Christian Zionists help settler-farmers take over Palestinian lands

Israel/Palestine
on 76 Comments
Evangelical Christians from the U.S. are living and working at Jewish settlements in the West Bank for weeks at a time. The Christians see Jewish expansion in the area as fulfilling biblical prophecy, though the settlements are a contentious issue between Israelis and Palestinians. Here volunteers harvest grapes. (Photo: Heather  Meyers/NPR)

Evangelical Christians from the U.S. are living and working at Jewish settlements in the West Bank for weeks at a time. The Christians see Jewish expansion in the area as fulfilling biblical prophecy, though the settlements are a contentious issue between Israelis and Palestinians. Here volunteers harvest grapes. (Photo: Heather Meyers/NPR)

In recent months Benjamin Netanyahu has spent time in the interview chair repeating to the American public that settlements are not responsible for the continuation of the conflict. In turn, the U.S. State Department has merely squeaked that they were “disappointed” when the first of many new settlements tenders were announced during the start of direct peace negotiations last summer. When the AP’s Matt Lee hammered spokesperson Marie Harf, she refused to concur that the new construction was harmful to prospects of peace.

In fact, the built-up areas of the settlements themselves are not a major cause of Israeli expansion into the West Bank: they constitute only two to four percent of the occupied territories. Still Israel maintains a direct hold over around 80 percent of the West Bank and one-third of Palestinians farmers can no longer access their fields.

A report published the Israeli NGO Kerem Navot [PDF] explains “that behind the widespread takeover of land throughout the West Bank for agricultural purposes stands a distinctive territorial rationale: in comparison with the construction of buildings in the West Bank settlements, staking a claim to agricultural areas requires few resources and little time.” In the hills near Nablus there are settler olive orchards and vineyards, and most of these, Kerem Navot points out, are planted in land grabbed outside of an Israeli state order by the civilians themselves. Similarly in the Jordan valley, settlers comprise just under ten percent of the population, but 50 percent of the entire region is cultivated by their crops.

The report, “Israeli Settler agriculture as a Means of Land takeover in the. West Bank,” outlines:

Today, over 93,000 dunam of Israeli agricultural activity takes place in between the military posts, civilian outposts, settlements, and bypass roads in the West Bank. This area is much larger area than the actual built-up area of the settlements and outposts (which constitute about 60,000 dunam, not including the Israeli neighborhoods in East Jerusalem). Moreover, the most rapid growth in agricultural areas is occurring around settlements that were originally established as suburban communities and where no substantial agricultural activity took place in the past.

The report also details settlers farming in Area B of the West Bank, which is illegal under Israeli law. And Christian Zionist volunteers are making possible the rapid expansion of settler-controlled fields. Hayoval, an organization founded by the Wallers, a messianic American family who have adopted the dress of modern Orthodox Jews after trading their corporate suburban life for Amish living, brings in hundreds to reinforce outposts in the South Hebron Hills.

This fall the group organized 300 farm hands. Joshua Waller, one of the eleven children of the founders according to an email exchange with Texans for Israel, produced this music video to explain their fervor (notice part of the video is filmed in H1, settler controlled Hebron, and part in the South Hebron Hills.)

“There’s a battle raging/With a people and a land/Will you rage with the nations?” sings Waller, explaining the fervor of his family’s promise to till the West Bank, with soft rock musical accompaniment.

Read the full report here.

About Allison Deger

Allison Deger is the Assistant Editor of Mondoweiss.net. Follow her on twitter at @allissoncd.

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76 Responses

  1. bintbiba
    October 27, 2013, 1:10 pm

    I feel literally sick in my guts reading this….What kind of vicious god allows these abominations to occur .
    If this is what religion is capable of causing… thank’ ….’ I am an atheist.
    I will not cause harm in Anyone’s name.

    • just
      October 27, 2013, 1:58 pm

      It is nauseating and wrong and illegal.

      Mankind is particularly evil when it comes to any and all Palestinians.

      Evangelicals in league with the Zionists. Misguided slime– all of them.

    • Susan A
      October 27, 2013, 4:27 pm

      I too felt sick. In fact, I couldn’t help but go on you tube and make loads of comments in reply to what these people said, though I don’t usually. Although I went to a church primary school I don’t regard myself as religious, but found that schooling useful in my replies! Uggg! It’s an old video, though, and virtually every commenter was a Christian Zionist, so the song was preaching to the converted for the most part.

  2. Shmuel
    October 27, 2013, 1:16 pm

    the Israeli NGO Kerem Navot [vineyard of Naboth]

    I guess that would make the US (from the DoS to the Wallers) Jezebel.

    • Susan A
      October 27, 2013, 4:27 pm

      Thanks for the chuckle Shmuel! :)

    • MahaneYehude1
      October 28, 2013, 12:52 am

      @Shmuel: There is a Midrash says that the name Navot originated from Nahalat Avot – ancestral inheritance (Patrimony).

      • Shmuel
        October 28, 2013, 3:12 am

        There is a Midrash says that the name Navot originated from Nahalat Avot – ancestral inheritance (Patrimony).

        Precisely.

  3. Citizen
    October 27, 2013, 2:18 pm

    There’s a rube born every minute; must be fun to take advantage of them. I’m sure they’d send their children (and yours) over there to die for Greater Israel and/or take bread from their mouths for Greater Israel. After those kids died, they’d just be dead, while Greater Israel lived on. What these rubes believe is just a different version of winning 72 virgins in heaven. If it wasn’t deadly, it would be hilarious. I like the juxtiposition of the face of the guy playing the guitar and the one telling us how his people own the land that appears early on in the video.

    • ziusudra
      October 28, 2013, 3:54 am

      Greetings Citizen,
      …. i’m sure they’d send their children over there……

      Same Christianity that duped us Euros. through the 8 crusades
      of 200 yrs to regain the control in the holy lands.
      The evilness of the doctrines of the former Catholic temporal power
      is alive & well in US Prostestantism.
      ziusudra
      PS from a lapsed catholic: dump all three fairy tale mythologies.

  4. HarryLaw
    October 27, 2013, 2:59 pm

    The Israeli Government including some notable International Law Lawyers like Julius Stone dispute that the settlements are illegal and since the UNSC have refused to enforce it’s own Resolutions people like Stone can argue quite rightly that until a competent court has decided on the matter and intends to enforce its ruling the settlements are legal, in the real world unless there is an expectation that the perpetrators of a particular action will be convicted and enforcement action taken by a competent judicial body, then that action [the settlement enterprise] can be presumed to be legal. International Law Lawyers by their thousands can jump up and down all day but they will not change this undeniable fact, so until the matter is finally settled in the ICC, it does no good to complain about the settlements being against Geneva 49.6, The Prosecutor at the ICC has said the ball is in the Palestinian court “we are waiting for them”. Will Abbas disappoint her and all of us?

    • Naftush
      October 28, 2013, 4:01 am

      “Will Abbas disappoint her and all of us?” By your lights, he will. He and his mentor Arafat had decades to put forward rational claims and haven’t done so. Abbas will instead serve up more of the same old brew of pathos and threats. He hasn’t got a claim to his office, let alone sovereignty in the disputed territory. Resorting to the ICC is a sham; it proposes “settling” the matter by the gavel rather than by negotiations.

      • HarryLaw
        October 28, 2013, 6:11 am

        Naftush @ “Resorting to the ICC is a sham; it proposes “settling” the matter by the gavel rather than by negotiations.”
        So you prefer a world without the rule of law, where bank robbers and rapists negotiate with their victims until a solution is reached. Do you really wish disputes to be settled without recourse to the law? Where might is right, of course you do.

    • walktallhangloose
      October 28, 2013, 10:26 am

      The International Court of Justice in its Advisory Opinion to the UN General Assembly on The legal consequences of the wall being built in the Occupied Palestinian Territories concluded that “the Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (including East Jerusalem) have been established in breach of international law”, (namely the 4th Geneva Convention). Do not be misled by the words ‘advisory’ and ‘opinion’: the ICJ is the highest court that exists; it cannot be overruled, and its Opinions are therefore definitive statements of international law. The settlements are illegal. Julius Stone is wrong.

      It is correct to say that an Advisory Opinion is not a binding judgment: Israel appeared as a witness, not a defendant. It is of course open to the Security Council to pass a Chapter VII resolution saying that because the settlements are illegal, building should stop. It is a misleading to say the Security Council ‘has refused’ to pass such a resolution. It has not been able to, because the US would veto it.

      The International Criminal Court is another matter. The settlement program is a war crime under the 4th Geneva Convention, and those authorizing it, namely the ministers of successive Israeli governments and the Military Governors, bear personal criminal responsibility for it. They would undoubtedly be found guilty if a case were brought. I suspect Abbas is keeping this as his ‘nuclear option’ if the present talks fail.

      • HarryLaw
        October 28, 2013, 11:28 am

        walktallhangloose, @ The Israelis in breach of Geneva 49.6, “They would undoubtedly be found guilty if a case were brought”. Your opinion is the same as the World court’s, it happens to be my opinion also, but that is all they are “opinions”, if we are to use the Law, we must hear all the evidence from both sides and then the properly constituted court can give it’s verdict and pass sentence, and everyone should be in no doubt that the court has the power to see that the sentence will be carried out. I agree with much of what you say, but in the final analysis you sound a little like Karl Malden in the film, One eyed jacks, when he tells Marlon Brando ” we are going to give you a fair trial and then we are going to hang you”. I hope you are right about the “nuclear option”.

      • walktallhangloose
        October 28, 2013, 2:51 pm

        Unfortunately, we cannot be sure there would even be a trial. Israel has not accepted the jurisdiction of the ICC, so even if the Prosecutor issued arrest warrants, Israel would not hand over the suspects. But it would strictly limit their future foreign travels, and I think it would have a huge impact on Israeli politics, but what that impact would be I have no idea.

      • Shingo
        October 28, 2013, 5:13 pm

        al. Israel has not accepted the jurisdiction of the ICC, so even if the Prosecutor issued arrest warrants, Israel would not hand over the suspects.

        Doesn’t matter. They can try individuals in absentia.

        Those who have accepted the ICC would be obliged to act according to the ICCs findings. That would severely impact trade and commerce as well as diplomatic ties.

      • Shingo
        October 28, 2013, 5:28 pm

        The ICJ already heard both sides of the argument. Dr Allan Baker presented Israel’s argument and it was thrown out of court.

      • walktallhangloose
        October 29, 2013, 8:31 am

        The Pre-Trial hearing to confirm the charges can be held without the suspect present: Article 61.2 of the Rome Statute of the ICC. The trial cannot be held without the presence of defendant: Article 63.1.

  5. FreddyV
    October 27, 2013, 3:05 pm

    Phil Weiss – Adam horowitz:

    This is where the problem lies. Not with a few influential rich Jews a’la Adelson and a load of bullshit thought about ‘where Jews are now and how we can change the paradigm’.

    The problem lies with the 50 million or so ‘Christian Zionist’ dickheads who think like these assholes.

    If you want the US to start exercising its veto in the UN, start with educating these bigots.

    • ritzl
      October 27, 2013, 3:31 pm

      You mean education like this: http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/HageeUnrepentantHeretic.htm

      A bizarre article, but one that indicts the non-fundy view that Jews and Christians can live together. Hagee is a heretic, doesn’t mention Jesus at meetings, and prohibits proselytizing, per the article.

      If these views caught on, that would be the end of these CZs and their collaboration with Jewish Israeli assimilation of the WB. But it would be a different set of crazy.

      • Citizen
        October 27, 2013, 5:44 pm

        This article covers how the CZ mind “thinks”: http://www.christianzionism.org/Article/Sizer08.asp

        Seems the key is that God is a real estate agent and Jesus, his examples, and his teachings, should be ignored.

      • W.Jones
        October 27, 2013, 8:27 pm

        Hagee… doesn’t mention Jesus at meetings, and prohibits proselytizing, per the article.
        Hostage I think pointed out that some Messianics think Jesus was a Messiah but not a son of God. Perhaps when long enough time is spent in the idealogical embrace of State Systems, more of them may begin to think this way. Perhaps stopping evangelizing may be a first step.

      • ritzl
        October 28, 2013, 12:18 am

        Thanks Citizen. Such easily-manipulated, true-believing (is that redundant?), crazy people.

      • ritzl
        October 29, 2013, 5:11 pm

        @W.Jones It took me a while to understand. Very interesting point. Is another Reformation-like process at hand within the CZ community? Separating from political Israel/Zionsim now, instead of political Catholicism? I don’t really know much/anything about church/fundie politics, but you’re right, something may be happening there.

        I wish any potential CZ split up didn’t suggest that the lid would come off the crazy for the benefit of reduced popular support for Zionism in the Christian community. A mixed bag.

        Interesting. Something to look for. Thanks (Hostage too).

    • ziusudra
      October 28, 2013, 4:06 am

      Greetings Freddie V,
      .. how can we change the paradigm……

      With the US, EU, NATO, UN, Fed. Res.,
      W.B.,US & Euro Banking consorts Google,
      Microsoft, US & Euro Media,
      Catholicism & US Protestantism all
      roosting together, who’s going to stop them?
      Ziusudra
      PS The Romans ruled 60 mill People with 120K
      standing army.
      The British Empire did it with 60K.

    • traintosiberia
      October 28, 2013, 1:36 pm

      Their ( Evangelist ) power comes from the Zionist .It leaves them them with more than plausible denialability. The moment Zionist decides to pull the rug out of their so called steadfast hard and solid ground , these buffons would collapse like a house of the card . The audio-visual effects of these evangelist are created by the echo chamber provided by the media . It is like this- –someone invites one of these loud mouthed to come to the show of the TV on a Sunday or Saturday and ask his or her opinion .The loudmouthed knows what to say, how to offend,how to demonize,how to offer fealty according the wishes of the TV owner and according to the expectation from the general trend on the media. His congregation love the new found celebrity and being showcased by the media . The loudmouthed is then asked what advice he has got for the Congress and the President and is asked if he or she would travel and talk to Congress or President. Next time President or the Congressman is asked if he or she would invite the minister from so and so who was on the TV( FOX might ask about the conversation on the CNN and vice versa or NYT will mention or some local outlet in NY or Washington DC will ). The guy gets the invitation or the phone call. The slow building of this process lead to an artificial power base which is trumpeted as a real power. If that were the case -Graham did not have to apologize for a comment he made with the president about Jewish influence some 40 yrs ago.If these guys had the power from popular base – we still be singing national anthem ,pledges,hold hand in gods name in the school and government offices and there will be no abortion or gender,sex orientation equality or pornography or the Christians wont be persecuted in the Holy land or be killed in the wars orchestrated by US in the ME.
      Zionist one day will blame the Christians for allowing what was done to the country by Israeli agents. They are already doing that by mentioning the overwhelming bipartisan support for Israel or overwhelming grass root support for the State of Israel without mentioning how it was and is being achieved .
      Zionist is definitely trying its luck with Saudi despot with a similar plan to execute same fate of the Islam .

  6. ritzl
    October 27, 2013, 3:34 pm

    You sure would think that CZs could work the land and get closer to God in the Holy Land, independent of who’s land it is. But then the director of CUFI is David Brog – Jewish Zionist.

    • Inanna
      October 28, 2013, 1:25 am

      That’s not their belief ritzl. They want the Jews to come back because it’s necessary for their End Times prophecy to come true about the second coming of Christ. The Jews must return, Israel must be recreated and apparently the Jews who don’t convert to Christianity will be massacred. It fits in really nicely with militarist/imperialist notions in the west and forgets the Christians in the Middle East. I’m sure they’re ok with dispossessing them, if they even realize there are Christians still in the Middle East.

      I’m not sure why any Jews would be friendly with people who want them dead or converted (in what would basically be a cultural as well as non-cultural genocide) but I guess some Zionist Jews would say their prophecies are wrong and accept their help anyway.

      • W.Jones
        October 28, 2013, 9:33 am

        “I’m sure they’re ok with dispossessing them, if they even realize there are Christians still in the Middle East.”
        Wouldn’t they prefer for Christians in the Middle East to have the same ideas they do?

      • Elliot
        October 28, 2013, 11:36 am

        “I’m not sure why any Jews would be friendly with people who want them dead or converted (in what would basically be a cultural as well as non-cultural genocide) but I guess some Zionist Jews would say their prophecies are wrong and accept their help anyway.”

        It’s cynical, mutual manipulation on the part of Jews and Christians.

        Isn’t it odd, that, while Christianity is a matter of belief, of accepting certain propositions (“Jesus is my savior” or “I believe in the God of Abraham etc.”), being Jewish, per these Christians, is something different: membership in a secular nation. They draw a line in the sand not with a flag of the Torah, but the State of Israel’s flagpole.
        Is it too much to say that this is a Ku Klux Klan mindset applied not to White “Christian” America, but to a Jewish Israel?

      • W.Jones
        October 28, 2013, 12:19 pm

        Isn’t it odd, that, while Christianity is a matter of belief, of accepting certain propositions (“Jesus is my savior” or “I believe in the God of Abraham etc.”), being Jewish, per these Christians, is something different: membership in a secular nation. They draw a line in the sand not with a flag of the Torah, but the State of Israel’s flagpole.

        Elliot,

        You are thinking far too deeply about the philosophy.

        One can just read about Israel in the Old Testament and then hear “Israel” today. What else do you expect? Anthropological analysis? Traditional theology?

      • Elliot
        October 28, 2013, 3:16 pm

        Perhaps they are simple-minded but they still have a certain mindset. It doesn’t matter whether (or not) they have reflected on it. The KKK weren’t necessarily deep thinkers either.
        Who is on the other side of the “line in the sand” that they draw with an Israeli flag? It’s not the anti-Christ, Papists, the Devil or any other traditional Protestant target. These young men (and woman) would have to have worn blinkers when they passed through Israel and seen all manner of fornication and general heathen practices. Apparently the only thing that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob cares about is standing up to the Muslims. If you do that + claim the name “Israel”, you’re a good Jew, per these Christians.

      • ritzl
        October 28, 2013, 6:12 pm

        Well said, Elliot.

      • W.Jones
        October 28, 2013, 6:43 pm

        Who is on the other side of the “line in the sand” that they draw with an Israeli flag?
        People who oppose the nationalism.

        Apparently the only thing that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob cares about is standing up to the Muslims.
        According to their ideology, it is not really about fighting Muslims at all, it is about supporting the system. Of course, in reality if the inhabitants were overwhelmingly Christian it would be a much harder sell to make. Probably in that case the Nakba would not have happened, and history would have been much different.

      • Elliot
        October 29, 2013, 11:44 pm

        @ W.Jones – What about Arab nationalism? It’s all about Israeli nationalism. There used to be many more Palestinian Christians in I/P, but an Arab of any religion is just the same. I don’t think the CZs care to make distinctions between the religion of the natives. Their categories, when it comes to Palestine are not religious, but secular – nationalistic (in the case of Israel) and racist (in the case of the Palestinians). It is a deeply disrespectful stance:anyone other than CZs cannot be viewed in religious terms. That privilege is reserved for the CZs.

      • W.Jones
        October 30, 2013, 5:00 pm

        Elliot,
        There is another way of looking at the statement where you described their stance as: “anyone other than CZs cannot be viewed in religious terms. That privilege is reserved for the CZs.”
        This is not the case. CZs who happen to be Palestinian for example would still become “categorized” as you described. In fact, the same is true for all CZs by extension, although they are not part of the IP issue itself. In other words if a CZ happened to be living in the holy land, even if he/she was not Arab, he would then be categorized himself.

      • ritzl
        October 28, 2013, 6:09 pm

        Inanna, you’re right of course. My comment was semi-sarcastic. The true-belief is what you say for CZs, generically.

        But the clue that CUFI in particular is a political manipulation of true-belief is in the link I added to FreddyV’s comment. The [political] manipulation is made clear by David Brog as CUFI Director, and Hagee’s “heretical” deferral/deferential behavior/no-proselytizing instructions wrt to Jews, and Jews in the Holy Land in particular.

        One can only guess why, but it sure seems like a money thing once again. I believe it’s stating the obvious that fundy leaders believe very little (and do less) of what they actually say, but they say it anyway. People, sadly, follow along.

        In this case, as you say, indigenous Christians simply don’t enter into the manipulation. That sad and hypocritical fact is always part of my annual Christmas complaint to local media, as they repeat the Israeli-supplied, Christian-targeted Holiday message here in the Bible Belt.

        Better days…

      • Inanna
        October 28, 2013, 7:05 pm

        Thanks ritzl. Yes, religion is at the service of politics and imperialism – everyone’s doing it.

      • traintosiberia
        October 29, 2013, 9:10 am

        This degree of faith in something that is so outside the realm of secular rational,pragmatic,and outside the political decision making process at least in 21 st century but still manages to underpin the reasons offered by the scientifically minded Israeli leaders ,academics,military strategist and are supported to the hilt by secular establishment in US that includes the the neocons,and media Hollywood,government or opposition, fringe elements in Florida or Oaklahama, racist rant composers ,reflexive commentators on NPR and the teachings in the school,guides offering information in the museum and special events involving history of ME . The list goes on and on adding more where one can find a justification of occupation on religious or quasi- moral -memory of religion based history or on the centuries old sufferings everyday from the same quarters who mock Sharia, religious ugliness of Islam,or base the reaction to the occupation as expression of some deep seated inexplicable anger unique to Islam that according to them has nothing to do withoccupationbut everything todo with inherent Islamic hatred of modernism,secularism,multi culturism,and hatred of woman. Some of these famous people have added additional layers of hypocrisy alleging that the anti modern feelings are enthused with some kind of sexual repression rampantly evident in Moslem world all the while raising the fear for suppressed women and highlighting the subjugated status of women ,debauchery,multiple marriages,easy divorce in favor of men . The irony lies in the normalization of the obvious inconsistencies ,ignoring the lapses that are purposeful and methodical,and allowing one lie to support another lie that is in the offing for next round of criminal activity.

  7. HarryLaw
    October 27, 2013, 5:09 pm

    Julius Stone [International Law Lawyer] regards the settlements as legal on the grounds that the forcible transfer into the West Bank of Israeli Citizens would contravene article 49 taken as a whole, while the voluntary transfer of such people would not contravene that article. Here is his view on that paragraph..
    Stone referred to the absurdity of considering the establishment of Israeli settlements as violating Article 49(6):

    We would have to say that the effect of Article 49(6) is to impose an obligation on the State of Israel to ensure (by force if necessary) that these areas, despite their millennial association with Jewish life, shall be forever judenrein. Irony would thus be pushed to the absurdity of claiming that Article 49(6), designed to prevent repetition of Nazi-type genocidal policies of rendering Nazi metropolitan territories judenrein, has now come to mean that?.?.?.?the West Bank?.?.?.?must be made judenrein and must be so maintained, if necessary by the use of force by the government of Israel against its own inhabitants. Common sense as well as correct historical and functional context exclude so tyrannical a reading of Article 49(6).
    Stone’s pointed critique of what has since become “accepted” wisdom invites a hypothetical: Suppose a group of Palestinian Arabs who are citizens of Israel requested permission to establish a community on the West Bank. Further, assume that Israel facilitated the community’s establishment, without the loss of their citizenship, on land purchased from other Palestinian Arabs (not citizens of Israel) or on state land. Would establishment of this settlement violate Article 49(6)? If not, how can one distinguish the hypothetical Arab settlements from Jewish settlements?
    Whereas Stone and E Rostow’s opinions are in a very distinct minority, ranged against most International Law Lawyers, most states at the United Nations and the opinion of the International Court of Justice [the World Court] but until they are proved wrong by a competent judicial body with the power to implement it’s judgements their opinions are just as good or bad as anybody else.

  8. anonymouscomments
    October 27, 2013, 5:23 pm

    i feel that people like us, and honest reporting on israel/palestine, needs to shift with regard to occupied territories and east jerusalem. we almost cede them east jerusalem in a way.

    myself and many of us, have bent to the narrative of the zionist expansion, and act like occupied east jerusalem and the west bank are different.

    we often include the number of settlers in east jerusalem as an aside, but at times leave it out entirely. hell, when we do that, we are de facto more zionist than almost every nation in the world, including very zionist lobbied nations, which do not even recognize the annexation.

    there is no difference, just because israel illegally annexed east jerusalem (also with the expanded ‘borders’ of the municipality to go up to bethlehem and making ‘jerusalem’ HUGE, as it never was!).

    we should make no distinction. it must be combined, to truly state the reality, or at least always boldly noted as the ‘other’ part of the blatantly illegal israeli expansion in the occupied territories. a nuanced difference technically, but the SAME bag of tricks, and the same blatant land grab.

    settlers in east j, are settlers. it is essentially another layer of the same type of colonization, ethnic cleansing, permit denials, expulsion/’deportation’, and home demolition paradigm we see in the west bank.

  9. Citizen
    October 27, 2013, 6:06 pm

    Here, Hagee tells the Jews in a Jewish paper, why his CZs support Israel and the Jews:
    http://forward.com/articles/127965/why-christian-zionists-really-support-israel/
    And he concludes: “It’s the right thing to do.”

    • ziusudra
      October 28, 2013, 4:40 am

      Greetings Citizen,
      QQuote Pastor Hagee:
      …….If we take away the Jewish contribution to christianity……

      Being that the Pharisees adopted & Judaised :
      . The concept of Anthropo Theism from the Sumerians,
      . EL had 70 Children Deities, one of which was Yahweh,
      (the private Deity of King Saul)
      . hence, no Anthropo Monotheism!
      .Noah from the Sumerians,
      .Abraham from the Sumerians,
      .The Deed of Moses’ theft of the Egyptian 10 commandments,
      . The theft of the concept of the ‘Trinity’ by the Catholic Church
      from the Sumerians,
      The Tribes Judaised these Sumerian concepts,
      The Europeans Christianitized what was Judaised.
      The Arabs Islams Islamized both.
      Where’s the difference from older to newer, baseless Beliefs?
      ziusudra
      PS Who knows how many Mytholgies came & went before the
      recorded history of the Sumerians?

  10. DICKERSON3870
    October 27, 2013, 7:31 pm

    RE: “Christian Zionists help settler-farmers take over Palestinian lands”

    SPEAKING OF CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS:

    [EXCERPT] . . . During a performance [in 2010] by singer Dudu Fisher, the God TV camera panned to the audience and centered on Joel Bell, leader of Worldwide Biblical Zionists. WBZ is currently building a center in Sha’ar Benjamin for “facilitating absorption” of Christian Zionists into the West Bank. It was established after a joint meeting held in Texas of the Board of Governors of World Likud led by Danny Danon, and World Evangelical Zionists led by Joel Bell. Speakers included ZOA’s Morton Klein. . . *

    * SOURCE: “A Serial Obstructionist”, By Rachel Tabachnick, ZEEK – Forward, 3/15/10

    [EXCERPTS] . . . Shortly after Vice President Joe Biden’s arrival in Israel, Netanyahu and Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat were the headliners at Pastor John Hagee’s two-hour Christians United for Israel (CUFI) extravaganza at the Jerusalem Convention Center. . .
    . . . Monday’s CUFI production was based on the concept of “biblical Zionism,” or the belief that God mandates nonnegotiable borders of Israel, and any leader or nation who thwarts this divine plan will be cursed. Before introducing Netanyahu, Hagee stated, “World leaders do not have the authority to tell Israel and the Jewish people what they can and can not do in Jerusalem.” He added, “Israel does not exist because of a decree of the United Nations in 1948. Israel exists because of a covenant God made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. . . The settlements are not the problem.”
    In his books and sermons Hagee has promoted a “greater Israel,” that will reclaim all of Israel’s former biblical territory, stating “In modern terms, Israel rightfully owns all of present-day Israel, all of Lebanon, half of Syria, two-thirds of Jordan, all of Iraq, and the northern portion of Saudi Arabia.”
    At the Jerusalem CUFI event Hagee described Ahmadinejad as the Hitler of the Middle East who could turn the world upside down in 24 hours, words similar to those he made when lobbying for the attack on Iraq. . .
    . . . During a performance by singer Dudu Fisher, the God TV camera panned to the audience and centered on Joel Bell, leader of Worldwide Biblical Zionists. WBZ is currently building a center in Sha’ar Benjamin for “facilitating absorption” of Christian Zionists into the West Bank. It was established after a joint meeting held in Texas of the Board of Governors of World Likud led by Danny Danon, and World Evangelical Zionists led by Joel Bell. Speakers included ZOA’s Morton Klein. . .

    ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://zeek.forward.com/articles/116518/

  11. W.Jones
    October 27, 2013, 8:21 pm

    1. Jesus did not teach His followers to create a national State in the Holy Land.

    2. The C.Zionist movement is a creation of political forces and realities, much like the very similar past conquistador belief by the US in Manifest Destiny.

    3. The key is that in Galatians 3-4 the apostle Paul explains that all Christians are actually Abraham’s descendants, and that spiritual heritage from Abraham that Christians have is even more valid than physical birth. Paul concludes that Christians are also children of God’s promises to Abraham. This matters because the land belief of C.Zionism is based on God’s promise to Abraham about the land.

    • ziusudra
      October 28, 2013, 4:54 am

      Greetings W.Jones,
      … Paul explains that all Christians are acutally Abraham’s descendents……

      Abraham travels to Canaan ca. 1700BC ca. 500 yrs before the Tribes arrive!
      He brought his Anthropo Polytheism to the Canaanites. They took it up.
      The Pharisees adopt ‘in writing’ between 536BC & 456BC, the tenents of
      Abraham after freedom of captivity in Babylonia.
      King Cyrus would allow them to return to Jerusalem where he ruled, if they
      could prove that they would live by a ‘Code of Ethics’. They rampaged &
      Judaiszed everything.
      ziusudra
      PS Pssst! Paul, we are all children of the concept of the Sumerian Deities.

  12. Inanna
    October 28, 2013, 1:14 am

    These people have basic problems with reading comprehension and logic. How do they achieve any logical coherence between Christ’s teachings – loving your enemy, turning the other cheek – with the smiting your enemies? Christ apparently brought in a new covenant, of which all humanity is included, not just the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That new covenant frees mankind from the burden of original sin and promises eternal life with Christ. The new covenant makes no provision for smiting, but for love and forgiveness. There are radical philosophical changes from the Old Testament to the New. I fail to understand how any literate person would miss them.

    • Citizen
      October 28, 2013, 1:34 am

      @ Inanna
      I guess you didn’t go the link I provided above, so here it is again–regarding the CS “thinking” process: http://www.christianzionism.org/Article/Sizer08.asp

      Do you think they studied literature in college?

      And here, again, is Hagee himself explaining his stance: http://forward.com/articles/127965/why-christian-zionists-really-support-israel/

      They are like morons who take fairy tales literally; or rather, they cherry pick certain passages, often filled with figurative language, of the bible (both old and new testaments)–and then take those cherries literally, and the rest they ignore. I’ve read that Hagee never speaks about Jesus, his ethics or morality, except to point out JC was a Jew, as were all his disciples.

    • yonah fredman
      October 28, 2013, 3:14 am

      Inanna- Just a mention- “the radical philosophical changes from Old Testament to New” indicates a certain ignorance regarding the parts of the Old Testament that resemble the new- Jesus read from Isaiah at the synagogue, did he not?

      But you are pretending that this is the first time that the New Testament was used to justify war and smiting your enemies. Have you ever read any history of the conflict between Islam and Christendom and between sects in Christendom? Are you going to pretend that the Bible was never used by Christians as a tool in their wars until now.

      • W.Jones
        October 28, 2013, 6:32 am

        Inanna- Just a mention- “the radical philosophical changes from Old Testament to New” indicates a certain ignorance regarding the parts of the Old Testament that resemble the new- Jesus read from Isaiah at the synagogue, did he not? ~Yonah Freedman

        The passage from Isaiah that He read said that He was “anointed” to preach the gospel (good news). The word “anointed” is the source of the word “Messiah.”

        Luke 4:17: And the book of Isaias the prophet was delivered unto him…

        18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me. Wherefore he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, he hath sent me to heal the contrite of heart,

        19 To preach deliverance to the captives, and sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of reward.

        He might say that before the New Testament time there was spiritual captivity, blindness, and hurt, and His Messianic work is to heal those things. Certainly the Old Testament was a spring-board for those prophesied “preachings”, and the Old Testament has similar ideas about deliverance and miracles. But in any case the philosophy of the New Testament- the teachings and covenant of the Messiah- is basically those kinds of redemptive things.

        Theoretically, with the Messiah we should have a transformed, new, renewed, and different way of thinking that focuses on redemption, although there is also some continuation of preceding ideas too. One can therefore find a strong philosophical change in thinking.

        The change from thinking about a physical, limited, promised land, to a spiritual idea about the promised land or to a focus on the whole world as promised and blessed is an example of strong philosophical change.

      • Inanna
        October 28, 2013, 7:13 pm

        There are radical differences between the old and new testaments but that doesn’t mean there aren’t similarities. However, to say that those differences aren’t different enough to make Christians different from Jews is wrong. I’m not talking about the hypocrisy of Christianity in respect to their behavior, I’m just talking about doctrine. One could argue that Islam and Judaism have less hypocrisy in behavior since they both think it’s ok to ‘smite your enemy’ whereas Christianity is not. At least in belief.

    • ziusudra
      October 28, 2013, 5:14 am

      Greetings Inanna,
      ….. These people have basic problems with reading comprehension & logic……

      There is no archeological evidence nor writings to support that Jesus ever existed.
      We know that Mahatmagandi & Martin Luther King did.
      It is a form of humour under the Semite Falesteeni to turn the other cheek, but
      we in the west fail to note that they meant: Did you think, i’d turn the other cheek.
      Today we use the Phrase to cooperate.
      When we quote today, When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
      These were spys from other State/States.
      Today we use the phrase to cooperate.
      ziusudra
      PS Everybody can read, they nor i agree.
      Martin Luther & the Protestants rightfully dumped the corrupt temporal
      Catholic Church, but look at the Evangelicals of today.
      Islam was hijacked politically immediately after Mohammad’s death.
      What’s with our 3 pillar contistutional Democracy today?

      • Inanna
        October 28, 2013, 7:04 pm

        I’m not a fan of any religion ziusudra, and given the fact that the Abrahamic religions owe large debts of gratitude to Mesopotamian and other myths, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if there was not historical Christ. But I thought that people calling themselves Christians would at least be aware of the theology of their religion’s founder.

  13. Ecru
    October 28, 2013, 1:37 am

    Onward Christian Soldiers? Onward to One State for All? Does anyone think these inbreeds know that’s what they’re helping create?

    What IS it with American Christians? I’ve never met a single European or Latin American Christian quite as insane as any of this lot. Maybe I’m just mixing in the right circles?

    Is all this because hiding their faces under white hoods and burning crosses isn’t so acceptable in the USA any more and so they have to travel abroad to get their jollies? Well I suppose that Israelis are the perfect holiday hosts for them then.

    • W.Jones
      October 28, 2013, 12:10 pm

      Oh come now, Ecru. Let’s not be so provincial, shall we?

      Has the Church Replaced Israel? Revelation TV, UK.

      • Ecru
        October 29, 2013, 5:57 am

        Oh I knew there were bound to be some somewhere, which is why I framed the last phrase about mixing in circles as a question. But they’re a definite fringe on a fringe over here and hardly have the impact the American ones have. Maybe it’s down to Europeans being more cynical in general than Americans?

        As for this show – I’d never even heard of the channel let alone the programme which shows how much Europe and the USA differ. But it was interesting (until I just couldn’t listen any more) that the Zionist did state specifically that Israel could do wrong, that is was not always in the right. This alone seems to show a more nuanced view of things than his American counterparts, although (cynic, remember?) he was making that statement in public, so whether he meant it or not is another question. On the theology – I think the non-Zionist took him apart frankly.

      • W.Jones
        October 29, 2013, 2:37 pm

        Ecru,

        I am glad you liked the show, and your comments were interesting.

        The figures were in fact somewhat opposites. Calvinist protestantism as a movement gives its adherents a wide range of ways they can invent their beliefs, since they do not consider preceding Church traditions to be an important religious “authority”. Naturally there are far more Calvinists, eg. Evengelicals, Baptists, etc. in the US than in Europe, and their ideology has changed drastically based on political realities. As Feuerbach’s school of philosophy said: “reality determines consciousness”. ie. the political situation and powers influence their religious teachings.

        The process however is not really so absent in western Europe as you may think, although it may not come out in as drastic a form. That is, the “Interfaith deal” about criticising the State unfortunately plays a role in some “mainstream” Churches, and it has even influenced the teachings of some of their religious scholars. The example I would give is “Post-Auschwitz Theology”, which Braverman has described, if not in name. That is, instead of merely strongly impressing on the faithful the importance of tolerance, prejudice, and nonjudgmentalism, there has been a shift in major teachings, as Braverman discussed, for example in Mondoweiss and in some of his lectures. Another example of this shift would be if you tried to stake out a “middle ground” between the two speakers.

        To some, C.Zionism is wacky, while to others, it “makes sense”. Something similar can be said about some of the mainstream Protestants’ changes on the topic, which is not to say how far those changes have proceeded.

        Peace.

      • W.Jones
        October 29, 2013, 10:29 pm

        I meant to say:

        That is, instead of merely strongly impressing on the faithful the importance of tolerance, and avoiding prejudice, and judgmentalism,

        Of course, prejudice is an important concept- one that we are to learn to avoid.

        When I wrote:

        Another example of this shift would be if you tried to stake out a “middle ground” between the two speakers.

        What I meant was that the shift might be into a “middle ground” between the two speakers in the video I linked to above.

        An example of this shift was when a quote by Braverman, about how Christianity changed things that were exclusive into things that were universal, was excised from the Church of Scotland Document. Braverman explained on Mondoweiss that this was done because it sounds too much like “Supersessionism” for them.

        I get what you mean about Christian Zionists in America going too far. However, perhaps things are really not so different in Europe as you might think if the Church of Scotland feels compelled to remove teachings about “Supersessionism”, change and universalism.

      • W.Jones
        October 30, 2013, 7:05 pm

        I never saw a clip appear in full picture in a comment before.

        How odd.

      • miriam6
        October 30, 2013, 9:58 pm

        W.Jones @;

        It is happening on the Lou Reed thread too. I thought it was a Halloween gremlin in my computer..
        Thanks for the clip though. The Others is one of the spookiest movies ever..
        Happy Halloween everyone!
        I am dressing up as Pammie Gellar! Complete with Gellar horror mask and green fright wig .. just lovely

  14. ymedad
    October 28, 2013, 1:47 am

    Thank God for Christians who realize the truth of the Biblical narrative and seek to fulfill the words of Isaiah 60:10 “And foreigners shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee; for in My wrath I smote thee, but in My favour have I had compassion on thee.”.

    • Shingo
      October 28, 2013, 6:46 am

      Thank God for Christians who realize the truth of the Biblical narrative and seek to fulfill the words of Isaiah 60:10

      The Bible is fiction and so is the narrative. Of course, if you want to argue that the Biblical narrative is true, then you have the fires of hell to look forward to, because the Biblical narrative says you are going to burn in hell unless you stop being a Jew.

      And those Christians who believe in the Biblical narrative are nothing more than a pack of wolves licking their lips over your demise.

      I guess when you schtetler nutjobs have so few friends, you have to take what you can get.

      • mcohen
        October 28, 2013, 8:13 am

        Shingo says:
        October 28, 2013 at 6:46 am

        “The Bible is fiction and so is the narrative”

        and

        “Biblical narrative says you are going to burn in hell unless you stop being a Jew”

        equals

        “pack of wolves licking their nutjobs”

    • W.Jones
      October 28, 2013, 6:54 am

      Perhaps this kind of literal re-interpretation would not be troubling if it was not used to justify the current situation. Unfortunately, a big literal wall is being built around Jerusalem on confiscated land.

      Perhaps Isaiah 60 had a fulfillment in physical form a few centuries later at the time of Cyrus. In Christian thinking the passages are prophetic and, like the visions one sees in a dream, prophecies are not necessarily literal the exact way they look in the dream. So the passage can have a fulfillment in spiritual form after the coming of the Messiah.

    • talknic
      October 28, 2013, 7:46 pm

      ymedad “Thank God for ..”

      That the same God who was AWOL during the Holocaust?

      BTW God is irrelevant to the official internationally recognized status of the State of Israel as it officially asked to be recognized by the official Israeli Government May 145th 1948 “MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.”

  15. Citizen
    October 28, 2013, 2:19 am

    I urge everybody here who is amazed and very dismayed at the crazy, dangerous ignorance of the CZ millions in America to read this article from a former CZ about the nature of himself and the people who believe the CZ nonsense sea to shiny sea: http://www.jewsonfirst.org/09a/thorsen.html

    Note exactly how it comes to pass, when he’s a family man in middle age, amongst his fellow Fox News-watching religious peers who never even hear of the term “Christian Zionist,” that he finally gets a clue how dangerously screwed up CZ is in the real world–from a handful of lonely people who picket outside his church regarding the plight of the Palestinians.

  16. kayq
    October 28, 2013, 2:40 am

    Someone tell me again what difference there is between Muslim extremists abusing religious writings to plot and plan terror attacks and Christian evangelists abusing religious writings to support Jewish extremism?

    • ziusudra
      October 28, 2013, 5:21 am

      Greetings kayq,
      Someone please tell me again what diff. betw. Muslims & Christian extremists abusing religious writings…..

      None.
      An old Sage once quipped, extremists on the left or right, are As….holes!
      Clint Eastwood
      ziusudra

    • NickJOCW
      October 28, 2013, 11:26 am

      Hello kayq , None whatsoever. All religious beliefs, however widely entertained, are isolated from reason. Many such beliefs may in some sense be valid, that is to say true, but their truth cannot be derived from within the religion since any effort to do that only results in a self-referential loop. In that sense there is no difference between any of them except, of course, when they attempt to leave their loops and invade the world of reason, then they can be harmful, and usually become so in time. I think the reason is that, unlike scientific beliefs, religious beliefs are assumed to be carved in granite and thus able to resist evolutionary modification, a characteristic that matters not at all within their loops but makes them increasingly alien in the world outside them.

  17. HarryLaw
    October 28, 2013, 8:57 am

    Looking at that picture of the two Christians for Zionism, reminded me of an episode in Northern Ireland in the early nineteen eighties, then I was campaigning for a small group of socialists and Trade Unionists based in NI, that campaign was for the British Labour Party to organize and contest elections in every constituency in NI as it’s own rule book said it should, and to give British citizens resident in NI of whatever religious denomination and non the elementary right to vote for or against the party that actually governs them at Westminster. During our campaign an evangelical procession passed us and I turned to my friend Jeffrey Dudgeon and said ” their eyes all seem to be glazed over, he replied “yes, just like ours”.

    • just
      October 28, 2013, 9:17 am

      Thanks for that, Harry.

      Those CZ harvesters give an entirely new meaning to “Grapes of Wrath”.

      ““and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.”
      ― John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath”

  18. W.Jones
    October 28, 2013, 12:45 pm

    This music video does not even mention Jesus once.

  19. Ludwig
    October 28, 2013, 2:13 pm

    Thank you 1000x for the support of the Xtian community. Bless you!

  20. LanceThruster
    October 28, 2013, 2:14 pm

    WWJD (What Would Jeebus Do)?

    Blessed are the thieves, for they shall inherit the “disputed territories.”

  21. W.Jones
    October 28, 2013, 6:36 pm

    BBC interview with how the settlers look at this, at 37:30:

  22. ykohen
    October 30, 2013, 12:49 pm

    G-d bless the Wallers and those who join them in their holy work!

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