Above, Jerusalem 2010, photo by Ahmad Gharabli/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images, from the Wall Street Journal.
Below, Little Rock Central High School, 1957
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thanks phil…
Kudos for that comparison, Annie!
The side of liberal dissent.
Robert Kennedy, sending in the federal troups after attempting to appeal to reason, and getting to later.
I’d like to get to later. Who wouldn’t
I guess she did too:
link to lrchmemory.org
You realize the implication in this example, right? Who would federal troops need to protect, and who they would be fending off. Right?
those 2 pics together sums it up well…. too bad some folks are so slow to see how ugly their own behavior is and intentionally or otherwise makes others life one of suffering as is the case with this lady displaced from her home…we know who richard witty identifies with in the picture…
Who do you speculate, James?
based on your words and actions here witty i would say you are still a zionist thru and thru….
I am a Zionist. I value the right of Jews in Israel to self-govern.
I am a liberal. I also value the right of Palestinians in Palestine to self-govern.
At best, you’re a hypocritical part-time liberal – your commitment to international law/human rights extends only to the point of them actually being implemented. Such laws and rights are universal and until your prepared to adopt that position you’re faux.
“I value the right of Jews in Israel to self-govern”
So do I, actually. But that does not mean I think that the right to self-govern includes the right to maintain an apartheid state, or the right to drive out the people who lived in Palestine. Majority votes do not annul moral duties.
If all of Palestine becomes a single, democratic state, then the Jews will still have the right to self-govern, in the same way that (e.g.) Catholics in Australia have the right to self-govern. That is each Jew and Gentile will have equal right to take part in the government of the country.
“I am a Zionist.”
Not that we haven’t noticed that you follow the cult!
>> I value the right of Jews in Israel to self-govern.
What happens to the non-Jews in Israel? Do they get any self-government? So much for that “only democracy in the Middle East”.
“I am a hypocrite. I value Jewish privilege over the core liberal principle of equality.”
I don’t know what this makes me. I value the right of the Protestants in the USA to self-govern.
witty, not to pick on you but it would seem that all the platitudes in the world will not change the moral depravity expressed by some… in this example a person was evicted from her home… you can side with the zionists and call yourself a liberal all you want… your support for the men in this picture tells the truth to what your ideological position and liberal values amount to, which is to say, less then a hill of beans my friend…
Where do you derive “support for the men in this picture”?
Please stop lying about what I express.
richard – good point… you are never open but rather opaque on moments like this where you could say something in opposition to the zionist bullshit you support, these men holding to the same set of values no doubt… you move around here like a jellyfish about to be swallowed by a predator…. keep it up as it suits you swimming in waters where you’re out of your ‘league’…
Serious “Wow”, Phil. Breathtaking.
There is a big difference in the 2 photos. In the Little Rock shot the whites are angry and upset, in the Jerusalem shot the yeshiva boys are enjoying themselves.
I think the difference is the Little Rock folks know they have been defeated and are sort of ‘standing up and being counted’.
That is powerful for only 10 words (not counting the photo credits) and two pictures. Great job, Phil.
Note that there are National Guardsmen in the top photo, and no IDF soldiers in the bottom one. In the end, it will come down to the state imposing its will on colonists and their supporters.
The magnitude of change in Israeli people’s views and perceptions necessary for this to happen, to turn the state around 180 degrees, is daunting. I think there is no way it will happen without decisive unified pressure from American Jewish institutions, i.e. AIPAC or an equally powerful successor organization is going to have to do an about-face first.
I think you are correct, Colin. The link below may seem like a small thing, but I think it is very important to be aware of those Israelis (and Palestinians) who are collaborating, with relentless determination (and little if any outside support) to “embrace each other”. The last of the three videos is both inspiring…and heartbreaking.
link to interfaithencounter.wordpress.com
When the National Guard was there, it was to protect the students from the white racists.
When the IDF is there, it is to protect the Jewish racists from their Palestinian victims, lest they think of striking back.
The IDF has many soldiers and Officers who are settlers.
One could say it takes a settler mentality to serve in the IDF
VR, the settlements are illegal, aren’t they? It’s got nothing to do with a mentality. If the IDF soldiers and Officers live in the settlements, they are involved in a criminal enterprise. And Israel makes them IDF soldiers, and IDF Officers?
I’m not even curious about their “mentality”. There’s no question about it, they are involved in profiting from a criminal enterprise. And they are fit to be Officers and IDF soldiers?
One could get similar photos from ethnic or racial conflict anywhere. I’d say that there are more differences between the U.S. civil rights struggle and the plight of Palestinians in Israel than there are similarities. I don’t recall segregationists waging military campaigns against blacks or using napalm against them, either.
That has less to do with lack of will and more to do with lack of resources. I don’t really have any doubts that napalm would have been used in lieu of gasoline and automatic weapons in lieu of shotguns and lynching ropes, had they been made available.
I suppose you could be right in the case of some individual extremists, but I don’t believe that any states were organized to make war against blacks with state militias, or to ethnically cleanse blacks. Israel exists to make war against Palestinians in order ethnically cleanse the area of Palestinians. Keeping a people in an inferior position isn’t the same as wanting to destroy them.
Yeah, actually, I think you’re right on that point. At least there were other white people who were willing to stand between and the racist murderers and their targets in significant numbers.
In Israel, vis-a-vis Jews? Yes, but by all accounts not nearly as many. And in the civil rights movement here it was by no means a majority of white people willing to put themselves on the line, but it was enough to put a stop to it, at least. (And I’m sorry to sound so critical, but that’s the lay of the land, isn’t it?)
“I think there is no way it will happen without decisive unified pressure from American Jewish institutions”
So “American Jewish institutions” are no responsible for limiting the power of nuclear-armed states? Nah, I don’t think they are up to it.
That is the fantasy which Phil seems to indulge in, that somehow Jews can clean up their own mess. If Jews could have done anything about the Zionists, Israel would not have happened.
And there is no win-win for the Jews here. In fact, it’s a lose-lose.
The recognition that (American) Jews alone don’t have the numbers to clean up the mess means that they have no choice but to reach out to non-Jews. This is not only a break from the past but, more important, an empowering position from which to go forward.
Les, I agree, completely. And I think the idea the Israel is a Jewish problem to be solved by Jews is at best a very niaive illusion, and at worst, an underhanded way of avoiding the seriousness and extent of the problem.
What can we, as Jews, do to put pressure on Israel? Tell them there is nothing about nuclear weapons in the Torah?
a picture truly is worth a thousand words
… I find the biggest difference being that the unseen majority of Americans (mostly white) not in the civil rights image were very much in their hearts supporting equal rights and against the intolerance and hate of those in the image … and the civil rights movement gave voice to the larger mood and feeling and helped make it manifest – the top image, however, of these zionist hooligans does not have an unseen majority in opposition to their hate but rather supporting it
Another difference is one picture involves the forced desegregation of a public high school to allow in students from a minority population, rather than keeping them to schools for the minority only; the other involves the forced dispossession of a minority from their own homes.
I also find it interesting to reflect on that, Citizen. In a broad sense the analogy here is apt. But in a more detailed comparison — well, desegregation of schools isn’t even a thought in Israel. If the Palestinian woman in the picture here is demonstrating, it is likely for the right to remain in her own home. The irony is that the comparison would likely be seen as hyperbolic by many Americans steeped in the history of our civil rights movement, when in fact the injustices are if anything more fundamental in contemporary Palestine.
It’s truly amazing in the large sense that the government of the USA supports the dispossession of a people, and has for many decades now, and that any criticism of Israel is THE third rail in US politics, especially for congressional candidates. And it doesn’t change if, once in congress, they want to keep their jobs. What is better proof the tail wags the dog?
Not really. I recommend William Blum’s “Killing Hope” or Stephen Kinzer’s “Overthrow” for your personal edification.
Philip, thank you for the brilliant post.
Don, thank you as well….the videos were moving…hopeful… then left me in tears wondering what the hell I can do. I’m trying but know it’s not nearly enough.
While speaking to a group in a small town, large by Iowa standards, the peace group (Christians) who came to hear me brought with them “problems” with their Jewish community…”they” wouldn’t cooperate or talk. Who would want to talk and cooperate with someone who’s face is as angry as those in Little Rock or as taunting and mocking as the Israeli boys? I wrote about what I’d suggested to the Iowa group in a post last week.
The Palestinians and Israelis engaged in peaceful conversation deserve support….that same process should and could be effective here in the US.
Israel/Palestine is huge! Too often time is spent intellectualizing “the problem” when simple, down to the earth and doable alternatives can actually help move closer to a goal. Not solve it…but make some movement. Conversations similar to Interfaith Encounter helped move the Civil Rights Movement.
Thanks very much Phil for posting this vivid juxtaposition.
What is striking about the young settlers in Sheikh Jarrah is their glee, their sense of impunity, their apparent feeling (like the famous psychology experiments from the 60′s in which shocks delivered to subjects were rapidly ramped up when the inflictor was shielded by anonymity) that they will never be held to personal account for the pain they are causing.
“I find the biggest difference being that the unseen majority of Americans (mostly white) not in the civil rights image were very much in their hearts supporting equal rights and against the intolerance and hate”
Randii…wish I could agree. I wonder now if the majority agree. I fear it would be a slim majority. I am always shocked when someone I thought I respected thinks they’re “safe,” lets their hair down and starts in on civil rights and equal rights…which their group should have but others groups shouldn’t. They don’t exhibit hatred….just laugh, smirk (like the Israeli boys) and enjoy their cleverness at being so superior…. “these clever people” include elected officials, community leaders, teachers, plumbers, you name it. It’s disgusting but true in way too many cases….they many not be the majority but there are millions of them.
Susan, I have been the fly on the wall in too many situations like that. You are right, as my experience goes.
An alarming experience I have all too often is non-Jews who simply will not believe, no matter how many times and how strongly I tell them, that there is such a thing as a Jew who is not entranced with or admiring of Zionism. It simply doesn’t register.
Thank God so many Americans think they have something to gain by sucking up to Jews, which is what’s at the base of that. I keep plenty of change in my pockets so as not to disillusion them.
Bill I believe it was the Milgram experiment. It was primarily indicitive of how individuals would react to directions from an authority figure. These pics are important in the sense that no amount of rhetorical moral suasion can take the place of the viseral nature of the visual.
Viceral, God I hate this phone.
Visceral, sweet god!
My question is: Was the young woman in the BW photo thrown out of her home and had to live in the street? Is what taking place here kind of rubbing it in? Not to minimise what those young African American have endured but the comparison stops when one considers the immense sense of loss, helplessness and desperation.
Another point. The ugly crowd in the top photo, having won, are celebrating a victory over their helpless victim. What I see in the second photo is the a victory for the young woman and those who are taunting her are sour, ugly losers. A huge difference, but we got the idea thanks Phil.
I have seldom seen such disgusting glee as shown by the yeshiva boys as they taunt this single defenceless woman, in the certain knowledge that they will be uninterrupted by local Army or police, and will be wholly immune from any punishment for their vile behaviour.
By contrast, the Little Rock crowd are hateful but sullen; they know they are losing. And their victim is guarded by soldiers and not homeless.
A small detail struck me about the photo; all the men are wearing long-sleeved shirts; an almost sure sign they are very recent immigrants from the US or Eastern Europe, and keen to establish their credentials as vile racists.
If I was a radical Palestinian activist, I would mark each of these young men, singling him out for retribution in kind, one by one. (No, I don’t say eliminate him before he joins the IDF, but that did occur to me).
Except that yeshiva boys don’t have to serve in the IDF, do they?
Israeli yeshiva boys of that age are mostly haredim, who definitely don’t look like these creeps. These are Americans sent by doting parents to the promised land to get soaked in Judaism.
“These are Americans sent by doting parents to the promised land to get soaked in Judaism”
potsherd,
May be you just don’t know everything? And even less about Haredim?
These boys are orthodox by the look of their dress. Haredim are ultras. You have no way of knowing whether someone is English, American, Canadian or Israeli Haredi. They are many variations.
We already know that you think they are creeps. Don’t pile on by blaming Americans Jews too. What are you, a Phil wannabe?
How many comments do you need about a picture?
None, truth be told. Take these for example.
Speak for themselves, don’t they?
They speak to me of manipulation by that fink dude. You know the weird one. The one who made more money from debasing the holocaust that any holocaust survivor.
That is what blows my mind about finkster, he has the nerve to write about book entitled the holocaust industry. He is one it’s biggest benefactors.
No, I am afraid not rachel and yonira, the biggest beneficiaries of debasing the the Holocaust are collectively a good portion of the Israelis. Building a country by belittling the suffering of others through the Holocaust, smothering the moral authority of their of their voices. Wearing the Holocaust as a cloak for atrocities, it is one of the lowest forms of deception. Trying to “justify” attitudes like the one above by the brain dead trust, and the incremental genocidal march. Sorry, no one outdoes this disgusting activity.
Oh, and lets not forget those who support what is being done, looked in the mirror lately?
The really sick part is, yonira’s only been Jewish for like, five years.
Compensating for something, I guess. Well. Something else.
Chaos
They could be taken anywhere on the moon, last time Apollo landed.
” he has the nerve to write about book entitled the holocaust industry. He is one it’s biggest benefactors.”
If he were interested in power and money he would have been much better off participating in the Holocaust industry rather than criticising it, no?
AW gee, yonira, I bet you say that about all professional critics.
I said nothing about power, I was merely referring to $$$ and and the Finkster has plenty.
He has joined in the holocaust industry. to say he hasn’t is a lie.
Rachel and Yonira are making the absurd claim that Norm is making real money from his books and lecture fees. You guys have no idea how little that pays.
This might interest anyone who believes Finster is not making any $$$$
link to jewlicious.com
Let’s cut the crap and e-mail Norm about his net worth.
Seriously though, a blog post that cites a couple of figures without any sources. Do you realize you insult our intelligence by linking a blogger who writes, “the joke appears to be on the Jewish community and organizations he accuses of benefiting from the Holocaust”? Everyone who’s taken five minutes to read Norman’s work knows he came out against institutionalized embezzling of reparations, not reparations, period. And you actually want to debate people and like, give opposing views and whatnot.
Every single figure given in your link is speculation! No facts.
I think, like Palestinians Israelis they can volunteer for the IDF. Well it’s kind of like reverse volunteering, they can pretend to study in Yeshiva until they are past the age where they are required to do reserve duty, basically dodging the draft/military duty using religion as their ‘out.’
Gee, funny how you jumped on the notion of pretending to be Jewish so quickly and using that dishonesty for personal gain.
quit hijacking threads for your personal vendetta against me Chaos, it’s getting quite old. for once can you respond to what i write instead of irrelevant blathering?
you should get a summer job dude.
Chaos ~ I hear the Israeli MFA are hiring!
“quit hijacking threads for your personal vendetta against me”
First of all, I hardly think his vendetta is personal, but we’ll let that go. My real question is: When did you buy the blog from Phil Weiss, Yonira?
And of course, you could entirely avoid this “vendetta” by not coming here! Oh, don’t thank me, Yonira, I know it’s a brilliant idea, but I’ve been Jewish all my life, and some of the brains maybe rubbed off on me. Besides, I eat lots of cherry tomatoes!
“for once can you respond to what i write instead of irrelevant blathering?”
I’m sure he will, as soon as you give him something beside “irrelevant blathering” to respond to.
Five years a Jew, Yonira? And I’ve been hassling you about your wedding? I’m sorry, but I didn’t know. So let’s start fresh!
So Yonira, it’s been five years, in another eight, can we all go to your Bar Mitzvah? After that, we’ll think about a wedding, as long as you respect the purity of Jewish blood, and the matriarchal descent of Judaism. Nod-nod, nudge-nudge, wink-wink!
“Gee, funny how you jumped on the notion of pretending to be Jewish so quickly and using that dishonesty for personal gain.”
Hey, Chaos, a guys gotta go with what he knows best, huh? But five years? Yonira should be vested by now! Don’t get discouraged Yonira, you should see what the checks are like when you are fully vested, and have Jewish parents! I’m rolling in the stuff, and the checks just keep on coming!
as none of you can act like adults, I will just keep up with the status quo, ad hominems and vicious attacks. no problems here!
as a reform Jew Mooser(as you claim to be) you should know that both maternal and paternal lineage is accepted as proof of ones Judaism.
Here is what I was referring to Mooser.
I think, like Palestinians Israelis they can volunteer for the IDF. Well it’s kind of like reverse volunteering, they can pretend to study in Yeshiva until they are past the age where they are required to do reserve duty, basically dodging the draft/military duty using religion as their ‘out.’
Reply
Chaos4700 May 19, 2010 at 11:02 pm
Gee, funny how you jumped on the notion of pretending to be Jewish so quickly and using that dishonesty for personal gain.
if you are so intelligent you could realize that he added nothing to my response to Yeshiva student’s military service.
so here is the start to a big fuck you to all of you!
I already had my bar mitzvah Mooser.
link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org
Also was Ruth’s mother Jewish?
Don’t get discouraged Yonira, you should see what the checks are like when you are fully vested, and have Jewish parents! I’m rolling in the stuff, and the checks just keep on coming!
There are freak anti-semites like Chaos who actually believe that nonsense, it is sickening.