J Street’s aim is to enable progressive American Jews to pressure Obama to force the two-state-solution. So far the pressure seems to be coming from Palestine. Uri Avnery:
"Mahmoud Abbas is fed up. The day before yesterday he withdrew his candidacy for the coming presidential election in the Palestinian Authority.
"I understand him.
"He feels betrayed. And the traitor is Barack Obama…."At long last an American president who understood that he had to put an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, not only for the sake of the two peoples, but mainly for the US national interests. This conflict is largely responsible for the tidal waves of anti-American hatred that sweep the Muslim masses from ocean to ocean…
"As high as the hopes were then, so deep is the disappointment now. Nothing of all these has come about. Worse: the Obama administration has shown by its actions and omissions that it is not really different from the administration of George W. Bush."
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It will turn.
Things change fast, in the same places though. Palestine will have an election in January.
How Netanyahu behaves will determine if Likud EVER means to reconcile or is just clowning (which is likely). Anything that Israel does between now and January will be political problem for Fatah. Likud blew Israel’s chance to support the moderate approach.
On and on. Is anyone serious about peace?
The Great Karnak lifts the little pieces of paper to his forehead once again. . . .
Is that forehead or foreskin? Oops. LOL
Just pointing out how how flimsy the role of metaphor and similie. What’s really cute is how much normal people use (banal) poetry and (half-baked historical analogies) to view what they call reality.
That election is by no means a done deal or a sure thing.
Witty, what policy, behavior or rhetoric coming out of any ruling party Israel has had should instill confidence in anyone that Israe’s government can ever be taken at their word? They won’t even respect a simple cease fire. (And yes, we know you deny that fact with a tenacity of Bishop Williamson proportions. You don’t have to repeat yourself ad nauseum yet again)
Begin’s withdrawal from the Sinai and Barak’s withdrawal from Southern Lebanon seemed pretty real. I think the way Israel operates is if you don’t continue to bomb them they will stop bombing you. Egypt got it pretty early, as did Jordan. Hezbollah hasn’t bombed Israel or killed any of their soldiers recently, things are pretty calm in the north.
And if you don’t think that digging a tunnel into Israel is a violation of the cease fire, then you are a nut.
You can either believe everything you hear from your lefty buddies @ the student union, or you could try to read some history.
Yonira, that happened after how many decades of occupation in each case, occupations which (in Lebanon’s case certainly) were rife with atrocities among those being oppressed? And they only happened under duress — Carter had to force Israel to come to the negotiating table under threat of cutting off foreign aid in the case of the Sinai, while the withdrawal from Lebanon came only after the occupational military was becoming exhausted.
And then, Israel still occupies Golan, Shebaa, Gaza and the West Bank. You don’t get partial credit when it comes to ending occupations, military expansions and atrocities, yonira.
And as it happens? If the US had listened to me and my lefty buddies? There would be more than 4,000 American troops and over a million Iraqis who wouldn’t be dead right now — people who are dead because of people like you, yonira — bloodthirsty racist carrion-feeding war hawks.
Why do you pretend any real power is in the hands of the Palestinians, regardless of
who represents them? The USA and Israel have done all in their combined power
to divide and conquest the Palestinians. Hamas merely anticipated it’s activities countered the special alliance’s sabotage, resulting in the past election of Hamas.
Averny: “Not only has Obama given up his claim to a complete change in US policy, but he is actually continuing the policy of Bush. And since Obama pretends to be the opposite of Bush, this is double treachery.
Abbas reacted with the only weapon he has at his command: the announcement that he will leave public life.”
So true. When’s the last time a colonial puppet did this to the Americans, who disguise their proxies in democratic rhetoric? That neither Obama (that is, his Zionist appointees, especially his gate-keeper), nor the Israeli Mr N expected this, shows just
how much both regimes are committed to the status quo, to Shrub sans bad English
and his blatent Christian Zionist bible-thumping? It will not turn. Abbas tried his best
to fullfill the AIPAC-Israeli recipe at the expense of his own people because he knew he had no power and so he tried to “work within the system.” He thought he was a realist, distinguishing himself from Arafat’s version of himself as charasmatic like Bill Clinton. Vichy France failed in the end; so too will the USA-Israel regimes–it will cost the world’s people very much. Nothing is learned from history, even as the status quo leaders all point to half-baked historical analogies.
Facts on the ground trump all the theory … israel seems ready to launch another murderous campaign against the people of Gaza (which will only isolate them further in the world community and put more pressure on the U.S. to finally reign them in) … Abbas did the smartest thing possible … he took away israel’s co-opted Palestinian leader by removing himself (Abbas is the U.S.’s guy, hence he is israel’s guy) … now if Fatah does not put forward another leader right away Hamas becomes the de-facto partner in negotiations (they are, after all the democratically elected leaders … and the U.S. pushed for the election which brought them to power) … will israel really commit all-out ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians and force them out (they have a brief window for that and will doom themselves if they do) … Check, israel … your move
Israelis didn’t invent chess; their forte is deception, not strategy, and the two have absolutely nothing to do with the other. ”All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.” — Sun Tzu
This is the moment of truth; note how the USA has now threatened arab third parties with loss of foreign aid if they don’t convince the chosen Pal puppet to sing the old Vichy France song: http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=49165
We can threatned loss of foreign aid with everyone–except Israel. Our Uncle Sam
is trully a lame dumb ass. Of course that requires we have even a smidgeon of belief our Uncle actually cares about his whole family. Or, the world, for that matter.
Ever wonder what Obama’s parents, each respectively, would advise him? I think the answer is clear. But he actually thinks he’s wiser–the believes in politics, the art of the possible. The leftover question is, then why be so duplicitous and campaign with the banner of Change? But peeps have caught on to him of late, slowly. We were all so desperate for anybody but Shrub and the neocons. Now we are seeing its the same brewery, with a new product, Neocon Lite. Lager or Lite, we are headed for WW3.
Excuse me Where in the article sited (http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=49165) does it say that “the USA has now threatened arab third parties with loss of foreign aid is they don’t convince … ” ?
This is the moment of truth; note how the USA has now threatened arab third parties with loss of foreign aid if they don’t convince the chosen Pal puppet to sing the old Vichy France song: http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=49165
We can threatned loss of foreign aid with everyone–except Israel. Our Uncle Sam
is trully a lame dumb ass. Of course that requires we have even a smidgeon of belief our Uncle actually cares about his whole family. Or, the world, for that matter.
Ever wonder what Obama’s parents, each respectively, would advise him? I think the answer is clear. But he actually thinks he’s wiser–the believes in politics, the art of the possible. The leftover question is, then why be so duplicitous and campaign with the banner of Change? But peeps have caught on to him of late, slowly. We were all so desperate for anybody but Shrub and the neocons. Now we are seeing its the same brewery, with a new product, Neocon Lite. Lager or Lite, we are headed for WW3.
chosen Pal puppet
I always thought “Pal” was a derogatory nickname used by those who despised Palestinians, kind of like – dare I say it? – “Paki”
Me too, although it’s kind of ironic since “pal” is a term for “friend.
Aha! Nolan, meet This Thing Called Sarcasm. TTCS, meet Nolan. I’d introduce you to my friend Irony, but first you two may want to get acquainted a bit.
Deja vu all over again!!
“Whether Petain was indeed trying to spare his country further woes, whether he truly saw no hope of victory, whether he envisaged an opportunity for higher political and historical aspirations for himself, or whether he simply had no will to fight are questions that only he could surely answer.”
-Churchill
France actually won WWII twice. Once when the Nazis came and then again when they left.
This is obviously a freudian-p0litical projection.
“This conflict is largely responsible for the tidal waves of anti-American hatred that sweep the Muslim masses from ocean to ocean…”
The answer is, they do not want it too stop. Let me post what I have said elsewhere –
These are all telling signs, however there is one issue which the author has overlooked. Let me preface it by saying that you are more than willing to look at my site, and see that long before any dates of closure I have a 100% record of predicting correctly what is going to take place, but if there is any thing that I wish I was wrong about it is what I am about to say.
The one area that the author (Sachs) forgot to mention is that precarious period just before the decline of empire, when it is most explosive. It has been mentioned also by Chalmers Johnson in his book the “Sorrows Of Empire” – and that is plunging the world into another world war. This is always done with the high financial partners of international banking, as can repeatedly be seen in the other two world wars.
Now, you may ask “why would they do that?” The reason why it is done is because destruction of everything is the only way to build in the capitalist system, and to ensure the positions of elite strength. That is, in order to hold positions of the few, they would rather plunge all of humanity into a world conflagration – so that they can crush any upsurge by other rivals and decrease the population by force meaning that they do not need to fulfill any of the peoples needs around the world.
So, you can call me crazy – and I hope I am, but if you begin to see these things unfold (and this is not because I am a mystical prophet, but because I know how these individuals work), remember where you heard it first (and also remember that all the world wars started during democratic administrations – WW1, WW2, Korean War, Vietnam, and with what many consider the least likely individuals – Obama).
Forgot to put the link that this was a response to –
SIX SIGNS THAT THE AMERICAN EMPIRE IS COMING TO AN EARLY END
Kevin Philips pointed out the signs of decline in his “AMERICAN THEOCRACY” . it’s a good read
I hope you are wrong, V…but I think you have it nailed. Almost too depressing to contemplate.
No doubt that the Banking industry is always the core group for war; otherwise the regime would have to first pass a direct tax in full public view simply to fund any war; the partner in the USA is revealed by the fact that the last war the federal congress actually constitutionally declared was WW2.
Whether it is constitutionally declared or not Citizen, it is still financed by the same sources. In fact, Wall Street made a killing off of both sides of the war, etc.
True. And Rothschilds made a killing on both sides when Napoleon was hot.
Abbas is a puppet on the strings handled by USrael. He won the PA leadership for being closer to Arafat and USrael. When Hamas won the election to the great surprise of USrael and Fatah – Abbas openly sided with the enemies of Palestinian people. Abbas and Dhahlan are the only two PA sellouts who are acceptable to USrael. Abbas cannot compromise with Hamas – because USrael doesn’t want it. Mitchell told Abbas in October that “the time was not right” for an alliance between Fatah and Hamas.
On October 24, Abbas signed a decree calling for Palestinian elections in Gazzah, the West Bank and East Jerusalem on January 24, 2010 though his current presidency expired in January 2009. After waffling pn the Goldstone report and under pressure from USrael not to accept any reconcilliation with Hamas, Abbas finds himself a rock and a hard place. Abbas is known for using his ‘resignation card’ as political pressure. As soon as announced his latest resignation threat – Shimon Peres jumped on phone and pleaded with Abbas to stay put – hoping USrael could pull the Lebanese backstage coup here too.
As far as Obama is concerned – I will stick to my earlier opinion:
Obama: A Jew-hater or friend of Israel
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/obama-a-jew-hater-or-friend-of-israel/
Maybe I’m overly optimistic but I think Abbas is cashing out for good. I don’t think he’s merely “playing” the resignation card. I certainly hope not — the man is hopelessly corrupt.
First economic recovery, then health care reform, and now the Mid-East peace process. Strike three, Mr. President.
Abbas isn’t talking simply about not standing for election in January – if there is an election. He’s talking now about walking out. And if he does, how many of the PA will walk with him? And who will be left? Besides Hamas?
But Israel has already said it won’t release Barghouti even if he is elected.
After supporting Operation Cast Lead and being strong-armed by Obama about burying the Goldstone Report? I don’t think many people are exactly following Abbas now, and will we really miss any who do leave with him?
I think the Palestinians should elect Barghouti. I’ve heard good things about him and the thing keeping him from the negotiation table as the rightful representative of the Palestinian people being the racist, brutal Israeli prison system will only shine a bigger spotlight on how Israel is the problem here.
I get the sense that Obama is about to take his gloves off, having given Natanyahu enough rope since the Cairo Speech.
I also get the sense that Natanyahu is about to duck Obama’s punch with the help of some of his fan club who also happen to work for Obama.
Really, if Obama misses his upper-cut on Natanyahu’s jaw this time round, people will start to really think that Obama intends to treat the Palestinians even worse than George W Bush ever did.
I think you give Obama too much credit. His book smart, he’s well-spoken but he’s obviously not a clever or wise man.
Au contraire, chaos, my friend, Obama is clever and wise but his hands are cuffed with the star of David and he knows it and he is super duper peeved.
Always remember that he is dealing with truly the worst kind of zionist – far more wretched than Mr. Witty could ever dream of being.
In Obama’s corner, the African American community watch how the Jewish community are treating him and they are appalled and becoming more and more distrustful of them.
Not to play up the racial issues too much but… honestly, exactly how much tie does Obama really have to the African American community? His father was from Kenya and he was raised by his mother’s family. He doesn’t have a lot of formative exposure to the African American community — I mean, I’m not going to say Obama hasn’t experienced racism and the like, but he’s not, essentially, a child of black culture in the United States.
That isn’t to say the African American community isn’t getting wise to how things work in American politics and what it costs them — the Senate being the classic example (15 Senators from from the Jewish 3% of the population, opposed to just one senator for the 15% of African Americans), not to mention the price they pay politically, economically and otherwise (the Black Caucus in the House was screaming to call attention to the disenfranchisement of black voters in Florida; but it takes a Senator to have brought that issue forward in the 2000 election, and not a single Senator cared at a time when there were no African American Senators at all).
But, I think perhaps, Obama doesn’t really represent African Americans in any capacity beyond skin color. I’m sorry to say that, but I think that’s true, and the policies (not to mention the appointments) of his Administration are solidly in the pocket of AIPAC.
I can’t personally underestimate the connection and loyalties the African American community feels towards Obama.
Radical African Americans may agree with you, but I think the majority (who are not radical) fully support Obama. Of course should any harm either politically or physically come to Obama through Aipac, methinks the ‘average’ African American would indeed become radicalized AGAINST American Jews.
This is a scenario I easily foresee happening.
Hey I’m feeling pooped by Obama’s ‘method’ too – but I hold back just slightly due to the fact the battle between Natanyahu and Obama is so very full on behind closed doors at the moment, despite how the MSM’s attempt to state otherwise.
p.s. sorry chaos, but I have to go out for a few hours now and won’t be able to respond to you in real time – but i’ll be back to this thread later. Have a good one in the meantime.
what country are you in Chaos? have you ever talked to an African American before? He is their savior, they will be left behind like ever other POTUS has done for the African American community, but it will take a LONG time before they realize this.
We know, yonira. Obama’s obviously an inept figurehead — you rest assured that people like Rahm Emmanuel are the real movers and shakers pulling the strings, don’t you?
More words from Kevin Covel, who was disinvited from J Street, and he is not backing down –
WHY I AM NOT A ZIONIST
Barack Hussein Obama has put many smiles on the face of Israel Lobby at the cost of American interests during the past 10 months. His latest test would be how to put a big smile on the faces of both J-Street and Z-Street, by nuking the Iranian medical isotope factory.
Ahmadinejad: ‘Zionist regime a threat to all nations’
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/ahmadinejad-zionist-regime-a-threat-to-all-nations/
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