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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
link to dover.idf.il
On the 1 year anniversary of Operation Cast Lead, here’s the IDF’s new hasbara website, crowing about its military supremacy, the successes of the war, and drooling with lust over the new weaponry that was used “for the first time” on the civilian population.
Operation Cast Lead marked the initiation of a number new weaponry systems in the IDF
“Showing Sderot to the World”
and making sure the world never sees Gaza.
Yonira, sweetie? Here’s some more Gazan children for you to mock. Also, some more testimony for you to deny, Witty, too. Should be like… well, taking candy from a child for someone like you.
when have I ever mocked Gazan children? are you bringing back the painted donkey thing? Didn’t I already de-bunk that thread? I was mocking the person who said “Zionism made them paint the donkeys” I found that funny.
Zionism is responsible for lots of stuff, but painted donkeys :)
link to mondoweiss.net
See, the problem with the internet, yonira, is all that stuff that was on the screen before? Doesn’t actually go away forever just because you click on a new link.
oh yeah conclusive evidence i don’t care about Gazan children there.
You know what’s funny? If I remember correctly, at least six scientists in Nazi Germany got Nobel Prizes and they utilized that as propaganda that they were “racially superior” just like you did.
Imagine, just imagine if we Americans got to see these kids for just 1 minute on national television.
Just imagine.
All the propaganda in the world wouldn’t be able to dehumanize Palestinian people if all we got was one minute with these brave children.
racial superiority? where did that come from? You got quite the imagination, no wonder Second Life appeals to you so much.
For the record…… ahhh screw it, you’re hopeless!
Why bother? Do you really expect them to care simply because there is a face to the victims?
No, obviously, but pointing out how immoral and vicious and callous they are makes me feel better about verbally assaulting them. I’m guessing people think I enjoy what I do. I don’t. I do it because I feel an obligation to remind people how ugly the nature of the people we are dealing with here.
I think you have to take it for granted that they feel no shame, that no matter how many victims are laid before them, they are too busy feeling their victimhood to actually look past their own “anguish” at what the victims are feeling. I am not comfortable with bringing victims before such people. It seems voyeuristic to indulge their self pity.
If you presented the memories of the children of Gaza with the memories of the children of Sderot, then you could have made a convincing statement for reconciliation and decency for Palestinians.
In picking ONLY Palestinian experience to report, you demonstrate the militant approach, the advocacy for Palestinian militancy, rather than the advocacy for civilian values of safety and interaction.
Its a great tragedy of the solidarity form of dissent. Even if it conflicts with your view that the Palestinians deserve more attention as more obvious victims, the solidarity approach keeps the approach at either/or, rather than at any sincere attempt to make a change from the current status.
How about the children of Najd, Witty? How about them?
The children of Najd are the children of Gaza , Sderot is an occupied Palestinian village and it is a war crime under the Geneva conventions for the occupying army to fill it with civilians after dispossessing the natives.
So if you want to show any pictures of the “children of Sderot” show them to the occupation army, that displaced the natives of Najd and replaced them with Jews.
Sammy, so you are using the argument that all Israel is occupied and every civilian in Israel is illegal?
I’m Indian, I don’t see what the difference is between 1948 and 1967. Even if there is a two-state solution, which Israel will never permit, there is still the same question about the rights of indigenous people within the 1948 borders.
yonira, how can you deny that all Israel is occupied territory?
So all of Indian and Pakistan is occupied also? The only difference between India and Pakistan and Israel and Palestine is the UN partition was accepted in India Pakistan and it was not accepted in Israel Palestine.
I don’t deny that there is a military occupation in Gaza and the WB. But to say all of Israel is occupied is crazy. You need a nation state for an occupation. Are you saying that Israel is occupying itself? If that is the case, I suppose the US is occupying itself also?
No, the difference is that the Jewish population of Palestine infiltrated into the country in an attempt to make it their own nation.
The Hindu and Muslim populations of India were both living under the occupation of the British Empire but were unable to agree on a unified state when the Brits withdrew.
And there are no Europeans imposing a settler colonial state.
Thats an important distinction. We’re all natives, Indians and Pakistanis.
yonira why do we have to believe in religious myths? how can you be sure that Palestinians are not the indigenous people of Palestine?
Did you read Sholmo sand “The invention of the Jewish people” book?
Oooh! Actually, yeah, let’s put side by side photos of every single rocket attack on Sderot with every single photo of the destruction of Gaza we can find, Witty. Let’s put them side by side and be completely objective about it, yes?
Oh yeah Witty, because there’s an equivalence between the suffering of Sderotian children and Gazan children, isn’t there? Of course, you can’t mention Palestinian suffering without counter-balancing it with Israeli suffering – that would just be evil, wouldn’t it?
I mean, what’s the difference between having to spend 30 minutes in a bomb shelter worrying about whether you room got hit and despairing about the possibility of your family being wiped out overnight by a bomb dropped by an F-16 and your inability to hide in a bomb shelter because Israel doesn’t allow them to be built?
Richard,
Trying to create equivalence between the children of Sderot and the children of Gaza doesn’t work: the numbers simply don’t allow it. On a one-to-one basis, yes, the tragedy of a Sderot victim matches that of a Gazan victim but that’s where the equivalence stops. Gazan victims aren’t just far more numerous, Sderotians have far more choices than Gazans.
Equivalence is an irrelevant comment. The question is of how Adam’s posts are presented.
In ONLY condemning, he commits to the approach of militancy, which is a failing approach. An alternative approach is the opposition to violence, opposition to aggression, which is more principled and more convincing.
We saw this same juxtaposition during the Vietnam War. Even in the pacifist AFSC, there were some that took partisan solidarity positions, rejecting the idea of objection to violence, instead objecting to dominance (and sometimes adopting assertively militant positions in the name of non-violence).
Thankfully, more stuck to their principles, though they weren’t the loudest and AFSC got a permanent smear that it took a decade to clarify, and still attracted militants that distorted their message.
Really? I don’t see much text other than the title. Are you saying he must qualify every attempt to portray the difficulties faced by Gazan children, with that of Sderotian children?
Since when has Adam been militant? Or the anti-war protesters? And why do you assume that every commenter here is on the left?
When was the last time you mentioned the plight of Palestinian children without placing the blame squarely on Hamas?
ROAR!!!
Rather than reconcile.
Reconcile with occupation? With apartheid? How does one reconcile with murder? Would you share your home with a Nazi?
It’s funny to think that if Witty were alive during WW2 and his logic prevailed, France and Poland (at the very least) would be speaking German nowadays.
His logic prevailed in many places. Hitler proved it, by sending Jews to several countries to be saved. Like the Palestinians today, no one wanted them and their choices were to perish or return. Remember the St Louis? That was just some Dick Witty putting his family, race and state before some “disease ridden Jews”.
link to ushmm.org
There have always been Dick Wittys who considered themselves as more worthy of charity than the actual victims. There will always be Dick Wittys and we should not waste our energies trying to make them be something they are not.
You know, all that salivating you’re doing while Gazan children talk about how scared they are and how much they suffered isn’t doing a whole lot to dispel the “blood libel” myth, Witty.
Here is an exercise in humanism for you, Witty.
Everytime you talk about a Palestinian, visualise a Holocaust victim and imagine you are talking about them. See how that feels.
Here, Witty. We’ll make it even easier for you. Remember this web site?
link to normanfinkelstein.com
Click on it as a reminder.
Lets get to the rubber meeting the road. The fact of the matter is that Israel planned its attack specifically with the children leaving their schools for maximum damage to innocent children. Than again, with the targeting of civilian neighborhoods, schools and general infrastructure they wanted to guarantee the killing of children.
Comparing the Gaza carnage to the rockets on Sderot is of a monstrous bad faith.
While the rocket attacks were certainly a war crime, the damage they caused was minimal. So much so that Sderot residents are now longing for the days when the problem was the Qassams, not poverty.
Yes, that’s right — the Sderot residents want the Qassams back so that the State won’t neglect them as it is doing now that the rockets are over. So much for the “permanent psychological damage” they suffered!
Huh. I guess one thing can be said about Israel when it uses Jewish people as human shields… at least the pay was good.
I find it rather laughable that we see now that Sderot was never an economically viable community in the first place — it only exists because A) Israel needed to raze a Palestinian village — Najd — and put something in its place, and B) they needed an excuse to park people close to the border with Gaza to generate lots of PR, the “war tourism” industry and an excuse to create a “kill zone” inside Gaza.
Zionists continue to be the worst enemy of the Jewish people.
Hey HB,
Fancy seeing you here!
Have you seen this video on the Gaza Freedom March on YouTube? Man, some disturbing images. . .
link to youtube.com
The irony of you fools’ comments comparing my attitude to nazis, or claiming that I bear no sympathy for Palestinians, is that in FACT, I do regard Palestinian civilians in an active compassionate light.
I hope that you think similarly of Israelis.
It would be wonderful if you considered the extent to which your militancy cements the relationships that keep Gazan Palestinians isolated.
Like the Warsaw ghetto? Yeah, those intransigent, unaccepting miltants. What were they thinking????
“…in FACT, I do regard Palestinian civilians in an active compassionate light.”
hahaha! With such compassion we could eradicate all but our own in the world and blow them a “compassionate” kiss. You are either a consummate liar or self-deceived Witty, either way it does the Palestinians no good as they perish. What an accomplished ass you are.
Witty, the only thing you have ever done at all with regarding the plight of the Palestinians is to claim that you are compassionate. Not once have you ever demonstrated that compassion. About the most generous thing you have ever said is, “It’s so sad, what the Palestinians have forced Israel to do to them.”
You have about as much compassion, I dare say, as the late Golda Meir. And just about as much integrity or honesty.
Witty, Palestinians are not the one who own F-16s and white phosphorus. How can the aggressor be the victim?
In your case you shed tears for the Palestinians and put the blame for their suffering under the Gaza blockade entirely on Hamas and the left. At the same time you fly into hysterics at the mere mention of sanctions of any sort against Israel. You regularly whitewash Israeli atrocities.
I think you have this pleasant illusion about yourself because you compare yourself to the sorts of Zionists that frequent the comment section at “Realistic Dove”. By that standard almost anyone looks compassionate.
I just read this story link to normanfinkelstein.com
and i am so angry!!!!