For those who say that there are no foreign policy goals for Egyptian protesters, you need to watch this. In it, Egyptians (more than 2 million [yesterday]) in Tahrir Square chant: "To Jerusalem we are heading, Martyrs in the millions." (Yes, it rhymes in Arabic)
(hat tip Taxi)
The Egyptians are welcome to try, but not to complain about the results.
If they meant it literally, they could have started marching east right then. I don’t believe that they’re the first people to come up with using “Jerusalem” as a rallying point or symbolic goal. ;)
Not that someday someone might not show up who not only means it literally, but literally possesses the means. Probably not within the next decade or two.
The Egyptians aren’t asking for your permission – geddit eee? THAT’S their point!
And Nasrallah dropped a bomb on the isreali ears the other day by asking his fighters to be ready to liberate the Galilee area in the occupied territories should another war “be imposed on Lebanon”.
Seems to me that a heck of a lot of people, like millions of them, are ready for big changes.
Is israel ready? Cuz they’re still ‘welcome’ to change their agressive behavior.
Be warned thou: the door of that opportunity is fast closing in its face.
And Nasrallah dropped a bomb on the isreali ears
it was after barak’s provocative bomb from the day before.
Oh he means it, annie.
And he’ll hand it over to the real owners when all is said and done.
It’s standard military strategy/practice to teach/show the encroaching enemy that THERE ARE equal deterrents. It’s just not been stated before as a ‘call out’.
Israel will be launching a war sooner than later – everybody in the region knows that. Only three weeks ago it was hoping that civil strife will ensue over the Hariri business and it can use this as pretext to strike at Lebanon and hizbollah. The much laboured over evil plan whimpered out in the eleventh hour and the war that israel was preparing for COULD NOT materialize – because the hizb had yet again outsmarted the usa-israel combined.
The hizb has no other option but to send very strong signals of warnings and this one WILL prick up jthe lazy-from-arrogance israeli ears.
israel and it’s people aren’t the ones talking about an invasion with millions dead.
this is so silly anways, there is no way the military will allow anything close to it.
talking about an invasion with millions dead.
ratchet ratchet ratchet.
yonira israel doesn’t have to talk about invasion: it bloody well does IT!
sure taxi, when did Israel last invade a country they have a peace treating with?
“when did they LAST invade a country…..?
Well I rest my case.
You’re funny, but not haha funny.
Taxi,
nice try, but the answer is never. Israel has never invaded a country they were at peace with. you’re dishonesty knows no bounds.
Who EXACTLY is israel at peace with? Jordan doesn’t count for obvious reasons: Jordanians hate israelis – a known fact.
What is peace to you? You on top of the rest?
Well the ‘rest’ ain’t taking bottom place no more.
Israel not only talks about invasion, it invades.
well you know except for the whole palestine thing
Egypt for one Taxi, the country you are anxiously awaiting to ‘liberate jerusalem’ with millions of deaths i might add.
a cold peace perhaps yonira, a peace only because our dictator puppet has not requested israel live up to it’s end of the treaty.
that’s not real peace, that is appeasement.
Taxi, so if the peace treaty does not count with Jordan or with Egypt. Since it was a top down effort, at odds with the democratic masses who hate the Jews, then is it ok for the Jews to reoccupy the Sinai? You don’t seem to see the outcomes of your argument.
Yes. Israel signed the CDA with Sadat, not with the Egyptian people, but, they withdrew from the Sinai. Maybe they believed the possibility of peace? maybe through pressure.
But, if you are right and the peace treaties have no meaning, then ultimately relations will case, the gas flow will stop, the Egyptian border will be a hostile one. Sounds great to the crowd, but for the lowly point that Israel will occupy the Sinai. It is obvious war is coming. There is nobody for Israel to negotiate with. I realize there is no possibility of appeasement.
This is not about settlements, ’67 borders, Nakba, but about vilification of Jews as an excuse for cultural stagnation. For those who claim Jews are an implant, a foreign implant, on to an arab land. I would completely 100 % agree.
Hey guys, hey zionists, please understand the REALITY:
YOUR PEACE WITH JORDAN AND EGYPT WAS A FAKE PEACE.
YOUR ZIONIST RULERS FOOLED YOU AND PUT YOU IN THIS POSITION OF PERMANENT INSECURITY.
Fakes peaces don’t count.
You idiots never bothered to befriend the ‘people’, you ONLY signed contracts with their DICTATORS!
Israel clearly has no shame. I believe they are in violation of more UN resolutions than any other nation on earth
link to mediamonitors.net
.html
During the period between 1967 and 2000, Iraq was the subject of 69 Security Council resolutions. By comparison, Israel, our closest “ally” in the Middle East, has been the subject of 138 resolutions. Not surprisingly, most of those resolutions call upon Israel to comply with basic principles of international law embodied by the UN Charter. Many of them condemn actions taken by Israel and call upon Israel on more than one occasion to comply with previous resolutions that Israel ignored and continues to ignore to this day.
On June, 14, 1967, through Resolution No. 237, the Security Council called upon Israel to “ensure the safety, welfare and security of the inhabitants, facilitate the return of those inhabitants who have fled the areas since the outbreak of the hostilities and recommends the scrupulous respect of the humanitarian principles contained in the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949.” In subsequent resolutions, the Security Council deplored Israel for the delay in its implementation of Resolution 237. Yet, Israel continued to defy the world community, including the United States. The Security Council, in the face of Israel’s defiance, passed no less than five subsequent resolutions demanding that Israel comply but to this day, thirty five years after June 14, 1967, the defiance continues.
I have always thought this was damn brave
Zbig Brzezinski: Obama Administration Should Tell Israel U.S. Will Attack Israeli Jets if They Try to Attack Iran
link to blogs.abcnews.com
It seems to me that this chant is not meant literally yonira. What these people are saying is that the Egyptian revolution is one step in overthrowing American and Israeli control over the Middle East. Israel’s oppression of the Palestinians is the ultimate symbol of the injustice that the US and Israel has perpetrated against everyday people in the region. Like Mubarak’s reign, Israel’s violent control over a group of people cannot last forever.
If the US cannot occupy Iraq, then Israel hasn’t got a hope of occupying the Sinai.
When Japan imperial forces attacked Pearl Harbour, there was no peace treaty, and somehow USA did not appreciate that.
Clearly, issuing threats of invasion and/or bombardment is not a USUAL behavior nowadays. Israel is really sticking out. Barak had no business threatening Lebanon.
The Jews have never been at peace with anyone, ever, in five thousand years. When conquered or dominated they remain quiescent, coyly pious. When empowered or sovereign, their aggressiveness awakens, feeds on their paranoia, and so they are on a hair trigger of distrust and preemptive violence 24/7/365/5000. The USS Liberty, the Lavon Affair, the bombings of the Iraqi Jews, the Mavi Marmara, no one, adversary, ally, or disinterested third party is immune to attack. And the justification is always the same: the self-fulfilling prophecy of “They hate, us they want to exterminate us, they were coming to kill us.”
And we have sold both sides weaponry with our military aide.
which makes a war between the two pretty unlikely. and in the unlikeliness their is a war, Israel will be the one the US backs, not the Egyptians.
Doesn’t really matter who the U.S. backs or doesn’t back anymore. The last month should have clued you in on that. And the U.S. backed the last war on Lebanon, and remind me, what did Israel get from that???? It’s a serious question, you see, I can never figure it out.
Israel won’t win – it has no moral highground and will be defeated in a prolonged engagement.
Oh yeah and it WILL be abandoned by the usa when push comes to shove – which is where israel is dragging us towards anyway.
Please yonira understand the new reality: GAME OVER.
“Doesn’t really matter who the U.S. backs or doesn’t back anymore”
Hope and pray you are right. Hope and pray that the will of the majority of the people rules
So, Nasrallah is giving an opportunity to Israel? Thanks, I didn’t realize he was giving them an opportunity. Oh, I forgot, He’s head of ‘the resistance movement’ in Egypt.
Taxi, thanks for the warning. Is it ‘ok’ if Israel fight back? Is that ‘ok’ with Annie and Phil? Is it ‘ok’ if Israel wins? What will the masses in Tahir Square do then? Protest harder or threaten to March to Tel Aviv?
I don’t get you Taxi. You seemed like a reasonable poster, but according to your thesis it is Nasrallah who is being reasonable. My own position would have been for Israel to withdraw to the ’67 borders. But that doesn’t seem even close to appeasing Nasrallah, the great unwashed everywhere, or the posters and Mondoweiss.
But I’m a warmonger and that’s all that matters. Israel is full of warmongers and that is our only problem in the middle east. Nothing else. There is no problem of any type other than the Jewish inplant. Thanks. But I guess the question remains: is it ok if the deck is stacked against Israel like in ’67, that Israel kicks the ass? Is that OK? For as Edrogan reminds us: you know well how to kill.
So you stigmatize the Jews. Demonize them. Threaten killing them. Kill them. But, god forbid they fight back. That’s not ok. But I’ve got news for you, somehow I don’t see a victorious arab masses marching anywhere near Jerusalem, let alone through the Sinai.
But the victory will give solace to Jew Lovers everywhere: more occupied lands to bitch about. More grist for the mill. And the lovely Helen Thomas will have a bad hair day at the uppity, occupying oven dodgers. Did I get it right?
nice strawman bio. are you denying the fact barak threatened lebanon prior to either Nasrallah or Suleiman’s response?
Nasrallah only spews talk on a weekly basis against a. the Jews and b. sometimes differentiating them as Israelis from the start. Are you claiming that H. Nasrallah only began hostile comments towards Israel after Barack statements. So, that’s the extent of your history. And what of H. Nasrallah’s talking against the Jews as an ethnic group. Is that a straw man as well?
What Barak said was that the army needs to be prepared in case it has to enter Lebanon. He was not threatening war. He was making a point about the readiness of the IDF. Nasrallah and the Lebanese of course took it out of context and started their diatribes.
do you have the quote?
don’t ask me what i said when you can read it yourself. what do you think of what suleiman said?
Here you go:
link to haaretz.com
bio (and eee if he must),
The people of the region, the new generation, don’t believe in the crappy 67 border idea – it doesn’t address the Nakba.
So long as israel refuses to admit, apologize and compensate for the Nakba refugees, no ‘peaceful’ road is possible.
Israel physically pushed people out of their homes, so why are zionists outraged at the prospect of them being pushed out of their illegal land acquisitions?
And as far as Nasrallah is concerned, dismiss him at your own risk. The man means business and you damn well know he does which is really what scares you.
thanks eee. ynet carries a fuller quote.
Biorabbi,
Re: Nasrallah only spews talk on a weekly basis against a. the Jews and b. sometimes differentiating them as Israelis from the start.
As Jeffrey Blankfort has pointed out on these boards many times, the word Jews to describe Israelis is commonplace in the ME. It doesn’t have that holocaust-laden-omigod-they’re-coming-to-kill us-ethnic-horror meaning that North Americans like to impute to its usage.
How is he supposed to address the inhabitants of the country? Is he supposed to pull a Prince and develop some symbol?
When in Rome….
Taxi,
I totally agree with you. It is the Palestinian and Arab “all or nothing” stance that is the main reason there is no peace.
As for Nasrallah, what he will bring about is the destruction of Lebanon. I am not dismissing him. I hope you understand that if he wants to destroy me, I have every right to destroy him. Most Lebanese do not want peace with Israel but they also do not want war. I can live with that. If Nasrallah can’t, Lebanon has a major problem. But the fact is that for the last 5 years the northern border of Israel has never been so quiet. And during Cast Lead, Hezbollah did not shoot ONE rocket at Israel or help the Palestinians in any way.
bio,
Yes I expect you, like all zionists, to be confused as to the difference between zionism and judaism – the zionist manifesto is designed to create this confusion.
But I’m not confused about the difference between the two like you are. I really don’t give a flying fig what religion you are or how many holocausts you’ve had – all I care about is that you’re not using this as justification to murder and steal from others.
eee
I hope you understand that if he wants to destroy me, I have every right to destroy him.—
respectfully suggest a change from “wants to destroy” to “acts to destroy”.
the wish may be father to the deed but wishes aren’t deeds.
Bio, calling for democracy is a far cry from hating people. The fact of the matter is that there is less than a majority of Jewish people in Israel. So that Jewish minority has no right to impose their values upon the rest of the population. But they choose to do it anyways – by force.
But what’s most frightening is the adherence to the language of domination. The idea that might makes right. We have so many brave Palestinians engaging in nonviolent protests, only to be met with strict applications of violence. If the entire Arab world engages with Israel nonviolently, what will Israel do?
eee(k!) – “As for Nasrallah, what he will bring about is the destruction of Lebanon. I am not dismissing him. I hope you understand that if he wants to destroy me, I have every right to destroy him”
unlike Israeli military, HezB have never attacked within the borders of the Zionist state Israel unless Israel first attacked them – so who exactly is out to destroy?
Israel has invaded Lebanon many times now trying to destroy both Lebanon and Hezbollah – Hezbollah have never invaded Israel –
By your logic eee(k!), HezBollah have the absolute right to destroy Israel by whatever means necessary since, time and time again, Israel has tried to destroy Hezbollah, usually without prior provocation – the mere existence of Arabs who have the sheer unmitigated gall to dare to fight back when Israel invades their country and tries to kill them, seems to be provocation enough for the Zionists.
eee(k!) “I hope you understand that if he wants to destroy me, I have every right to destroy him.—”
fuster – “respectfully suggest a change from “wants to destroy” to “acts to destroy”.
even changing eee(k!)’s statement to that recommended by fuster, according to the ‘logic’ (I use that word in it’s widest possible sense) employed by both eee(k!) AND fuster, Hezbollah STILL have the absolute right to destroy Israel by any means necessary, since it is obvious that Israel has acted numerous times to attempt to destroy both Hezbollah and Lebanon,
“Israelis” is succinct and clear, MRW
“We, however, were forced to such things. We had no choice. We do it not because we feel superior, but because we must in order to survive.” Joseph Goebbels
Hat tip: Antidote; see his comment below for a link to the whole thing.
Israeli hasbara copies nicely, eh?
Annie, about the erroneous YNet report, Barak had to be using the Amir Peretz idiot binoculars when he observed Hizbullah on the other side of the fence because no one sees Hizbullah doing anything military close to the border or anywhere else in the country. He also failed to mention that the Israelis that ran with their tails between their legs in May 2000 were led by none other than Benny Gantz and the rout of the 30,000 IDF soldiers by about 4,000 Hizbullah fighters in 2006 also happened while Gantz was the Israeli commander in Lebanon. So with already 2 failures in Lebanon against the new Chief of Staff, what is Barak talking about?
exactly, citizen, that was her (my) point ;)
eee, “the Palestinian and Arab “all or nothing” stance”, oh please!
The Saudi peace plan offer has been out there for over 5 years. No interest what so ever from the Zionists and you?. Tabba, no interest. Complete capitulation by Fatah(Palestine papers), no interest and on and on. Your people have passed on some of the best offers in human history and you, eee, just demand more. History has just done a major about face and it looks like you might be “the bag holders” once again. Got greedy and held a rising stock just a little too long. Who’s to blame? People with no insight, such as yourself. The prize is Saudi policy which is playing out next door, today. When it changes, say goodbye to the west and all the rest, eee. You just became a footnote in history.
Once someone wants me dead, I have a reason – I might, indeed should, regret having it, but it’s there – to want him dead. And at least from the moment that I have recognised that reason his desire for my death itself becomes as reasonable as my desire for his. That’s one of the basic propositions of Hobbes’ Leviathan, which it has been very difficult to refute, though Hobbes goes on to say that a life dominated by fear of suffering or inflicting destruction is unacceptable and needs to be changed. Recent generations tried after terrible experiences to make the change by developing international law, but this attempt is not meeting with full success.
“So you stigmatize the Jews. Demonize them. Threaten killing them. Kill them. But, god forbid they fight back. That’s not ok. ”
So if Jews do the same to other people, it’s not ok to fight back? Never works to attack a double standard while applying one.
I did a quick search for the matching Goebbels quote, and found this. Was WW II Hitler’s War? Churchill’s War? Stalin’s War? FDR’s War?
link to calvin.edu
3e: Israel almost lost the 1973 war, so a little humility might be in order. Instead of boasting from wherever you are, why not join the campaign for BDS, to bring about a peaceful solution?
James,
First, I was not boasting. Annie and Taxi and Seeham are justifying a war against Israel or for some reason happy with the Egyptians wanting to fight a war. That is fine. What is not fine, is starting a war and then complaining about the results. My advice to the Egyptians is simple, if you start a war, better be sure you can win it. The last thing I want is a war, but if you start one, be prepared to suffer the consequences.
During the Yom Kipur war Israel was never in real danger of losing. Neither the Syrians nor the Egyptians could advance past the defense lines of their SAMs. Not that Israel did not make mistakes and was taken by surprise. But Israel’s air superiority was only negated by the SAMs and they had limited range. Each time the Egyptians tried to move into areas with no SAM coverage, they were severely defeated. The fact of the matter is that Israel started out in the worst possible position, yet was able to turn the tables on its enemies.
Egypt crossed the canal, which the Israeli high command said was impossible. Israeli generals were reprimanded in a commision of inquiry, if I remember correctly.
No one should want war. But don’t be sure Israel will conrinue to win all of them.
The only war one wins is the one you don’t have to fight. I don’t want to fight any war, but I am certainly going to prepare for one. I (as one of many Israelis) am going to use Israeli ingenuity to develop the most sophisticated weapons I can. I am going to train as hard as I can. I am going to build shelters for the civilian population. I will fight the war in the most ferocious manner possible in order to end it as soon as possible. Does this promise that I will always win? No. But I am going to give it my best. And of course, when I make mistakes, I will learn from them.
Who said getting and holding a Jewish state is going to be a walk in the park?
Toppling Nazi Germany wasn’t a walk in the park, either, but it needed to be done to save innocent civilians from being crushed to death to feed a fascist ethnocentric police state, too.
James North.
Egypt did a very nice job in that war, but they never expected to win and their great aim was to redeem themselves for the disgraceful showing that they made in 67 by winning at least one battle so that they could honorably make a deal with the Israelis.
Golda Meir was sure glad for the whopping US military aid; she thought of Nixon as her good pal to her dying day. That aid cost the US a lot & the US still was dealing with Vietnamm.
eee, from the way you carry on about Israel and the 73 war, you were probably not born back then and you’re getting your history from some hasbara talking-points handbook. It’s a fact that at no time was Israel in danger of losing the war, especially after it threatened what it would do if America did not help it. Look up the Samson Option.
Israeli ingenuity??? quit believing your thug states propaganda. Israeli ingenuity is not responsible for the weapons Israel uses a steady stream of foreign funding and gifts form other nations
“their great aim was to redeem themselves for the disgraceful showing that they made in 67 by winning at least one battle so that they could honorably make a deal with the Israelis.”
Half right. They wanted to redeem their honor. But Sadat had already made a peace offer and was rejected. The storyline in the US is the one you just used, as part of the claim that Israel was always ready to make peace with any Arab country that offered it, but in fact it’s not true.
That’s odd? If Israeli major cities weren’t in range of the Russian supplied 175s, why did they blackmail Richard Nixon with threats of nuking the Russian Med Fleet, putting me and mine at Defcon5 that October? Why did the most massive airlift of armor from Diego Garcia and Europe commence when Nixon capitulated yet again(causing the firing of the Army’s most senior officer over the issue)? “Israel’s air superiority”? I don’t think so!
Hej! Tumta
Actually, Israel were considering the offer from Sadat before 1973, but Kisinger told them to forget about it and stick to their guns.
“humility” non existent
“Humility” is people chanting that they are marching to Jerusalem. That is “humility”. I am neither humble nor boastful. I am simply determined to perform my duty and defend Israel even if it costs my life.
defending Israel based on international agreements and internationally recognized borders is one thing…defending Israel no matter what they do is… complicit, stupid, immoral and criminal.
Don’t forget your tooth brush.
Egyptians don’t need your permission “eee”.
Of course not Cliff, and I do not need anyone’s permission to defend myself.
You were salivating at the prospect if invading the Sinai again just a week or two ago, eee.
except your being in palestine and preventing the liberation of the palestinians isn’t defense it an offensive tactic. and you believe the palestinians need your permission to defend them selves.
Oh they’ll be in Jerusalem within a week of you putting your boots down in the Sinai, eee. Count on it.
i wish this war drumbeat would stop. i don’t think this needs to be translated as a call for war.
Eee’s the one calling for war. I hope the little cretin is the first armbanded shock trooper to set foot in Sinai when Israel invades Egypt and starts the next great war. That makes it so much likely where the first bullet will end up, and the quality of life worldwide will get so much better.
I hope the little cretin is the first armbanded shock trooper to set foot in Sinai when Israel invades Egypt and starts the next great war.
omg sometimes i just have to spit up on my keyboard. i know i know my bad. war is not funny.
That wasn’t intended to be funny.
like i said, my bad. sometimes i blow a few circuits when blogging. it was the wording. sorry.
I’d bet eee’s never been in the military service and is too old now to be of any use–even his words are lame.
You remind me of Nasser. So much trash talk, so little results.
Nasser’s grandchildren are coming to bite you in the ass – or ya think the Nasserite ideology is dead and buried?
You know his ‘secular, socialist, pan Arab ideology’.
From recent events, looks like EVERYBODY in the mideast wants to live the Nasserian Dream (as opposed to the American Dream).
Don’t be arrogant. Jews suffered for centuries before they got the balls to come to Europe as colonizers. So let’s not talk about “results.”
Fortunately, tides of history show that nations rise and fall. Israel is no different. It’s time will come. So it would be in Israel’s interest to stop the murders, ethnic cleansing, and lies and man up and offer real peace to Palestinians.
The only thing Israeli soldiers hit reliably are children and medics. I cringe to think what the targeting range you trained on looked like, eee.
—Don’t be arrogant. Jews suffered for centuries before they got the balls to come to Europe as colonizers. So let’s not talk about “results.”—Saleema
I think that you may need to cool off a bit. You’re garbling.
both are essential for the survival of the group. taking out medics and children makes sense if your goal is to ethnically cleanse the population. that explains hitting hospitals and schools.
Why don’t you call her a neanderthal too, huh fuster? Or do you save that epithet just for Pakistanis you don’t consider “d0mesticated.”
Racist troll. You know, no one would miss you if you joined eee and Witty’s son in storming the Sinai.
Contrary to what the common belief is, Neanderthals were actually peaceful and domesticated beings. The only faculty they lacked was the faculty for organizing a pre-meditated war. Unlike us homo sapiens who ambushed them and genocided them out of existence.
But that certainly doesn’t excuse the new resident racist smartass (you know who you are) using this ignorance of real Neanderethals to spew out hatred against brown skinned people.
I don’t know why, chaos, but I think it’s Phil who lets these trolls post their trash here. I see Adam as more considerate and less egotistical.
i doubt if phil or adam saw that comment. look at the site today. there are almost 200 comments on this thread alone and phil’s ‘obama gives thumbs up’ post has almost 400 comments not to mention omar’s post and seham’s post.
that comment is inexcusable. as far as why he allows this poster to post here i really can’t say. write phil and email. use the report function.
Why is it ‘inexcusable’ annie?
Phil doesn’t mind a bit of critique, he’s a journalist. You don’t have to take it personally. Especially that I didn’t say it as a dig, but as an observation.
taxi, i’m talking about fester’s comment which was definitely racist and used in a racist way.. not our conversation about it.
oh okay annie – I musta completely forgot that fuster existed and didn’t put two and two together.
here you go, annie …..
“The local Taliban have issued fatwas denouncing vaccination as an American ploy to sterilize Muslim populations.”
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
i get it fus, and no i would not be lining up my children to have the people who are bombing my villages give them an injection.
either way it is off topic and you should apologize for making a gruesome offensive statement.
no annie, you don’t get it if you think that the people who were injecting the Pakistani kids were the same people who were bombing their villages.
The doctors and nurses weren’t involved with any bombing. They must assuredly aren’t the same people. They weren’t even Americans, annie.
You want to call medical teams from Europe ….bombers?
You sure wouldn’t like hearing that Americans were calling Indian or Jordanian doctors in American hospitals bombers because Americans were lumping them in Al Qaeda.
YOU need to sort out some stuff.
And you sure didn’t understand that remark that offended you.
When, the other day, I called the dozen Brooklyn rabbis that attended the Iranian event neanderthals, did you find that equally racist?
more bringing in peoples families, you are a class act chaos.
The only thing Israeli soldiers hit reliably are children and medics.
tell that to the Egyptian air force Chaos.
sent you a reply, annie, an hour ago.
if and when it pops up, let’s see if we can reach some understanding.
Oooh! Yes, yonira, how courageous! hitting a bunch of stationary, disarmed targets in a blitzkrieg strike while they are grounded!
It took more skill for the 9/11 hijackers to commit their atrocities, and they were flying planes that maneuvered like whales, on a few months of flight school.
sans this there will be no understanding
Go easy on him Chaos,
Yonira’s clingint to the last time Israel won a war, and a the last military that knew how to fight one.
Meanwhile we can all “migrate” to Witty’s property, and “reside”in his house. He said that’s fine.
It’s music to my ears! Suck it up.
Annie,
Thanks for posting this, if not for the horrifying videos from Bahrain that I believe need as much coverage as possible, I most definitely would have selected THIS video for my lead. Boyfriend and I have watched this a million times.
“lal Quds ray7een, shohadaa2 bil malayeen”
it’s stunning isn’t it seham. yes, i have watched it over and over since taxi linked to it last night.
Annie, it is beyond stunning. All these years I looked around in disbelief at the Arab world’s reaction to the Palestinian issue. But look what happens when the Arabs no longer live under a dictator that will throw them in jail and sodomize them for not towing the government line: you see two million people in Tahrir chanting for the liberation of Palestine. It literally takes my breath away. And the same happened in Tunisia after they got rid of Ben Ali. This is from Al Jazeera Arabic but it shows Tunisians chanting that the people want the liberation of Palestine go to minute 2:50, that’s what Tunisians chanted when Mubarak fell: link to youtube.com
seham, last night taxi said (paraphrasing) ‘can you imagine being a palestinian in that crowd and witnessing them breaking out in this chant’ and i replied something along the lines of ‘can you imagine being a palestinian watching this on TV?’ (i think that is what i wrote, it was very late).
needless to say i cried. they have to stop judaizing jerusalem. they have to stop. it is unsustainable. they can’t steal all of jerusalem and expect to ever live in peace.
i was so immersed in your comment i forgot to open the video.
yes, palestine is not a local issue and it isn’t a regional issue and it isn’t an arab issue. it is a global issue. it isn’t just a symbol it is real. the palestinians are the longest suffering repressed people on the globe right now in modern times. and the ethnic cleansing still goes on right now unabated for decades. it has massive implications. this is what i mean by Palestinians are holding up the world. it is a global issue and it’s not going away until it is resolved. really.
i’m so glad you’re here.
I’m glad you’re here Annie.
seham .“lal Quds ray7een, shohadaa2 bil malayeen”
what does this mean? i tried putting it thru google translate but that only works for arabic letters. i know Al Quds is jerusalem.
To Jerusalem we march, martyrs in the millions.
thank you. i thought so i just wanted to make sure.
A very bad precedent.
This is not conditional acceptance, this is murderous threat. (“Martyrs”)
Don’t panic, Richard. It’s only democracy in action….
“Don’t let it bring you down, it’s only castles burning…”
I don’t see that a threat of mass murder is “democracy in action”.
Tell it to eee, he’s the one threatening mass murder.
witty, you need to work on your messaging. you said this less than an hr ago.
now i could ask you the same thing.
what world do you people live on!?!?!?!!?!? the post is about the Egyptians talking about 1 million martyrs and an invasion of Israel.
beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Annie, I find it hard to see how Witty can respond to your quote. I wouldn’t be shocked if he disappeared for a few days.
I regard Annie’s response as fascist, advocacy of mass murder.
richard, the term means
my meaning was yonira’s thought and your thoughts and how you process these events exists merely in the mind which contemplates them
that means the idea of ‘mass murder’ tells us about you. it’s a window into your soul. it is not only beauty in the mind of the beholder, it applies to ugliness also. it is you channeling mass murder here although i will not stoop to your level and imply you are advocating it.
take chill pill and expand your mind.
They aren’t talking about an invasion. that just pure paranoria.
You know your hypocrisy is really begining to get under my skin. you supported violence to steal people’s property and rights so if people feel they need violence and force to those back from the thieves you do not get to complain. Your the one who wants fascist mass murder because you refuse to peaceful let people have what is rightfully theirs.
“Martyr operation”.
It doesn’t ring a bell to you?
Why not, Dick Witty? The Egyptians are chanting they want to march to Jerusalem to “cash a check” for “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” They’ve not stopped warning fellow protesters not to “allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.” They have a dream not unlike the American Dream, and the religious themes often used by MLK–just a different religion, but same God. They are chanting and singing of a Middle East where their children “will not be judged by the color of their skin, or their religion, or their ethnic group, but by the content of their character.” Let freedom ring.
When they allow freedom to ring, when they let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, they will be able to speed up that day when all of God’s children, black men, brown men, and white men, and all women too, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, Shia and Sunni, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old American Negro spiritual, “Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, we are free at last.” That’s a good thing, all and all. Might not be too good for Zionists, but what the hey, it wasn’t too good for the KKK either.
‘operation’?
amen.
I regard you a racist and advocate of Palestinian ethnic cleansing.
This is just Witty’s attempt to yet again Goebbelize Arabs as “the great Muslim threat to the West!” by suborning the meaning of words. If he can convince people that Arabs are all suicide bombers, he can keep chanting that they were going to die anyway so Israel has every right to bomb every Arab in sight.
Witty’s no peace maker. When the Mavi Marmara was under bloody assault, he took a break to go off and celebrate.
So like wasn’t jesus a martyr?
A jewish martyr?
“Don’t panic, Richard. It’s only democracy in action…. ”
I know, I know! I read the comment and laughed too. Usually after I read his comments I feel my blood boiling, since the fall of Mubarak, I can only laugh my teez off at the Zionist comments here and elsewhere, much healthier reaction!
here comes the “mob”, Richard, the equivalent of us the left/right posse.
“this is murderous threat. (“Martyrs”)”
martyr = someone who suffers a violent death for a religious/political cause
murderer = someone who kills someone else (including martyrs)
not sure i understand your point. i think he was more concerned over the part of “liberating Jerusalem.” any liberation of Jerusalem would include many deaths.
not so, see: south africa.
i love this crew, you guys have an irrelevant answer for everything on here.
yep Annie, just like SA.
not necessarily though given the Israeli and a lesser extent jewish belief in the idea that the palestinians have no right to palestine it would probably involve some violence. though if the violence is an issue you could instead of supporting thugs and thieves support their victims and advocate a peaceful transfer of palestinian property back to them, the return of the palestinian to their country, and the removal of the obsteciles to their self determiantion you and yours have put in their way.
any liberation of Jerusalem would include many deaths.
It would if the Israelis were doing the ‘liberating’, but not the Egyptians, as recent events show.
Egypt was already an old, old, old society by the time Sun Tzu wrote his directives.
Don’t forget: Egyptian society is over 5,000 years old and contiguous (just like China). Egyptian knowledge, invention, and philosophy (not to mention their architecture and astronomy) is some of the greatest the world has ever known. Nothing in Israel’s past can hold a candle to Egyptian achievement over millennia.
Yonira,
You need some serious self-educating. Ditto Witty.
The word ‘martyr’ in Arabic/Islam does not mean what you think it means. I would suggest you look it up. Not much different than what the Isley Brothers sang about in 1966 in Testify, or what Christians mean when they say, As God is my witness:
MRW
nothing in Egypt’s present or recent past is worth the candle, if you want to be silly about it.
I wonder if Annie would feel the same if we suggested liberating her home. . .
bwwwahh. Annie would feel the same if we suggested liberating her home
thinking about moving the zionist ethnic cleansing operation to northern calif are ya? not so sure the jewish community here is as in sync w/zionist agenda as they are in jerusalem. you could try tho.
lol, you crack me up.
so when Hamas says that it sent somebody with a vest or a truck bomb and the person was martyred, it’s got nothing to do with being dead or engaging in an act of violence?
fuster and jose,
You both sound very worried – anything I can do to help?
sometimes it amazes me people actually address your stupid questions. it’s all a rhetorical game for you, or that’s how you come across.
Fuster, when an Israeli soldier fires on a teenage boy in the “kill zone” in Gaza from a sniper post and shoots him dead, he is referred to as a martyr. Are you going to blame him for — oh wait, that’s right. You do blame Palestinian children when they end up with Israeli bullets in them. “Damn suicide babies!”
“any liberation of Jerusalem would include many deaths.”
by heart attacks? pre-existing conditions? Muslim honor killings? Or by what and whom?
“To Jerusalem we are heading, Martyrs in the millions.”
Just says they are going to Jerusalem. Doesn’t say they are staging a military attack. How would the IDF handle it?
Why not? I’ve got as much historical right to your house as the Egyptians have to Jerusalem.
No reason citizens of Egypt couldn’t go to Jerusalem I guess. Not sure Al Aqsa can accommodate 1 million worshipers at the same time.
Is that before or after the IDF opens up on crowds of Muslim near the Al-Aqsa for the nth time?
Like 1948?
martyr = terrorist if killed by IDF, like Turks of the flotilla, or Gaza fishermen.
Thus a peaceful march toward Jerusalem is a terrorist threat. Why aren’t those folk arrested? Shouldn’t we call Egypt’s president and kvetch?
“A very bad precedent. This is not conditional acceptance, this is murderous threat.”
certainly no worse than saying : “I think ethnic cleaning [of Palestinians] is currently not necessary”, eh Dick?
The MSM keeps repeating the Egyptians are not pissed off with Israel or the U.s.
If only Israel would play by the same rules that they demand that their neighbors abide by.
Uh, can everyone take a chill pill?! (I know it does excite some of you guys…..)
“A million martyrs to Jerusalem” is a trope (a metaphorical phrase), used many times. The last most well known is Arafat, in 2003 (in the middle of the Intifada, when he was under “house arrest” in Ramallah). The Israelis had made vague threats to “remove” him. He responded with the same phrase. I think Egyptians are flexing muscles of freedom of expression they haven’t been allowed to use for many years. Throughout the last 3 weeks in Tahrir one of the most used chants was also, “Peaceful, peaceful.” Why don’t we make a big deal out of that one too?
Cuz they DON’T mean ‘peaceful’ towards israel, harvey.
It’s a frigging fact!
They half blame israel for their 30 years of Mubarak!
This is beyond realism – this is ULTRA REALISM:
The people of the middle east will NEVER accept zionism amongst them.
And the will of the MAJORITY of the people, will eventually be manifest.
they can blame USRAEL
harveystein and all the usual Israel defenders on this thread are responding with predictable denial.
They are still consumed and confident in their own military’s might, counting on the Israeli army to wipe out thousands if not millions should they dare to challenge Israel’s brutal and criminal policies.
Instead of taking this moment to reflect on Israel’s actions over the years, instead of reflecting on the democratic changes sweeping the region and modifying their behavior and their policies toward the Palestinians, they are busy chest-beating, intoxicated with their own might and supremacy.
Those symptoms, namely that denial is typical of many of the dictators across the Middle East. Mubarak was in extreme denial and then he fell. Israeli society and the Israeli government are still in denial.
It’s not too late to reform, alas Israelis will not wake up from their stupor until it’s too late, until they are the only ones left in the region as an island of belligerence, oppression and barbarity. And then millions will truly march to Jerusalem in defiance of Israel’s conceit.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
All they need to do is to participate in one failed small unit operation against a comparably armed equal force that doesn’t go as planned. They’ll find their legs. Think 2006 South Lebanon. Perhaps they could volunteer for the next one?
I have to admit that I am confused as to the significance of the chant by the demonstrators (WOW!! 2 MILLION!!) – is it a reaction to the US veto or an ongoing repudiation of Israel’s maltreatment of the Palestinians or the sub-text to another issue?
As an aside, don’t hold your breath in anticipation of this video making its way to the MSM.
don’t hold your breath in anticipation of this video making its way to the MSM.
lol, death by suffocation is not one of my aims in life. no i don’t think this will go mainstream unless israel decides to use it as a pretext to invade. then it could go viral like the ‘push into the sea’ or ‘wipe off the map’ jargon.
Wonder if they will keep repeating that the protesters have not carried any negative signs or shouted any negative chants about USRAEL
Chet,
Those images from Bahrain aren’t helping, nor the reports on Al-Jazeera that the people doing the shooting in Bahrain are outside-the-country troops. God help the US if any of the materiel is discovered to be American.
I think that veto yesterday was a huge mistake. I watched Susan Rice on Al-Jazeera call it “Sovereign Israel” and it struck my ear as so wrong. She was the only one who opposed the resolution. There are consequences, and our government should have listened when McMullen and Petraeus told them a year ago that the I/P situation was the tinderbox.
Look at the map to see what is happening, and remember that China is in Africa. Big time. Add Pakistan.
Jeez, even the ultra hack “Chicklets” aka “Plugs” VP BEiden said the settlements were a big problem for US.
“”To Jerusalem we are heading, Martyrs in the millions.”
Wonder if CNN, MSNBC, Fox, Cspan are streaming this ?
They should; this march was televised:
The revolution is at hand, and we must free ourselves of the chains of political and economic slavery. The nonviolent revolution is saying, “We will not wait for the courts to act, for we have been waiting hundreds of years. We will not wait for the President, nor the Justice Department, nor Congress, but we will take matters into our own hands, and create a great source of power, outside of any national structure that could and would assure us victory.” For those who have said, “Be patient and wait!” we must say, “Patience is a dirty and nasty word.” We cannot be patient, we do not want to be free gradually, we want our freedom, and we want it now. We cannot depend on any political party, for the Democrats and the Republicans have betrayed the basic principles of the Declaration of Independence. John Lewis, August 28, 1963.
Now that old Dick Witty’s zionist shoe is on the other foot, he’s just not as thrilled as the young Witty was at the time. He does’t want that lift taken out of his right heel. It makes him taller than he really is.
Annie you are an honorable individual giving a “hat tip” to Taxi. Wise..and keeps it coming
Don’t hat-tip me ladies: hat-tip the videographer, the people, the internet and most of all, hat-tip the truth.
hat tip to all and especially the truth
that’s the real story here kathleen. i assume it’s the truth this happened @ liberation square in cairo or else AJ would not have reported it. it’s intense but it’s reality and we’re better off hearing it. the msm can suppress it but i think we need to listen.
just giving credit where credit is due. taxi you found it, you broke the news at the site.
again wise
“The Egyptians are welcome to try, but not to complain about the results.”
That was the first comment on this thread, and it really does sum it up. If the
People in Tahrir Square really want millions of dead Arabs, Israel can oblige.
iow, you’ll take the part of the treaty you like and thrash the part where israel doesn’t keep it’s end of the bargain.
it’s called stepping up to the plate and demanding israel meets it’s obligations wrt palestinians. it’s not kowtowing to the continued ethnic cleansing of palestine.
you are probably right, israel will fight, but they cannot genocide the entire middle east. at some point they have to stop the ethnic cleansing. jerusalem is not theirs for the taking.
reasonable minds will prevail. i have faith in that. everyone will not always subordinate to israel, that is an unsustainable solution.
Well….Israel is the only Nuke power in the ME and the current government is ultra nationalistic and Lieberman (former Kach party member) has made veiled threats and repeated rants for a Palestinian Holocaust of Gaza.
Has supported what would result in a genocide of the Egyptian people by calling for the destruction of the Aswan Dam in Egypt.
An ultra nationalistic regime driven by religous fevor may not hesitate to use the Samson option.
No one anywhere will care about Tel Aviv when that happens. Israel’s neighbors have reason to feel threatened.
I wish I could share your optimism. I hope you are right. Hope all can be friends and give up on the sickness of who gets what. It is all really meaningless.
All Israel has to do is abide by UN resolution after the next. Stop building and expanding illegal settlements. Stop.
The pressure to cut off aid to Israel is going to build. Israel has/is and seems to continue being their own worst enemy.
exactly. the world is watching and getting increasingly alarmed. awareness of palestine is experiencing exponential growth. the hundreth monkey awareness level. ken keyes wrote a book by the same name. about social change.
hundreth monkey always wondered why someone has not named a blog after the concept
Well, Israel may try to stop the march of time, and no doubt it will–with something more than water hoses, clubs, and dogs as in 1963 USA; it may even threaten to use nukes, as Golda Meir did to get massive saving support from Uncle Sam. But this is not 1973 either. When the US politicians try to do this again on such a massive scale, or worse, call us to direct war for Israel, Tahrir Square will rise up here too because more and more Americans will not take it anymore; it’s against our best values, we cannot afford it, and the MSM media no longer controls our access to news. Plus, if they have to gear up the Military draft, our women will be directly involved and few males too will answer the call. We remember Curveball too.
former President Jimmy Carter and others have brought up the possibility of Israel using their nukes
link to youtube.com
Zbig Brzezinski Admits Zionist power. Talks straight
“settlements with swimming pools”
link to youtube.com
After massacre on the Mavi Marmara “Israel is a lunatic state”..Norman Finkelstein
link to youtube.com
link to jpost.com
UK feared Israel would use nukes, archives reveal
By JPOST.COM STAFF
12/30/2010 05:15
Cable from 1980 shows British officials’ concern over “Israel’s dangerous mood of isolation and defiance”; Thatcher exasperated by Begin.
Talkbacks (44)
British officials were concerned Israel would use its nuclear weapons in a potential war against its Arab adversaries, secret documents from 1980 released from the British National Archives revealed, according to a Wednesday AFP report.
A diplomatic cable from the UK embassy in Tel Aviv, dated May 4, 1980, warned “the situation in the region is deteriorating and with it Israel’s dangerous mood of isolation and defiance will grow. If they are to be destroyed they will go down fighting this time. They will be ready to use their atomic weapon. Because they cannot sustain a long war, they would have to use it early.”
What does it mean anyway? If it means Egypt will no longer cooperate with Israel to oppress Palestinians, good. If it means war (which I doubt), that’s bad. War with Egypt will mean slaughter for both sides, though probably most of the civilian deaths will be Arab. You can see a couple of the resident Zionists salivating about the prospect of Israel killing Arabs in large numbers.
And for once I agree with yonira–a war is pretty unlikely if we’re talking about Egypt and/or Turkey and if it did happen the US would side with Israel. And Egypt and Turkey know it.
Donald,
if it did happen the US would side with Israel. And Egypt and Turkey know it.
But Africa won’t. And China got to Africa first in the last few years with benevolent loans and no fanfare.
Africa and most of Asia against Israel. Let’s see who comes out victorious.
MRW, in a couple of years you’re gonna start seeing just how unbenevolent China is.
They’re hungry and really don’t give a shit about other people or other places.
Europe would be at worst neutral. They will not side with Israel and the US in another war. Not after Iraq.
Fuster, you’re mistaking strategy for motivation. MRW is describing Chinese strategy, not motivation. Too sophisticated for you though, I fancy.
Who ever claimed that China is benevolent?
oh i think it was MRW upthread saying the loans were benevolent. it’s about chinese strategy and troll word twisting.
Pot
MRW is claiming that China is in Africa with “benevolent loans” when the reality is that China is in Africa exploiting the hell out of it and the loans are hardly benevolent.
compared to drones bombing civilians loans are a benevolent tactic to gain access to resources.
So your saying China took over Paul Wolfowitz’ job at the World Bank?
“They’re hungry and really don’t give a shit about other people or other places.”
They won’t fall for the ‘uniqueness of the Holocaust’ either, and simply say: ‘cry me a river’, and ‘let’s get back to business’
I hear the Israelis are pushing ‘Holocaust education’ in China. Wonder why.
‘Benevolent loans’ meaning not World bank-style loans that ask for a country’s resources as collateral. China has been offering low-interest loans to fix their infrastructure which is in China’s interests for its operations there. Google it.
Hyperbolic statements like this They’re hungry and really don’t give a shit about other people or other places shows history isn’t one of your strong suits, considering that it was China that introduced the idea of a civil society and the whole notion of governance while people were building mud huts and traveling by donkey in Canaan.
The Chinese remember their history as well.
MRW
—to fix their infrastructure which is in China’s interests for its operations there. —-
that’s where our thoughts unite.
but an invocation of Chinese history as a defense for the idea that the present Chinese regime and its state capitalism doesn’t serve
China is indeed an ancient society and the Chinese have a long and varied history. The Chinese living throughout Asia have a reputation as skillful traders who prosper a bit more than do their trading partners.
Unlike Europeans earlier (shall we remember King Ludwig and his crimes in the Congo — the first time the expression “Crimes against humanity” was used in reference to the horrific treatment of the Congolese) the Chinese are building huge infrastructure in Africa. Hospitals, schools, roads., etc.
Heck, they even bring in their own labor and workers and pay for the privilege. The Chinese, Indians (and the Saudis) are also building farms in Africa.
Of course it is self interested motivation. Point is,as MRW said, China got there first!
Merkel: “An attack on Israel is an attack on Germany.”
Harper: “An attack on Israel is an attack on Canada”
Both of them have said so on several occasions.
China has been very intelligent in its handling of foreign affairs, as MRW astutely notes; it’s been sowing just the right fertile seeds while the US louts have been tossing around rusty grenades.
“Unlike Europeans earlier (shall we remember King Ludwig and his crimes in the Congo — the first time the expression “Crimes against humanity” was used in reference to the horrific treatment of the Congolese) the Chinese are building huge infrastructure in Africa. Hospitals, schools, roads., etc.”
Words, words, words. Yes Ludwig was bad, bad, bad. One of his Belgian colonels told the Congolese that cannibalism was barbaric, asking: ‘Why would you eat people who have done you no harm? You could keep your victims alive, enslave them and put them to work and become a source of wealth instead of mere food?’ That’s Western civilization for you, in a nutshell. Check out Spanish colonial history. They forced the man-eating Caribs to eat their testicles, thus becoming guilty of incitement to cannibalism and genocide, and worse than their victims. The Romans didn’t call it ‘crimes against humanity’, but ‘tabula rasa’: Eliminate entire villages and their population, unless they submitted to Roman rule. Kill the native, not the man. So the Chinese appear to take the middle road between the British (British rule on site) and American model (pro-American native dictators/governments) of colonization
isreal’s already ‘obliging’, jose.
Ya don’t think in ten years time there’ll be an official committee formed to hunt down the leaders of zionism? Ya think this kinda thing only happens to Germans?
Ya think zionism can survive for long in a region where it’s utterly and violently rejected and ALWAYS WILL BE by just about MILLIONS OF PEOPLE?
Always will be? Wow, and here I though it was the actions of those meany Jooooos that everyone disliked. But you, Taxi, are telling me that it will always be this way?
Oh No!
I am gonna have to totally rethink my worldview! I thought if only Israel stopped settlements and returned to 1967 borders . . .darn!
Better get a whole mess a nukes to use on Israel’s enemies.
Oh–check.
Mr. Jose (whose name is NOT FROM THE MIDEAST),
Ya think it makes any difference whether israel uses nukes or not?
Israel’s a gonner anyway.
Use nukes and lose your holocaust begging bowl forever more – well you kinda already lost that anyhooz.
Ya think nukes can help stop the world from punishing you for your crimes against humanity.
Man you and israel sound like maniacs waving nukes at blue earth.
Rogue state, terrorist state, state with NO LEGITIMACY.
Now buzz off with your certifiable pathetic threats.
Jose–It’s pronunced “Yossi,” cabbie. And it’s in the Bible.
Khosay, Jowzy, Yossi: So you think I care how many ‘versions’ of your name you can come up with? I bet it’s Yohey in Chinese too!
And just because you allege your name is from the bible gives you NO RIGHT to biblical land!!
Yes yes, we know, you wackos will nuke anyone who tries to set foot in the judenreich. We’ve heard your threats before.
My modest understanding is simply that Egypt will no longer cooperate with Israel against the Palestinian people but on the contrary do all it can to help their brothers … Change we can (this time) believe in …
Witty sees it as a violent threat. He only likes a Jewish democracy over there, while over here, he likes the proposition nation divorced from religion and ethnic extraction. You know, whatever is good for Witty.
With you
the neocons will flip this into …Egyptians have said they want to wipe Israel off the map. Just the way Bill Kristol, Ledeen, Bolton, Terri Gross, Rachel Maddow etc have taken what Ahmadenjad really said and flipped it into “Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map”
Instead of what the Iranian President actually said “He quoted Khomeini that “the occupation regime over Jerusalem should vanish from the page of time.”
From Coles site
link to juancole.com
But the actual quote, which comes from an old speech of Khomeini, does not imply military action, or killing anyone at all. The second reason is that it is just an inexact translation. The phrase is almost metaphysical. He quoted Khomeini that “the occupation regime over Jerusalem should vanish from the page of time.” It is in fact probably a reference to some phrase in a medieval Persian poem. It is not about tanks.
Since Mr. Hitchens wants to splash my private mail all over the internet against my will, as though he were himself an agent of the Bush Administration’s electronic spying on the private conversations of Americans, I’m glad to share the message that encapsulates the results of our deliberations at Gulf2000.
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:34:18 -0400 From: “Cole, Juan”
The speech in Persian is here:
Sorry that I misremembered the exact phrase Ahmadinejad had used. He made an analogy to Khomeini’s determination and success in getting rid of the Shah’s government, which Khomeini had said “must go” (az bain bayad berad). Then Ahmadinejad defined Zionism not as an Arabi-Israeli national struggle but as a Western plot to divide the world of Islam with Israel as the pivot of this plan.
The phrase he then used as I read it is “The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] from the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).”
Ahmadinejad was not making a threat, he was quoting a saying of Khomeini and urging that pro-Palestinian activists in Iran not give up hope– that the occupation of Jerusalem was no more a continued inevitability than had been the hegemony of the Shah’s government.
Whatever this quotation from a decades-old speech of Khomeini may have meant, Ahmadinejad did not say that “Israel must be wiped off the map” with the implication that phrase has of Nazi-style extermination of a people. He said that the occupation regime over Jerusalem must be erased from the page of time.
we’ll see. the Palestinian people haven’t got much in the way of help from their “brothers” up until now.
You know, it really is hideous to watch you curb-stomp the Palestinians and then say, “Ha ha! Look at how pathetic they are!”
You want to know why it’s so hard to help the Palestinians? Look up the Holy Land Foundation.
or you could look up to see who supplies most of the food to Gaza, Chaos.
me, I’m to busy stomping curbs these days, but in earlier times I might have strayed far enough off the beaten path to put a few bucks into those little boxes for the HLF that used to be around my neighborhood.
or you could look up to see who supplies most of the food to Gaza, Chaos.
The US. Israel is the delivery boy.
no, MRW the UN handles the deliveries.
When the IDF isn’t setting fire to their warehouses, at any rate.
The Palestinians would get their own fish if USreal would let them; then they wouldn’t need or want “gifted” USreal fish. They’d love to get off Israel’s “diet.”
The US. Israel is the delivery boy.
Nope, Israel’s the corrupt middle man that takes his cut.
link to haaretz.com
with the Usrael dictators off their backs things are rapidly changing. But Usrael still owns Egypt’s army so who knows
Mubarak wasn’t their brother. The masses are, and now that they are free. You know VERY WELL there is going to be plenty of help.
I know very well, Saleema that the Palestinians living elsewhere in the ME are denied their human rights.
I know very well that more often than not, the Palestinians are used as pawns by everyone, including the people supposed to be leading them.
It ain’t just the Israelis, for sure.
That’s like pointing to the French and how Jews were treated in France before the end of WW2 and using that to exonerate Nazi Germany.
Sickening.
you’re sickening Chaos, you honestly can’t post anymore with out some irrelevant nazi analogy. I mean seriously, you have some major issues w/ that.
a dog’s breakfast of an analogy.
not a glimmer, Chaos, just not a glimmer.
lol. you wanna rub a little humiliation (like feces) in palestinian faces but you can’t take the comparison.
not a glimmer, Chaos, just not a glimmer.
sure dude. why don’t you tell us how awesomely jews were treated in france before the end of WW2 to make your point.
I know very well that more often than not, the Palestinians are used as pawns by everyone, including the people supposed to be leading them.
It ain’t just the Israelis, for sure.
errant equivalent pg 21 hasbara handbook.
you’re being chickenshit annie.
kinda surprising.
It’s ironic that you used the phrase “dog’s breakfast,” considering how Holocaust survivors were treated in Israel post-WW2. Israel bilks Germany for billions in reparations, and that’s what many of them got to live on in the “Jewish nation?” And you call Palestinians pawns?
Gee, I thought Israel was the standard, the “light to the world.” Now I read this?
more likely he is using an analogy involving jews because he doesn’t feel the suffering of none jews matters to you. and the analogy was spot on
agreed.
who’s the chicken
answer it coward. back up your lame assertion. you’re the one running away from the analogy instead of facing it head on.
you’re the one making an errant equivalent. oh everybody abuses palestinians..israelis are no different while they kill innocent teens at funerals and send special forces to kidnap children from their beds rendering them to solitary confinement and pissing on their heads. pff. the cowardly idf with all their weapons and fancy gear and they don’t even have the balls to keep their hands off the little kids on the playgrounds or in the courtrooms. gotta grind down those parents in whatever sadistic manner that suits them.
and you call me a chicken? heads up. the next time i blow you off keep in mind it’s because i have no respect for you. there is no argument you offer that can’t be found right here.
The masses marching to Jerusalem was a metaphor for social justice. The rape of the South African reporter by a crowd yelling ‘Jew, Jew’ was also a metaphor. It had to do with the colonialist ambitions of the Zionist project. Nothing to see there, moving right along.
biorabbi, marching to Jerusalem may be a metaphor in the Egyptian sense but when mentioned by Nasrallah, the man doesn ‘t talk in metaphors. History will show that what is appearing as a sudden awakening to oppression everywhere is rooted in Hizbullah’s army of about 3,000 pushing back Israel’s 30,000 in 2006 with not much other than courage. It will also explain why Israel and especialy the US were and are still adamant about putting out Hizbullah’s lights. They don’t realy care what’s happening to little harmless Lebanon but they are very concerned about the inspiration that Hizbullah has been giving to all oppressed neighbouring Arabs especially the ones in countries that are allied up to their necks with the US. Hope you don’t trip in your moving right along in the dark.
Propagandists know that symbolism is the binding agent of ideology.
Destroy the symbol and you break down the movement oh so very quickly.
Nasrallah remains the most popular leader in the Arab world and what is he really? The son of a fallah (farmer) from the south of Lebanon, steady salt-of-the-earth people who grow their own wheat in their small gardens, a people who still bake their own bread.
In other words, a poor but self-reliant people, down-trodden but independent, conservative yet firey – a modest people who perceive the concepts of ‘dignity’ and ‘truth’ as holy duties to be practiced on a daily basis.
A people who take their personal freedom very seriously and actually physically act towards continuing this freedom. Nasrallah leads this empowered minority with wit, wisdom and a steadfast message to the rest of the Arab people: Oppose injustice continuously, vigilantly, cleverly, and you will soon enough be free.
Walid, I agree with you that we cannot underestimate the influence of Hizbollah and it’s victories against israel on what is occurring today on Liberation Squares all over the Arab world.
Kudos to those hazel-eyed and honorable people of south Lebanon who against all odds, fought hard, paid with the blood of their elderly and their youth, to guarantee that their grandchildren would live in honor and freedom.
Now THAT’S what a call a generous generational sacrifice in the name of the future of your lineage and nation.
I do not understand – is this supposed to be a good thing? For the Egyptian people to support the Palestinian people is not the same thing as marching to liberate Jerusalem.
jerusalem is being colonized. palestinians are being ethnically cleansed from jerusalem. how can anyone support palestinians without supporting the liberation of jerusalem?
Then you don’t understand anything about the Arabs, Reb.
Their dignity and pride is connected to the abuse that jerusalem has seen under the hands of the colonialist zionists.
My irony failed to come across. Clearly I should have placed “liberating Jerusalem”, in quotes.
I was lazy when I posed this query and my irony failed to come across. Clearly I should have placed “liberating Jerusalem”, in quotes. The liberation of Jerusalem from Zionist control, is not the same thing as Islamic liberation of Jerusalem from Jewish dominion. For some Arabs (some religious Muslims), it may be the same thing. For others, not so much (seculars of all religions, and most Arab Christians). Whatever the immense power of religion in many a liberation movement, the prominent takeover of religious rhetoric creeps me out, sorry. Without exception.
Annie – totally agree, from a secular point of view.
Taxi – such assumptions about your opponent in an argument – they do not serve you as well as you think.
Hey Reb,
What about YOUR ASSUMPTIONS about your opponent snooty?
Geez Taxi. Ok, I’ll go there. Your assumption that I know nothing about “the Arabs” is a bit funny since I lived and worked with Palestinian organizations for five years.
You lived (used to live) with Palestinians for FIVE YEARS and you still haven’t figured it out?
Amazing.
To understand is not to agree. I understand that many Americans often think that they can “bring” “democracy” to the world by force, for example. I understand that when most Israelis use the words “peace”, and “security”, they mean only for themselves. I also understand that the word “martyr” is often misunderstood, that “martyrs by the millions” is a trope, as one commenter noted above. Doesn’t mean I have to like the choice of language.
Does what I think really matter? Not so much.
Jerusalem is the home to three of the worlds largest religions. I wonder given the last 60 years if Palestinians (who have been treated severely) if they could would roll back to the original agreement that Jerusalem would be independent and a home for all 3 religions.
Actually, Antioch has better claim to be the home of Christianity. Christianity was Paul’s invention, and Antioch was his base.
I read that the 20% Christian element is now at 1%; they’ve fled under Israeli oppression. I guess the Christian Zionists don’t care because that fits in with their end times scenario?
Christians are leaving the Middle East and I/P for more reasons than one, saith the Pope….
link to haaretz.com
Jerusalem is as Holy to the Muslims as it is Christians and Jews, isn’t it?
of course
how exactly do you measure degrees of holiness for places?
Jerusalem by some measures is no better than third for Muslims, but tops the charts for the two older religions.
So why do Israelis ethnically cleanse Christians along with the Muslims?
And why don’t US Christians care about Arab Christians?
Because they aren’t the right kind of Christians.
Ask Huckabee.
yes, Jerusalem is as holy to Muslims, but it has never been the capital city of any Muslim (or Christian, for that matter) country. Only Jews, as ancient Hebrews or modern Israelis, claim Jerusalem as their capital, and theirs alone.
Antidote,
Neither were Medina or Mecca. The three sacred cities never became Islamic capitals. Those were reserved for places like Baghdad, Constantinople, Damascus, Cordoba, etc.
The UN agreements from the very beginning recognized the religiously international character of Jerusalem.
And as for their ancient capital. Well, not according to Israeli archeologists….but it’s now part of the convenient settler spin no matter what the archeology shows.
their digging project for david’s throne ? they’ve yet to find evidence for conformation. they asked on 60 minutes. still they keep digging. they’re trying to turn the place into a disney holyland tourist trap. it’s disgusting.
thanks, MRW, I don’t see any justification for claiming Jerusalem as belonging to the Jews either
Can I have it, then? I promise I’ll look after it.
um try the kingdom of jerusalem
“it has never been the capital city of any Muslim (or Christian, for that matter) country.”
You might wanna read up on this medieval crusader state… hm… what was it called again? Oh right: The Kingdom of Jerusalem. Now what might the capital city of that country have been…
Al-Quds or Baitul-Maqdis
Juan Cole as always doing a great job informing (except when it comes to criticizing Jon Stewarts beating the Iran war drum while Stewart carries water for the I lobby)
Cole refuses to criticize Stewart’s clear biases…odd.
link to juancole.com
and Cole also says that Ahmadinejad is a despicable bigot, but I’m sure you find that odd as well….all bias must be denounced except for the ones that you refuse to notice.
nice divert/strawman dude. you’re a pro fus
hey, annie, you’ve got 100+ comments before I replied to Kathleen’s mention of Cole.
you wander off-topic every now and then yourself. allow us poor oppressed minority commenters a little freedom.
allow us poor oppressed minority commenters a little freedom
lol! sure thing their fus. as soon as that little criminal state you represents allows the poor and oppressed people is rules over with it’s apartheid gov a little freedom.
Nothing about you fuster , not even that unsightly picture of you, spells out “oppressed minority”.
But of course ALL zionists ALWAYS reach for that violin everytime they run out of excuses and justifications for their land theft, ethnic cleansing and murder.
I don’t represent anything beyond my poor oppressed green self, annie.
I do identify with the US of A, though.
The last time Zionist immigrants were given “a little freedom,” five hundred villages were wiped off the face of the Earth, with you guys shooting any man, woman or child returning to the scene of the atrocity.
I don’t represent anything beyond my poor oppressed green self, annie.
of course you don’t mr frog. i’m so looking forward to the paid brigade identifying themselves. and by all means explain to me why the goi (mfa) and the israel project would not target this site?
smelling salts taxi! or does salt make frogs shrivel like slugs? frogs are fresh water only aren’t they or do pollywogs also thrive in salt water?
hmm, let’s contemplate on that instead of ethnic cleansing. oh wait..i hear some more ribbiting..gotta go.
I’m proud of my land theft, Taxi. Got a nice big old house on it, too, more’n a 100 years old.
Stole it from a couple of indigenous people here who had come to the US from Italy and wanted to retire to Florida.
I woulda genocided them I guess if I had to, but instead I just broadcast weather reports pointing that it was always 30 degrees warmer down there and that heating oil for this big old barn was never going to get any less expensive.
Yawn. Yes fusty we know you’re proud of your crimes.
Ya think anything you say’s gonna rile me?
Pathetic.
Hahha. The “poor oppressed minority” voice here is the all-pervasive rich majority AIPAC-MSM voice and voice too in Congress & WH. Let’s keep this in real perspective, fuster, faster, fuster.
Or applies the same criticism to Israel, Netanyahu, illegal settlers etc as fus applies to others
You just really want to do to Iran what you got us to do to Iraq, don’t you?
I will most assuredly rejoice when the Iranian regime is wiped from the page.
However, since I was entirely responsible for getting to US to lie to the world and invade Iraq and get untold thousands of people killed, I’ve decided to relax a bit and continue to have my minions broadcast the truth about Iran until the people of Iran shake off the neanderthals occupying Tehran.
You have the same penchant for identifying “brown people” as sub-human as a particular German fellow I read about.
Why single out “a particular German fellow”, Chaos? Plenty of British, French and American fellows before, during and after Hitler held the same view. In fact, Hitler was influenced by them, not the other way around.
Who has singled out “brown people” as sub-human, Chaos?
OK, fuster, “neanderthals.” Cave men/women.
Citizen, see my comment 89. I was not labeling “brown people”
it’s a new day. how bout we drop this diversionary subject now.
thanks
annie, you and your pal made a big deal out of this.
Please forgive me if I’m not reacting calmly to being called a racist. That’s a pretty despicable thing to be in my book and that’s the hook you put me on.
Let me off that hook and I’ll very happily and gratefully drop it.
Yes he has called the Iranian President out on inflammatory things that he has said. Just went looking. Cole has called out the neocons in congress and in the US medias lies as well as Netanyahu and Ahmadenejads unnecessary and inflammotory rhetoric
good for you, Kathleen. you do see that.
I bow.
I read Cole’s criticisms of Ahmadinejad long ago. Cole is not lopsided.
nice when we find something on which to agree.
And Ahmadinejad never said “Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map” no matter how many times NPR’s Terri Gross, Scott Simon, MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow, Micheal Ledeen, Reuel Marc Gerecht, Bolton, Joe Scarborough, Andrea Mitchell, Cheney and others keep repeating that lie
we’ve been through that one, Kathleen. The Cole translation of Mahmoud’s remarks are quite sufficiently damning.
“We’ve been through that one” — That would be the part where it was exposed that translations of Ahmedinejad as calling for a second Holocaust were categorically fraudulent?
Would it? That wasn’t what I think that Mr A said, but if you think he called for a Holocaust at least be consistent enough to honor the little creep by not calling it a second one. He still hasn’t accepted that there was a first one, Chaos.
DUMB. ASS.
There isn’t any point about being polite with this Nakba-denying harpy.
Your logic is so warped Chaos. Mr. A questions the Holocaust and fuster mentions this. And that makes Fuster a Nakba-denier?
Your man David Duke actually was at the Holocaust denial conference Chaos, friends like these huh?
link to foxnews.com
Fox News! Found those WMDs in Iraq, yet, yonira?
For reference:
link to arbeiterfotografie.com
The site you linked makes a big deal about others getting words wrong–and they headline it is thusly:
“Does Iran’s Predident deny the Holocaust?”
forgive me for not reading any further.
Except that’s not the headline at all. It is:
“DOES IRAN’S PRESIDENT WANT ISRAEL WIPED OFF THE MAP AND DOES HE DENY THE HOLOCAUST?”
The typo you refers to occurs in a subheading almost halfway through the article. How *do* get through they day if a single typo in an article is so distressing you can’t continue reading? It’s even a German language website!
too difficult for you jose
A German language website? I suppose a lot of what you guys say sounds better in the original German.
We forgive you Jose. If you’re anything like Witty, then reading more than a headline is probably a challenge for you anyway. Witty much prefers his talking points to be spoon fed to him rather than doing his own research.
I can’t tell the difference between German and Hebrew.
For instance the Hebrew ‘Nakhon’ sounds German to me.
Yes, because everyone who speaks German is a NAZI! Where does that place Yiddish speakers, incidentally, Yossi?
A German language website?
here it is in the nyt
I remember reading it–thanks for the reminder. In truth though, would you, as a citizen of Israel, find his statement threatening?
Only if Israel had no options. Of course, it does have options, namely the Arab Peace Initiative. Iran has said that they would accept it if it was agreed to by all parties.
The only party that does not accept it is……………….Israel.
I would remind you where most of the Yiddish speakers were placed, Chaos, but for some reason known only to the Lords of the Mond, it’s a grave secret.
Irrelevant! The point is, you and your cadre are lying about Ahmedinejad being openly genocidal and denying the Holocaust. You even say you read it and you lied until we pointed it out! And as far as what Israel finds threatening, Netanyahu was bellicose about Obama being even slightly permissive of the demonstrations against Mubarak.
well let’s look at what he says:
i think he is giving an example of “the regime occupying iran that vanished from the page of time”.
let’s look at more of it.
what i see here is him comparing the iranian regime at that time to israel’s zionist regime today (both corrupt). also he compares the people who say “the removal of the regime was not possible” meaning the removal of the zionist regime is not possible, he calls those people weak for they can see only what lies in front of them and cannot believe it will ever be different.
i think he fancy’s himself a visionary and he’s giving an example. no, i do not think it is a threatening statement. no where in his comparison does ellude to invading israel or even being the cause of the fall of the apartheid regime.
so again i think he is referring to a people removing their own leader (regime) tho i would beg to differ w/him here. i think the US removed him. either way iran didn’t (although we have sort of handed iraq to iran, but that’s not something you can blame on iran. i think iraq started the war w/iran.
i think ‘[Israel]‘ was inserted by the nyt. i think he was speaking of the ‘ the occupying regime’. i think the original sentence was ‘This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world.’ i also think when he said ‘ Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor’ the word ‘target’ should be taken in the same context he used before for the iman before, iow ‘identifying’ or ‘predicting’. and besides, isn’t this the translation that is contested, about this alleged ‘wiped off the map”?
yes, if you support the zionist regime i can see how you might be threatened by this in the same way mubarak was threatened by the revolution. but i don’t think he means iran is going to invade israel.
either zionism is going to transform into some version of zionism we’ve yet to ever witness, or the zionist regime is going to vanish from the pages of time. i think that is inevitable because permanent apartheid and oppression is unsustainable.
Chaos you asshat, please funkin try to print out where i said that he called for genocide…. I said just the flamin opposite.
You are an idjit.
And he doesn’t deny the Holocaust ,,,, he denies that he has enough evidence one way or the other.
You reread the stuff, and try to stop spreading your lame confusion.
But I am sure you can tell the difference between Arabic and Hebrew can’t you Taxi?
here, annie, is Juan Cole taking a look at some of what Ahmadinejad has to say ….
link to juancole.com
—————
here’s Cole in an interview with Amy Goodman……
attn Chaos…..
JUAN COLE: Yes, Ahmadinejad is a Holocaust denier.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364×2222500
He means that Iran will incrementally seek to expedite the elimination of Israel from the map of the world. (At least you included the translation that DID state “wipe off the map”).
That includes funding, arming, training semi-proxy and proxy armies on Israel’s borders, inciting maximalist interpretations of anti-colonialism (an ideology of progressive intent, but which often ends fascistic, especially when anti-colonialism oriented to the past, ends up superceding present democracy.)
So on one hand I have yonira bashing me that I mention the Holocaust too much, and now I have fuster needling me that I haven’t mentioned it enough.
Seriously now.
Actually, Modern Standard Hebrew borrowed a lot from Arabic, since as a dead and mostly ceremonial language — like Latin — it hadn’t accommodated any sort of modern evolution.
In fact, Modern Standard Hebrew even drops traditional Semitic phonemes that aren’t present in Yiddish or German, specifically to make it easier to learn.
Or is that too much factual information for you, yonira?
So? As it happens I think Juan Cole is wrong about that.
What do you think this is, the Republican Party? I’m not going to bow down and prostrate myself just because you manage to staple a name I respect to your regurgitation, fuster. I respect Juan Cole’s opinion about a lot of things — almost everything, really — but we don’t goose step in lockstep on this end of the political spectrum.
Juan Cole also said this:
I am not saying that Ahmadinejad is genocidal.
“JUAN COLE: Yes, Ahmadinejad is a Holocaust denier.”
who gives a damn?
How does that in any way mitigate the crimes of the Zionists – how does it excuse the genocide they have continued to this day?
How does that change the fact that you zionists have been inventing lies about Iran nuke-programs for years?
If you couldn’t pin that on him you’d just try to invent some other bullshit to pin on him – that’s what Zionists do all the time – Long before he came on the scene Israel was threatening Iran, so it doesn’t matter one way or the other what he says about the big H, because you would still be trying to justify attacking Iran anyway
fuster, cole’s opinions are cole’s opinions and not a replacement for ahmadinejad’s text. he definitely sounds like an anti semite but i don’t read, in that slice of ahmadinejad’s text that he denied the holocaust took place. perhaps you have some other text.
note in the first segment how he places all the blame by ‘some governments and their people’ for anti semitism on some of the jews and none of the people. in the last segment he spreads the blame around a little but still not blaming the general populace at all. so i wouldn’t argue he not an anti semite. i’m not going to argue he’s a not a holocaust denier either because i’m not familiar enough with his speeches. but i will argue this particular quote doesn’t prove he is.
to me a holocaust denier is someone who denies the holocaust existed and that millions of jews didn’t die. they did.
horse laugh and a half, annie.
if you keep both of them closed real tight and place your hands over your eyes, it’ll all go away.
otherwise, do yourself a favor and remember that Cole went all-out for Ahmadinejad when people were going nuts saying that he actually said directly genocidal stuff.
Cole is fair and not prone to interpreting harshly against the Iranians.
annie, I expect you to stick to your convictions, but I don’t see you as really having a closed mind.
you can find more in Cole’s blog if you want to look for it.
fuster,
Ahmadi doesn’t deny: he questions the numbers game and asks for independent investigations into the findings, for the purposes of confirmation of the facts of the holocaust that so far only euro jews have been allowed to assemble and present.
I took 4 years of Modern Hebrew Chaos, I am not sure where you copied and pasted your shit from but, like always, it is far off.
Modern Hebrew(Hebrew used in Israel) is based on Sephardic pronunciation. Because of it’s sephardic origin of course it uses some Arabic words.
If you would have added that Modern Hebrew is based on the Khazarian language your diatribe of nonsense would be complete.
Oh whatever. Fuster is just putting up straw men again, and trying to maintain Zionist media orthodoxy. So now we’re arguing about Ahmedinejad when this article is about Egypt. This is all just laying a groundwork for Israel making hostile moves toward Iran.
fuster, cole didn’t go ‘all out’ for ahmadinejad , he just translated his words from farsi. that said this has nothing to do w/cole. it has to do w/ahmadinejad. if you have evidence he denies the holocaust just present it. i already told you ‘i’m not going to argue he’s a not a holocaust denier … because i’m not familiar enough with his speeches. but i will argue this particular quote doesn’t prove he is.”
so just cough it up already. does ahmadinejad ever deny the holocaust or not? certainly he’s well documented so i’m sure if you want to find it you will.
Yes, yes, yonira. We all know you had a crash course in “How to Be a Jew!” care of the Israeli MFA half a decade ago. And I’m sure those mere five years of “Jewishness” have been so very enlightening to your opportunism — oh, I mean, “getting in touch with your spiritual heritage.”
Pro Palestine Pro Israel (internationally recognized borders) Pro Peace.
later
Praying for the protesters…peaceful peaceful
Wow, who’s in charge of the comment’s section today? It feels like 6th grade with a substitute teacher here in here.
True. Ignorant comments by toads should not be engaged. Look what happens.
Being silent is only going to be tacit complicity. The trolls aren’t going to just disappear because we don’t engage them. Their intent is to insert filthy lies between our words, in the hopes that people who don’t know better will swallow the crap sandwich.
Being silent is only going to be tacit complicity. The trolls aren’t going to just disappear because we don’t engage them.
no it is not ‘tacit complicity’. they will not disappear, in this you are correct. but engaging them serves to dominate the thread. it cause long discussions over crap. this is what they do @ dkos. it’s dumb.
The Israeli government has just launched a fresh campaign to enlist
new hasbarabots in the USA & Europe.
Chaos, many would consider the guy who feels the need to bring up the Holocaust in all of his posts is also trolling.
I think that Ellen and annie have it right.
Israel has been given so many chances to abide by the law in the past 60 years. I look forward to the liberation of the Palestinian People and their territories by every means possible . Enough is enough!
I’ll second your “by every means possible”.
Bingo
Kathleen, not sure if you realize what you are saying, but you are condoning genocide. This is sickening, when was it ok to advocate genocide on MW?
Taxi, have fun watching the bloodbath from LA, people like you make my sick you are more than willing to see millions die on Al-Jazeera.
Not as sick as the fact that you were best buds in college with militant ex-US turncoats who decided to join a foreign military so that they could set fire to UN schools and strip search Palestinian schoolgirls.
Or is their service with the IDF over, and now they’ve switched to the “civilian” lifestyle of running people down with cars and firing handguns into villages from hilltop condos?
There ain’t gonna a million dead yonira unless israel decides it’s gonna be so.
I predict israel, being the giant ruthless robot dictator of the region, will be going the way of Mubarak, Ghaddafi et all yes with far more blood but a heck of a lot faster – that country is full of soft noses who’re so twisted already with unhinged paranoia, boy they’re afraid of their own shadows and they were stupid enough to think that living in a house of cards protected by big guns makes for a real and enduring nation.
yonira you softie, there’s ALREADY a slow-drip BLOODBATH going on in the occupied territories and Gaza – so you tuning in to the charming idf channel then you trolling hypocrite?
DGB: Go away you pathetic little anti-semite: killing Palestinian and Lebanese and Syrian semites right in the heart of their homeland to steal their land and resources IS anti-semiticism and you support this! You realize the ancestors of the Arabs you’re killing used to be jewish, right?!!!
Which part of the UNIVERSAL DOCTRINE that says that ‘an occupied people have the inalienable right to defend themselves BY ALL/ANY means possible’ do you think is “anti-semitic” you paranoid puppet?!!
I agree with you. I would prefer a peaceful liberation but should it be required other means could and should be used. their is never an iexcuse to let crimes go unpunished and unrectified.
The timing of this could not be more appropriate.
Over at Huffington Post, Danny Ayalon has witten a typical diatribe trying to dssavow that the Egyptian revolt had anything to do with the I/P conflict.
It brought a wmile to my face.
link to huffingtonpost.com
Let them be blindsided.
Their blindfold’s getting bigger; AH just sold HP to AOL; the partners see the new thing for business to capitalize on is content, rather than form, process, platform, etc. If memory serves, AH invested a million and is getting 13 million from AOL.
I think the shout of the crowd is not a good thing, but a bad thing. But then again, “we will free Jerusalem with our million martyrs” is more appropriate as a crowd chant than, “the changes coming to the Middle East will require a new approach by all”.
The “war chant” in this comments section is not a good thing either. Some people have already come out on record for their preference to turn back the hands of history with force. Anyone who recognizes injustice recognizes the anger that injustice incites. But anyone who recognizes human nature should recognize that war chants are “impure”.
A large percentage of the Jewish people live in Israel. This fact happened with terrible consequences to the Palestinians, a continuing situation.
You: “I favor x mode of change, and he over there proposes y mode of change, what mode of change do you propose?”
I have no counter proposal.
…We had a course of action to deal with illegal population transfers when Nazi Germany committed them. Oh, have the rules changed since the end of WW2?
How about those millions of ethnic Germans that were forcefully transferred to the West during the early years following WW2?
they weren’t jewish, so of course they don’t matter
Yeah, try telling us that when your dear old Aunt Maude isn’t up on the hilltop near Sderot, cheering and clapping as another hospital explodes.
And hissing, “sharmoota, sharmooo-ta.”
you talking about that old The Knack song “My Sharmuta”?
No fusty the song goes: yourmabemysharmoota.
I guess not everything about Tahrir is a liberation. Comments, ANNIE?
I know this is a distraction.
link to nytimes.com
Reporting While Female
Last week, CBS News said that its reporter Lara Logan was assaulted by a crowd of men in Cairo. CBS News did not detail the circumstances, but the network’s statement — that she had suffered a “brutal and sustained sexual assault” — said enough.
link to cbsnews.com
On Friday, Feb. 11, the day Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak stepped down, CBS chief foreign correspondent Lara Logan was covering the jubilation in Tahrir Square for a “60 Minutes” story when she and her team and their security were surrounded by a dangerous element amidst the celebration. It was a mob of more than 200 people whipped into frenzy.
In the crush of the mob, she was separated from her crew. She was surrounded and suffered a brutal and sustained sexual assault and beating before being saved by a group of women and an estimated 20 Egyptian soldiers. She reconnected with the CBS team, returned to her hotel and returned to the United States on the first flight the next morning. She is currently home recovering.
There are racists who dismiss the significance of the Egyptian revolution because a mob of Egyptian men brutally assaulted Lara Logan, who was then rescued by Egyptian women with some Egyptian soldiers. So what is your point?
Mob violence can happen anywhere and mobs of men assault women in other places besides Egypt.
God damn, Witty, but are you a hideous racist troll. You actually aped eee and hophmi?!
Seriously? Witty? This is the same exploitative tactic they used! You just spent this woman’s rape as if it were political capital!
I guess I had you pegged on your male chauvanism too.
Oh, and as a distraction from your distraction, here’s a link to an HRW report on how the Palestinian Authority assaults peaceful protestors demonstrating in favor of Egyptian democracy. There was a sexual assault against one of the demonstrators–
link
This is a crime and my prayers are with Lara Logan.
Hey Richard Witty what do you feel about the rapes that are committed in the U.S. military that often go unpunished and our MSM basically ignores. Some of those sexually assaulted in our military have been forced to serve right along their attackers. Hear anyone in our MSM focused on this?
If these sexual assaults in our own military that often go unpunished received a fraction of the media attention that Lara Logan’s assault is receiving we might witness some justice and change in our military.
What happened to Logan is appaling, but in a sea of 2 million highly emotional and passinate people, it is not statistically unuusl for one secual assault to take place – especialy given that a beatiful blonde woman like Logan would be even more exotic.
1 in 3 women in the US military are raped. 1 in 5 women have been secual abused throughout their lives.
While Witty is desperate to explaoit this to demonize Arabs, it does need to be put in context.
Richard, watch the film “The Accused” with Jodie Foster. This, I believe will give you a much more likely explanation about the dynamic of what happened to Lara Logan.
And, yes, bringing attack on Lara Logan to derail the discussion shows me that you are using her, and her distress, to achieve your own objectives. (better than using her to offload sexual frustration, but still using her to score points).
No Eva, the discussion here will not be derailed by noting that the Egyptian people have failings and that the people there are as prone to criminality as people anywhere else.
And mentioning an instance of vile criminality in a discussion where people are considering the character and ambitions of the crowd in Cairo is germane, even if it’s not good news.
So now every Egyptian man, woman and child needs to be blamed for Lara Logan’s rape? Or is it just that you still haven’t forgiven the Arabs for not jumping into the sea to make way for a “Jewish state.”
Raaaaacist.
Cairo is actually a hot bed for sexual harassment.
link to npr.org
Lora Logan should have gave the following website a look before she decided where to report from:
link to harassmap.org
Chaos, there is a Jewish state, a fledgling state btw.
Israel and the sex-slave trade…. ehm… israel and human oragan trafficking….
Israel and Egypt are both Tier 2 countries in terms of trafficking:
link to state.gov
And another article about the organ trade in Egypt:
Egypt is one of a half dozen countries identified by the World Health Organization as organ-trafficking hot spots. Under international pressure, other trouble spots like China, Pakistan and the Philippines have outlawed organ sales and barred foreigners from undergoing transplants to stop “transplant tourism.”
link to msnbc.msn.com
Taxi, none of those things count. Israel invented the cherry tomato (or was it hummus?) and we all know that technological competence confers moral legitimacy, regardless of any other considerations.
Why exactly do we have to be subjected over and over again, endlessly, to yonira trumpeting how much he hates Arabs? This is almost as bad as when I was fending off his homophobic slurs. Seham, Walid, Olive? If Phil isn’t going to apologize for this hot mess you’re subjected to, I will. Yonira is an embarrassment to white people worldwide.
That’s far from convincing Yonira.
So the so called only democracy in the ME is as bad as a 2nd world, poverty riddled country in terms of human trafficking. That speaks well of Israel doesn’t it?
Your msnbc article in interesting for the fact that it fails to mention which are the top offenders for organ-trafficking. It turns out that Moldova (aka Liebermna’s real home) is number one with Brazil and India behind them.
Most interesting though is that Israel is part fo the Modovan organ-trafficking industry.
Wow, you guys must seriousy have to hold your noses being associated with such macabre practices.
I am not dismissing the importance of the Egyptian popular revolution (though the invocation of a million martyrs marching on Jerusalem and the rationalization that that is humane chills me).
And, if you respectfully read my post, my first sentence was that I acknowledge that this is a distraction.
Time to represent, rather than misrepresent.
And, if you respectfully read my post, my first sentence was that I acknowledge that this is a distraction.
Acknowledging what you are doing does not mean that you are absolved of doing it, nor does it mean that others here can’t criticize you for doing it.
Time to represent, rather than misrepresent.
Again, Richard, if you would only take your criticisms seriously as subconscious self-criticisms you might make some progress towards self understanding. You were the one misrepresenting what Eva said, not the other way around.
“take your criticisms seriously as subconscious self-criticisms you might make some progress towards self understanding.”
Heh. I hadn’t thought of it quite that way, though I’ve suspected his subconscious understands that his liberal values are in conflict with his romanticized view of Zionism. He can write clearly when the facts really do support a point he wants to make–he lapses into word salad or weird tangential BS when he is making a point that would be clearly illiberal if he made it clearly. That suggests there’s something inside the man that knows he’s wrong.
Though now and then (with incresing frequency I might add), he has allowed his fascist, pro Likud sentiments surface, and posted some real clangers on this forum. Eljay has exploited these beautifully.
helena cobban wrote a post about this event. i rec.
Good rationalization, Annie, Helena.
Maybe thats what they meant. Maybe thats what you were gleeful and rude about.
I doubt that they meant “a million suicide-bombers”. That would be out of character of the revolution.
And, if only a thousandth of the million martyrs meant it in terms of actually willing to die, eager to die, eager to take others along?
Or, only a ten-thousandth. (100 bombers). Or, only a hundred thousandth (10 bombers).
What if only ONE were inspired by your “permission” to do so?
So careless are you with bombs and toxicity.
Richard,
You can’t go around positing that chant as a call for suicide bombing.
That’s every bit as unwarranted as saying that the chanting must be understand as being meant by all there as non-violent.
The chanting is …chanting and can be fairly understood to express disapproval of Israel’s actions in the governance of Jerusalem.
And it’s pretty hard to disagree with that disapproval.
Since the Tunisian and subsequent Egyptian revolutions, the war-monger by the anti-Israel group as multiplied. This is scary because most of these people cheer leading for war live 1/2 world away.
How is cheer-leading for war any better than the guy who sends out the suicide bomber while he sits in the comfort of his own home?
How is occupying Arab land not ‘scary’ for Arabs yonira?
How is it not ALREADY AN ACT OF WAR?!
Don’t even try and pretend you’re a peace activist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How is it not ALREADY AN ACT OF WAR?!
How? because it’s a consequence of war.
So are you comparing 90% of Israelis (who cheered during Cast Lead) with suicide bombers Yoni?
I wouldn’t have put it that way myself, since you bring it up….
Yes I knew that Taxi,
Some names are just unfiortnate that way. ;-)
Israel started the evil.
Nakba fucking much smartypants?
Taxi, get over it seriously, it was 60 years ago. You call for the ridding of Jews from Palestine by any means necessary, fine. Put your money where your mouth is, send some money to al-qaeda or to Hamas or Hezbollah. Quit your war-mongering shit, or do something about it.
Great deflection Shingo, i’d expect nothing more from a person with zero ability to create an original thought.
Let’s ALL forget about the holocaust too why don’t we then yonira eh – it’s been frigging how many years now?! Huh? What?! I can’t hear you please say it LOUDER how many years?!
And how about we ALL forget what the alleged god told the alleged jews some TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO TOO! Now THAT one is sure way way way way overdue for dumping!
Yonira you’re a cheap propagandist on an average day and it’s clear you aim to confuse and muddle the BIG difference between a call for justice and warmongering.
NOW FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME ASSHOLE: I HAVE NEVER CALLED FOR THE RIDDING OF ‘JEWS’ – ONLY ZIONISM YOU CREEPY SOB!!@!
Note to Phil & Adam: If you guys keep allowing the same incessant and repetitive ugly slander by couch-potato zionists like yonira, also especially zionists with blood on their hands like eee, hand-on-heart I’ll be seriously considering checking out of mondo for good.
These guys can never carry a serious debate, they’re not here for the ‘war of ideas’ but for slander and personal attacks on supporters of the Palestinian cause.
How are we supposed to interpret “by any means necessary” Taxi? You are the biggest war-monger on this blog, don’t guy whine to Phil and Adam about it when someone calls you out.
Kalithea:
Israel has been given so many chances to abide by the law in the past 60 years. I look forward to the liberation of the Palestinian People and their territories by every means possible . Enough is enough!
link to mondoweiss.net
Taxi:
I’ll second your “by every means possible”.
link to mondoweiss.net
How do you rid an ideology “by any means necessary” if you don’t rid the believers of that ideology?
Yonira, the Holocaust happened more than sixty years go which is longer than you’ve been Jewish (which isn’t saying much, since that has been less than a decade.)
We’re supposed to believe that the rest of the non-Jewish world is still supposed to atone for the Holocaust, yet an ongoing war on Arabs to divest them of their property and herd them behind concrete walls topped with razorwire and we’re supposed to “get over it?”
You Zionists all talk about the existence of the “Jewish state” “by any means necessary.”
“NOW FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME ASSHOLE: I HAVE NEVER CALLED FOR THE RIDDING OF ‘JEWS’ – ONLY ZIONISM YOU CREEPY SOB!!@!”
I share Taxi anger at the slime Yonira. It certainly must be unacceptable to let pass slander so low! Enough is enough.
>> What if only ONE were inspired by your “permission” to do so?
…lectures the man who said “I cannot consistently say that ‘ethnic cleansing is never necessary’.”
To anyone looking to be “inspired by your permission” to commit ethnic cleansing, the message is crystal clear.
—What is bellicose about saying you’re going to pray at your holy sites in Jerusalem, and you’re prepared a die as a martyr if necessary to get there?—-
annie asked naively…
Two million Americans chanted that they were going to join the marchers in Tehran at the next demonstration and nothing short of death could stop them.
Apologists for the American chanters said that they expected that there would be no violence and that they would simply cross Iran’s border and traverse the country into Tehran and once there would march, say a few prayers, and expire from happiness, going directly to heaven.
Two million Americans chanted…
Quite a triumph of a stupid analogy. I suppose I missed the part where Americans of any religious persuasion consider Tehran a holy city. Maybe you should post less frequently and with more import and wisdom, if that’s possible. You’re getting to sound as reflexive as hophmi.
And you might want to improve your reading comprehension along the way. Your quoted statement was from Helena Cobhan, not annie.
tree—And you might want to improve your reading comprehension along the way. Your quoted statement was from Helena Cobhan, not annie.—
you’re quite right. my error, and my thanks for the correction.
Absolutely nothing on any of the MSM Sunday morning programs about these chants…not a whisper.
Although CNN’s Candy (or is it Kathy) Crowley allowed Donald Rumsfeld to keep spinning the false pre war intelligence. She did not ask him one challenging question…allowing this warmongers and others to still blame everyone else…the CIA, intelligence outlets, Curveball.
Crowley did not ask one thing about the NIGER DOCUMENTS. Who, what,where, when, why? Not a thing. Although we all ready know the WHY. The Bush administration needed more false intelligence to fix around their agenda.
Did I miss it has someone been held accountable for the NIGER DOCUMENTS that El Baradei came out in early March of 2003 and told the world they were forgeries and poorly done forgeries
How do people like Crowley keep their jobs as journalist? Oh I know kiss ass, and don’t ask any tough questions
link to cnn.com
Me I just love it that the inconsequential Rumsfeld published his stupid war memoir the week that Mubarak fell and took the oxygen out of his horrid PR team.
Why should we read the Book of Lies when we can see the TRUTH on youtube?!
Funny the same thing happened with the “palestine papers”
Can you translate that from Troll for the rest of us, yonira? Like you keep saying about Ben-Gurion quotes, “context matters” and there is no apparent context for that comment here.
It’s a zionist knee-jerk reaction, chaos – you know: in the face of every truth, say something dumb then quickly get outa dodge.
Another explanation is that yonira was born an asshole and just can’t help himself.
Is Christian pride in the concept of martyrdom so respectful that this is now a term that has no negative connotations? The Jewish Zionists must stop using religious terms, but the Arab Muslims’ religious terminology is holy.
Because you agree with their political goals therefore the cheerleaders and their Friday afternoon chants are now words of appropriate and legalistic assertions of international law. I doubt it.
youtube says the link has gotten 29,488 viewings now. that didn’t take long.