1948 and the Jews of the Arab world forced out of their homes after Israel's
founding. Both groups lost their homes and property and deserve either to
return or to receive compensation. But there is a difference with the
Jews. Since the Arab world kicked them out and since they had no where to
go but Israel and since they are the majority of Israeli Jews, this lends a
great deal of credence to the moral and legal right of this Jewish state to
exist. There is not a word about this in anything written by the advocates
for the displaced Palestinians, except to dismiss it as a negotiating
point. But tell that to the Jews of Yemen, Iraq or Syria who were forced
to leave their homes and move to Israel. Those of us in the Israel
peace camp understand the misery and displacement of the Palestinians. But
many of us cannot find a negotiating partner because of intentional, I think,
blindness of the folks on the other side. This doesn't make for an easy
resolution to a conflict. Nor does it engender sympathy for people looking to be
sympathetic.
Steve, quick response from me, Phil: To me, this says Cycle of violence. The Jews kick out the Arabs, the Arabs kick out the Jews. It's been going on for 80 years. As an American, I want to be shut of this mess. I want a fair resolution. One problem here is that the Jews kicked out of Arab societies have had–facts on the ground–pretty good lives, while the Palestinians pushed out in '48 haven't. Palestinians have been on the short end of the stick forever. Refugees in Arab societies, massacred in Jordan, bantustanned in Israel. And I hear the Syrians don't like the Palestinians either. We've got to come up with a solution that gives these people dignity, fairness and: a chance. I believe in the right of return because I think Israelis have been–facts on the ground– exercising their right of return, to Judea and Samaria, a biblical utopia, for 40 years. Why not let everyone go back who wants to go back, Jew and Arab? Ralph Seliger says this isn't the principle of World War II refugees. Right. But a lot of them got a whole state: Israel. And international convention changed after WWII to the point where we have UN 194 for the Arabs and recent UN resolutions saying the Bosnians could go back to their lands. And I guess this is where I don't think Zionism provides a good answer…
If Israel did such a good job of ethnic cleansing how come there are a million arabs in Israel and countless more in the west bank and gaza. I know they breed fast but you would think that the Zio-nazi's could be doing a better job at that.
Statistically, a population that was slighty a third representing the area from the River Jordan and the Mediterranean becoming an 80 % majority is quite a spectacular feat.
PS Israel prides itself on "democracy"; it needs the PR campaign to hide the security measures it inflicts on the Israeli Arabs. In this post-colonial world, another major dispossession would be condemned (unless you are in a war ie Iraq, Sudan, Congo).
Steve, would this be (a more than) adequate impetus for a Palestinian movement that mirrors Zionism, ie a safe haven for the Palestinians because they have nowhere to go. They languish in refugee camps and are treated as hosts in their own country and unwanted in the surrounding states. They are viewed as "threats" and "terrorists" and "no partner for peace". Also, the Palestinians can only negotiate what falls in the occupied territories and not in Iraq, Syria or Yemen.
One of the great tragedies for the Middle East caused by the creation of Israel was the disappearance of ancient Jewish communities throughout the Arab world. Baghdad had been 1/3 Jewish, the Jews of Morocco protected by their King when the Vichy govt wanted to exterminate them, throughout the Arab world Jewish communities were rich and respected.
Before 1950, the Middle East was a glorious mosaic, Jews, Christians, Muslims intermingling, doing business together (although not intermarrying). Now monolithic Islam predominates. This is unfortunate in what had been one of the most cosmopolitan and tolerant parts of the world.
I had read that the Mossad engineered anti- semetic bombings in Morocco in the early 50s in order to encourage emigration. I mentioned this to twp Israelis. The first denied this calumny; the second said "Oh yes, my father was involved with doing that."
One of the great tragedies for the Middle East caused by the creation of Israel was the disappearance of ancient Jewish communities throughout the Arab world. Baghdad had been 1/3 Jewish, the Jews of Morocco protected by their King when the Vichy govt wanted to exterminate them, throughout the Arab world Jewish communities were rich and respected.
Before 1950, the Middle East was a glorious mosaic, Jews, Christians, Muslims intermingling, doing business together (although not intermarrying). Now monolithic Islam predominates. This is unfortunate in what had been one of the most cosmopolitan and tolerant parts of the world.
I had read that the Mossad engineered anti- semetic bombings in Morocco in the early 50s in order to encourage emigration. I mentioned this to twp Israelis. The first denied this calumny; the second said "Oh yes, my father was involved with doing that."
My mom was born in Tunisia. They didn't leave because of hersey Mossad bombings or because of they were fooled by zionist agents. The left because they were afraid of their lives. It's no coincidence that my family left Tunisia at the same time the French soldiers left. My family had no french citizenship. They spoke Arabic and they looked Arab.
There is a difference between both the morality and political significance of dispossession in the effort to survive, and disposession in effort at "solidarity" revenge.
It is a statement of the general Arab society, more than of the Palestinians.
Everyone hates refugees. They are poor, dependant, angry. Noone invites them to be incorporated into society.
The Jewish refugees in Europe following WW2 were NOT invited to return to their homes in Hungary, Rumania, Poland, Russia, France even.
Their only haven was in independant Israel.
Now is not then, and now is not all that great for Jews that constitute a significant portion of societies.
Even here in the US/Canada, where Jews are successful, here on this blog there is resentment for that success.
There should be pride. Here in America, a former refugee, a former oppressed people can thrive!!!
Noone invited the Palestinians to integrate. Noone argued or fought for their homeland.
Grandchildren of former refugees in Lebanon, two generations born on Lebanese soil, are STILL not afforded citizenship in Lebanon.
Now is the time to make it possible for Palestinians to finally have a sovereign home.
Not another 50 year delay, while the conditions for a single-state magically evolve (or don't).
I guess the Jews in Damscus during the blood libel incident of 1840 didn't get the word about how wonderful their lives were.
Exactly Richard. This is more of a comment towards the Arab collective but there is also a significant factor for the expulsion: it was the direct consequence of the bloody acts by the Zionist forces that expelled the Palestinians and then left the neighbouring Arabs, who were rather a primitive nation dealing with its own post-colonial problems suddenly dealing with another potential problem ie the Palestinians.
And also we're dealing with hypothetics now: you believe that it was for survival, and in some cases it were. Would that merit the same type of unified violence by the Palestinians to remove the necessary people for their own nation? By hypothetics, I mean that without the Zionists desire to have their state for Jews, this also created the absence to fight for the expelled Jews to return to their former homes, even though there are many indications that they either (a) wanted to return back to their homes in Eastern Europe or (b) wanted to move to Western Europe or North America, not Palestine. What could have been achieved for their return if not for the would-be Israeli leaders attempts to co-erce as many Jews to come to Palestine?
how is weis a tunisian name?
@some want to know bullshit
It's not. Obviously my mom got married before I was born. Stay on track.
Michael Weis made the following comment in a previous entry on this discussion.
It is worthwhile to note that local Jews often with the aid of French Jews often worked quite hard to alienate the Muslim population by trying to act as native collaborators for the French colonialists. In addition there is a clear pattern of Zionist incitement in French N. Africa, and it goes back at least to the 20s. See Some Things Never Change.
Heartily agree with your post. It is highly depressing that so many advocates for the Palestinians are in a state of denial when it comes to the Jews forced out of Arab countries. They either try to claim it did not happen, or, if it did, it was an understandable backlash, or that the Jews were to blame or had it coming to them, as comrade Martillo seems to be arguing ( his claim that the Boy Scouts were carrying the wrong flag I find laughable.)
Why can they simply not admit that Arab/Muslim antisemitism drove the Jews out – and the leaky transit camp tent awaiting them in the desert in Israel was not exactly paradise. This Arab/Muslim antisemitism has deep cultural and historic roots – in the semi-apartheid regime operating for centuries under Islam.
If you take the 2,000 year old Iraqi Jews as an example, you cannot tar them with the colonial brush as you can the Jews of Algeria, for instance, and yet their suffering began well before the creation of Israel. In 1941 some 180 Jews were murdered in a pogrom. The Jews in Iraq suffered more than most Jewish communities in the Arab world and yet they bent over backwards, Martillo, to show their loyalty to the Iraqi state. What did they get in return? Dispossession, show trials, arrests, executions, discrimination. What is your excuse for all this? We will get no peace and no reconciliation between Arabs and Jews until Arabs are called to account for their treatment of their Jews.