Max Blumenthal's latest video has created much controversy and debate that we'll try to cover here on the site. F.E.Felson sent us one response:
Not surprisingly, the skeptical response to Max Blumenthal’s latest video has been one of casual dismissal: OK, so he went and found some drunk frat boys hanging out together and filmed them making crude racial remarks. Not pleasant stuff, but not a huge deal, either.
“Man listen, hand me a fifth of Henny, a video camera, and an hour, and I'll show you Negroes claiming that God's messenger lives in a space-ship orbiting the earth,” Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote in his Atlantic blog.
Others have drawn a parallel to Sacha Baron Cohen’s 2006 movie “Borat,” in which a group of inebriated fraternity brothers from the University of South Carolina yuk it up about Jews, blacks and slavery. It wouldn’t be fair to call them representative of American society, the thinking goes, so why should we read anything more into what a handful of boozy Israelis and American Jews in Jerusalem say?
Well, I have one suggestion why we should: because the man who is Israel’s new foreign minister, and who very nearly became its new prime minister this spring, is an absolute, unqualified bigot. Avigdor Lieberman’s rise (along with Benjamin Netanyahu’s resurgence) is confirmation that the mood in Israel (and among its ardent American supporters) toward the Arab and Muslim worlds has darkened dramatically. His rhetoric is as nakedly racist as George Wallace’s was in America 40 years ago—and he is now Israel’s ambassador to the world.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that the basic attitudes and instincts that the ignorant, drunk racists in the video express are products of the same culture—in Israel and among its American backers—that has given rise to Lieberman, a culture that de-humanizes Arabs and Muslims and vilifies anyone (especially a black American with a Muslim middle name) who would dare challenge the dominant “Israel good/Arabs bad” narrative. Their parents’ and grandparents’ generations mask the rawness of these attitudes with sterile-sounding terms like “demographic problem” and “security fence,” but beneath it all is the same basic de-humanization that these kids are expressing. I suspect this video is a symptom of that culture.
But who knows -- maybe some of these kids’ parents are actually enlightened on the Israeli/Palestinian question, and would be appalled to hear what their sons are saying. Maybe this really is nothing more than drunk guys trying to out-macho each other—just like in “Borat.” But even if that’s the case, we are still left with the fact that one of the most powerful and popular elected officials in Israel embraces the same racism that they are voicing. And unlike this video, his rise can’t be explained away as some isolated, meaningless aberration.
What would be interesting to see is a follow up vid taken in London (or any european city with a high muslim population) and ask questions like:
"Does Israel have a right to exist?"
"Do the Jews have a right to a homeland?"
"Whose fault is the current middle east crisis?"
the answers could well semi-justify the pain and abandonment Israelis feel with regards to the outside world.
Joseph Dana, Max Partner, was interviewed by the NPR Show in Florida about the video: "the interview begins from minute 40." http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/ Magnes Zionist tells us he is a former student of his, that's how I found Joseph's blog Ibn Ezra: http://themagneszionist.blogspot.com/
Some of the dismissals of Max and Joseph's video have not been casual at all, but rather have been really snarly and hostile. It does look like Max and Joseph dragged the skeleton out from the closet and this explains the viral reactions. Andy Serwer attacks Max personally here; calls him "deeply manipulative" and says that the polls contradict that young Jewish people might be racist. http://ibnezra.wordpress.com/ Serwer is wrong and, of course, chose not to publish my detailed comment explaining that many polls in fact support the video, i.e., that many young Jewish/Israeli people suffer from severe superiority/entitlement complexes and are racist. I can't reconstruct my comment but here is one poll indicating that 75% of Jewish students believe that Arabs are "uneducated, uncivilized and unclean." http://ibnezra.wordpress.com/ I went through Joseph Dana's website last night and found it really heartbreaking. I would not be surprised if they throw Joseph Dana in jail pretty soon. http://ibnezra.wordpress.com/
They demonize each other. Those that are solely critical (or worse) towards the other, each demonize. The way to oppose demonization is to stop doing it.
It was a BIG mistake on the part of Mondoweiss to allow your name to be associated with such triviality.
Completely agree with the crux of that post. And I'd add that I am, unfortunately, not surprised that we have yet another piece unabashedly making light of jewish racism…
If the video was of non-Jewish white kids anywhere in the world, flaunting macho white pride in such a stilted way, would it make the MSM news, and if so, how would it be construed by anchor pundits? A similar question has been raised in the USA MSM regarding the Supreme Court candidate's self-determined ethnic-feminist special wisdom. And, remember Obama's twenty-year preacher mentor? Has anyone ever run a clip of the hilltop youth in loud-mouth action in the MSM, rather than merely on YouTube?
Never to expose it?
Trivial?
The parallel with Borat is spot-on. I lived many years in the American south, and upon moving to the North was constantly berated for racism, meaning not that I ever said anything racist or manifested racist attitudes, but merely that I happened to have been born in a part of the country in which slavery and Jim Crow had been tolerated or defended. (In fact, I have seen and still see much worse racism in the part of the northeast in which I now live, but that's a separate observation.) When the movie came out, these attitudes and remarks increased tenfold. In particular I and those near whom I had grown up were derided time and again over Borat, as if we suthreners were all a pack of KKK members just itching to hang a couple of Jews as soon as we'd gotten a few whiskeys in us. (It made no difference to these folks, of course, that I'd never met a Jew until moving north, nor that I'd never heard anything spoken of Jews growing up except in terms of the greatest sympathy and respect.) I will say that I did my fair share of partying back in the day, and that I drank a lot. Never, though, did racist remarks about 'white power' or 'niggers' form themselves in my mind, much less leave my lips. I don't think in those terms, and I sure as hell don't speak in those terms. That's why it's quite a comeuppance for all the folks, among whom are many northeastern Jews, who've ripped on the south for its racism, to view members of their own enlightened social groups, having a few too many and giving themselves the Mel Gibson treatment. Wow. Cheers.
If booze was truth serum for Mel Gibson, isn't it truth serum in Jerusalem too?
Typical Palaprop. Israel's absurd electoral process gives far too much power to minority parties, like Lieberman';s, therefore drunk kids speak for all of Israel? If someone filmed a bunch of drunk Arabs kids venting their hatred of Jews would Mondoweiss show it? Of course not.
Look, Witless is equating ONCE AGAIN. There are plenty of examples of blatant Jewish racism against Arabs. We don't need videos of inebriated frat boys and Jewish American Princesses to see the truth come out about these fascists. And if the Jewish intelligentsia is all up in arms over this video, let them excuse Mel Gibson for his drunken tirade in which he said Jews are the causes for all wars – which in the context of the Lebanon 2006 war in which Israel PURPOSEFULLY killed civilians (1000) and wreaked PURPOSEFUL damage on South Lebanon's civilian infrastructure, which is confirmed by the US Army War College study and the HRW report – is much more reasonable in relation to the comments of a bunch of drunk upper-middle class American Jews. Only a dishonest pig and fascist like Witty will try to equate here ONCE AGAIN. That's his tactic.
Too bad you can't equate Arab racism and Jewish racism. We've seen studies reported in Haaretz and YNet which show the predictable results (for ANYONE who has a grasp on history and understands the relationship between Colonist and Colonized/Oppressor and Oppressed) – it's JEWISH youth who are overwhelmingly racist and hateful towards Palestinians – rather than the reverse. That speaks volumes about the civility of the Palestinians and their moral resolve and it shows the predictable conclusion about Jewish identity in a post-Zionist Western body politic. This hatefulness is so unsurprising. Just read Teddy Roosevelt's memoirs and his comments on the savages. And furthermore, considering Jewish Zionists stole Palestine from the Palestinians and committed mass atrocities all the way to the present and ongoing – WHILE at the same time shoving the Holocaust down the goyim's throat, the underlying characteristic of JEWISH racism and JEWISH supremacy is hypocrisy and sanctimony.
Again, there's no reason to over-emphasise Lieberman. These attitudes are a reflection of Livni's Israel.
Stahl you are an idiot, if you say you can't equate the two you are just lost man. You think the Arab youth just love the Jews and are dying to sign a peace accord with them? Civility of Palestinians? Are you joking? Those kids were dumb fucks in that video, hands down. But saying Palestinians wouldn't say the exact same thing is just ridiculous.
… dishonest pig and fascist like Witty … Strahl, you really need to cool it with the name-calling. You could have just as easily expressed your point without it.
It's sick of you to say Lieberman is an unqualified bigot! WTF!? If you want immigration into your country – you're good. If you want it out of your country – you're bad. That's your logic. Beyond brilliant. If you want people living in your country to pledge alleigance to it – as we do in the Good ol'US of A, then you're automatically bad? Bigot yourself – more like it.
Does Blumenthal or Adam Horowitz have the courage to go door to door and actually talk (and listen) to people?
You know, persuasion.
They were mostly Americans, and are also a reflection of American Judaism. Hopefully they represent the attitudes of only a very small portion, akin to the Haggards and Swaggarts of American Christianity.
As for Israeli crimes – sure, I'll admit to them, BUT first you admit to the bullshit that is Islam, and the oppression, and destruction it has caused. Israeli crimes pale in comprasion with the barbarity of Islam. Now if you want to join the apologist Islamist wagon – then I can't tell the difference between you and a KKK member, or a Nazi member – because if you want to talk Nazis – that's where Islam is. Radical settlers, have been rebuked for burning palestinians fields in teh West Bank – castigated a day after the incident. Show me one example, of a Mufti, a Muslim naybob, censuring the Slaves of Allah, after they let-loose. one example!
As this blogger said about another piece of 'controversial' material: "shocking statements must be covered up". I don't agree. We're all in this boat together.
Hey Einstein, read what I said. Did I say there was NO ARAB RACISM? No, I KNOW there IS! I said you cannot EQUATE the two. Racism comes from somewhere. Even the Jews have legitimate grievances against the Palestinians. I am judging the relative injustices and the nature of the racism that exists amongst both groups. And JUST like I said, the studies show that A) Jews in Israel (youth) are more racist than the Palestinians towards Jews AND There is more racism and attacks on Arabs and Muslims today than on Jews. Those are the facts. I'm not saying no one hates Jews. I'm not saying Arabs do not hate Jews. But we need to judge A) frequency and B) the nature of the hatred. No form of racism comes from nowhere and is just spontaneous. There are reasons why we think the way we think. There is some truth to it all. It's racism when you judge a person before knowing them or judge a whole group of people for the actions of a group within the group. When you second-guess people without evidence. Etc.
Here are the studies: http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3... http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3... http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3... http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3... http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3...
The kid in the video says, "My grandma's (Auschwitz tattoo) number was 1268493" Tattoo numbers generally went up to 20000 at Auschwitz, and then the numbers were reused. If you're going to use the Holocaust as an emotional shield to defend Israel, it's probably a good idea to get the details right. source: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&...
That's why everyone is so mad at Max. He is breaking the rules. Isn't covering up the truth what the AIPAC letter to Obama was all about? Everything must be kept private! No telling the truth in public! By the way, with regard to the so-called "secret deal" for Israel to keep expanding its settlements, Hillary Clinton just announced that there was no deal, full stop. In other words, she has issued a public burn notice on Israel as a fabricator. Ouch. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti... (Not surprisingly, the Washington Post is still saying, "But Elliott Abrams says we did too have a secret deal." Liars.)
is racism a problem in israel? yes. is taking a video of drunks a good way of uncovering racism? no. is fast eddy's column of any value? i'll let you decide. but anybody who includes the line regarding lieberman: "who very nearly became its (israel's) prime minister this spring" is obviously not careful about his use of the english language. lieberman received 15 seats in the parliament, a little more than half of what netanyahu and livni's parties received (27 and 28 respectively). such a statement is akin to saying in 1984 regarding mondale that he very nearly became president. it is nonsense and one would wish that writers would edit out the nonsense before publishing their words. or is the blogworld just a bathroom wall on which to scribble graffiti.
Is Judaism "bullshit" Einstein thought so. Your religion is a tired joke for 3 year olds and your country is a racist garbage scow. Face it and quit pointing fingers
I'll say it again. It's ONE thing to show teenagers acting like racist idiots in this country or that country. The effect is completely different though, when the country in question has it's entire country engaged in a program of ethnic cleansing, kicking in people's doors and throwing them into the street to favor one ethnic group. The kids in Max's video are not anti-authority. They are PRO-authority. The are Hitler youth—loyal to the israeli establishment. They are NOT outsiders. That is what is crucial.
The settler scum are PROTECTED and EGGED ON by the IDF according to Ha'aretz and every other source. You're a miserable liar.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afric... The plight of the Coptic Christians in Egypt is shameful? Weiss' dream is an Arab run Israel/Palestine with the Jews reduced to dhimmis. Much like the Coptic's and every other minorities in a Muslim states.
Ethnic cleansing? What are there 10 times as many Arabs as before they were ethnically cleansed?
The Blumenthal-Dana video was posted on The Huffington Post . . . and now it's been taken down! Feeling the hate over at HuffPo . . .
The vast majority of non-immigrant Americans disagree with the immigration situation, and we are called racists and bigots for our opinions. The problem is that in the United States, the people who shove Israel down our throats also shove immigration and multiculturalism down our throats. I understand that the Palestinians are the victims, and that Palestinian victimhood isn't the result of warm feelings and a reluctance to use or suport violence on the part of Israelis and their American supporters. While I disagree with what has been done to the Palestinians, Israel is not my concern any more than any other land dispute anywhere else. I also know that American support and intererence on Israel's behalf have made the situation far worse than it should have ever been. Americans now have an elite that runs roughshod over the views and needs of Americans on internal and external isues, which is an ugly situation that can't last forever, and could likely be disasterous for everyone involved.
thedhimmi: Do you deny the ethnic cleansing of about 725,000 Arabs from Palestine in 1948 – 1948 and another subsequent 250,000 in 1967? If so, then you're a Naqba denier, not dissimilar to a Holocaust denier. Perhaps you'd have preferred plain genocide to ethnic cleansing? End of Palestinian question?
Quit picking on DIM. It's part of the New Way.
Doesn't matter . . . "secret"deal or letter deal . . . George W Bush and (especially) Elliot Abrams have no authority to give a special deal to Israel to build settlements. Sheesh . . . was GWB an "honest broker in the region" or "Israel's lawyer?"
Have any Nakba deniers been jailed yet? I wonder when that day will come?
Let me put it this way. Had it been an Arab or Muslim in the same sitaution saying something anti-Semitic, what do you think the reaction of mr dhimmi et al. would be? What would your reaction have been? The phrase Islamofascism comes to mind.
That day may come when instead of imprisoning people from the Holy Land Foundation, we start indicting American leaders for sponsoring illegal wars, racism and oppression in Palestine. Euro leaders must be considered active accomplices, at the very least. And the Arab League (In League with Israel since Time Immemorial) shouldn't get off scott free either…
The Arabs in Israel aren't immigrants, they have every right to be there, which is why Lieberman calling for their expulsion bigoted. If the Palestinian refugees were allowed to return, they wouldn't be immigrants, they have every right to reside in the land they once lived. The US makes people pledge allegiance to the state as a whole, a secular state than includes everyone. An Israeli oath would force the Israeli-Arabs to accept Israel as a Jewish state (i.e. not for them) and would force them to support their country in wars against their own people. That is bigoted and racist
No, Weiss' dream is a secular democratic Israel/Palestine run by Jews and Arabs together.
Is there any reason why the hasbara crowd use the same arguments over and over again? I'm getting bored of pointing out how illogical they all are.
It goes without saying that Palestinians aren't immigrants in Israel.
Very trivial. Its a frat party. Worse is said here.
The fat faced frat boys in the RV in 'Borat' represent raw upper middle class American values. The drunken young adult Israeli Americans and American Israelis represent raw Zionist values.
Agreed. But they lied about it on top. That the Government of Israel are publicly tagged as fabricators is quite important on its own. The presumption of dishonesty should apply in order to undo all of the fraudulent property transfers of Palestinian territory.
Hard to know what anyone thinks. You don't know. Hard to know what anyone will do in the future. You don't know.
Thats what they represent to you.
I agree with Adam. The main point is Israel has a government just like those kids. If George Wallace had been president when the first black kids entered a white school do you think he would have sent the National Guard to protect them? No, he would have let the white racist have them.
800,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed in 1948 you freak. Read a book for once. The population issue does not matter. If you haven't noticed, the JEWISH population increased too. Goddamn moron.
Uh no Witless. We have studies on how racist Israeli youth are and this video is further proof. Stop trying to whitewash your Nazi country.
Dhim and Barbie: Judaism is pure and unadulterated pig shit. The fact that Copts are still around after 1500 years of Islamic dominance says something. The rest of the Egyptians aren't having that great a time either, thanks to your boy, Mubarak. Same for Chaldeans, Jews, Maronites and others living in predominantly Islamic countries. You morons haven't come to grips with the few Pali's that you have to deal with and have fucked it up after 60 years. I hope you got your wet suit around because you are going swimming soon.
You do that when lying IS second nature.
Would you say the same about neo-Nazis uttering comparative ideas?
This is no answer to her question. Would you have judged her similarly? Would you have considered a video capturing the discourse "on the Arab street" as triviality and unimportant. They demonize each other. Do you have evidence of similar demonizing of Jews by well educated Palestinians? The ones I know would never utter these things, Richard. They remain rather factual. The mood behind this could be watched much longer now.
Yes, Lieberman is a fascist racist, and I'm horrified that he's now my government's foreign minister and that Yisrael Beitenu is the third largest party in the Knesset. But to say that he "very nearly became [Israel's] new prime minister this spring" is beyond exaggeration – it's just planely not true. He has 15 seats out of 120 compared to Kadima and Likud's 28 and 27. There was absolutely no chance of him forming a government himself.
I remember it a bit more complex than that. But strictly it is true that the kind of number he uses are more familiar from movies. Although I wouldn't have paid attention to it given the context. It's not true that they stopped at 20000. There were six-digit numbers tattooed too. There were different series of numbers but none seem to have been above 6 digits that is true. Different series for the different groups and male and female. The huge transports of Hungarian and other eastern Jews got A and B series numbers up to 20.000, sometimes up to 30.000, if I remember correctly. That's what they allude too. There are dead books, the registers of the Nazi bureaucracy. Strictly I think no identical numbers exist but instead each of these 20.000 series was preceded by a different letter. At least that is how I remember it.
Hi Emmanuel What you say might be true, though it seems quite irrelevant in light of the fact that your repulsive excuse for a country has had one violent Nazi leader after another after another. People like Menachem Begin, whom Einstein urged the US president not to allow in the country. Einstein called him a Nazi and a fascist. or Golda Meir. Or the great dove Rabin, who presided over the largest ethnic cleansing in Israel's history. Or the Nazi Tzipi Livni who says that there is no humanitarian crisis in gaza and on and on and on. So Leibermann is just a distraction. A sideshow.
Youd didn't see the 'Satire' tag at Kvetcher's 'shocking statetments' post?
"Well educated Palestinians" is not the parallel. These were drunk frat-boys. It tarnishes the brand. Mondoweiss is now known for equating the opinions of drunk frat boys (after all GW was one) and some "inquiry" into Israeli public opinion. It is horribly ironic that the Mondoweiss "editors" are so critical of bias in polling for example (rationally), then put their moniker on such a poorly constructed journalistic statement. Phil's name is on this work. Its referred to many places by otherwise responsible people.
You're using the term Nazi way too loosely. Rabin was elected on a pro-peace platform and gave the Palestinians the most self-rule they've ever had, more than the Ottomans, Brits, Egyptians and Jordanians ever gave them, so I wouldn't call him a Nazi, despite anything he may have done in 1948, when there was an "either us or them" situation which doesn't exist anymore. Neither is Tzipi Livni a Nazi. It was wrong to deny the fact that there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, but it doesn't mean she's a racist or that she wants Palestinians to die. She supports a two-state solution. Menachem Begin and Golda Meir are ancient history. The conflict is much more complex than how you present it.
Tzipi Livni's administration ordered the bombing of hospitals and schools. Then they forbade supplies for rebuilding and even basic foodstuffs to the traumatized and terrorized victims huddling in the remains of their homes. To deny she is a Nazi is repugnant and absurd. Ditto describing Israel's mass rapes, expulsions and massacres of unarmed civilians in 1948 as "either us or them." It's as hair-raisingly vile as describing Germany's destruction of Jewish lives as an "either us or them" situation. This is pure aggression.
Hospitals and schools weren't targeted. Hamas fired from nearby and Israel responded. I recognize and regret that our military was way too aggressive and did not do enough to ensure it would only be hitting terrorists. Still, the aim was not to harm civilians. Although some supplies such as pasta were not allowed to enter Gaza for no good reason, some basic aid kept flowing in all the time. I'm not defending rapes and massacres. However, the Nakba and the Holocaust are not the same. There was a war between Jews and Arabs while there was no war between Jews and Germans. Arabs had massacred Jews, too. Both sides' massacres of the other side's civilians were indefensible.
The aim was not to harm civilians. That's why they herded them into a school and then bombed it. ok…you're in Nazi la la land. I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but clearly, sane discussion with you is impossible.
That's why they bombed the Gaza zoo, then went in and shot all the animals point blank. Because of terrorists. Because of Hamas. You are defending what is utterly indefensible. Save yourself, Emmanual. Save your human dignity and stop defending that Nazi pigsty. Show you are a JEW…someone of character who has a sense of justice. there are many in your country who have done so. Jews the world over look up to them for their courage! Show the world that you are BETTER than Israel. http://www.guernicamag.com/art/1009/gaza_laid_bar...
there was no such thing as a seven-digit number. And especially not at Auschwitz. Consult the Auschwitz Museum for info. There were only 240,000 Jews in Germany in 1938, according to the American Jewish Committee records provided to the World Almanac.
Or read the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Web site: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&...
Amen.
That link returns an error, dalybean.
You show a lot of courage tapping away at your keyboard.
Max is correct. Former US Ambassador to Israel, Martin Indyk, said in a recent interview about Netanyahu's choice of Liberman over Livni: “Bibi can’t behave with Washington like the boy who killed his parents and then asked for mercy because he was an orphan. He can’t say, I can’t make compromises because I have Lieberman in my coalition.”
I wish it weren't so, but we are all collectively responsible for what has been done to the Palestinians, since it is our tax dollars and our government's support for Israel which has enabled the situation to fester. Supposedly, we live in a democracy, but we are too lazy and timid to demand justice in the middle east. This makes us all accomplices; Israel is our concern. Likewise, the immigration issue can in many situations be traced to short-sighted policies by our own government, policies which we should have opposed but were too busy living our lives without paying heed to what was being done in our name. For instance, many of the Mexican immigrants that have recently arrived in the U.S. have been forced to abandon their villages in Mexico where they could no longer make a living as farmers due to the large subsidies that our Congress gives to agri-business. And after every military adventure, you can be sure to see new immigrants in the U.S.. Here in California, we have very large Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Central American communities……perhaps if we hadn't invaded S.E. Asia or funded the contras those people would have stayed in their own countries.
Noone in the United States is forced to say the pledge of allegiance, the only possible exception being during the naturalization ceremony. Nothing happens if an American citizen, born or already naturalized, refuses to say it. He will not be deported or imprisoned or fined. And that's as it should be; there are many people who would rather swear allegiance to a higher authority such as God, or the belief in the universal brotherhood of man, and who refuse to pledge their allegiance to an archaic symbol of nationalism.
The UN itself admitted that it was wrong about Israel hitting a UNRWA school. The deaths occured outside the school, where Hamas were shooting rockets. It was nowhere near a situation where the IDF herded people into a school with the intention of killing them. In other cases, there were a few mistakes where one unit didn't inform the other unit of the fact that civilians (and in one case, IDF soldiers) were in a particular location, leading to tragic deaths of innocent Palestinians (and one case of friendly-fire deaths of Israeli soldiers). This was incompitence, you could even call it criminal negligence, but it was not murderous intent. I don't know what exactly happened at the Gaza zoo. I do know Hamas rigged it, as well as a nearby school, with explosives, as this video shows. The animals seem to be alive here and I have no idea how they ended up dead (IDF or Hamas fire, who knows?)
ok…you're in Nazi la la land. I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but clearly, sane discussion with you is impossible. So if I disagree with you than I'm a Nazi and sane discussion is impossible? Great way to open up a dialogue!
Woops, I screwed up the links there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhs9ihSmbU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhs9ihSmbU
RE: "Blumenthal's video is a reflection of Lieberman's Israel." *AN ISRAELI YOUTH (IVANOV) QUOTED IN A “HAARETZ” ARTICLE OF 02-07-09 TITLED “Lieberman’s anti-Arab ideology wins over Israel’s teens” – “We have a problem: Upper Nazareth is surrounded by minorities. There are lots of incidents with them. Women are scared to walk in the streets, and people are afraid they’ll be stabbed. No one knows what to do about it at this point. There are people who live here and during a war they act as a fifth column. It will only be possible to make peace with them after we make war.” SOURCE - http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1059164.html *AN EXCERPT FROM A HAARETZ ARTICLE OF 01/27/09 TITLED “Police arrest Jewish teens for allegedly assaulting Arab youth in Galilee”: An Arab youth from the Galilee village of Majd el-Krum was injured lightly on Monday night after a gang of Jewish teens beat him with sticks while he was walking along the promenade in Tiberias. Police arrested eight suspects ranging from 14 to 16 years of age who are believed to have taken part in the assault. The victim, Mohammed Mansur, was rushed to Poriah Hospital near Tiberias, where he was treated for injuries sustained all over his body….. SOURCE - http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1059164.html
I believe Shafiq is a HE>
…because the man who is Israel’s new foreign minister, and who very nearly became its new prime minister this spring, is an absolute, unqualified bigot. Hey, did I miss something here? Maybe someone should fill in Mr. Felson on how the Israel electoral system works. Coming in a third does not qualify a party here to form a government. Under the law, the President must assign the task to the person whom he thinks has the best chance after consultations with the leaders of all the parties. Lieberman was never even close. As far as "racist" statements, and I'd challenge Mr. Felson to show where his statements have been "nakedly racist". Lieberman is an uncouth thug, and he's probably corrupt (and I hope that the attorney general chooses to prosecute him), but I don't think that he is a racist.
You're confusing Tzipi Livni with Ehud Olmert, who was the prime minister at the time. But then, I think that we should cut you some slack because you appear to be generally confused!
I'd say that the "fat faced frat boys" in the RV in "Borat" represent the bulk of Americans. So where does that leave you tommy?
Again, Mr. Felson, if you had listened carefully to their accents, you would understand that the students in the film were most likely Americans, not Israelis. They represent American attitudes toward Obama; not Israeli attitudes. The only definite Israeli is the guy at the very end of the film who says: "Da Israel is a stupid man!"
I'm also in my shul, in my community, in the organizations that I participate in. And, I attempt to conduct myself here and elsewhere with the implication of mutual respect, and consistently rejecting condemnation of people or peoples.
Dickerson, don't you get tired of posting the same stories over, and over, and over again?
sorry emmanual…I've been through this nonsense one too many times. "oh no…we never used white phosphorus. no no…we don't torture. No…arabs in israel have wonderful lives. No–it was Hamas..it was the terrorists. Israel use children as human shields??…NEVER. No we never target non-violent demonstrators. No…the land is in "dispute"…No No…we take every precaution to protect civilian lives. No humanitarian disaster in Gaza. Blah Blah Blah" You know who believes this shit? Other Nazis…that's who believes this shit.
Just because you're an anti-Israel extremist doesn't mean I'm a right-wing Israeli fanatic who thinks Israel can do no wrong. I don't know why I kept arguing with you after the first time you called me a Nazi. You're unworthy of a reply.
Oh, Lieberman is definitely a racist and an opponent of democracy. He has said many times that if Israel could not be both Jewish and democratic then he'd rather have a Jewish state than a democratic one. But you're right that he was never close to being elected prime minister, and he never will be . People should remember that the guy got just about 10% of the votes of those who bothered to vote, and his support is even lower among the general population. Not all of those support him because of his anti-Arab views. Some just saw it as a protest vote. So linking this video of American Jews who aren't even Israeli to a trend in Israeli society is baseless. Don't forget Dash and Shinui, two other parties (liberal this time) who got 15 seats in the Knesset and then crashed and disappeared when the next election came along. I hope that will happen to Yisrael Beitenu.
There's a very easy way to avoid being labeled a Nazi. Stop defending Nazism. Stop making excuses for it. Other israelis like Gideon Levy don't make excuses for it…is HE an "anti-israel extremist?" Is Amira Hass "an anti-israel extremist?" Is your country's own human rights bureau Bt'selem a nest of "anti-Israel extremists" or are these simply people willing to tell the truth about the nauseating policies of your government?
A well-known Irgun terrorist, guilty of massacres was made Prime Minister. Blood soaked monsters like Sharon have led your country for decades. What the HELL are you talking about?
I criticize Israel's policies plenty, but I also see a complex situation where not everything Israel does is wrong (or right) and not everything the Palestinians do is right (or wrong). We aren't Nazis and Palestinians aren't pure victims (nor the other way around). From now on, whenever I defend one thing Israel does do I need to list all the other things I oppose about Israel's policies to avoid being called names?
Begin ended up making peace with Egypt and giving the Sinai back to Egypt, a move that won popular support and got him re-elected in 1981. So, yes, he was a former terrorist before 1948 but he left it long behind him, and he wasn't elected on a racist platform like Lieberman. I never supported Ariel Sharon and think he was one of the worst Israeli leaders in history. He was a war criminal when he was in the army, and as PM his decision to unilaterally withdraw from Gaza, instead of doing it through an agreement with the PA, was wrong. However, don't forget the leaders who were elected on a pro-peace platform: Rabin in 1992, Barak in 1999, Ehud Olmert in 2006, and even to some extent Sharon in his second term in 2003. They may have not delivered as promised, but people voted for them in the belief that they would promote the two-state solution. Even these last elections, Kadima got the most seats in the Knesset on a pro-negotiation platform.
I haven't heard you oppose anything, emmanuel. I've heard you act as an IDF intermediary, disseminating their outrageous lies about Gaza and other matters and backing up your claims of Israeli innocence with links to lunatic sites like israelinsider (which currently features a video claiming that Obama is the son of malcom x) http://israelinsider.ning.com/video/whos-your-dad... The situation is NOT complex. Your country has absolutely no right and no claim of ANY KIND to one single sand grain of the west bank and gaza and their vicious tactics against a starved and brutalized civilian populace are completely in violation of the law. It's as complicated as the warsaw ghetto was complicated. This is Nazi aggression and it has to stop. End of story.
that sure doesn't square with everything we've heard, emmanuel, namely that barak felt duty-bound to commit a despicable massacre in gaza to win the loyalty of his bloodthirsty citizenry, but that even the vast destruction in gaza was not enough to satiate their bloodlust, so they elected netanyhu instead. It's just odd that this peace-adoring, kind-hearted nation is always involved in massacres and brutalizations…one after another after another, since its inception.
total ignorance Muezzin – you should go put yourself in a toilet and call your Allah from the depths of your loo. The fact that the Middle East is Muslim, is proof of what you did to Christians, and what you did to Jews is even worse, since there virtually aren't any in Muslim countries. The Copts are around because they fought for their ass. Like the Maronites, Malakites, and Chaldeans. All these people were in the vast majority until brutal Islamic conquests, and already they had waged a war of survival from the 9th. Get a damned history book you poor slob. As for the Hindus you slaughtered, we've read Dal's books. Minar Qutub for sure.
You can't run anything with Arabs – other than razias and slaver caravans. That's why their contribution to the development of the state is a -1400. As in all the years they've retarded the advancement of freedom with their "Slave to Allah" credo.
Know why they are protected – because half their territory is LEGALLY THEIRS. They bought it. I don't know where you get your facts, but the West Bank is not Israeli territory.
In some ways, Judaism is bullshit, just like Christianity. But it don't stink half as bad as Islam. Because there ain't no other religion in the world founded by a slave-trader, pedophilic, genocidal, rapist! I mean that's who Muslims's worship. That's just the facts. In Judaism, we have our defects – big ones I'll grant – but for Christ's sake – we are not Slaves! We don't say Allahu Akhbar, steal other's idaes as our own, and when we are done slaughtering say that we are the Religion of Peace? What kind of IQ do you need, not to see the barbarity and sheer idiotism of Islam? As per our country being racist – I am an american, but I consider Israel our country in the Jewish sense. Please, get off your "racist" schtick. The West is getting chewed out by third world immigrants and Islamists, and they use lawfare to kick our ass. It's enough to call any critique of Islam as "racist" or any design on preserving the ethnic balance of the United States as "racist" and we all have to shut up. Uh-Uh! No way Jose. If you're illegal – deportation. I get a right to my sovereignty, and it aint racist to claim my border. Same with Israel. Basta.
I haven't heard you oppose anything, emmanuel. I guess you've been engaged in some selective reading. Even in comments here I've expressed opposition to Avigdor Lieberman and his policies. Besides, our scope of discussion has been very narrow. If you want to get a broader idea of my views on things, you can take a look at my blog. About Israel Insider, I just linked to the first link I found on Google reporting about UNRWA's admission. It was a bad choice of website, but the information in it was correct. Israel didn't hit the school itself. I agree that Gaza and the West Bank don't belong to Israel. That's why I support the two-state solution. However, the way to get to the two-state solution is complex. Israel isn't the only side responsible for the situation. The Palestinians, too, have to promise that they will not continue fighting Israel once it withdraws. Are concerns regarding the possibility of rockets coming from the West Bank and not just Gaza not legitimate?