On Tuesday, President Obama met with a delegation of leaders from the U.S. Orthodox Jewish community and told them he gives Israel more attention than the Palestinians, and that the window on the peace process has probably closed. Give him points for honesty.
From Haaretz:
U.S. President Barack Obama told a delegation of the U.S. Orthodox Jewish community at the White House on Tuesday that his administration is decidedly more attentive to Israel than it is to the Palestinians.
Obama was speaking at a meeting between White House Chief of Staff Jack Lew and leaders of the Orthodox Jewish community, including Dr. Simcha Katz, Rabbi Steven Burg and Nathan Diament of the Orthodox Union.
Meeting participants who wished to remain nameless told Haaretz that the delegation asked Obama what lessons he has learned from events related to the Israel-Palestine peace process, and that the U.S. president said that it is very difficult, and that there are many possibilities for misunderstanding. There is only tension because both sides feel pressured to compromise, he said.
Obama also said that he understands the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wants no restraints, like the leader of any country. He assured his guests that he and Netanyahu get along well on a personal level – but that Netanyahu does not want to appear weak.
In the past, President Obama and other administration officials warned the window of opportunity for making peace might not remain open for long. At Tuesday’s meeting he said that maybe it is already closed, but still expressed hope that progress is still possible, although he admitted that the position of the Palestinians has deteriorated.
“although he admitted that the position of the Palestinians has deteriorated”
sounds like it happened naturally. Rather than that Israel did it
Anyway well done Judaism. You won .
What do you plan to do now with all those stateless and will never have a state Palestinians ?
sounds like it happened naturally. Rather than that Israel did it
I agree. I really hate such blurred wording.
Also, I think this website could use “thumbs up” buttons for all the great comments.
i’ve also thought the thumb up or down would be nice — but, admit it; the posts on this cite are pretty much from one side; no pro-’settler’ types, or even enthusiastic 2 staters, show up here. so all the thumbs would be upward. maybe instead there should be an intensity scale.
Well, yes, at least it’s now official.
The U.S. was never interested in being an ‘honest broker’. That was an illusion from the beginning.
And in fact, even if the U.S. did want to be one, because of the Israel Lobby, it can’t and won’t be for the next decade at least. (If not more).
So Obama admits what we already know. So what does this do? It shows that Obama has no plan to do anything and that voting for him will not make any difference. Not that I think many thought there was huge daylight but a few at least operated under the suspicion that perhaps deep inside of Obama there was a sliver of truth to the attacks the Republicans charge with.
So Obama appears to be perfectly fine with Apartheid. He who was active in the 1980s against South Africa now turns his back. The circle of corruption is complete.
The strongest supporters in America on behalf on Israel are older, white, southern and rural evangelicals. I think it’s a fair bet to make that they won’t dominate the nation in even as soon as 20 years.
Obama has accepted the paradigm of the lobby, after a few years of hapless resitence. But this also means that since he is fine with status quo. He has no plan B. And plan A was and remains Apartheid.
And it’s not high odds to predict that won’t fly in the long run. Dollars may buy you time, but most people cannot be corrupted forever. Those who think old aged senators form a ‘concensus’ will be as shocked as racists were in the early 60s in the US when there was a tremendous groundswelling. It won’t be that dramatic, but it will be a profound structural shift.
It’s already happening at a dizzying pace. And Obama’s final surrender will only speed things up. There is now no great dam left for progressives that holds them back.
Krauss
Obama is useless to Israel. He’s like a doctor prescribing 5 years worth of heroin to a borderline junkie when what the BJ needs is someone to slap him in his smug face, grab him by the collar and say “if you don’t pack this up now and get back on the program you are going to kill yourself”
the settlers are going to do something awful and as a result Israel will lose the goys . Not even the shoah will work as an excuse once that happens.
the settlers are going to do something awful and as a result Israel will lose the goys . Not even the shoah will work as an excuse once that happens.
——–
What if it doesnt matter anymore, Seafoid? What if Israel is beyond sanction? I think that it might be. Not only because of its unique qualities, but because of the current reality in the “goy” countries (which is really just code for europe and the US). There isnt the political will or the resources to do anything about the situation; if Israel via the settlers, or the settlers did do something awful, what state can do anything about it? Kahane was right. The world is going to take it on the chin. War is breaking out all around them, the conditions are becoming ideal for some very dastardly deeds, because as we all know, everything takes a back seat to ‘national security.’ If Israeli National Security becomes dependent on transferring non jews, I suppose they will do it, and I also think the elites around the world will get over it really fast. Bibi and Co. are well aware of this, they know they can get away with it.
“the settlers are going to do something awful and as a result Israel will lose the goys . Not even the shoah will work as an excuse once that happens.”
It will never come to that. Israel will attack Iran. Iran in turn will assume Israel only did it with the complicity of the US. Iran will respond by attacking our troops in the Mideast.
Since no president can fail to respond when US troops are killed Israel has us over a barrel. She can involve us in a war of her choosing anytime she wants to.
Dan
Israel is not Russia. It doesn’t have the world’s largest landmass with corresponding volumes of raw materials that the world needs. Israel is a tiddler in terms of the world economy.
link to gfmag.com
Foreign reserves US$ 76.813 billion
Share of world GDP 0.3%
Exports account for more than 1/3 of GDP.
link to tradingeconomics.com
The Exports of goods and services (% of GDP) in Israel was last reported at 36.96 in 2010, according to a World Bank report released in 2011.
Israel doesn’t have much room for manoevre on debt
Public debt (General government gross debt as a % of GDP 73%
Never underestimate the existential fear that financial markets have in the face of unmanageable political risk . And remember that loyalty means nothing when TSHTF. Goldman would be first out of the blocks shorting Israeli debt if it could turn a profit for its clients. Take away the oil that runs the Israeli economy and what would be left ? When TSHTF who is going to backstop Israel’s banks and the Israeli sovereign ?
I used to think Israel was forever. The financial crisis changed that.
Dan a few comments about all of these apocalyptic scenarios.
/’ If Israeli National Security becomes dependent on transferring non jews, I suppose they will do it, and I also think the elites around the world will get over it really fast/
You are right about the world elites, morality or human life are just words
to them it’s real politic that matters as it’s always been.
In theory i suppose it might happen if we are pressed really hard militarily by a number of rival regional powers like in 1948, us or them situation and even then it would not be a part of any coherent strategy but mostly a side effect of the hostilities like it was not during the Independence War.
(Read Benny Morris “1948″)
In reality the balance of military power is so much on our side that
the Palestinians (or the neighboring countries ) can’t present us with such a dilemma and without it the army just won’t do it pure and simple it’s inconceivable and the settlers that are nuts enough to contemplate
such a thing are a tiny minority among the settler population even they would not be able to do anything besides making a lot of useless noise.
I hear ya Seafoid – and I would like to fully agree, but I think the fact that the economies of the region are rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things – including israel- makes it more likely that nothing will get done. And Israel might start looking like a good bet for Russia and other large economies, as the other states in the region begin to come apart. Whatever else is true about Israel – its politically stable, has nukes and a top 5 military (by size and scope). The Zionists chose really well, they picked the perfect neighborhood to bully.
The other thing Dan is that Israel is a Western outpost on the wrong side of the Med. At the beginning of spring I was up in the mountains observing the snow . There was a patch in the middle of one pathway away from the rest which was all packed at the edge of the path . 2 days later it was gone. The stuff that was all packed together lasted much longer.
Oil is probably going to run out within 40 years . Israel would have been impossible without oil.
I also think the fact that American Jews have given up on aliyah says something important. I don’t believe the people running Israel are as smart as they think they are.
It is going to be interesting.
Dan- another thing I was thinking. If you drew a plot of population size versus military strength Israel would be off the chart. It’s only possible because the US underwrites it.
Israel should have weaned itself off this years ago but the occupation was just too sexy. So far the costs of militarism (around $13.5bn per annum of spending and investment displaced ) haven’t shown up in stats about Israeli society but they will.
So much about Israel is artificial. They couldn’t create a normal country if they tried.
“So Obama appears to be perfectly fine with Apartheid. He who was active in the 1980s against South Africa now turns his back. The circle of corruption is complete.”
Yes, our first black President, the Peace Prize winner, is ok with Apartheid. Very disappointing, Krauss. He’s ok with Apartheid because he needs AIPAC money to finance his career. I guess he’s not concerned with his legacy or with how his name will read the the history books. A thorough mediocrity.
This is an incredibly irresponsible comment from Obama. The Palestinians have taken a platform of non violent resistance, only to be told that their window of opportunity is increasingly diminishing or even non existent? It’s like their situation isn’t important now they’re not running around with semtex vests on.
So what now? The Palestinians say ‘fu*k it, we’ve got nothing to lose’?
It almost seems like a fait accompli. Perhaps this is why Finkelstein has recently appeared agitated to find a resolution soon within the confines of law. Jeff Halper recently said it’s all over for Palestinians in East Jerusalem.
Wholly depressing…….
This isn’t going to go down well in Europe, the source of all the money that is used to mop up Israel’s mess.
The Jewish lobby has bought the US and Europeans are going to figure it out. All the BS about peace can be ignored.
It’s apartheid . And Judaism is at the rotten heart of it.
Meanwhile Jews in Israel are firebombing refugees.
Things are only going to get worse in Israel and for Israel.
seafoid, I find your comment “Judaism is at the rotten heart of it” offensive. Zionism is at the rotten heart of it and there are quite a few anti-Zionist Jews.
Binyamin
There are quite a few non Zionist Jews but none of them are anywhere near the centres of Jewish power. Israel is a Jewish tragedy. Nobody ever stopped the Zionists and it is only going to get worse as Israel isolates itself.
I am sick of reading letters to the papers from Jews who say any criticism of Israel is antisemitic.
Too many sociopaths wear the kippa. The Star of David is used as a sign of oppression on the West Bank.
Judaism will survive Zionism but not before the Jewish conversation happens.
Binyamin-one other thing. It is very hard for decent people to make headway in gaining power in the community when the opposition is organised, funded, experienced and ruthless . Zionism is not unique.
link to nybooks.com
“The participants range from Attajdid (Innovation), a coalition of ten leftist parties and political associations, some of whose members were harassed and jailed by Ben Ali, with some of their leaders in exile, to eight bloggers who rose to prominence during the uprising and who are running as independents. None of the parties, however, can match the organization or the financial strength of Ennahda. Although the party was largely unknown among the younger generation when it was legalized in March, the religious leaders quickly formed cells made up of former political prisoners, returning exiles, and the devout in hundreds of communities, and mobilized new members through a network of mosques. “They are by far the best-organized political party,” Ghabi told me. The sophistication of the Islamists and the respect for the imams in the mosques, combined with the lack of experience and funding of the secular parties, could bring Ennahda a big victory, Gharbi and other observers say”
If the Zionists pretend to represent Jews, they shouls shut up when their unspeakable crimes are attributed to Jews. If you don’t like it, destroy Zionism. If you like it, as obvious from the fact that this has been done intentionally from day 1, as expressed by all Zionist leaders, shut up and take it.
Should this be counted as antisemitism or
is it just a legitimate rhetorical question?
OlegR says:
June 6, 2012 at 6:42 pm
Should this be counted as antisemitism or
is it just a legitimate rhetorical question?
Should you be counted as a White Russian, a Racist Russian or ZioCurrency?
Binyamin in Orangeburg says:
June 6, 2012 at 10:52 am
seafoid, I find your comment “Judaism is at the rotten heart of it” offensive. Zionism is at the rotten heart of it and there are quite a few anti-Zionist Jews.
Do you honestly think it’s reasonable to believe that people should be able to easily separate Zionism from Jews and/or Judaism, when Israel has co-opted Judaism by design, and commits all its crimes against humanity in the name of Jews and Judaism, all while adorning its instruments of oppression with all the Jew symbols (I’m sorry, but I refuse nowadays to use the word Jewish as I find the entire Zionist notion of a “Jewish” nation to be beyond abhorrent) it can get its murdering hands on, only to then seek further sanctions should anyone dare to even hint that it was Jews and/or Judaism that were to blame?
Since its inception Zionism has screwed ordinary Jews more than any other group, truly it has, and in some ways even more so than it has the Palestinians.
Obama is showing his true face now because he has to beat the Repugnants in November and he can’t do that by going soft on those who are not Judeo christian. So he tells the people of the US that he ordered Stuxnet to fight Iran and now he tells the Orthodox Jews he has sewn up YESHA for them .
“The position of the Palestinians has deteriorated?” That’s putting it mildly. We will never see a free Palestine.
I hope not.
i think what’s over is any pretense the US can be anything but israel’s broker in dealing with the conflict.
Translation : Elections are coming, and i need AIPAC votes & funding too. Anyway, story which we know already. Race for AIPAC support is on.
Of course, because its you who is on the leash. Your clever enough to admit that it ain’t nice place to be.
Except when someone leaves mic open, you tell something else. Bummer.
Obama said maybe the window of opportunity has already closed, and whose fault is that number 1, US aid in the billions, with no strings, political help by vetoing resolutions at the UNSC on for instance settlement building, making Israel virtually the sixth permanent member, enabling, no encouraging Israel to continue committing war crimes. 2, The European Union encouraging Israel with sweetheart trade deals, with no strings, with the message carry on with the ethnic cleansing and war crimes, sorry, they do occasionally say these crimes are unhelpful, subsidised nuclear capable submarines from Germany, in breach of non proliforation treaties, tolerating Israels destruction of EU sponsered aid projects, with out so much as a peep, the Israelis would be fools to obey International Law when they can act with such impunity. Then we have the PA, no don’t laugh, who for nearly 20 years watched while hundreds of thousands of settlers flooded into the West Bank while ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, and who even now refuse to take the neccessary steps to bring the perpetrators of these crimes to book at the ICC.
subsidised nuclear capable submarines from Germany, in breach of non proliforation treaties
Harry, I have no intention to justify this submarine deal. However, I don’t see how this deal breaches the NPT. I mean, Germany didn’t deliver any nuclear weapons. And Israel has nuclear weapons anyway, whether Germany delivers the subs or not.
@German Lefty
Veterans Today had an article stating that Germany did exactly that – armed the submarines with nuclear tipped missiles.
link to veteranstoday.com
I don’t think Germany armed the subs….I remember reading at the time in JP about ‘modifications’ Israel was going to make to the Dolphin to enable it to carry nuke missiles.
@ CloakAndDagger
Veterans Today had an article stating that Germany did exactly that – armed the submarines with nuclear tipped missiles.
If this is true, then that’s really scandalous. I can’t find anything about this in the German press. How credible is Veterans Today? Der Spiegel wrote, “Government spokesman Steffen Seibert said that the government did not get involved ‘in speculation about a possible later armament’ of the submarines, adding that the vessels were delivered ‘without weapons.’” I just sent a tweet to Der Spiegel as well as to a Green Party MP and linked to the Veterans Today article.
GL: “How credible is Veterans Today?”
German Lefty, the article makes some truly wild and unsubstantiated claims. But this paragraph struck me as completely bizarre:
On June 1, 2009, it was a submarine like this one, armed with American Patriot missiles, that is said to have shot down Air France flight 447, an Airbus 330 bound for Brazil, while it was over the South Atlantic. France was said to have failed to live up to an agreement and that this “tax” was considered punishment and incentive. The source is both official and anonymous.
The author of this, whilst displaying a vivid imagination for conspiracy theories, knows nothing about either the AF447 crash or the Patriot missile. The idea of launching a Patriot missile from a submarine is laughable.
On the basis of this article, I would say Veterans Today has no credibility.
VeteransToday? Ha Ha HA HA. They print anything. Holocaust denial, KKK rants, you name it.
Germany has no nuclear weapons. Do you mean to say Israel gave Germany nuclear weapons to attach to the subs? That doesn’t seem likely. I find it hard to believe that any Israeli nucs ever left Israel (except perhaps for a test off South Africa).
Yeah, giving them the guns but not the bullets, so to say, German Lefty. Interesting form of reparations by the new Germany populated and run by PostWW2-born folks.
Don’t despair – Israel and everyone else constantly underestimates the will and endurance of the Palestinian people.
Israel is already a dirty word in large parts of Europe, and (worryingly for Israel) especially so amongst educated affluent younger people – the leaders of tomorrow.
The BDS movement is growing, slowly but surely, and US support tends to be coerced by AIPAC rather than given from genuine warmth and affection.
Netanyahu is rude and abrasive even by Israeli standards, and a second term Obama will have little to lose from slapping him about a bit.
To repeat – don’t despair; we must continue to fight for the Palestinian cause.
“Israel and everyone else constantly underestimates the will and endurance of the Palestinian people”
And never underestimate the capacity of Zionism to shoot itself in the foot. They aren’t just attempting to break the Palestinians. They are destroying their own society in the process.
“The position of the Palestinians has deteriorated?” Unfortunately, I think from the context that this is meant to mean that the Palestinians are being less supportive of peace. It isn’t meant in any way to reflect any sympathy for the ongoing Israeli reign of terror, quite the reverse,,
Sorry, guys I really did think that Mr Obama would be a change, even just in being a president with some genuine human values behind the inevitable needs of politics. When did that guy get replaced by Mr Bush?
Obama’s notion of leadership is to serve the status quo with a laxative to help the little people digest more comfortably the idea that they don’t matter.
Obama’s notion of leadership is to serve the status quo with a laxative so that the little people can digest more comfortably the idea that they don’t matter. The Peace Prize winner’s Cairo speech was a laxative for Arabs, especially Palestinians.
I just clicked on the link. You have to subscribe to Haaretz now to read their articles? That sucks. They weren’t always the most honest of papers (Diane Mason and I think Richard Silverstein have written about that), but they were a lot better than the NYT on I/P issues.
Anyway, here’s a link to a different article (which I found on an article by Phil that was up a few minutes ago and then vanished for some reason)–
link
Read the whole thing as they say, but here’s an interesting chunk–
————————————-
“He said peace was critical as the Arab democracy movement swept the region, but worried that the Palestinian leadership was no longer as interested in advancing toward peace.
Anyone expecting a less convivial meeting than the president’s discussions with Conservative rabbis and leaders last week would have been disappointed. According to Orthodox Union (OU) Public Policy Director Nathan Diament – who was a driving force in making the meeting happen – the conversation was “serious, straightforward, and civil, punctuated by a few lighthearted, warm moments.”
———————————-
On that first part (the Palestinian leadership no longer as interested in advancing towards peace), what a jerk Obama is. You can see why the conversation was serious, straightforward, warm, and lighthearted–he didn’t say anything that might conceivably upset his audience.
Thanks for the link, Donald.
Another excerpt:
“One source reported that Obama said his calls to freeze settlement expansion reflected the same positions of his four predecessors, and blamed differences with Israel in part on the quirk of history of a centrist US government and a right-wing Israeli government coexisting.”
Amazing that POTUS has to justify his view of expanding settlements, by pointing to a formerly established official US POV against them. Seems this alone may convince the communities those present represented that they should vote for Mitt who will be a certain easy push-over, rather than a probable one, given a second term.
Also, under one of the pics in the article it says Obama recently stated for the record that he knows more about Judaism than any US president.
I bet that’s true, except for Jimmy Carter. Or was he thinking of 20 years of fiery black sermons by his old favorite preacher?
“Also, under one of the pics in the article it says Obama recently stated for the record that he knows more about Judaism than any US president.
I bet that’s true, except for Jimmy Carter. Or was he thinking of 20 years of fiery black sermons by his old favorite preacher?”
Carter would know the Bible well, but like most Christians I suspect he doesn’t know much about Judaism past the 1st century BCE (and that from the New Testament perspective). I bet Clinton knows a lot, mainly because I gather Clinton, whatever else you could say about him, is a voracious reader. Obama probably isn’t too far from the truth in his brag.
As for Rev. Wright, he was a critic of US imperialism and apparently Israel as well. When Obama distanced himself from him in his first Wright speech, he actually made a point to defend Israel in it, when the controversy was all about what Wright had said about the US.
link
Here’s the relevant quote –
“But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren’t simply controversial. They weren’t simply a religious leader’s effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country – a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.”
People were always too optimistic about Obama’s likely behavior in the Middle East.
I thought I sent in a comment, but it seems to have vanished. Anyway, with regards to Obama and his former pastor, Rev Wright apparently said some harsh things about Israel, because Obama felt the need to denounce them in his first damage control speech during the 2008 primaries. Here is the relevant quote, taken from the text at this link
“But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren’t simply controversial. They weren’t simply a religious leader’s effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country – a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.”
That’s a politician in full pander mode.
Donald, you can register for free at Haaretz to get access. Its a minor hassle, yes, but you don’t have to pay to read. At least not yet.
Thanks tree.
At least he admitted the US isn’t a honest broker.
But no news there is there?
I just noticed today that Elizabeth Warren who I made a donation to thinking she would be a incorruptible senator for regulatory agencies has also signed onto the AIPAC program for bombing Iran.
Why anyone thinks anything is going to get reformed or anything domestic is going to improve as long the US is nothing but a bigger Israel is beyond me.
Elizabeth Warren has also signed onto the AIPAC program for bombing Iran.
Really? Wow, that’s a disappointment. I liked her, too.
When I heard her talk about Iran…terribly worrisome
“I just noticed today that Elizabeth Warren who I made a donation to thinking she would be a incorruptible senator for regulatory agencies has also signed onto the AIPAC program for bombing Iran.”
Of course she did. One does not become a successful politician in Idiot America without selling one’s soul to this devil. Satan lives at AIPAC.
Here is Warren’s webpage stating her position on Israel: link to elizabethwarren.com
It was written by some AIPAC hack. Sample:
“Unilateral actions, such as the Palestinians’ membership efforts before the United Nations, are unhelpful, and I would support vetoing a membership application.”
One would think that someone palming themselves off as an American Indian would have at least an iota of empathy for a people being dispossessed of its land and its future by a military power. Not so with this Chas Schumer wanna’ be.
Elizabeth Warren, the darling of the Left, is just another lying politician sucking up to the deep pockets. At least Schumer’s Israel-firster roots are genetic.
Yeah, I sent her campaign a letter saying that she is very much needed on the domestic stuff, but I couldn’t vote for or waste money on someone who supports a policy (Iran) that if implemented would completely wipe out any benefit her other policies might achieve. That her positions represent a negative net benefit vision for the US.
She could have been so constructive. Oh well..
AMERICAN- Anyone who votes Republican is an enemy. Anyone who votes Democratic is an idiot. Anyone who doesn’t vote is a moron. Take it from there.
About USA’s honest brokering, and related generous offer, a read of Enderlin (“Shattered Dreams”), was sufficient. Maybe at least it’s time for the EU to look at the facts that Obama has finally subscribed. Or isn’t that enough?
Sure, in the meantime, Palestinians are fed up with peace processes that quite obviously don’t lead them anywhere. But if Madrid, Oslo, Camp David, Taba, Annapolis, were dead, now they have been buried.
Obama admits the US is ‘more attentive’ to Jewish money than Palestinian dignity
It is not the US, per se, that is “more attentive to “Jewish money”, but rather US polticians who are compelled to fellate moneyed Zionist Jews to finance their political campaigns and to protect their asses from the negative media onslaught if they failed to do so – if “the US”, that is, the entirety of the American public, was permitted by the hamstrung media to gain full knowledge of the full extent of the control of its politicians, I suspect things would change very quickly.
“if “the US”, that is, the entirety of the American public, was permitted by the hamstrung media to gain full knowledge of the full extent of the control of its politicians, I suspect things would change very quickly”
Bukra fi mishmish
“Bukra fi mishmish”
???
Yeah, “If” is a tiny word with a big meaning. The US foreign policy has been hijacked by Zionists since JFK was killed. No strong sign of change.
Jam tomorrow.
(Apricots in the original.)
“It’s very good jam,” said the Queen.
“Well, I don’t want any to-day, at any rate.”
“You couldn’t have it if you did want it,” the Queen said. “The rule is jam tomorrow and jam yesterday but never jam to-day.”
Through the Looking Glass.
An Arabic expression equivalent to ‘ain’t gonna happen’ or ‘when pigs fly’.
Though now I think further, perhaps not.
“Jam tomorrow” is a sarcastic response (much used by trade unions) to promises that sacrifice today will result in benefit tomorrow.
Maybe “if pigs had wings, they’d fly” would be better. That indicates that the envisaged situation is unrealistic fantasy.
Could someone with much better Arabic than mine help?
“told them he gives Israel more attention than the Palestinians, and that the window on the peace process has probably closed.” And the Orthodox Jewish community, many Zionist respond “Yes”
I’m reminded of Finkelstein’s comment the other day that Obama doesn’t believe a word he says.
It’s said that Obama is the one who replied to Sarkozy, about Netanyahu: “you’re fed up, but I have to deal with him every day.”
Reading between the lines, maybe he’d better work a little on his memory, even under elections.
The Palestinian “final solution” is as plain as day. Israel will continue to squeeze the Palestinians into smaller and smaller bits of land until they can suddenly, overnight, brutally push all Palestians into Lebanon and/or Jordan and/or the Siani.
They will do this so quickly the UN won’t have time to call a meeting.
Israel will then announce facts on the ground mean there can be no return of any kind of Palestinian to Palestine.
Congress will quickly pass a bill backing Israel…the President will “regretfully” sign it…. Israel will be a pariah state but couldn’t care less.
It’s a neat “final solution”. Look for it.
There is no doubt that this is the Israeli fantasy and unspoken solution and there is also no doubt that Congress will be fully supportive of Israel’s “final solution to the Palestinian problem”, regardless of what it is. But it could be achieved only under the fog of war, like they have done in the past, nor can it be achieved overnight or without massive bloodshed. Israel will have to foment a war with Jordan in order to perpetrate the Final Solution. Jordan is well aware of that although I don’t think King Abdullah can do much about it except for developing nuclear weapons to thwart such an attack.
In the meantime the strangulation of Palestinian life continues….
been looking for someone to state to obvious; Oklahoma farmer is right that it is, and has long been, a matter of a final solution for the Palestinians.
it is actually rather promising that Obama would blurt out that not only has the US not been an honest broker (well, duh); but, much more importantly I believe, it is quite important that Obama is saying that the so-called ‘peace process’ is dead. It is of course the fools errand to try and claim there could be any kind of 2ss.
what is important is that now all concentration must be given to trying to direct how the final solution will actually emerge — will it be as Oklahoma farmer says, a purging of the Palestinian people; or likewise a Gaza solution, where there is reservation allowed for the ‘good’ Palestinians; or might there be some way to maneuver towards a bi-national, true democracy.
the bogosity about working for a peace process with a 2ss goal is just a game for Israel to continue towards the 1ss Jewish state, ultimately purging the Palestinians. what Obama admitted, that the 2ss is dead, should be a wake-up call to look towards how to truly try and shape a true democracy for the 1ss — if possible.
Oklahoma farmer….
It’s been in the works for a long time. Amazingly similar to the Nazis first plan to get rid of the Jews by emigrating them out or transfering them to some commune or other countries. Everyone needs to read this Orwellian, black is white presentation of a ‘humanitarain solution ” to understand how truely sick and pathological these people are…so sick they can’t even see how normal people view what they’ve suggested in this..
link to jerusalemsummit.org
Humanitarian Regional Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: A Synopsis
Прочитайте по-русски
A. Assessment
1. The conventional-wisdom paradigm for the resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has failed woefully, bringing nothing but misery and despair to both sides – but particularly to the Palestinians as individual human beings.
2. This conventional paradigm has attempted to solve the conflict by means of a Political Solution involving the establishment of a self-governing Palestinian entity on territories in Judea Samaria and Gaza which have been under Israeli control since 1967 i.e. on the basis of a “Land for Peace” approach.
3. Dispassionate assessment of the history of the conflict and its current development will strongly suggest that persisting with attempts to attain a political solution on the basis the conventional paradigm is at best futile – and at worse harmful. Accordingly, alternative modes of resolution must be pursued.
B. Analysis
1. Analysis of their deeds and declarations over the years make it difficult to avoid the conclusion that the Palestinians are in effect both unwilling and incapable of achieving and maintaining statehood.
(a) Palestinian Unwillingness: This is reflected in the fact that the Palestinians have rejected every single viable proposal which would have afforded them a state – from the 1947 partition plan to the 2000 Barak proposals.
(b) Palestinian Incapability: The Palestinian national movement has enjoyed conditions far more favorable than almost any other national independence movement since WW-II – widespread international endorsement of their cause, unmitigated support of a superpower in the decades of the Cold War, highly sympathetic coverage by the major media organizations, and over a decade of Israeli administrations who have acknowledged (and at times even identified with) the Palestinians declared national aspirations. In spite of this, the achievements of Palestinian national movement have been more miserable than almost any other national independence movement – bringing nothing but privation and penury to its people.
2. It is thus far easier to understand Palestinian conduct if one assumes that it is driven less by lack of Palestinian self-determination and more by the very existence of Jewish self-determination; less by the aspiration to establish a Palestinian state and more by the aspiration to dismantle a Jewish state.
3. The latter, and seemingly more plausible, explanation of Palestinian behavior – i.e. rejection of Jewish self determination and the dismantling of the Jewish nation state – reflects an agenda totally unacceptable by any international standards and thus must be branded as devoid of any legitimacy.
4. Accordingly if the accepted version of the Palestinian narrative – i.e. a desire for Palestinian self determination and the aspiration for Palestinian statehood – cannot be reconciled with the history of Palestinian behavior, this narrative also must be branded as devoid of any legitimacy.
5. This issue of legitimacy of narrative is crucial. Indeed the very fuel of the Political Paradigm, involving the establishment of a Palestinian state, is the perception – or rather the misperception – of the presently prevailing Palestinian narrative as legitimate.
C. Conclusion
1. The establishment of a Palestinian State must removed from the international agenda.
2. However, removing the issue of a Palestinian state from the international agenda will not eliminate the humanitarian predicament of Palestinians residing in Israeli-administered areas.
3. This is clearly an issue that must be addressed and resolved. But it must be addressed not in political terms but in humanitarian ones.
4. Thus, to successfully resolve the Palestinian problem, the Political Paradigm must be replaced by a Humanitarian Paradigm. This, however can only be done if the current Palestinian narrative, which fuels the Political Paradigm, is de-legitimized.
5. Thus, the de-legitimization of the Palestinian narrative becomes a vital prerequisite to any comprehensive resolution of the Palestinian issue.
D. Proposal
1. A comprehensive Humanitarian Solution to the Palestinian issue would entail three major elements:
(a) The dissolution of UNRWA – which will end the discriminatory treatment towards the Palestinians with regard to their status as refugees;
(b) The termination of ethnic discrimination against Palestinians living in the Arab world – which will end the discriminatory treatment towards the Palestinians with regard to their status as residents;
(c) Generous relocation grants to Palestinians living in Israeli administered territories on an individual basis and not via any official Palestinian organization.
2. UNRWA is an organization that perpetuates the Palestinian refugee problem. It is an anomalous organization which exists solely to deal with Palestinian refugees, while all the other refugees on the face of the globe are dealt with by the UN High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR).
3. The organizations not only deal differently with the refugees under their auspices, they each have different definitions for classifying an individual as a “refugee”.
4. This difference in definition has far-ranging consequences. For in contrast to the UNHCR definition, which results in a decline in the number of refugees over time, the UNRWA definition leads to an inflation of the number.
5. In fact, if the UNHCR’s otherwise universal definition were applied to the Palestinian case, the number of refugees would decline from 4-5 million to 200-300,000 i.e. by over 90%!!
6. It thus appears that UNWRA is perpetuating the very problem it was designed to eliminate.
7. Accordingly, the dissolution of UNRWA is an essential prerequisite for any comprehensive, durable solution of the Palestinian issue.
8. With the dissolution of UNWRA, the remaining – and drastically reduced – number of Palestinian refugees, should be placed under the auspices of UNHCR – in accordance with the accepted practice for all other refugee groups on the face of the globe.
9. Those Palestinians no longer classed as refugees under the new arrangements, must be offered all the privileges afforded all other peoples resident in their current countries of domicile in the Arab world — including the right to acquire citizenship.
10. In order to do this, a vigorous diplomatic and media campaign must be mounted to induce Arab governments to end their harsh discriminatory behavior towards the millions of Palestinians domiciled in their countries and absorb them into their societies as fully fledged citizens. After all, even the Palestinians assert (in the opening paragraph of their National Covenant) that they are “part of the Arab Nation”.
11. As for the Palestinians resident in Israeli administered territory, there is only one reasonable and feasible alternative that will:
(a) extricate them from their dire humanitarian plight;
(b) free them from the yoke of generations of misrule by their leadership;
(c) ensure the survival of Israel as the nation-state of the Jews.
12. This is a generous relocation and resettlement package to allow them to build a new life for themselves and their families in countries preferably, but not necessarily exclusively, with similar religious and socio-cultural conditions.
13. In order to minimize the ability of organized Palestinian interest groups to impede the success of such an effort, the offer of financial inducement to emigrate must be “atomized” – i.e. made to individual Palestinian breadwinners on a one-to one personal level and not on a communal level via some formal Palestinian entity.
14. A survey conducted among the Palestinians in Nov. 2004 indicates that only about 15% of the Palestinian population resident in Israeli administered areas would reject such an offer outright. By contrast, over 70% would accept some form of material compensation as an inducement to emigrate permanently from the areas currently under Israeli administration (see link to jerusalemsummit.org)
15. The economic cost of such a policy of generously financed humanitarian relocation and resettlement would be eminently affordable and would compare favorably with almost all other settlement proposals on the table today. Indeed, its total cost would be around 50% of the present total US outlay on the War in Iraq!!
16. Indeed, given Israel’s present level of GDP, it is an initiative that it could well undertake on its own over the next decade to a decade and a half. It should be realized that this is the period that has elapsed since the initiation of the Oslo process – which has brought nothing but failure and tragedy at the cost of billions of dollars and thousands of lives.
17. Of course, if the US, the EU and other developed nations were to contribute to this effort, it could be implemented in a far shorter space of time and with almost no burden on the world economy.
18. Quite the opposite, the Palestinians arriving in their new countries of domicile will not be impoverished refugees but reasonably affluent émigrés. The funds that they would be bringing with them would provide a considerable boost for the economies of these nations – most of which would be developing countries with a pressing need for such a substantial influx of funds.
E. Summary
The proposed initiative constitutes a “win-win” proposal which will:
Alleviate, and even eliminate, the humanitarian plight of individual Palestinians
Ensure the continued security and survival of Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish people
Provide a significant boost to the economies of the developing world
Transform poverty stricken refugees into affluent émigrés
These freaks have the ability to rationalize their behavior in ways that only psychopaths can.
American, have you read the should be hilarious comments for that piece?:
“No.47: Cool – who are you anyway? You present so logically and non-hysterically what some right-wingers have been saying for years – only you come off as liberal and humanitarian!
[Need more] mention of the total corruption of the leadership and how the Palestinians already could have been freed of so many problems if the int’l money had gone to their plight instead of to the shopping sprees of the leaders and their wives.
Naomi A.”
I hate to ask, but who are these fascists? How close are they to the Theocratic government of Israel?
Southernobserver.
Click on the link and look at the section for members. US Senator Brownback, almost every well known US Jewish Zios and Gentile evangelical Israel firsters, lots of journalist that we see writing about Israel, besides the Israelis who are members…it’s a big network.
I think since Brownback sees ethnic cleansing as such a good idea, why not just appropriate half of Kansas and ship all the Zionists there and let them make their “Jewish homeland” in Brownback’s back yard.
And Israeli’s will have created their own prison.
German Lefty you are correct about the NPT, but you must agree the German Government are being totally irresponsible in the sale/gift of these nuclear weapons delivery systems here is what the left leaning Die Tagezeitung said on the matter “Germany is a strange country. When SPD leader Sigmar Gabriel recently traveled to Hebron and said that the disenfranchisement of the Palestinians reminded him of apartheid in South Africa, a storm of outrage broke out. But the fact that Israel’s government is pushing ahead with settlements, thereby destroying the basis for a two-state solution, is accepted by most German politicians and journalists with a shrug of the shoulders.”
“Similarly, the (news) that Germany is supplying Israel with submarines which can be equipped with nuclear weapons has prompted little indignation. But when a writer such as Günter Grass, in an unfortunately worded poem, gives expression to his concern that this could lead to an escalation in the conflict with Iran, half of Germany takes offense. It is to SPIEGEL’s credit that it has tried to steer the debate back along rational lines.”
“It’s a serious matter when Germany, as the world’s third-largest arms exporter, apparently pays little consideration to the consequences of its policy (of exporting submarines to Israel). After all, military equipment is not supposed to be exported to crisis regions (under German government guidelines). This applies to the export of German tanks to Saudi Arabia as well as to the supply of nuclear-capable submarines to Israel, whose government is currently openly threatening to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities. When he criticized that fact, Grass had a point.” Link to Spiegel online [ Helping Israel defend itself is Germany's duty 06-05-2012]
How was Grass’s poem “unfortunately worded”? I didn’t see much poetic merit in it, but the ideas he presented struck me as correct, and much needed.
@ HarryLaw
you must agree the German Government are being totally irresponsible in the sale/gift of these nuclear weapons delivery systems
Undoubtedly, that’s irresponsible. I’ve never claimed otherwise.
“But the fact that Israel’s government is pushing ahead with settlements, thereby destroying the basis for a two-state solution, is accepted by most German politicians and journalists with a shrug of the shoulders.”
In Germany, there’s a disconnect between the people on the one hand and the politicians and journalists on the other hand. The latter are right-leaning in terms of Israel.
What I just wrote to Elizabeth Warren:
Ms. Warren, you’re one more shill for AIPAC and their minions. You simply refuse to see Palestinian suffering. How can you deny Palestinians their right to appeal at the UN and at the same time encourage Palestinian land theft, Palestinian olive trees destroyed, Apartheid wall, etc? I was initially going to vote for you. Not anymore. You also think that bombing Iran to protect Israel is a good idea? Protect Israel from what exactly? Israel has a nuclear arsenal, paid for with our tax dollars, that would certainly wipe Iran off the map, not to mention the rest of the Middle-East. Go take money from AIPAC, lean at the altar of greed and ignorance, but don’t count on my vote.
Another blank ballot……
link to haaretz.com
Israel’s ‘legalizing theft’ law
Under Mafia rules, the bill that would legalize the theft of Palestinian land is fair, although its wording clearly indicates that the state is admitting to stealing land from its Palestinian owners.
By Zvi Bar’el | Jun.06, 2012 | 3:57 AM
The bill that would legalize the theft of Palestinian land has been given a name as pure as the driven snow – the “arrangement” or “resolution” law.
It’s as if we’re talking about an arbitration procedure that the party of the first part (hereafter, “the Thieves” ), can impose on the party of the second part, (hereafter, “the Victims” ), to enable the former to steal the land of the latter, provided that the Victims haven’t made a claim on their property for four years, and provided that a neighborhood has already been built on the land in which at least 20 Thief families live.
Under this “arrangement,” the Victims will have to agree to accept financial compensation, to be determined by the Thieves, or accept alternative land, which will be assessed as being of equal value by an assessor appointed by the “godfather.”
Under Mafia rules, this is a fair bill, although its wording clearly indicates that the state is admitting to stealing land from its Palestinian owners. At best, it transferred stolen property to a group of settlers who are living on the land without having reported the theft to them, while at worst, the settlers knew that the land was stolen.
Either way, nothing was done in secret. Everything was brought out in the open during hearings before the High Court of Justice, which not only ruled that the land does not belong either to the settlers or the state, but ordered the Thieves to return the property to its rightful owners.
One must admit, though, that a less thoughtful Mafia probably wouldn’t have bothered offering the Victims any compensation. It would have made sure the claimants never made it to court in the first place. But something went wrong, and now it must be “resolved.”
To cover the cost of the arrangement, whether it means paying the Palestinians or building new homes for the settlers, the government will extract from some hidden corner of its budget tens of millions of shekels that could have been used for more productive purposes. But that’s not the point, really. Fifty or 60 million shekels is neither here nor there compared to the billions of shekels that have already been invested in the Jewish diaspora in the territories.
The appearance of respect for the law and the veneer of fair compensation that bill trumpets are just outrageous. Not only do they attempt to hide the layer of criminal rot that characterizes a group which is not concerned with the law or court rulings because it has the power to legislate its own laws, but the reasons put forth by the law’s opponents are also pretty muddy.
First, the opponents say, the law is likely to harm Israel’s international standing. Israel, which is already isolated in the world, primarily because of its settlement policy, is liable to be tried by the International Court of Justice in The Hague, and there, they claim, no arrangement laws will help.
That sounds as if violations of the law are fine as long as there is no concern that the theft will reach the international justice system, where Israel has no influence.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
If Israel ever does get brought up before the ICC, I’ll be flying in to watch.
It would be ‘the’ event of the century.
American, world politics, including the USA’s, is not granular at all. It’s governed by honchos who are very immature, uneducated, unwise, and given to a fairy tale narrative of the world–except big time world honchos would not be where they are if they did not know how to horse-trade and always be alert to cover their butt in interest of PR for domestic consumption. Nothing illustrates this more than the recently declassified recordings of President Johnson, re his policy in the ME: link to tau.ac.il
Bibi bribed his MK’s to reject the bill – bit too controversial on the international stage – but with 851 new settler builds!
The five buildings that the court has ruled must come down for being on privately owned Palestinian land will instead be replaced with 300 new homes at the same settlement.
link to maannews.net
Even the bbc (radio) reported this -9pm, including Toner saying it wasn’t ‘helpful’
Edit – call me a cynic, but I tend to wonder which editor isn’t looking when this happens on bbc!
If indeed Obama said such a thing as “giving the Israelis more attention now,” I can really see why.
Everybody’s more or less waiting for the Palestinians to come back to the table and actually negotiate a set of borders and the many other details that a real 2 state solution would require, but Abbas and company just won’t make the move.
Not exactly unusual, because several time in the last many years, they’d been offered all kinds of proposals, but always run away, preferring I suppose to opt for “waiting people out,” refusing to relinquish they’re rejection of a majority Jewish state inside any borders.
So until that day happens, there’s not much point in “chasing” after them.
But two other things are happening concurrently. The USA is revising its donation scenario that’s been keeping this bloated UNRWA thing going. And the Israelis know that there’s no point in waiting for the Palestinians to come around so they will keep on building…
So many lies and obfuscations in one post, I don’t know where to start.
I’ll let others deal with Brian’s lies regarding the peace process, but I will point out that UNRAW is anything but “bloated”. In fact, what is bloated is the United States’ aid to a rogue terrorist state known as Israel.
And Brian should just come out and confess that he has posted previously on Mondoweiss under a different screen name.
Oh Brian, you really are fresh out of hasbara school aren’t you.
Should have been:
BrianEsker says:
June 6, 2012 at 5:41 pm
…the Israelis know that there’s no point in waiting for the Palestinians to come around so they will keep on building…
Oh-Yah, anti-semite, because the sociopathic asshats in your Faustian paradise of Israshit need an excuse to continue their genocide project. I hope I can get to be as deluded as you when I grow up.
Everybody’s more or less waiting for the Palestinians to come back to the table and actually negotiate a set of borders and the many other details that a real 2 state solution would require, but Abbas and company just won’t make the move.
Oh please, Netanyahu’s own cabinet ministers have stated publicly that his Bar Ilian speech was pure unofficial bullshit that wouldn’t have been adopted if he had ever presented it to them for a vote. The Likud platform still rules-out a 2 state solution. See Haaretz, Barak Ravid, Three years since Netanyahu’s Bar-Ilan speech: Was it for real? Prime Minister’s aides say yes, but why did it never come before cabinet? link to haaretz.com
In any event, the Albanians joined the League of Nations without defined land frontiers, and when Israel joined the UN without any it became “the new normal”.
Germany, Denmark, and the Netherlands could not reach “a negotiated settlement” to their territorial disputes. The International Court of Justice noted in their contentious “North Sea Continental Shelf” case (1968) that:
Statehood is just a legal status that other existing states confer on other entities for political reasons. The Israelis never negotiated with anyone before they went to the United Nations to have the legitimacy of their “statey-ness” recognized. So I don’t see any justification whatever to ask the Palestinians to wait.
Isn’t it a wonderful word, attentive? Could mean almost anything.
So well thought out.
I agree with Avi and wonder why the moderators even allow such b.s. to be posted. Whenever someone writes something like this, there should be an auto-reply function to redirect that person to the numerous FACTS that belie the claim.
I think most people on Mondoweiss would agree, that the Israeli machine needs to be relegated to the scrapheap of history – in its entirety – as beautifully expressed by Israeli artist Mysh, here:
link to 972mag.com
What I’m not so sure of, however, is whether enough people on Mondoweiss are asking themselves if the same is now true of the US. Is the US machine fixable, or is it now simply beyond repair?:
link to youtube.com
I’m still mostly of the opinion that we’ve yet to reach the tipping point in the USA and that things remain just about fixable through the political process, yet when I read news stories like the Kill List story in the NYT from a week ago, and then read/skim through the over 1000 associated comments, only to discover that the vast majority of the comments exhibit the kind of apathetic, navel-gazing, it’s me or them, kill-them-MOOslim-terrorist-vermin-by-remote-control-so-no-one-has-to-die racism, couched within the sort of retarded rationalizing that would win a Ziobot a hot prize, and nobody on Mondoweiss seems to be talking about it within the context of those comments, those soul-shattering comments, the world around me darkens and I’m trapped in endless winter:
link to en.wikipedia.org
John Pilger described Obama very well even as ‘the left’ attacked him for saying the obvious: link to youtube.com.
Obama is a brand (Chris Hedges).
Well…. my prediction that Netanyahu’s ultimate and very secret goal of suddenly and forceably expelling all Palestinians from Palestine got mucho responses.
This horrible act can only be committed with the US being able to quash any blowback from other countrys. Right now, we can stop all repercussions that might seriously harm Israel.
Now….here’s what I did not say in my first missive…. Netanyahu knows US world wide hegemony won’t last forever and may start failing soon. Therefore, his cover for the predicted monstrous act has a short lifespan. A very short lifespan????
Ergo…. This mass expulsion of Palestinians may happen very soon.