Re the arrest in Israel of American-Israeli Jack Teitel, alleged Jewish terrorist. Oh sure: he’s unstable. What I want to know is when are they going to demolish his home… his mama’s home… and his cousins’ home too?
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Seham, read the NYT piece by Ethan Bonner side by side with the CNN report. You will find this curious phenomenon:
NYT:
The officers said they found weapons, ammunition and a weapons laboratory in his house. They also said he had smuggled weapons from the United States when he immigrated.
and, for clarification:
He went back and forth between Israel and the United States starting in the 1990s, immigrating here in 2000.
link to nytimes.com
Now, CNN:
According to police, the long series of attacks began in 1997, when Teitel entered Israel as a tourist and managed to smuggle a handgun on board a British Airways flight to Tel Aviv.
So, despite his mental instability, Teitel manages to evade detection on at least two occasions, in 1997 and 2000, smuggling arms into Israel. CNN and the NYT never mentions (Did that sub-genius Bonner even ask?) how Teitel managed to do this without the assistance of US and Israel customs.
Teitel managed to do this without the assistance of US and Israel customs.
To be perfectly honest with you, neither the US nor Israel are as capable, security wise, as they claim to be. You’ve got TSA agents in the US with a history of missing prohibited items – in news reports as far back as 2002 – and upon arrival in Israel, Jews are rarely given a second look, just a nod, a smile and with an Israeli accent “Welcome to Israel”. Meanwhile, the security personnel are busy harassing an old Arab woman dressed in traditional clothing.
Nolan, it may well be simply a matter of incompetence. There is plenty of that to go around. When I say ‘customs’ I am referring to a blind eye or two, not governmental complicity. I travel quite a bit internationally, and from my experience serial official incompetence in the midst of a decades-long crime spree, including weapons smuggling, seems unlikely.
I travel quite a bit internationally, and from my experience serial official incompetence in the midst of a decades-long crime spree, including weapons smuggling, seems unlikely.
I was a bit slow on the uptake.
Now I see what you’re saying.
One time, leaving, not entering Ben-Gurion I was taken out of line and brought to a room and interrogated. I was in line with 70 other Jews leaving from a 3 week tour.
You don’t know what you are talking about Nolan……
Only once, Yonira? If you were Palestinian it would be every time.
Only once, Yonira? If you were Palestinian it would be every time.
Exactly.
As for the “70 other Jews” claim I find it dubious at best, unless of course, they were members of Gush Shalom or 70 clones of Jeff Halper or Norman Finkelstein – who was deported and banned from Israel on his last visit. Then that claim would make sense.
Of course, you could be Finkelstein, in which case, you wouldn’t even be allowed into Israel.
Yes Marc, I noticed.
***The Palestinians prevented a different Israeli terrorist from carrying out a massacre at Al Aqsa on Sunday, btw.
According to Israelis that guy was just crazy.
link to maannews.net
If he were a “crazy” Palestinian, his entire family would have been arrested by now and the police would be playing psychological warfare with him by threatening to rape his wife if he didn’t admit he was a Hamas member.
You also forgot that the IDF would have sent a bulldozer to demolish their home, leaving the entire family homeless as well and making way for yet another Jewish condo commissioned by a dual-citizenship real estate baron.
And in a week he’ll be on the streets again, armed and fantatical.
I was in line w/ 70 other Jews from Temple Sinai, and the only person taken out of line.
I was just refuting the fact that Jews aren’t scrutinized. We all know its not on a level as most non-Jews, but there is scrutiny.
Also I really don’t believe he was able to sneak semi-automatic rifles into Israel. If it happened, it was a total breakdown of security @BG.
Yonira, of course we know Jews are scrutinized. You can ask people like Max Blumenthal or any Jew who has ties to NGOs or human rights organizations about that. I’m guessing once they sorted out you were a loyal Zionist, they let you on your way.
And like I said. If it were 70 Palestinians, it wouldn’t have been just one person taken out of the line.
What I want to know is when are they going to demolish his home… his mama’s home… and his cousins’ home too?
First off, you should know better. The man is a full fledged Zionist and a Jew. That means, not only is he above the law in Israel, but also in the US. That’s point one.
Second, he is not an enemy combatant, nor is he a goy.
Third, even if he did have his home demolished, he could fly to Florida and back again to Tel-Aviv and make Aliya, then he’ll move to a colony and get all kinds of tax breaks and incentives and a swimming pool to boot.
{Sarcasm off}
Jewish terrorists have been killing Palestinian and other non-Jews in terrorist attacks since the 1850s-1860s.
Jewish Zionists have been murdering American citizens with impunity while the FBI wastes time targeting the poorest of the poor in Detroit: neda, marwa, rachel, suraideh, abir, henryk.
Stephan Walt seems to implicitly identify the Israel Lobby as a genuine threat to America: [WALT] “SCARY MONSTERS”: A Halloween Tribute List.
The sincerity of a “pro-Palestinian” Jew is in doubt unless he or she demands the arrest of any Jew that has served in the IDF or in IDF terrorism training under the anti-terrorism laws: [truthdig] israel’s toy soldiers.
GS: The sincerity of a “pro-Palestinian” Jew is in doubt unless he or she demands the arrest of any Jew that has served in the IDF
So where should I turn myself in? While we’re at it, I suggest a similar “test” for any US citizen who supports Afghani, Iraqi, etc. rights. I’d like to request our very own Citizen as my cellmate ;-)
There is another contrast though. Is Teital honored for his terror? I haven’t heard it.
The parents of suicide bombers usually were.
Seham,
When that occurred, honoring the parents of suicide bombers for their martyrdom, did you think that was a good thing, or not so good?
Honestly.
What’s interesting about RW’s posts is the continual demonstration of moral blindness combined with the sense of moral superiority.
So when the IDF commits atrocities in Gaza, I suppose you’ll tell us that the Israelis all hang their heads in shame and recite in unison “Not in my name.”
And when the Israeli government imposed a blockade, punishing all Gazans, Israelis all protest. So do you, I don’t doubt, because you are so opposed to boycotts and sanctions.
Oh, wait, that isn’t true, is it?
Are you f-ing kiding? Jewish terrorists like Irgun have their own medal or ribbon in Israel. And Bibi celebrated the King David Hotel bombing or something years back. Israel elected Begin.
More lying from the Nazi, Witty.
Don’t forget ‘david raziel street’.
Also? The sons of Irgun terrorists have gone on to accolades themselves, like becoming Senator, and then Presidential Chief of Staff.
Zionist terrorism has been very profitable for Jewish Israeli families.
Damn, Witty, we’re still waiting for you to care about even a single Palestinian death at the hands of an Israeli. Then maybe you’ll have a modicum of moral authority for these screeds.
Witty you’re such a racist. Are you asking me if I do the zaghrouda (ul ul ul) and toss out Jordan almonds when Palestinians blow themselves up?
No, I don’t.
Am I going to condemn Palestinians for how they choose to cope though?
Nope, not going to do that either.
Just in case you didn’t know, Palestinians don’t blow themselves up for sport. It’s because about 99% have had a combination of the following:
-had a loved one slaughtered by the Israeli Occupation Forces
-had their land stolen
-had their homes demolished
-had a loved one in prison for nothing
-been to prison and tortured for nothing
-unable to make money to eke out a decent living for their loved ones because of checkpoints and other Israeli restrictions on their daily activities
-had a loved one die of preventable disease because the Israeli military apparatus denied them access to medical treatment
I can go on and on Witty. So while I won’t sit applaud when Israeli civilians die, I won’t be cruel enough to make demands on how some of the survivors in Palestine choose to cope when their loved ones seek revenge for the crimes of the Israeli occupation.
Witty do you ever question the images or information that the Zionist media cherry pics to show on the nightly news? Are you that dumb? Or are you merely pretending that you don’t know fully comprehend how to use the internet and do a bit of research. Surely, you knew about the horrors of the Israeli occupation before you discovered Mondoweiss?
Seham, Witty chooses actively not to see. Half the time, when there are articles documented evidence of Israeli crimes, Witty wrings his hands and bemoans how the Palestinians “made” the Israelis act in “self defense.” The other half, he is completely absent from those articles, and shows up later posting the same regurgitated hasbara as if the facts don’t exist, and the rest of us end up having to post the same sort of responses to every time.
I’m almost to the point where I’m simply going to make a list of bookmarks I can cut and paste in reply to his posts, rather like I did under my “Memory Alpha” persona back on Huff Po.
And also, I agree with you — Witty is in fact the worse sort of racist. At least carnas, yonira and WJ wear it on their sleeves — Witty is the “white guy in an expensive suit” sort of racist, making snide, pseudo-intellectual remarks instead of crude epithets and pretending to be “fair.”
“The parents of suicide bombers usually were. ”
Not nearly as much as those that perpatred the bombing of the King David Hotel and the massacre at Desir Yassin. They were honored with election to the office of Prime Minister, and the 60th anniversary of their terrorist acts were celebrated 60 years later.
“When that occurred, honoring the parents of suicide bombers for their martyrdom, did you think that was a good thing, or not so good?”
How is that nay different to honoring the pilots of F-16 planes that drop cluster bombs and White Phosphorous on children?
Honestly indeed.
“Here lies the saint, Dr. Baruch Kappel Goldstein, blessed be the memory of the righteous and holy man, may the Lord avenge his blood, who devoted his soul to the Jews, Jewish religion and Jewish land. He was killed as a martyr of God on the 14th of Adar, Purim, in the year 5754.”
From the tomb of Baruch Goldstein who took a machine-gun and slaughtered 29 Muslims and injured 125 others during Friday prayers on Purim day, February 25th, 1994, in the Cave of the Patriarchs. Regarded as the first suicide attack in the Holy Land since Samson and said to be the the inspiration for the first suicide attacks by Palestinians.
Graveside party celebrates Hebron massacre
link to news.bbc.co.uk
It is very interesting to see the Beeb refer to this act of terrorism as “the Hebron massacre.”
The Israeli press refers to it as the Hebron massacre. When was the last time the Palestinian press referred to a suicide bombing as a massacre? I’m still waiting.
No, the Israeli press usually uses the phrase to describe the 1929 event.
“When was the last time the Palestinian press referred to a suicide bombing as a massacre? I’m still waiting. ”
Well seeing as Israel insists that Jenin was not a massacre, even though 52 Palestinians were killed, why is a suicide bombing, that usually kills only a handful a massacre?
It’s referred to as a massacre:
MASSACRE AT THE TOMB OF THE PATRIARCHS IN HEBRON
link to mfa.gov.il
And here it is from the Hebrew wikipedia:
link to he.wikipedia.org
Of course it’s referred to as A massacre. It was a massacre.
The question is which event is more commonly referred to as THE Hebron massacre, and the answer is the event of 1929.
Both are massacres, and since the one in 1929 predates the other it’s not too surprising if people refer to it as the Hebron massacre. So what?
“Of course it’s referred to as A massacre. It was a massacre.”
How do the Palestinians refer to the Park Hotel massacre? I’m still waiting.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Gee, carnas, do they refer to it as a “legitimate military target” the way I’ve heard pretty much every Zionist characterize the terrorist bombing of the King David Hotel?
link to en.wikipedia.org
There is no “so what?” If you weren’t here purely to impute vile motives to other posters in a hostile manner, instead of engaging in productive discussion, you might have noticed that I said the change in usage was “very interesting.” So that.
“Is Teital honored for his terror?”
He might make PM yet.
Menachim Begin:
King David Hotel Massacre, Deir Yassin Massacre, the Sergeants affair.
Yitzak Shamir:
The Assassination of Count Bernadotte, 70 postal bombs to British MPs, offer of collaboration to Germany, assassination Lord Moyne.
Ariel Sharon:
Sabra Shatilla etc.
Great summation Brewer.
That was a good “circle-jerk”.
A real friend not only has his friend’s “back”, but also provides some guidance to their behavior, some accountability.
It is relevant for the US to do that for Israel, to be friend in both meanings of the term, helper and critic.
It is also relevant for dissent to be that friend in both meanings of the term. Otherwise, they just become enablers.
In this case, relative to Hamas, Phil’s negligence to even QUESTION in December, instead conform in some Pavlovian fashion, and your petty negligence to question Hamas’ decisions (with clearly horrible consequences), supplies your friends’ heroin because you are unwilling to say “no”.
The likud/cherut/Jabotinsky Zionist view SHARES the worldview that you propogate, that it is better to fight than to endure suffering. Both reject the concept that the other has something to say, and that tangible reconciliation is possible.
ONLY anger drives actions, not thought, not human consideration. And, in discipline to retain anger as motivation for all action (not thought), you condemn those that propose reconciliation as complicit, rather than reconciliation as an asseritive action of one’s own dignity.
Its not in your palette.
What is the relevance of whether Phil questioned Hamas’s actions in December or January? Have you nevber heard the saying that the first causalty of war is the truth? I’d say that Phil demonstrated wisdom in waiting for the facts to reveal the truth of what took place in Gaza.
Tell me Richard, when a woman is being raped and in danger of being murderd by her assailant, should she:
a) fight back and try to get away, or
b) refrain from resiting and consider what drove her assailant to want to attack and and try to solve his mental condition?
You’re desperation is all to obvious and you are becomming utterly derranged and disconnected.
Phil isn’t in that position, of fighting back personally. He’s in the journalistic position of commenting on significant events that he doesn’t in truth know confidently, and therefore to inquire is his most responsible approach.
It was his brand, his journalistic creed, that he didn’t assume, didn’t judge, but questioned and probed deeply.
Financier, heal thyself. And you do, Witty?
Shingo, you forgot option C which Hamas chose:
c)wear something really slutty in front of a convicted rapist and then when he gets worked up enough you put your sister in front of you and allow her to be raped, while you sit in your luxury apartment in Damascus.
…so in your analogy, yonira, the Israelis are the convicted rapist? Huh.
Good point Chaos4700,
It looks like Yonira stepped into his/her own trap, admitting that Israel is afoul beast adn even worse, than a woman who dresses provocatively is deserving of what comes to her.
So much for Isrla being a progressive soceity. According to Yoni, it has more in common with Saudi Arabia than the west. That would explain why the US supports both.
If anything, if in presenting Palestinians’ view on the issues, Phil ONLY presents the “Angry Arab” perspective, when there are in fact others that are more assertive and definitively humanist in contrast to solely political (I’ve met my Abrahamic 50, as I’ve stated elsewhere), then he will be perpetuating a myth about Paletinians/Arabs as well.
It doesn’t imply that criticism conflicts with humanism, but a humanist SEES the person(s) on the other side, as persons, and not only through their lens of rage.
Its necessary. And, in Phil’s case, it is likely a negligence.
Again, to repeat a conversation that I had with Michael Lerner, who described to me that he felt that “tough love” was relevant in relation to Israel. I responded that if repeated over 30 years (or any extended period monochromatically), the “tough love” becomes both seen as only “tough” (not the love), and actually becomes only “tough” and not the love.
So, if Phil currently identifies as a Jew, then the actual “tough and loving” approach would be relevant (with a requirement to repeatedly refresh the love), and he has renounced his Jewishness, then the human “tough AND loving” approach would be the most relevant for a humanist with a sensitive (if not also thick) skin.
Attent to minimally harm, and maximally eco-socially help.
Wrong Richard,
Phil is not only presneting the Arab or Palestinian prespective, he is presneting the vewi of the overwheling majority of the world. It’s about time you jettisoned your arguments about humanism too. You have amply demomnstrated that you are no humanist.
We see what you are doing Richard. Now that you are backedin to a corner and exposed your fangs and your true idelogy, you are now trying to appeal to Phil’s Jewish identity to assuage his attitue and criticism of Israel. He has not renounced his Jewishness and nor should he.
Phil stands as a beacon to true Jewishness, honesty, humanism, justice and courage. It is people like Phil that will remind the world of the true virtues of Jwish values, while you, well you will simply fade anyway into irrelevance.
What’s true Jewishness? Or true Christianity? Or Islam?
There isn’t. There’s people who are peaceful and honest and sincere, and then they are Jew/Christian/Muslim.
Phil is a humanist first. A Jew second. That’s the model to follow. Being universal and fair. Not playing rhetorical games. Not being a lawyer. Being sincere. Talking straight.
Witty is the opposite. He is “Jewish” – his construct of Jewish identity – first. Then whatever else.
I would hope that Phil rose to be the example of true Jewishness.
On humanism, there is humanism as a universal creed (with no body, no “I”), and universalism in place.
Progressive Zionism is universalism in place. “WE” endeavor to simultaneously clearly self-identify, self-govern, and “WE” endeavor to do so with sensitivity and help to the other.
Likud clearly is not that. I have qualms about Kadima and labor. I have equal qualms about dissent.
I’ve met my Abrahamic 50 among Palestinians (sufficient to not harm collectively), but I’ve also met my 250 angry Arabs (sufficient to need to defend).
Dissent also needs to rise to the level of humanism, so that its criticism is not genocidal in word or deed.
If we both rise to that, we will make peace. If we adopt the ends justify the means, and willingly drop our skepticism and our humanist conscience, then we will exacerbate war (in which power and not human consideration is what determines what happens).
“I would hope that Phil rose to be the example of true Jewishness.”
This is why I keep saying that Zionists are the biggest threat to Jews today. You’re not the gatekeeper of “true Jewishness.” That sort of attitude is what gave the Nazis power and “authority.” Who would have thought that the second incarnation of the Spanish Inquisition wouldn’t be run by Christians this time?
“I’ve met my Abrahamic 50 among Palestinians (sufficient to not harm collectively), but I’ve also met my 250 angry Arabs (sufficient to need to defend).”
In other words, there’s a small minority of Palestinians living in Sodom who live up to Witty’s standards, so for their sakes it would not be right to rain fire and brimstone and white phosphorus on them collectively. But the vast majority are “angry Arabs”, like that blogger who goes by that name, and so maybe it’s okay to bomb them.
And blockading all 300–well, yeah, for self-defense purposes, sure, why not? Only 50 are innocent. Their suffering is the fault of their 250 angry brethren.
Presumably the percentage of “righteous ones” in Israel is much higher by Witty’s reckoning, which explains why BDS is not justified in their case.
A reasonable response to my assertion of “true Jewishness” would be “what do you mean by that?”, so if that is relevant at all (it certainly is a theme of Phil’s writing) could be discussed coolly.
I certainly have impressions (and am learning constantly) that are widely held, not superficial in the slightest, and would stimulate an informative and probing discussion.
That is different than accusing me of some suppression or racism or political danger.
We get it. You desire that those that hold different views on even key assumptions and reactions, be silenced, and you call that democracy.
And, oddly, like someone like Walzer and Finkelstein, when asked “what do you propose?” “what is your goal, in fact?”, the conclusions are very similar.
The far left doesn’t believe though that it can allow different “religious” (political) sequences to arrive at the same conclusion. It is too risky for them/you.
Oh, bullshit. How dare you waltz around here and attack people’s political (and personal) identities and then fall over and complain that you’ve been victimized by “anti-democratic fascists” when people stand up to you.
I’ve dealt with bullies like you all my life, Witty. You’re a weak, phony, prevaricating morally bankrupt failure why can’t put his hands on a keyboard without generating hypocrisy. It’s because of Joe Lieberman style politicians who walk the same circuitous paths that of “real” Jews / “real” liberals / “real” moralist hypocrites that are killing this country. People like you took is into Iraq. People like you got the Patriot Act sponsored into law. People like you block meaningful reform.
Making out that you’re being silenced by the nasty left when your arguments have been destroyed is a well worn path for lunatics everywhere.
If you can make it seem like you’re being forced into silence you’re onto a winner; why would anyone want to keep him quiet, surely he must have something potentially incendiary to say.
Actually I for one would be happy to discuss “true Jewishness”–I’m not secular and don’t think everyone needs to come at issues from the same viewpoint. Past experience, though, has repeatedly demonstrated that you are not the person you advertise yourself to be, and any discussion of basic human values and compassion that comes from you rings hollow given your double standards on human rights.
A real version of someone who has empathy for both sides is Lawrence Wright, whose article on Gaza just came out in the latest issue of the New Yorker. It’s not perfect, IMO, but any criticisms I have of it are tiny. I expect Phil will write about it soon. Wright is the sort of person you pretend to be, someone who really does strive to be fair to the feelings of people on both sides of the conflict. Unlike you and unlike a few people on the pro-Palestinian side, he doesn’t whitewash or justify the crimes of one side or the other.
Someone who does empbsy true “true Jewishness” is British MP, Gerald Kauffman. Here is a man, who is an ardent Zionist, yet is a Jew first, meaning that his humanity, sense of justice and morality come before his allegiance to a pact to support Israel unconditionally.
When Witty speaks about “true Jewishness”, he doesn’t mean “true Jewishness” at all, but Zionist solidarity.