Bombshell: Israeli intelligence posed as CIA to recruit terror group for covert war on Iran

Israel/PalestineMiddle EastUS Politics
on 247 Comments

Screenshot via ForeignPolicy.com

Acclaimed author and journalist Mark Perry has published an explosive, must-read investigation in Foreign Policy that exposes how the Israeli Mossad recruited known Pakistani terrorists to wage covert war on Iran by disguising themselves as CIA agents. Perry opens:

Buried deep in the archives of America’s intelligence services are a series of memos, written during the last years of President George W. Bush’s administration, that describe how Israeli Mossad officers recruited operatives belonging to the terrorist group Jundallah by passing themselves off as American agents. According to two U.S. intelligence officials, the Israelis, flush with American dollars and toting U.S. passports, posed as CIA officers in recruiting Jundallah operatives — what is commonly referred to as a “false flag” operation.

The whole piece is worth reading. So let me try to unpack some of what Perry reports:

This is a huge story that gives crucial context to the current U.S.-Iran-Israel crisis going on right now. Perry’s article indicates that the speculation that Israel has been behind a covert campaign of bombings, assassinations and more in Iran to stop its nuclear energy program is right on the money; the scope of that campaign is much larger than previously reported, and may encompass incidents like the May 2009 Jundallah attack in Iran that killed 25 people, which Perry writes about.

Perry’s investigation gives the premise of my previous post on Iran (Iran wants talks, Israel pushing for war) a boost. Israel is running fast to kill any chance of of a diplomatic solution to the standoff over Iran–and the U.S. intelligence establishment doesn’t like it. From the article:

“It’s easy to understand why Bush was so angry,” a former intelligence officer said. “After all, it’s hard to engage with a foreign government if they’re convinced you’re killing their people. Once you start doing that, they feel they can do the same.”

Related to that point is this: certain sectors of the U.S. military and intelligence establishment are fed up with Israel’s tactics, and clearly see them as having a harmful effect on the United States. More from the article:

While the memos show that the United States had barred even the most incidental contact with Jundallah, according to both intelligence officers, the same was not true for Israel’s Mossad. The memos also detail CIA field reports saying that Israel’s recruiting activities occurred under the nose of U.S. intelligence officers, most notably in London, the capital of one of Israel’s ostensible allies, where Mossad officers posing as CIA operatives met with Jundallah officials.

The officials did not know whether the Israeli program to recruit and use Jundallah is ongoing. Nevertheless, they were stunned by the brazenness of the Mossad’s efforts.

“It’s amazing what the Israelis thought they could get away with,” the intelligence officer said. “Their recruitment activities were nearly in the open. They apparently didn’t give a damn what we thought…”

The report then made its way to the White House, according to the currently serving U.S. intelligence officer. The officer said that Bush “went absolutely ballistic” when briefed on its contents.

“The report sparked White House concerns that Israel’s program was putting Americans at risk,” the intelligence officer told me. “There’s no question that the U.S. has cooperated with Israel in intelligence-gathering operations against the Iranians, but this was different. No matter what anyone thinks, we’re not in the business of assassinating Iranian officials or killing Iranian civilians.”

Israel’s relationship with Jundallah continued to roil the Bush administration until the day it left office, this same intelligence officer noted. Israel’s activities jeopardized the administration’s fragile relationship with Pakistan, which was coming under intense pressure from Iran to crack down on Jundallah. It also undermined U.S. claims that it would never fight terror with terror, and invited attacks in kind on U.S. personnel…

What has become crystal clear, however, is the level of anger among senior intelligence officials about Israel’s actions. “This was stupid and dangerous,” the intelligence official who first told me about the operation said. “Israel is supposed to be working with us, not against us. If they want to shed blood, it would help a lot if it was their blood and not ours. You know, they’re supposed to be a strategic asset. Well, guess what? There are a lot of people now, important people, who just don’t think that’s true.”

Also related: the next time you hear complaints about the “Israeli brand” tanking in the U.S. and Europe, think about this story. Israel used fake European passports to assassinate a Hamas operative in Dubai, which upset a lot of European states. And now Perry reports that Israeli Mossad agents used American passports and cash to pass themselves off as CIA operatives. It’s as if Israel wants to be shunned as a pariah state.

And then there’s the Israel lobby angle, which is huge. President Bush was furious at Israel for doing this–but nothing was done about it. Here’s why:

A senior administration official vowed to “take the gloves off” with Israel, according to a U.S. intelligence officer. But the United States did nothing — a result that the officer attributed to “political and bureaucratic inertia.”

“In the end,” the officer noted, “it was just easier to do nothing than to, you know, rock the boat.” Even so, at least for a short time, this same officer noted, the Mossad operation sparked a divisive debate among Bush’s national security team, pitting those who wondered “just whose side these guys [in Israel] are on” against those who argued that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

That reference to “political inertia” and not wanting to “rock the boat” is clearly about the power of the Israel lobby in the U.S. Bush would have been hammered by the neoconservative wing of the GOP had anything happened that resembled a “take the gloves” approach to Israel. And while Obama has, according to Perry, “drastically scaled back joint U.S.-Israel intelligence programs targeting Iran,” there’s just no way Israel has stopped using these tactics. But the U.S., the only nation who can stop Israel from escalating the Iran crisis, is tied up by electoral politics. 

247 Responses

  1. lysias
    January 13, 2012, 5:54 pm

    As a second-term president, why should Bush have cared if the neoconservative wing of his party hammered him? Personally, I wonder if they would have dared, if he had addressed the nation on what the Israelis had been up to.

    • yourstruly
      January 13, 2012, 8:12 pm

      the public would have been with him, based on its reaction to president bush the elder’s temporary withholding in 1991-2 of a ten billion dollar loan guarantee because of israel’s refusal to suspend settlement expansion (familiar story?). opinion polls at the time found the public in support of bush’s action.

    • pabelmont
      January 14, 2012, 10:59 am

      This THE question. Can Obama be free of the Lobby after next election (if he win), or is he still trapped? Is the strangle-hold permanent or can it ever be broken?

      If Obama is re-elected and on the day after his inauguration orders his UNSC rep to introduce a resolution demanding the removal of the wall, the settlers, the settlements, and the siege, OR ELSE — what would happen (in USA politics I mean; the cheers world-wide would be deafening)?

      • dahoit
        January 14, 2012, 1:27 pm

        The clown is sending 9000 troops to Israel to boost our mutual alliance against Islam,and to reenforce the narrative of Islam being the threat, so just what makes you think he’ll do anything to impede his Israeli masters in their land grab campaign?It’s obvious he must have heard about this Israeli false flag attack by now,and the overwhelming evidence that Israel will do anything to impose their hegemony over their neighbors shows that he doesn’t care,and actually believes their total nonsensical approach is appropriate.A miseducated product of Poison Ivy League Machiavellian criminals.
        Whom the gods(no,not the Zionists,the mythical or classic ones) destroy,they first make mad (the Zionists) sounds very fitting for our current times.

      • atime forpeace
        January 15, 2012, 9:06 am

        It certainly is the work of madmen.

      • Jethro
        January 14, 2012, 11:09 pm

        No, he will not be free if he wins reelection. If he doesn’t toe the line, his party members in the House and Senate go in the crapper two years later.

        The problem is campaign finance, plain and simple.

  2. Keith
    January 13, 2012, 6:04 pm

    One of the functions that Israel performs for the empire is to perform certain tasks which the US doesn’t want to be identified with. They have been doing this for a long time. I am very suspicious of any “leak” from unnamed officials which tends to absolve Uncle Sam from some covert operation.

    • Jeffrey Blankfort
      January 13, 2012, 10:06 pm

      Keith, that is an excuse that has been offered for years to justify the mistaken notion that Israel serves as a “policeman on the beat” for the US as Chomsky described it. Israeli agents have been carrying out assassinations and terror bombings over the years that were not connected with US foreign policy. One might say that in recent years, as the control of Israel and its domestic agents aka The Zionist Establishment over Washington has been impossible to deny, the US has adopted Israel’s enemies as its own and instead of Israel doing services for the US it has been the other way around, whether it is launching a war on Iraq, coming up with the strongest ever sanctions against Iran (over the wishes of Obama and Geitner), and, as is quite possible, backing up Israel in an attack on Iran if it does not bend over and do the attacking itself. In other words, your theory is not only pure BS, it has been used to keep the Palestine solidarity movement from protesting against the Zionist establishment and its stranglehold on Congress. Me? I’m suspicious of anyone who keeps peddling it.

      • Walid
        January 14, 2012, 2:21 am

        “I’m suspicious of anyone who keeps peddling it.”

        Jeffrey, in light of this not so surprising revelation, do you have a bit of suspicion left to spare on who was behind the Hariri assassination and the half-dozen or so related political ones that followed?

      • dahoit
        January 14, 2012, 1:35 pm

        Yeah,what happened to the big report on Hezbollahs involvement they were trumpeting?You can bet the contrived evidence didn’t pass muster.
        I’ve always fingered US or Israel,and one possible reason is that being a Sunni and rich,Hariri might have been funding Iraqi resistance and was snuffed,remember it was at the height of the insurgency there. Who knows exactly(its obvious somebody knows,somewhere),but as Syria and Hezbollah were under extreme duress from the leviathan at the time ,their involvement would have been suicidal and stupid,not their usual approach.

      • Jeffrey Blankfort
        January 14, 2012, 4:49 pm

        Walid, I have seen an Israeli hand in it from the beginning as well as others that have followed since neither Syria nor Hezbollah stood to gain from his assassination. That it was an outside plot, perhaps involving infiltrators, seems even more likely when one considers that the UN set up a court that was without precedent in order to find the murderer of a person, Hariri, who was nothing more than an ordinary individual, albeit a wealthy and influential one, at the time of his death. No one seems to have questioned that anomaly.

        In the past two years, Hezbollah, as well as the Lebanese government, have exposed and arrested a number of Lebanese who were working as Israeli agents and it is quite possible that it was these Lebanese in Israel’s employ who carried out not only that assassination but the others that followed, as well. I am not aware that any of those other murders have been solved.

        When I was in Lebanon in 1983 and saw the results of the car and truck bombs I came away with the feeling that I was witnessing the future of a certain kind of warfare in which outsiders play the same role that the FBI played in the US in the 60s with COINTEL. There have been too many strange bombings in Iraq and Syria for example, in which there has been no definitive attribution. At one point, early in the Iraq occupation, two British soldiers were arrested and found to be carrying explosives and disguises. It was a one day story.

        Back to Hariri. When something like that happens we need to ask, cui bono? In that case it was clearly Israel.

      • Les
        January 14, 2012, 10:59 am

        I would love to hear from Chomsky how this latest event fits in with his theory that Israel does the bidding of the US, and not the other way around.

      • Keith
        January 14, 2012, 3:07 pm

        JEFFREY BLANKFORT- “In other words, your theory is not only pure BS, it has been used to keep the Palestine solidarity movement from protesting against the Zionist establishment and its stranglehold on Congress. Me? I’m suspicious of anyone who keeps peddling it.”

        Where to begin? My “theory” that Israel has in the past provided arms and training to some of the US death squad democracies in Latin America at US request? That Israel has performed various disreputable services for empire is hardly a “theory.” No doubt, Israel profited from these adventures, however, the US was well aware and supportive of what went on, including Israeli help to apartheid South Africa. The notion that my opinion that the CIA is intimately involved in AfPak covert ops, not the “victim” of Mossad machinations has kept “…the Palestine solidarity movement from protesting against the Zionist establishment and its stranglehold on Congress.” is an outlandish overreaction. Your lifelong emphasis on Zionism and AIPAC seems to blind you to the big picture, and to US culpability. It is one thing to highlight the power of the Zionist lobby, quite another to ignore imperial power seeking, to downplay anything which detracts from you very narrow focus.

        An important point needs to be made. I have become aware of a concerted propaganda effort to disassociate the US from active participation in attempts to destabilize Iran. Obama favors negotiations, Israel is forcing a reluctant Uncle Sam to do this or that. The intent seems to be to create the impression that Uncle Sam is some sort of innocent bystander, even as we seek to provoke an Iranian response which can be misrepresented as a provocation requiring a massive US military response. I am not alone in thinking this. Over at Dissident Voice, Michel Chossudovsky writes “Iran is the target of US-Israel-NATO war plans. Advanced weapons systems have been deployed. US and allied Special Forces as well as intelligence operatives are already on the ground inside Iran. US military drones are involved in spying and reconnaissance activities.” The article is titled “Provoking Iran into Firing The First Shot.” Link below.
        link to dissidentvoice.org

      • traintosiberia
        January 14, 2012, 3:52 pm

        Isarel has helped US in Africa,Latin America, and ME. Other countries have also. Turkey and jordan losta lot economically by supporting Gulf Wars. Saudi Arbai bankrolled it. Pakistan has helped USA from 1980s.So has Egypt and Indonesia to name a few. Pakistan has paid the ultimate price:i.e its potential dissolution.But one striking differences between Israel and the rest is that when Isreali interest is at stake ,even in a situation where American interest will be hurt, it is the Israeli economic,political.and military interests that will be protected by US through its Congress /Senate and the media.

      • Jeffrey Blankfort
        January 14, 2012, 9:22 pm

        Keith, I am well aware of what Israel has done in Latin America and South Africa and 25 years ago, in fact, I organized a large demonstration in front of the Israel Consulate in San Francisco, protesting Israel’s role as a”surrogate” for the US. My subsequent investigations disabused me of the notion that Israel was acting at Washington’s behest and not on its own with Washington’s approval.

        You might see there is little difference but when we have seen Israel, acting on its own, selling arms to China, the US has been quick to express its displeasure. Israel was selling arms to El Salvador, the Contras, and to Guatemala, where they also provided uniforms and military training because it benefited its arms industry and gained them allies in the international arena.

        Israel could also count on its friends not only in Congress, but in the non-intervention movement, who screamed about the US providing arms to those countries but almost totally silent when Israel was doing it. link to leftcurve.org.

        The situation was different in all three countries. In El Salvador, Israel was providing 83% of the weaponry before the US stepped in to replace it. In Guatemala, Israel took over when Carter stopped US aid and was responsible for making the Guatemalan army more efficient killers of the country’s highland Indians who were no threat to the US. The word for rifle there is still “Galil.” The notion that assisting in the massacres in Guatemala was done as a service to the Carter administration is not even worth debating.

        Regarding the Contras and Nicaragua, the Israelis felt an obligation to the Somoza family since during the 1948 war, Somoza senior had provided substantial financial assistance Israel.. When Israel sent a shipment of arms to help Somoza Jr. fight off the Sandinistas, Carter forced the Israeli government to call it back .In the end it was the Israelis who helped him escape. Given that the Sandinistas and the PLO had close ties, Israel was only too happy to provide AK-47s captured in the Lebanon war to the Contras, for a price.

        Israel’s ties with apartheid South Africa were qualitatively different. The two countries, almost from the very beginning of the Jewish state which happened to be the same year in which So. African apartheid was formalized, saw themselves in a similar position, namely, as superior Europeans surrounded by dangerous sub-human dark skinned peoples who threatened their existence.

        In South Africa, there was also a very wealthy and influential Jewish community which allied itself with the apartheid regime up until the end and had helped to facilitate the lucrative commercial between the countries which wenr well beyond their join development of nuclear weapons and other weapons systems. The two countries were so close that each found the other to be a welcome tourist destination. (What was rarely mentioned at the time was that when the Achille Lauro was hijacked and Klinghoffer was thrown overboard, he and his family had been vacationing in Sun City, which was the Israel’s favorite vacation destination.) Moreover, the Israeli Zim shipping lines made regular calls to the ports of Durban and Capetown. To suggest that Israel was doing this on the behalf of the US is, again, not worth debating.

      • Jeffrey Blankfort
        January 14, 2012, 11:02 pm

        PS, Keith, whereas I once had respect for Chussodovsky and some years ago interviewed him, I now consider him a shaky source for anything and the Global Research website which I also once respected has become, IMHO, a welcome mat for unsubstantiated conspiracies (as opposed to the other kind) which included one article by a LaRouchie claiming that Wikileaks was a CIA operation.

        As for Chusso and his partner stating, as if it was a fact that “Iran is the target of US-Israel-NATO war plans. [that]Advanced weapons systems have been deployed. US and allied Special Forces as well as intelligence operatives are already on the ground inside Iran” is the typical of the mixture of fact and fiction that now characterizes the site and makes it, for me, no longer worth checking out.

        Granted that the US, Israel and the NATO countries would love to see a regime change in Iran, the notion that the three entities have a joint plan to attack Iran is simply nonsense on its face. Israel has it own agenda which does not take into account the rest of the planet while the NATO countries, currently in economic quicksand, are not about to launch a war that almost surely would suck them under. The same could be said for the US.

        He says that US Special Forces are on the ground in Iran. What is his source? He said the same thing about Libya. Did we ever see them? What were they doing there? Advanced weapons have been deployed? Where, exactly?

        One of the problem with sites such as Global Research, Wayne Madsen, etc., is that they end up being like tabloids of cyberspace, competing for scoops without taking the time to research the facts. Both of them apparently believe Debka, an Israeli intelligence operation, is a solid source. Seriously.

        Hence, Madsen, writing about the fighting at the Palestinian refugee camps in Northern Lebanon a couple of years ago, said it was all about the US setting up a major base on the site. Now, anyone who knows anything about Lebanon would have dismissed that as nonsense, which it was.

        Stick with Mondoweiss where if something is up in the air that shouldn’t be, someone will most assuredly bring it down.

      • seanmcbride
        January 15, 2012, 1:03 pm

        Jeffrey,

        Amen to everything you just said — and I am more than familiar with all the fine details you mentioned. (Hey — we need to be able to “like” comments with a single click.)

      • seanmcbride
        January 15, 2012, 1:12 pm

        Jeffrey,

        Again, I agree in all your details and I think Keith is quite far off the mark in understanding the highest levels of American and European power elite politics. The global Israel lobby, which is extraordinarily wealthy and powerful, and which reaches deeply into American and European politics, is indeed pushing American and European power elites in directions they really don’t want to go.

        I am resorting to these “me too” remarks because I don’t have the time at the moment to write long essays with cites on these topics.

      • Keith
        January 15, 2012, 6:49 pm

        JEFFREY BLANKFORT- Quote from the article: “No matter what anyone thinks, we’re not in the business of assassinating Iranian officials or killing Iranian civilians.”

        Do you seriously believe this? Do you seriously believe that the CIA doesn’t do assassinations and other covert ops? Why the umbrage over my comment that I judged this “bombshell” to be disinformation?

        Why the rancor over my comment that Israel has historically performed covert operations for the US which the empire didn’t want to be associated with? “…I organized a large demonstration in front of the Israel Consulate in San Francisco, protesting Israel’s role as a”surrogate” for the US.” That being the case, you obviously are aware of the accuracy of my comment. Why the excessive verbiage if not to obfuscate with excessive detail?

        As for Chossudovsky, I’m not surprised that he fell out of favor with you (like Chomsky, I might add) due to his emphasis on imperial aggression which doesn’t conform to your lifelong bias that skullduggery by “the lobby” explains practically everything. As for the LaRouchie article you mention, I am unaware of it. Because of the LaRouchies involvement with the 911 Truth movement, I suspect that you are on more intimate terms with these people than I am. In any event, Chossudovsky’s analysis comes much closer to explaining the facts on the ground than that of some de facto defenders of empire. Many of his observations are supported by others. For example, Ted Snider (Zmail) noted that “Seymour Hersh reported as far back as 2006 that American “clandestine activities” were taking place inside Iran. Hersh said that “teams of American combat troops have been ordered into Iran, under cover, to collect targeting data and to establish contact with anti-government ethnic-minority groups”.

        Speaking of the facts on the ground, you seem quite dismissive of empirical reality which doesn’t conform with you worldview. The empire attacked and invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, encourage Israel to invade Lebanon in 2006, with NATO attacked Libya and supported “rebels” who rode to victory on empire’s coat tails, is involved in covert military operations in Somalia and Yemen, and is trying to destabilize Syria and Iran. Additionally, Wall Street is attacking the economies of Iceland, Greece, Ireland, and probably Italy, Spain and Portugal. The Euro is failing and the World is sliding into a controlled depression designed to facilitate structural adjustment. We have between 750 and 1000 military bases globally, with a skyrocketing defense budget. Since the dollar is the worlds reserve currency, money isn’t a problem in the short term. The Project for a New American Century is being implemented full steam ahead. Yes, Jeffrey, there is an empire. No, Jeffrey, it is not being run out of Tel Aviv. And yes, Israel is an integral part of empire. And yes, the Zionists have inordinate influence, possibly on Wall Street as well, but I don’t know about that. What we are seeing in the Middle East, therefore, is the implementation of imperial geo-strategy, albeit one heavily influenced by Israel.

      • Jeffrey Blankfort
        January 16, 2012, 12:02 pm

        Keith, you ask, “Why the rancor over my comment that Israel has historically performed covert operations for the US which the empire didn’t want to be associated with?” Because, Keith, there is no evidence that these were done “for the US,” and not for Israel’s own interests.

        You continue the same misreading of reality when you buy into the Chomskyist line that Israel attacked Lebanon in 2006 because it was “encouraged” to do so by the US. Israel launched that war for its own reasons and did not need the US to encourage it although, the administration, through Condi Rice, was publicly cheerleading for it in the fine tradition of Washington’s bending over to kiss Israel’s behind.

        As for Chussodovsky, when someone plays fast and loose with the facts, as he does, I don’t pay much attention to his analysis. I have heard him interviewed a number of times of KPFA in Berkeley and for me he has come to define the term, “bloviator.” He is even more full of himself than Tom Friedman.

        PNAC, BTW, was a neocon operation from the getgo and I should have no need to tell you who were its prime movers and what country’s interests they represented. Their control over the US media might explain why PNAC’s existence was hidden from Americans and had to be revealed by the Scottish Morning Herald, thanks, apparently, to anti-Zionist activists in Glasgow who have gone beyond the kind of disinformation that Chomsky has been peddling and that, like Koolaid, you are still happily imbibing. (If Chomsky has ever mentioned PNAC, the Washington Inst. for Near East Policy, or the American Enterprise Inst., and their influence over US Middle East policy, I am not aware of it. )

        You do seem to be making some progress at the end when you admit that US policy is “heavily influenced by Israel,” so there is still hope that you may come to see that while both countries have evil agendas, they are not identical.

      • Keith
        January 16, 2012, 6:45 pm

        JEFFREY BLANKFORT- I don’t feel like responding to everything you say, however, I would like to clear up the issue of the 2006 Lebanon invasion. First of all, I did not say that Israel attacked Lebanon BECAUSE the US encouraged it to do so, I said that the US encouraged the Israeli invasion which it supported.

        According to Wayne Madsen, “The current (2006) Israeli assault on Lebanon was stage-managed between the government of Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and neocons in the Bush administration, according to well-connected sources in the nation’s capital. The Bush administration had prior knowledge of and supported Israel’s planned attacks on Gaza and Lebanon, the sources have revealed.” link to miami.indymedia.org

        In a video, Norman Finkelstein says both the US and Israel were involved in the planning, singling out Bush for primary responsibility. Elsewhere, Finkelstein has asserted that Hassan Nasrallah holds the US jointly responsible.
        link to youtube.com

        Finally, noted Chomskyite Uri Avnery had this to say:
        “In order to understand why the war broke out, the question is not who profited from it in practice. The decisive question is: who would have profited from the enterprise if it had succeeded as planned?

        The one who stood to gain the most was the President of the United States. George Bush was already stuck in the Iraqi quagmire. He desperately needed a success in the Middle East.”
        link to robertjprince.wordpress.com

      • Jeffrey Blankfort
        January 16, 2012, 11:18 pm

        Sorry, Keith, but I don’t see how an Israeli victory over Hezbollah would have been seen as a success for Bush or enhanced the US position in the region and simply because Finkelstein or Wayne Madsen say that the US was involved in the planning does not make it so.

        When there was fighting at the Palestinian refugee camp of Nahr al-Barad near Tripoli in northern Lebanon in 2007, Madsen stated as fact that the attack on the camp was part of a US plan to set up an air base there which anyone who understood the situation in Lebanon, which Madsen apparently did not, would know that was nonsense.

        Apparently, Debka was his source as it is for a number of the mistakes that Chussodovsky routinely makes. Debka is a website with close ties to Israeli intelligence and it specializes in putting out a mix of fact with disinformation, much like does Gordon Duff at Veterans Today.

        Thanks to the influence of the Zionist establishment in Washington, Hezbollah has been described as a “terrorist” menace to the US and was even once described as the “A team of terrorism” by Richard Armitage. It should be noted that the US and Israel and its lackeys in Canada are unique in viewing Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

        Despite the best efforts of their respective Zionist establishments to classify them that way, all of the European countries and the rest of the world have refused to do so.. Avnery acknowledges that in the article you cited in which he notes that shortly after the ceasefire, Hezbollah was invited by Sarkosy to attend an all-Lebanon conference designed to settle the country’s problems.

      • Citizen
        January 14, 2012, 4:41 pm

        Historians agree that Israel has been assassinating foreigners it does not like since it was born in 1948. The enmeshment of Israelis and dual loyalty jews in our government has morphed traditional Amerian values into Israeli values; the tail really does wag the big goy dog.

    • Avi_G.
      January 13, 2012, 11:49 pm

      If that is your assessment, they you have very little understanding of the power dynamics between the two parties, Israel and the US. Need I elaborate?

      • Jeffrey Blankfort
        January 14, 2012, 12:26 am

        Avi, I have been studying and documenting the Israel-US relationship for many years and I have more than enough information in my files to back up every allegation I make about that relationship. If you disagree with my analysis, fine, but please tell me where what I wrote to Keith was wrong. Yes, you do need to elaborate.

      • Avi_G.
        January 14, 2012, 8:35 am

        Jeffrey,

        My post was directed at Keith. I should have either quoted him or addressed him by name to avoid this misunderstanding. Mea Culpa.

      • Jeffrey Blankfort
        January 14, 2012, 3:38 pm

        Got it, Avi. I admit your post was surprising. Given that different people are posting at the same time we are, we never are sure exactly where our post is going to land,

      • Keith
        January 14, 2012, 7:12 pm

        AVI_G- “If that is your assessment, they you have very little understanding of the power dynamics between the two parties, Israel and the US. Need I elaborate?”

        Perhaps a review of the global power dynamics is in order. Let us begin with what should be obvious, but is repeatedly ignored. The US is a capitalist “democracy.” In other words, capital rules. Those who control the flow of large amounts of money have the real power and call the shots. Currently, the most powerful economic sector is financial, Wall Street effectively runs the empire. The function of government under this system is to manage the country and empire in such a way as to achieve elite objectives. Neither Barack Obama nor Benyamin Netanyahu have the freedom of action you imagine.

        With this in mind, the notion that the tail wags the dog implies that Wall Street takes its marching orders from Israel, a notion that I find ludicrous. While AIPAC is indeed influential, I seriously doubt that it would get in a confrontation with Wall Street or the military-industrial complex. Obviously, war-mongering appeals to both sectors and they get along quite well. You should be aware, however, that imperial power seeking is not a consequence of Israeli interference. No doubt they exert an influence over US Middle East policy, but the notion of a reluctant empire being dragged into these conflicts isn’t credible. I seriously doubt that Bibi Netanyahu has significant influence over the likes of Lloyd Blankfein or Jamie Dimon.

        The empire is in a period of transition, attempting to utilize full spectrum dominance to lock in imperial control into the twenty-first century. A new empire based as much on financial control as military. The US is currently engaged in an effort to eliminate potential rivals for planetary dominance, to militarily crush the weaker ones such as Iran and their smaller allies, and to gain absolute control over vital resources such as oil and natural gas so as to keep Russia and China dependent upon US favor. In this regard, the empire is currently engaged in various stages of military action in over 7 countries- Iraq, Afghanistan (Pakistan?), Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Syria and Iran, and is shifting forces to the Far East to threaten China. The imperial leviathan is on a rampage. If things go as planned, Israeli elites will likely benefit. If thing go seriously awry, none of us may survive to argue about it.

        While I am at it, let me recommend a book many will find informative. “The Global Economic Crisis: The Great Depression of the XXI Century,” Michel Chossudovsky and Andrew Gavin Marshall, Editors. A couple of quotes:

        “We are not dealing with a narrowly defined economic crisis or recession. The global financial architecture sustains strategic and national security objectives. In turn, the US-NATO military agenda serves to endorse a powerful business elite which relentlessly overshadows and undermines the civilian government.

        Underlying these military agreements, a cohesive US-NATO-Israel military axis has emerged. This powerful alliance is dominated by Washington. The Pentagon ultimately controls the overall process of military decision making to the extent that neither Israel nor a NATO member state can undertake a separate military without the Pentagon’s green light. Moreover, since 2009, Israel’s air defense system is integrated into that of the US and NATO.”

      • homingpigeon
        January 15, 2012, 1:52 am

        In reply to all you Habibis discussing the power dynamics between the Washington regime and Israel — the mention of dogs and tails and wagging reminds of of a friend who owns a pit bull. It’s an expensive one that wants lots of food and makes lots of demands on my friend. He uses the pit bull to intimidate other people but this pit bull has a mind of its own and often goes off and and attacks other people which is why my friend is not so popular. People argue about whether the pit bull or the owner of the pit bull is at fault every time this dog goes rogue. They even get annoyed with each other in the debate. This pit bull, for all the food and pampering from my friend, has even been known to attack my friend himself but this guy loves his pit bull so much he insisted to everyone that it was an honest misunderstanding on the part of the dear dog, his only reliable friend and ally.

    • Donald
      January 14, 2012, 7:14 pm

      “They have been doing this for a long time. I am very suspicious of any “leak” from unnamed officials which tends to absolve Uncle Sam from some covert operation.”

      In general I’d agree with you, but here I’m not so sure. Why absolve the US and then blame Israel? Why wouldn’t they just claim that this bunch of terrorists acted independently and neither we nor Israel had anything to do with it? For instance, did the US in 1982 openly admit that the Israelis were helping the Guatemalans commit genocide and did it on their own? No–the Reagan Administration consistently downplayed and whitewashed what its Central American allies were doing and I for one only knew about the Israeli connection from reading Amnesty International reports (and maybe Chomsky, but I can’t recall offhand). That’s the sort of lie I would expect when the US and Israel are acting together to support some murderous group.
      Here there is a falling out between them.

      • Keith
        January 15, 2012, 7:00 pm

        DONALD- The intent seems to be to create the impression that Uncle Sam is some sort of innocent bystander, even as we seek to provoke an Iranian response which can be misrepresented as a provocation requiring a massive US military response. Because the Iranians are aware of our terrorist activities, they could logically retaliate. By distancing ourselves from these activities, we can hoodwink the American people into believing that the crazy Mullahs have unjustifiably attacked us. How many people are aware of the full stary of US provocations leading up to Pearl Harbor?

    • VR
      January 15, 2012, 2:23 am

      Keith, you do not have to get into a long drawn out futile verbal battle with Mr. Blankfort and others. There are just some issues that some people do not want to believe in regard to their “precious” country, when even the slightest bit of common sense shows that the US always uses scapegoats to get its war on – there are literally miles of files in regard to the practice. I swear, some of these actors in the bowels of the empire should win an Oscar. All you have to post is one link, and leave it at that –

      THE TRUTH ABOUT THE USA USING INTERMEDIARIES

      The cause of war is always the other guys fault (other nations fault), and countries stand in line to be smeared and rewarded richly for their service, including Israel for the imperial beast.

  3. NorthOfFortyNine
    January 13, 2012, 6:04 pm

    Alex: Nice to see this get bumped. As for Israelis pissing off others for using their passports, don’t forget about the canadian incident: link to en.wikipedia.org

    And then there was the time Mossad tried to pilfer the New Zealand passport:

    link to en.wikipedia.org

    The Israelis apologize and say they will never do it again and oh it was a big mistake.

    Then they go do it again. They are sociopaths. -N49.

    ps — Does eee now understand why so many people hate his “shitty little country”? -N49.

  4. irena
    January 13, 2012, 6:19 pm

    It really was a shocking article and it is such vital stuff that our media establishment continues to ignore.

  5. seafoid
    January 13, 2012, 6:21 pm

    “Israel is running fast to kill any chance of of a diplomatic solution to the standoff over Iran”

    Iran is not going to be dragged into a war. They know that nuclear weapons will end Israeli hegemony forever. Sumud is the name of the game. Don’t forget that the US doesn’t have the money for another drawn out war. Iraq took 6 years. Afghanistan is going on 11 years. $3 trillion would have done wonders for social securtity and health care in the US. It is all linked.

    Last year the UK flew a “senior Taliban negotiator” to London for secret backchannel talks. He was a fake. That is how badly the West does wars in the Middle East.

    Israel has nothing to offer the West. A few years ago a french diplomat called it “that sh###y little country”. More and more people are coming around to the view.

    • pabelmont
      January 14, 2012, 1:00 pm

      Seafoid: As to USA not having money for another war: A believable economic report says that Iran and China and India and Japan are planning to (or have already) changed from DOLLAR-payments for oil to another “reserve currency” (EURO, YUAN, GOLD). This means (the report says) that various countries which have been happy to hold dollars are or will soon be less willing, and our debt will change from being ridiculous to being unsupportable (my take).

      So the USA’s blather about Iran and nukes and regime change may be about reversing this move away from the dollar rather than about human rights (ho hmm) or nukes (ho hum again, Pakistan, Israel, India have nukes, why not Iran?).

      • dumvitaestspesest
        January 14, 2012, 1:18 pm

        You maybe very correct ,pablemont.
        Whatever reasons are, they will push for this war with all their diabolical Might.

  6. ToivoS
    January 13, 2012, 6:22 pm

    The big story is not that Israel has been playing the US for a fool for decades now but why did this story get leaked at this time. These “intelligence” sources knew this story since 2006. The big story is that it could be evidence that Obama might be waking up as to the dangerous situation Iran has become.

    It is difficult to ignore the timing which is just days after the act of terrorism in Tehran. I think this leak was orchestrated at the highest levels of the administration. I have repeatedly argued that Obama genuinely is not interested in going to war against Iran. He has, however, been acting very foolishly in playing the tough guy and letting tensions mount. This latest act of terrorism plus the Iranian naval games and threats last week has probably shaken up the administration and forced them to realize that wars can happen even if the principles do not want a war.

    If this line of conjecture is correct it shows the extent that our government is willing to go to distance ourselves from Israel. That would not just be big news but good news. It certainly is a message that has been received in Tel Aviv loud and clear. I think it is also good news in that it puts Israel in the spotlight and is going to make it much more difficult for her and her neocon allies to pressure the US into going to war.

    This story is big in another way: it says US intelligence believes that Israel is behind the assassination of Ahmadi-Roshan and it is willing to publicly out the Israel’s. This isn’t the primary reason, but it is clearly a price the Administration is willing to pay to control Israel’s actions in its desire to see the US go war with Iran.

    • American
      January 13, 2012, 9:24 pm

      Anti-US Chants as Slain Iran Nuclear Expert Buried
      TIME – ‎9 hours ago‎

      11, 2012 (TEHRAN, Iran) – Thousands of mourners chanted “Death to Israel” and “Death to America” on Friday during the funeral of a slain nuclear expert whom Iranian officials accuse the two nations of killing in a bomb blast this week as part of a …”

      • ToivoS
        January 13, 2012, 10:53 pm

        Yep American. That is the problem with Israel. Even if we are not responsible, the rest of the world will think we are. That is why this story is important — the US is telling the rest of the world that Nooo, it is Israel that has done this, not us (meaning the US). This is something new. At some level our government is trying to let the rest of the world known that we are not responsible for Israel’s crazy reactions. It is a subtle message but it one that I think is significant. Hopefully this message will grow to the point that Israel will be on its own without relying on unquestioning US support.

        BTW, I am an optimist and maybe my perspectives are just unrealistic dreams.

      • American
        January 13, 2012, 11:55 pm

        T-
        I am a pessimist when it comes to zionist and Israel. These are seriously seriously stupid and delusional people. Stupid people are the most dangerous.
        True, some DC figures are trying to out Israel and this leak is significant but Israel has survived many outings and thinks they will survive any and all outings because they’ve never been punished for any of them in any real way.
        Watch for O and Isr spokespeople to spin this as false. I hope O and the Israelis try to spin it as a real CIA deal they send the Mossad and not Mossads doing alone, because if Isr does, the ‘current’ CIA , not former CIA will have the knives out after them.

      • dahoit
        January 14, 2012, 1:39 pm

        Ah,is it the Ron Paul factor that has loosened the lips of our foggy bottomed morons?
        Hip hip hooray for Dr.Ron Paul!

      • ToivoS
        January 16, 2012, 2:32 am

        Dahoit when you firs posted this I just figured you were just another partison for Paul. But on reflection it makes more sense. Should Paul run in a third party, it seems possible that Paul would take more votes from Obama than from the Repubs. Surely Obama’s people realize this danger.

    • iamuglow
      January 14, 2012, 12:44 am

      That it was leaked is telling.

      Also the bit about Obama stopping some intellegence sharing with Israel, which Bush, even his last days when he knew about this didnt do, fills in another puzzle piece.

      Maybe all the rhetoric about Obama being anti-Israel wasn’t just based on his call for the settlement freeze? Maybe it was also because behind the scenes he was ‘punishing’ Israel for impersonating CIA agents?

      • rensanceman
        January 14, 2012, 12:08 pm

        The latest assassination should not be surprising coming from this lunatic state. Remember the USS Liberty incident when unmarked planes and boats attacked the defenseless ship during the 1967 pre-emptive war. 37 Americans were killed and when a mayday call went out for help, Secretary of defense McNamara recalled the rescue planes. When the Admiral countermanded that order to resend the rescue planes, President Johnson personally got on the phone and told the Admiral: “I want that ship and every damn sailor sent to the bottom. I will not embarrass our ally Israel.” Hehad not been informed that Israel was the culprit.

      • dahoit
        January 14, 2012, 1:50 pm

        Yeah sure, billions more in weaponry,UN vetoes,and sending thousands of US troops, unnecessarily, to the most militant nation in the region was and is punishment?sheesh.
        Obomba is lighter than air,a feather in the Ziowind.

      • Jeffrey Blankfort
        January 14, 2012, 4:10 pm

        Indeed, iamuglow, Obama went so far to punish Israel for Cast Lead when he came into office that he sent it a carton of bunker buster bombs that Bush had refused to do. Believe me, it wasn’t him and I am sure he is upset about it…the leak, that is, more than what the Izzies did.

        There are others in the Pentagon and the CIA who are outraged at Washington’s subservience to Israel but who can’t “come out” as did Baer, Giraldi, the Christisons, McGovern, et al, when they left the agency and it is more likely that it was one of them, not one of that cowering crowd in the White House.

      • iamuglow
        January 14, 2012, 6:52 pm

        Clearly Obama has been as Pro-Israel as they come. My point was that hasn’t stopped Bibi and the Republicans from smearing him as not a friend of Israel…ha.ha..

        Is that because of his aborted push to freeze settlements? A way box him and push further to the right? A way for Republicans to pull in campgain donors…Or does it also have something to do with this new info (to me) thats he scaled back intellegence sharing when he came into office?

        Maybe all of the above.

  7. Ramzi Jaber
    January 13, 2012, 6:27 pm

    After the recent terrorist act and murder of yet another Iranian citizen in the sovereign republic of Iran a few days back, I was extremely puzzled as to why Hillary and Panetta and other sources categorically and firmly stated that the US had nothing to do with this or any other murder or act of terrorism in Iran.

    True, under US law political assassinations are illegal and the “US does not engage in acts of terror to combat terror” (not sure about this last point given Iraq and Afghanistan, but that’s for another time). Why, then, such a vehement denial of any involvement?

    Now it all becomes clear. With the murderous mossad and the terrorist zionist regime playing a dangerous clandestine game to force the US to hit Iran, the US needed to tell Iran that they did not do this. The last thing Obama wants now is another war, a war that is driven by US zionists for the sake of the zionist criminal state of israel.

    A strong denial of involvement in that murder, coupled with this leak pointing the finger at mossad stealing US passports and identities, Obama hopes to keep things from blowing up between the US and Iran. If they are to blow up, let them blow up with israel. israel should be left alone to deal with the consequences of the zionist conniving and meddling…. oh, the snake that is israel, stabbing its close and only ally in the back. Keep your enemies close and your allies closer. LOL.

    • Carllarc
      January 13, 2012, 10:07 pm

      Ramzi Jaber and ToivoS,

      this all leads one to wonder how Netanyahu/Israel is going to spin this and how will this all affect Israel’s behavior?

    • Ramzi Jaber
      January 14, 2012, 10:32 am

      Israeli official: Report of Mossad agents posing as CIA spies ‘absolute nonsense’
      link to haaretz.com

      This is totally expected given the enormity of this bombshell earthquake-grade revelation…

      but…

      Iran: We have evidence U.S. killed nuclear scientist in Tehran
      link to haaretz.com

      if THIS is true, it’s a HUMONGOUS game changer even giving Iran the right to attack American civilians in the US (which they are too smart to do so they won’t).

      WOW, talk about ratcheting up the danger loop… This onion has still many layers left to peel!

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 10:35 am

        ramzi, iran has accused the US, israel and the UK.

      • Ramzi Jaber
        January 14, 2012, 10:44 am

        Yes they did, Annie. But if there is evidence of CIA involvement, even if it was mossad masquerading as CIA, this will surely heat things up between Iran and the US.

        Of course, the zionist backers in the US including fundamentalist christians will not allow any deterioration in relations with israel. Even Obama will not… election year or not since he already shackled himself big time with his repeated “unshakeable support” nonsense. How dumb can one be???

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 11:33 am

        i don’t know ramzi, i find it hard to fathom there isn’t cooperation between the US and israel wrt destabilizing iran. not saying i think we were specifically involved in this assassination but the levels of cooperation seem very thick to me. for example, wrt the recent spy bust up in lebanon, hezbollah (who was working in cooperation w/other lebanese factions breaking up the israeli spy rings resulting in hundreds of lost contacts) reported our spies were working out of the embassy there recruiting local spies and then delivering to israeli contacts, iow basically operating as conduits for israeli interests. not sure how accurate that is but it wouldn’t surprise me either. so perhaps both narratives are true. perhaps the mossad did recruit agents to impersonate the cia without the knowledge of the administration behind our backs while the US, during the bush admin was simultaneously working with jundullah or members of the group. i don’t know. but the US is for sure working with baluch separatists in the same way we are affiliated and working w/kurdish separatists which includes the pkk/pjak even tho we allegedly reject them when they become inconvenient.

        Of course, the zionist backers in the US including fundamentalist christians will not allow any deterioration in relations with israel.

        i am sure that will be their intent but contrary to popular opinion what the zionists backers ‘will allow’ is not the extent of potential possible outcome.

      • Ramzi Jaber
        January 14, 2012, 11:55 am

        I agree with you Annie.

        Funny thing when I was growing up, I would always hear my parents and grandparents point to israel when something happens… for example, a suspicious attack that results in israel attacking back much disproportionately or to gain ground advantage or to settle and colonize and steal more Palestinian land. Or when Hamas was created by Israel. Even engineering attacks on Jews (in occupied Palestine or abroad) to further their criminal cause. Etc. Etc. I always thought that was a stretch.

        Now, with some years of wisdom behind me and proof from various incidents recent and otherwise (e.g. attack on Liberty), I firmly believe that my parents and grandparents were absolutely right.

        The criminal zionist state has always been dishonest and is continually conniving and will do whatever it must to further its theft and colonization of Palestine at any cost, damn its “friends” or allies (ally actually, US) or anyone else.

        As my parents and grandparents would go on to say: history is measured in hundreds of years not hundreds of days or weeks, and those standing on just grounds and principles will always prevail. I hope they are right. One thing that makes me believe so is that us Arabs are a truly patient bunch… maybe it’s the desert thing! LOL…

      • pabelmont
        January 14, 2012, 1:10 pm

        If MOSSAD does sometimes pretend to be CIA, it might well have done so here. Wonder how Iran could tell the difference? Like to know their thinking.

        Far, far more than that, I’d like the USA to take a dramatic step — well beyond mere talk — to distance itself not only from cooperation with sirael but from responsibility for supporting Israel in its crimes against the Palestinians.

      • Kathleen
        January 14, 2012, 5:16 pm

        Baer and plenty of others saying not the first time Mossad has done this. Not just a bunch of no nothings saying this

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 5:50 pm

        yeah ramzi, i think your parents and grandparents were probably right too.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 5:55 pm

        If MOSSAD does sometimes pretend to be CIA, it might well have done so here. Wonder how Iran could tell the difference? Like to know their thinking.

        spies and operatives work in cells pabelmont. it stands to reason people who study those cells get to know the varying operatives and patterns. so tug one string and it leads to another and another and there you have it.

        i would like to watch this confession, it was just pulled from youtube

        link to shabbir.hassanally.net

        i watched another video of confession from the jundullah guy a while ago..i could go try to dig it up. i think they interviewed his brother too.

        edit, here it is: link to youtube.com

        so, they gather info like this, of course you never know how much is true, if any under these circumstances. and he’s dead now..but they follow the leads and i imagine have methods of confirmation.

        the end of this has some analysis

      • MRW
        January 16, 2012, 12:22 am

        Annie your first link now has the confession, or parts of it from PressTV:

        But the article is from 2011, not 2012. It was a previous assassination.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 16, 2012, 1:07 am

        that is correct mrw, it is the confession of Abdolmalek Rigi, the leader of jundullah before he was captured and executed in 2010

        link to en.wikipedia.org

        the second link:”In July 2010, Iranian nuclear physics scientist Massoud Ali-Mohammadi was killed when a remote-controlled bomb detonated near his house in the north of the Iranian capital, Tehran.

        Via link to shabbir.hassanally.net

      • MRW
        January 15, 2012, 4:24 pm

        Ramzi, I smell the back channel perspiration on this. Iran accuses the US (Iran needs to for public opinion). The US cancels the exercises as a public gesture (needed the Iranian accusation). Etcetera. Etcetera. Etcetera. We’re in theatre mode of racheting this thing down. Our military and intel are pissed, and are updating the Retired Ones, who are being called into action to get the info out.

  8. upsidedownism
    January 13, 2012, 6:46 pm

    The whole story is not a bit surprising and encapsulates how Israel uses the USA for its purposes in general.

    Israel is both a strategic and moral liability for the United States. If the US Navy was used in accordance with American values, Obama would be contemplating using it to break the existing naval Israeli naval blockade of Gaza rather than a theoretical Iranian blockade of the Persian Gulf.

  9. MRW
    January 13, 2012, 6:47 pm

    Gordon Duff at veteranstoday.com has been saying this about Jundallah for two years. Pakistan has been trying to curb these Pakistani terrorists to no avail. Israel is turning out to be flat-out evil. I’ll bet this will bring out a lot of other US intel and military sources, spilling the beans.

    Edit: nice report, Alex.

    • irena
      January 13, 2012, 8:05 pm

      Has Pakistan been trying to do so? As the article suggests, they did hand over a member to Iran back in 2010 but I would think they would be trying harder so that their relations with Iran do not deteriorate.

    • Jeffrey Blankfort
      January 14, 2012, 4:28 pm

      Gordon Duff is not a reliable source for anything, MRW, because he has a tendency to mix truth with fiction that ends up delegitimizing the former. When I have called him on some of his nonsense, his response was to accuse me on the Kevin Barrett radio program of being “a spokesperson for Israel. Duff openly brags of his close ties with both US and British intelligence and admits to having “defense contracts” in Afghanistan.

      In December, 2010, he wrote an article justifying Israel’s attack on the USS Liberty on the basis that Israel justly feared that Pres. Johnson was about to attack its Dimona nuclear facility. Just think about that for a moment. Here was the most pro-Israel president yet, in the pocket of the Israel Lobbyists of the time, reportedly sharing a bed with a beautiful former Mossadnik, Matilda Krim, wife of big Jewish donor, Arthur Krim, maybe even the night of the attack–he supposedly awakened her to tell her about it, and if he had wanted to bomb Israel, the attack on the Liberty would have justified it.

      Early last year he wrote an article in which he confused Hamas with Hezbollah which was a major good because his article was based on “the fact” that Hamas didn’t need tunnels to get their weapons since they got them from Syria right across the border. When I wrote him a friendly note telling him of his error, he sloughed it off, saying it would keep his readers on their toes. That kind of “mistake” is not acceptable on the part of a “former” intelligence operative.

      I could go on but you get the idea.

      • Jeffrey Blankfort
        January 14, 2012, 4:33 pm

        MRW, one more thing, before even the first document was released, he claimed that Wikileaks was a Mossad operation and he wrote a couple of articles in which not a single thing he wrote was backed by the facts. The most comical? That Julian Assange and Bradley Manning had a homosexual relationship when there is no record of the two ever having met one another.

        Why did he do that? Because Wikileaks’ main target was the US government and its wars on Iraq and Afghanistan and Duff’s “job,” as I see it, was to discredit it from the very beginning.

      • MRW
        January 15, 2012, 4:07 pm

        Jeffrey, I know what you’re saying about Duff. Apparently many complained about the sloppy writing and non sequitur assertions and he now has an editor. I stopped reading him for a while because of it–like the Hamas thing you mention; stuff like that drives me nutz: reread the goddam thing–nevertheless, but I’m back reading him now. Everything I take as ‘duly noted’ and do my own checking and research. And you know what they say about clocks….

        I got caught up in the Wikileaks story but not because of VT. Cryptome (John Young) had complaints about Assange, and John withdrew his support. Phil suggested to me that it might be professional jealousy on Young’s part, but I was not ready to buy that because of dealings I had with Young in the mid-90s–I contacted him about a story that I had some corroborating info about, work I did that involved the NSA–and his careful grilling of my sources impressed me. I’m a source docs kind of person, and a pattern-connecting puzzle solver (reason why I like Adam Curtis films, he does both with the vast BBC 84-year media library at his disposal). Young also clicks along unobtrusively with his Cryptome site, collecting the most amazing trove of stuff that I re-purchase every few years on DVD to keep up and preserve, but I remember when he had SWAT teams in the 90s taking his computers away until he figured out to mirror everything. That happened more than once at his Upper West Side townhouse.

        Anyway, points taken.

        Edit

        I remember that USS Liberty article. I thought what he was saying was that it was Israel’s excuse that it feared Johnson was going to attack Dimona. I’ve never read anything other than disgust from him at Israel for attacking the USS Liberty in any article. But I’ll keep an eye out for it.

      • Jeffrey Blankfort
        January 16, 2012, 12:06 pm

        Go back and read the USS Liberty article. It seemed to be he was accepting Israel’s tale which I had never heard before because, as I suspect, Duff created it out of whole cloth. I could go on with more about him but not publicly.

  10. seanmcbride
    January 13, 2012, 6:59 pm

    “It’s as if Israel wants to be shunned as a pariah state.”

    Hasn’t it already substantially succeeded in that objective?

    The main question: why aren’t Diaspora Jews more alarmed at the damage that the Israeli government is doing to their “brand” (their reputation)? Some are, but not nearly enough. Israel is dragging them along in its wake.

  11. RoHa
    January 13, 2012, 7:12 pm

    This is a surprise?

    ‘those who wondered “just whose side these guys [in Israel] are on” ‘

    Just their own. Not yours.

  12. Les
    January 13, 2012, 7:13 pm

    It’s reasonable to accept that the US media will do their usual best and ignore this. Imagine if a real reporter questioned Panetta, Clinton, and Obama about this! What will people in other countries think when they see that there is no official response from Washington?

    • ToivoS
      January 13, 2012, 7:40 pm

      Well the Israeli press is not ignoring this. First story in Haaretz within hours after Perry published.

      • Avi_G.
        January 13, 2012, 11:54 pm

        ToivoS,

        The only reason the story is being published in the Israeli press is because the Israeli regime is interested in boasting and bragging about its power and the stranglehold it has on the US.

        Otherwise, the military sensor would have blocked this publication and you wouldn’t have heard a peep about it.

      • ToivoS
        January 14, 2012, 12:51 am

        Avi you bring up many interesting points. I do not recall challenging some of your more outrageous claims (normally, they are too close to the truth) but this time I think my read is more accurate. Time will tell.

      • LeaNder
        January 14, 2012, 8:59 am

        Avi_G.

        I have been wondering if the “boasting and bragging about its power” is in fact the most important part of Israel’s Iron Wall image: power, strength, deterrence.

        But what comes to mind in this context are the multitude of rumors about antisemitism in the CIA -radom pick-; and the attempted wedding of Anti-Semitism and Anti-Americanism, in Europe and beyond.with it’s special brand of Bush era hubris. I wonder if these topics surface in the coming debate. Obama himself is considered Anti-American by e.g. The American Thinker, as I do not doubt at least they will go down that lane.

      • American
        January 14, 2012, 3:47 pm

        Interesting LeaNder, that you should link to the Adam Ciralsky case as possible CIA anti semitism regarding this latest news on Mossad.

        I happen to know a great deal about that case. which came to my attention becuase after Ciralsky was dismissed from the CIA and then took a job as a producer at CBS, he was also involved/suspected in the CBS news announcment of the FBI investigation of AIPAC. It was suspected Ciralsky used fellow travelers within one agency or another to leak the investigation to him which was a closely guarded,not for public view investigation.
        The CBS news story cut short the wider FBI investigation of AIPAC (according to the FBI) because the leak exposed Franklin as their source and made him no longer useful. So that one news story busted up any on going investigation along the lines the FBI was following.
        I won’t bore others with a dozen links to the Ciralsky case and only say that slim to no chance that Ciralsky was innocent of reasons he was discharged for by the CIA.

        The basics of the case:

        link to mail-archive.com

        CIA Says Lawyer Failed Polygraph Tests About Israel
        Was Allegedly Asked If He Gave Away U.S. Secrets
        Feb. 7, 2000

        WASHINGTON (AP) — A lawyer who claims he was fired by the CIA because of anti-Semitism says he may sue the spy agency. In a television interview, Adam Ciralsky said it was “a matter of principle.”

        However, a CIA memo says Ciralsky failed a pair of lie-detector tests about
        whether he gave or sold U.S. secrets “to an Israeli national.”

        Clearance revoked

        Ciralsky, 28, of Milwaukee, joined the spy agency in December 1996 as a
        contract employee in the Office of General Counsel. By the following October, he’d been placed on unpaid leave. His top-secret security clearance was revoked in July 1998, and he was fired in late 1999.

        Ciralsky aired his complaints against the agency Sunday night on CBS’ 60
        Minutes.

        “The idea that I’m guilty of a lack of candor is ludicrous,” he said. But a
        network interviewer said Ciralsky acknowledged off camera that in a series of polygraphs and interrogations he often challenged the questions and quibbled about legalities.

        Possible ties to Israeli intelligence

        The agency said it acted against Ciralsky because he did not fully reveal a
        relationship with two people holding dual U.S.-Israeli citizenship, both
        employees of Israeli defense firms with possible ties to Israeli
        intelligence.

        Bill Harlow, CIA public affairs director, disputed Ciralsky’s allegations of
        anti-Semitism. He said the allegations had been reviewed by the agency’s
        inspector general, by several congressional panels and by a citizens’ review
        group.

        The memorandum about Ciralsky’s case, first reported Sunday by The Washington Post, was written by Alan Wade, the CIA’s associate deputy director for security.

        Compromising secret info?

        The memo said Ciralsky failed two polygraph examinations. The questions he was asked, Wade wrote, were about “deliberately compromising U.S. government classified information to an Israeli national, accepting compensation from an Israeli national in exchange for U.S. government classified information, and deliberately concealing from the U.S. government a relationship with an Israeli national.”

        The CIA’s Harlow refused to discuss the memo Sunday. He said the agency had been willing to publicly discuss details of Ciralsky’s case, but that his
        lawyers had blocked them from doing so by invoking the Privacy Act.”

        Further notice that while the CIA was willing to talk about everything in the case, Ciralsky’s lawyers won’t let the CIA put the details of what they had out in public.
        Ciralsky has appealed this thru every court and had his appeal thrown out by every court. But the fact that he is not a guy with big bucks yet spent very big bucks hounding the CIA indicates this was a “group” financed effort to use the usual anti semitism charge for what was in fact a real ‘for cause’ dismissal of a Jew.
        There was more detail in the actual CIA charge than this if anyone wants to look up the court documents.

      • Citizen
        January 14, 2012, 5:00 pm

        The American Thinker & ilk do think Obama is anti-American because he is so biased towards Israel he puts it first always, but because they think Obama is not anti-Muslim enough, or actually think too Obama is a Muslim. Terrorism is never thought by these folks to come from Israel or AIPAC, but always from Arabs.

      • Les
        January 14, 2012, 10:54 am

        A Saturday January 14 story for:
        Haaretz

        Not a story for: [Conincientally, lots of news about US threats against Iran]
        New York Times
        Washington Post
        Newsday
        NPR
        Financial Times
        Guardian
        Independent (London)

    • irena
      January 13, 2012, 8:06 pm

      Exactly! I get that this seems like a well-planned leak but will the mainstream media address it?

    • American
      January 13, 2012, 11:59 pm

      I imagine Lee Smith will be asking Nuland some questions on it at the State Dept press breifing.
      Can’t wait to hear it.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        January 14, 2012, 12:55 am

        Eah, she will answer typically: “that’s all I can say” ,
        “Maaaatt, stop asking me those questions”, “do you think I’m the oracle of Delphi?” ,”I know what I know, and I know what I can tell” .
        “Oh, I hate all those non-brainwashed yet journalists, where do they come from?”

      • FreddyV
        January 14, 2012, 7:02 am

        Ah, she’ll just turn it off by making accusations of polemics. Then it’ll be:

        ‘Next question?’

    • iamuglow
      January 14, 2012, 1:00 am

      Google news does a decent job and grouping news stories.

      This story is very sparse so far. Compared to other stories that get repeated in hundreds or thousands of sources, this one has 24 now.

      Gawker ran it which was good exposure, then RT, Press, Al Jazera, AP has one story, HuffPost, Israeli papers, some progressive sites…there was something on Yahoo that stressed calling it a ‘false flag’ which obscured that Mossad was impersonating/pretending to be CIA agents.

      I don’t think any of the major US news sites have picked it up. The only story I saw on the news on TV was about Iranian speedboats ‘threatening’ US war ships. I wonder if it will be reported…It is important story that could at least make the march to war with Iran a little harder to sell.

      • Carllarc
        January 14, 2012, 6:29 am

        washingtonpost.com

  13. Bandolero
    January 13, 2012, 7:23 pm

    To me that story sounds like Obama taking revenge against Israel.

    Israel just killed an Israeli scientist to drag the US into a war against Iran. Obama doesn’t like to have his re-election choices diminished by being dragged into a war against Iran. So now he informs the US public that Israel is waging a covert war, shedding US blood instead of Israeli blood.

    For those following Irainian media that is not new. Mark Perry even noted it at the end of his article himself, when he said, that Rigi said he met with people posing as NATO officials in Morocco, of whom he assumed they were Israelis. Morocco is a perfect place for such a meeting because the Mossad built the intel service of Morocco. The whole world knows the perfect relations between Mossad and Morocco after the Mossad helped to kill Mehdi Ben Barka. That the US is taking on Mossad now for posing as US intel agents, I find quite encouraging.

    However, I doubt to trust the story that Jundullah boss Abdolmalek Rigi had no support from the US. Mark Perry claims that the Iranian story of Abdolmalek Rigi being arrested on a flight from Dubai to the US base in Manas, Kirigistan, is a fairy tale. However the Iranians claimed also that Abdolmalek Rigi was a regular guest on NATO bases in Afghanistan and got fake Afghan paperwork with him – and as far as I remember – they provided photo proof for that. Mark Perry does not go into that detaill of the Iranian story so I’m sceptic. For me the Iranian story of the arrest of Abdolmalek Rigi looks more credible.

  14. Bumblebye
    January 13, 2012, 7:25 pm

    If an MSM outlet were to reveal this to the public, expect Congress and the Senate to pass a resolution condemning them for blaming poor little Israel. Truth doesn’t matter, the USA electorate doesn’t matter, donors do matter.

    • Real Jew
      January 14, 2012, 1:41 am

      ” Truth doesn’t matter, the USA electorate doesn’t matter, donors do matter.”

      BB, you are exactly right! The comment above sums up the US/Israel relationship in its entirety. There’s no “shared values” between the two countries, no “strategic benefits”, no real friendship. Unequivocally, the sole reason why the US govt has an “unbreakable bond” with Israel is because our greedy spineless politicians wants powerful pro Israel individuals/organizations to donate to their political campaigns

      • FreddyV
        January 14, 2012, 7:07 am

        Don’t forget those politicians also want votes from witless God botherers who believe Israel has to exist in order for Jesus to return.

        Pretty potent mix.

      • Les
        January 14, 2012, 11:04 am

        USrael. A single entity.

  15. American
    January 13, 2012, 8:11 pm

    I’ll make one more comment on this…….this impersonation of American intelligence by Israel should be the last Red Line where it concerns the US.
    Israel already reached my personal Palestine Red Line some time ago.

    And I don’t want to go into a lot of pronouncements because I doubt even this is Red Line enough for the despicable, treasonous US congress so I don’t have any expectations of political change.

    I hear blather on here about how inconceivable it would be for the US to go against Israel in any way. And I want to say again those who think that should never or would never occur are fools. What is inconceivable is what Israel did in impersonating US CIA–for any purpose and particulary for recruiting terrorist.
    We have been under the impression that Israel only ‘used’ other countries in this manner and way which was bad enough, while being careful not to do to the US.
    Well, we were wrong. They have done it to the US. And unless you were absolutely blind to the zionist/Israel steps of incremental infiltrations and use of the US and it’s power over the decades you had to understand it was only a matter of time till they went this far.

    I want to quote one of my favorites that is most true about mentalities and movements like Zionism.

    “Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.”

    “Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men?

    The zionist Israel learned well from the Nazis gradual habitution methods—every use of , every inroad and infiltration into America was always so justified as necessary to the Jews survival, every crime they committed in Palestine and elsewhere so necessary and needy of US excusing for the Jewish state’s survival. It’s been step by step by step by step. All facilitated by corruption in our own political bodies.

    Well, I am not even an extraordinary person and I can see the ending. What Israel did in this infuriated me more than shocked me. They will do more and worse.
    That you can take to the bank.

  16. Shingo
    January 13, 2012, 8:11 pm

    Is there is any more doubt that Israel is a state sponsor of terorism?

  17. Taxi
    January 13, 2012, 8:21 pm

    Those mosad agents with perfect American accents – now would that be a California, Texas or New York accent? Really, I wanna know details like that. And are we gonna see some creepy hotel security footage of them faux CIA agents getting into elevators carrying tennis rackets too? Hey what bank did them dollars come from?

    “”It’s amazing what the Israelis thought they could get away with,” the intelligence officer said. “Their recruitment activities were nearly in the open. They apparently didn’t give a damn what we thought…”

    Well if THAT ain’t the crux of the problem: Aipac assuring the mossad that israelis still “own America”. Will Chris Mathews and the other msm lemmings quote the above passage and dissect it? Hahahahaha is the answer yeah right!

    All I can say is the more this story spreads, the worst it’s gonna get for American jews. Is my prediction. Guilt by association. It’s the way the world works. American jews are gonna end up living in the doghouse with American moslems.

    The msm may whitewash partially or completely this story, but when you hear of it on the net or around the water-cooler even once, just once, it kinda sticks on ya. Cuz Americans know you just don’t do shit like that to your BEST FRIEND FOREVER! Americans tend to get emotional and upset over ‘betrayals’. Just look at how many ‘revenge’ movies we’ve made year after year after year.

    Dwindling trust. Israel just lost a hellalotta American supporters. Will congress demand explanations and accountability from the israeli embassy in DC? Cuz if they don’t, the masses are gonna notice and may start to think that congress might be in cahoots with foreign agents whose shenanigans endanger the lives of both American civilian and soldier.

    This story’s timing flukely benefits Ron Paul’s foreign policy angle. Egg on the faces of all the msm punditry who attacked him and called his foreign-aid policy towards israel ‘kookoo’.

    Me, I do think “the times they are a changin'” despite the corruption of the system. Slowly, but they are.

    Heck ten years from now (if israel lives till then), Aipac will be so bruised and busted that even Hollywood will be making spy movies about it.

    • Annie Robbins
      January 13, 2012, 10:20 pm

      All I can say is the more this story spreads, the worst it’s gonna get for American jews. Is my prediction. Guilt by association. It’s the way the world works.

      i don’t agree. i think there will be multitudes of american jews who will be as disgusted with this stuff as the rest of us. and i think most americans, the majority i assume who personally have jewish acquaintances, will not judge every jew as if they run in a pack. i do think it will hamper ardent zionist pro israel types. there are idiot racists just like the pam gellar types in any mix. but most americans? no. i think they are smarter than that, and that includes jewish americans. the defenders of these actions? yeah, they’ll experience a backlash, as they should.

      • MRW
        January 13, 2012, 11:07 pm

        annie, you live in Northern California, fercrissake, god’s country. People read there. ;-) They have an opinion of Fox versus whatever. Even dismissive right-wing Republicans are more informed on the issues. It’s a cantankerous place that supports a modicum of intellectual rigor in the public arena, unlike great swaths of the country that like things unchanged with Easy Listenin’ on the radio, and Reagan slogans on the air.

        “i think most americans, the majority i assume who personally have jewish acquaintances, will not judge every jew as if they run in a pack.”

        Of course not, but that’s not the issue. The issue is Israel recklessly threatening an unnecessary war that could have catastrophic consequences, and the ONLY ONES WHO CAN STOP IT are the American Jews who object to it because Gentiles don’t count, or we get accused, as jonah et al do here repeatedly, of being biased against Israel, or delegitimizing Israel, or whatever horseshit whine is meant to fog the facts. And if it gets to war, and if it gets catastrophic, and if those who could have stopped it stayed silent, then they will be blamed.

        China and Russia are too powerful and too liquored up with weapons and Russia’s gas and oil (No. 1 producer globally)–this is not 1950–to let the US’s Dennis-The-Menace inchoate teenage ally play with its nuclear arsenal and threaten the world.

        This is goddam serious. I heard it this week from an extraordinarily high-level government official within the nether reaches of this government’s military (who runs the country, and it has nukes) that, yes, we’re going to war. That it’s all but a fait accompli. He said, “This is very, very, very, very serious,” and this guy is not given to hyperbole. He said it’s why you’re going to see high-level leaks coming out in the next two weeks–then Perry’s article came out this morning!–to place the blame where it belongs in an effort to walk this back from where it’s gone. He said he is surprised that Americans are so unaware of how serious this is; he said it’s a Cuban missile crisis. Right now. Today. He characterized the Israeli political leadership as batshit insane, and that his country was aligning itself with China and Russia for protection and for help in keeping his country’s nukes out of the hands of terrorists, who might take advantage of the situation.

      • MRW
        January 13, 2012, 11:25 pm

        From the Telegraph, second carrier arrives in Gulf:

        8:57AM GMT 12 Jan 2012
        Backed by a cruiser, destroyer and with almost 80 planes and helicopters on board, the USS Carl Vinson carrier strike group “arrived in the US 5th Fleet area of responsibility (AOR)” on January 9,” a Fifth Fleet statement said.

        That area covers the Gulf, the Red Sea, the Gulf of Oman and parts of the Indian Ocean.

        Pentagon spokesman John Kirby told reporters that the Carl Vinson was “not in the Gulf” and had not gone through the Strait of Hormuz – a key oil route which Iran has threatened to close as tensions with the West flare.

        The Carl Vinson was due to relieve another aircraft carrier, the USS John Stennis, which is in the region, Kirby said.

        Yeah. Relieve.

      • MRW
        January 14, 2012, 12:01 am

        Five of our 10 Carrier Strike Group Aircraft carriers are in the area:

        The George H.W. Bush Carrier Strike Group aircraft carrier off Syria.
        The USS The John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group aircraft carrier in the Gulf
        The USS Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group in the Gulf.
        The USS Abraham Lincoln Carrier Strike Group in Thailand on way to 5th Fleet AOR (Gulf).
        The USS George Washington Carrier Strike Group in South China Sea (Other side of Thailand)

      • dumvitaestspesest
        January 14, 2012, 1:07 am

        And some people STILL do not believe that a WAR is on its way, and they think that those warships were sent there just for the heck of it.
        Let the boys have a fun ride ,back and forth.
        And the British warships joined them, and Russia sends their war toys in the region. Big Brother and Older Brother are in their battlefield playground with their toys ready ……To ATTACK.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 12:16 pm

        The issue is Israel recklessly threatening an unnecessary war that could have catastrophic consequences, and the ONLY ONES WHO CAN STOP IT are the American Jews who object to it because Gentiles don’t count, or we get accused, as jonah et al do here repeatedly, of being biased against Israel, or delegitimizing Israel, or whatever horseshit whine is meant to fog the facts. And if it gets to war, and if it gets catastrophic, and if those who could have stopped it stayed silent, then they will be blamed.

        well, imho, the same neocons who got us into iraq have gotten us where we are today with iran, but the fault for that is not the entire jewish community getting blamed. americans as a whole are blamed for that and we will be blamed for this war too, if we follow down this path of doing whatever it is israel wants us to do. and contrary to your opinion (and slater’s whose similar argument i debated the other day) i do not believe the only ones who can stop it are american jews. i think there are a lot more of us and i think it behooves us to work in conjunction with what i believe is the majority of american jews who do not want a war with iran.

        and i think it is all of our jobs to make the whatever distinctions that need to be made to isolate the extremist voices pushing for this war whether it be warmongering from the american jewish right or the christian zionist freakshow some of which are lining up for the gop run.

        i remain, i firmly believe, the vast majority of the american people can make the distinction between rightwing neocons and other members of the jewish community. i also think we are in dire straights here and it isn’t fair for any of us to lay the burden of waking up the american public to the dangers of israeli policy squarly onto the shoulders of american jews. it’s too big burden and too big a task. we have to all step up and denounce this. we can’t have 98% of the country taking a back seat out of fear or reluctance of being labeled an anti semite, basically taking seats in the bleachers and observers of competing sides of the jewish community tackling the relationship with israel. that’s nuts. we need all the resource we can get and we need to align with members of the jewish community who think like we do, empowering those relationships and making them stronger.

        that is what i believe and it will be those alliances that will carry us thru preventing an ugly anti semitic backlash. also, people who blame rightwing neocons for this situation are not doing it because of anti semitism but because they are to blame for this. so you can’t (or shouldn’t) be accused of racism or bigotry for political differences.

      • Kathleen
        January 14, 2012, 12:51 pm

        Ruh f—–g Roh

      • MRW
        January 14, 2012, 4:30 pm

        annie,

        “if we follow down this path of doing whatever it is israel wants us to do. and contrary to your opinion (and slater’s whose similar argument i debated the other day)”

        Slater and I differ. If I am correct about his pov, he thinks US Jews should be the ones to formulate ME policy (badly stated on my part…the family is screaming at me for being on the computer when they’re waiting to leave), whereas I was specifically addressing speaking out against going to war with Iran for the ‘Jewish State’…a ‘you don’t speak for me’ campaign.

        I happen to agree with your above, btw, but I see things more darkly than you do. After watching the acceptance of the Patriot Act and the lack of outrage over losing habeas corpus in 9/2006, and the thing Obama just signed, etcetera etcetera etcetera, I have little faith in what will outrage the American people. A cataastrophic war will. And they are on dip-n-dap (computer term for on/off) as a result of Bush’s for us/against us mindset firmly taking hold.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 5:46 pm

        well of course you differ mrw, i was only referencing the part you had capitalized. i think phil said he agreed with that part too if i am not mistaken.

        and yes, i see things darkly too sometimes but i am ever the optimist sometimes to my own detriment.

      • Taxi
        January 14, 2012, 1:56 am

        The jews of israel can be bolshy all they want, but unless American jews renounce and condemn israeli back-stabbing acts like this scandal, I’m afraid their community will be viewed wholesale as being suspect and as being part of israel’s anti-American activities. Even here in ‘liberal’ California they will be judged – remember our despicable Japanese prison camps?

        No point in giving false comfort to the ‘silent’ jewish community when it’s loyalties are being questioned more and more by patriotic America – especially with consequential scandals like the above.

      • yourstruly
        January 14, 2012, 12:07 pm

        there are more jewish-americans now speaking out against the zionist entity, but if america attacks iran and u.s. casualties are beyond the public’s tolerance &/or there’s serious blowback against america, jews could end up in concentration camps. this would please israel-firsters because they’d expect that many jews would immigrate to israel.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 12:22 pm

        taxi, for the most part i don’t think of the american jewish community as ‘silent’, anymore than the rest of us when it comes to speaking out against dangerous israeli policy.

        i could be wrong, maybe people will blame all the jews. that would be disgusting, i just do not see it happening. as for myself i will blame anyone who advocates for this war although i can’t imagine any non or anti zionist approving of it. but all those dem politicians who roll over for likud, i will definitely be blaming them too. definitely. the dem party, definitely. were 300 million strong here and there’s plenty of blame to pass around for the way our government foreign policy has been highjacked. PLENTY OF BLAME. we’re a bunch of little weakling peons screaming ‘israel made me do it’ as we massacre more and more muslims. gruesome. we need to wake up and smell the roses, pronto.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 12:38 pm

        jews could end up in concentration camps

        yourstruly plllllease! this is fear mongering.

      • yourstruly
        January 14, 2012, 4:37 pm

        not fear mongering but an expression of concern, based on, as taxi cites, the experience of japanese-americans after pearl harbor. and i have vivid memories of a japanese friend explaining to me one morning that he wouldn’t be seeing me any more, as he was being sent away somewhere.

      • Kathleen
        January 14, 2012, 5:14 pm

        insane..

      • American
        January 14, 2012, 12:32 pm

        Annie you are too good and think the best of people, that’s admirable, and I agree with you that most people are basically decent…particularly on a one to one basis.
        But they are also herd animals and can turn to mob thinking in chaotic and unclear situations.
        I don’t know what would be the affect on Jews collectively if we have a war with Iran.
        I do know it is already accepted by people who are paying attention that it would be a war for the Jewish state….so for the Jews. The part of the general public that isn’t paying attention would be in shock to wake up one morning and find the US is engaged in another ME war and a majority of them would be ultra, ultra pissed. There would be 10x’s more talk of it being the Jews or Israel’s fault than there was with Iraq and 10x’s the evidence to support the accusation.
        How big the backlash against Jews would be or how big any kind blame movement would be I have no idea, nothing huge I don’t think, but there would be enough people to probably create a ‘attitude’ toward the Jews that would come out in their spoken opinions to others and politics and so forth.
        However I am not concerned that Americans would turn into nazis and go around burning down Jewish stores, attacking Jews and etc..
        And although many will disagree with me and think it sounds anti semitic or unfair, and actually it is unfair to apply it collectively, I think the Jewish community feeling some reasonable disapproval and discomfort re their Israel attachment and activities in our government on it’s behalf would not be a bad thing in the long term if it made them realize that ultimately the rest of the world, despite their holocaust, is not eternally responsible for or obligated to them and Israel.
        Would this be unfair some Jews- yes. But in general terms if it resulted in them realizing they don’t come ahead of the majority interest and can be criticized/ disapprove of and opposed without being holocausted for it it is worth whatever discomfort they might feel, for them and everyone else in the long run.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 12:44 pm

        well spoken american. i agree completely.

        but there would be enough people to probably create a ‘attitude’ toward the Jews that would come out in their spoken opinions to others and politics and so forth.

        exactly, and there would probably be some rabid anti semites just like we have the rabid islamophobes. it’s par for the course. but i seriously doubt it could ever be anymore dangerous for american jews than it has been for american muslims these last ten years and they’ve survived. the backlash on the jewish community should be the least of our worries right now if we are seriously on the brink of war. i’m not advocating anyone let anyone else fend for themselves i am saying we can handle it as a country. we’re not suddenly going to materialize into a bunch of nazis over night. not. going. to. happen.

      • Mndwss
        January 14, 2012, 3:38 pm

        “i am saying we can handle it as a country. we’re not suddenly going to materialize into a bunch of nazis over night. not. going. to. happen.”

        No not suddenly.

        It started with the Native Americans and the reservations (consentration camps).

        And it is still going on with the Verschãrfte Vernehmung (Enhanced interrogation techniques).

        link to en.wikipedia.org

        And in between there was all the other wars. (With US soldiers pissing on corpses and decorating themselves with the ears and testicles of their victims).

        List of US wars:

        link to en.wikipedia.org

        Yes you can handle it as a country.

        As long as the american war is on the world and not the world against the peaceful American state of USA.

        As long as you are winning.

        As long as the powerful mafia state does not have to play by the same rules as other countries.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 4:04 pm

        mndwss, Yes you can handle it as a country.

        As long as the american war is on the world and not the world against the peaceful American state of USA.

        i don’t think america is beyond revolution or a war amongst ourselves, i think think it would be more likely to breakdown along ideological lines vs via our ethnicities.

      • Mndwss
        January 14, 2012, 4:33 pm

        “i think think it would be more likely to breakdown along ideological lines vs via our ethnicities.”

        American Muslims go to prison for 65 years for giving money to people in gaza.

        link to en.wikipedia.org

        The UN, US and The red Cross can give money to the same organisations.

        If american muslims do the same.

        Game over.

        Jail for the rest of their muslim life..

        How is it not already breaking down along ethnic lines?

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 5:15 pm

        i was referencing the american people in general mndwss, not gov policy, gov policy is already racist along ethnic lines.
        link to mondoweiss.net

      • Antidote
        January 14, 2012, 7:11 pm

        ” i think it would be more likely to breakdown along ideological lines vs via our ethnicities.”

        Is Zionism a matter of ideology or ethnicity?

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 7:51 pm

        zionism is a matter of ideology vs jewish as part of an ethnic identity.

    • Les
      January 14, 2012, 11:08 am

      Don’t worry about American Jews suffering from guilt by association. This story would actually have to be reported in our media for that to happen.

      • iamuglow
        January 14, 2012, 5:58 pm

        “This story would actually have to be reported in our media for that to happen.”

        I am curious about how that works. It is being ignored in the US media. Newspapers. Television. How is that an uncentralized media acts so predictibly and ignore stories like this but all come together on a story like the one the other day about Iranian speedboats threatening US warships? How does it work?

      • Donald
        January 14, 2012, 7:56 pm

        “How is that an uncentralized media acts so predictibly and ignore stories like this but all come together on a story like the one the other day about Iranian speedboats threatening US warships? How does it work?”

        That’s a really interesting question. I assume that the people in the press know what they are supposed to report and what they shouldn’t, but (this came up in another thread), to what degree does this actually involve orders being given and to what degree is it just corporate conformity? That is, if you weren’t a conformist you wouldn’t rise that high in mainstream journalism.

        There’s also the stupidity factor. When I watch television news I can’t help but think that quite a few of these guys (and women) really don’t seem very bright.

  18. proudzionist777
    January 13, 2012, 9:57 pm

    This bombshell is a dud.

    The CIA had been in contact with Jundallah since 2005. The CIA probably thought Jundallah could help the CIA deal with al-Qaeda and the CIA probably gave Jundallah funds through a third party. Why else would Pakistan wait for US approval before shipping the head of Jundallah back to Iran for trial?

    The CIA probably backed away from Jundallah when they realized that they were crazies.

    The Mossad couldn’t approach Jundallah and come out and say that they were with Israel so they said they were CIA.

    Remember. The CIA approached Jundallah BEFORE the Mossad did.

    So what’s the big deal?

    • Taxi
      January 14, 2012, 2:00 am

      A janitor sweeping the dogpoop under the carpet. Ya think we’re all stupid don’t ya? You must be real ‘proud’ today.

    • irena
      January 14, 2012, 9:56 am

      That isn’t much of a refutation to a two-page investigation offered by Mark Perry.

    • Bumblebye
      January 14, 2012, 10:24 am

      Sadly, Iran itself has decided to blame the CIA for the killings, claiming to have evidence of their involvement. They also take a sideswipe at us in the UK for seemingly knowing about a covert campaign.
      link to guardian.co.uk

      • Shingo
        January 14, 2012, 4:28 pm

        Sadly, Iran itself has decided to blame the CIA for the killings, claiming to have evidence of their involvement.

        This would explain why the CIA has leaked this tory through Perry – to get the infomation out to the Iranians. Obama couldn’t do it in public.

      • Tuyzentfloot
        January 14, 2012, 4:46 pm

        Sadly, Iran itself has decided to blame the CIA for the killingsAnother tack: remarkably, Iran chose to react not with retaliation but using diplomatic channels.

    • Kathleen
      January 14, 2012, 10:40 am

      US Memos show the US forbade any contact between US officials and Jundallah.

      If any other intelligence agents from another country posed as CIA and recruited terrorist to kill another countries scientist our MSM would be all over this story

      Prof Cole “Just to be clear, it is too soon to absolve US agencies from any involvement in Jundullah. But apparently from what Perry says, that would have been very indirect, through third or fourth parties. Washington is annotedthat Mossad made itit look direct, in hopes of provoking Iranian terrorism against the US and ginning up a war”

    • Shingo
      January 14, 2012, 4:26 pm

      This bombshell is a dud.

      Yeah, whatever, evidence be damned

      The CIA probably thought Jundallah could help the CIA deal with al-Qaeda and the CIA probably gave Jundallah funds through a third party.

      Right, so you say it’s a dud and only offer a probable explanations. Right.

      Has it occured to you that Jundallah is Al Qaeda afficliated you idiot?

      Why else would Pakistan wait for US approval before shipping the head of Jundallah back to Iran for trial?

      Oh I dunno, maybe becasue the CIA might want him for questioning or send him to Gitmo? The fact that Jundallah has not targetted Americans probably makes them less a priority. After all, the US only deisignated them a terrorist group in 2005.

      The CIA probably backed away from Jundallah when they realized that they were crazies.

      Anotehr “probably”, but no facts given.

      The Mossad couldn’t approach Jundallah and come out and say that they were with Israel so they said they were CIA.

      So first you say the story is a dud, then you agree with it and try to justify Israel’s actions. So you admit, Israel stabbed the USA/CIA in the back?

      Remember. The CIA approached Jundallah BEFORE the Mossad did.

      When? Where are your links?

  19. Carllarc
    January 13, 2012, 10:25 pm

    the assassinations of the Iranian scientist, Israel chuckles and the US vehemently denies involvement, then the US leaks of Israel’s dirty doings (which Iran and Israel also see) , and now

    link to washingtonpost.com

    (Iran holds out a hint of an olive branch to the US and UN); maybe the US and Iran are of sorts cooperating, really trying to avoid a huge mess that Israel is trying to get started.

  20. john h
    January 13, 2012, 11:07 pm

    Silverstein snippets:

    I’ve been reporting for some time that the Mossad has been doing this with the MEK, which has assassinated Iranian scientists and bombed Iranian missile bases. Le Figaro also wrote that Israeli intelligence recruited Iranian Kurds inside Iraqi Kurdistan to engage in sabotage within Iran. Now, Perry’s story confirms an Israeli anti-Iran terror Trifecta.

    I published a post here some time ago based on a Wikileaks cable in which Meir Dagan confirmed to Nicholas Burns the broad outlines of the above plan. The Israelis operate under the mistaken impression that by playing on the natural internal dissension among ethnic groups inside that country that it can subvert both Iranian stability and the current regime.

    I think it can and should be argued that such outside intervention by nations is already viewed by the native population as hostile to their country’s interests, and only serves to reinforce internal cohesion. They rally citizens around a repressive regime by focussing fear and paranoia on an external enemy.

    Another element to consider in the Mossad strategy behind this operation is that getting the U.S. associated with it, even in a fraudulent way, would advance their interest. They could then argue, you’re already implicated, why not just take the plunge and go all the way on this? There is a slippery slope in military-intelligence activities.

    Omid Memarian writes an acute column in The Daily Beast based on direct interview with prominent Iranian reform figures who denounce the Mossad black ops program against Iran. I’m going to quote a long passage since I believe it conveys the full power of the author’s and his sources’ arguments better.

    link to richardsilverstein.com
    link to richardsilverstein.com

    • NorthOfFortyNine
      January 14, 2012, 3:33 am

      john h: good catch. If I may, from your Silverstein link:

      So Israel likely recruited Israeli-Americans or native Israelis with excellent language skills in American English to pose as CIA agents. As an American-Jew, this aspect of the operation makes my blood boil. Americans in Israel already have a reputation of being settler hardliners, if not outright Jewish terrorists. Do we need to become known as well for betraying our American roots by becoming fake CIA spies in the Arab world?

      • Danaa
        January 14, 2012, 2:26 pm

        Nof49: “Americans in Israel already have a reputation of being settler hardliners, if not outright Jewish terrorists. ”

        What of the reputation of Israelis in America? how many of them are there now? 600K? 1M?

        I know quite a few personally. For the most part, the ones I know came from the technical/scientific areas, so they are generally as interested in “politics” as most technical people are (ie, some, not too much, rarely actively). Those who pretty much settled in the US are more than happy to be out of Israel, a place they go to once a year to visit relatives, aging parents etc., and from which they return, shaking their heads about the ever-increasing ubiquity of the loathed Haredi (“they are everywhere now!” exclaimed one recently. “Even in Tel Aviv you see them”).

        But, and there’s always a but. Many of the ones I know (for sure, not all) are on the right side of the American political spectrum, and still, even decades later – step in to defend Israel, no matter how badly they believe the country behaves, and how fast it is sliding towards a theocracy. That from people who are, by and large, against the settlements and occupation, sometimes quite emphatically. They strenuously argue that America and israel are on the same side (the argument becoming more shrill, as the truth of it shrivels). And for the most part, they despise Islam, christianity and anything Arab, differing only by how openly/loudly they care to make these attitudes known (hey – some of their own grown kiddies are inter-married now, so gotta be more careful around the dinner table). I have no doubt that were some recruited to support something israel wants help with, quite a few would find a way to brush aside their reservations and step up to the plate. There are, of course, those smart ones would find just the wiggle room and manage to be quite busy somewhere else if and when the call comes. But all it takes is for 1 out of 20 to lend a hand for everyone’s reputation to take a dive.

        I really don’t mean to make generalizations (my personal sample is way too small), but sometimes I worry about what would happen if Americans, average ones, were to wake up and find out just how little certain groups care about the vaunted “shared values”. Or about where the sharing ends and the value-shredding begins.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        January 14, 2012, 3:09 pm

        Thank you Daana for giving us an honest, personal glimpse on your “Israeli in America ” screen.
        In Polish, there is a saying “your shirt is always close to your body”, meaning that whatever a person soaked as a child/youngester, stays with him/her for the rest of life. It takes a lot of effort to change somebody views and opinions. It can be done ,but it requires a lot of will to do so. And a great honesty as well as a possiblity of being cast out (kicked out) of the tribe.
        Not everybody feels like putting up with it. Many do not care, many conform.
        Some do not mind taking a long, hard look at the mirrow and acknowledge the dirt that they are seeing.
        Bravo for people like you, Gilad :), Lillian and many others, who are not afraid of doing so.
        Starting a “war” with your own tribe is not something pleasant ,but sometimes is unavoidable if a tribe goes berserk ,and you are the sane one.
        Of course,the tribe thinks the opposite.

      • MRW
        January 15, 2012, 1:32 am

        So, they’re just as small-minded as the rest of society here, Danaa. And as close-minded. Normal.

        Always surprises me that we didn’t get the message that the purpose of living was inner growth and that includes seeing, hearing, assimilating now. It’s a full time job to pay attention. Imagine how differently we’d all think and be if we were dropped into our society now with the accumulated brain power of our respective ages but seeing it as a smart child does, who arrives with the consciousness of his age somehow. Probably why we don’t respect the elderly for anything other than hanging on and giving presents. Maybe university is something everyone should attend at the end of their life. ;-)

      • Danaa
        January 15, 2012, 1:08 pm

        MRW: “Maybe university is something everyone should attend at the end of their life.”

        I’ve also thought that myself. It’s amazing how some people become more open to ideas – and information – when they get older. Perhaps it’s not just the elastic brain, but the benefit of hindsight, that helps remove barriers to learning that were there in the early parts of life.

        Or, it may just be that as we age, we have fewer parties to go to, and less pre-occupation with mating rituals? should free up lots of brain space, don’t you think?

        I agree that those – ex-israelis – and most-still-Israelis – of whom I spoke are not much different than other techie types, for the most part. But it is because of their political unawareness coupled with reasonable smarts (emphasis on reasonable, as tech types go, in which I include bona-fide scientists) that they serve as a good backwards mirror into the society they left. It’s as if you get to take snap-shots of the particular israel they each came from, which then becomes frozen in their minds. Something like this must work with all ex-pats and immigrants, but in Israelis’ case, the ties continue to bind quite tightly, at least for the first generation out.

      • MRW
        January 15, 2012, 5:14 pm

        Danaa: “It’s amazing how some people become more open to ideas – and information – when they get older. Perhaps it’s not just the elastic brain”

        McMaster University in Canada did a 20-year study with, get this, over 22,000 people to study the effects of aging and what they discovered was startling. The ‘senior moment’ barb was found to be in older brains (100% there, no Alzheimer’s), the massive computations an older brain does based on life experience, not indicative of memory loss. They said the younger brain, while appearing to be more agile, was in fact not as powerful. They used the example of asking a teenage kid to go get a book/keys/something from the bedroom dresser counter. Kid comes back and says, It’s not there.” You get up, go in the bedroom and find it/whatever on the nightstand. The younger brain is not developed enough (even up to the age of 21-23) to take the environment into consideration, make alternative choices, or even consider anything other than the singleton order, the pre-frontal cortex being the issue, and we both know that doesn’t develop fully until the end of the third decade of life. An older brain has.

        I lost the hard drive that had a copy of this. I believe the study came out in 2005. The upshot was that, provided there was mental exercise, we get smarter, not dumber, as we age.

        “frozen in their minds” No shit. ;-)

      • Citizen
        January 14, 2012, 5:39 pm

        As an American I’m really pissed about it, and if I was additionally a Jew, I’d be even more pissed, if that’s possible.

  21. piotr
    January 13, 2012, 11:07 pm

    Perhaps a silly question: what is wrong in working with Jundallah?

    Is it a Beluchi separatist organization, which is a sensitive issue in Pakistan where the central government has an oversized fear of Beluchi separatism? Which could mean that Pakistani government can get miffed over that. That could change a lot in the geopolitics of the region Iran-AfPak-India. Not in our imperial favor.

    • Shingo
      January 14, 2012, 2:14 am

      erhaps a silly question: what is wrong in working with Jundallah?

      For starters, how about the fact they are an Al Qaeda Sunni Jihadist group?

    • kalithea
      January 14, 2012, 2:48 am

      What is wrong? What is WRONNNNNNNNG?? They’re a terrorist organization that has killed countless civilians in Iran, women and children included!!

      Are you a Zionist? Because only a Zionist would have the unmitigated gall to ask such a stupid question!

      • proudzionist777
        January 14, 2012, 9:38 am

        “..countless civilians”.

        Kali. You tend toward hyperbole.

    • moonkoon
      January 14, 2012, 7:41 am

      piotr, the point being made is that the Israelis, a supposed ally of the US, have been and probably still are in the habit of posing as representatives or officials of another country (in this case the US) when hiring criminals or militants to carry out some outrage in a third country (in this case Iran). They do this with the intention of linking the country whom they impersonate to the mayhem that has been perpetrated in the target country by the criminals and militants that they hire. And by so doing they hope to promote conflict between the country they impersonate (US) and the one who is the target of the criminal act (Iran).

      This is but one of the duplicitous methods that the Israelis use to start and maintain conflicts. For example, they have been know to convene groups that present themselves as a threat to Israel’s security, …which then allows them to claim to be in imminent threat of extinction. They have also been known to assume the identity of citizens of another country in order to undertake covert activities and provocations in places where they find it expedient to mask their true identity. They have many of these tricks up their sleeve. Now they don’t have a monopoly one these deceptions, but they do have market dominance in the field at present. :-)

      What’s wrong with Jundallah? Well nothing if you don’t mind hired guns and stand-over men. But if I (Israel) tell them I’m piotr (US), and hire them to say, rob your neighbours (Iran), you probably wouldn’t be too happy with me when the neighbours turned up at your place with the tar and feathers. :-)

      • dumvitaestspesest
        January 14, 2012, 8:49 am

        But if you (israel) and piotr (usa) were always together, patting each other back, inseparable, supporting each other unconditionally, then ,at some point, your neighbours ( iran) would not care who did what.
        The tar and feathers would be for BOTH of you.
        And…for a good reason.

      • MRW
        January 15, 2012, 2:20 am

        “still are in the habit of posing as representatives or officials of another country (in this case the US) when hiring criminals or militants to carry out some outrage in a third country (in this case Iran)”

        Because they don’t have the balls to stand up for themselves.

        Oh, you’ll get some high-minged jibber-jabber about how their motto is based on the great principles of Sun Tzu, but Sun Tzu was writing (deception) about war, not peace. (As Danaa once wrote Israel is Sparta.) And Sun Tzu said the easiest thing in the world is to be warring and creating chaos wherever you go. A great country and a great people, according the ancient Chinese, were those that could produce a vibrant society without them. (We Americans have a loooong way to go.)

    • Kathleen
      January 14, 2012, 10:22 am

      Professor Juan Cole has an informative piece up about the Jundallah.

    • Annie Robbins
      January 14, 2012, 11:14 am

      what is wrong in working with Jundallah?

      yeah, they are separatists. if you look at the new middle east map (sorry, linked to it too many times already) note the new country ‘free baluchistan’, the baluch region is the geostrategic gold standard for oil transit and the new country (tho old region) requires chopping off parts of iran, pakistan and afghanistan. as far as i understand it jundallah operates in the baluch area the neocons want to chop off from iran, crosses over the border and carries out operations supported by the both. so i guess there’s nothing wrong with working with them if you’re into destabalizing the region. whatever. they are brutal too. here are a few links.

      • piotr
        January 14, 2012, 10:16 pm

        To other commenters: I just asked a question. The context is that CIA is “smeared” by an impression that it supports Jundallah. This impression was until now based on the fact that they (a) perform attacks in Iran (b) have support network in Pakistan (c) CIA operates extensively in Pakistan (d) CIA supports MEK that similarly performs attacks in Iran so this seems to be our aim. Seymour Hersh made that claim in the past, who knows if because of his sources or because of making reasonable speculations.

        In any case, any organization in this region that has some disciplined fighters can tap into vast supply of opium/heroine in Afghanistan and make enough to support those fighters. So they do not have to be supported by anyone. Are they “crazies”? The mix of heroine and fundamentalist religion can do it. Are they more crazy than Santorum or Gingrich?

        Perhaps we can sketch Axis of Insanity. Sheldon Adelson would be in the center of a spider web that further emanates through his influence on Israeli PM and American politicians in his pocket. Then Gingrich, Santorum and Jundallah all go insane. Euphrates is designated as a border between Eretz Israel and Baluchi empire, thus solving the vexing problem: how to provide Eretz Israel with friendly neighbors.

        But somehow this story makes little sense. Mossad operates well in places like Lebanon, Palestinian territories or Ukraine (Europe in general). Pakistan seems a bit far off. Trying to convince Sunni fundamentalists who wage a holy war against the heretical regime in Tehran to carry on seems superfluous. And how helpful was it to pose as fellow Arians? If I were a Mossad agent I would try to cut the deal without moving any further than Karachi. But how to tell a groups of apolitical heroine smugglers from properly ideologically inclined heroine smugglers? Recall difficulties USA had trying to negotiate with Taliban and falling on impostors.

        It would still make more sense than kidnapping engineers in Ukraine, so I would not draw any definite conclusions.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 15, 2012, 12:33 am

        piotr, read free baluchistan

        and there is a lot more where that came from.

      • MRW
        January 15, 2012, 2:38 am

        It’s more than that, annie (re: January 14, 2012 at 11:14 am
        ). That region is the only way into Iran to start a war. The west has the NW-SE mountain range filled with anti-aircraft sites and missiles buried in them. The north has the Russian fleet (Caspian Sea). If Iran cuts off the Straits to the Pakistani border, and Pakistan cuts off the sea border from Karachi to the Iranian border (1) our troops in Afghanistan lose an essential supply line, (2) and our aircraft planes will get shot at attempting to come in that way, and (3) any CIA operating in there now are landlocked or dead.

        It’s just an insanity. The Shi’ites in Iraq are going to ask for help from the Russians or Chinese if we attempt to bomb Iran (Shi’ite). The Israeli leadership are just stupid–as in missing a few screws– to pull this crap. They have no concept of how to play with the big boys, thinking their 200 nuclear bombs give them an equal dick.

      • MRW
        January 15, 2012, 3:35 am

        I just realized another thing. Jundallah just screwed itself with any sympathy from the Pakistani people for supposedly conspiring with “Americans.” The Pakistanis, as a result of the drone attacks killing civilians and what we’ve doing there these past three years, have done a 180 about Americans. We are now despised. Really despised. Truly and deeply despised. So much so that there are sections of Pakistan where an American walking down the street will get shot.

        I wonder if the extraordinarily public denial had a second purpose: to isolate the Jundallah from Pakistanis.

      • American
        January 15, 2012, 4:04 pm

        “They have no concept of how to play with the big boys, thinking their 200 nuclear bombs give them an equal dick.”

        They don’t even have 200 nukes, that’s hype…most is 65 to 85 according to FAS.

  22. LanceThruster
    January 14, 2012, 12:50 am

    Dude, this is pretty f#cked up right here. ~ Stan Marsh

  23. Avi_G.
    January 14, 2012, 1:06 am

    Alex Kane,

    That’s a very good article. Another thing you might want to sink your journalistic teeth into is the impersonation of FBI agents by Israeli Mossad.

    There have been a few documented cases in the press about Mossad posing as FBI agents and attempting to recruit among Moslems in the United States.

    One plot, for example, was made public when those Moslem Americans were outraged at the rhetoric the alleged FBI requiters had been peddling and called the police, which in turn found out that the FBI men weren’t actually FBI.

  24. iamuglow
    January 14, 2012, 2:16 am

    Video of Mark Perry on Al Jazeera.

    link to youtu.be

    It probably shows the audience his article was trying to reach that he winded up Jazeera. He comes off clearly as a messenger for the govt….he down plays what the incident means to US/Israel relations…the US was not involved with the assasination in Iran and says explicity the US does not want war with Iran and their leaders should know that.

    Its like Obama is being held hostage in the push towards war. This article coming out is like message in a bottle smuggled out, intended for Iran. ‘We don’t want war. We’ll push for sanctions and posture but we arent going to cross any lines. If they get crossed, the Israelis done it.’

    • Shingo
      January 14, 2012, 6:30 am

      Thanks for the links iamuglow.

      This really exposes the extent to which the Israelis are prepared to risk American lives to achieve their own ambitions. The sheers contempt they have for Americans, even with the most po Israeli president ever.

      I suspect that what we are seeign from the CIA is an effort to avoid a military confrontation with Iran.

      • iamuglow
        January 14, 2012, 5:05 pm

        “I suspect that what we are seeign from the CIA is an effort to avoid a military confrontation with Iran.”

        Yeah, it probably goes to far to even credit Obamas hand in this.

        Its amazing, considering the charge, which should be a game changer that so little changed in terms of US policy towards Israel/Iran..why did it take so long for this leak to come out? Clearly its linked to the assasination and the amped up war talk…but why didn’t this come out sooner…before all these US carriers were headed to the ME and things were all ready so heated?

    • Kathleen
      January 14, 2012, 10:20 am

      Thanks watching now. Will Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow, Ed etc have Mark Perry on the way Al Jazeera did? If any other country around the world had intelligence agents from that country posed as CIA’s agents to recruit terrorist in another country our MSM would be going ballistic. That news would be all over the place.

      Anyone hear a mention about this story on MSNBC, CNN, Fox etc? Even a whisper?

      • iamuglow
        January 14, 2012, 5:22 pm

        “Anyone hear a mention about this story on MSNBC, CNN, Fox etc?”

        I’m havent seen it TV, but online a limited number of sources have picked it up. Mother Jones has something on it, but it plays up the story as ‘US didn’t assasinate Iranian. Israel does recruit Jundallah terrorists’

        That they are impersonating Americans when the recruit them is mentioned, but not as if its important…I imagine if it gets any traction that is how it will be described so that some Americans will still say ‘good for the Israelis’ are some other bs, and ignore perhaps what is the real goal of the goal of the attacks…to implicate Americans in terrorist attacks on Iran.

    • Kathleen
      January 14, 2012, 10:58 am

      Mark Perry in that interview:
      ” I think that there is a real effort on the part of the American government to communicate to the Iranians that we do not want a conflict with them. (uh that is sure hypocritical what would you call sanctions based on unsubstantiated claims and Victoria Nuland announcing over and over again the “US wants to tighten the noose around Iran”) And I think this butteresses that argument. The question is are they listening. I hope they are.

      I can tell you from my own experience and people that I talk to in the US government especially in the military simply don’t want a conflict. They would like to find a way to stop a conflict. Now I have always believed that the way to do that is to talk to them directly. May be the Iranians aren’t interested in that.”

      Mark Perry sure puts forth some odd thinking. That there is a “general conspiracy that we (US) works closely with Israel” Conspiracy? Really?
      He also puts forth that it is the Iranians who do not want to talk. This is a myth that Dennis Ross puts forward all of the time. Perry sure does hammer on the idea that Israel’s illegal activities (killing Iranian scientist) “places US citizens in danger”

      The Leveretts sure object to that spin that Dennis Ross has kept repeating…that there has been plenty of efforts to directly communicate with Iran. The exchange between the Leveretts, Ross, Barbara Slavin and Parsi is worth listening to
      Over at Race for Iran (unable to link)
      FLYNT LEVERETT DEBATES OBAMA’S IRAN POLICY WITH DENNIS ROSS

      • Kathleen
        January 14, 2012, 11:29 am

        Interviewer in the Al Jazeera interview: “how important is the release of these memos”

        Perry: “The US has not been lying. We do not target foreign nationals. Especially officials of a foreign government. And especially considering the sensitivity of our relationship with Iran. We would not do this”
        ————————————————————————–

        The timing of this is something. After the Obama administration accused upper level Iranian officials of being involved with Iran’s alleged plan to knock of the Saudi Ambassador.

    • MRW
      January 15, 2012, 3:16 am

      Yeah, thanks, iamuglow.

      It’s absolutely apparent that Perry is being rolled out with the info and diplomatic code to get the info to Iran ASAP. They couldn’t even wait for back channels.

  25. NorthOfFortyNine
    January 14, 2012, 3:08 am

    In light of this week’s events, Canada’s National Post hosts victory lap for Mossad.

    Former agent:

    “The only real rule in the world of overseas foreign clandestine intelligence is, ‘Don’t get caught.’ If you start going around worrying about breaking rules and stepping on toes, you’re not going to be effective. It’s not a recklessness or a disregard for other countries’ sovereignty, it’s just that that’s how the game is played.”

    link to news.nationalpost.com

    • MRW
      January 15, 2012, 3:21 am

      Thanks, N49 for this. This Mossad agent may think Israel’s rules apply worldwide–they’re all James Bond, aren’t they–but if a rogue agent disrupts foreign policy and compromises the safety of the world, he’s got to go. The Mossad isn’t compartmentalized. The US military and intel are.This guy should speak for himself. He doesn’t express reality of a hegemon like the US.

  26. kalithea
    January 14, 2012, 3:32 am

    I am HIGHLY SKEPTICAL about this leak that comes but one day after Leon Panetta alluded publicly that the U.S. didn’t assassinate that scientist but they may know who did. May know who did it??? May know??? Who’s he trying to kid! WE ALL KNOW IT WAS MOSSAD, but the question is, WAS IT AN ISRAELI/US COLLABORATION? Can anyone honestly say it wasn’t at this point??

    Grant it, Perry could have been working on this story beforehand and the timliness of its release is purely coincidental, although I DOUBT IT.

    I feel like I’m watching a psy-ops operation against Iran. “Trust us – we had not part in this. So hold off on retaliation. Or What you see is just an illusion.” Is the U.S. trying to trick Iran into thinking there’s a schism happening with Israel over this issue just to postpone hostilities or is this leak authentic and Panetta was setting the stage for it the day before, or was he setting the stage for a ruse? There’s only ONE WAY to determine whether this leak is legitimate: the media must do it’s job and PUT THE QUESTION TO THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. Put them in the hot seat; bombard them with questions on this issue.

    Something about this stinks. If I were in the Iranians shoes; I WOULDN’T TRUST ANY OF IT.

    The only positive I see in this, is that if it’s true, Americans should demand that the Lobby be shut down and booted out of the country.

    I don’t trust Obama as far as I can throw him. Obama is all political ambition. Of course he doesn’t want to be dragged into a war with Iran at this time; it’s too soon; but he sure did a good job of pushing all of Iran’s buttons! Imagine being dragged down by a war before he starts aggressively campaigning? So they had to come up with a plan; only thing is, is it legitimate or did they fabricate all this and run it by the Israelis first?

    Could this also be motivated by the fact that Russia has threatened that an attack on Iran is a threat to Russia’s and global security? I believe Russia also moved an aircraft carrier, a destroyer and a frigate into a Syrian port. So perhaps the Administration made this move to cool things down; but is it AUTHENTIC? That is the question.

    I wish it were true; I wish this were a genuine rift; I wish the Republican candidates would be questioned on this issue at the next debate: Do you believe that Israel betrayed the United States by mounting this false flag operation and cooperating with a terrorist organization in the process?: everyone who answers NO or spins would be gauranteed a one-way ticket home! And I know of only one guy who would answer with a resolute YES!

    I wish this were the catalyst that would open everyone’s eyes to the evil that Zionism is, but it just seems too good to be true and I remain very skeptical.

    • MHughes976
      January 14, 2012, 10:19 am

      My sense is that Obama sees this as a problem within American politics: the election, the election! A war would be disruptive and unpredictable. He doesn’t want one, though he also has to avoid offending pro-Israel opinion. So he has resolved on a plan to use any means short of war and boast that these means are working. The target – too tempting to miss, surely – has to be the next round of Iranian elections, which I think are due in March. There has been a terrific assault on the Iranian currency and international oil companies are beginning to sever ties with Iran until the excitement is over (the Financial Times yesterday, Friday). It’s quite likely that there will be widespread disruption and that people in Tehran will get killed.
      I don’t want to idealise the Iranians. I’m sure there are a lot of deep divisions and quite a few people ready to use force.
      It would be sufficient for the plan to work if Iran becomes demonstrably unstable and unable to take much action even for a few months. Obama would have freedom of action after the election and be much less subject to Israeli pressure. He probably thinks the Iranians should be grateful. Whether the plans would work to this extent I don’t know. Kalithea made the point the other day that rather obvious foreign malevolence tends to unite a people, which is indeed a good point. But I don’t know how deep the fractures in Iranian society run.
      The Israelis don’t trust Obama and so can’t be happy with his plan. So they probe and provoke. So it seems to me that the two governments are not hand in glove.
      I sort of guess that the Iranians will not retaliate for now.

    • Kathleen
      January 14, 2012, 11:05 am

      “I feel like I’m watching a psy-ops operation against Iran. “Trust us – we had not part in this. So hold off on retaliation. Or What you see is just an illusion.”

      If you listen to the Perry interview at Al Jazeera there are so many contradictions. The US wants to talk we do not want a conflict. Yet we allowed the I lobby to pass the Kirk Menendez Amendment based on more unsubstantiated claims. The US state Dept spokesperson Victoria Nuland keeps talking about “tightening the noose around Irans neck” through more severe sanctions but that does not count when we are talking about trying to start a conflict. That Israel “has done this before” but this is just going to be a “bump in the road” Yet this posing as US agents and hiring terrorist to assasinate Iranian scientist “places US citizens in danger” and the US is not going to put up with this anymore. WHICH IS IT?

      • NorthOfFortyNine
        January 14, 2012, 4:09 pm

        @ Kathleen: If you listen to the Perry interview at Al Jazeera there are so many contradictions. The US wants to talk we do not want a conflict. Yet we allowed the I lobby to pass the Kirk Menendez Amendment based on more unsubstantiated claims.

        My take is that the administration & the military does not want war but,because of the election, can’t say as much. As for the measures passed in congress,well, that’s pure lobby and means nothing.

        The unequivocal statements denying involvement plus the leaked docs as per Perry article amounts to the US admin trying to talk in code to the Iranians: “Look, it is the Israels stirring up trouble and we disavow their actions. Work with us on the file until after the US elections when the lobby won’t have the leverage it does now and we might be able to work something out. In the meantime, please dear god don’t take the Israeli bait.”

        That’s my read. -N49.

      • seanmcbride
        January 14, 2012, 6:46 pm

        N49,

        Bingo.

      • NorthOfFortyNine
        January 14, 2012, 7:38 pm

        Sean,

        And if we agree on this it means that Israelis know they have until the end of this election to start a war, which is likely true if Obama looks set to be re-elected. Indeed, if Obama starts ramping in the polls, it gets more & more dangerous. Going to be interesting -N49.

      • MRW
        January 15, 2012, 3:03 am

        Got that right, N49. Israel has angered the US military and intel higher-ups, and threatened all our troops in Afghanistan (supply issue). I would bet $5 million that they’re holed up somewhere this weekend figuring out a plan to eliminate some of these Israeli rogues on foreign soil, and planning on closing a lot of doors to intel internally. The public remarks made by our military and intel officers in the last few days have been truly remarkable. As the ionosphere-level military guy I spoke to over the phone this last week (friend’s friend) from the region (described above) said to me “This is very, very, very, very serious.” He likened it to a Cuban missile crisis and said Americans (public) are clueless to the gravity of the situation.

      • NorthOfFortyNine
        January 15, 2012, 1:06 pm

        MRW,

        I read your note above re your friend re how dangerous things are becoming. Very interesting. Without imposing, please keep in touch with him and report back from time to time, would you? Again, without imposing. Most grateful. -N49.

      • American
        January 15, 2012, 3:40 pm

        “WHICH IS IT?”””ask kathleen

        It’s the usual double speak when you are trying to send two different messages to two different groups.
        As in the case where public statements are your only lines of communication with one side (Iran) (or ME street) but if you make that public statement the other side (Israel) (Jewish voters) are gonna hear it also —so you have to contridict yourself and pretend you’re not contridicting yourself.
        It’s also the double speak for when an adm hasn’t decided how far it has to go or made a decision yet on whether their self interest is best served by warring with Iran or not warring with Iran…..rotflmao.
        Can ‘t believe 99/9 % of crap they say, only look at what they do.
        So far they have hurt the hell out of Iran with sanctions, up to but not gone to war yet….but the sanctions themselves tell you that there is only Israel’s interest in US actions, not US interest.
        So take it from there.

    • dumvitaestspesest
      January 14, 2012, 11:29 am

      You are right to remain sceptical. I also do not believe in a sudden change of heart of american estabilishment and media.
      The change , if it will happen at all, will not be peaceful.

      • MRW
        January 15, 2012, 3:06 am

        The American establishment and media don’t have the guns. Our military does. And there are some mind-bogglingly smart guys in it.

      • American
        January 15, 2012, 4:11 pm

        I would go along with a military coup…but only if they threw everyone out, took over the media and spent months reading to the public every classified document and political private paper on everything domestic and foreign…before they allowed elections again…LOL

  27. Talkback
    January 14, 2012, 5:56 am

    The Scorpion and the Frog

    One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.

    The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn’t see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.

    Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.

    “Hellooo Mr. Frog!” called the scorpion across the water, “Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?”

    “Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?” asked the frog hesitantly.

    “Because,” the scorpion replied, “If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!”

    Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. “What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!”

    “This is true,” agreed the scorpion, “But then I wouldn’t be able to get to the other side of the river!”

    “Alright then…how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?” said the frog.

    “Ahh…,” crooned the scorpion, “Because you see, once you’ve taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!”

    So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog’s back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog’s soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.

    Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog’s back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.

    “You fool!” croaked the frog, “Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?”

    The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog’s back.

    “I could not help myself. It is my nature.”

    Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.

  28. Richard Witty
    January 14, 2012, 6:26 am

    Both Israel and Iran are upping and confusing the aggressions.

    The threat to close the Straits of Hormuz are a red line that exerts collective punishment on the world’s economy in the event of an attack on even a precision oriented stopping of Iran’s nuclear program.

    Collective punishment onto the world for insisting that the Iran not pursue nuclear weapons.

    Collective punishment onto all Israelis threatened (including potential destruction of Al-Quds) for insisting that Iran not pursue nuclear weapons, and also cease supporting proxy military attacks on Israel.

    Iran has stated that it has no intention of constructing nuclear weapons, but is enriching uranium to weapons grade (20% enrichment). It could and can limit its nuclear efforts to 3-5% enrichment and abandon all 20% enrichment efforts, and abanon the construction of all plants that require greater than the 3-5% enriched uranium to run.

    Please don’t appease (yes, appease). Actually ask Iran to lighten up, to change, as presumptious as that may seem to you.

    • Kathleen
      January 14, 2012, 11:06 am

      I thought the legal level for Iran to enrich uranium as signatories of the NPT was 20%

    • Kathleen
      January 14, 2012, 11:08 am

      Yeah not like the US is upping the ante with more sanctions based on unsubtantiated claims. And as Victoria Nuland keeps repeating “tightening the noose around Iran’s neck” stirs up the conflict

    • kalithea
      January 14, 2012, 11:54 am

      Written like a true shill for Zionism.

    • justicewillprevail
      January 14, 2012, 12:34 pm

      Witty, you should refrain from making comments when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. You use phrases you have heard – ‘collective punishment’ and ‘appeasement’ – with not a shred of evidence that you actually understand what they mean. You then wade into the nuclear argument, pronouncing nonsense which betrays your lack of understanding. Why you bother with such garbled thoughts is a mystery – I guess you like muddying the waters and are always keen to divert attention from the culpability of the rogue, perfidious and treacherous state of Israel – the most dangerous, warmongering, terrorist state in the ME, and a traitor to the US.

      • Richard Witty
        January 14, 2012, 1:14 pm

        The Straits of Hormuz.

        Nuclear fuel for other purposes than nuclear power (as bad as that is).

        Did you read that the PA has declared that the Iranian saber-rattling is hurting the Palestinian cause?

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 1:19 pm

        omg! you learned it wasn’t straight. progress!

      • Danaa
        January 14, 2012, 2:38 pm

        Check out Witty shilling for Israel. It’s all Iran’s fault he says!!

        Too bad the Mossad does not consider Witty very useful. Surely, he would love to do something more than just scoff at his own country’s best interests here, at MW. I am just glad he makes for such a poorly equipped fifth column.

      • Richard Witty
        January 14, 2012, 9:55 pm

        “shilling”.

        Iran has options besides confrontation.

        The Straits are the red line for the US.

        There is a single topical problem, which is the nuclear enrichment beyond fuel grade.

        And, there is a much larger real problem, the non-acceptance of the state of Israel existing, and the active effort to remove it (even though it does not border Iran, and does not aggress on Iran independently of its independent self-motivated aggression on Israel).

        Many prominent Israelis and Americans believe that the world can live with a nuclear Iran. I don’t know really of any that regard that as a better condition than a non-nuclear Iran, but can live with it.

        I think it is dangerous to consider doing by either Israel, US, Arab states, Europeans.

        And, I think it would be malevolent and dangerous for Iran to retaliate en masse on civilians (collective punishment) for an attack on remote military site.

        It would describe Iran as a nutcase theocracy, and then at that decision point force the conclusion that a nuclear Iran is a grave danger in the world.

        If in the event on an attack on very tightly targeted military targets, Iran responded in kind, focused attack (NOT unleashing Hezbollah’s rockets, not unleashing rockets of its own at civilians), then things would hopefully cool down from there.

        There is a difference between a tactical attack on a military site and terror directed at civilians.

        I don’t know if Israel would engage in over-kill as in Lebanon and Gaza, most strategized as a preparation for ground assault, or more limited, token, and precise, as a communication.

      • Shingo
        January 15, 2012, 5:31 am

        Iran has options besides confrontation.

        Everyone does. Israel had the option besides confrontation ikn 2008, but they chose Cast Lead.

        The Straits are the red line for the US.

        The Straits won’t be an issue until Israel or the US crosses that line. This is why the US is putting the hard word on ISrael not to attack Iran and to stop killing Iranians.

        There is a single topical problem, which is the nuclear enrichment beyond fuel grade.

        No it’s not. All enrichment is being monitored 24/7 by teh IAEA, who continue to verify that none of the fissile material is bein diverted from civilian purposed.

        The US does not have a problem with nuclear enrichment at 3.5 or 20 %. They know Iran is not making nukes. Leon Panetta admitted as much this week.

        And, there is a much larger real problem, the non-acceptance of the state of Israel existing…

        Thatg’s not a problem at all. In fact, it’s a non issue. In fact, it is ISrael that has a problem with Tehran existing.

        IOran has made no effort to remove Israel. It has not attacked or invaded or threatened Israel in any way.

        And, I think it would be malevolent and dangerous for Iran to retaliate en masse on civilians (collective punishment) for an attack on remote military site.

        It’s not up to you what Iran shoudl or should not do in reposnse to an attack. If the US attacks, then Iran as every right to repond how it sees fit. If Israel attacks, then everyone knows it will be because the US has allowed Israel to attack, so again, Iran has every right to repond how it sees fit.

        What you’re worrid about is tghat such a move would backfire on Israel in many ways.

        1. As Meir Dagan said, an Iranian reposnse coupled with a simultaneous barrage of missiels from Hezbollah would paralyze Israel
        2. The world woudl hold Israel reposnsible
        3. The world economy would suffer considerably and Israel would suffer
        4. It would exposeIsrael, not Iran, to the the nutcase theocracy,

        The only thing you give a damn ab out is Israel, the world be damned.

        If in the event on an attack on very tightly targeted military targets, Iran responded in kind, focused attack (NOT unleashing Hezbollah’s rockets, not unleashing rockets of its own at civilians), then things would hopefully cool down from there.

        Is that a chace you want to take? Do you honestly think Hezbollah ve a damn about your perfect little senario? You sound just like those rabid neocons. You’ve resigned yourself to teh idea that Israel would attack Iran, but rather than protest such a move, you’re only concern is that Iran should respond minimally.

        As always, one set fo standards for Israel, another for everyone else.

        There is a difference between a tactical attack on a military site and terror directed at civilians.

        First of all, the attack would not be simply on military sites. The nuclear program, including Natanz and Bushehr, is civlians. There is no military nuclear programm, and an atatck on the enrichment facilities and reator could lead to the deaths of many Iranians.

        So why shouldn’t Iran respond by striking civlians?

        You are one sick and demented puppy Witty.

    • Shingo
      January 14, 2012, 4:13 pm

      Both Israel and Iran are upping and confusing the aggressions.

      Yes Witty, as usualy, Israel is doign all the killing, but both sides are to blame. That’s never the case with you when Israelis are killed.

      The threat to close the Straits of Hormuz are a red line that exerts collective punishment on the world’s economy in the event of an attack on even a
      precision oriented stopping of Iran’s nuclear program.

      What the hell are you drinking Witty? Iran has said the closure of the Straits of Hormuz would be a retaliation to being attacked. INother words, it’s their option for waging war if someont starts a war with them. If the world allows the US or Israel to attack Iran, then let the wold face the consequences.

      Collective punishment onto the world for insisting that the Iran not pursue nuclear weapons.

      Rubbish. Leo Panetta said thsi week that Iran is not making nukes. They are producing nuclear power, which they have a right to do under the NPT.

      You seriously are derranged Witty. Is Israel was attacked, or threatend with attack, you’d be justifying any action they were to take, but when it comes to Muslims, they’re supposed to stand still while the West gives them a bloody nose. If you had any reagrd for anyone but your own tribe, you’d stop wanting your time posting garbage on this forum and be blogging on right wing and mainstream media web sites, condeming the US and Israel for pushing for war.

      Collective punishment onto all Israelis threatened (including potential destruction of Al-Quds) for insisting that Iran not pursue nuclear weapons, and also cease supporting proxy military attacks on Israel.

      Yes, Israel, who had 200-300 nukes and refusing to sign the NPT demanding that Iran, who has signed the NPT and is not mamking nukes. Does anyone who is not criminally insane not see something wrong with this picture?

      Iran has stated that it has no intention of constructing nuclear weapons, but is enriching uranium to weapons grade (20% enrichment).

      Rubbish. 20% of not evben close to weposn grade Witty.

      Get educated.

      It could and can limit its nuclear efforts to 3-5% enrichment and abandon all 20% enrichment efforts, and abanon the construction of all plants that require greater than the 3-5% enriched uranium to run.

      Why shoudl they? Even the US is not demanding that they do that. In fact, in 2009, the US was proposing a deal to provide Iran with 20% fuel for it’s resaeach rector. Do you think that they would have even suggested this if 20% was wepoans grade?

      Your ingorance is simply amazing.

      That deal fell through even after the Iranians accepted it, becasue Obama had promised to Bibbi that the US would impose sanctions.

      Actually ask Iran to lighten up, to change, as presumptious as that may seem to you.

      Lighten up? You are simply a sadist Witty. If 4 ISraeli scientists had been murdered, you’d be screaming for revenge.

      You are a sick and derranged piece of work.

      • FreddyV
        January 15, 2012, 9:12 am

        ‘If you had any reagrd for anyone but your own tribe, you’d stop wanting your time posting garbage on this forum and be blogging on right wing and mainstream media web sites, condeming the US and Israel for pushing for war.’

        I find Witty’s posts quite useful. It’s educational for me to watch a Hasbarist’s arguments completely and consistently deconstructed.

    • Donald
      January 15, 2012, 12:26 am

      “Iran has stated that it has no intention of constructing nuclear weapons, but is enriching uranium to weapons grade (20% enrichment).”

      20 percent isn’t weapons grade.

      “Collective punishment onto all Israelis threatened (including potential destruction of Al-Quds) for insisting that Iran not pursue nuclear weapons, and also cease supporting proxy military attacks on Israel.”

      Not a word of condemnation or acknowledgment of apparent Israeli terrorism against Iran. And those “proxy military attacks” come from people who would say that Israel has been attacking them. But we know how your mind works, Richard. The aggression always starts with someone attacking poor innocent Israel.

      “Please don’t appease (yes, appease). Actually ask Iran to lighten up, to change,”

      This is confused. “Asking” Iran to lighten up is fine with me. It’s a nasty repressive government. But hardliners in the US and Israel would call that appeasement.

    • MRW
      January 15, 2012, 3:09 am

      Don’t you ever read my responses to you?

      Weapons enrichment is 92%.

      Medical isotopes are 20%, and Iran got that from Russia.

      Iran has only enriched to 5%, if that.

      Power plants ONLY require 5% enrichment. Max.

      Get this through your head once and for all. Jesus, I’ve been writing this for over two years. I told you to read Gareth Porter.

  29. Richard Witty
    January 14, 2012, 9:04 am

    It would also be wonderful if in YOUR article you noted that the operation was reported to be in 2006-7, and not currently as implied by the headline at most’ first read.

    link to haaretz.com

    Also, this comment is important.

    “Memo buried deep in CIA archives”, “debunks”.

    • kalithea
      January 14, 2012, 11:55 am

      IDEM.

    • justicewillprevail
      January 14, 2012, 12:36 pm

      Whitewash, divert, pontificate – the Witty MO

    • lysias
      January 14, 2012, 1:00 pm

      Just 2006-7?

      From Juan Cole’s posting on this:

      Among Jundullah operations was a July, 2010, bombing of a Shiite mosque in Zahedan in July of 2010– which killed 27 innocent civilians and injured 169. It was blamed by Shiite authorities on the United States.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 4:12 pm

        lysias, it is my recollection another iranian nuclear specialist was killed in that incident or one directly connected to it.

    • Shingo
      January 14, 2012, 4:03 pm

      It would also be wonderful if in YOUR article you noted that the operation was reported to be in 2006-7, and not currently as implied by the headline at most’ first read.

      The murder of the scientis happend this week you idiot, therefore the operations are continuing.

  30. Kathleen
    January 14, 2012, 9:53 am

    Flynt and Hillary Mann Leverett put up a reaction to the Perry piece yesterday. Forgot to mention over here after I read.

    WHO’S RUNNING COVERT OPS AGAINST IRAN? THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION PROTESTS TOO LITTLE.
    Posted on January 13th, 2012 under general with 75 replies.

    A rising tide of commentary attributes the most recent assassination of a scientist connected with Iran’s nuclear or missile programs—and perhaps previous killings of Iranian scientists—to Israel. The Obama Administration has publicly disavowed any involvement in the killings. Today, Mark Perry published an important article, see here, citing multiple current and retired U.S. intelligence officials as saying that what the Iranian government, several other foreign governments, and any number of Western journalists have perceived as clandestine U.S. support for the Balochi separatist group, Jundallah, is, in fact, a “false flag” operation conducted by Israel’s Mossad without Washington’s approval.”

    Alex I noticed that soon after I posted the Perry article on your thread yesterday you removed it. Fine but a thank you is always a polite response. Something folks should learn at a very young age. Seems like a thank you only happens here if you are part of the inner circle. Sad and impolite. Build your team with a simple thank you.

    Prof Cole has one up about this topic
    Israeli Mossad Agents allegedly Impersonated CIA in fostering Baluch Terrorism against Iran
    Posted on 01/14/2012 by Juan
    Mark Perry reveals that Israeli Mossad intelligence operatives pretended to be American field officers when contacting members of the Baluch Jundullah terrorist group, presumably in Pakistan, and funding and encouraging Jundullah to blow up targets in Iran.
    —————————————————————————

    I did not hear a mention about this Mossad posing as CIA on MSNBC last night. Anyone else?
    This morning on MSNBC was interesting to hear Chris Hayes and Alex Witt totally avoid Rep Pauls second place win and that he is also in third place in the polls in South Carolina

  31. Les
    January 14, 2012, 11:12 am

    Archimedes: “Give me a place to stand and with a lever I will move the whole world.”

  32. Kathleen
    January 14, 2012, 11:45 am

    Over at Huff Po unable to put up comments on the these two threads. Can get on all other threads Could someone else try to leave a comment.

    Iran Claims US Behind Nuclear Scientist’s Death
    Bomb Kills At Least 53 Shiite Pilgrims In South Iraq

  33. Kathleen
    January 14, 2012, 1:06 pm

    All over at Race for Iran
    MIDDLE EAST NEWS
    JANUARY 14, 2012.U.S. Warns Israel on Strike
    Officials Lobby Against Attack on Iran as Military Leaders Bolster Defenses .

    ———————————————————————Iran Says CIA Behind Scientist’s Killing

    Text Size- / +By NASSER KARIMI Associated Press
    TEHRAN, Iran January 14, 2012 (AP)

    Iran said Saturday it has evidence that the United States was behind the assassination of an Iranian nuclear scientist this week in Tehran, state media reported.

    Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan was killed in a brazen daylight assassination Wednesday when two assailants on a motorcycle attached a magnetic bomb to his car in the Iranian capital. The killing bore a strong resemblance to earlier killings of scientists working on the Iranian nuclear program, and has prompted calls in Iran for retaliation against those deemed responsible
    The IRNA state news agency said Saturday that Iran’s Foreign Ministry has sent a diplomatic letter to the U.S. saying that it has “evidence and reliable information” that the CIA provided “guidance, support and planning” to assassins “directly involved” in Roshan’s killing.

    The U.S. has denied any role in the assassination.

    Iran delivered the letter to the Swiss Embassy in Tehran, which looks after U.S. interests in the country. Iran and the U.S. have had no diplomatic relations since the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

    Ahmadi Roshan, who they say was killed in a bomb blast in Tehran, Iran, on Wednesday, Jan. 11, 2012, next to his son. Two assailants on a motorcycle attached a magnetic bomb to the car of an Iranian university professor working at a key nuclear facility, killing him and his driver Wednesday, reports said. The slayings suggest a widening covert effort to set back Iran’s atomic program. The blast killed Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, a chemistry expert and a director of the Natanz uranium enrichment facility in central Iran, state TV reported. (AP Photo/Fars News Agency) CloseIRNA also reported that Iran delivered a letter to Britain accusing London of having an “obvious role” in the killing. It said that a series of assassinations began after British intelligence chief John Sawers hinted in 2010 at intelligence operations against the Islamic Republic.

    British media have quoted Sawers as saying that intelligence-led operations were needed to make it more difficult for countries like Iran to develop nuclear weapons.

    Britain’s Foreign Office has condemned the killing of civilians. Israeli officials, in contrast, have hinted at covert campaigns against Iran without directly admitting involvement.

    The killing has sparked outrage in Iran, and state TV broadcast footage Saturday of hundreds of students marching in Tehran to condemn Roshan’s death and calling for the continuation of the country’s disputed nuclear program.

    The U.S. and its allies fear Iran’s program aims to develop nuclear weapons. Iran denies the charges, and says its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes only.

    In the clearest sign yet that Iran is preparing to strike back for Roshan’s killing, Gen. Masoud Jazayeri, the spokesman for Iran’s Joint Armed Forces Staff, was quoted by the semiofficial ISNA news agency Saturday as saying that Tehran was “reviewing the punishment” of “behind-the-scene elements” involved in the assassination.

    “Iran’s response will be a tormenting one for supporters of state terrorism,” he said, without elaborating. “The enemies of the Iranian nation, especially the United States, Britain and the Zionist regime, or Israel, have to be held responsible for their activities.”

    Jazayeri also accused the International Atomic Energy Agency of being partially to blame, saying that the U.N. nuclear watchdog made public a list of Iranian nuclear scientists and officials that “has provided the possibility of their identification and targeting by spy networks

    • lysias
      January 14, 2012, 1:17 pm

      Anybody have any ideas about what kind of evidence the Iranians might have?

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2012, 1:27 pm

        lysias, this news just went out all over the msm early this morning (i drafted it but not sure when the new posts are going up today) and i’ve looked and none of the reports mention how tehran knows this. wrt the main story tho, as the first blockquote suggests, it doesn’r sound like te news came from the iranians, but the “two U.S. intelligence officials”.

        but, upon speculation i would imagine it might be related to the way dubia operated. hightech monitoring and familiarization w/people in operation.

      • iamuglow
        January 14, 2012, 11:04 pm

        This story is up on Yahoo now from Reuters

        link to news.yahoo.com

        “Iran sends rare letter to U.S. over killed scientist”

        “…We have reliable documents and evidence that this terrorist act was planned, guided and supported by the CIA,” the Iranian foreign ministry said in a letter handed to the Swiss ambassador in Tehran, state TV reported. The Swiss embassy represents U.S. interests in a country where Washington has no diplomatic ties.”

        The article does a decent/rare job talking about the sanctions and its effect on the Iranian economy….almost a sympathtic telling.

        Another theory could be the the story was leaked to FP so as to have plausability for denying this Iranian evidence. Not sure would work though as it would mean then the US would have to answer for Israel impersonating the CIA now.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 15, 2012, 12:19 am

        iamuglow, this is the same letter and quote i sited from reuters earlier, you commented on the thread:

        link to mondoweiss.net

        ;) i think it has spread like wildfire by now. when i first saw it this morning it was breaking, but news like this doesn’t keep quiet.

      • iamuglow
        January 15, 2012, 12:42 am

        My bad. I didn’t notice the bit about them sending a letter until tonight.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 15, 2012, 1:05 am

        no worries ;)

  34. Kathleen
    January 14, 2012, 1:27 pm

    LOOK AT THE COMMENTS THAT HUFF PO FILTER FOLKS ARE ALLOWING TO GO THROUGH ON THEIR IRAN SCIENTIST KILLED THREAD

    Raiderthree 255 Fans
    Become a fan Unfan 1 minute ago( 1:20 PM) Good job to who ever did it! Now if they could only get rid of Atsmydinne­rjacket the Iranian people would sing in the streets.

    CanadaStan
    Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam 132 Fans
    Become a fan Unfan 11 minutes ago( 1:10 PM) Good work boys.
    Faster please.

    HUFFPOST SUPER USER
    lenguss 91 Fans
    Become a fan Unfan 17 minutes ago( 1:07 PM) I hope so. Better to kill every one associated with their program, in Iran and out, before we or someone else has to nuke Teheran. Nuclear weapons in the hands of an insane government are the key to world disaster.
    Favorite (3) Flag as Abusive lenguss: I hope so. Better to kill every one associated with
    link to huffingtonpost.com
    History | Permalink | Share it HUFFPOST SUPER USER
    cathleen 215 Fans 12 minutes ago( 1:13 PM) I am amazed that Huff Po allows comments like this up. If people were making these kinds of comments about Israel or Jews this comment would not make it up. Take this down now

  35. Kathleen
    January 14, 2012, 1:44 pm

    Just amazed by what the filterer over at Huff Po is letting through on the Iran thread

    HUFFPOST SUPER USER
    splendidbeast 43 Fans
    Become a fan Unfan 5 minutes ago( 1:23 PM) Did anyone get to pee on him?

    RussT
    A system of reward, not entitlements. 787 Fans
    Become a fan Unfan 46 minutes ago(12:51 PM) Who ever is carrying out these assasinati­ons is doing it in briliant fashion. It’s hard to employ bombs without having collateral damage. So far so good.

    • CloakAndDagger
      January 14, 2012, 3:11 pm

      @ Kathleen,

      Take a look at the timestamps on those messages – they are all during Israel hours. If you look at the current ones (during US hours) they are much more sane.

      I don’t read HuffPo anymore since it is now virulently infested by hasbarist commenters, whose only purpose is to stifle any sane discussion on any ME issues using the vilest of positions and ad hominem attacks.

      Moreover, since the AOL purchase, the quality of journalism at HuffPo has definitely tanked. My litmus test these days for the MSM/MSM-lite is to see how they portray Ron Paul. HuffPo has definitely been on the same page as CNN/Fox/…

      So, save your blood pressure – stay off HuffPo. Our numbers are growing, but we still need to pick our battles and preserve our morale as we stand defiant of the encroaching darkness.

      • Kathleen
        January 14, 2012, 5:12 pm

        I get a great deal of important information up at Huff Po. Way to spread accurate information bring people to Race for Iran, Informed Comment, Mondoweiss, international reports etc.

        Just so obviously racist and hateful towards Iranians. Outrageous comments that Huff Po would not allow to go through if this had been an American, Israeli scientist. An African American scientist. Do you think Huff Po would allow comments through like “did anyone pee on him” “good job to who ever did it” No way Huff Po would let this through if a Jewish scientist had been killed. Screams of anti semitism would have shut the thread down. The filter team over there would never have allowed that to go through. Yet they let it go through when it comes to an Iranian scientist. Something smells over there at Huff Po and it smells like bigotry and racism

      • iamuglow
        January 14, 2012, 7:47 pm

        “Way to spread accurate information bring people to Race for Iran, Informed Comment, Mondoweiss, international reports etc. ”

        Right on. I’m a big fan of this type of activism. Get to Mondo and they’ll learn something. It works.

      • Ellen
        January 14, 2012, 5:28 pm

        Exactly….Huffpo has morphed into a filthy corner of internet propaganda and soft porn and sick violence or whatever it takes to get clicks.

        Why enrich the site with comments? Who reads it? Most left it a a year or more ago.

  36. Kathleen
    January 14, 2012, 1:52 pm

    Sure seems like Perry’s article was trying to trump what was coming
    Interviewer: “how important is the release of these memos”

    Perry: “The US has not been lying. We do not target foreign nationals. Especially officials of a foreign government. And especially considering the sensitivity of our relationship with Iran. We would not do this”

    The timing of this is something. After the Obama administration accused upper level Iranian officials of being involved with Iran’s alleged plan to knock of the Saudi Ambassador.

  37. Justice Please
    January 14, 2012, 2:22 pm

    Thanks for posting this important story.

  38. traintosiberia
    January 14, 2012, 3:41 pm

    “i think most americans, the majority i assume who personally have jewish acquaintances, will not judge every jew as if they run in a pack.”

    They never run in a pack. None does. But in case of Israel (including the period when it was cooking in the brain of Herzl and Jabotinsky to 1948 ) it was always same rabid pack who wont contemplate any alternative to lies,deceit,illegal activities,preemptive wars,and manipulation of its powerful “friends” , only and always has come out on the top.

  39. Citizen
    January 14, 2012, 4:27 pm

    This not directly related, but I think maybe some here would like to see what Mitchell has to say now that he’s out of the picture as solver of the I-P conflict–I was pretty disappointed as he seems to be a hack (former) diplomat–maybe that just goes with the position–except he did much better in Ireland, of course was there twice as long:

    George Mitchell, speaking on ME peace process at meeting sponsored by The Atlantic, last Thursday, at Abraham Center: Israel cannot have assured security they want until Palestinians have a state. By 2020 there will be about a half million more arabs than Jews and Israel will have to choose. In time, Palestinians will have more and better rockets, just as Hizbollah has. US 60 yr commitment to Israel that will not diminish regardless of change in US regimes. (Guess he considers Ron Paul an invention?) Every sensible Arab today would gladly accept the 1948 plan if it was available, but it will never be available again. All evidence says Palestinians will get less. Israel and Palestinians can only progress in unison.

    Q & A:

    Jeff Goldberg:
    Candy Rice said Obama Amin missed an opportunity for peace Oslo-style by demanding a settlement freeze.

    Mitchell:

    Bibi has been consistent in private and public: He would not pick up peace process where Oslo left off.

    Goldberg: Why did Obama go public
    with demand for settlement freeze, and sans a Plan B?

    Mitchell:

    Every American Administration since 1967 has opposed Israel’s settlement policy. In the road map proposed to Bush there is explicit reference to this US policy of 43 yrs. Obama’s did not differ. But we did not make clear that the proposal was not isolated from all 3 players, the Arabs, Pals, Israelis. There has to be a settlement freeze first, and so we proposed it. Obama asked Arabs to take limited steps and Pals too while Israel was freezing the settlements. We asked for moratorium, a temporary freeze, which was more than Israel had ever done before, but less than what our official policy called for.

    Goldberg:

    Settlements are not root cause but important cause of the problem?

    Mitchell: Yes. Jerusalem is a Muslim issue. Takes consent & approval of many in world of Islam additional to Palestinians to agree on this issue.
    Israelis would not fully freeze all settlements, just to halt new housing construction–a first itself. Palestinians rejected this as worse than useless, but 9 months later they said extension of moratorium was needed. Actual suspension of new settlement construction was one month only.

    You don’t settle problems by choosing to respond with inflammatory language.
    The NYT focused on 6% of what we did not accomplish in our negotiations, but did not mention the 94% we did.

    Once you resolve borders, you resolve the settlement issue. I kept telling the Palestinians.

    Goldberg:

    Why doesn’t the US dock aid package to Israel in proportion to Israeli settlement expansion?

    Mitchell: Both Israel and Palestinians are dependent on aid from US, so the aid cut leverage doesn’t work despite fact Israel gets so much more aid–they are also less dependent on it than Palestinians are on the small amount they get. (This seems facile)

    Goldberg:

    How important is “Jewish national quality” to the peace process?

    Mitchell: Palestinians accept the reality of Israel although they don’t like it; they know it is not going anywhere and they have to live with it somehow.

    Goldberg: “If you were a Palestinian…”

    Mitchell: When it is over, as in Ireland, US is going home.

    Goldberg:
    Does Obama like Israel?

    Yes, I think he does. Missile defense it the real problem. US just keeps giving more missile defense to Israel, to protect it.

    Goldberg:

    What is most admirable characteristic of Bibi?

    Mitchell:
    He’s strong, consistent, serious. Abbas wants same; both want peace on their own terms. All publics hold inconsistent views. How to reconcile?

    When Bush Sr was in office, at congressional town hall meeting, a senior told me how embarrassed he was as he said I was fighting with opponents like babies (about medicare).

    Goldberg:

    Settlement movement: What needs to happen among Israelis to move settlers from West Bank?

    Mitchell:

    I’m not an expert on the subject. Many studies made of motives of settlers moving to Israel in first place. Israeli government can’t point to any over-arching thing they get out of the settlements. (Really?) Leaving Lebanon and Gaza not relevant. (Why?)

    Goldberg:

    Israeli society has changed, e.g., have Israeli diplomat US won’t meet as he is too right wing; and we have fanatical settlers….?

    Mitchell:

    US has right to choose its officials, and same does Israel. Of course societies change. Hasn’t America’s? Yes, some of the changes make things worse. Separation of church and state is common problem. Need to look for right thing plus overall benefit to the people. If You believe in security of Israel, you have to accept only way to assure it is make peace with Palestinians. How to persuade the people?

    Audience Q:

    Obama spoke eloquently about Jewish sufffering at UN, but not about the Palestinians….bias?

    Mitchell:
    It is true US is close ally of Israel & visa versa. I believe Obama is fully committed to Palestinian state, that is, he likes the Palestinians.

    Audience Q2: ?

    Mitchell:

    Organizing, training, funding of Palestinian security force has produced secondary good economic result. Should now take middle steps, such as extending that force into more of the alphabet areas to assist further economic growth. Much more can be done here by Israel/US.

    Audience Q3

    Has Bib ever actually proposed a border with map? Pals have.

    Mitchell:

    Bibi did not; he anticipated talks would continue; I wanted to discuss full range of Pal proposals; we made no bridging proposals as insufficient time–there was nothing to bridge when talks terminated. We were prepared to though.

    Audience Q4: You did 5 yrs in Ireland, a couple here…

    Mitchell: I was clear at outset I committed to 2 yrs on I-P; I stayed 2.5 yrs.

    Audience:

    Shift in democratic values in Israel concerns me…
    Settlers use to be bargaining chip, but is now much more as so many more, why should anyone trust the Jews on this?
    What does Arab Spring mean?

    Mitchell:

    Arab Spring: human nature where turbulence, uncertainty, to pause, not take any steps–both Israel and Pals are at pause. It’s naive to assume bad guy will always be replaced by better guy. Some will turn out well, some won’t. Pals are still firing rockets from Gaza although WB is secure for Israel. I think the right of self-government means what it says, people decide their future, which is the Arab Spring as it came from within from the indigenous people. And so must Israelis and Pals do the same. (Nothing about the gigantic imbalance of power and on-going oppression of the Pals–he could have drawn the link since Arab Spring is all about oppression within each state involved.)

    Easy to get in war, hard to get out. Iran has rockets than can reach Israel. If they were attacked, they would launch them. If Iran gets nukes, this could destablize the non-proliferation regime of 9 countries. (Nothing on Israel not being a part of this). If Iran gets nukes, others will want them in ME. People in countries who have nukes think their country should have them.

    • Hostage
      January 15, 2012, 12:49 am

      We asked for moratorium, a temporary freeze, which was more than Israel had ever done before, but less than what our official policy called for.

      Well duh! It isn’t our policy, it is the policy of the Security Council and the Middle East Quartet. The Quartet Road Map cited the so-called “Mitchell” report, which was actually authored in collaboration with a committee that included Senator Warren Rudmann and several other members.

      The Road Map still requires an end to construction in the settlements, including natural growth. The Palestine Papers revealed that George Mitchell and President Obama unilaterally abandoned the agreed-upon Quartet terms of reference (TOR). Those TOR, including UN membership within interim borders have been endorsed by the Security Council in resolution 1515. The Palestinians need to rub Obama’s nose in the fertilizer that the US is shoveling about unilateralism.

  40. NorthOfFortyNine
    January 14, 2012, 4:57 pm

    Best analysis on the Perry article yet:

    Why is the story of the Jundallah operations, carried out according to Perry in 2007-2009 and reaching its climax in the late Bush years, coming out now? I think the best answer is that this is a signal from the Obama administration to stop its terror campaign in Iran. Another Iranian scientist was murdered this week, along with some members of his family, much to the delight of the Israeli media. The Chief of Staff of the IDF joked about “unnatural events” in Iran, and the media lapped it up.

    link to ygurvitz.net

    • NorthOfFortyNine
      January 14, 2012, 5:24 pm

      The more I think of this, the more it is apparent that this is an Obama leak designed to a) signal the Iranians that they want the nonesense to stop and b) signal the Israelis to stop the nonsense, because they have more dirt where that came from.

      Sharpening my views are the fact that the memos come from the W era. It would not have played as well if Obama were seen to have complained. Instead, they laid it off on W. Clever. -N49.

    • Danaa
      January 14, 2012, 8:45 pm

      Here’s the comment I just put up on Gurvitz’s article (couldn’t resist):

      This propensity for false flag operations should also raise a few alarms about what’s really behind the unrest in Syria. It would be hardly surprising if the flames were being fanned by Israeli agents, using Syrian recruits and exploiting actual dissatisfaction with Assad. It really doesn’t take much to turn a people’s challenge into a ‘revolution”. All it needs is a committed agitator. It is quite possible that the ‘crimes” of Assad were a necessary response to a challenge more insiduous than just citizen unrest. I am not saying there’s no real resistance to the Syrian government. But there was real resistance also to Israel’s government (cf J14). If an agent provacateur with means and resources stepped into the midst of the J14 protests, what would it have taken to turn real ugly real quick?

      And what about the sudden “crowds” who popped up to challenge Putin and this party? strange that it should all happen about the same way as the color “revolutions”. Many of which ended up – amazingly – bringing even greater tyrany to power than the one displaced. the main rallying cry one could discern from the demonstrators is that it ‘was time for Putin to go”. Why? no one who was interviewed from among the protesters seemed to be very clear on that.

      Given what israeli agents are willing to do, their brazeness given the American bought congress behind them providing cover, and their sheer bloody-mindedness of their operatives who give not a hoot about lives not israeli (or at least semi-jewish), I would put absolutely nothing past them.

      Unfortunately the decision to bomb Iran and kill who knows how many un-persons (to quote Chomsky) seems to have been made by the israeli hegemons. The only two powers that can stop them are Russia and China. hence the demonstrations “against” Putin that materialized out of thin air. haven’t figured out yet what israel holds over China. maybe a threat to its satellites. maybe a nuclear conflagrations (China hates disorder).

      • iamuglow
        January 14, 2012, 11:16 pm

        “This propensity for false flag operations should also raise a few alarms about what’s really behind the unrest in Syria”

        Its also a reminder of the far fetched Iranian/Mexican cartel plot that was uncovered a few months ago. If the Israelis were impersonating CIA agents to implicate the US for outright terrorism in Iran, its not a stretch to imagine them lining up that plot to get the US to have cause belli for a conflict with Iran.

        Its hard to imagine the US not considering that when they went that public with that plot…maybe it was such a welcome opening to get tough on Iran that they didn’t care.

      • MRW
        January 15, 2012, 5:32 am

        Could not agree more, Danaa. But I think Israel wants to gain a toehold in China, but China has their number. It’s playing with Israel, like a cat batting a mouse. They wouldn’t let the Rothschild Bank in at the last moment two or three years ago, maybe longer, after that devastating Chinese book detailed how the Rothschilds acted over the centuries. Lynn Forester de Rothschild sniffed about it, said India was better anyway.

      • marc b.
        January 15, 2012, 9:54 am

        have not followed this thread closely, but will go back and read comments and links, but along with china, little attention given to india and pakistan, vis-a-vis this story. many claimed links between ISI and jundallah, as well as other pakistani terrorists. david headly, i believe, has testified that he was working for the ISI when the mumbai attacks were carried out. and there is still that later bit of unsolved mayhem in mumbai from july 2011 whereby bombs were exploded in the zaveri bazaar, india’s largest diamond tradnig center.

        from hindustan times of july 14, 2011:

        The road from Opera House to Zaveri Bazaar, another site of last evening’s blasts, is lined with graffiti-adorned walls and messages condemning the November 2008 attacks on the city. The now rain-smudged red and black paint of the graffiti also seems to mourn the futility of these messages.

        Between Opera House and Zaveri Bazar is the diamond processing hub and industry and it has borne the brunt of terror attacks in the past too.

        Though the trade is unlikely to be impacted, business sentiment will, say industry representatives. The cutting and polishing industry works on wafer thin margins and consistent attacks destabilise the trade, say merchants.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 15, 2012, 10:40 am

        marc b. . the baluch, for the most part, do not consider themselves pakistani. even if they are not part of the separatist movement they are nationalists. check out some of their media:

        link to balochmedia.org

      • Danaa
        January 15, 2012, 12:57 pm

        MRW, what is that Chinese book you are talking about? is it something that’s been translated? TX for the info.

      • MRW
        January 15, 2012, 2:04 pm

        Danaa, been searching for it in my archives. (goddam my filing system sometimes. ;-)) Don’t know if it’s been translated, but Xinhua wire service gave a lengthy description of it. It is a Chinese business book, written by one of their top business reporters, which was why it was a bestseller. And it specifically said that the book squirreled the bank deal.

        Will let you know even I OT another thread when I see you.

    • iamuglow
      January 14, 2012, 11:23 pm

      That is a good article. Thanks.

  41. AJM
    January 14, 2012, 5:40 pm

    Perhaps Israel has signed US/Iranian Amir Mirzaei Hekmatis death warrant. Of course Iran will be ultimately responsible if they carry out the death sentence, but there’s bound to be blow back from Mossad posing as Americans? Same as using European, Australian passports for their dirty work in Dubai. These actions put ‘allied’ lives at risk, never mind the wider Palestinian injustices. The Muslim world has enough justifiable grievance to aim at the US/UK. Israel continually provides more and more ammunition. They seem to purposefully blur the lines between Israeli and Western covert actions. These days MI6 claims not to engage in direct assassinations; the CIA has its quasi-military drone program, JSOC kill & capture missions, and probably supports all kinds of violent non-state actors, but to direct individual targeted assassinations, on a developed countries (even Iran) civilians, just doesn’t sound like the CIA’s MO. Admittedly its hard to know the true MO of secret services, but ever since the drubbing the ‘rogue elephant’ got in the Church Committee hearings, they seem to have resolved never to be humiliated like that again through reckless Castro-style plots. 9/11 may have provided the pretext to take off the gloves in the ‘war on terror’, but dealing with nations is very different. The CIA is also more transparent than most of their counterparts, including MI6. More likely to try and pay off a scientist, offer him/her the American Dream. How long will the West continue to carry Israels water? I’m sure there is plenty of disquiet from Western Civil Servants – diplomatic, military, intelligence – unfortunately politicians wont listen, they cant see past the next election. I cant see a UN resolution condemning these terrorist actions, as Iran rightly demands. Israel is a rogue elephant rampaging out of control.

  42. split
    January 14, 2012, 7:17 pm

    With “friends” like this who needs enemies ,…

  43. Richard Witty
    January 14, 2012, 10:37 pm

    Question about people’s assumptions about Iran.

    Do you think that they are that crazy that they would respond to a limited targeted attack on military targets, with retaliation on Israeli civilians?

    Do you fear that they would over-react?

    • Shingo
      January 15, 2012, 5:34 am

      Do you think that they are that crazy that they would respond to a limited targeted attack on military targets, with retaliation on Israeli civilians?

      If they are not crazy, then why the need for any attack whatsoever?

      Do you fear that they would over-react?

      Wars never go according to plan. Any response by Iran would be coupled with strikes by Hezbollah. Even Russia has said that any attack on Iran would be considered an attack on Russia’s security.

      How long dfo you tyhin your little convenient contatined attack scenario would remain contained Witty? How do you like the sound of Russian missiles lancing in Tel Aviv, the kind that are guided, porecise and unstopplable?

      Do you think Israel might over react?

    • Citizen
      January 15, 2012, 9:46 am

      Clawson says Iran would not likely respond harshly to such assassinations because they are mere blips and wouldn’t cause much of a stir where the Iranians Street would get significantly outraged. The problem is how many will there be; five is not enough for Israel, who banks on its close association with the US to stir up the pot–towards Uncle Sam stumbling into war, basically doing Israel’s own job it set for itself. The pattern of such pinpricks, when viewed in this context, and the increasingly severe economic sanctions on Iran–the Iranian Central Bank cut off, its oil, the fact that 80% of Iran’s income comes from its oil, the 15000 US boots deployed to Bahrain, the 9,000 to Israel plus new missile systems & operators, the US radar station in Israel, the bunker busters Obama recently gave Israel, and Bibi has the chief decision manipulator and his shadow campaign on the GOP right here in the USA, etc

    • AJM
      January 15, 2012, 2:22 pm

      Do you think the Israelis are crazy enough to believe that a ‘limited targeted attack on military targets’ would have no Iranian civilian casualties? Any attack on civilian nuclear power installations is a terrorist attack, never mind the ‘collateral damage’.

      Your question should be – do you think Iran is likely to stoop to Israels level, respond in kind by attacking Israeli civilians. I hope they’d retain the moral high ground. It can be argued that Israel is already at war with Iran and if they strike Iran, thats an act of war. Iran would have a right to strike back. btw, I’m sure plenty of brave souls will volunteer to be human shields.

    • American
      January 15, 2012, 3:21 pm

      Do you think that they are that crazy that they would respond to a limited targeted attack on military targets, with retaliation on Israeli civilians?
      Do you fear that they would over-react?”…witty

      Er…..Richard…Israel striking Iran, anything in Iran would be an act of war.
      You know what Act of War means?
      Try to get out of the habit of thinking Israel because it’s a Jewish State has the right to do anything it wants without attacked back.

  44. pjdude
    January 15, 2012, 12:33 am

    Israel harming the us yet again. this fiction that they are allies to the us needs to end.

  45. G. Seauton
    January 15, 2012, 1:11 am

    The real question, in my opinion, is this: how much is too much? At what point does the U.S. say no to Israel?

    My tentative answer, for the moment, is that the U.S. will not go to war against Iran for Israel. Now, I know that the Paul supporters will instantly call me naive, ignorant, or stupid, but I’m familiar with this ad hominem and couldn’t care less about silly name calling. My view is that the U.S. will not go to war with Iran because the U.S. military knows (and will communicate its point of view to the president) that the U.S. military will have great difficulty making war against Iran, both on the ground and in the Strait of Hormuz. No one will call it a “cake walk.”

    The U.S. will not do a kamikaze mission for Israel.

    And if you think the contrary about Obama, you would have to imagine that war would begin within the next 10 months. After the election, it no longer matters what Netanyahu wants if Obama is still president. So you have to imagine that Obama will make war on Iran before November. And if you think about it further, in order to avoid electoral chaos, he would really have to think that he needs to make war on Iran at least a couple of months before November, in order to clarify his message and rally the country behind such an adventure; otherwise, he runs the risk that everyone would be so freaked out that they would automatically vote for his opponent. So let’s face it: Obama actually has about 8 months to prepare for and launch war on Iran.

    Not that it couldn’t be done. But did you hear Panetta’s most recent remarks? They don’t seem to indicate a war in the offing.

    So a war on Iran would have to come from a Republican president? And that’s why you support Ron Paul? Bravo! Keep supporting him, and go all the way! Urge him to run as a third-party candidate! That will definitely ensure that no U.S. war against Iran will ever occur.

    OK, so let’s assume for the moment that there will be no war against Iran. At what other point would the U.S. say no to Israel? This is the ultimate question, now that we’ve put the war issue aside. First, does the question make a case for Zionist Occupied Government? Is the question even relevant? Frankly, I don’t think so. “Zionist Occupied Government” is, after all, a metaphor, used for inflammatory and propagandistic purposes (true anti-Semitism). Zionist influenced government is the government we actually have.

    The U.S. will NOT say no to Israel with respect to aid. This much seems clear. George H. W. Bush threatened to cut off aid but never did. No one since has even dared to make such a threat.

    Really, I have no answer to the question. It seems to me that the U.S. will do whatever Israel wants short of making war on Iran. I’m interested in hearing anyone else’s answer.

    • Shingo
      January 15, 2012, 5:37 am

      My view is that the U.S. will not go to war with Iran because the U.S. military knows (and will communicate its point of view to the president) that the U.S. military will have great difficulty making war against Iran, both on the ground and in the Strait of Hormuz. No one will call it a “cake walk.”

      The problem isn’t only whether teh US would go to war against Iran, it’s that Iran would regad the US as complicit. Not only would an attack require US approval and assistance, but the US would have supplied the plances, the fuel and the bunker busters.

      With that in mind, who’s t osay Iran would not attack US warships in the Gulf, or cimply shut of the Straights and choke the world’s economy?

      • MHughes976
        January 15, 2012, 8:12 am

        One problem, I think, is that ‘all means short of war’ really amount to war, or at least to hostility so intense, so active, so relentless that the other side can in the end see no difference between this campaign of hostility and a plainly military campaign.

      • Citizen
        January 15, 2012, 9:58 am

        Clawson says the US would have to knock out Iran’s nuke sites, a problem itself, and also its oil structure, and all of that would involve much more than the armchair notion of pinpoint bombs a la what the US military showed us all as to Iraq–and we all know the real results. Further, Iran after attack would then have much more reason to reestablish its nuke program and every Iranian would think so. How do you stop that? No way US will occupy Iran for 8 years.

  46. ToivoS
    January 15, 2012, 2:21 am

    There is something else about this Mark Perry story that just occurred to me. He says that the Israelis were more or less openly working to recruit Junalla terrorists. Openly in the spook world probably means not going out of their way to hide it from CIA personal. This must have occurred in Baluchistan which means that the CIA had their own agents there. This supports what Hirsh wrote in the New Yorker a few years back. In any case it seems likely that the CIA was cooking up some plots of their own with Junallas.

  47. Talkback
    January 15, 2012, 6:45 am

    Time Magazine:

    “Who Assassinated an Iranian Nuclear Scientist? Israel Isn’t Telling

    Like three previous Iranian scientists ambushed on their morning commute, the latest nuclear expert to die on his way to work was a victim of Israel’s Mossad, Western intelligence sources tell TIME. …

    Wednesday’s attack followed the pattern of previous operations planned by Mossad and carried out over the past two years by Iranians trained and paid by Israel’s spy agency, according to intelligence sources. …

    Israel is officially silent on the incident. However, its top spokesman for the country’s military posted this on Facebook: “Don’t know who settled the score with the Iranian scientist, but for sure I am not shedding a tear.” The Obama Administration insisted it had nothing to do with the attack. “The United States had absolutely nothing to do with this,” National Security Council spokesman Tommy Vietor declared. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made her denial of U.S. involvement “categorical.”

    The contrast in responses reflects the good-cop, bad-cop roles the allies have assumed in the international effort to dissuade Iran from pushing ahead with its nuclear program. ”
    link to time.com

  48. Citizen
    January 15, 2012, 10:37 am

    Obama regime is worried enough about Israeli attack on Iran that it is thinking twice about deploying (initially) 9,000 troops, plus advanced missile systems to integrate with Israel’s & US operators–because Obama worried Israel about to attack Iran: link to jpost.com

  49. Talkback
    January 15, 2012, 11:27 am

    Interviews with Mark Perry:

    ‘Israel, if you want to be welcome in U.S., don’t pull this kind of crap’
    link to 972mag.com

    Mark Perry speaks about allegations of Israeli spies posing as CIA agents

  50. Donald
    January 15, 2012, 12:03 pm

    I just checked their website and the NYT still seems to be ignoring the Perry story, unless I missed it someplace.

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