If you were a Palestinian Israeli, and your polling place looked like this–

Oren voting
 

how would you feel about voting? (as Scott Roth asked on his twitter feed a few days ago, tweeting the photo of Israeli ambassador Michael Oren voting Jan. 22)

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.
Posted in Israel/Palestine

{ 74 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. Newclench says:

    This is not how most polling stations are. They tend to be in schools. I wonder if this is an Embassy.
    Most Israeli Palestinians actually do vote.
    Feels like a strange way to address the problem of state symbols in Israel.
    (Which should be changed to reflect both peoples.)

    • Avi_G. says:

      This is not how most polling stations are. They tend to be in schools. I wonder if this is an Embassy.

      Of course it’s an embassy, and the gaudy carpet riddled with the Star of David is fitting. But if you read Hebrew, you’d have noticed that the ballot box reads, “Washington” just above “339″.

      Phil’s article was clearly about the dominance of Jewish symbols as national symbols in an otherwise alleged democracy. That’s the point. Whether it’s an embassy, a school or a kibbutz dining hall doesn’t make a difference.

      P.S. — I highly recommend everyone watch the movie The Time that Remains. It’s a masterpiece in my view.

      • “the dominance of Jewish [Zionist] symbols as national symbols”
        —————————————-
        It’s the same thing with Israel’s national anthem. It’s a Zionist anthem.
        But what else can you expect?

        Blacks and others in America may originally not have identified with the American flag and anthem, but they could become Americans.

        Can a Palestinian become a Zionist? – Well, if American Christians can become Zionists why can’t Palestinian Muslims?

    • Pamela Olson says:

      Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza also have menorahs stamped by Israel onto their ID cards. It’s also on the currency. I wonder how Jewish people would feel in America if Jesus and/or a cross was featured on US currency and all US passports, driver’s licenses, and other IDs.

      • German Lefty says:

        “I wonder how Jewish people would feel in America if Jesus and/or a cross was featured on US currency”
        Probably the same way US atheists feel when they see the sentence “In God we trust” on the dollar bills: ignored, excluded, unwanted, oppressed.

      • The United States has a separation of church and state written into its Constitution and thus its DNA. Thus it is the ideal on this issue and Israel is far from the ideal on this issue. But please, don’t pretend that Israel is the only country that has a religious symbol on its flag. Google flags with crosses. Google flags with crescent and star. Many countries have religious icons on their flags.

  2. mondonut says:

    What exactly is the problem? Would they have been previously unaware of their countries flag? Do they have a problem with pictures of guys with beards?

    BTW, if they were a Palestinian Palestinian, and their polling place looked like…, wait – never mind.

  3. Mike_Konrad says:

    This is an insane complaint.

    What flag do you expect the Israelis to fly in a polling section?

    Some complaint are beyond reasonable

    I wonder if this will pass moderation. A lot of my posts seem to be killed. So much for free speech.

    • talknic says:

      Mike_Konrad “What flag do you expect the Israelis to fly in a polling section?”

      What’s between the flags? On the ballot box?

    • Boston says:

      Perhaps we in the USA should put a picture of Jesus on the cross on all of our ballott boxes. I am sure no Jewish Orgs would complain. That would be an insane complaint.

    • Taxi says:

      Skull and crossbones would be a more apt symbol for the pirate state of israel – oooaahrrrr!

    • German Lefty says:

      What flag do you expect the Israelis to fly in a polling section?

      Why is there a flag at polling places at all? I’ve never seen any flag at my polling place in Germany. We have no symbols on the ballot boxes either.
      Voters are not braindead. They know in which country they live and don’t need to be reminded of it all the time. Therefore, the Zionist flag at the polling place and the Jewish symbol on the ballot box are a clear provocation to non-Jewish Israelis. It’s like shouting: “You have no say here! Fuck off!”

  4. talknic says:

    The Menorah is a … A) secular symbol B) a sign of religious equality C) other

    • Avi_G. says:

      I’m gonna go with “C) Other” and let Hasbara explain it away. Surely there’s a way to spin this one, as well.

    • The Star of David is …

      a) a symbol the Nazis used to discriminate against the Jews
      b) the coat of arms of the Zionist knights
      c) only the Kabbalistic mystics know what it is

      • Mooser says:

        “The Star of David is … “

        The perfect design for a set of “mag” (cast magnesium-alloy) wheels! Klaus, you’ve headed me towards fame and fortune. I’ll have ‘em cast
        by a contract manufacturer in the Far East, triple the price, and sell ‘em in Tel Aviv. By that sign, I will conquer the after-markets!
        Very surpirsed, what with the great German history of magnesium-alloy casting (VW engine/trans cases, for instance) you haven’t thought of this first.

        • “the great German history of magnesium-alloy casting …”
          ————————————–
          You see Mooser, we Germans are screwed up.
          WE think of our misdeeds – YOU come up with something great German.

        • Mooser says:

          “WE think of our misdeeds – YOU come up with something great German.”

          Klaus, there is no denying the introspective, self critical morality of Germany. Remember how the awareness of their misdeeds kept them out of WW1? And in the late 1930′s and 1940′s Germany (no doubt with an acute awareness of their misdeeds!) steadfastly refused to get involved in any of the totalitarianism, genocide, or aggression which was going on all around them. They even pacifically resisted the French and Polish attacks.

          And you know what, Klaus? Japanese casting makes your’s look like junk. Before they cast anything in Germany, they break the mold.

        • Germany’s “misdeeds … late 1930′s and 1940′s”
          ————-
          I think Mooser “1930′s and 1940′s” is wrong. – No apostrophe!

      • Taxi says:

        The ‘Star of David’?

        It’s originally the symbol for the mystical tenet: ‘As Above, so below’. A symbol that’s been in use since way before Abraham was born, since the days of the great Egyptian alchemist king, named by the Greeks as Hermes Trismegistus, reputed to have lived about 1900 B.C. and known throughout recorded time as the Grand Master and Father of alchemy.

        Made of two interlocking triangles, the symbol represents the union of equal opposites. In alchemy, the top point of the triangle symbolizing fire and the downward triangle symbolizing water. Ancient alchemists believed that if two opposing forces were successfully joined, a cosmic/godly transmutation occurs that can be utilized and used to perform the impossible: for instance, transform base metal into gold, but more importantly, gain the ability to achieve enlightenment through the successful convergence of internal masculine and feminine energies – a “chymical wedding”, a state of “conjunctio”, as it is know – giving therefore the adept alchemist direct access to the ‘creator’ and the mysteries of creation.

        We know this symbol in modern times as the ‘Star of David’ cuz the early jews adopted it as their beloved symbol, telling us that David drew opposing triangles on his shield while he battled Goliath and won. It’s a symbol of the victory of the small over the large.

        Indulge me here please and note with me the difference in interpretation of the same symbol within the span of 2000 years. Note also the intellectual antagonism between mysticism and religion.

        Currently, in the 21st century, the ‘Star of David’ is embossed on the israeli flag. The world now cohesively associates the ‘Star of David’ with israel. The world now also associates israel with Apartheid.

        Note here the evolution in meaning them two little triangles have spun through. I wonder who will claim the same symbol in ten thousand years time? And why?

        • RoHa says:

          It depends on how many Morris dancers there are in the troupe.

          If there are six, you get a Star of David.

          link to google.com.au

        • Mooser says:

          Just remember, RoHa, I’ve got a copyright on my exclusive “Star ‘O David” mag wheel design. You think I’m gonna let this bunch of gonifs scamper off with my gilt-edged ideas? Not on your tin-type, Margery! What am I, a greenhorn, a rube?
          (RoHa, I know your name isn’t “Margery”, it’s just a common expression around here. Anyway, it was back in the ‘teens)

        • eljay says:

          >> Currently, in the 21st century, the ‘Star of David’ is embossed on the israeli flag. The world now cohesively associates the ‘Star of David’ with israel. The world now also associates israel with Apartheid.
          >> Note here the evolution in meaning them two little triangles have spun through.

          The swastika, too, was once just a relatively uncontroversial symbol…

          Does the Star of David Have Religious Significance in Judaism?
          >> There are many ideas about the symbolic meaning of the Star of David. Some Kabbalists thought that the six points represented God’s absolute rule over the universe in all six directions: north, south, east, west, up and down.

          Only six? Did “god” leave absolute rule of the temporal direction to Satan?

          ;-)

  5. a blah chick says:

    What a nice picture of his excellency looking all sober and contemplative, or perhaps he’s just passing some gas.

    That is a whole lot of nationalism in one square meter, where was this taken? When I vote the most I see is maybe a flag hanging in a corner of the gymnasium.

    • Avi_G. says:

      That is a whole lot of nationalism in one square meter, where was this taken?

      Israel has two faces. The first face is the democratic face it likes to present to tourists when they first arrive at Ben-Gurion airport with a sign that reads “Welcome” in Hebrew, Arabic and English. The same goes for street signs.

      Israel hopes that foreigners will equate the Arabic language with nationalism, thus appearing to be a democracy that recognizes Palestinians as a national minority. (For the record, Israel refuses to recognize Palestinians in Israel as a ‘national minority’). Moreover, that is precisely the reason why Israel prefers to call Palestinians with Israeli citizenship “Israeli Arabs”.

      The second and true face unravels when one goes to places where only Israelis visit (i.e. schools, hospitals, polling stations, embassies etc.) then the Arabic language disappears and with it the pretense that Israel is a country of all its citizens.

      • yrn says:

        Avi _G

        Your comment and the article have the same similarity.

        Nothing between it and the truth……

        Phil takes a pictures of the Israeli Embassy in the US as an example of the common Israeli poll……… (or if you think that Israeli schools look like An embassy…….. want wander) and you as an expert who live in Israel and claim such rubbish that I would not go into even……..
        Every sign in Israel has both Hebrew and Arabic.

        If you don’t have anything significant to criticize, don’t ……
        don’t get lower from what you got to already………….

        • sardelapasti says:

          “Every sign in Israel has both Hebrew and Arabic.”
          You’re so right. Every theocratic oppressive symbol has bilingual text, so what are they complaining about?

        • Avi_G. says:

          If you could only string together a coherent and intelligible argument…….

        • tree says:

          So. yrn, are you saying that only the ballot boxes in Embassies have the Menorah on them? No other ballot boxes throughout the country look like that? I suspect they all look like that. And even if its only at the Israeli Embassy, what about the Embassy employees who aren’t Jewish? You know, shared values and all, there must be a few Christian or Muslim Israelis employed by the Embassy, right? Right? A least a cleaning lady or two?

          I think you and Mike and mondonut failed the “Jewish sensitivity” test. Can’t have a Christmas tree in public in Nazareth but we sure can put a Menorah on the ballot box! And none of you even noticed it, or noted its “historical significance” to Palestinians.

        • tree says:

          Every sign in Israel has both Hebrew and Arabic.

          So where’s the Arabic on the ballot box?

        • Light says:

          “Every sign in Israel has both Hebrew and …”

          link to abcnews.go.com

          link to 972mag.com

        • Actually I was struck by the lack of Arabic the first hours I entered Israel. MANY highway signs on the way to Tel Aviv had ONLY English and Hebrew. Street signs were generally Hebrew and English only. Arabic was almost nonexistent in the Jewish dominated areas which is almost everywhere and in the most key places. And on top of it with 20 percent of Israelis Arabic speaking, and about 50% of those under their control? With a few words of Arabic from friends I far surpassed all, ALL the many Israelis I knew/know…. yeah they take Arabic in school for a bit but apparently it is a farce, odd when such comes in handy when occupying and colonizing a people… And the few words of Arabic Israelis often know? Often appropriated into Hebrew, and sometimes they do not even know it.

          You my friend are ignorant of the use of Arabic in Israel, and/or lying.

        • And BTW this comment was to yrn, “Every sign in Israel has both Hebrew and Arabic.”

          Utter BS lie, and this is from someone accusing the article and comments of lacking truth…..

          The hypocrisy of Zionists is often not even hypocrisy…. it is projection, 100%. The hurl charges at others that do not fit to those they slander, but clearly applies to them in the same breath.

          The heights of deception, and often self-deception. Poor brainwashed and immoral Zios…. I really am starting to pity them, especially as their twisted ideology will end so badly for all involved.

        • In Tel Aviv the signs are in Hebrew and English and not Arabic. In Jerusalem the signs are in Hebrew, English and Arabic (as a rule). On intercity highways the signs are in all three also as a rule.

          I do not recall any symbol on the ballot box when I voted four years ago in Jerusalem.

        • German Lefty says:

          “The hypocrisy of Zionists is often not even hypocrisy…. it is projection, 100%. The hurl charges at others that do not fit to those they slander, but clearly applies to them in the same breath.”
          That’s exactly right.

        • tree says:

          I do not recall any symbol on the ballot box when I voted four years ago in Jerusalem.

          They appear to be on all of them now.

          link to google.com

          Maybe the Menorahs weren’t there 4 years ago. Or maybe you just lacked the requisite sensitivity to notice them then.

          Oops, this one is from 2009. Yup, they were there 4 years ago.

          link to examineropinion.wordpress.com

        • “Every sign in Israel has both Hebrew and Arabic.”
          —————-
          I see yrn -
          Israel is a place like Canada where two peoples/native speakers went to
          and now live in one state and English and French is on equal footing.

          Yrn – It’s of course the same thing with the Jews and the Arabs who both came to settle Palestine. – I remember that the indigenous people of Canada were the Indians and the Eskimos. But I forgot: Who were the indigenous people of Palestine?

        • I know your answer to my question yrn -
          ———————–
          The indigenous people of Palestine are the Jews.
          And Israel’s Law of Return means: An indigenous people returns.

          Has someone ever heard of this before? – An indigenous people returns.

        • One more note on ‘the indigenous people who returns to its land’.
          ————
          - There are the Orthodox who believe in God who gave them the land.

          And there is this joke (but true) about the secular Israeli Jews:

          - “They don’t believe in God but believe he gave them the land.”
          ———————————————————————————————–
          (Israel Shahak told that joke – see youtube ‘Shahak at MIT in 1994′.)

        • Mooser says:

          - “They don’t believe in God but believe he gave them the land.”

          Couldn’t you give us the slip?

        • “They don’t believe in God but believe he gave them the land.”
          ————————————————————————————————–
          Mooser -
          Israel Shahak said (verbatim):

          “One of our jokes, very famous in Israel is …

          - There are some Jews who don’t believe that God exists but who still believe that God gave to the Jews the ownership of the land of Israel.”
          ———————————————————————————————————–
          He says that at 0:17:28 of part 2 of the youtube video:
          “Noam Chomsky and Israel Shahak on Jewish Fundamentalism”
          - Chomsky and Shahak spoke together at MIT on November 4, 1994.
          —————————————————–
          MRW mentioned that video and I’m glad I saw it. – I never saw Shahak before. In his speech and the Q&A section (part 2), he comes across very mellow – after all he is an Eastern European Jew – than I expected him to be, judging from his books. – Chomsky is very American.

        • yrn says:

          anonymouscomments

          google ” signs in Israel” and look for Images…….
          Guess you had Anti-Arabic glasses once you entered Israel…….

        • yrn says:

          Light

          Get some more interesting information.
          Non of what you posted happened (news from 2009).
          Those issues come and go and what do you expect of an Al Jazeera reporter, if not to jump on such an info .

          Nothing has changed, All signs are in Hebrew and Arabic.

          Bad for you guys, you have nothing to climb on, keep on digging, I am sure you will find something, that’s your hobby.

        • yrn says:

          Klaus Bloemker

          You are living in Lala Land.
          Why Canada
          Israel is like Swiss, or Belgium or the UK were there are few languages and that’s the only problem they have……..
          we just have to solve the language issue with the Arabs and that’s it, like in the above countries.

          I don’t know what you smoke, but its not tobacco.

  6. radii says:

    exactly how israel wants it – to rub your nose in their power

  7. tommy says:

    Israelis practice a nationalism informed by Western culture that is foreign to Palestinians and other Arabs, whose culture has been historically dominated by geographically local imperialists who shared their religion for over a thousand years. Palestinians do not have the history of reinforcing their nationalist identity through the warring conflicts that ravaged Europe and molded those identities into independent states. The European colonizers of Israel have intruded their warring ways into Palestine, oppressing the indigenous people with an alien violence they had no historical knowledge to draw upon in opposition. Israel’s dominance has become so severe, it can now just use nationalist symbols like flags and religious symbols like the menorah to intimidate its unwanted subjects while practicing representative democracy. Arendt and Orwell would be impressed.

    • tokyobk says:

      “The European colonizers of Israel have intruded their warring ways into Palestine, oppressing the indigenous people with an alien violence they had no historical knowledge to draw upon in opposition.”

      If you are saying that modern nationalism including Zionism, and the nation state developed in Europe, then of course you are right the flavor of conquest and organization was slightly different. Though the British took over an Ottoman construct and modified it, right?

      Anyway, there is no bright line between the so called West and the East and if there was it would not run through Palestine which is one of “the West’s” points of origin. Palestine was never cordoned off from rest of the world, Arab North African, Persian, Ottoman and European, nor its developments including warfare. As you acknowledge, the Palestinians were not always Muslim, but even within a thousand years were also not only Muslim.

      One of the most compelling arguments against Zionism is that the native Palestinians are the rightful inheritors of all of the cultures that have gone before it on that stretch of land, including the Jewish and Christian legacies.

      And while a kind of romantic orientalism prefers innocent natives, it turns out “the natives” are fully human in their peaceful and martial abilities, certainly true in the case of Arab civilization.

      • tommy says:

        The British took over an Ottoman construct called Palestine and modified it into a European colony now called Israel. A colony backed by the full force of the US, which Palestinians have few capabilities to oppose.

      • Mooser says:

        “Palestine was never cordoned off from rest of the world, Arab North African, Persian, Ottoman and European, nor its developments including warfare. As you acknowledge, the Palestinians were not always Muslim, but even within a thousand years were also not only Muslim.”

        tokyobk, if you believe “might makes right” just come out and say it. Do you think we can’t read? I understand perfectly. for you, a real tough guy, familiar with the uses of violence, any kind of justice or morality based solution would be a farce.

    • Mooser says:

      Well said, Tommy.

    • jon s says:

      Tommy,
      Arab nationalism, including the Palestinian branch, was also influenced by European nationalism.
      You seem to think that the Palestinians were some sort of pacifists, victims of the “warring ways” of the Israelis, whom you regard as European colonizers and aliens. All of which is far from the truth.
      On the topic here : it’s beyond me why anyone would think it odd that the national flag and emblem are displayed at polling places.

      • tree says:

        On the topic here : it’s beyond me why anyone would think it odd that the national flag and emblem are displayed at polling places.

        Its called a lack of “shared values”, jon. Or as Boston said, do you think that Jewish or other minority religious groups would complain if the US starts putting a crucifix on our ballot boxes?

        • jon s says:

          Plenty of Western, democratic, countries have crosses on their flags.

        • tree says:

          Plenty of Western, democratic, countries have crosses on their flags.

          But not the United States, which was specifically founded on the separation of Church and State nearly two hundred and fifty years ago, while Israel was founded almost two hundred years later based on a melding of Synagogue and State, and on privilege for those of a certain religion, and oppression against those who are not. Like I said, the “oddity” you mention is all about a lack of shared values between the US and Israel. Israel’s founding goes against one of the US’s most basic founding principles.

      • tommy says:

        The flag and emblem represent oppression, not representative democracy or an inclusive culture.

  8. piotr says:

    Strangely enough, all northern European countries have flags with Christian cross, and famously, British flag is a combination of English, Scottish and Irish crosses (Scottish being the cross of St. Andrew). And citizens or subjects who are not Christian do not complain.

    I was also told that in Denmark the law says that to be a teacher in a public school you should be a Lutheran, but the way it is interpreted is that you should be fluent in Danish (if you pronounce Danish language the way Danes do you are assumed to be a Lutheran).

    Of course, Israel has some other problems, like municipal employees issuing curses (fatwas) against renting real estate to non-Jews or military employees issuing curses (fatwas) against showing mercy to non-Jewish enemies and less gruesome but still bothersome aspects of theocracy.

    • jon s says:

      Not only northern Europe. See the flags of Switzerland and of Greece.
      And the flags of Arab and Moslem countries contain symbols of Islam : the crescent, the color green.

      • Avi_G. says:

        jon s says:
        February 3, 2013 at 1:02 am

        Not only northern Europe. See the flags of Switzerland and of Greece.
        And the flags of Arab and Moslem countries contain symbols of Islam : the crescent, the color green.

        False equivalence.

        Very few of the countries you mentioned privilege the majority group over other minorities.

        Britain, Norway, Sweden, to name a few, do NOT discriminate against their own citizens on the basis of religion. Neither does Turkey whose flag bears the Crescent.

        Israel, however, privileges Jews over non-Jews. And you, of all people, should know that given that your name is Jon and you are a Jewish Israeli citizen. When did you make Aliyah? Are you still getting checks from the Jewish Agency for moving to Israel? Do tell.

        • jon s says:

          Avi, So I understand that your problem is not with the flag and emblem, but with the discrimination.
          Turkey sure isn’t a good example of non-discrimination. Ask the Kurds, ask the Greeks who were ethnically cleansed from Northern Cyprus.
          I don’t see why you have to make the discussion personal. So as not to dodge your question: I was brought here as a kid by my parents, z”l, who were lifelong Zionists. Checks from the JA? Huh? Where do I get them?
          Now it’s your turn: seeing that your name is Avi, have you emigrated? how long ago? do you retain ties with family and friends?

        • Avi_G. says:

          You’re changing the subject to fit your framing. The issue was religious symbols and equality. The Kurds are Moslems. The Greeks in northern Cyprus are not Turkish citizens. Their status is closer to that of Palestinian in the occupied West Bank. In addition, Turkish law does not require one to be Moslem in order to become a citizen, nor does Turkey consider Islam to be both a religion and a nationality.

          Israel, however, has appropriated Jewish symbols and requires an immigrant to be Jewish in order to be granted citizenship.

          And you made it personal when you posted your defense of Israel with willful blindness to the issue of priviliges and favoritism. Perhaps next time you’ll be more honest with yourself and with everyone who reads your comment.

        • jon s says:

          I don’t follow your reasoning. Does the fact that the Kurds are fellow-Moslems mean that they are not victims of discrimination? And is the ethnic cleansing in Northern Cyprus OK because the Greeks aren’t Turkish citizens?
          Israel, as a Jewish state with a Jewish majority, uses Jewish symbols. Why is that surprising, or wrong?
          I’ll leave it to any fair and intelligent reader of our exchange to make a judgement as to who made it personal and who has been honest.

        • Avi_G. says:

          In case you missed it, the article in this thread is about the Palestinian citizens of Israel. So the occupation does not apply to this discussion. Similarly, the occupation of northern Cyprus does not apply.

          I’ll leave it to any fair and intelligent reader of our exchange to make a judgement as to who made it personal and who has been honest.

          That you wrote the above after writing:

          Israel, as a Jewish state with a Jewish majority, uses Jewish symbols. Why is that surprising, or wrong?

          Is yet more proof that you are either (1) Dense or (2) a habitual Hasbarat.

          Given your track record, I’m going to go with (2).

          Incidentally, since you claim to have voted Meretz in this election, it’s unfortunate that you proudly wear your hypocrisy.

          And spare me the wounded-animal, righteous-than-thou nonsense. It’s pathetic.

        • Cliff says:

          Israel as a Jewish State is wrong. And so is any other discriminatory ethno-religious State.

          Every single argument you and other Zionists have utilized here is stale and derivative of the same basic 4 rules to defending Israel:

          The case for Israel is made of four propositions that should always be presented in the correct escalating order.

          1. We rock
          2. They suck
          3. You suck
          4. Everything sucks

          That’s it. Now you know everything that it took me a lifetime to learn. The rest is details; filling in the dotted lines.

          You begin by saying how great Israel is. Israel want peace; Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East; the desert blooms; kibutz; Israelis invented antibiotics, the wheel, the E minor scale; thanks to the occupation Palestinians no longer live in caves; Israel liberates Arab women; Israel has the most moral army in the world, etc.

          This will win over 50% of your listeners immediately. Don’t worry about the factual content. This is about brand identity, not writing a PhD. Do you really think BP is ‘beyond petroleum’?

          Then you go into the second point: They suck. Here you talk about the legal system of Saudi Arabia, gay rights in Iran, slave trade in the Sudan, Mohammad Atta, the burqa, Palestinians dancing after 9/11, Arafat’s facial hair, etc.

          link to jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com

        • piotr says:

          My point is that there are substantive reasons to criticize the record of Israel on the treatment of linguistic and religious minorities, and does not have to pick too much upon the question of state symbols.

  9. RoHa says:

    “Strangely enough, all northern European countries have flags with Christian cross,”

    Not all, but certainly Britain and the Scandanavian countries.

    “And citizens or subjects who are not Christian do not complain.”

    Because these days no-one takes them seriously as Christian crosses.

    “if you pronounce Danish language the way Danes do you are assumed to be a Lutheran”

    By Danes. Swedes assume you are suffering from some terrible throat disease.

    • piotr says:

      A course in logic helps: a particular terrible throat disease -> Lutheran, but the converse implication does not hold. And it is reasonable to demand that teachers have that affliction if you want to impart it to children.

  10. Mooser says:

    Wow, It’s like a wish fulfillment dream or something. That Blue Box is so big! I mean, look, rifling the Blue Box was hardly worth it. Couple bucks, maybe. Only good part was tittering when my Mom noticed the box was now empty and said “Oh, I guess Elijah came and got it!” Anyway, chump-change, mostly, not even enough for a fix. Jeez, you ever been dope-sick on the High Holy Days? It’s a drag.

    But that blue Box up there