Restraint

“The Palestinian response to the establishment and expansion of Israel can be summed up in one word, restraint.”

Years ago James North said that to me, and I was surprised. But he said, “If you consider what they have lost and what we would do under similar circumstances, losing our land and homes — you would have to say they have shown great restraint.”

The other night I went to a talk on divestment in Westchester county, N.Y. Johnny Barber, who was in Gaza recently, showed some of his pictures.

Woman struck by Israeli shot
Palestinian woman struck by Israeli shot as she was harvesting wheat

He’d gone to Khuza’a in eastern Gaza for the wheat harvest. He showed us this picture of the family of a young woman who was shot in the head by Israeli soldiers as she gathered wheat.

“The bullet just scraped her forehead. She was very lucky. To get a flesh wound from an M16 bullet.”

The woman’s mother is upset in the photograph. And you can understand why. Farmers are afraid to approach their fields along the border, but they have no choice but to get their wheat. Barber showed us a video of a dozen people harvesting wheat by hand as Israeli soldiers on a hillock at a fence 300 yards away fire guns in the harvesters’ direction, harassing them.

A brave international volunteer for the International Solidarity Movement wearing a red fluorescent vest rises above the stands of wheat and uses a microphone to say over and over, “These are farmers on their own land. They are only harvesting their wheat.”

I thought, I’d never do what that international volunteer is doing. I’d rather be here, living my comfortable life and writing about the struggle.

Of course the villagers have no choice; they were born into this. And the shots kept whizzing across the field.

Why are the Palestinians harvesting by hand? Because when they bring tractors, they get shot up. So they use machetes.

And meantime cropdusters fly over the Israeli farms, just over the border. The wheat is being harvested there with fully mechanized equipment.

Then Barber showed us photographs of fishermen. Under Oslo, Gaza fishermen were to have 20 miles to fish. But they have been limited to three miles by Israeli warships that harass them with fire.

Angry fisherman Gaza 2
Angry fisherman, Gaza

This captain is upset. His friend holds out bullets. Barber said:

“The Israelis shot up his boat engine, destroying it. He is saying that the 5 men on his boat were fishing with handlines at 2-and-a-half miles when they were attacked and the engine was destroyed. He is saying it will cost 20,000 shekels ($5,000) to replace the engine. But these men make 5 to 10 shekels a day fishing. So now he can’t go out. And a total of 50 people depend on the men who go fishing in his boat.”

I’ve been in Gaza and on the beach meeting fishermen. But to see this picture in the United States, in Westchester County, on a lush spring day, and reflect that all of our political structures deny the reality of this man’s experience, and all leading Jewish organizations will say that this man and the wounded wheat-harvester had it coming — and there are just the handful of the people in that room, fighting back — I found myself weeping. I looked up and noticed the other Jews, Lynn Gottlieb, Rebecca Vilkomerson, a couple others, and felt grateful that they were there.

Of course, there is a long history of violent Palestinian resistance, to immigration, colonization and expansion, the Arab revolt and the intifadas to start with, the suicide bombers. Johnny Barber made a point of saying that there is resistance in Khuza’a. When the Israeli tanks come into the village fields, Palestinian fighters come into Khuza’a.

But would we do any differently? Yes: we would have done more. We would have guerrillas up in the hills, we would have international resistance support. We would be blowing people up right and left.

And still these people are denied the most basic right: to sustain themselves off their lands.

“The Palestinian response to the establishment and expansion of Israel can be summed up in one word, restraint.”

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.
Posted in Israel/Palestine, Israeli Government, Occupation | Tagged

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  1. Woody Tanaka says:

    It is indeed amazing that there exists such heroes as these Palestinians who live in the shadow of the relentless hell that zionism has brought on this Earth.

    If I were a religious man, I would pray to whatever god I believed in to dash the evil of zionism to the ground and grind it underfoot under nothing remains of it forever.

    • Samuel T says:

      “I would pray to whatever god I believed in to dash the evil [of zionism] to the ground and grind it underfoot under nothing remains of it forever.”
      Brackets [mine]

      Why just the “evil” of zionism? Why not just evil? Or are you concerned that when people are weighed in the balance, that some of your heroes may also be dashed to the ground and grind underfoot (until) nothing remains of them forever?

      An unjust deity would just increase evil in the World through prejudicial, unbalanced judgement.

      • Hostage says:

        An unjust deity would just increase evil in the World through prejudicial, unbalanced judgement.

        Well it doesn’t take much imagination to figure out what a just God would do to an army of soldiers that uses mothers for target practice when they are trying to glean a meager living for themselves and their young ones.

        The God of the Jewish scriptures wasn’t worried about balance. He promised to “judge you according to your own ways” and said “My eye will not spare, and I shall not pity.” Sounds like a good plan to me.

      • Woody Tanaka says:

        “Why just the ‘evil’ of zionism?”

        Frankly, I include it in there because there are a number of people who frequent this site who are incapable of distinguishing between a call for the eradication of an idea and the eradication of a people. I wasn’t specifying this evil above other evils, but clarifying the point that I was refering to the destruction of an ideology, and not wishing harm to any people.

  2. Dan Crowther says:

    “But would we do any differently? Yes: we would have done more. We would have guerrillas up in the hills, we would have international resistance support. We would be blowing people up right and left.”

    – Are you speaking for Jews here, Phil; Americans, both? I completely agree, but was just wondering.
    A Fmr Israeli Gen. Matti Peled once said he too hates terrorism, but when you are occupied by a powerful military force, you gotta do what you gotta do. I think his son Miko has been written about here…..(probably by annie, too lazy to check)

    • tombishop says:

      There is an excellent YouTube interview with Miki Peled: The General’s Son at

    • aiman says:

      Yes Miko Peled is Matti Peled’s son. I believe he wrote a rattling and brilliant critique of liberal Zionism which also appeared here. Nurit Peled-Elhana, Miko’s sister, has done equally good work on colonialist propaganda in Israeli school books which, if we compare to the foul propaganda in Saudi textbooks, has hardly received the attention it should. Miko and Nurit are great Jewish moral figures of our time.

      • Henry Norr says:

        Aside from the video interview and the articles that others have recommended, Miko Peled also has a new book called The General’s Son: Journey of an Israeli in Palestine from Helena Cobban’s Just World Books. I was hesitant about it, because I’ve had more than enough of anguished liberal Zionism, but I bought it anyway, and I’m glad – he really gets it, and it’s a wonderful book.

        As I was looking for the book’s page, I came across the following about Peled’s upcoming visit to the East Coast:

        Miko Peled, author of The General’s Son: Journey of an Israeli in Palestine, will be in New York City and Washington DC the week of June 18. Keep checking back for details of his appearances… Miko is a transformational figure in the Israeli peace movement and a great speaker and writer. He’ll be in NYC for the first couple of days, then in DC. On Wed., June 20, he’ll be speaking at a lunchtime event hosted by the Foundation for Middle East Peace in Washington, DC. The next day,, he’ll be at a lunchtime event at DC’s Palestine Center– details and RSVP for that one are here. But check back frequently– here, or on our Facebook page–for details of the other Miko Peled events we’re lining up!

  3. American says:

    Can you imagine what would have happen in 1948 in the United States if, say, the Jewish promised land had been Virginia or Texas or Maine and they done the same things here they did in Palestine?
    The nation of Israel would have lasted about 60 days ..or less.

    • Taxi says:

      “60 days”
      Your polite maths surprises me, American.

      We woulda stomped them into a pulp with our own merciless form of fascism – vaporized them within a handful of days.

    • Samuel T says:

      How “American” of you.

      Can you imagine what would have happened if the UN declared Israel as a Nation and then shortly thereafter they were attacked by surrounding Countries in an offensive manoeuvre? AND then in defence of Israel, a people that was scattered throughout the World, refugees returning to their homeland, fought valiantly and actually defeated the opposing forces, gaining more territory in the process?

      How long would the United States tolerate rockets being fired into Civilian populated areas? Well, instead of imagining, how about thinking back to two atomic bombings against the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in Japan. Fat man and Little boy, August 1945. BOOM!

      There I go again, confusing historical events with imagination. They are quite distinct aren’t they?

      • Elliot says:

        “refugees returning to their homeland”
        I have several close relatives from my parents and grandparents generation who moved to Palestine (for a while). They were Zionists of various stripes. I think at least some of them were enamored of living in a Mediterranean country rather than staying with the grayer option they were born into.
        Not one of them would have you used the disingenuous words you used to describe Jewish immigration to Palestine.

      • ritzl says:

        Joke, right? As so many others have said here at length, and provided copious evidence to support, this pure mythology is, well, pure mythology.

        Israel, you, its supporters, and the US Congress and Admin need to start embracing reality. OK, “need to” is such a subjective concept, so, well, let’s just say reality is starting to bite you all in the proverbial ass.

      • Sumud says:

        Can you imagine what would have happened if the UN declared Israel as a Nation and then shortly thereafter they were attacked by surrounding Countries in an offensive manoeuvre?

        Well that will always be pure speculation because the reality is quite different.

        The Arab States entered the Palestinian partition in mid-May 1948 to protect Palestinians *after* zionists forces have already ethnically cleansed somewhere between 250 and 400,000 Palestinians from inside Israel AND areas inside the Palestinian partition.

        The Arab states were undertaking a defensive action. It was the zionists who were acting offensively. In fact, the bulk of Israel’s casualties during the 1947/8/9 war occurred while undertaking offensive action outside the UN181 borders that Israel supposedly accepted.

        See Israelis historian Simha Flapan’s 1987 book The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities, pages 198/199 [my emphasis]:

        A little more than three weeks after the Israelis had declared their independence and the arab states had launched their invasion in order to “throttle the newborn state at birth”, the Israeli army went over to offensive action and remained in that position to the end.

        The Jewish casualty figures offer graphic ilustration of the shift. According to data assembled by Yochai Sela of Tel Aviv University, the number of Jewish deaths in the war was 5,708, including 4,558 soldiers. Among civilians, most casualties resulted from bombing and artillery fire, the majority in Jerusalem. Among the military, 1,345 were killed during the civil war, November 30,1947, to May 15, 1948; the remaining 3,213 were lost between May 15,1948 and March 10, 1949. More Israeli soldiers died while attacking than while defending against attacks by Palestinians and Arab armies. The number of Israelis killed within the borders of the state designated by the UN was 1,581, the number killed in the areas outside these borders was 2,759*. In a final breakdown, 984 Israelis were killed defending Jewish settlements, 1,212 died while attacking Arab settlements.

        A part of the mythology of the War of Independence asserts that most of the Jewish casualties were suffered in the defense of the Yishuv. The figures however tell a different story. They show that more than 50% of Jewish casualties were suffered in offensive actions and only 21% in defensive actions. Furthermore, 60% of all Jewish casualties occurred in actions outside the borders of the Jewish state.

        FYI Events in 1947/8/9 have been more than covered within the last day in comments on this article:

        link to mondoweiss.net

        • Blake says:

          I always raise my eyebrows at that word “independence” with regard to “Israel”. Independence from whom.

        • Cliff says:

          Sumud, thank you for commenting. I know how irritating it must be to repeat these same counter-arguments to dispel old, stale hasbara by new, recycled ZioBots (or sock-puppet accounts).

          I’ve seen Shingo doing the same on Prof. Walt’s blog as well sometimes (I think).

          I admire your patience and fortitude. In a way though, it’s good intellectual stimulation. Like target practice. I just wish these failures (bring back the pros like eee!) would come up with something fresh.

          Fredblogs was the edgy for awhile, but after the past few weeks, he’s really worn out his welcome. And no one liked OlegR from the start – but then again, maybe his persona was to be the ‘dumb Russian’ stereotype or something? Whatever it is, it’s working. He’s really a method actor or just a natural dummy.

          Phil can we have Witty back please? He puts the -ism, in (no not Zionism).

      • RoHa says:

        “Can you imagine what would have happened if the UN declared Israel as a Nation and then shortly thereafter they were attacked by surrounding Countries in an offensive manoeuvre? ”

        Israel declared itself as a nation in May 1948. UN recognition came in May 1949, after the war was over.

        The Zionists started their offensive manoeuvre to seize more territory in 1947, even before the declaration. The Arab forces moved in defense of the Palestinian Arab population, who were being massacred and driven out of their homes.

        “refugees returning to their homeland”

        Some of the European Jews may have been refugees from their European homelands, but many of the Zionists were just invaders. Only those who had been born in Palestine could claim the area was their homeland.

        “There I go again, confusing historical events with imagination. They are quite distinct aren’t they?”

        They are indeed. I suggest you learn some history instead of relying on your imagination.

      • Daniel Rich says:

        @ Samuel T.,

        Q: the UN declared Israel as a Nation

        R: Who gave the League of Nations the right to declare any piece of a land a country? You set foot onto non-native land, and in layman terms that’s called ‘an invasion’. Historically, every group of people has resisted such ‘act of aggression.’ The natives then had the audacity to shoot arrows or worse, real bullets at the invaders. But we kicked them in the butt and now they’re down and out. We won. Any victory on your peripheral horizon any time soon or do we have to witness this ‘live-pest-control’ for a while longer?

      • American says:

        “Well, instead of imagining, how about thinking back to two atomic bombings against the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in Japan. Fat man and Little boy, August 1945. BOOM!”..Samuel T

        Yep, and you would do well to remember that America is a very violent nation.

      • talknic says:

        Samuel T June 3, 2012 at 9:18 pm

        “Can you imagine what would have happened if the UN declared Israel as a Nation…”

        The UN doesn’t declare nations. It accepts them as members AFTER they have declared themselves, AFTER they have declared themselves and been recognized, AFTER they have declared themselves, been recognized and recommended as a nation state by the UNSC.

        Israel had been declared, recognized and accepted into the UN BEFORE it first claimed territory on 31st Aug 1949. Territory Israel had stated was “outside the State of Israel”

        “..and then shortly thereafter they were attacked by surrounding Countries in an offensive manoeuvre?”

        Nice conspiracy theory. The Israeli Govt says the Arab States attacked “Palestine” Palestine is not Israel. Israel is not Palestine. Israel is an INDEPENDENT Sovereign State. It cannot be in or a part of the non-self-governing territory of Palestine

        “AND then in defence of Israel..”

        Israel was defending military lines “outside of the State of Israel”

        “…and actually defeated the opposing forces..”

        Odd the Arab States prevented Israel from taking all of Gaza and all of Judea and Samaria. The Arab States stopped short of Israel’s recognized borders.

        “… gaining more territory in the process?”

        It is inadmissible to ‘acquire’ territory by war. It is illegal to unilaterally annex territory

        A sovereign can ‘restore’ territory by war, but the territory must have been sovereign to the Israel. No Sovereign Israeli territory has ever been taken by war for it to be ‘restored’.

        “How long would the United States tolerate rockets being fired into Civilian populated areas? “

        Is the US illegally acquiring someone else’s territory? An Occupying Power illegally claiming the territory they occupy? Illegally annexing? Illegally dispossessing? Why is it your analogy has disintegrated?

        “Well, instead of imagining, how about thinking back to two atomic bombings against the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in Japan. Fat man and Little boy, August 1945. BOOM!”

        Er Hawaii was US territory… None of Palestine has ever been Israeli territory.

        “There I go again, confusing historical events with imagination. They are quite distinct aren’t they?”

        LOL. Your bullsh*te is the same delusional twaddle it always is.

      • Woody Tanaka says:

        “refugees returning to their homeland”

        It wasn’t their homeland. It may have been the homeland of some ancester that’s been dead for 20 centuries, but not to them. They were strangers to the land whose only connection was that they happened to like a couple of fantasy stories which were set there. (It’s like a bunch of North Americans named Smith and Jones in the year 4947 taking over Britain from the people who live there because the Smiths and Joneses devoted their lives to the Harry Potter series. [aka "scripture"])

  4. Citizen says:

    Step back, think about it, any Americans here, can you imagine that in this day and age, our forefathers, those who stood under the banner, “Don’t Tread On Me,” would be happily paying for what Israel has wrought?

    • American says:

      Nope Citizen, I never would have imagined it. But two things give me hope…one being, that for all their so far sucessful deceptions and manipulations zionist are not smart, they have no long term vision. What they have the ‘delusion’ that there is no limit to their ability to control or rule over their inferiors, including Americans.
      The second is because of this no limits hubris they will finally over reach and then be destroyed or at least so marginalized they have no power at all.
      For all their hysterics over the fake Protocal of the Elders they are actually carrying out a version of it…….control the world’s super power, the US, and thur it control anything in the world that affects them or would benefit them.
      But it will never last, just a matter of time and events, events they cause and other world events they can’t control coming together.

      • stevieb says:

        It’s not just the U.S – look around at all the G8 nations – all Zionist, all day…they aren’t banking on the U.S forever. After it’s destroyed they’ll move on…and it’s not far off.

  5. GJB says:

    “The Palestinian response to the establishment and expansion of Israel can be summed up in one word, restraint.”

    I recently began using that very word to describe the Palestinians after reading Pam Olsen’s marvelous book, “Fast Times in Palestine”, seeing how these remarkable people manage to keep going under such horrid circumstances, and wondering how many of us – Americans, Jews, or anyone else – could exercise the same restraint.

  6. Taxi says:

    It’s only natural for Palestinians, being the natural natives of the holy lands, to excel at the practice of patience and humble endurance.

    Jerusalem is such a beloved city, by so many people and over so many thousands of years, that to live within it’s radiance in times of peace, is to live in the cradle of god.

    That is why Palestinians are not very good at war.

  7. radii says:

    other single words could apply also:

    grace

    determination

    dignity

    fore-knowledge

    … the last may be the most telling, because it bespeaks of what the Palestinians have known from day one in 1948 – the zionist enterprise is doomed to failure and normal life there (everyone living together) will return eventually

    • Blake says:

      Beautiful words but at what cost to them is my only worry. They have paid a high price for this insane ideology.

  8. Why are the Palestinians so upset? After all, Israel is meant for “white people.”

    link to my.firedoglake.com

    I don’t even know what “white people” means. Does Yishai?

    • Elliot says:

      I’ll answer on behalf of Mr. Yishai. You gotta take all this as situation specific. Then, it’s simple:

      As the Ynet article lays out, Eli Yishai is an Arab Jew. For the purposes of this discourse of contra Black Africans, Arab = White. Yishai got it right. In the construct of colonizer vs. colonized, he is the White man.

      However, when it comes to Israel’s war with the Palestinians, it’s different.
      Jewish = White; Muslim/ (indigenous) Christian = Black.

      • Sort of what I thought he meant.

        I wonder which intrepid MSM reporter is going to first ask a member of the Congressional Black Caucus what Mr. Yishai meant?

  9. Daniel Rich says:

    Q: “If you consider what they have lost and what we would do under similar circumstances, losing our land and homes — you would have to say they have shown great restraint.”

    R: Maybe since we’ve had the opportunity to oppress others [past 60 odd years], but thousands of years of history prove otherwise [we showed restraint and moved on or to other places and didn't put up a fight].

  10. ritzl says:

    Restraint, yes. Waiting on the world to recognize the contrast to the lack of restraint on the other side, and do something about it. Forlorn hope? (sorry Sharpe fan), probably. But maybe some good comes of it, eventually. So the other word that comes to mind is summud.

    But as a person brought up with the notion of unabridged freedom as a lifestyle (and obligation), if one of the sociopaths manning the Gaza wall shot a farmer, I would take every single rocket I had and point them horizontal and right at the watchtower that fired the shot, and let loose. Even the hasbaratchiks here have said that is legit. There might even be some constructive, prophylactic effect in that.

    But then I realize the there is probably some understanding between Hamas and the GoI where if rockets get launched into Israeli fields, both claim benefit (one with “insecurity” and the other with the political whipping boy of “see how they are”, and Israeli incursions are minimized. Whereas if there was a (or multiple) focused attack on a military target with significant damage/effect, an Israeli response would be guaranteed and extensive. Lose-Lose. The ambiguity benefits all the politicians (and that can be taken to include every country with a notional “stake” in this).

    A hundred or more years from now this conflict is going to be a case study in overtly managed political violence (and the PA isn’t blameless in this. God knows that corrupt institution depends on [notional] violence to get it’s money and perks). Hopefully with the effect of recognizing it in it’s early stages, that more powerful players in the calculus don’t offer up “restraint” (i.e. being shot in the head with no recourse) as the only remaining option for a people “yearning to be free.”

    Restraint indeed. The Palestinian people are a model for the world of effective restraint. But also summud.

    PS. One of my hopes is that multiple generations of Occupation don’t mitigate the Palestinian desire to be free, and diminish their desire to do what it takes to be free. The post about Sandra Tamari shows that the Palestinian diaspora will not forget what being free means.

  11. joec says:

    I believe “sumud” would be a more descriptive term, incorporating as it does the virtues of both restraint and resistance.

    link to thisweekinpalestine.com

    • Sumud says:

      I agree :-)

      That’s a great piece joec, a highlight being the closing paragraph:

      Reading Palestinian diaries, you feel that sumud is also a homely concept. What matters is not only continuing to protect the physical well-being of the family but equally the small, grounded things of daily life – the coffee, the welcoming, the mutual relations between neighbours, the caring for a mother-in-law. In fact, in his first diary entitled The Third Way (1982), Shehadeh wrote about his understanding of sumud as a third way between subordination to oppression on the one hand and being imprisoned by the impulse towards violence on the other. At its foundation, sumud is about keeping one’s humanity and soul, and it is therefore an eminently educational concept as well. It is about the core narrative and identity of the Palestinian people – the ability to challenge injustice and oppression, to fight for rights, but also to laugh, to see hope, and even to keep a belief in humanity that still prevails in Palestinian life, despite the impossible circumstances – where nothing less than the existence of a beautiful community is at stake.

      This is one of the reasons I chose ‘sumud’ as a handle – it is noble and dignified. Zionists have put so much effort into demonising Palestinians, and sumud is a counter to that.

      I’d like to see sumud become as widely known in relation to Palestinians as the word apartheid was in relation to black South Africans.

  12. dbroncos says:

    Thanks for calling attention to the dignity and restraint of the Palestinian people. I can only imagine what they suffer. A reminder to us all to challenge Zionism wherever and whenever we can. Inevitably, Zionism will collapse – the sooner the better.

  13. Samuel T says:

    This really bothers me. Max suggested I have O.C.D., which really has very little to do with noticing inconsistencies of details. My observations, agree or disagree, or agree to disagree or decide to Censor it, completely inconsistent with all the passionate comments supporting freedom of speech.

    Photo One. Sad Children. Are they looking at the woman laying down? No. Any sign of empathy towards her? No. They look like they’ve been yelled at, scolded, they are more bewildered, confused, their expressions are very telling. What really irritates me is the use of children as props. You may say these children are not props. Fine argue that point but don’t justify the use of children for advancing a political cause. It’s moronic, insane to do that to children. These children. Look at their faces. Really look at their faces and see if you can discern what emotion is being portrayed. Do these children look like they want to be in this photo? They are looking at someone, not the cameraman and not the Women in the bed. So, who are they looking at? Why are they standing so awkwardly?

    Next. Detail. Bullet from an M-16 “grazes her forehead” call it a “flesh wound.”
    Take your finger and touch your own forehead. Does it feel fleshy to you? No. If somebody struck you in the forehead with their elbow you would bleed profusely and require stitches. Miracle of miracles. This woman was “grazed” by a bullet from an M-16 Rifle. Uhm. Anyone know anything about M-16 Rifles? Nope. I didn’t think so.

    So, I’m supposed to believe that Israeli soldiers are taking shots at Palestinians while they are harvesting their wheat…right? They are taking shots with an M-16 and the harvesters just stay out in the fields harvesting, because that just makes sense, right?
    Some of you hate it when I ask questions. You just consume every little story without much examination, without hesitancy, because it’s all for the bigger picture.

    What happens to an engine that gets hit by a bullet? Anyone? Bueller, Ferris Bueller?
    What happens to an outboard engine on a boat that gets hit by bullets? Fuel, combustion, spark, heat, bullet(s)? K-Boom! That’s my sound effect. Explosion.

    Again, we are asked to believe that Israelis are randomly shooting at people in boats. They wouldn’t approach a boat and say anything, right? They just take shots, M-16, indiscriminately, but hitting an engine because you see, the gentleman in the picture, holding out his hand to show bullets which have a “full metal jacket.” Do you know what that means? They haven’t been fired. Just an annoying detail. Inconsistencies and then strong consistencies. Maybe, just maybe, their are a couple of soldiers who lose it one day and start taking shots at civilians. That happens, usually from a tower somewhere someone is sniping because they lost their mind. However, (we) are supposed to believe that this is a common practice. This is regular stuff. Just shoot at Palestinians. I don’t believe it.

    Why? Soldiers are trained so they don’t have to think too much. They react to various scenarios. Acting outside of those scenarios is largely unheard of unless (someone is genuinely mentally ill, PTSD, on serious drugs, etc) Here in two different locations, the same activity is taking place. Extremely unusual. Incredible, as in I’m questioning the credibility of these two stories.

    Israel is known for dropping letter bombs advising civilians three days in advance that they will be targeting military outposts in a civilian area. They warn people to get out,, get to safety. Yet, I’m supposed to believe that there are a number of Israeli militia who are acting like a bunch of drunken cowboys from the Wild West. It just doesn’t add up. Being in the military is not joining a College frat house. It isn’t like that.

    Oh well, people who throw stones shouldn’t live in glass houses. Actually, even if you don’t throw stones, if you live in a glass house there are fingerprints everywhere…that would be a lot to clean up…

    • I’m supposed to believe …. It just doesn’t add up….It isn’t like that…

      i don’t think anyone around here takes you very seriously anyway sammy. except maybe fred/etc. curious if you’ve seen this:

      IDF confirms: Settlers shot, tied up and beat Palestinian near Nablus
      link to 972mag.com

      i sort of recall your entry onto MW pertained to that event and was another of your multiple paragraph dissection/’bebunking’. guess being wrong is something you excel in.

    • Taxi says:

      Samuel T,
      You have a typical zionical case of denialitus. Well good! Stay in denial mister ethnic cleanser. Cuz when the penny finally drops, you’re need sedation and hospitalization.

      • Mooser says:

        “Cuz when the penny finally drops, you’re need sedation and hospitalization.”

        I wouldn’t worry on his behalf. The end of a Ziocaine jag is usually the typical Ziocaine amnesia. That’s when they forget all the facts presented to them, also forget everything they said, and they come back and say all the same dumb things again.

        Ah, but the emotional kick you get from a Ziocaine jag? Better than any drug, and best when enjoyed in like company.
        Instead of nursing a beer, we sit around nursing a grudge.

    • “So, I’m supposed to believe that Israeli soldiers are taking shots at Palestinians while they are harvesting their wheat…right?”Samuel T.
      Here for you ya kalb!
      Israeli soldiers firing at fishermen’s boat:

      Israeli Navy shoots Gaza Fisherman

      Israeli Navy shoots at Gaza fishermen and international volunteers

      Farming Under Fire

      Israeli Soldiers Shooting at Farmers in Abassan Jedida

      Israeli Military Shoot Gaza Farmer

    • Cliff says:

      Samuel T., have you posted on MW before under another name?

      Really getting sick of you fake-neutral commentators (start out that way) that eventually snow-ball into full Zio-Bots (see: thread about the students who were beaten on camera by Zionist mob at Univ. of New Mexico or something, new Zionist commentator shows up and chastises the protestors instead in a vague tone but after he is pressed on that issue – reveals himself to be a hardcore pro-settler freak).

      Stop the act. Cut the bullshit. We’ve seen it all here at MW. There is nothing else the Israeli Ministry of Fail Hasbara and their minions of keyboard warriors working pro-bono, can do that we haven’t already ‘seen through’.

      Your verbiage is transparent and WEAK.

      • cliff. sammy isn’t even fake-neutral. a visit to his archives confirms that. over and over and over.

        Palestinian and Arab people(s) have been known to indoctrinate their children to Hate the enemy, they have been known to use and leverage their children to promote their cause….”When the [Arabs] love their children more than they hate [Israel] there will be peace in the Middle East.”
        Take away the reference to Arabs and Israelis and the statement is still true.

    • talknic says:

      What really bothers me Samuel T, is that ANYONE would bother with regurgitating the holey Hasbara, when it can be shown to be illogical nonesense at every turn

      “Israel is known for dropping letter bombs advising civilians three days in advance that they will be targeting military outposts in a civilian area. They warn people to get out,, get to safety.”

      Oh? Flee, flee, flee to another part of the war zone! How generous.

      Actually it’s one of the most stupid pieces of propaganda I’ve ever heard. As if Palestinian militants aren’t gonna read the leaflets.

      “Hey Mahmoud you shouldn’t be reading that, it’s only for civilians ………… what does it say BTW?”

      “It says we got three days to get outta here, ’cause the Israelis are coming with one of the best equipped and modern militaries in the world, with tanks, fighter bombers, guided missiles, naval artillery, fletchettes, phosphorus. You name it, they’ve got it … “

      “So we’ve got a couple of days then.”

      “Yeh ….. Pass me another one of them home made rockets.”

      During Cast Lead, Israel had all means of innocent civilians fleeing the violence of the war zone blocked. Including the Egyptian border with Gaza, underthe 2005 agreement and the Peace Treaty with Egypt, thereby preventing civilians from fleeing a war zone.

      Geneva Convention 1V…Section II..Occupied territories..Art49…The Occupying Power shall not detain protected persons in an area particularly exposed to the dangers of war unless the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand.

      Civilians could not even flee into the sea, because Israel controls Palestinian territorial waters.

      BTW The UNSC tells us Geneva Convention IV does apply. See where it says “a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention “. Oddly enough UNSC 476 says almost the same as Iran, of the regime illegally in Jerusalem.

    • stevieb says:

      What a terrible and unbelievably stupid comment….stupid and rotten….

  14. OlegR says:

    /and all leading Jewish organizations will say that this man and the wounded wheat-harvester had it coming/

    If they voted for Hamas in these last elections then they also bear some responsibility
    for this situation.You can’t have it both ways ,either they are a people as they claim
    (and i tend to agree to that) and then they have responsibilities as a people or they are just a group of individuals.

    /”The Palestinian response to the establishment and expansion of Israel can be summed up in one word, restraint.”/
    Bullshit, they fought it as best(or worst depends how you look at it) they could and lost , still losing in fact.

    /But would we do any differently? Yes: we would have done more. We would have guerrillas up in the hills, we would have international resistance support. We would be blowing people up right and left./

    Good you are getting to the point.But since we are on the other side of their struggle
    we also have the right not to get ourselves blown up to bits.Which we do
    with great restraint indeed considering the imbalance of power between us.

    • “If they voted for Hamas in these last elections then they also bear some responsibility for this situation.”

      Israelis voted for the right wing Netanyahu. Every Israeli, then, should be fair game, right?

    • Ellen says:

      Hamas is a creation is Israel. Got their initial fundinrg from the Israeli government. That was when the PLO was evil and “not a negotiating partner.”

      Palistinians were tired of the PLO for the obvious reasons — entrenched power, no success. So then there were real elections and Hamas was voted in. A hope and change vote.

      With the help of the US and Israel, a transfer of power to the democratically elected party was prevented. So there was a forced (armed) assumption of office.

      Same thing would happen in any country if an elected body were prevented from assumption of power.

      So now the guys we do not like were elected.

      And in Oleg’s world that is justification for collective punishment onto a people. They voted for the wrong guys!

      Now Israel cannot help themselves; it iis the Palistinian’s own fault for all Isreal does and will do to them for voting in the “bad” guys.

      Hamas would not even exist if Israel did not set them up as a counterpart to the PLO.

      So it really comes down to this. The Palistinian’s real problem is that they exist, right?

      • Ellen says:

        Hamas is a creation OF Israel. (ipad typos!)

      • OlegR says:

        /And in Oleg’s world that is justification for collective punishment onto a people. They voted for the wrong guys!/

        Yes much the same as the Germans voted for the wrong guys
        a long time ago.
        Or the Americans who voted for the wrong guys time and time again.
        Democracy is a bitch you don’t get to say ,this is not my doing.

        • Talkback says:

          What universal moralist OlegR teaches us today:

          It’s ok to punish all Jews in Israel collectively. Palestinian “terrorism” is a myth. And charging Nazis for the crimes of collective punishment was morally wrong.

      • OlegR says:

        /So there was a forced (armed) assumption of office/
        That’s a nice euphemism for a short and bloody
        revolution.In which people got thrown from roofs of buildings :)

      • OlegR says:

        /So it really comes down to this. The Palistinian’s real problem is that they exist, right?/

        The Palestinian’s real problem is that they haven’t produced leadership
        willing to negotiate and end to the conflict and that they still think
        that they have a chance of someday uprooting us.

        • Sumud says:

          The Palestinian’s real problem is that they haven’t produced leadership willing to negotiate and end to the conflict and that they still think that they have a chance of someday uprooting us.

          Here we go again – the “Israel has no partners for peace” schtick, right?

          Except Netanyhau is on the record gloating that he sabotaged Oslo in his first round as PM, and the Arab Peace Initiative has been on the table for more than 10 years now – tick, tick, tick; still no response from Israel on that.

          Backtracking to the 80s, the 1981 Saudi Fahd Plan and 1982 Arab League Fez Initiative essentially proposed the same thing as the API. After Israel invaded Lebanon and killed about 20,000 Lebanese civilians the Arab League withdrew the Fez Initiative – no partner for peace you see…

        • eljay says:

          >> The Palestinian’s real problem is that they haven’t produced leadership
          willing to negotiate …

          Sure they have. But you and your hateful and immoral co-collectivists aren’t interested in negotiation, you want capitulation.

        • sardelapasti says:

          “think that they have a chance of someday uprooting us.”

          The chance, we’ll see. Some day, certainly. Meanwhile they have fully the right to do so. Especially with regard to illegal Russian immigrants like you.

        • stevieb says:

          It won’t be the Palestinians alone…

    • Cliff says:

      No OlegR, the only reason a crappy ‘start-up’ nation like Israel exists is because of international handouts and weak and divided enemies.

      The ENTIRE history of this conflict has literally been re-written by Zionist liars to portray Israel as SURROUNDED and under constant threat but the real threat was Israel and the Arab world was the real victim as well as the Palestinians.

      If you had tried to steal a country from the Irish, you’d be genuinely thrown into the sea, as it were.

      Be thankful you have such kind people like the Palestinians to pick on. And you’re not even Jewish. You’re a Russian escapee like most of the other frauds who’ve stolen land from the Palestinians.

      • OlegR says:

        /If you had tried to steal a country from the Irish, you’d be genuinely thrown into the sea, as it were./

        It’s a good thing that Israel is our homeland and not Ireland then Cliff.
        The British might find your comment amusing though.

        It’s generally not a good idea to underestimate or hold your enemies
        in contempt and every time we did it we got burned.
        But you feel free to do it in our stead.

        • Shingo says:

          It’s a good thing that Israel is our homeland and not Ireland then Cliff.

          What you mean is, it’s a good thing you got away with stealing it from the Palestinians.

          The British might find your comment amusing though.

          Not really, seeing as youre forefather varried out terror attacks on them, like the Irish.

        • lysias says:

          If you talk with English people nowadays about their treatment of Ireland in the past, they are genuinely ashamed. I don’t know what you mean by saying they would find the comment amusing.

        • OlegR says:

          The wasn’t my point lysias.
          Cliff suggested that the Arabs were wimps (i know that these are not his exact words and btw they are not wimps as well) and that had we encountered a worthier enemy he turned to Irish out of all the peoples in the world.
          I am by no means claim that the Irish are not brave and courageous
          warrior nation (at least in the past they were not sure about now) just that knowing a little bit about the history of Irish attempts to break free of the English domination i found that particular example amusing.

        • lysias says:

          The English/British were able to suppress earlier Irish attempts to break free because of their superior military technology and economic power. But eventually, after Britain had become democratic and its government had to pay some attention to public and world opinion, it was no longer able to be as ruthless as it needed to be to suppress rebellions, and so it had to make a peace that gave the Irish most of what they wanted.

          See any parallels there?

        • Ellen says:

          Lysis, the final agreement is that Northern Ireland can unite with the rest of
          Ireland if they vote to do so.

          Ironically, the British now wish they would.

          @oleg, the Irish do not consider themselves a warrior nation. It has practically no real army and never did. It has never attacked or invaded another country.

        • sardelapasti says:

          “Israel is our homeland”
          Where were you born? Your parents?

    • talknic says:

      OlegR June 4, 2012 at 5:52 am

      “If they voted for Hamas in these last elections then they also bear some responsibility for this situation.”

      And what ‘if’ they didn’t. Collective punishment is illegal because civilians might not have voted for the regime in power. For example, the Palestinians didn’t vote for the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, he was appointed by one Herbert Samuels. Odd isn’t it, that the leader of the Palestinians was chosen by a Jew.

      BTW The UN Charter was adopted in large part because of what happened to Jewish folk under the Nazis. Yet here you are, advocating collective punishment. Hitler would have been so proud of you.

      ///”The Palestinian response to the establishment and expansion of Israel can be summed up in one word, restraint.”///

      “Bullshit, they fought it as best(or worst depends how you look at it) they could and lost , still losing in fact”

      By far the majority of Palestinians today have never taken up arms. Never fought anyone. Never been a suicide bomber. Never been in Hamas. Haven’t dispossessed any Israelis. Didn’t fight or commit any atrocities in 1920, 1947, 1948, 1967 etc etc. Didn’t elect the leaders of the Arab States in 1948. 64 years ago they were babies, who had nothing to do with the person who’s policies you now advocate, Hitler.

      All they have ever asked for is their RIGHTS under the law. No more, no less. They’re the same rights all people have, even Israelis, were they to be invaded and dispossessed. Rights under the Laws and UN Charter Israel obliged itself to uphold. Rights that evolved in large part BECAUSE of what happen to our Jewish fellows under the Nazis.

      “since we are on the other side of their struggle we also have the right not to get ourselves blown up to bits”

      Then get the hell outta Palestine, go live in Israel. Stop illegally acquiring territory, illegal annexation, illegal settlements. Get Israeli citizens back into Israel. The GCs are there to protect Israeli civilians too. Successive Israeli Governments have done Israeli citizens no favours by encouraging them to be illegally in “territories occupied”. Committing war crimes against Israelis is really quite twisted.

  15. eljay says:

    Once again, the hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists gloss over the fact that Jews used terrorism and ethnic cleansing to create an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state, and then engaged in a 60+ years, ON-GOING and OFFENSIVE (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder to maintain and expand this state.

    They also gloss over the fact that Israel has the power to halt its campaign immediately and completely, but it refuses to do so. And that Israel has the power to enter into sincere negotations for a just and mutually beneficial peace, but it refuses to do so.

    Zio-supremacists babble about democracy and justice and general goodness, but they excuse Jewish terrorism, oppression and colonialism, and they unapologetically and unabashedly prefer to see Israel remain an oppressive, colonalist, expansionist and supremacist state.

  16. Les says:

    Just this moment on Democracy Now, Norman Finkelstein said you were with him at the showing of 5 Broken Cameras. We look forward to your review.

  17. Mooser says:

    Once again, I beg you to remember, what the Hasbaratchiks do here has nothing at all to do with facts, nothing at all to do with morals, and is a-historical.
    The intent of the trolls is to present the Zionist Jew as a powerful, macho guy, who is sure of his (or her) own superiority, and in command of his fate.
    They hope this will present an appealing picture.