Mustafa Barghouti in conversation with Chris Lydon of Brown’s Watson Institute, April 29, 2010. (Remember that Barghouti was on The Daily Show last year).
There isn't any place in the world where apartheid is so systematic as it is today in Palestine… You are talking about a situation where we the Palestinians are prevented from using all our main roads because they are exclusive for Israelis and Israeli Army and Israeli settlers. This did not happen even during the segregation time in the [United] States. People could not use the same bus or same restaurant. But here you can't use the same road even. I am an elected Member of Parliament. I ran for president in Palestine; I was second in the presidential race. I was born in Jerusalem. I worked as medical doctor, as a cardiologist, in a very important hospital in Jerusalem for 15 years. And since five years I am prevented, like 98 percent of the Palestinians, from entering Jerusalem. If I am caught in Jerusalem, I could be sentenced to seven years in jail.
This is unbelievable. You have a situation where a husband and a wife cannot be together. If a husband is from Jerusalem and his wife is from the West Bank, or the opposite, they cannot live together. Because if the husband or the wife comes to the West Bank they lose their ID, they lose their residency. And the wife or the husband from the other side cannot be granted citizenship in Jerusalem. We have never seen a situation where a country occupies a city like East Jerusalem and then declares the citizens of the city — who have lived there for hundreds, and some of the families for thousands of years — “temporary residents.” And if one of them goes out to study at Brown for five years for instance, they would lose their residency. This is what you see are acts of ethnic cleansing.
There isn't a place in the world where officially the policy is, if I have a person with a heart attack and I need to get him to a hospital in Jerusalem or in Israel, I have to get a military permit from a coordinator in the military headquarters. And this can take hours or days, or it can not be granted at all. I've had patients die in front of my eyes because I could not get them through the checkpoints. We had 80 women who had to give birth at checkpoints, and 30 of them lost their babies. And to me, the fact that a woman cannot give birth in a dignified manner, and having to give birth in front of foreign soldiers out in the street, is equal to the utmost injustice. Tell me, where does that happen anywhere in the world? And this is happening by a country that is claiming that it is a democracy and that it is civilized. And by people that have had suffering in the past. I mean, that's what amazes me, you know. People who understand how terrible it is to be discriminated against…
So we ask ourselves: how do we make the Israelis change their minds? How do we convince them to stop the oppressive system which is hurting our future and their future?
Can Jews go to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Oman, Bahrain, UAE, etc
So please stop talking about aparthied.
I know several who have been to those places.
In regards to apartheid, if the shoe fits .. and Desmond Tutu would know.
So its ok for you to be a racist as long as you can find someone else who is a racist.
I have to say though, it is a whole lot better that you choose to compare Israel to a theocracy like Saudi Arabia, than say a democracy like Sweden. I would like to congratulate you on recognizing which type of country Israel should be compared and contrasted to.
“I have to say though, it is a whole lot better that you choose to compare Israel to a theocracy like Saudi Arabia, than say a democracy like Sweden.”
Edwin, you don’t understand how this works. When the people in Saudi Arabia Kuwait, Jordan, Oman, Bahrain, UAE, etc. see what they have driven Israel to, they will be so sorry, and realise how bad they are!
And that’s when they will say “It’s all our fault”!
“So please stop talking about aparthied.”
Dave, don’t forget to breath noisily through your nose, flare your nostrils, narrow your eyes and ball your fists when you say that. It helps so much if you can look like you are right about to go over the edge and start swinging on the anti-Semites. Lends the necessary gravity to your arguments.
So please shove it, clown. And try spelling apartheid correctly.
I strongly suspect this is completely false. It may be the case that ISRAELIS cannot go to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Oman, Bahrain, UAE, etc, but American servicemen, including American Jews, are stationed or have been stationed in all of these nations.
Refusal to grant visas to Israeli citizens is not apartheid. Nor is it ethnic cleansing and colonization masquerading as permanent military occupation. I agree with you DavidSiden that we should not be calling what Mustafa Barghouti describes ‘apartheid’. It is much, much worse.
Yes, they can.
Another ignorant Zionist reading from his copy of Hasbara for Dummies and imaging that he’s scoring big points in debate.
Potsherd:
The Bargouti quote does not cite sources. It’s o.k. to question whether it is correct. Raising the question is not “Hasbara.” A meaningful way to advance the discussion would be to look for factual support (statute, regulation, news articles, etc.). That would be a service to the site. Throwing around personal insults is not debate and does a disservice.
IB, you really have to go read the writers for the Hasbara Commission. The question is exactly about Habara.
Because Barghouthi has this commodity known as “credibility”, with which you may not be familiar.
Citizen: I get that asking questions in order to create doubt can be distracting, and annoying (and maybe illegitimate) if the question is raised disingenusously. However, in general it’s very hard to judge when someone has an honest question vs. a tactical question. To knee jerk start insulting everyone who raises a question beause you suspect the motive might not be pure is not the correct response, I think.
Avi: I have great respect for Barghouti, and I am assuming that what he says is correct. However, Israel/Palestinian politics are heated, as you know, and there will adherents to both camps as well as neutrals. Activism of the sort represented by this site is hard work. The task here is to chase down and refute false information, to illuminate, and to answer questions raised–whether you think they are raised in good faith or bad. Simply insulting people doesn’t do the heavy lifitng that is required. It is lazy and unproductive.
DavidSiden,
Jews can go. Israelis can’t.
Pick your poison.
Exactly, this is a classical tactic, lets twist the whole world.
Mooser knows about this: We rock and they sucks!
Can DavidSiden tell us if citizens from these countries are allowed to go to Israel? And if any of these countries have violated the sovereignty of Israel in the past? and what do you expect from countries like UAE if Israeli mafia violate its sovereignty to commit crimes like Dubai fiasco?
The Arab League is justified in isolating Israel. They’ve promised to normalize relations with Israel if Israelis accept the Arab Peace Plan. That Peace Plan adheres to U.N. Resolutions 181, 194 and 242.
The ball is in Israel’s court! However, Israel would rather cling to injustice and oppression of Palestinians rather than respect the rule of law and previous commitments!
The Arab league is not justified in punishing individuals for the actions of their country. Two wrongs do not make a right – in spite of what what davidsiden thinks.
i know two very jewish people who just came back from Qatar and saudi Arabia. One is an ex-Israeli, in fact.
israelis, as we know also can go to Dubai – on passports they cull and forge from their own citizen. The purpose for the trip is usually the business of assassination. So yes, can’t blame the police for keeping out those intent and bent on criminal activity. I mean, even America is trying to keep out known members of the Sicilian and Russian mafias (emphasis on trying. Not so successful especially with the russian mafia). Since to the best of our knowledge, crime and death is the main industry israeli representatives exported to dubai and qatar, there should be every reason in the world to keep them out of lots of places – and not just on the Arab peninsula.
My name is Abba Foxmannucci and I demand that you cease at once your vicious anti-Mafiatic slurs against the Italian people. If you wish to discuss criminal gangs and thugs, please call them by their rightful names: Israeli thugs and and criminals, but do not besmirch proud Italians by associating ‘Mafia” with Israeli criminals and thugs.
Sorry, PG, how could I? The Italian mafia does at least have an honor code, which is definitely more than can be said about the israeli crime syndicates. Also, to the best of my knowledge, the mafia does not kill casually and tries to avoid “collateral damage” when possible. Actually, now that I think of it, that was a libel against all good mafias I was spreading. Thanks for the correction.
Off the bat I know that Bahrain recently appointed a Jewish woman as its envoy to the United States. Jews can go to Kuwait, Jordan and the UAE.
By the way, you obviously haven’t the slightest clue as to what apartheid was or means.
Your talking points are really old. Better send in for an updated version.
“Can Jews go to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Oman, Bahrain, UAE, etc
So please stop talking about aparthied.”
————–
David
You totally missed the point. Bargouthi was born in Jerusalem and yet is not allowed into his city. Your comparison of his situation with Jews going to Saudi Arabia or Kuwait is crude.
One person, one vote.
It is the logical and inevitable outcome.
Exactly! That is why Mexico and the US should be united into one state. That will solve most of the illegal immigration problems and bring “justice” after so many years of US imperialism.
“Exactly! That is why Mexico and the US should be united into one state.”
I agree! Best thing that could happen for America’s food, culture, music, energy and manners, not to even mention the tremendous reservoir of artistic and craft talent in Mexico.
I agree too; further, let’s have open borders around the world, and no matter where one roams, they are issued one vote. Variety is the spice of life! Just look at what the American people have done with
one vote each. Supported a de facto two-party system not found in their own founding documents. With their congress really looking out for each and every one of them.
I see Threee is back with his unipolar solution to illegal immigration in the US. The great wizard! The global problem solver! The reader of history and brainy Israeli scholar!
MRW, don’t be ungrateful! “eee” was the best they had, so they sent him.
After all, they needed to send somebody who agreed with Richard Witty on everything. They’re like soulmates, those two. Richard will never, ever disavow him! To Richard, “eee” is just like the son he always had.
Oh you mean that son, born, bred, and protected by US goys, who strapped on a USA military helmet?
Or the son who put on a beanie and jumped over to an illegal (including by US official policy) Israeli settlement?
A Cloud Over Jerusalem, Uri Avnery
Schumer: I’m on a Mission From God (to Be Israel’s Guardian in Senate)
Gee, Colin, does anyone in the US governmental elite actually care about
danger to the all-volunteer US military people? My, you’d think we don’t know where our 1% boots on the ground come from.
link to ynetnews.com
A man of peace?
Ignoring Abbas’ horrific track record of the last 50 year rewards terror
Yoram Ettinger
04.27.10
Since 2007, US foreign aid to the Palestinian Authority and to PA-controlled NGOs reached nearly $2BN, in addition to $3.7BN contributed by the US to UNRWA since 1950. Has American foreign aid to Abbas advanced moderation, the pursuit of peace and US national security interests?
On April 20, 2010 Abbas named a Ramallah street in honor of Abu Jihad, the architect of PLO terrorism during 1965-1988. For example, Abu Jihad masterminded the March 11, 1978 Israeli Coastal Road Massacre – the hijacking two civilian buses, and murder of 38 civilians, including 13 children. He also orchestrated the March 1975 Tel Aviv Hotel Savoy Massacre, murdering seven civilians.
On March 11, 2010 Abbas -controlled TV and dailies (Al-Ayam and Al-Khayat Al-Jedida) praised Dalal Mughrabi – who commanded the Coastal Road Massacre – as a martyr. On January 16, 2010, Abbas announced that a major square in El-Bireh shall be named in honor of Mughrabi. The PA also named a Hebron girls’ school, a computers center, a summer camp and a sport tournament in honor of Mughrabi.
Abbas and Salam Fayyad authorize the transfer of monthly allowances to families of Palestinian “martyrs”/terrorists. They pay condolences visits to families of suicide bombers, acclaiming them as national heroes.
In 1994 Abbas instituted – as Arafat’s Deputy – an unprecedented system of hate-education through the PA-controlled school, media and mosque systems. Since January 2005 – when he replaced Arafat – Abbas has perpetuated the anti-Jewish, anti-Israel and anti-US hate education. Mein Kampf and the anti-Semitic “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” are best sellers. Hitler and suicide-bombers are folk heroes.
Hate-education, and not a dialogue with Western policy-makers and public-opinion molders, reflects Abbas’ ideology/strategy. Hate-education cements Palestinian national identity. It feeds the root cause of the Arab-Israeli conflict: the de-legitimization of the existence – and not the size – of the Jewish state. Hate-education has been the main manufacturing line of terrorists in general and suicide bombers in particular
Promoting Shoah denial
Abbas’ education system de-humanizes the Jewish state, heralds a religious war against the Jewish State, idolizes martyrs/suicide bombers who “live next to Allah” and “whose blood is pure,” denies the Mideast roots of the Jewish state, fuels anti-Semitism, glorifies “the claim of return” (code name for Israel’s destruction) and promotes Holocaust denial.
On August 13, 2009 Abbas ratified the resolutions of Fatah’s 6th General Conference. For instance, “Armed struggle is a strategy, not a tactic… for the elimination of the Zionist presence. The struggle shall not end until the Zionist entity is eliminated and Palestine is liberated (article 19)…Popular armed revolution is the only way to liberate Palestine…Opposing the recognition of Israel as a Jewish State…”
Abbas was Arafat’s top confidant and first deputy for 50 years, partaking in the betrayal of Arab host countries: Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Kuwait. He enrolled in KGB courses and submitted a doctorate thesis on Holocaust denial at the Moscow University.
Abbas coordinated PLO ties with ruthless Communist regimes, supervised the logistics of the 1972 Munich Massacre (11 Israeli athletes murdered), co-supervised the March 1973 murder of two US ambassadors in Sudan, was a key member of the Palestinian cell of the Muslim Brotherhood in Cairo and earned the nickname – “Mr. 20%” – due to his corruption.
Ignoring Abbas’ horrific track record of the last 50 years, and applying moral equivalence and even-handedness, constitutes a victory to wishful-thinking, rewarding terrorism, adding fuel to the fire of terrorism and Middle East turbulence, at the expense of peace and vital US interests.
DavidSiden, just give the link. We dont need 18″ of text to scroll past. It’s tiring.
Hasbara alert! Hasbara alert!
Gee, DavidSiden, what’s “NGOs reached nearly $2BN, in addition to $3.7BN ” compared to 6 trillion direct and indirect aid to Israel to date?
What has the US taxpayer got for that stringless gift? 9/11? An 8 year war with Iraq? An impending set-up for a third war on a muslim country
(Iran) because they may one day get a nuke bomb, while Israel has had the only big bomb for ages in the Middle East?
“Since 2007, US foreign aid to the Palestinian Authority and to PA-controlled NGOs reached nearly $2BN, in addition to $3.7BN contributed by the US to UNRWA since 1950.”
So the PA received in 20 years what Israel received every year.
Thanks for making the case against Israel David.
What is this crap, davidsiden? What does it have to do with Barghouti and the topic raised by Phil?
Damn, you’re crude!
If all that is true, Abbas sounds like a good guy. I thought he was just an Israeli shill.
Ael, your logic would leave 22 Arab countries and no Jewish state.
Why should the Arabs have 22 countries and there not be one Jewish state?
It’s like a festival of traditional hasbara non sequiturs around here.
Troll Central simply has to send out better competition. This is like a little leaguer facing the 1971 Baltimore Oriole pitching staff.
‘It’s like a festival of traditional hasbara non sequiturs around here. ‘
I laughed till I cried at that one.
But really, you know you’re only saying that cos you’ve been drinking the Anti-Semitic haterade!
DavidSiden, your logic would leave 44 European countries and no Basque state. Why should the Europeans have 44 countries and there not be one Basque state?
Why should there be a Jewish state? Are you saying G-d (take that, underscoring heretics) didn’t know what He was doing when he sent us on the Diaspora?
Tell me Dave, I was only brought up Reform, so maybe I don’t know, is there something I should be doing as a Jew which makes it impossible for me to live with others, assuming they will accept me (to a reasonable extent, I’m not everybody’s cup of borscht, I know that)?
If there is, as I suspect, a vast disproportion of mental illness and character defects among Jews as a result of the persecution (and we’re not just talkin’ name calling, as you well know) and trauma of the past, is Israel really the way to deal with it?
Me, I’m strictly a birth-rate guy. You wanna prevail in this crazy, mixed up world, a nice high birth-rate is the way to go. Oh, and preventing walk-aways. I am ready to do almost anything to help in those areas. But finding, out of the whole fleshugginer world the only group of people in a more politically disadvantaged situation and stealing their land with the (temporary) help of the reigning colonial power (Britain), is that really the way to go? Besides, Dave, do you know something about Judaism which makes it a good basis for a state? A religion, sure, but a State? Something besides projection, imagining that if we take on the characteristics (as we perceive them, of course) of those who have been pusing us around formerly, we will prevail? That’s about what it comes down to, all that Jewish State crap. We have paid the anti-Semities the ultimate compliment.
Well, you can do what you want Dave, but…
My frickin e-mail has been going nuts, so let me state now, and for the present: I am happily married, and cannot do anything personally about the low birth-rate. Thanks, ladies, but you are on your own in that department.
There isn’t a lot the ladies can do about it on thier own.
THEIR own, dammit.
We need an edit function.
Yeah, well, Mooser, Truman said in a few sentences in his diary what you said here. Yet years later, we have the eee bot echoing Goering’s defense at Nurenberg. Go figure.
“Yeah, well, Mooser, Truman said in a few sentences in his diary what you said here.”
You want taciturnity, you came to the wrong ungulate. I’m an authentic prolixetarian.
Yeah, well Mooser, anybody can go the Truman Library online and see what I am talking about. They don’t need you to cloud up the issue.
DavidSiden,
You need to read your manual. All of us here have:
link to j.mp
Why should the one Jewish state keep sucking off America? At least America gets oil from the Arab countries.
And considering what’s going on in the Gulf, outside Louisiana, we is gonna need that Arab oil more than ever.
I really don’t think that US support of Israel right or wrong is OK;
such moral/ethical reality flies in the face of access to any oil. The Question is then, why is the USA suporting Israel uber alles when it does not really help either the USA or Israel in the long run?
“Ael, your logic would leave 22 Arab countries and no Jewish state.
Why should the Arabs have 22 countries and there not be one Jewish state? ”
The same reason I am not allowed to take $8 milllion from Warrned Buffet simply becasue he has 80 billion dollars in teh bank. It’s called property rights and it’s the coundatinos fo most modern societies.
“Why should the Arabs have 22 countries”
——————–
False logic! An Arab has only ONE country (where he’s from) . A Syrian has only one country, Syria. A Jew can, and often has, two. An American Jew has a country, America AND the possibility to become Israeli which many do.. No Arab can enjoy such a privilege.
Why Christians have more countries than Arab does?
DavidSiden is our new troll in service.
aparisian
Summer rain doesn’t last. Il a été rejoindre les autres abrutis, genre Unix et Zamass, dans la poubelle des bannis
Donald, read and enjoy.
link to jpost.com
Ending the peace illusion
By ISI LEIBLER
1/27/10
The link didn’t work.
Don’t tell him. :)
I just read it. Sort of entertaining. The interesting question is how many Israelis think like that.
Jerusalem Post? Aipac’s favorite media outlet?
” If we could convince ourselves that our neighbors would commit to peaceful coexistence, we would make major sacrifices. But alas, the prospects for a comprehensive settlement in the near future are virtually zero.”
22 Arab States hvae signed a peace offer, which recognizes Israel and offers to normalize relations with Israel.
Israel has rejectes the offer. So in a way, liebeler is right. Peace is impossible while Israel doesn’t want it.
BTW. Here’s a sample fo Liebler’s other literary contributions.
Marginalize the renegade Jews
link to jewishnews.net.au
Evangelicals: An appreciation
link to jewishnews.net.au
Sack Israeli Consul General Nadav Tamir
link to jewishnews.net.au
The case against US President Obama
link to jewishnews.net.au
Here’s the right link.
A good read for Colin.
link to jpost.com
Colin Murray, in your world their would be 22 corrupt Arab countries with no rights for minorities and no Jewish state.
Do you realize how insane you sound?
Deflect and distract. But-but minorities are being discriminated against in Israel, and THAT is the subject of this discussion.
“Why are you trying me when there’s so many other criminal suspects out there?”
Do you realise how insane you sound trying to convince us the Arabs perpetrated the Holacaust?
Quick, get the Mufti, David!
By what leap of faith do you make that assessment? In ‘my world’ there would be no corruption anywhere, everyone would respect each other, there would be no crime or war, etc, etc. :)
In ‘my real world’ it is irrelevant how corrupt Arab governments are or whether a Jewish state exists or not. My moral obligation, and that of my family, people, and nation, ends at supporting efforts to prevent genocide. We don’t owe you a Jewish state. You had your shot and you frakked it up.
Zionist radicals have ensured the eventual dissolution of Israel as a Jewish state. We had nothing to do with it, except if you want to count not raising our voices against the Israel Lobby in time to prevent its terminal indulgence of Israeli appetite for plunder. I don’t; American Zionists deserve all the blame.
“The Future of Palestine: Righteous Jews vs. the New Afrikaners” with Professor John J. Mearsheimer
It was thanks to Mr. Barghouti’s video analysis of Israel’s apartheid system that I joined the struggle for justice after the end to the Gaza Invasion. He enlightened me to the depth and breadth of Israel’s system of oppression. I was always sympathetic to the Palestinian cause but never as deeply committed as I am today.
I trust Mr. Barghouti more than I trust Salam Fayyad. Let’s not forget how Fayyad came to be P.M. – by undemocratically subverting and ignoring the will of the Palestinian people in the last election and collaborating with Israel and the U.S. in deposing the candidates who won the election.
People who first dared to label this oppression “Apartheid” when no one else did understand what really needs to be done to solve this problem. They live in a world of reality, not delusion and pipe dreams!
BDS – globally! This is the only way to loosen Israel’s grip on Palestinian land and force it to accept a viable, free, sovereign Palestinian state.
But eee says universal human rights is a pipe dream; the only reality is
I will chose to save my own kids over yours. I guess my question to eee is: How does your philosophy fit in with the concept of “Righteous Gentiles,” actually honored in your hometown Israel?
Wow! Not only do do you choose NOT to ignore me, you respond without understanding to posts I made more than a week ago.
You are a slanderer and a liar.
you respond without understanding to posts I made more than a week ago.
So you admit that you change your stands as you see fit? It’s one week in the past so what I said doesn’t matter, is that what you are saying?
I suppose that makes sense for you, since you go from claiming to “love” the US (“Show me the money!”) to irrational US hatred (bringing up “American imperialism” in unrelated threads).
I suspect a lot of Israeli hatred for America (what there is of it, obviously not all Israelis hate America) stems from their sure knowledge of just how truly dependent they are upon us. It has to grate being a welfare case when one would really rather be independent.
What do you suppose they’re going to do when the milk runs dry? Which it almost certainly will in the near future.
“You are a slanderer and a liar.”
And you, my friend, are the world’s premier schlemiel! And a kvetcher of the first water.
Mustafa Barghouti can go on Jon Stewart and he can also go to Tel Aviv University where he is enrolled as a doctoral student. If he can get to Tel Aviv, then he can set foot in Jerusalem.
Which city? The capital of Israel?
Oh, don’t mind the lampshade, sweetie.
‘Cause rachel can see Arizonan pine trees from her house!
Okay, had to get that out of my system too, sorry. :)
rachel, get your Barghoutis straight. Mustafa is a doctor in Ramallah and cannot go to Jerusalem. Omar is (or at least was) a doctoral student at Tel Aviv.
Or my favorite Barghouti, Marwan. Also a doctoral student (or did he just get his PHD?) thanks to the state of Israel and their Open University.
You’d be surprised how many Barghouti mistakes are made on here.
Of course, if Israel actually allowed Palestinians to have schools without bombing them or sending in regular IDF goon squads, Palestinians wouldn’t be left with no choice but to attend universities under the direct control of the Israeli government.
Hell, in Gaza, Palestinians aren’t even allowed to bring in construction supplies, textbooks or even paper most of the time.
But those Pallustinians, they’a sho’ are grateful-like to you mighty fine Jewish masta’s, I’m sho’.
Chaos, he is in jail, serving five life sentences for the murder and injury of Israel civilians and soldiers. Any Palestinian in Israeli prisons can study at either Israeli or Universities abroad through Israel Open University.
I think Marwan should be exchanged for Gilad Shalit, the Israeli government thinks differently.
Well, that’s cute, yonira. So Palestinians with Fullbright scholarships are routinely denied passage out of Gaza, whereas Palestinians who are herded into prison camps “for the safety of the Jewish people” get thrown a bone.
You must feel really good about that.
prison camps now huh? he was tried in a civilian court. you are so clueless about this stuff, but you just keep one saying more and more. its so ridiculous man.
i’ve gotten your tactics down pretty much on here:
1. respond to everyone who is pro-israel, even when you don’t know jack shit about it.
2. get proven wrong, then evade and go for one of your talking points.
3. if you are really made to look like an idiot, bring up Nazi germany.
4. if that fails bring up something totally irrelevant to the topic at hand (ie Liberty, WMDs, or use of punctuation.)
4. rinse and repeat.
Whatever though this will be my last response to you for the night, it’s just not fun trying to argue w/ an moron.
Yonira
You got it all awfully wrong!
Marwan is in an Israeli prison for more than 8 years now and wasn’t jailed to study!… As for his education here it is (Wikipedia):
Barghouti enrolled at Birzeit University (BZU) in 1983, though arrest and exile meant that he did not receive his B.A. (History and Political Science) until 1994. He earned an M.A. in International Relations, also from Birzeit, in 1998. As an undergraduate, he was active in student politics on behalf of Fatah and headed the BZU Student Council. On 21 October 1984, he married a fellow student, Fadwa Ibrahim. Fadwa took Bachelors and Masters degrees in law and was a prominent advocate in her own right on behalf of Palestinian prisoners, before becoming the leading campaigner for her husband’s release from his current jail term. The couple has a daughter, Ruba (b. 1987), and three sons, Qassam (1986), Sharaf (1989) and Arab (1991).
link to en.wikipedia.org
What did I get wrong atheist? Nothing you regurgitated is proving anything I said wrong, hell we probably got our facts from the same wikipedia site. 5 life citizens, PHD in poli sci, facilitated by Israel Open University which allows prisoners to study abroad or in Israel.
Yonira
You said:
“Or my favorite Barghouti, Marwan. Also a doctoral student (or did he just get his PHD?) thanks to the state of Israel and their Open University.”
Apart from the fact that you did not mention that he is jailed for 8 years you attributed the fact that he studied to the state of Israel when he actually studied in Birzeit university, a Palestinian university located in Ramallah, not yet Israeli if you don’t mind…
Israel has done NOTHING to provide him with education, the opposite is true. Read the article again:
“Barghouti enrolled at Birzeit University (BZU) in 1983, though arrest and exile meant that he did not receive his B.A.”
Still not awfully wrong?
Also, his M.A was obtained from Birzeit….You can thank Israel for that in some twisted reasoning though. Israel did not close the university or destroy it.. So yeah, thank you Israel!
Another thing the PhD he got while in jail was from the University of Cairo:
“According to his supporters, Barghouti was accepted by the University of Cairo and the Arab Academy for Research and Studies in the Egyptian capital back in 1999, three years before he was arrested by the IDF. “
TGIA,
We’ve been through this before with yonira, on this thread. His assertion is based on a misreading of a JPost article on the subject of Barghouti’s PhD, which also states that “Hundreds of Palestinian prisoners are currently enrolled as students with the Open University of Israel, which facilitates their studies by allowing them to sit exams in jail.” What the article does not say is that Barghouti’s own studies were “facilitated” by the Open University, but rather that he was “able to complete his thesis with the help of hundreds of books and documents that Israeli authorities allow inmates to bring into prison.” In short, the prison authorities let him have books.
Thanks Shmuel. I wasn’t aware of that discussion, I’ll have a look.
It is a lot of Barghoutis.
Confounding your Barghoutis Rachel? Tsk, tsk…
I see Alaska too!
You are right DS! All these Barghoutis look alike :-)
All those sand n*****s like the same to you, huh?
rachel, if you start getting your Barghouttis and political prisoners mixed up, don’t blame us if we mix a few Cohens and nix us some Goldberg lites and Rosenberg elites (my favorites are MJ and Paul, in case you wonder). Just how many of those are there anyways? some would say they all look alike too, and others tag them “journalists” (some actually are, but i ain’t telling which). See how easy it is to play this “game”? it’s all about putting shoes on the other foot, one or two glass slippers at a time.
BTW, in case you know a budding reporter called Smith or Weatherspoon, who fancies themselves the coming journo star, it really helps to become a Goldberg. Though probably not a Cohen – definitely way too many of those – can span an entire political spectrum just with those.
Rachel limply responds:
You are right DS! All these Barghoutis look alike :-)
Poor poor Rachel is in so over her head. Samel correctly points out your ignorance and this is all you can say. Perhaps it would be wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than open mouth and remove all doubt (an old Chinese proverb if I recall correctly)
Hey Syvanen
What’s to you asshole whether I make a fool of myself or not?
You are right Rachel, it really is not my business, but I must admit to being entertained by your tomfoolerly. If that is your goal, then keep up the entertainment.
I am glad to be doing my part to entertain you! But I will probably fail in my mission , you being a humour challenged sour puss. I will continue to say what the fuck I want and make an idiot of myself to my heart content. It should not concern you. Just skip my silly posts. You have the right to pass.
It’s reassuring to know that you place pretty much the same sort of value and credence in your own posts that the rest of us do.
It’s reassuring to know that you place pretty much the same sort of value and credence in your own posts that the rest of us do.
I am glad we agree on something!
“What’s to you asshole”
“I will continue to say what the fuck”
We obviously do not deserve or even get your superior sense of humor Rachel..Maybe you should take it where shit-mouthed “megères” are in it with a chance.. Public toilets maybe, you know, genre vespasienne?
You know, some days, I’m ashamed to share the same skin color as people like yonira and rachel.
“same skin color as people like yonira and rachel.”
And that creature accuses me of toomfoolery- whatever that means- when Chaos makes cretinous remarks like that?
What, dying your hair wasn’t enough, so you dye your skin too? I’d make an inquiry about the color coordination between the carpet and the drapes but I dare say nobody’s lounged in that living room for a long time now, so I dare say it’s irrelevant.
I will humour you Chaos like I humour little kids because obviously you are a little bored, need some attention, and are dying to know.
So I will satisfy your prurient interest.
I do die it! You know, IT! Wink! Nudge!
My living room is an hommage to Ethan Allen. Perfectly cordinated and saw recently lots of “lounging” on the floor, coffee table, shag carpect, etc. Wink! Nudge!
And I heard you were curious to know how zionists do it. Right? Me & Eee as you suggested? We do it through a giant star of David while holding Uzis and shooting little Palestinian children.
Now you know everything about me!!!
I hate to leave you but I am off to read Sullivan’s posts so I can pretend to know what I am talking about.
Talk to you on the other thread!
Ciao, Cabron!
You’re a real douchebag, rachel.
“Ciao, Cabron!”
“Rachel limply responds”
Isn’t this an anti-gay terminology?
Nope. And I speak with some authority on that. Nice try, though.