Helen Thomas dies

Israel/Palestine
on 193 Comments
helen thomas
Helen Thomas, 1920-2013

“Her character was assassinated before her body submitted. She only leaves Matt Lee behind. Rest in peace!” –Muhammad Idrees Ahmad.

CNN says:

Longtime White House journalist Helen Thomas has died at age 92 after a long illness, sources told CNN Saturday.

Thomas covered 10 presidents over nearly half a century, and became a legend in the industry.

Targeted by Israel supporters:

Her career, however, came to an end under a cloud of controversy.

Thomas, then working for the media conglomerate Hearst as a syndicated columnist, was blasted for comments she made regarding Jewish people.

In 2010, a YouTube video surfaced showing her saying that Israel should “get the hell out of Palestine,” and that the Jewish people should go home to “Poland, Germany … and America and everywhere else.”

Thomas apologized for her remarks, writing, “They do not reflect my heartfelt belief that peace will come to the Middle East only when all parties recognize the need for mutual respect and tolerance. May that day come soon.”

She announced her retirement one week later.

About Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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193 Responses

  1. American
    July 20, 2013, 2:20 pm

    some comments from my mail club …

    ‘I love that gal — fired for saying the Jews ought to get out of Palestine… I will mourn her until I join her…
    Oklahoma USAF

    ”The early news today reported the death of Helen Thomas, the maven of the White House News crew. For her years of nailing Presidents until they were forced to tell the truth, she deserves to lie in state at the White House”
    Dorothy in Kansas

    • tokyobk
      July 20, 2013, 4:24 pm

      Maybe he does and I am sure you do but the statement is racist and sick.

      “The Jews” should be anywhere they want to be as long as it is in equality and with respect to others living there.

      I don’t think her entire career should be judged by one statement but this one is a line and which side you stand on it reveals your agenda.

      And it is not just that she said the Jews should get out, its that she said the Jews should “go back to Poland and Germany” which is pretty callous considering also that in Poland and Germany they used to say the Jews should “Go back to Palestine.” More importantly, a majority Israeli Jews don’t come from those countries, most now having ME ancestry. Jews (both long residing and immigrant) are as native to Palestine as her own Greek Orthodox ancestors.

      “Zionism should be dismantled.” “Israel should become a nation of its citizens.” Even “Jews from Brooklyn should go back to Brooklyn” counts as something different than her truly despicable words, words by the way which only increase a sense of Jewish persecution.

      • W.Jones
        July 20, 2013, 4:44 pm

        Thomas said:

        Nesenoff: Any comments on Israel?
        Thomas: Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine.

        If Palestine means the Palestinian territories, then her comment is in line with an aim of evacuating the territories and having a 2SS.

        Thomas: Remember, these people are occupied and it’s their land. It’s not German, it’s not Poland…
        Why push people out of there who have lived there for centuries?

        Isn’t it true that Palestinians are living under occupation or in exile and unable to have sovereignty? And isn’t her second question here a fair one?

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 5:58 pm

          Yes, finish the quote. The interviewer said “Jews” and she nodded and said .. “…and America and everywhere else.” They should “Go Home.”

          Yes, her second quote is fine and her career of breaking ground in particular for women should not be erased by one stupid, bigoted, counterproductive statement, which was by any fair standard (which is the only useful one), bigoted, stupid and counterproductive.

        • Hostage
          July 20, 2013, 9:04 pm

          Yes, finish the quote. The interviewer said “Jews” and she nodded and said .. “…and America and everywhere else.” They should “Go Home.”

          You have to intentionally misconstrue what she actually said to make it apply it to Jews born in Israel going anywhere else. You better believe that there are large cities comprised of American Jews living in places like the Etzion Bloc in Palestine who really should go home to America.

          If we don’t even consider allowing the Mexicans to live wherever they want to with equality, remind me what makes us Jews so “special”? No other people have a right to live outside their own country of origin, or to demand the right to occupy another people’s country in the interest of security or having a “safe haven”.

        • W.Jones
          July 20, 2013, 9:11 pm

          Yes, finish the quote. The interviewer said “Jews” and…

          I didn’t finish the quote because I wasn’t about the proof text her whole conversation. The interviewer asked her about what Israel should do, and then he followed up by rephrasing her answer as if it was about “the Jews” as a whole.

          I agree with your comment that naturally there are a small portion of Jews who have lived there for thousands of years. Obviously she wasn’t talking about them, because they would not be going “back” to America. Instead, she was following along with his re-characterization of her answer.

          It’s like this:

          Questioner: “What should an abused wife do?”
          Responder: “Leave the abusive house.”
          Questioner: “So the man should lose everything?”
          Responder: “Remember, the wife is being abused.”

          Notice that the second question is a re-characterization. The Questioner concludes that the Responder believes that an abusive husband should lose 100% of what he has.
          Thomas’ answer about immigrants leaving to end an occupation got turned into “the Jews” leaving, which is not what she was originally talking about and is obviously too broad – even the Palestinians consider a significant portion of Jews in the Holy Land “Palestinians.”

      • Cliff
        July 20, 2013, 5:14 pm

        How about ‘the Jews’ go wherever they want as long as it’s based on mutual respect and cooperation rather than Jewish colonialism and nationalism?

        Jews should be able to live in Palestine so long as it’s not with the express interest of stealing the land from the indigenous population. And Palestinians from 48′ and 67′ and their families should be allowed to return to their land in what is now Israel.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 6:07 pm

          Yes Cliff we agree yours is a different statement and one which would probably still make many people angry but not me, because I agree with it.

        • W.Jones
          July 20, 2013, 8:32 pm

          Jews should be able to live in Palestine so long as it’s not with the express interest of stealing the land from the indigenous population. ~ Cliff

          Cliff we agree yours is a different statement… I agree with it. ~ tokyobk

          Cliff said that if the purpose is not to steal land, then they should live there, but otherwise they should not. Would you, Toky, say that the purpose of the current system there is for one group to control the land instead of the group living there for the last 1200 years?

          And if that is in fact the case, would you agree with Thomas’ conclusion about what they “should” do, thus putting you in agreement with Thomas about what “should” happen in this case?

      • NoMoreIsrael
        July 20, 2013, 5:20 pm

        “The Jews” should be anywhere they want to be as long as it is in equality and with respect to others living there.”

        yeah–well after 60+ years of brutalizing the native inhabitants and stealing their land, they have forfeited that right. It’s time for them to go.

        And please don’t misquote Thomas for sleazy, holocaust-mongering effect. She was very clear in saying Jews should go back where they came from, including Poland and Germany.

        Perfectly acceptable statement. She should not have apologized.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 6:02 pm

          The Jews who were born in Palestine and whose parents and grandparents were born in Palestine are home.

          The Jews whose parents were expulsed from Arab countries should certainly be given the right to “go back, but also the right to stay as equal citizens.

          You can argue different but then you are not arguing against expulsions and citizenship based on ethnic status, just for your team.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 6:10 pm

          You either have justifications for mass ethnic expulsions or you don’t.

          Yes, interesting choices. When was the last time a group of Jews moved from Poland and Germany to Palestine and under what circumstance.

          Jews should and by the way will stay in Palestine. The question is under what circumstances.

        • American
          July 20, 2013, 7:36 pm

          tokyobk says:
          July 20, 2013 at 6:02 pm

          The Jews whose parents were expulsed from Arab countries should certainly be given the right to “go back, but also the right to stay as equal citizens>>>>>>>>>>

          Do you agree then that Palestines whose parents were explused in 1948 should also have the right of return?

        • Hostage
          July 20, 2013, 9:14 pm

          The Jews who were born in Palestine and whose parents and grandparents were born in Palestine are home.

          Yes and nothing Thomas actually said suggested that she thought otherwise. Now please address the millions of Jews who hold two passports and were born in other countries of origin or nationality and stop dissembling.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 9:26 pm

          There is every reason to suppose she meant the Jews since she did not refine her statements when she was asked about “The Jews.”

          I think people that hold multiple passports are trying to, from the Yiddish, dance at two weddings with one tuchas. I think they need to decide.

        • Citizen
          July 21, 2013, 6:02 am

          @ tokyobk

          Pretty cheeky of them, eh?

        • Erasmus
          July 21, 2013, 7:30 am

          Question:
          How many Jewish Double Passport Holders reside in Israel and oPt ???

          i would be very much interested to know what the figures are of Jewish double Passport Holders (dual citizenship) residing in Israel and the oPt.

          Does anybody know or can give a relevant source of information (apart from the Israel Board of Statistics, whose population figures have to be taken with a pound of salt.
          Thanks

      • libra
        July 20, 2013, 5:26 pm

        yokyobk: “The Jews” should be anywhere they want to be as long as it is in equality and with respect to others living there.

        That “as long as…” is quite a caveat though, isn’t it tokyobk? After all, even Phil has problems in the post office with the respecting others part.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 6:03 pm

          Yes, its a huge caveat and obviously, if you read what I wrote I accept that caveat.

          You are ether for ethnic expulsions or against them.

        • American
          July 20, 2013, 6:46 pm

          ”After all, even Phil has problems in the post office with the respecting others part.”……Libra

          The Rule on Respect is—All people are automatically entitled to respect until/unless they prove they dont deserve respect.
          The Rule on Rude is—— Most everyone with a spark of life in them has their moments.

        • libra
          July 20, 2013, 8:12 pm

          tokyobk: You are ether for ethnic expulsions or against them.

          tokyobk, if you’re against ethnic expulsions then I think you need to have a little chat with Mike Konrad on this thread here.

        • Hostage
          July 20, 2013, 9:27 pm

          You are ether for ethnic expulsions or against them.

          Oh please, I’ve noted before that a Jew from Scarsdale can move to the Etzion block, marry a Jew from Tel Aviv, and be granted residency, citizenship, and serve in the IDF. If a Palestinian from Scarsdale moved to Ramallah and wished to marry an Israeli Bedouin who had served in the IDF, that person would be told to get bent, even if they offered to volunteer for service in the IDF.

          An Israeli Bedouin can’t even earn the right to live on his or her ancestral lands by serving in the IDF, but a Jew from Scardale might very well be heavily subsidized to live on them by moving to Israel and doing service in the IDF. I’m all for expelling ex-pats to their countries of origin, unless that would cause refoulment of a refugee, on the grounds of the rights of the indigenous people to permanent sovereignty over their territory and the prohibition against exploitation of their natural resources by aliens under customary norms of law. There’s nothing bigoted about that attitude at all.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 9:34 pm

          The first part is whataboutism and by the way you have no argument from me about the hypocrisy of right of return.

          The second part sounds good until you start getting into who is native and who is alien. If someone born in Qatar and raised in Egypt can “come back” to Palestine because he is Arab but someone whose grandfather was born in Palestine on purchased land is considered alien because he is a Jew you are engaging in racism not in a equality based solution.

          The distinction is important, and the solution is to accept that all people living there, especially born there, belong there.

      • mijj
        July 20, 2013, 6:03 pm

        > “The Jews” should be anywhere they want to be as long as it is in equality and with respect to others living there. <

        "The Jews", or anybody else, shouldn't be marked out for special treatment.

        So, really, the question is: should *anyone* be able to settle anywhere, even if the local population (from their point of view) don't want intruders – and even if the hopeful incoming people say they respect the locals? Eg. can the Chinese expect to be able to settle in Israel?

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 6:17 pm

          I don’t have a problem with Jews and other minorities having some special protections. I think majority groups often call immigrants “intruders.” I think Jews have not had the easiest time in Europe or the ME (both places being natives). I think Jews moving legally to Palestine and setting up strong social and business networks to protect themselves and their interests, cultural centers, synagogues would have been and should be fine.

          So yes and no, I think nativism is a bad thing generally.

          And in this case the idea that Jews qua Jews are interlopers makes my blood boil.

          I think HT had a distinguished and worthy career. I think that she said something really stupid that goes to the heart of why some Jews think we need and army.

          I think those cheering these particular words are revealing themselves.

        • American
          July 20, 2013, 7:22 pm

          ”And in this case the idea that Jews qua Jews are interlopers makes my blood boil……”’……..tokyobk

          Again with the misrepresentations?

          It is and always has been the “”Jew qua nation” , not the Jew qua Jew ‘individual” that was /is considered an interloper within a nation.

          I imagine that if Jews had intergrated into Palestine and surroundng areas as’ individuals’ and not as the Jew qua Nation ..while there would have been bumps in the road to intergrating numbers of Jews with the local population…..we wouldnt have the nightmare situtation we have today in Palestine.

          Imo you totally blew it. After WWII Jews were virtually guarented freedom from ‘persecution’ and the freedom to live in any country they pleased by a world shocked by the Nazis. But instead of embracing and accepting that, many of you chose to follow the opposite path of the Zionist cult.
          Now the zionist have re created a problem for the Jews.
          Blame yourselves.

        • lyn117
          July 20, 2013, 8:32 pm

          Thank you tokyobk

          It wasn’t that Jews qua Jews were interlopers, it was that Jews qua Zionists had a clear intention of getting rid of the “Arabs” by one means or another.

          Setting up business networks “to protect themselves” would be discrimination along racist lines, like whites in the post-reconstruction south would boycott any business which hired a black person on equal terms. This is exactly what many Zionists did when they arrived in Palestine, or tried to do, ban employment of “Arabs” in Jewish businesses, and such practices continue to this day.

        • tree
          July 20, 2013, 10:52 pm

          I think Jews moving legally to Palestine and setting up strong social and business networks to protect themselves and their interests, cultural centers, synagogues would have been and should be fine.

          Of course, in Mandate Palestine, for the Zionist Jews ( as opposed to the smaller Old Yishuv) those “strong social and business networks” involved setting up ethnic land covenants, discriminating in housing, employment and business transactions against the local population, and refusing to agree to any democratic assembly there that didn’t give them a preset numerical advantage above their actual numbers. And most of the Jews in Mandate Palestine did not purchase the land they lived on, but they did get to “inherit” it when the State of Israel confiscated land owned by the expelled indigenous population. This was not innocent immigration to escape persecution. There were selective processes that the Jewish Agency used to approve which “pioneers” got to come legally to Palestine, and ideology and the ability to contribute to the Zionist community were primary considerations, NOT refugee status.

          I would assume this is all known to you, so why dissemble here? I would also hope that you would find that moving to another country with the particular aim of dispossessing the native population in order to set up an exclusive ethnocracy is neither moral, nor “fine”, nor in the end a wise move.

        • RoHa
          July 21, 2013, 1:38 am

          “I think Jews moving legally to Palestine and setting up strong social and business networks to protect themselves and their interests, cultural centers, synagogues would have been and should be fine.”

          In other words, you approve of immigrants refusing to integrate into the society and polity they have entered. You think it is fine for them to refuse to support the people they now live among, and instead set up a society which excludes them.

          Hardly surprising that such people get called “intruders”, because that is exactly what they are.

      • Annie Robbins
        July 20, 2013, 6:14 pm

        tokyobk, since the woman is dead where on earth would we be without you gracing our comment section (6 comments so far) and right at the top reminding us throughout:

        thus far racist and sick, callous, truly despicable, stupid, bigoted, counterproductive statement, …… bigoted, stupid and counterproductive.

        and we got it. w/your ‘huge caveat’ that you “accept”

        I don’t think her entire career should be judged by one statement

        i’ll really believe that if you just repeat another 10 times for us surrounded by more thrilling adjectives denouncing her.

        edit: i am not sure if you are aware we’ve already had this conversation before here, so nothing you’re saying is ‘new’ to any of us. needless to say this thread will now be dominated by this:

        Targeted by Israel supporters

        even at the announcement of her death you can’t leave it alone. they’ll be no place free of your ptv today for those of us who really liked her.

        You are ether for ethnic expulsions or against them. ….

        You either have justifications for mass ethnic expulsions or you don’t.

        before you get too carried away i’d like to insert she never advocated for mass expulsions, she said she thought the jews should go back where they came from. under the circumstances i can’t say i blame her.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 6:20 pm

          Annie — You brought up the topic.
          American quoted his/her friend’s praising her words to which I responded.
          But yes, this line matters to me and it should matter to you as well.
          6 responses to my statements and six responses to those.
          Its a comment section.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 6:37 pm

          she did not say x because she was suggesting voluntuary x. Great.
          The Jews who live and were born in historic Palestine are home, Annie.
          I know you don’t blame her which is why you are a passionate advocate for the Palestinian cause but imo not really a human rights activist. (Naturally your opinion of what you are is more important than mine.)

        • OlegR
          July 20, 2013, 6:42 pm

          /she said she thought the jews should go back where they came from. under the circumstances i can’t say i blame her./

          I never doubted you Annie…

        • Frankie P
          July 20, 2013, 7:25 pm

          @Annie,

          “even at the announcement of her death you can’t leave it alone. they’ll be no place free of your ptv today for those of us who really liked her.”

          Classic. Annie, I really love your comments, even though I have criticized you in the past for gatekeeping. You are a class act. Keep it up. I wanted to say that to you a long time ago, but better late than never I guess.

          @tokyobk,

          ‘“The Jews” should be anywhere they want to be as long as it is in equality and with respect to others living there.’

          So in other words, HT was right. They should get the hell out of Palestine, because they have surely demonstrated since 1948 that they are unable to live in equality and respect to the indiginous population there.

          “I think Jews moving legally to Palestine and setting up strong social and business networks to protect themselves and their interests, cultural centers, synagogues would have been and should be fine.”

          Speak the truth man! What you mean to say is “I think Jews moving legally to the US and Britain and setting up ethnocentrist business networks to generate great wealth to influence foreign policy to protect the runt state of Israel is fine.”

          Finally,

          “I think that she said something really stupid that goes to the heart of why some Jews think we need and army.”

          I know I’m being presumptuous, and I will understand if you choose not to answer this question, but I seem to recall that you are an American, part Japanese ancestry, living in Boston, hobnobbing with the likes of Boteach. I know that you are also part (perhaps half) Jewish. Do you have Israeli citizenship? How do you reconcile your use of “we” in this quote, “we need an army.” I know you will state that your preface “some Jews believe” does not mean that you believe, but really, does worldwide Jewry need an army? Would you join the global Jewish army? I think that you should inform your Jewish friends who believe that “we” need an army that without the massive support of non-Jews, their army would be pretty skimpy. Additionally, non-Israeli Jews who joined said “Jewish army” would unleash a strong anti-Jewish reaction in the countries in which they live, don’t you think? tokyobk, I think you should make aliyah and join the IDF.

          FPM

        • Krauss
          July 20, 2013, 7:39 pm

          Annie is not a human rights activist because she disagrees with you?

          When did you become a right-wing Zionist, tokyo?

          And by the way, I do agree that her statement about Jews “going home” was ignorant at best, especially since a key reason why many Jews went away from Europe is a tragedy she should be very well familliar with.

          But the vast majority of Israel’s population is not homegrown. It was transplanted there. This is the central dilemma; many people who grew up there were ethnically cleansed, twice, and many Jews who had/have no real connections to the land beyond perhaps their father or in some rare cases a grandfather now believe that they are the sole inheritors of the land.

          Her belief is that the people who were there, Palestinian refugees, should be there. And ethnic colonialists like the Netanyahu family should not be there but “go back” to either Europe or to America where they came from.

          But since she didn’t qualify that statement, it became, essentially, all Jews, even those who were there previously. And at any rate, what happened to the Jews who were ethnically cleansed in 1948? They never got any compensation. Thomas never touched that topic. So that’s why I think the flack she got for the statement was not totally undeserved. But your comments about annie and just generally having a public meltdown is a bit of a disappointment, to put it mildly once again :)

        • Annie Robbins
          July 20, 2013, 7:59 pm

          oleg, i am not a lebanese person of her generation. my circumstances and opinions are not the same as helen thomas’s. and i would not blame a palestinian for sharing her opinion either. again, the circumstances of my life and my opinion are not the same. i have stated many times i think people should all get along and work it out.

          she did not say x because she was suggesting voluntuary x. Great.

          well here’s what isn’t great tokyobk, twisting someones opinion conflating they are calling for “mass ethnic expulsions”. gee, even the msm never claimed that about her. and she wasn’t “suggesting voluntuary x” she was stating her opinion. her opinion, which i am sure is shared by many people of her generation, is really not that different than jews who think palestinians should all go to jordan. this is an opinion shared by many members of israel’s knesset. but contrary to a person like helen thomas, they obviously have no problem w/mass expulsions because they are in the process of expelling people from their land right now. link to mondoweiss.net

          i know what you’re up to, you don’t fool me for one second. you’re just itching to make the israel’s ethnic cleansing seem somehow normal, sort of a “both sides do it”. #HasbaraFail

          and fyi there is a big defference between saying ‘i think palestinians should go tojordan’ and saying i advocate forces expulsions. big dif, whether you care to acknowledge it or not.

          good bye.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 8:10 pm

          Jews who think Palestinians should “go back to Jordan” are bigots.
          You have no idea what I am up to at all. And yes, suggesting it is endorsing it in that case too.

          “i know what you’re up to, you don’t fool me for one second. you’re just itching to make the israel’s ethnic cleansing seem somehow normal. it isn’t.”

          The ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the ongoing incursions against, for example, the Beduins is a historic evil. Nothing short. So you don’t know what I am up to apparently. What I am up to is stating that saying Jews should leave Palestine is racism and expulsion advocacy is sick.

          And those who stand on the side of it in the case of the Jews while arguing the Palestinian cause in universal terms are hypocrites.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 8:27 pm

          Krauss Not because she disagrees with me but because she parses that which she would call out as such if they were said in defense of Zionism.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 8:30 pm

          Frankie P, your memory of me is a tad distorted. I won’t bore people by correcting you with my background.

          But in short, I meant we Jews. I am Jewish. I am not Israeli and I have no interest in Aliyah, the IDF or Jewish nationalism.
          I think Helen Thomas made a stupid comment which gets at the heart off why some Jews think we Jews will always be considered aliens and why we Jews need an army.

        • Cliff
          July 20, 2013, 9:37 pm

          I agree with tokyobk here.

          Arguing that Jews should stay out of Palestine due to their Jewishness (the sentiment arising vis a vis ‘the Jewish State’ and Zionism and the history of the conflict) is ‘understandable’ (I see why people feel emotional about this, but disagree as a matter of principle) but wrong (morally; which is all that matters).

          In principle, Jews like any other group should be allowed to live anywhere. We should all be allowed to.

          But immigration politics and economics and national identity matter too.

          So does righting historical wrongs (that are both ‘historical’ and ongoing).

          Jews and Palestinians (more Palestinian than Jews) are the people of the land. Self-determination belongs to ‘them’ (the people of the land; not religions in and of themselves).

          As for the illegal Jewish colonies and their colonists though? That is a criminal enterprise and justice comes first before a decontextualized ‘concern’ for cultural sensitivity.

          In the case of the settlements, those settlers are there by force with the express interest in robbing the indigenous population.

        • tree
          July 20, 2013, 11:15 pm

          I think Helen Thomas made a stupid comment which gets at the heart off why some Jews think we Jews will always be considered aliens and why we Jews need an army.

          Are you really that obtuse to think that the IDF is your “Jewish army”? Is this just “we Jews need an army”, or does it apply to all minorities? You are part black. Do blacks “need an army” too? Do you have any clue how counterproductive it would be to minority rights to have an ethnic army?

          As for having an army being some kind of panacea for the ills of minority status, check out the dead POW’s at Katyn Forest, killed specifically by Stalin because they were a Polish army and Stalin coveted Poland. Or look at how much “good” the German army did for Germany under Hitler. Killed millions of people and in the end it ruined Germany and severely endangered Germans as well. Today, the IDF is sowing hatred of Jews everywhere it goes, and only American largess and protection keeps Israel from economic and cultural doom, brought about by its own bigoted belief in its ethnic superiority.

        • Taxi
          July 21, 2013, 12:23 am

          oleg,

          Helen Thomas (R.I.P), was referring to Russian colonialist like YOU!

          “Get the hell out of Palestine”! Should be hollered out to you and your type everyday and night – because your choice of ‘religious lifestyle’ is causing war after war, death after death, misery after misery, to millions of people, every hour of every day.

          So put your idf gun away, take off your jackboot, and get the hell out voluntarily – or face the eventual dire consequences.

        • Annie Robbins
          July 21, 2013, 1:29 am

          And those who stand on the side of it in the case of the Jews while arguing the Palestinian cause in universal terms are hypocrites. ..and expulsion advocacy is sick.

          you clearly do not get it. thomas never advocate for expulsion, EVER, so stop w/the rhetorical strawmanning

          meanwhile israel is a colonialist ethnic national state. so evicting/expelling colonialists (NOT THAT SHE ADVOCATED IT, because she didn’t!) is not racist anymore than wanting the french out of algeria was racist or native americans lamenting their own genocide or us on their land is racist. they are not disliked because they are jewish, they are disliked because they have a colonialist racist zionist state w/an racist ethnic colonialist agenda. rejecting a racist ethnic colonialist agenda is not racist, it is the opposite of racist. transforming that into ‘jews’ is not something thomas did, it was something the interviewer did in his framing. and thomas, at 92 yrs old, answered in the affirmative and you are pursuing a completely transparent smear campaign on behalf of racists ethnic colonizers in the guise of protecting ‘jewish’.

          albeit, yes there are lots of innocents there (in israel, and some very good people), and i do not advocate a resolution calling for their expulsion, i advocate mental and civic transformation. but you are barking up the wrong tree calling me a hypocrite. at least, i was raised with some decency. you on the other hand have no problem coming into an obituary and slandering a brilliant courageous woman who forged journalistic pathways for truth on the pretext of being ‘moral’ for what purpose i have no idea.

          and by all means comprehend whatever respect i ever may have had for you in the past or presumption of integrity has completely dissolved.

        • Denis
          July 21, 2013, 1:36 am

          “The Jews who live and were born in historic Palestine are home”

          What’s the huff about? When she says they should go back to wherever the hell they came from, if they came from Palestine, and they’re still in Palestine, then they’re cool. She was talking about the Cossacks. They should all go back to Siberia and the whole ME problem would be solved.

          I never paid much attention to the lady before the “go the hell back to” comment. After that I put a pin up of her on my fridge.

          Danny Thomas was Lebanese, too. Wonder if they were related. She looks like Danny Thomas. . .

          RIP, Helen. You deserve to. The next generation won’t ever know who you were, but many of our generation will remember you for decades.

        • Annie Robbins
          July 21, 2013, 2:13 am

          I agree with tokyobk here.

          Arguing that Jews should stay out of Palestine due to their Jewishness (the sentiment arising vis a vis ‘the Jewish State’ and Zionism and the history of the conflict) is ‘understandable’ (I see why people feel emotional about this, but disagree as a matter of principle) but wrong (morally; which is all that matters).

          In principle, Jews like any other group should be allowed to live anywhere. We should all be allowed to.

          eliminating your parenthesis:

          Arguing that Jews should stay out of Palestine due to their Jewishness ..is ‘understandable’ ..but wrong.

          thomas never made that argument. tokyobk’s argument is a strawman. it’s a presumption used to smear thomas.

        • tree
          July 21, 2013, 2:21 am

          In case anyone is interested in Thomas’ explanation of her off the cuff remark, here is a link to her complete Playboy interview on the subject.

          link to veteranstoday.com

          Here’s a portion of it:

          THOMAS: No. Every columnist and commentator jumped on me immediately as anti-Semitic. Nobody asked me to explain myself. Nobody said, “What did you really mean?”
          PLAYBOY: What did you really mean?
          THOMAS: Well, there’s no understanding of the Palestinians at all. I mean, they’re living there and these people want to come and take their homes and land and water and kill their children and kill them. How many are still under arrest in Israel—never been charged, never been tried, never been convicted? Thousands. Why? Meanwhile, we keep giving Israel everything. Our government bribes the Israelis by saying, “Please come to the [negotiating] table and we’ll give you this and we’ll give you that.” Obama’s last offer to the Israelis was $22 billion in new fighter planes [Editor’s note: The offer was actually just under $3 billion], a veto at the UN for anything pro-Arab or pro-Palestinian and a three-month freeze on the colonization and settlers. I mean, what is this? They gave away the store, just as Reagan and every other president did. Why do you have to bribe people to do the right thing? I don’t want my government bribing anybody. I want them demanding. Stop all this aid to Israel when they’re killing people!
          PLAYBOY: It was your follow-up comment, when you said the Jews should go back to Poland, Germany and America, that really infuriated people.
          THOMAS: Well, that immediately evoked the concentration camps. What I meant was they should stay where they are because they’re not being persecuted—not since World War II, not since 1945. If they were, we sure would hear about it. Instead, they initiated the Jackson-Vanik law, which said the U.S. would not trade with Russia unless it allowed unlimited Jewish emigration. But it was not immigration to the United States, which would have been fine with me. It was to go to Palestine and uproot these people, throw them out of their homes, which they have done through several wars. That’s not fair. I want people to understand why the Palestinians are upset. They are incarcerated and living in an open prison. I say to the Israelis, “Get out of people’s homes!” It’s unacceptable to have soldiers knocking on a door at three in the morning and saying, “This is my home.” And forcing people out of homes they’ve lived in for centuries? What is this? How can anybody accept it? I mean, Jewish-only roads? Would anyone tolerate something like that in America? White-only roads?

          PLAYBOY: You mean Israeli-only roads, not Jewish only, right? [Editor’s note: Israel closes certain roads to Palestinians, but roads are open to all Israeli citizens and to other nationals, regardless of religious background.]
          THOMAS: Israeli-only roads, okay. But it’s more than semantics because the Palestinians are deprived of owning these roads. This is their land. I’m sorry, but we’re talking about foreigners who came and said, “God gave this land to us.” [Former Israeli prime minister ­Yitzhak] Rabin said, “Where’s the deed?” I mean, come on! Do you know that an Arab Palestinian trying to go home to see his mother has to go through 10 checkpoints and then is held there, while an American tourist can go through right like that? The Palestinian people have to carry their kids to hospitals and are not allowed to drive cars and so forth. What is this? No American Jew would tolerate that sort of treatment here against blacks or anyone else. Why do they allow it over there? And why do they send my American tax dollars to perpetuate it?

          I see no rational quibble with her explanation. Does tokyoBK or yonah have one?

        • Annie Robbins
          July 21, 2013, 3:10 am

          The next generation won’t ever know who you were

          don’t count on it. the woman is a legend. this is one battle the hasbrats will LOOSE.

        • Hostage
          July 21, 2013, 5:05 am

          In principle, Jews like any other group should be allowed to live anywhere. We should all be allowed to.

          That’s a problem because the lifestyle the immigrants demand requires others to give up their water and land. Why exactly are Palestinians supposed to pioneer this weird idea that immigrants can just invite themselves and take over practically non-existent resources?

        • Cliff
          July 21, 2013, 5:28 am

          The Palestinians shouldn’t have to.

          I’m just saying in an ideal situation, the Palestinians would be treated as equals with the Jews of Israel.

          They would have their right of return and in this bi-national State, Jews would be able to live anywhere and Palestinians would be able to live anywhere.

        • OlegR
          July 21, 2013, 5:44 am

          Good call tokyobk.

        • Walid
          July 21, 2013, 8:10 am

          ” Danny Thomas was Lebanese, too. Wonder if they were related.”

          Denis, not related; both were born in the US of Lebanese immigrant parents and both had surnames that were borrowed. Dany Thomas was the stage name for Amos Muzyad Yakhoob Kairouz and Helen Thomas’ parents’ actual family name was Antonious but anglicized to “Thomas” at their arrival on Ellis Island.

        • ahmed
          July 21, 2013, 11:01 am

          The only people who really argue that Jews can and should live in a certain place are the Zionists, who believe all Jews should live in Israel.
          Helen Thomas didn’t say Jews in America, South America, Europe should leave and go somewhere. She was talking about people who migrated and usurped another people’s land. Nothing more.

        • just
          July 21, 2013, 4:58 pm

          Then we need to teach them of her and her legacy will live on and on and on.

          She may be gone from this earth, but she won’t be forgotten.

      • American
        July 20, 2013, 6:30 pm

        @ tokyobk

        1) I dont consider it racist if directed at the illegal Israeli Jews in the occupied settlements—- and not totally racist even if directed at Israel considering their refusal to repatriate the Palestines driven out in 1948 and return their property.
        2) My ‘agenda’ is:
        A) To see the US zionist and Israel completely removed from the US government
        B) To see justice for a people occupied and oppressed by a nazi like agenda for 65 years.
        3) I am certain that the Zionist can increase the sense of persecution in Jews thru helpers like you without any imput from outsiders like me.

        • tokyobk
          July 20, 2013, 8:23 pm

          Yes, if HT had said Israeli’s should get out of the WB or if she delineated Palestine as such I would not complain either.

          My point is about her invoking what in my opinion is worse than blood libel, that Jews don’t belong there.

          Its not “Holocaust Mongering” as was said by someone to feel especially prickly about Germany and Poland.

          I believe the reactions at the time by Maeda Benjamin and JVP were in part because no Jew connected to Jewish history can hear that kind of thing without feeling some pang.

      • Citizen
        July 20, 2013, 7:19 pm

        According to the Jewish Virtual Library, as of April, 2013
        4.3 million (73%) of the total Jewish population are “Sabras” – born in Israel – compared with just a 35% native-born population at Israel’s independence in 1948 (So why did they get over 50% of the land via the UN partition, which was never rubber-stamped by the UN SC? How fair is that?). 38.6% of the Jewish population are Israeli-born to at least one parent who was also Israeli-born.

        Those of European and American ancestry make up about 2.2 million (36%) of the Jewish population while Africans fill out another 14.5% and Asians are 11.2%.

      • pjdude
        July 20, 2013, 10:40 pm

        except they never said that the jews should go back to palestine. but hey why should you pro Israel people start bothering with the truth now.

        • yonah fredman
          July 20, 2013, 11:42 pm

          pjdude- Do some research. After World War I it was a common cry of nonJews against Jews in Poland, “Go to Palestine”.

        • yonah fredman
          July 21, 2013, 1:10 am

          pjdude- a quick surf of the net revealed nothing that would support what I have heard from a Jew who lived in Poland between the wars and recently also read in “The Brothers Ashkenazy” by I.J. Singer (a realistic novel that includes journalistic reporting about the period that included post WWI.)

        • tree
          July 21, 2013, 1:29 am

          After World War I it was a common cry of nonJews against Jews in Poland, “Go to Palestine”.

          …of course that was due to the efforts of the Zionist organizations in Poland to insist that Jews did not belong in Europe, but in Palestine. Its kind of perverted how they could claim that Jews belong in Palestine, and then blame non-Jews for taking them at their word.

        • Hostage
          July 21, 2013, 5:20 am

          pjdude- Do some research. After World War I it was a common cry of nonJews against Jews in Poland, “Go to Palestine”.

          Why don’t you guys do some research for a change and read the: Universal Declaration of Human Rights; International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (167 state parties); and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (160 state parties)? You know, it isn’t 1920 or 1939 anymore. So why don’t you stop wishing that it were?

        • pjdude
          July 21, 2013, 11:19 am

          did couldn’t find anything. maybe a quick search of the usual anti-polish zionist sites blaming the holocaust on occupied poland may have something but a quick google search comes up with nada.

        • yonah fredman
          July 21, 2013, 12:22 pm

          tree writes “of course that was due to the efforts of the Zionist organizations in Poland to insist that Jews did not belong in Europe, but in Palestine.”

          There was hatred of Jews in Poland. Some of those Poles who hated Jews, voiced their hatred using Zionist motifs. Or are you saying that there was no hatred of Jews in Poland until the Zionists introduced it. Which would make you stupid or sick.

        • yonah fredman
          July 21, 2013, 3:23 pm

          pjdude- read “the brothers ashkenazy” by i.j. singer.

        • yonah fredman
          July 21, 2013, 3:44 pm

          pjdude- believe it or not. not all info is available on line, certainly not at a cursory glance. some info requires going to the library and doing actual research. do you accept i.j. singer as a viable credible source?

        • tree
          July 21, 2013, 4:23 pm

          No, I wasn’t saying there was no hatred of Jews in Poland. There was, and there was also hatred of Poles by some Jews in Poland. The Jews were a distinct minority there and so they got the worst of it. My point was that the Zionist Jews in Europe trumpeted the same anti-semitic crap that Jews were parasitic in Europe and belonged elsewhere, thus giving sustenance to the very same prejudices that European anti-semites had. They weren’t concerned with “saving Jews” unless they considered those Jews useful to the Zionist project, the rest were, in their own words, “human dust” and not “good human material”. I see no reason to excuse early Zionists from the same condemnation of anti-semitism simply because they were Jews.

        • pjdude
          July 21, 2013, 8:55 pm

          I don’t usually considering people writing works of fiction even historical fiction as credible sources of history no matter how well researched.

  2. Erasmus
    July 20, 2013, 2:40 pm

    Helen Thomas,

    a grand lady with courage and backbone.
    we have to mourn her demise – and be grateful we had her.
    Journalists of her qualities one cannot find too many in the trade,
    where opportunism and small career worries rule –
    next to the scissors in the head.

  3. Justpassingby
    July 20, 2013, 2:41 pm

    No :(

    Rest in Peace you brave lady.

  4. Citizen
    July 20, 2013, 3:16 pm

    I greatly admired her. One slip of her tongue while she was on break and suddenly had a mike stuck in her face by a roaming Zionist Rabbi, who didn’t stick around to ask her what she meant, and she was toast, despite being head of the US WH press corp over a period extending over so many US regimes. She spoke truth to US high power for decades, reported it. Yet got taken out by an amateur Zionist rabbi in a few seconds. Naw, there’s no Israel Lobby, and if there is, it’s just like the Gun and AARP lobbies. Yeah, right.

    • Justpassingby
      July 20, 2013, 4:19 pm

      Was it really a “slip of her tongue”?

      • W.Jones
        July 20, 2013, 4:45 pm

        That’s practically what she said- if you watch the movie you can tell she was being baited. (eg. “any better comments?”)

  5. American
    July 20, 2013, 3:57 pm

    Good points on Thomas career here:

    link to latimes.com

  6. Balfour
    July 20, 2013, 4:44 pm

    “Thomas took her profession to task in a 2006 book. After Sept. 11, reporters “were afraid to challenge the government, were afraid to be seen as un-American, unpatriotic, and as a consequence, they really let the country down,” she said in an August 2007 interview on CNN.”

    -LA Times Obituary

    What she said about press coverage on Iraq also holds true for American press coverage on Israel: ultimately, Helen Thomas will get the last, if posthumous, laugh.

  7. Stephen Shenfield
    July 20, 2013, 6:05 pm

    The feasibility of Israeli Jews “going back” to their countries of origin (or their parents’ or grandparents’ countries of origin) needs to be studied carefully for each specific country. It depends on the current conditions in each country, whether its government is willing to facilitate the resettlement, etc. For some countries it would be very easy, for others very difficult (Iraq?).

    Regarding Poland, I suspect Helen Thomas was simply unaware of the historical background — not only was Poland the main site of the Holocaust, but those Jewish survivors who did try to return after 1945 were met by great hostility and in a few places pogroms. That does not rule out a new Jewish settlement in Poland, but her remark was a little insensitive in this context.

    Of course, she fell into a trap prepared for her in advance. I think she should have acknowledged that her remarks were simplistic and not as well considered as they might have been, but that was no reason to resign. Journalists make simplistic, poorly considered remarks all the time. Many say things incomparably worse without having a ton of bricks thrown at them and being pressed to resign.

    • Citizen
      July 20, 2013, 7:45 pm

      I don’t disagree with you, but imagine any professional journalist, what they might say if caught off guard? She went with her gut at the questions asked, and she was given no time to clarity or follow up with her context before it went public. It was a classic set up, and she fell for it. Unlike her adversaries, she had nobody in her corner on the issue in question, whereas, when an Israel Firster get nabbed in an off-duty Gotcha Question, a whole army of pundits “explain” it away. Can anybody point me to any evidence anybody in the mainstream media defended her, despite her huge legacy as a truth-seeker in the Washington press corp?

      • Rusty Pipes
        July 20, 2013, 9:24 pm

        Exactly! An 89-year-old woman was set up by a right-wing Jewish blogger who accosted her with a videocamera as she was coming out of a different event. The blogger kept using the terms “Israel” and “the Jews” interchangably. She clearly was talking about the occupation of Palestine (as more and more settlers are nibbling away at it every day). Right Wing Christian Zionists who have made far worse statements about Jews have been granted quick absolution by the Israel Lobby if they kiss Foxman’s ring. Thomas had been a target for years — the Israel Lobby finally found someone to trip her up, rip her words out of context and end her career of embarassing countless Presidents with tough questions. Today’s NPR profile, while noting highpoints of her distinguished career, made it sound as though Thomas had attended an event celebrating Israel and volunteered anti-Semitic remarks about “The Jews.”

        Does anyone have a link to the full youtube clip with the Right-wing Rabbi?

        • W.Jones
          July 20, 2013, 9:35 pm

          Rusty, Good analysis. The clip you requested confirmed what you said:
          link to youtube.com
          RIP

        • ritzl
          July 21, 2013, 3:16 am

          Thanks Rusty and W.Jones for the analysis and video.

    • Ellen
      July 20, 2013, 7:52 pm

      Stephen, I think it was you or another who came on this site saying that Jews who returned to Poland after 1945 were met with Pogroms. Where? And could you cite sources for this history?

      This is the first time I read or hear of this (or actually the second time as this was stated before on this site.).

      And yes, an elderly woman fell into a trap that was set specifically for her. She made careless comments that were easily worked up into something beyond her words. Why were they gunning for her? And why was she banished?

      • Stephen Shenfield
        July 20, 2013, 8:46 pm

        There are Wikipedia articles on “the Kielce Pogrom of July 1946″ and more broadly on “anti-Jewish violence in Poland, 1944-1946.” A Google search gave a variety of sources, including an analysis by the Bishop of Czestochowa.

        On Amazon I found two books on the Kielce pogrom, one in Polish and the other in English: Reflections on the Kielce Pogrom, edited by Lukas Kaminski and Jan Zaryn.

        • W.Jones
          July 20, 2013, 9:21 pm

          Kielce pogrom = 1 event
          Organizers of the kielce pogrom were tried and IIRC shot.

          Poland has Holocaust memorials and was one of the countries that did not have a Nazi collaborationist government.

        • OlegR
          July 21, 2013, 5:59 am

          /Poland has Holocaust memorials/

          That’s great that they have memorials , really puts my mind at ease.

          /and was one of the countries that did not have a Nazi collaborationist government./
          That’s cause the Nazis didn’t bother setting it up in the east.
          They just ruled directly and boy did they have plenty collaborators
          in Poland.(opposition too for sure) but regarding Jews nobody really cared
          not in any significant numbers.

        • OlegR
          July 21, 2013, 6:00 am

          Kielce pogrom = 1 event

          How many should they have had in order for the surviving Jews to take a hint.

      • miriam6
        July 20, 2013, 9:54 pm

        The Kielce Pogrom:
        A Blood Libel Massacre of Holocaust Survivors
        The term “Kielce Pogrom” refers to a violent massacre of Jews in the southeastern Polish town of Kielce on July 4,

        While the pogrom was not an isolated instance of anti-Jewish violence in postwar Poland, the Kielce massacre convinced many Polish Jews that they had no future in Poland after the Holocaust and spurred them to flee the country.
        Coming just one year after the end of World War II, the massacre shocked people around the world…cont.

        link to ushmm.org

        link to ushmm.org


        Some Jews were, in fact, murdered by mobs when they tried to return to Poland.

        link to holocausthistory.org

        link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org

        riots broke out in several Polish cities and hundreds of Jews were murdered in anti-Jewish violence (see: Anti-Jewish violence in Poland, 1944-1946).
        The best-known case is the Kielce pogrom of 1946,[172] in which thirty-seven Jews were brutally murdered.
        Kielce antisemitic riot, amidst the raging civil war in postwar Poland,[173] discouraged many survivors from rebuilding their lives there and convinced them to emigrate.

        link to en.wikipedia.org

        link to en.wikipedia.org

        link to history.ucsb.edu.

    • pjdude
      July 20, 2013, 10:50 pm

      jews got screwed in poland post war. in poland jews were viewed as pro communism which at the time was viewed as the same as pro russian. being viewed as pro russian in poland since 1939 doesn’t exactly endear one to the polish people for reason I’m sure are obvious. not that it excuses the reactions but people tend not to react well to people viewed as helping an enemy try to eradicate them.

      • Stephen Shenfield
        July 21, 2013, 12:46 pm

        Right away — attempts to minimize and excuse anti-Jewish violence, all based on ignorant stereotypes.

        As the Wikipedia article on anti-Jewish violence in Poland in 1944-46 describes, such violence occurred in many places, not just Kielce. In most places the perpetrators were not punished. The violence began as soon as Soviet troops arrived, before the communist regime was set up, so it cannot be attributed solely to the association of Jews with the secret police etc., although later that became a factor. The first attacks were sparked by rumors that drew on the age-old blood libel.

        On another aspect relevant to this website. Some of the Polish communists of Jewish origin had the idea of creating an autonomous Jewish region in Silesia in the southwest of the new Polish state and settling Jewish refugees there. This was technically possible because Poland had been moved to the west, losing territory in the east but gaining territory in the west much of which was now largely depopulated following ethnic cleansing of the former German inhabitants. The rejection of the idea (Poles displaced from the east were settled in the new territories instead) shows how limited the clout of the Polish-Jewish communists really was. If they had really been as influential as the anti-Semites imagined, there would probably be some kind of independent Jewish state in the middle of Europe today and no State of Israel in the Middle East.

        • yrn
          July 21, 2013, 1:23 pm

          “Right away — attempts to minimize and excuse anti-Jewish violence, all based on ignorant stereotypes.”
          this is the rational of post Zionist sites, as exploring Jewish hate, is bad.
          The basic of Post Zionism is to claim that Anti-Jewish had a reason, sometime because the Jews were communist, or liberal or national, you name it, but never because they were Jews.
          As if there is not hate for the Jews, who needs Zionism.

        • American
          July 21, 2013, 3:50 pm

          ‘The basic of Post Zionism is to claim that Anti-Jewish had a reason, sometime because the Jews were communist, or liberal or national, you name it, but never because they were Jews.’…yrn

          More misrepresentation.

          The innocent victims cult claims that all events effecting jews were ALWAYS just because they were jews.
          Real history says it WASNT ALWAYS just because they were jews.
          Big difference there.

        • Hostage
          July 21, 2013, 7:29 pm

          The basic of Post Zionism is to claim that Anti-Jewish had a reason, sometime because the Jews were communist, or liberal or national, you name it, but never because they were Jews.

          Not true, several of us here have pointed out that some streams of Judaism taught racist doctrines. It’s a favorite pastime of the bigoted ultra-Orthodox, Hasidim, and national religious lame-brains in Israel to claim that the Reform or Conservative Jews are “another people” who brought the Holocaust on the Jews.

          Some of us secular Jews here have pointed out that anti-Gentile orthodox Jewish religious literature, like the Torat HaMelech is hardly unique and a much more likely cause of friction with neighboring Gentiles. There are plenty of earlier Jewish or kabbalistic religious works, like The Tanya, which instructed the Jewish faithful of central and eastern Europe that Gentiles are sub-human Shells” or “Husks”, created from irredeemably evil stuff, or an inherently threatening lower race. All of that was done as if these were fundamental Jewish theological religious beliefs or truths that had been derived from the scriptures by various Jewish sages.

          The hilltop youth who want to drive Gentiles from the Land of Israel and claim that God has commanded them to conqueror it through genocide, if necessary, are not a recent aberration. Many of their Zionist brethren of the first Aliyah era got off the boat in Palestine spouting that centuries-old racist theological mumbo jumbo.

        • pjdude
          July 21, 2013, 8:57 pm

          um please keep your own bigotry in check. I believe I said whatever the reason it didn’t excuse their actions.

        • yrn
          July 22, 2013, 3:29 am

          So what’s your point here.
          Did I ever said that Jews are Angel’s or there never have been and there are still some sick fanatic stream’s.
          So…. as you mention, the long history of butchering Jews can be justified by those sick fanatic writings that some fanatic Jews elaborated.
          You represent the typical persona, for you its’ bad to explore the real motive for Jew Hating, for you there is no Jew Hate per-se, as all your Anti Zionist concept is breaking down, you cannot afford it .
          I bet you teach your kids, that there are NO Jews Haters, it’s just a Zionist Myth.
          Why were Jews persecuted Hundred of years. give me the reason.
          Is it because “some streams of Judaism taught racist doctrines. “

        • mijj
          July 22, 2013, 6:34 am

          > “I bet you teach your kids, that there are NO Jews Haters, it’s just a Zionist Myth.”

          Why would you teach your kids that there are Jew Haters? Why would you teach your kids there are no Jew Haters? Why is “Jew Haters” the axis of your existence? Why would you indoctrinate your kids with a view of the world where they should consider themselves to be at the center of hate? Does it serve some useful purpose? Is the feeling of being universally hated so useful that it needs to be propagated down the generations?

          Do Pakistanis sit their kids down and teach their kids there are Pakistani Haters? Do Hindus? Do Americans? English? Germans? French? Italians? Inuit? Apache?

          What a damned evil self-fulfilling curse to put into the mind of a child. Presumably, the curse will last the rest of that person’s life and color all his/her thoughts, emotions and actions.

        • Hostage
          July 22, 2013, 6:35 am

          Did I ever said that Jews are Angel’s or there never have been and there are still some sick fanatic stream’s.

          I put my reply under this italicized extract of your comment The basic of Post Zionism is to claim that Anti-Jewish had a reason, sometime because the Jews were communist, or liberal or national, you name it, but never because they were Jews.

          I pointed out that the Orthodox Jews themselves have blamed the Holocaust on the Reformed and Conservative movements, precisely on the basis you denied. I myself noted that they are an aberration, but there are several million of them, nonetheless.

        • Hostage
          July 22, 2013, 7:08 am

          You represent the typical persona, for you its’ bad to explore the real motive for Jew Hating, for you there is no Jew Hate per-se, as all your Anti Zionist concept is breaking down, you cannot afford it .

          No, I was just pointing out that your proposition contained a major fallacy and as result, so do your conclusions.

          I bet you teach your kids, that there are NO Jews Haters, it’s just a Zionist Myth.
          Why were Jews persecuted Hundred of years. give me the reason.
          Is it because “some streams of Judaism taught racist doctrines. “

          I teach my kids that Zionism is the manifestation of a personality disorder. Jews themselves admit that they came under persecution because of the contents of the Talmud, Lurianic Kabbalah, & etc. In many cases, those ancient texts were censored by unfriendly Gentile authorities who felt, with more than a little justification, that portions were racist, disrespectful, and aimed in their particular direction.

          Jews were persecuted like many other groups – and for exactly the same reasons that they have persecuted others: religious differences, racism, and xenophobia. None of those have ever provided an adequate justification or basis for committing crimes against others, including wars of aggression or persecution.

        • yrn
          July 22, 2013, 9:00 am

          “and for exactly the same reasons that they have persecuted others:”
          Teach me some history………….
          since 100 BC when exactly did the Jews persecuted others.

        • yrn
          July 22, 2013, 9:21 am

          Jews like you admit that there is NO Jew hate per-se, meaning The Talmud, Lurianic Kabbalah, & etc. are responsible for hating the Jews.
          According to your rational, All the persecutions of the Jews in those 2000 years, were always due to “those ancient texts”.

          “I pointed out that the Orthodox Jews themselves have blamed the Holocaust on the Reformed and Conservative movements, ”
          There some loony Orthodox that think so, but this is their sick point of view regarding punishment.
          But why did those who committed the killing, just killed the Jews ?
          what is the connection to those Sick Orthodox ?
          Or do you explain to your children, that those who killed the Jews in the last 2000 years, did it as a “messengers” of those Orthodox.

        • seanmcbride
          July 22, 2013, 10:58 am

          yrn,

          The real question you should be asking: what are the root causes of all ethnic, racial, religious and national conflicts?

          Have you thought much about that?

          The ethnocentric approach to this problem is part of the problem.

        • Obsidian
          July 22, 2013, 11:10 am

          @Hostage

          “The souls of the nations of idol-worshippers are from the other, the impure ‘shells’ which contain no good at all”, as stated in Etz Chaim 49:3.

          The passage speaks of idol-worshippers devoid of revealed religion. Elsewhere the author of the Tanya makes it quite clear that the “pious of the nations” (gentiles who follow the moral dictates of the Noachide Code) are excluded from the definition of idol-worshippers.

        • American
          July 22, 2013, 12:14 pm

          “”I teach my kids that Zionism is the manifestation of a personality disorder. “…Hostage

          I agree, it is. Jacquline Rose in an intervew about her book, The Question of Zion described it as that.
          It has allure for certain kinds of people.
          We see the various personality types here….those who want to ‘enhance themselves’ and be considered special ‘people’ as a member of some chosen or superior group….. others that want to be treated with”special consideration” they have no other way to get except by claiming Jewish membership in the innocent ‘victims’ of the world….others who think zionism imbues or affilates them with some ‘big power’ they dont have as individuals.
          Very unhealthy group.

        • Annie Robbins
          July 23, 2013, 1:43 pm

          Jews like you admit that there is NO Jew hate per-se

          yrn, repetition won’t make this true. it seems as tho you are not able to make your point without making allegations you cannot substantiate. and why the ‘jews like you’ rhetoric. racism and prejudice is wrong and of course there is irrational hatred in this world.

        • Cliff
          July 23, 2013, 2:01 pm

          Exactly. The people who oppose Zionism are individualists. Zionists are cultists.

        • tree
          July 23, 2013, 2:34 pm

          But why did those who committed the killing, just killed the Jews ?

          They DIDN’T just kill Jews. They killed Slavs , Ukrainians, Russians, etc. by the millions. Try reading Snyder’s “Bloodlands”. The first explicit Nazi plan for the East was the genocide of the Slavic peoples. The Nazis simply didn’t have the manpower or capability to carry it out. Jews were a small group in comparison, so it was easier to single them our and kill them, but that didn’t prevent them from killing millions of others, mostly civilians, in horrendous atrocities.

        • miriam6
          July 23, 2013, 7:07 pm

          Hostage teaches his kids , in an entirely apolitical manner that Zionism is a personality disorder.

          If that is true, he is selling his offspring short on real SERIOUS explanation and exploration of humanity’s attempts through ideology to improve life, or in the case of the Jews , to have to find SOME way to defend themselves against the spectre of anti – Semitism, a spectre, that Leon Trotsky , on observing the early days and actions of the German Nazi Party correctly predicted would become genocidal.

          Again, a failure to remember Zionism grew out of a very REAL predicament European Jewish people faced.

          It’s oh so fashionable in these supposedly post -modern , apolitical times to degrade the meaning of important ideological movements that humans have developed to combat prejudice against their own kind , to better their lot in life.

          Zionism was just ONE of the responses Jewish people had to the prejudice , and precarious predicament Europe’s Jews faced in Europe , not , in Hostage’s insulting way of putting things , analogous to the outworking of some imaginary psychological
          state.

          If combatting anti-Semitism had been a priority in the pre-war years, if the European Left had actually taken the matter SERIOUSLY in the first place or had developed the means to combat anti – Semitism -history might have been different.

          Perhaps if combatting anti-Semitism had been as Fashionable as anti Zionism is these days , who knows ,the fate of Europe’s Jews might have been different, and the Palestinians might not have had to pay the price for the European attempt to murder it’s entire Jewish population.

          Unfortunately, there WAS no such movement offering , or with the means or inclination to even take anti-Semitism SERIOUSLY , to combat or eradicate Anti-Semitism.

          Had there been such a progressive, broad- based Leftist movement back then, Zionism may well have been easily discarded , forgotten, and probably would not have survived.

        • Hostage
          July 23, 2013, 7:40 pm

          Teach me some history………….
          since 100 BC when exactly did the Jews persecuted others.

          Gladly. You implicitly admit that Jews routinely persecuted others in their heyday before 100 BC.

          Try reading the articles and comment archives here. The Zionist national project has done little else in Palestine, except perpetrate one scheme after another to dispossess, displace, dominate, and persecute the non-Jewish population ever since the day they arrived in the country.

          In that respect they are just like the crooked Jewish conquerors in the Second Commonwealth era who forced the indigenous Idumean, and Iturean peoples to mutilate their genitals and pay tithes directly into the Temple cult at the point of a sword. See the works of Josephus on the subject and the discussion in Rabbi Michael J. Broyde, The Obligation of Jews to Seek Observance of Noachide Laws by Gentiles: A Theoretical Review link to jlaw.com

        • Hostage
          July 23, 2013, 8:48 pm

          The passage speaks of idol-worshippers devoid of revealed religion.

          Correct, but all the Jewish sages and the author of HaTanya consider Christians who worship a Triune God to be idolators that are worthy of death, else why not convert and join them for the sake of peace? So your point is moot when it comes to the religious emnity Jews routinely expressed in their literature for the beliefs of the Christian Gentiles of central and eastern Europe.

          I also believe that you are citing commentaries written by Rabbi Hillel Malisov and Rabbi Yosef Wineberg, which do not logically follow from and are not part of the original text of The Tanya of Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liadi. For example, you can compare the text of Chapter 1 of the Tanya regarding the sinful nature of the souls of the nations with Rabbi Wineberg’s “elicidations” and see that it is only the latter who mentions “the pious of the nations” and claims that in these very rare cases they have souls derived from kelipat nogah. Even then he is citing a work by Rabbi Malisov, that is not part of the Tanya by Rabbi Zalman.

          In any event Jews still possess two souls, and Gentiles only one. The souls are still of two very different types, and the Gentile nations still do not possess the superior souls given to all Jews, i.e. The additional soul revealed on Shabbat is an expression of a higher love for G-d . . . the Additional Soul is not something that comes from outside of a person, but is a revelation from the deepest part of a person’s essence. link to chabad.org

          So please explain this text from the Tanya for all of us:

          From this soul stem also the good characteristics which are to be found in the innate nature of all Israel, such as mercy and benevolence. For in the case of Israel, this soul of the kelipah is derived from kelipat nogah, which also contains good, as it originates in the esoteric “Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.” The souls of the nations of the world, however, emanate from the other, unclean kelipot which contain no good whatever, as is written in Etz Chayim, Portal 49, ch. 3, that all the good that the nations do, is done from selfish motives. So the Gemara comments on the verse, “The kindness of the nations is sin,”— that all the charity and kindness done by the nations of the world is only for their own self-glorification, and so on.

          The second soul of a Jew is truly a part of G-d above, as it is written, “And He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life,” and “Thou didst breathe it [the soul] into me.” And it is written in the Zohar, “He who exhales, exhales from within him,” that is to say, from his inwardness and his innermost, for it is something of his internal and innermost vitality that man emits through exhaling with force.

          So, allegorically speaking, have the souls of Jews risen in the [Divine] thought, as it is written, “My firstborn son is Israel,” and “Ye are children unto the Lord your G-d”.

          link to chabad.org

        • American
          July 23, 2013, 8:55 pm

          yrn says:
          July 22, 2013 at 9:00 am + Show content
          “and for exactly the same reasons that they have persecuted others:”
          Teach me some history………….
          since 100 BC when exactly did the Jews persecuted others.
          >>>>

          humm….remember Mimilla in 614 AD when the Jews slaughtered 66,000 christians they bought from the Persians? and what was Stalin’s Willing Executioners about? And how about those Jews that bombed the King David hotel and Sharon’s slaughter in Beirut. How about that Irgurn and Stern gang in Britian that sent bombs to UK politicians and the JDL here in the US that bombed and killed people? And we wont even talked about Palestine.

          But I want to ask you something that I have asked you zionist a dozen times and none of you ever answer me….. and it is …how crazy do you have to be to beleive that there exist some certain group of humans on earth that have been totally innocent of everything in all ways, never transgressed against anyone else, since time began, never harmed anyone and were always persecuted for no reason?
          That is plain insane and no person of even average intelligence would believe there exist any such special group of humans on earth.
          Do you actually believe this about Jews or do you just promote it for your purposes ?

        • Hostage
          July 23, 2013, 9:10 pm

          But why did those who committed the killing, just killed the Jews ?
          what is the connection to those Sick Orthodox ?
          Or do you explain to your children, that those who killed the Jews in the last 2000 years, did it as a “messengers” of those Orthodox.

          No I also teach my children that the leaders of the Zionist movement, including Hertz, Ben Gurion, and Jabotinsky wrote and preached that the Jews of the Galut were inferior people who produced inferior intellects, “Yids”, that could never lead normal lives, because they were the real cause of anti-Semitism wherever they chose to live among the Gentiles. The Zionist leadership claimed that they could only be normal again by becoming Hebrews in Palestine or somewhere else if they could either be separated from other races or given the rule over others, like the Gentile empires of the day.

          I’ve also pointed out to my children and grandchildren that the State of Israel gave Aish International a piece of stolen Arab real estate for their headquarters, located directly across from the Western Wall and that they teach that the victims of the Holocaust were reincarnated souls of great sinners who somehow deserved what happened to them. See Holocaust: Reincarnated Souls? link to aish.com

        • seanmcbride
          July 23, 2013, 9:25 pm

          Obsidian,

          How would you expect advanced cultures, like ancient Greek or Rome, or Enlightenment England, France or Germany — cultures of great genius, creativity, sophistication and self-confidence — to respond to the Noachide Laws or Judaism in general — especially to its attitudes and beliefs towards “the nations” — non-Jews and cult outsiders?

        • Hostage
          July 23, 2013, 9:31 pm

          Yrn: But why did those who committed the killing, just killed the Jews ? annie: yrn, repetition won’t make this true.

          Agreed. I’ve respond to the whopper above about a 100 times, but just for the record I’ll point out again that Hitler’s regime killed millions of non-Jews and that some of the more notorious pogroms in Czarist Russia resulted in persecution, but not mass killings.

        • miriam6
          July 23, 2013, 9:48 pm

          Mondoweiss really ought to be re-christened Hostage’s blog…

          His comments appear to just sail through moderation, like the above FOUR comments whilst ,my and other people’s comments languish for days on end in ‘moderation’

        • miriam6
          July 23, 2013, 9:55 pm

          Hostage ;

          This is all just pure anti-Jewish/Judaism ,hateful propaganda you are spewing out.

          C’mon, you don’t think you Islam or a Christianity too, inculcates any less sense of a superiority complex in its believers over those of other religions?

          What do Hostages attacks on Judaism have to do with Helen Thomas and what she ,may or may not have meant/ said in her notorious encounter with that interviewer?

          How do such comments, the sole focus of which is tearing Judaism to pieces, pillorying Judaism have to do with what Helen Thomas said?

          Hostages comment’s surely contravene the policy rules on comments about NOT pillorying Judaism.

        • yrn
          July 24, 2013, 6:11 am

          This is what I thought you will pick.
          So between 100BC till Hitler times……….
          When did the Jews persecuted anybody , that because of those “Jews persecution”, Millions of Jews were killed expelled and tortured.

        • yrn
          July 24, 2013, 6:17 am

          So this is your example and evidence you give to your next generations.
          That some lunatic Jewish organization, represents the Total Jewish Nation.
          And because of those lunatics…… “victims of the Holocaust were reincarnated souls of great sinners ”
          This is your justification and explanation to the punishment of the Jews.

        • yrn
          July 24, 2013, 6:22 am

          Who ever mentioned that Hitler only killed Jews.
          But who else did Hitler killed only because of their Religion belonging, just because they, or their last generations were born to a certain religion.???
          What explanation do you give to your children ?

        • MHughes976
          July 24, 2013, 11:42 am

          There are questions, I suppose, about what amounts to ‘persecution’ and another range of questions about how to interpret and how far to trust our sources.
          I agree about the tacit admission within in the rhetorical question you were answering of a period of persecution before 100 BCE, – the reign of John in particular. His system seems to have involved the forced conversion of those you mentioned, destroying the main Samaritan shrine but not making an all-out attack on Samaritanism, while permitting some cities with a Greek character to maintain their paganism – he liked to be regarded as a faithful Jew of Greek culture. His successors Alexander and Salome seem to have maintained this system: at this point, was it persecution? It was fairly rigorous maintenance of the results of a previous active onslaught on other religions. There were also intra-Jewish problems, with Alexander apparently disciplining and Salome co-opting the nascent Pharisees.
          Then there’s the question of Jewish treatment of primitive Christianity, though here we run into many problems of dating, editorial intervention in earlier texts and general anti-Jewish sentiment among New Testament writers. Not that that makes their testimony manifestly and totally worthless. Room for discussion here.

    • Ellen
      July 21, 2013, 5:09 am

      Stephen, thanks for the reply and info. An event does not equate to “and in a few places pogroms.”

      But all considered, even a single event and a generaly hostile climate would not make Poland a desirable destination for Jews then. No wonder so many left for other shores, including what was declared Israel.

      The hostile climate in Poland at that time projected onto Jews is tragically that of general hostility of nations/a people seen too often — and now in the USA against Muslims everywhere. That is why we have mosque burnings (in MO and TN) and killings. Our modern day pogroms right in the USA.

  8. CloakAndDagger
    July 20, 2013, 7:16 pm

    Another legend passes from our lives and I am reminded again of my own mortality. A blink of an eye and our time on this planet is over. Her life touched the lives of so many and even changed those of whom she challenged. Her presence is gone but not the footprints she left in the sand, and perhaps, even those will one day drift away with the winds of time.

    Can we say the same for our own lives? Did we make a difference to the lives of others with what we did in our brief sojourn, or did we just come, consume, and leave, or worse yet, destroy the lives of others with our words and our actions, and our money and influence?

    When I leave from this existence, I would like to think that I aligned myself more with Annie Robbins, than I did with Abe Foxman or John McCain, and in doing so, imparted more laughter than tears. Therein lies much solace for me.

    Rest in peace, Helen.

  9. irishmoses
    July 20, 2013, 7:21 pm

    She was also the daughter of Lebanese Christian Arabs. Her background, considering the horrors Israel has visited on Lebanon, might justify a bit of excessive anger and vitriol on her part. After all, her comments were directed at Israeli Jews, not all Jews. But nothing, not her advanced age, nor her distinguished record, was enough to avoid branding her with the dreaded A word on her forehead.

    I find it interesting that Anthony Weiner and Eliot Spitzer, both guilty of far more reprehensible conduct, have been given a pass and rebirth into high public office. Why are they treated differently?

    It’s too late now for Helen, but what about Rick Sanchez? Surely he’ll he given a second chance. His comments seemed to be about Jewish power in the media. If Weiner and Spitzer get back in, get a second bite at the apple, surely Rick should. It would be nice to see a few more Hispanic faces in the TV media.

    I won’t hold my breath.

    • tokyobk
      July 20, 2013, 7:44 pm

      So, only Israeli Jews should get out of Palestine not Jews who are not living in Palestine in the first place?

      Actually, her background as a Lebanese Christian should inform her that the ME and Palestine is and has always been home to a diverse group of people who have come and gone and a place where Christianity and Judaism, like Islam, are native to the soil.

      This is not about picking on a dead woman (who was also a distinguished woman of many valuable contributions).

      Its about who applies the same standards to their own group they correctly demand of others and who believes this fight is about rights of individuals (and to some extent groups) and who believes this is about Reconquista.

      • NoMoreIsrael
        July 20, 2013, 7:51 pm

        “Its about who applies the same standards to their own group they correctly demand of others ..”

        It seems we’re in perfect agreement then. Israel must permit right of return for those who were ethnically cleansed and barring them because they are not Jewish is thinly disguised Nazi bullshit that must not be tolerated.

        In short, Israel’s existence as a Jewish state requires it to be in permanent violation of the law. The split second it obeys they law, which is hardly ambiguous and has been repeatedly upheld by every legal body, there’s no more Jewish State.

        Israel is illegal.

      • irishmoses
        July 20, 2013, 9:46 pm

        tokyobk says:
        “So, only Israeli Jews should get out of Palestine not Jews who are not living in Palestine in the first place?”
        ===============
        My point was that she was speaking about Israeli Jews, and apparently a subset at that. So it was not on it’s face an antisemitic statement. She’s clearly pissed off at Israeli Jews, probably because of their ghastly treatment of the Palestinians. Since you claim you agree with that premise, why don’t you cut her some slack instead accusing her of “blood libel” for christ’s sake.
        _____________

        tokyobk says:
        “Actually, her background as a Lebanese Christian should inform her that the ME and Palestine is and has always been home to a diverse group of people who have come and gone and a place where Christianity and Judaism, like Islam, are native to the soil.”
        ==================
        Diversity there may be, but the behavior of Israeli Jews toward their religious and ethic neighbors has certainly not been particularly neighborly. She reacted angrily and stupidly with a comment that she later apologized for. She was hardly an advocate for the ethnic cleansing of all Jews from Israel. If you want to find targets for blood libel claims, Helen Thomas was pretty far down on the list.

        So, what do you think about the rehabilitation of Weiner/Spitzer? What about Weiner’s racist comments? How about Rick Sanchez; does he get another shot?

    • Citizen
      July 20, 2013, 8:08 pm

      Rick Sanchez was canned because, when he was queried on the issue of whether Daily Show’s Stewart likewise belonged to a minority group on account of his Jewish ethnicity, Sanchez responded,
      “Yeah, very powerless people. [laughs] He’s such a minority. I mean, you know, please. What—are you kidding? I’m telling you that everybody who runs CNN is a lot like Stewart, and a lot of people who run all the other networks are a lot like Stewart. And to imply that somehow they, the people in this country who are Jewish, are an oppressed minority?”

      That’s it. Helen Thomas would understand, if not the ultimate well-intentioned, but clueless, America’s Dick and Jane.

    • W.Jones
      July 20, 2013, 9:31 pm

      Irish:
      “to avoid branding her with the dreaded A word on her forehead.”
      Nice parallel with the SCARLET LETTER.

      So what do you think about Spitzer and Weiner’s reinstatements, Toky?

  10. NoMoreIsrael
    July 20, 2013, 7:43 pm

    I’m sure Helen Thomas would have no issue with Amira Hass, Gideon Levy and the 11 other Israelis who satisfy the minimum conditions required to be called human beings remaining in Israel. The rest need to find someplace else. The US, which bears much of the blame for this catastrophe, should find a place to resettle them. There’s plenty of desert here in Arizona. They can come “make it bloom.” Let them help the Rabbis of Yuma AZ grow wheat for matso. That should keep them out of trouble. They have zero right to remain in any part of Palestine and there can never be peace while they are there–that’s obvious to a child.

    • OlegR
      July 21, 2013, 6:03 am

      Am i meeting the minimum conditions to be called human?
      Who set those up ?
      What should we do with those that we find lacking ?
      I would looove to hear an honest answer

      • amigo
        July 21, 2013, 7:00 am

        “Am i meeting the minimum conditions to be called human?”oleg

        Reading some of your previous posts, it,s hard to give you better than a D.

        I would looove to hear an honest answer”O-leg

        Careful what you ask for oleg.

        “What should we do with those that we find lacking ?”.

        Maybe you should don your IOF uniform and the answer will come to you.It should also answer your 2nd question.

        Only Israelis (Jewish or non Jewish)are banned form Palestine.Don,t they teach you that in the IOF.

        Clue , 4th GC art 49.Illegal for an occupier to transfer–etc etc.

        You know the rest.

    • Obsidian
      July 21, 2013, 8:00 am

      @NoMo

      I doubt that the forced emigration of 6 million Israelis to your neighborhood would make you a happier person. In fact, I can guarantee that it would make you even more miserable.

  11. iamuglow
    July 20, 2013, 7:52 pm

    Sad she is gone.

    The hit on her character was very instructive. An orchestrated campaign to make an unguarded comment out as calling for genocide. I recall Ari Fleischer making the rounds on TV…even Obama had a comment about her, all the awards given out in her name folded with ease, everyone piling her. Even this site if I recall kept its distance from defending. A missed opportunity? Who knows. Today I think it would be slightly different. People are more aware that its forbidden to talk of Israel and they resent it.

    She did give full interviews after that comment where she elaborated what she felt. All common sense view that would align with most people here feel.

    • Annie Robbins
      July 20, 2013, 10:22 pm

      Even this site if I recall kept its distance from defending.

      actually, there’s no need for ‘recall’, anyone can just google ‘mondoweiss helen thomas’ if they’re curious if this site kept it’s distance.

      • iamuglow
        July 21, 2013, 2:04 am

        No reason to be defensive…

        I used google just now…its not useful without recalling how the story unfolded. I ‘recall’ and google confirms nothing on Mondoweiss intially. Then Phil cautiously mentioned it a couple of days in…

        ” and she wasn’t talking about the occupied territories. She said they should go back to Germany. One hears this type of comment in Palestine, too; I reported it from my Gaza trip a year back. ”

        link to mondoweiss.net

        A couple of days later she had been forced to resign.

        • Annie Robbins
          July 21, 2013, 2:22 am

          my purpose wasn’t in defense. it was simply to inform in case anyone was curious about our coverage.

          and thanks for your link. i actually had not reviewed them. the one you linked to was only three paragraphs and yes, one could perceive the first as ‘cautious’ (and none the less i share his opinion) here are the last two:

          (my bold)

          The silver lining here is that Thomas, who is an Arab-American, was expressing maximalist feelings, and if you’re going to denounce her maximalist impulses, then it is only fair to expose maximalist policies on the other side. Ari Fleischer says that Thomas is in favor of “religious cleansing.” Well what is happening now– not just in angry people’s heads– but on the ground in Sheikh Jarrah and al-Walaje and so forth? That’s a maximalist policy. Yes Arabs opposed Partition, but so did Jewish maximalists, and who has had the hammer for the last 63 years? And which side repeatedly defied international law, and Harry Truman too, when it came to letting the non-Jewish refugees of ’48 return to their homes following their cleansing?

          It’s one thing to say that Palestinians want to push Jews into the sea. And yes, some surely do. But who actually got pushed into the sea? The Palestinians in Jaffa, during the ethnic-cleansing of that Arab city. There are now Israeli art galleries in the old stolen Arab homes there. That land’s beauties must be shared.

          and now, in defense, i will say we are just human here and like the rest of society we were caught off guard and did not expect this. so sorry it took us a couple days to post about it.

      • Ellen
        July 21, 2013, 6:06 am

        Annie, right on your call out of iamglow and other’s beating that drum over and over and over. There IS a dishonest agenda behind it.

        • Annie Robbins
          July 21, 2013, 7:37 pm

          thanks ellen (and i got your message)

  12. talknic
    July 20, 2013, 8:05 pm

    Lying is against the basic tenets of Judaism. It’s bizarre.

    We can watch the video to see and hear exactly what transpired and who said Jews … She did not.

    • W.Jones
      July 20, 2013, 9:29 pm

      Abby: I want my cousins Kate and Justin to go home on time.

      Ben: So you are saying your cousins should just leave your room?

      Abby: And my house in general. Remember, their parents don’t want to be up all night.

      Ben announces that Abby wants all of her cousins to leave, even those who are 50 years old.

  13. Sumud
    July 20, 2013, 8:43 pm

    tokyobk confirms exactly what Annie said – he or she are here to deposit little turds of zip-spam all over this thread, 12 comments out of 38 from one person.

    Helen Thomas was a courageous intelligent lady and few dozen more like her in the press corps – telling truth to power – would be able to transform the US for the better.

    While her suggestion that jews should reverse-aliyah was impractical, there was nothing racist, sinister or bigoted about it – not at all.

    I challenge anyone to tell me WHY it is racist, if that’s what you believe.

    It’s certainly far less offensive than saying the indigenous population should continue to be denied the right of return to mandate Palestine or that Palestinians should be expelled to Jordan, which we hear on an almost daily basis from the ziobots.

  14. CloakAndDagger
    July 20, 2013, 8:47 pm

    @ tokyobk

    Give it a rest. We have heard you repeat your opinion about Helen Thomas in uncountable number of posts in this thread. We don’t agree with you. Move on to another thread.

    My mother used to say, if you can’t say anything good about the dead, don’t say anything.

  15. NoMoreIsrael
    July 20, 2013, 9:16 pm

    “Interviewer: “So you are saying the Jews should go back to Poland and Germany?”

    There it is in a nutshell. The zionist creep asking the questions knows perfectly well that Thomas is referring to the Israelis. So why doesn’t the interviewer say: “So you are saying the Israelis should go back to Poland and Germany?”

    That’s easy. Israelis and Jews are deliberately conflated in the question in order to turn a POLITICAL statement regarding Israeli encroachment on other people’s land into a statement of ethnic bias, which it plainly was not.

    • OlegR
      July 21, 2013, 6:07 am

      Who are those Israelis ?
      Are they Martians ?
      Or maybe she meant all of Israeli citizens the Negev bedouin and the guys from Umm el Pahm ?
      NO?
      Well i guess that leaves us with just or surprise surprise Jews.

      • Stephen Shenfield
        July 21, 2013, 8:56 pm

        They — or their parents or grandparents — were once Jews, but that doesn’t mean they still are. They are post-Jewish mutants or changelings.

      • talknic
        July 24, 2013, 12:09 am

        OlegR “Who are those Israelis ?”

        Reminder ..

        Nesenoff: “Any comments on Israel?”
        Thomas: “Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine …. Remember, these people are occupied and it’s their land”

        “Or maybe she meant all of Israeli citizens the Negev bedouin and the guys from Umm el Pahm ?

        Uh? Refer to the question she was actually asked and the answer she actually gave, rather than the nonsense you HAVE to make up.

        Israel was declared independent of Palestine effective 00:01 May 15th 1948 (me time) link to trumanlibrary.org confirmed by the Israeli Government 22nd May 1948 ” the Government of the State of Israel operates in parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel

        Simple enough a child could understand. Palestine isn’t Israel. Israel isn’t Palestine.

        It is a fact that Jews ARE returning to Germany and Poland. So where is the problem in suggesting that Israeli Jews get out of Palestine and return to Germany or Poland or wherever? Like all stupid apologist excuses and smears, nonsense abounds

  16. just
    July 20, 2013, 11:03 pm

    And so this dark day has come– she was a heroine and trailblazer to me. I really mourned the day she lost her front row seat in the press room because of some hasbarists and their adherents coupled with a terrified bunch of cowards.

    I totally admire and agree with this quote from the article:

    “”Her character was assassinated before her body submitted. She only leaves Matt Lee behind. Rest in peace!” –Muhammad Idrees Ahmad.”

    Rest in peace amazing lady.

  17. dbroncos
    July 20, 2013, 11:26 pm

    I can understand why Thomas’ statements are offensive. I remember shaking my head and frowning when I heard the news. Someone with her experience and stature should surely have something more constructive and poignant to say wrt I/P. However, I also remember thinking that the interviewer was trying to paint an old, unsuspecting lady as an anti-semite because of an off the cuff, offensive remark she made. He succeeded, demonstrating yet again that the Zionist juggernaut can ruin carreers. Norman Finkelstein complained that he now can’t even get a job at the dog pound because Google has him listed as a “holocaust denier”.

  18. NoMoreIsrael
    July 20, 2013, 11:31 pm

    A decent and courageous woman can be hounded out of her job for daring to tell the people who massacred 20,000 of her countrymen that they ought to “go back where they came from.”

    Talk about chutzpah on an industrial scale!!

    • Annie Robbins
      July 21, 2013, 1:55 am

      20 thousand? i think it was much more than that.

      • OlegR
        July 21, 2013, 6:10 am

        Really 20000 Lebanese we massacred?
        You sure you are not mixing us up with Assad senior ?

        • Cliff
          July 21, 2013, 7:08 am

          No.

          Those 20,000 Lebanese (and Palestinian) were murdered by Israel during the First Lebanon War.

        • Taxi
          July 21, 2013, 7:18 am

          Oleg,

          So you believe no one dies when israel attacks? Cuz their bullets are harmless speeding ‘lights onto all nations’?

          Actually it was 23,000 mainly Lebanese civilians, massacred by israel in its 1982 summer invasion. But you wouldn’t know this sweetie. You were still an innocent Russian at the time, oblivious to the heinous war crimes of your adopted colonial state.

          Go google it you lazy so-and-so before you open your dubious doubting mouth. For sure you won’t find it on any zionist website.

          I know you’re really squeezed for time to google in between humiliating Palestinians at checkpoints – explaind your usual quick one-liners while on thug-duty. Why don’t you spare us your tedious uninformed hasbara and get better informed? Before posting, why not take a toilet-break and get some private googling going on in the john? The Palestinians aren’t going anywhere – they’ll still be waiting for you outside in cattle lines.

        • OlegR
          July 21, 2013, 7:19 am

          /It is estimated that between 1,000 and 8,000 civilians were killed during the conflict, with differing estimates of the proportion of civilians killed. Beirut newspaper An Nahar claimed that 5,515 people, both military and civilian, were killed in the Beirut area alone during the conflict, while 9,797 Syrian soldiers, PLO fighters, and other forces aligned with the PLO, as well as 2,513 civilians were killed outside of the Beirut area.[78] Approximately 675 Israeli soldiers were killed.[1][79]/

          Care to revise your numbers ?

        • Cliff
          July 21, 2013, 7:20 am

          In June 1982 the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) invaded Lebanon in a large-scale operation codenamed “Peace for Galilee”. The Israeli forces reached as far as Beirut which was besieged and bombed for two months until Palestinian Liberation Organization forces agreed to leave the city. Some 18,000 people were reported killed and 30,000 injured during the invasion, the overwhelming majority of whom were civilians.

          Amnesty International

          link to amnesty.org

        • Taxi
          July 21, 2013, 7:23 am

          Care to provide the actual ‘Al Nahar Newspaper’ link and not some dodgy copy&paste from zionist-tampered wikidepea?

          Aside from that, your own numbers are close to 18,000 people killed anyway! Sheesh!!!

          The point is, how do you feel about so many non-jewish people killed in one summer, mostly by your beloved brute israel, just so you can leave your country of Russia to live the jewish colonial “lifestyle” in faraway Levant?

        • Cliff
          July 21, 2013, 7:41 am

          OlegR,

          That is from Wikipedia. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone.

          Why don’t you cite the ORIGINAL sources. Then quote from the ORIGINAL sources.

          Wikipedia articles contain many sources but they are then synthesized to create an impression. Zionist ideologues and members of pro-Israel groups like CAMERA have infiltrated the social hierarchy of Wikipedia by adapting their politics to the bureaucracy of Wikipedia editing.

          Examples:

          link to guardian.co.uk

          link to prospect.org

          link to haaretz.com

          Any Wikipedia article on Israel-Palestine (a very contentious subject) should be taken with a grain of salt.

          Any compendium of information that can be edited by anyone on the planet should be taken with a grain of salt.

          Amnesty International and many other sources (most other sources actually) refer to the An Nahar figures. The number is 17,825 dead. 30,000 wounded. Both mostly civilians.

          link to nytimes.com – 1982, Sept. 1

          The independent daily An Nahar tonight was preparing to publish an estimate of the dead and wounded since the Israeli invasion that puts the total, not including Israelis, at 17,825 dead and 30,103 wounded.

          An editor at An Nahr said the estimates had been compiled from hospital and Interior Ministry sources over the last two weeks and included casualties among Palestinian and Lebanese guerrillas, Palestinian and Lebanese civilians and Syrian soldiers.

          Many officials here, including those of the International Committee of the
          Red Cross, have said that numbering the dead correctly is virtually impossible.

          I’ve yet to find the original article. This was the early 1980s, so it’s probably going to be difficult to get a copy.

        • Cliff
          July 21, 2013, 7:51 am

          Oh and it seems Oleg that the particular Wikipedia passage you cited is a prime example of dishonest editing.

          The 5,515 casualty figure is referring to those killed in Beirut specifically:

          link to books.google.com

          Google Newspaper archive:

          link to google.com

          Examples – everyone citing the same figures:

          link to news.google.com

          link to news.google.com

          link to news.google.com

          link to news.google.com

          Etc. etc.

          Why doesn’t the Wikipedia article specify this? Tell us if you even read it properly Oleg.

        • OlegR
          July 21, 2013, 8:19 am

          Yes and amnesty took that data from Lebanese sources which can hardly be considered accurate or impartial.

          “By late June, the Lebanese police gave estimates of about 10,000 killed. These early figures appear to have been roughly accurate. A later accounting reported by the independent Lebanese daily An-nahar gave a figure of 17,825 known to have been killed and over 30,000 wounded, including 5500 killed in Beirut and over 1200 civilians killed in the Sidon area. A government investigation estimated that 90% of the casualties were civilians. By late December, the Lebanese police estimated the numbers killed through August at 19,085, with 6775 killed in Beirut, 84% of them civilians.”

          link to chomsky.info

          Israeli sources site lesser numbers.
          they are obviously partial as well .

        • OlegR
          July 21, 2013, 8:25 am

          I feel just fine Taxi and how are you doing ?

        • Cliff
          July 21, 2013, 8:35 am

          Oleg,

          I believe the ‘Lebanese’ figures are not simply citing ‘Lebanese’ sources.

          They incorporate several different sources like hospital records and the International Red Cross field reports.

          What were the Israeli reports based on, Oleg? How come no mainstream NGO is citing the Israeli figures?

          I respect Amnesty International. By referring to the An Nahr figures, they are endorsing An Nahr’s reporting.

          Not to mention virtually every newspaper here in America referred to the Lebanese figures too. The NY Times did so in the above article while saying that some officials within the IRC (and other organizations) said it would be impossible to get an exact number.

          Did anyone use the Israeli figures, Oleg?

        • Citizen
          July 21, 2013, 8:37 am

          Re Operation “Peace For Galilee,”according to Chomsky, a figure of 19,000 dead, 30,000 wounded was an underestimate. Word was: “It was like shooting sparrows with cannons.” The Israeli PM said Israel was attacking on the road to Hitler’s Berlin. Israel had all the latest US cutting edge weaponry, most of those who died were civilians, and this was in keeping with Israel’s military operations in the past. The treatment of captured Palestinians afterward was horrific too. Chomsky gives a lot of details: link to chomsky.info

        • Taxi
          July 21, 2013, 8:38 am

          Watching Saint George about to slay the dragon, very exciting.
          That’s about as good as my “doing” gets, thanks for asking oh caring colonialist.

        • Taxi
          July 21, 2013, 9:26 am

          Figures don’t include the thousands of civilians counted as ‘missing’ during Sharon’s Operation Psycho.

        • eGuard
          July 21, 2013, 1:47 pm

          Cliff: Zionist ideologues and members of pro-Israel groups like CAMERA have infiltrated the social hierarchy of Wikipedia by adapting their politics to the bureaucracy of Wikipedia editing.

          Last May 2013, Wikipedia editor “Soosim” was unmasked being Arnie Draiman, who is on the payroll of Zionist organisation “NGO Monitor” (Tel Aviv).

          This is how they had set up the fraud: NGO Monitor releases a hasbara press release describing/inventing some event. Soon JPost or JTA publishes it, giving it “reliable source” credit. Then Soosim, working for NGO Monitor, entered that quote into a Wikipedia topic. Voila.

        • Hostage
          July 21, 2013, 5:41 pm

          Amnesty International and many other sources (most other sources actually) refer to the An Nahar figures.

          The figure 20,000 killed was extracted from the official sources and reported by many in the media. But those numbers only covered the two heaviest months of the fighting, e.g.:

          “-between 1967 and 1982, 290 Israelis were killed in Palestinian attacks, whereas Lebanese police, UN and Red Cross figures put Israeli-caused Arab casualties at 20,000 deaths for July and August 1982 alone”

          See Edward Said, Permission to Narrate, Journal of Palestine Studies Vol. 13, No. 3 (Spring, 1984), pp. 27-48, link to jstor.org

  19. Krauss
    July 21, 2013, 12:55 am

    On a sidenote, I’m pleased that the obituaries have been positive, generally speaking.

    The NYT one quickly dispenses with the episode right at the beginning and then just showers praise over her. I think Thomas was a moral person. She bitterly opposed the Iraq war when few other dared to.

    She was probably one of the few journalists who actually took the Bush administration to task for its lies before the invasion. Funny how there’s always a minority of journalists who actually do their job. Matt Lee of AP, Glenn Greenwald of the Guardian.

    I hope there will be more courageous people like her in the future as journalists, because any democracy needs it.

    • just
      July 21, 2013, 10:02 am

      Exactly Krauss!

      Thanks for this, Annie. Helen Thomas searched for real truth tirelessly. She was blunt, inquisitive and truthful.

      (and she should never have made that apology, imho)

      A partial list of cowards from wiki:
      “Thomas’s agency, Nine Speakers, Inc., immediately dropped her as a client because of her remarks.[58][59] Craig Crawford, who co-authored Listen up, Mr. President, said “I … will no longer be working with Helen on our book projects.”[60] Her scheduled delivery of a commencement speech at Walt Whitman High School in Bethesda, Maryland, was canceled by the school.[61] The White House Correspondents’ Association, over which she once presided, issued a statement calling her remarks “indefensible.”[62] In January 2011, the Society of Professional Journalists voted to retire the Helen Thomas Award for Lifetime Achievement.[46][63]”

      So much for freedom of the press, free speech, and promoting discourse in America………

    • Donald
      July 21, 2013, 5:07 pm

      “On a sidenote, I’m pleased that the obituaries have been positive, generally speaking.”

      Same here. In fact, on one of the morning shows they even sorta misrepresented what she said in a way that covered for her, but also misrepresented the I/P conflict. At first I was irritated, but then realized if one wanted to get into her controversial remarks it would take an hour to explain the context, which is unthinkable in mainstream journalism. So within their self-imposed limits, I’m sorta glad they’re just glossing over the controversy and praising her for the bulk of her career.

  20. yonah fredman
    July 21, 2013, 1:17 am

    I had nothing but respect for the icon of the press room until the report of her comments on that hot day in May spelled the end of her career. Her comments were not innocent and her “60 Minutes” interview afterwards did not increase my love for her either. (She played the “How can I be an antisemite, when I’m a Semite?” card, an immediate symptom of street corner rhetoric and not library thinking.)

    She should rest in peace, yet to expect that the famous episode most recent in our memory would not be mentioned out of respect for the dead is a fantasy for a different age and place and not for 2013 and this site.

    • Annie Robbins
      July 21, 2013, 1:58 am

      to expect that the famous episode most recent in our memory would not be mentioned out of respect for the dead is a fantasy

      there’s a difference between mentioning and constantly reminding.

      • OlegR
        July 21, 2013, 6:12 am

        Well let’s see, what were the hallmarks of here journalistic career ?
        I am serious can you tell me without googling it first ,
        can anybody around here besides professional journalists (I guess Philip should be able to)

        • Cliff
          July 21, 2013, 7:24 am

          Why does it matter?

          How much could you tell us without ‘Googling’ information regarding Israel?

          In fact, there are several comments by you, wherein you make a quick conclusion about the article and then vanish.

          I don’t think you have the legitimacy to be accusing others of being intellectually lazy and/or shallow.

          I’ve never seen you refer to a book you’ve read or list empirical evidence to back up your beliefs.

        • OlegR
          July 21, 2013, 8:22 am

          /Why does it matter?/

          It matters because i get the distinct feeling that all the lauding and praise this women gets around here is less to due with her journalism and more to do with her bigoted statement.
          Which is very telling …

        • justicewillprevail
          July 21, 2013, 8:57 am

          So you don’t know anything about her, but want to use her to sneer at this site you keep coming back to. How very telling.

        • mijj
          July 21, 2013, 9:25 am

          What is very telling is that you’re projecting into the minds of others what you wish to be there.

        • Citizen
          July 21, 2013, 9:30 am

          @ OlegR
          I remember she was one of the very few in the press constantly questioning Bush Jr decision to attack Iraq; that alone makes her worthy of fond remembrance. That war was, and is a major US blunder in a myriad of ways negatively impacting the USA, and international rule of law. Many here admire her relentless pursuit of the truth; she was a constant vocal curb on the otherwise ever expanding power of our chief executive, our string of POTUS. We need somebody like her now even more than ever. And, obviously, she’s a great role model for our women, breaking much ground in that arena. What’s telling is your total Zionist paranoia, your tunnel vision. Of course there, I’m being redundant since Zionism is based on maintenance of paranoia.

        • NoMoreIsrael
          July 21, 2013, 10:42 am

          While I may not be able to rattle off Helen Thomas’ resume, chapter and verse, I certainly CAN remember one White House press briefing after another after another where the unfortunate viewer was falling asleep from the sheer ridiculousness of these proceedings until Helen Thomas was called on and everyone in the room took a deep breath knowing she would use the occasion to ask the most probing questions. Small wonder Stephen Colbert selected her for his companion when he stood next to George Bush and essentially called him a mass murderer to his face. THAT episode, (along with Helen’s charming performance) I would have to rank as one of the most extraordinary moments on American television.

          Today, thank goodness, there are a few potential heirs to the Helen Thomas throne. Matt Lee is doing a good job and obviously Glen Greenwald is a national treasure—mercilessly attacked by the same vile schistosomes who went after Helen.

        • Annie Robbins
          July 21, 2013, 3:13 pm

          Well let’s see, what were the hallmarks of here journalistic career ?
          I am serious can you tell me without googling it first

          i already posted a link on the this thread yesterday to democracy now in 2006 (or 7 i can’t recall) which is classic thomas and she’s very famous for, where she confronts bush about why he waged war on iraq.

        • Annie Robbins
          July 21, 2013, 3:34 pm

          i get the distinct feeling that all the lauding and praise this women gets around here is less to due with her journalism and more to do with her bigoted statement.

          for me, it is not her ‘journalism’ per se, it was her position in that chair and the probing questions she asked.

          the thing about press briefings is every other reporter in the room has access to the answers to everyone else’s questions. she was famous for being confrontational, and as she became older her presence became more iconic because she was an archetypical crone figure.

          and speaking of “distinct feelings”, i get the distinct feeling there is an effort underway to undermine her legacy and one of the ways of doing that is to pretend she didn’t have one. or that none of us had ever heard of her (or liked her) before 2011. why don’t you just speak for yourself if you had never heard of her before 2011?

        • American
          July 21, 2013, 3:37 pm

          OlegR says:
          July 21, 2013 at 8:22 am

          /Why does it matter?/

          It matters because i get the distinct feeling that all the lauding and praise this women gets around here is less to due with her journalism and more to do with her bigoted statement.
          Which is very telling …”>>>>

          Tellng that we admire people who speak truth to power.
          You are under the delusion that the anti semite hasbara rain does something…it doesnt..
          Water off a duck’s back.

        • MRW
          July 21, 2013, 3:46 pm

          “Well let’s see, what were the hallmarks of here journalistic career ?
          I am serious can you tell me without googling it first ,
          can anybody around here besides professional journalists”

          You’re a fool. Use google.

        • Hostage
          July 21, 2013, 5:52 pm

          /Why does it matter?/

          It matters because i get the distinct feeling . . .

          The trolls are concern shopping again. If it bothers you that Israel always reported much lower casualties than the press and the official UN and ICRC observers looking over their shoulders, I don’t see any evidence of it.

        • talknic
          July 21, 2013, 6:45 pm

          OlegR ” i get the distinct feeling that all the lauding and praise women gets around here is less to due with her journalism and more to do with her bigoted statement.
          Which is very telling

          As there was no bigoted statement, what IS telling is your stupidity at even bothering to try to perpetuate the falsehood that there was.

        • Bill in Maryland
          July 22, 2013, 9:48 am

          Thanks so much for recalling Helen Thomas’ role in Stephen Colbert’s unforgettable performance at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner in 2006 (a very rare, beautiful example of speaking truth to Power):
          Part One can be seen here (8:07)
          Part Two can be seen here (8:24)
          Part Three can be seen here (with cameo by Helen Thomas) (10:04)

    • Walker
      July 21, 2013, 7:57 am

      Her comments were not innocent.

      The point is the price she was forced to pay for them. Contrast how she was treated for what she said in anger when ambushed by someone trying to provoke her, to consequences suffered by luminaries like Marty Peretz and David Brooks for vicious comments made in print in cold blood about Arabs. Her comments were far more innocent than theirs. She loses her career. They suffer a little criticism in blogs.

    • MRW
      July 21, 2013, 3:50 pm

      “Her comments were not innocent and her “60 Minutes” interview afterwards did not increase my love for her either.”

      What does innocence have to do with it.? This is America. We’re supposed to have free speech. Pamela Geller does. And her racist statements would be seen as even more repugnant if you substituted Jews for Arabs.

  21. The Hasbara Buster
    July 21, 2013, 2:31 am

    @tokyobk

    The interview was clearly a setup with the interviewer freely and misleadingly interchanging “Israel” and “the Jews” and providing the words that he expected to hear, which is far different from the interviewee herself uttering those words on her own initiative. A few days after the incident Thomas was interviewed by Playboy and had this to say:

    Well, that immediately evoked the concentration camps. What I meant was they should stay where they are because they’re not being persecuted—not since World War II, not since 1945. If they were, we sure would hear about it.

    This is a far cry from advocating the expulsion of Israel-born Israelis. It’s clear from her words that she is advocating that fresh Jewish immigration to Israel be halted, which is a completely acceptable position. So that while her ambiguous remarks in the first interview are regrettable, her nonambiguous statements in the Playboy interview seem to satisfactorily set the record straight.

    Also, it is quite disingenuous for you to claim that people like Thomas scare Jews into believing they need an army. Thomas was no Middle East expert, had no political weight and was not representative of any anti-Zionist or pro-Palesitnian movement. This contrasts with the very real power enjoyed by Jewish groups in Israel who advocate the transfer of Palestinians or even Israeli Arabs.

  22. Daniel Rich
    July 21, 2013, 4:35 am

    Hi Annie,

    Thanks for putting this up.

    Ralph Nader had something to say about HT after she ‘retired’The Scourging of Helen Thomas.

    • Citizen
      July 21, 2013, 8:00 am

      Thanks, Daniel Rich–good Nader article (I wish he was POTUS)…
      Accosted by a stranger snapping questions at her with a hand-held camera while she, aged 89 years, was sitting on a White House bench in the oppressive heat. Can anyone here fathom what it’s like to be sitting in the heat at age 89 (after 62 straight years of asking tough basic questions to the biggest PTB, protecting our right to know what our goverment is doing and why)?

      I can’t, and I’m likely the oldest regular commenter on this site. But I can just imagine her annoyance, as I watched my Dad in his final years; he died a few years ago at age 91. And she carried the weight of all those years knowing what oppression the Israelis were getting away with, using US taxpayer funds, and knowing the whole world except her fellow Americans knew it.

      • NoMoreIsrael
        July 21, 2013, 11:00 am

        Well said.

        Come to think of it, the sickening rhetorical tactics of the zio crowd bear close resemblance to the military tactics used to provoke and intimidate Arabs, plainly laid out by people like Moshe Dayan:

        “Along the Syria border there were no farms and no refugee camps — there was only the Syrian army. The kibbutzim saw the good agricultural land and they dreamed about it… They didn’t even try to hide their greed for the land. We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that’s how it was. The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.”

        • Hostage
          July 21, 2013, 8:06 pm

          Come to think of it, the sickening rhetorical tactics of the zio crowd bear close resemblance to the military tactics used to provoke and intimidate Arabs, plainly laid out by people like Moshe Dayan:

          “Along the Syria border there were no farms and no refugee camps — there was only the Syrian army.

          No, even that was hasbara. The Armistice Agreement called for the gradual restoration of normal civilian life along the armistice lines and in the DMZs and totally excluded the armored military tractors mentioned by Dyan:

          In pursuance of the spirit of the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948, the Armistice Demarcation Line and the Demilitarized Zone have been defined with a view toward separating the armed forces of the two Parties in such manner as to minimize the possibility of friction and incident, while providing for the gradual restoraton [restoration] of normal civilian life in the area of the Demilitarized Zone, without prejudice to the ultimate settlement.

          Where the Armistice Demarcation Line does not correspond to the international boundary between Syria and Palestine, the area between the Armistice Demarcation Line and the boundary, pending final territorial settlement between the Parties, shall be established as a Demilitarized Zone from which the armed forces of both Parties shall be totally excluded

          The government of Syria, the Secretary General, and UNTSO subsequently reported that the Israelis had unilaterally declared sovereignty over the DMZs and used their Emergency Regulations (1945) to declare 1) the Arab cultivators a security threat; and 2) their agricultural lands located along the border and in the DMZs “closed zones”. See for example The Yearbook of the United Nations link to unispal.un.org:

          In letters of 10 and 13 January 1967, Syria informed the Council that the grave deterioration along the demarcation lines was the result of the dual Israel aim to increase tension so as to justify subsequent large-scale aggression against Syria and to expand its illegal occupation of the Demilitarized Zone by liquidating what remained of the rights of Arab cultivators.

          This is just another fantasy and part of the myth that good agricultural land was “a land without a people”.

      • Daniel Rich
        July 21, 2013, 4:26 pm

        @ Citizen,

        I’ve also noticed how some forum members go after Helen’s misgivings [and relentlessly at that] without ever mentioning the wrath of Zionists when one criticizes the Apartheid State or the illegal, land steeling OT occupants. I’ve always admired and adored women, but I do have a weakness for ladies who stand their ground.

        HT’s one of them. Annie, Kate, et al, are branches of the same tree and that means when the heat of blatant hatred gets too much, I’ll find shade beneath their tiresome ‘canopy.’

    • Annie Robbins
      July 21, 2013, 5:10 pm

      thank you for the link daniel

      In an internet poll by the Washington Post, 92% of respondents said she should not be removed from the White House press room. As an NPR listener, R. Carey, e-mailed: “D.C. would be void of journalists if they all were to quit, get fired or retire after making potentially offensive comments.”

      the only thing this hit job did was emphasize how powerful the lobby was and how swiftly they could assassinate someone and get away with it. and instill fear in people that if they should cross that line there jobs could be over too. but ultimately, helen will win on this, because in the long run it’s more a stain on those who took her out.

      be afraid, be very afraid..of crossing …them.

  23. NoMoreIsrael
    July 21, 2013, 5:09 pm

    I’ve been rather heartened at the comments posted on the Times obit story for Helen, which are overwhelmingly supportive. Given the large and vocal Jewish readership for the Times I take this as an encouraging sign that few have been taken in by the asinine “anti-Semitism” charge.

    The Times, they are a changin’ (pun intended)