipe for legitimate accusations of dual loyalty?" Simply staggering. Especially when you consider that the U.S. unleashed a horrifying bloodbath in Iraq, in part because some of the policymakers shared a similar understanding to Walzer of the congruence of American and Israeli nationalities. And at Walzer’s speech, Iraq is not mentioned at all. Nor the horrifying conditions of the Palestinians.
I speak here as a member of the Jewish community. No, I’m not religious, as Walzer is. I can’t read Hebrew, I’m assimilating, etc etc. It doesn’t matter. I’m a Jew, and my challenge to my Jewish community has a long pedigree. 100 years ago, many leading American Jews were opposed to Zionism on just these grounds, that it would create a conflict between American citizenship and some new binational citizenship, this anomalous citizenship Walzer so extolled. Back then, there was criticism, ultimately stifled. Today there is almost none. But has Walzer answered my political challenge? Has Peretz answered John Judis’s challenge? This is an identity crisis whose time has come.
One other point. The Hillel House at Columbia has a cafeteria called Nana, with a giant photographic mural of the Israeli desert along one wall and the slogan, "A Taste of Home." The cafeteria is in the Arthur H. and Iphigene Sulzberger Lounge. That German-Jewish couple was anti-Zionist for the reason that I am, that our home is the United States, not Israel. Consider how their legacy has been insulted. Again, I say, let the soul-searching begin…
Related posts:
- Michael Oren is about to become single loyalty. Before he was just dual
- Michael Oren is about to become single loyalty. Before he was just dual
- Another Achievement of the AJC: ‘The New Republic’ Joins Me on Dual Loyalty Issue
- Why I Talk About Dual Loyalty
- Assimilation v. Dual Loyalty in American Jewish Identity
{ 50 comments }
You are anti-Zionist because your home is in the US?
I don't get the logic of that.
The significance of being part of the Jewish community is not a contradiction with being a citizen of any state.
The concept of "dual-loyalty" is false. Irish Americans are loyal to Ireland, as they are citizens of the US.
Palestinian Americans are loyal to Palestine, as they are simultaneously citizens of the US.
What does "loyalty" mean? Are you truly "loyal" to the US, in all the meanings that some judge of you could derive from that term?
Excellent post.
Made me think of a certain synagogue along the Henry Hudson Parkway in the Bronx with a sign out front reading, "We stand with the State of Israel." I pass it all the time. Each time I do, I interpret it as a gigantic middle-finger extended towards me and every other American driving by. A hearty "fuck you" to the country that knocked out Saddam in order to appease Likud fanatics in the DoD. It is a supreme example of Zionist chutzpah, thrust right in our faces as we drive to and from Manhattan. Dual loyalty? Rubbish. Their only loyalty lies with Olmert, Likud, the IDF and the guy who bulldozed Rachel Corrie.
As for Witty's comment, I'm an Irish American and couldn't give a rat's ass about Ireland. You don't know what you're talking about.
Sean,
There are Jews that similarly couldn't give a rats ass for Israel.
If you love classical music, jazz, AND rock n roll, you are not inhuman, you are MORE human.
Israel is a mixed bag, as ANYONE that has any earnest involvement with Israel knows well.
Because it is mixed, reform is the most appropriate political approach relative to Israel.
Urging reform will be respected. Urging condemnation will be rejected as it should.
How does the complaint about "dual-loyalty" transform anything?
What good does it do?
Besides the dual-loyalty issue there is a more important point to Walzer's endorsement of the 'anomaly of Jewish identity'. ( I watched the videotape of his speech.)
Michael Walzer endorsed the inbuild anti-Goyimism of the Jewish identity definition. That's its specific and dangerous anomaly. It's responsible for anti-Jewish feelings. And NOT the other way round: first anti-Semitism and as a reaction the anti-Goyimism.
Newton's law "to every action there is a reaction" applies here. When the Jews came into being as a 'holy, chosen people', an exclusive 'people apart', that was the original anomaly – the rest is reaction.
Immanuel Kant pointed that out in 1793 in his Philosophy of Religion. And I have to add: Kant had quite a following among the German Jews of the enlightenment.
____
Walzer failed to name another important Jewish anomaly: The Jews are the only religious group that claims God assigned them a certain territory on this planet.
There are MANY groups that regard themselves as special and distinct, and that regard a certain place as their home.
Its a good thing in the world, even if its not your chosen association.
Call a place home
___________________
Okay, but the German-Jewish philosopher Martin Buber sees it this way: "The Land of Israel was created first, the rest of the world later on."
When the Jews conquered their land (and on the way blotted out the Amalek), that was unlike any other people (who do not deny having conquered a territory) – the Jews were just following God's commandment. That's the way Buber sees it and the settlers in Judea and Samaria.
I also find it ironic that Michael Walzer is being vilified. Today, I read a fundraising letter he wrote for Peace Now, urging social justice within Israel (color-blind), and active removal of settlements on the Palestinian side of the green line.
And, to further the irony, this vilification is being presented in the name of preserving freedom of expression for dissenting perspective.
You're 'loyalty' crap sound like McCarthyism.
Are you loyal to George Bush and/or to the US Government? Or do you have a special definition of loyalty to America?
What have you ever done for America? You didn't serve in the Army, did you? What have you ever done for America you hypocritical piece of shit?
These Jews that you have such a rage/jealousy with have paid more in taxes to America than a failed journalist/writer like you will ever pay. That's loyalty- picking up that pen and writing a big fat check to Uncle Sam.
This dual-loyal Jew, no, make that loyal only to Israel, because America is a fuckin' joke, served for as combat medic in the US Army (91-A) and pays way more in taxes- just off of dividend income- than you will ever pay.
You are a lazy, whining scumbag, Weiss.
You haven't done a single thing for America except whine about how much you love it.
I don't have a problem with dual-loyalty – I have a problem with the support of deceit, atrocities, disregard for international laws and war crimes to further one's notion of "loyalty". I don't have a problem with patriotism, whether one is patriotic towards America or Israel. I have a problem with the DEFINITION of that particular patriotism. After all, the Nazis considered themselves true patriots to the German cause. It is not "my country right or wrong", but what's right to be kept right and what's wrong to be made right. How can anyone "loyal" to one's country support neo-fascism, contravention of laws, war crimes, torture, aggression, occupation and colonization??? In the end, these red-blooded bigots are not faithful to their country, they are faithful to the supremacist ideology they subscribe to, and it is the ideology they wish to impose on the rest of the world. History will be their judge.
Sounds like you have a big problem with America, Qwerty.
It's too bad you got stuck with such a shitty place to live.
I think if the America-Israel 'shared values' talk were actually true, Phil would probably have no problem with dual Jewish-American loyalty. But unfortunately this talk has little basis in facts and is mainly propaganda.
There is a false dichotomy here, supporting Israel doesn't mean supporting its government or policies, but supporting the state as a viable entity. There are those who believe that Israel HAS to make peace with its neighbors, negotiate, give up land for peace and work through the UN via international laws and treaties, and then there are those who hate the Arabs and Muslims, feel Israel should completely annex Palestine, relegating the Palestinians to eternal poverty, wage wars of aggression, establish military hegemony over the entire region, i.e. "to secure the Realm" in neo-con parlance. The latter is the true definition of a rogue state on the path of catastrophic destruction and neo-fascism, the likes of which we are witnessing in Iraq. Peace or perpetual war for "lebensraum", that was the choice the Germans faced in the 1930s, and their false sense of "loyalty" to the siren call of the Nazis for a Greater Germany led them down the path that brought about global destruction, mass slaughter and misery.
qqqq, it's people like you that shit in it, ya know?
The word "loyal" is simply not appropriate when discussing those who feel an equal attachment to the U.S. and the State of Israel. It is unfortunate that the word was ever appropriated for this use because it only confuses the issue. I suggest a more precise word to use when describing such equal attachment is the word "bullshit," the perfect word for any claim that has no basis in reality.
(That there is no better word for this particular claim is because those who bequeathed to us our language, our ancestors, weren't big on coining words for feelings or experiences not known to exist in nature.)
Here are my suggestions for using the new word:
If you are a Jew living in America who puts Israel first, then you should describe yourself as a "Jew who is a Bullshit American." You see, you cannot be a real American unless you put America and its best interests first and foremost. Note: Israel, like every nation, is best served by those within.
If you are a Jew living in Israel who puts America first, then you should describe yourself as a "Jew who is a Bullshit Israeli." You see, you cannot be a real Israeli unless you put Israel and its best interests first and foremost. Note: America, like every nation, is best served by those within.
If you are a Jew who believes he can love and support America and Israel equally, then, no matter where you live, you should seek therapy for treatment of delusions. Note: You, like every citizen, is best served by avoiding bullshit.
When I give it a second thought, I now think, you can't have a dual America-Israel loyalty.
The thing that enraged Dershowitz most about the Mearsheimer/Walt paper was their contention that Isarel contradicted core American values. They meant the makeup of Israel not some current policy.
They had a point. The concept of the American Bill of Rights and the Israeli concept embodied in their 'Law of Return' are philosophically at opposing ends of an ideological spectrum. One is based on the universal value of 'all men are created equal' the other on the religious-tribal descent of a people that believes to be created unequal.
I wonder how the Israel-lobby in America managed to blur the above distinction.
BWD, I hope that every product that you own was made in "GOD WE TRUST" America and contain only American-made components otherwise you are a BULLSHIT AMERICAN.
I hope you support the troops and the commander in Chief otherwise you're a BULLSHIT AMERICAN.
I hope you go to Church on the National Holidays of Christmas and Easter otherwise, you're a BULLSHIT AMERICAN.
Thank GOD for real Americans like you. We need more real Americans and fewer whining pussies like Phil Weiss.
Shut the fuck up you stupid Kraut, Bloemker. It's too bad your grandfather wasn't in Dresden.
To GI Joe
My grandfather died in WWI – is that fair enough?
And GI Joe – maybe you should go back to school and study the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence.
The 'GI Joe' Elvis Presley who was stationed just 10 miles north of Frankfurt (where I live) got along fine in Germany. Well, that were the good old days of the Cold War when every GI Joe sided with the Germans (and John F. Kennedy didn't want the Israelis to have nuclear weapons).
WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. Joseph Lieberman said Sunday the United States should consider a military strike against Iran because of Tehran's involvement in Iraq.
Johnny Cash,
I want America to be the best it can be. America cannot be reduced to catchy slogans, buying habits, presidential decisions, or religion. America is a sovereign nation, one born of a belief in liberty and justice, built upon doctrines that give possibility to such beliefs, and defended by the blood and sacrifice of patriots.
Isn't it funny that a fierce, patriotic belief in America is so often derided by those who admire, no, worship might be the more accurate description, the fierce patriots who defend the soil of Israel?
"I want America to be the best it can be" – so do I.
I have always defended America against vulgar left-wing European stereotypes.
Liberty and justice? Hardy har har
Who nuked 220,000 civilians in Japan?
Tortures people in prisons in Abu Gharab and Guantanamo Bay?
Had segregation 40 years ago and slavery 150 Years?
Is a class society where the rich live like kings while 50 million poor people have no health care.
I hope you have a American Flag on your SUV and McMansion- if not you're another BULLSHIT AMERICAN
Maybe your AMERICA IS BULLSHIT?
This KKK has a problem explaining why people still want to immigrate to America.
The same problem 'GI Joe' has to explain why Russian Jews prefer to immigrate to Germany than to Israel.
Klaus, what about your father? I would like to locate you concerning generation. What year is your father born.
Kraut de Cologne
"I would like to locate you concerning generation."
Why, Leander?
Why not?
Well basically to find out if you are older or younger than me.
KKK,
Were your reading comprehension as well developed as is your keen eye for the most blatant errors of our history, you might have noticed that what I wrote was that America was "built upon doctrines that give possibility to such beliefs" (as liberty and justice). If perfection in these matters is your benchmark, then you exist in a fictional world that is beyond the reach of intelligent discourse. The best that any government formed by mere humans can do is to be built on the promise to try to do better.
Yes, the U.S. did nuke Japanese citizens — the same U.S. that has opened its borders to millions of the freedom-seeking immigrants. Yes, inexcusable errors were made in America's military prisons — the same America that has led the way in its efforts to protect its citizens from the abuses of government. Yes, slavery and discrimination did stain this country's history — the same country in which the momemtum to end slavery came from within despite the widespread conviction that blacks were inferior. True, there are millions in America without health insurance — the same America that guarantees medical attention in a public hospital to anyone in need.
Like your thought processes, this country is imperfect. It is also an amazing work in progress; something your mind certainly isn't.
Fight Night!
http://www.ameinu.net/action/events.php
I see Phil will be participating in a discussion about the lobby on June 21. With him is Dan Fleshler, whom old-timers at this site will remember as ToughDove, that doughty man of the Left. (That is to say, the Tribalist Left.)
It appears to be one of these Jews-only klatches — I assume ToughDove only agreed to participate under the condition that he would not have to speak with Gentiles. But I personally find it disappointing that Phil is collaborating with this kind of thing. This is not a "Jewish" subject.
The title, "How to Talk Candidly About Israel," reveals the problem. Because of course this is not really the subject at all: Jews know perfectly well how to talk about Israel and do it interminably. What they really meant to say, but don't have the courage to admit, is "How to Talk About Israel in front of the Gentiles".
When you start out on a false note like this, it doesn't bode well for the endeavor.
sorry, trouvere, Troubadour, I mistook you for Klaus.
David: Webcast would be fine.
LeaNder
Since you have such a keen interest in my father, I can tell you that he was driving trucks in Italy during WWII.
If this information helps you to make up your mind about dual loyalty, you are welcome.
And BTW, my aunt emigrated to America and lived in Indianapolis.
What pathetic rhetoric:
"built upon doctrines that give possibility to such beliefs"
From the recent Avrum Burg interview:
"Of the three identities that form me — human, Jewish and Israeli — I feel that the Israeli element deprives the other two."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/868385.html
Richard Witty's claim that the dual loyalty of Jews (really ethnic Ashkenazi Americans) is comparable to the feelings of Irish Americans or those of Palestinians is false.
Irish Americans typically do not equate the interests of the Republic of Ireland with those of the USA. An Irish American serving in the US government that manipulated US policy to serve Israeli interests (or the interests of the Irish people) to the detriment of the USA would at the very least be accused of treason.
Likewise no Palestinian American I know equates the interests of the PA and those of the USA nor have Palestinians that have served in the US or Jordanian government subordinated US or Jordanian interests to those of the Palestinian people.
Because extremist Zionist groups like the David Project use accusations of disloyalty and treason against Arab and Muslim Americans that are completely loyal patriotic Americans whether Jewish or non-Jewish have an obligation to open up the discussion of the denaturalization of ethnic Ashkenazi Americans whose primary national loyalaties do not lie with the USA.
Note that most Arabs and Muslims that immigrate to the USA are trying to get away from their governments not serve them — I have never seen any US mosque that flies a foreign flag.
Also note that Arab and Muslim American parents do not encourage their children to do military service in a foreign country.
There is some similarity among Jews, Kashmiris, and Irish in terms of willingness to serve foreign terrorist groups in a cause. (After working in the Occupied Territories for 10 years I consider the IDF a terrorist organization far more dastardly than than the IRA or the Lashke-i-toyba.) But the USA has never treated IDF service as a US crime and has tended to overlook American Irish support of the IRA. I am baffled at the equation of Kashmiri resistance to terrorism on the USA. We Americans don't have a dog in the Kashmir dog race.
Hello Philip and all,
Just picked this blog up from PWeiss;s article in the "Am Conserv." Excellent discussion
The Israel Lobby in the US is just that: a very effective, rich lobby. It adds to anti-Semitism *because* it is so rich and powerful. Also it highlights a particular weakness of US politics–its increasing corruption and American outsourcing of policy to key interest groups.
*Energy policy to the oil lobby (changing now to Big Agriculture)
*Safety in schools to the gun lobby
*Middle East foreign policy to the Israel lobby.
Hence this discussion should not be in the fraught area of "dual" loyalties/anti Semitism but in the larger sphere of government corruption and the role of contributions in setting policy. The rightwing American Jew-bellicose evangelical-
rightwing Israeli
nexus is an unholy Trinity of
immense power and far reaching influence. It is also detrimental to the longterm interests of the United States but…
In the long term we are all dead.
Klaus: Since you have such a keen interest in my father, I can tell you that he was driving trucks in Italy during WWII.
LeaNder: Not so many Krauts that show up in discussions of this topic. I am more interested in you than in your father. But in a way our parents views shape ours. And the question was triggered by your comment about your grandpa.
Basically I guess, I asked myself, why mention your grandpa and WWI and not your father and WWII? So we might be close to the same age and you are born not too long after 1945.
My father was among the "Kanonenfutter" canon fodder fed into the machine in 1944 at the age of 17.
Klaus: If this information helps you to make up your mind about dual loyalty, you are welcome.
LeaNder: I can't see how this topic can be discussed by a German without considering the input from Hitler and the Nazis.
And considering the comments about fighting for "one's country", we saw that in connection with the Balkans over here too, didn't we?
Good point Leander. In my home town of Chicago there was fighting in the streets between Serbian-Americans and Croat-Americans during the breakup of Yugoslavia, and there was plenty of lobbying efforts by both groups to influence US foreign policy decisions. See http://www.freeserbia.net/Documents/Lobby.html for one sides complaints about the other's lobbying efforts.
Mary Shelley is correct in her analysis of the corrosive effects of lobbies in Washington. What is sad, pathetic, and hateful is the singluar focus on Jewish and non-Jewish advocate groups for Israel-American relations. 2-bit hacks like Martillo are white shoe racists who would have felt right at home in Germany in the late 1930s. They posion whatever forum they grace with their racism.
You mean two bit hacks like Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami
He uses many different names on the internet, but this appears to be his full name.
Smart bigot.
Question for David: Seems I can't use basic HTML for links here. What do I use instead?
To Observer: The Albanian lobby does not seem to be so ineffective either???
But I have to admit that I do not like the mindset that wants to nuke a whole series of ME countries either; with the accompanying propaganda/strategic perception management with its constantly expanded line of so-called Hitler reincarnations. I doubt we see all the interests in play while Israels interest are rather obvious.
A perfect scapegoat scenario.
The Arab Lobby
The Arab lobby in the United States is at least as old, perhaps older than the Israeli lobby. It is composed of what I.L. Kenen called the petro-diplomatic complex consisting of the oil industry, missionaries, and diplomats. According to Kenen, there was no need for a formal Arab lobby because the petro-diplomatic complex did the Arabs' work for them.
One of the earliest activities of the petro-diplomatic complex began in 1951 when King Saud of Saudi Arabia asked U.S. diplomats to finance a pro-Arab lobby to counter the American Zionist Committee for Public Affairs (later the American Israel Public Affairs Committee -AIPAC). The Arab lobby became an official, active, and visible spokesman for the Arab cause in the wake of the oil embargo. "The day of the Arab-American is here," boasted National Association of Arab-Americans (NAAA) founder Richard Shadyac, "the reason is oil."
From the beginning, the Arab lobby has faced not only a disadvantage in electoral politics but also in organization. There are several politically oriented groups, but many of these are one man operations with little financial or popular support. Americans for Justice in the Middle East was formed by a group of Americans at the American University in Beirut after the 1967 war to combat "Zionism's virulent thirty-year campaign of hate and vindictiveness." Two anti-Zionist Jews are also active supporters of the Arab lobby. Elmer Berger runs American Jewish Alternatives to Zionism and Alfred Lilienthal publishes his own newsletter Middle East Perspectives.
There are a number of larger and more representative groups, including the aforementioned NAAA and ADC, the Middle East Research and Information Project; the Middle East Affairs Council, Americans for Near East Refugee Aid, the Arab American Institute and the American Palestine Committee. Typically, these organizations have boards of directors composed of prominent retired government officials. Board members have included former Ambassador to Jordan, L. Dean Brown, Herman Eilts, former Ambassador to Syria and Egypt; Parker T. Hart, former Ambassador to Saudi Arabia and several others.
The formal Arab lobby is the National Association of Arab-Americans (NAAA), a registered domestic lobby founded in 1972 by Richard Shadyac. The NAAA was consciously patterned after its counterpart, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Shadyac believed the power and wealth of the Arab countries stemming from their oil reserves, would allow the Arab lobby to take advantage of the political process in the same way the Jews have been thought to. Like AIPAC, the NAAA makes its case on the basis of U.S. national interests, arguing a pro-Israel policy harms those interests. Aid to Israel is criticized as a waste of taxpayers' money, and the potential benefits of a closer relationship with the Arab states is emphasized.
The highlight of the NAAA's early efforts was a meeting between President Ford and twelve NAAA officials in 1975. Since then, the NAAA has participated in meetings with each president and obtained access to top government officials. In 1977, for example, after Sadat's historic visit to Jerusalem, the Arab lobby made its displeasure over United States support for the initiative known to President Carter, who wrote in his diary: "They [Arab-Americans] have given all the staff, Brzezinski, Warren Christopher, and others, a hard time. Although the lobby's concerns began to reach the highest levels of government, there were no perceptible changes in United States policy."
It is not only Arab-Americans who have made the lobby's case; the Arab lobby, like the Israeli lobby, has successfully built coalitions with other interest groups. As noted earlier, the pedro-diplomatic complex was the lobby until 1972, when the NAAA was formed. Even today, arguably, it is the most influential component of the lobby. Nevertheless, most of the nation's major corporations have not supported the Arab lobby. In fact, prior to the AWACS sale, oil companies were about the only corporations willing to openly identify with Arab interests. The reason is that most corporations prefer to stay out of foreign policy debates; moreover, corporations may feel constrained by the implicit threat of some form of retaliation by the Israeli lobby.
The major oil companies feel no such constraints. Exxon, Standard Oil of California (SoCal), Mobil, and Texaco have long sought to manipulate public opinion and foreign policy on the Middle East. These companies as a group comprise the Arabian American Oil Company (ARAMCO). Participation in the public relations campaign amounted to the price of doing business in the oil-producing nations.
The campaign began after the 1967 War when ARAMCO established a fund to help present the Arab side of the conflict. In May 1970, ARAMCO representatives met with Assistant Secretary of State Joseph Sisco and warned him American military sales to Israel would hurt U.S.-Arab relations and jeopardize U.S. oil supplies. The former chairman of ARAMCO testified before Congress that the United States' pro-Israel policies were harming U.S. business interests. In 1972, at Kuwait's urging, Gulf Oil joined the campaign, providing $50,000 to create a public relations firm to promote the Arab side.
The campaign took on greater urgency in 1973 after Frank Jungers, then Chairman of the Board of ARAMCO, met with Saudi King Faisal, and was pressured to take a more active role in creating a sympathetic attitude toward the Arab nations. In June, a month after the Jungers meeting, Mobil published its first advertisement/editorial in the New York Times. In July, SoCal's chairman sent out a letter to the company's 40,000 employees and 262,000 stockholders asking them to pressure Washington to support "the aspirations of the Arab people." The chairman of Texaco called for a reassessment of U.S. Middle East policy. When the October 1973 War broke out, the chairmen of the ARAMCO partners sent a memorandum to the White House warning against increasing military aid to Israel. Since 1973, ARAMCO has maintained its public relations campaign and become involved in occasional legislative fights, such as the AWACS sale, but, on the whole, the campaign has had no observable impact on U.S. policy.
Other companies outside the oil industry are involved in the Arab lobby, the most well-known being the international engineering firm Bechtel, but the Arab and Israeli lobbies have had virtually no confrontations since the AWACS fight in 1981, in part because the Israeli lobby hasn't opposed any major arms sales or other economic investments in the region that threatened U.S. corporate interests.
A relatively ignored component of the "Arab lobby" is found among the Christian community, most notably, the National Council of Churches (NCC). The NCC is composed of thirty-two Protestant denominations, including virtually all major church bodies. The Council has taken consistently anti-Israel stands, and its 1980 policy statement on the Middle East called for the creation of a PLO state. Besides passing anti-Israel resolutions, the NCC puts on seminars, radio shows, and conferences. From 1972 to 1977, it published the ARAMCO financed SWASIA (Southwest Asia) newsletter. When SWASIA ceased publication, the NCC established an Islamic desk to "enable American Christians to understand Arab Christian and Muslim attitudes." The relationship between the NCC and other Arab lobby organizations is primarily informal, with NCC leaders serving on many of their boards.
LeaNder – "the input of Hitler and the Nazis" on a German mind.
___________________________
When I grew up after WWII there was next to no input of the kind – at least on my mind. I remember my mother once ridiculing the Nazis and my father kept quiet. I had no interest in the matter. We high school boys listened to Rock 'n' Roll and Jazz. My aunt sent me a Lewi's, a copy of Life magazine and an American football. We didn't know how to play with it since it didn't go straight when we kicked it. My much older sister married a Frenchman and I often went there. My frends and me then listened to French chansons and became Franco-phile. During my university days I again turned to America reading mostly American Sociologists and copying American forms of student protest, sit-ins, tech-ins etc. Most of my fellow students turned to Marxism and blamed Capitalism for Hitler's rise to power. This reasoning never convinced me. I could go on … but it might get boring.
Re: lobbies
Yes, there are many other political lobbies but none so powerful as the Israel lobby. And none that have done so much towards steering the US into a superfluous war (Iraq) in the Middle East. And none so furious against criticizing Israeli policy in the occupied territories, or indeed any criticism. Criticism of Israel is mostly suppressed in the US. As I wrote earlier the American rightwing Jewish-bellicose Evangelical-rightwing Israeli militarist nexus is an unholy Trinity & greatly damaging to the interests of the US nation as a whole. The Irish-American, Arab, Armenian, Polish, Ukrainian et al are simply not comparable.
So the problem with the Israel lobby is: it has been super-successful! Maybe it will serve as a tipping point & the country will move *against* the transfer of power from elected pols. to special interest groups.
Don't hold your breathe…
"Question for David: Seems I can't use basic HTML for links here. What do I use instead?"
LeaNder
Anonymous answer: copy and paste the link.
OK "input from Hitler" was a bit of a shorthand.
Let me reformulate. Can we talk about double loyalty or the state-within-the-state without the Nazi ideology creeping into vicinal parts of our gray matter? And how do we handle this?
Basically the problem I have is, we do not have many lobbies with such a rich mythical lore driving our associative chains equally powerfully. [apart from: Jesuits, Masons, Iliuminati ..] No other "lobby" has been so solidly fitted into the older conspiracy lore as the Jewish.
Besides: It feels the core of what is discussed under the header of double loyalty is a perfectly private affair [...]. Does the core problem not have to do more with a specific alignment, a certain vanishing point towards which our democracies seem to be moving? But that is a much less adventurous story.
*The state is hysterical in nature*, who said so? Was it Giorgio Agamben? Isn't it hysterics par excellence what we are watching?
*****************************************
But back to Germany – Reeducation? Education would have been fine enough for me. Fact is: there was a huge cloak of silence. When was your high school exam and were? Frankfurt? Mine was in 1970 in Neustadt, Black Forest, and I revolted when it was more and more obvious we would never move on to the Nazi reign in our history courses.
I find it interesting in your short note that your father does not speak. I think my father and me managed to not speak for two years during high school years apart from indirectly or over third parties at dinner table.
(Re)education in Germany
___________________________
I finished high school in 1965 in Bielefeld/Westfalia. I go along with you concerning history courses – but I didn't realize, something was missing.
In the German course, we had to choose an auther for the Abitur (hight school diploma – for our American friends). I took Franz Kafka. It was never mentioned that he was from a Jewish family. The Nazis had vanished from history and the Jews from literature. But I wasn't aware of either.
As far as my father is concerned, years after he had died, my mother said in a passing, matter of factly way: "dad was in the party when we got married" ('party' of course meaning the NSDAP).
I had no interest at the time when he was alive in either WWII or the Nazis and never cared to ask.
Do you have a Jewish (or Nazi?) background that your father didn't talk about?
Bravo.The dual loyalty problem goes a long way back in Jewish history, I believe. It is going to depend upon Jews like yourself to force a resolution of this issue.
I believe that one possible source of this problem may lie in the uncertain fate of "God." I mean is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to whom the Jews testify, for all mankind or is it just for Jews? The issue of "God" is the issue of universality or tribalism – Logos or Ethnos.
I am praying for you – God bless you.
(Re)Education in Germany cont.
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There was one incident I had forgotten about but an old classmate of mine mentioned it a couple of years ago.
It was in 7th grade. A student had chalked a swastika on a sports shirt and put it up on the blackboard. Our Latin teacher entered, saw this, got furious, tore it down and shouted: "millions of people died under this sign." At the time we didn't really know what the swastika meant.
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