Bill Kristol
Right after sundown this evening, the neoconservative Emergency Committee for Israel issued a strident attack on DefSec Leon Panetta for his statement at the Saban Forum yesterday that Israel has to "get to the damn table." Bill Kristol said that Obama blames Israel for all the problems of the Middle East:
"The Obama message is loud and clear: the world would be a safer, simpler, and more peaceful place if not for the troublesome Jewish state."
The attack was also aimed at Howard Gutman, the U.S. ambassador to Belgium, for comments he made this week that Muslim hatred of Jews stems from the Palestinian situation.
Kristol's statement is remarkable for its brittle petulance and is another sign that the ground is shifting and the neocons are under assault. They're flailing. This feels like it's aimed at conservative Jewish donors. Kristol strikes a poor-little-Israel tone when it comes to the Arab spring and Turkey; and he is unconsciously grandiose when he says that Gutman's comments will prompt his recall as ambassador. Do you really think the lobby has that kind of power? Maybe it does...
Below are Ynet's very imprecise report of Gutman's statement and then an excerpt of Kristol's attack. Ynet:
A distinction should be made between traditional anti-Semitism, which should be condemned and Muslim hatred for Jews, which stems from the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, Gutman said. He also argued that an Israeli-Palestinian peace treaty will significantly diminish Muslim anti-Semitism.
The American envoy, a lawyer by training, is Jewish and played a major role in fundraising for the Democratic Party. He was appointed to the post by President Barack Obama.
Now here is Kristol, partial:
Nobody believes President Obama when he claims, as he did last week, that he “has done more for the security of the state of Israel than any previous administration.” That’s because he hasn’t — and because President Obama and his administration keeps acting to weaken the security of the state of Israel.
For example: as reported in the Israeli press, the U.S. ambassador to Belgium, Howard Gutman — a top Obama fundraiser in 2008 — told a conference in Brussels this week that Muslim anti-Semitism “stems from the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.” Pardon us for retaining our belief that Muslim anti-Semitism in the Middle East predates 1967, and even 1948 — and in any case is the fault of the anti-Semites, not of the Jews.
At another conference, this one in Washington, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta surveyed the Middle East and discovered that at every turn, the Jewish state is to blame for problems in the Muslim world. Are there Arab uprisings that are bringing Islamists to power and endangering peace with Israel? Israel must placate the radicals. Are there constant provocations and taunts from Turkey’s Islamist government? Israel must beg for better treatment. Do Palestinians refuse to negotiate? “Get to the damn table,” Panetta thundered twice — as if Israel was refusing to talk, instead of the reverse.
Just about the only thing in the Middle East that President Obama hasn’t blamed Israel for is the Iranian nuclear program. But when it comes to this, too, instead of supporting crippling sanctions or preparing military strikes, the White House seems to spend more time deterring Israel from acting than deterring Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons in the first place. And the administration’s energy seems more focused on undermining Israel and those members of Congress pushing for a tougher approach to Iran, than in undermining the Iranian regime.
The Obama message is loud and clear: the world would be a safer, simpler, and more peaceful place if not for the troublesome Jewish state.
Ambassador Gutman’s comments were not way out of line with Obama’s worldview. Nonetheless, we expect he will be recalled because the Obama administration won’t want to expend political capital defending him. He should be recalled, of course. But what the events of recent days emphasize is that the problem is not with one ambassador or with one cabinet secretary. The problem is President Obama.”
>> “The Obama message is loud and clear: the world would be a safer, simpler, and more peaceful place if not for the troublesome Jewish state.”
Well, duh! Is Kristol actually suggesting that the world is a safer, simpler and more peaceful place WITH a troublesome (and religion-supremacist) “Jewish state”?
[1] He is suggesting that the world is safer and simpler for Zionists if Zionism is allowed to run amok. [2] He is suggesting also that because (as he would have it, and as it probably is) there are multiple causes of tension in M/E, that therefore Israel (even if a prime cause of tension) need do nothing to defuse that part of the tension for which it is solely responsible. [3] He is doubtless also suggesting that a big Israel (the ONE STATE, undemocratic, apartheid, and indivisible-as-far-as-Israel-cares that exists today) is NOT something to be tinkered with in the interest of reducing tension in the M/E. ALL THIS IS SUGGESTED when he appeals to Zionist fears and prejudices. and he does n’t have to spell it out. (We do.)
For more on the Gutman statement, see my musings here.
For more on the Gutman statement, see my musings here.
Gutman was addressing a propaganda dog and pony show sponsored by the European Jewish Union (EJU). The EJU is shreying that anti-Zionism and the delegitimization of the State of Israel are forms of Jew-hatred which justify the establishment of a new organization analogous to the ADL empowered with new legal weapons. link to ejpress.org
Here are some points Gutman didn’t address:
a) The ADL is an international organization with European Regional Offices in Vienna, Austria.
b) The formal efforts by Zionist organizations to encourage European governments to adopt discriminatory legislation against Jewish refugees from the former Soviet Union and elsewhere in order to promote migration to Israel violates both the content and intent of the law of the EU (aquis communitare) on human rights, racism, and xenophobia, i.e. Zionists promote Jew hatred when it suits their own interests.
c) The formal plans and programs of Zionist organizations target Palestinians for crimes as defined in the Statute of the International Criminal Court (Articles 6, 7 and 8) in violation of the EU Framework decision on combating racism and xenophobia, e.g. population transfer, deportation, and theft or destruction of natural resources and property. link to europa.eu
obama has never done anything to suggest anything of the sort. to bad that message is true the world would be safer simpler and more peaceful with out Israel.
Nobody believes President Obama when he claims, as he did last week, that he “has done more for the security of the state of Israel than any previous administration.” That’s because he hasn’t— and because President Obama and his administration keeps acting to weaken the security of the state of Israel.
Well then, Defence Minister Barak must be a nobody…
link to dovbear.blogspot.com
“Kristol accuses Obama of wanting the Jewish state to disappear”
Considering the way Israel and its bully boys have been pissing on Obama, I’d be astonished if he didn’t.
“the world would be a safer, simpler, and more peaceful place if not for the troublesome Jewish state.”
It probably would.
From link to en.wikipedia.org
Ah, Time again, now through Kristol. So that is why it is coming back and back again on this site. And Phil is breaking down the Time stature. Now I can agree. Just didn’t know Time was that Zionist. All my earlier questions clarified now.
Do Palestinians refuse to negotiate? “Get to the damn table,” Panetta thundered twice — as if Israel was refusing to talk, instead of the reverse.
Let’s be honest. During the direct talks conducted by George Mitchell, the construction of settlements in East Jerusalem never stopped and the representative of Israel refused to touch the map of the proposed borders offered by the PA, because he claimed it would result in the fall of Netanyahu’s government.
Now Haaretz is reporting that, although the Palestinians have fulfilled the Quartet’s demand and presented them with two documents relating to the borders of a future Palestinian state and security arrangements with Israel, the Quartet told the Palestinians that the documents would not be passed to the Israelis. The Quartet representative claimed the proposals were irrelevant because they had not been presented in direct talks with Israel! link to haaretz.com
It’s time for the Palestinians to pull the plug on the non-functional Quartet and tell the US, EU, and Russian Federation their proposals and statements will be considered irrelevant until such time as they are presented in direct talks with the State of Palestine in the appropriate UN political and judicial organs. The State that Obama and everyone else would like to see disappear is the occupied State of Palestine.
Hi Hostage,
May I add that one reason that Palestinian side’s concrete proposals are considered not worthy of Israel’s attention is the fact that they do not contain “anything new” which means of course, that they do not contain any fresh concessions, and therefore are worthless and a sign that Palestinians are not serious about negotiations.
And the Obama administration then chided the Palestinians for “leaking” the news that they had turned in the proposals.
The world WOULD be much safer, more peaceful, quieter and a more pleasant place to live in if not for the Colonial Apartheid State.
Now, isn’t it telling though that Kristol extracted ALL that from a simple statement in which Panetta urged both sides to get to the table?
Someone tell Kristol it’s called Psychological Projection.
Those Zionist Neo-Cons are so touchy.
not touchy, suddenly realistic & for good reason
the settler entity’s days are numbered
how long before?
a year at most
nonsense?
then what was that jolt?
the earth, catching up
I think Kristol has a point — Panetta and Gutman are saying, if somewhat indirectly, that Israel is a problem and their refusal to enter into real negotiations with the Palestinians are causing US FP some real problems. Didn’t Mullen and Petraeus say similar things over the last few years.
Politically the lobby is extremely powerful inside the US and it is not clear at all if these feeble statements by Panetta and Gutman will stand. But they are a symptom of the pressures inside the US government against the one sided support that the US has given Israel over the last 60 years. Interesting development to be sure, but whether they signal any real change in US policy remains to be seen.
doesn’t whether it’s merely an interesting development or the beginning of a reversal in america’s approach to the p/i conflict depend at least partially on what the anti-zionist/justice for palestine movement does to educate the public on the veracity of the ambassador’s statement?
Yes we do have a small role to play in the short term. In the long term I think we have a huge role to play.
Well this idiocy coming out of the lobby will actually do the rest of us a favor. Israel couldn’t have a more accommodating ally than the Obama administration and the Lobby is still undermining him! This will split the Jewish vote and, ultimately, Jewish campaign donations and pave the way for the Lobby’s own slide into ineffectiveness. There are a big contingent of left-leaning Jews who will never vote Republican and there is a contingent of power brokering campaign donors who will eschew funding Democrats.
Congratulations, Israel, you’ve done with the rest of us could never have done ourselves — you’re slaying the dragon that is your own corrupt Lobby!
There is no amount of AIPAC and Israeli ass-kissing that Pres. Obama can perform to satisfy the neo-cons or their media proxies.
The only action that would satisfy them is to join Israel in an attack on Iran.
Not even that would satisfy them. Arrogance such as theirs, based on insecurities as great as theirs, is never ultimately satisfied. It’s ultimately closed to the world and open only to itself.
indeed the world would be a safer, simpler and more peaceful place without the troublesome zionist entity
disappear it*, president obama
if you want to win the election, that is
*the entity, not its people
we expect he will be recalled because the Obama administration won’t want to expend political capital defending him. He should be recalled, of course
omg, the chutzpa! defending him against whom???? who will be breathing down their necks bill kristol? you and your ilk? for what exactly? for what everyone already knows? the animosity towards jews from arabs ( tho i will not presume to gauge what is in another man’s heart and deem it hatred) is of course directly related to the nakba. this is a no brainer.
let this be a learning lesson for americans. oh please let it be so.
phil, you have outdone yourself, this is why mondoweiss is the best site on the internet for everything i/p. i salute you.
us anti-zionists might consider preempting the israel-firsters with a campaign (online to start) endorsing the ambassador’s statement & calling upon president obama not to cave this time but to speak out in support of his appointee.
good idea yt
The big political and environmental ORGs have petitions almost every day to protect wolves and whales, protect social-security, protect internet-access, etc. THEY ALSO HAVE A WIDE MEMBERSHIP which gives meaning to their petitions.
Do we have the technical know-how to make a petition or borrow the existing mechanisms? Do we have a wide enough support to get any sort of numbers? In USA? Internationally?
isn’t now the time for all supporters of justice for palestine who have computor skills to step forward & do their thing?
Do we have the technical know-how to make a petition or borrow the existing mechanisms?
Yes, existing mechanisms do exist. One of the biggest is: Avaaz
“Avaaz—meaning “voice” in several European, Middle Eastern and Asian languages—launched in 2007 with a simple democratic mission: organize citizens of all nations to close the gap between the world we have and the world most people everywhere want.” (from their About file.)
They are already on the Palestine case. Check them out:
link to avaaz.org
Whoah it sure is getting nasty out there: the fight for the 2012 White House.
Clearly, we ain’t gonna strike Iran anytime soon so long as Obama’s in charge – this side of christmas to the next in 2012, nothing like that’s gonna happen. AND there’s no guarantee for the zios that if Obama wins a second term, he’ll be parachuting our soldiers down on Iranian soil.
Consider also here the fact that the israeli military can’t go it alone in any effective measure, and also be mindful that due to the American weak economic climate, most Americans presently don’t have an appetite for another costly mideast war, as much as they may hate the mullahs. Now is not the right time, they’ll be thinking to themselves. And if israel rolls the war dice in the meantime and hits iran and drags us into war against our will, israel stands to become isolated by the American people at large. A very dangerous gamble indeed for the israelfirsters.
In other words, the zios know that the winds are blowing against them and they can’t have their predatory war on behalf of their beloved israel. And THAT sure is frothing-up the mouths of zio/neocon/aipac execs. Just look at ‘em: their whip ain’t working and suddenly they’ve been cornered and all they can do is white-trash-bad-mouth the very first African American President and bludgeon him in public with the jewish card on behalf of Apartheid israel. I hate to say this but there’s gonna be a racial backlash to all this public assaulting.
“A distinction should be made between traditional anti-Semitism, which should be condemned, and Muslim hatred for Jews, which stems from the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, Gutman said. He also argued that an Israeli-Palestinian peace treaty will significantly diminish Muslim anti-Semitism. ”
The above is the most VITAL lesson your average Joe and Jane should be taught about the Arab-israeli conflict.
American zios have spent a trillion+ keeping these simple facts well hidden in their war bunkers.
The grotesque tapestry of lies is on fire and all the spit that Kristol and his cabal can ragingly muster will NOT put it out.
There WILL BE an age of enlightenment in America once the warmongering israelfirsters have been exposed and thrown out of the halls of Capitol Hill.
Which I reckon will happen within the next two elections: 9 years – no later.
Things are moving fast and faster all the time folks. Humpty Dumpty’s wall is cracking before our eyes and his falling will be televised.
damn it. you b*tch taxi. you just ripped those thoughts right out of my mind and stole em didn’t you? not fair. not fair. in my next life i’m gonna be able to give a tongue lashing like that. shit, pisses me off.
The grotesque tapestry of lies is on fire and all the spit that Kristol and his cabal can ragingly muster will NOT put it out.
my thoughts! you stole em!
ok, maybe ‘stole’ is the wrong word. it’s just no fair some people can express it better than others. i thought it tho. too. originally. probably.
LOL annie, my analysis is just me seeing the chess pieces on the chessboard moving in slo-mo and taking down some mental notes.
Not sure that I deserve all the dope compliments you give me. I think the most worthy of praise person on this post is Howard Gutman, the U.S. ambassador to Belgium.
Chapeau to Howard Gutman.
compliments? what compliments?
: s
i am just practicing my emoticons.
I hate to say this but there’s gonna be a racial backlash to all this public assaulting.
i don’t think that the racial component of the ‘analysis’ of obama’s policies is examined thoroughly enough. that’s the sense i get when i confront ‘white’ critics of obama ‘the socialist’. in the context of ME affairs, as far as i can tell his foreign policy is consistent with bushII, but that argument falls on deaf ears. and as for domestic policy, obama comes firmly from the corporatist tradition. (a tip of the hat to propagandists who managed to convince the same people screaming about the decline of american industry during the rise of toyota and honda, but now argue that any suggestion of aiding the auto industry amounts to ‘socialism’.)
the same with billy kristol here. obama hasn’t done a damn thing to interfere with the construction of illegal settlements (the biggest practical impediment to peace talks imo), and ‘nuclear’ iran is on the lips of everyone, every day, at the departments of state and defense, yet obama still can’t jump high enough to prove his devotion to all things zionist.
marcb,
Like my African American friend said to me right after Natanyahu’s 29 standing ovations in congress: “The jews are getting the wasps to beat up on our main man and that ain’t cool.” So what you gonna do ’bout it? I asked. He shrugged his shoulders and said: “We’re playing dead for now. Don’t wanna make it tougher on Obama. Don’t want history books to say there’s all that racial shit going on in the streets of America on his watch”.
Consciously restrained AND aware of long-term consequences. This is where the African American community’s at under Obama.
Yes it’s a smart posture to take, for the good of America too, but at some stage this strategy of “playing dead” is gonna become counter-productive.
“Muslim traditional anti-semitism”. ? Where did this come from. Judaism and the Jewish community were an integral an honored religion and people during the Islamic awakening. Jews, Christians and Muslims lived in peace and friendship with respect for each others religion in Palestine until the Zionist enchroachment. Words matter.
Yeah peeesss, words do matter.
They’re there to be used to present truth, but are so often twisted to present lies or half-truths.
What you said matters because it is truth:
Jews, Christians and Muslims lived in peace and friendship with respect for each others religion in Palestine until the Zionist enchroachment.
That is what Zionists need to read and hear again and again.
Surprisingly, most of the Jewish informants regretted the historical fact that the Arabs left the city, and every now and again they told stories about the “innocent time”, when harmony and peace had characterized the two neighboring sides for hundreds of years.
link to books.google.co.nz
He’s talking about Zionism, obviously. And the immediate problem with that is convincing literally hundreds of Jewish Org’s that have support for Israel(right or wrong)as their fundamental agenda, to abandon that. Hence of course the ongoing push, particularly in Canada, to make anti-Zionism a crime.
But this is too far out there for nothing to happen, as had been happening. It’s clear support for Israel is at the top of agenda for the major western powers – and clear that for most of the population it simply is not. And it’s becoming easier to link this support for Israel(the ‘Jewish state’) – and thus,war – to waning economic conditions.
Not good.
“The Obama message is loud and clear: the world would be a safer, simpler, and more peaceful place if not for the troublesome Jewish state.”
It’s very high stakes blackmail. What more do they want ? UN veto on the Palestinian state not good enough. Flotilla prevention not good enough. Iraq war not good enough.
Finkelstein has a good book called Image and Reality of the IP conflict
.
This Kristol thing is about trying to set reality to match the imaginary Israel of the lobby. And it is impossible now.
And when someone like Kristol makes a hysterical statement like that how do Israeli Jews feel? They are not calm at the best of times.
Is Kristol angling for an attack on Iran?
The other thing about this pantomime is that Israel is the only country in the world whose future is subject to the caprices of the US political system. All of the BS about strongest ally yada yada can’t hide this fact. Can anyone imagine the Bulgarians or the Senegalese worrying about who wins the 2012 election and causing Bulgaria or Senegal to disappear? How could a country find itself in such a precarious position ?
Indeed. Israel is subject to the caprices of the U.S. political system. It is increasingly dependent on american protection for its follies, just as as apartheid South Africa was two decades ago. But U.S. political protection of South Africa collapsed twenty years ago, and soon after that S.A. apartheid itself collapsed. Apartheid Israel’s U.S. political protection will eventually collapse too.
This kind of language Kristol knows has worked in the past, causing Republicans to side with him,then Obama tries to outdo the Republicans in his fealty to Israel and on and on, why will it not work this time? Obama has shown he has no self respect or backbone,witness those AIPAC and UN performances, but it is significant that some big guns are speaking out now, in my opinion in an election year Kristol can get away with almost anything and he knows it.
In an irony that is fully understood by the readers here but is apparently missed by Bill Kristol, the eventual disappearance of the Jewish State is hastened by Kristol and his neo-conservative friends. True democracy benefits from diversity, whether religious or racial. All else is temporary and unsustainable. The Jewish State will not end at the battlefield, but at the polling booth. Enfranchisement of the Palestinians will come. It must come.
Kristol may be shooting his own paw. I doubt most US citizens, I mean the numerical most, have any deep concerns about the Middle East which is, after all, one of those things you elect someone to deal with. I also doubt most have ever heard of Kristol although I imagine they know of Panetta and likely hold him in some respect as a plain speaker in the good old American tradition, ‘get back to the damned table’ is about as unequivocal as you can get, quite apart from Panetta’s awesome responsibilities for their safety and security. Furthermore, if this guy, whoever he is, says “Obama’s message is loud and clear: the world would be a safer, simpler, and more peaceful place if not for the troublesome Jewish state,” perhaps it’s true. After all, Obama is the President and he’s supposed to know about these things.
By the bye, if ToiVos is watching, the ‘W’ in my name does not stand for ‘whatever’ but is the initial of my surname just as ‘J O’C’ are the initials of my middle names and are concatenated here purely for purposes of economy.
Noted. I can remember 7 characters, but 8 on exceed my capacity. The whatever was for whatever followed the first 7. ATT realized this fact for the average person when they instituted telephone numbers about 80 years back.
Kristol is lying. Panetta told the Israelis to get to the table THREE times, not two. :
Phil wrote: “Kristol’s statement is remarkable for its brittle petulance”
“Brittle petulance”–Phil, great writing! Time to quit MW and become a best-selling author!
Message to Kristol:
“Anyone can become angry – that is easy, but to be angry with the right person at the right time, and for the right purpose and in the right way – that is not within everyone’s power and that is not easy.”–Aristotole
Good luck with this Bill–you’ve obviously still have a lot to learn…
wow. great quote. thanks
“the world would be a safer, simpler, and more peaceful place if not for the troublesome Jewish state.”
If Obama only said this in public he could say what many of us feel; as it may resonate with the greater public. But, it’s election season and Zionist pockets in America run deep, and I’m certain Newt can use this against the incumbent.
Hasn’t the US government done enough of the heavy lifting for the 2% minority of America in building a religious apartheid state on the backs of the Palestinians misery? When is it enough for the Jewish population to stop using this government for it’s own selfish agenda?
heavy lifting for only the 1% of the 2% minority of america in building an apartheid state on the backs of the palestinians’ misery. please cease & desist in generalizing about all jewish-americans, because there’s a shift underway now and it’s decidedly in the direction of justice for palestine. don’t believe it? then why are the israel-firsters in such a state of panic? they’ve only got the christian end-timers on their side now, and who knowls how long they’ll stay, once the public turns against israel-firsters
yeah, well you’re right. I didn’t mean to include all in the 2 percent.
But my point was about 1% to the 100% argument, as you restated.
Wow, the CHUTZPA of those people is just astonishing .
It feels like they call the Big Shots in America. They are the Bossess.
I can not imagine ANY other ethno-religious group in America having the nerve to speak like this. I cann’t imagine Italians or Greeks demanding from President to attack The EU because it led them to bankruptcy ,or the Polish people to attack Russia because of the presidential plane crash that happened on russian soil on 04.10.2010.
To demand a recall of the US Ambassador just because he said a few sentences that they did not like ?
To force president of the US into a “preparing military strikes” , into starting the next war, just because THEY FEEL like he should ??
It feels like THEY are running the show, and are upset that it does not go exactly the way THEY planned.
How dare the president of America doesn’t want to listen listen to them??
How dare he doesn’t want to start a new war?
How dare he deter Israel from acting, from doing what it wants??
How dare he undermines the power of Israel and Israeli Lobby in the US??
How dare, how dare.
” But when it comes to this, too, instead of supporting crippling sanctions or preparing military strikes, the White House seems to spend more time deterring Israel from acting than deterring Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons in the first place. And the administration’s energy seems more focused on undermining Israel and those members of Congress pushing for a tougher approach to Iran, than in undermining the Iranian regime
Mr. Kristol,
The fact that you make no mention of Mr. Sarkozy (Obama’s best friend who BTW shares his view of Bibi) in your remarks shows you to be a true francophile…
Chu, like the Rich Gulf Arab countries aren’t paying off other countries to be Pro Arab and anti Israel.
I like when i post something it says,
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
What is this, Assad’s Syria? I have to wait for the Phillip Weiss the dictator to give permission to let a comment on here.
I think their needs to be an Occupy Mondoweiss movement and let free speech on here!
welcome, a new arrival with 13 comments in 3 days
each one decidely israel-first
with the latest calling for an occupy mondoweiss movement
evidence that his/her hasbara paymaster considers mw a threat?
what a compliment!
nice going, phil
one troll was just ousted a few days ago and then this one arrives like gangbusters w/guns drawn directly afterwards.
wanna make a bet on how long phil and adam let him stick around littering up the threads?
This new troll is also saying there is no occupation and that Palestinians have no right to the land because there never was a Palestinian State.
Get new hasbara you failure of a troll.
I’ve seen a Hasbaratchik complain about you Cliff on the NYTimes commnt section not too long ago – sorry didn’t save link.
I salute you sir!
“Phillip Weiss the dictator…
Dan, are you aware that you are lookin really, really stupid? EVERYBODY’S comments first appear with the “awaiting moderation” tag. And then a certain amount of time, highly variable, from minutes to hours, passes before the comment is published. It is the same for everybody.
Good job Dan!
BTW Dan, if you don’t like it here, you can open a blog, today, for free. And you can do it through any one or more of a number of services.
And you really should, Dan. I mean, what with the complete absence of the Zionist narratives from the media, you owe it to yourself and your fellow Zionists.
Let me know if you need help, and I will crawl you through the process.
Well, actually, annie’s comments don’t. But still, 99% correct.
“Well, actually, annie’s comments don’t.”
She is staff.
DanMazella
We all have to go through moderation. Many of us are long-time commentators. 4+ years ago, there was no moderation and people like you could get away with calling Arabs and Muslims sub-human and screaming one Zionist conspiracy theory after another.
Be happy you were able to get away with producing such a vile propaganda-filled comment already.
Israel is defending itself against Pan-Arabism, Arab imperialism and Arabization of the Middle East. Just ask the Kurds, Coptics, Black Christians of Sudan, Berbers and Western Sahara about this.
The real problem is global Arab/Moslem insistence to spread hate, violence, wars, terrorism, lies, false accusations against Jews and reducing Jews to subhumans or second class citizens – slaves or servants – without any human rights, civil rights or national rights whatsoever.
Arab Jew hatred and Arab refusal to recognize our right to live and exist – they want to kill us and take our land through falsification of history and through terrorism and blackmail and threats.
Dan,
Where are you coming from on Mideast politics? Nationality? Religious background? Ethnic background? Cultural biases? Ideological biases? Financial interests?
Dan,
Regarding me:
1. American citizen
2. Roman Catholic by upbringing
3. currently agnostic
4. Anglo-Irish ethnicity
5. politics: progressive libertarian
6. strongly biased towards Enlightenment values — reason, meritocracy, etc.
7. no stakes whatever, financial or emotional, among the various parties to Mideast conflicts (but somewhat biased towards Jewish civilization in general)
8. quickly bored and annoyed by ethnic and religious activists and militants of all kinds
9. main priority in Mideast politics: what policies are most consistent with the best American values and most important American interests? Are they good for Americans?
Israel is not defending itself from anyone or anything. Existential or real.
Israel is a colonial settler-state founded on the expulsion and subjugation of the indigenous population of Historic Palestine.
Its you, DanMazella, who are the racist, imperialist sludge who refuses to recognize the right of Palestinians to self-identify and to have their State in their historic homeland.
It is you who conflates all Arabs together as one big amorphous blog. Only a racist Zionist troll like you would distill all the complexity of these people (who far outnumber the Jews of the ME) into a monolith.
You have no right to exist because States do not, by definition have a ‘right’ to exist. States rise and fall and no State ever had more of a right to exist than the other.
People have a right to exist though, and you refuse to recognize the right of the Palestinian people to exist. You refuse to recognize their rights on the land they have been living on (outnumbering the Jews of that land, and the European colonists and refugees who took it from them) for thousands of years.
The Palestinians aren’t occupying and colonizing anyone’s land. You are stealing theirs.
Your bullshit won’t last another 5 minutes here. This blog has seen your type many times before and you will slither away like all the other failed Zionist trolls.
Buh-bye.
Namaste Cliffy. Ignore the tedious troll. He’s just another brainwashed hater. In other words: time waster.
the kurds coptics sudan berbers and western sahara aren’t part of the middle east. its nice to to know rather than base your bigoted ideas on facts you base them on well bigotry. Israel isn’t defending its self period. its very creation was an aggressive act.
People on here dont mind Arab aparthied.
In his address at the UN General Assembly, Abbas denied that the Jews have any profound historic connection to the land of Israel. His repudiation of Israel’s most basic rights and Jewish identity coincides with his audacious racist insistence that the new Palestinian State should be Judenrein. He has argued that the Zionist movement fabricated the “six million” Jews being murdered and he financed the Munich massacre. But dont worry Arab aparthied is what the left loves.
Isn’t that awful, Dan? Try not to get too upset over it, you’ll ruin your digestion.
Israel supported racist, apartheid South Africa and ‘palled around’ with Vorster – a Nazi sympathizer.
Israel was SA’s most treasured ally during that time as well!
And Abbas’s views on the Holocaust are irrelevant since pertaining to this conflict, he is a lapdog for the US and Israel. He does not represent the Palestinian people and this makes sense historically since Israel and it’s supporters often prop up traitors, fanatics, cowards, etc. as useful idiots.
In any case, Abbas was not a military leader turned elected-leader of the Palestinian people. He was not a former terrorist like Begin who Israel elected to it’s highest office.
In Israel, former Jewish terrorist groups are honored, and symbolized. Former Jewish terrorists are elected to all levels of leadership.
This lack of accountability is systemic and Jewish terrorists get out of jail quickly as well.
The Israeli soldier who murdered Tom Hurndall got out of jail recently. He saved a reduced sentence (6 years?) and is not free. He will not have to worry about getting a job in Israeli society.
There is no standards he has to worry about.
“Arab apartheid?” How much spaghetti are you going to throw at the wall to see if it sticks? Go back to the minor leagues hasbara blogs from whence you came. This is just pathetic.
There is no Arab aparthied. Segregation is unique to Israel
Actually, he didn’t even raise the topic, but even if he had, it wouldn’t be apartheid.
His didn’t repudiate anyone’s most basic rights – you must be confusing his speech with Bibbi’s.
He made no suggestion that insistence the new Palestinian State should be Judenrein.
Even if he had, it has nothing to do with apartheid.
You might want to go and look up the definition of aparthied.
??? Israel doesn’t have racial segregation at all.
But by arab apartheid he means the severe segregation and oppression of Palestinians in Arab states like lebanon. Within Israel itself both arabs and jews have equal rights.
William Kristol in context (it’s all about Israel)
William Kristol categories:
1. 9/11 exploiter 2. ABC News pundit 3. ACPC (American Committee for Peace in Chechnya) member 4. AEI (American Enterprise Institute) affiliate 5. Afghanistan War ringleader 6. Afpak War ringleader 7. Christian Zionism manipulator 8. Christian Zionism promoter 9. Christian Zionism supporter 10. Clash of Civilizations ringleader 11. CLI (Committee for the Liberation of Iraq) member 12. Commentary Magazine writer 13. Dan Quayle adviser 14. Dan Quayle minder 15. Democrat 16. ECI (Emergency Committee for Israel) cofounder 17. FDD (Foundation for the Defense of Democracies) board member 18. Federalist Society affiliate 19. Fox News pundit 20. FPI (Foreign Policy Initiative) cofounder 21. Gertrude Himmelfarb son 22. Global War on Terror ringleader 23. Harvard University A.B. 24. Harvard University graduate 25. Harvard University Ph.D. 26. Henry Jackson supporter 27. Iran War ringleader 28. Iraq War ringleader 29. Irving Kristol son 30. Israel lobby leader 31. Israeli op 32. ISW (Institute for the Study of War) board member 33. Jew 34. Jewish activist 35. Jewish lobby leader 36. Jewish neoconservative 37. Jewish Zionist 38. John McCain minder 39. John McCain supporter 40. Keep America Safe board member 41. Lawrence Kaplan co-author 42. Lebanon War supporter 43. Libya War ringleader 44. Likud Zionist 45. Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation op 46. mainstream media pundit 47. Manhattan Institute trustee 48. Mossad op? 49. neoconservative 50. New York Times op-ed writer 51. PNAC (Project for the New American Century) cofounder 52. pro-Israel activist 53. pro-Israel militant 54. Republican 55. Rupert Murdoch employee 56. Rupert Murdoch op 57. Sarah Palin adviser 58. Sarah Palin minder 59. Shalem Foundation board member 60. Sheldon Adelson op 61. Time Magazine writer 62. torture ringleader 63. Weekly Standard cofounder 64. Weekly Standard editor 65. Weekly Standard writer
Additions and corrections welcome.
Be sure to peruse his Right Web profile here:
link to rightweb.irc-online.org
By the way, with regard to the use of the terms “Jew” and “Jewish” above: if he were Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Mormon or Buddhist, those terms would have been used. But he isn’t.
The first words that come to mind concerning William Kristol: petulant, paranoid, shrill, hysterical, fanatical, infantile, authoritarian, bullying, vindictive….
Same psychology, basically, as Pamela Geller.
With most of the neocons we are more into psychological than political issues.
sean,
You forgot to add oedipal. Bill Kristol. Just like little Dubya. Both living under the grand shadow of their fathers; both wanna out-father their own fathers.
Both remind me of Qusay and Uday Hussein.
Taxi,
Indeed — that is an important part of the complex psychological processes in play. Norman/John Podhoretz also fit the template. Perhaps also Dick/Liz Cheney. Kids trying to live up to or exceed the stature of their parents and failing (while making big messes — see especially GWB).
As pointed out before, neoconservatism is rife with nepotistic/incestuous social relations — nepotism almost defines the neocon core (along with fanatical ethnic nationalism, of course).
Parent/child relations in neoconservative political culture:
1. A.M. Rosenthal/Andrew Rosenthal
2. Arthur Sulzberger/Arthur Sulzberger Jr.
3. Benzion Netanyahu/Benjamin Netanyahu
4. Dalck Feith/Douglas Feith
5. Dick+Lynne Cheney/Liz Cheney
6. Donald Kagan/Robert+Fred Kagan
7. Douglas Feith/David+Daniel Feith
8. George H.W. Bush/George W. Bush
9. Irving Kristol+Gertrude Himmelfarb/William Kristol
10. Lucianne Goldberg/Jonah Goldberg
11. Norman Podhoretz+Midge Decter/John Podhoretz+Rachel Abrams (Decter)
12. Richard Pipes/Daniel Pipes
13. Rupert Murdoch/James+Lachlan Murdoch
Note: Bush Sr. isn’t a neocon (in fact, he has been a dedicated anti-neocon), but Bush Jr. got sucked hook, line and sinker into the neocon maelstrom.
What a wonderfully illustrative picture of Kristol: He barely rises to the shoulder of the man next to him – this might normally be of little consequence, but when you think about Kristol’s views – what he holds most dearly, is that there is to be a protected class, and he is of it. It’s like, metaphorical and sht….yea, alriiight…
William Kristol is a hideous creature and nearly everyone sees him for what he is – an agent for a foreign government and traitor to American interests … if only we could deport these israeli spies and operatives at the pinnacle of power in our politics/media/etc
Kristol let the cat out of the bag by stating precisely the question that we should all be considering. Details at “Rogue Regimes” (link to shadowedforest.blogspot.com).
“The Obama message is loud and clear: the world would be a safer, simpler, and more peaceful place if not for the troublesome Jewish state.”
If only it were true that the US government was able to state that obvious fact!
It shows the hubris of Zionists that they can make true statements about Israel, and falsely accuse people of believing them, without worrying that people will really do so.
Testing testing. My first comment here! But I have nothing to add since the article and the commenters said everything I wanted to say! Well done!
Welcome to Mondoweiss, jimbowski!
Voices of Palestine: Sheik Ismail Aal Radhwan »
by Frank Crimi
Top Hamas official working on the Hamas-Fatah unity deal believes anyone negotiating with Jewish apes and pigs will burn in hell….
Yay! More phony non-translation translations! Gotta kill their children before they kill ours, right?
radii says, William Kristol is a hideous creature and nearly everyone sees him for what he is.
If Max Blumenthal wants to see hate, he should look no further then radii.
Find those nukes in Iraq yet, Mr. Neoconservative?
seanmcbride, Arthur Sulzberger/Arthur Sulzberger Jr were never for Israel.
link to ruthfullyyours.com
Since the patriarch of The New York Times, Arthur Hays Sulzberger, determined that his paper was going to lead the charge against Israel’s founding in 1948 (he was a charter member of the infamous American Council for Judaism, the group formed to oppose a Jewish state at the height of The Holocuast) the “grey lady” has maintained its anti-Zionist policy in reporting and, for the most part, in its editorials. Its agenda, cloaked in the familiar guise of “fair and objective reporting” even extended to downplaying The Holocaust while it was occurring. Laurel Leff chronicled the paper’s misdeeds in her widely acclaimed book, “Buried by the Times.”
The Times bias over the years has been expressed in its choice of reporters. Serge Schmemann, Chris Hedges, Deborah Sontag, Max Frankel, and now, Ethan Bronner have all shared the dominant NY Times hostility towards Israel and the concomitant sympathy for Palestinian Arabs. Bottom line: you don’t get hired by the Times’ Middle East bureau unless you share its anti-Israel positions. Bearing a Jewish name does not imply a pro-Israel point of view at the paper; as historically demonstrated, the opposite is the case. Such a case in point is the current lead reporter, Ethan Bronner. I recall asking him a question when he worked for the Times’ sister paper, The Boston Globe in 2000 when Pope John Paul II made his epic visit to Jerusalem. Sheikh Ekrama Sa’id Sabri, Arafat’s appointed Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, took the occasion to spew outrageous Holocaust denial sermons and statements. When I asked Bronner why he chose not to write about Sabri, he replied that the story wasn’t worth reporting since “everyone knew Sabri’s comments.” I then asked him why he didn’t report on these statements when they first occurred. Bronner declined to answer.
LOL! Ethan Bronner is a Palestinian sympathizer.
The cream of the Hasbara crop, folks.
“LOL! Ethan Bronner is a Palestinian sympathizer.”
Does the IDF know about this?
“I recall asking him a question…”
You recall, Dan? You intervied Ethan Bronner? In 2000?
You are spamming, Dan. You are also plagiarising and probably violating copyright laws. I’d also say you are lying, but there’s no point. You probably don’t know what a lie is or how it differs from truth.
Chaos4700, why dont you talk to the Kurds, Coptics, Black Christians of Sudan, Berbers, Western Sahara, Chaldeans, Jews to learn about Arab aparthied.
Very good article about Arab aparthied.
link to frontpagemag.com
I suspect what this Mazella fellow is saying is something like “there is discrimination in Arab countries”. Indeed there is. But, unlike Israel, Sudan doesn’t get eight million dollars a day from the US to do it. Israel is part of the West, but is given special dispensation to defy Western values because it’s Jewish, so it’s OK.
You know, I tried to read the article you linked, but, oh whoops, I have such a short attention span! I stumbled upon these other ones from that, ahem, credible source you linked.
Non-Muslim Muslims and the Jihad Against the West
The Poison of Multiculturalism
Emboldening Big Labor
So thank you for warning us that “non-assimilationist”
JewsMuslims and (gasp!) labor unions are the big threats to Western civilization, Dan!@ chaos4700
Ugh! I wish you hadn’t provided those links! I made the mistake of going over and reading them. No matter how much older I get, I cannot cease to be disgusted by what horrible people share this planet with me!
How can people go from day to day spewing such venomous hatred about 1.3 billion people on this planet, and convincing others to do the same.
Thanks a lot!
>> Very good article about Arab aparthied.
>> link to frontpagemag.com
>> David Gerbi, a Libyan Jew who fled his country for Italy in 1967 to escape the recently deposed Muammar Gaddafi’s persecution …
He must not have gotten the memo that Israel is the only safe on the planet for all Jews everywhere.
>> Gerbi’s desire to re-establish the more than 2,000-year-old Jewish presence in his native land …
Libya is his native land? Surely, then, he cannot be Jewish. This explains why he fled to Italy and not to Israel.
@ DanMazella
My, my! 27 comments in 3 days! What a prolific promoter of hasbara talking points you are! This has to be a new spam record for Mondoweiss!
You may wish to pace yourself a bit, rather than shoot your entire wad in half a week! After all, we are all still going to be here when the week is over, and you will be reduced to merely repeating all your talking points – which can be so boring for all concerned – and that would be so gauche!
Maybe your paymasters didn’t warn you that all blogs are not alike. I mean, you wouldn’t want to troll on Mondoweiss as you would on, say, Huffington Post. One big difference is that most of the posters here are highly educated and very knowledgeable about I/P issues, so you are pretty likely to be handed your hat quickly if you attempt to flumox your way through without any facts, or by repeating some propaganda from your hasbara handbook. Any bullshit assertion is likely to be met with a barrage of facts with backup links and more history than you have ever had to be confronted with.
So, my friendly advice to you is to move on to more profitable terrain. The afore-mentioned Huffington post will provide far better hunting. They have lot fewer knowledgeable people and the loudest and most obnoxious poster wins, facts be damned. If that is not to your taste, then the comment sections on any number of the internet blogs for Fox News or Yahoo! may be more fruitful. They have the added benefit of allowing you to meet other hasbarites with similar interests as you. Who knows, friendship, love, and even marriage could follow!
This is the same strategy that Norman Finkelstein talks about when discussing the Zionist claim of “the new anti-semitism” – simply a strategy to distract US public opinion from what the Israeli government does on a daily basis to the Palestinians.
Kristol whines and cries and pouts from his safe, insider postion in Washington.
This is both a distraction and specifically a warning to Obama about his re-election.
Kristol is disgusting.
Kristol should be in a prison cell. He is irrelevant. I have a hard time understanding why my fellow Americans shelter their pathological lying criminals and continue to believe them after they lie. What is such mental illness?
@ Charon
What is such mental illness?
Its called “controlled information dissemination”. Quite brilliant really.