Netanyahu delivers predictable speech fear-mongering on Iran

Israel/PalestineMiddle EastUS Politics
on 193 Comments
A word cloud for Benjamin Netanyahu's UN speech.

A word cloud for Benjamin Netanyahu’s UN speech.

This year at the United Nations General Assembly, there were no props of drawings with red lines on them. But aside from that, nothing much had changed in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s address to diplomats. The Israeli prime minister kept hammering away at what has become an utterly predictable point: Iran is on the verge of obtaining nuclear weapons and they pose an existential threat to Israel. He opened up his speech with a reference to a “nuclear-armed Iran that seeks our destruction.”

Netanyahu’s speech was all about the Islamic Republic, and it was filled with the typical rhetorical flourishes the world has come to expect. “Rouhani thinks he can have his yellowcake and eat it too,” the prime minister said. He hit the familiar points: the Holocaust; the scourge of anti-Semitism; Iran’s sponsorship of overseas violence; and a demand for the Islamic Republic to capitulate to Israeli demands. You can watch it all here:

Haaretz‘s Barak Ravid aptly called the speech “tired, bothersome and boring.”

What was different this time was that Iranian President Hassan Rouhani had come to town the week before, and had wowed diplomats with a conciliatory message. Gone was Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s questioning of the Holocaust, his insinuation that 9/11 was an American plot. Instead, Rouhani came with a message that his country was not developing nuclear weapons, and was ready for negotiations with the West and the U.S. Last Thursday, Secretary of State John Kerry met face to face with the Iranian foreign minister, and then the historic phone call between President Obama and Rouhani took place on Friday.

So Netanyahu came to spoil the positive atmosphere, and he didn’t disappoint. He clearly wishes Ahmadinejad was still in power. “Israel will never acquiesce to nuclear arms in the hands of a rogue regime that repeatedly promises to wipe us off the map. Against such a threat, Israel will have no choice but to defend itself,” he said.

He had four demands for Iran, which amount to a total cave-in that the country is never going to accept:

First, cease all uranium enrichment. This is called for by several Security Council resolutions. Second, remove from Iran’s territory the stockpiles of enriched uranium. Third, dismantle the infrastructure for nuclear breakout capability, including the underground facility at Qom and the advanced centrifuges in Natanz.

And, four, stop all work at the heavy water reactor in Iraq aimed at the production of plutonium. These steps would put an end to Iran’s nuclear weapons program and eliminate its breakout capability.

And Netanyahu had demands for a different audience: the rest of the world. Here’s what he wants them to do:

First, keep up the sanctions. If Iran advances its nuclear weapons program during negotiations, strengthen the sanctions.

Second, don’t agree to a partial deal. A partial deal would lift international sanctions that have taken years to put in place in exchange for cosmetic concessions that will take only weeks for Iran to reverse.

Third, lift the sanctions only when Iran fully dismantles its nuclear weapons program. My friends, the international community has Iran on the ropes. If you want to knock out Iran’s nuclear weapons program peacefully, don’t let up the pressure. Keep it up.

Netanyahu eventually got to the Palestinians, but only devoted about 20 lines to them. He repeated his demand that “Palestinians must finally recognize the Jewish state, and Israel’s security needs must be met.”

The Israeli leader may be more comfortable talking about Iran than Palestine, but this year he was boxed in to a corner by the new Iranian leadership. Still, his words carry immense weight in the U.S., and they will hang over the air of future talks between Iran and the West.

193 Responses

  1. BillM
    October 1, 2013, 5:58 pm

    Good summary, though I think the overall tone was as important as his specific demands.

    Netanyahu had not a single positive word for anyone. The speech was 100% Iran and 100% negative. The fabrications were obvious (Iran building ICBMs to “strike this very city”), of course, but more than that was the simple unending flow of hatred. The speech also highlighted how Netanyahu views the UN and the international community at large: it is solely a tool used for smiting his enemies, and if it fails in that then it is worthless and Israel will act “alone.” Strangest of all, it ended with weird messianism, talking of prophecies fulfilled and enternal states. That was completely off the deep end (unless the target was American evangelicals, which it likely was).

    Quick game: An international leader repeatedly goes to the UN solely to denounce a single other country, making threats and pouring out hatred in religious terms. Who was it? A year ago, one might have answered Ahmadinejad. Today, Netanyahu easily claims the crown.

    • talknic
      October 1, 2013, 9:51 pm

      @ BillM ” An international leader repeatedly goes to the UN solely to denounce a single other country, making threats and pouring out hatred in religious terms. Who was it? A year ago, one might have answered Ahmadinejad. “

      What part of Ahmadinejad’s speech?

    • Bumblebye
      October 2, 2013, 8:34 am

      He shoulda gone there wearing sandwich boards stating
      Repent!
      The end is nigh!
      Then he wouldn’t have neded to open his stupid mouth.

  2. crone
    October 1, 2013, 6:00 pm

    The speech was highly inflammatory… not a diplomatic bone in this man’s body.

    NYTimes had a very small piece on his speech, which was overshadowed by the Shutdown coverage I am sure.

    Obama needs to remember that we live in a small world now… whatever he says to Bibi to ‘reassure’ him is of course passed along to the rest of the world. Earlier on his Twitter account, Mr. Zarif alluded to the Obama-Netanyahu meeting on Monday in a message that read: “President Obama needs consistency to promote mutual confidence. Flip-flop destroys trust and undermines US credibility.”

    I’m interested in knowing how many were present for the speech, which was the last iirc… surely everyone had gone home.

  3. Bandolero
    October 1, 2013, 6:03 pm

    What I found most interesting in Netanyahu’s speech was that while Rouhani said the time of the tribal feuds is over, Netanyahu presented himself as the leader of the tribe of the Maccabees in a tribal bloodfeud of biblical proportions with the tribe of the Persians:

    “What a disgrace, what a disgrace. The descendants of the Macabees lie in the mud powerless to defend themselves.” … Together we’ve transformed a bludgeoned Jewish people, left for dead, into a vibrant, thriving nation, a defending itself with the courage of modern Maccabees, developing limitless possibilities for the future. In our time the Biblical prophecies are being realized.

    I’m not sure how the feeling of others is, but my view is that fighting tribal bloodfeuds in the 21. century doesn’t sound statesman-like, to me, it sounds more like archaic and medieval madness.

    • Kathleen
      October 1, 2013, 9:41 pm

      “archaic and medieval madness” And this strategy seems to keep working. Playing on the myths and superstitions. Always so amazing to me that somewhat educated people believe in this Biblical schmlical hooey.

      His speech was filled with hatred, false claims, mis translations and threats

  4. Sycamores
    October 1, 2013, 6:19 pm

    predictable, well that goes without saying. maybe it was just my imagination but i couldn’t help thinking the way he kept furtively raising his eyes to the audience to see was there anyone actually taking in his BS, in fact most of the audience look bored out of their minds.
    the applause at the end was the lamest i ever seen, besides the few israelis clapping was there anyone else?

  5. mcohen
    October 1, 2013, 6:34 pm

    “A word cloud”

    I squeezed and squagged with vigour no less
    the assembled before me political mess
    had it it all locked up tight ,sealed in lead
    when out the top genie popped head
    words of thunder escaped up into the air
    formed dark clouds of heavy despair
    on the horizon they slowly gathered
    the word charade easily shattered

    mcohen

  6. just
    October 1, 2013, 6:42 pm

    Send this miscreant to the Hague!

    How dare he dictate to Iran and the rest of the world when he and his wittle country have not even declared their nukes, nor signed the NPT.

    “Third, lift the sanctions only when Iran fully dismantles its nuclear weapons program. My friends, the international community has Iran on the ropes. If you want to knock out Iran’s nuclear weapons program peacefully, don’t let up the pressure. Keep it up.”

    BDS this liar and his nutso followers NOW. Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program”.

    Iran is not “on the ropes”, Israel is. And his disrespect toward the INDIGENOUS people of Palestine should be severely dealt with.

    • Annie Robbins
      October 1, 2013, 7:06 pm

      just , i noticed he said “nuclear weapons program” 15 times in the speech.

      • Kathleen
        October 1, 2013, 9:44 pm

        great count.

        Can it get any more insane to have a leader of a country that sits on massive stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemicals demanding that Iran a signatory of the NPT stop enriching uranium up to the level that they are legally able.

        Netanyahu is sickening

      • kalithea
        October 1, 2013, 11:29 pm

        Yeah he thinks that if he repeats it enough others will start referring to it as such and it’ll ring true, and he uses the same strategy with his repetitive insistence on “Jewish State”.

  7. Walker
    October 1, 2013, 7:07 pm

    I saw the BBC clip on this. It was a hoot. As Netanyahu took the podium there was a distinct smattering of warm applause. This was mystifying, because all of the delegates I could see were sitting on their hands. Then the camera panned to the back of the hall. There were a small bunch of guys standing against the rear wall clapping like crazy.

    • just
      October 1, 2013, 7:35 pm

      Was Sammy Power hanging on to his every lie while drooling in gleeful admiration?

    • Kathleen
      October 1, 2013, 9:45 pm

      Do you have a link to that?

      • talknic
        October 1, 2013, 10:59 pm

        @ Kathleen link to youtu.be

      • Kathleen
        October 1, 2013, 11:02 pm

        It had to be embarrassing that so few people clapped. Definitely telling

      • seafoid
        October 2, 2013, 4:20 am

        The wandering Jew has become the warmongering Jew. I think most people preferred the original version.

      • Egbert
        October 2, 2013, 6:40 am

        Wasn’t one of them his wife Sara? That’s a bit like having your mom come to a school event and clapping louder than everyone else no matter how bad you were!

      • Walker
        October 2, 2013, 9:40 am

        Wasn’t one of them his wife Sara?

        Apparently, yes.

        The NY Times naturally omits the actual reception of Netanyahu’s speech, but Haaretz’s Barak Ravid was not so bashful. The following excerpt is courtesy of War in Context:

        One by one, Netanyahu’s donors, associates and supporters flocked in to watch. Casino magnate and owner of the Hebrew daily Yisrael Hayom, Sheldon Adelson, was followed by American-Jewish attorney Alan Dershowitz, former advisor Dore Gold, family friend Zeev Rubinstein and others. Last to enter was Sara Netanyahu, who took her place near the podium. When Netanyahu made his entrance, in front of a half-empty, drowsy hall, his friends, advisors, supporters and entourage all rose to their feet and applauded for several minutes. Still, the fans the in stands hardly helped. . .

      • hophmi
        October 2, 2013, 3:30 pm

        “It had to be embarrassing that so few people clapped. Definitely telling”

        The UN’s not a friendly place for Israelis. It is a friendly place for Saudi Arabians, Iranians, and other human rights abusers.

      • Shingo
        October 3, 2013, 1:14 am

        The UN’s not a friendly place for Israelis.

        The same went for Saddam and Qaddafi. At like a rogue, pariah state and you’ll be treated like one.

      • just
        October 3, 2013, 9:35 pm

        Yeah hop– the UN represents the WORLD.

        It’s not the bought/paid for US Congress at all.

      • eljay
        October 3, 2013, 9:38 pm

        >> The UN’s not a friendly place for Israelis. It is a friendly place for Saudi Arabians, Iranians, and other human rights abusers.

        In other words, the U.N. is a friendly place for Israel. “Birds of a feather” and all that good stuff…

      • Talkback
        October 4, 2013, 6:45 am

        seafoid says: The wandering Jew has become the warmongering Jew. I think most people preferred the original version.”

        The “wandering Jew” started as an antisemitic myth.

      • Talkback
        October 4, 2013, 6:51 am

        hophmi says: “The UN’s not a friendly place for Israelis. ”

        Yeah, it’s not a friend of international law abusers, expansionalists, expellers AND human rights abusers since 1945. Any clue why?

      • seafoid
        October 2, 2013, 4:19 am
    • kalithea
      October 1, 2013, 11:19 pm

      That was the Zionist delegation.

    • eGuard
      October 2, 2013, 6:37 am

      The BBC report was Israels report: Israel stands firm against Iran nuclear threat. (what threat? sexing up?)

      link to bbc.co.uk

      Jeremy Bowen correctly said that “if not … there will be another Middle East war”, but did not get that this was an Israeli promise.

  8. DICKERSON3870
    October 1, 2013, 7:36 pm

    RE: “He [Netanyahu] had four demands for Iran, which amount to a total cave-in. . .” ~ Alex Kane

    MY COMMENT: In other words, Netanyahu insists that Iran be a “frayer”*! ! !

    FROM quora.com:

    [EXCERPTS] There is one correct definition of the term frayer. It means “sucker” or “mark,” in the sense that somebody is a sucker if he goes along with the rules when nobody else is following them, or a mark if he’s a naive target for thieves. . .
    . . . In Israeli life and society, the worst thing anybody can ever be is a frayer, and most people will do anything and everything they can at all times to avoid being a frayer. The only way to be certain at any given moment that you are not a frayer is to make somebody else a frayer.

    SOURCE – link to quora.com

    * SEE: James’ Journey to Jerusalem (Massa’ot James Be’eretz Hakodesh), 2004, NR, 87 minutes
    In the imaginary village of Entshongweni [probably somewhere in Africa], far from western civilization, young James is chosen to undertake a mission — a pilgrimage to holy Jerusalem. But Israel is no longer the Holy Land that James and his people imagined. When he’s suspected of trying to infiltrate the country to work illegally, James’s journey takes him through the cruel heart of our [i.e., Israel’s] economic system, as he learns the tricks of the game [how to avoid becoming a “frayer”] and plays it toward an inevitable end.
    Director: Ra’anan Alexandrowicz
    Language: Hebrew (with English subtitles)
    Netflix format: DVD
    Netflix listing – link to dvd.netflix.com
    IMDb – link to imdb.com
    Massa’ot James Be’eretz Hakodesh (2003) – movie trailer [VIDEO, 01:38] – link to youtube.com

    • DICKERSON3870
      October 1, 2013, 7:47 pm

      P.S. RE: “There is one correct definition of the term frayer. It means ‘sucker’ or ‘mark’, in the sense that somebody is a sucker if he goes along with the rules when nobody else is following them . . .” ~ quora.com (from above)

      FOR INSTANCE, CONSIDER ISRAEL’S DUPLICITY REGARDING ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM:
      “How Israel Out-Foxed US Presidents”, By Morgan Strong (A Special Report), ConsortiumNews.com, 5/31/10

      [EXCERPT]
      ● Secret Nukes and JFK
      . . . Even as it backed down in the Sinai [following its invasion in 1956], Israel was involved in another monumental deception, a plan for building its own nuclear arsenal.
      In 1956, Israel had concluded an agreement with France to build a nuclear reactor in the Negev desert. Israel also signed a secret agreement with France to build an adjacent plutonium reprocessing plant.

      Israel began constructing its nuclear plant in 1958. However, French President Charles de Gaulle was worried about nuclear weapons destabilizing the Middle East and insisted that Israel not develop a nuclear bomb from the plutonium processing plant. Prime Minister Ben-Gurion assured de Gaulle that the processing plant was for peaceful purposes only.
      After John F. Kennedy became President, he also wrote to Ben-Gurion explicitly calling on Israel not to join the nuclear-weapons club, drawing another pledge from Ben-Gurion that Israel had no such intention.
      Nevertheless, Kennedy continued to press, forcing the Israelis to let U.S. scientists inspect the nuclear reactor at Dimona. But the Israelis first built a fake control room while bricking up and otherwise disguising parts of the building that housed the plutonium processing plant.
      In return for allowing inspectors into Dimona, Ben-Gurion also demanded that the United States sell Hawk surface-to-air missiles to the Israeli military. Kennedy agreed to the sale as a show of good faith.
      Subsequently, however, the CIA got wind of the Dimona deception and leaked to the press that Israel was secretly building a nuclear bomb.
      After Kennedy’s assassination, President Lyndon Johnson also grew concerned over Israel’s acquiring nuclear weapons. He asked then-Prime Minister Levi Eshkol to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
      Eshkol assured Johnson that Israel was studying the matter and would sign the treaty in due course. However, Israel has never signed the treaty
      and never has admitted that it developed nuclear weapons. [For details, See “Israel and The Bomb” by Avner Cohen.] . . .

      ENTIRE REPORT – link to consortiumnews.com

      • Walid
        October 1, 2013, 8:33 pm

        Is electricity at least produced there, or is simply a weapons producing facility?

      • DICKERSON3870
        October 1, 2013, 9:08 pm

        No electricity. Only “research”!

      • Walid
        October 1, 2013, 9:27 pm

        Thanks, Dickerson.

      • Rusty Pipes
        October 1, 2013, 9:29 pm

        It’s a “textile factory” where they weave a fabric of lies, or maybe just an extra-special cloth for Emperor Bibi which none of the MSM is allowed to mention doesn’t even hide the nuclear trigger he stole from us.

      • Bumblebye
        October 2, 2013, 8:26 am

        And from said fabric, they make those wonderfully fine, almost invisible suits for the Emp… er Prez of the Newnited States!

  9. fnlevit
    October 1, 2013, 7:37 pm

    One must admit (some grudgingly, some with satisfaction) that the fact that the crowd here and in US and in Europe (I checked BBC and RT) and in Iran (shown on local TV here) and all over watches and comments every single word of this not so impressive guy is a big victory of his and Israel. He didn’t let go, insisted and insisted and the world finally listened and tighten up the sanctions and forced Iran to change its tactics. One cannot deny it. He (Israel) caused the fall down of Ahmadinejad whom I am sure you here greeted last year and expressed similar derision to Bibi. But he (and Israel) is meanwhile winning.

    So what Natanyahu is doing now (again we shall see if this is right in the way he is doing it) is to keep the pressure up and the momentum going and not letting Iranians escape the trap they are in.

    If they do not have nuclear bomb program – they can (and could in the past) prove it in no time by letting the inspectors in. The fact that they went so long willing to absorb the effects of the sanctions does not seem to go well with the thesis that they are innocent.

    And another aspect – it is amazing to see again and again how leaders of such dark regime violating all possible human rights in the worst possible manner
    (see e. g. link to amnesty.org.
    is so much tended to and even loved by the crowd here. Just because this dark regime is anti Israel. Don’t you have second thoughts at where this Israel bashing takes you? Not much to be proud off, heh?

    • Shingo
      October 3, 2013, 2:10 am

      One must admit (some grudgingly, some with satisfaction) that the fact that the crowd here and in US and in Europe (I checked BBC and RT) and in Iran (shown on local TV here) and all over watches and comments every single word of this not so impressive guy is a big victory of his and Israel.

      Why should admit to something that is clearly false?

      He didn’t let go, insisted and insisted and the world finally listened and tighten up the sanctions and forced Iran to change its tactics.

      That has been a demonstrable failure, seeing as Iran has not changed it’s tactics one iota. They are still pursuing their nuclear program as they were before the sanctions were imposed. And most of those sanctions are not UN sanctions, but unilateral US sanctions that the US has imposed by threatening other states to comply with.

      So one can most certainly deny it.

      Bibbi had nothing to do with the end of Ahmadinejad’s term as president. Under Iran’s laws, presidents are limited to 2 terms. So Biibi can’t even pretend that was a victory.

      Based on the fact that everyone has panned Bibbi’s speech as impotent and irrelevant, Israel has clearly lost. As MJ Rosenberg pointed out Netenyahu has been a monumental failure and has clarified yet again who he is and why history is passing him by.

      In fact, the fact that 76 – 85% of Americans polled favor diplomacy with Iran over military action, proves Netenyau has lost the debate. Diplomacy is clearly not what he wants and he made his intend to derail diplomacy clear before he set off for Washington.

      So what Natanyahu is doing now (again we shall see if this is right in the way he is doing it) is to keep the pressure up and the momentum going and not letting Iranians escape the trap they are in.

      I know how much you must vhave struggled to write that lame a pathetic sentence, given that you clearly do not believe a word of it, based on your defensive and half hearted defense of the criticism of Bibbi’s speech you posted earlier.

      If they do not have nuclear bomb program – they can (and could in the past) prove it in no time by letting the inspectors in.

      Inspectors have been in Iran for a decade. Both US and Israeli intelligence agree that Iran has not even decided to produce a nuke, so we already know they do not have nuclear bomb program. In fact, even Netehyahu has said Iran does not have one, so you are clearly going out on a limb all on your own.

      The fact that they went so long willing to absorb the effects of the sanctions does not seem to go well with the thesis that they are innocent.

      On the contrary. The fact that the sanctions are not based on facts or evidence, but speculation and that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program proves they are. Every NIE and testimony from the Director of US Intelligence to the Senate
      have repeatedly stated that Iran is innocent.

      The purpose of the sanctions is not to stop Iran producing a nuke, but to destroy the country and make sue that it does not rival Israel’s regional dominance. Nothing more.

      And another aspect – it is amazing to see again and again how leaders of such dark regime violating all possible human rights in the worst possible manner

      It’s far from the worst possible manner and in the same league as Israel’s violations.
      link to amnesty.org.il

      Israel is fascist, apartheid criminal state, and it’s sinking president and popularity reflects that. The only country where Israel enjoys popular support is the US.

      Not much to be proud off, heh?

    • Talkback
      October 4, 2013, 7:02 am

      One must admit (some grudgingly, some with satisfaction) that the fact that the crowd here and in US and in Europe (I checked BBC and RT) and in Iran (shown on local TV here) and all over watches and comments every single word of this not so impressive guy is a big victory of his and Israel.

      In that case yay I ask which speech in history was a big victory for which warmongerer and Germany?

      “And another aspect – it is amazing to see again and again how leaders of such dark regime violating all possible human rights in the worst possible manner is so much tended to and even loved by the crowd here.”

      For a moment I thought you were talking about Israel and its American support. Especially because you linked to Amnesty International. But it’s an article about post election violence in Iran. And it reminded me of the fact that the dark Apartheid regime in historic Palestine massacred and still keeps people expelled to prevent them from voting. I’m sure you are very proud off this.

  10. ToivoS
    October 1, 2013, 7:44 pm

    I still find it hard to believe that Netanyahoo is leading Israel. Every time he opens his mouth he isolates Israel even further. There can’t be a nation in the world that has any respect for Israel at this point other than those led by politicans provided with huge lobby contributions. He has to be the poster child for the BDS campaign. He is the gift that keeps on giving.

    I didn’t listen to the speech but there was something that seems to be missing and that was a threat to unilaterally attack Iran if they refused his demands. Maybe he finally realized that that bluff lost any traction it may have had at one time .

    • DICKERSON3870
      October 1, 2013, 10:03 pm

      RE: “I didn’t listen to the speech but there was something that seems to be missing and that was a threat to unilaterally attack Iran if they refused his demands.” ~ ToivoS

      THE CLOSEST BIBI “KING DAVID*” NETANYAHU CAME TO THREATENING A UNILATERAL ATTACK ON IRAN:
      “I want there to be no confusion on this point. Israel will not allow Iran to get nuclear weapons. If Israel is forced to stand alone, Israel will stand alone. Yet in standing alone, Israel will know that we will be defending many, many others,” Netanyahu said. [In other words, Israel is willing to attack (i.e., “wield the sword of David” against**) Iran all alone.]

      * SEE: “Netanyahu’s ‘King David’ Complex”, by Paul Pillar, Consortium News, 4/02/12

      [EXCERPTS] . . . A former Likud activist who has become a critic of Netanyahu explains, “Bibi is a messianist. He believes with all his soul and every last molecule of his being that he — I don’t quite know how to express it — is King David.”**
      It is not in a superpower’s interest to get sucked into projects of someone with a King David complex. . .
      . . . If it [the U.S.] does not escape a war, it will be hard to find any silver lining in the consequences. But perhaps one would be that Americans would then be more likely to understand how contrary to their own interests it has been to follow the preferences of the Israeli government. Perhaps that could be a first step toward a more normal — and more beneficial for the United States — U.S. relationship with Israel. . .

      ENTIRE COMMENTARY – link to digg.com

      * * ALSO SEE – “Bibi: Israel Will Raise ‘David’s Sword’ Against Iran”, By Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 9/28/11

      [EXCERPTS] . . . But the most interesting and frightening element of the interview was his [Netanyahu’s] comments about Iran. Other reporters have been noting that Bibi lately has been waxing apocalyptic and mystical about the possibly oncoming war with Iran. In this interview he says:
      Iran’s nuclear programs are turning it into an existential danger to the State of Israel.
      The question is not just what Israel is doing to stop it, but what the world is doing. The awareness by the world community that Iran is progressing on a track toward developing a nuclear weapon obligates it to act so that Iran does not get this weapon. With every day that passes, Iran gets closer. The obligation of the international community to act grows as the fear [that Iran progresses toward a bomb] does.
      You must keep in mind: that we aspire toward peace; but at the same time we must wield the sword of David to defend the Jewish State.

      Of course, in Bibi’s skewed world-view, David’s sword was raised only to defend his people, not in aggression against a victim. But we should keep in mind that David’s sword slew an Israelite enemy and led to the killer’s annointment as King of Israel. . .
      . . . Bibi (and to a lesser extent, Barak) have a very complicated complex that is little short of messianic and frightening. In the past, I’ve written dismissively about Bibi saying he has no principles and that even his so-called Jewish values appear to be manufactured. Now, I’m not so sure. And I don’t know which is worse, a megalomaniac with no principles or values; or a Jewish megalomaniac with religious-nationalist principles and values. They both scare the living hell out of me. . .

      ENTIRE COMMENTARY – link to richardsilverstein.com

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 2, 2013, 1:40 am

      oh, I’m not. He’s a bigoted, dimwitted, murderous, evil, buffoon of a man leading a state of like qualities.

  11. DICKERSON3870
    October 1, 2013, 7:46 pm
  12. RoHa
    October 1, 2013, 7:54 pm

    [Yawn]

  13. justicewillprevail
    October 1, 2013, 8:10 pm

    Yahoo is up the creek without a paddle. All of the tiresome, predictable cliches were there in abundance, but all he does is draw attention to his and Israel’s lack of any sense of reality about the world outside their lurid cartoon imagery. Most people will have noticed how his empty rhetoric could be applied far more accurately to his own country: fake offers of peace, sponsoring terrorism, committed to the destruction of a country, a nuclear programme which it denies, religious intolerance etc etc. I think at this point most diplomats and observers shuffle their feet, look away and hurry off to other appointments as the embarrassing uncle makes a fool of himself once again at the top table. Tiptoe around him, don’t provoke him, and hope he goes away quickly. Then we can get back to business.

    • Annie Robbins
      October 1, 2013, 11:09 pm

      yep, that’s kinda my take on it jwp.

      • justicewillprevail
        October 2, 2013, 6:14 am

        The funny thing is that cartoon bomb of last year has become the defining image of Yahoo speaking to the world. I have seen it printed again for this speech, as well as providing rich pickings for would-be comedians everywhere. Images are remembered long after people have forgotten the words – in this respect the Israeli propaganda machine’s decision to use the stunt was justified, except that it has had the exact opposite effect of the one intended. Instead of absorbing some message about Iran and the bomb, the universal impression is of a slightly demented leader with a Warner Bros cartoon idea of world politics, like a disturbed down-and-out on the street with a home-made placard yelling at you about some unfathomable obsession of theirs, and who might explode at any moment. Way to go, all you well paid media geniuses in Israel.

        BTW, talking of pigs, lipstick and other comparisons of the effectiveness of Israel’s PR, I wonder did Bibi have his makeup on:

        The commentator Shimon Shiffer said: “A week ago I asked one of the new ministers what surprised him most about the cabinet meetings. What surprised me, replied the minister, was that Netanyahu comes to every meeting and discussion heavily made-up. When I looked into the matter, said the minister, I learned that a pair of hairdressers and makeup artists apply themselves every morning to the prime minister and his wife’s faces and hair.”

        link to guardian.co.uk

        lol

      • marc b.
        October 2, 2013, 10:10 am

        justice, it appears to me that yahoo has had a bit of cosmetic work. parts of his face, particularly above his permanently arched left eye brow, have that frozen quality that results from nerve damage associated with plastic surgery.

  14. RudyM
    October 1, 2013, 8:21 pm

    his insinuation that 9/11 was an American plot

    That 9/11 was at least largely an American plot (I’m willing to leave room for Israeli culpability as well) is a truth that needs to be repeated until the lie ends, however imprudent it may be for an Iranian leader to be the bearer of that particular truth.

  15. Elliot
    October 1, 2013, 8:24 pm

    I switched off after this opening: “I feel deeply honored and privileged to stand before you today representing the people of the State of Israel. We are an ancient people, dating back 4,000 years to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob etc”

    There you have Israeli apartheid proudly displayed at the UN. The State of Israel is for Jews only. Palestinians are invisible.

    • Kathleen
      October 1, 2013, 10:00 pm

      “a Jewish state” For years it was Palestinians must recognize Israel as a legal state. Now Palestinians have to recognize Israel as a “Jewish state” Racist at its very core.

      • RoHa
        October 1, 2013, 10:39 pm

        And if they recognize it as a “Jewish state”, the Israelis will then demand that they recognize it as the One True Democracy In The Middle East or some such. The demands will never cease.

      • Hostage
        October 2, 2013, 12:45 am

        And if they recognize it as a “Jewish state”, the Israelis will then demand that they recognize it as the One True Democracy In The Middle East or some such.

        You’re getting the cart ahead of the horse. How can we be certain that Israel isn’t merely a “pseudo-Jewish” state or national home without a working legal definition?

        I’ve pointed-out many times in the past that the UNSCOP and UN Ad Hoc Committee concluded that the term “Jewish national home” had no known legal connotation and that there were no precedents in international law for its interpretation. The passage of time hasn’t altered that situation. See:
        * Livni appoints professor to resolve issue of Israel’s Jewish and democratic identity link to jpost.com
        * Prof. Gavison to resolve Israeli ‘Jewish-Democratic’ issue
        link to ynetnews.com

        So we have an Israel Prize winner trying to define what the f*ck the Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty and Declaration of Independence are supposed to mean in light of all this “Jewish” business.

        The smart money says that “grass will be growing” in Gavison’s cheeks long before the Knesset Law and Constitution Committee (the constituent assembly for applied infinite monkey theorem) ever stops arguing about the meaning of the terms “Jewish” and “constitution”.

    • Sammar
      October 2, 2013, 1:36 am

      “I feel deeply honored and privileged to stand before you today representing the people of the State of Israel. We are an ancient people, dating back 4,000 years to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob etc”

      There you have Israeli apartheid proudly displayed at the UN. The State of Israel is for Jews only. Palestinians are invisible.”

      That may have been his intention – but do the Palestinians as Arabs not also date back 4000 years to Abraham? Besides the fact that many of the Palestinians may be original Jews that converted to Islam centuries ago? What is the claim to Israel based on – ethnicity or religion? In both cases the claim stands on weak legs.

      • Walid
        October 2, 2013, 6:24 am

        “but do the Palestinians as Arabs not also date back 4000 years to Abraham?

        Sammar, original Palestinians and Lebanese go back even farther than the Hebrew Abraham. They are rooted in the Canaanites that arrived in the area long before the Hebrews arrived to ethnically cleanse it of its Canaanites, Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites under divine and Mosaic commandments to do so. Today history is repeating itself:

        … God had the Israelites kill countless thousands, perhaps millions, of people throughout the land of Canaan. It was genocide in the sense that it was a planned, systematic, limited extermination of a number of nation states from a relatively small area in the Middle East (cf. “Genocide,” 2000; cf. also “Genocide,” 2012). But, it was not a war against a particular race (from the Greek genos) or ethnic group. Nor were the Israelites commanded to pursue and kill the Canaanite nations if they fled from Israel’s Promised Land. The Israelites were to drive out and dispossess the nations of their land (killing all who resisted the dispossession), but they were not instructed to annihilate a particular race or ethnic group from the face of the Earth.

        link to apologeticspress.org

      • Hostage
        October 2, 2013, 11:09 am

        but they were not instructed to annihilate a particular race or ethnic group from the face of the Earth.

        Except of course for the Amalekites.

      • eljay
        October 2, 2013, 11:20 am

        >> link to apologeticspress.org

        Hard to tell whether or not that site is satirical. The linked-to article ends with this bizarre paragraph:

        Though the enemies of the God of the Bible are frequently heard criticizing Israel’s conquest of Canaan, the fact is, such a conquest was in complete harmony with God’s perfectly loving, holy, and righteous nature. After patiently waiting for hundreds of years, God eventually used the Israelites to bring judgment upon myriads of wicked Canaanites. Simultaneously, He spared their children a fate much worse than physical death—the horror of growing up in a reprehensible culture and becoming like their hedonistic parents—and immediately ushered them into a pain-free, marvelous place called Paradise (Luke 16:19-31; 23:43).

      • Talkback
        October 4, 2013, 7:05 am

        Hostage says: “Except of course for the Amalekites.”

        In other words, enemies of Israel in general. Starting with Palestinians and ending with Iranians.

    • justicewillprevail
      October 2, 2013, 11:34 am

      Human beings are an ‘ancient people’, all of whose roots go back a lot longer than 4,000 years. So your point, Bibi, is what? Certainly, I am sure you have ancient Eastern European roots, like many immigrants into Israel, but I don’t hear you bigging that up, Mr Milikovsky. Perhaps you should stake a claim to Gondwanaland, or Pangea, where dinosaurs like you like to roam.

  16. eljay
    October 1, 2013, 8:27 pm

    >> There you have Israeli apartheid proudly displayed at the UN. The State of Israel is for Jews only. Palestinians are invisible.

    Supremacist “Jewish State”.

  17. Kathleen
    October 1, 2013, 9:34 pm

    Netanyahu “we must focus on Iran’s actions.”

    We must focus closely on Israel’s actions. The FACTS ARE:
    1. They have massive stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons that go un inspected by the international community
    2. Israel has and continues to refuse to sign the International Atomic Energy Agencies Non Proliferation Treaty. Does not get any more hypocritical or absurd that a country loaded up with nuclear weapons is pointing at a nation who signed the NPT and allows inspections.

    3. Netanyahu is one of the biggest hypocrites wrapped in hypocrites words and clothing. Creepy..really creepy

  18. Kathleen
    October 1, 2013, 9:58 pm

    Not much clapping at all. Folks are sick and tired of this hatred, mis-translated comments, chest beating, lies out of a nation loaded up with weapons that go undeclared and un inspected. Tired of the persistent warmongering that constantly comes out of Israel and the U.S. Enough!

    Israel sign the NPT. Open your doors up to international inspections!

  19. talknic
    October 1, 2013, 10:09 pm

    OMG Netanyahu is pathetic. Does he think he’s talking to children?

    All eyes looking elsewhere at 31m29s

    • DICKERSON3870
      October 1, 2013, 10:20 pm

      RE: “Netanyahu is pathetic. Does he think he’s talking to children?” ~ talknic

      MY COMMENT: BiBi “King David” Netanyahu considers himself to be talking to dimwitted “inferiors” (i.e., mere mortals)! ! !

      • DICKERSON3870
        October 1, 2013, 10:40 pm

        P.S. RE: “BiBi ‘King David’ Netanyahu considers himself to be talking to dimwitted ‘inferiors’ (i.e., mere mortals)! ! !” – me above

        THE “BETTER HALF” OF THE ROYAL COUPLE MIGHT WELL BE “QUEEN SARA”! ! !
        “Former employee sues Sara Netanyahu”, by Tsach Shpitsen, YnetNews.com, 1/15/10

        [EXCERPT] “Sara Netanyahu abused me, paid me less than minimum wage, didn’t pay my social benefits, forced me to work Saturdays even though I observe Shabbat, and forced me to call her ‘Mrs. Sara Netanyahu’,” these are just some of the allegations Lillian, a former housekeeper for the Netanyahu family in their Caesarea residence, made against the prime minister’s wife.
        In a claim filed with the Tel Aviv Regional Labor Court by her lawyers Asaf Sharaf and Shai Lavi, Lillian recounts her version of experiences during her six years working for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s wife.
        According to the claim: “The relationship (with Sara Netanyahu) constantly came with a line of humiliation and a hostile atmosphere both at work and outside of work. For example, after Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu was elected prime minister, Lillian was not allowed to call the defendant by her first name, but was to call her, ‘Mrs. Sara Netanyahu’.
        “And if she was to make an innocent mistake, out of belief that this was a personal relationship, Netanyahu would shout at her for daring to call her by her first name since, ‘I am a person of authority, and every one of my household staff must respect me and call me by my title, Mrs. Sara Netanyahu.'”
        The claim continues to say that “Sara Netanyahu would adorn herself in her feathers and shout aloud: ‘This is my beautiful house, and I am the mother of the State of Israel.’ . . .

        ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to ynetnews.com

      • DICKERSON3870
        October 1, 2013, 11:03 pm

        P.P.S. Here is a likeness of Her Royal Majesty, Queen Sara Netanyahu.
        Source – link to pivenworld.com

        P.P.P.S. Here is a quite revealing photo of Queen Sara.

    • MRW
      October 2, 2013, 4:07 am

      No one clapped except the private group on the side with his wife, and she was the one who stood and clapped even with that group so that the ones around her followed. The GA didn’t clap.

  20. NickJOCW
    October 1, 2013, 10:17 pm

    In Godfather II Al Pacino has the line: Never hate your enemies, it clouds your judgement.

    • Theo
      October 2, 2013, 11:57 am

      Recently I read the following:
      “Those who hate are punished more than those who are hated, because the haters must live 24 hours a day with the poision of their hate.”

  21. Fredman
    October 1, 2013, 10:25 pm

    Iran has been getting The Bomb any minute now for over 20 years. Doesn’t Bibi ever get tired of his own BS?

  22. Ludwig
    October 1, 2013, 10:29 pm

    I loved the last part. When he said we have returned to our Land and we aren’t going anywhere! I love that he said that to the whole world. Listen up folks! We are here to stay.

    • Taxi
      October 1, 2013, 11:53 pm

      Looks like peace will break israel bone by bone.

    • Shingo
      October 2, 2013, 12:26 am

      I loved the last part. When he said we have returned to our Land and we aren’t going anywhere!

      He left out the part about stealing other people’s land and driving them from it.

      I love that he said that to the whole world. Listen up folks! We are here to stay.

      I love how how the seats were empty and the other half slept through it.

      • seafoid
        October 2, 2013, 1:33 pm

        An awful lot of Israelis are leaving Shangri la.
        “We will never leave” is said in hope rather than anything else.

    • Ecru
      October 2, 2013, 12:52 am

      How exactly is Palestine the “land” of a person from Brooklyn who’s family hasn’t set foot there in over 2000 years? Please explain without using the meaningless phrase “ancient homeland” or any variation thereof.

      • seafoid
        October 2, 2013, 7:23 am

        Ancestral homeland is essentially a property concept. Just tag on ancestral to whatever you want and you’ll get it. Say you have no money. You can claim ownership to ancestral stocks that your grandfather may have held in the 1960s. And presto! Millions.

      • marc b.
        October 2, 2013, 10:16 am

        Ludwig is right, seafoid. and i’m sure he’ll be willing to leave if archeological digs prove that the Roma settled Palestine 6,000 years ago. fair is fair after all.

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 2, 2013, 1:43 am

      It’s not your land, thief, it’s the Palestinians’.

      • Talkback
        October 4, 2013, 7:13 am

        Woody Tanaka says: “It’s not your land, thief, it’s the Palestinians’.”

        I don’t agree. The right to self determination is a civic, not an ethnic right. And some Jews (and their descendants) once were citizens of Palestine, too. It’s neither solely “Jewish” nor solely “Arab” land.

        The problem is not Jewish presence, but (Arab) Palestinan absence or keeping others of them oppressed and enclaved in parts of historic Palestine.

    • Justpassingby
      October 2, 2013, 5:03 am

      “We are here to stay”

      You mean you love illegal settlements?

    • amigo
      October 2, 2013, 5:16 am

      “I loved the last part. When he said we have returned to our Land and we aren’t going anywhere! I love that he said that to the whole world. Listen up folks! We are here to stay.”ludwig

      You realize it is the “zio entity” and apartheid regime he is talking about and you and your fellow “zios” hasbarats are heading straight for the cliff edge.

      It is the Palestinians who are there to stay.

    • talknic
      October 2, 2013, 8:09 am

      Ludwig ” When he said we have returned to our Land and we aren’t going anywhere! “

      Uh? Israel went over its official borders into Palestine 65 years ago. link to pages.citebite.com

      “Listen up folks! We are here to stay”

      So? Stay in Israel. Get out of all occupied territories. Adhere to the law for once. Repatriate all illegal Israeli settlers. Pay rightful reparations. Try practicing the basic tenets of Judaism for once, as it would befit a Jewish state.

      • Kathleen
        October 2, 2013, 8:48 am

        What a concept

    • eljay
      October 2, 2013, 8:16 am

      >> I loved the last part. When he said we have returned to our Land and we aren’t going anywhere!

      You didn’t “return” to your land – you invaded, ethnically-cleansed, occupied and colonized someone else’s land.

      The only reason you “love” that is because you’re a hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist.

      • Talkback
        October 4, 2013, 7:15 am

        eljay says: “You didn’t “return” to your land …”

        Ludwig probably did, like other two millenia old zombies.

  23. talknic
    October 1, 2013, 10:31 pm

    Applause
    Abbas link to youtu.be
    30 seconds

    Netanyahu link to youtu.be
    13 seconds

    2011
    link to wp.me

    • Kathleen
      October 1, 2013, 11:08 pm

      Clear message

    • DICKERSON3870
      October 1, 2013, 11:27 pm

      FROM M.J. ROSENBERG:

      Ha’aretz has a great report about the failed Netanyahu speech at the UN. What a miskane (Hebrew for pathetic guy). He had to bring his own cheering section with him, the always appealing Sheldon Adelson, Dore Gold, and Alan Dershowitz. . .

      SOURCE – link to mjayrosenberg.com

      • talknic
        October 2, 2013, 8:25 am

        link to mjayrosenberg.com and link to haaretz.com “When Netanyahu made his entrance, in front of a half-empty, drowsy hall, his friends, advisors, supporters and entourage all rose to their feet and applauded for several minutes. ”

        Bullsh*t! We can all watch the video, hear the applause and find its length link to webtv.un.org

        17 seconds

    • Justpassingby
      October 2, 2013, 5:03 am

      Thats how hasbara works, by deception.

    • Obsidian
      October 2, 2013, 6:18 am

      I can’t believe you people actually listen to, much less dissect, this guy’s speech.
      Nuts.

      • amigo
        October 2, 2013, 7:33 am

        “I can’t believe you people actually listen to, much less dissect, this guy’s speech.
        Nuts.”obsidious

        You are referring to Nutandyahoo.

        Right.

      • Justpassingby
        October 2, 2013, 9:44 am

        Lol why shouldnt we listen? Could only you pro israel ppl listen or what?

      • Kathleen
        October 2, 2013, 1:56 pm

        Obsidian “you people”

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 2, 2013, 2:16 pm

        “Obsidian ‘you people'”

        I’d give this a pass. There is no good plural “you” in English.

      • RoHa
        October 2, 2013, 7:46 pm

        “There is no good plural “you” in English.”

        “You” is the plural. “Thou” is the singular, but only a few dialects retain it. In many European languages the plural is polite and the singular is only used for close family members, children, and dogs. In English we are polite to everyone.

        If you want a bad plural, you can try “youse” or “y’all”, but I will let you imagine the obloquy I will heap upon you if you do.

      • Hostage
        October 3, 2013, 3:20 am

        In English we are polite to everyone.

        Except of course for those occasions when we say “Pardon my profanity French”.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 3, 2013, 9:04 am

        @RoHa,

        Well, in modern, standard English, “you” is both and I’d say more recognized in the singular.

        “In English we are polite to everyone.”

        What makes me chuckle is the fact that the older bible translations used the familiar forms, “Thee, Thou, Thine” etc., to denote that God was approachable, but because those forms have disappeared, they strike the modern ear as the opposite, as being very formal.

        “If you want a bad plural, you can try “youse” or “y’all”, but I will let you imagine the obloquy I will heap upon you if you do.”

        LOL. You could try the Pittsburgh-ese “yinz” (And, shame on you. Everyone knows that “y’all” is singular. The plural is “all y’all.”)

  24. kalithea
    October 1, 2013, 10:41 pm

    You really have to search for the word “Palestinians” in Netanyahu’s toxic alphabet soup.

    After a half-hour vitriolic rant against Iran, he finally got around to addressing the Palestinian issue, and stingy to a fault, offered Palestinians a mere two minutes of his “valuable” time, resorting to what Zionists do best: robbing the real victims of all significance while he lectured them on Jewish victimhood.

    By way of typical Zionist deception, he references Jewish victimhood as a cover for a state built on a foundation of ethnic cleansing, right after hammering away at the primary but not sole condition for a Palestinian state: Palestinians must finally recognize a Jewish state, blah-blah-blah…the one and only Jewish State…blah-blah…demilitarized Palestinian state should recognize the Jewish state blah-blah. So Palestinians must accept a Jewish state built on stolen, ethnically-cleansed Palestinian land. If in a speech that ran over a half an hour he couldn’t even bring himself to give Palestinians even a full two minutes; imagine how much stolen land he’s willing to return! Palestinians should know by now; it’s all about Jewish victimhood, the Jewish state, and only the Jewish people matter and don’t you forget it, and selfish Zionist hubris is all you’re ever going to get. So quit waiting, dismantle the Palestinian Authority already and demand your rights NOW!

    As usual the truth got lost in Zionist translation, because in REALITY, there is NO Jewish State. There is only a Zionist state built on ethnic cleansing, land theft and a gross, continuing violation of the rights of millions of Palestinians. That’s the only state that exists in reality on this planet Earth!

  25. Justpassingby
    October 2, 2013, 2:54 am

    Netanyahu is a lying warmonger and hates peace we already knew that, nothing new.

    lol @ The cheerleading posse applauding, and here you have link to instagram.com
    Dershowitz with Adelson in the crowd!

  26. Citizen
    October 2, 2013, 6:12 am

    Haven’t seen any coverage of Netanyahu’s speech in the US main media.

    • Kathleen
      October 2, 2013, 8:37 am

      Folks should take the time to call into Cspan’s Washington Journal during open phones and bring up Netanyhu’s warmongering speech, his tribalism, unwillingness to negotiate, demanding that Iran stop uranium enrichment while they have every right to enrich uranium up to 20%, as signatories to the NPT. How Israel refuses to sign the NPT and calls out Iran on false claims.

      I call once a month on this issue and others. Camera (one of the I lobbies watch groups even has a file on my calls up on their watch page). Makes me so proud. Their problem is that they missed a solid 10 years of my phone calls into that program on this topic.

      Remember millions of people watch Washington Journal. It is a great way to get factual information out there and direct people to websites,information that focuses on factual information about the Israeli Palestinian conflict, Iran etc, I always mention GOING TO TEHRAN, INFORMED COMMENT AND MONDOWEISS.

      The screeners ask you for your zip code, state your comment clearly (get in a few plugs). Give it a try. If the MSM is not going to discuss this we can push some outlets to do so.

  27. Obsidian
    October 2, 2013, 6:17 am

    Winston Churchill was also a fear monger.
    If only we had listened to him.

    • eGuard
      October 2, 2013, 6:57 am

      a. He was not. More to the popint is saying that he was a colonial racist.
      b. The Brits did listen to him. They voted him out before WWII in Asia was ended.
      c. India had to listen to him. And they were fast to conclude after WWII.

    • amigo
      October 2, 2013, 7:09 am

      “If only we had listened to him.”obdidious

      As early as October 25, 1919 Winston Churchill predicted that Zionism implied the clearing of the indigenous population, he wrote:

      “there are the Jews, whom we are PLEDGED to introduce into Palestine, and who take it for GRANTED the the local [Palestinian] population will be CLEARED out to suit their convenience.” (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 15)

      Yes indeed, if the world had only listened to him.

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 2, 2013, 8:47 am

      “Winston Churchill was also a fear monger.
      If only we had listened to him.”

      George W. Bush was also a fear monger. We listened to him. Hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis and thousands of Americans were killed and maimed based on a lie.

  28. amigo
    October 2, 2013, 6:53 am

    “Mr Rouhani’s strategy, he said, was to “smile a lot because smiling never hurts; pay lip-service to peace, democracy and tolerance; offer meaningless concessions in exchange for lifting sanctions; ensure Iran retains sufficient nuclear material and infrastructure to race to the bomb at a time that it chooses.”

    He went on: “You know why Rouhani thinks he can get away with this? This is a ruse, a ploy. Because he’s gotten away with it before. He fooled the world once, now he thinks he can fool it again.”nut and yahoo.

    He is confused, this is Israel he is referring to.

  29. Shingo
    October 2, 2013, 7:10 am

    Winston Churchill was also a fear monger.
    If only we had listened to him.

    Winston Churchill wasn’t wrong about everything and got caught lying. If only we had NOT listened to him.

  30. seafoid
    October 2, 2013, 7:26 am

    Facts are stubborn things.
    Which is why they have to be marinated in hasbara.

  31. amigo
    October 2, 2013, 7:27 am

    “The contrast in tone between Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Rouhani was stark. Unlike the Iranian, who smiled during his address at the same podium and sought to appear conciliatory, the Israeli prime minister was low on smiles, high on sarcasm. Mr. Rouhani did not mention Israel by name, nor its prime minister; Mr. Netanyahu spoke the Iranian president’s name 25 times.” NYT

    link to nytimes.com

    Apologies to Mehane 1 for passing on links to propaganda sites.

  32. Kathleen
    October 2, 2013, 8:47 am

    What folks are not talking about much through the thread is how absurdly insane it is that a leader with nuclear weapons who refuses to sign the NPT is demanding that a neighbor who signed the NPT and opens its doors to inspections to “do as they say not as they do” This is absolutely sickening and beyond hypocritical how about criminal.

    While Netanyahu knows he has the U.S. congress by the cajones and pushed them to “keep up the pressure” Hate to say it but Gilad Atzmon (who I heard speak this past spring) and disagreed with him about many things and had great arguments with him) is right it is the so called liberal Dems (which I have been saying for years) who are a huge part of the problem when it comes to pushing unnecessary sanctions against Iran, voting for unnecessary wars, creating and sponsoring right wing I lobby legislation on the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Netanyahu knows he has them by the balls. Start calling Wasserman Schultz, Steny Hoyer, Schumer, Boxer, Feinstein let them know enough of standing in the way of progress, diplomacy with Iran.

    • seafoid
      October 2, 2013, 8:59 am

      “how absurdly insane it is that a leader with nuclear weapons who refuses to sign the NPT is demanding that a neighbor who signed the NPT and opens its doors to inspections to “do as they say not as they do”

      +1

      What runs through all Zionist speeches is the notion that Jews are special and that normal rules and conventions and indeed international law do not apply to them. Israel needs the US veto to get out of bed in the morning- this is supposed to be understood as normal. And then Netanyahu talks about Israel going it alone. WTF. He’s a cartoon character.

      • Kathleen
        October 2, 2013, 9:51 am

        UN reps from other countries and people around the world sick and tired of this “we’re special the exception rule” bs. Enough!

      • Walid
        October 2, 2013, 10:03 am

        “What runs through all Zionist speeches is the notion that Jews are special and that normal rules and conventions and indeed international law do not apply to them.” (seafoid)

        “… I am a lawyer…But I am against law — international law in particular. Law in general.” (T.Livni)

        “… Israelis are obliged to follow the rule of law that exists in the democracy called Israel the way I am obliged to follow the rule of law in the democracy called the United States. International law is not democratic. You are not participants of international law, you are excluded from the United Nations Security Council, you are excluded from the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, which included Libya and Syria and other wonderful compliers with human rights. Your moral obligation to comply with the letter of the rule of international law is voluntary; it is a matter of choice and a matter of tactic, not a matter of moral obligation or democratic theory. You were not represented in the making of those laws; you are not represented in the implementing of those laws. International law stands on a different footing–it lives or dies by its credibility, it doesn’t live or die by the process of democracy, by which it has been constructed. Moreover, I am not suggesting that anybody or any country violate the rule of law, what I am suggesting is a dynamic view of the rule of law–change it!” (A. Dershowitz)

  33. Kathleen
    October 2, 2013, 8:49 am

    Hope folks link this Mondoweiss thread around the blog world. Put it up on your fb page. If the MSM is not going to talk about this…we can find our ways

  34. Shingo
    October 2, 2013, 8:52 am

    I think a few people were disappointed Bibbi didn’t being any props with him. he must have fired his cartoon artists, but couldn’t he have made some cute ICBM’s out of ballons, or done some neat tricks with origami?

  35. Siegfried al-Haq
    October 2, 2013, 9:01 am

    A small correction — the heavy water reactor to which Netanyahu refers is in “Arak” (a small city in Iran) not in “Iraq.” I don’t know if the transliteration error was Alex’s or if this was in a more official transcript, but geopolitically it’s a significant distinction.

  36. Kathleen
    October 2, 2013, 10:31 am

    Netanyahu “ancient people” what other circumstance can anyone point out in the world where a group of people laid claim to a piece of land that they lived on for awhile thousands of years ago and in present day said now this is ours based on what they said their god said? This will go down in history as one of the biggest scams in history.

    When this continents native people’s start to lay claim to their land that we are on and have some pull in the U.S. congress I will be paying close attention to the leveling of the playing field.

    As people have pointed out on this thread. Netanyahu would be wise to be paying attention to international boundaries, laws etc. Israel would be wise to step up to the plate and sign the NPT and start playing by the rules that they demand their neighbors play by. Until they do this this “chosen people” we are “special” and the rules do not apply to us is not ever going to fly. Israel needs to sign the NPT asap. Apply pressure to your congress members. Get this out into the MSM.

  37. Sammar
    October 2, 2013, 11:29 am

    This whole notion of an “ancient people returning to their homeland” is ludicrous.
    There are probably more Palestinians who are descendants of the ancient Hebrews than there are Israelis.
    A person who has no Jewish roots whatsoever can convert to Judaism, make aliyah and “return to his/her ancient homeland”? How many Israelis are converts or descendants of converts who fall under that category? The BS is mind boggling.

    A poll carried out by the Israeli Democracy Institute in 2007 showed that 53% of Israelis said they do not keep the Sabbath at all. Zionism claims to have no religious foundation and yet, the religious premise of a “God-given right to the promised land” features prominently in Zionist claims to former Palestine.
    I can understand why Israel uses all kinds of BS to support their claim to former Palestine – i.e. the “ancient homeland” and the “promised land of the Bible”. What I cant understand is why the rest of the world fell for it in 1947?

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 2, 2013, 11:45 am

      “This whole notion of an “ancient people returning to their homeland” is ludicrous.”

      It’s atavistic and has no place in modern society. All it does (as this case shows) is foster generations of injustice to enforce the tribal claim.

    • Walid
      October 2, 2013, 11:59 am

      Guilty consciences for having abandoned the Jews in their hour of need, a super-duper PR campaign and a healthy dose of Arab stupidity.

      • MHughes976
        October 2, 2013, 12:42 pm

        And the insidious propaganda of Christian Zionism over more than 3 centuries.

    • MahaneYehude1
      October 3, 2013, 9:12 am

      Marhaba, ya-Sammar,

      The first Zionists came to the land of Israel (or Palestine, if you want) in 1882, what we call “the first Aliyah”. In those days, many countries were under European colonialism. The Zionists had many options to choose other land like the fertile land
      of Uganda (under GB), or other water and mineral-rich fertile land in other places under GB, French or Belgian colonialism. Why they didn’t asked for better land but chose this tiny land called Israel, half non fertile desert land, little water resources, no mineral rich mines and no diamonds? why they chose this land if they had to use BS?

      • Shmuel
        October 3, 2013, 9:36 am

        Why is it so hard to understand that dreaming, longing and even pining do not a valid claim make? That and a meddling colonial superpower (or two) will get you a “national home”.

        Historically, culturally and metaphysically, Jews have a connection to the land of Israel. They do not have the right to come and help themselves to Palestine at the expense of its native inhabitants.

        As Zeev Sternhell has said, the only reasonable claim that Israeli Jews have to the land stems from the fact that they are already there.  The rest is nonsense.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 3, 2013, 9:58 am

        @Shmuel: I think I already know this is your opinion (and others opinion), but it doesn’t answer my question.

      • Ellen
        October 3, 2013, 10:01 am

        Thanks Shmuel, for your succinct and rational answer to MehaneY1. As for his pondering:
        Why they didn’t asked for better land but chose this tiny land called Israel, half non fertile desert land, little water resources, no mineral rich mines and no diamonds? why they chose this land if they had to use BS?

        Because the Zionist project was/is a commercial enterprise and easier to promote and sell to the masses when wrapping it in emotions and religion. Much easier than selling Uganda! (Or west Texas.)

        After all, the father of Zionism, Herzl, was also a promoter of concerts, happenings, etc in Vienna. Today, he might be called an event manager.

      • Shmuel
        October 3, 2013, 10:42 am

        but it doesn’t answer my question.

        Of course it does (“Historically, culturally and metaphysically, Jews have a connection to the land of Israel”). It also addresses the fallacy that this connection somehow affords “rights” in the real world.

        As others have pointed out, the pre-existing, traditional Jewish connection, meant that the idea of a modern Jewish nation state in Palestine was a lot easier to sell (whether to the “backward” Jewish masses of Eastern Europe, or to Christian “Zionists” in Britain) than such a state in British East Africa or Argentina.

        To cite Sternhell again, when socialism began to make headway among young European Jews, the Zionist movement had no qualms about adopting that as well.

        This is all very interesting, but it is still nonsense to believe that dreaming of something (assuming for a moment that the Zionist programme actually corresponded to the traditional dreams) makes it yours.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 3, 2013, 1:50 pm

        @Ellen: Herzl was a journalist that saw the sufferings, persecutions and blood libels of my people (Dreyfus, Ukraine, Russia, etc.). He and the first Zionists wanted to put an end to this situation in which the Jews were abandoned and at the mercy of others. They went after the yearning of Jews to return to their homeland (It is hard to “sell” delusions to many people) and began to legally purchase lands in the land of Israel or Palestine. They are not intended to expel anybody and developed the lands which they legally purchased. The international community has recognized them and decided to establish an independent state alongside with independent Arab state. Subsequent events are mainly the result of intolerance toward them as there is no much tolerance to other minorities in the Middle East. These events caused a lot of sufferings to innocent Palestinians until today.
        I know other people may think that I tell the story in a naive way and that I ignore the “conspiracies” and other facts. But no, sometimes events are really naive, but other people make a lot of efforts to distort them to serve their interests.

      • Shingo
        October 3, 2013, 6:46 pm

        Herzl was a journalist that saw the sufferings, persecutions and blood libels of my people

        Herzl didn’t give a damn about Jewish persecution, other than how to encourage it, exploit it and harness it. Herzl was a social Darwinist and segregationist who considered anti Semitism to be perfectly natural.

        He even wrote about saddistic plans to incite anti Semitism, so he clearly did not want to put an end to it.

        He also envisioned early on that the native population if whatever territory ended up bring the Jewish state, would have to be driven away, so he was also an early proponent of ethnic cleansing.

        So he was a pretty sick and disturbed individual.

      • Hostage
        October 3, 2013, 6:58 pm

        They went after the yearning of Jews to return to their homeland (It is hard to “sell” delusions to many people) and began to legally purchase lands in the land of Israel or Palestine. They are not intended to expel anybody and developed the lands which they legally purchased.

        1) Palestine was not the homeland of Jews, like Dreyfus and the ones you mentioned in the Ukraine and Russia. You are simply demonstrating how Zionists double down when confronted over the delusion they are selling to members of their movement.

        2) It was not legal for foreign Jews to purchase land or immigrate to Palestine. So the Jewish Colonial societies used Ottoman subjects as purchasing agents and exploited their status as “protégés” of the western Consuls to remain and settle in Palestine under the regime of Capitualtions. For example, The Ottoman Sultan had issued a firman that encouraged the establishment of large Jewish settlements in Syria, but it prohibited Oriental and European Jews from settling in Palestine. Palestine was marked on the maps of the era. The first Jewish Aliya was carried-out in violation of that prohibition on mass Jewish immigration. In 1882, the American Consul summed up an immigration request from a group of Romanian Jews living in the Ottoman Empire this way:

        I visited the minister of foreign affairs, who informed me that the matter had been before His Majesty’s council of ministers, which had decided affirmatively that the Jews from whatever parts could come and settle in Turkey; that there was a general law of immigration in force which must be taken for the guidance of such as chose to come; that they could come when they pleased, and would be settled in groups of two hundred or two hundred and fifty families, that they could settle on any unoccupied lands in Mesopotamia, about Aleppo, or in the regions of the Orontes River; that they could not establish themselves in Palestine; that the firman of the Sultan was unnecessary, for, having once approved the law, he could not be called on to do so again; that every colonist was simply bound to become an Ottoman subject.

        In conclusion, there is nothing to prevent all the Israelites on the earth from settling in Asiatic Turkey. They shall not settle in Palestine-’that is the only prohibition.

        3) The Charter of Herzl’s Jewish-Ottoman Land Company (JOLC) contained an article which reserved the right of the Zionists to involuntarily transfer the non-Jewish population of Palestine to other parts of the Ottoman Empire. link to jstor.org

        During the Mandate era the Zionists deliberately pursued a policy of displacing Arab cultivators whenever it was possible and employing only Jewish laborers, i.e. the Conquest of Labor.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 3, 2013, 9:18 pm

        “They are not intended to expel anybody and developed the lands which they legally purchased.”

        Oh, bull. They intended to commit their ethnic cleansing from the outset.

        “Subsequent events are mainly the result of intolerance toward them as there is no much tolerance to other minorities in the Middle East. ”

        Typical zio, blaming the victim This is Nakba denial and should get you banned. Hopefully the mods will ban you quickly.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 3, 2013, 11:22 pm

        @Shingo: The “information” you bring about Herzl is nothing more than an attempt to discredit him and thus undermine the entire Zionist story.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 3, 2013, 11:40 pm

        @Hostage, eljay, Shingo: I read carefully your comments and I think my reply to Donald summarizes my view.

        @Woody Tanaka: It is not fair to say that my claim was “Nakba denial”. After many comments you should know me better and learn that when I say “consequences” I include the Nakba, which I think is the main source of sufferings of the victims of this conflict. It is not the first time I write it and I think I repeat tens of times that I want and support just solution to the Nakba victims. I also stated many times that Israel also has to take responsibility and pay for it. I ask you, please, stop blame me each time and start to learn me better. About your wish to ban me, I already said that MW was here before MY1 and will be without MY1.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 3, 2013, 11:43 pm

        mahane, have you ever watched Planning the Nakba:What They Really Said

        i recommend

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 4, 2013, 12:04 am

        @Annie: Thank you very much for your recommendation. As one that participate in MW, believe me, I saw many sources that support the Palestinian narrative as well as of the Israeli narrative.

      • Shingo
        October 4, 2013, 12:05 am

        The “information” you bring about Herzl is nothing more than an attempt to discredit him and thus undermine the entire Zionist story.

        If the writings of Herzl discredit him and thus undermine the entire Zionist story, then that should tell us how destructive ideas were and ugly Zionist history really is.

      • Shingo
        October 4, 2013, 3:03 am

        @Hostage, eljay, Shingo: I read carefully your comments and I think my reply to Donald summarizes my view.

        And like I said, you are entitled to your own narrative, not your own facts.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 4, 2013, 9:25 am

        “It is not fair to say that my claim was “Nakba denial”.”

        It absolutely fair. You are claiming that the events of the Nakba were the results of the Palestinians “intolerance” toward the Jews. This is false. It was the result of the Jews’ intent to steal the Palestinians’ property. It was an assault by the Jewish community. Denial of that fact is Nakba denial.

      • eljay
        October 3, 2013, 10:02 am

        >> The first Zionists came to the land of Israel (or Palestine, if you want) …

        There was no “land of Israel” when the first Zio-supremacists arrived in Palestine.

        >> In those days, many countries were under European colonialism.

        European colonialism was unjust and immoral. Zio-supremacists, however, looked and – with their unjust and immoral eyes – saw that it was good. They desired to be as unjust and immoral as other colonialist nations.

        >> The Zionists had many options to choose other land …

        To emigrate to, yes. To steal, occupy, ethnically cleanse and colonize, no.

        >> Why they didn’t asked for better land but chose this tiny land called Israel …

        They chose to colonize Palestine because fabricating, selling and perpetuating a myth about the “Jewish homeland” being in Palestine would prove easier than fabricating, selling and perpetuating a myth about the “Jewish homeland” being in Uganda.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 3, 2013, 10:17 am

        “Why they didn’t asked for better land ”

        Those criminals came for the same reason that each successive band of criminals did: they knew that they could fool the powers that be to aid them in their theft.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 3, 2013, 11:09 am

        @eljay and Woody: First, for us this land was always and is “the land of Israel”. I don’t care if you call this land Palestine after the name of the Philistines.

        @Woody: even if you can prove me that the first Zionists were no more than criminals (and you can’t), I would put them in the end of the list of criminal groups of the Middle East.

        For the rest of your arguments, please see my reply to Ellen. Unfortunately, the story I told Ellen is little boring.

      • eljay
        October 3, 2013, 5:40 pm

        >> First, for us this land was always and is “the land of Israel”.

        It doesn’t matter what you imagined, dreamed, desired, prayed for or fantasized it to be. The fact is, people of the Jewish faith – living in the countries around the world that were their homelands – had no right to invade Palestine, occupy it, ethnically cleanse people from it and colonize it. They still do not have that right.

      • Shingo
        October 3, 2013, 5:58 pm

        First, for us this land was always and is “the land of Israel”

        There’s never been any such thing as “the land of Israel”.

      • Cliff
        October 3, 2013, 6:39 pm

        There was never a ‘land of Israel’. You are not an ancient Jew. You are a troll.

        The land belongs to the people of the land – not to religions.

        The people who lived there for hundreds if not thousands of years, were the Palestinian Arabs.

        Jews are not intrinsically Jews, yet you slander Palestinian identity as being ‘inauthentic’ because it’s ‘derived’ from ‘Philistines’.

        You are not ‘returning’. You and others like you are all thieves and invaders and in time, Israel will become a State for Arabs and Jews and all peoples of that land.

        There has never been a single country in history that has been able to maintain a racist, ethno/religious-supremacist majority over the indigenous population (short of genocide).

        There are 5 million Jewish colonists and 5 million Palestinians. You will become one nation in time and fascists like you will be forgotten to the dust-bin of history.

      • Donald
        October 3, 2013, 6:51 pm

        MY1–I agree with the point you’ve made elsewhere that there are innocent Israeli victims in the conflict, but this claim below is silly–

        “The international community has recognized them and decided to establish an independent state alongside with independent Arab state. Subsequent events are mainly the result of intolerance toward them as there is no much tolerance to other minorities in the Middle East.”

        The Zionists came to a land already inhabited with the intent of making into a “Jewish state” with or without the consent of the people already there. And if they wanted it to be a “Jewish democracy”, the people already there would have to be moved, one way or another, in order for this to work. It’s almost impossible to imagine this happening without conflict. And it’s not some accident that this ideology sprang up during the era of European colonialism–Zionism is obviously just another variation on a 19th century theme.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 3, 2013, 11:16 pm

        Donald: First, I really appreciate that you recognize the fact that there are innocent Israeli victims of this conflicts. I believe that mutual recognition of the sufferings and the victims from both sides is important when people want reconciliation. As I stated before, I wish my government, Palestinians and Arab countries will recognize all the consequences of the long conflict in all victims of it.

        Donald, when I wrote my comments above I expected to receive a wave of not supportive replies. I think that this point, how people see the beginning of the Zionist movement, is the main controversy between the pro-Zionists and anti-Zionists. Actually, it is a different between two narratives. Anyone can find hundreds of sources that support the narrative he think it is truth, and I think people here, pro and anti, are well familiar with them and each one already has solid opinion about the conflict. I only want you to know that I personally, and the party I support Meretz, recognize the sufferings of the Palestinians refugees and support the idea that they deserve just solution to bring the end of their sufferings.

        As I say, I can’t convince you that my point of view is the right view, because no matter what I write or source I bring, I will be blown with replies that support the opposite point of view. I only want to quote from the Israel declaration of Independence. This quote, although it is still far from reality, reflects my position and how I want to see the future State of Israel:

        “We appeal – in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months – to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the up building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.”

      • Shingo
        October 3, 2013, 11:30 pm

        I think that this point, how people see the beginning of the Zionist movement, is the main controversy between the pro-Zionists and anti-Zionists.

        Yes they can. but there are only one set of facts and those facts show that the Zionists were the aggressors and arrived with the intent of conquering the territory and dispossessing the native population.

        I only want to quote from the Israel declaration of Independence.

        Feel free to do so. It says that Israel’s legitimacy is based in UNGA181, which means that Israel’s borders are defined and that Israel is stealing land that does not belong to the state.

        Israel has failed to honor every aspect of it’s declaration.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 3, 2013, 11:31 pm

        First, I really appreciate that you recognize the fact that there are innocent Israeli victims of this conflicts. I believe that mutual recognition of the sufferings and the victims from both sides is important when people want reconciliation.

        then i presume you can appreciate for each innocent jewish victims there are ten times as many innocent palestinian victims. can you appreciate the disproportionate suffering? I believe that mutual recognition of the disproportionate suffering is important when people want reconciliation.

        especially given that our government send billions of weapons to israel who has the power to storm homes, administrative detention, imprisonment of people without charge, all of this, can you recognize how both sides do not suffer proportionately, at all? or are we supposed to give equal weight to thousands of mourning souls in comparison to even one. because i don’t believe there is even one israeli rotting away in a palestinian jail tonight. not one israeli family knowing whether their child or father or mother is being tortured by a palestinian tonight. as opposed to thousands of palestinians suffering and missing there loved ones.

        i’d really appreciate you recognizing that fact. since you brought up ‘facts’.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 3, 2013, 11:46 pm

        “First, for us…”

        Who gives a damn what you think? This conflict is driven in large part by the fact that the world gives too much of a damn what you zionists think, rather than seeing what you are doing.

        “even if you can prove me that the first Zionists were no more than criminals (and you can’t)”

        They moved to an alien land with the specific intent to create a polity for themselves there against the wishes of the rightful owners of the land. If that’s not crime, nothing is.

        “I would put them in the end of the list of criminal groups of the Middle East.”

        Of course you would. You’re one of the criminals.

        “please see my reply to Ellen”

        No thanks. I’ve read those zionist lies too many times to do it again.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 3, 2013, 11:58 pm

        @Annie:

        “then i presume you can appreciate for each innocent Jewish victims there are ten times as many innocent Palestinian victims. can you appreciate the disproportionate suffering? I believe that mutual recognition of the disproportionate suffering is important when people want reconciliation” – I totally agree and said many times that in any future agreement, a just solution to ALL victims of this conflict has to be made.

        about your government that send weapons to Israel – As much as I know, and please correct me if I wrong, other parties in the ME receive weapon too. Many conflicts in the ME are not ended because the superpowers weapon industries interests.

        Look, Annie, I am not competing about “sufferings”. I want to see the end of all sufferings from both sides and I think both can do efforts to stop this cycle. Please, read my comments carefully and see that I’m not running away from my country responsibility. I have written this view in my first comments in MW.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 4, 2013, 12:00 am

        woody, the focus on ‘first zionists’ is a diversion. the first zionists were dead and gone by the time the state came along. they were not even around for the nakba. and they lived in an era of colonization run amok.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 4, 2013, 12:08 am

        I totally agree and said many times that in any future agreement, a just solution to ALL victims of this conflict has to be made.

        i wasn’t talking about ” in any future agreement”, i was talking about now.

        can appreciate for each innocent Jewish victims there are ten times as many innocent Palestinian victims. can you appreciate the disproportionate suffering?

        can you say ‘i appreciate for each innocent Jewish victims there are ten times as many innocent Palestinian victims and i appreciate the disproportionate suffering between both side, the palestinians suffering ten fold’?

        so that israeli jews can have a their zionist state?’ if you can please say it.

        other parties in the ME receive weapon too

        we’re not talking about other countries. we’re talking about ‘both sides’. that would be the occupier and the occupied. one w/the 4th most powerful army in the world, the other with, for the most part, rocks.

        so yeah, everybody suffers in war but this is not proportionate. you get that right?

        i mean, some jews are suffering of guilt knowing they stole someones house, and scuffed their knee ducking a rock or had to shoot a kid in the face. that’s different than suffering because you’re living in a tent with your home bulldozed and your child in an israeli prison being tortured. this is a realistic assessment of the suffering. notice how i did not include any deaths in my analogy. or shall we talk dead kids?
        one weeping mother vs ten weeping mothers is still both sides.

        so can you just say it?

      • Shingo
        October 4, 2013, 12:19 am

        As much as I know, and please correct me if I wrong, other parties in the ME receive weapon too.

        On condition that they are nice to Israel, so what’s your point?

      • Annie Robbins
        October 4, 2013, 12:20 am

        how people see the beginning of the Zionist movement, is the main controversy between the pro-Zionists and anti-Zionists.

        i can guarantee you’re wrong. the main controversy is the occupation of palestine and the fact that there’s an apartheid state with millions of people w/no rights. the ‘beginning of the Zionist movement’ is a distraction used to justify what’s going on right now.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 4, 2013, 12:29 am

        his point is pabulum for the masses shingo. sweet reconciliation talk when there is no reconcilliation while the crime is still occurring. if mahane were concerned w/reconcilliation he’d be spending his time on rabid zionists sites trying to sway them, he’s not . he’s here dishing us out sweet words that amount to nada. zilch. both side jargon w/no meat.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 4, 2013, 1:02 am

        @Annie:

        “his point is pabulum for the masses shingo. sweet reconciliation talk when there is no reconcilliation while the crime is still occurring. if mahane were concerned w/reconcilliation he’d be spending his time on rabid zionists sites trying to sway them, he’s not . he’s here dishing us out sweet words that amount to nada. zilch. both side jargon w/no meat”

        Thank you very much for your appreciation. I believe that until I do not write the things you want to read all my views will be rejected no matter how far away are my views. I am not here to satisfy people and imitate their opinions. I am an Israeli and a proud Zionist, believes in the righteousness of my way and my country and always I’ll fight for peace and justice. I do not know if you know me personally, but I think I contribute to rapprochement between Jews and Arabs actually a lot more than you think.

        I wonder why I receive such replies from you. People here are writing ugly and cruel things, justify killing and genocide, mocking us in all ugly words they know (“rabid Zionist sites”) and I didn’t hear your voice. Even many Palestinians don’t use such cruelty and ugly language. thank you very much for promoting peace.

      • RoHa
        October 4, 2013, 1:16 am

        “Actually, it is a different between two narratives. Anyone can find hundreds of sources that support the narrative he think it is truth,”

        But that does not mean that both are true or neither is true.

        ‘This quote, although it is still far from reality, reflects my position and how I want to see the future State of Israel:

        “We appeal – in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months – to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the up building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.”’

        Then, as Annie suggests, start persuading your fellow Israelis to change the place to a single unified state, instead of wasting your time here “dishing out sweet words that amount to nada”

      • RoHa
        October 4, 2013, 1:18 am

        “the first zionists were dead and gone by the time the state came along. they were not even around for the nakba.”

        But the later immigrants who poured in (and still come) shared the same ideology.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 4, 2013, 1:21 am

        said many times that in any future agreement, a just solution to ALL victims of this conflict has to be made.

        yeah, and you also said you believe that mutual recognition of the sufferings and the victims from both sides is important when people want reconciliation.

        and you have not recognized palestinian suffering when you frame it as both sides suffer. this is not recognition in the least. this is like comparing a stubbed toe to loosing your legs.

        so recognize palestinian suffering mahane. or can’t you do that? is all you can muster ‘a just solution to all victims’ ? you mean the massive disproportion of palestinian victims? and what kind of ‘justice’ can you support when you can’t even address them by actual RECOGNITION?

        they suffered so zionists could have a state. so zionist suffering has already been rewarded/recognized. i said “I believe that mutual recognition of the disproportionate suffering is important when people want reconciliation”

        and you said “I totally agree”

        so if you TOTALLY AGREE please recognize the disproportionate suffering, because i have not heard you do that. not once.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 4, 2013, 1:33 am

        mocking us in all ugly words they know (“rabid Zionist sites”)

        oh gag me with a spoon. are you feigning there are no rabidly islamophobic zionist hate sites? don’t feign stupid with me. you know exactly what i am talking about. you, who cannot even mouth the words of the disproportionate crimes committed against the people whose homes you’re living in, whose land you’ve stolen, who continue to suffer untold pain in your prisons, much less write the words, while you pander sweet nothings like “I totally agree”.

        if you totally agree “that mutual recognition of the disproportionate suffering is important when people want reconciliation” than recognize it. otherwise what is clear is you do not seek recognition, you seek delay. speaking of delay, oh, lets talk about the founding members who lived in the 1800’s!!!!!

        I am not here to satisfy people and imitate their opinions.

        then cut the crap about “I totally agree”.and quit mealy mouthing your ‘both sides’ lingo. it’s decades old, completely stale and rotten to the core. what was there? how many non-friendly fire israelis died during the cast lead massacre?

        how many israelis got their houses bulldozed last week? how about today???? how many jewish villages got demolished???

        link to presstv.ir

      • Annie Robbins
        October 4, 2013, 1:52 am

        I am an Israeli and a proud Zionist, believes in the righteousness of my way and my country and always I’ll fight for peace and justice.

        mahane, he who can not recognize the disproportion of suffering between the ‘proud zionist culture’ you live in and those oppressed by zionism, i think it may behoove you to try harder in that regard. because there’s something to be said for treating people by the same standards they treat others. hmm, what was that proportion? 10×1? ok, even i will give you better odds than that.

        I am not competing about “sufferings”.

        compete? you can’t even recognize it! you’re in denial.

        and you want to be treated fairly? you and your side kick who insinuated i was a holocaust denier?

        bummer.

      • talknic
        October 4, 2013, 1:54 am

        MahaneYehude1 “I really appreciate that you recognize the fact that there are innocent Israeli victims of this conflicts.”

        Indeed there are. Not only the dead and maimed but the living have had successive Governments who have fed them 65 years of lies. Governments who’ve said :
        UNGA res 181 was not binding and; because the Arabs rejected UNGA res 181 it was irrelevant
        Yet the official Jewish Agency representative at the UNSC said “As far as the Jewish people are concerned, they have accepted the decision. of the United Nations. We regard it as binding” link to pages.citebite.com and; “The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State.” Furthermore long after the Arabs rejected UNGA res 181 it was enshrined in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel!

        Israel did not declare any borders
        Yet the Israeli Government plea for recognition said ” the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947″ link to trumanlibrary.org and; that is how Israel was immediately recognized, long before it made it’s illegal and rebuffed claims link to pages.citebite.com to territory “outside the State of Israel” link to pages.citebite.com

        Do you recognize the fact that the Israeli victims have been purposefully encouraged to illegally settle by successive Israeli Governments in breach of International Law and a Conventions adopted to PROTECT THEM from the possible violent consequences of occupying another people, thereby putting them in danger.

        Do you recognize the fact that the Israeli victims have been illegally sold land in non-Israeli territory “outside the State of Israel” (ibid)

        Do you recognize the fact that the Israeli victims have been brain washed into thinking Israel’s (allegedly non-existent) borders have changed, when in fact Armistice Demarcation Lines specifically do not change borders.

        Do you recognize the fact that the Israeli victims were robbed of their promised constitution and have never had a legally elected Government (under a constitution)

        Do you recognize the fact that the Israeli victims, based on blatant lies told them by their own government, have sacrificed their lives fighting wars for territory “outside the State of Israel” (ibid) in Palestine, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and that Israel has NEVER actually been invaded by any Arab state.

        If you deny the above, all of which can be verified by the Jewish Agency and Israeli Government statements on the actual United Nations record, you’re either a victim too or you’re just another vile propagandist

      • talknic
        October 4, 2013, 2:06 am

        @MahaneYehude1 “We appeal – in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months – to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the up building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.”

        Are you really so naive to believe the drafters of the declaration didn’t know Jewish forces were already razing the homes, farms and entire villages of non-Jewish inhabitants both inside and outside of the territory slated for the Jewish state ?

        If the ‘appeal’ was genuine, why was it that one of the very first things the Israeli Government did was to refuse any return of non-Jewish civilians?

      • Taxi
        October 4, 2013, 2:25 am

        “thank you very much for promoting peace.”

        Thanks to “proud” colonialists like you, Mahane, there is no chance for peace in the holy lands, but plenty of reasons for war after war after war. Peace is the enemy of israel and land theft is its national pastime – just compare the 1984 map to a 2013 map. Clearly, there isn’t a single honorable or honest potato in your sack of excuses for Apartheid, mass murder, and ethnic cleansing.
        link to worldliteraturetoday.org

      • Shingo
        October 4, 2013, 2:39 am

        I am an Israeli and a proud Zionist, believes in the righteousness of my way and my country and always I’ll fight for peace and justice.

        Apartheid South Africa was filled with proud white supremacists, who believed in the righteousness of their way and their country and yes, even believed that apartheid was an instrument for peace and justice.

        Same goes for Nazi Germany.

        I wonder why I receive such replies from you.

        Probably because you are so oblivious to how repugnant and ingrained your views are. You probably think you are the sweetest, most lovable human being on earth, but to most of us, you come across as a racist supremacist who’s convinced himself that he can sugar coat his vile ideology in sweet sounding platitudes.

        You are hear proudly defending a state that inflicts extraordinary cruelty and injustice every day, or simply denying the violence that has given you privilege over the people you have disenfranchised. Yet you still wonder why you are not smothered in kisses.

        Zionism is racism. If you are a proud Zionist, you are a proud racist.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 4, 2013, 3:32 am

        @Taxi: At least, my potatoes are real and I am not selling delusions like several of Arab countries governments do when they promise to their citizens (when they are not killing them) that we free Palestine immediately. Look, I know what I want from my government and how I want to see Israel in the future. I recommend you to see your sacks of problems in your mother country and fight them, and stop looking at other potato sacks! Shukran!!

      • Walid
        October 4, 2013, 3:36 am

        Mahane 2 is back; Mahane 1 didn’t stay long this time. The original always writes in broken English while the second has very good English and always starts and ends his posts with extreme politeness. It’s fun watching the alternation of this tag team. He talks a lot about selling his potatoes, in French we say “vendre sa salade” but I’d be leery of whatever Mahane 1 and 2 are selling.

      • yonah fredman
        October 4, 2013, 3:53 am

        The large migration from Eastern Europe of Jews that began in 1881 flowed to the United States. Such a migration and such a despair with the situation under the Czar was bound to make Jews think in the direction of territory and self emancipation. The cavalier attitude Herzl took towards the indigenous Palestinians foretells the nakba and current attitudes as well, so they should not be declared innocuous. Herzl was no democrat, no progressive, no humanist, he was a realist, a pragmatist, a dreamer, a playwright who wrote himself into a grand play. From his early plans to lead the Jews to the baptismal fountain to his eventual discovery of Zionism as the cure to the tension between his urge to assimilate and the hatred he encountered, he always cast himself as the leader.

        To those who hate Israel, he represents someone to be hated. I do not hate Israel. I wish I could change Israel, but it eludes me how to accomplish that. But I sense that history will change Israel.

      • Shingo
        October 4, 2013, 3:59 am

        : At least, my potatoes are real and I am not selling delusion

        You’ve done nothing but sell delusion.

        Delusion that Israel is not apartheid because…you don’t think it is.

        Delusion that most Israelis support peace, justice and reconciliation. When polls show otherwise.

        Delusion that everything will turn out fine and dandy and a Palesrinisn state will emerge when 45 years of obstructionism by Israel price it is impossible.

        Delusion that racist spartgeid laws are really in place for the benefit of Arabs .

        You’re not a potato reseller, you’re a snake oil salesman.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 4, 2013, 4:05 am

        @Annie: about “disproportion of suffering” that you want me to recognize – In the past I talked about ALL victims of this conflict and I mentioned the Jewish refugees too. People didn’t agree with me and we had long thread about it. Since it is behind my ability to start the dialog again, I always write ALL and I mean “ALL”. If “all” means million Jewish victims vs. 10 millions Arabs, as you think, no problem. Israel and Arab countries are strong enough to bring solution to all victims of this conflict.

        “compete? you can’t even recognize it! you’re in denial”
        No, I am not. How can you write it to a person that wrote tens of times about the Palestinian refugees and the Palestinian sufferings etc? How can I deny it when I know personally several Palestinians lost their relatives in this cruel conflict?

        “and you want to be treated fairly? you and your side kick who insinuated i was a holocaust denier?”
        Sorry, Annie, did I mention the Holocaust? Did I say that you are holocaust denier? Never!!! I didn’t say it and will not say it, not even with a “side kick”. Please, look at my profile and bring me one link that I wrote it. As much as I remember I didn’t mention the Holocaust in my comments (only once several days ago when I wrote “I didn’t mention the Holocaust”). Why do you think so??? please, don’t rewrite me again. It is just not fair to do it. BTW, I don’t know if you notice, but I try to speak in a simple language and to avoid personal attacks. I will never write to a person things like, for instance, “moron, idiot, dumb” or “you are xxx denier”. I refer to the content of the message and not to the person himself.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 4, 2013, 4:08 am

        @Walid: You stated that you won’t take me seriously, so, why do you bother yourself to read my messages?

      • Annie Robbins
        October 4, 2013, 4:47 am

        If “all” means million Jewish victims vs. 10 millions Arabs, as you think, no problem… I don’t know if you notice, but I try to speak in a simple language……Please, look at my profile ……

        yeah, whatever.

      • RoHa
        October 4, 2013, 6:18 am

        “Mahane 2 is back; Mahane 1 didn’t stay long this time. ”

        I want to see our simple potato seller to use more Latin.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 4, 2013, 12:19 pm

        “woody, the focus on ‘first zionists’ is a diversion. the first zionists were dead and gone by the time the state came along. they were not even around for the nakba. and they lived in an era of colonization run amok.”

        annie,
        Diversion or not, the Nakba’s true beginning in with these first zionists.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 4, 2013, 12:26 pm

        ““We appeal – in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months”

        LMAO. Yeah, they were just minding their own business liquidating Arab villiages and ethnically cleansing when WHAM!!! out of the blue, those same Arabs launched an onslaught.

        “to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the up building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship”

        LMAO. Yeah, a generation of these very same people being held under martial law by this same “state” demonstrates how sincere this offer was made. And asking them to “build up” a state founded on ethnoreligious supremacist ideology is kind of like asking African-Americans to help “build up” the Jim Crow South.

        “and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.”

        And, of course, the zios get to decide how much is “due” to the Palestinians…

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 4, 2013, 12:31 pm

        @RoHa: How can I use Latin in my comments?

      • RoHa
        October 4, 2013, 9:59 pm

        “How can I use Latin in my comments?”

        You can toss in more tags, like the one you used here.

        link to mondoweiss.net

        It’s what I expect from a simple potato seller.

      • talknic
        October 4, 2013, 4:38 am

        MahaneYehude1 “The first Zionists came to the land of Israel (or Palestine, if you want) in 1882, what we call “the first Aliyah”.”

        And they were able to obtain legal citizenship, buy land anywhere in Palestine and settle. In Herzl’s life time, he could have done likewise, immigrated, obtained legal citizenship, bought land anywhere in Palestine and settled. He didn’t. Quite strange.

        The Zionist Federation blew the opportunity for Jewish folk to settle anywhere in their historic homeland by demanding a Jewish state . Its citizens are prohibited by International Law from illegally settling in territories occupied by Israel. The only way Jewish folk can legally live anywhere in Palestine is by becoming Palestinian citizens.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 4, 2013, 4:51 am

        @talknic:

        “The only way Jewish folk can legally live anywhere in Palestine is by becoming Palestinian citizens.”

        What do you mean “Palestine”? If you mean the future independent Palestine state alongside the state of Israel – I totally agree with you.

        BTW, talknic, although I can’t reply to all messages I receive ( It’s behind my abilities, since there are too many of them), I just want you to know that I read all your messages carefully.

      • Obsidian
        October 4, 2013, 5:19 am

        “And they were able to obtain legal citizenship, buy land anywhere in Palestine and settle.”

        Mostly because the European powers pressured the Ottomans to allow it.

        In 1917, after slaughtering a million of their Armenian subjects, the Ottomans turned their wrath on the Jews and Arabs of Jerusalem and expelled many.

      • Obsidian
        October 4, 2013, 5:36 am

        “The Zionist Federation blew the opportunity for Jewish folk to settle anywhere in their historic homeland by demanding a Jewish state ”

        Yeah. It’s called nationalism, which was the zeitgeist of that time.
        Greeks, Armenians, Bulgars, and other Ottoman subjects wanted States of their own at the end of the 19th century.

      • RoHa
        October 4, 2013, 10:02 pm

        “It’s called nationalism, which was the zeitgeist of that time.”

        Except that Jews were not, and are not, a nation in any normal sense of the term.

        “Greeks, Armenians, Bulgars, and other Ottoman subjects wanted States of their own at the end of the 19th century.”

        But they wanted states in the places they were living. They did not decide to go to a foreign country and take it over from the natives.

      • Talkback
        October 4, 2013, 7:18 am

        MahaneYehude1 says: “Why they didn’t asked for better land but chose this tiny land called Israel, half non fertile desert land, little water resources, no mineral rich mines and no diamonds? why they chose this land if they had to use BS?”

        Messianic ambitions.

        “First, for us this land was always and is “the land of Israel”. I don’t care if you call this land Palestine after the name of the Philistines.”

        For the world it was called Palestine in 1948. And I don’t care if you call this land after the ancient Israelites or if others call them after the Canaanites.

  38. fnlevit
    October 2, 2013, 11:30 am

    It is amazing to see again and again how leaders of such dark regime violating all possible human rights in the worst possible manner
    (see e. g. link to amnesty.org.)
    are so much tended to and even loved by the crowd here. Just because this dark regime is anti Israel. Don’t you have second thoughts at where this Israel bashing takes you? Not much to be proud off, heh?

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 2, 2013, 1:19 pm

      “are so much tended to and even loved by the crowd here”

      Stick a sock in it, zio. People here simply aren’t falling for the zionist nonsense about the boogieman threat that you people are pushing, in order to start yet another war, in order to make the zionist entity a regional hegemon. One need not love the Iranian regime to see that it is in the right on this point and that humanity would be best served by stopping the rush to yet another war based on lies.

      And a supporter of the illegitmiate racist state of israel, which commits the kinds of crimes against humanity which it does and has for generations, really has no business calling out any other state on its human rights record, unless she or he is prepared to utterly condemn his or her own. So unless you are willing to admit the evil that israel has perpetually committed, since the start, against the Palestinian people. Attend to the plank in your own eye.

      “Don’t you have second thoughts at where this Israel bashing takes you?”

      Hopefully it will lead to the elimination of the possiblity of yet another war built on lie to benefit your apartheid state, and liberation from tyranny for the Palestinian people. No second thoughts about that. Those are two glorious things.

      “Not much to be proud off, heh?”

      Trying to stave off more israeli crime in the region?? Yes, very much something to be proud of.

    • seafoid
      October 2, 2013, 1:27 pm

      #2

      They suck

    • eljay
      October 2, 2013, 1:51 pm

      >> It is amazing to see again and again how leaders of such dark regime … are so much tended to and even loved by the crowd here.

      I condemn Iranian injustices; I expect Iran to honour its obligations under international law and to be held accountable for its (war) crimes; and I advocate for Iran as a secular, democratic and egalitarian Iranian state – a state of and for all its Iranian citizens, equally.

      Tell me that you condemn Israeli injustices; that you expect Israel to honour its obligations under international law and to be held accountable for its (war) crimes; and that you advocate for Israel as a secular, democratic and egalitarian Israeli state – a state of and for all its Israeli citizens, equally.

    • talknic
      October 2, 2013, 2:19 pm

      fnlevit “It is amazing to see … “ … you seeing things that quite simply do not exist

      “Just because this dark regime is anti Israel”

      They are in fact not anti-Israel. Their sentiments are the same as the UNSC majority, critical of the regime illegally in Jerusalem link to wp.me

      “Don’t you have second thoughts at where this Israel bashing takes you?”

      Don’t you ANY thoughts before posting cr*p you can’t possibly substantiate

      ” Not much to be proud off, heh?”

      A Jewish state in breach of International Law, the UN Charter and Conventions in large part adopted because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the %&^#ing Nazis isn’t much to be proud of !

    • Hostage
      October 2, 2013, 2:53 pm

      Don’t you have second thoughts at where this Israel bashing takes you?

      I tend to bash Israel here for failing miserably at complying with fundamental international law, i.e. the customary rules adopted by states to govern their mutual relations out of a sense of perceived obligation. Don’t Israelis ever have second thoughts about where violations will eventually take you?

      Contrary to the claims of boffins like Dershowitz, customary norms are considered legally binding and are not based upon consent in the case of the ones pertaining to international criminal law.

    • Shingo
      October 2, 2013, 7:14 pm

      It is amazing to see again and again how leaders of such dark regime violating all possible human rights in the worst possible manner

      They’ve been doing it for 65 years with US backing, so why is it amazing, but I never thought of Likud as being anti Israel.

    • amigo
      October 3, 2013, 10:01 am

      “Don’t you have second thoughts at where this Israel bashing takes you?”levit (prof????????)

      The so called bashing is well deserved.

      Israel is the least liked nation on Earth.

      Not much to be proud of, eh.

  39. talknic
    October 2, 2013, 2:44 pm

    “Mr Netanyahu you’ve gotta stop your speech writers from plagiarizing your old speeches”

    “Uh?”

    “For goodness sake, it was almost identical to the last”

    “No it wasn’t, this time they wouldn’t let me make a scientific drawing!”

    “It was a f^(*ing cartoon!”

    “No it wasn’t, it had a red line! I drew it myself!”

    “It was a badly drawn, f^(*ing third rate, stupid cartoon!”

    “Couldn’t have been. I’m the Prime Minister of Israel, not a cartoonist!”

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