Over the next few days we’re hoping to devote attention to President Obama’s speech in Cairo and offer various reactions. The following is from our regular contributor Seham:
Well, I hate to rain on any ones parade but I am not particularly
excited about Obama’s upcoming speech in Cairo. I do wonder what type
of theatrics there will be, though. I hope they bring their own stage
and production crew from the U.S. because Egyptians would try to turn
it into one of their lame music videos and Amr Diab
would wind up MC-ing the whole event, clad in a white suit, with lots
of clapping and a jackass on a Casio. Or maybe in a shout-out to all
Egyptian taxi drivers they would feature Hakim–with James Brown, of course. But they probably wouldn’t ask Shabaan Abdel Raheem to participate, even though he dresses like Liberace’s tackier step brother and he wrote a catchy tune about Obama that invokes Saladin (eng subtitles).
If Obama really was trying to turn a new leaf in the Middle East, he wouldn’t have chosen a police state that tortures, humiliates and suppresses any dissent in that country. Robert Fisk sums it up best:
“And please note that Obama has chosen Egypt for his latest address to
the Muslims, a country run by an ageing potentate – Hosni Mubarak is 80
– who uses his secret police like a private army to imprison human
rights workers, opposition politicians, anyone in fact who challenges
the great man’s rule. At this point, we won’t mention torture. Be sure
that this little point is unlikely to get much play in the Obama
sermon, just as he surely will not be discussing Saudi Arabia’s orgy of
head-chopping when he chats to King Abdullah on Wednesday.”
Clap, clap, clap Mr. Fisk.
But, this is all
political theater and time wasting. The more time that goes on the
more time that the Israelis have to create facts on the ground that
will be near impossible to reverse. And when Obama talks about the
two-state solution, that’s just more time being wasted. Besides, Obama is only talking about freezing settlement growth, not about uprooting
any of the settlements. All this posturing by Netanyahu and Obama
about the expansion of the settlements is absurd because there is no
such thing as a Palestinian state or any kind of two-state solution
with settlements running through it. So, the discussion, if it is to
be a legitimate one, around the two-state solution should revolve around when
those settlements will be removed not about whether they should be
getting bigger.
And Abbas has shown in the last few days that he is
willing to spill Palestinian blood
to retain his illegitimate and insignificant power. Abbas will accept
anything that the Israelis offer him; Hamas will protest; the U.S. will
then use that as an opportunity to completely sideline Hamas by telling
them that they are extremists and unwilling to negotiate (status quo).
Then Obama, Netanyahu and Abbas will all shake hands at Camp David but
those settlement blocs in the West Bank will remain in place and the
media will be shocked when the Palestinians launch a third or fourth
intifada because those pesky Palestinians were born to make trouble…
So, I’m not really interested in the content of whatever Obama says
in Cairo, I don’t expect much to change. Obama has already said that
no matter what, the U.S. will continue to support Israel at the UN and that he won’t be cutting aid to Israel.
But, I do think that Obama will first shower the Arabs and Muslims with
flowery praise for Islam’s contributions to civilization; promise to
work hard towards the illegitimate two-state solution; remind everyone
that half of his family is Muslim; and then lightly scold the Arabs on
their “extremism” and tell them to quit blaming everything on the U.S.
and Israel… all the while being hosted by his allies in Saudi Arabia
and Egypt and of course not forgetting to gently remind the Lebanese who they should vote for on Sunday.
Great message to Obama in the NYT’s today, by the way:
“WHAT could Barack Obama tell the Muslim world tomorrow that we would be
happy to hear? He could tell us that he’s going to stay out of our elections.”
Phil's posts are more sober and grounded in fact. Obama has already significantly and convincingly changed US policy in Israel/Palestine. Prior, the Bush administration approved of Israeli settlement expansion by "natural growth" or other means. Both communities are creating "facts on the ground" as we speak. For example, the oft-sited 7% ownership of land by Zionists in 1948 (from river to sea) ignores the fact that only around 3 times that much was held by Palestinians, that the vast majority of land was either public land, commons, or unoccupied. So, to go from 20% Arab ownership (round numbers, noone knows) to the 93% (100% – 7 %) national ownership claims of the nationalist Palestinian two-state or one-state proponents is also an anti-democratic "fact on the ground". Somehow you ignored that Hamas was willing to spill Palestinian blood in launching grenades against the Palestinian police that were attempting to arrest them. Israel deserves support at the UN and military support. It does not deserve unconditional support though. Neither does ANY Palestinian resistance movement. They deserve conditional support, conditioned on some assessment of their goals and means.
Google up Tom Friedman's telephone call with Obama apropos the impending Cairo visit. Also, note that Israel has already decided to nourish relations with Russia merely because Obama has objected to further expansion of the settlements in public–Israel knows that Russia could care less about the settlements and does want to increase its influence in the Middle East; not to mention the Rooskie Jews who came en masse now are a real power house in Israel with lingering ties to Russia–you may recall Bush 1 was booted when he tried to tie loan guarantees (to finance those same Rooskie Jews immigrating to Israel) to stopping the settlements at least, if not even uprooting them. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=124334... Israel always manages to find a new major country to live on, Israel, the zombie state.
No, we certainly wouldn't want any Palestinian resistance movement to get the huge and unconditional support given by the USA to Israel for so many decades.
"PRESIDENT OBAMA: This is my first visit to Saudi Arabia, but I've had several conversations with His Majesty. And I've been struck by his wisdom and his graciousness. Obviously the United States and Saudi Arabia have a long history of friendship, we have a strategic relationship. And as I take this trip and we'll be visiting Cairo tomorrow, I thought it was very important to come to the place where Islam began and to seek His Majesty's counsel and to discuss with him many of the issues that we confront here in the Middle East." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/03/obama-i-... I really want to know what kind of "wisdom" that Arab hillbilly offered to Obama, I really want to know. Who can find out for me???
‘Remember what happened when GW Bush attempted open up Egypt and democratize the Mideast?,’ say left-liberal Statists. “Anti-U.S.” groups from Egypt to Lebanon benefited: the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Hamas in Palestine, Iran-backed Hezbollah in Lebanon. Therefore, we must work with more secular dictators, even if they are authoritarian thugs like Mubarak. Why? Would theocracies in the vein of Iran really be that bad for the masses of Muslims? Would Shiite theocracies in the East and Sunni theocracies in the West really be that bad? Answer: yes, the would be bad for Israeli expansionism, and they would be bad for oil-imperialism. So they would be bad for Zionists and money worshippers. Question #2: who gives a damn about that? Why does Obama? Doesn’t he want to pay market price for oil and gas like China and Russia are doing in deals with Iran? Or is he appeasing the Israel lobby and all the Jewish Zionists in the Democratic Party?
Bill Clinton gave the PLO itself HALF A BILLION OF YOUR DOLLARS. What you got for it was 9/11. Now Obama is even apologizing to the Middle East for not giving more. And that doesn't count the petro-trillions that you pay them, for no particular reason except that they demand it. People forget these things. Convenient, but dishonest.
Talk is cheap, Mr. President, and Arabs understand that even if Americans do not.
zombie state? And what is the imaginary "Palestine"???? Arafat tried to install himself in Jordan in 1970 – 10,000 were killed in the first month of his 'rule' there. Arafat tried to install himself in Lebanon in the late 1970s – 250,000 were killed in the civil war that he started. Then Arafat tried to install himself in Israel. Surprise! After Arafat signed "peace", Jews were murdered at THREE TIMES the rate of before "peace". Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, Lebanon, others who get BILLIONS of your tax dollars – and TRILLIONS IN MILITARY SUPPORT, not to mention your body bags – now THOSE are zombie states.
I Loved this article. Robert Fisk correctly points out that the Muslims of the world suffer under brutal dictatorships and MondoBrains spends the rest of his posting blasting Israel. Typical…
One other possibility: we are told by the Western intelligentsia that “gay marriage” and “the gay civil rights movement’ are sweeping the West, (no doubt to be followed by the “bi-sexual and trans-gender marriage and civil rights movements,” to be followed by God-knows what.) And obviously, Islamic theocracies aren’t going to be conducive to that. Why, they’re nearly as backward as conservative Christians. So let’s send in the Stalins, Saddams and Mubaraks to knock some sense into these backward, Islamic, God-fearing dusky hordes. Tom Friedman can shows us the way. And pretty soon, the entire earth will be a progressive paradise of materialism, atheism, narcissim and consumerism as epitomized in “Idiocracy.” Won’t that be paradise!
HALF A BILLION DOLLARS doesn't cover two months of our allowance to Israel. And what do we get for it? The sinking of the Liberty, 34 dead American Serviceman? A compliant client state? 9/11? It's easy to selectively arrange facts. Convenient, but dishonest.
Thomas Friedman claims that he reads the Arabic press "I told the president that joke because in reading the Arab and Israeli press this week." First, O Thomas Friedman, that joke was not a joke. I was so bored reading it that I could not finish it to reach your alleged punch line. Secondly, you don't read the Arab press (and you don't even read the Israeli press). You read what is published in English and then you rely on what MEMRI sends you from the Arabic press. So let us be honest here. Posted by As'ad at 8:49 AM
When Thomas Friedman invents Arab friends "An Egyptian friend remarked to me: Do not underestimate what seeds can get planted when American leaders don’t just propagate their values, but visibly live them." Notice that Thomas Friedman always invents Arab friends and notice that he attributes to them things that he has said before. How convenient–as one character on Saturday Night Live used to say. Posted by As'ad at 8:51 AM
Now I can see the basis of your larger argument. Thanks. Neither does ANY Palestinian resistance movement. obviously. But that is so illusionary one doesn't even need to mention it. The point is, what exactly does the Palestinian resistance movement, or Hamas, demand? And no, I somehow don't trust the statement any longer: They want to push Israel into the sea.
Do you have any evidence to prove a connection between the PLO, the money and 911?
Thomas Friedman is a disgrace to humanity. It is unbelievable that anyone takes seriously – and that the NYT publishes and an American president actually listens to – a man with such a 'sociopathic lust' – to use Glenn Greenwald's phrase – for killing and torturing innocent civilians.* I think the best comment on Friedman was made by Norman Finkelstein:
*http://bit.ly/idXVI **http://bit.ly/idXVI
Bruce, you obviously have a problem with simple arithmetic re: aid to Israel c.f. aid to Pals. The Liberty not only preceeded US financial aid to Israel, but was the result of the Johnson administrations spying on Israel for the benefit of Egypt. You are opening a can of worms which you will definitely trip on here. You are blaming 9/11 on Israel, too? Now you have REALLY made my case for me. Thanks, Bruce!
Clinton, like Obama now, was trying to be friends with the Arab/Islamic world. When smelling weakness, IslamoFascists decided to plan a strike to demonstrate their superiority over the Infidel Americans. This is why they chose high-profile targets (Twin Towers, Pentagon and prbably the White House, itself.) All the money that Clinton gave Arafat (and that Arafat embezzled) didn't help the Pals one tiny bit.
I actually agree here. Tom Friedman is usually a very entertaining writer (though I didn't find that 'joke' funny at all) but he gets his facts wrong quite frequently. He is also fairly dishonest. That he gets prizes and awards for this amazes me.
Your comments are infested with falsehoods, generalizations, inventions, and conflations. I suggest you send your resume to Fox News. They need you.
Israel oppresses Muslims and Arabs and kills American humanists. Israel is a Satanic State – a whore of a State that will suck up to any country that will allow it to continue butchering Palestinian civilians and children. Jewish Zionists are the new Nazis.
Bill Clinton gave the PLO itself HALF A BILLION OF YOUR DOLLARS. What you got for it was 9/11. There were no Palestinians among the 9-11 hijackers. There were, however, Israelis laughing at and cheering on the murder of our people. The PLO had nothing to do with it, but the Mossad at least knew it was going to happen. The High-Fivers / More proof the Israelis were shadowing the 9/11 hijackers http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1... High-Fivers and Art Student Spies / What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks? http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1... People forget these things. Convenient, but dishonest. You nailed it.
Just and stable governance in the Arab world, and everywhere else for that matter, is certainly in the interests of the United States. However, the blowback onto America from our unwitting and involuntary political, financial, and military subsidization of Israeli ethnic cleansing and colonization is a far greater threat to our national security than that from relations with any Arab dictator.
A couple of years ago when I found out Oliver North was in Nicaragua campaigning for the conservative presidential candidate, I gave thanks I was not there. I might have acted out violence. Last month when VP Biden visited Lebanon to stump for the not Hezbollah candidates, I had to stifle my bad thoughts. The US should stop interfering in all nations internal affairs.
Strahl, you are being ridiculous. Israel is not a 'Satanic State' and it is not a 'whore of a State'. Israel has quite a lot not to admire, but then so do many other states. If Israel-firsters, neocons, and pro-colonization Zionists weren't dragging America into complicity with their crimes against the Palestinian people, we wouldn't think Israel markedly worse than China, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, Apartheid South Africa, or any other states that to varying degrees make a mockery of human rights. If any state is worthy of being called Satanic, it is North Korea. Few if any Israelis actually want to "butcher Palestinian civilians and children". The Israeli colonist movement just wants to steal their water and land. If the Palestinians just up and moved away, the IDF wouldn't follow them. Jewish Zionists are the new Nazis. Not all Zionists support colonization of the Occupied Palestinian Territories, so it is incorrect to blame all Zionists for the current impasse, much less all Jews. Even likening (pro) colonial Zionists to Nazis is silly. Again, the colonists want to steal land and water. Nazis wanted to cull the human race, to physically exterminate. There really is no comparison. Being thieves and depraved religious lunatics doesn't make colonial Zionists mass murderers, it makes them thieves and depraved religious lunatics. Exaggeration only serves to obscure what they are guilty of.
another brick from the wall: Obama: Iran May Have Rights to Civilian Nuclear Power http://news.antiwar.com/2009/06/02/obama-iran-may...
RE: "Obama's speech in Cairo won't matter unless he actually changes US policy" FROM 'CODE PINK': Tell Obama Where To Go. The President will be in Egypt this month and we want him to visit Gaza and see how the Israelis are using the yearly $3 billion military aid from U.S taxpayers. Sign our petition to the President today! *TO SIGN PETITION - http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/424/t/8434/p...
RE: "Obama has already said that no matter what, the U.S. will continue to support Israel at the UN and that he won't be cutting aid to Israel. " *TAKE ACTION TO END THE OCCUPATION Send a personalized letter (E-mail) to the Members of Congress on the Appropriations Subcommittee. Let these Members of Congress know that you oppose the President's FY2010 budget request for $2.775 billion in military aid to Israel. *TO SEND YOUR LETTER (E-mail) – http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/641/t/2439/c...
LOL!!! I see that you and I are on the same page Seham. Good commentary by the way that spoke on behalf of many of the Arab people…
The claim that struck me in Friedman's piece that Pres. Obama allegedly made to him was "“There are a lot of Arab countries more concerned about Iran developing a nuclear weapon than the ‘threat’ from Israel, but won’t admit it.”. Who exactly is speaking on behalf of these Arab countries to our President, the Zionists and dictatorial Arab leaders and their cronies who appear to be working hand in hand, or the Arab people? Can we honestly say that the so-called moderate by the West, dictatorial Arab leaders represent their people and therefore their concerns? Last I knew the Arab people are much more concerned as to the threat Israel poses in the region as a heavily armed nuclear state, than they are concerned about Iran allegedly developing a nuclear weapon….