‘I was a Zionist till I was 64. I want to hit myself’

Israel/Palestine
on 91 Comments

Flyer for June 26 demonstration

Flyer for June 26 demonstration

Yesterday there was a demonstration in Union Square, New York, to protest the Israeli “rampage” in the West Bank. Several demonstrators held up the names of Palestinians killed or critically injured by Israeli soldiers during the raids. One of the organizers of the demonstration was an Israeli-American named Tzvia Thier. I interview her as she passed out flyers, above.

It’s a long video, but Thier is a candid and passionate person and I urge you to watch segments of her comments: particularly her revelations about Zionism manipulating Jews at 3:30 and 6:45, and the incredible statement at 8:20 or so that until she joined the Sheikh Jarrah demos in 2008, at age 64, she’d never met a Palestinian as a human being.

“It was the first time in my life I spoke to Palestinians like I speak to you now.”

And this woman was on the left, in Israeli society.

A guide to the video:

:30. Why is she there? To oppose human rights violations of Palestinians. Eloquence:

“They are oppressed terrible. They are tortured. They are imprisoned for no reason. Their land is stolen. What is going on there is a pogrom. They just destroy everything they can.”

1:20 Only if American people wake up will these things stop.
2:30. She left Israel because she could no longer climb the hills outside Hebron to help Palestinians. “I am humane.”
3:30. Thier’s main target is American Jews

“because they do such a harm… They don’t understand that they are fooled by the Zionists. There is no connection between Judaism and Zionism. The Zionists just use Jews. Jews are so naive… They don’t know what Israel is. Israel is a monster.”

4:40. Even Zionism in the 30s and 40s was an immoral cause, she says. “It is colonialism.”
5:30. She has no confidence that she is changing anyone’s opinion out here.
6:30. There’s her husband. “He is happy to take photos of me then to put on Facebook and show that his wife is such a traitor to Israel.” If he didn’t agree with her, they couldn’t be married.

6:45. This is the most beautiful exchange.

“We have two daughters– they taught us. Shall I tell you, I was Zionist. Shall I tell you that. I want to hit myself… Until 2008. Can you believe it? I think about myself, I hate myself.”

I say, So you went 64 years as a Zionist, then something happened. Why doesn’t that give you confidence others will change? And what changed in you?
7:47. I was left. I wanted peace. “Two states and all this nonsense.”
8:20. “All my life I never had a neighbor, an acquaintance, a friend who was Palestinian. Never. Until 2008.”

Then the Sheikh Jarrah expulsions began in East Jerusalem, and she went to the demo there.

“It was the first time in my life I spoke to Palestinians like I speak to you now. We were afraid from Palestinians. They are different. They can do you some harm…. Like a baby, I started to go every place I could. Every speech… everything to read.”

And she joined Ta’ayush.

10:00 You’re so smart, how come you were a Zionist for 64 years?

“I am smart but the Zionist are genius. The way they do it. The way people still believe that Israel is David and Palestinians are Goliath, they are genius.”

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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91 Responses

  1. Boomer
    June 27, 2014, 12:58 pm

    Good for her, good for her husband, good for you for bringing this to us. Maybe there is hope.

    • thetruthhurts
      June 28, 2014, 12:35 am

      i wish i could have her speak in front of all those disgusting bleeding heart presbyterians brainwashed supporters for israel sometime.

      • Citizen
        June 28, 2014, 6:00 am

        I don’t understand those presbyterians who detest BDS, or anybody helping BDS in any way at all. What is their thinking? Assuming they know what daily life is like for Palestinians, especially in the WB & Gaza, and what it has been like for years now, how do they justify their stance, whatever it is? Are they saying BDS ends don’t justify BDS means? And if so, how so? Anybody know?

  2. pipistro
    June 27, 2014, 1:13 pm

    It happens, when you’re able to break the wall inside…

  3. Annie Robbins
    June 27, 2014, 1:20 pm

    what a wonderful video. i love her!

    • Hostage
      June 27, 2014, 2:10 pm

      what a wonderful video. i love her!

      Me too.

      • Betsy
        June 27, 2014, 2:13 pm

        yes! beautiful person

    • MRW
      June 27, 2014, 6:47 pm

      what a wonderful video. i love her!

      Me too. Do another video with her—please—and (ahem) use a g.d. tripod. ;-)

      • AlGhorear
        June 27, 2014, 8:34 pm

        I second that, MRW. And please use a microphone too. Those of us who are hearing challenged could use a recording without so much background noise. I’d donate to that :).

  4. eljay
    June 27, 2014, 1:26 pm

    I have respect for Tzvia Thier. She came to understand the injustice and immorality of Zio-supremacism and she chose to condemn it for what it is rather than accept, justify, excuse or advocate it merely because it’s (allegedly) “good for the Jews”.

  5. Nubia
    June 27, 2014, 1:54 pm

    Great story. Great lady. For your interview she couldn’t even stop herself from distributing flyers. . . too busy making up for 64 years of being taken in by “Zionist genius”.

  6. Aboud
    June 27, 2014, 2:15 pm

    I’ve been a fan of this website for a long time. This story moved me so much that I thought it was time to register and be part of this community. I think Tzvia Their is amazing and would love to know more about her. She gives me hope. Great work!

    • Annie Robbins
      June 27, 2014, 2:21 pm

      welcome aboud! so glad you finally decided to add your voice to MW. hope to see you around more and thanks for your kind words.

    • just
      June 27, 2014, 3:31 pm

      Hey Aboud!

      I bless the day I found MW, it is a great community with a fount of information.

      • bintbiba
        June 27, 2014, 4:35 pm

        ‘ahlan biek’ ya Aboud!

    • Pixel
      June 28, 2014, 12:25 am

      From the shadows into the sunshine…

      Welcome, our friend!

  7. Chu
    June 27, 2014, 2:47 pm

    Good for her. Only 68 and finally figured it out. She said 2008 was her moment of clarity to change. Because of Cast Lead?

    Also there was another anti occupation group handing out fliers last week in Union Square in the SE corner off the plaza. About 8 to 10 people with the disappearing Palestine poster (the 4 maps).

    You should sell T-shirts with that poster on the front of the T, and the back can say ‘let’s talk about how we divide the pizza, while I eat the pizza’. ~At least there’s some humor to break the ice.

  8. just
    June 27, 2014, 3:15 pm

    Perhaps the best interview/ video of my life. Phil, your interviewing skills are superb!

    She, her husband, their daughters, her friend Yusef, the folks here at MW and JVP are the faces & voices of the people who will make sure that the end of injustice happens.

    ” Only if American people will wake up! Without America the bad cannot happen.”

    And that my friends, is IT in a nutshell……….I cannot change Israelis, but I can try to change Americans.

    I am struck by her openness, her ready and infectious smile, her informed passion. I can’t help but contrast it with the many videos I’ve seen of Zionists defending the indefensible.

    I hope that you stay connected with her Phil– so that I can stay connected!

    A magnificent gift.

  9. unverified__5ilf90kd
    June 27, 2014, 3:35 pm

    This article made my day – thank you. It is a jewel. What a terrible tragedy that so many Americans do not see Israel as it really is. Many misguided Zionists and their pawns in the US media are responsible for this cruel deception that torments and tortures the poor Palestinians. I feel that I could talk for hours to this remarkable lady and learn so much from her. But I fear that the US media would not find her interesting at all. They would probably call her an anti-Semite and a self hating Jew. Such a shame. This is what Mondoweiss is all about – exposing Israeli and US hypocrisy about what is really happening in Gaza and the West Bank. Unfortunately, this is but a small part of the hypocrisy that dominates public life in the USA. Let’s make more people listen to this lady – she will have a significant effect because she is so convincing and has such impeccable credentials.

  10. weareone
    June 27, 2014, 4:39 pm

    Maybe she should be on the board of Jewish Voice for Peace (instead of Noam Chomsky). She’s guileless, honest and fearless (“67 nonsense” and “Israel is a monster”) and as unverified said,
    “she will have a significant effect because she is so convincing and has such impeccable credentials.”

    Chomsky interview with Frank Barat on a previous thread— (Thanks for this W. Jones).
    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/06/critical-responses-boycott.html

    • just
      June 27, 2014, 4:58 pm

      There’s lots of room in the JVP tent…

      I think she’s doing marvelous work where she is, sparkling, and chatting and making a difference in NYC!

      Prof Chomsky is an important voice for peace, for mankind and for justice. His criticisms re US foreign policy have certainly informed me– starting a long, long time ago.

      • weareone
        June 27, 2014, 5:54 pm

        Yes, just. I’ve also learned a great deal about US foreign policy from him, but when it comes to Israel, perhaps he’s a bit biased. imo, his concern for Israel’s fate seems to be preventing him from fully accepting the rights of Palestinians.

        As Mich Levy said (in the previously linked article):
        “A useful guide for determining whether actions are expressions of effective solidarity with a struggle for self-determination are that they must 1) be based on an acknowledgement of the narrative of those who are most impacted; 2) support the demands put forward by those at the heart of the struggle; and 3) help create the conditions in which just solutions are to be found. ”

        I doesn’t seem to me that Professor Chomsky has fully acknowledged the narrative of the Palestinians or fully supports their demands–numbers 1) and 2). These would seem to be a prerequisite for 3).

        I would think that these would be the minimal requirements for a board member of any organization (not just JVP) undertaking a fight for justice of this magnitude.

        Mrs. Thier’s actions and words indicate, to me, a clarity about and empathy for the Palestinian struggle that Professor Chomsky has yet to develop. (Perhaps he will). That’s why, imo, she would be a more effective board member.

      • Hostage
        June 27, 2014, 7:47 pm

        I doesn’t seem to me that Professor Chomsky has fully acknowledged the narrative of the Palestinians or fully supports their demands–numbers 1) and 2). These would seem to be a prerequisite for 3).

        Nice straw man, but telling fellow BDSers that one of their tactics is wrong-headed or that they might do more harm than good, at a given point in time, doesn’t mean you don’t acknowledge the Palestinian narrative or support their rightful demands. Here’s another quote from a previous article about the attitude of a member of Palestinian civil society:

        As much as I wanted to break into my shpeil about BDS etc, I realized there is nothing I could really say that would re-ignite his motivation.

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 12:20 am

        1) Chomsky to a major extent acknowledges their narrative, but perhaps he also downplays it, since he said in the interview that it’s 100 times worse everywhere else.
        2) Chomsky and Finkelstein also support their demands, including the Right of Return, in theory, but when it comes to invoking those rights, Finkelstein portrays it as unrealistic. Why? Because he says that the Israelis will not accept it. OK, they will not accept it, but there are lots of things they don’t accept, and besides, the Palestinians’ rightful return does not really negate a two state solution, depending on how borders are drawn.
        3) They are helping to create those conditions by educating people about Palestinians’ suffering, which is important.

      • Citizen
        June 29, 2014, 10:06 am

        @ W.Jones
        Yet Chomsky has supported BDS on US and has never nixed such movement because “the Americans will not accept it”.

        Is Chomsky still pretending Israel is just a US pawn/strategic asset? Is he still downplaying, usually not even mentioning the pro_Israel lobby?

      • Hostage
        June 29, 2014, 11:40 am

        1) Chomsky to a major extent acknowledges their narrative, but perhaps he also downplays it, since he said in the interview that it’s 100 times worse everywhere else.

        It’s perverse to engage in concern shopping if you don’t admit that the wars in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and the genocides or mass killings in Cambodia, Rwanda, Dafur, and the former Yugoslavia were an order of magnitude worse in terms of sheer numbers of fatalities than the situation in Palestine. This line of argument is just as offensive as Nakba denial.

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 12:37 pm

        ((1) Chomsky to a major extent acknowledges their narrative, but perhaps he also downplays it, since he said in the interview that it’s 100 times worse everywhere else.))

        It’s perverse to engage in concern shopping if you don’t admit that the wars in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and the genocides or mass killings in Cambodia, Rwanda, Dafur, and the former Yugoslavia were an order of magnitude worse in terms of sheer numbers of fatalities than the situation in Palestine.

        I would agree that the experience of the killings in Cambodia were far worse than the experience of the Nakba. However, in certain ways, even Cambodia is better off than the Israeli State’s relationship with Palestinians. Cambodia as a society should eventually heal and rebuild itself. The Israeli State’s plan for Palestinians is for half of them to never return to their land, and for the entire land to live under Apartheid.

        To claim that it’s 100 times worse everywhere else (Greenland?) downplays Palestinian suffering. It’s a classic PEP statement. When Vietnamese wish to show Solidarity with Palestinians, they don’t talk that way.

    • Hostage
      June 27, 2014, 7:23 pm

      Maybe she should be on the board of Jewish Voice for Peace (instead of Noam Chomsky).

      I think she would be a good addition to the advisory board. But she truly didn’t say anything in the video that Chomsky hasn’t said, apart from the details of her personal conversion. There are plenty of droll, scholarly types, including Chomsky and Finkelstien, so its refreshing to see someone as outgoing, charming, and inspiring as this great lady.

      • weareone
        June 27, 2014, 9:18 pm

        Well Hostage, if as you mention, she didn’t say anything that Professor Chomsky hasn’t said, his interview with Frank Barat didn’t reflect that, as other commenters on this site have also mentioned. If his voice is representative of Jewish Voice for Peace, it seems to me that his opinions shouldn’t require further clarification. Mich Levy’s 3 points seem very logical, to me. If I apply them to Mrs. Thier’s words, to use the points as a “useful guide for determining whether actions are expressions of effective solidarity with a struggle for self-determination, ” I would say that she clearly express solidarity with their struggle. Based on Professor Chomsky’s words, if held to those 3 criteria, I could not say the same. I don’t know if there are other similar opinions, but if there are, this may be something that JVP, which seems to attract many people of conscience, may want to consider.

      • Pixel
        June 28, 2014, 12:28 am

        +1

      • Hostage
        June 28, 2014, 7:00 am

        Well Hostage, if as you mention, she didn’t say anything that Professor Chomsky hasn’t said, his interview with Frank Barat didn’t reflect that, as other commenters on this site have also mentioned.

        Other commenters on this site obviously haven’t compared this lady’s comments about BDS to Chomsky’s, for the simple reason she didn’t discuss the subject with Phil. CitzenC would, of course, condemn her and dismiss her views out of hand, simply because she is a member of JVP, which he says only offers a minimal critique of Zionism. I think my anti-Zionist comments on this website and this lady’s anti-Zionist comments illustrate that JVP members offer a damn sight more than a minimal critique if you care to listen and stop cherrypicking.

        Most other commentators here get their panties in a wad because Chomsky points out that most Palestinians are not motivated by the BDS movement and feel more like the person in Corey Peruca’s article about Ramallah. Omar Barghouti, who was born in Qatar, grew up in Egypt, lives in Israel, and attended Tel Aviv University. Ali Abunimah was born in Washington D.C. to the Jordanian ambassador that concluded the treaty which normalized relations with Israel and he lives in Chicago. Rashid Khalidi was born and lives in New York. His family of Palestinian notables prospered under the Ottomans, the British, and Jordanian rule. His uncle was mayor of Jerusalem, a member of the Arab Higher Committee, a member of the All-Palestinian Government in Gaza, the custodian and supervisor of the Haram al-Sharif, and was the Foreign Minister and Prime Minister of Jordan. Chomsky was pointing out to Barat that these and many other leaders and spokespersons for the BDS movement do not reflect the views of many Palestinians. In some cases the organizations don’t even have offices or a mailbox in occupied Palestine. If you think they nonetheless represent Palestinian civil society, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled complain when critics point out that they are not necessarily citizens or residents of Palestine.

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 12:31 am

        Chomsky was pointing out to Barat that these and many other leaders and spokespersons for the BDS movement do not reflect the views of many Palestinians.

        About half of the world’s Palestinians are refugees. I think that they would like to have their right of return, rather than being cut off forever from their homes. Further, by laying out the impressive background credentials of R. Khalidi et. al, you have buttressed my respect for them.

        you are not entitled complain when critics point out that they are not necessarily citizens or residents of Palestine.

        The Nakba expulsions was one of the most destructive events of modern Palestinian history. To follow it up by counting their loss of residency against the refugees and their children compounds the problem. Ali and Barghouti are right to pursue the Right of Return, just as the victims and children of other expulsions and massacres have a right to pursue their just claims.

      • Hostage
        June 29, 2014, 11:30 am

        About half of the world’s Palestinians are refugees. I think that they would like to have their right of return, rather than being cut off forever from their homes.

        If anyone had ever asked Palestinian refugees if they feared persecution in Israel or Palestine and wanted resettlement elsewhere, then you might have a point. Many refugees who gain asylum in the United States or other western countries have no intention of suffering refoulment or return to their countries of origin. We know that because we hold hearings and ask them. For decades the Palestinian refugees have been used as pawns in the struggle against Zionism whose wishes have never been officially consulted one way or the other. Here is the text and commentary on a note from the Arab Higher Committee to the Arab League on the Refugee Situation which says as much:

        The AHC categorically rejects proposals that Arab refugees be returned to Jewish controlled areas, arguing that to do so would:
        1. “Constitute a recognition of the imaginary Jewish state.”
        2. Place the refugees at the mercy of the Jews as virtual hostages.
        3. Permit the Jews to exploit the refugees in a political sense, possibly winning their votes in a likely plebiscite.
        4. Place the refugees on the marginal fringe of the Jewish economy.

        In addition to arguing against the return of the refugees to Palestine, the AHC presents: its own suggestions for the solution of the refugee problem. In brief, these call for centralized handling of the situation, financial assistance from the Arab countries and the International Refugee Organization, dispatch of men “capable of carrying arms” to Palestine “in the defense of their country,” and the establishment of refugee camps in Arab parts of Palestine.

        The tenor of the entire note reflects the irreconciled position of the AHC that the struggle against Zionism must continue unabated. Although eventually published, it is worthy of note that this document was at first suppressed by the Syrian authorities.

        http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/FRUS/FRUS-idx?type=goto&id=FRUS.FRUS1948v05p2&isize=M&submit=Go+to+page&page=1308

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 12:44 pm

        ((About half of the world’s Palestinians are refugees. I think that they would like to have their right of return, rather than being cut off forever from their homes.))

        If anyone had ever asked Palestinian refugees if they feared persecution in Israel or Palestine and wanted resettlement elsewhere, then you might have a point. Many refugees who gain asylum in the United States or other western countries have no intention of suffering refoulment or return to their countries of origin. We know that because we hold hearings and ask them.

        If they were asked if they would like to have the ability to return to their homes, without that ability impacting on them negatively, I am sure a very high number would say “Yes.”

        I understand that they may rightly worry about persecution by Israelis if they return, but that does not mean that they should be denied that right.

        Rwandans may fear persecution if they return to their homes, but it does not mean Rwandans should be barred from doing so. What should happen, ideally, is that they should be given protected and their society reorganized so that they would not be persecuted.

      • Hostage
        June 28, 2014, 8:24 am

        Mich Levy’s 3 points seem very logical

        I don’t know Mich Levy, but if he wants to engage in ankle-biting and criticism of Chomsky, he can do so himself. Frankly, even if I accepted the nonsense that people here try to promulgate about Chomsky, he would nonetheless be a pro-Palestinian activist who has standing invitations to speak to Palestinian university audiences and members of the international solidarity movement in the West Bank and Gaza.

        Levy’s ideas only sound very logical in the abstract – and only if you think millions of Israeli Jews aren’t at the heart of the struggle too. For example, I could frankly give a shit less about supporting the Hamas narrative or demand for an Islamic Republic in all of historical Palestine, even though 30-40 percent of the population supports that narrative or political platform and it prevailed in the 2007 elections. I’m perfectly willing to say that they are all entitled to the same freedoms and fundamental, equal human rights as anyone else, without exception. They can adopt any form of government they want, with my full support, subject to the caveat that it guarantees the same human rights to others. So, I can’t accept the notion that I have to “2) support the demands [for a Jewish or Islamic state] put forward by those at the heart of the struggle;” if that doesn’t include full equality and non-discrimination. It also doesn’t mean that I have to support stupid political tactics that harm the cause, just because they have been adopted by the Palestinians themselves, e.g. suicide bombings were counter-productive and so are abstract discussions about international law and millions of refugees conducted outside the courtroom or without consulting the wishes of the individual refugees. They only amount to hasbara/agit-prop that inflames passions on both sides unnecessarily without settling a damn thing.

        Zionists practice apartheid and either discriminate against or persecute the Palestinian people wherever they exist. Predictably enough, when you promulgate propaganda about things, like the Arab League boycott, or say that international law recognizes the rights of millions of refugees, without having a court opinion, treaty, or convention in hand that says as much, you can count on the fact that the Israeli government and its legion of minions will set about to change public opinion and the applicable national and international law. That’s exactly what has always happened, with disastrous consequences for the Palestinians concerned.

        For example, people here condemn Abbas for failing to endorse BDS, without ever considering the fact that Palestinian government calls or participation in a boycott against Israel would automatically subject the movement to existing anti-boycott legislation. http://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/enforcement/oac We’ve been there and done that. So it’s a bad tactic. Abbas was instrumental in getting the UN fact finding mission on the impact of settlements in the occupied territory. It addressed the civil and criminal liability of foreign corporations and persons doing business in the settlements. The UN Working group staffed to report on that aspect published a statement earlier this month confirming that existing law provides for criminal liability. 5 of the biggest EU countries have subsequently warned their businesses and citizens. The BDS movement needs to take the hint and demand that government pursue these corrupt organizations and racketeers.

        FYI, Chomsky originally supported a single state in Palestine, just like the PLO. He does not support the idea of a Jewish state. He believes that Israel should be a state of all its citizens and only endorses a two state solution as a pragmatic measure to end the occupation and the armed conflict. He doesn’t believe a one state solution on non-Zionist terms will happen any time soon. He has stated that he thinks a two state solution should be an initial step on the road to an eventual confederation or federal union between the two peoples.

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 12:47 am

        It also doesn’t mean that I have to support stupid political tactics that harm the cause, just because they have been adopted by the Palestinians themselves, e.g. abstract discussions about international law and millions of refugees ~Hostage

        If one doesn’t support the refugees’ “right” or desire to return to their homeland, then I am not sure how he/she is standing in “solidarity” with those very refugees. Calling something a “right” after all suggests that it has a basis in law.

        One may argue that many refugees don’t wish to return and just want to stay in run down camps like Yarmouk, but that is only about “half Solidarity”.

        when you say that international law recognizes the rights of millions of refugees, without having a court opinion, treaty, or convention in hand that says as much, you can count on the fact that the Israeli government and its legion of minions will set about to change public opinion and the applicable national and international law.

        Whether or not we have a treaty about the refugees the Israelis will work to change public opinion against them. If one strongly believes that the refugees have no “right” to return, then the Israeli infomercials have succeeded.

        FYI, Chomsky originally supported a single state in Palestine,

        Yes, Chomsky’s original idea of a binational state was appealing, but there was a problem with his model. He was part of a Kibbutz model that arranged Israeli organizations from the local to national level in economics and politics. His model of a society would create two parallel sets of organizations – one Palestinian and the other Israeli from top to bottom. The problem with this kind of bi-national state, as opposed to a more universalist one, is that it creates a kind of internal segregation, dividing people’s lives and economic and social interactions along whether they are Israeli or Palestinian. The correct answer would have been a kibbutz model that was both Israel and Palestinian, rather than dedicated to only one or the other.

      • Hostage
        June 29, 2014, 10:49 am

        If one doesn’t support the refugees’ “right” or desire to return to their homeland, then I am not sure how he/she is standing in “solidarity” with those very refugees. Calling something a “right” after all suggests that it has a basis in law.

        Among other things, the thing that makes a person a “refugee” is a well grounded fear that they will be persecuted if they return to their country or origin or nationality. That’s one of the situations that resolution 194 actually deals with. It says that people who feel like that are entitled to opt for compensation, instead of return. They also have the right not to be treated as political pawns or misled by the BDS movement or any party to the conflict.

        972 Magazine ran an article which said that polls conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research indicated 90 percent of the refugees preferred compensation in lieu of the right of return to Israel. Abbas’s comments during the March 2009 meeting reflected that there would be a firm requirement for Israeli compensation of the refugees in any event and that the refugees in the Diaspora would be allowed to vote in a national plebiscite on the final settlement. He repeated that promise during the recent round of talks. Ali Abunimah took issue with the poll because “the question offered a choice between return and compensation as if refugees are entitled to only one or the other.” Resolution 194 certainly spells it out that way.

        In reality, opting to exercise the “right of return” will undoubtedly work against an individual’s “right to compensation”. Resolution 181(II) allowed the states to expropriate property from the members of ethnic and religious minority groups for public use. It gave the Supreme Courts of the respective states the discretion to decide upon the amount of compensation in such cases. Resolution 194(III) did not alter that situation.

        The existing Israeli Supreme Court precedents beginning with CApp 41/49 Simshon Palestine Portland Cement Factory LTD. v. Attorney-General (1950) have cited Hans Kelsen’s article, “Theorie generale du droit international public, problemes choisis”, in vol. 49 of the Recueil des Cours of the Hague Academy of International Law:

        “In so far as concerns debts due to individuals who become, as a result of territorial changes, citizens of the successor State, here there can arise no question of a legal succession based upon principles of general international law itself. The relations between the State and its citizens are in the exclusive jurisdiction of the State in question which can therefore, acting in full accord with international law, decide quite freely whether it will take upon itself debts such as these” (p. 329).

        I support the right of refugees to retain that status and support from UNRWA, while demanding compensation or resettlement elsewhere, owing to a well grounded fear of persecution, second class citizenship, and denial of compensation if they return to either Israel or Palestine. I do that, because that’s the law. I get sick and tired of hearing propaganda talking points about 5 million refugees returning to Israel, when polling says that isn’t going to happen, and no one has ever surveyed the actual wishes of the refugees registered with UNRWA, much less confirmed that descendants of refugees have a legal right to anything more than refugee status and property claims. Neither of those automatically confer a right of residency or repatriation under international law. I think that keeping people in refugee camps in limbo, until there is a “final settlement”, if they don’t want to return in any event, can’t be described as solidarity.

  11. German Lefty
    June 27, 2014, 5:34 pm

    It’s a long video

    WHAT? Ten and a half minutes are NOT long.

    • just
      June 27, 2014, 9:07 pm

      I could have listened for several hours, but I’ll always cherish what I received today…

      So amazingly reminiscent of the song Teach Your Children when she says that her 2 daughters taught her and her husband……

      “…….And you (Can you hear?) of tender years (And do you care?)
      Can’t know the fears (And can you see?) that your elders grew by (We must be free)
      And so, please help (To teach your children) them with your youth (What you believe in) They seek the truth (Make a world) before they can die (That we can live in)

      Teach your parents well
      Their children’s hell will slowly go by
      And feed them on your dreams
      The one they picks, the one you’ll know by

      Don’t you ever ask them why
      If they told you, you will cry
      So just look at them and sigh
      And know they love you ”

      http://lyrics.wikia.com/Crosby,_Stills,_Nash_%26_Young:Teach_Your_Children

  12. Dutch
    June 27, 2014, 5:37 pm

    This is great journalism, Phil. Thanks.

  13. Cliff
    June 27, 2014, 6:11 pm

    Amazing video and she’s 100% right. Judaism =/= Zionism. She is what I think of when I think of Jewish identity. Justice-seeking.

  14. a blah chick
    June 27, 2014, 6:55 pm

    I truly appreciate people like this. It takes a special kind of courage to re-evaluate long held beliefs. So much easier to avoid the unpleasant facts.

    • Citizen
      June 27, 2014, 9:11 pm

      Nobody can truly appreciate this woman unless they themselves are in their 60’s or 70’s. No way to convey it. People of that age are always counting the days they may yet be alive.

  15. MRW
    June 27, 2014, 7:09 pm

    A second request. Get her back. She’s wonderful.

  16. Citizen
    June 27, 2014, 7:55 pm

    Meanwhile, the admirable Tzvia Thier doesn’t have Obama’s ear, which at the moment is filled with pleas to free Pollard: http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=18407

    • just
      June 27, 2014, 8:30 pm

      All the while Congress remains a joke and disgrace, Boehner wants to sue the President, SCOTUS is mostly loony, and this happened yesterday:

      “Peres Honored With Congressional Gold Medal”

      Check out Cantor and the rest of Israel’s sycophants in this pic: http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nbc-news/peres-honored-with-congressional-gold-medal-289795139873.

      Mr. Obama gave him the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2012.

      Are we done yet?

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2014, 9:13 pm

        We are never done honoring horrible Zionist achievements. Thank you, USA campaign finance system.

  17. jenin
    June 27, 2014, 8:11 pm

    Inspiring woman. It’s good to know people can reject ideas they were indoctrinated with for 64 years. I always assume people past a certain age are hopeless and it’s up to changing the minds of younger generations but she’s proven me wrong

  18. RobertB
    June 27, 2014, 9:40 pm

    Tzvia Thier…a compassionate Jewish mother with a moral voice for truth, justice…humanity….human rights…for the Palestinians. She is clearly NOT on the side of Apartheid zionism…Not on the side of Israel’s IDF killers…Not on the side of Israel’s zionist generals…Not on the side of Israel’s Apartheid occupation of the Palestinian people.

    Tzvia has decided to get off the sidelines…she has decided to take an active role of spreading the truth to the Americans who are so lethargic from their deep slumber state.

    I salute her moral courage…her humanity…and her active role of spreading the truth about Israel’s Apartheid occupation and the murder/killing of so many innocent Palestinians.

    I find this interview very inspiring…!!!

  19. Taxi
    June 27, 2014, 10:50 pm

    Thank you, beautiful Tzvia. Amazing, soaring soul!

    And I have to say that every time I hear the expression “shall I tell you…”, I immediately think of this oldie:

  20. MRW
    June 27, 2014, 10:52 pm

    I keep coming back to watch this. Phil, ask about her daughters next time. Where are they?

  21. LuLu
    June 27, 2014, 10:54 pm

    God Bless her, at least she is speaking out now. God is All Forgiving and Merciful… Great Lady…

  22. weareone
    June 27, 2014, 10:58 pm

    “Nice straw man, but telling fellow BDSers that one of their tactics is wrong-headed or that they might do more harm than good, at a given point in time, doesn’t mean you don’t acknowledge the Palestinian narrative or support their rightful demands.”

    Not a “straw man.” No distortion or misrepresentation.
    “fellow BDSers”? Who are you referring to? Noam Chomsky? Now you’re distorting my words and intent. Why shouldn’t “BDSers” disagree with each other? We’re not a homogenous group. We comprise people from all over the world-many cultures, nationalities and languages.; however, I agree with Jamie Stern-Weiner:

    “It quickly becomes apparent that the article’s operative definition of BDS-friendly activities is sufficiently expansive to encompass campaigns whose objectives run directly contrary to the BDS platform, and which are organised by individuals and organisations directly contrary to the BDS platform, and which are organised by individuals and organisations who emphatically reject BDS. As examples of such “targeted support for BDS” the authors cite, …Norman Finkelstein, NOAM CHOMSKY [my emphasis], … If these diverse groups and individuals do not endorse the BDS platform, the authors insist, they nonetheless support “BDS methods.” But then, in what sense do their actions constitute “targeted support for BDS”? Indeed what makes their methods “BDS methods”?

    And I agree with Omar Barghouti who “dismisses anything short of support for the full three-point BDS platform as mere “boycotting acts” of the “Zionist left.”

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/06/critical-responses-boycott.html

    I don’t think we’re going to agree on this so why continue the discussion? You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine.

    • Hostage
      June 28, 2014, 9:47 am

      Not a “straw man.” No distortion or misrepresentation. “fellow BDSers”? Who are you referring to? Noam Chomsky?

      Yes, I notice you reserve your right to disagree or engage in ankle biting: “Why shouldn’t “BDSers” disagree with each other? We’re not a homogenous group. We comprise people from all over the world-many cultures, nationalities and languages.”

      Cool, I think you’re a mental midget and a waste of valuable time that could be spent more profitably on more important subjects.

      Jamie Stern-Weiner . . . individuals and organisations who emphatically reject BDS. As examples of such “targeted support for BDS” the authors cite, …Norman Finkelstein, NOAM CHOMSKY [my emphasis],

      Jamie Stern-Weiner is entitled to her opinion, but if she is implying that Finklestein or Chomsky “emphatically reject BDS”, then she is mischaracterizing their positions and erecting a straw man. Chomsky has never said that he doesn’t support the refugee right of return, he simply says there isn’t any realistic possibility it will be implemented through the tactics adopted by the BDS movement – and that those tactics have been a veritable gift to hardliners that have backfired and harmed the victims. Rejecting ineffective tactics can’t be equated with rejecting the basic human rights, but that hasn’t stopped you guys from trying.

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 1:18 am

        Jamie Stern-Weiner is entitled to her opinion, but if she is implying that Finklestein or Chomsky “emphatically reject BDS”, then she is mischaracterizing their positions

        Chomsky told F.Barat that the BDS petition was “pure antisemitism” for divesting from the Israeli State when it’s “100 times worse” everywhere else, supposedly. That’s an emphatic rejection of the official BDS campaign as “anti-semitic”.

        And if it’s 100 times worse everywhere else, then we might as well stop coming to Mondoweiss, send a “Congratulations on your world-class fortune and well-being” letter to Palestinians, and start a blog advocating for the rights of Innuit refugees in Greenland.

      • Hostage
        June 29, 2014, 9:46 am

        Chomsky told F.Barat that the BDS petition was “pure antisemitism” for divesting from the Israeli State when it’s “100 times worse” everywhere else, supposedly. That’s an emphatic rejection of the official BDS campaign as “anti-semitic”.

        No, Chomsky actually said, “Yes those are all the right things to do”, but why don’t you do them against the United States, which is 100 times worse? He was actually making an observation about things others had said. He actually said that “particular words could be attacked, and were attacked, as pure anti-Semitism, with some justification” and that they were “a gift to hardliners”. I happen to be one of the people he was criticizing, because I’ve commented on many occasions here that an illegal apartheid regime, like Israel, South Africa, or Southern Rhodesia, has no right to exist and that international law and state practice say as much. I’ve always maintained that the international community has no more historical obligation to maintain a racist Jewish state in Palestine than it did a racist Nazi regime in the Sudetenland. I do not support the continued existence of the State of Israel or the State of Palestine in their current forms and could care less who knows that. Both of the states should be reconstituted as states of all their citizens with guarantees of equal rights or abolished and replaced with a state that can do those things. It’s a standard hasbara talking point that I’m denying the Jewish people’s right of self-determination by saying those things and that it’s a form anti-semitism – and some people think there’s some justification for that proposition.

        When Phil said “the Talmud is bullshit” or I said that I consider the prohibition against intermarriage in Judaism to be racist, other commenters said that there was some justification to interpret those words as anti-Semitic. So why do you keep twisting what Chomsky actually said when you know damn good and well that he pointed out that he’s been doing BDS longer than you have? He only disapproves of some of the tactics the movement employs from time to time, because they might be counter-productive and backfire, harming the victims?

        Re: “supposedly”. I pointed out to you that the USA keeps a higher percentage of its population in jail than any other country on Earth. One in three black males will go to jail in their lifetime. Blacks represent 60 percent of the prison population, but only represent 30 percent of the country’s population. Unlike Israel, the armed forces of the United States have killed millions of people in foreign wars and made millions more refugees, just in my lifetime. The fact that you still deny that its been worse than Israel, could be called racist, with some justification.

      • Citizen
        June 29, 2014, 10:16 am

        @ Hostage
        Chomsky’s right about the blatant hypocrisy of the US government, which I believe should be addressed in every non-violent way possible. This issue has only gotten worse since Bush Jr’s preemptive war on Iraq, itself based on deception of the American public, which was aided by the US main media. And what’s more hypocritical than the US deploring Israeli settlements as obstacles to peace all the while it funds them so lavishly? And putting Iran’s head to the fire on non-existing nukes while ignoring Israel’s nukes? Further, Chomsky downplays the power of the Israel Lobby in Congress and WH in an America that amounts to a plutocracy in terms of campaign finance?

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 11:56 am

        ((Chomsky told F.Barat that the BDS petition was “pure antisemitism” for divesting from the Israeli State when it’s “100 times worse” everywhere else, supposedly. That’s an emphatic rejection of the official BDS campaign as “anti-semitic”.))

        No, Chomsky actually said, “Yes those are all the right things to do”, but why don’t you do them against the United States, which is 100 times worse? He was actually making an observation about things others had said. He actually said that “particular words could be attacked, and were attacked, as pure anti-Semitism, with some justification” and that they were “a gift to hardliners”. ~Hostage

        Chomsky rejected the official BDS petition with which he was presented for at least three reasons: (1) He was read the list of demands and he immediately added “and the destruction of Israel”. That sounds to me like a rejection of the BDS campaign. Now how does he conclude that a petition to sanction an abuser means that it demands their “destruction”? As you and I discussed before, the right of return can be implemented without “destroying” the state, so long as borders are drawn to accommodate it.

        (2) He said that particular words in it were “pure anti-semitism”. What words were those? His explanation is that the “hypocrisy reaches to heaven. It’s 100 times worse in the US, England, or any other place you take about. Why not boycott, call for that in the US?” (1:00-1:30)

        In fact, it is not 100 times worse in any other place we choose to talk about.

        He confirmed that those were the words he disagreed with, when he complained that a previous petition said: divestment “and from Israel”. (3:40)

        (3) He says: “They know perfectly well that there will not be an implementation of the right to return. The hypocrisy is so transparent.” (2:30)
        So he does not support including the right of return in the BDS campaign?

        Here is the video again:

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 12:19 pm

        The fact that you still deny that [the US has] been worse than Israel, could be called racist, with some justification.

        In some ways it has been worse, in some ways it has been better. I deny that the US is (ie currently) 100 times worse than the Israeli State. As the Clean Break Document showed, US policies in the Middle East are often performed on behalf of the state, showing in turn that the abuses of the US in the Middle East are in fact combined with those of the State.

        African Americans have at least in law equal status and rights as white Americans. Palestinians even within the Israeli State are under dozens of laws that give them second class status. Despite a shocking incarceration rate, African Americans are not “100 times worse” off than Palestinians in blockaded Gaza, the refugee camps, under direct occupation with their homes randomly attacked without recourse, etc.

        To say that the Israeli State is 100 times better than “anywhere else” in the world is the talking point of a hardcore PEP, akin to the phrase “only Democracy in the Middle East” (Lebanon? Cyprus? Armenia?), etc.

  23. Clif Brown
    June 27, 2014, 11:52 pm

    Go viral, go viral! Let’s all do what we can to make it so.

  24. Pixel
    June 28, 2014, 12:42 am

    .
    As you said to her, Phil, “Let’s stay with this story.”
    .
    .
    There are no great deeds – only small deeds done with great Love. – Mother Theresa

    • Pixel
      June 28, 2014, 12:47 am

      .
      ps: People deserve to know when they’re repsected, admired, and appreciated. Be sure she heads over here and reads these comments — and then sends the link to her daughters. How PROUD they must be!

  25. Shmuel
    June 28, 2014, 2:08 am

    Thank you so much, Tzvia. I know the kicking oneself feeling, but if you and your husband managed to raise two daughters, in Israel, with that kind of awareness, honesty, empathy and sense of justice, you must have been doing something right long before you were 64. תודה מקרב לב

  26. Philip Munger
    June 28, 2014, 3:13 am

    Just after 30 seconds into the video, a couple shows up behind Tzvia. The guy (with the lime green shoelaces) sits down in the previously empty lime green chair. The woman who accompanied him slowly walks by Tzvia and Phil. He stays there the entire time Phil interviews her. They appear to have had this group under surveillance. Watch his studied detachment. As Phil states he is breaking off the interview, he watches Phil more closely and gets a bit more animated in his phone conversation. Does anyone recognize this couple?

    • Walid
      June 28, 2014, 3:19 am

      I had my eye on him throughout the talk but didn’t spot his partner.

  27. Walid
    June 28, 2014, 3:18 am

    A great lady. Super determined to pass out her flyers to the right, to the left and behind her in spite of Phil’s questioning; she didn’t stop for a second throughout her conversation.

    She blamed America for supplying Israel with all the tools they are using to oppress the Palestinians, which is somewhat inaccurate. America supplies many countries with the same tools but these are not being used to oppress Palestinians or any other people so that argument could be reworded to state that only America can get Israel to stop its evil ways.

    • Hostage
      June 28, 2014, 11:38 am

      She blamed America for supplying Israel with all the tools they are using to oppress the Palestinians, which is somewhat inaccurate.

      Like the dear lady and Noam Chomsky, I happen to agree that the United States makes it all possible, and that without the United States, it simply couldn’t happen.

      The United States has been involved since our Consuls in Palestine facilitated the first illegal Jewish settlers from the USA there during the 19th century and refused to bring them home when they overstayed their welcome. The United States has certainly played a role every step of the way, since the British government coordinated with US officials on the wording of the first drafts of the Balfour Declaration. You can only speculate that Israel could have done everything that’s happened since then without US assistance, because it has never existed for one moment without it.

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 12:56 am

        Like the dear lady and Noam Chomsky, I happen to agree that the United States makes it all possible, and that without the United States, it simply couldn’t happen.
        Oh, I don’t know. If the US was completely neutral and out of the picture perhaps it would still happen. Look at how they were able to get France to go against Washington, weakly albeit, on Iran. Look at how Britain and France allied with them on the Suez Crisis. Look how they used the USSR to remove the British, and then turned away from the Soviets once they were successful. The refugees were kicked out at a time when Washington was not yet aligned with them.

      • Hostage
        June 29, 2014, 10:15 am

        Like the dear lady and Noam Chomsky, I happen to agree that the United States makes it all possible, and that without the United States, it simply couldn’t happen. . . . Oh, I don’t know.

        Let’s just leave it at that. There are obviously a lot of things you’d like to speculate or guess about, but the documentary record is clear. The Zionist movement has relied upon the government and people of the United States from the moment it came into existence and at every step along the way, until now.

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 10:48 am

        No, there were many times that it took steps without relying on the US government. The Nakba was one of them. The US government did not participate to the extent that without it, the Nakba would not have occurred. At that point in time, while the US was supporting the State at the UN, it was not supporting it actively every step of the way.

        The US government recognized the State and supported it at the UN, but in terms of the Nakba that soon followed, without US government involvement at the time of the Nakba it still would have happened, since the US government was uninvolved in the Nakba.

  28. Baldur
    June 28, 2014, 4:12 am

    Thank you Philip for this powerful interview.

  29. Citizen
    June 28, 2014, 6:21 am

    “I am smart but the Zionist are genius. The way they do it. The way people still believe that Israel is David and Palestinians are Goliath, they are genius.”

    The way they do it: No pictures of Palestinian kids armed with sling shots against Israeli tanks invade US main media, for many decades now. This lack of knowledge of facts on the ground in Palestine partners with the constant, barely veiled repetition All Arabs are just always waiting to kill innocent Jews.

    Compare the single pic of the Vietnamese kid running naked down the bombed street and the one of the single Chinese youth confronting the soviet tank in T square. Remember when the pic of the frightened Palestinian dad crouching against a wall adjacent the street, holding his son to his chest while being fired upon by the IDF? That went nowhere in US main media. The Hasbara legions quickly framed it as being a set-up….

    The key battle is against the five US mega corporations that control 90% of US mainstream news information and pundit distribution channels. Most Americans do not use the internet alternative to obtain news and perspective on world events.

    How many news shows depicted American soldier body bags coming home during the last ten years of war?

  30. weareone
    June 28, 2014, 8:16 am

    If you read my comments carefully, you’ll see that I never compared Mrs. Thier’s “comments about BDS to Mr. Chomsky’s”, because, as you said, it wasn’t discussed. What I suggested was that she would, imo, make a more effective board member than Mr. Chomsky for the reasons that I outlined.

    “I think my anti-Zionist comments on this website and this lady’s anti-Zionist comments illustrate that JVP members offer a damn sight more than a minimal critique if you care to listen and stop cherrypicking. ”

    This is not a personal critique of you, Hostage. Whose “panties are in a wad?” But I do think that anyone who claims to support BDS should respect the movement and it’s founders and support the full three-point BDS platform. Omar Barghouti is the BDS movements’s leading figure, and as such, deserves the respect and support of all who claim to support this movement. He labels those who cherry pick from the points, “the Zionist left.”

    Who cares where they grew up and were educated? imo, that’s irrelevant. Gandhi was born in India, educated in London and was an expatriate lawyer in South Africa before leading India to freedom.

    “Chomsky was pointing out to Barat that these and many other leaders and spokespersons for the BDS movement do not reflect the views of many Palestinians. In some cases the organizations don’t even have offices or a mailbox in occupied Palestine.”

    If, that’s the case, then that’s for the Palestinians to state. imo it’s presumptuous of Chomsky or anyone else to speak for them. They seem quite capable of speaking for themselves. Really, Hostage? A BDS office in occupied Palestine? And what do you think would happen to that? Maybe you and Mr. Chomsky go and live in Palestine for a month. I haven’t been there, but I can visualize it and empathize-visualize myself as the other. It happened for Mrs. Thier and it changed her outlook and maybe even her life. Because in the end, enforcing laws can create justice and equality, but after that, in order for people to live together peacefully, imo, the key is empathy, which requires opening of the heart and humility.

    • Hostage
      June 28, 2014, 12:51 pm

      Whose “panties are in a wad?”

      LoL! The people like you who don’t like what Finkelstein and Chomsky have to say. You go out of your way to drag them into a conversation and construct straw man arguments about their “total rejection of BDS” or pretend those two are powerful or popular enough to play the role of gatekeepers. In fact its you who are trying to summarily excommunicate them and pretend their views are somehow beyond the pale.

      FYI, BDSers, like Barghouti, fought the UN statehood bid because they claimed it would somehow abandon the refugees and Palestinian Israelis. He even tried to advance the risible notion that the UN has recognized the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian citizens of Israel. In fact, the rights of both groups are under UN guarantee and are in no danger of lapsing due to the status of the PLO. That’s the reason I disagreed with Finkelstein’s claim that international law has nothing to say about Israel’s treatment of its minorities. I’ve explained time again why BDS and Palestine ought to demand that the General Assembly pursue enforcement of the minority rights treaty in resolution 181(II) in order to obtain equal constitutional rights for Palestinians living in Israel and the return of all refugees actually displaced during the wars in 1948 and 1967. If anyone, including Barghouti or Finkelstein, think that’s fringe thinking, so be it. The trouble is, that thin-skinned people did get their panties in a wad and decided to excommunicate Finkelstein and haven’t engaged in a constructive conversation about leveraging those UN guarantees to the benefit of the refugees and Palestinians citizens of Israel.

      Who cares where they grew up and were educated? imo, that’s irrelevant. Gandhi was born in India, educated in London and was an expatriate lawyer in South Africa before leading India to freedom.

      Apparently lots of people care, because Chomsky’s remarks pissed them off. The fact is that the people living in Tel Aviv, New York, and Chicago haven’t gone back and led anyone to freedom and can only be considered self-appointed members of Palestinian civil society in the loosest sense of the term.

      If, that’s the case, then that’s for the Palestinians to state. . . . They seem quite capable of speaking for themselves. Really, Hostage? A BDS office in occupied Palestine? And what do you think would happen to that?

      So you are admitting that Abbas is braver than these ex-pats? FFS Abbas won an election by a 60 percent majority of the Palestinians. None of the ex-pats has ever been elected to be a dog catcher. Abbas gets criticized here all of the time for only advocating a boycott, divestment, and sanctions against the illegal settlements. He filed a criminal complaint with the ICC while living in Ramallah and stood by it, even after the head of Shin Beit threatened to turn the West Bank into another Gaza. Nonetheless the commentors here claim he is Israel’s bitch. I think that its time for the UN to repeal the resolutions on security cooperation with Israel and the Road Map and that the Human Rights treaty bodies should be on Palestine’s violations like white on rice, now that it is a state party to all the major conventions. But I don’t find the arguments here to be very convincing with regard to the notion that unelected BDS ex-pats, and not the PLO Executive or Hamas, suddenly speak for Palestine, e.g. http://electronicintifada.net/content/tough-questions-hamas/9095 While you can argue their terms are expired, the BDS movement opposed their positions even when they had a valid mandate and were undoubtedly expressing the will of the people who just elected them.

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 1:04 am

        Weareone,
        Hasb. activists make lots of cutting comments. Why? Because they are in charge. Hasb. is riding high on the victors and conquerors. Others get insults thrown at them. If you have ever debated hardcore PEPs, you will notice that it’s an M.O. Over and over the cutting remarks appear at the end of their comments.
        They have difficulty carrying on a civil disagreement. Even the name “Palestinian” is offensive to them.

        While you can argue their terms are expired, the BDS movement opposed their positions even when they had a valid mandate and were undoubtedly expressing the will of the people who just elected them.~Hostage

        There are a lot of Palestinians in the West Bank who think Abbas is a collaborator. I have heard some of them give lectures on tours in the US and know about protests there. I don’t disagree with you about the good he has done or his sincere, good wishes, but let’s not try to imagine such a chasm between the Diaspora like Ali A. and Palestinians under occupation. These guys know what they are talking about and their views are shared by others. Abbas’ support is mixed, as is Hamas’ support. No one has a monopoly on support from the public.

      • Hostage
        June 29, 2014, 10:09 am

        There are a lot of Palestinians in the West Bank who think Abbas is a collaborator.

        Both Arafat and Abbas won PLO and PA Presidential elections by wide margins, based upon the 1988 Algiers Declaration and the 1988 platform of the PLO Central committee. It was incorporated in the “Plan to End the Occupation and Establish the State” that was adopted early in Abbas’ term as PA President. He won that election by a popular vote of 62 percent.

        but let’s not try to imagine such a chasm between the Diaspora like Ali A. and Palestinians under occupation.

        Don’t kid yourself. There were riots in occupied Palestine and the refugee camps outside Jordan, when Ali A’s father concluded the treaty normalizing relations between Israel and Jordan. There are many people who think he and his family are Jordanian collaborators. I happen to believe that his heart’s in the right place, but I don’t think he has ever had a legal mandate from anyone.

      • W.Jones
        June 29, 2014, 11:18 am

        riots in occupied Palestine and the refugee camps outside Jordan, when Ali A’s father concluded the treaty normalizing relations between Israel and Jordan.
        You pointed out that the treaty didn’t demand the right of return. This may have been a reason why the refugee camps were rioting. In other words, if we would find Ali A working to break down the right of return, then a chasm might exist on that question. But if Ali A is now advocating BDS to help the right of return, then on the question of seeking the right of return, Ali A is in keeping with those refugees’ opinions. Thus, we don’t find a chasm between them on this question of the right of return.

  31. nettee
    June 28, 2014, 2:03 pm

    My very first comment here.
    Proud and happy to be amongst like-minded people.
    I think Tzvia is wonderful and I applaud her for her convictions.
    Kol Hakavod!

  32. hellsbells
    June 28, 2014, 2:23 pm

    That’s a classic! I have 10s of Jewish friends that are like this and “worse”.

  33. ThePolemicist
    June 29, 2014, 12:40 am

    Fabulous interview.

  34. John Salisbury
    June 29, 2014, 8:23 am

    Truly remarkable woman.

  35. heb
    June 29, 2014, 9:25 am

    Here is Tzvia in action with Ta’ayush in the South Hebron Hills a few years ago. Settler is trying to prevent Palestinians from having water.
    http://youtu.be/oA2rncp9ElY

    • just
      June 29, 2014, 9:53 am

      Thanks so much for sharing this, heb. She was fearless! Isn’t that her husband with her?

      I need to learn more about Ta’ayush. Remarkable.

      • heb
        June 29, 2014, 10:46 am

        Here is the Ta’ayush website.http://www.taayush.org/

        Look out for David Shulman’s pieces.

        They are remarkable people and it has been a privilege for me to be with them in South Hebron.

      • just
        June 29, 2014, 10:58 am

        Many thanks for all you do, heb! I visited their website after I watched the video, and will definitely be paying more attention to them…

        I really admire the ethos of the organization, part of it here: ” Israelis & Palestinians striving together to end the Israeli occupation and to achieve full civil equality through daily non-violent direct-action. “

      • Citizen
        June 29, 2014, 12:04 pm

        That settler appears to be totally crazed.

  36. bintbiba
    June 29, 2014, 11:30 am

    Thank you , heb . What brave and principled people standing up for what is right.

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