Israeli army targets and arrests children in order to repress Palestinian dissent in the West Bank

Israel/Palestine
on 122 Comments

The following consolidates two posts from Joseph Dana’s blog on Israel’s horrifying practice of targetting children in order to quash protest in the West Bank. As the Middle East Children Alliance points out, “In the first two weeks of February 2011, 32 Palestinian children were arrested by Israeli authorities. This video and report from one village in the West Bank gives the world a glimpse into the real meaning of these numbers.”:

Inside the Military Repression of Nabi Saleh: Arrest of Children from Joseph Dana on Vimeo.

Above is video from Nabi Saleh, shot a couple of days after the night raids (discussed below). It was taken on a Tuesday morning after Israeli authorities had completed another house raid. As the army and police were leaving, one police van stops and two border police officers jump out. 11-year-old Kareem Tamimi comes running into the frame, running towards his mother. The camerawoman begins shouting “Child! Child!” in Hebrew to the border police officers to no avail.

The border police officers capture the child, handling him as if he was a fully grown adult. Within seconds he is in the police van and on the way out of the village toward an undisclosed location. His mother’s cries as she slams her hands against the windows of police van are disregarded by the border police officers.

Kareem’s arrest was part of a strategy to apply as much pressure as possible on his 14-year-old brother Islam, who was arrested the previous day in a night raid, in order that Islam will deliver any script that his investigators wanted. The strategy worked, and Kareem was released later the same evening.

After this arrest happened, the army spokespersons unit alerted the media and twitter followers that another ‘wanted suspect’ was taken in for security questioning. They failed to mention that he was an 11-year-old child.

Inside the Israeli Military Repression of Nabi Saleh: Night Raids from Joseph Dana on Vimeo.

“They come for our woman and our children,” Bassem Tamimi, the leader of the Popular Committee of Nabi Saleh recently told me, “they [the Israeli army] know that woman are half our population and half our strength and so they target them along with the children.” Tamimi, a gentle man with a warm smile spoke to me about the repression of his village as we sat in his home overlooking the settlement of Halamish. “They know where to apply pressure on our resistance. It has become really difficult since the last wave of arrests.”

Israel is devoting maximum effort to the repression of Nabi Saleh’s determination to demonstrate against the Occupation. The specific method of repression has been in development for the past eight years and is not only designed to break the demonstrations but to leave permanent psychological scars on the next generation of Nabi Saleh villagers. In short, children are used to implicate the leaders of the Popular Committee for incitement in demonstrations, providing evidence for their long term incarceration. In the last month, six children have been arrested or detained in Nabi Saleh by the army.

The second two videos embedded in this post were taken in a night raid three weeks ago. The army invaded the village at 03h00, woke everyone up and went from house to house photographing children and recording their ID information. The photographs are complied and used by soldiers in demonstrations to systematically target and arrest the children. Once arrested, children are given a brief interrogation at an undisclosed military base and then returned to the village.

Based on the initial investigation, the General Security Service (Shabak in Hebrew) determines which child is the most susceptible to psychological torture and will most likely implicate the leadership of the popular committee. This unlucky boy is then rearrested, charged with stone throwing (evidence other than confession is usually not provided to back up this charge) and subjected to a much longer interrogation without lawyer or parents present. After two or three children go through this punishment, the army raids the home of the popular committee leaders and they are then imprisoned for between one and three years on charges of incitement. This is what happened to Bil’in’s Abdallah Abu Rahmha, whom the European Union has labeled a human rights defender. He was given a sentence of 16 months for charges of incitement based on the coerced testimony of four children from Bil’in.

Inside the Israeli Military Repression of Nabi Saleh from Joseph Dana on Vimeo.

14 year old Islam Tamimi, one of the children seen being photographed in a night raid, has been in jail for the past three weeks. Days after the video was shot he was arrested and detained for a number of hours at the Halamish military base. Two days after he was detained, the army raided his home at 02h00 and arrested him. He was left in the cold, blindfolded and bound for the rest of the night and then taken imminently to interrogation without lawyer or parents present. The interrogation lasted eight hours. Incidentally, the day that Tamimi was arrested the IDF Spokespersons office tweeted that ‘a wanted suspect was arrested overnight and taken for security questioning.’ Tamimi is awaiting a trial set to begin on the 14th of February. Israel deiced that he was too dangerous to be released on bail and remains in jail until the hearing.

The language in these videos is short and simple. The scene is eerie in its simplicity. Soldiers enter in the middle of the night, wake everyone up and coldly go about their business. Names are written down along with the ID information. The children are asked to stand for a photograph and the soldiers leave. What you are watching in these videos is a small but crucial component of , in the words of Jonathan Cook, Israel’s ongoing project of human despair.

About Joseph Dana

Joseph Dana is a writer and journalist based in the West Bank. His work has appeared in The Nation, Le Monde Diplomatique, London Review of Books, The National (UAE), Monocle, Al Jazeera English, The Forward, and The Mail & Guardian among other international publications. Dana is an associate producer of Just Vision's new documentary Home Front: Portraits from Shiekh Jarrah. Before devoting himself full time to journalism, Dana studied Jewish history at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the Central European University in Budapest.

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122 Responses

  1. mig
    February 17, 2011, 3:57 pm

    “”Based on the initial investigation, the General Security Service (Shabak in Hebrew) determines which child is the most susceptible to psychological torture and will most likely implicate the leadership of the popular committee.””

    ++++ And making in same time that child as future militant. Now, circle is complete. Enjoy and wonder why they hate us so much. I wonder….

  2. NorthOfFortyNine
    February 17, 2011, 4:08 pm

    This is horrific. They act like savages. -N49.

  3. ToivoS
    February 17, 2011, 4:21 pm

    It is very difficult to see what the Israel’s believe they are accomplishing by attacking the children like this. Of course the pressure on the village must be considerable but the price that is being paid has to be very high. Namely, bad publicity but that is not something Israel seems not to care too much about. The biggest cost is the hatred these acts will engender in the hearts of the Palestinians and especially in those children when the become adults. Hatred could very well be a consequence of these actions but perhaps they are the ultimate reason for them.

    That is Israel needs hatred to justify its war against the Arabs. Once hatred takes over and violence results then Israel knows how to deal in violence. It is non-violence that they are having trouble handling. A few hundred dead Israelis each year as a result of terrorism would, in the minds of the IDF, be a small price to pay as long as they could return to their own comfort zone of perpetual war.

  4. Avi
    February 17, 2011, 5:02 pm

    Targeting children for arrests, harassment and beatings was a prominent feature of Apartheid South Africa.

    • yonira
      February 17, 2011, 7:29 pm

      Crushing the skulls of children was prominent feature of Hezbollah’s resistance against the people of Northern Israel.

      • Avi
        February 17, 2011, 7:35 pm

        What are you talking about?

      • annie
        February 17, 2011, 7:51 pm

        source?

      • Taxi
        February 17, 2011, 9:11 pm

        Yeah yonira, why don’t you tell us all about how Hizbollah and Hamas used White Phosphorous on israeli children. Show us some pictures why don’t you?

      • Chaos4700
        February 17, 2011, 9:22 pm

        And the foul, blatant lies come back in force.

      • Chaos4700
        February 17, 2011, 9:45 pm
      • tree
        February 18, 2011, 10:44 am

        Yonira’s probably referring to Samir Kuntar. The hasbarists here usually riff off each other and Kuntar was brought up on another thread to deflect from the story of the Israeli rabbis who published a book justifying the murder of innocent gentile children. (of course, Kuntar wasn’t a member of Hesbollah at the time, but you know how all Arabs look alike.;-) )

        I posted this on the other thread about Kuntar. I think its appropriate to repeat it here:

        There was a Haaretz report a while back about an Israeli psychologist-a former chief intelligence officer with the Israel Prison Service who had spoken with Kuntar at length in prison, and he believed that Kuntar was innocent of the murders.

        link to haaretz.com

        You also met with Samir Kuntar of the Palestine Liberation Front, who murdered members of the Haran family in Nahariya and was released as part of the deal with Hezbollah that brought back the bodies of the two abducted soldiers Eldad Regev and Ehud Goldwasser.

        “We turned Kuntar into God-knows-what – the murderer of Danny Haran and his daughter, Einat. The man who smashed in the girl’s head. That’s nonsense. A story. A fairy tale. He told me he didn’t do it and I believe him. I investigated the event within the framework of the next book I am writing, about hostage-taking incidents. As far as I am concerned, it was no more than a newspaper report. I sat with him; he was very intelligent. He was a squad commander at 17. He told me that his motive for infiltrating Nahariya was to take hostages. He said [his organization] knew that would both humiliate Israel and get them media publicity.

        “He told me: ‘If I had wanted to kill Danny and his daughter, I would have shot them in the house. I took them to the boat because I wanted hostages. I had no interest in hurting them. After I got them into the boat, wild gunfire started and I went back to help my squad on the shore. Danny, the father, kept shouting, “Stop firing, you crazy people.” He and his daughter were found shot in the boat. I was on a small rise, shooting at your forces, and the boat was 20 meters away in the water, with Danny and the girl.’”

        So you say that Kuntar did not murder Haran and his daughter?

        “That is what he says, and in my opinion there is support for the fact that they were killed by fire from the Israeli rescue forces. You can accuse him all you like, but it was obviously the rescue forces that opened fire. There were all kinds of legends about Kuntar. People also said that he would return to being a terrorist [after his release]. Nonsense. He told me then explicitly that he would not go back to terrorism, that he was too old to execute operations – and that’s also clear. For the same reason, I see no problem in releasing terrorists with blood on their hands in return for [kidnapped soldier] Gilad Shalit. I get the feeling the country is waiting for his body.

        If this Israeli man is to be believed, and there’s no rational reason NOT to believe him, nobody smashed the girl’s head in. The Israelis most likely mistakenly killed Haran, and his daughter ,because they thought they were shooting at Palestinian “terrorists”. They killed them by accident, but that would make for a horrible story so they made up the part about the smashed forehead and the rifle butt. Its not like the IDF or the Israeli government hasn’t lied before … or continually for that matter.

  5. NorthOfFortyNine
    February 17, 2011, 5:04 pm

    It is very difficult to see what the Israel’s believe they are accomplishing by attacking the children like this.

    They are taking the Muburak approach to crowd management — “Tell your children to stay at home at stop watching satellite TV” — taken one step further. -N49

  6. justicewillprevail
    February 17, 2011, 5:14 pm

    The barbaric heart of israel is beyond comprehension for most people – in fact israel relies on the natural tendency of most people to disbelieve that such calculated cruelty takes place on a daily basis. Much easier to believe in the mythical hype of terrorism so assiduously cultivated by israel and the neocons to justify their version of the Spanish Inquisition. Israel proves the psychological experiment which demonstrated how easy it is to persuade others to apply torture when collectively encouraged to do so and convince them it is ok. How anyone can excuse them after reading the torrent of articles like this is hard to credit. These people should be arrested and charged for flagrant abuse of human rights, not to mention criminal violence, murder and kidnapping. Why should we abhor Mugabe, the Burmese junta and not hold Israel in the same regard, when it is often even worse than these despotic regimes? Oh yes, it is apparently a ‘democracy’ – so that’s alright then.

  7. piotr
    February 17, 2011, 5:15 pm

    What is striking is how much manpower, planning and creativity goes into suppression of several villages.

    Or calculating how much more (or less) Gaza can be squeezed without “creating humanitarian crisis”.

    Then when IDF has an opponent that actually has some arms (or even sticks) it is reduced to chaotic and brutal tactics and howls of outrage: how dare they get any weapons! violation of principles! Only IDF has the right to have weapons!

  8. eljay
    February 17, 2011, 6:11 pm

    >> Israeli army targets and arrests children in order to repress Palestinian dissent in the West Bank

    This is what Zio-supremacists call “humanizing ‘the Other'” and “making ‘better wheels'”. Its purpose is to eliminate “maximalist” and “destabilizing” dissent against Israeli aggression, oppression, land theft, colonization, destruction and murder.

    In a certain light, it seems rather immoral and harsh, but if you “Remember the Holocaust!”, you get that warm and fuzzy feeling inside which tells you that those dirty Palestinians deserve everything they get.

  9. lobewyper
    February 17, 2011, 7:11 pm

    Too little attention has been paid to the psychological and in some cases physical abuse of Palestinian children in this conflict. It is of course not merely the long-term effects of such treatment, but also the high level of fear and anxiety that these kids are forced to endure in the short-term. I have seldom (never?) seen this issue addressed in our MSM and even on these boards this subject often takes second place compared with issues such as one state or two states. Mondoweiss has consistently reported on this matter and deserves our gratitude for so doing. Kudos to Mr. Dana and the others who have spoken out on this vitally important subject! The UN should do an investigation of this specific issue a la Goldstone and let Al Jazeera and AJE report on it.

    • eee
      February 17, 2011, 7:43 pm

      The Palestinian child looks afraid to you? He in full daylight from a distance of about 10 meters hurls a stone at a police van without any provocation from the police.

      • yonira
        February 17, 2011, 7:57 pm

        C’mon EEE we all know that is a valid form of non-violent resistance.

      • Taxi
        February 17, 2011, 9:12 pm

        So you prefer the common shoe yonira?

      • Chaos4700
        February 17, 2011, 9:56 pm

        That really can’t be a police van. There is no police function for armed Israelis on the West Bank. Invaders and occupiers can’t be police. That’s a van carrying suspected war criminals.

      • Chaos4700
        February 17, 2011, 9:57 pm

        Anyone you know from college, one wonder, yonira?

      • Woody Tanaka
        February 17, 2011, 11:50 pm

        “That really can’t be a police van. There is no police function for armed Israelis on the West Bank. Invaders and occupiers can’t be police. That’s a van carrying suspected war criminals.”

        Exactly. It’s an insult to real cops to call this Israeli filth “police.”

      • lobewyper
        February 17, 2011, 9:19 pm

        eee,

        Did you think I was referring merely to this particular instance? I was referring to the literally thousands of children killed or maimed and/or psychologically damaged during this long conflict. Children who daily have been forced to wonder if their father will be taken away by what amount to the secret police, or whether the IDF will wake their families in the middle of the night and humiliate their parents in front of them, or whether (in Gaza) the airplanes overhead will bomb them or their neighborhoods…

      • eee
        February 17, 2011, 9:38 pm

        lobewyper,

        Take your blinkers off. For example, go read about the second intifada. There are no saints in this 100 year war. If the Palestinians want a solution, they should sit down and negotiate. If they want no violence targeted at them, they should stop all violence targeting Israelis. It is quite simple.

        I will not apologize for the fact that Israel is a strong and successful country in spite of all the efforts of the Palestinians and the Arab world. In fact, I am proud of it. The Palestinians should learn from their mistakes, not repeat them.

      • Chaos4700
        February 17, 2011, 9:59 pm

        The last time Palestinians negotiated under Oslo, you Israelis have DOUBLED the number of illegal settlers on the West Bank, and then built an illegal wall on Palestinian land that violates their right to freedom of movement and facilitates the destruction and theft of Palestinian property.

        Yes, we all know how high your goose steps are, eee, and how tightly wound that armband is.

      • NorthOfFortyNine
        February 17, 2011, 10:01 pm

        If the Palestinians want a solution, they should sit down and negotiate.

        Bin there, done that. You can’t be serious that this remains a viable option, can you? You are either disingenuous or a fool.

        eee, Your entire philosophy boils down to “might is right”. You are on record as saying, a la Morris, that the Nabka was unfortunate, but a price that had to be paid. Everything you throw up here is padding to this core belief. “We can, so we do.” Note the complete lack of moral underpinning to your stance. Why not discard the fluff and say: “We round the kids up to hold hostage (the clear intent of this, as per the article) because a) we can and b) we find this a useful tactic to supress the unrest.” At least then you’d be being truthful. -N49.

      • eljay
        February 17, 2011, 10:48 pm

        >> If the Palestinians want a solution, they should sit down and negotiate.

        Well, now, you’re just being an ass. You know full well that Israel has recently been outed as having ignored all attempts by Palestinians to negotiate, in good faith, a resolution to the I-P conflict.

        But because you and your Zio-supremacist co-collectivists are not interested in good-faith negotiations – because you expect Palestinians to simply “give us what we want, or we will take it from you” – Israel, in your twisted, hateful mind, is justified in continuing with its aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder.

        You are a sorry example of a human being.

      • Shingo
        February 18, 2011, 7:20 am

        . The Palestinians should learn from their mistakes, not repeat them.

        Right eee. It’s not like they have the luxury of never having to face the consequence of theirs like Israel.

      • talknic
        February 18, 2011, 7:10 am

        eee February 17, 2011 at 7:43 pm

        “He in full daylight from a distance of about 10 meters hurls a stone at a police van without any provocation from the police.

        62 years of being dispossessed isn’t provocation? WOW!!

  10. Woody Tanaka
    February 17, 2011, 7:35 pm

    Every time I read the Israelis doing things like this — to children, no less — is simple establishes the number of inhumane barbarians this racist ideology has generated. It’s infuriating.

    From the politicians who order it, to the pieces of shit in uniforms (to call the militant filth in the so-called IDF “soldiers” is to insult the honor of the profession of soldiering) to the all the voters who vote for these governments; their thinking is a cancer.

    • eee
      February 17, 2011, 7:50 pm

      Thank you for your bigoted rant that has nothing to do with the facts. If an 11 year old in the US throws a stone at a police car, will he be arrested?

      • Woody Tanaka
        February 17, 2011, 8:02 pm

        “Thank you for your bigoted rant…”
        Coming from someone like you, who has the morality of a Nazi, that’s almost a compliment.

        And nothing bigoted about it. Any Israeli adult of sound mind who isn’t out there actively opposing the government that acts for them is guilty and should be treated as such.

        And please stop insulting police officers world-wide and the noble profession of policing by calling this Israeli filth “police.” The trash that enforce the racist rules devised by the Zionists are more like Mafia enforcers and gang-bangers.

      • Avi
        February 17, 2011, 8:03 pm

        I didn’t know the United States was occupied by a foreign power. Who knew.

        Israel’s apologists keep trotting false analogies and failed comparisons. It’s pathetic.

      • eee
        February 17, 2011, 8:49 pm

        Yes, yes, Israelis are gang bangers and mafioso. Keep finding reasons for denying Jews the right of self defense. This is a simple case of a boy without any provocation throwing a stone at a police car. The police catch him and very professionally and humanely arrest him. It is all seen clearly on the film. Now spin it any way you want.

        Of course the US is occupied by a foreign power or are Europeans indigenous there?

      • Chaos4700
        February 17, 2011, 9:21 pm

        Israel is not the entirety of the Jewish people, eee. And sooner or later that will be made painfully aware to you.

      • eee
        February 17, 2011, 9:45 pm

        What is going on with this childish trash talk and threats?
        “Sooner or later” the Palestinians have been losing 62 years because they take advice from people like you.

      • Chaos4700
        February 17, 2011, 9:53 pm

        No, actually, Palestinians have been losing because people like you bomb hospitals, set fire to farmland and beat schoolchildren when they’re walking from home to school past sniper towers.

      • Woody Tanaka
        February 17, 2011, 11:43 pm

        “Yes, yes, Israelis are gang bangers and mafioso.”
        No, Israelis don’t have that much class or character. Israelis are scum who beat up old people to steal their pension checks.

        “Keep finding reasons for denying Jews the right of self defense.”
        This isn’t about Jews defending themselves, it’s about them being slaves to a racist ideology that has led to a society without any semblance of humanity in dealing with the very people whose land they’re stealing.

      • Potsherd2
        February 17, 2011, 8:46 pm

        If an 11 year old Jew in Israel throws a stone at a police car, will he be arrested?

      • eee
        February 17, 2011, 9:41 pm

        Initially his parents would be warned, but if he persists, he would be arrested. If damage occurs, he will certainly be arrested.

      • Chaos4700
        February 17, 2011, 9:49 pm

        So double standard Jews are treated differently than Muslims or Christians. Not that we needed any more evidence of that.

      • tree
        February 17, 2011, 11:17 pm

        So, in other words, there are two sets of laws in Israel, depending on whether you are Jewish or not.

        If damage occurs, he will certainly be arrested.

        That’s a lie. Settler children are rarely arrested even though numerous IDF soldiers have testified that the settler children often throw stones at Palestinians. They’ve also testified that soldiers are not allowed to make physical contact with the settler children, regardless of what the children do. And sometimes the IDF just joins in the “fun”. From the Breaking the Silence testimonies:

        Some of the testimonies from Hebron deal with the difficult position the soldiers find themselves in, between Palestinians and settlers – who they say are even harder to handle. Some of the female soldiers were shocked with the level of violence the settlers’ children used against the Palestinians. “They would throw stones at them, the Jewish kids,” a Nahal female soldier said, “and the parents would say anything… you see this every day in Tel Rumeida.”

        Doesn’t it seem strange to you that one child throws a stone at another child?

        “Because the one child is Jewish and the other is Palestinians, it’s somehow okay… and it was obvious that there would be a mess afterwards. And you also don’t really know which side you are on…I have to make a switch in my head and keep hating the Arabs and justify the Jews.”

        In her frustration, the same female soldier told of how she once spit on a Palestinian in the street: “I don’t think he even did anything. But again, it was cool and it was the only thing I could do to… you know, I couldn’t take brag that I caught a terrorists… But I could spit on them and degrade them and laugh at them.”

        Another female Sachlav soldier told the story of the time an eight-year-old settler girl in Hebron decided to bash a stone into the head of a Palestinian adult crossing her passing by her in the street. “Boom! She jumped on him, and gave it to him right here in the head… then she started screaming ‘Yuck, yuck, his blood is on me'”.

        The soldier said the Palestinian then turned in the girl’s direction – a move that was interpreted as a threat by one of the soldiers in the area, who added a punch of his own: “And I stood there horrified… an innocent little girl in her Shabbat dress… the Arab covered the wound with his hand and ran.” She recalled another incident with the same child: “I remember she had her brother in the stroller, a baby. She was giving him stones and telling him: ‘Throw them at the Arab’.”

        link to jeremiahhaber.com

        And from a description of an attempted tour of Hebron by the Israeli soldier organization, “Breaking the Silence”

        The police couldn’t move them out of the way because they are not allowed to physically contact the children, or the babies whom some of the settlers placed in carriages in front of the bus.

        link to mharms-israelpalestine.blogspot.com

      • Woody Tanaka
        February 17, 2011, 11:38 pm

        LOL. Racist double standard is Israel. Color me surprised…

      • tree
        February 17, 2011, 11:50 pm

        More information on the impunity with which settlers, including settler children, attack Palestinians. From 1994, Israel Shahak translated the Hebrew press of the time in his analysis and report on the religious settlers for the Middle East Policy Council. :

        ….Let me omit other disturbing facts in Gurevitz’s [my note: Amit Gurevitz was an Israeli journalist ] description in order to concentrate on what is crucial in his article: namely on the reasons for which the soldiers cannot call the religious settlers to order. These reasons are not often discussed by Hebrew papers now supporting Rabin. But Gurevitz was told by a unit officer that “the soldiers are forbidden to arrest a Jew, except if he hits a soldier or injures an Arab by shooting in the presence of an Israeli army soldier.” Beating the Arabs, or humiliating them otherwise, or vandalizing their property before the very eyes of the army soldiers is not regarded as “a sufficient reason” for arresting a settler. Let me add that no Jew can be arrested if he does the same. A rule to this effect has remained in force for many years, but has never been announced in public. It is explicitly communicated only to high-ranking officers. Gurevitz quotes

        another officer, T., who complained that he had never received adequate explanations from the permanent commanders of the area what the standard procedure is by which the Jews are never arrested. . . . An Arab is sent to jail the minute he is seen to throw a stone. But the settlers throw stones with impunity, or else they send girls or women to throw stones or to overturn peddlers’ carts in the market, because they know that according to army regulations we are forbidden to have physical contact with Jewish women, so we can do nothing against them. . . . Another of the settlers’ tricks is to pretend to play football, the real purpose of the supposed game being to smash street lamps or windows in Arab houses.

        link to mepc.org

        I’d highly recommend reading the entire analysis. Remember, this was in 1994, during the early Oslo period, over half a decade before the second intifada.

      • Woody Tanaka
        February 17, 2011, 11:53 pm

        Tree,

        Thanks for posting that. Those “people” are truly disgusting to treat the native Palestinians this way. They should all be locked up, the whole lot of them, for a long, long time.

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 12:02 am

        Tree,

        Right, Jewish children can throw stones at police cars and get away with it just because you have a few anecdotal data points. Grow up.

      • tree
        February 18, 2011, 12:17 am

        NO, I don’t just have numerous “anecdotal data points”. I have testimonies for IDF soldiers that show that, as one IDF officer said: “An Arab is sent to jail the minute he is seen to throw a stone. But the settlers throw stones with impunity, or else they send girls or women to throw stones or to overturn peddlers’ carts in the market, because they know that according to army regulations we are forbidden to have physical contact with Jewish women, so we can do nothing against them.

        Read the soldiers’ testimonies on Hebron from Breaking the Silence. These are not random occurrences. They happen every day there. I’m sure you know this, its just an inconvenient fact for your hasbara about how terrible it is when someone throws a stone, because when that someone is an Israeli Jew, suddenly it isn’t so bad after all. You just spent your time proving what a big hypocrite you are.

        You lied, and you know you lied. Be a grown up and admit it.

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 12:59 am

        Tree,

        The liar is of course you. What you call “evidence” is merely anecdotes about the situation in Hebron. Nobody is claiming perfection in upholding the law. But, do you really think that in Israel Jewish kids throw rocks at cars with impunity? Are you that dense?

      • annie
        February 18, 2011, 2:19 am

        But, do you really think that in Israel Jewish kids throw rocks at cars with impunity?

        about a year ago i saw a video of this family who lives down hill from this ultra orthodox family in EJ. the little boys used to throw rocks down on their homes/back yards. they had had to cover it w/this sheathing so the rocks wouldn’t hit them. they talked about it and then filmed the boys doing it. they had long curly sideburns. they threw rocks with impunity. it made loud noises on the sheathing.

      • tree
        February 18, 2011, 10:32 am

        What you call “evidence” is merely anecdotes about the situation in Hebron. Nobody is claiming perfection in upholding the law. But, do you really think that in Israel Jewish kids throw rocks at cars with impunity? Are you that dense?

        That’s all ya got, isn’t it? “Are you dense”? Great rebuttal. I gave you testimony from over nearly 20 years that shows that not only do settler children throw rocks with impunity, but that it is IDF policy to grant this immunity from arrest. My sources are ALL Israeli, all IDF soldiers. If you have a problem with what they are saying, then take it up with them and prove them wrong. If settler children not being arrested for throwing stones is such an anomaly then you should be able to cite numerous examples of arrested settler children. Go ahead, knock yourself out. I await your multiple links on arrested settler children. You’ve got nothing, and you know it.

      • Potsherd2
        February 18, 2011, 11:08 am

        No, Jewish children can throw stones with impunity because Israel is a racist society with three sets of laws: one for haredim, one for secular Jews, and one for Arabs.

      • NorthOfFortyNine
        February 17, 2011, 10:13 pm

        If an 11 year old in the US throws a stone at a police car, will he be arrested?

        a) Throwing a stone at a police car is legitimate resistence to an illegal occupation.

        b) Umm, no, in civilized countries you do not put children in jail for extended periods for throwing stones at police cars, no, you don’t.

        Then again, you believe ethnic cleansing is ‘ok’ so long as the right guys are doing the cleansing. That’s you, eee — an advocate of war crimes. You are a wretched excuse for a human being.

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 12:07 am

        NorthOfFortyNine,

        Not only I am a “wretched excuse for a human being” but so are at least another 5 million Jews in Israel who believe exactly as me that it was good that a stable Jewish state was created at a price of the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem. So thank you for your racist attitudes which prove how important and necessary a Jewish state is. Thank goodness that we don’t have to care anymore that some nobody with a frozen ass decides that we are a “wretched excuse for a human being”.

      • Woody Tanaka
        February 18, 2011, 1:14 am

        “Not only I am a “wretched excuse for a human being” but so are at least another 5 million Jews in Israel who believe exactly as me that it was good that a stable Jewish state was created at a price of the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem.”

        Okay, then we agree.

      • mig
        February 19, 2011, 11:23 am

        triple e :

        “Thank you for your bigoted rant that has nothing to do with the facts. If an 11 year old in the US throws a stone at a police car, will he be arrested?”

        ++++ This btselem article tells what wrong in this case :

        link to btselem.org

  11. eee
    February 17, 2011, 7:41 pm

    The kid is clearly seen at the beginning of the clip throwing a stone at the police van. Of course he should be arrested. His mother is allowed to come with him to the police station in the van. She refuses. What exactly are you guys complaining about? The police are professional throughout. They don’t even handcuff the child. One women even attacks a policeman and is not arrested.

    A stone thrown at a car even by an 11 year old can be lethal and it certainly is dangerous. Are kids aged 11 allowed to throw stones at cars in the US and are not arrested? This is clearly a case of violence instigated by the Palestinians.

    • Woody Tanaka
      February 17, 2011, 7:57 pm

      Sure. And you forget the 100 years of you Jews instigating the violence by the Palestinians.

    • Avi
      February 17, 2011, 7:59 pm

      The kid is clearly seen at the beginning of the clip throwing a stone at the police van. Of course he should be arrested.

      Why weren’t the Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem arrested when they threw rocks and glass bottles at police during demonstrations against a gay pride parade?

      Your smugness is no different than the smugness of Bahrain’s current dictator who sent his own goons to shoot civilians in the middle of the night, and later lied about it all being an attempt to restore order following sectarian unrest. Soon, he won’t be so smug and arrogant, and neither will you when the tide turns and you find yourself surrounded by Ay-rabs demanding democracy and equality. You’ll be forced to tone-down your conceited sense of supremacy. In short, you’ll be put in your place, like other fascists in Israel.

    • Woody Tanaka
      February 17, 2011, 8:08 pm

      “Are kids aged 11 allowed to throw stones at cars in the US and are not arrested?”

      The US is not a good comparison. If it was 1943, and this was occupied France, rather than 2011 in occupied Palestine, I would be cheering a child throwing a stone at a German “police” truck. Same here.

      • eee
        February 17, 2011, 8:55 pm

        You can cheer the boy throwing the rock as much as you want. It does not change the fact that he is a juvenile delinquent who is endangering people’s lives. And of course to you there is no difference between Israel and the Nazis. Why am I not surprised?

      • Taxi
        February 17, 2011, 9:16 pm

        Actually he’s an 11 year old freedom fighter.

        Live with it eee and tremble.

      • eee
        February 17, 2011, 9:26 pm

        Ok, I will tremble. So much trash talk with so little achievement. Go write your representative.

      • Chaos4700
        February 17, 2011, 9:38 pm

        So how many children do you suppose eee “interrogated” during his service in the IDF?

      • eee
        February 17, 2011, 9:48 pm

        About the same number of Jews you murdered as a contract killer for the KKK.

      • Chaos4700
        February 17, 2011, 9:54 pm

        Oh yes, I have tons of friends in the KKK, being a gay man raised Catholic with an African American partner.

        So what were you, in the IDF, eee? Sniper? Armored bulldozer driver? Mortar crew?

      • NorthOfFortyNine
        February 17, 2011, 10:25 pm

        he is a juvenile delinquent who is endangering people’s lives.

        This from a person who said it was ok to drive out the local population so Israel could establish a racially pure jewish state. !!!!!

      • Taxi
        February 17, 2011, 10:29 pm

        No eee I WILL NOT write my mnehmnehmnehwhatever because I’m confident that the utterly bereft of morality israel hasn’t a chance in hell winning anything ever anymore when 9 year old freedom fightgers are on the streets of Palestine eyeballing old, fat and lazy idfer has-beens, wannabes and are-bes.

        Know what I mean eee? Even children as young as 9 are challenging your crimes. A wee bit embarrassing for a so called ‘beacon of blahblah’, no?

        Say, you not seen what Arab ‘kids’ have been doing to their dictators lately?

        Sure you have smartypants. Scary shit huh?

        Not only are you eee trembling, but the whole goddam mideast earth is shaking.

        But of course waking up to reality is not obligatory for zionists (chosen-ness and all that).

        So go ahead macho man, go ahead and be untrembling – better for Palestine when you’re so pathetically out of touch.

      • eee
        February 17, 2011, 11:42 pm

        Taxi,

        Ok, don’t write your representative. Post some trash talk on a blog. Oh, you have already done that.

        The people who should be embarrassed at what the 11 year old is doing is his parents. If they approve of what he is doing, they should do it themselves.

      • Woody Tanaka
        February 17, 2011, 11:46 pm

        “And of course to you there is no difference between Israel and the Nazis.”
        Learn to read. There’s no difference between a boy in occupied France resisting occupation and a boy in occupied Palestine doing the same. The only comparison I made was between the occupied, not the occupier.

      • eee
        February 17, 2011, 11:54 pm

        “This from a person who said it was ok to drive out the local population so Israel could establish a racially pure jewish state. !!!!!”

        What I said that was that the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in 1948 was justified because it was an evil required in order to create a stable Jewish state which is a greater good. See the difference? When you start a war and lose, you pay a price. Lesson for everybody, don’t start a war you cannot win.

      • Chaos4700
        February 18, 2011, 12:48 am

        So just how many Palestinians babies can be burned to death by white phosphorous and still be justified for the “greater good” of your Jews-only country club state?

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 1:13 am

        Very simple. Do not attack us, and we will not attack you. It is quite simple. If you attack us, don’t complain about the results.

        By the way, how many Mexicans will have to die trying to enter the US before you open your border completely? How many Mexicans will die before you stop selling weapons to Mexican drug gangs? How many Mexicans will have to die because Americans purchase drugs? You are such a hypocrite. Fix your own home.

      • Avi
        February 18, 2011, 3:42 am

        Very simple. Do not attack us, and we will not attack you. It is quite simple. If you attack us, don’t complain about the results.

        You make it seem as though Israel is a normal state. It’s not. So what was an Israeli police van doing in the occupied West Bank? I’ll give you a hint, it’s occupied land that doesn’t belong to you. Israel is currently occupying a few million people.

        So you’ve run out of Hasbara and now you’re recycling old talking points. Hey let’s talk about San Remo again, because, you know, you’re out of excuses.

      • Chaos4700
        February 18, 2011, 8:35 am

        Nothing excuses the murder of children, eee. Nothing.

        You have truly become the 21st century’s Nazi.

      • eljay
        February 18, 2011, 9:24 am

        >> What I said that was that the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in 1948 was justified because it was an evil required in order to create a stable Jewish state which is a greater good.

        A “required evil”. Wow. Pure hatefulness. Unapologetically immoral. Absolutely disgusting.

        Your Zio-supremacist co-collectivists must be proud of you.

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 10:05 am

        You are a hypocrite and a bigot. Most Americans believe that the nuclear attacks on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, in which 100,000 people perished, were clearly justified because of the greater good that emerged from these attacks. These attacks were a required evil. Are most Americans “purely hateful and immoral”? Were most Americans (“the greatest generation”) living at that time immoral?

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 10:06 am

        So Chaos, Truman was a Nazi for ordering the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

      • tree
        February 18, 2011, 10:21 am

        Very simple. Do not attack us, and we will not attack you.

        Except of course the pre-Jewish State attacked areas of the Partition assigned Arab State prior to “six Arab armies blah, blah blah. And Israel conspired with France and Britain to attack Egypt in 1956, and Israel “pre-emptively” attacked Egypt in 1967, and attacked Lebanon in 1978 and 1982, etc. etc. Apparently Israel has significant trouble following your simple guidelines.

      • eljay
        February 18, 2011, 10:34 am

        >> You are a hypocrite and a bigot.

        Not only do you lack common sense, you also don’t see to know the meaning of the words hypocrite and bigot. I have never suggested that evil is “required” for anything. I condemn evil acts everywhere and always.

        So, nice try – actually, a pretty lame try – but you don’t get to drag me into the moral swamp you and your Zio-supremacist co-collectivists inhabit.

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 10:42 am

        Finally the truth comes out. Reality is a moral swamp with very difficult decisions that need to be made. You are but a simpleton that is incapable of facing reality and the harsh moral dilemmas it imposes. Why am I not surprised?

      • annie
        February 18, 2011, 10:51 am

        difficult decisions? like kidnapping and torturing kids to get them to implicate heroes like abu rahme?

        there must be a big vacuous gap between your ears.

        Most Americans believe that the nuclear attacks on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, in which 100,000 people perished, were clearly justified

        where do you come up w/this stuff?

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 11:05 am

        You can’t face reality can you? Truman ordered the attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Do US text books and history books describe him as a war criminal? Clearly, most Americans believe that Truman’s decision was justified.

      • talknic
        February 18, 2011, 11:31 am

        eee February 17, 2011 at 11:54 pm

        What I said that was that the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in 1948 was justified because it was an evil required in order to create a stable Jewish state which is a greater good”

        …and the rest of the ward agree with you I’m sure…

        “See the difference? “

        Between rational and your idiotic raving, yes…

        “When you start a war and lose, you pay a price”

        Nice of you to suggest … Plan Daleet was a premptov war. Preemptive wars are started by the preemptor.

        “Lesson for everybody, don’t start a war you cannot win”

        Has Israel won the preemptive war it started in 1948? Got a peace deal with the Palestinians yet? Have they stopped resisting their occupier?

      • annie
        February 18, 2011, 11:36 am

        Plan Daleet was a premptov war

        war? what war? it was just the necessary evil employed for the greater good!

      • eljay
        February 18, 2011, 4:23 pm

        >> Reality is a moral swamp with very difficult decisions that need to be made.

        Once again, you demonstrate that you lack common sense. Reality is complex, and complex issues within reality can be addressed morally or immorally. The swamp refers to the level of moral debasement that results when people like you choose to commit acts that you know to be evil and immoral, and then righteously justify them as “required” or “necessary”.

        I may be a simpleton, but you are clearly a venomous, foolish and hateful Zio-supremacist. Like I said, you don’t get to drag me into your moral swamp.

      • Chaos4700
        February 18, 2011, 5:26 pm

        Truman also was the first head of state to endorse the Zionist bloodbath and legitimize your land grab with statehood by bypassing the UN on the matter. And ever since, Washington DC has been bowing and scraping to the Israeli lobby.

        Overall, Truman was a very bad, intensely myopic and morally compromised President.

      • Chaos4700
        February 18, 2011, 5:27 pm

        But Truman was never a soldier who took aim at children. Which is something he still has over you, eee.

      • demize
        February 20, 2011, 3:41 am

        Your out of ideas do you’re changing the subject, this is about the world recognized illegality and immorality of arresting and torturing CHILDREN you amoral piece of trash. Uh nothing changes around here, I’m still on moderation, I don’t have the patience. Fare thee well.

  12. thetumta
    February 17, 2011, 9:57 pm

    children?

  13. ToivoS
    February 17, 2011, 10:35 pm

    triple e has dominated this thread but it is instructive. Notice the Hasbara talking point — rock throwing is violence. Gandhi would not approve. Therefore, Israel is free to unleash state violence against rock throwing children. Israel, who in this one example, is upholding Gandhian principles of non violence as justification of their own violence. I mentioned this before but has anyone noticed — the Zionists are now experts on Gandhian nonviolent principles especially when they can be used to justify the oppression of the Palestinians.

    Anyone who followed the Tahrir square demonstrations must know that the antigovernment demonstrators engaged in some very heavy duty rock throwing. But those demonstrators are now being held up heroes of the Egyptian uprising as they should be. Even the US government is now praising them. And furthermore they are being praised for their restraint and non violence, as they should be.

    This is the double standard. The Palestinians are being held to impossible standards and that despicable human triple e is out in force to tell us all why Palestinian children deserve their punishment. And I do hope that Gandhi’s disciples among the “liberal Zionist” know enough to shut up about now.

    • eee
      February 17, 2011, 11:50 pm

      Just take a look at the film. The policemen were just driving through and without provocation the kid throws a stone at their van. Does that look the same as the case where Egyptian protesters were throwing stones back at people attacking them?

      And again, you want to use violence, use violence. Nobody is holding the Palestinians to any standards. They tried violence and it did not work well for them.

      Of course, a Jew that believes Jews have a right to defend themselves is “despicable”. I wouldn’t expect less of you and your ilk on this blog. Too bad that Jews have become assertive and can protect themselves isn’t it? I know you long for previous centuries when people like you could call Jews “despicable” and then drive them out of town after a few murders and rapes.

      • Chaos4700
        February 17, 2011, 11:57 pm

        Israeli policemen have no business on the West Bank. Either these are soldiers of the occupation, or they are unlawful combatants. Assuming one wants to, you know, respect international law here.

      • Woody Tanaka
        February 18, 2011, 12:02 am

        “Just take a look at the film. The policemen were just driving through and without provocation the kid throws a stone at their van.”

        You don’t know that there was no provocation. I mean, besides the decades-long provocation of the Jews stealing the Arabs’ land, murdering their children, destroying their lives, ethnically cleansing them, etc.

        And you don’t know what these Jewish militants, these so-called police, were doing immediate prior to the start of the video. It wouldn’t surprise me if they weren’t going about their normal routine of randomly, without reason, assaulting people, stealing their property, destroying their livelihood, or desecrating their holy places.

        Given the history of the last 100 years, I’d say that the latter is more likely than this boy throwing a stone “without provocation.” Hell, the whole Zionist project and everyone whole a part of it is one big provocation.

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 12:11 am

        Yes, of course, empowered Jews are a “big provocation”. Slowly but surely your true face is emerging. Who needs evidence of violence committed by Zionist Jews? One can just assume it. Heck, just being a Zionist means one is violent!

      • Chaos4700
        February 18, 2011, 12:47 am

        “Jews?” Try European Zionist militants. Stop using the whole of Judaism as a human shield for your war mongering and land theft, eee.

      • annie
        February 18, 2011, 12:56 am

        bingo

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 1:07 am

        What percentage of Jews are Zionists? 90%? 95%? 99%?
        “European Zionist militants”? Most Israeli Jews are not of European origin. And, the non-Ashkenazi Jews are more right leaning than the Ashkenazi ones! In fact, the Sepharadic Jews are the backbone of the Likud and the reason it is in power.

        For all practical purposes, Judaism is correlated very highly with Zionism. If you are a Jew, it is almost certain that you are a Zionist. Do you guys live in the real world?

      • annie
        February 18, 2011, 3:15 am

        If you are a Jew, it is almost certain that you are a Zionist.

        even if this were true in theory (it isn’t), it’s definitely not true in practice.

      • ddi
        February 18, 2011, 5:33 am

        “Yes, of course, empowered Jews are a “big provocation”. ”

        A decades long occupation is definitely a big provocation. Nice try reducing that to just Jews being empowered, how innocent sounding.

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 11:09 am

        “If you are a Jew, it is almost certain that you are a Zionist.”

        This is just true. The number of non-Zionist Jewish organizations is minuscule.

      • andrew r
        February 18, 2011, 10:26 pm

        eee – Once upon a time 2 million Jews emigrated from Tsarist Russia showing indifference to Palestine. If Zionism was so bound up in Judaism, why did most of the well-known Zionist figures (Bialik, Ruppin, Ben-Gurion, Jabotinsky) turn their backs on their traditional Jewish upbringing, while others (Herzl, Warburg) had none to begin with? Why did they detest the Sephardic/Eastern Jews?

        You may be right that most Jews today are concerned about Israel (This is hard to ascertain), however, historically, Zionism didn’t have more than a few thousand early adopters before British imperialism and Nazi persecution pushed more German Jews into Palestine.

        Palestine is racially segregated and the Zionist regime wants every Jew in the world to identify with it. This can’t last forever.

  14. optimax
    February 17, 2011, 11:55 pm

    The Israeli police are a modern Gestapo and the Israeli people are a cruel and fearfull people. My country is criminal for supporting them and the other ME authoritarians.

  15. crone
    February 18, 2011, 12:57 am

    I have looked at the beginning of the film several times… I fail to see the child throw a rock. The text underneath says :

    “… Kareem’s arrest was part of a strategy to apply as much pressure as possible on his 14-year-old brother Islam, who was arrested the previous day in a night raid, in order that Islam will deliver any script that his investigators wanted. The strategy worked, and Kareem was released later the same evening.

    After this arrest happened, the army spokespersons unit alerted the media and twitter followers that another ‘wanted suspect’ was taken in for security questioning. They failed to mention that he was an 11-year-old child.”

    • Hu Bris
      February 18, 2011, 8:23 am

      “I have looked at the beginning of the film several times… I fail to see the child throw a rock.”

      Oh you mean that eee(k!) LIED about the contents and context of the video?

      well what would you expect – he’s a racist who thinks that any action carried out by Zionists in Israel is done purely for some mythical ‘greater good’ and he will support it all no matter what is done in Israel’s name

      • eee
        February 18, 2011, 9:44 am

        Are you blind?
        Take a closer look. The child runs after the police van and throws a rock at it.

      • talknic
        February 18, 2011, 11:38 am

        eee February 18, 2011 at 9:44 am

        “The child runs after the police van and throws a rock at it”

        WOW….. Say what are the police from a foreign state doing in Palestine? Part of an occupation?

  16. talknic
    February 18, 2011, 7:21 am

    eee doesn’t see 62 years of oppression, doesn’t see 62 years of dispossession, doesn’t see 62 years of illegal acquisition, illegal annexation, illegal settlement, back by the IDF, completely ignoring the law, ignoring UNSC resolutions…. as provocation.

    With all eee doesn’t see, perhaps he should have his guide dog explain it.

    • Chaos4700
      February 18, 2011, 8:37 am

      Oh he sees it. It’s just that he embraces it. He loves it.

      Like I keep saying. What you describe is Israel. The whole damned state is built around Zionism, and Zionism is built around taking everything that Palestinians have and making it exclusively Jewish. Including the act of merely living.

      • Mooser
        February 18, 2011, 11:58 am

        The funniest part, Chaos, is that every time they open their knish-holes, yonira and “eee” do such a good job of justifying, or even arguing the necessity, of the Holocaust.

        And I’ll bet yonira hasn’t even crushed a glass under the canopy yet, so he can have “his Jewish children” to fight for Israel. How’s that going yoni? You wouldn’t want us to think you made that entire episode up out of the whole matzoh. You remember, you were converting your girlfriend to Judaism so you could marry her? What you call “rolling my own”?

        I just don’t see it. If Mondoweiss doesn’t need the hits for advertising rate purposes, why tolerate liars, time-wasters and bigots? Or maybe some day they might concede that maybe Israel isn’t the greatest place in the world, like Yonah does, and we can all have an orgasm?

      • Chaos4700
        February 18, 2011, 5:33 pm

        Frankly, I think Phil is weak. He still thinks that there’s some magic wand that can be waved, or some resounding truth or something that will make American Jews turn around and say, “My God! What kind of monstrosity have been funding?”

        That’s just not happening, as eee pointed out. To be perfectly blunt, the leadership of the Jewish American community is morally bankrupt. And those Jews who aren’t members of that “chosen” elite — the wealthy, the influential, the gatekeepers of government and media employment — aspire to be them. So we’re not going to see any “Egyptian revolution” over here.

        Just hang on to your Judaism, Mooser, and keep it safe for when this blows over. People like yonira will convert to whatever faith gets them ahead, so sooner or later you’ll be able to reclaim Judaism from these selfish twits who just want to pad their otherwise threadbare resumes when commercial Judaism gets dropped, like any other fad.

      • yonira
        February 18, 2011, 9:21 pm

        you are an anti-semite Chaos. You can call everyone racist for saying the word Arab which is BS but I have some news for you, this shit that you just spouted is as anti-semitic as it gets. Your obsession w/ the Holocaust and with Naziism is sick. I know the echo chamber won’t think so and this probably will be censored, but I am calling it like it is.

      • yonira
        February 18, 2011, 9:28 pm

        Mooser you and Chaos are obsessed with making shit up. Is this a pre-requisite to be anti-Israel, you need to lie constantly? Is your movement so weak that you need to make shit up so often? How has that worked for the Palestinians? How does lying about my faith and constant attacks on people help them Mooser please answer me that.

      • yonira
        February 18, 2011, 9:28 pm

        Annie,

        Remember when you said you’d come to the defense of someone mocking my decision to become Jewish? my decision to following the religion of my ancestors?

      • annie
        February 18, 2011, 9:31 pm

        yes i remember.

      • annie
        February 18, 2011, 9:55 pm

        mooser’s comment about crushing a glass under the canopy so you can have “his Jewish children” to fight for Israel was mean, but i didn’t register it as mocking your decision to become jewish. i saw it as something he could have said to any jewish man who had not gotten married yet. i’m not defending him saying it, i’m saying i didn’t hear is as relating to conversion.

        wrt chaos’s statement, i think there are many many non jews who aspire to be part of the elite, and aren’t. and i think there are many jews who are not part of the elite and do not aspire to be.

        i think the idea any person converts to a religion to ‘get ahead’ is weird. i can understand why a politician might do it in this climate or why a person might do it to marry the person they love, but i don’t think most people convert to a religion (in this day and age) to get ahead. i wouldn’t imagine so anyway. i thought the statement was below the belt.

        that said there is a lot of shit flying in this comment section and i’m not much interested in stepping into the shit. the comment that most represents my sentiments is lobewyper’s here. i think arguing the necessity of army soldiers to invade a house in the middle of the night to kidnap children is morally vacuous. that’s just my opinion.

        normal communities deal w/stone throwing children with parents community leaders and police.

        armies are adult affairs. children shouldn’t be either conscripted or prosecuted by armies. doesn’t the idf have better things to do than arrest children? or is that their preferred tactic for suppressing the adults.

        seems kinda sadistic to me. i think tensions are high in this thread because the subject is morally repugnant to average people, so it brings out people’s fangs. no one should be in a position of defending an army acting against children. but israel’s supporters are and arguing it vigorously at that. it’s just disgusting to me.

        that’s all i have to say.

      • yonira
        February 18, 2011, 10:39 pm

        This conversion idea to get ahead is BS, I converted because it was the religion of my father and his family, whom I respect greatly. In the Reform tradition I was already considered “Jewish.”

        I am done explaining this to you.

        BTW Mooser, me and my girlfriend just moved in together and she went down the the JCC and ‘enlisted’ us in derech Torah classes. This is what people do when they love each other, they like to learn more about each other and what is dear to them.

        Thank you Annie, I am sorry I brought you up like that, but I can take a lot of crap, but when someone sinks to the levels that Chaos and Mooser did, it hurts.

      • lobewyper
        February 19, 2011, 8:26 am

        Annie, it is an honor to represent your sentiments on this topic–appreciate it!

  17. optimax
    February 18, 2011, 11:48 am

    The kid did throw a rock. So what, I wouldn’t blame him if he’d thrown a bomb. People have the right to violently resist oppression–some say a duty. People are resisting with force, if not violence, in much of the world to the ruling elite. It started in Europe, spread to the ME and is even beginning in the U.S. Notice how it’s starting in the heartland and not on the coasts.

  18. lobewyper
    February 18, 2011, 8:58 pm

    eee has used simple hasbara throughout this discussion and managed thereby to almost hold his own. Amazing! His basic argument is that the police were within their rights to arrest this boy because they were acting in self-defense and attempting to maintain order. From this he moves to the point that Israelis have a right to self-defense just like every other human on this planet. He then insinuates that many of us essentially would deny Israelis (not to mention all other Jews) the right of self-defense because we criticize the arrest of this boy. Such criticism “proves” for eee that anti-semitism and Jew-hatred are rampant and that such hatred justifies and necessitates any steps Israel deems necessary to ensure its own “defense.” As others have pointed out, eee shows no concern for human rights, international law, the right to resist (even with force) an illegal occupation, and regard for the welfare of children (not to mention Palestinian men and women) that have suffered or died in order that Israel could steal their land and resources. He admits that Palestinians may have suffered as a result of the establishment of Israel, but implies that the “greater good” has been served in the process, because Israeli welfare outweighed the damage done to the Palestinians and other Arabs in the formation of his country. This is an explicitly racist assessment and totally self-serving to any impartial observer. Although he asserts that the creation of Israel was a moral and realistic necessity, he ignores the many ways in which Israelis could have mitigated the trauma of their country’s establishment. Eee, try reading Jerry Haber more often…

  19. Djinn
    February 19, 2011, 7:35 am

    I would actually like to thank eee for his unrepentant bigotry. In the circles I socialise & work in it’s easy to forget how commonplace this insane casual racism against Palestinians is in Israel. I’ll be back in the West Bank later this year and will be confronted by settlers, faces contorted with apoplectic hatred, screaming obscenities at children. Reading eee’s many repugnant apologias here is handy training in gag reflex repression.

  20. adelhelal
    February 24, 2011, 2:36 am

    That intimidation has been there for many years.

    If only Israeli’s themselves knew that it all comes down to the origins of the Middle East crisis:

    link to hubofmiddleeastpolitics.blogspot.com

    That blog explains the entire crisis and its conception. I’m certain that if more jews knew they would start to consider actual peace negotiations.

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