Flotilla activists undergo nonviolence training (Israel fears mass nonviolent protest above all)

Israel/Palestine
on 53 Comments

From Haaretz:

“A non-violent protest of 4,000 people or more, even if they only march to a checkpoint or a settlement, and especially if the Palestinian police does not deter them, will be unstoppable,” one IDF officer claims. “Such a great number of determined people cannot be stopped by tear gas and rubber bullets.”

Speaking of the import of nonviolence, I believe the Flotilla activists are bearing in the mind the lessons learned in the Mavi Marmara incident. It seems that they are. Check out the video:

Nonviolence training from Terje Carlsson & Bo Harringer on Vimeo.

About Matthew Taylor

Matthew A. Taylor is co-founder of PeacePower magazine, and author of "The Road to Nonviolent Coexistence in Palestine/Israel," a chapter in the book Nonviolent Coexistence.

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53 Responses

  1. eee
    June 30, 2011, 10:10 am

    You got to remember Matthew that this works both ways. 4,000 determined Jews marching into a Palestinian village cannot be stopped also. If the Palestinians start this dangerous game, they will end up as losers. They will be playing right into the Israeli extreme right organizational skills. These guys can organize a flash mob of 100,000 in 24 hours. So think ahead. Negotiations are the only way forward.

    • Kathleen
      June 30, 2011, 10:45 am

      oh you mean like those violence promoting, hate filled Israeli protesters screaming “kill the Arabs, burn their village”

      No one doubts Israel’s commitment to violence and disregard for International agreements, laws etc.
      link to mondoweiss.net

      • Proton Soup
        June 30, 2011, 4:50 pm

        here’s another recent incident. right wingers mob the supreme court when a rabbi is picked up for questioning about supporting a book that promotes the killing of non-jews.

        link to haaretz.com

        and it seems to work. police are now cowed.

        link to ynetnews.com

    • Taxi
      June 30, 2011, 10:50 am

      You’ll always be the outnumbered thugs waving nukes at everybody – and everybody knows you’re outnumbered because your euro roots are planted by force in the shallows of the region, not in it’s depth.

      Just pack up mister settler or hang around for Reality’s punch in the nose heading in slo-mo at your coarse racist leeching lifestyle.

      You’re so stupid to think that playing the ‘numbers’ game is a winning strategy.

      • seafoid
        June 30, 2011, 11:12 am

        Jews can never win the numbers game. They started off more numerous than Christians but with that “you are only a Jew if your mother was” they soon were overtaken.

      • tokyobk
        June 30, 2011, 1:08 pm

        Jews were outnumbered before matrilineal Judaism became the norm. But, yes, Jews cannot win a numbers game. Even w/o shoah and pogroms there would be “only” 100 million Jews appx. and 12 million is of course a tiny population.

      • hophmi
        June 30, 2011, 11:30 am

        We’re outnumbered because there are 16 million Jews and a billion Muslims. That’s why we’re outnumbered. It has nothing to do with our “euro roots” or whatever other ridiculous concoction you want to invent. Half of Israel does not have Euro roots.

        I could care less what nonviolence training these people undergo. The fact of the matter is that they support groups that are anything but nonviolent, and I have no faith in their ability to keep members of these groups from participating in their flotilla. It is clear from how they act and the way they write about Israel that they do not place great importance on non-violence.

      • Chaos4700
        July 1, 2011, 12:49 am

        Is that why you support the IDF when they murder children?

      • Kathleen
        July 1, 2011, 8:25 am

        bingo

      • eee
        June 30, 2011, 12:11 pm

        Of course we will always be outnumbered. Jews are a minority in the world. But we are a majority in Israel.

        Your rhetoric Taxi is so outdated. Most Israelis were born in Israel. I am second generation born here. My kids, third generation. The intermarriage between Jews from Europe and Arab countries is very high. That distinction is going away also. But keep dreaming.

      • Taxi
        June 30, 2011, 12:59 pm

        Guys guys guys (you know who you are),

        You’re outnumbered cuz you didn’t make ENOUGH BABIES BEFORE you headed out from Brooklyn and Odessa on your terrorist mission to colonize Palestine.

        Not enough gigi in your euro history or lifestyle: clearly, SCIENTIFICALLY!!

        LOL you’re actually blaming the Arabs for your low libido mister settler!

      • seafoid
        June 30, 2011, 1:35 pm

        Jews aren’t even a majority in Erez Israel.

        In order to keep the Palestinians out and subsequently keep up with the Palestinian birth rate the Ashkenazis had to do three things

        1. Bring in the backward Sepharadim
        2. Indulge the Orthodox
        3. Import the Russians

        Dreadful mistakes.

        What happened ?

        1. Shas
        2. YESHA
        3 Lieberman

        There goes your liberal Zionism (bye bye Amos Oz) and here come Orthodox welfaristas and russian and settler fascism (hello white phosphorous) .

        These extensions of the family to groups that don’t share the family values are always a mess.

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 30, 2011, 2:43 pm

        “Jews aren’t even a majority in Erez Israel. ”

        It’s less Jewish than Belgium is Flemish.

      • Max Ajl
        June 30, 2011, 4:57 pm

        Where do you get the “intermarriage…is very high”? There’s class and geographical separation so the null hypothesis is low intermarriage, Israel apparently falsifies or makes confidential demographic statistics on origins, ecological analysis by Michael Shalev and others on voting patterns and party affiliation finds that Mizrahi/Ashkenazi still matters. If you’re uncharacteristically not fabricating this stuff, link to some social science on it.

      • Chaos4700
        July 1, 2011, 12:49 am

        You are a majority in Israel because you killed off enough non-Jews to make yourselves the majority there.

      • Kathleen
        July 1, 2011, 8:27 am

        Sent Palestinians running afraid for their lives and the lives of their children

    • Kathleen
      June 30, 2011, 11:12 am

      The UN vote is coming. Headed for a cliff. As Mearsheimer has pointed out Israel’s commitment to an apartheid state is becoming more and more apparent.

      • hophmi
        June 30, 2011, 12:47 pm

        “The UN vote is coming.”

        And the Palestinians do not have the support of the Americans or the Canadians. They do not have the support of many of the Europeans. These are the people who bankroll their government. And they don’t even have the support of the Jordanians, their largest prospective neighbor.

      • seafoid
        June 30, 2011, 1:37 pm

        September is where Israel loses Europe.

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 30, 2011, 2:24 pm

        When have the Jordanians ever sided with the Palestinians?

      • Lightbringer
        June 30, 2011, 3:05 pm

        Should you have known at least something about regional history, you would’ve never ask such stupid question.

        But nevertheless here I am to enlighten you.

        Jordanians will never ever ever ever ever side with Palestinians for two main reasons:
        1 – Jordanians like Palestinians MUCH less that Israelis do, and they, being their closest neighbors for centuries, have their own reasons, rest assured.
        2 – Large part of Jordan is what Palestinians claim to be their land.

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 30, 2011, 3:18 pm

        “Should you have known at least something about regional history, you would’ve never ask such stupid question.”

        If you were even marginally literate in English, you would recognize a rhetorical question.

      • Lightbringer
        June 30, 2011, 3:27 pm

        Even rhetorical questions should not be stupid.

      • tree
        June 30, 2011, 3:51 pm

        Large part of Jordan is what Palestinians claim to be their land.

        NO. a large part of Jordan is what some racist Israeli Jews, and their racist fellow-travellers here in the US, claim to be Palestinian land.

        Jordanians like Palestinians MUCH less that Israelis do, and they, being their closest neighbors for centuries, have their own reasons, rest assured.

        OMG! Red alert, red alert! Major Hasbara slip-up. Return immediately to Hasbara Central for reprogramming. Palestinians have not been around for centuries, remember?

      • eee
        June 30, 2011, 4:42 pm

        “September is where Israel loses Europe.”

        Yeah, right:
        link to seattlepi.com

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 30, 2011, 4:50 pm

        “Even rhetorical questions should not be stupid.”

        My rhetorical question was making the same you were making in your ignorant response to it. So stop making stupid statements.

      • seafoid
        June 30, 2011, 5:02 pm

        There are 27 countries in the EU, eee.
        Maybe we can make a little space in Poland for the Ashkenazi exodus. The Sephardim will have to stay in the Middle East, I’m afraid.

      • Taxi
        June 30, 2011, 9:04 pm

        Sounds like justice to me, seafoid.

      • hophmi
        June 30, 2011, 11:47 pm

        link to en.wikipedia.org
        link to en.wikipedia.org

        Yeah, that’s right. Send them back to Poland, where 98% of them were killed and Holocaust survivors were killed postwar.

      • Chaos4700
        July 1, 2011, 12:51 am

        Are you saying, hophmi, that Jews are willfully relinquishing their right of return to Poland?

      • pjdude
        July 1, 2011, 1:20 am

        um if your supposed to enlighten us why are you wrong?

      • seafoid
        July 1, 2011, 4:19 am

        Hophmi

        Holocaust survivors are less likely to live below the poverty line in Poland. Fact.

        Jews are safer in Europe.

        There aren’t as many wars of aggression.

    • Bill in Maryland
      June 30, 2011, 11:37 am

      Thank you triple-e for providing this metaphor for the history of Israel:

      4,000 determined Jews marching into a Palestinian village cannot be stopped also.

      Except that the Zionists started this “game” and may end up as the losers. And the Palestine Papers have shown that negotiations are completely and totally pointless in stopping the illegal land grab.

    • stevieb
      June 30, 2011, 12:04 pm

      Not even in the same ballpark, eee.

      Israel has sent troops in to Palestinian towns already, and destroyed them many, many times.

      So you’re a bit late.

      And what’s with the threats? Israel is a fascist state, is that what you are defending, facism?

      Wake up eee…

      • eee
        June 30, 2011, 2:06 pm

        Stevieb,

        Israel is a democracy. My point is simple. If the Palestinians use non-violent “mob” power, Israelis will organize and do the same, only more effectively and with bigger crowds.

      • Chaos4700
        July 1, 2011, 12:52 am

        No you won’t. You’ll aim your guns and cannons at the crowds of non-Jews and open fire indiscriminately. That’s what Israelis have been doing since before 1948 and I suspect it’s what Israelis will be doing even after Israel will cease to exist. I look forward to you and your children becoming the next generation’s analog to the Taliban in Afghanistan, eee.

      • Kathleen
        July 1, 2011, 8:29 am

        Israel is an apartheid state. Becoming more apparent to all of the world and even Americans. The facts are getting through

      • Lightbringer
        July 1, 2011, 9:17 am

        Israel does not even remotely falls under such definition.

      • Chaos4700
        July 1, 2011, 9:35 am

        Here is a practical example of Israeli apartheid right of the top of my head.

        Israel: Budget Discriminates Against Arab Citizens

      • Lightbringer
        July 1, 2011, 9:52 am

        Yeah, that’s how it works.
        Grab one separate incident, preferably over 10 years old, and call entire state apartheid.

        P.S. Interesting, how many Negroes were in South African parliament?

      • Chaos4700
        July 1, 2011, 9:35 pm

        David Duke ignores the evidence. When I’m talking to you, Lightbringer, I’m talking to David Duke.

        P.S. “Negroes?!” OMFG. Seriously. The David Duke metaphor is starting to leave the realm of metaphor when it comes to you.

      • Lightbringer
        July 2, 2011, 7:15 am

        You ignore the evidence as well, even on greater scale so it’s safe to say that when you are talking to me, you are talking to yourself.
        Maybe you are that Duke Nukem guy?

        P.S. You still haven’t answered the question. Don’t bother tho – we both know the answer.

    • Ellen
      June 30, 2011, 12:12 pm

      4,000 determined Jews marching into a Palestinian village cannot be stopped also. Those words sounds like a threat of violence? Taylor wrote of non violent protesters marching legally and peacefully to a checkpoint or to a settlement.

      If the Palestinians start this dangerous game, they will end up as losers.
      Can you explain? Exactly how and what would peaceful posters loose?

      They will be playing right into the Israeli extreme right organizational skills. These guys can organize a flash mob of 100,000 in 24 hours.

      And??

      Negotiations are the only way forward.

      Aside from the fact that negotiations have been for naught for almost 70 years and that Israel has repeatedly not lived up to negotiations (even upon agreements made with the Zionist Irgun and others before the founding of the Israeli Zionist State) ongoing negotiations do not rule out peaceful marches and protests. Non violent marches are legitimate expression for all people.

      Why all the bluster and threats?

      • eee
        June 30, 2011, 2:03 pm

        Ellen,

        What threats? Just telling it like it is.
        I am talking also about non-violent marches. 100,000 Jews waving Israeli flags march into Ramallah, or Jenin or Nablus or Hebron and stage a sit in. What then? Will the Palestinians use force to remove them?

      • Chaos4700
        July 1, 2011, 12:53 am

        We both know that if Israelis did that, all of the Palestinians in those cities would be dead, eee. Your army would guarantee it.

  2. Kathleen
    June 30, 2011, 10:48 am

    Israel has been throwing peaceful non violent Palestinian Gandhi’s into prison for decades. Hey and Israel does not fear the US MSM will touch peaceful Palestinian protest. Rachel Maddow and the rest of the MSM bought out media leaped right over the Palestinian protest while they were covering the protest in Tunisia, Egypt etc. Richard Engel, Rachel tagged teamed this leap, this avoidance of covering the peaceful Palestinian protest…you know those liberal outlets

    • Lightbringer
      June 30, 2011, 11:42 am

      “Israel has been throwing peaceful non violent Palestinian Gandhi’s into prison for decades.”
      Can I have three (3) examples please?

      • Lightbringer
        July 1, 2011, 9:20 am

        Ok.
        Three examples is too much.

        Maybe just one than?

        (I know that you won’t produce any, still I want to make a point)

      • Chaos4700
        July 1, 2011, 9:32 am

        I think everybody’s ignoring you because A) you’re an ugly anti-Arab racist who is characterizing 90% of Palestinian males in the occupied territories as violent savages, since that’s about in the realm of Palestinians who have been through Israel’s prison camp system, and B) if we do name people, Israelis will torture them.

      • Lightbringer
        July 1, 2011, 10:26 am

        “you’re an ugly anti-Arab racist” – Dude, I’m not anti-Arab. Arabs does not mean enough for me to be anti-Arab.
        Check my profile for further reference.

        “90% of Palestinian males … violent savages” – you said that.

        P.S. isn’t peaceful protests are about to be tortured by the oppressor?
        Per dolorem ad astra so to say, no pain no gain.

        Anyway, it’s not the case.

      • Chaos4700
        July 1, 2011, 9:37 pm

        By now your comment history is littered with racist statements and attempts to transform Judaism into the 21st-century analog of Aryanism. I don’t really have to respond to you. The documented record speaks for itself.

  3. Arnon Shwantzinger Too
    June 30, 2011, 11:48 am

    eee, that almost sounded like a threat. Albeit one that is being implemented daily under one form or another. Palestinians are already the losers. They cannot “end up the losers”, as you’ve suggested. They’ve already lost.
    As the saying goes in my country – You cannot threaten a wh*r* with d*ck.

    Your veiled threat of “unleashing” pogroms against the Arabs is indeed a foregone conclusion in the minds of many living in this tortured land. Let’s all hope it does not come to pass.

  4. lysias
    June 30, 2011, 11:48 am

    Perhaps just coincidentally, Joe Biden’s wife Jill on the morning of June 28th visited the U.S. guided missile destroyer USS Ramage, which happened to be off the coast of Athens. On Board the USS RAMAGE: Dr. Jill Biden Visits with Sailors in Greece. Wouldn’t that have been around the time the first boat was sabotaged in Piraeus harbor?

    I wonder what the Ramage’s mission is for being in Greece, and whether it is carrying any SEALs.

    I’m sorry. I put this in the wrong thread. I’ll move it to the right one.

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