Hurray for democracy. The Dallas Morning News’ editorial board has also given a forum to John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt (and apparently made up for this by reprinting Richard Cohen‘s Hatikvah-humming attack on the pair from the Washington Post of a week earlier).
The interview is marked by Mearsheimer’s best quality: his frankness about his thought process in a political context:
What’s going on here is that there is a
conventional wisdom in the United States about the state of Israel that we
are challenging. And that conventional wisdom tends to portray Israel in the
most positive light. And that’s due in good part to the fact that the
[pro-Israel] lobby works very hard to shape public discourse about Israel.. You know, and everybody who works for a major newspaper in this
country knows, that if you write articles critical of Israel, or talk about
the U.S.-Israeli relationship in a critical way, you’ll feel a tremendous
amount of heat from pro-Israel readers. As a consequence of this, we have a
discourse in this country that’s out of sync with No. 1, the history of
Israel, and No. 2, what’s going on in the Middle East today. We don’t love Israel. It’s not that we dislike Israel. Our argument in
the book is simply that Israel should be treated like a normal country.
But bad people have appropriated your work for their own malicious
ends. Do you have any moral responsibility for this?
What our critics are saying is we can’t talk about
this lobby because it might fuel anti-Semitism. That’s a fallacious
argument. It’s very important in the United States that we be able to talk
seriously about the principal actors that shape American foreign policy,
especially in the Middle East, because if you look at the Middle East today,
it’s very clear that the United States is in serious trouble. And we believe
that one of the reasons we’re in serious trouble – I underline "one of the
reasons" – is because of the efforts of the lobby… I do believe
there are anti-Semites in the United States, and there are anti-Semites in
Europe. Steve and I go to great lengths to condemn them in the book and to
condemn them every time we speak publicly…But I don’t believe this is the 1930s, and there’s imminent danger of a
massive increase in anti-Semitism. And to be perfectly frank, if I did
believe that were the case, I don’t believe I would have agreed to write the
book.
About Richard Cohen: Tuesday's NPR interview with M&W on KPCC in Los Angeles had Cohen as "balance." The interview was typical NPR anodyne pablum, but Cohen was quite revealing of his personal perspective. He accuses the book of lacking an emotional attachment to Israel.
link to scpr.org
/>
(Scroll down to Tuesday, Sept. 18.)
Note the questionnaire’s childish statement about how “bad people” people have appropriated Walt/Mersheimer’s anti-Zionist work for their own ends, as if it isn’t “bad people” who have appropriated Zionism for their own evil ends.
A new field survey just came out confirming the number of over 1 million Iraqi deaths as a consequence of the war for imperialism and Zionism.
——————————————————————————
Richard Cohen's emotionalism reminded me of another American journalist. Thomas Friedman (Middle East correspondent and bureau chief of our country's newspaper of record from 1981 to 1988 and today its foreign affairs Op-Ed page editor) has said:
"Israel was central to my life as it was to all my friends. A lot of us went to Israel together. I lived on a kibbutz all three summers of high school. Today I'm probably the only one of my friends who is still emotionally involved in Israel."
"But I don't believe this is the 1930s, and there's imminent danger of a massive increase in anti-Semitism. And to be perfectly frank, if I did believe that were the case, I don't believe I would have agreed to write the book. "
In London and Paris, anti-semitism is a problem. In my mother-in-law's neighborhood of London, elderly Jewish people are targeted. The response to the beatings have been mixed. Some papers have declared, "well if they didn't support Zionism, they wouldn't be a target".
Others have condemned the assaults as the efforts of organized thugs.
The key statement is "how did we get into this mess?"
Which mess? Israel/Palestine, Iraq, posturing re: Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, China, Russia. The state of the economy, present and future?
Which mess?
You don't get out of a mess by ranting. You get out of a mess by analyzing, rebuilding, and not from the set of wishes but from a menu of possibles, hopefully ones that don't ignore the parties involved.
Intellectually, generalization is a problem. We're kept dumb by it, and then we do ignorant and at best negligent things.
The word "ignorance" describes an absence of knowledge, relevant knowledge. Its not a substantive position that one takes. "I am an ignorantist" (homage to the "know nothings" that periodically actually called themselves that).
It also implies a selective approach to knowledge. I choose what to ignore. I consciously remain ignorant as to their sensitivity (whomever their is, not ours, theirs).
The quote is relevant to Mearsheimer's conscience. As a published product, it is still a valid object of criticism, and if the criticism has merit, intelligent people will form their opinions accordingly.
If the result of the article, interviews, and book were to be that those that love Israel (warts and all) were forced to shut up, that would be a further suppression of free thought, a forced one, rather than a liberation of it.
The tone of ignorant confrontation is normalized by inflammatory and demeaning talk radio, confrontational and simplistic "news" shows, and those undertaking political dirty tricks.
It is in the atmosphere, and crosses political positions.
Like a bird that flies from Africa to Europe, and couldn't possibly know that it traveled from the home of colonized to colonizer.
Re RW's commitment to those 'that love Israel (warts and all)'.
If this mob were doing something about the warts then M&W's book would not have appeared.
Those that love Irael (warts and all) ARE the problem.
"Like a bird that flies from Africa to Europe, and couldn't possibly know that it traveled from the home of colonized to colonizer."
Jumping from an arab israeli roof into a jewish roof in Jerusalem is enough for the bird to experience the joys of travelling from the home of colonized to colonizer.
"In London and Paris, anti-semitism is a problem. In my mother-in-law's neighborhood of London, elderly Jewish people are targeted. The response to the beatings have been mixed. Some papers have declared, "well if they didn't support Zionism, they wouldn't be a target".
Bollocks. What are you, the ADL propaganda representative? Elderly people might be attacked once in a while like all others by, say, a junkie for a few pounds but I never heard of attacks on elderly people for BEING Jewish or Christian or Martian or whatever. And I would like to see you for once backing up what you say with a source. Show us those articles.
P.S. Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe some of us here live in Europe?
Brian, don't take away the fantasy that gives Richard's life meaning.
In the US anti-semitism is largely just insensitivity.
Its definitely here. Anyone that has encountered swastikas in a public park (me), or has been accosted by idiotic adolescents (my son), knows that it exists, and is NOT benign.
It is always stated hatefully, and more than the level of ethnic jokes.
Hate should never be minimized, dismissed. It should be seen, named, addressed.
In London, in the Jewish neighborhoods, there is increased hate motivated crimes.
Crimes are NOT victimless, and when directed for racial intent.
And, for Jews, for my in-laws literally the victims of real and continent wide genocide, their moderate sensitivity to it, is not dismissible.
Only ignorant people would dismiss it.
It motivates Jews because it occurs. Who knows why it motivates those that seek to dismiss it or practice it?
Who knows why Mearsheimer would laughingly think that anti-semitism is not a possibility, or that "just a little" is not worth critical attention?
I asked Phil about his wikipedia post, about his reported self-description as a "self-hating" Jew.
It is humorous and not. I'm sure Phil meant as a self-deprecation, a humility.
Those that take him up on it though, take it as permission.
Mearsheimer: it's very clear that the United States is in serious trouble. And we believe that one of the reasons we're in serious trouble – I underline "one of the reasons" – is because of the efforts of the lobby…"
I underline Mearsheimer's underlining.
Witty, you were asked for a source about that allegedly aggressive anti-Semitism near London. Instead you merely repeated yourself.
My personal source is my mother-in-law who lives in a Jewish neighborhood in London.
When she first described it, I thought, "no she is just an old woman who is scared", but then I spoke with her Hungarian home health aide who confirmed that the incidents occurred.
Is that press, verifiable? No. Is it certain? No. Is it real? I say yes.
Richard Witty: "The response to the beatings have been mixed. Some papers have declared, "well if they didn't support Zionism, they wouldn't be a target".
Sources please. Your mother-in-law's "Hungarian home health aide" is not very trustworthy, I'm sorry.
Are you making things up Richard? Because I happen to live in London and never read such a thing in any newspaper.
As far as I am concerned, your credibility is lost.
So you are angry that English press is potentially misrepresented, not that random individuals are harmed in hate crimes?
The press reflects the viewpoints that are expressed here and elsewhere, that "if Jews didn't support Zionism, then there would be no reason for Arabs and anti-semitic white youth to want to attack them."
That is a low moral standard. Hate is hate. If it occurred, it should be seen, noted, objected to.
Another anecdote. Its not verifiable.
That is that I've heard/read, I don't remember from where, that of recent Jews that have migrated to Israel (some after leaving), that an increasing reason cited is the increase in rise in anti-Semitic incidents in London, Paris, other parts of England.
Its certainly NOT a clear conclusion. Its just an anecdote.
"That is that I've heard/read, I don't remember from where, that of recent Jews that have migrated to Israel (some after leaving), that an increasing reason cited is the increase in rise in anti-Semitic incidents in London, Paris, other parts of England."
Bollocks. If it weren't for Russian immigration, of the indiscriminate kind we've seen in the recent Israeli neonazi embarrassment, more people would have been leaving Israel than arriving there in the past two decades. Almost nobody is leaving Western Europe. To the contrary, Israel's best and brightest are leaving for Europe, and those who are not leaving yet make sure they have at least two passports.
According to the Jerusalem Post:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1177251161382&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter
"The numbers are in, and they don't look too good. For the first time in over two decades, it was reported last week, Israel will likely experience a net negative migration rate in 2007.
In other words, it is estimated that more Jews will actually leave Israel than move here this year – something that hasn't happened since 1984.
According to figures compiled by the Central Bureau of Statistics, a total of just 14,400 new immigrants are expected here this year, or 5,000 less than the number anticipated to relocate abroad.
Sure, demography is far from an accurate science, and there are plenty of unforeseen, or unexpected, events that can enter into play and alter the tally.
But Israeli decision-makers would be ill-advised to dismiss these warnings out of hand. If the projections do prove correct, it would mark the continuation of an alarming trend that began seven years ago, when the number of people making aliya began spiraling downward, falling from 61,542 in 2000 to just 19,267 last year.
For a country that was built on immigration, and which faces a unique set of demographic, political and security challenges, this does not bode well for the future.
Indeed, it seems fair to say that aside from the danger posed by our neighbors' nuclear ambitions, the drying up of aliya may just be the greatest challenge to ensuring Israel's future as a Jewish state.
Simply put, we need more Jews.
Thankfully, various Israeli public figures have been sounding the alarm in recent years, stressing the need to bolster Israel's Jewish population through immigration and absorption by calling on Diaspora Jewry to come home to Israel.
But with the pool of potential immigrants from Russia and the former Soviet states shrinking rapidly, and large-scale aliya from the West not yet at hand, the prospects of this occurring appear marginal at best."
Now consider the fact that since the dissolution of the USSR (1989), over one million Soviet Jews have emigrated to Israel.
And it seems your "vibrant democracy" is not very attractive to the most important segment of the population, it's youth:
http://stlouis.ujcfedweb.org/page.html?ArticleID=144274
"Emigration from Israel exceeds immigration, report
04/20/2007
Tel Aviv (dpa) – In Israel, the number of emigrants exceeded the number of immigrants for the first time in 20 years, the Israeli daily Yediot Ahronot reported Friday.
Many emigrants were recent arrivals who wanted to leave Israel again, the report said. In 2007, 14,400 immigrants are expected in Israel while 20,000 people are expected to leave the country, according to the report based on figures for the first months of 2007.
The last time emigration exceeded immigration was in the aftermath of the 1973 Yom Kippur War and in 1983 and 1984 when inflation was high.
Meanwhile the Maariv newspaper reported that approximately a quarter of the Israeli population was considering emigration.
Almost half of the country's young people were thinking of leaving the country, the report said. Their reasons included dissatisfaction with the government, the education system, a lack of confidence in the political ruling class and concern over the security situation."
Are you going to state anything truthful for a change?
And are you sure you are not working for the ADL or some other cheap Zionist propaganda organization?
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The old Soviets had a huge apparatus to analyze the events and weaknesses of the USA.
It was a waste of time.
Most Americans were better informed of the problems here than the Soviet spies there.
The same is true for Israelis. Most Israelis are better informed of their problems than the readers of the Israeli press in the USA.
You could help the ordinary Israelis and Palestinians with a simple message, to have integrity in their societies, to promote justice and peace and talk to each other respectfully.
Give up this long distance historicism on the nasty Israel.
It is a sign of lack of integrity.
Is McCarthy back in business?
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