Here is the video of the IDF shooting Bassem Ibrahim Abu Rahmah that I mentioned earlier:
Isabel Kershner has reported on the protest for the New York Times. She offers a version of Abu Rahmah's death "according to other demonstrators," but then counters this with a quote from an Israeli military spokeswoman who says "security forces had been trying to disperse a violent demonstration during which demonstrators threw stones and other objects." A reader who sent this on said "all she has to do is watch the video to see how [expletive] ridiculous this is." The reader added:
In the video the soldiers are strolling about casually, not ducking
rocks. There's no rock throwing visible. The troops are not behaving like they perceive themselves to be under threat. Yet, Kershner gives primacy to
the IDF's version: "An Israeli military spokeswoman said security
forces had been trying to disperse a violent demonstration during which
demonstrators threw stones and other objects." Two paragraphs later
she quotes activists, but no one about what happened in this specific
incident. Compare her to Ynet, who quotes an Israeli protester saying
no stones were thrown.
While it is possible that the protest could have been violent before this video began (although having been in Bil'in during a weekly protest, I doubt it), it is clear that it was not violent when Abu Rahmah was shot. This is the video that has been distributed by Reuters. Is is possible that Kershner didn't see it? Would she have qualified the Israeli military's false account if she had?
Reuters is a wire service with up-to-the-minute reports, and she reports for the NYT that pays for Reuters' service, and she didn't see the Reuters' notice that a video was available?
This is the kind of reporting that is making the NYT irrelevant. This web site is more careful than the NYT.
Is is possible that Kirshner didn't see it? Would she have qualified the Israeli military's false account if she had?
Simple answer that: yes. She knows which side she is working for.
Kershner is horrible, just like her counterpart, Ethan Bronner. (I renamed her Kershamner, and he Bomber.)
Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, they always, and I mean always, even with video footage, has to "counter" it with an Israeli official spokesman. They always want to paint that there is two sides and always two narratives (but never one truth such as this).
PS I fucking HATE watching videos like these, not because I don't care to see but I get so fucking pissed off and angry at what the fuck is happening and I KNOW that this type of shit happens every day, it may not always lead to a(n immediate) death but it is something so odious that I cannot grasp at the Palestinian reality. It makes me sick.
This is despicable.
I had a chance to speak with Shai Pollack not long ago. I tried to convince him that what he was doing was wrong. He admitted that it was fakery but thought the propaganda effect was more important. Now I hear this has happened. All I can think is that they pushed too far for some idiot like Pollack. It is a military restricted zone clearly marked. Try approaching a nuclear site in the US.
Or is it possible (perish the thought) that Kirshner is just a liar?
It is the village of Bi'lin. I'm sure the Warsaw Ghetto was a military restricted zone as well. Go back to hasbara class. You are making repulsive arguments.
@tree
"It is the village of Bi'lin. I'm sure the Warsaw Ghetto was a military restricted zone as well. Go back to hasbara class. You are making repulsive arguments."
They knew they were provoking the border guards and we do not know what happened moments before he was struck. There were clearly people inside the restricted boundary according to the film evidence shown. It was not inside the village as you falsely claim. Bloated hyperbole and ad hominems in place of an actual argument is what I consider repulsive.
Shorter LeFavour: might makes right.
Might makes right. NOT
So much of the entire situation is repulsive, continually. That is a large part of Israel's intent, surely?
Doesn't work, does it.
The wire fence is inside the village lands. It cuts the village's land off from the village's inhabitants. The Israeli Supreme Court has already acknowledged that it is Bi'lin land and directed the IDF to move the barrier but the IDF has not done so. So, the IDF is in violation of an Israeli Supreme Court directive. The fence should not be there, and the IDF soldiers should not be there. Firing a tear gas grenade canister point blank at someone's chest is not a riot control measure. It is murder. Especially if it is done in order to illegally deprive the rightful owners of the land their rightful access to that land.
And you ought to look up ad hominem. You either don't understand its meaning, or you do and are purposely misapplying it.
Michael LeFavour, good sarcasm. I think some here think you are serious.
No Iranian nukes or palestinian jihad will be the undoing of Israel, but the internet and cellular video.
True, Israel will still have a hard nucleus of apologists and masada troopers like Michael LeFavour or CB here but they are just laughable thugs of little interests.
What matters is the opinion of the people in Europe and US. And what an awakening it is!!!.
The revolution is on TV, after all, Dag. And on Blackberry, Twitter, etc.
Every time another Palestinian gets killed by IDF troopers firing tear gas grenades some Israel apologist pops up here to call the victims foolish or stupid or to suggest they deserve a Darwin Award. I personally admire anyone who stands up against an army trying to appropriate his land. And so do most people in most countries around the world. The few people here who are blaming the victim must know on some level that these vindictive killings of Palestinian villagers are a worldwide public relations disaster for Israel. (And if they don't they are the ones who deserve a Darwin Award).
@Margaret & Duscany
You know what REALLY bugs me ? That Israel has given the future anti-semites ammo for generations to come, and all our sons and daughter will have to hold up against a new "Führer in spe" will be progressive Jews like Philip and Adam here who had the courage and conviction (maybe chutzpah:-) to speak up agaist zionism.
Because that time will come. As sure as night follows day will future generations face new challenges from leaders who seek public support by finding something or somebody to hate, and jews have always been an easy target.
What matters is the opinion of the people in Europe and US. And what an awakening it is!!!.
Posted by: Dag Andersson | April 18, 2009 at 01:49 AM
Are you awake? America supports israel because the american people demand it. Antisemites like you don't need ammo as you invent so much of your protest. And then you pull out the classic zinger proving you are an antisemite – "As sure as night follows day will future generations face new challenges from leaders who seek public support by finding something or somebody to hate, and jews have always been an easy target."
And Europe? They are torn between trying to keep their muslim hordes peaceful and knowing their hearts are with Israel and against palistinian jihadis.
Chris Berel:
"And Europe? They are torn between trying to keep their muslim hordes peaceful and knowing their hearts are with Israel and against palistinian jihadis."
I was in Marseilles about 2 years ago on business. My wife wanted to go because she had never been to France. What a mistake. She should have stayed home. The Muslim gangs have made the city into hell. You can't walk the streets. The native French are intimidated and terrified. I was supposed to be there for 5 days. We left for Paris after a day and a half.
Wishful thinking Chris
The American people don't demand Palestinian suffering, but are kept in the dark. Which was my point.
The internet and cellular video will enlighten the American public of the true nature of Zionism.–>reveal it's ugly face. Until now the Zionists have put their faith in deniability and been given the benefit of the doubt. Mostly among Christian who so desperately want to believe. This has changed because of the media revolution. I don’t know how much longer the Zionists are able to stem the Tide , but it is happening right before your eyes. . Embrace yourself-you are heading towards rough waters.
:-D
I see Chris Berel has ditched his new goy alias ("Michael LeFavou") and returned to his most regular one to make his usual BS claim that the "american" (Freudian slip) people "demand"
support for Israel, right or wrong. Next he picks up his default weapon: "Antisemites like you."
Followed by saying its anti-semitic to voice concern over people like himself providing
living stereotypes for true anti-semites to point to. Lastly, he invents out of more thin air
his knowledge of European hearts. He should have talked to the ADL. While Europe is
trying to deal with the friction that comes with a growing segment of their population being
Muslim, this in no way means, and world news constantly shows, that Europeans, having more
access to facts on the ground than afforded by the USA's one-sided MSM, are very much protesting Israeli activity, and have been for a long time. True they don't like the jihadis, but
they view Israel as the number one threat to world peace, with its helper, the USA coming in at number two. Polls after poll shows this state of affairs.
… and all our sons and daughter will have to hold up against a new "Führer in spe" will be progressive Jews like Philip and Adam here who had the courage and conviction (maybe chutzpah:-) to speak up agaist zionism.
I don't think the situation is that dire. Philip and Adam are leaders, and they awaken more followers and inspire new leaders. Perhaps I am a wild-eyed optimist, but I don't think we will recognize the political landscape ten years from now. I think colonial Zionists will be properly blamed, and appropriately embarrassed and chastened, and that enough Jews will be widely seen as being opposed to colonial extremism that opprobrium will not fall on the Jewish community as a whole.
I saw this incident on Al Jazeera last night. It was a longer and better quality clip. No violence or stone throwing. Honest. As Phil asserts, perhaps some later on.
Adolescent AOF Ziopuke being trigger happy again, nothing else…
I saw this incident on Al Jazeera last night.
I would like to see the Al Jazeera video. Do you have a link? The news as such convinced me, as did the photo, the video somehow doesn't. Actually, this will make some here hate me. Wouldn't I look much more closely at the wound of a friend, had he been shot? And wouldn't I want to document it in a close up, if I document it at all. Maybe not. But wouldn't I care more about him, see if I can do something to stop the blood. Although? The photo looked more real to me.
But then a US prof in film sciences once told me that our perception is trained by movies and that we somehow don't recognize the real not staged event. It feels unreal to us. Admittedly I don't have much experience with these matters.
Soundtrackwise, it seems, the same person that shouts before is shot. Is anybody around that can tell us what he shouts?
Leaders with an antisemitic following. Looks good on their resumes.
LeaNder,
I'm not sure if this is the same video that Gert is talking about,but I found this footage that was part of a longer Al Jazeera report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_OK3_wwPHk&feature=fvsr
According to the interview on Al Jazeera, Bassem Abu Rahmeh was shouting that it was a peaceful demonstration with women and children and international activists just before he was shot.
I think your film prof is right. First off, there is a strong tendency to stop looking through the viewfinder when a shocking incident occurs. Likewise there is a first tendency to freeze in shock and disbelief at such incidents.
Shorter Jacqueline_Hyde, ignorance is bliss.
@tree
"The wire fence is inside the village lands. It cuts the village's land off from the village's inhabitants. The Israeli Supreme Court has already acknowledged that it is Bi'lin land and directed the IDF to move the barrier but the IDF has not done so. So, the IDF is in violation of an Israeli Supreme Court directive. The fence should not be there, and the IDF soldiers should not be there."
Maybe the case is on appeal? When it gets removed it will be safe to approach military restricted zones. Until then it is nothing but a cheap publicity stunt gone wrong. If he is even dead.
"Firing a tear gas grenade canister point blank at someone's chest is not a riot control measure. It is murder."
It wasn't fired point blank. The guy was on top of a hill yards away. You have obviously never fired tear gas before. It is not something marksmen train for accuracy with. The fault is entirely on the Arabs for violating the law. Try as you may to wring the last bit of propaganda out it. Shooting a car full of little girls to death and their 8 months pregnant mother is murder, so is throwing cripples into the sea, chopping teenagers up with axes, and bashing the brains of small children to stop them from screaming over their murdered father.
"Especially if it is done in order to illegally deprive the rightful owners of the land their rightful access to that land."
Do you suppose any Jews get fair trials in Gaza? Or anywhere else in the ME for that matter? Kafir are not allowed to testify in sharia court.
"And you ought to look up ad hominem. You either don't understand its meaning, or you do and are purposely misapplying it."
What is saying I am standing in a pile of horse shit? Or telling me to go back to hasbara class? or describing my arguments as repulsive? Just curious.
@ Dag Andersson
"No Iranian nukes or palestinian jihad will be the undoing of Israel, but the internet and cellular video.
True, Israel will still have a hard nucleus of apologists and masada troopers like Michael LeFavour or CB here but they are just laughable thugs of little interests.
What matters is the opinion of the people in Europe and US. And what an awakening it is!!!."
I thought there was a policy of no personal attacks, but I'm cool with it. I even prefer to just get right down to the name calling sometimes. I take abuse stoically for the most part, but I can dish it out too.
Internet and video will not undue Israel, all it will do is make fools of a bunch of misguided partisan hacks. Anyone with half a functioning brain cell sees right through the propaganda.
@ Duscany
The Darwin reward goes to those who confuse the victims with the perpetrators. The death was avoidable by not approaching the fence. Not creating a circus environment where the IDF gets provoked into doing something camera worthy.
@ Citizen
"I see Chris Berel has ditched his new goy alias ("Michael LeFavou") and returned to his most regular one to make his usual BS claim that the "american" (Freudian slip) people "demand"
support for Israel, right or wrong."
I am not Chris Berel, nor do I know him. He seems like one of the few that actually know something here, so I would be inclined to want to know him.
"While Europe is
trying to deal with the friction that comes with a growing segment of their population being
Muslim, this in no way means, and world news constantly shows, that Europeans, having more
access to facts on the ground than afforded by the USA's one-sided MSM, are very much protesting Israeli activity, and have been for a long time"
They are also coincidentally very dependent on jihadi oil.
With over a billion Muslims flapping their traps and pointing fingers at Israel, the UN drafting one hostile joke resolution after another against Israel, and a plethora of leftist gas bags joining the chirping chorus of hate I'm not sure how anyone can say with a straight face that the media is biased against the (sniff) poor Arabs.
Yet everyone of Phil's Phools constantly whine about media bias.
Re: "The Darwin reward goes to those who confuse the victims with the perpetrators."
Exactly. We all know the perps are the Israelis & their helpmates born with US poor goy $ support, those kept ignorant, Or do you think the arabs born in the English Mandate of Palestine , and their children, are the enemy because they were born Arabs?
"I am not Chris Berel, nor do I know him. He seems like one of the few that actually know something here, so I would be inclined to want to know him."
Chris is adamant about his beliefs that this land is attributed to him by God. Yay.
God told me my shit was gold. Yay. Beliefs mean everything.
Oooooh the UN. A lot of good that does. And with all the dependencies of Arab oil, it really hasn't done them any good. They can't even get a nuclear weapon. (Sniff).
@ Florida Goy
"We all know the perps are the Israelis & their helpmates born with US poor goy $ support, those kept ignorant, Or do you think the arabs born in the English Mandate of Palestine , and their children, are the enemy because they were born Arabs?"
I don't believe all Arabs are the enemy. There have been voices preaching tolerance from time to time, of course those have also been murdered as collaborators by Haj Amin, Terrorfat, Yasin and their ilk. I blame the Muslim Brotherhood mostly, because even if Hamas wanted to make peace with Israel it would need permission first, permission that will not come as long as genocide enablers like this blog exist to give the Islamists hope they can prevail over the Jews. When you claim "we" all know the Jews are the perps, do you normally speak for others?
Odd you feel it is US money that aids Israel, I feel it is US money that holds Israel back from doing what is right.
@ Joshua
"Chris is adamant about his beliefs that this land is attributed to him by God. Yay."
I'm not religious, but I understand the importance Mr Berel places on the land. You can make jokes about it all you like, but there is no denying that there is a spiritual connection between observant Jews and the land of Israel. Conversely, there is no denying that the Muslims only have a connection to the Dome and the Mosque from convenience to oppose the Jews with, nothing more.
@Michael LeFavour
Palestine Parceled up according to religious affiliation? A hardcore fundamentalist: 5 acres. A poor dirt farmer who care for little in heaven but needs access to his olive trees on the far side of the Apartheid wall have no right whatsoever. Regardless how many generations his family has nurtured and worked the land. What an extraordinary idea. How Jewish. Sad thing is that your ethocentricity is so extreme that you are unable to understand how revolting your claim is.
Fact is that all 3 monotheistic religions have equal connections to the area. And above their claim , preceding all others are the inhabitants of the land. They lived there when Abraham came with his Flock. They lived there when the Jews visited Egypt and Babylon,and they lived there under the Egyptian, Persian, Assyrian, Greek , Roman ,Byzantine , muslim . Christian and ottoman rule. And they will live there when the Zionists finally moves on to other pastures. True, they don’t have a lobby in Washington or a spokesman in a southern pulpit. They are the salt of the earth and worth ten times people like you and me.
Religion? I guess some are muslims, some christians and a few are jews. But belief should always be a personal matter,so that is best left outside politics.
@Dag Anderson
The need to guard against genocide is a hard pill to swallow when it is those Jews, huh? A safe and secure sanctuary where Jews are free to simply live is something you oppose apparently. The question is why? It must give you the creeps just thinking of all those free Jews walking around unbowed to their former masters. Of course they are confined on the inside of an apartheid wall in the tiny bantustan the rest of the racist Arabs have confined them to on fear of death, but at least they are alive for awhile longer until your friends catch up with the rest of the modern world militarily. How does it feel being an enabler of genocide?
All three religions do not have an equal connection. If this were true why is Jerusalem not mentioned once in the Quran? Surely if it had the importance you ignorantly claim the author of that hate manual would not have left it out. I suggest you learn something before trying to take me on, kid. You seem unable to empathize with anyone outside your very small and distasteful little world.
"rely if it had the importance you ignorantly claim the author of that hate manual would not have left it out. I suggest you learn something before trying to take me on, kid. You seem unable to empathize with anyone outside your very small and distasteful little world."
There is something amusingly self-contradictory about the same person writing all those sentences one after the other.
@MlF
I wouldn't call Israel a "A safe and secure sanctuary" for the Jews. Quite the opposite. Both at the personal level and as a quasi-ethnic group Israel has proven to be hazardous for the Jews.
Neither was the justification /or motivation for Zionism to find a safe heaven. You "ex post facto" argument is just a red herring, and nobody buys into it So in using it, all you accomplish is to demonstrate fundamental lack integrity and history.
Why don't you read "The Iron Wall" by Jabotinsky and see for yourself ?
As for your assertion:
I find myself puzzled. I've read a lot of history, and just can't remember Jews bowing their heads to anything or anyone.
True, as Lenni Brenner has proven in his book Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis was there an extensive cooperation between Nazism and SOME Jews, but that fact only underscores the anti-Semitic nature of Zionism.
@ Witty's anonymous critic
Is anyone capable of backing up their ignorant statements here? I don't have any more time available than the next guy, but I have never knowingly left a valid question unanswered. His premise is that all three religions have an "equal" connection to the land. If it were true it would explain some of why he holds the views he does, but since it doesn't hold true by any stretch of the imagination it is false logic and it makes him ignorant. Which being ignorant is OK, it is when you are informed and lie to advance a cause that I lose all respect for a speaker.
The Islamic connection to the land is non-existant. There are certain sites such as the Al-Aqsa's Mosque and the dome of the rock that have been inflated in value as a weapon against Jews, but the entire land itself is only holy to the Jews. As I have stated before, the Jewish holy city of Jerusalem is not mentioned even once in the Quran.
Why the myth? Early in Muhammad's career as a so called prophet he had very few followers, he had been creating one nice verse after another trying to convince everyone he was a great guy, but to no avail, to a megalomaniac this is unacceptable, so he ordered what few followers he had (mostly a handful of his own family members) to pray towards Jerusalem like the Jews did in hopes of attracting the them to his cause. When they rejected him, he adopted the old pagan direction of praying towards the Kaaba stone in Mecca. He got himself into trouble as well creating what are called the Satanic versus, when in his desperation for followers he said that other Gods could intercede for man to enter heaven, didn't work, and almost backfired on him with the suddenly confused followers he had. When these pagans also rejected him and opposed his intrusion he gave up being nice and simply murdered them on the pretext that they were barring him from the Kaaba stone. This was the end to the tolerant versus in the Quran that all the apologists like to site as representing Islam, from that point on it was rape, slavery, and genocide until the Arabian peninsula was cleansed of infidels, but for about 18 months or so the figurehead of the cult prayed towards Jerusalem. Not much of a connection, but I have heard it argued by those that know nothing that it is important to note. My counter point is that Muhammad was obviously aware that Jerusalem had significance, but since it had no significance for Islam he did not bother mentioning it even once in the Quran.
So what is the Al-Aqsa Mosque? The Al-Aqsa Mosque did not exist at the time, nor did the great temple, the last Jewish temple was destroyed by Emperor Titus. In fact it wasn't built until 50 or so years after he died. Which is important to keep in mind because the entire foundation of why Muslim apologists claim the Dome of the Rock is so important to Islam is because Muhammad flew to heaven on the back of a flying donkey from the far mosque aka Al-Aqsa. Since there was no far mosque in Jerusalem it couldn't have been there, but when you believe in magic powers, flying donkeys, visiting heaven, talking with angels, and meeting God himself, those are just pesky details.
So how did the far mosque is in Jerusalem fable get started? Along comes Caliph Omar in 638. He sieges Jerusalem, captures it, throws the Jews out, implements humiliating restrictions on the Mondoweiss fan-boys, I mean dhimmis, and discovers the very place where Muhammad tied is trusty steed Al-Burak (which also had a tail like a peacock and the torso of a woman) to the Western Wall. He built a small mosque there on the southern part of the Temple Mount, where Al-Aqsa Mosque now stands, so that the worshipers faced only Mecca. This mosque had no significance until 682 when Caliph Abd al-Malik got cut off from Mecca and needed a place to direct pilgrims to. He chose Jerusalem and rediscovered that the far mosque was sitting on the Temple Mount and the very rock where Muhammad stood was found. He built the Dome of the Rock and hoped for the best. Unfortunately Muslims outside Malik's influence did not buy the story. It took a few more centuries for it to be revived, coincidentally (???) because Christian crusaders were in possession of a back water provincial town of little importance to Muslims called Jerusalem and a Kurd named Saladin needed something to convince his army to die for. Voila! The Al-Aqsa mosque needs to be liberated. Of course once the crusaders were gone the mosque fell into obscurity once again for the next 700 years until…you guessed it, another threat to Islam! The Jews are trying to destroy the third holiest site in Islam, quick fix those broken roof tiles, pull the weeds from the cracks, paint the dome silver, no make it gold…kill the Jews, murder murder murder…
The truth is Jerusalem is not a holy city to Islam or Christianity, but it is a holy city, all of it, to Jews. The Muslim claims would be comical if they weren't being used to justify murder, genocide, and jihad against the Jews. It is up to all reasoning people to see things in context instead of accepting blindly. Anyone stating that the three faiths have an "equal" affinity for the land is either a liar, ignorant, or a dupe.
There is something amusingly self-contradictory about a person attempting to ridicule the truth as if it were not.
@ Daf Anderson
btw, I probably wouldn't like you in person, only judging from what little I have read of your views, but I think Dag is a cool name.
"I wouldn't call Israel a "A safe and secure sanctuary" for the Jews. Quite the opposite. Both at the personal level and as a quasi-ethnic group Israel has proven to be hazardous for the Jews."
That is liberal speak for passing the buck from the guilty to the demonized group of choice, in this case the Jews. It is not the fault of the Jews that others have chosen to wage war and genocide against them, and until the threat is gone there is a justifiable need for them to not have to rely on the good will of others to defend them. Germany was a modern enlightened state right up until the point where enough Nazis convinced the critical mass that they must be destroyed. This seems to be the goal of Mondoweiss and I can't understand why, which is why I am trying to get to the bottom of it now.
"Neither was the justification /or motivation for Zionism to find a safe heaven. You "ex post facto" argument is just a red herring, and nobody buys into it"
That is another false assertion by you. The need for a Jewish sanctuary was debated and discussed vigorously, then acted on at San Remo. Whether your "ex post facto" rejection of the reasoning is accepted or not today has no value in determining whether Jews had the legal right to immigrate to their ancestral homeland or not. They did, and it was codified in a legally binding treaty called the Mandate for Palestine.
"So in using it, all you accomplish is to demonstrate fundamental lack integrity and history."
My integrity is not in doubt. Your flawed analysis of historical fact is though. The fact remains that Jews were discriminated against and the subject of pogroms and genocide like no other people in history. If you harbor so much hate for them that you can not emphasize with their plight as a people, I don't know what to say.
"Why don't you read "The Iron Wall" by Jabotinsky and see for yourself ?"
Why don't you quote the relevant page and chapter to make your point for me. You would never suggest I read something as evidence you have not read yourself would you?
"I find myself puzzled. I've read a lot of history, and just can't remember Jews bowing their heads to anything or anyone."
Maybe you should try reading something other than the pages of Storm Front then. I hear the canard all the time that Jews and Christians lived in peace with Muslims for centuries…sure, so long as Jews knew their place. Slaves and slave owners lived peacefully in the Antebellum South as long as they knew their place as well. (notice how two violent supremacist groups arose upon liberation of the the two respected underclass, the KKK and the Fedayin/Hamas).
I don't even know where to start with this one. Your ignorance is legendary if you can say with a straight face that you have never read about Jews "bowing their heads to anyone or anything" We could start with the Hebrew slaves of Pharaoh's Egypt or we can skip over the Roman Emperor Caligula outlawing Jewish practices on pain of death, the sack and rape of Jerusalem and subsequent enslavement of many Jewish survivors, or we can go right to the source of the current war against the Jews and ask what happened to the Jews of Medina? How did the figurehead of the Islamic cult treat the Jews of his day? The Banu Quraiza were captured, checked for pubic hair, offered a chance to convert to Islam, and either beheaded or enslaved to serve a life of sexual servitude or be raised as a Muslim.
More to the point in Jerusalem and the land of Israel, during the so called periods of peace and tolerance the inhabitants of Jerusalem suffered humiliating restrictions. Early on they were forced to wear black turbans and a block of wood in the shape of a calf to remind them of the golden calf. They had to wear some distinguishing mark in the bath houses. They had many restrictions and had to pay to keep their faith, be killed, or convert. Forced conversion and ethnic cleansing happened at the whims of one master or another. A Muslim ruler named Al-Hakim ordered that the Jews and Christians had to accept Islam or emigrate to Byzantine lands, so many converted under the draconian pressure. History is clear about centuries of Muslim, rape, pillage, genocide and forced conversions of Christians and Jews, but Dag hasn't ever read about an oppressed Jew, and we don't even need to talk about Europe Russian pogroms, Nazi Holocaust, the Propcols of the Eldars of Zion, blood libel, etc.. do we?
Read this article it applies to Jews and Christians…
RE: "Odd you feel it is US money that aids Israel, I feel it is US money that holds Israel back from doing what is right.
Posted by: Micheal LeFavour"
So, Chris aka Michael LeFavour & other assorted assumed gentile names, you agree with me that
we should cut off all aid to Israel? If not, why not, especially since you want Israel to do what is right?
Of course Americans could use that money, no question… An added bonus, no?
@ the anonymous entity calling itself Citizen
"So, Chris aka Michael LeFavour & other assorted assumed gentile names, you agree with me that we should cut off all aid to Israel?"
Absolutely. I endorse cutting off all aid to Israel as long as we cut off all aid to Israel's Arab enemies like Egypt and the so called Palestinians, which the likes of you never seem to mention a word about. The problem is the arms industry, not the Jewish lobby. Correct me if I am wrong, but Israel is required to spend 80% of the military aid on American products. They make their own tanks and small arms, want they have not developed is an aerospace industry. If the US were to cut the funding, Americans would lose jobs and profit, and Israel would be free of American meddling. You assume Israel will be hurt because you hate. I assume Israel will make do and will be free to make tough choices for Israel's self preservation over American interest.
Btw, I use my real name even though I have been threatened with death on several occasions. I am not hiding behind some ridiculous moniker, Citizen.