Sunday's communal Jewish progressive conference will feature Meretz/USA's Lilly Rivlin in a panel on the effect of the Iraq war on the Middle East. Dan Sisken of Mideast Brief goes after Meretz USA to me today:
What is interesting is that
Meretz/Israel is much more honest about what's going on than
Meretz/USA. You could pull up many statements by Shulamit Aloni (Meretz leader for several years in the nineties) that would support your description of things on the West Bank. At some point, you have to cut through all the BS and recognize the
reality of what's going on in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and has been
for so long. Here's a good one:
The US Jewish Establishment's
onslaught on former President Jimmy Carter is based on him daring
to tell the truth which is known to all: through its army, the
government of Israel practises a brutal form of Apartheid in
the territory it occupies.
That was the time when everyone in the Jewish establishment and leadership was jumping on Carter. Jeffrey Goldberg called him biblical epithets. Who were the exceptions? Michael Lerner. JVP, I guess.
Absolutely MUST SEE video on Mr. Goldberg:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/about_us/goldberg.html
Stumbled upon this today: Everytime you think you reached bottom, you find you are stepping on somebody's head!
Phil, I would just like respectfully to point out that at some point, you have to acknowledge what is happening to the economy in this country and in the world. The Dow finished today below 8000, which means that the Oct. 10th lows have been broken, and now we will probably have a free fall to 6,500 or so, if there is not a miraculous turn around tomorrow morning.
Questions: what happens to the pax Americana, when its economy is in tatters? what occurs to its dependencies, like Israel, when its economy implodes? What are the long-term prospects for Israel in this kind of world economic situation? For the moment, Israel's economy is not tanking, mainly because it is based on recession resilient manufacture of arms. But ultimately in a depression, the governments of the world will have to choose between butter and guns, and my bet is they will choose butte. This will be the case with this country as well. Reality has a way of asserting itself.
The special relationship is rapidly becoming toast, as in, we are approaching a time when the concept of "toast" ceases to have meaning because people cannot afford bread and butter and toasters and electricity.
No matter, We will keep giving Israel its gigantic annual dole, both direct aid and indirect aid. Not the slightest sign otherwise is on the horizon. The current official USA unemployment rate is about 6.5%, which means in actuality, about 15%. It will have to double, reaching the Great Depression norm, before any USA leader might say, wait a minute before the usual rubber-stamp for Israel welfare.
Hey Phil, what do you make of the dustup over a political cartoon in an Emory student newspaper? The reaction from the faculty is interesting and might merit a comment…
http://lipstadt.blogspot.com/
Madrid: The special relationship is rapidly becoming toast, as in, we are approaching a time when the concept of "toast" ceases to have meaning because people cannot afford bread and butter and toasters and electricity.
Colin: I have come to think, with regret that we are very, very far from the dissolution of the special relationship, and that it will not be 'toast' anytime soon. If the same leadership we have today were still in power and American children were starving in the streets, I think it likely they would still subsidize Israeli ethnic cleansing, both directly and indirectly through bribes to authoritarian Arab regimes to remain non-hostile to Israel. I have come to realize with horror and no small measure of sadness, that Israel is a rabidly racist nation. The mountain of evidence of their crimes in the OPT cannot simply be wished away. A very large portion of the blame can be attributed to European antisemitism of many past generations. While past antisemitism is a reason, it is not an excuse. We should not have relations as friendly as we have with such a state until they change their ways.
Unfortunately, Zionist racism is not confined to Israel. Some, though by NO MEANS ALL, American Zionists truly do look at us as no better than food animals, lives and labor to be used as needed. It is an ugly thing to say, and uglier still because it true. It is so very disappointing. However, it should be carefully noted that this does NOT include non-Zionist Jews. I have no idea what proportion of American Jews are Zionist, nor any guess for how many Zionists are racist, which I define as supporting ethnic cleansing in the OPT willingly and with full realization of the magnitude of suffering. Whatever the distributions may be, I suspect the virulence may be skewed sharply towards the wealthy and powerful, insofar as these two variables can be separated.
The data for this assertion has piled up and piled up, and I can no longer ignore the horrible reality that this is the only explanation consistent with it. The question becomes "How do we move forward?". I still think it is our moral duty to work towards ensuring a 'soft landing' for American Jews for when the lobby is defeated and the special relationship ended. We must not fall into the trap of blaming a whole people for the actions and values of some members, no matter how numerous. A fundamental part of achieving this objective is continuing to reach out to moderate Zionists and non-Zionists. I suspect that many really don't know the full story of what is going on in the OPT. I'll close on a negative note with the latest piece of data: Jonathan Cook's 'The Real Goal of Israel's Blockade of Gaza". link to antiwar.com
Mr. Cook is a fantastic journalist in the middle of the action, residing I believe near Bethlehem. He will be the Robert Fisk of his generation, and I have come to have a high degree of confidence in his judgment. The article is very much worth reading.
"While past antisemitism is a reason, it is not an excuse."
Good point.
Knowing wrongs done in the West Bank, will inspire American Jews to oppose those wrongs. Demonizing Jews in general, or Zionism in general, will corner most Jews that continue to value their association and suggest that opposing bigotry against Jews is a more apt focus than opposing wrongs in the West Bank.
I agree, and think that spreading awareness of what is happening in the West Bank and Gaza is key. It would force people to choose a side.
I don't think its necessary to choose a side.
I think its necessary to stop harmful behavior, on both sides.
Behaviors, not persons.
And patterns of behavior, not those who so do? (and do again, again)
I strongly disagree. It IS necessary to choose a side: either you are for ethnic cleansing and its attendant barbarity and dehumanization, or you are not. A clear delineation is necessary to isolate the extremists, and we are all involved. The pro-ethnic cleansing crowd, I am guessing mostly religious, CANNOT be negotiated with. They will talk, talk, talk, but it is highly unlikely that they will voluntarily change their behavior. Talking for them is all about hiding the truth from as many people as possible for as long as possible. It was implicit in my last post that I now believe engaging in a dialogue with colonists and their strongest supporters for the purpose of changing hearts and minds is a waste of time: only moderate and non Zionists, and the enormous numbers of other people who have no idea what is going on, may yet be convinced. The best behavioral modification we can hope for with the pro-colonization types is the same as for sociopaths: you cannot impart empathy to them to facilitate restraint or make them understand that certain behaviors are wrong, but you can make them understand that their behaviors are completely unacceptable to the rest of society, and they must conform, or face judicial, economic, and social consequences.
Middle ground on this issue is cowardice. ALL Americans, ALL Israelis, ALL Jews and ALL Palestinians are involved whether they like it or not. My family has been in North America since 1713 and have NOTHING to do with the Israeli-Palestinian problem or its antecedents. It shouldn't be my problem, but it IS because extremist Zionists have made it the problem of every American. I pay for it with additional risk to my family, with decades of spending (borrowing plus interest) subsidizing ethnic cleansing that constitutes a steady drain of resources that should have been available for American schools and health care, with economic policies that stifle the growth of American business and prosperity (stupid and pointless embargoes), and with insane and unjust wars that bankrupt my country's economy causing widespread suffering and fostering authoritarianism and lawlessness both here and abroad. American government policies in support of ethnic cleansing and colonization in the OPT, as opposed to those which support the basic maintenance and health of the Israeli state, are a root cause of the 9/11 bombings and many other terrorist incidents, and of the Iraq invasion and myriad associated conflicts. We will be enduring the consequences for decades to come. No one on the planet wants an American war with Iran, except for Israel and American extremist Zionists. We've already blown off one foot for them, why should we blow off the other? The yammering for yet another war should outrage every decent American.
The status quo is not acceptable. It will not change until those supporting Israel, but not colonization in the OPT, separate themselves politically from the pro-colonists. I realize that this is a difficult undertaking because it will necessarily divide families and communities. Tough shit. Americans have weathered exactly the same kind of bitterly divisive conflicts before, e.g. the Revolutionary War, the Civil war and slavery, and Vietnam, and we will undoubtedly do so again. Choosing not to undertake the marginalization of extremists is cowardice, and a grossly unjust imposition on the rest of us. The colonists are NOT good people, and the fruit of American labor should be used to improve the lives of Americans, and deserving others, including Israelis living within the 1967 borders. We deserve, nay DEMAND, better.
Very well written, Colin Murry.
Ditto, Colin Murray.
I'd like you to do a fireside chat with every American home.