Roger Cohen has a piece in the Times today urging Obama not to allow the Iran nuke issue to become a Palestine-postponing pawn. I think that’s his phrase. Good. Cohen thereby insists on linkage, that American fortunes in the Middle East are linked to political progress for the Palestinians. (I’d give a link but I’m at my parents and the internet doesn’t really work for me.)
Now notice a curiosity of the Cohen story. He wants Netanyahu to make a new coalition with Kadima, a centrist party, in order to shuffle off his right wing and gain the ability to take on the settlers. If he gains Kadima’s seats in the Parliament, he won’t need those bad orthodox rightwing settler types. And that way Netanyahu can create the two state solution and preserve a Jewish democracy, Cohen says.
Notice that no one is suggesting that Netanyahu make a new coalition with Arab parties. I think there are about 10 or 15 seats in the "Arab" parties. You’d think there would be plenty Arab seats for him to pick up and thereby get rid of his right wing, maybe even govern from the center-left?
But no, Ehud Barak didn’t have anything to do with the Arab parties in 1999 when he formed his coalition, and Netanyahu wants nothing to do with them now. Didn’t want anything to do with ‘em last year when he first made a governing combination.
So: what kind of democracy, Jewish purple pink blue or yaller doesn’t enfranchise Arab parties in the political process of establishing leadership?
The same kind of democracy that we had in 1964 when the Democratic Party seated a segregated delegation from Mississippi in the presidential nominating process. At least then blacks in the north could vote. In the Israeli prime-ministerial process, the Palestinians are completely dealt out. Shouldn’t Americans know this, when we praise our shared values and the only democracy in the Middle East?
And, at the same time there are, or were, Arabs in the Labor party list, and one served as a cabinet level minister.
There are no greens in Congress either, and no libertarians.
This post is about the exclusion of the Arab parties from government, not about the one single Arab who has reached the Cabinet in the last 60 years by aligning himself with a Zionist party. That’s why it’s called “In the Jewish democracy, Arab parties aren’t ever considered for the governing coalition”.
How is joining a Zionist coalition, different from joining a Zionist party?
Feigning naive? This definitively feels so.
How is joining a Zionist coalition, different from joining a Zionist party? /b>
Maybe you can answer it for yourself, if you put it this way:
How is a Zionist Arab coalition, different from Arabs joining Zionist parties?
How is joining a Zionist coalition, different from joining a Zionist party?
It is an important question, where the weight of Israel’s governance stands:
Jewish democracy, Jewish Democracy, jewish Democracy? Democracy?
My preference is somewhere between the second and third, in which non-revolutionary Arab parties would be invited to join coalitions.
For reference, if an Arab party received 25% of the electoral vote in an election, it could conceivably be the party with the most votes and constitutionally be asked to attempt to form the government.
Is that possible? Maybe.
“Jewish democracy, Jewish Democracy, jewish Democracy? Democracy?”
No what you mean is democracy for Jews and only Jews.
When Arabs win elections in Israel they will get to call the shots.
“When Arabs win elections in Israel they will get to call the shots”
But wouldn’t that require the destruction of Israel first Jules?
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Yes! though this appears strange, but the Jewish character of the state is already strange anyway. This is one thing we cannot compare their system of government to the rest of the world on the basis of democracy or socialism. If the world recognizes the religious character of the Islamic states, they should also recognize the Judaic character of the Jewish State of Israel.
If they allow Arabs to join the government that is their choice, and no!, not one can question them…
Except that the world doesn’t recognize the religious character of “the Islamic states”. Using Iran as an example, the world recognizes the regime in Tehran as the return address for international relations with Iran – that’s what diplomatic recognition means – but we don’t “recognize” their claim to be an Islamic republic. We call their country the Islamic Republic of Iran solely because we recognize the Tehran regime as the government of Iran, and as such they get to name the country whatever they want. It’s just a name, not an endorsement of one religion over another, which diplomatic recognition has nothing to do with. If they call themselves The Blue Cheese Republic of Iran we would call them that too, because choosing their own name is their prerogative; it doesn’t mean we really think they’re made of blue cheese. By the same token, we called East Germany the German Democratic Republic, regardless of whether or not we really thought it was a democracy.
The Palestinians have already said that if Israel wishes to be known as “the Jewish state of Israel” they will call it that, just as they call Iran “the Islamic Republic of Iran”. But Israel isn’t asking for the same kind of recognition as a Jewish state that Iran has as an Islamic state. In fact, the argument that “Israel just wants the same recognition that Iran has” is a good indicator that the person making the argument either doesn’t know what Israel is asking for in demanding recognition as a “Jewish state” or doesn’t know how little we are actually recognizing when we call Iran as “Islamic republic”.
Israel wants recognition as a Jewish state not only in name, which is what we give the Islamic Republic. Israel wants recognition not only as “the Jewish state of Israel” but also wants international approval for its claim that it is really only a state for all Jewish people everywhere, and is therefore entitled to a pass on discriminating against (and killing and disfranchising and dispossessing) its citizens and subjects who are not Jewish. This is quite different from the purely nominal recognition we give to Iran as an Islamic republic, or any other country whose full names we use purely as a diplomatic courtesy, not because we are commenting one way or another on what we think of their ideology.
Thanks, Diane. Well done, and a lot better than I could have. I start foaming when they start with the Main Hasbara Point No.4 (The Whole World Sucks, so Israel can suck as bad as anybody does or ever has.
Gosh, for a nation which was supposed to bring the blessings of the West to the Middle East, it looks like Israelis have found the quasi-religious and corrupt basis for governing quite attractive. They always tell us that a Islamic-Republic style government is what they aspire to.
To say “Israel wants” is to ignore that there is serious discussion within Israel on this subject, that it is the content of electoral and legal argument.
I’m sure all that “serious discussion” means a lot to Palestinians being run over by Israeli tanks.
yawn, is Tuesday already?
To those very few Palestinian Israelis that are being run over by Israeli tanks (are there ANY?), probably not.
To the 20% of Israeli citizens that are Arab, a relative electoral voice IS important, whether that results in more just distribution of government social service funding, or participation in coalition.
Those Israeli citizens are Palestinian Richard.
Stop deluding yourself by actually believing that a state built on ethnic cleansing and racism will ever grant a modicum of equal rights to those that don’t fit its racial criteria.
Israel has yet to drop any of the wide assortment of laws that discriminate against its Palestinian citizen (nor to mention the lack of any human rights for those Palestinians currently under Israeli military occupation who are under Israeli jurisdiction).
Until Israel drops Zionism and agrees to become a state of its citizens, these inequalities, and the abuse of human rights that come with them will linger on and continue to fester.
Are there ANY Palestinian Israelis that are being run over by tanks?
The degree of persecution within Israeli law has varied.
Elections make a difference, and they don’t change by magic. It takes political and intellectual work.
To my mind, it is clearly possible to be both democratic and Jewish. Key word is AND, not or.
those discriminated against are not just palestinians. Arrested for Post Zionism:
There are plenty of Palestinians that have been run over by Israeli tanks, along with Palestinians that have been shot in their homes, burned to death with chemical weapons, bulldozed to death in their homes, had 2 ton bombs dropped on their homes, carpet bombed, etc.
In any case Palestinian-Israelis may have it slightly better, but they also tend to be killed by Israeli forces for non-violently protesting as well.
To my mind, it is clearly possible to be both democratic and Jewish. Key word is AND, not or.
This would ONLY work if what you meant is having Jewish values be some sort of guiding platform for a democratic Israel that gave equal rights to all its citizens, and did not discriminate between Jewish or non-Jewish citizens.
However, that is not what “Jewish and Democratic” means according to Zionism. The Jewish part has nothing to do with morality whatsoever. The “Jewish” clause merely means that Israel will always be a “racially” Jewish state at the expense of its non-Jewish inhabitants who have either few rights and in most cases have ZERO rights.
Thus, Israel cannot under those circumstances be Jewish and Democratic. Currently more than half the people under Israeli jurisdiction have either significantly fewer rights or ZERO rights relative to those whom are Jewish Israeli, simply because Israel insistence on being “Jewish,” when a sizable chunk of the population under Israeli jurisdiction is in no way shape or form Jewish.
If Israel insists on being a racially Jewish state at the expense of the indigenous population of the land, then it can NEVER be Democratic. No amount of political reform can change that so long as one of Israels flagship demands is Jewish supremacy.
Palestinian Israelis? Those that can vote in Israeli elections we’re talking about.
“This would ONLY work if what you meant is having Jewish values be some sort of guiding platform for a democratic Israel that gave equal rights to all its citizens, and did not discriminate between Jewish or non-Jewish citizens.”
Israel can only be democratic if people work to make it so, as you point out.
“Jewish” means very different things. I ask the same questions that you did in asking whether being “Jewish” means applying Jewish values or Jewish association.
Israel is the combination of the two. AND.
Well, yes, Richard Witty, the key word is AND, not or. When we look to what the government of Israel means by AND, a problem arises; the problem is due to the reality that any creed is actually exhibited in the deed. Are any Palestinian Israelis being run over now by Israeli tanks? No. If a reasonably objective person looks at what’s happened in areas controlled by Israel for, say at a minimum, the last half century, what does such a person see?
The practical meaning of the “Jewish” in “Jewish State” boils down to either “Jewish-controlled”, “Jewish-majority” (by ethnic cleansing), or (for most Israelis, Zionists) both. You know this Richard.
And there is no mainstream debate about whether Israel must necessarily be either of those things. You know very well that people who challenge that idea are considered to advocate for “the destruction of Israel”.
Simply put, Israel is asking the Palestinians and the rest of the world to recognize Israel as the “State of the Jewish Nation.”
What nonsense. The “world” has no opinions. Who represents the world? progressives? you? Norway? Syria? How incredibly stupid to think there is a set of beliefs for the world.
Who represents the world?
What do you think the UN stands for?
How incredibly stupid to think there is a set of beliefs for the world.
Don’t worry. Supporters of the Zionist rogue-state would never understand that concept.
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In January 2007 Israel’s Labour party leader has appointed Raleb Majadele as science and technology minister – making him the first Arab Muslim in Israel’s cabinet since 1948. He served until March 2009.
Here’s an article from 2008 on Majadele’s problems as Science ad Technology Minister.
It was a rough summer for Raleb Majadele. Ensconced in his favorite cafe, on Tel Aviv’s Jabotinsky Street, he asks for permission to vent. He is fed up with being humiliated. He has felt like a hunted man since he was appointed minister of science, culture and sports 18 months ago.
“It’s obvious to me that something has lurched out of control,” he says quietly. “Since becoming a cabinet minister I have been constantly subjected to minor attacks, bits and pieces of racism, but lately something has changed, it’s gotten all out of proportion. I feel that this is no longer my personal issue. It is something bigger.”
more at link: link to haaretz.com
This was a great article, tree. Somehow I missed it at the time. The atmosphere Majdele talked about is as relevant today as it was then – except even more so, with racism having become entrenched in government.
Israel now is a microcosm of what things might be like in the US were the tea baggers to gain a controlling voice in government. A scenario wihere The Crazy are on the inside is what nightmares are made of here, but in Israel, where a party like national beiteinu is in the coalition, the rule of The Mad is reality already.
The grass roots movement called “tea baggers” have no leader; they have been
spurning the Republican inner circle; they are frustrated by any many things, but are united in that neither the Repus under Shub for 8 years, nor now, under Obama, do they see any root change in the getting and spending of the USA regime, which they feel is significantly at their expense sans any benefit to them. Is that something, Danaa,
that is so hard to comprehend? The concept of the tea bagging was meant to conjure up basic rights seminal to the founding of the USA, the Boston Tea Party,
not a fag joke, and why is it so bad for them to regain some power and control
and so good–for whom, I ask you, Danaa?
Is that how Israeli politics really works? That a PM can realign his coalition in “real time” and then make an about-face on policy? Tell Obama and the world that we are building settlements today, tomorrow, and forever in increasingly remote places (all conveniently called Jerusalem) and then–in an instant–say that, actually, we’ve stopped because we are so very, very desirous of negotiating with the Palestinians?
But your main point is that they refuse even to consider a coalition with Arab parties. Is that mere racism (or whatever the euphemism is when Israelis practice it–I know Zionism isn’t a form of racism, we all know that :: “nationalismism” ?) or is it merely practicality in that he’d lose all his other coalition partners (their nationalismism, not his, so to speak)?
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Likud + Kadima + Labor +Meretz makes a strong coalition. Even iirc w/o Meretz.
But BYahoo insisted on going for the right, instead, and may he suffer for his sins.
I’m surprised there is no mention here today of Land Day.
link to electronicintifada.net
Potsherd
To be fair (to myself, hehe) I did post a blurb and a link.. but true that wasn’t today but yesterday..
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“Shouldn’t Americans know this, when we praise our shared values and the only democracy in the Middle East? ”
“Shouldn’t Americans know this, when we praise our shared values and the only democracy in the Middle East? ”
American values in the Middle East are oil and dictatorship. Freedom and democracy are for the people of the centre, not people on the periphery like Arabs. If the US were interested in freedom it wouldn’t have destroyed Nasser and given diplomatic cover to 42 years of Israel’s land grab.
Israel is a sham democracy. Democracy in Israel was only made possible thanks to ethnic cleansing. Israel has not extended the vote to 3.5 million stateless Palestinians- that right in the West Bank is reserved for Jews.
To again quote myself (that’s why one keeps a blog; to have the arguments ready to copy-paste when needed):
In the final years of the Apartheid era in South Africa, Coloreds and Indians enjoyed political representation. They elected a Colored Parliament, with 85 MPs, and an Indian Parliament, with 45 MPs. The whites, for their part, elected a white parliament with 178 MPs. The three chambers combined formed the electoral college that appointed the President and the Cabinet. Thus, Colored and Indian MPs could give speeches, criticize the government, enact laws that applied to their communities, etc., but when it came to actually holding power, the result was inexorable: the President and the Cabinet ministers where all white, courtesy of the absolute majority the whites enjoyed in the electoral college. Indeed there were three parliaments, but one was all-important and the other two were irrelevant.
The Israeli Knesset combines both types of parliament in one and the same legislature. There are around 110 Jewish MKs, who make the decisions that affect the country, and 10 token Arab MKs, who can give speeches and complain all they wish, but who can never influence any act of government, much less one that affects them.
Thanks Hasbara Buster. I was going to make the same point as South African history is one of my main interests.
Arab Mks face a pretty severe limitation on enacting any change in the country when promoting equality is specifically prohibited: it is illegal for political parties to promote a platform that denies Israel’s existence as a “Jewish and democratic” state. Right there the lie of Israeli democracy is laid bare.
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If people want to know what the Palestinians face inside of Israel it is best to read their official documents which are available. You can see by what is called the “Vision Document,” what is missing as true citizenship and what they face which is antithetical to any form of “citizenship” anywhere by reading –
THE FUTURE VISION OF PALESTINIAN ARABS IN ISRAEL
This was written in 2006, things instead of getting better since that time have gotten much worse.
This document above (The Future Vision) provides the context of the difficulties in the political realm discussed in this post. It is impossible to understand what has been and is being done in the political realm without a knowledge of the broader context. Therefore, it should be mandatory reading for all who wish to discuss the topic in earnest.
If the Israeli government refused to form a coalition with one of the “Arab” parties because of the religion/ethnicity of its members, this would indeed reflect 1964 racism. But if the government refused/refuses to form a coalition based upon the party’s platform, there is nothing wrong with that. The fact that Netanyahu’s party has more in common with Lieberman’s party than it has in common with a nonZionist party may trouble you, but the comparison to 1964 Democrats is faulty.
Let me get this straight: Are you are implying that ‘Netanyahu’s party’ might be willing to enter into a coalition with a Zionist ‘Arab’ party? You don’t see any oxymoronic quality tucked into that logic? And if you could, please list the past governments in which a ‘Zionist’ (throat clearing noise inserted here) party has entered into a coalition with an ‘Arab’ party?
If the Arab parties essentially wish the government to dismantle the state: army, control of borders and symbols, then it is sensible that those who are devoted to the army, control of borders and symbols wouldn’t join with that party in a coalition.
So in answer to my question, no ‘Zionist’ parties have entered into coalitions with ‘Arab’ parties. And really, there is no need to be coy. When you euphamistically refer to control of borders and symbols, you’re talking about the maintenance of a system where Jewish citizens have greater rights than non-Jews. But there’s nothing 1964 in that.
Video of the Leveretts on Charlie Rose discussing Iran
link to raceforiran.com
Charlie Rose repeated the Iran “wants to wipe Israel off the map” hogwash. Flynt corrects Charlie Rose’s inflammatory rhetoric and claims about Iran.
Charlie Rose “we (Iran) want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth”
Flynt “I don’t think there is a statement on record, where properly translated where Ahmadenejad has ever said we or Iran or he wants to wipe Israel off the map”
THAT IS THE VERY FIRST TIME I HAVE HEARD ANYONE WHO HAS REPEATED THIS BULLSHIT CLAIM CORRECTED. And Charlie Rose repeated that false claim just the way the Israel and the I lobby like.
————————————————————————————————-
During today’s press conference with Sarkozy and Obama it was all bad bad Iran. Obama tried to present the myth that the Obama administration had really extended amazing offers to Iran only to be turned down. Of course we do not hear anyone in the Press ask any questions about the U.S. and Israeli efforts to support radical groups in Iran that want to take the Iranian government down. How the U.S. allegedly supports these efforts and how this support has constantly undermined any possibility of real negotiations with Iran as Flynt mentioned in the Charlie Rose interview
————————————————————————————————-
During this interview with Flynt and Hillary Leverett I found the absence of any criticism of Israel’s actions in the region by Charlie, Flynt and Hillary surprising? I thought Hillary’s focus on only what the Iranian President has allegedly said deeply disturbing. Far more inflammatory, threatening and unsubstantiated claims coming out of Israel’s leaders and the I lobby, Congressional leaders about Iran than has ever come out of Iranian leaders.
Just too damn bad that they could not even whisper about Israel’s continued aggressive actions and defiance of the international community and treaties. Not a whisper
thanks for the link, Kathleen.
Even tho no mention was made of Israel’s record of aggression and intransigence,
Hillary Mann did complain about being treated badly in Egypt (because she is Jewish).
Charlie Rose did take the opportunity to puff up like an alpha male in a suit with arms too short and a blue necktie to fulminate about the “cruelty” of a politician, Ahmadinejad, who would tweak and torment Israelis with wild rhetoric about holocaust. Holocaust I tells ya! sputter sputter. Flynt was unfazed. kewl.
Israeli Arab parties in a governing coalition, with some real power? Arabs treated as minority citizens with equal rights? I find this scenario extremely unlikely. Not only would this be an about face for Zionist ideology, but it would antagonize the religious Jews who consider that the “redemption of the land of Israel” is a divine mandate. Remember, Israel is not a normal western secular democracy, a nation of its citizens. A significant aspect of Zionism’s appeal was to provide a biblical justification for a secular deed, with predictable consequences. Yitzhak Rabin offered the Palestinians very little at Oslo, but was denounced in Israel and the Diaspora as a traitor, eventually assassinated. Any significant attempt to bring the Palestinian Arabs into the fold could quite possibly result in a civil war. This is a very serious matter with no easy solution.
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Israel has never recognized its Arab population as anything more than a token to be displayed to the world in face of charges against its so-called western democracy.
Weiss is engaging in an issue that warrants reflection and analysis at the root cause. This is just one of its symptoms, trivially dismissed as a matter of politics, not the institutional racism that has been a stronghold of Israel since its inception.
Arab MKs, from 3 parties, have 10 seats (8.3%) in the 120 seat Knesset, with which they represent 20% of the Israeli population, ie Israeli (Arab) citizens. Anything a little bit wrong with the numbers?
No, not at all; Avigdor Lieberman’s Yisrael Beitenu has 11 seats, and Shas, another far right party crucial to Netanyahoo’s coalition, has 15. Netanyahoo’s own party (Likud) has 27 seats, while Tzipi Livni’s party, Kadima (not a lot different from Likud) has 28, so should, by normal standards, be governing.
No, not at all; The system depends on who can cobble together a coalition of the 18 parties represented in the Knesset, even the shitty little far right Zionist parties that have around 10%, like Yisrael Beitenu and Shas, or Labor (Ehud Barak – 13 seats), or United Torah (5). But Arab members of the Knesset; no way.
Each of these parties (if they come into the coalition) is donated a a major position or two in the cabinet as a reward; thus Avigdor Lieberman, whose Yisrael Beitenu party won only 11 seats (9% of the vote) is awarded the position of Foreign Minister, representing all (including the other 90% who didn’t vote for him) of Israel to the world. Any of you can google his name and find out what a good job he’s doing.
The great ‘Israeli Democracy’ is a total mess, and no-one in their right mind needs to believe in it any more.
in case anyone is interested in Arab voter trends:
link to idi.org.il
A variation on the guiding theme: It’s all the Arabs fault? Yonira?
Or do you want us to notice the 2001 numbers only?
“‘Arab’ voter trends”
Which of the given reasons for the declining turnout do you consider most important?
What do you think about the trend that shows that the voter turnout of Israeli Jews “oriental” or European are not much different from “Arab Israelis”?
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55% of Illegal Israeli Settlers in Jerusalem al-Quds
“On the anniversary of the Land Day, the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics announces that more than 85% of Palestinian land remains under Israeli control, adding that 55% of illegal settlers reside in Jerusalem (al-Quds).
In a press statement issued on Tuesday, the Bureau stated that according to statistics, the number of outposts, settlements and military bases in the West Bank stood at 440, with the highest number of settlers located in Jerusalem (al-Quds).
According to the statement, the number of Israelis living in illegal settlements in the Jerusalem (al-Quds) governorate — such as the Gilo settlement near Beit Lahm (Bethlehem) — has reached 261,885. Some 198,458 of such illegal settlers live in East Jerusalem (al-Quds) settlements.”
link to palestinechronicle.com
In addition, some 23,100 housing units have been destroyed in the occupied Palestinian territory in the West Bank and Gaza Strip between 1967 and 2008.
According to a study conducted by The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), some 13,400 housing units from a total of 23,100 were destroyed between 2000 and the end of May 2009 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
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