Notice that Desmond Tutu is saying that the west is salving its Holocaust guilt by enabling Israel in anything it chooses to do. This is wonderful and helpful, and echoes what Mike Desch has said in his landmark paper on the myth of abandonment, and what I have written about American Jews feeling that the Israel lobby is our just compensation for the U.S. doing nothing to save the Jews in Europe.
Tutu is speaking directly of the Beit Hanoun air strikes by Israel that killed 19 Palestinian civilians.
He is investigating it for the U.N. And this brings up a wonderful moment on last night's BBC News Hour. First they did a report on Tutu's investigation, and his apprehension that without some more open Israeli accounting of its missile firings on houses, Beit Hanoun must be regarded as a war crime. And again we saw the images of limp children's bodies which are aired 24/7 across the Arab world, fueling hatred. Then the next report was an interview with DefSec Robert Gates (Desch's former boss at the Bush school), in which Gates addressed the civilian casualties of American actions in Pakistan and Afghanistan and repeated what he had said in Afghanistan:
mistake, when there is an error, to apologize quickly, to compensate
the victims quickly and then carry out the investigation…"
The juxtaposition of Israeli and U.S. policies could not have been more grotesque and stunning. Again I say this is the essential problem in I/P: that massacres, grievances, enormities have gone unacknowledged for more than 60 years because the political price that presumably would be paid by acknowledging them is seen by the Israelis as too high. So they postpone any emotional reckoning at all till the political details are worked out, on territorial issues; and in the eyes of the Arab world, they become more and more heartless and monstrous.
Jews are better than this. We know how important acknowledgment of the Holocaust was to moving forward as spiritual/political actors in the 20th century. Just look at the Holocaust Memorial. Yet the Nakba is unacknowledged, except out of the side of the mouth. Again I say that we Americans can lead Israel toward some higher ground. But we have to get the Israel lobby off our backs to do so.
doing nothing to save Jews??
Nothing?
hundres of visas were granted. Apparently there were plans for more but Zionists torpedoed them if they weren't for Palestine where the Palestinians, perversely in the mind of Jews, liked their country the way it was before the Jews arrived.
In 1903 the Brits offered the Zionist conference turned down Uganda…about 250:130 was the vote…..
Look, the best thing Jews can do and could have done is become mpre self aware and REFORM themselves.
I meant to write hundreds of thousands of visas…..how many should the West have given out in the middle of a depression, Phil?
How many did Mexico give out?
China?
Japan?
Portugal with it sterritorially vast empire….have you ever heard any gratitude for the visas granted in the midst of hard economic times? I never have.
Considering the Jewsih immigration that has occured was it good for the host countries? How has the immigration been better for Westerners than for say the Palestinians?
I meant to write hundreds of thousands of visas…..how many should the West have given out in the middle of a depression, Phil?
How many did Mexico give out?
China?
Japan?
Portugal with it sterritorially vast empire….have you ever heard any gratitude for the visas granted in the midst of hard economic times? I never have.
Considering the Jewsih immigration that has occured was it good for the host countries? How has the immigration been better for Westerners than for say the Palestinians?
Hold on here, Tutu, a representative of the UN, the UN that does nothing but criticize Israel while ignoring everybody else, is saying that they don't criticize Israel.
Classic.
@rile
"Look, the best thing Jews can do and could have done is become mpre self aware and REFORM themselves."
What exactly does this mean? The US did grant visas to Jewish refugees yet send back boats of Jewish refugees and denied visas also. Hundreds of visas can not save millions. "Reform"? Like not being Jews you mean? Classic. Many Jews tried to escape to the US. It is not because they only wanted to go to Palestine. Most Jews weren't even Zionists back then.
Riley, China took everyone who could get there, and Sughihara, the Japanese consul, granted thousands of transit visas. The big bottleneck was the fact that by then it was too late to leave Germany, and the USSR making nice to Hitler by refusing transit visas.
Big lesson for Jews: Never be helpless and dependent again.
"Considering the Jewsih immigration that has occured was it good for the host countries?"
Er, who gives a shit? Asylum should be granted to people who need it, not on the basis of what's "good for the host countr[y]" (a pretty meaningless concept, in any event).
Anyway, back to Tutu's remarks: I think he's wrong, actually. Sure, on the level of public discourse, the Holocaust certainly still plays a role in securing Israel from criticism ("anti-Semitism" plays a major role in the boycott debate, for example) – although its influence has been significantly reduced, in my opinion, as a result of both the passage of time and the extensive and increasingly blatant misuse of the Holocaust as a political bludgeon by Israel's so-called "defenders".
But if by the "West" Tutu was referring to *states* – the U.S. and, I presume, the EU – then I think he's giving those institutions far too much credit. You think that the French state, for example, avoids criticising Israel because of guilt over the Holocaust, even though it played a significant role in the Rwandan genocide just a few years ago? You think that the American state, which has killed millions of people since WWII through imperialism and conquest, and which has killed probably more than two million Iraqis alone since the Gulf War, avoids criticising Israel because of guilt over the Holocaust?
It's just not plausible to suggest that these institutions, which plainly view human life as worthless at best and which are consequently up to their necks in blood, somehow regain their empathy when it comes to the Holocaust. No – the U.S. (speaking about the state, remember) supports Israeli militarism and expansionism because it perceives a strong, militaristic client state in the Middle East to be in its interests, not because of "guilt" or a sense of duty.
If Eastern European ethnic Ashkenazim had not been up to their eyeballs in mass murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide by the 1930s, Central and Eastern Europeans would have hated Jews a lot less, and if Jews had not been so strongly associated with murderous revolutionary activities, more countries would probably have been willing to accept more Jews.
Even so, the critical time period to escape started after the start of WW2 when flight was practically impossible.
In general far too many Jews completely misuse the Holocaust, and the rest of US need to start telling Holocaust obsessive-compulsives to knock it off.
Really, the National Yiddish Book Center is a much more appropriate memorial to the victims of the Holocaust than the USHMM, which should be turned over to the victims of modern colonialist imperialism, Marxism, Zionism, and Friedmanism.
If American Jews want to stifle increasing anti-Jewish feeling throughout the world, they must start demanding the abolition of the State of Israel, the removal of the Zionist interloper population, the seizure of assets of Zionist Jewish political economic oligarchs, and the arrest of Jewish plutocrats and intelligentsia that provide material support of Zionist terrorism.
Great stuff, Joachim.
We do need to reform, the only way this will happen is by revisiting our own history, by making ammends as we have demanded from others.
If we learn nothing, we will repeat history.
"The simple fact is that it was organized Jewry as a political entity – and not even the German Jewish community per se – that actually initiated the first shot in the war with Germany. Germany's response was a defensive – not an offensive – measure. Were that fact widely known today, it would cast new light on the subsequent events that ultimately led to the world-wide conflagration that followed."
link to 911omissionreport.com
The above refers to the organized U.S. and British Ashkenazi Jewish "preemptive" boycott of Germany, but might just as well refer to Jewish Bolshevism and its millions of post WWI murders in the Soviet Union, as well.
What it really all boils down to is an insular, brainwashed organized Jewry in the Western diaspora working itself into a hysterical frenzy, largely based on its own culture of paranoia and indoctrinated loathing, making rash and foolish decisions to facilitate “preemptive” mass war against some perceived "threat," often resulting in mass murder, with the consequences of that murder blowing back against organized Jewry.
Hence Jewish Bolshevik “preventive” mass murder (financed by wealthy Western diaspora Jewry), hence German fear and loathing of Jews followed by the U.S. Jewish “preemptive” boycott of Germany against the wishes of German Jews, hence WW II, hence the Holocaust, hence Israel and its “justified” belligerence, hence Islamic blowback, hence insular US organized Jewry organizing war against Mideast Muslims, hence the Iraq war, hence an emboldened organized Jewry facilitating a “preventive” war against Iran against the wishes of Iranian Jews…
What is the common denominator? A paranoid schizophrenic diaspora organized Jewry with too much money and too much time on its hands that does a great job of working itself and the world into a warlike frenzy, getting plenty of its own people killed along the way (often along with millions of non-Jews), but somehow always manages to save its own skin, capitalize on the others' tragedy, and portray itself as the ultimate victim, all in overwrought fashion.
Anyone who wants the real "why" of the Holocaust should look at the perpetual common denominator: wealthy, bored diaspora Jews and their dysfunctional culture.
American guilt over the failure to save Jews during the Holocaust? What about Jewish guilt, the guilt of those fathers of Zionism after who streets in Israel are named?
Ze'ev Jabotinsky a founder of the Haganah: "There is no justice, no law, and no God in heaven, only a single law which decides and supercedes all–settkent."
Nathan Schwalb of the Jewish Agency responsible for matters relating to the rescue of European Jews, was asked for money by Czech Jews to halt transports to Auschwitz. His reply? "AFter all, the allies will be victorious. Aftewr the victory they will once again divide up the world between the nations…as the war ends, we must do everything so that Erets Yisroel should become a Jewish state…the shedding of Jewish blood in the Diaspora is necessary in order for us to demand the establishment of a Jewish state before the peace commission…Czech Jewry must resign itself to annihilation in the Auxchwitz crematoria."
Yitzchak Gruenbaum, chairperson of the Jewish Agency REscue Committee. Addressing a meeting in Tel Aviv in February 1943, he stated: "When they come to us with two plans–the rescue of the masses of Jews in Europe or the redemption of the land–I vote, without a second thought, for the redemption of the land…If there would be a possibility today of buying packages of food with the money of the Keren Hayesod to send it through Liston, would we do such a thing? No! And once again No!"
Gruenbaum is also credited with having declared, "One cow in Palestine is worth all of the Jews in Poland."
Chaim Weizmann to the Zionist Congress in 1937: "The hopes of Europe's six million Jews are centered on emigration. I was asked, 'Can you bring six million Jews to Palestine?' I replied, 'No' …From the depths of the tragedy I want to save two million young people…The old ones will pass. They will bear their fate or they will not. They were dust, economic and moral dust in a cruel world…Only the branch of the young shall survive…"
In ancient times our ancestors worshipped a golden calf. Today we worship Washington and weapons and the progeny of Zionists who worship land at the expense of Jewish lives.
And we're still getting away with blaming non-Jews in the U.S. for not coming to our rescue? Well, they've been doing just that since the Holocaust and neither they nor we have learned from our past.
Phil
You should completely ban ed, his points are pure antisemitism and are not worthy of any discussion.
syvanen,
anti-elitism and anti-fascism only amount to anti-semitism to the extent that organized Jewry intermingles itself with elitists and fascists, takes on their characteristics, and openly identifies itself as one with a supremacist institution (Zionism), which encourages even more fascistic behavior by its partners in the kind of culture of contempt for average human beings we see exhibited by the two-party regime today.
Organized Judaism is writing its own ticket, and its own fate, as it always has. The path it has chosen (at least) since Jacob Schiff and his merry band of hyper-rich Capitalist war-instigators was cognizant and calculated. Average Jews, just as average Americans, should hold nothing but contempt and scorn for these types of elites and their fascist, racialist Zionist religion.
Until organized Jewry untangles itself from the ideologies of Zionism and its American twin of institutionalized elitism and supremacism (witness the recent massive transfer of bad debt from the Fed/Wall St elities to average, hard-working American taxpayers and their children), no such thing as racist “anti-semitism” exists — only ideological anti-semitism. And political argument is always fair play — unless you’re a totalitarian. Are you? What are you trying to hide? What are you scared of, the truth?
Meh, both side bandy dead babies. But there's plenty more where they come from. It's the land that's the prize. Le Bon Dieu quit making more of that long ago. But Jews aren't supposed to rip people off, says so right in the 10 Commandments transmitted by the greatest Jew who ever lived, Moses!
A tragic irony; a grim paradox, if you will.
syvanen, stop lending yourself to knee jerk impulses, you have no right to silence others. Answer Ed, ignore Ed, but he has a right to speak. Read Joachim, too many communities have been denied the right to speak of their victims, and yes, our part in tyranny. We have been victims and we have been perpetrators.
This pressure to silence other groups epitomises the pressure cooker atmosphere, either release the pressure or it will blow.
It is up to Phil to ban ed. Ed is free to push his hate and prejudice elsewhere. Just letting this rot fester on Phil's site is discrediting him.
Joachim,
What happened to the Jews between 1930 and 1945? Clearly there are elements of the story that are suppressed or propagandized. It has never made sense to me, since being indoctrinated as a child, that the Germans just happened to hate an innocent group of patriotic fellow citizens.
Add to that certain facets of our present state:
- the quasi-consipiracy of silence regarding Israel, Iraq and the role of Jews in the US today.
- the evident disdain that Jews have for the gentile and non-cosmopolitan part of the US.
- the literal war on gentile religious belief and family structure.
- the subversion of democracy through judicial channels.
What are we to make of it?
It starts to breed skepticism about claims of industrial killing of six million. Add to that that revisionists make some points that are hard to explain away.
Or am I way, way off?
How many were actually killed, and why have there been no forensic studies of the area around the camps in Poland? Or have there been? You would think with a question of this magnitude you would want to verify using every technique available.
I would hate to be wrong on a question like this but how can anyone with free will not raise a question when you consider the techniques of those who run what Finkelstein calls "the industry"?
How can you not ask the question when you are forbidden (literally, in Europe) from asking the question?
A typical totalitarian tactic: call free speech and uncomfortable historical interpretation "hate" and declare them outside the realm of allowable discourse.
It's not hard to see the basis of totalitarianism: the need for the guilty to suppress disclosure of their crimes, and control political discourse to ensure they’re never held accountable.
…but somehow we can never get enough "education" about the Holocaust. I guess its only "hate" when the designated ruling class is the perp.
Regarding the claim the Americans did nothing to save the Jews of Europe here's a link to a photo of an American cemetery in Normandy.
http://www.mazh.com/z1/pics/FR-Normandy-Colleville%20Cem.jpg
If Zionists can comment here I cant complain about the antisemites. But the difference is that Phil does not dialog with antisemites. (Yet?)
There have been work done on the death camps by eastern european historians, but definately not enough.
When I was young there was a real indignation in Poland that the suffering of the Jews was elevated over and above suffering of all other people killed. The tragedies were cosidered personal, rather than tribal, and no suffering was considered "better" than other suffering, and no death was considered "greater tragedy" than that of another death.
Researching or publishing any work on the killings in death camps is considered "Holocoust revisionism" and morally "totally reprehensible". As a result, there is not enough work done on killings of other ethnic groups like gipsies or poles, on the ways that the killing machines were set up and how the entire human support apparatus was maintained. (All vital sociological and psychological questions to help identify the similar movements in the societies).
Which is exactly the point Dr. Ahmadinejad made when he came to America: that research should be conducted separate from politics and that facts are apolitical.
Once research is done and facts are unearthed – use it in politics to your heart content, I say – this is true freedom of speech.
Restriction on researching Holocoust is akin to restricting the research on bubonic plaque with the argument that research is disrespectful to the suffering of the victims. Any work can only be done only by descendants of the victims, and even they should not learn about etiology but only of rudimentary epidemiology. Results should be displayed in museums only.
Politically correct madness.
Paul wrote: "If Zionists can comment here I cant complain about the antisemites."
Good observation. "Anti-semites" (so called) are today the polar opposites of Zionists (and I might add, the only ones who are serious about challenging their politcally correct fascism).
Is this somebody spoofing Eva?