Remember how important Rabbi Lerner was to the last Democratic White House? He was a spiritual adviser to Hillary Clinton. Well now he's extending his hand to Obama. That means taking a slap at the left, too. From the New Jersey Jewish News:
The Newark-born founding editor of Tikkun magazine also urged fellow liberals to challenge “those on the Left who would totally demean Israel.”
Lerner said the Left’s penchant for harsh criticism of Israel is “a huge error.”
“It is a huge error to make it seem as though the Israeli people are the worst human rights violators on the planet,” said Lerner. “That particularly is absurd coming from [critics in] the United States, which has been involved in killing about 100 times as many people as those who have been killed in the Israel-Palestine struggle.”
The answer to Lerner's critique is: no one said Israel is the worst human rights violator, but it's an important one Americans can do something about; two wrongs don't make a right; these human right abuses are being done in our name; and when the U.S. does this kind of thing, the left squawks too. Recall that Tikkun printed a defense of the Gaza slaughter a couple months back. I wonder if Rabbi Lerner isn't going wobbly on us.
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{ 38 comments }
…said the right’s penchant for uncritical support of Israel is “a huge error.”
the right has totally demeaned israel…
“It is a huge error to make it seem as though the Israeli people are the worst human rights violators on the planet,” said Lerner. “That particularly is absurd coming from [critics in] the United States, which has been involved in killing about 100 times as many people as those who have been killed in the Israel-Palestine struggle.” Finally, you gotta spring the big one! No.4 ! to witty "The Whole World Sucks (Even our Special Friends)" http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2008/07/ho...
Thing is, we killed a lot of people (in Iraq) becuase of the crazed Israel supporters, so i tend to put that on their 'tab.'
Yes, you hit the essential distinction, Phil. We fund and arm Israel and anything it does reflects directly on us. If Israel were truly independent, rather than a kind of out-of-control adolescent client state, then, and only then, would Lerner's criticism be valid.
Guess what. He's a RABBI!!!!!!!!!! Who would look for sanity or principle from a damn rabbi? It's absurd. It's like looking for solidarity with David Koresh.
Well, some open honesty from the Lerner-types: No matter how much America does for Israel, no matter that it was the country that put an end to the Holocaust, America is always and eternally to be condemned, and, in its evil, never ever (it's "absurd"!) to be compared to Israel. What exactly keeps Rabbi Lerner here anyway? Missionary work for us barbarians?
Lerner's an avowed Zionist. He peddles his "politics of meaning" mumbo-jumbo as some kind of supposed new spiritual progressivism wherein we're all supposed to actually care about the "other", but ultimately he's just another Jewish apologist for the racism and militarism of the Israeli state.
Left-liberalism and its chosen and pampered outlaw/victim of the week is a major reason Israel developed into the juvenile delinquent that it now is. Pat Buchanan was hammering the Zionists years ago as dangerous hustlers. But the Left decried him as an anti-semite and a bigot, motivated by irrational, Christian-based hatred. If only they’d listened… This latest leftist insistence that the world would be better off if Israel is simply aborted is consistent with its air-headed, short term-thinking political and social views, and its short span of attention. To use a rather crude metaphor that some may find offensive (cover your eyes now) the Left is like a slut who goes around picking up these sad sack "victims" and thugs, has sex with them out of opportunism, and to spite her conservative father, but then wants to abort the product of the liaison because it is inconvenient to her continued lifestyle of sluttery and shrewd manipulation. [cond]
[contd] If left-liberalism hadn't built up the Jew as the ultimate, entitled victim, there's no way in hell Israel would be getting away with what it currently is, and has been for a long time. Hell, the left-liberals have all the power in this country now. Why don't they put their foot down, which is all it would take to reign Israel in? Because the whole left-wing approach is to throw taxpayer money and government indulgence at a problem until it gets so bad that abortion is the only alternative — after which it will move on to some other sad sack thug to promote as the ultimate, entitled victim.
I agree.
Sadly and unfortunately, I've come to same conclusion about Lerner. I used to have enormous respect for him. No longer. He's a phony.
Perhaps the message is subtle. I have come to understand the fear and guilt that underlies alot of things Jewish. I. for one, do not question the existence of the state of Israel. I despise their treatment of the Palestinians. I am part of this problem since the US underwrites and fronts for Israel in world affairs. I want a divorce. There is so much to be done. I've read that perhaps the Jews didn't have a proper period of mourning for the Holocaust. There must be reparations for the Palestinians. I would need to read more about Michael Lerner's statement. I do try to understand.
Rabbi Lerner has consistently opposed Israeli settlements, harshly criticized many of Israel's internal policies, harshly criticized Israel's excesses during Lebanon and Gaza. And, he has been abused by much of the left, FOR being a rabbi (a spiritualist/moralist rather than an anarchist or some other self-appointed idiocy). And, he is a Zionist that regards Israel's right to exist as fundamentally self-determination, as a realized great positive in the world. He is a reformist. Make something that is wonderful BETTER. Phil has this sort of glee in his comment "The US can effect Israel". Its a great irony, that belies the limits of his thinking about what constitutes American dissent, and its focus. That is that there is an implication of pride of the US being able to impose on a state, in the name of opposing US being able to impose on a state/people.
Rabbi Lerner expects his audience ("fellow liberals") to know of whom he speaks when he refers to "those on the Left." I assume the reference is to 'Communists.' General alert: Fallacy of association.
Ed – it appears that some here are not getting you – - I have listened for months now – I have to agree wholeheartedly with most of your missives re political correctness and leftist politics – but I need some info about how your Libertarian views work. I see unregulated capitalism as unbridled greed (child labor , sweat shops, endless work-weeks, concentration of wealth, etc., etc., ) I see this because socio-paths seem always to rule in governments and business despite the best wishes of regular people with the best intentions. And aren't our current 40 hr work weeks, with vacations and health benefits a result of worker related (IWW in particular- meaning Socialist) proddings against the monopolistic capitalists who have demonstrably stifled any effort at worker rights for a decent living (that all of us enjoy now), not to mention the documented innovation-stifling effects of monopoly capitalism on other smaller start-up businesses. I am seriously trying to understand the Libertarian perspective on this but I need something more to chew on – intellectually and historically to come around to your position.. and I am serious about this because something ain't working with the current world view of most – please esplain yoself ! I am truly listening . . . . . . . . .
Ed – it appears that some here are not getting you – - I have listened for months now – I have to agree wholeheartedly with most of your missives re political correctness and leftist politics – but I need some info about how your Libertarian views work. I see unregulated capitalism as unbridled greed (child labor , sweat shops, endless work-weeks, concentration of wealth, etc., etc., ) I see this because socio-paths seem always to rule in governments and business despite the best wishes of regular people with the best intentions. And aren't our current 40 hr work weeks, with vacations and health benefits a result of worker related (IWW in particular- meaning Socialist) proddings against the monopolistic capitalists who have demonstrably stifled any effort at worker rights for a decent living (that all of us enjoy now), not to mention the documented innovation-stifling effects of monopoly capitalism on other smaller start-up businesses.
Ed – it appears that some here are not getting you – - I have listened for months now – I have to agree wholeheartedly with most of your missives re political correctness and leftist politics – but I need some info about how your Libertarian views work. I see unregulated capitalism as unbridled greed (child labor , sweat shops, endless work-weeks, concentration of wealth, etc., etc., ) I see this because socio-paths seem always to rule in governments and business despite the best wishes of regular people with the best intentions. And aren't our current 40 hr work weeks, with vacations and health benefits a result of worker related (IWW in particular- meaning Socialist) proddings against the monopolistic capitalists who have demonstrably stifled any effort at worker rights for a decent living (that all of us enjoy now), not to mention the documented innovation-stifling effects of monopoly capitalism on other smaller start-up businesses.
Any reparations for the Palestinians must come from the UN with the majority of funds generated from Arab nations.
Well that is a typical remark. Tell me does the Jewish state ever pay for anything? They are like a drunk or a drug addict out on the town with a hundred stolen credit cards. They destroy, the world picks up the tab every time. Time to cut them off. Let the US Jews pay for the reparations, they funded the settlements.
Is that suggestion to stand alone, without consideration of US funding for Israel?
The country that put an end to the Holocaust was the USSR.
The "Left" did protest in in the streets in this country and around the world in the year leading up to Shrub's attack on Iraq. The US MSM press didn't cover it much. The broad mass of the American people were deprived of any objective information regarding US-Iraqi relations and the pre-history of the then present confrontation. Instead they were bombarded by propaganda depicting Saddam Hussein as a modern-day Hitler painted on a target. No picture of an Iraqi child painted on a target ever appeared. By August of '04 a poll showed that nearly 70% of Americans had come to the conclusion their government had taken them into a war based on false assumptions. Too late. This pattern has been, and is now being repeated in the present lead up to another preemptive attack–on Iran. Even after the years of blank checks to Israel when our own nation is barely floating on pyramid credit, and despite the sickening public display so recently in Gaza, the American MSM is again depriving Americans of objective information regarding Iran and the pre-history of the I-P situation. Again, there is a new Hitler rising, if not yet arisen yet with a handful of WMD. The objections to invading Iraq were discussed in campus forums, especially on the usual campuses, such as Berekely. But students no longer had to worry about getting drafted. Still don't. Obama was elected to take us out of Iraq. There is a growing split to the left on his military action in Afghanistan. Again, the American MSM has had little coverage whether this is the best tactic. Most Americans are not proud of the deaths and misery toll we have afflicted on the Iraqi people. There is no MSM discussion easily available to Joe & Jane Blow regarding how we were lied into attacking Iraq, none regarding Obama's decision to not pursue a war crimes accounting, or indeed any accountability at all as to those who stacked the deck to seduce us into war, to OK torture, to OK invasion of our civil rights in the name security. Two wrongs don't make a right, whether its Iraq and Iran or Shoah and Nakba. 2 + 2 = a terrible 4. Witty right: "Rabbi Lerner has consistently opposed Israeli settlements, harshly criticized many of Israel's internal policies, harshly criticized Israel's excesses during Lebanon and Gaza. " The referenced url says Lerner is worried Obama will be seduced by inside-the-beltway politics as usual. That is a valid concern; indeed one often expressed with decent detail on this blog, for example the issue raised each time Obama appoints someone to a key slot, and each time many of us see AIPAC involved, etc. Who is vetted, who isn't? Why? But Lerner's tactic of blurting about (thanks Mooser) hasbara tactic # 4 does nothing at all–except give the MSM a way to pretend to cover up what it should be talking about now. It's a veiled way of pushing Shoah guilt on those who would try to inform the American Public of the information it needs so that we do not keep repeating the same mistakes. It has been the Palestinians who have been harshly criticized, indeed demonized, and Israel has been sacrosanct yet Lerner is overcome with worry Israel (and our enablement of its actions to our detriment) is getting too much criticism. Go figure. I guess its fear (thanks Jim Byers) that's moving him–the problem is every rationalizing tyrant knows how to stir up fear.
Oops. Please ignore "pretend to" in my comment above.
Every country that sent it's citizens to fight and die fighting against the Nazis put an end to the Holocaust. I have had several family members who fought in WW2 and my parents were born in war-torn Britain – so I always find such comments -not to mention the notion that there should be a collective guilt in the west for the Holocaust – generally speaking, quite insulting…
I give Lerner credit for starting a pretty good magazine–no, a great magazine. Phil criticizes Tikkun because it had a pro-Gaza War piece, but it also had a very good anti-Gaza War piece, much stronger than Lerner himself liked, and it allowed the reader to decide which was better. I don't want that approach everywhere, but Tikkun is in part an outreach to the Jewish community. Lerner himself can be almost WIttyesque in his obtuseness at times, but since he's the founder of Tikkun I cut him a lot of slack.
"..I've read that perhaps the Jews didn't have a proper period of mourning for the Holocaust…."—jim byers Which victims around this world of ours have ever had proper periods of mourning jim? If you ask me, the Jews have had much more world wide recognition of their victim hood and been given more reparations than any other collective victims of crimes against humanity, yet they have allowed the Zionists amongst them to misuse this worldwide recognition they have received and the reparations for a racist oriented agenda which has been undermining and violating the rights of others.
Our government does not have to impose anything on Israel Richard, all we have to do is stop funding and militarily arming Israel with our hard earned American tax payer dollars, and stop using our veto power in the U.N. to cover up for Israel every time it violates or totally disregards international laws….. But than the current problem is that our government has been guilty of violating and totally disregarding international laws at times, such as in the war on Iraq, haven't we? It seems as though our government has been overlooking and covering up for Israel's violations in order to give our country a precedent for overlooking our own, while Israel points to our violations as an excuse for its violations.. Yet this does not change the fact that Israel is a liability that does not have veto power to use on our behalf, nor does it help fund our country and our military …
All we have to do is have our government divert US funding for Israel to the Palestinians as reparations….
Very good points. And I would like to add that the Zionist left which Rabbi Lerner represents is just a different form of the same problem for the Jews, not a solution… No matter how Zionist Jews decide to go about securing the Zionist, so-called Jewish, State of Israel, they are overlooking the fundamental flaw of the Zionist ideology, and no matter how they try to manipulate or present Zionism, it's core will always remain racist…..
"a spiritualist/moralist rather than an anarchist or some other self-appointed idiocy" richard "who else?" witty
@ fultro: "socio-paths seem always to rule in governments and business despite the best wishes of regular people with the best intentions" Atheistic, anti-spiritual, irreligious, secular-centered societies are inevitably going to produce, tolerate, and encourage dysfunctional, greedy governments and nasty, greedy business people. If one puts their faith in God or their own belief system above government (and most people do), then government needs to be cut back to only the essentials (police, national defense, city planning, etc) and let religious and other value systems take their course. How did the early, libertarian America designed by the Founders function so well for so long without government inserting its hand into everything? Religious institutions took care of what government has now co-opted. [cont'd]
[cont'd] And it is primarily nasty Christian-haters who have seen to it that Big Government has displaced Christianity as the ultimate moral authority. And I would anticipate that if government is itself displaced, America could function along the lines actualized in its early history by the Founders again. But whatever groups, secular or religious, that grow up in the absence of Big Government, they're going to be better than what we've got now. I think the best way to implement such a program would be vouchers, to wean Americans off of their dysfunctional and unhealthy government addiction. Vouchers used for schooling at the parents school of choice, (religious or otherwise) for example, with government setting standards for the three R's, and keeping its paws out of the rest of it. From liberal to conservative, anyone who has faith in their own belief system, and their own value system, should welcome such an opportunity.
Pfui. If it wasn't for Lend-Lease they'd be speaking German in Moscow right now. And then there's the opening of the Western Front. That's not to dismiss Steveb's excellent point about the contributions of everyone who fought, but there are such things as contributing causes and necessary causes, and in the defeat of Hitler America's efforts were the latter.
as if one had more than the other–anal Witty, the sheltered one–thanks to goys needing jobs and joining the US military
Thanks – there is much there to think about – I will stick to one point here: Was government somehow responsible for creating monopoly capitalism and the robber barons who not only created slave-like working conditions for many Americans (mostly Christian I would guess), but they pissed off other capitalists who couldn't compete and whose innovations were swallowed for the greater greed of the few on top. So how was it that by the 1950s the growing middle class got 40Hr weeks with pensions, better health care (for then), sick leaves, more opportunities for career advancement, etc. , and the economy seemed to be at the top of it's game worldwide – certainly by many people's standards a vast improvement over the free rein of the 19th cent/early 20th cent non-regulated monopolists. (con't)
Another brief example: growing up in the 50s / 60s I remember various rivers, lakes and beaches being absolute toxic cesspools – some of which literally exploded and certainly were unswimmable – not to mention the loss of wildlife and commercial fishing. To a great extent (there are new problems now) a lot of this was cleaned up and made habitable again. And this from where I stood did not look like the work of bleeding heart industrialists. So how did these changes occur? I appreciate your ideas about a more religious culture, and so given those conditions do you really believe that sociopaths will somehow be weeded out or will not be allowed into powerful positions to create the dystopia of greed and virtual slavery anyway ?
What about not providing any funding to either side for an interim period? Except for food and other necessities of life funneled through non-aligned actors. Public health in California is taking a beating; I expect people are dieing, if not dead, from lack of dental care – based on my experience when bare bones services were available. For awhile, I wonder if it would be possible to reduce all foreign aid to a minimum, until some of the holes in the 'safety net' of the nation, resulting from the Bush & CO. years, can be repaired.
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